--- Log opened Fri May 28 00:00:05 2010
--- Day changed Fri May 28 2010
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20100528 00:06:51< mordante> I'm off night
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20100528 00:26:48< boucman> hey all
20100528 00:27:34< Espreon> Hello boucman.
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20100528 01:22:08< AI0867> Ivanovic: I see that 4 turkish po files have a $Id$ line in them. Other than those files, the svn:keywords property on every po file is rather unused
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20100528 02:25:27< esr> fendrin: ping!
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20100528 02:47:53< Aizu`> intercepted pong
20100528 02:52:04 * Aethaeryn tackles Aizu` and he fumbles at the 30 yard line.
20100528 02:52:34< Aizu`> Nooooo!
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20100528 04:23:10< Crab_> Upthorn: around ?
20100528 04:25:40< Upthorn> yes.
20100528 04:26:24< Upthorn> Crab_: what's up?
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20100528 04:27:10< Crab_> just wanted to a few questions: how it's going? what do you want to work on in the nearest days? any blocking issues or things that I can help with?
20100528 04:28:57< Upthorn> I haven't put much work time in yet. I was out all day yesterday. For the moment what I want to work on is making the persistence context more useful
20100528 04:29:55< Upthorn> I think it would be good to keep a list of open persist_context's as part of the game resources
20100528 04:31:33< Upthorn> but I think that before I even start on that I should get parent and child relationships working.
20100528 04:31:57< Crab_> ok about parent/child relationships
20100528 04:33:34< Crab_> about 'keeping a list of open persist_contexts' - you already know how this will be useful later (i.e., when implementing for MP), or it's 'just in case' ?
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20100528 04:34:02< Upthorn> It seems like it would be useful for transactions
20100528 04:34:26< Crab_> ok
20100528 04:34:43< Crab_> and, any blocking issues or things that I can help with?
20100528 04:34:49< Upthorn> and also so that the config files don't have to be reloaded every time one variable is read from.
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20100528 04:36:15< Upthorn> I don't see any blocking issues so far, but I will be sure to let you know if I need any help.
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20100528 04:38:01< Crab_> ' and also so that the config files don't have to be reloaded every time one variable is read from' - make sure that this fact is not visible at the API level for the user of persist_context
20100528 04:38:37< Crab_> as the fact that some implementation of persist_context uses a cache is just an implementation detail for it, and shouldn't matter for user
20100528 04:39:28< Crab_> otherwise, it'll be harder to switch to other implementations of persist_context, like those who use DB as a backend
20100528 04:40:53< Upthorn> What I want to do is something like how configs work
20100528 04:41:23< Upthorn> so that the user can do (persistence_resource)[namespace];
20100528 04:42:04< Upthorn> and it will be loaded if necessary
20100528 04:42:24< Crab_> and it will be automatically closed when necessary ?
20100528 04:42:57< Upthorn> Yes, at the very least they will be closed between scenarios.
20100528 04:43:17< Crab_> think about 'persist_context ctx(pcfg["namespace"]);' as a scoped view of the above  (persistence_resource)[namespace]; list
20100528 04:43:34< Crab_> since it will ensure that the context is open in the constructor
20100528 04:43:54< Crab_> and will ensure it gets closed down, if necessary, in the destructor
20100528 04:45:21< Crab_> e.g., you can have an internal  (persistence_resource)[namespace]; list, but it's actually better to access the contexts through a scoped c++ object which 'represents' the resource, initializes it on demand, and tears it down in the destructor
20100528 04:45:33< Upthorn> Right.
20100528 04:46:35< Crab_> and it will tear it down even if exception (like 'Mandatory WML child missing yet untested for. Please report.' one) is thrown
20100528 04:48:04< Upthorn> Okay. I will make sure to do that, and I'll let you know if I have any trouble with it.
20100528 04:49:29< Crab_> ok. In general, feel free to implement it any way you like, just make sure that it is extremely robust - since that code will be used as a foundation for a lot of persistence-related things, and any bugs, no matter how subtle or small, will surface sooner or later.
20100528 04:50:44< Upthorn> I understand.
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20100528 07:49:32< timotei> hey silene
20100528 07:50:59< CIA-86> gabba * r42953 /trunk/src/ (arrow.cpp arrow.hpp display.cpp display.hpp): progress on the arrow framework
20100528 07:51:06< CIA-86> gabba * r42954 /trunk/src/ (arrow.cpp arrow.hpp display.cpp display.hpp): More progress on the arrows framework
20100528 08:01:13< Rhonda> Ivanovic, Soliton: We would need a reboot at some stage for kernel upgrade.
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20100528 08:15:17< silene> timotei: hey
20100528 08:15:24< CIA-86> silene * r42955 /trunk/src/ (display.cpp display.hpp): Uninlined display::fog_image.
20100528 08:15:37< timotei> silene: I have a question. it is possible to put spaces between wml keywords?
20100528 08:15:45< timotei> [scenario] to be: [   scenario  ] ?
20100528 08:26:29< Espreon> Why would one do such an evil thing?
20100528 08:26:50< Espreon> timotei: Explain thyself!
20100528 08:27:32< timotei> Espreon: don't know? Maybe just because it is poßible? (if it is)
20100528 08:27:41< silene> timotei: i think it is, but i haven't verified; just add some random spaces in data/scenario-test.cfg and wesnoth -t
20100528 08:27:55< Espreon> timotei: ... now you're ruining it.
20100528 08:27:55< timotei> ok
20100528 08:28:04< timotei> Espreon: why?:-S
20100528 08:28:57< Espreon> Maybe Ivanovic, or fabi/fendring would care to explain.
20100528 08:29:03< Espreon> *fendrin
20100528 08:31:14< Espreon> You're habits are far worse than my habit of intentionally pronouncing "Hideki" as "hɪdɛki"
20100528 08:31:38< Espreon> "Hideki" as in "Hideki Tōjō"
20100528 08:32:28< timotei> Espreon: well.. it seems þat when I intentionatelly want to pronounce þem lik þat... I can't.
20100528 08:32:41< timotei> Espreon: þat's why I "ruin" it :)
20100528 08:32:47< Espreon> No, not really.
20100528 08:33:11 * Espreon wonders if timotei saw the IPA.
20100528 08:33:18< Espreon> ... characters.
20100528 08:33:37< timotei> Espreon: yeah.. I tried once to write my name in IPA... but failed eventually
20100528 08:33:49< Espreon> ...
20100528 08:33:50< timotei> Espreon: for writing it in my CV
20100528 08:33:53< Espreon> It's not that hard.
20100528 08:34:08< timotei> I didn't like reading all that wikipedia page...
20100528 08:34:13< Espreon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA ... They even have audio... AUDIO!
20100528 08:34:53 * Espreon learned how to make many sounds thanks to that audio.
20100528 08:35:05< timotei> Espreon: that's nice. didn't see that page coming. I surfed over other one
20100528 08:35:07< timotei> Thanks:D
20100528 08:35:09< Espreon> ... and by deciphering the sound articles.
20100528 08:35:10< timotei> that will surely help
20100528 08:35:16< Espreon> You are welcome.
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20100528 10:14:13< Ivanovic> moin
20100528 10:14:21< timotei> hello
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20100528 10:36:58< timotei> zookeeper: hey
20100528 10:38:45< timotei> I'm playing the AOI campaign, and in scenario nr 3 (Wasteland) I got this: Invalid WML found: Usage of 'random' is deprecated, use 'rand' instead, support will be removed in 1.9.2.
20100528 10:38:49< timotei> zookeeper: ^^
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20100528 11:23:12< zookeeper> timotei, ok, i'll fix that
20100528 11:23:32< timotei> zookeeper: thanks
20100528 11:29:32< zookeeper> timotei, hmh...i thought the plan was to actually deprecate rand.
20100528 11:29:57< timotei> zookeeper: well, don't really know what should happen. I just saw the "erorr"
20100528 11:30:23< timotei> zookeeper: aka, just reporting:P
20100528 11:31:02< zookeeper> i mean, there's no sense to have two random functions and since we're removing one of them, it seems silly to have the remaining one be named "rand" instead of "random".
20100528 11:31:23< zookeeper> oh well, i'll convert those anyway, it can be converted back with wmllint sometime if needs be.
20100528 11:36:27< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42957 /branches/1.8/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth/pl.po): updated Polish translation
20100528 11:36:29< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42956 /trunk/po/ (26 files in 26 dirs): updated Polish translation
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20100528 11:38:01< timotei> zookeeper: you're right. the new one should be "random" instead of rand. maybe there is a typo in the source code
20100528 11:38:03< timotei> :-??
