--- Log opened Tue Jun 29 00:00:01 2010
--- Day changed Tue Jun 29 2010
20100629 00:00:01< gabba> ^I think there are several issues there, one of them being that some redrawing of the arrows happens when the future unit map is used, leading to disappearing/reappearing units
20100629 00:01:21< boucman> gabba: that's an area I know quite well, we'll have a look together when I have more time, right now it's only a visual glitch, so nothing to worry about
20100629 00:02:18< gabba> Ok, we'll look at it together when you have more time. But I'll probably end up needing to write more code for unit selection and path definition.
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20100629 00:04:19< gabba> ^^I'll keep in mind the idea of the static member as well
20100629 00:04:47< gabba> That's about it for the discussion part, I think I can get to coding
20100629 00:07:13< boucman> ok, good
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20100629 00:46:57< Bob_The_Mighty> I can't quite work out which filter i need to make a moveto event trigger when a unit goes to a hex adjacent to a certain type of terrain. Anyone?
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20100629 01:28:53< Elvish_Pillager> Bob_The_Mighty: [filter] [filter_location] [filter_adjacent_location] terrain=foo
20100629 01:29:23< Bob_The_Mighty> okay, thanks, it was the sort of thing i've probably done before, but forgotten
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20100629 02:01:04< shadowm_laptop> where the hell is esr when an artist is working in one of the campaigns he mainlined?
20100629 02:03:35< Valkier> He is just terrified.
20100629 02:03:44< Valkier> Terrified of how amazing I'm failing to be!
20100629 02:06:06< shadowm_laptop> he doesn't even watch the forums so I doubt he has any idea about what's going on
20100629 02:06:17< Valkier> lol
20100629 02:06:24< shadowm_laptop> which is...bad. Of course, you could go ahead without his input.
20100629 02:06:40< Valkier> Well, I kind of have to for a bit. :-(
20100629 02:06:48< Valkier> But I'm choosing some safe ones first.
20100629 02:07:01< Valkier> I figure I'll do the dwarf guy next. Hard to screw that up.
20100629 02:07:34< Espreon> Valkier: Put an Easter Egg in the portrait... written in Elder Fuþark.
20100629 02:07:37< shadowm_laptop> yeah, well, DUHH worked on his (newer) portrait for the sequel, THoT
20100629 02:07:40< Espreon> 'Twill be amusing.
20100629 02:08:04< Valkier> And I guess there's a second ancient lich to do as well.
20100629 02:08:21< shadowm_laptop> of course that portrait is not usable since it depicts him somewhat older and sitting on his throne
20100629 02:08:25< shadowm_laptop> for NR, I mean
20100629 02:08:28< Valkier> Ahh
20100629 02:08:49< shadowm_laptop> I mean the Hamel portrait in THoT, of course
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20100629 02:09:01< Valkier> Which character? Hammel?
20100629 02:09:13< shadowm_laptop> Lord Hamel
20100629 02:09:32< Valkier> I am going to make him a tiny armored beast.
20100629 02:10:02< shadowm_laptop> actually, he doesn't look old in that portrait
20100629 02:10:17< shadowm_laptop> uh and I really don't know what's the time difference between NR's epilogue and THoT's first scenario (esr???!)
20100629 02:10:31< Valkier> For some reason he makes me think of a bearded lady in this portrait. http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/images/portraits/Hamel.png?rev=32312
20100629 02:10:57< shadowm_laptop> shikadibot: file /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/images/portraits/hamel.png
20100629 02:10:57< shikadibot> Web interface URL to file /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/images/portraits/hamel.png: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/images/portraits/hamel.png?view=markup
20100629 02:11:28< Valkier> Oh yeah. The sitting dwarf with awkward lighting.
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20100629 04:11:00< CIA-87> eleazar * r43772 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/unwalkable/chasm-concave-bl.png: fixed concave chasm edge that bit too far into the land.
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20100629 05:06:10< CIA-87> espreon * r43773 /trunk/ (56 files in 3 dirs): Converted the last straight apostrophes in AoI; ran pofix.
20100629 05:12:49< CIA-87> eleazar * r43774 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/unwalkable/ (7 files): some enhanced chasm transition, and two alternates, which currently macroes don't support.
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20100629 09:02:50< Ivanovic> moin
20100629 09:03:11< Espreon> Grüß Gott.
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20100629 09:54:43< Rhonda> server reboot in 6 minutes
20100629 09:56:07< shadowmaster> filthy lies
20100629 09:56:18< shadowmaster> it just told me it was going to reboot in 5 minutes
20100629 09:56:27< shadowmaster> I mean 4.
