--- Log opened Thu May 27 00:00:51 2010
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20100527 00:46:29< Aethaeryn> Temp solution to the Internet month-long outage... 3G-to-Wifi hotspot.
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20100527 00:49:46<+CIA-34> wesnoth-umc-dev: aethaeryn * r7191 /branches/1.8/Underlands_RPG/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Some tweaks based on local playtesting...
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20100527 01:56:59< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: Is it possible to attach a variable to a unit?
20100527 01:57:06< Aethaeryn> Like "this unit has a key"
20100527 02:00:48<+CIA-34> wesnoth-umc-dev: aethaeryn * r7192 /branches/1.8/Underlands_RPG/scenarios/02_Unknown_Chambers.cfg: If a side is missing a secondary unit, a replacement will spawn when the village is discovered.
20100527 02:03:44< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: yes
20100527 02:04:03< Elvish_Pillager> set (stored unit).variables.(anything) and unstore it
20100527 02:12:30< Elvish_Pillager> Hmm. WML can't change a unit's alignment?
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20100527 02:36:04< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: Yes it can.
20100527 02:36:30< Elvish_Pillager> I tried changing a stored unit's alignment variable. It didn't do anything when unstored.
20100527 02:37:30< Gambit> stored_unit.alignment?
20100527 02:37:37< Elvish_Pillager> yes
20100527 02:37:49< Gambit> Worked in my one add-on.
20100527 02:37:56< Gambit> *+that I've not played since 1.6 though
20100527 02:39:39< Elvish_Pillager> Hmm.
20100527 02:39:46< Elvish_Pillager> I wonder what I'm doing wrong here.
20100527 02:40:55< Gambit> Maybe someone broke it
20100527 02:41:09< Gambit> what're you setting it to?
20100527 02:41:47< Elvish_Pillager> "chaotic", when it was lawful
20100527 02:41:55< Elvish_Pillager> {VARIABLE reantouch_victim.alignment chaotic}
20100527 02:42:56< Gambit> "chaotic" maybe?
20100527 02:42:59< Gambit> That shouldn't matter.
20100527 02:43:16< Gambit> But maybe.
20100527 02:43:32< Elvish_Pillager> hmm.
20100527 02:45:00< Gambit> XD wrong channel
20100527 02:45:04< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: (8:43:41 PM) Gambit: Nevermind. Mine doesn't have it in quotes.
20100527 02:45:04< Gambit> (8:43:49 PM) Gambit: I'm going to go see if mine still works.
20100527 02:45:16< Elvish_Pillager> thanks, tell me the result
20100527 02:46:52< Gambit> Works perfectly.
20100527 02:47:14< Gambit> [set_variable]
20100527 02:47:14< Gambit> name=worker.alignment
20100527 02:47:14< Gambit> value={ALIGN}
20100527 02:47:14< Gambit> [/set_variable]
20100527 02:47:24< Gambit> and to that I passed "chaotic"
20100527 02:47:39< Gambit> minus quotes
20100527 02:48:09< Gambit> You sure you have a unit stored there? Try changing it's hitpoints or something.
20100527 02:50:51 * Espreon wonders if Elvish_Pillager knows of the magic that is the inspection dialog.
20100527 02:51:27 * Elvish_Pillager does
20100527 02:51:48< Espreon> Isn't it just awesome?
20100527 02:51:52< Gambit> Yes!
20100527 02:52:06< Elvish_Pillager> yeah, pretty awesome
20100527 02:52:12< Gambit> Except for one glaring limitation
20100527 02:52:28< Espreon> Oh?
20100527 02:52:35< Gambit> It can only be 32k pixels tall
20100527 02:52:44< Espreon> Ah, that.
20100527 02:52:44< Gambit> So if you have a really long array it will be cut off.
20100527 02:53:10< Gambit> It also does give you the index number in an array
20100527 02:53:20< Gambit> *doesn't
20100527 02:53:56< Gambit> But yeah it's an awesome feature.
20100527 02:54:17< Gambit> Unless you have to store 5 maps inside 5 different units and all of those inside another unit that also has a map in it.
20100527 02:57:57< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager or Gambit: Is it possible to specify the kind of WC or soulless I'm spawning to be the dwarf kind?