20100528 11:39:08< zookeeper> nope
20100528 11:39:15< zookeeper> at least i doubt that
20100528 11:39:25< zookeeper> random is the old non-MP-safe RNG
20100528 11:40:14< zookeeper> i'm just saying that IMO we should keep supporting both and then sometime in the future we can deprecate rand
20100528 11:40:33< zookeeper> obviously supporting both means that they work exactly the same
20100528 11:42:40< timotei> ye
20100528 11:44:15< CIA-86> zookeeper * r42958 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (19 files in 12 dirs): Converted remaining occurrences of random= to rand= in mainline campaigns.
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20100528 12:21:42< CIA-86> timotei * r42959 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/utils/WorkspaceUtils.java: eclipse plugin: add auxiliar methods to remove code redundancy
20100528 12:21:52< CIA-86> timotei * r42960 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/ (7 files in 5 dirs): eclipse plugin: add menus for showing wmllint for different file types
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20100528 14:26:00< AI0867> silene: I ran into the spaces-in-tags thing when using wmlvalidator: the wesnoth parser considers [ /foo] a valid closing tag for [foo], while wmlparser (the original one) used to consider it a valid tag with name " /foo" (now it complains loudly before terminating)
20100528 14:27:11< AI0867> zookeeper: the reason for this change is that random isn't MP safe either, it is, in fact, worse than rand (tested during FOSDEM)
20100528 14:32:27< lfernando> hi
20100528 14:32:52< lfernando> I was playing a SP scenario yesterday
20100528 14:33:16< lfernando> and I think there was a bug with zone of control
20100528 14:33:31< lfernando> on build 42883
20100528 14:33:37< Soliton> not surprising considering that rand was implemented as an MP safe alternative.
20100528 14:35:52< lfernando> will post it with a save game on bug reports
20100528 14:36:47-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 14:36:49< Soliton> you could describe it a little first. seems quite likely a misunderstanding to me.
20100528 14:37:13< lfernando> sure
20100528 14:37:31< lfernando> it happened on scenario 2 of legend of wesmere
20100528 14:37:35< AI0867> Soliton: the interesting part was that random had *more* code, which did stuff with replays
20100528 14:37:58< AI0867> rand was a cleaner version of that when I got rid of the random implementation
20100528 14:39:45< lfernando> there were two elven level 1 units and a empty spot between them
20100528 14:40:10< lfernando> like this: OxO
20100528 14:40:21< lfernando> ( O= unit, x = empty spot )
20100528 14:40:59< lfernando> a level 2 troll enters the empty spot and moves past the units
20100528 14:41:16< AI0867> was it a straight line or a 'corner'?
20100528 14:41:30< lfernando> a straight line, I guess
20100528 14:41:47< AI0867> you don't happen to have a replay lying around, do you?
20100528 14:41:57< lfernando> I have a save game and a replay
20100528 14:42:17< lfernando> I'll post it so you can take a better look
20100528 14:42:44< AI0867> can't do that here and now, but I'll take a look at it when I can
20100528 14:43:16< lfernando> sure
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20100528 15:05:20< lfernando> soliton, AI0867: ok, it is posted
20100528 15:09:28< Crab_> lfernando: funny bug
20100528 15:11:00< lfernando> Crab_: yes it is =/
20100528 15:12:51< Crab_> lfernando: for whatever reason, your elves have zoc=0 in their configs
20100528 15:13:02< Crab_> you can check it with :inspect
20100528 15:14:51< Crab_> lfernando: can you check something ?
20100528 15:15:01-!- timotei [~timo@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 15:15:01< Crab_> lfernando: load the save, recruit a unit
20100528 15:15:10< Crab_> lfernando: hit ':inspect', go to 'units'
20100528 15:15:24< Crab_> find that newly recruited unit (it'll be last), and say if it's zoc=0 or zoc=1
20100528 15:16:17< lfernando> ok
20100528 15:16:23< lfernando> I should type that on the chat?
20100528 15:16:25< Crab_> yes
20100528 15:16:34< lfernando> ok, let me try it
20100528 15:16:39< Crab_> it's "zoc=1" for me, and I want to check if it's the same for your version of wesnoth
20100528 15:16:52< Soliton> no, : opens a command line.
20100528 15:17:24< Crab_> Soliton: (I misunderstood the question, then)
20100528 15:17:26< Soliton> you might have to be in debug mode also.
20100528 15:17:40< Crab_> lfernando: yes, like Soliton says
20100528 15:17:51< lfernando> ok, ty soliton
20100528 15:18:37< Crab_> lfernando: after trying, save the game into a new slot then load it, and check again.
20100528 15:34:51< lfernando> zoc = 0 still
20100528 15:35:31< lfernando> on the scenario that follows I have a few save games from yesterday
20100528 15:35:41< lfernando> and the units have zoc=0 too
20100528 15:37:01< lfernando> and then I created a new campaign (Delfador's Memoirs) 
20100528 15:37:48< lfernando> the game crashed when I tried to inspect the units
20100528 15:38:55< lfernando> I'll try to update the svn version and recompile
20100528 15:39:04< lfernando> and see if it still happens
20100528 15:39:54< Crab_> I have zoc = 1 with r42759
20100528 15:40:06< Crab_> so, something might be broken. it might be fixed already, too
20100528 15:40:39< Crab_> I suspect an issue in boolean -  to - config serialization for zoc attribute
20100528 15:42:21< lfernando> the weird thing is that we're seeing the same save game
20100528 15:42:29< Crab_> that's ok
20100528 15:42:34< Crab_> the save is broken already
20100528 15:42:44< lfernando> and the config loads in a different way
20100528 15:42:55< Crab_> what matter is that new unit for you has 'zoc=0', and for me, 'zoc=1'
20100528 15:43:13-!- FAAB [~huajie@219.142.253.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100528 15:46:44< lfernando> anyway, I'm recompiling it for 42960
20100528 15:47:27< lfernando> let's see if the bug still hangs after that
20100528 15:47:36< Crab_> yes, a good idea
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20100528 16:06:58< timotei> hey Crab_ ;)
20100528 16:07:04< Crab_> hi, timotei
20100528 16:08:16< timotei> I think today I'll "release" the alpha version of the plugin
20100528 16:08:26< timotei> but first need to write the documentation as fendrin wishes:)
20100528 16:08:43< fendrin> timotei: ja!
20100528 16:09:03< timotei> fendrin: but still the only missing feature from the list is the .. start scenario thingy
20100528 16:09:08< timotei> I need to finish it
20100528 16:09:11< Crab_> timotei: oh, release .. that's good :)
20100528 16:09:28< fendrin> having a documentation is important so you can yell at the noobs: rtfm!
20100528 16:09:33< timotei> :))
20100528 16:09:42< timotei> the plugin looks so cute with some images on it :X
20100528 16:09:45< timotei> I simply love it
20100528 16:11:55< fendrin> :-)
20100528 16:12:25< timotei> btw fendrin, Ivanovic *gave* me space on the svn to host the plugin ;))
20100528 16:16:09< fendrin> http://xkcd.com/724/
20100528 16:17:36< timotei> fendrin: do you know the god tetris video?:P
20100528 16:17:53< fendrin> timotei: no, 
20100528 16:17:59< fendrin> I don't think so.
20100528 16:18:02< timotei> you should :P
20100528 16:18:05< timotei> one sec
20100528 16:18:29< timotei> since we were "talking" about tetris (hell) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alw5hs0chj0
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20100528 16:19:24< fendrin> timotei: can't watch it. Need to be 18+
20100528 16:19:32< timotei> fendrin: lol?
20100528 16:19:42< fendrin> To view this video please verify you are 18 or older by signing in or signing up.
20100528 16:19:42< timotei> no you don't
20100528 16:19:51< fendrin> The video you have requested has not had a rating provided by the content owner and may not be appropriate for younger audiences.
20100528 16:20:19< fendrin> And I don't want to sign into another google thing.
20100528 16:21:01< lfernando> Crab_: the bug is up on 42960
20100528 16:21:12< lfernando> when I tried to do that test you asked me
20100528 16:21:23< lfernando> that is, recruiting a new unit on that save game
20100528 16:21:28< lfernando> and inspecting it
20100528 16:21:35< Crab_> lfernando: up means 'bug is present, new unit has zoc=0' ?
20100528 16:21:35< lfernando> the game crashes
20100528 16:21:37< timotei> damn it . that doesn't contain anything 18+
20100528 16:21:46< lfernando> wesnoth-debug: src/gui/widgets/grid.cpp:540: virtual void gui2::tgrid::place(const gui2::tpoint&, const gui2::tpoint&): Assertion `false' failed.
20100528 16:21:55< Crab_> lfernando: the crash is from a well-known gui2 bug
20100528 16:22:02< Crab_> lfernando: it's unrelated...
20100528 16:22:13< lfernando> yes, I'm using 1.2.14
20100528 16:22:21< Crab_> gui2, not sdl
20100528 16:22:31< lfernando> oh
20100528 16:22:42< timotei> fendrin: ok,http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1924722
20100528 16:23:02< lfernando> so, is there a way to bypass this gui issue
20100528 16:23:32< lfernando> to see if there is a real game logic bug?
