--- Log opened Mon May 24 00:00:24 2010
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20100524 00:24:49< un214> finally noticed the 1.8.1 update
20100524 00:24:59< un214> did they ever fix that grunt OOS?
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20100524 00:48:55< Soliton> if by they you mean the author of the ageless era then i believe so.
20100524 00:49:30< un214> really, the grunt OOS is caused by the ageless era
20100524 00:52:51< un214> here goes scons extra_flags_release=-O3
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20100524 01:26:19< Hectichermit> hi
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20100524 01:44:47< un214> say what happened to "hide unit ellipses"
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20100524 02:33:40< Valkier> join #wesnoth-music
20100524 02:33:44< Valkier> doh
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20100524 09:36:32< Ivanovic> moin
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20100524 10:29:42< hystreni__> hellu
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20100524 10:33:43< hystreni> hey
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20100524 13:16:19< Gambit> LOL how come I never saw this? http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30066
20100524 13:16:59< Gambit> It's the same guy that expanded our map so nicely. :)
20100524 13:17:53< Gambit> s/our/the :\
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20100524 15:25:03< Gambit> Zarel: Kanye West?
20100524 15:25:05< Gambit> lol
20100524 15:25:30< Gambit> But you didn't quite pull it off.
20100524 15:25:38< Gambit> You have to say something about them being the best of all time.
20100524 15:25:41< Gambit> Of all time!
20100524 15:27:54< Gambit> Give him a particular brand :P
20100524 15:28:04< Gambit> Like duracell is the best of all time... of all time.
20100524 15:28:40< Gambit> If you don't I will. No matter how lame it looks :P
20100524 15:28:50< Gambit> You just can't half finish a rap meme like that.
20100524 15:28:58< Gambit> God will kill a kitten.
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20100524 15:34:58< Zarel> Gambit: Heh.
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20100524 15:41:58< Gambit> s/duracell/xantrex
20100524 15:42:43< shadowmaster> /x
20100524 15:42:52< Gambit> searching "really big batteries" doesn't turn up much
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20100524 15:43:10< Gambit> "residential batteries" "batteries for solar cells" they all fail to give brand names :@
20100524 15:43:12< shadowmaster> s/EXP1/EXP2/[FLAGS]
20100524 15:43:37-!- DiRaven [~diraven@158-227-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 15:43:49< shadowmaster> EXP1: regular expression for matching. EXP2: replacement expression. FLAGS: depends on the interpreter. Perl takes some tasty optional flags.
20100524 15:44:07< Gambit> shadowmaster: No. This is my made up language which is loosely based on that which one might find inside an oyster.
20100524 15:44:26< shadowmaster> parenthetical delimiters can be used, as long as you use a chracter that doesn't occur in a expression or is escaped
20100524 15:44:41< shadowmaster> e.g. s(EXP1)(EXP2), s.EXP1.EXP2.
20100524 15:44:52< shadowmaster> Gambit: we started the day the wrong way then.
20100524 15:45:11 * Gambit hates it when that happens.
20100524 15:45:49< shadowmaster> off with your head
20100524 15:46:04< Gambit> In other news that language you hate hearing about can create and manipulate java objects such as java.net.socket.
20100524 15:46:17< Gambit> But leaving a web page open for 24 hours eventually eats up 100% of the processor :(
20100524 15:46:25< Gambit> For some odd reason.
20100524 15:46:27< shadowmaster> 08:20:46 <shadowmaster> and since this didn't happen before a certain udev upgrade...I'll have to cut some forumer's head off
20100524 15:46:30< shadowmaster> 08:21:00 <shadowmaster> just because.
20100524 15:46:38< Gambit> I think you mean Just Cause
20100524 15:46:40< Gambit> 2
20100524 15:46:56< shadowmaster> doesn't matter, it's still funny watching you tempting fate
20100524 15:46:59-!- bladesleep is now known as blademeld
20100524 15:50:03< Zarel> Gambit: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=430021#p430021
20100524 15:50:30< Zarel> Flywheels are a fun way to store power at the power plant level.
20100524 15:51:13< Zarel> Basically, to store power, you make some thing spin faster, and to release power, you slow it down.
20100524 15:52:12< Gambit> NiMH batteries are the best of all time
20100524 15:52:15< Gambit> No memory effect <3
20100524 15:52:23< Zarel> They have other flaws. :P
20100524 15:52:42< Zarel> There's a good reason why most batteries these days are Li-Ion
20100524 15:53:06< Gambit> Yeah but they get memory effect
20100524 15:53:08< Gambit> And ruin laptops
20100524 15:53:12< Gambit> because people didn't know better
20100524 15:53:25< shadowmaster> OMG, RUINED FOREVER
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20100524 15:53:29< Gambit> Lithium Ion batteries make people cry!
20100524 15:53:44< shadowmaster> I didn't know I could ruin my laptop only because I could eventually need to buy another battery.
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20100524 15:54:29< Gambit> The funniest thing is that the school sent me a brand new replacement laptop
20100524 15:54:36< Gambit> And it's battery was down to only like a 5% charge
20100524 15:54:43< Gambit> *cross out "brand new"
20100524 15:54:50< Gambit> Liars.
20100524 15:57:23< Zarel> Heh
20100524 15:58:00< Zarel> http://imagebin.ca/img/tfsiaSN.png
20100524 15:58:06< Zarel> My Wikipedia homepage looks like this! :D
20100524 15:58:41< Zarel> I liked Vector, but I wanted Monobook's background back, so I added it myself. ;)
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20100524 16:50:26< hystreni> hellu?
20100524 16:52:32< Unnheulu|Laptop> Hallo
20100524 16:52:54-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 16:52:54< shadowmaster> hi there
20100524 16:53:11< Aethaeryn> hi
20100524 16:54:00< Zarel> G'day.
20100524 16:54:28< Unnheulu|Laptop> Heya
20100524 16:54:50< Unnheulu|Laptop> Zarel, warzone 2100 is confusing :(
20100524 16:54:54< Zarel> :(
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20100524 16:56:43< Aethaeryn> I admire the whole "warzone 2100 is old so it's open sourced"
20100524 16:56:56< Unnheulu|Laptop> =]
20100524 16:57:03< Aethaeryn> My favorite RTS games are Age of Empires, so they'll possibly be open sourced sometime before I die.
20100524 16:57:10< shadowmaster> Zarel: I agree with Unnheulu|Laptop 
20100524 16:57:13< shadowmaster> honestly.
20100524 16:57:19< Aethaeryn> Even if you could probably get them for $2 a game, there's a big difference between $2 and free...
20100524 16:57:36< Aethaeryn> (Note, Microsoft Games is a mean publisher.)
20100524 16:57:44< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: ohhh, I'd love those getting open sourced
20100524 16:57:53< shadowmaster> I keep wondering why I can't find the cheat codes in plain text anywhere
20100524 16:58:11< hystreni> if i ahve made a map in the map editor and i want the starting posotions to be fixed, do i just open the text file and place a number bwtween 1-9 before the "hex" that they should start on?=
20100524 16:58:27< shadowmaster> some smartass decided to cheat the compiler by making them overly obfuscated games with char arrays I guess
20100524 16:58:54< shadowmaster> hystreni: the map editor has a way to place starting positions
20100524 16:59:05< shadowmaster> it's the button that has the flag icon
20100524 16:59:05< hystreni> shadowmaster, oh :O
20100524 16:59:41< Aethaeryn> So I figure sometime in the next 10-20 years, AoE will be open sourced... If you want it open sourced, don't buy Windows Phone 7... Let Microsoft be irrelevent for the next revolution or two.
20100524 16:59:42< hystreni> thanks, but if i want it to be random then?
20100524 16:59:47< Unnheulu|Laptop> If it places numbers 1-9, could you put a number 10, or would that crash the game?
20100524 17:00:19< Unnheulu|Laptop> hystreni, wml
20100524 17:00:33< shadowmaster> Unnheulu|Laptop: I think 10 is not a valid starting location number for the map parser
20100524 17:00:50< Unnheulu|Laptop> So it'd just crash wesnoth
20100524 17:01:06 * Unnheulu|Laptop remembers once Espreon asked for a traceback off him
20100524 17:01:20< Unnheulu|Laptop> I accidently pressed ctrl+c instead of ctrl+shift+c :(
20100524 17:01:22< shadowmaster> you can still have as many sides as you want if you create their leaders with WML
20100524 17:01:22< hystreni> Unnheulu|Laptop, what now?
20100524 17:01:48< Unnheulu|Laptop> I'm doing my homework atm, so I can't really talk, sorry
20100524 17:02:04< Unnheulu|Laptop> Infact, I shouldn't really be in irc whilst doing homework, c'ya guys later
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20100524 17:02:58< hystreni> i dont understand the text file :S
20100524 17:03:21< hystreni> on the site it says that they rows of "hexes" are like in the game
20100524 17:03:34< shadowmaster> the map files' raw contents aren't intended to be read by a human ;)
20100524 17:03:48< shadowmaster> what the site says is right
20100524 17:04:08< shadowmaster> every hex has a terrain type and overly associated to it, specified by a string of the form type^overlay
20100524 17:05:05< hystreni> yeah but how do i know where each "tile" is through the text?
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20100524 17:05:06< shadowmaster> you shouldn't. If you were coding a scenario you'd specify coordinates most of the time
20100524 17:05:06< shadowmaster> e.g. 1,1 for the top-left-most hex
20100524 17:05:23< hystreni> okey, so thats how ya do it :P
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20100524 17:07:14< hystreni> i want to try to make a survuval mapo
20100524 17:08:00< shadowmaster> you will probably want to take a look at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/BuildingMultiplayer and http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Create in general then
20100524 17:08:31< shadowmaster> (disclaimer: it may take you some time and practice to learn and do it right)
20100524 17:09:28< hystreni> yeah i know, i am reading at the website now ^^ but i are un employed so i have time xD
20100524 17:12:20< hystreni> btw, i tried to add a bunch of survival maps to my game, but seems like if ucked id up,,, becosue now when im in multiplayer i only sees those maps, not the regular ones
20100524 17:18:01< Gambit> oh boy.
20100524 17:18:27< Gambit> hystreni: Did you put your custom maps in the userdata directory?
20100524 17:18:40< Gambit> Or did you go into core/multiplayer with a pair of pruning shears?
20100524 17:18:47< hystreni> Gambit, i put them where the other maps were
20100524 17:18:52< hystreni> :O
20100524 17:19:17< hystreni> /home/hystreni/wesnoth-1.8.1/data/multiplayer
20100524 17:19:37< Gambit> Hmm. Well I know that if there is an error with an addon, it stops loading addons, but keeps what it already has loaded.
20100524 17:19:43< Gambit> So I guess it could do the same thing with multiplayer.
20100524 17:19:56< hystreni> so.... remove all addons?
20100524 17:19:59< Gambit> No.
20100524 17:20:08< Gambit> Copy your maps out.