20100527 02:58:05< Elvish_Pillager> yes
20100527 02:58:16< Elvish_Pillager> I don't remember how though
20100527 02:58:30< Elvish_Pillager> variation= in the unit tag maybe
20100527 02:59:55< Gambit> Aethaeryn: checl the wildlands
20100527 03:00:00< Gambit> see how the spawn the WC saurians
20100527 03:00:21< Aethaeryn> ah, right
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20100527 03:16:11< Elvish_Pillager> yay, casting lightning bolt one one of your own units now does what it's supposed to
20100527 03:18:49< Elvish_Pillager> oooh, should I use "fanfare-short.wav" for the Gate sound effect? :D
20100527 03:23:18< Elvish_Pillager> oh gosh
20100527 03:23:28< Elvish_Pillager> I wasn't even reaching that line of code, forgot to write the macro in
20100527 03:23:38< Elvish_Pillager> testing now
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20100527 03:24:57< Elvish_Pillager> Okay, works fine
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20100527 03:36:53< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Wilderlands is just what I was looking for, thanks.
20100527 03:36:56<+CIA-34> wesnoth-umc-dev: aethaeryn * r7193 /branches/1.8/Underlands_RPG/scenarios/02_Unknown_Chambers.cfg: Dialog, plot advancing, and Undead spawning for final battle; only key missing.
20100527 03:37:01< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: And variation= is what Wilderlands uses, so also thanks.
20100527 03:37:28< Elvish_Pillager> heh
20100527 03:38:29< Aethaeryn> I just need to do the key bit and then I'm ready for the test...
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20100527 03:38:38< Aethaeryn> Since I haven't balanced it I'm not going to code the victory bit yet.
20100527 03:39:02< Aethaeryn> Since there's a very good chance that victory is impossible or too easy, and since I don't have the next scenario drawn yet.
20100527 03:54:54< Elvish_Pillager> hmm. I guess fanfare-short isn't a good sound for Gate because Gate is used just as often to run away as to attack
20100527 03:55:38< Elvish_Pillager> I could use the evil-laugh sound - it often applies - but it would get old if people cast Gate a lot, which often happens
20100527 04:01:08< Aethaeryn> ah, sounds.
20100527 04:01:12< Aethaeryn> I usually play with sound off.
20100527 04:01:22< Aethaeryn> I'll have to go through my conent with sound all, playing through it all, one week
20100527 04:01:26< Aethaeryn> so I can add sounds and special music XD
20100527 04:03:34< Elvish_Pillager> Huh, there's just no good sound effect for Gate.
20100527 04:03:49< Elvish_Pillager> Maybe I WILL set it to fanfare-short.wav so that it will annoy people who use it too much :p
20100527 04:04:03< Elvish_Pillager> and add an ironic overtone to cowardice
20100527 04:04:33< Elvish_Pillager> I mean, it certainly should get some sort of dramatic announcement.
20100527 04:13:30< Elvish_Pillager> Hmm. There's a minor bug with the display here, but I'm not going to work at fixing it just yet. Time to release!
20100527 04:28:07< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: okay, you said earlier about how I can give an individual unit a variable.
20100527 04:28:10< Aethaeryn> such as "I have a key"
20100527 04:28:23< Aethaeryn> I kinda skipped around that and coded the rest of the scenario (except for the ending)
20100527 04:28:27< Gambit> Aethaeryn: stored_unit.variables.has_key
20100527 04:28:29< Aethaeryn> but now I want to code the key part
20100527 04:28:46< Aethaeryn> so store a unit when he movesto, give it the variable has_key, and remove the image of the key.
20100527 04:28:53< Gambit> Then you can [filter][filter_wml][variables]has_key=1[/variable][/filter_wml][/filter]
20100527 04:29:19< Aethaeryn> well, I already have a [filter] x=17 y=38 race=dwarf [/filter]
20100527 04:29:30< Aethaeryn> I would add the [filter_wml] to the [filter]?
20100527 04:29:41< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Later on when you want to filter to see if a unit has the key.
20100527 04:29:45< Gambit> Yes.
20100527 04:30:28< Aethaeryn> why [filter_wml]?
20100527 04:30:42< Gambit> Aethaeryn: [filter_wml] literally filters values out of the unit's definition.
