--- Log opened Wed Jun 23 00:00:12 2010
20100623 00:09:40-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100623 00:15:06-!- _jbx_ [~jbailey@12.190.80.225] has quit [Quit: Dig that hole, forget the sun.]
20100623 00:36:13-!- Blueblazed [~nick@adsl-99-186-64-86.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 00:37:14-!- phlaem [~a@e178098160.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100623 00:40:27-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 01:04:19-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20100623 01:04:34-!- qemqemqem [~quassel@cpe-74-74-148-190.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100623 01:33:13< AI0867> 12:16  * loonycyborg was just being inprecise, 12:17 < loonycyborg> *unprecise <-- imprecise
20100623 01:37:53< AI0867> silene: I was asking about adding #error and #warning directives to the preprocessor
20100623 01:40:54< AI0867> 19:42 < billynux> I'll reconnect in 20', see you in a bit <-- 20 what? feet? minutes of arc?
20100623 01:41:10< AI0867> using quotes as units is confusing =P
20100623 01:42:47< AI0867> 20 minutes of arc is about 80 seconds if you use earth's rotation as a reference
20100623 01:44:10< Espreon> Noöne cares?
20100623 01:48:02-!- meric [~Eric@124-171-255-43.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 01:50:32< knotwork> obviously their basis as 'minutes' is based on some other planet...
20100623 01:52:36< Espreon> It matters not, for I have declared it as such.
20100623 01:52:43 * Espreon always wanted to say that
20100623 02:24:38-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100623 02:26:41-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]
20100623 02:27:20-!- loonybot [~loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 02:29:47-!- pokh [~pokhbocee@ws40.cs.drexel.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 02:37:31-!- pokh [~pokhbocee@ws40.cs.drexel.edu] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20100623 02:39:56< Espreon> http://sourceforge.net/projects/thonsew/ ... Oh, wow...
20100623 02:43:58-!- RedMoonK [6d5a1d65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.90.29.101] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20100623 02:52:41< Upthorn> hey, I have a question about class inheritance
20100623 02:53:12< Upthorn> when you have a class foo:public bar, when foo gets constructed, the first thing that happens is that bar's constructor is called, correct?
20100623 02:55:56-!- meric [~Eric@124-171-255-43.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 02:56:08-!- meric [~Eric@124-171-255-43.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 02:56:16< Upthorn> or do the members get constructed, then the superclass?
20100623 03:00:47< Upthorn> looks like I was right about order, and on further consideion it was irrelevant anyway.
20100623 03:00:52< Upthorn> *consideration
20100623 03:06:27< Upthorn> (sometimes my IRC client eats keystrokes if my CPU usage is spiked)
20100623 03:06:37< AI0867> Upthorn: base first
20100623 03:06:51< AI0867> then the members, in order of declaration
20100623 03:07:31< AI0867> or rather: virtual baseclasses first, then normal baseclasses, in order of declaration, then members, in order of declaration
20100623 03:07:53< AI0867> where "virtual baseclasses" includes virtual baseclasses anywhere down the inheritance tree
20100623 03:11:27< Upthorn> thanks
20100623 03:13:17-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 03:15:16-!- Blueblazed [~nick@adsl-99-186-64-86.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100623 03:17:05< CIA-87> espreon * r43653 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: Added some commented-out apostrophe conversions.
20100623 03:19:46< Espreon> Meh, I'm not going to bother fixing the screwup in UtBS's epilogue, as it's just going to be redone... probably.
20100623 03:19:58< Espreon> Byez for nowz...
20100623 03:20:07 * Espreon disappears...
20100623 03:23:12-!- meric [~Eric@124-171-255-43.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20100623 03:37:26-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 03:42:52-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin]
20100623 04:01:36-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100623 04:05:27-!- Mythological [Mythologic@77.28.93.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 04:06:08-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 04:10:35-!- DesertPanther [~Khalid@unaffiliated/desertpanther] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100623 04:20:31-!- Blueblazed [~nick@adsl-99-186-64-86.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 04:26:32-!- apoi [~andi@85-126-180-242.volume.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20100623 04:34:41-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 04:37:42-!- apoi [~andi@85-126-180-242.volume.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 04:50:09-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Quit: I hope y'all have a nice day ;)]
20100623 04:51:16-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2f562.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 04:53:47-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100623 04:55:14-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20100623 04:57:43-!- shikadibot [~shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Quit: manual override]
20100623 04:58:17-!- shikadibot [~shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 05:00:37-!- Gambit [~quassel@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 05:58:45-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:00:50-!- silene [~plouf@bau91-1-82-239-244-109.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:01:07-!- silene [~plouf@bau91-1-82-239-244-109.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host]
20100623 06:01:07-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:06:36< silene> AI0867: #error is a fine; about #warning, there is just the issue of the user interface
20100623 06:17:07-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:18:07-!- Mythological [Mythologic@77.28.93.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100623 06:19:21-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 06:21:22-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:21:33-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 06:21:59-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:23:11-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 06:24:26-!- noy_ [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:24:31-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:24:33-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 06:25:33< shadowm_laptop> I have the following struct: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/npr3FL6K
20100623 06:26:10-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100623 06:26:10-!- noy_ is now known as noy
20100623 06:26:14< shadowm_laptop> can I rely on default constructors for this? that is, if I don't define my own constructors, and I create a new object of this type, will its builtin type members be default-initialized or undefined?
