--- Log opened Sat May 01 00:00:29 2010
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20100501 15:39:18< happygrue> mordante: regarding the idea of improving testing, I really liked the idea of a 'quality assurance' panel or something like it.
20100501 15:39:48< happygrue> if we can get 10+ people from the community fired up about looking for and reporting bugs I think it would help
20100501 15:40:07< happygrue> and people can ping those people with bug reports and so on, if they become known as 'goto' people
20100501 15:40:34< happygrue> I get occasional reports when I am on the mp server, but ususally when I am playing a game or doing moderation I don't have time to follow them up
20100501 15:41:45< happygrue> if we could increase the number of people who feel 'responsible' for making sure that reports get filed I think it would be a good thing.  Perhaps even using an IRC channel/google group or just gna to try to keep organized?
20100501 15:42:31< mordante> happygrue, the problems seems that people don't report the errors they find and it seems MP players are worse as average in this regard
20100501 15:42:53< happygrue> I had high hopes that the map making compitition from Christmas would lead to more people moving over to the dev branch but it didn't work out that way.  Perhaps another event more structured for that purpose would help
20100501 15:43:03< mordante> I's seen quite often forum posts about `wellknown' bugs that none of the devs has ever heard of
20100501 15:43:18< happygrue> mordante: yes, I think the mp community is lacking in that regard
20100501 15:43:40< happygrue> partly because when they are playing a game and they crash, the priority is to get back into the game
20100501 15:43:50< happygrue> it isn't to restart in debug mode and duplicate it
20100501 15:44:12< happygrue> I wonder if a "report crash" button a la firefox is worth thinking about?
20100501 15:44:43< happygrue> I am not sure how useful such reports would be.  I tend to think that just having a bunch of people take a bit more ownership of reporting bugs is better
20100501 15:46:06< happygrue> some of the mp community would get motivated to be given some 'offical' motivation for trying to report all bugs they hear about I think.  And I am always able to find players to help me test and reproduce a bug if I am trying to examine it.  The problem is that I am rarlely hanging around in the lobby.
20100501 15:46:39< mordante> I think such a button is quite a bit of work and I doubt it will pay off
20100501 15:46:52< happygrue> mordante: that is what I thought.
20100501 15:46:58< mordante> we need people who report bugs and test
20100501 15:47:12< happygrue> also: is it worth reporting a bug if you have no idea what happened?
20100501 15:47:17< mordante> but I've got to go now, will be back in a few hours
20100501 15:47:19< happygrue> but just posing "I crashed" and a log?
20100501 15:47:23< happygrue> mordante: ok
20100501 15:48:09< mordante> happygrue, if you have no idea at all it has no value, but I assume most of the time you did something
20100501 15:48:30< mordante> eg I was waiting for my turn and when I came back xxx happened
20100501 15:49:01< mordante> not much info but if more people have the same issue, somebody might pay more attention and find more hints
20100501 15:49:09< happygrue> I see.
20100501 15:49:21< mordante> or at least we have an idea where to look during reproducing it
20100501 15:49:40< mordante> that was the biggest problem with the lobby bugs, getting them reproduced properly
20100501 15:49:58< mordante> really away now
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20100501 18:49:15< AI0867> mordante: http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Backtraces.html <-- this sounds interesting
20100501 18:56:09< mordante> AI0867, indeed very interesting, do you know whether it's new or not?
20100501 19:03:18< AI0867> I've found a page from 2003 that describes it
20100501 19:03:22< AI0867> so probably not
20100501 19:15:58< mordante> ok interesting so it's possible to easily create backtraces
20100501 19:17:32< Ivanovic> could we use this function for the wmlchild like problem?
20100501 19:20:19< mordante> maybe it couldn't hurt to build it in an see where it can be used
20100501 19:33:10< AI0867> I'll add it to asserts.hpp after I finish splitting the editor and pathfind branch
20100501 19:35:54< mordante> would be cool
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20100501 21:45:58< AI0867> maybe asserts.hpp isn't the right place though
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20100501 23:50:38< AI0867> it seems that getting more than frame pointers requires a debug build =/
--- Log closed Sun May 02 00:00:35 2010