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20100527 04:31:12< Gambit> Yuo could do [filter_wml][attack]damage=5 or something.
20100527 04:31:15< Gambit> It's that awesomesauce.
20100527 04:31:27< Gambit> It's the only tag that will filter variables.
20100527 04:32:37< Aethaeryn> I do [if] [variable] all the time :P
20100527 04:32:42< Aethaeryn> idk what you're talking about :P
20100527 04:33:01< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Okay but then the event triggers
20100527 04:33:04< Gambit> and can't be undone
20100527 04:33:10< Gambit> and you have to  have first_time_only=no
20100527 04:33:18< Gambit> [filter_wml] is... more elegant.
20100527 04:33:20< Gambit> And shorter.
20100527 04:33:25< Aethaeryn> well, none of these can be undone anyway
20100527 04:33:31< Aethaeryn> they're key plot movers
20100527 04:33:43< Aethaeryn> finding the village, opening the area with the key
20100527 04:33:46< Gambit> Aethaeryn: If a dwarf moved to 17,38 that didn't have the key
20100527 04:33:49< Gambit> it wouldn't be able to undo
20100527 04:34:09< Aethaeryn> If a dwarf moved to 17,38 and didn't have the key I'd have him speak "hey, I need a key"
20100527 04:34:14< Aethaeryn> 17,38 is at the end of a path.
20100527 04:34:20< Aethaeryn> It opens up more if you have a key.
20100527 04:34:57< Aethaeryn> Gambit: you just need to see my scenario to understand how it works :P
20100527 04:35:04< Gambit> True.
20100527 04:35:08< Gambit> You know your situation best.
20100527 04:35:59< Aethaeryn> Anyway, it's rather freeform exploration scenarios...
20100527 04:36:06< Aethaeryn> But, there are areas you cannot cross until you trigger an event.
20100527 04:36:14< Aethaeryn> Three events are ncessary triggers.
20100527 04:36:29< Aethaeryn> (1) discovering the village; if you lost any units you will find survivors to replenish your number
20100527 04:37:13< Aethaeryn> (2) taking the key (which you have to find in the village) to 17,38, where you find a bunch of dwarves, one of whom lowers the river...
20100527 04:37:22< Aethaeryn> and when the river is lowered a bunch of undead spawn
20100527 04:37:30< Aethaeryn> (3) killing every single undead unit will end the scenario.
20100527 04:37:48< Aethaeryn> you can completely bypass the trolls at the beginning if you don't want to fight.
20100527 04:38:06< Aethaeryn> you just miss out on a little more than 200g each (you each get 200g at end, too, so it's significant) and two items
20100527 04:38:11< Gambit> alright well good night and good luck
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20100527 04:53:01< Aethaeryn> damn it... I did it wrong.
20100527 04:53:10< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: Can you tell me what I did wrong?
20100527 04:53:36< Elvish_Pillager> hi?
20100527 04:54:02< Elvish_Pillager> yeah, you coded buggy WML
20100527 04:54:29<+CIA-34> wesnoth-umc-dev: aethaeryn * r7194 /branches/1.8/Underlands_RPG/scenarios/02_Unknown_Chambers.cfg: Incorrectly added the key.
20100527 04:57:34< Aethaeryn> wesbot: /branches/1.8/Underlands_RPG/scenarios/02_Unknown_Chambers.cfg
20100527 04:57:37< Aethaeryn> wesbot: dir /branches/1.8/Underlands_RPG/scenarios/02_Unknown_Chambers.cfg
20100527 04:57:42< Aethaeryn> wesbot: show /branches/1.8/Underlands_RPG/scenarios/02_Unknown_Chambers.cfg
20100527 04:57:45< Aethaeryn> wesbot: help
20100527 04:57:45<+wesbot> Aethaeryn: I could tell you about bug(s), feature(s), task(s), patch(es), a log revision, update the topic, last seen of people... you name it.