20100524 17:20:23< hystreni> ive already taken the ones i put in out 
20100524 17:20:28< Gambit> :o
20100524 17:20:38< hystreni> and they are still there..
20100524 17:20:46< Gambit> :s
20100524 17:20:51< Gambit> Time for a fresh install?
20100524 17:21:04< hystreni> took mne so long time to compile everything xD
20100524 17:21:28< Gambit> Linux?
20100524 17:21:32< hystreni> cant u just dra another guys "multiplayer" folder into mine?
20100524 17:21:36< hystreni> yeapp linux
20100524 17:21:39< hystreni> ubuntu
20100524 17:21:52< hystreni> drag*
20100524 17:21:52< Gambit> Wesnoth is in ubuntu's repo isn't it?
20100524 17:21:56< Gambit> And yes.
20100524 17:22:00< hystreni> only 1.6.5
20100524 17:22:00< Gambit> You could do that.
20100524 17:22:04< Gambit> :o
20100524 17:22:11< Gambit> Wow those guys are behind.
20100524 17:22:16< hystreni> i know -_-
20100524 17:22:33< Gambit> So yeah delete the whole multiplayer folder and get a new one.
20100524 17:22:47< Gambit> And then download some mappack off the addon's server.
20100524 17:22:47< hystreni> so ive just to find some1 with 1.8.1 -_-
20100524 17:22:51< Gambit> Delete the files out of it.
20100524 17:22:55< hystreni> yeah
20100524 17:22:57< Gambit> And edit it to use yours.
20100524 17:23:06< hystreni> huh?
20100524 17:23:25< Gambit> hystreni: give your maps an addon.
20100524 17:24:11< hystreni> Gambit, hmmm how?
20100524 17:24:14< Gambit> Download someone elses mappack because that will give you the folder structure and the _main.cfg you need.
20100524 17:24:25< Gambit> But erase their maps and scenarios.
20100524 17:24:36< Gambit> And place yours in.
20100524 17:25:03< hystreni> aha, so thats the easy way to plac my maps there?
20100524 17:26:26< hystreni> erhm i just deleted my WHOLE "mulitplayer" folder, and my maps are still there when i start multiplayer in wesnoth
20100524 17:26:32< hystreni> whats that about?
20100524 17:26:37< Gambit> hystreni: They're in the editor.
20100524 17:26:53< Gambit> *editor's directory.
20100524 17:27:13< Gambit> er restore your multiplayer folder
20100524 17:27:31< Gambit> You meant the ones at the top?
20100524 17:27:42< Gambit> Your maps at the top map list?
20100524 17:28:27< hystreni> when i try to play in multiplayer i only se the maps i have placed there myself in the list, not the regular maps like Dark_forecast
20100524 17:28:50< Gambit> Did you give your maps scenario files?
20100524 17:29:20< hystreni> i donwloaded some from different sites so they had a scenario file, but my own... now
20100524 17:30:47< hystreni> no*
20100524 17:31:51< Gambit> Okay so you made maps in the editor.
20100524 17:32:00< Gambit> Then you copied them into the multiplayer directory?
20100524 17:32:20< Gambit> That shouldn't have broken anything.
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20100524 17:37:08< hystreni> okey but now... i have deleted all the addons and put in the original multiplayer folder... but now i cant start multiplayer in the game
20100524 17:37:15< hystreni> says "found no eras"!
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20100524 17:48:15< Kepakiano> hey, could anyway help me creating a scenario? (not a whole one, just a few questions)
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20100524 17:50:21< Unnheulu|Laptop> I IS BACKZ!
20100524 17:50:34< Kepakiano> wb
20100524 17:51:04< Unnheulu|Laptop> Hallo
20100524 17:51:29< Kepakiano> hi
20100524 17:51:53< Kepakiano> can you tell me how to include standard units in my scenario?
20100524 17:51:57< Kepakiano> eg the iron mauler
20100524 17:52:22< Unnheulu|Laptop> There is a macro for it, which I forgot, or you could use the [unit] tag
20100524 17:52:49< Unnheulu|Laptop> Gambit, what was that webpage shown to your father from his father, and shown from you from your father?
20100524 17:52:58< Kepakiano> yeah, i use the unit tag, but when i type "type = Iron Mauler" the game tells me, it didn't know the unit type
20100524 17:53:25< Gambit> Unnheulu|Laptop: the hell?
20100524 17:53:31< Kepakiano> in my main.cfg i only include the unit path of my campaign
20100524 17:54:24< Gambit> The standard units are included by default.
20100524 17:54:37< Gambit> "Iron Mauler" doesn't exist I guess.
20100524 17:54:48< Gambit> Go into data/core/units/ and make sure you have the right ID.
20100524 17:55:29< Kepakiano> loyalist iron mauler!
20100524 17:55:31< Kepakiano> thanks :)
20100524 17:55:45< Kepakiano> units.wesnoth.org told me, the ID was "Iron Mauler"
20100524 17:56:48< Gambit> name!=id
20100524 17:57:08< Gambit> oh wait
20100524 17:57:10< Gambit> you're right
20100524 17:57:11< Kepakiano> damn, "Iron Mauler" was right :D
20100524 17:57:14< Gambit> it really does say ID...
20100524 17:57:29< Gambit> Typo?
20100524 17:57:34< Gambit> I mean in your code.
20100524 17:57:40 * Gambit looks in data/core/units/
20100524 17:57:44< Kepakiano> it works :)
20100524 17:57:54< Kepakiano> i first put "type = Iron Mauler"
20100524 17:58:13< Kepakiano> which didn't work, but "type =Iron Mauler" does :)
20100524 17:58:30< Gambit> ah yeah
20100524 17:58:52< Gambit> " Iron Mauler" doesn't exist. Okay. Well good luck on the rest of your project.
20100524 17:59:04< Kepakiano> takes some time to unterstand, that it interprets *everything* after the =
20100524 17:59:08< Kepakiano> thanks
20100524 17:59:09< Unnheulu|Laptop> Which is why yaml pwns wml
20100524 17:59:11< Unnheulu|Laptop> ...sorry
20100524 17:59:18< Kepakiano> yaml?
20100524 17:59:25< Unnheulu|Laptop> yaml ain't markup language
20100524 17:59:31< Gambit> Neither is WML
20100524 17:59:35< Unnheulu|Laptop> Its what I'm using in my rtt
20100524 17:59:37< Gambit> see todays #wesnoth-umc-dev logs.
20100524 17:59:39< Kepakiano> yeah, recursive acronyms ftw^^
20100524 17:59:58< Unnheulu|Laptop> Isn't there ping is not ghost?
20100524 18:00:04< Unnheulu|Laptop> And Wine :/
20100524 18:00:13< Kepakiano> and gnu
20100524 18:00:30< Unnheulu|Laptop> What's gnu?
20100524 18:00:37< Gambit> It's like a yak.
20100524 18:00:38< Gambit> But cooler
20100524 18:00:41< Kepakiano> gnu's not unix :)
20100524 18:00:45< Unnheulu|Laptop> ._.
20100524 18:00:48< Unnheulu|Laptop> Cool
20100524 18:01:09< Gambit> And smaller.
20100524 18:01:10< Unnheulu|Laptop> Isn't gnu like an organisation though :/
20100524 18:01:17< Gambit> yak/wildebeast
20100524 18:01:25< Gambit> Unnheulu|Laptop: Lies.
20100524 18:01:46< Unnheulu|Laptop> Ah, its linux
20100524 18:02:21< Kepakiano> is it possible to craft more than one units of the same type with one [unit] tag?
20100524 18:02:21< shadowmaster> Unnheulu|Laptop: FSF is an organization
20100524 18:02:28< shadowmaster> and it sponsor's GNU's development
20100524 18:02:31< Kepakiano> or do i have to use one tag for each unit?
20100524 18:02:35< shadowmaster> sponsors, even
20100524 18:02:41< Unnheulu|Laptop> One tag a unit
20100524 18:02:46< Kepakiano> kk, thx
20100524 18:02:55< shadowmaster> Kepakiano: the latter unless you used something more elaborate like a [while] loop
20100524 18:02:57< Unnheulu|Laptop> I thought linux was unix though...
20100524 18:03:16< shadowmaster> Unnheulu|Laptop: the Linux kernel implements Unixish interfaces
20100524 18:03:22< shadowmaster> Unnheulu|Laptop: GNU implements an Unixish userspace
20100524 18:03:28< shadowmaster> still not *the* Unix.
20100524 18:03:38< Gambit> Multix!
20100524 18:03:45< shadowmaster> it was Multics anyway
20100524 18:03:45< Unnheulu|Laptop> Whats the "hurd" then?
20100524 18:03:49 * Gambit just likes the word.
20100524 18:03:52< Gambit> shadowmaster: I know.
20100524 18:03:54< Unnheulu|Laptop> D/w I'll google it
20100524 18:03:59< shadowmaster> the recursive acronym is more of a philosophical pun anyway
20100524 18:04:20< shadowmaster> GNU is not a proprietary Unix, it's a free Unix replacement
20100524 18:04:43< shadowmaster> and Hurd is the kernel of the GNU operating system.
20100524 18:04:49< shadowmaster> in development hell since satan knows when.
20100524 18:05:11< shadowmaster> double-recursive acronym for some silliness related to their microkernel model
20100524 18:05:31-!- phlaem [~a@e178081079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 18:05:53< shadowmaster> while microkernels do exist and work in practice, I'm not sure what happens with Hurd that makes it rather...inexistent in production environments
20100524 18:06:09< shadowmaster> I don't think I want to know anyway. I'm happy with my GNU/Linux system, thanks ;)
20100524 18:06:30 * Unnheulu|Laptop just calls it Linux
20100524 18:06:35< shadowmaster> or Linux.
20100524 18:06:35< Unnheulu|Laptop> ;)
20100524 18:06:51< shadowmaster> I believe that the distinction is necessary when you bring GNU and Hurd into the conversation.
20100524 18:06:57< Unnheulu|Laptop> Huh, I don't get this
20100524 18:07:00< Unnheulu|Laptop> Debian can run on Hurd
20100524 18:07:03< shadowmaster> yes
20100524 18:07:03< Gambit> hystreni: still having trouble?
20100524 18:07:13< Unnheulu|Laptop> So its basically the same as Linux?
20100524 18:07:14< Gambit> no eras means that default is also missing.
20100524 18:07:19< shadowmaster> Unnheulu|Laptop: Debian can run on Hurd and the FreeBSD kernel
20100524 18:07:28< shadowmaster> so yes, it's the same thing except on a different kernel.
20100524 18:07:35< shadowmaster> in an ideal world the userspace will behave the same
20100524 18:07:47 * Unnheulu|Laptop thought FreeBSD was a linux distro, and BSD was a seperate os
20100524 18:07:59< shadowmaster> you have no idea how wrong you are
20100524 18:08:26< Unnheulu|Laptop> Possibly very
20100524 18:08:37< shadowmaster> FreeBSD is yet another derivative of the original BSD. Definitely unrelated to Linux, except that like Linux is relies a lot on GNU userspace components AFAIK.
