--- Log opened Fri May 28 00:00:58 2010
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20100528 01:10:22< faryshta> Wesnoth have proxy support?
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20100528 01:26:55< Gambit> faryshta: Search the tech support forum.
20100528 01:27:06< Gambit> Seems to me that was recently discussed there.
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20100528 01:47:42< Valkier> Gambit: Back to drawing with you!
20100528 01:48:06< Gambit> s/draw/cod/
20100528 01:48:15< Valkier> Wha?
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20100528 02:29:18< PetePorty> ahhh.. finally some rest..
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20100528 02:38:07< Christheturtle> PeterPorty: Rest is for the weak!
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20100528 03:00:17< PetePorty> rest is for the people who need it, the ones who actually work...
20100528 03:02:25< PetePorty> O.o A friend of mine happened to be a big fat perv....
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20100528 03:56:17< KamusHadenes> hello
20100528 03:56:42< KamusHadenes> I'm having problems to start wesnoth. it is unable to find its images, despite its path being correct
20100528 03:57:12< PetePorty> O.o
20100528 03:57:31< PetePorty> shadowmaster, peoople need you
20100528 03:57:45< Valkier> He's off fighting crime.
20100528 03:57:51< PetePorty> oh...
20100528 03:58:08< PetePorty> ok... maybe Taylor Swift can help
20100528 03:58:12< KamusHadenes> hahaha
20100528 03:58:21< PetePorty> TalorSwift
20100528 03:58:25< PetePorty> help us
20100528 03:58:27< TaylorSwift> hm?
20100528 03:58:38< PetePorty> Kamus needs help
20100528 03:58:38< TaylorSwift> Operating System?
20100528 03:58:48< PetePorty> there you go
20100528 03:58:50< KamusHadenes> that is what I call a good reception :P
20100528 03:58:54< KamusHadenes> thank you guys
20100528 03:58:58< KamusHadenes> TaylorSwift: Gentoo Linux
20100528 03:59:04< PetePorty> ;)
20100528 03:59:30 * TaylorSwift is more of a Windows person :s
20100528 03:59:40< PetePorty> PetePorty at your service, I'm like that useless guys everyoone in here hates, but just don't leave because I know they want me to
20100528 03:59:54< PetePorty> geez Taylor!
20100528 04:00:09< TaylorSwift> Well i got Ubuntu, but i don't use it much :p
20100528 04:00:15< KamusHadenes> :P
20100528 04:00:17< PetePorty> ur gonna get like Ke$ha if u keep that attitude
20100528 04:00:40< PetePorty> lets se....
20100528 04:00:48< PetePorty> Gambit, Kamus needs you
20100528 04:01:26< KamusHadenes> you are like batman's signal? :P
20100528 04:01:41< PetePorty> sure
20100528 04:01:51< PetePorty> ok... Gambit aint answering
20100528 04:01:57< Gambit> Tell him to take a number, I'm tutoring.
20100528 04:02:02< PetePorty> Ok,
20100528 04:02:14< PetePorty> I'll ask Elvish_Pillager 
20100528 04:02:25< PetePorty> dude... Kamus needs help....
20100528 04:02:30< Elvish_Pillager> hmm what?
20100528 04:02:42< PetePorty> Kamus.... he needs you
20100528 04:03:24< Gambit> PetePorty: okay what?
20100528 04:03:30< TaylorSwift> Lol, why was i 2nd in line to be asked for tech support <_<
20100528 04:03:32< PetePorty> ok... read up
20100528 04:03:33< Elvish_Pillager> I'm an expert with WML, not with that kind of bugs - don't think I can help
20100528 04:03:46< PetePorty> well, thx anyway
20100528 04:03:51< PetePorty> Gambit, you help him
20100528 04:04:06< Gambit> With?
20100528 04:04:11< Gambit> Images not loading...
20100528 04:04:18< PetePorty> yep
20100528 04:04:21< Gambit> KamusHadenes: You mean images in an addon?
20100528 04:04:23< KamusHadenes> let me pastebin
20100528 04:04:26< Gambit> Or just the default core images?