20100527 04:58:14< Aethaeryn> wesbot: help log revision
20100527 04:58:23< Aethaeryn> wesbot: log revision
20100527 04:58:27< Aethaeryn> meh
20100527 04:58:58< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/wesnoth-umc-dev/branches/1.8/Underlands_RPG/scenarios/02_Unknown_Chambers.cfg?revision=7194&view=markup
20100527 04:59:45< Aethaeryn> 1225-1284
20100527 04:59:58< Aethaeryn> are the relevant lines
20100527 05:00:23< Elvish_Pillager> okay,
20100527 05:00:37< Elvish_Pillager> you can't put a not inside [filter_wml] IIRC
20100527 05:00:49< Elvish_Pillager> put [not] [filter_wml] instead
20100527 05:00:51< Aethaeryn> yes, I can.
20100527 05:00:56< Aethaeryn> that part works fine.
20100527 05:01:01< Aethaeryn> the "This wall looks like it's sealed"
20100527 05:01:07< Aethaeryn> the problem is that it doesn't detect that he has_key
20100527 05:01:09< Elvish_Pillager> and the inner tag is not what you have at all
20100527 05:01:13< Elvish_Pillager> the syntax is exactly this
20100527 05:01:34< Elvish_Pillager> [filter_wml] [variables] has_key=1 [/variables] [/filter_wml]
20100527 05:02:03< Aethaeryn> what's the point of having [variables] and [variable], one letter off, with very different syntax? :P
20100527 05:02:32< Elvish_Pillager> What ELSE would you call unit.variables?
20100527 05:02:59< Elvish_Pillager> and you know, inside that tag you can have tags with arbitrary names.
20100527 05:03:01< Aethaeryn> well, when Gambit said [variables] foo [/variable] I assumed he meant the [variable] tag I know :P
20100527 05:03:18< Elvish_Pillager> No, it was just a typo..
20100527 05:03:31< Elvish_Pillager> Remember that stored units are a tag structure just like every other part of WML.
20100527 05:06:03< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: okay, fixed it up now
20100527 05:07:53< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: if you want to see if I'll be hosting a game of it now
20100527 05:07:59<+CIA-34> wesnoth-umc-dev: aethaeryn * r7195 /branches/1.8/Underlands_RPG/scenarios/02_Unknown_Chambers.cfg: It works now, thanks Elvish Pillager.
20100527 05:08:08< Elvish_Pillager> mmh.
20100527 05:08:12< Elvish_Pillager> You have internet?
20100527 05:08:20< Aethaeryn> 3G-to-Wifi
20100527 05:08:26< Aethaeryn> shitty speed, 5 GB cap
20100527 05:08:29< Aethaeryn> but we're talking Wesnoth, here.
20100527 05:08:34< Elvish_Pillager> okay
20100527 05:08:53< Aethaeryn> What's the worst that can happen? :)
20100527 05:09:02< Elvish_Pillager> oh by the way, I released a new EoHS version today
20100527 05:09:18< Elvish_Pillager> with fanfare-short for Gate :p
20100527 05:09:50< Elvish_Pillager> okay, I'm on the server as Pillage2
20100527 05:11:52< Aethaeryn> got sidetracked by riddles
20100527 05:11:54< Aethaeryn> on IRC
20100527 05:11:56< Aethaeryn> hosting now
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20100527 05:36:20< Aethaery1> Elvish_Pillager: did my connection on Wesnoth drop?
20100527 05:36:28< Aethaery1> what was the last thing I said and di dyou say anything since then?
20100527 05:36:33< Elvish_Pillager> looks like it
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20100527 05:36:48< Elvish_Pillager> last "anyway, in the 8 or so..."
20100527 05:36:54< Elvish_Pillager> I've said stuff since
20100527 05:37:00< Aethaeryn> omg
20100527 05:37:05< Aethaeryn> I had a bit rant
20100527 05:37:20< Aethaeryn> "just trolls and undead for now, but later on there'll be orcs and humans, rival dwarves, drakes (Volcano which will be a pain)"
20100527 05:37:26< Aethaeryn> and the battles are usually bigger than in most RPGs
20100527 05:37:29< Aethaeryn> since you can tolerate it when you have 9 units
20100527 05:37:33< Aethaeryn> oooh, the drakes will be really annoying
20100527 05:37:48< Aethaeryn> because it'll be village -> explore -> next scenario explore -> big battle -> village
20100527 05:38:01< Aethaeryn> so it's a very long time from the village you get to buy supplies and henchmen at to the next village and there's 
20100527 05:38:15< Aethaeryn> a big drake battle right before the village
20100527 05:38:18< Aethaeryn> you saw none of that?