20100623 06:27:41 * Espreon wonders what shadowm_laptop's trying to do
20100623 06:33:56-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-114-248.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:38:48-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:41:31< shadowm_laptop> Espreon: yet another utterly cool thing that users won't be able to appreciate because it cannot be seen.
20100623 06:41:53< Espreon> ... which is...
20100623 06:42:04< shadowm_laptop> so, shoo, nothing to see here for you
20100623 06:42:25< shadowm_laptop> refactoring
20100623 06:44:52< Espreon> Oh...
20100623 06:44:55< Espreon> Bah...
20100623 06:45:49-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 06:46:26-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:47:09-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 06:48:48-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 06:55:19< silene> shadowm_laptop: undefined
20100623 06:55:52< shadowm_laptop> ouch
20100623 07:01:39< CIA-87> upthorn * r43654 /trunk/ (14 files in 2 dirs): Added persist_manager class to handle saving, loading, caching and (not yet implemented) atomic transactions of data.
20100623 07:02:14-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@64.201.60.211] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 07:02:14-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@64.201.60.211] has quit [Changing host]
20100623 07:02:14-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 07:05:44-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 07:20:04< shadowmaster> silene: have you noticed that config cache generation in trunk seems to be slower than in 1.8 lately?
20100623 07:20:31< shadowmaster> much slower
20100623 07:20:49< Espreon> Indeed.
20100623 07:23:09< silene> shadowmaster: no, i haven't; quite the contrary in fact, i'm able to sanely use valgrind on trunk, while i can't on 1.8; so from my point of view, trunk starts much faster
20100623 07:23:20< shadowmaster> not from mine.
20100623 07:23:33< shadowmaster> maybe it has something to do with using -O3 -mtune=native -march=native in my CXXFLAGSS
20100623 07:23:41< silene> please profile it and tell us where wesnoth is stuck
20100623 07:23:50< shadowmaster> zookeeper has also noticed general slowness in the Windows builds.
20100623 07:24:02< shadowmaster> er...profiling sounds kind of scary :P
20100623 07:29:52< ancestral> Hehe
20100623 07:29:55< ancestral> Profiling
20100623 08:04:22-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 08:28:18-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100623 08:29:27-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100623 08:38:28-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 08:46:28-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20100623 08:47:24-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@186.9.24.170] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 08:47:53-!- shadowm_laptop is now known as Guest94093
20100623 08:49:12-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2f562.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Changing host]
20100623 08:49:12-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 08:49:40< Ivanovic> moin
20100623 08:49:46-!- Guest94093 [ignacio@186.9.24.170] has quit [Changing host]
20100623 08:49:46-!- Guest94093 [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 08:50:09-!- Guest94093 is now known as shadowm_laptop
20100623 08:50:09< Espreon> Grüß Gott.
20100623 08:51:43-!- Valkier [~IceChat7@c-174-55-104-2.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: If you can't laugh at yourself, make fun of other people.]
20100623 08:57:50-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin]
20100623 09:00:19-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 09:06:59-!- Blueblazed [~nick@adsl-99-186-64-86.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20100623 09:19:20-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Quit: good night]
20100623 09:23:03-!- euschn [~eugen@wesnoth/developer/euschn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 09:31:05< CIA-87> espreon * r43655 /trunk/ (862 files in 36 dirs): Converted more apostrophes; ran pofix.
20100623 09:35:26< CIA-87> espreon * r43656 /trunk/data/core/units/drakes/ (Hurricane.cfg Sky.cfg): Avoid contractions in comments, so that pofix won't touch them.
20100623 10:07:27-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 10:35:19-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-114-248.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: And that’s the end of THAT chapter.]
20100623 10:40:14-!- stikonas [~and@ctv-79-132-162-160.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 10:40:14-!- stikonas [~and@ctv-79-132-162-160.vinita.lt] has quit [Changing host]
20100623 10:40:14-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 10:44:42-!- qemqemqem [~quassel@cpe-74-74-148-190.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 10:48:07< CIA-87> espreon * r43657 /trunk/data/campaigns/Dead_Water/translations/: Killed an empty directory.
20100623 10:52:29-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...]
20100623 10:55:45-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100623 10:56:04-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 11:01:54< Espreon> Ivanovic: What are the requirements for a new translation to be accepted?
20100623 11:06:52< Espreon> ... and what has to be done before a new font is added?
20100623 11:09:23< Ivanovic> new font: core completed!
20100623 11:09:47< Ivanovic> that is of course the new translation can already depend on the font, but it has to be installed manually
20100623 11:11:35< Espreon> Oh, the language I had in mind would absolutely have to have a new font, but, don't expect anything anytime soon.
20100623 11:12:01< Ivanovic> in general you are free to simply start working it without adding any langcode
20100623 11:12:13< Ivanovic> copy the .pot file to LANGCODE.po and just work on it
20100623 11:12:29< CIA-87> upthorn * r43658 /trunk/src/persist_context.cpp: Fixed a regression in detecting empty config nodes.
20100623 11:12:45< Upthorn> yay, I managed to switch to this window before being highlighted
20100623 11:16:24< Rhonda> *blinks*
20100623 11:19:41< Espreon> Hmmmmm... OK, ang.cfg created, now to commit the fuþorc to memory... and... yeahz.