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20100528 16:25:14< fendrin> lol
20100528 16:25:36< lfernando> Crab_: I'll try to check it out on gdb
20100528 16:26:12< lfernando> and by the way
20100528 16:26:18< lfernando> unrelated to this save
20100528 16:26:32< lfernando> I did the delfador's mems test again
20100528 16:26:39< Crab_> lfernando: use lua
20100528 16:26:47< Crab_> something like          :lua local u = wesnoth.get_units({x="21",y="7"})[1];   wesnoth.message(tostring(u.__cfg.zoc))
20100528 16:26:55< Crab_> where x and y are unit's coordinates
20100528 16:27:20< lfernando> ok, ty Crab_
20100528 16:27:48< lfernando> *back to that point* If I create a new campaign(delfador's memoirs)
20100528 16:28:09< lfernando> when I inspect the three units on the first scenario
20100528 16:28:16< lfernando> Delfador has Zoc=0
20100528 16:29:10< Crab_> ok, cool, so it's broken in a simple way
20100528 16:29:43< Crab_> lfernando: what if you do :unit advances=1 while your cursor is on Delfador ?
20100528 16:29:53< Crab_> he'll advance 1 level. will his zoc stay at 0 ?
20100528 16:31:10< timotei> I miss C# delegates :(
20100528 16:31:18< timotei> or even C++ function pointers
20100528 16:31:35< Crab_> timotei: why do you need them ?
20100528 16:32:47< timotei> Crab_: well I've remembered when tried to read the output from a file, and needed to spawn 2 threads. In C# there was a delegate to a function that was called automatically when data arrived:D
20100528 16:33:15< lfernando> Crab_: insteresting, his ZoC is correctly updated
20100528 16:33:25< lfernando> zoc=1 for him now
20100528 16:33:38< Crab_> lfernando: yes, interesting
20100528 16:34:16< Crab_> timotei: well, the same could be achieved by feeding the line to a object implementing an interface which has 'void workWithLine(String line)'
20100528 16:35:14< Crab_> lfernando: great
20100528 16:36:16< Crab_> lfernando: you have a debug build ?
20100528 16:36:38< lfernando> Crab_: yes
20100528 16:37:13< lfernando> btw, the level 3 mage of light that comes with him in the beginning of the scenario has zoc = 0
20100528 16:37:30< lfernando> maybe the bug affects recruits and recalls?
20100528 16:37:32< Crab_> so it seems that different constructors of class unit are used
20100528 16:37:42-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 16:39:30< Crab_> lfernando: unit has emit_zoc_ field, which should be set to 1 if that unit has zoc (if it's unit type has zoc)
20100528 16:47:52-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.2 planned on 31st May, stringfreeze for branches/1.8! | 113 bugs, 281 feature requests, 17 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100528 16:48:17< lfernando> so, the last test I've done is:
20100528 16:48:34< lfernando> 1- Load a game with a lvl 2 unit in it 
20100528 16:48:34< Crab_> lfernando: if debugging is slow, you can just add debug output in each and every place where emit_zoc_ is initialized or changed.
20100528 16:48:57< lfernando> (it had zoc=0)
20100528 16:49:01< Crab_> like 'creating unit FOO using ctor #1, zoc initially set to 0'
20100528 16:49:17< lfernando> Crab_: ok
20100528 16:49:17< Crab_> or 'creating unit FOO using ctor #1, zoc set to 1 in place #22'
20100528 16:49:42< timotei> Crab_, fendrin: should I "trust" users that they will write [campaign] and [scenario] instead of different combinations with spaces like: [  campaign] [scenario  ] [  campaign ] ?
20100528 16:49:54< Crab_> that way, after a single recompile, you will know everything, and the only thing left would be to sit and meditate a bit, looking at the log
20100528 16:50:43< lfernando> Which class/file has the unit information I see on debug?
20100528 16:50:47< lfernando> unit map?
20100528 16:51:11< Crab_> yes
20100528 16:51:24< Crab_> but we want to track unit construction, which is in unit.cpp
20100528 16:51:51< Crab_> timotei: you ask about WML tags ?
20100528 16:52:06< timotei> Crab_: yes. I need to make a little parser to get scenario/campaign IDS/define
20100528 16:52:20< Crab_> timotei: well, writing them with spaces is ugly, so I'd not support that
20100528 16:52:31< lfernando> Crab_: when an unit advances, it is "reconstructed"?
20100528 16:52:37< timotei> and need to know how to handle the parsing. should just searching for [campaign] or make a "better" user-proof parser
20100528 16:52:52< timotei> fendrin: what about you?
20100528 16:52:53< Crab_> lfernando: no, it's modified. see unit::advance_to
20100528 16:53:14< Crab_> lfernando: and it has emit_zoc_ = t->has_zoc(); line
20100528 16:54:32< Crab_> lfernando: I personally wonder about lines 333 in unit.cpp
20100528 16:55:06< Crab_> lfernando: but, it's better to add debug output everywhere (it's very quick, and it'll work ok)
20100528 16:59:09< lfernando> ok, will take a look at this bug
20100528 17:00:52< timotei> mhh. something is "wrong"?
20100528 17:01:12< Crab_> timotei: where?
20100528 17:02:14< Soliton> http://yourpaste.net/5559  campaignd hang
20100528 17:02:44< timotei> here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/BuildingCampaignsTheCampaignFile
20100528 17:02:49< Soliton> short of fixing the accumulating ghost connections it'd be nice if that was a crash instead of a hang.
20100528 17:03:08< timotei> it tells the "id" is optional... how we indetify then the campaign?
20100528 17:03:10< timotei> by the define?
20100528 17:03:41< Soliton> by the id.
20100528 17:04:00< timotei> but if it isn't "necesarry" how do we?
20100528 17:04:04< timotei> [In earlier version, there was also id which was a unique identifier used for translation, but now has no effect.] 
20100528 17:04:05< Soliton> i'm pretty sure it's already mandatory for about stuff.
20100528 17:04:23< Crab_> timotei: what about using the 'define=' ?
20100528 17:05:20< timotei> Crab_: for me is ok either way... but just wanted to know "who's" right
20100528 17:05:24< Soliton> who added that note?
20100528 17:06:26< timotei> don't know
20100528 17:07:37< Soliton> well, if you want to make sure check whether the id isn't already mandatory for campaign specific about stuff.
20100528 17:07:43< Crab_> Soliton: it was from the start, from  14:54, 9 July 2005 
20100528 17:08:14< Soliton> yeah, must have been a very early version.
20100528 17:08:26< timotei> also, on the page, the define= is not between " "
20100528 17:08:36< timotei> but in campaigns like AOI, it has
20100528 17:08:40< timotei> what's the right way?:D
20100528 17:09:01< zookeeper> AI0867, i know random wasn't MP-safe, but i don't see why we wouldn't want to keep random and make it work like rand.
20100528 17:09:05< Soliton> both
20100528 17:09:10< timotei> ok 
20100528 17:09:12< timotei> thanks
20100528 17:09:37< zookeeper> in retrospect it would have been nice if random had been simply fixed originally instead of introducing another key :P
20100528 17:09:54< Crab_> zookeeper: maybe, there is sometimes need for non mpsafe random
20100528 17:09:56< Soliton> surely there was a reason why that was not possible.
20100528 17:10:28< Crab_> e.g., when we want to do something without getting the random from the mp server, something which doesn't affect the game state by itself
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20100528 17:18:17< Ivanovic> zookeeper: https://gna.org/patch/?1669
20100528 17:19:33< zookeeper> Crab_, right, in that case random shouldn't be deprecated though :P
20100528 17:21:48< timotei> so... to sum it up the id is *required*
20100528 17:22:01< timotei> the --campaign command works with id
20100528 17:28:55< Soliton> please fix the wiki.
20100528 17:30:27< timotei> ok
20100528 17:33:04< CIA-86> elias * r42961 /trunk/data/tools/wesnoth/ (wmldata.py wmlparser.py wmlparser2.py): [python wml parser]added faster tag lookup
20100528 17:33:13-!- elias [~elias@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 17:34:42< CIA-86> elias * r42962 /trunk/data/tools/wesnoth/blacklist.py: Added a Python script which removes all add-ons with preprocessor errors.
20100528 17:38:19-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 17:40:00< CIA-86> elias * r42963 /trunk/data/tools/ (unit_tree/animations.py unit_tree/helpers.py wmlunits): [wmlunits] Updated wmlunits to use the new --preprocess parser. Now all add-ons which can be played with wesnoth can be parsed by wmlunits (only those).
20100528 17:41:39< fendrin> timotei: about me?