20100528 04:05:28 * Gambit checks to see if zookeeper is here.
20100528 04:05:31< KamusHadenes> Gambit: http://pastebin.com/c8SXgmmn
20100528 04:05:39< Gambit> Okay the coast is clear. KamusHadenes you need a [+images] tag!
20100528 04:05:52< KamusHadenes> default core. I also tried to reset configuration by deleting ~/.wesnoth, same error
20100528 04:05:56< Gambit> Oh that
20100528 04:06:03< Gambit> KamusHadenes: Sorry. No idea.
20100528 04:06:14< PetePorty> O.o
20100528 04:06:18< Gambit> http://forums.wesnoth.org
20100528 04:06:24< Gambit> technical support
20100528 04:06:26< PetePorty> might Blarumyrran help?
20100528 04:06:35< KamusHadenes> thank you all, I'll try a downgrade to 1.6
20100528 04:06:37< Gambit> The smart people hang out there.
20100528 04:06:44< PetePorty> like me
20100528 04:06:45< PetePorty> : D
20100528 04:06:51< Gambit> PetePorty: Stop poking random people who won't have any fking idea what's wrong!
20100528 04:06:57< PetePorty> np Kamus...
20100528 04:07:01< Gambit> jeesh
20100528 04:07:02< PetePorty> ok, ok... sorry
20100528 04:07:12< PetePorty> I did think you would fix it...
20100528 04:07:26< KamusHadenes> thank you epic dealer, taylor and batman signal
20100528 04:07:44< PetePorty> ;)
20100528 04:07:47< Gambit> PetePorty: Yeah because I mess with data/core/ a lot on linux.
20100528 04:07:55< Gambit> :\
20100528 04:07:58< KamusHadenes> see you, I'll stay here (away :P)
20100528 04:08:02< Gambit> ^^^sarcasm
20100528 04:08:19< PetePorty> np, post on the forums and the exact same people will answer using the exact same answers, but they'll try to sound more pro
20100528 04:08:28< Gambit> No.
20100528 04:08:33< Gambit> The people on the forums will answer correctly.
20100528 04:08:37< Gambit> Because some of them will be developers.
20100528 04:08:38< PetePorty> oh, forgot to ask Zarel
20100528 04:08:43< PetePorty> true
20100528 04:08:46< Gambit> But they might ask you some questions you won't know the answers to.
20100528 04:08:51< PetePorty> why aint des here?
20100528 04:08:59< PetePorty> devs*
20100528 04:09:03< Gambit> PetePorty: Because people like you and I annoy most of them away.
20100528 04:09:10< PetePorty> I know....
20100528 04:09:12< Gambit> No.
20100528 04:09:24< PetePorty> O.o
20100528 04:09:44< PetePorty> well, they better get used to it
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20100528 04:09:50< PetePorty> I'll pass by their homes
20100528 04:10:02< TaylorSwift> >_<
20100528 04:10:03< Gambit> King_Elendil: Long time no see.
20100528 04:10:06< PetePorty> maybe they are on #wesnoth-dev
20100528 04:10:15< Gambit> lmao
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20100528 04:10:23< King_Elendil> lol, not really
20100528 04:10:25< Gambit> I'll miss him.
20100528 04:10:38< PetePorty> O.o
20100528 04:11:12< Gambit> PetePorty: Did I tell you about franbot's latest bit of awesomeness?
20100528 04:11:19< PetePorty> nope
20100528 04:11:19< Gambit> You can ask her *any* question.
20100528 04:11:22< Gambit> And she'll answer.
20100528 04:11:24< PetePorty> any
20100528 04:11:28< PetePorty> seriosly
20100528 04:11:38< PetePorty> franbot: are you a virgin?
20100528 04:11:49< PetePorty> nope
20100528 04:11:52< PetePorty> liar
20100528 04:11:56< Gambit> PetePorty: Erm.
20100528 04:11:59< Gambit> She has to be in the channel.
20100528 04:12:03< PetePorty> oh...