20100623 11:20:02< Upthorn> hrm. crap, new regression, which is worse.
20100623 11:20:25< Espreon> Oh, wow...
20100623 11:21:27< Upthorn> but in a different place
20100623 11:23:48< Espreon> Ivanovic: How would I wire in a font so that I can play around with my developing translation?
20100623 11:24:06< Ivanovic> Espreon: you simply alter the fonts line in the main textdomain
20100623 11:24:10< Ivanovic> this *should* be enough
20100623 11:24:15< Espreon> OK.
20100623 11:24:18< Ivanovic> placing your font as first entry
20100623 11:25:42< Espreon> Yes, actually seeing Englisc in something modern may actually motivate me...
20100623 11:29:14< Espreon> ... now, if only dfranke were still around.
20100623 11:39:31< Espreon> Ivanovic: Now, what are these codepoints?
20100623 11:39:46< Ivanovic> black vodoo that i got no idea how it works
20100623 11:40:10< Espreon> Damn it.
20100623 11:40:11< Ivanovic> i doN't know how the game will handle a font without cfg file entry (as in "No codepoints listed")
20100623 11:40:13< Ivanovic> it might "just work"
20100623 11:41:19-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 11:45:37-!- loonybot [~loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 11:46:35-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 11:46:46-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100623 11:47:59< Espreon> Ivanovic: Well, it doesn't bitch about codepoints not being provided...
20100623 11:49:51-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 11:53:55-!- euschn [~eugen@wesnoth/developer/euschn] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100623 11:55:34< Upthorn> Either my debug environment is screwed up, or some change within the past week or so slowed graphics initialization to a ridiculous extent
20100623 11:57:22-!- euschn [~eugen@e195-218.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 11:57:24-!- euschn [~eugen@e195-218.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Client Quit]
20100623 12:10:42-!- StandYourGround [~Adium@230.121.55.224.guam.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 12:11:00-!- StandYourGround [~Adium@230.121.55.224.guam.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20100623 12:11:05< Espreon> Byez for nowz...
20100623 12:11:11 * Espreon disappears...
20100623 12:32:33< Upthorn> hrm, looks like the bottleneck is a "while (index >= vector::size()) vector::push_back(empty_item);"
20100623 12:33:16 * Upthorn tries replacing with "if (index >= vector::size()) vector::resize(index + 1, empty_item);"
20100623 13:36:39-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-180-71.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100623 13:37:21< AI0867> 06:06 < silene> AI0867: #error is a fine; about #warning, there is just the issue of the user interface <-- I used WRN_CF, though I guess lg::wml_error might be better once it works everywhere
20100623 13:38:04-!- Gallaecio [~Gallaecio@232.158.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 13:38:54< AI0867> I've had some problems though. I don't seem to be able to distinguish between skipping over a block and processing it. Every time command == "error", skipping_ == 0
20100623 13:41:38-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 13:41:47< AI0867> silene: ^
20100623 13:42:02< silene> AI0867: i know :-) i'm here because i was pointed to it
20100623 13:43:07< silene> AI0867: lg::wml_error is not a good choice; the preprocessor is separate from wml; for instance, it doesn't mean anything when you are displaying the main menu, yet the preprocessor has already been running quite a bit
20100623 13:43:34< silene> i don't understand your issue with splitting
20100623 13:43:43< silene> skipping*
20100623 13:43:51< AI0867> well, lg::wml_error caches everything, but if wesnoth dies before it shows a GUI that empties the stream, it would swallow all the warnings
20100623 13:44:15< AI0867> well, I added a bunch of debug statements
20100623 13:44:25< AI0867> and an #ifdef DEBUG_MODE #error
20100623 13:44:55< AI0867> the conditional for the erroring out code is !skipping_ && command == "error"
20100623 13:45:13< AI0867> but it hits that both with and without --debug being passed on the commandline
20100623 13:45:32< AI0867> it gives different traces of debug statements though
20100623 13:47:20< AI0867> though I've recently also been having trouble with the preprocessor complaining about unexpected #endifS, no idea why
20100623 13:49:49< silene> not sure, perhaps someone broke the preprocessor recently; anyway, skipping_ is the way to go
20100623 13:50:32< AI0867> is it possible that a block is simply reprocessed later on?
20100623 13:51:01< silene> no
20100623 13:51:07< AI0867> okay, that helps
20100623 13:51:58< silene> more precisely, blocks are not processed several times; but a #defined block is processed at inclusion time
20100623 13:52:19< CIA-87> upthorn * r43659 /trunk/src/ (persist_context.cpp persist_context.hpp): fixed regression in removal of empty config nodes which would cause access of invalid memory if those nodes would later need to be created again.
20100623 13:55:52< Upthorn> Crab_: I'm leaving a message for you in the logs that the SP persistence code is ready to be reviewed and tested. I apologize that this took so long.
20100623 13:59:31-!- Crab_ [~Crab@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 13:59:39< Crab_> Upthorn: great
20100623 13:59:54< silene> AI0867: by the way, another reason againt using lg::wml_error: it sorts messages alphabetically (so helpful...)
20100623 14:02:20< Crab_> Upthorn: I'll take a look today. also, I'll have a lot of time to review it, on 28th june.