20100528 17:42:19< timotei> fendrin: Crab_, fendrin: should I "trust" users that they will write [campaign] and [scenario] instead of different combinations with spaces like: [  campaign] [scenario  ] [  campaign ] ?
20100528 17:42:38< silene> Crab_, lfernabdo: the breakage is related to my latest change; someone thought it would be a good idea to store emit_zoc_ as an integer (???); as a consequence, the zoc value confuses unit reloading because the engine expects a boolean
20100528 17:43:53< zookeeper> timotei, i don't see any reason to support extra spaces there
20100528 17:44:10< silene> zookeeper: there is a reason, the engine supports it
20100528 17:44:12< zookeeper> and frankly i don't think i've ever seen anyone do that either
20100528 17:44:16< timotei> ok
20100528 17:44:38< silene> (now you could argue it is not a sufficient reason, which i would agree with)
20100528 17:45:23< zookeeper> silene, i guess i could also argue that only sufficient reasons are really reasons ;)
20100528 17:45:42< Crab_> silene: ok, good
20100528 17:51:15< fendrin> timotei: either it will get removed from the engine or you should at least be able to support it when importing a campaign and when a user inserts it per hand.
20100528 17:51:33< fendrin> timotei: nevertheless, the eclipse format source menu option will remove them.
20100528 17:51:41< timotei> ok
20100528 17:52:03< fendrin> timotei: I guess the best thing is to let wmlident to that dirty work.
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20100528 17:52:16< fendrin> s/to/do
20100528 17:53:19< timotei> right :)
20100528 18:00:08< elias> Soliton: wmlunits in trunk is much nicer now, it uses --preprocess for WML preprocessing and gettext for translations, instead of the python hacks used for those things before :)
20100528 18:00:42< elias> Soliton: but it makes no sense backporting to 1.8 I guess... so the website will have to use the old one for a while
20100528 18:02:11< fendrin> esr: Are wml* able to handle wml snippets? Like a contextless [event]?
20100528 18:02:40< timotei> stringfreeze is for translation?
20100528 18:03:01< fendrin> timotei: we have a feature and a string freeze
20100528 18:03:12-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100528 18:03:13< fendrin> The later takes place before the feature freeze
20100528 18:03:22< timotei> oh
20100528 18:03:53< fendrin> timotei: And right, the string freeze is to give translaters time before the release to do their homework.
20100528 18:04:14< timotei> heh. nice:)
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20100528 18:17:51< Soliton> elias:   File "data/tools/wmlunits", line 57
20100528 18:17:51< Soliton>     except UnicodeDecodeError as e:
20100528 18:18:27< elias> Soliton: what is the error?
20100528 18:18:48< Soliton> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
20100528 18:18:53< elias> ah
20100528 18:18:57< elias> it won't work with pyhton 2.5
20100528 18:18:59< elias> hm
20100528 18:19:49< esr> fendrin: Yes.
20100528 18:20:25< esr> fendrin: Note, I have storyboarded scenarios 7-10 of Wings of Victory. 
20100528 18:20:43< Soliton> elias: if there is a reasonable way to upgrade python on dfebian stable we can do that, too.
20100528 18:21:27< Soliton> maybe there's a backport.
20100528 18:22:23< Soliton> doesn't look like it though.
20100528 18:22:36< fendrin> timotei: esr's answer means you can also support to ident only parts of the file. Like the eclipse context menu option does.
20100528 18:22:46< fendrin> esr: Cool, I will have a look at it soon.
20100528 18:23:25< timotei> well.. let me check your question
20100528 18:24:46-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100528 18:25:03< fendrin> hi boucman
20100528 18:25:07-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20100528 18:25:18-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 18:25:23< boucman> hey all
20100528 18:27:46< elias> Soliton: i'll can try and make it work on 2.5... but it's not that useful right now anyway
20100528 18:28:02< elias> since trunk wesnoth won't play most 1.8 add-ons
20100528 18:33:03-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 18:36:45< CIA-86> silene * r42964 /trunk/src/ (unit.cpp unit.hpp): Fixed unit zoc not being stored as a boolean. Added a nonintrusive workaround for reloading earlier 1.9 savefiles.
20100528 18:49:00-!- phlaem [~a@e178103197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100528 19:06:36< CIA-86> timotei * r42965 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/ (4 files in 3 dirs): eclipse plugin: move the WMLTools.java file to a better place
20100528 19:06:37< timotei> fendrin: at last. finished opening the scenario in-game :D Now starting to write the documentation
20100528 19:06:42< CIA-86> timotei * r42966 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/ (3 files in 2 dirs): eclipse plugin: new campaign wizard should have an ID
20100528 19:06:50< CIA-86> timotei * r42967 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/utils/ProjectUtils.java: eclipse plugin: implement starting the scenario in game
20100528 19:06:58< CIA-86> timotei * r42968 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/ (3 files in 2 dirs): eclipse plugin: implementing open scenario in game
20100528 19:07:10< timotei> fendrin: should I... write a documentation for entire plugin for developers or users?
20100528 19:07:33< timotei> fendrin: that is, how to setup the environment for building and using the plugin? or just installing it and using
20100528 19:10:49< fendrin> timotei: the more the better :-)
20100528 19:11:24< fendrin> timotei: We want to recruit inocent users to test it out. Those are the best testers.
20100528 19:11:35< timotei> fendrin: oh :))
20100528 19:11:45< timotei> fendrin: cause, the developer section is already made on the wiki
20100528 19:12:23< CIA-86> timotei * r42969 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/changelog: eclipse plugin: updated changelog
20100528 19:13:55< timotei> anyways, I'll try to make a good documentation
20100528 19:14:06< fendrin> timotei: good boy ;-)
20100528 19:14:44-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100528 19:15:04< timotei> fendrin: plain text is OK?
20100528 19:15:19< timotei> fendrin: or it has to be a powerpoint slideshow? or a document?
20100528 19:15:24< timotei> fendrin: maybe latex?
20100528 19:15:46< fendrin> timotei: Latex is very sexy. And it can be used to compile webpages as well.
20100528 19:15:58< timotei> fendrin: good. I'll learn some latex then :D
20100528 19:16:22< timotei> lol, kile dissapeared
20100528 19:16:24< fendrin> timotei: I can recommend a frontend that allows to manipulate the pure source as well.
20100528 19:16:44< timotei> I was using kile some days ago, but now it's gone?
20100528 19:16:54< timotei> fendrin: what you recommend me?
20100528 19:16:57< fendrin> timotei: lyx
20100528 19:17:16-!- Gallaecio [~Gallaecio@232.158.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100528 19:17:18< timotei> good, found it in sabayon's repo
20100528 19:17:52< fendrin> timotei: It's nice to see you enjoying the work.
20100528 19:18:14< timotei> fendrin: well, I like it when need to learn many different things :D
20100528 19:18:26< timotei> fendrin: and since started on gsoc, a lot I learned :))
20100528 19:18:39< timotei> fendrin: including migrating (hope for a long time) on linux
20100528 19:18:56< timotei> fendrin: btw, starting tomorrow I won't be online for aprox 3 weeks
20100528 19:19:04< timotei> I'll try anyways to enter between
20100528 19:19:04< fendrin> timotei: Are you able to write with all 10 fingers without looking at the keyboard?
20100528 19:19:10< timotei> fendrin: yes
20100528 19:19:22< fendrin> Okay, if not I would have recommended ktouch.
20100528 19:19:32< fendrin> ktouch was just great to learn that.
20100528 19:19:44< fendrin> Used it for about a week a quarter an hour a day.
20100528 19:19:58< fendrin> At the end of the week I was able to hit 300 keys per minute.
20100528 19:20:20-!- silene [~plouf@bau91-1-82-239-244-109.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 19:20:21< timotei> fendrin: nice :D
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20100528 19:20:41< fendrin> hi silene
20100528 19:21:17< timotei> so: I will enter for 3 days between 11-13, cause I have a programming exam after that, so I can be on IRC if any problems
20100528 19:22:04< billynux> just joining the conversation here, timotei: I'm used to using latex and I can provide you with many examples. I edit it in kile or emacs
20100528 19:22:06< fendrin> timotei: Okay, that should be enough. Don't neglect your exams.
20100528 19:22:37< timotei> fendrin: yes. I need to get the mark 8, so I can receive the ... scholarship for next year
20100528 19:22:45< timotei> hi billynux
20100528 19:22:57< timotei> billynux: sorry, but no emacs (yet) for me :P
20100528 19:23:09< billynux> hi -> I always forget about that part of the protocol
20100528 19:23:25< silene> fendrin: hi
20100528 19:23:34< timotei> billynux: np :P
20100528 19:23:39< billynux> timotei: I know... the learning curve for Emacs is pretty steep (but... the view from above is great -> said once an experienced user)
20100528 19:23:57< timotei> billynux: that's like the learning curve for popular MMORPG
20100528 19:24:21< fendrin> timotei: emacs is fine. There is also a nice wml mode for emacs around. That is the preferred way to write wml unless the eclipse plugin is ready.