20100528 04:12:07< King_Elendil> XD
20100528 04:12:09< PetePorty> why aint she here?
20100528 04:12:24< PetePorty> k, link me to the fork plz
20100528 04:12:26< Gambit> PetePorty: Because according to shad0wmaster there are enough bots in here.
20100528 04:12:33< PetePorty> oh...
20100528 04:12:39< Gambit> #wesnothxp
20100528 04:12:42< PetePorty> shadowmaster spoils all the fun
20100528 04:12:50< PetePorty> (He'll kill me)
20100528 04:12:54< PetePorty> thx
20100528 04:14:42< Zarel> PetePorty: What about asking me?
20100528 04:14:53< PetePorty> nothing...
20100528 04:14:56 * PetePorty runs
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20100528 04:36:58< PeterPorty> <PeterPorty> PeterPorty> u like shadowmaster?
20100528 04:36:59< PeterPorty> <PeterPorty> <franbot> PeterPorty: Of course not!
20100528 04:37:11< PeterPorty> ffunny
20100528 04:40:37< Espreon> ...
20100528 04:41:53< PeterPorty> : D
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20100528 07:46:55< ancestral> http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/10/05/27/apple.removes.gnu.go.game.app.makes.no.comment/
20100528 07:48:40< ancestral> What does this mean for Wesnoth?
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20100528 08:11:38< ancestral> If a developer is the original author of code licensed under the GPLv2, that code could be dual licensed for distribution under the App Store. But if a developer incorporates someone else's GPLed code, and Apple doesn't change its terms of service to be in compliance with the GPL, then developers may find their apps being removed from the App Store en masse.
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20100528 08:21:46< knotwork> apple isnt the only player in the handheld-device-apps industry is it? maybe there others (android?) better suited for GNU apps than iphone?
20100528 08:23:53< Rhonda> The Nokia N900 also has wesnoth, for what I know.
20100528 08:25:56< knotwork> in the past when add-ons server was down website was too, now add-ons seems down but website works
20100528 08:26:01< ancestral> GNU Go was removed from the App Store because the FSF approached Apple about it
20100528 08:26:32< ancestral> Since Apple is the distributor and has a clause saying there are usage rules this supposedly violates the GPLv2
20100528 08:26:43< knotwork> so apple figures its okay to violate the license on each app indivudually until that app complains?
20100528 08:27:00< ancestral> Therefore, technically, Apple would be in violation of distributing Wesnoth through the App store
20100528 08:27:20< ancestral> Well, technically, the developer agrees s/he is not in violation of the terms when they upload it
20100528 08:27:28< ancestral> So the developer should be aware
20100528 08:28:08< ancestral> It's a lot like YouTube saying "no copyrighted content" and then being prompted by copyright holders to remove content (in a timely fashion)
20100528 08:28:50< Rhonda> Erm, no, it's not.
20100528 08:28:54< ancestral> Oh?
20100528 08:29:23< Rhonda> youtube doesn't check uploads prior to publishing them - apple does have an approval process
20100528 08:29:34< Rhonda> At least from what I understood.
20100528 08:29:49< ancestral> They do. But they're not police
20100528 08:29:52< knotwork> sounds like it could be argued apple knowling and with forethought violated the license
20100528 08:30:08< ancestral> No, if Apple knew they wouldn't allow it
20100528 08:30:37< Rhonda> So? What does "they're not police" mean?
20100528 08:30:42< knotwork> they dont know any other apps than go contain GNU code despite their approval process?
20100528 08:31:01< Rhonda> knotwork: Yes, it's at least fishy.
20100528 08:31:31< knotwork> how many $ of fish? :)
20100528 08:31:57< Rhonda> The reason for the approval process is for checking things like that.
20100528 08:31:58< ancestral> Rhonda: How much approval does Wesnoth do with add-ons submitted?
20100528 08:32:01< knotwork> mind you wesnoth has gotten some of those $ hasnt it
20100528 08:32:15< ancestral> When you go to upload it you agree it's able to be released under the GPLv2
20100528 08:32:25< Rhonda> ancestral: Is there an approval process? I'm not really aware of any?