20100524 18:08:50< shadowmaster> *it
20100524 18:10:07< Unnheulu|Laptop> Yay, it runs nano
20100524 18:10:24< Aethaeryn> Although FreeBSD may look like Linux on the user-level, just like OpenSolaris does, they both have clear under-the-hood distinctions
20100524 18:10:32< Aethaeryn> Commandline distinctions too, probably.
20100524 18:10:41< shadowmaster> well, FreeBSD doesn't use GNU coreutils (by default at least)
20100524 18:10:51< shadowmaster> that's a great difference to me, lazy GNU coreutils user.
20100524 18:11:09< shadowmaster> same goes to OpenSolaris
20100524 18:11:16< Aethaeryn> so Linux is probably the most true to GNU among the UNIX-like OSes
20100524 18:11:17< shadowmaster> (desktop environment? what desktop environment?)
20100524 18:11:24< shadowmaster> ;)
20100524 18:11:31< Aethaeryn> Whcich is probably why the FSF likes it, despite no one liking the name "GNU/Linux"
20100524 18:11:49< shadowmaster> Linux was more quickly usable back in the day
20100524 18:12:25< shadowmaster> IIRC Hurd's design wasn't even frozen back then.
20100524 18:13:01< Aethaeryn> Anyway, GNU is intended to be an operating system in the broader sense than people think about it in the Windows world, where whole industries have risen up to meet things Windows does *not* come with.
20100524 18:13:13< shadowmaster> also, Linux sounds cooler than BSD, doesn't it ;)
20100524 18:13:22< Aethaeryn> So that's how GNU can be an operating system even though it's 99.9% of the time used on someone else's kernel
20100524 18:13:31< hystreni> Gambit, im just gonna re compile it -_-
20100524 18:13:37< shadowmaster> (I'm on "BSD." "Wait, what?")
20100524 18:13:42< shadowmaster> </patheticlsdreference>
20100524 18:13:45-!- DiRaven [~diraven@158-227-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100524 18:14:11< Unnheulu|Laptop> Some day I want to phone up an isp complaining the internet doesn't work
20100524 18:14:19-!- DiRaven [~diraven@158-227-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 18:14:21< Unnheulu|Laptop> Try and stretch things out as long as possible
20100524 18:14:23< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: No, most people who are on a BSD say "I'm on a Mac" instead.
20100524 18:14:29< Unnheulu|Laptop> And then say, "I run MikeOS"
20100524 18:15:30< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: they don't know.
20100524 18:15:33< Kepakiano> why does wml accept spaces like "side = 3" and "x = 3", but not "type = foo"?^^
20100524 18:15:39< shadowmaster> it's Apple, we must buy it
20100524 18:16:12< Unnheulu|Laptop> Ooh...Apple...Shiny...Over-sized-iPhone...must buy!
20100524 18:16:25< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu|Laptop: NO. That is ignorant.
20100524 18:16:32< Aethaeryn> It's NOT an over-sized iPhone.
20100524 18:16:33< elias> Kepakiano: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SyntaxWML
20100524 18:16:36< Aethaeryn> It's an oversized iPod Touch
20100524 18:16:39< Aethaeryn> It can't make calls. :P
20100524 18:16:41< Unnheulu|Laptop> Heh
20100524 18:16:46< elias> "If there is whitespace, the attribute assignment is ignored."
20100524 18:16:52< Unnheulu|Laptop> iPod Touch can make calls
20100524 18:16:59< elias> (not sure if the wiki tells the truth though)
20100524 18:17:17< Aethaeryn> Tbh, the concept of the oversized part makes sense since you can do more with a bigger screen.
20100524 18:17:18< Unnheulu|Laptop> There is some app in the appstore that lets you
20100524 18:17:22< Aethaeryn> But, they executed it wrong.
20100524 18:17:40< shadowmaster> it's an Apple-branded tablet pc
20100524 18:17:50< Kepakiano> on "side" it ignores the whitespace, but the assignment is correct^^
20100524 18:17:53< Aethaeryn> Really bad aspect ratio for (modern, HD) TV shows
20100524 18:17:54< shadowmaster> so, for all I care, I don't buy it
20100524 18:18:02< Aethaeryn> *really* bad aspect ratio for movies.
20100524 18:18:02< shadowmaster> *Apple-branded and restricted
20100524 18:18:03< Unnheulu|Laptop> Its just not something I can carry round in my pockets, so why should I get it instead of my netbook?
20100524 18:18:12< Kepakiano> well, i'll change my programming style for wml, no whitespaces anymore^^
20100524 18:18:21< Aethaeryn> I mean, if you watch a widescreen movie on the iPad, you might as well put two iPhones next to each other.
20100524 18:18:24< Gambit> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=430053#p430053
20100524 18:18:28< Gambit> Confusing post is confusing.
20100524 18:18:29< shadowmaster> "it's not something that will let me install Debian on it, so why should I replace my laptop with it?"
20100524 18:18:30< Aethaeryn> Because it's literally that flatenned out.
20100524 18:18:34< Aethaeryn> That much of a letter box.
20100524 18:19:22< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: Amen. Except replace Debian with Fedora.
20100524 18:19:26< Unnheulu|Laptop> Computer components aren't that expensive
20100524 18:19:32< shadowmaster> on the other hand, I kind of wish Debian sounded like a illicit drug's name.
20100524 18:19:35< Unnheulu|Laptop> Eww, Fedora
20100524 18:19:42< Aethaeryn> Well, that's my reason. ;P
20100524 18:19:48< Unnheulu|Laptop> It refuses to allow the nvidia drivers
20100524 18:19:55< Aethaeryn> I'm actually probably going to buy an Apple laptop though when my computer goes.
20100524 18:19:57< shadowmaster> Unnheulu|Laptop: because they are not free.
20100524 18:20:06< Aethaeryn> There's two kinds of computers that are built sturdy these days: Apple computers and gaming computers.
20100524 18:20:08< shadowmaster> say "Eww, Debian" too. You know you want to
20100524 18:20:12< Aethaeryn> And the latter have awful battery life, around 2 hours or so
20100524 18:20:32< Unnheulu|Laptop> shadowmaster, so I need to be stuck with an 800x600 instead of a 3200x1080?
20100524 18:20:40< Aethaeryn> Honestly, all my WinPC people would be like "Eww, Apple" but really, it's just a sleek intel piece of hardware I can install Fedora on.
20100524 18:20:42< shadowmaster> yes, and no 2D or 3D acceleration.
20100524 18:20:45< Gambit> shadowmaster: Just invent a new drug.
20100524 18:20:50< Gambit> Name it Lebian.
20100524 18:20:52< shadowmaster> that's what you get for relying on proprietary crap.
20100524 18:20:56< Gambit> The masses will never know.
20100524 18:21:08< Gambit> They'll hear about Lebian first.
20100524 18:21:13< shadowmaster> that can bomb your computer when you least expect it. You know you can read some stories of that in my blog.
20100524 18:21:14< Unnheulu|Laptop> It's not like its going to kill me...
20100524 18:21:24< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: I have no 2D or 3D acceleration on my current laptop. I'm not missing anything.
20100524 18:21:26< shadowmaster> yes, it can, when you least expect it!
20100524 18:21:34< Aethaeryn> Tbh, that's how I found Wesnoth in '08 or so.
20100524 18:21:35< shadowmaster> the free drivers can do it but they'll warn you first ;)
20100524 18:21:38< Aethaeryn> (Maybe '07)
20100524 18:21:56< Aethaeryn> I tried to find a game that was both high quality and not graphics-intense on the Fedora repositories.
20100524 18:21:57< Unnheulu|Laptop> The free drivers limit the resolution though last I checked
20100524 18:22:01< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: reminds me of those times when I experimented with the i810fb driver
20100524 18:22:03< Aethaeryn> 10-20 tries later, I found Wesnoth.
20100524 18:22:06< Unnheulu|Laptop> (Although that was like Fedora 8 or 9)
20100524 18:22:09< shadowmaster> and a fbdev X server
20100524 18:22:14< Aethaeryn> Probably more like 20, since Wesnoth is toward the end alphabetically.
20100524 18:22:23< Unnheulu|Laptop> I don't remember why I disliked Debian
20100524 18:22:41 * Gambit amusing anecdote time
20100524 18:22:48< Aethaeryn> Debian is like Fedora, but it releases less frequently and has a lot less polish in those releases.
20100524 18:22:51< Gambit> Have any of you ever gotten drivers with spyware built in?
20100524 18:23:01< Aethaeryn> Philosophically *and* aesthetically they're rather similar. Both blue and all.
20100524 18:23:03< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: Debian lenny is rock solid, mind you.
20100524 18:23:13< shadowmaster> uptime >= 500 days already
20100524 18:23:16< Aethaeryn> And they have very strict free-software guidelines. Fedora's is a little stricter.
20100524 18:23:19< shadowmaster> even after upgrade and all.
20100524 18:23:30< Aethaeryn> Since I don't think they're allowed to mention the unofficial nonfree RPM Fusion repos in their documentation
20100524 18:23:54< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: Yes, Fedora is definitely meant for desktop use, not server use.
20100524 18:23:58< shadowmaster> Debian squeeze is also rather solid if we take X.org and KDE away from the mix.
20100524 18:24:03< Unnheulu|Laptop> I seem to recall some debian people complaining about xmoto being in their repository
20100524 18:24:15< Aethaeryn> You'd probalby want to use CentOS if you want an RPM-based server distro.
20100524 18:24:24< Aethaeryn> CentOS is just a really old Fedora, anyway ;)
20100524 18:24:39< shadowmaster> afk now anyway
20100524 18:24:49< Aethaeryn> Oh, I've noticed recently Fedora actually splits the kernel package.
20100524 18:24:51< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: um, really old Red Hat Linux?
20100524 18:25:01< Aethaeryn> There's now a "kernel-firmware"
20100524 18:25:05< shadowmaster> or RHEL, can't remember which
20100524 18:25:09< shadowmaster> also, Debian is doing that too.
20100524 18:25:13< Aethaeryn> I suppose to placate those FSF purists who can find a computer where they don't need firmware for.
20100524 18:25:32< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: Fedora -> RHEL (every two years or so) -> CentOS
20100524 18:25:51< Aethaeryn> You have to pay for RHEL, but because it's open sourced, you can basically use the *identical* product with the trademarked branding removed.
20100524 18:25:55< shadowmaster> "Ubuntu is a dumbed-down Debian Sid"
20100524 18:25:59< Aethaeryn> Thus, CentOS. No Red Hat logos or names.
20100524 18:26:22-!- shadowm_laptop [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit []
20100524 18:26:25< Aethaeryn> Though, tbh, I don't want to try CentOS. It's been a long release cycle, more than 2 years at this point.