20100527 05:38:43< Elvish_Pillager> indeed
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20100527 06:37:24< Espreon> Mabe I shouldn't have eaten that entire thing of queso ibérico...
20100527 06:37:28< Espreon> *Maybe
20100527 06:38:16< Espreon> The scary part is when I melted down the last quarter of it, soaked the separated oil in a paper towel and set it ablaze, it burned for at least three minutes.
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20100527 08:27:09<+CIA-34> wesnoth-umc-dev: aethaeryn * r7196 /branches/1.8/Underlands_RPG/scenarios/ (01_The_Entrance.cfg 02_Unknown_Chambers.cfg): Playing with fog off is probably better for the kind of maps and game style...
20100527 08:28:07< zookeeper> someone gave EP bad advice regarding changing alignments
20100527 08:28:35< Espreon> Oh? Tell us moar, learnèd one.
20100527 08:28:41< Aethaeryn> woah
20100527 08:28:57< Aethaeryn> all these experts on Wesnoth IRC channels really do seem omnipresent.
20100527 08:29:12< Espreon> Well, yeahz...
20100527 08:29:24< zookeeper> if you want to change a unit's alignment, use an [object], otherwise the effect will disappear on levelup
20100527 08:30:24< Aethaeryn> oh, [object] is so useful.
20100527 08:30:50< Aethaeryn> I use [object] to give a unit with hammer attacks magical.
20100527 08:31:18< Aethaeryn> I wish more WML had the flexibility and working-as-intended-ability as [object]
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20100527 18:30:21< AI0867> loonybot { std::string a("     "); char* end;int i = strtol(a.c_str(), &end, 0); cout << i << " " << (*end == '\0' ? "end" : "not end"); }
20100527 18:30:27<+loonybot> 0 not end
20100527 18:30:53< AI0867> loonybot { std::string a("     "); char* end;int i = strtol(a.c_str(), &end, 0); cout << i << " " << (*end == a.c_str() ? "start" : "not start"); }
20100527 18:30:53<+loonybot> error: ISO C++ forbids comparison between pointer and integer
20100527 18:31:00< AI0867> loonybot { std::string a("     "); char* end;int i = strtol(a.c_str(), &end, 0); cout << i << " " << (*end == *a.c_str() ? "start" : "not start"); }
20100527 18:31:01<+loonybot> 0 start
20100527 18:31:19< AI0867> loonybot { std::string a("     0"); char* end;int i = strtol(a.c_str(), &end, 0); cout << i << " " << (*end == '\0' ? "end" : "not end"); }
20100527 18:31:20<+loonybot> 0 end
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20100527 20:34:03<+CIA-34> wesnoth-umc-dev: AI0867 * r7197 /branches/maintenance-toolchain/umcpropfix: Added jar, html, xml, xsl and css to umcpropfix. Added FIXMEs about ambiguous executability
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20100527 21:10:43< timotei> hey Espreon
20100527 21:10:43< timotei> how are you doing?
20100527 21:12:01< Espreon> I'm fine.
20100527 21:12:05< Espreon> How 'bout you?
20100527 21:12:23< timotei> me 2 :D
20100527 21:12:35< Espreon> Excellent.
20100527 21:12:36< timotei> have you started the exams period?
20100527 21:12:51< Espreon> Nope, no finals for at least a week.
20100527 21:13:22< timotei> nice. mine start tomorrow/over 2 days. but I have to finish first some milestones:D
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20100527 22:00:43< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: you here?
20100527 22:00:54< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: Yes.
20100527 22:01:00< Elvish_Pillager> Let's talk about THS.
20100527 22:01:15< Elvish_Pillager> You say you want me to make it into an era. Does that quite make sense?
20100527 22:01:30< Elvish_Pillager> I mean, the way it is, the map-maker has to specify the shops, for instance, anyway
20100527 22:01:30< Aethaeryn> Well, yes.
20100527 22:01:40< Aethaeryn> By era, I mean, "able to make maps for it"
20100527 22:01:51< Aethaeryn> Though perhaps you could script it to turn villages into shops
20100527 22:02:04< Aethaeryn> I have a village remover to make EoT (a building era where you build villages) playable on mainline maps.