20100528 08:32:47< Rhonda> knotwork: Not completely sure, not aware of that to be honest.
20100528 08:32:51< ancestral> No but it's naïve to assume that the approval process Apple uses checks all matters of legality
20100528 08:33:00< ancestral> The approval folks aren't lawyers
20100528 08:33:27< Rhonda> It is also naïve to compare an explicit non-approval process to an approval process.
20100528 08:33:30< Rhonda> That's my point.
20100528 08:34:00< ancestral> That's wasn't my point however
20100528 08:34:26< ancestral> The point I was getting at is that people must agree that they can abide by the terms when they upload the content
20100528 08:34:31< ancestral> YouTube has this
20100528 08:34:34< ancestral> Apple has this
20100528 08:34:39< ancestral> Heck, ImageBin has this
20100528 08:34:58< knotwork> assguard boilerplate
20100528 08:35:12< ancestral> If someone approaches the place and contests it then they'll review it and take it down as needed
20100528 08:36:03< ancestral> In any case the developer who is putting the app up should be aware and should be understanding of the terms and conditions
20100528 08:37:03< ancestral> AFAIK the stickler point here is the "usage rules" language
20100528 08:37:19< ancestral> And, at least according to the FSF, this is in violation of GPLv2
20100528 08:39:43< ancestral> knotwork: again, wasn't the root of my point
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20100528 08:45:20< ancestral> Looks like Noy closed the thread
20100528 08:45:38< ancestral> It is still worth addressing the Wesnoth community about
20100528 08:45:54< ancestral> FSF explains further here, btw: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store-gpl-enforcement
20100528 08:46:05< noy> Well we have discussed it.
20100528 08:46:12< noy> this isn't the first time this has come up
20100528 08:46:41< ancestral> How does it deal with the "usage rules"
20100528 08:46:53< ancestral> That appears to be the matter on contention for the FSF
20100528 08:47:05< noy> And to be perfectly frank, the people who are posting in there aren't really in the place to actually know
20100528 08:47:16< ancestral> noy: Probably true
20100528 08:48:38< noy> so then it just degrades to an den of rumors and half informed opinion. 
20100528 08:49:15< noy> If it was a discussion between myself, Dave, esr, ivanovic or another developer, thats fine. 
20100528 08:49:21< noy> but thats not the forum for it. 
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20100528 08:49:53< ancestral> Well, I'm open to knowing how there isn't a violation atm
20100528 08:50:02< noy> We don
20100528 08:50:21< noy> t believe there is 
20100528 08:50:38< noy> partly because kyle does provide the source code 
20100528 08:51:02< ancestral> Apple is a distributor of the software
20100528 08:51:10< ancestral> That Kyle put up onto the App Store
20100528 08:51:16< noy> Yes but there is an alternate distribution method
20100528 08:51:40< ancestral> That's fine, but Apple is distributing the software with restrictions
20100528 08:52:13< noy> Great, there is an ALTERNATE distribution of the source code available. 
20100528 08:52:31< ancestral> "Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms and conditions. You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein."
20100528 08:53:03< noy> Look I can read FSF
20100528 08:53:03< ancestral> Apple is a distributor of the software. There is another distribution channel, but Apple is one.
20100528 08:53:44< noy> So what? Does it impinge on your ability or anybody's ability to obtain the source code?
20100528 08:53:51< noy> If they want?
20100528 08:54:02< noy> or their ability to alter the program as they see fit?
20100528 08:54:14< ancestral> Noy, the problem as I see it is that the app on the App Store has this verbage:
20100528 08:54:21< noy> you don't get it
20100528 08:54:22< ancestral> "You acknowledge that Products contain security technology that limits your usage of Products to the following applicable Usage Rules, and, whether or not Products are limited by security technology, you agree to use Products in compliance with the applicable Usage Rules."
20100528 08:55:03< noy> The legal test for GPL is whether its available to any individual for their use to modify or use
20100528 08:55:40< ancestral> The GPL prevents distributors from using separate legal agreements
20100528 08:56:51< noy> That might be true if it was the only distribution method. And even if it was so... so what? 