20100524 18:26:43< Unnheulu|Laptop> shadowmaster, I haven't tried a better distro than xubuntu yet though :P
20100524 18:26:49< Aethaeryn> So they're using *really* old Fedora.
20100524 18:26:52< shadowmaster> your obsession with release cycles is leading to Debian getting s horter one for Squeeze now
20100524 18:26:59< Unnheulu|Laptop> Maybe its because of the dumbing down, but, I kinda don't care
20100524 18:27:10< shadowmaster> no idea how that will turn out for the regular Joes.
20100524 18:27:23< Aethaeryn> Good, maybe I'll virtualize Debian on my new computer sometime next year again.
20100524 18:27:49< shadowmaster> there are plans to freeze it something mid-2010 for the upcoming release
20100524 18:27:50< Aethaeryn> My computer is just a tad bit too weak for virtualization. The fan goes like a jet engine and, according to top at least, the CPU often goes *over* 100%.
20100524 18:27:57< Aethaeryn> So I'm starting to get scared to run VirtualBox.
20100524 18:28:28< Aethaeryn> Either software is getting gradually more demanding or my hardware is slowly failing. Probably both.
20100524 18:29:12< Gambit> over 100%?
20100524 18:29:16< Aethaeryn> Yes.
20100524 18:29:30< Aethaeryn> Maybe top is being inaccurate because it's a dual core or something...
20100524 18:29:38< Aethaeryn> Or maybe VirtualBox is overclocking my CPU
20100524 18:29:44< Gambit> :\
20100524 18:29:45< Aethaeryn> I honestly, have no idea.
20100524 18:30:06< Aethaeryn> Two days in a row, and I've seen it go as high as 140%!
20100524 18:30:23< Aethaeryn> Only in virtualbox. Compiling tops out around 99%
20100524 18:30:34< Unnheulu|Laptop> Is overclocking bad for the cpu?
20100524 18:30:42< Aethaeryn> Well, HPs like to overheat.
20100524 18:30:45< Aethaeryn> And they have really noisy fans.
20100524 18:31:05< Aethaeryn> Almost everyone I've seen who has had an HP laptop from around my year range (almost 2 at this point) has this problem.
20100524 18:31:14< Gambit> And you don't overclock anywhere near 140% of your processors original speed...
20100524 18:31:19< Aethaeryn> Even the newer touchsmart netbooks have noisy fans, there was one at my last installfest.
20100524 18:31:24-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100524 18:31:33< Unnheulu|Laptop> Aethaeryn, just as you said that, I noticed my lappy's fan
20100524 18:31:47< Aethaeryn> But really, my laptop fan usually goes off in only several situations:
20100524 18:31:48< Unnheulu|Laptop> It is kinda loud now you mention it...
20100524 18:31:59< Zarel> shadowmaster: Obfuscating cheat codes are trivial to achieve using hashes.
20100524 18:32:13< Aethaeryn> (1) Windows Vista (even if nothing else is up), (2) some intense games, (3) compiling, (4) Flash.
20100524 18:32:19< Aethaeryn> I would like to see Flash die a slow and painful death.
20100524 18:32:22< Aethaeryn> Slow and painful.
20100524 18:32:24< Unnheulu|Laptop> =]
20100524 18:32:25< Zarel> One-way encryption is fully secure and far easier than obfuscation.
20100524 18:32:29< Gambit> My harddrive is noisy.
20100524 18:32:37< Gambit> *+external
20100524 18:32:45< Unnheulu|Laptop> Aethaeryn, but, then there would be no Bloons Tower Defence! :P
20100524 18:32:51< Aethaeryn> HTML 5 it :P
20100524 18:32:58< Unnheulu|Laptop> Heh
20100524 18:33:00< Gambit> Her fans never come on except during booting.
20100524 18:33:02< Gambit> <3
20100524 18:33:04< Aethaeryn> Anyone want to see my new RPG campaign?
20100524 18:33:11 * Unnheulu|Laptop forgot about shockwave
20100524 18:33:15< Aethaeryn> Only the first scenario is ready, I'm not quite done the map for the much larger second scenario.
20100524 18:33:17< Unnheulu|Laptop> What happened to that?
20100524 18:33:24< Aethaeryn> And the first scenario is a prologue, rather short
20100524 18:33:28< elias> html5 probably also causes the fans to spin up :P
20100524 18:33:34< Gambit> Unnheulu|Laptop: flash ate it.
20100524 18:33:42-!- artisticdude [~9442274a@gateway/web/freenode/x-ezxxmsqcgyiysfon] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 18:33:48< Unnheulu|Laptop> Heya artisticdude
20100524 18:33:58< Gambit> Unnheulu|Laptop: Same company :P
20100524 18:33:58< Unnheulu|Laptop> artisticdude, you should use a real client :p
20100524 18:33:58< artisticdude> Hello
20100524 18:34:10< Aethaeryn> elias: but at least something open sourced can be optimised.
20100524 18:34:12< Gambit> Didn't you get a real client?
20100524 18:34:19< Unnheulu|Laptop> Gambit, hmm, wasn't shockwave bought by macromedia/the other way round?
20100524 18:34:24< artisticdude> Er... maybe?
20100524 18:34:24< Aethaeryn> You'd be surprised how much of a hog Firefox would have been if it wasn't open source...
20100524 18:34:27< artisticdude> no
20100524 18:34:29< Unnheulu|Laptop> (flash bought by it)
20100524 18:34:57< Gambit> Unnheulu|Laptop: Adobe owns macromedia.
20100524 18:35:03< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu|Laptop: There is only one real IRC client, irssi.
20100524 18:35:10< Gambit> wrong.
20100524 18:35:17< Gambit> There is pidgin!
20100524 18:35:18< artisticdude> I don't think it's for mac
20100524 18:35:28 * Gambit enjoys quassel.
20100524 18:35:28< Unnheulu|Laptop> Aethaeryn, I was using that whilst xchat was broken
20100524 18:35:41< Unnheulu|Laptop> I would've stuck with it, had the auto-join stuff worked
20100524 18:35:44< artisticdude> IIRC, Shadowmaster didn't think much of pidgin...
20100524 18:35:47< Aethaeryn> Gambit: pidgin is an IM client with IRC functionality tacked on. I could probably access IM protocols through irssi, but it wouldn't be as good as using a designed-for-IM client.
20100524 18:35:50< Aethaeryn> Get the analogy?
20100524 18:35:52< Unnheulu|Laptop> It was only doing the first line of the file
20100524 18:35:53-!- Necrosporus [~Xenius@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has quit [Quit: Necrosporus]
20100524 18:35:56< Aethaeryn> Because it's true.
20100524 18:36:07< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu|Laptop: I use autojoin stuff.
20100524 18:36:18< Unnheulu|Laptop> There's that file you need to make, right?
20100524 18:36:18< Aethaeryn> And auto ID
20100524 18:36:20< Aethaeryn> Your one mistake was not asking shadowmaster for help.
20100524 18:36:29< Unnheulu|Laptop> I didn't want to disturb him :P
20100524 18:36:32< Aethaeryn> You really just need to pastebin a guess until shadowmaster fixes it.
20100524 18:36:53< sevis> Aethaeryn: MSN through irssi works fine for me.
20100524 18:37:07-!- blademeld is now known as bladeafk
20100524 18:37:14< Aethaeryn> Anyway, I need two volunteers
20100524 18:37:19< Aethaeryn> Shouldn't take more than 15-20 turns.
20100524 18:37:21< Gambit> MSN needs to use XMPP
20100524 18:37:26< Gambit> :@
20100524 18:37:28< Unnheulu|Laptop> I have 1.9 on my lappy
20100524 18:37:31< Aethaeryn> I need to test scenario 1 before I can code scenario 2
20100524 18:37:58< Aethaeryn> I use 1.8 for my MP stuff (excluding Thunderstone, which won't be ready for a while) because no one plays MP in devel versions since 1.3 :'(
20100524 18:38:17< Gambit> AOL needs to go back to XMPP
20100524 18:38:21< Gambit> google needs to stay on XMPP
20100524 18:38:22< Unnheulu|Laptop> I can remember 1.3 feeling much cooler than 1.2
20100524 18:38:23< Kepakiano> hm, when I let a unit say something, why is the icon displayed, but not the portrait?
20100524 18:38:24< Gambit> and YIM can go die.
20100524 18:38:34< Unnheulu|Laptop> But being displeased by 1.5 and 1.7
20100524 18:38:41< Aethaeryn> Everyone forgets the fifth one, Gambit 
20100524 18:38:57< Aethaeryn> I know there was a fifth obscure one when I used gaim (yes, gaim) all the time.
20100524 18:39:14< Aethaeryn> Which no one used except for people who connected to 3-4 ones with gaim :P
20100524 18:39:25< Aethaeryn> I want to say "SQL" but that's database software ;)
20100524 18:39:31< Gambit> Gaim == pidgin
20100524 18:39:45< Gambit> Aethaeryn: It can use XMPP or die.
20100524 18:39:55< Aethaeryn> I was just using perspective on how long ago it was since I last IMed
20100524 18:40:05< sevis> Gambit, what's so good about XMPP?
20100524 18:40:08< Gambit> Freenode should use XMPP!
20100524 18:40:09< Gambit> XD
20100524 18:40:11< Gambit> lololol
20100524 18:40:13< Aethaeryn> ICQ
20100524 18:40:15< Aethaeryn> ICQ
20100524 18:40:21< Unnheulu|Laptop> Isn't xmpp that music player...
20100524 18:40:23< Unnheulu|Laptop> I guess not
20100524 18:40:29< Gambit> sevis: Coldfsuon comes with a built in XMPP gateway :$
20100524 18:40:32< Gambit> lol
20100524 18:40:34< Aethaeryn> Before Google Talk. Back when Google was a search engine that was expanding into maps and email (omg, never delete!)
20100524 18:40:49< sevis> ICQ is still popular in Russia, although I have to agree it's pretty horrible.
20100524 18:40:53< Aethaeryn> (I need one of those invites! OMGOMGOMG!)
20100524 18:40:56< Gambit> If they all got on one protocol it'd be nice
20100524 18:41:10< Aethaeryn> But yeah, even back when Gmail was being released (spring 2004?)
20100524 18:41:31< Aethaeryn> ICQ was basically just used by people who were connecting to the Big Four (pre-Google) on gaim
20100524 18:42:16< Aethaeryn> Back then, it was just MSN, AIM (with a netscape email!), ICQ and Yahoo
20100524 18:42:28< Gambit> sevis: Anyone can run their own XMPP server and talk to anyone else.
20100524 18:42:32< Aethaeryn> Both Yahoo and ICQ didn't really have anyone who didn't have at least one of the big two.
20100524 18:42:51< Aethaeryn> Really, even today, you basically just need an MSN and an AIM to reach most people, unless the person is like me and abandonned all their emails for GMail years ago.
20100524 18:43:33< sevis> Gambit: Lately, I still prefer IRC... Although I've not gotten around to running my own server just yet.