20100629 09:57:35< Rhonda> ITYM 3
20100629 09:59:50< shadowmaster> 10 seconds
--- Log opened Tue Jun 29 10:02:12 2010
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20100629 10:02:20-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 133 bugs, 281 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100629 10:02:20-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] [Mon Jun 28 08:32:33 2010]
20100629 10:02:20[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20100629 10:02:20[ ABCD        ] [ elias    ] [ iwaim_        ] [ shikadibot] 
20100629 10:02:20[ AI0867      ] [ erl      ] [ knotwork      ] [ Sirp      ] 
20100629 10:02:20[ akeenanr    ] [ Espreon  ] [ koan          ] [ Smar      ] 
20100629 10:02:20[ AnMaster    ] [ ettin    ] [ lobby         ] [ stikonas  ] 
20100629 10:02:20[ apoi        ] [ fendrin  ] [ mjs-de        ] [ Tigge     ] 
20100629 10:02:20[ Appleman1234] [ freim    ] [ mordocai      ] [ Tycale    ] 
20100629 10:02:20[ Blarumyrran ] [ Greywhind] [ nguyenatto    ] [ Upth      ] 
20100629 10:02:20[ Blueblaze   ] [ grzywacz ] [ noy           ] [ Vetinari_ ] 
20100629 10:02:20[ Bocom       ] [ happygrue] [ Polarina_     ] [ wesbot    ] 
20100629 10:02:20[ chris|      ] [ Ingmar   ] [ Rhonda        ] [ yann      ] 
20100629 10:02:20[ CIA-87      ] [ isaac    ] [ shadowm_laptop] [ zookeeper ] 
20100629 10:02:20[ eleazar     ] [ Ivanovic ] [ shadowmaster  ] 
20100629 10:02:20-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 47 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 47 normal]
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20100629 10:02:32< Rhonda> Thanks for your attention, everything back to normal. :)
20100629 10:02:39-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20100629 10:03:31< shadowmaster> too bad we never have a countdown for those unexpected restarts (mainly because they are, well, unexpected)
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20100629 10:06:46< Soliton> surely with the new kernel things will work perfectly now.
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20100629 10:41:10< CIA-87> gabba * r43775 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (5 files): Whiteboard: some infrastructure for the switching between present and future view of unit positions
20100629 10:41:18< CIA-87> gabba * r43776 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (manager.cpp side_actions.cpp side_actions.hpp): Whiteboard: switch between present and future view of unit positions when executing moves
20100629 10:41:26< CIA-87> gabba * r43777 /trunk/src/whiteboard/move.cpp: Animate move when executing
20100629 10:41:33< CIA-87> gabba * r43778 /trunk/src/whiteboard/manager.cpp: Whiteboard: test: automatically reset back to future view after executing
20100629 10:41:38< CIA-87> gabba * r43779 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (manager.cpp move.cpp side_actions.cpp): Whiteboard: correct attribution of ghosted/standing animations; cleanup of redundant code.
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20100629 11:01:33< CIA-87> gabba * r43780 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (manager.cpp move.cpp): Whiteboard: moved some code to move.cpp; cleanup of redundant code.
20100629 11:16:33< Ivanovic> Soliton: and pigs grow wings and can fly
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20100629 11:16:48< Ivanovic> hmm, wait, is this actually a pig flying close to my window?
20100629 11:16:50< Ivanovic> ;)
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20100629 14:27:43< Upthorn> hrm
20100629 14:28:05< Upthorn> I think I've forgotten how to bring up the console in wesnoth.  I press the `~ key and nothing happens
20100629 14:28:27< Ivanovic> :
20100629 14:28:36< Ivanovic> "think vim"
20100629 14:28:38< Ivanovic> ;)
20100629 14:28:42< Upthorn> I don't use vim
20100629 14:29:21< Ivanovic> that is: the key is even defined with the hotkey dialog stuff
20100629 14:29:31< Ivanovic> so yeah, you can set it to ~ if you please
20100629 14:29:51< Upthorn> I was looking in hotkey
20100629 14:30:06< Upthorn> but I didn't see a "console" option, so I was looking for whatever had its key set to ~
20100629 14:33:00< Ivanovic> it is not console, since there is no "console app"
20100629 14:33:09< Ivanovic> just look for the colon
20100629 14:33:18< Ivanovic> it is something like commandline or the likes
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20100629 17:02:11< CIA-87> eleazar * r43781 /trunk/ (12 files in 2 dirs): Two new flag styles by breadman and doofus-01. Not wired in to anything since i don't know how to do that, and no doubt there are many opinions.
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20100629 19:33:32< Elvish_Pillager> [delay] - it freezes the graphics while the delay is happening. Is there an approved way to make the game wait for a short time while allowing animations (e.g. the rising damage/healing values) to continue? (I guess I could give a unit a dummy animation that takes a certain amount of time and use [animate_unit])
20100629 19:34:11< zookeeper> not that i know of
20100629 19:34:29< zookeeper> i hadn't thought of the dummy animation actually, i guess that's your best bet
20100629 19:36:11< Elvish_Pillager> ooh, that would make it scale with accelerated speed too
20100629 19:36:20< Elvish_Pillager> or would it...?
20100629 19:36:24< zookeeper> yes
20100629 19:36:49< Elvish_Pillager> but idle animations don't
20100629 19:37:01< Elvish_Pillager> or are those a special exception?