20100528 08:57:52< ancestral> I don't think it matters if there are alternative distributors
20100528 08:57:56< noy> Lets consider this for a moment, lets say you're right
20100528 08:58:10< noy> Should we pull the apps store version?
20100528 08:58:23< noy> will that really be for the benefit of wesnoth?
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20100528 09:00:00< ancestral> Personally I like it on the store — still, who are we to choose where we want to abide by the license and where we don't?
20100528 09:00:34< noy> Honestly, I think you're basically just splitting hairs to make a point. 
20100528 09:00:47< noy> For me the test here is does our relationship adversely affect the open distribution of the software.
20100528 09:01:45< noy> Does it in any way hinder the free use of code
20100528 09:02:05< ancestral> I'd like to say that the spirit of free software is more important than the particulars of how it is distributed, don't get me wrong
20100528 09:02:28< noy> Well thats kinda the point here.
20100528 09:03:02< noy> see the other point is in Paragraph 1 
20100528 09:03:05< noy> You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, and
20100528 09:03:05< noy> you may at your option offer warranty protection in exchange for a fee.
20100528 09:03:44< noy> Its arguable that Kyle does this in spirit as well. 
20100528 09:03:49< ancestral> I'd just like to see some kind of statement or justification or something, though I'm realizing this may not happen. I do think Apple is in violation of distributing it, unless their ToS change, or Wesnoth somehow dual licenses
20100528 09:04:45< noy> Didn't you just get this?
20100528 09:05:36< noy> To be honest I see FSF just spoiling for a fight. 
20100528 09:05:55< ancestral> If the speed limit is 55 MPH and I think it's okay to go over 55 (because everyone does) that doesn't mean it's not illegal to go over 55 MPH
20100528 09:06:07< noy> I don't see that at all
20100528 09:06:15< noy> I see it for the legal issue it is
20100528 09:07:29< ancestral> Don't get me wrong, it is reassuring knowing the source code is available for his project
20100528 09:08:05< noy> Where basically the we've deployed a response that deals with the substantive aspect of what gpl is intended to cover.
20100528 09:08:27< ancestral> Then I think truly you/we seek a different license
20100528 09:08:48< ancestral> GPL is perhaps a bit too restrictive in how we'd like distribution to be handled
20100528 09:09:10< noy> No, GPL is intended to deal with ensuring the software is available as desired for individual's use.
20100528 09:09:50< noy> Nothing has occurred that prevents that
20100528 09:09:51< ancestral> However, you can't have separate Terms of Service in conjunction with GPL
20100528 09:10:47< Rhonda> No, GPL is intended to teal with ensuring that the FSF has their hands in the pool. :)
20100528 09:10:54< noy> Yeah, but that doesn't actually affect code usage.
20100528 09:10:56< Rhonda> s/teal/deal/
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20100528 09:12:25< ancestral> Regardless, GPL says "you may not impose any further restrictions" and the App Store ToS imposes restrictive limits
20100528 09:12:39< noy> ... okay, for the third time
20100528 09:12:58< ancestral> If Wesnoth was using a different license which didn't include that part of section 6, then hey, that would reflect what we truly want
20100528 09:13:12< Rhonda> noy: Actually, ancestral has a point because Apple isn't following the rules of the GPL for distributing the binaries. They don't include a written offer valid for three years nor do they accomany it with the source.
20100528 09:13:31< Rhonda> Thus apple doesn't has a right to distribute it. No matter how much we would like to have it in there.
20100528 09:13:32< noy> I suspect that the separate agreement clause is put in there so you can't have code in some legal limbo
20100528 09:14:42< noy> Its possible Rhonda, at the same time thats taking a restrictive view of binary distribution.
20100528 09:14:52< Rhonda> Unfortunately, legal area isn't about intentions, it's about what's written.
20100528 09:15:11< ancestral> IANAL and again, I'm not bothered by this. But, perhaps, a different license would better suit Wesnoth.