20100524 18:43:42< Aethaeryn> No one from is joining the server to play my game :(
20100524 18:43:47< Gambit> sevis: does IRC do cross server chatting?
20100524 18:43:51< Aethaeryn> I need to resort to something else...
20100524 18:43:51< sevis> I'm guessing XMPP is open, which is nice.
20100524 18:43:59< sevis> Gambit: Do you need cross server chatting?
20100524 18:44:09< Gambit> *yes*
20100524 18:44:16< Aethaeryn> Gambit: I will uninstall Adobe Flash *and* Adobe Reader from my computer if you don't play my short game. :P
20100524 18:44:20< Aethaeryn> Mwahahaha.
20100524 18:44:26 * Gambit wants to be able to IM anyone in the world
20100524 18:44:31< Gambit> and not have 50 gazillion accounts
20100524 18:44:43-!- DiRaven [~diraven@158-227-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100524 18:45:17< Aethaeryn> It is a dark year indeed for Adobe fanboys.
20100524 18:45:22< Gambit> XMPP is like email, but it's instant messaging.
20100524 18:45:27< Aethaeryn> With both Apple fanboys and Linux fanboys hating on Flash.
20100524 18:45:28-!- DiRaven [~diraven@158-227-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 18:45:41< sevis> Yeah, true. Well, maybe I'll switch to XMPP, then...
20100524 18:45:47< Aethaeryn> Yes, Apple and Linux fanboys can now agree on something that doesn't involve Microsoft.
20100524 18:46:10< sevis> Does that mean that you can use your GTalk account to talk to people on non-GTalk XMPP servers?
20100524 18:46:15< Unnheulu|Laptop> Whats wrong with flash...
20100524 18:46:16< Gambit> sevis: Yep.
20100524 18:46:30< sevis> Then /me supports it.
20100524 18:46:37< Gambit> Unnheulu|Laptop: you can't make anything like it without getting sued.
20100524 18:47:07< Gambit> you *must* buy the software.
20100524 18:47:11< Gambit> afaik there are no alternatives.
20100524 18:47:17< Gambit> for making flash content
20100524 18:47:53< Gambit> (^afaik)
20100524 18:48:25 * Gambit doesn't know much because he happily uses all this proprietary stuff.
20100524 18:49:41-!- Aethaery1 [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 18:49:53-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100524 18:50:02-!- Aethaery1 is now known as Aethaeryn
20100524 18:50:09< Gambit> sevis: AOL used XMPP for a little while.
20100524 18:50:12< Aethaeryn> Adobe took out my wifi... It's a conspiracy.
20100524 18:50:59-!- wooj [~wooj@unaffiliated/wooj] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 18:51:57< sevis> I'm not much of an AOL user, don't have many friends in the US.
20100524 18:52:02< sevis> Any, anymore, actually.
20100524 18:52:26< Aethaeryn> It's funny, actually... How MSN is worldwide and AOL is US.
20100524 18:52:41< Aethaeryn> Being someone who lived 5 years overseas, I had to have both ;)
20100524 18:52:48< Aethaeryn> Thus gaim.
20100524 18:53:13< Gambit> *pidgin
20100524 18:53:23< Aethaeryn> No.
20100524 18:53:30< Aethaeryn> Pidgin didn't exist back then.
20100524 18:53:45< Gambit> gaim was just renamed.
20100524 18:53:55< Aethaeryn> And I basically gave up using IM for IRC years ago.
20100524 18:54:27< Aethaeryn> So if I was telling a story about 2001, I'd be using Mozilla Suite not Firefox.
20100524 18:54:32< Aethaeryn> Or rather, more appropriately...
20100524 18:54:38< Gambit> hmm looks like facebook chat uses XMPP
20100524 18:55:13< Aethaeryn> I could tell about me using that rather unstable featureless alpha called "Phoenix" that definitely would not be as popular as Mozilla Suite because it was missing all the cool s/bloat/features like a built-in HTML editor.
20100524 18:55:59< Aethaeryn> In this story, it would be Phoenix, not Firebird or Firefox.
20100524 18:56:18< Gambit> In 2001 I was figuring out how to change the wallpaper.
20100524 18:56:23< Aethaeryn> Because calling it Firefox would be like using a cell phone in 1970. Anachronism.
20100524 18:57:17< Gambit> The internet was a mysterious beast we were not allowed to use more than a half hour a week in computer class.
20100524 18:57:37< Aethaeryn> Heh, my dad worked with computers.
20100524 18:57:46< Aethaeryn> I never learned anything from formal education, I just played around.
20100524 18:58:16< Aethaeryn> Oh, and, sorry social conservatives. Playing around on the Internet unsupervised does *not* make everyone a porn addict or "hacker"
20100524 18:58:19< Gambit> ^ yep
20100524 18:58:25< Gambit> errr
20100524 18:58:28< Gambit> two lines up
20100524 18:58:34< Aethaeryn> I find porn rather absurd.
20100524 18:58:41< Gambit> though I guess the next line is agreeable.
20100524 18:59:15< Aethaeryn> If you want to see women with ridiculously huge boobs that are obviously both fake and impractical, then I guess porn is for you.
20100524 18:59:24< Aethaeryn> Honestly, there has to be some kind of temperment predisposition.
20100524 18:59:39< Aethaeryn> I like women, just not porn stars.
20100524 18:59:49< Aethaeryn> Anyway, before we go too far on a tangent.
20100524 18:59:55< Aethaeryn> Gambit: If you were born after 1990, you were born after Windows 3.0 and thus in a world where all home computers had GUIs by default.
20100524 19:00:09< Gambit> Yes.
20100524 19:00:17< Aethaeryn> If you were born after 1991, Linux has always existed.
20100524 19:00:30< Gambit> First time I saw a computer was 96
20100524 19:00:31< wooj> Ew people really WERE born after 1990 and are adults now
20100524 19:00:32< wooj> ugh
20100524 19:00:34< wooj> now I feel old
20100524 19:00:39< Gambit> first time I could touch one was 98
20100524 19:00:45 * wooj tells people to get off his lawn.
20100524 19:00:49< Gambit> LOL
20100524 19:00:50< Unnheulu|Laptop> Our new government is already making cuts
20100524 19:01:06< Aethaeryn> I was always using computers.
20100524 19:01:22< Aethaeryn> My first experience was with Win 95, but my grandmom had Win 3.1...
20100524 19:01:28< wooj> Aethaeryn, well, same, but I started with Commodore 64s.
20100524 19:01:40< Aethaeryn> With an ancient printer as well as Wolfenstein 3D
20100524 19:01:55< Gambit> Jedi Knight Dark Forces 2 <3
20100524 19:01:56< Aethaeryn> Ancient printer as in it had those dots on either side you'd have to rip off.
20100524 19:02:01< Aethaeryn> And it had a floppy disk virus! XD
20100524 19:02:07-!- Unnheulu|Laptop [~ieuan@cpc5-pnth2-0-0-cust800.5-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20100524 19:02:07< wooj> Aethaeryn, I rode my bike to the shop the day Win95 came out, cause we'd preordered it.  Then the install CD didnt work right so I had to call MS tech support and manually unpack CAB files.
20100524 19:02:09< Aethaeryn> That's how viruses spread.
20100524 19:02:16< Aethaeryn> You copied data between computers on floppies.
20100524 19:02:34< wooj> or download files from BBS's.
20100524 19:02:51< Aethaeryn> Anyway, I've always been more mature for my age mentally. (Though definitely not physically/socially... I spent all my character points in one area.)
20100524 19:02:59< Gambit> What's interesting though Aethaeryn is that computers have not always had guis for me because in 99 we got this ancient... dos... thing... at a yard sale.
20100524 19:03:16< Aethaeryn> So even though I was born in 1990 I probably have computer experiences equivalent to those born in the late 1980s
20100524 19:03:19< Gambit> So there!
20100524 19:03:27< Aethaeryn> Remember, we were all using computers in the early 1990s if you're born in the late 1980s :P
20100524 19:03:52< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Actaully, for me, it's been a little opposite of most people.
20100524 19:04:06< Aethaeryn> The older I get, the more interesting the (Linux) command-only mode gets.
20100524 19:04:09< wooj> LOAD "FROGGER",8,1
20100524 19:04:29< Aethaeryn> and I don't mean mc, either.
20100524 19:04:49< Aethaeryn> Though I suppose if emacs could run mc, it'd be almost a complete operating system.
20100524 19:04:52< Aethaeryn> Just missing a text editor.
20100524 19:05:16< SgtFlame|Zen> lol
20100524 19:05:18< wooj> there's vi for emacs.
20100524 19:05:26< Aethaeryn> Oh, you can run vi within emacs.
20100524 19:05:29< Aethaeryn> Since you can launch bash.
20100524 19:05:31< Gambit> Aethaeryn: It has no painting program!
20100524 19:05:47< Aethaeryn> For about two weeks, I was bored enough to run my irssi through emacs.
20100524 19:05:57< Aethaeryn> But it had a slight lag and wasn't quite as comfortable as GNOME terminal.
20100524 19:06:04< elias> switch vi's syntax coloring to XPM and you have a paint program
20100524 19:06:28< Gambit> hehe
20100524 19:07:31< Gambit> All this talk of ancient computers reminds me...
20100524 19:07:41< Aethaeryn> vi isn't ancient.
20100524 19:07:52-!- Unnheulu|Laptop [~ieuan@cpc5-pnth2-0-0-cust800.5-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 19:08:00< Gambit> Anyone here ever played Addy Junior?
20100524 19:08:10< Aethaeryn> If vi's ancient but still used today, then how ancient is a car? :P
20100524 19:08:15< Gambit> Because I distinctly remember everything about the game, but according to google it does not exist.
20100524 19:09:02-!- Necrosporus [~Xenius@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 19:11:15< Unnheulu|Laptop> Eww
20100524 19:11:26< Unnheulu|Laptop> Two 10 year old boys raped a girl
20100524 19:11:35< Gambit> cue bbc link
20100524 19:11:44< Unnheulu|Laptop> I'll try and find one then :P
20100524 19:12:34< Unnheulu|Laptop> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8692223.stm
20100524 19:12:48< Gambit> lol @today's unskippable
20100524 19:12:58< Aethaeryn> so
20100524 19:13:06< Aethaeryn> anyone want to play a 10-25 turn game?
20100524 19:13:18< Gambit> is it Battlefield Bad Company 2?
20100524 19:13:19-!- Valkier [~IceChat7@c-174-55-104-2.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 19:13:21< Aethaeryn> scenario one of my MP campaign; I want to test it twice today.
20100524 19:13:22< Unnheulu|Laptop> I said, I'm on svn :P
20100524 19:13:43< Aethaeryn> Once just straight through, then again when we do a transition to part two
20100524 19:14:00< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu|Laptop: Sorry, but I'm not doing SVN... Good luck getting 3 people together on an SVN MP
20100524 19:14:10< Aethaeryn> And good luck not encountering bugs... :P
20100524 19:14:15< Unnheulu|Laptop> Heh
20100524 19:14:18< Aethaeryn> I checked a week ago and it was still way too unstable.