20100528 19:24:30< billynux> I guess so, I always avoided MMORPG due to my game addiction tendencies :P
20100528 19:24:38< timotei> billynux: this one: http://www.mmocrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/learningcurve.jpg
20100528 19:24:59< billynux> :D
20100528 19:25:01< timotei> and that image is VERY true:P
20100528 19:25:21< timotei> fendrin: ok, installed lyx. basically it's a custom format that can be saved in different other?
20100528 19:26:10< billynux> that's funny. I was at a friends house the other day while *he* played eve... It looked nice, and he's got some sort of high rank now :P
20100528 19:26:16< timotei> oh no... found the source
20100528 19:26:29< fendrin> timotei: It uses latex directly.
20100528 19:26:30< billynux> timotei: I would recommend against lyx, unless you have NO programming background
20100528 19:26:52< timotei> fendrin: oh, so... it's a WWSYIG?
20100528 19:26:53< billynux> latex doesn't have a steep learning curve (for simple documents)
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20100528 19:27:24< billynux> lyx is wysiwyg, yes... but a bit unflexible
20100528 19:27:34< fendrin> timotei: Not exactly. It tries to display some of the seen result but by far not the final document.
20100528 19:28:10< fendrin> timotei: Just load an example and compare what you see and what the compiled pdf looks like.
20100528 19:28:26< fendrin> billynux: It is very flexible since it allows you to edit the latex source directly.
20100528 19:28:37< billynux> true...
20100528 19:28:44< timotei> fendrin: sorry, but I don't really enjoy WWSIYG for now :D
20100528 19:28:53< billynux> timotei: check http://code.google.com/p/async-net-api/source/browse/trunk/doc/description.tex?spec=svn40&r=40 if you want (for reference on simple things)
20100528 19:29:10-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 19:29:26 * billynux thinks googlecode should highlight latex code :(
20100528 19:29:51< timotei> I know the basics of latex, did once a documentation document:D
20100528 19:29:56< timotei> but thanks anyway
20100528 19:30:09< fendrin> timotei: WWSIYG?
20100528 19:30:24< timotei> sorry: WYSIWYG :)
20100528 19:30:29< billynux> :)
20100528 19:30:52< fendrin> timotei: Well, it is not wysiwyg.
20100528 19:31:00< fendrin> damn it.
20100528 19:31:04< fendrin> wysiwyg
20100528 19:31:11-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 19:31:15< fendrin> hi noy
20100528 19:31:24< noy> hello
20100528 19:35:28< billynux> fendrin, noy ,  Ivanovic : you guys know when is mordante usually around? (most days he logs on 0.5 hours from now)
20100528 19:35:53< noy> he might be on 0.5 hours from now
20100528 19:36:50< billynux> yes, my question was directed towards: "do you know about any other time range he is usually logged?"
20100528 19:37:15< noy> later on in the day he might be
20100528 19:37:23< billynux> ok
20100528 19:37:29< noy> I think he's on for about five hour stretch or so?
20100528 19:39:08-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100528 19:40:40< billynux> I'll reconnect in 20'
20100528 19:40:42-!- billynux [~c8078d05@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20100528 19:44:08-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 19:44:14< gabba> bonjour
20100528 19:44:26< boucman> salut
20100528 19:44:31< boucman> je viens de relire ton code...
20100528 19:44:35< gabba> salut boucman
20100528 19:45:36< gabba> so is my code 1) horrible or 2) atrocious :P ?
20100528 19:46:12< boucman> well, it's not how I would have done it, but it's more a question of taste and design choice than how it's actually done...
20100528 19:47:01< boucman> you keep in the display object a map from location to surfaces, and you use the arrow object to update that map on arrow change...
20100528 19:47:32< boucman> I tend to do "smart, well encapsulated" objects rather than "structures in class" objects
20100528 19:47:47< gabba> indeed, indeed
20100528 19:48:57< boucman> since display already export everything for external objects to be able to draw themselves (that's the way units do it)
20100528 19:49:07< boucman> I would have pushed as much code as possible in arrow
20100528 19:50:39< gabba> units are different in that they're (mostly) localized in one hex, though
20100528 19:51:21-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 19:52:08< boucman> no, they are not... codewise 60% of difficulty in the unit drawing code is about the not in hex case
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20100528 19:52:34< boucman> from that regard, arrows are much more "in a hex" since each element always fit in a hex (no invalidation propagation)
20100528 19:52:44< gabba> arrows drawing themselves would have meant doing this in every frame: foreach hex -> foreach arrow -> foreach hex in arrow, if hex is the same as aforementioned hex, draw symbol
20100528 19:53:41< boucman> well, you would have a hex->image map in the arrows, so that would not be a foreach
20100528 19:54:05< boucman> we don't do foreach hex, but foreach invalidated hex (which is much less hex)
20100528 19:54:30< boucman> and foreach arrow is not that huge... it would be cool to have a hex=>arrow map in display,
20100528 19:55:35< boucman> gabba: yes, actually, having display keep a map hex=>arrow (maintained in the way you currently maintain your map) and having arrows draw themselves would probably be better
20100528 19:55:45< boucman> it would offer us much more possibilitied in the future...
20100528 19:56:22< gabba> so a hex=>arrow map in display and a hex=>symbol map in each arrow... that would work
20100528 19:57:02< gabba> boucman: but it's a bit late to disagree, don't you think, especially after seeing the UML diagram for this and saying "go ahead"
20100528 19:57:13< boucman> yes, and that's not a big change... after that if you have time now, we can try to do the drawing code now
20100528 19:57:45< boucman> gabba: no, I don't think so, we are not late, we are very early. Testing stuff and seeing how they turn out
20100528 19:58:08< gabba> anyways since it's not huge I don't mind changing it... just try to disagree earlier next time ;)
20100528 19:58:51< boucman> gabba: i'll do my best, but people usually understand stuff when they see it, and UML is (suprisingly enough) not as explicit as code...
20100528 19:59:09< gabba> fair enough
20100528 19:59:39-!- 31NAAV0P3 [~quassel@ip70-177-181-137.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 20:00:44< boucman> gabba: and i'm here to teach you about software development, and changing your plan mid-implementation is (again, suprisingly enough) a good habit to take
20100528 20:00:59< boucman> writing code is cheap, experimenting is where you learn
20100528 20:02:59< gabba> oh, I've done it enough (changing plans), but I find refactoring especially painful in c++, so I try to avoid it when possible
20100528 20:03:15< boucman> yes, I understand that...
20100528 20:04:57< gabba> anyways I appreciate learning, my experience is still very limited and all that, so I appreciate your teaching
20100528 20:05:46< boucman> i'll do my best :)
20100528 20:06:37< boucman> as a rule of thumb, encapsulation is probably the most important thing to think of, trying to have objects "logically coherent", being paranoïd with users of your objects etc...
20100528 20:07:00< boucman> esp in languages like C++/Java where the logic tends to push you to allow everything and let the user deal with it
20100528 20:07:35< alink> gabba: btw, i think you asked about typedef before. Then having used typedef is really handy when refactoring is needed
20100528 20:10:28< gabba> boucman: well, in this case I didn't have directly the "draw yourself" approach, but arrows encapsulated the "logical" arrow data, i.e. the path, and calculated which symbols should be drawn, while display held a drawing "buffer" to avoid querying arrows at every frame... I thought that was pretty clever
20100528 20:11:04< boucman> it is
20100528 20:11:08< gabba> alink: they won't help in this case (complete paradigm shift), but yes, I've already introduced a few typedefs
20100528 20:11:53< boucman> it's a separation data/functionality, it's not an object oriented design, but it's not a bad design
20100528 20:11:57< boucman> it's just that
20100528 20:12:07< boucman> 1) I am a maniac of encapsulation :P
20100528 20:12:37< alink> gabba: ok, i was just mentioning that in case your "c++ is painful to refactor" was a case of "not using all (or well) c++ features"
20100528 20:12:54< boucman> 2) my instinct tells me that you will need to have a way for display to find all arrows at some point, and so we might as well introduce this right away and use it to solve our other problem
20100528 20:12:55-!- Gambit1 [~Gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100528 20:15:43< gabba> alink: I'm probably not using c++ at its full potential, but I was comparing with the refactoring possibilities with Eclipse/Netbeans in Java... the power you have there is just staggering
20100528 20:16:09< gabba> boucman: we'll follow your instincts then :)
20100528 20:16:57< alink> gabba: just checked arrow.cpp, that's a small detail but if your drawing structure live more than 1 frame, then I recommend using the more robust image::locator instead of the pointer-like surface
20100528 20:16:58-!- lfernando [~luiz@187.106.48.95] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 20:18:17< alink> I am mainly thinking about what happen when zooming
20100528 20:18:25< gabba> alink: thanks for the tip, I'll see which one is best after the refactoring
20100528 20:19:12-!- billynux [~billy@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 20:22:52< CIA-86> timotei * r42970 /website/eclipse.wesnoth.org/ (8 files in 3 dirs): update 28 may
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20100528 20:23:16< gabba> boucman: do you think drawing order for arrows is important? in the code you saw I went for a "last arrow refreshed is drawn on top" approach
20100528 20:23:23-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 20:24:00< gabba> also general question, which version of boost are we using again?