20100528 09:15:15< noy> thats only if you consider distribution of wesnoth on itunes in exclusion of all other.
20100528 09:15:19< ancestral> Ideally speaking
20100528 09:15:30< noy> which is not the actual situation. 
20100528 09:15:36< Rhonda> noy: Of course the GPL is a restrictive view of binary distribution - and that's intentional.
20100528 09:16:13< noy> Yes, but at the same time, its not an iron clad as you make it. 
20100528 09:16:25< Rhonda> Apple has to agree to the GPL and abide by it if they want to distribute the binaries.
20100528 09:16:43< Rhonda> This is totally unrelated to where the sources or binaries might be available otherwise, too.
20100528 09:16:59< Rhonda> It's an iron clad as the FSF make it - and they wrote the damn thing.
20100528 09:17:08< noy> I can already see how I could write a legal brief that argues kyle as the publisher has provided the distribution of binaries
20100528 09:17:43< noy> Rhonda: laws and agreements have a way of not being as iron clad as intended 
20100528 09:18:18< ancestral> One of the usage rules on the app store is that you may only install the software on five approved devices
20100528 09:18:26< noy> I'm sure the framers of the constitution were considering the use of the internet when they wrote it 300 years ago
20100528 09:18:27< Rhonda> That doesn't mean that we can ignore the established rules that we applied to our code just because we want it to be in the appstore.
20100528 09:19:29< Rhonda> The GPL doesn't allow additional restrictions. And it requires a written offer valid for three years or being accompanied with the source, _by the distributor_.
20100528 09:20:05< Rhonda> And no, I'm not one of the GPL worshippers, I do see more harm in this clause than it does good, actually.
20100528 09:20:09< noy> I'm not saying we are. I think if we;re following gpl in its spirit and effectively are meeting all its obligations and purposes, yet we might not be following it perfectly by its letter, then its not an serious issue.
20100528 09:20:21< Rhonda> It lost us artists already, if you remember.
20100528 09:20:25< noy> One.
20100528 09:20:39< ancestral> Ideally the usage rules language would be amended, then there'd be no problem
20100528 09:20:49< ancestral> afaict
20100528 09:20:50< noy> ancestral: impossible
20100528 09:21:01< ancestral> Apple's usage rules
20100528 09:21:04< noy> or not worth the effort
20100528 09:21:12< noy> well thats fine, but I doubt that will happen. 
20100528 09:21:17< ancestral> True
20100528 09:21:48< Rhonda> So the only real approach would be to pull it from the appstore because apple doesn't think about following the GPL.
20100528 09:22:16< Rhonda> Actually this sounds like a case for gpl-violations.org
20100528 09:22:32< noy> It might be a technical violation but effectively doesn't really affect anything. 
20100528 09:22:40< Rhonda> … if only that one wouldn't seem to be abandoned.
20100528 09:22:57< Rhonda> Of course it does because it restricts the users.
20100528 09:23:06< noy> does it?
20100528 09:23:12< noy> source code is available 
20100528 09:23:25< Rhonda> Neither accompanied nor offered to the customer.
20100528 09:23:39< Rhonda> So they simply aren't made aware, at all.
20100528 09:23:56< noy> Its been publicized before...
20100528 09:24:00< noy> one sec
20100528 09:24:44< noy> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Older_News_2009
20100528 09:24:46< noy> november
20100528 09:25:09< Rhonda> So?
20100528 09:25:18< Rhonda> How is that related to http://itunes.apple.com/de/app/battle-for-wesnoth/id340691963?mt=8
20100528 09:25:40< Rhonda> There is no mentioning whatsover on that site, nor when you downloaded the game.
20100528 09:25:51< ancestral> It wouldn't hurt to have a link in the description
20100528 09:25:53< noy> Because again you're taking a restrictive view of publishing
20100528 09:25:57< ancestral> I guess
20100528 09:26:05< Rhonda> noy: Not me, the GPL does.
20100528 09:26:09< noy> you're just ignoring the fact that there are alternative distribution
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20100528 09:26:24< Rhonda> And you are ignoring the fact that doesn't matter for the case.