20100524 19:14:27< Unnheulu|Laptop> It's getting better
20100524 19:14:44< Unnheulu|Laptop> Last few versions I have don't crash
20100524 19:15:04-!- Unnheulu|Laptop [~ieuan@cpc5-pnth2-0-0-cust800.5-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20100524 19:15:07< Aethaeryn> Sorry, when I playtest something I don't want to double-debug: debug my own stuff *and* the game itself.
20100524 19:15:47< Gambit> Allegedly raped.
20100524 19:15:48< Kepakiano> what's the easiest way to implement a "foo has seen bar"-event?
20100524 19:15:51< Gambit> He left. :\
20100524 19:16:16< Gambit> Kepakiano: event name=sighted
20100524 19:16:17< Gambit> I think
20100524 19:16:25< Gambit> see the reference WML for the [event] tag.
20100524 19:17:00< Kepakiano> nice :)
20100524 19:17:30< Gambit> "Those squirrels were making monkey noises"
20100524 19:18:26< Kepakiano> reference tells me to better use a filter_vision
20100524 19:19:09< Gambit> today's loading ready run is turning out to be quite funny too.
20100524 19:20:41< sevis> Would anyone happen to know why this (http://pastebin.com/xHbtKZ6p) segfaults? (C code)
20100524 19:21:09< Gambit> Aethaeryn: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/loadingreadyrun/1726-Installation-Anxiety-2010
20100524 19:22:12-!- artisticdude [~9442274a@gateway/web/freenode/x-ezxxmsqcgyiysfon] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20100524 19:24:42< sevis> Wait, no, that *doesn't* segfault... Wtf? O.o
20100524 19:24:51< Gambit> Whoa.
20100524 19:24:59< Gambit> The airforce uses the ps3 otherOS feature
20100524 19:25:00< Gambit> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/100631-Air-Force-Might-Be-Troubled-by-PS3-Other-OS-Removal
20100524 19:25:20< Valkier> mmhmm
20100524 19:25:29< Valkier> They use it to crack codes or something
20100524 19:25:37< Gambit> What a waste of ps3s.
20100524 19:25:45< Valkier> Right...
20100524 19:28:08< Aethaeryn> Old news.
20100524 19:28:28< Aethaeryn> When money isn't an issue, you can cluster whatever the hell you want.
20100524 19:28:36< Aethaeryn> Such as 100 Mac Minis or something.
20100524 19:29:07< Gambit> Apparently clustering ps3s is (at the moment) the cheapest way to get massive amounts of processing power.
20100524 19:30:23< Aethaeryn> Not anymore.
20100524 19:30:47< Aethaeryn> But yes, consoles are generally loss-leaders against expensive games.
20100524 19:30:58< Valkier> Now they just get 10 year olds to hold electrodes and feed them Amp.
20100524 19:31:08< Aethaeryn> So really, you shouldn't be paying $10 more for the PS3/360 version of a game than for the Wii or PC version (okay, maybe pay more than the Wii version)
20100524 19:31:22< Aethaeryn> But you're actually paying back the true cost of the consoles
20100524 19:31:37< Gambit> well
20100524 19:31:42< Gambit> now maybe.
20100524 19:31:46< Valkier> Too bad games currently have no appeal.
20100524 19:31:52< Gambit> 360 was making money on each box before.
20100524 19:32:02< Gambit> Until sony dropped their price
20100524 19:32:10< Gambit> and M$ had to match
20100524 19:33:36-!- Unnheulu|Laptop [~ieuan@cpc5-pnth2-0-0-cust800.5-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 19:33:47-!- Unnheulu|Laptop [~ieuan@cpc5-pnth2-0-0-cust800.5-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100524 19:34:19< Aethaeryn> Valkier: I'm sorry, Wesnoth has appeal
20100524 19:34:40< Valkier> On consoles, ya ninny.
20100524 19:34:52< Valkier> I can find plenty on the omputer.
20100524 19:34:54< Valkier> computer*
20100524 19:35:21< Valkier> My 360 is essentially a very eccentric DvD player.
20100524 19:37:48< Gambit> I know this is a little late now.
20100524 19:37:53-!- DiRaven [~diraven@158-227-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100524 19:37:55< Gambit> But you should ha
20100524 19:38:04< Gambit> nevermind.
20100524 19:38:20< Gambit> I guess if you don't play games on it you don't have to worry about it melting.
20100524 19:38:20-!- Gallaecio [~Gallaecio@232.158.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 19:38:25< Gambit> So that's good!
20100524 19:38:30< Valkier> lol
20100524 19:38:38< Valkier> PS3 doesn't have Halo.
20100524 19:38:46< Valkier> Or Mass Effect.
20100524 19:38:51< Gambit> PS3 doesn't need halo.
20100524 19:38:55< Valkier> lol
20100524 19:38:58-!- DiRaven [~diraven@158-227-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 19:38:58< Gambit> Or or mass effect.
20100524 19:39:02< Valkier> Yeah... It really did.
20100524 19:39:07< Gambit> Nope.
20100524 19:39:12< Valkier> Yes. Why would it need award winning games?
20100524 19:39:13< Gambit> It has KZ2
20100524 19:39:27< Valkier> Lol-Zone 2?
20100524 19:39:33< Gambit> Technically speaking 360 doesn't have Halo.
20100524 19:39:35< Gambit> :D
20100524 19:39:45< Valkier> My 360 Halo disk begs to differ.
20100524 19:40:06< Valkier> So technically, you just realized where this argument was heading and are now trying to backtrack.
20100524 19:40:36< Gambit> Alright then tell me what's so awesome about Halo.
20100524 19:40:50< Valkier> It's responsible for the current generation of shooters.
20100524 19:40:56< Gambit> HA
20100524 19:41:02< Valkier> Fun characters and voice acting.
20100524 19:41:11< Valkier> Name me one character from KZ2.
20100524 19:41:11< Gambit> Sev was fun!
20100524 19:41:31< Gambit> ^Sev
20100524 19:41:44< Valkier> Do you own a 360?
20100524 19:41:44< Gambit> Garza was an asshole.
20100524 19:42:12< Gambit> Valkier: I saved my money for the unmelty console with better hardware and that doesn't give free microphones to everyone.
20100524 19:42:21< Valkier> lol
20100524 19:42:28< Valkier> But you know who Master Chief is, right?
20100524 19:42:33< Gambit> Yes.
20100524 19:42:37< Valkier> I rest my case.
20100524 19:42:39< Gambit> You know there was Halo before xbox right?
20100524 19:42:43< Gambit> Right?
20100524 19:42:57< Valkier> Before Combat Evolved? No, there was not.
20100524 19:43:12< Gambit> Tribes 2 > Halo 2
20100524 19:43:25< Valkier> However, you don't even own the console and you know at least one character from that series.
20100524 19:43:39< Valkier> Soooo
20100524 19:43:40< Gambit> Valkier: You know Mario right?
20100524 19:43:52< Aethaeryn> Gambit: I think that HELPS his point.
20100524 19:43:53< Valkier> I've owned gameboys ya ninny.
20100524 19:43:58-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 19:44:04< Valkier> And yes it does support me.
20100524 19:44:13< Valkier> You just compared one very recognizable game character to another.
20100524 19:44:18< Valkier> Meaning they're synonamous.
20100524 19:44:25< Aethaeryn> analagous
20100524 19:44:30< Gambit> But Halo is not unique to the xbox.
20100524 19:44:30< Valkier> I don't know who that hell Sven is, but that was the name of a Voltron character.
20100524 19:44:44< Valkier> Um.. Tribes 2 isn't even made by the same people.
20100524 19:44:49< Aethaeryn> Halo is on PC *now* years later, in a not-as-great version
20100524 19:44:53< Valkier> So you're kinda just talking out of your ass at the moment.
20100524 19:45:19< Valkier> Nobody bought Halo PC. :-P
20100524 19:45:42< [Relic]> Hello :)
20100524 19:45:48< Valkier> Howdy!
20100524 19:45:51< Gambit> So because there aren't any notable playstation mascots the console must suck?
20100524 19:46:02< Gambit> s/notable/known to you/
20100524 19:46:11< Valkier> I'm saying that there are no notable games to it outside of a couple.
20100524 19:46:21< Valkier> You guys couldn't even keep the Final Fantasy franchise to yourselves.
20100524 19:46:25< Gambit> ROFL
20100524 19:46:28< Valkier> Not that XIII looks good anyhow.
20100524 19:46:36< Gambit> It looks great on ps3
20100524 19:46:43< Valkier> I mean it's a bad game.
20100524 19:46:52< Gambit> They had to dumb it down for those of us without blu ray and forced harddrives.
20100524 19:47:03< Valkier> I'm sure that's the reason.
20100524 19:47:06< Gambit> Had to design it around disc swapping.
20100524 19:47:11< Gambit> So yeah it sucks gameplay.
20100524 19:47:18< Valkier> You do know that more often than not, the 360 version of games looks much better.
20100524 19:47:26< Gambit> Because people design for 360
20100524 19:47:28< Gambit> and port to ps3
20100524 19:47:38< Gambit> when you design a game bottom up for ps3 it looks better than anything on 360
20100524 19:47:51< Valkier> Do.. they had to dumb down a game.. to design it FOR the 360?
20100524 19:47:57< Valkier> Do you want to try that again?
20100524 19:48:00< Aethaeryn> BOTH CONSOLES SUCK.
20100524 19:48:12< Aethaeryn> They're both many years old, using really old hardware and probably won't get replaced for years.
20100524 19:48:16< Gambit> Valkier: no
20100524 19:48:18< Aethaeryn> Any high-end PC > a console in terms of experience.
20100524 19:48:19< Gambit> you just went from graphics
20100524 19:48:20< Gambit> to gameplay
20100524 19:48:22< Gambit> to graphics
20100524 19:48:36< Valkier> No, I started at game quality.
20100524 19:48:39< Valkier> You jumped around.
20100524 19:48:39< Gambit> They dumbed down the gameplay because they had to keep disc swapping 360 in mind.
20100524 19:48:50< Valkier> I don't care how XIII looks or plays. I care about the 28 hour long tutorial.
20100524 19:49:02< Gambit> *disc swapping*
20100524 19:49:10< Aethaeryn> BOTH consoles are the anti-computer, full of copy-protection. The reason there's so much annoying DRM on PC games now is to try to console-ify PC games again.
20100524 19:49:35< Valkier> How do you figure disc swapping as anything to do with poor story and game planning?
20100524 19:49:38< Gambit> They could have made an entirely free roaming game with 50gb of resources if they'd have kept it only on ps3
20100524 19:49:39< Aethaeryn> Huge profit margins, low piracy, no modding, lots of DLC you have to *pay* for (which would be worse than free unofficial mods anyway)
20100524 19:49:57< Gambit> Valkier: You can't do a big beautiful free roam game on multiple discs.