20100528 20:24:41< boucman> hmm, i'd say yes... order of draing is important, since we will want to have a sort of "last move on top" at some point
20100528 20:25:12< boucman> however, i'd rather have you not focus on that tonight and get the drawing in place so we can have something "to look at" and add that feature later
20100528 20:25:18-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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20100528 20:26:41< alink> and display code has already a layer system handling drawing order, if/when it will be needed
20100528 20:27:59< gabba> alink: true that... reserving a bunch of layers for arrows could be a solution to drawing order
20100528 20:28:39-!- Gambit1 [~Gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 20:29:58< alink> gabba: that what i was thinking, unless you mean very complex order, like many arrows, or allowed to cross themself etc.. 
20100528 20:30:19< alink> but assigning a layer by team is very easy
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20100528 20:32:00< boucman> alink: or the order within order within order of the terrain code ;)
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20100528 20:33:52< alink> boucman: "order" has indeed be a complex meaning :)
20100528 20:36:43-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100528 20:41:34< alink> gabba: at least with your arrow mockup (half-transparent and uniformly colored) the order in the same team seems not important :-)
20100528 20:43:01< alink> these mockup look really nice
20100528 20:44:07< alink> I wonder if you could give a small x/y shift different for each unit to better differentiate them when overlapping
20100528 20:44:51< alink> (looking at the bridge crossing image)
20100528 20:45:26-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 20:45:54< gabba> alink, boucman: what boost version are we using for wesnoth?
20100528 20:45:54< lfernando> silene: All the tests seem to be working fine now, thanks. 
20100528 20:46:42< alink> gabba:  i see a BOOST_REQUIRE([1.35]) in configure.ac
20100528 20:47:10< gabba> alink: thanks, I didn't want to get lost in the build files right now
20100528 20:47:32< alink> gabba: search function is your friend :p
20100528 20:55:06< boucman> sorry , was afk
20100528 21:06:22< timotei> fendrin: how should I upload the documentation?
20100528 21:06:29< timotei> the .tex file or just the resulted .pdf?
20100528 21:06:34< timotei> or both?
20100528 21:07:32< fendrin> timotei: I think the .tex belongs into svn
20100528 21:07:44< fendrin> timotei: In fact, you should develop it in svn.
20100528 21:07:56< timotei> fendrin: btw, would you want to take a look on it before uploading?
20100528 21:08:21< fendrin> timotei: No, just check it in, that is the best way to deliver it to me.
20100528 21:08:45< fendrin> timotei: don't forget to write a makefile that compiles the pdf out of the shit.
20100528 21:08:47< timotei> fendrin: there is a lot faster method too:P
20100528 21:08:53< timotei> oh
20100528 21:08:57< timotei> makefile for latex??
20100528 21:09:10< fendrin> Yes, I have seen that many times before.
20100528 21:09:19< timotei> ok, let me google that
20100528 21:09:29< fendrin> But feel free to find a better solution.
20100528 21:10:04< CIA-86> boucman * r42971 /trunk/data/core/ (6 files in 3 dirs): more terrain renaming/simplification
20100528 21:10:17< CIA-86> alink * r42972 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): update a debug function (unused but handy for debugging)
20100528 21:15:54< Elvish_Pillager> Bob_The_Mighty: want to come to #wesnoth-umc-dev to talk about The High Seas?
20100528 21:16:08< billynux> timotei, latex command generates a .dvi file
20100528 21:16:15< billynux> pdfatex -> .pdf
20100528 21:16:29< billynux> dvi2ps, dvi2pdf, etc...
20100528 21:16:36< timotei> billynux: well, yeah
20100528 21:16:53< timotei> billynux: found a little bit complex makefile for latex... but I think we won't need that big
20100528 21:17:06< billynux> you shouldn't
20100528 21:17:27< billynux> even if it is a large latex decomposed into several .tex files, there is still one root .tex file
20100528 21:18:41< timotei> make, can't take a "makefile" file as argument?
20100528 21:18:46< timotei> make mymakefile
20100528 21:19:11< billynux> timotei,  make -f :P
20100528 21:19:17< timotei> thanks :D
20100528 21:23:09< CIA-86> boucman * r42973 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: small fix to previous commit
20100528 21:23:31< fendrin> timotei: make will look for a file called "Makefile" there is no need to name it different and specify the filename.
20100528 21:23:53< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42974 /trunk/po/ (26 files in 26 dirs): updated French translation
20100528 21:24:22< CIA-86> ivanovic * r42975 /branches/1.8/po/ (5 files in 5 dirs): updated French translation
20100528 21:25:26< fendrin> timotei: If you don't like make, there is maven, ant, scons and many others. I think you may want to use one of them for creating the jars out of your java plugin sources as well.
20100528 21:25:27< timotei> fendrin: you use any "total commander" like apps in KDE?
20100528 21:25:42< fendrin> timotei: I recommend Krusader
20100528 21:26:03< timotei> fendrin: I use that. but it has some "selection" bugs that drives me crazy
20100528 21:26:43< fendrin> timotei: Well, the classic asci art midnight commander is nice as well. Not kde specific.
20100528 21:27:11-!- 31NAAV0P3 [~quassel@ip70-177-181-137.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100528 21:28:10< CIA-86> timotei * r42976 /trunk/utils/java/update_site/index.html: eclipse plugin: update last update date
20100528 21:28:19< CIA-86> timotei * r42977 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/ (Makefile README.tex): eclipse plugin: added reade and makefile to make it
20100528 21:28:33< fendrin> esr: What is meant if someone says the conversation "goes into a script"?
20100528 21:28:35< timotei> fendrin: ok commited the documentation. please take a look over it to tell me if I missed something
20100528 21:30:15< billynux> fendrin: I would assume: 1- What you are talking about should be implemented in a script, or 2- That conversation is redundant (hence it follows a script (e.g. from a movie) 
20100528 21:30:27< billynux> )
20100528 21:32:54< esr> fendrin: Without context, I'm not sure.
20100528 21:38:08< timotei> fendrin: I think I'll go now
20100528 21:38:31< fendrin> timotei: good bye :-)
20100528 21:38:35< timotei> fendrin: if anything important to tell me, please use the e-mail.
20100528 21:38:46< fendrin> timotei: Okay, I will do so.
20100528 21:38:58< timotei> we'll talk on 11.06. I'll miss you guys >:D<
20100528 21:39:27< billynux> see you timotei 
20100528 21:39:27< timotei> btw, I think I'll do one more thing.
20100528 21:39:42< timotei> should I create a forum thread to tell about the plugin? so ppl can post the bugs found?
20100528 21:39:58< timotei> or the plugin isn't anyways mature enough
20100528 21:40:58-!- timotei [~timo@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Quit: See you on 11.06.2010]
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20100528 21:47:02< CIA-86> boucman * r42978 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/ (4 files): generalize the overlay macros, now all combination of _ROTATION_ _RESTRICTED[23]_ exist and work in similar ways
20100528 21:48:17-!- billynux [~billy@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100528 21:50:54< Aethaeryn> damn it, I'm on r42972 and it's broken...
20100528 21:50:58< Aethaeryn> Time to recompile... :S
20100528 21:51:10< gabba> bye timotei. Going on vacations? (or exams :P) ?
20100528 21:51:11< shadowmaster> recompile!
20100528 21:51:34< Aethaeryn> And people wonder why my stuff is still for 1.8 :P
20100528 21:52:11< Blarumyrran> Name those people!
20100528 21:52:26< Aethaeryn> ummm... Them.
20100528 21:53:13< shadowmaster> I don't know anyone named Them.
20100528 21:53:45< alink> Aethaeryn: r42972 is broken ?
20100528 21:53:55< Blarumyrran> "Them" is no country I ever heard of!
20100528 21:54:00< Aethaeryn> alink: yes, some terrain problem... but it is probably fixed
20100528 21:54:01< Aethaeryn> :P
20100528 21:54:30< alink> Aethaeryn: ah ok
20100528 21:54:33< Aethaeryn> damn it, Thunderstone is broken in r42978 :P
20100528 21:54:53< boucman> Aethaeryn: finxed in the next commit
20100528 21:55:00< Aethaeryn> as is AtS
20100528 21:55:12< shadowmaster> I know AtS is broken
20100528 21:55:12< boucman> Aethaeryn: that commit lived for 13', bad luck
20100528 21:55:26< shadowmaster> it's because someone removed the SHEX macro
20100528 21:56:06-!- Gambit [~Gambit@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 21:56:21< boucman> shadowmaster: that would be me.. though I had greped mainline, is it UMC ?