20100528 09:26:26< noy> yeah well I don't agree with FSF's interpretation of the law
20100528 09:26:37< Rhonda> They wrote the damn thing!
20100528 09:27:09< Rhonda> And gpl-violations.org were tracking such issues down.
20100528 09:27:17< noy> Rhonda: I work in public policy and law; them writing the thing does not mean they are the be all and end all for its interpretation. 
20100528 09:27:51< Tomsik> Hm?
20100528 09:27:55< Rhonda> That's fine, but the GPL has been tested in court already and confirmed their interpretation.
20100528 09:28:14< noy> Just like one political party writing a law and legislating it does not mean they have a lock on all its interpretations
20100528 09:28:17< Rhonda> And the FSF do have lawyers.
20100528 09:28:39< Rhonda> Not sure about your history but it's interesting that you see your expertise above theirs.
20100528 09:28:48< noy> Great, who have their own agenda. 
20100528 09:28:52< Rhonda> Who were in court for it already.
20100528 09:29:05< noy> Thats fine, I'm not saying that I have a lock on it either.
20100528 09:29:19< Tomsik> What are you two talking about, except GPL and interpretations?
20100528 09:29:21< Rhonda> No, you are just trying to belittle theirs.
20100528 09:29:44< noy> No I'm not; you're just saying that its illegal, thats it. 
20100528 09:29:52< noy> and I'm not sure if thats the case. 
20100528 09:30:01< Rhonda> Tomsik: appstore does violate the GPL in the sense of that they neither accompanies their distribution nor do give a written offer for the source.
20100528 09:30:48< Tomsik> What kind of GPLed stuff is there on appstore?
20100528 09:30:56< noy> Because the applicability of law is highly conditional in context. I'm not too sure whether prior cases are entirely relevant. 
20100528 09:32:02< noy> Given our situation. Thats all I'm saying. I'm not belittling anybody; I'm just saying we;re in a unique situation. 
20100528 09:32:11< ancestral> Tomsik: FSF addressed an issue with GNU Go (http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store-gpl-enforcement)
20100528 09:32:30< noy> Again, a different context. 
20100528 09:36:48< Tomsik> Well, the article doesn't say anything about GPLed applications that are still there
20100528 09:36:55< Tomsik> the only mentioned application was removed
20100528 09:37:18< Tomsik> I've never used appstore, so I don't know, how many GPLed applications are there?
20100528 09:37:40< ancestral> Unknown, really
20100528 09:38:25< Tomsik> But is there at least one?
20100528 09:38:51< ancestral> I saw a list somewhere; at least a dozen "known" apps
20100528 09:39:23< Tomsik> Well, it seems to clearly violate GPL
20100528 09:39:43< Tomsik> I'm no lawyer and maybe I've been manipulated by the article, but it seems so to me right now.
20100528 09:41:06< ancestral> I don't know if providing a link to the code would be enough
20100528 09:41:58< ancestral> And I think the "usage rules" section, which was the part of the FSF's focus is causing issue
20100528 09:43:30< Rhonda> Tomsik: Like, wesnoth?  ;)
20100528 09:44:15< Tomsik> I guess they'll just delete all the gpled stuff
20100528 09:44:17< Rhonda> That's actually the reason why it's on topic here.
20100528 09:44:48< Rhonda> Only if they are made aware of it, not sure how their review process works and wether they would store such data.
20100528 09:45:38< Tomsik> I'm pretty sure FSF will make them aware
20100528 09:46:06< Rhonda> About GNU software.
20100528 09:46:13< ancestral> TBH I don't think they would care; these things are typically case-by-case except where they feel it violates their own terms, then they'll go through and purge
20100528 09:47:13< ancestral> *they == Apple
20100528 09:48:03< ancestral> Right, I don't think FSF would bother with anything that's not theirs either
20100528 09:59:19< ancestral> I seem to remember that movie review, of "Sita Sings the Blues"
20100528 09:59:57< ancestral> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1665950&cid=32353024
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20100528 15:56:24< artisticdude> I noticed another one of those "i tried to play mp but found i was banned please fix" threads the other day. ^^
20100528 15:56:35< Valkier> Oh?