20100623 14:02:58< Upthorn> I still haven't gotten atomic transactions done, but they aren't needed for single player
20100623 14:03:41< Upthorn> and I think the hardest part will be finding where in playmp_controller to put the persist.start_transaction() and persist.end_transaction() calls.
20100623 14:04:07< Crab_> Upthorn: yes, not needed for SP. you'll try to do the 'User ability to manage persistence data' part, right ?
20100623 14:04:29< Upthorn> yes. But I am going to need help figuring out how to work the GUI.
20100623 14:04:50< Upthorn> or at least wiki API documentation
20100623 14:05:32< Crab_> Upthorn: it's better to use gui2 for that. mordante is the person to talk about gui2. it's quite easy and pleasant. you can take a look at the gamestate_inspector - it's a small gui2 dialog I've coded last year.
20100623 14:06:20< Crab_> in general, you code a .cfg with the dialog layout, you code a c++ class for the dialog, you 'register' this dialog in a list, you construct this dialog somewhere.
20100623 14:06:35< Crab_> a simplest way, for now, is to add a new in-game console command to show this dialog.
20100623 14:09:45< Crab_> see src\gui\dialogs\gamestate_inspector.?pp,  note the REGISTER_WINDOW(gamestate_inspector) macro, and see  data\gui\default\window\gamestate_inspector.cfg
20100623 14:10:51< Crab_> and, for the console command, see src\menu_events.cpp , console_handler::do_inspect()
20100623 14:12:08< Crab_> gui uses 'grid layout' - basically, entire 'space' is divided into a grid, and we can tell, via a WML .cfg file, how individual cells scale themselves and how wide/tall they are, and what they contain.
20100623 14:14:15-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 14:16:35-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 14:17:01< Upthorn> that does sound handy
20100623 14:21:02< Crab_> my usual approach is to get a large sheet of paper, and 'design' the dialog via a pencil, write down the sizes, scaling proportions, etc. then ,it's easy to gradually code it in wml.
20100623 14:21:19< Crab_> nice point: you don't have to recompile to use the new layout :)
20100623 14:24:20< Upthorn> that seems similar to winapi dialog resource files, except that those require re-linking
20100623 14:48:04-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100623 14:59:43-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 15:09:04-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 15:10:08-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 15:14:17-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 15:14:43-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 15:19:10-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 15:19:40-!- DesertPanther [~Khalid@unaffiliated/desertpanther] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 15:20:19-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 15:40:35-!- Valkier [~IceChat7@c-174-55-104-2.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 15:41:01-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 15:42:20-!- euschn [~eugen@wesnoth/developer/euschn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 15:47:29-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 15:49:43-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 15:52:29-!- Gambit [~quassel@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 16:07:54-!- _jbx_ [~jbailey@12.190.80.225] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 16:11:13-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 16:19:38-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-114-248.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 16:22:15-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20100623 16:33:04-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 16:33:14-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 16:35:02-!- e_s-iOS_ [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 16:35:02-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 16:35:02-!- Bocom [~Bocom@c-b7cfe255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 16:35:02-!- e_s-iOS_ is now known as e_s-iOS
20100623 16:56:39-!- Crab_ [~Crab@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
20100623 16:57:54-!- euschn [~eugen@wesnoth/developer/euschn] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100623 17:09:50-!- Gallaecio [~Gallaecio@232.158.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 17:09:52-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 17:11:57-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 17:12:32-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 17:12:43-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 17:16:15-!- Bocom [~Bocom@c-b7cfe255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 17:17:55-!- Bocom_ [~Bocom@c-b7cfe255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 17:17:56-!- Bocom [~Bocom@c-b7cfe255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 17:20:46-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 17:26:21-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 17:37:14< Soliton> is it possible for an object to (reasonably easy) decide whether it lives on the stack or the heap?
20100623 17:42:01< Espreon> Sigh, Englisc needs GUI2...
20100623 17:44:26-!- koan [~koan@unaffiliated/koan] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 17:44:48< Espreon> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Soccer_football.png
20100623 17:44:52< Espreon> Whoops.
20100623 17:45:00< Espreon> Wrong channel.
20100623 17:47:02< CIA-87> ai0867 * r43660 /trunk/ (changelog data/scenario-test.cfg src/game_events.cpp): Allow [case] value to take comma-separated values
20100623 17:53:17 * Espreon is really sad...
20100623 17:55:49-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100623 18:03:10-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 18:21:41-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100623 18:23:36< elias> Soliton: comparing the pointer would work most likely
20100623 18:23:43< elias> but what would you do with such info?