20100528 21:56:38< shadowmaster> of course it is. I don't see any mainline campaign with such initials.
20100528 21:57:02< CIA-86> boucman * r42979 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/ (base.cfg keep.cfg): provide all variations of base macros for keeps
20100528 21:57:10 * boucman has trouble remembering what is mainline and was isn't
20100528 21:57:30< Aethaeryn> IftU *should* be mainline
20100528 21:57:46< Aethaeryn> better than the ones that are basically grandfathered in by being in mainline for a really long time.
20100528 21:57:47< shadowmaster> no
20100528 21:57:54< Aethaeryn> EI for instance, unless it got cleaned up lately.
20100528 21:58:18< Blarumyrran> Aethaeryn, what you mean to say is, NR *shouldn't* be mainline
20100528 21:59:00< shadowmaster> agreed about NR
20100528 21:59:03< Aethaeryn> well, I haven't done campaigns since 1.6
20100528 21:59:11< Aethaeryn> so I can't judge on what got cleaned up
20100528 21:59:16< Aethaeryn> in fact, I played through all of mainline last in 1.3
20100528 21:59:21< shadowmaster> but since it's personal, my argument is invalid
20100528 21:59:23< Aethaeryn> so I would even have missing knowledge to judge 1.6 status
20100528 21:59:37 * Aethaeryn is loving the rails.
20100528 22:00:01< Aethaeryn> could use them in 1.8 :P
20100528 22:01:03 * Aethaeryn likes the terrains...
20100528 22:01:22< Aethaeryn> If I spend too much time playing with them, before you know it I'll wind up with 3 maps that will have to wait a year to see any play...
20100528 22:03:25-!- ancestral_ [~ancestral@mobile-166-137-143-146.mycingular.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100528 22:25:12< fendrin> Do the dwarves have steam machines to use the rails?
20100528 22:25:27< fendrin> Were rails invented before steam machines?
20100528 22:25:58< Ivanovic> fendrin: yes
20100528 22:26:05< Aethaeryn> Carts.
20100528 22:26:11< Ivanovic> rails were used ages ago for mine carts
20100528 22:26:13< Aethaeryn> hand-powered
20100528 22:26:19< Ivanovic> considering that dwarves do have mines...
20100528 22:26:23< Ivanovic> ;)
20100528 22:26:25< Aethaeryn> Big mines.
20100528 22:26:51< fendrin> Would be nice to have carts as well.
20100528 22:26:56< fendrin> I mean unit images.
20100528 22:27:21< gabba> boucman: I'm almost done with refactoring
20100528 22:27:41< boucman> cool
20100528 22:27:55< boucman> i'm almost done documenting my changes to the terrain macros :P
20100528 22:28:10< gabba> documentation is good :D
20100528 22:28:39< gabba> boucman: one problem though: display::drawing_buffer_add is protected, so arrows can't directly add images there
20100528 22:28:53< gabba> boucman: how should they "draw themselves", then?
20100528 22:30:56< CIA-86> gabba * r42980 /trunk/src/ (arrow_observer.hpp display.cpp display.hpp): Arrows: refactoring cleanup, phase 1
20100528 22:31:08< CIA-86> gabba * r42981 /trunk/src/ (arrow.cpp arrow.hpp): Arrows: refactoring cleanup, phase 2
20100528 22:31:09< CIA-86> gabba * r42982 /trunk/src/ (arrow.cpp arrow.hpp display.cpp display.hpp): Arrows: refactoring proper, phase 1
20100528 22:31:14< CIA-86> gabba * r42983 /trunk/src/ (arrow.hpp display.hpp): Arrows: refactoring proper, phase 2
20100528 22:31:21< CIA-86> gabba * r42984 /trunk/src/ (arrow.hpp display.cpp display.hpp): Arrows: refactoring proper, phase 3
20100528 22:31:29< CIA-86> gabba * r42985 /trunk/src/ (arrow.cpp arrow.hpp display.cpp): Arrows: refactoring proper, phase 4
20100528 22:31:35< CIA-86> gabba * r42986 /trunk/src/arrow.cpp: Arrows: removed unused parameter
20100528 22:33:14< boucman> i'd rename display::render_unit_image since that function is not unit specific in any way and could be usefull for other people...
20100528 22:33:57< boucman> it would also allow you to have easy access to transparancy/color tweaking
20100528 22:34:20 * gabba looks at display::render_unit_image
20100528 22:36:00< gabba> boucman: any idea for the new name?
20100528 22:38:08< boucman> render_image ;)
20100528 22:38:30< gabba> ha ha, I was precisely typing that
20100528 22:39:10< boucman> maybe it should be accessible to friends only, since people calling it have to do it from a plug in display::draw which means a high cross dependancy on display, but that's out of the scope of your refactoring
20100528 22:41:59< gabba> kk
20100528 22:44:54< CIA-86> boucman * r42987 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/base.cfg: provide all macro variations for base terrains
20100528 22:47:52-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.2 planned on 31st May, stringfreeze for branches/1.8! | 112 bugs, 281 feature requests, 17 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100528 22:48:52< CIA-86> boucman * r42988 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/village.cfg: provide all macro variations for villages
20100528 22:53:49< boucman> gabba: quick remark, you probably want "arrow_path_t" to be a set instead of a list
20100528 22:54:01< boucman> since we will be searching it on every draw_hex
20100528 22:54:18< boucman> (moreover it will make things simpler with invalidation)
20100528 22:55:05< gabba> boucman: I need each hex of the path to know it's next and previous hex, otherwise I can't determine which symbols to draw
20100528 22:55:17< boucman> hmm
20100528 22:55:20< boucman> that's true too
20100528 22:55:28< boucman> is there an ordered_set ? :P
20100528 22:55:47< gabba> boucman: heh, lemme see what I can do
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20100528 22:58:41< alink> you can specify the order function in std::set. However if the order is not based on location, then the set structure will stop helping you for quickly find if an hex belong to the set, making the set useless
20100528 22:58:57< gabba> boucman: I wasn't thinking of accessing the path_ on every draw, but rather of updating the symbols_map_ every time the path_ (or the color, or...) changes
20100528 22:59:40< boucman> ok... i'll tell you what I had in mind
20100528 22:59:54< boucman> I was thinking of the invalidation problem on arrow change...
20100528 23:00:23< boucman> the display class has bool invalidate(const std::set<map_location>& locs);
20100528 23:00:59< boucman> I was thinking of reusing it, but my guess is you will have to add a (trivial) invalidate_arrow(...) method
20100528 23:01:15< boucman> (on an arrow change, you need to invalidate all hexes from the old an new path)
20100528 23:01:32< boucman> invalidate_arrow_path(arrow_path_t) would make sense
20100528 23:02:36< gabba> Yes, I guess invalidate_arrow_path would be called from update_symbols
20100528 23:03:13< gabba> eventually I can compare the old and new arrows to see which hexes should stay identical
20100528 23:03:59< boucman> gabba: probably not worth it for a single redraw
20100528 23:04:19< boucman> especially since a hex which hasn't changed but whose neighbour have changed could have its image changed
20100528 23:06:17< CIA-86> gabba * r42989 /trunk/src/ (display.cpp display.hpp unit_frame.cpp): Rename display::render_unit_image to display::render_image, changed commentary accordingly.
20100528 23:07:06-!- DesertPanther [~Khalid@unaffiliated/desertpanther] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100528 23:07:25< alink> why not just storing the image needed (depending of orientations) and only check this for drawing and invalidation. And when the path change, just update the image data
20100528 23:08:15< Upth> hey, I have a question about the config class that I'm having trouble finding the answer to in code
20100528 23:08:23< boucman> alink: that's what we do, invalidation only happens on path change
20100528 23:09:14< Upth> is there a simple way to get a list of the names of all of a config's children?
20100528 23:10:17< Upth> or does one of the provided iterators point to a std::pair with the name and the child?
20100528 23:10:22< alink> boucman: ah ok, but should still help to check what does *not* need invalidation. but probably premature optimization
20100528 23:10:49< alink> brb
20100528 23:11:02< boucman> alink: most likely yes, remember that it's only for one redraw and a couple of hex
20100528 23:12:26-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100528 23:12:41< boucman> Upth i don't see anything obvous... there is ordered_begin etc... which allows to iterate over all children, but I'm not sure how to extract the tag name from them
20100528 23:13:31< gabba> boucman: what's the official way of getting a pointer to the display? (from within the arrow class)
20100528 23:14:07< boucman> static game_display* get_singleton() 
20100528 23:14:17< gabba> thx
20100528 23:14:52< gabba> boucman: wait, that's a problem, since arrows are not supposed to depend on game_display
20100528 23:15:05< alink> gabba: check ressources::stuff too
20100528 23:15:28< alink> *resources
20100528 23:15:55< alink> resources::screen in this case, but that works for all the main objects
20100528 23:16:02< boucman> gabba: you'll have to depend on display.... is this to use arrows in the editor ?