20100524 19:50:00< Valkier> I have to assume you're just making this up.
20100524 19:50:13< Valkier> Because nobody could possibly say what you're saying and be serious.
20100524 19:50:31< Gambit> Unless of course they know what they're talking about. :o
20100524 19:50:36< Valkier> And I say this, because a game called Oblivion exists.
20100524 19:50:38< Valkier> And Fallout 3.
20100524 19:50:42< Valkier> Sooo yeah...
20100524 19:51:04< Valkier> But nice try.
20100524 19:51:24< Gambit> I said beautiful.
20100524 19:51:29< Valkier> lol
20100524 19:51:38< Valkier> I'm done. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
20100524 19:52:32< Gambit> Says the one who schizophrenically switches to the topic that suits his side best without giving the other guy time to speak.
20100524 19:52:54< Valkier> So photoshop made an App, Aethaeryn.
20100524 19:52:58< Valkier> And you didn't tell me.
20100524 19:53:12 * Gambit would rather play hardball with chris mathews than argue with that kind of person.
20100524 19:53:16< Valkier> Why do you hate me so?
20100524 19:54:05< Kepakiano> if i filter x's and y's like: x = 32, 33 y = 32, 33, would this describe the coordinates (32, 32) and (33, 33)?
20100524 19:54:19< Gambit> Kepakiano: Watch your spaces.
20100524 19:54:22< Gambit> :)
20100524 19:54:25< Gambit> But yes.
20100524 19:54:30< Kepakiano> ok, thanks :D
20100524 19:55:10< Kepakiano> can't get those spaces out of my code, it just looks so sqeezed without them^^
20100524 19:55:23< Gambit> Line breaks ftw :D
20100524 19:56:00< Gambit> Though that only helps vertical squeezing.
20100524 19:56:22< Kepakiano> yay, it works :)
20100524 19:56:28< Gambit> Kepakiano: Do you indent?
20100524 19:56:31 * Gambit shudders
20100524 19:56:41< Kepakiano> i indent a lot
20100524 19:56:55< Kepakiano> my favourite language is python :D
20100524 19:59:04 * Valkier notes just about everyone in this room is smarter than him
20100524 19:59:15< Valkier> Code people..
20100524 19:59:51< Kepakiano> damn Oo
20100524 20:00:06< Kepakiano> does "moveto" only check the last field of the movement?^^
20100524 20:00:22< Gambit> Half of us would give up have our coding knowledge for half of your art knowledge though.
20100524 20:00:25< Gambit> Kepakiano: Yes.
20100524 20:00:35< Gambit> However you can filter the position they moved from.
20100524 20:00:38< Valkier> Pfft. I can barely get a line down.
20100524 20:00:44< Gambit> By using x,y=$x2,$y2
20100524 20:00:57< Gambit> There is no way to check movethrough
20100524 20:01:03< Gambit> It's on the list for wesnoth 2.0
20100524 20:01:06< Gambit> :)
20100524 20:01:18< Gambit> (i.e. probably never)
20100524 20:01:24< Valkier> Wesnoth should get 3D graphics!
20100524 20:01:28< Kepakiano> wesnoth 2.0 won't be ready before friday, will it? :D
20100524 20:01:32< Valkier> Then I can do the spriting!
20100524 20:01:52< Gambit> Valkier: I thought you didn't like the fork?
20100524 20:01:53< Gambit> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=29679
20100524 20:02:04< Gambit> Kepakiano: No.
20100524 20:02:10< Valkier> I still have no clue what fork is.
20100524 20:02:15< Kepakiano> too bad^^
20100524 20:02:21< Gambit> But by the end of the summer there is good probability that we'll have persistent variables!
20100524 20:02:27 * Gambit starts babbling excitedly.
20100524 20:02:27< zookeeper> Gambit, ah, i didn't even remember that $x2,$y2 thing anymore. not that i probably have much use for it anywhere, but still it's a nice little feature.
20100524 20:03:24< Gambit> Was it added to onrecruit yet?
20100524 20:03:31< Gambit> I don't think I ever filed a request for that.
20100524 20:03:37< Gambit> I just asked and someone said yes they would.
20100524 20:03:54< Kepakiano> is filtering x > something possible?
20100524 20:04:03< Gambit> Kepakiano: With variables.
20100524 20:04:08< Kepakiano> hmhmhm ok
20100524 20:04:16< Gambit> Acutally I dunno if FAI would let you do that or not.
20100524 20:04:34< zookeeper> good question
20100524 20:04:49< Gambit> But you could do x = lowest x-highest x
20100524 20:05:02< Gambit> So if you wanted x greater than 23 on a map that's 60 hexes 
20100524 20:05:04< Gambit> you'd do
20100524 20:05:07< Gambit> x=23-60
20100524 20:05:12< Valkier> Might be cool if Wesnoth could be rendered like Final Fantasy Tactics or Disgaea.
20100524 20:05:21-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 20:05:21< Kepakiano> good idea
20100524 20:05:56< Gambit> though that'd be greater than or equal to
20100524 20:06:39< Gambit> Kepakiano: Why "before friday"?
20100524 20:06:53< Gambit> I've heard rumors of programming classes that use Wesnoth...
20100524 20:07:02< Gambit> That'd be so cool :(
20100524 20:07:03< Kepakiano> the scenario is part of a birthday present :D
20100524 20:07:08< Gambit> Ah cool.
20100524 20:07:24< Valkier> At least nobody uses it for art.
20100524 20:07:26< Valkier> Wait...
20100524 20:07:58< Gambit> WML would make a great bit of software for an Intro To Programming class.
20100524 20:08:10< Gambit> s/WML/Wesnoth
20100524 20:08:21< Gambit> or s/bit of software/language
20100524 20:08:33< Gambit> It'd definitly be better than Alice.
20100524 20:08:55< Gambit> Which you have to pronounce with all the hatred you can muster.
20100524 20:09:27< Gambit> Since intro to programming is only about concepts and not specific syntax.
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20100524 20:12:46< Kepakiano> hey, that was intuitive :)
20100524 20:13:24< Kepakiano> x=11-17,11-17,11-17,11-17 y = 16,17,18,19 pairs up every y with x=11-17 :)
20100524 20:13:54< Gambit> Wouldn't that be x=11-17 y=16-19?
20100524 20:13:59< Gambit> That defines a box.
20100524 20:14:09< Kepakiano> does it?
20100524 20:14:11< Valkier> brb. Gotta restart.
20100524 20:14:15< Gambit> It should.
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20100524 20:14:17< Kepakiano> that would be even more intuitive :D
20100524 20:14:36< Gambit> Well not so much a box since we're on hexes.
20100524 20:14:52< Gambit> It's like a rectangle cut with those weird kiddy scissors that scrapbookers like.
20100524 20:15:14< Kepakiano> ^^
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20100524 20:16:17< Gambit> And that's why the database hates welsh people.
20100524 20:16:29< Gambit> Oh hey Unnheulu.
20100524 20:16:38 * Unnheulu|Laptop smirks
20100524 20:17:04< Gambit> I'm just kidding. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrphanedPunchline
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20100524 20:19:32< Gambit> $10 says he's reading the logs right now.
20100524 20:21:45< Kepakiano> hurr durr
20100524 20:22:13< Kepakiano> [set_variable] name=foo value=1 [/set_variable]
20100524 20:22:26< Kepakiano> is that the right way to initialize a variable=
20100524 20:23:46< Gambit> variables don't have to be initialized.
20100524 20:23:51< Gambit> But yeah.
20100524 20:24:09< Gambit> referencing an unintialized variable just gives an empty string (AFAIK)
20100524 20:24:36< Kepakiano> reference says so too
20100524 20:24:47< Kepakiano> {VARIABLE foo 1} does the same?
20100524 20:24:51< Gambit> WML is awesome like that.
20100524 20:24:54< Gambit> Kepakiano: Yes.
20100524 20:24:58< Kepakiano> ok
20100524 20:25:25< Gambit> And if you want to do something other than setting you use {VARIABLE_OP foo operation bar}
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20100524 20:25:48< Kepakiano> okay :)
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20100524 20:26:24< Gambit> Unnheulu|Laptop: Hello :)
20100524 20:26:36< Unnheulu|Laptop> 'ello
20100524 20:29:08< Unnheulu|Laptop> shadowmaster, I notice you didn't tell shikadibot the meaning of cfml :p
20100524 20:30:08< Gambit> I know right?
20100524 20:30:24< Unnheulu|Laptop> Mm?
20100524 20:30:28< Gambit> To be fair she doesn't know what php is either.
20100524 20:30:55< Gambit> Even though it is (somehow) more popular.
20100524 20:31:23< Gambit> popular != better
20100524 20:31:36< Gambit> But that's a discussion for another place.
20100524 20:31:56< Gambit> like #coldfusionpwnzorsphp
20100524 20:32:10< Unnheulu|Laptop> Anyways
20100524 20:32:15< Unnheulu|Laptop> Finished reading the logs
20100524 20:32:23< Gambit> haha
20100524 20:35:46< Kepakiano> meh, setting the variable doesn't work as i want
20100524 20:36:51< Gambit> What's going on?
20100524 20:37:49< Kepakiano> checking works via variable and equals and so on
20100524 20:38:00< Kepakiano> but set_variable doesnt =/
20100524 20:38:11< Kepakiano> i'll try variables
20100524 20:38:48< Gambit> I don't understand what you mean.
20100524 20:39:07< Gambit> set_variable isn't for checking.
20100524 20:39:16< Kepakiano> i know^^
20100524 20:39:31< Kepakiano> i declared a varible via {VARIABLE foo 0}
20100524 20:39:39< Gambit> Okay.
20100524 20:39:49< Kepakiano> and now i want to change it's value on a certain event
20100524 20:40:06< Gambit> So you'd use {VARIABLE foo new_value}.
20100524 20:40:14< Kepakiano> because there is another event which only occurs if the other event has already occurred
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20100524 20:40:46< Gambit> Okay but what's not working?
20100524 20:41:01< Kepakiano> setting it to a new value
20100524 20:41:32< Gambit> Do you have any conditions or anything around that?
20100524 20:41:41< Kepakiano> the structure of the event is: event, filter, /filter, message, /message, {variable}, /event
20100524 20:41:58< Gambit> So the message is triggering?
20100524 20:42:02< Kepakiano> yep
20100524 20:42:20< Gambit> Okay how about you have that message announce the value of foo
20100524 20:42:32< Gambit> and then another message after the variable setting
20100524 20:42:37< Gambit> that announces the value again.
20100524 20:42:42< Kepakiano> okay
20100524 20:42:51< Gambit> or you could use :debug and :inspect
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20100524 20:42:56< Kepakiano> message="&variable_name"?
20100524 20:43:03< Gambit> $variable_name
20100524 20:43:04< Kepakiano> or $?