20100623 18:24:23< elias> int a; if (abs(object - &a) < 10000) /* lives on the stack */
20100623 18:24:37< elias> so if it's within 10kb os a local variable, you can be quite sure it's on the stack
20100623 18:25:29-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 18:44:40-!- Blueblaze [~nick@adsl-99-186-64-86.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 18:55:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 19:01:16-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 19:02:20-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 19:34:48-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 19:42:41-!- billynux [d073d2d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.115.210.210] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 19:42:41-!- billynux [d073d2d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.115.210.210] has quit [Changing host]
20100623 19:42:41-!- billynux [d073d2d2@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 19:51:37-!- qemqemqem____ [~quassel@cpe-74-74-148-190.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 19:51:56-!- billynux [d073d2d2@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100623 19:52:18-!- qemqemqem [~quassel@cpe-74-74-148-190.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100623 19:55:37-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 20:03:53-!- billynux [d073d2d2@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 20:14:22-!- Aethaery1 [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 20:15:00-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100623 20:16:44-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 20:17:10-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100623 20:17:16< boucman> hey all
20100623 20:17:36-!- billynux [d073d2d2@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100623 20:17:42-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 20:18:22-!- Aethaery1 is now known as Aethaeryn
20100623 20:18:51-!- Bocom_ [~Bocom@c-b7cfe255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 20:18:56-!- Bocom [~Bocom@c-b7cfe255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 20:24:26-!- phlaem [~a@e178100031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 20:36:36< CIA-87> boucman * r43661 /trunk/src/ (unit_animation.cpp unit_display.cpp): set animation mvt to 110
20100623 20:42:44-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 20:50:12-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 20:58:04-!- e_s-iOS [~esios@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: e_s-iOS]
20100623 20:59:00-!- timotei [~timo@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:00:43-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-114-248.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ancestral]
20100623 21:01:54-!- yann [~dwitch@nan92-1-81-57-214-146.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:03:23-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-65-228.telecom.by] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:09:37-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:09:43< gabba> bonjour
20100623 21:09:57< boucman> salut gabba
20100623 21:10:05< gabba> salut boucman
20100623 21:10:06< boucman> so, how is it going ?
20100623 21:11:00-!- King_Elendil [~King_Elen@75.143.233.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100623 21:11:35-!- stikonas_ [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:11:54< gabba> boucman: today, besides reading alink's answer on the ML, I'll be reverting code to the previous method where the temp changes are only applied in specific places
20100623 21:12:31-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100623 21:12:43< gabba> boucman: what I don't know yet is which interface I'm gonna target while doing that (A, B, or implement both?), so hopefully the reading will prove enlightening.
20100623 21:13:16< boucman> it is quite enlighting indeed, read it and we'll discuss it after that
20100623 21:15:28< gabba> boucman: as far as scheduling goes, I'm gonna take friday off, but work sat. and sun. two weekends from now to make up for yesterday and friday.
20100623 21:15:51-!- stikonas_ [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100623 21:15:54< boucman> ok, I was wondering about that...
20100623 21:16:30< boucman> that would be the WE of the 9 and 10 if I count correctly
20100623 21:16:51< gabba> yes, that w-e
20100623 21:17:04< boucman> ok, good I should be around
20100623 21:18:11< gabba> monday wasn't really productive either, but I worked last sunday in prevision of that... our national feastday is coming (23 evening and on the 24), so everybody is going crazy organizing parties and it's pretty distracting.
20100623 21:19:03< boucman> gabba: i'm more interesting on how much we advance than exactly when you are working, 
20100623 21:20:03< gabba> just thought I'd keep you informed
20100623 21:20:06< boucman> we have a mid term evaluation at ~15 july, and we should be a little behind schedule at that point (nothing to serious considering the problems we uncovered wrt interfacing with the game)
20100623 21:20:12< boucman> gabba: yes, please do, 
20100623 21:20:59< boucman> but again i'm more looking at planning, if you want to shuffle around your work/rest days that fine with me... as long as things get done
20100623 21:21:07< gabba> good
20100623 21:21:21 * gabba is off reading
20100623 21:26:24-!- alink [~alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:26:28< alink> hi
20100623 21:27:18< gabba> hi alink, thanks for answering on the ML, I'm reading it right now
20100623 21:27:58< alink> gabba: you are welcome, and sry for the long mail
20100623 21:28:21< gabba> alink: mine was long too, so what can I expect :P
20100623 21:28:45< Soliton> elias: the object registers itself with a manager that might delete it at some point which is not a good idea when it's on the stack. so it could print a warning or something when it figures out it's on the stack.
20100623 21:31:21< elias> but how does the manager decide to delete it?
20100623 21:31:39< elias> even if it's not on the stack it might be a bad idea to delete it :P
20100623 21:32:44< Soliton> if the manager is deleted it simple deletes all registered children.
20100623 21:33:16< Soliton> and yes, the current design isn't perfect as much as i understand it so far.
20100623 21:33:28-!- ancestral [~ancestral@64.134.159.113] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:34:05< gabba> alink: when you say "use real units for a certain point of time of the WB history", do you mean a single unit at a time would be using a real unit?
20100623 21:34:53< elias> Soliton: yeah, comparing the pointer would only be a hack of course :P
20100623 21:35:05-!- ancestral [~ancestral@64.134.159.113] has quit [Client Quit]
20100623 21:35:17< elias> would have to test, but i'm quite sure you could notice a pattern how everything allocated from the heap has different addresses
20100623 21:35:18< Soliton> sure, i understand.
20100623 21:35:19< alink> gabba: no, i mean animate 5 WB actions and use real units for the result
20100623 21:35:22-!- ancestral [~ancestral@64.134.159.113] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:35:30< elias> another platform or compiler might change that though :P
20100623 21:36:36< alink> gabba: to illustrate: A use real unit on the state before animating all WB actions, and B on the state after animating all of them
20100623 21:37:25< alink> gabba: animating here means update the game state to the new position(s) and consider that to be the 'real' current one
20100623 21:38:12< alink> (but still not executing anything)
20100623 21:38:45< boucman> alink: i'm afraid this way of doing stuff won't be very clear for user and won't have much added value compared to either A and B
20100623 21:39:41-!- Bocom [~Bocom@c-b7cfe255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar]
20100623 21:40:05-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:40:26< alink> maybe, it depends, it will make some complex cases more clear I think, but indeed it may add complexity for the simplest cases too
20100623 21:40:47-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:41:11< silene> Soliton: define for your class an operator new() that sets a static global boolean, and asserts that the boolean is set in the constructor
20100623 21:41:18< boucman> alink: yes... and i am personally inclined to favor simplicity of the UI in that case... 