20100527 22:02:09< Elvish_Pillager> You know, it would be pretty cool if you could make it not require anything, just the map
20100527 22:02:12< Elvish_Pillager> so
20100527 22:02:16< Aethaeryn> You *could* do a village switcher
20100527 22:02:20< Elvish_Pillager> different village types for different shops or something?
20100527 22:02:32< Elvish_Pillager> What terrains were the shops in THS? Just grass with an image?
20100527 22:02:33< Aethaeryn> which would switch unknown village types into an acceptable shop type
20100527 22:02:40< Aethaeryn> Oh, it was villages
20100527 22:02:43< Aethaeryn> Most were villages.
20100527 22:02:45< Aethaeryn> Some were images.
20100527 22:02:49< Elvish_Pillager> Hmm.
20100527 22:02:51< Aethaeryn> temple, for instance, was an image.
20100527 22:02:53< Aethaeryn> Maybe 50/50
20100527 22:03:01< Aethaeryn> Random scattering could do the trick.
20100527 22:03:03< Elvish_Pillager> that seems like it should be made consistent
20100527 22:03:09< Aethaeryn> Or if you are a control freak, you could go through each mainline map
20100527 22:03:13< Aethaeryn> and give coordinates.
20100527 22:03:19< Elvish_Pillager> Hmph.
20100527 22:03:20< Aethaeryn> Probably wouldn't be that much work
20100527 22:03:24< Aethaeryn> Just 4-5 coordinates per map
20100527 22:03:27< Aethaeryn> maybe an hour tops
20100527 22:03:34< Elvish_Pillager> Why would you play it on a mainline map? They hardly have any water
20100527 22:03:35< Aethaeryn> Probably as long to test and get the random thing working
20100527 22:03:42< Aethaeryn> Could do a flooding script too
20100527 22:03:49< Elvish_Pillager> he heh
20100527 22:03:54< Aethaeryn> But a few mainline maps might make sense
20100527 22:04:01< Aethaeryn> Weldyn channel
20100527 22:04:08< Aethaeryn> Maybe Fallenstar Lake
20100527 22:04:19< Elvish_Pillager> I'd rather let people modify mainline maps into THS maps; if it makes sense for the map, it shouldn't be too hard
20100527 22:04:22< Aethaeryn> just ideas though
20100527 22:04:25< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100527 22:04:33< Aethaeryn> Ideally, there should just be a "high seas" mappack.
20100527 22:04:37< Elvish_Pillager> Yeah.
20100527 22:04:39< Aethaeryn> One would be the original THS map updated
20100527 22:04:42< Aethaeryn> one would be my map
20100527 22:04:50< Aethaeryn> and then other people could contribute maps with unique styles
20100527 22:04:58< Elvish_Pillager> yeah
20100527 22:04:59< Aethaeryn> and the mappack could set a dependency for your era
20100527 22:05:03< Elvish_Pillager> yeah
20100527 22:05:06< Aethaeryn> so if people download the mappack and not an era, they'll get the era too
20100527 22:05:23< Elvish_Pillager> What I plan to do is this:
20100527 22:05:52< Elvish_Pillager> I'll start coding the era essentially from scratch, but with borrowing huge amounts of code from my old work and the original THS.
20100527 22:06:18< Aethaeryn> Basically, the main recycling point should be the macros for shop placement, et cetera.
20100527 22:06:23< Elvish_Pillager> I'll make my own decisions as to the game mechanics, not blindly following what THS had, but generally trying to stay the same.
20100527 22:06:29< Aethaeryn> Even if the macros themselves are different, I mean the macro-calls should be similar if not identical.
20100527 22:07:03< Elvish_Pillager> I'll probably ask you for input on some things, but including you too much would bog the process down.
20100527 22:07:15< Aethaeryn> Yeah
20100527 22:07:21< Aethaeryn> Honestly, my hands are full...
20100527 22:07:23< Elvish_Pillager> heh
20100527 22:07:33< Aethaeryn> I just kinda want to hand off my map to this inclusive mappack
20100527 22:07:38< Elvish_Pillager> When I've got something workable, I'll show you it.