20100528 23:16:10< alink> boucman: one redraw of one arrow? or all the arrows?
20100528 23:16:32< Upth> oh looks like all_children_iterator was the key, thanks.
20100528 23:17:03< boucman> the first redraw after the arrow has changed, we need to invalidate some/all hexes from the old arrow path, and some/all hex from the new path
20100528 23:17:11< gabba> boucman: remember our conversation with fendrin? the conclusion that arrow should be at the display level, not game_display. I guess one of the possible uses was for the editor, yes...
20100528 23:17:13< boucman> other redraws don't need any invalidation
20100528 23:17:33< fendrin> gabba: I remember.
20100528 23:17:47< boucman> gabba: ok, makes sense, but there is no access to the singleton at the display level...
20100528 23:17:48< boucman> hmm
20100528 23:17:49< Upth> -> on that goes to a struct with {std::string &key; config &cfg}
20100528 23:17:55< alink> boucman: ok only 1 or 2 arrows then, not much than with the footsteps,  so it's ok
20100528 23:18:53< gabba> boucman, fendrin: how does the editor get a pointer to the display??
20100528 23:20:01< cjhopman_> locking the gpl violation thread sure seems to suggest that we don't want that discussed in public...
20100528 23:20:26< boucman> cjhopman_: we have such a thread ? url plz ?
20100528 23:20:32< fendrin> cjhopman_: I did feel that the looking was strange as well.
20100528 23:21:05< cjhopman_> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30115
20100528 23:21:29< fendrin> gabba: It is in editor_controller.cpp line 146
20100528 23:21:58< fendrin> cjhopman_: s/looking/locking
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20100528 23:22:21< boucman> gabba: in the case of editors, its apparently always passed as a param to the function... you could do it that way if you need it in a limited number of place
20100528 23:22:41< boucman> the caller can call game_display::get_singleton or pass you a display_editor
20100528 23:23:11-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100528 23:23:51< alink> cjhopman_: i don't want to discuss it on this public channel ;-p
20100528 23:24:22< gabba> boucman: ok, I think it would work as a parameter, I probably have to call the display only twice (draw and invalidate)
20100528 23:24:42< gabba> this way the future editor can use arrows, it just has to pass its own display pointer
20100528 23:25:06< boucman> most likely yes, and in the case of draw, you are called from the display in the first place, so it will just have to pass you this
20100528 23:25:15< gabba> sure, that's easy
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20100528 23:26:52< gabba> boucman: not sure if I should pass the display pointer in the constructor or in each draw call, though
20100528 23:27:35< gabba> ie. in the constructor of arrow, or in arrow::draw_hex
20100528 23:27:53< boucman> fendrin: around ?
20100528 23:28:53< boucman> gabba: you can probably keep it, it's a singleton in the case of game_display, and in editor if it's not a singleton, my guess is that there is one per edited map, and an arrow won't change map, so will alway be linked to the same display
20100528 23:29:16< alink> and what's up with arrows in editor ? 
20100528 23:29:22< gabba> ok
20100528 23:29:30< boucman> I think philosophically, an arrow belongs to a display with external users keeping pointers to it, and not the other way round
20100528 23:29:57< gabba> boucman: I think Socrates would have agreed with that
20100528 23:30:02< boucman> alink: we are adding arrows at the display (i.e not game_display) level, so we are considering both use case
20100528 23:30:07< boucman> hehe
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20100528 23:31:11< alink> boucman: ok but why not game_display? Other UI things like footsteps, black stripes etc.. are all in game_display
20100528 23:31:50< CIA-86> boucman * r42990 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/ (buildings.cfg compat.cfg): move more macros to the deprecation file
20100528 23:32:19< boucman> alink: that was a discussion between fendrin and gabba, but there is no reason to restrict it to the game, even if we don't use it for the editor...
20100528 23:32:47< boucman> the arrow drawing (this is only for arrow drawing, not the arrow logic) is in no way game specific
20100528 23:34:03-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20100528 23:34:10< alink> boucman: mmh I could see one, it will bother you each time you need a function present only in game_display
20100528 23:34:33< alink> but my main question is what it the future plan of the editor needing arrows ?
20100528 23:34:44< alink> s/it.is
20100528 23:35:04< alink> s/.//
20100528 23:35:31< boucman> there is no such plan, its just that afaict at this point we don't need anything from game_display, so there is no reason to restrict ourselves to it
20100528 23:37:01< alink> ok, but the next time you hit a small problem like this get_singleton thing, remember that you can move it to game_display ;-)
20100528 23:37:17< boucman> hehe
20100528 23:39:27< alink> one possible annoying thing is that display is not aware of teams, so it doesn't know which team can see what, or who is currently playing etc...
20100528 23:39:44< fendrin> boucman: yes, I am around.
20100528 23:40:16< boucman> fendrin: in the case of the editor, do we have multiple instances of the display class at the same time ,
20100528 23:40:43< boucman> alink: good point, we'll keep it in mind
20100528 23:43:20< esr> I'm off to an SF convention.  Availability intermittent until Monday.
20100528 23:43:24-!- esr [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/esr] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20100528 23:43:34< boucman> have fun
20100528 23:46:12< alink> boucman: now that i think more about it, you can also have a basic arrow support in display, and specialize it in game_display (by using virtual functions like we do for similar stuff there)
20100528 23:47:31< boucman> alink: yes, that too
20100528 23:47:49< gabba> alink: that's more or less what I was planning: a generic arrow class at display level, which I'll subclass for the more concrete stuff that'll happen in the whiteboard, which will obviously depend on game_display
20100528 23:48:28< fendrin> boucman: no we don't
20100528 23:49:01< boucman> fendrin: so the reason there is no get_singleton method in editor_display is historicall ?
20100528 23:49:06< fendrin> boucman: There is a collection of map_context that contains editor_maps which is derived from game_map.
20100528 23:49:37< CIA-86> gabba * r42991 /trunk/src/display.cpp: Cosmetic corrections to display::render_image
20100528 23:49:45< CIA-86> gabba * r42992 /trunk/src/ (arrow.cpp arrow.hpp): Arrows: drawing code
20100528 23:49:58< fendrin> boucman: Well, It was there since I wrote my editor enhancements, I don't know about things that happened earlier in the past.
20100528 23:50:50< boucman> well the fact that game_display is officially a singleton is from the 1.7 era, so it makes sense it hasn't migrated to editor_display...
20100528 23:51:24< gabba> boucman: ok, the arrow code is complete and in need of review
20100528 23:51:30< fendrin> boucman: But, the call to the singleton only gives you a display. Not a editor_display. It is in fact a editor display. I guess you know what that means knowing how object oriented programming works.
20100528 23:51:57< gabba> boucman: now I need a quick test to get some arrows on the map, dunno what would be the fastest way of achieving that
20100528 23:52:18< boucman> fendrin: currently get_singleton returns a game_display, and there is no game_singleton in display
20100528 23:52:41< fendrin> Ah yes.
20100528 23:53:17< gabba> ah damn, I do need to use image::locator instead of surface
20100528 23:53:25< boucman> gabba: you could locally hack game_display::set_route (which is called on footstep change)
20100528 23:53:27< fendrin> boucman: I guess we really should think about reorganizing the whole display class tree sometime.
20100528 23:53:55< boucman> or you could hardcode a call to add_arrow in the display constructor with a simple path (since patch don't even need to be continuous at this point
20100528 23:53:56< gabba> boucman: ok, I'll take a look
20100528 23:54:06< boucman> fendrin: i'm all for it
20100528 23:54:20< boucman>  /patch/path
20100528 23:54:28< alink> gabba: and if you want multiple arrow, try rendering the goto ?
20100528 23:54:32< alink> mmh maybe too much work
20100528 23:55:32< alink> yeah stay away of gotos :-)
20100528 23:56:23< CIA-86> elias * r42993 /trunk/data/tools/wmlunits: [wmlunits] made it work on python 2.5
20100528 23:56:32< alink> gabba: for testing such thing, as boucman said, hacking something linked to mouse allow to quickly test various cases
20100528 23:57:54< gabba> alink: maybe a debug command that allows you to draw arrows with the mouse or something like that, but I'll start with the simplest hardcoded stuff I can
20100528 23:58:56< alink> just follow footsteps seems easier, you can use goto and waypoints to draw crazy paths
--- Log closed Sat May 29 00:00:04 2010