20100528 15:57:19< artisticdude> They keep popping up from time to time, and some of us think it's the same guy registering under a different name each time.
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20100528 16:27:41< Unnheulu> What duh heck is the Wesnoth Foundation?...
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20100528 16:32:17< Gambit> Unnheulu: ?
20100528 16:32:27< Unnheulu> Gambit, Kyle Pooles interview
20100528 16:32:45< Gambit> link
20100528 16:32:54< Unnheulu> Users Forum :p
20100528 16:33:08< Gambit> oh that place
20100528 16:33:23< Gambit> only on on tatooine will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villanry.
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20100528 16:38:59< Gambit> PeterPorty's comment was stupid.
20100528 16:39:35< Unnheulu> Bah, add-on servers down
20100528 16:39:39< Unnheulu> What thread?
20100528 16:39:58< Unnheulu> (And all his comments are)
20100528 16:40:31< Gambit> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30115
20100528 16:40:37 * Gambit saw that coming actually ^^^
20100528 16:40:40< Unnheulu> Found it :P
20100528 16:40:44< Gambit> That thread.
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20100528 17:31:10< scot> Hi guys
20100528 17:31:16< scot> I have an issue
20100528 17:32:05< scot> I am using ubuntu-10.04, I installed wesnoth-1.8 from the ubuntu repository...the welcome screen opens, but the blue buttons are not clickable, however they mouseover just fine
20100528 17:32:13< Gambit> scot: Switch to fullscreen.
20100528 17:32:21< Gambit> ctrl+f I think.
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20100528 17:33:13< scot> ah well that fixed the problem, except that I run dual monitors, it stuck it right in between the monitors
20100528 17:33:55< Gambit> scot: Ouch. There's two problems here. 1. Wesnoth hates dual monitors. 2. Ubuntu's libsdl is messed up (which causes the broken buttons)
20100528 17:34:27< Gambit> I think the solution is to downgrade libsdl by one version.
20100528 17:34:28< sevis> scot: Downgrade libsdl, the 1.2.14* releases don't work.
20100528 17:35:00< scot> well it hates it in fullscreen anyway
20100528 17:35:02< scot> hehe
20100528 17:36:44< sevis> don't work on some WMs.*
20100528 17:38:24< scot> Crap, downgrading SDL is going to break a few other apps
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20100528 17:39:40< scot> I am going to try and install a downgraded libsdl into my home as a prefix and change ld.so.conf to look there first, maybe it won't actually break nything at all
20100528 17:40:15< Soliton> there should also be a fixed 1.2.14 somewhere iirc.
20100528 17:40:59< scot> is it truck libSDL that's the problem or is it ubuntu's pacvkage?
20100528 17:42:56< sevis> It's an issue in upstream libSDL, Ubuntu has nothing to do with it, afaik.
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20100528 17:47:44< Valkier> Could just set it to windows mode and move it to one monitor.
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20100528 17:47:48< Valkier> That's what I do.
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20100528 17:52:53< scot> if that worked I wouldn't be here asking :)
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20100528 20:53:30< Gambit|Laptop_> Wow.
20100528 20:53:34< Gambit|Laptop_> This is rediculous.
20100528 20:54:01< Gambit|Laptop_> Stupid storm
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20100528 22:29:43< hagabaka> AI allies are so ridiculous sometimes
20100528 22:32:05< hagabaka> On this scenario the allies seem to be programmed to play defensively, so they're mostly standing around. Except when they can get a kill, then they charge in without considering retaliation, and don't retreat even if they have very low health
20100528 22:32:39< zookeeper> what scenario?
20100528 22:36:49< hagabaka> Swamp Defense in Elvish Dynasty RPG
20100528 22:37:20< zookeeper> ok then
20100528 22:40:17< hagabaka> it would be nice if the AI could follow the player, rather than either stand or go for kills
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20100528 23:48:48< PeterPorty> hello
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--- Log closed Sat May 29 00:00:04 2010