20100527 22:07:40< Aethaeryn> Since I put a lot of work into that.
20100527 22:07:44< Aethaeryn> I don't like abandonning add-ons
20100527 22:07:50< Elvish_Pillager> okay
20100527 22:07:53< Aethaeryn> Some people don't mind
20100527 22:07:58< Elvish_Pillager> yeah, I get it
20100527 22:08:07< Elvish_Pillager> I'm one of the ones who don't mind, but I understand the feeling
20100527 22:08:15< Aethaeryn> Right, if I put a lot of effort into something I want it at least on the server.
20100527 22:08:24< Aethaeryn> Even if I might not really touch it besides wmllint or something
20100527 22:08:32< Elvish_Pillager> brb, going to use the bathroom and then start work.
20100527 22:09:20< Aethaeryn> It really is an ego boost to see some ageless-era no-observer non-English-speaking random game on the server using one of my maps
20100527 22:09:30< Aethaeryn> makes me feel accomplished since I know they couldn't be playing it from word-of-mouth ;)
20100527 22:10:23< Elvish_Pillager> uh, sure they could
20100527 22:10:28< Elvish_Pillager> only takes one bilingual person
20100527 22:11:37< Aethaeryn> No one has the patience to host Master of Dungeons right except me though
20100527 22:11:41< Aethaeryn> based on the few games I saw on the server
20100527 22:11:48< Aethaeryn> I really need a way to let you change more than one hex at once.
20100527 22:11:57< Elvish_Pillager> what's that?
20100527 22:11:59< Aethaeryn> So at least you can set it up quickly.
20100527 22:12:26< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: think an RPG, except where the host has debug mode and the map editor.
20100527 22:12:34< Elvish_Pillager> oh yeah, that
20100527 22:12:38< Aethaeryn> So basically, the host via right-click spawns monsters/NPCs and changes terrain...
20100527 22:12:39< Elvish_Pillager> I played it with one guy. It sucked.
20100527 22:12:41< Aethaeryn> mid-game.
20100527 22:12:46< Aethaeryn> You really need to play it with me as host.
20100527 22:12:49< Elvish_Pillager> Ha ha.
20100527 22:12:50< Aethaeryn> No one else does it right.
20100527 22:12:59< Elvish_Pillager> Does the host also control the units?
20100527 22:13:00< Aethaeryn> I actually change individual hexes, lower walls, decastleify the lowered walls
20100527 22:13:03< Aethaeryn> and basically do mini-maps
20100527 22:13:09< Aethaeryn> Yeah, host controls units.
20100527 22:13:12< Elvish_Pillager> yeah...
20100527 22:13:23< Elvish_Pillager> But you need a good DM for that
20100527 22:13:25< Aethaeryn> Which means that, based on Sturgeon's Law, 90% of them will just spawn yetis turn 1 and be assholes
20100527 22:13:28< Elvish_Pillager> otherwise it's just stupid
20100527 22:13:31< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100527 22:13:38< Aethaeryn> I basically made it for me, and published it by popular demand.
20100527 22:13:53< Aethaeryn> And I haven't seen anyone else be a good DM for that yet...
20100527 22:13:56< Elvish_Pillager> I played with someone who always gave me challenges that were just in my difficulty range
20100527 22:13:58< Aethaeryn> I will have to add some more flexibility to it
20100527 22:14:11< Aethaeryn> such as having a "Fill terrain" option
20100527 22:14:13< Elvish_Pillager> And when I deliberately played badly, they deliberately played the enemy units badly to compensate
20100527 22:14:20< Elvish_Pillager> Not good DMing
20100527 22:14:36< Aethaeryn> so people will actually be able to quickly set up rooms
20100527 22:14:51< Aethaeryn> I, being a mapper first and everything else second, probably set up the best dungeons
20100527 22:14:58< Aethaeryn> grab a replay of a game I hosted sometime.
20100527 22:15:08< Aethaeryn> one of the later ones, when I made the DM more powerful
20100527 22:26:24< Elvish_Pillager> Hmm. Should I make Elvish Lady a possible ship captain? =) (I wouldn't make it a random option)
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20100527 22:39:29< Elvish_Pillager> Ooooooh
20100527 22:39:40< Elvish_Pillager> I wonder if there are any random settings that could be used to generate a random THS map
20100527 22:39:49< Elvish_Pillager> with shroud that would be pretty neat
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20100527 22:58:53< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: Yeah, wesband-style...