20100524 20:43:06< Kepakiano> ok
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20100524 20:43:10< Kepakiano> php-style :D
20100524 20:43:56< Kepakiano> it changed
20100524 20:43:57< Kepakiano> hm
20100524 20:44:02< Kepakiano> so far so good
20100524 20:44:23< Gambit> So the condition that uses that variable is failing.
20100524 20:44:51< Kepakiano> it worked when i checked the variable to be equal to 0
20100524 20:45:12< Gambit> Sometimes broken conditions always go true or false.
20100524 20:45:22< Gambit> Hows it setup?
20100524 20:45:32< Kepakiano> structure of the subsequent event is: event, if, variable, /variable,then, message,/message,/then,/if,/event
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20100524 20:45:48< Gambit> How about the variable tag?
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20100524 20:45:54< Gambit> name=name equals=value?
20100524 20:45:58< Kepakiano> the condition is: [variable] name=foo euals=1 [/variable]
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20100524 20:46:19< Kepakiano> the name-event is moveto
20100524 20:46:28< Kepakiano> *name of the event
20100524 20:46:30< Gambit> Is that typo in the code or just what you typed here?
20100524 20:46:36< Gambit> "euls"
20100524 20:46:51< Kepakiano> i typed wrong here^
20100524 20:46:52< Kepakiano> ^^
20100524 20:46:55< Gambit> Make sure the event is firing. Stick a message outside the condition.
20100524 20:46:56< Kepakiano> it's right in the code
20100524 20:47:46< Kepakiano> it does: when i set equals=0 it fires on every move
20100524 20:47:50< zookeeper> Kepakiano, if you need help with code that's >3 lines long, better to always pastebin it
20100524 20:48:03< Kepakiano> i code on my desktop... but w8
20100524 20:48:16< zookeeper> (and not only the specific little part that you think is failing, but the whole event or whatever)
20100524 20:48:17< Gambit> oh yeah the event has to be firing if it worked before.
20100524 20:48:37-!- kepa [~5ddd6cdf@gateway/web/freenode/x-hgbbwihfpsukvbzw] has joined #wesnoth
20100524 20:48:44< kepa> webchat ftw
20100524 20:49:00< Gambit> If you say so.
20100524 20:49:16< kepa> don't have xchat on windows
20100524 20:49:22< Gambit> pidgin :D
20100524 20:49:30< kepa> not even that^^
20100524 20:50:06< kepa> http://nopaste.info/84f0b50eff.html
20100524 20:50:14< kepa> these are the events in question
20100524 20:51:00< Gambit> You're setting it to 1 and checking if it equals 0?
20100524 20:51:14< kepa> i just changed that^^
20100524 20:51:28< Kepakiano> if it's 0, it always triggers
20100524 20:52:04< Kepakiano> i only just did that to see if it triggers at all
20100524 20:52:12< Kepakiano> equals=1 is right
20100524 20:52:31< Kepakiano> but doesn't work although the first event sets the variable's value to 1
20100524 20:53:00< Kepakiano> is there a difference between equals and numerical_equals?
20100524 20:53:31< Gambit> I don't see anything wrong except that you have no filter on the moveto.
20100524 20:54:02< Gambit> I don't know if we're allowed to have filterless events or not but I ussually use x,y=$x1,$y1
20100524 20:54:07< Kepakiano> i thought the if-condition to be the "filter"
20100524 20:54:13< Gambit> Nope.
20100524 20:54:29< Gambit> oh you know.
20100524 20:54:34< Gambit> the second event should never fire.
20100524 20:54:48< Gambit> first_time_only defaults to yes.
20100524 20:55:01< Gambit> So it would trigger after the first moveto event.
20100524 20:55:06< Gambit> And since it applies to all moves.
20100524 20:55:17< Gambit> You see what I mean?
20100524 20:55:34< Kepakiano> isnt' first_time_only=yes default?
20100524 20:55:41< Gambit> Yes.
20100524 20:55:52< Gambit> But [if] does not prevent an event from firing.
20100524 20:55:56< Gambit> Only [filter] does that.
20100524 20:56:15< Kepakiano> the first_time_only=yes is in the first event
20100524 20:56:19< Gambit> Right.
20100524 20:56:26< Gambit> And yes on the second one.
20100524 20:56:41< Kepakiano> how's that?
20100524 20:56:55< Gambit> When not defined, yes is assumed for first_time_only
20100524 20:57:02< Kepakiano> of course
20100524 20:57:08< Kepakiano> head->desk
20100524 20:57:42< Kepakiano> it works!
20100524 20:57:45< Gambit> You put the variable inside of a unit and use [filter_wml] if you wanted.
20100524 20:58:01< Gambit> But that's unneccessarily ugly.
20100524 20:58:11< Kepakiano> ^^
20100524 20:58:22< Gambit> Kepakiano: first_time_only will default to no in wesnoth 2.0 :D
20100524 20:58:24< Gambit> haha
20100524 20:58:35< Kepakiano> :D
20100524 20:58:51< Gambit> I'd say at least 60% of all events ever defined use first_time_only=no
20100524 20:59:16< Gambit> Much lower in SP. Much higher in MP.
20100524 21:06:49< Kepakiano> phew, creating campaigns would be much easier with a kind of scenario creator^^
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20100524 21:09:15< Christheturtle> Hey there Gambit.
20100524 21:09:17< Gambit> Christheturtle: Hello. :)
20100524 21:09:19< Christheturtle> I got the message on Dev.
20100524 21:09:21< Christheturtle> ^^
20100524 21:19:25< Kepakiano> spending some time on dewhitespacing the code really pays out^^
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20100524 21:20:21< zookeeper> dewhitespacing?
20100524 21:21:22< Kepakiano> erase all whitespaces from the code
20100524 21:22:22< Christheturtle> I thought you meant that
20100524 21:22:26< Christheturtle> but I wondered..
20100524 21:22:37< Christheturtle> why do it?
20100524 21:24:58< Kepakiano> because on some arguments the assignment is ignored
20100524 21:25:11< Kepakiano> like "controller = human"
20100524 21:25:14< Kepakiano> doesn't work
20100524 21:25:22< Kepakiano> the game sets it to ai
20100524 21:25:32< Christheturtle> Oh right
20100524 21:27:10< Kepakiano> wml is a little hard in the beginning esp if you're used to c++ or python, but once you get the hang of it, it's kinda cool :)
20100524 21:27:52< zookeeper> Kepakiano, yeah, well, don't use spaces on the left side of =...
20100524 21:27:55< Christheturtle> I'm very into my Python (i'm a C++ dropout lawl) so it's sorta challenging yeah
20100524 21:28:36< Kepakiano> zookeeper: wml is the first language i come about that actually cares if there's a white space^^
20100524 21:28:40< Gambit> "C++ dropout" that's a label?
20100524 21:29:03< zookeeper> Kepakiano, well actually i don't think it cares about that
20100524 21:29:15< Christheturtle> Is now.
20100524 21:29:16< Christheturtle> :D
20100524 21:29:42< Christheturtle> I'm one among many who tried it for about a year, then lost motivation, then lost the ability to learn any more.
20100524 21:29:49< Kepakiano> it does, as is said "controller = human" and "controller =human" are to different things
20100524 21:29:52< Christheturtle> Wtb professional classes
20100524 21:30:13< Gambit> I have found web development to be more rewarding in the short term.
20100524 21:30:16< Christheturtle> Yup
20100524 21:30:25< Christheturtle> PHP/CSS/JavaScript no problem]
20100524 21:30:33< Christheturtle> I got the motivation at the time to NEED to learn them.
20100524 21:30:39< Christheturtle> I just WANTED to learn C++ lol.
20100524 21:30:47< Kepakiano> c++ is great :]
20100524 21:30:58< Christheturtle> Yeeaaahh but, I lost motivation.
20100524 21:31:03< Christheturtle> And I was sorta..
20100524 21:31:03< Kepakiano> ^^
20100524 21:31:07< Christheturtle> Lost HOW to learn.
20100524 21:31:14< Kepakiano> i lost motivation to learn C -_-
20100524 21:31:16< Christheturtle> I had some books etc
20100524 21:31:29< Christheturtle> But like.. I find it hard to learn out of books. I read it, then it goes.
20100524 21:31:35< Christheturtle> I'm better taught 1 to 1.
20100524 21:31:45< Christheturtle> Like with PHP and CSS. :)
20100524 21:31:50< Christheturtle> Then JavaScript came natural.
20100524 21:32:10< Kepakiano> and ajax is picked up on the way
20100524 21:32:14< Christheturtle> Yush.
20100524 21:32:38< zookeeper> Kepakiano, yeah, looks like it cares. strange, the same thing (on different keys) is used in mainline in lots of places and they seem to work.
20100524 21:32:58< Christheturtle> Apparently you get get C++ classes
20100524 21:33:07< Christheturtle> As in lessons, not the actualy C++ classes lol
20100524 21:33:12< Christheturtle> actual*
20100524 21:33:13< Kepakiano> yeah, some assignments work like "side = 1"
20100524 21:33:19< Kepakiano> some don't^^
20100524 21:33:28< zookeeper> oh well, in any case the convention is to not put spaces on either side, unless you have a translatable string, then it's very common to do foo= _ "bar" for example
20100524 21:33:44< Gambit> Well with side = 1 it's only expecting one value.
20100524 21:33:58< Gambit> With others it's possible to have a space in the value
20100524 21:34:11< zookeeper> Kepakiano, you could file a bug report for that if you want
20100524 21:34:11< Gambit> id=Iron Mauler vs id= Iron Mauler
20100524 21:34:27< Kepakiano> controller only expects one value as well :D
20100524 21:34:30< zookeeper> the sensible behaviour IMO would be to trim preceding whitespaces
20100524 21:34:41< Gambit> character vs string?
20100524 21:34:43< Gambit> Dunno.
20100524 21:34:54< Gambit> *integer
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20100524 21:35:47< Kepakiano> they could just forbid white spaces in the beginning of string
20100524 21:36:29< Kepakiano> the interpreter would start reading on the first char right of = which is not a white space
20100524 21:37:08< zookeeper> yep
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20100524 21:37:26< zookeeper> if someone really wanted preceding whitespaces in the string, then they damn well should use quotes for clarity anyway
20100524 21:37:42< Kepakiano> exactly
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20100524 21:50:42< Gambit> One great thing about the wesnoth forums: Your eyesight quickly improves!
20100524 21:50:58< Gambit> I couldn't read that little text before joining. :P
20100524 21:51:03< Christheturtle> Unless you browse in the dark like me.
20100524 21:51:04< Christheturtle> :)
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20100524 21:52:26< Kepakiano> does anyone know, how to use umlaute in strings? :D
20100524 21:52:31< Kepakiano> like ä, ö and ü
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20100524 21:56:23< Vornicus> You h... dangit this is #wesnoth not #python , my life is harder now
20100524 21:58:31< Kepakiano> where are the translations stored?
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20100524 22:00:09< Kepakiano> hm, the .mo files aren't of much help...
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--- Log closed Tue May 25 00:00:31 2010