20100623 21:42:00< alink> boucman: but I suspect it could be consider simpler, depending how you present it
20100623 21:42:03< gabba> alink: does this address the problem of WML events? It seems to me that with your solution, we still have the problem of units 1, 2, 3, 4 being visually at fictive positions, and when 1's move gets executed, if a wml event happens they'll visually "jump back" to their real positions.
20100623 21:42:38< gabba> ambush is not *that* bad I think, because it only affects one unit at a time
20100623 21:42:52< boucman> gabba: well, I don't think we can avoid having to "animate on execute" somehow, whatever way we go
20100623 21:43:53< boucman> gabba,alink ;ok, I might have a proposal, tell me what you think
20100623 21:43:54< gabba> boucman: that favors prototype A, since fast experienced players will probably be annoyed with animating twice
20100623 21:43:56< alink> gabba: I suggest that when you start executing action, you automatically put the "active point of time of the history" to the beginning, so all units will be shown real at their real position 
20100623 21:44:21-!- Bocom [~Bocom@c-b7cfe255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:44:51< boucman> proposal doesn't take into account how to implement, i'm only considering the UI aspect
20100623 21:44:52< gabba> alink: it might work, but I guess we'd need some kind of animation for that... won't all units jumping back be jarring visually?
20100623 21:45:15< boucman> basically, we want to have B while planning and A while executing...
20100623 21:46:04< alink> gabba: we may skip animation for automatic fast rewind. ghost will become real, and real will become ghost in one step
20100623 21:46:11< boucman> well, we could dynamically switch from B to A when executing (maybe with a smooth transition) and stay in A until the user starts adding new actions (by selecting a unit for example)
20100623 21:46:28< alink> gabba: animation is mainly useful when going forward or reverting one move
20100623 21:47:49< gabba> boucman: ok, and how do you picture switching back to B when adding a new action? Same as alink is saying for B->A, just instantly swap real/ghost?
20100623 21:48:30< boucman> I could probably add a ghost_in and ghost_out animation to the unit class :)
20100623 21:48:45< boucman> fading in/out of full color/full transparency
20100623 21:49:39< alink> gabba: if you use key to make go forward/backward the current point of time, we can replay all actions. this allow the user to insert his new action where he want in the history
20100623 21:49:45< gabba> boucman: that would certainly help
20100623 21:50:40< boucman> alink: I like your idea, that's a good way to add "in the middle" action...
20100623 21:50:53< gabba> alink: that's a nice feature. I already had plans for such back/forward behavior, but up to now I thought of it as only hiding actions after the current point in time
20100623 21:50:58< boucman> i'll keep it in mind when we tackle that particular UI problem, but we are a bit early for that
20100623 21:51:18-!- stikonas_ [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:52:10< alink> But I suspect that I failed to explain my virtual undo/redo point of view. Ignoring arrows and ghost. I was mainly suggesting to use whiteboard as we already use delay shroud update. That is move your units normaly, but don't really do any action changing something. So you can always undo.
20100623 21:52:43< alink> the arrow and ghost would be only there to show the undo/redo history
20100623 21:53:02< boucman> well, WB could be seen as a "super undo" that allows you to plan beyond fights by not actually doing them, but it's a bit reductive and we want to have a better UI than that...
20100623 21:53:18< alink> and when executing, just really replay the virtual undo stack
20100623 21:53:35< boucman> alink: yes, that was my idea behind proposal B, though I never expressed it that clearly
20100623 21:53:49-!- qemqemqem_ [~quassel@cpe-74-74-148-190.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 21:54:10< gabba> alink: I understand your concept; basically it formalizes what we already had in mind
20100623 21:54:52-!- qemqemqem____ [~quassel@cpe-74-74-148-190.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100623 21:55:27< alink> yes, probably, but I think I insist more on the 'active' point of the undo history. With old undo is the only one visible. With WB i propose to be the only one using 'real' units
20100623 21:55:31< gabba> btw, chains had the interesting idea of using the undo key for both real and planned moves: i.e. 'u' deletes planned actions when there are any, and then undoes moves as usual.
20100623 21:56:14< boucman> that's a good idea... if we go with alink's proposal of inserting, using the old undo/redo shortcuts would make sense...
20100623 21:56:30< alink> gabba: indeed, seems to make sense
20100623 21:57:44< gabba> boucman: well, except that if 'u' *deletes* planned actions, no inserting will take place... we'd need a separate back/forward set of keys
20100623 21:58:33< boucman> well, yes, I implicitely expanded the "u" semantic to "go back in the planned action stack"
20100623 21:58:44< alink> gabba: ah no, i wished that, in WB, 'u' move the 'current' point of history 
20100623 21:59:06< alink> the same way that old undo don't delete the action, since redo can restore it
20100623 21:59:06< gabba> ok, I get it
20100623 22:00:49< boucman> so, do we all like the A to B switching Idea I offered ?