20100527 22:58:56< Aethaeryn> I would like that.
20100527 22:59:02 * Elvish_Pillager doesn't know wesband
20100527 22:59:06< Aethaeryn> If wesband maps can be random, I don't see why THS can't.
20100527 22:59:09< Aethaeryn> Wesband is a roguelike
20100527 22:59:11< Elvish_Pillager> wesnoth+angband?
20100527 22:59:30< Aethaeryn> So it's an RPG (1-3 players) that's a progression of randomly generated fights as you move down dungeons...
20100527 22:59:36< Aethaeryn> with a stop at the store between every level.
20100527 22:59:46< Elvish_Pillager> oh, sure we could write our own random generator, but I was wondering if the existing one can do something reasonable for us too
20100527 22:59:49< Aethaeryn> think nethack, but with better graphics and wesnoth's engines.
20100527 23:00:01< Elvish_Pillager> and not as many commands I assume :p
20100527 23:00:04< Aethaeryn> Yeah, what I'm saying is tweak wesband's generator to spawn villages and water ;)
20100527 23:00:42< Elvish_Pillager> Also, do you have any objections to making Elvish Lady a possible captain? :p
20100527 23:02:05< Aethaeryn> you can non-random it
20100527 23:02:20< Elvish_Pillager> yes
20100527 23:02:30< Aethaeryn> as in, exclude it from the random list.
20100527 23:02:34< Elvish_Pillager> yes
20100527 23:02:42< Aethaeryn> I don't care if you make peasants leaders
20100527 23:02:45< Aethaeryn> as long as you can't luck into them.
20100527 23:03:00< Elvish_Pillager> I care; peasants would be absurd.
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20100527 23:03:06< Aethaeryn> I make water units leaders in EoT
20100527 23:03:10< Aethaeryn> and you can random into them.
20100527 23:03:16< Aethaeryn> But the swamp/water leaders give you free flooding.
20100527 23:03:24< Aethaeryn> So theoretically, it should lead to a really intersting fight.
20100527 23:03:41< Aethaeryn> Since in 8 turns you could have half of a small map in water. :P
20100527 23:03:52< Aethaeryn> and imagine water leaders on lagoon
20100527 23:15:43< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: Item idea!
20100527 23:15:47< Aethaeryn> For my RPG
20100527 23:15:53< Aethaeryn> Ale...
20100527 23:16:55< Aethaeryn> +2 max HP, +4 heal; effects last for 3 turns... there's a chance it turns your melee attacks into berserk, which increases the more ale you have affecting you at a ceratain point.
20100527 23:17:10< Elvish_Pillager> lol
20100527 23:17:13< Aethaeryn> so, take 5 ale in a turn and you get +10 max HP and beserk melee for 3 turns.
20100527 23:17:27< Aethaeryn> basically a twist on the potions, but only for a dwarf-only RPG :P
20100527 23:17:38< Aethaeryn> if later in the campaign you get to have non-dwarf henchmen...
20100527 23:17:44< Aethaeryn> their tolerance for ale will be 1/4 the dwarf tolerance :P
20100527 23:17:57< Elvish_Pillager> heh
20100527 23:18:06< Elvish_Pillager> that reminds me of an item idea I had, not for anything in particular though
20100527 23:18:25< Elvish_Pillager> I read Watchmen recently (have you?) and I totally want to include sugar cubes as a usable item in something
20100527 23:18:25< Aethaeryn> actually, for its price, it'll be more efficient than either the healing potion or the health-boosting potion.
20100527 23:18:32< Elvish_Pillager> It would probably restore 1 HP
20100527 23:18:46< Aethaeryn> But it's only temporary, and berserk-for-3-turns is a double-edged sword
20100527 23:19:15< Aethaeryn> Sometimes units can be too good for their own good, and wind up getting killed by taking out 4-5 suicidal AI in a turn, thus exposing themselves to more AI than they would have if their attack was weaker.
20100527 23:19:30< Aethaeryn> that's probably the main threat WCs pose.
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--- Log closed Fri May 28 00:00:58 2010