20100623 22:01:00< boucman> is it realistic ? (assuming I add the proper animations)
20100623 22:02:28< alink> boucman: as a default behavior, it's simple and still compatible with more advanced possibilities. So yes seems ok to me. 
20100623 22:02:41< gabba> boucman: let's see, to summarize, the difference between your idea and alink's is that you want to keep the "current point in time" always at the end of the queue, at least for now?
20100623 22:04:09< boucman> gabba: i'm not completely clear with alink's proposal (feel free to correct me) but no, that's not the main difference
20100623 22:05:03< boucman> 1) I like the idea of moving the "current point in time" that was not in my idea, but it's a great idea that is compatible with mine, so i'd gladly adopt it... Though I agree with the "not for now" part... let's tackle one problem at the time
20100623 22:05:49< boucman> 2) IIUC alink's proposal would mix A and B, B for "before the current point" and A for "after the current point"
20100623 22:06:16< boucman> mine wouldn't display the actions after the current point at all (it would keep them in memory for the redo logic) 
20100623 22:06:47< gabba> boucman: ok, that's pretty much what I understood, we're on the same page
20100623 22:07:04< boucman> it would switch between A display mode and B display mode when the user executes a move, and stay in B mode until the player plans a move
20100623 22:07:51< boucman> that way all units get back to their "real" position in a smooth way on execution, and stay there until the player wants to plan some more...
20100623 22:08:01< gabba> for undo I'm not 100% sure what to do though, since if you plan moves and then accidentally execute, you'll probably want undo to cancel the execution (if possible at all)
20100623 22:08:18< alink> boucman: you mean switch to A when the user start to really execute his moves, right
20100623 22:08:19< boucman> gabba: let's not worry about that for the moment...
20100623 22:08:27< gabba> ok
20100623 22:08:44< boucman> alink: which one is A and B again ? :P
20100623 22:09:05< gabba> A=ghost is future, B=real unit is future
20100623 22:09:08< boucman> I might have mixed up, I meant the one for planning while planning and the one reflecting the real situation when executing
20100623 22:09:22< alink> boucman: ok we agree then
20100623 22:09:25< boucman> ok, i'll try to keep it in mind :P
20100623 22:09:53< boucman> great, I think that's a pretty good UI to go for, then
20100623 22:10:14< gabba> We could name the proposals instead to make them easier to memorize... Angela and Barbara? :D
20100623 22:10:33< alink> or I my point of view. A=  First action is current (use real units); B last action is current
20100623 22:11:00< alink> *with my point of view
20100623 22:11:07< boucman> alink: I'll remember to look at 22:09 before speaking :P
20100623 22:11:58-!- Ken_Oh [~briang@static-71-178-174-220.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100623 22:13:39< gabba> boucman: I'll go with your idea. Maybe the interface should switch back to B automatically when moves are done executing though? I'm still trying to picture it.
20100623 22:14:47< boucman> my insting tells me not to, to let the player assess the new situation a little and to avoid switching back and forth too much when the player execute multiple actions in a row... but that's something that can be adjusted on user feedback
20100623 22:14:53< alink> "when moves are done executing"-> usually that means that the history is empty, and then  A=B, I think
20100623 22:14:54< boucman>  /insting/instinct
20100623 22:15:11< alink> (if all did go as planned)
20100623 22:15:33< boucman> well, alreathing according to plan is quite uncommon in war :P
20100623 22:15:53 * boucman has keyboard dyslexia today
20100623 22:16:00< alink> indeed, (see RNG threads)
20100623 22:18:18< gabba> alink: executing will always stop after an attack, so if players plan beyond the next attack you won't get A=B
20100623 22:18:30< boucman> but yes, if we completely empty the planned_moves stack, A=B since there is no arrows at all
20100623 22:19:12< boucman> gabba: my personal assumption is that player will rather repetitively press X than use an "auto execute until fight feature"
20100623 22:19:27< boucman> the feeling of control and all that (not to mention for/WML events)
20100623 22:19:53< alink> gabba: I took "when moves are done" means when all moves are done. If some actions are not yet executed, then moves are not done :-p
20100623 22:20:24< gabba> bad choice of workds on my part, sry
20100623 22:20:32< gabba> s/workds/words
20100623 22:20:45< alink> anyway, it's also why i suggested this "use real units for a 'current' point of history" this allows to still tweak this after testing and don't force you to support only one mode (A or B)
20100623 22:22:39< alink> and for the coding, I was thinking 'parse' the WB history to generate arrow and ghosts. And use temporary unit_map modifiers to update the unit_map to the 'current' point of history (using only actions before 'current' in history)
20100623 22:22:52-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 22:25:11< alink> using that should make A and B (or intermediate state) equivalent to code. Just need to change the 'current' pointer to start or end
20100623 22:27:44< boucman> alink: only if you display arrows "after" the current point in time, which (I think) would be confusing
20100623 22:28:36< timotei> zookeeper: hey
20100623 22:28:57< alink> boucman: I think it's needed, when, after an interruption, you need to decide if  you want to continue executing the WB plan or not. That's mainly why I said that A was also needed
20100623 22:29:07< timotei> zookeeper: is there any difference (in behavior) between: name=_ "aa" and name= _"aa" and name=_"aa" ?
20100623 22:30:37-!- ancestral [~ancestral@64.134.159.113] has quit [Quit: ancestral]
20100623 22:31:04< alink> boucman: that said, you may differentiate past and future visually 
20100623 22:31:31< gabba> alink: you didn't really explain how you expect action execution to work out visually, in your proposal. Revert completely to A first, as Boucman was saying?
20100623 22:31:58< alink> gabba: yes that what i had in mind
20100623 22:32:17< gabba> and then animate all actions the regular way, I guess
20100623 22:32:25< timotei> AI0867: hey
20100623 22:32:42< alink> gabba: yes since you want to animate fight and death too
20100623 22:32:46< timotei> AI0867: in the schema, identifier="re ^[a-zA-Z0-9_ ]+$" , does the identifier allow spaces?
20100623 22:33:00< timotei> AI0867: isn't that a bit weird?
20100623 22:35:37< gabba> alink, boucman: both your proposals seem to imply animating each move twice. I'm not sure it's avoidable (unless we scrap everything and go with A all the way), but it could be problem for adoption for players with this mindset: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=424985#p424985
20100623 22:37:14< alink> make a WB pleasing people wanting "quick and dirty" seems hard to do
20100623 22:37:39< gabba> true...
20100623 22:37:40< boucman> gabba: i'm not good enough to say if this should be dismissed as a beginner, if it's an alternative playing style, or if it's an issue for everybody
20100623 22:37:49< alink> gabba: not that shift (accelerate animation) already work with current WB
20100623 22:38:18< boucman> we can keep a backward "undo compatible" mode, or give them the habit of repetitively pressing X :P
20100623 22:38:58< alink> s/not/note
20100623 22:40:37< gabba> It's true that plan and then execute will always be a bit heavier than "move first and worry about it later" that undo+delay shroud updates allow you to do. I'll try accelerating the second animation with shift to see if it helps.
20100623 22:40:46-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-65-228.telecom.by] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 22:41:35< alink> gabba: you may also play the planing phase at 2x speed, or similar tweaks
20100623 22:42:46< gabba> I realize that what I would *really* have wanted to do is extend the undo system to *everything*... but yeah, not realistic apparently.
20100623 22:42:51-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-65-228.telecom.by] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 22:48:04< zookeeper> timotei, no difference
20100623 22:48:15< timotei> zookeeper: ok thanks
20100623 22:48:38< alink> gabba: btw about keyboard-less UI, I am not sure that theme update are fast enough, but have you checked the replay topbar? (Replay actions are similar to WB actions)
20100623 22:49:42< alink> it could also provide a nice UI clue indicating that you are in WB mode (when you didn't make a WB move yet)
20100623 22:50:39< alink> gabba: but I warn you, theme stuff can be irritating sometimes :-/
20100623 22:50:54-!- billynux [~billy@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 22:51:35< gabba> alink: very true about the UI clue. I thought about those controls for the back/forward thing I mentioned. If I can also integrate execute, delete and other needed interaction in such a UI, it could be a good solution.
20100623 22:52:01-!- Upth [ogmar@adsl-75-26-188-141.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 22:52:09< gabba> I don't know anything about the theme stuff, yet.
20100623 22:52:30< boucman> I must admit I had them on the back on my mind too...
20100623 22:52:47< alink> gabba: yeah, I mean, having an extra bar could be useful for extra button or extra info
20100623 22:52:52< boucman> though my main idea was that kbd shortcuts would be enough for our beta-testers
20100623 22:53:22< gabba> boucman: of course
20100623 22:54:38< alink> boucman: yes, sure, I was speaking about log-term future plans, and didn't want to add that in my answer to the dev-ml (where the question was asked)
20100623 22:54:52< alink> *long-term
20100623 22:55:15-!- Upthorn [ogmar@adsl-75-26-206-73.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20100623 22:55:21-!- stikonas_ [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 22:56:26< alink> I had also some ideas for arrows, but it would be for another time. I briefly afk now
20100623 22:57:04-!- Upthorn [ogmar@adsl-75-26-200-123.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 23:00:03-!- Upth [ogmar@adsl-75-26-188-141.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20100623 23:03:48-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-65-228.telecom.by] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 23:05:06-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 23:05:14< boucman> gabba: I have to admit these few ideas from alink really sound good, I don't know about you but I felt stuck in the last couple of days...
20100623 23:06:14-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 23:06:25-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 23:07:57-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 23:10:09< gabba> boucman: yes, he was very helpful. I felt stuck too. Actually I hope that more people (maybe noy if someone can make builds for him after all?) will chime in on the ML, but at least now I have a clear goal.
20100623 23:11:09-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100623 23:11:52< boucman> yes, from a UI point of view, we can push our prototype further with that, :)
20100623 23:12:44-!- stikonas_ [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 23:15:08-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 23:16:15-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...]
20100623 23:16:44-!- timotei [~timo@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 23:19:22-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@131.181.100.34] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 23:29:16-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100623 23:31:44-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20100623 23:32:29-!- stikonas_ [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20100623 23:33:48< boucman> night all
20100623 23:33:55-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100623 23:33:59-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100623 23:35:15-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 131 bugs, 280 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100623 23:35:32-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-114-248.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100623 23:48:11-!- _jbx_ [~jbailey@12.190.80.225] has quit [Quit: Dig that hole, forget the sun.]
20100623 23:54:26-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
--- Log closed Thu Jun 24 00:00:18 2010