20100629 19:37:58< zookeeper> yeah, they don't get accelerated
20100629 19:38:56< zookeeper> likely a hardcoded exception to [idle_anim] and [standing_anim] since there's no key controlling it
20100629 19:40:29< Elvish_Pillager> hmm. this technique has the slight problem that triggering an animation also scrolls to the unit, so I'd have to be careful about that
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20100629 20:00:11< billynux> Anyone with experience in boost::variant?
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20100629 20:06:16< loonycyborg> billynux: I have used it
20100629 20:06:52< billynux> loonycyborg, thanks, I was trying to use get as a member function of a variant object
20100629 20:06:59< billynux> turns out get is in the boost namespace
20100629 20:07:08< billynux> and can take a variant object as argument
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20100629 20:08:38< billynux> so... it was boost::get<T>( variant_obj ); instead of variant_obj.get<T>(); <- this was my problem
20100629 20:09:19< loonycyborg> I generally prefer visitors :P
20100629 20:09:46-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100629 20:10:02< loonycyborg> You'd be sure that you've handled all possibilities that way.
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20100629 20:11:17< billynux> well, this particular code is very simple, I set a flag at construction time to know which type it holds
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20100629 20:17:43< crimson_penguin> loonycyborg: so for Frogatto there's also a couple instances of strtoll that have to be changed to strtol, which I just did locally and didn't commit, since making an ifdef for that seemed annoying (because it'd duplicate the whole line)
20100629 20:17:58< crimson_penguin> could maybe #define strtoll strtol though
20100629 20:18:21< loonycyborg> crimson_penguin: It compiled for me fine without any sourcecode changes.
20100629 20:18:28< crimson_penguin> really?
20100629 20:18:30< crimson_penguin> that's odd
20100629 20:18:37< crimson_penguin> wait, are you using VC++?
20100629 20:18:40< crimson_penguin> I'm using VC++
20100629 20:18:41< loonycyborg> Yes. Both on windows and on linux.
20100629 20:18:48< loonycyborg> I'm using mingw.
20100629 20:18:55< crimson_penguin> Oh ok, well that'd explain it then
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20100629 20:22:27< crimson_penguin> loonycyborg: preferences.cpp uses the macro PREFERENCES_PATH, and its use is basically identical to Wesnoth's similarly named macro (I forget what it's called; the userdata dir)
20100629 20:22:35< crimson_penguin> so for instance, on Mac I have -DPREFERENCES_PATH='"~/Library/Application Support/Frogatto/"'
20100629 20:29:31< Elvish_Pillager> In an animation, [frame] always displays its image upright, but an [xxx_frame] flips its image based on the direction the unit is facing. Is there some key that will make my [xxx_frame]s behave like normal frames, or do I have to use a lot of if/then/else and manual re-flipping?
20100629 20:30:17< Elvish_Pillager> AnimationWML on the wiki doesn't tell me (it doesn't even document this difference between frames and xxx_frames)
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20100629 20:33:17< CIA-87> mordante * r43782 /trunk/src/persist_manager.hpp: Make the destructor virtual.
20100629 20:33:19< CIA-87> mordante * r43783 /trunk/src/persist_manager.hpp: Add an include guard.
20100629 20:33:21< CIA-87> mordante * r43784 /trunk/src/persist_manager.cpp: Fix a compiler warning.
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20100629 20:39:39< crimson_penguin> noy: sorry I kinda disappeared on you the other day
20100629 20:39:45< noy> oh its all good
20100629 20:39:48< noy> I don't really mind
20100629 20:39:55< noy> it was an long shot request
20100629 20:40:05< crimson_penguin> noy: the thing is it kinda takes me about 3 hours to upload a binary, but Jetrel got set up to build now, so you could ask him
20100629 20:40:20< noy> thats fine cp
20100629 20:44:34< loonycyborg> crimson_penguin: I'll look into making an NSIS script for frogatto once I'll get around to multiboot to windows again :P
20100629 20:44:46< crimson_penguin> loonycyborg: cool
20100629 20:46:26 * crimson_penguin runs Windows 7 in a VM, but has to quit stuff to open it usually, to free up enough ram
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20100629 20:54:00< CIA-87> billynux * r43785 /trunk/src/ (ana/api/ana.hpp network_ana.cpp): Switched ana_network_manager to use a single set of ana_components.
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20100629 20:54:04< billynux> mordante, Crab_ : ^
20100629 20:54:13< billynux> brb, 15'
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20100629 20:55:10< Blitzmerker> Hi, the addons on the server has to be GPLv2, but can I dual-licence addons I create?
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20100629 21:21:56< Tycale> Is it possible to create a wesnoth server with an authentication system as on the official server? (and sorry for my poor english)
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20100629 21:26:52-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100629 21:26:58< gabba> bonjour
20100629 21:28:01< billynux> bonjour monsieur
20100629 21:28:53< gabba> bonjour m. billynux
20100629 21:29:30< Tycale> Salut billynux
20100629 21:30:01< billynux> Salut Tycale, I can't answer your above question :(
20100629 21:30:22< billynux> Ivanovic, any ideas on the question above ^ ?
20100629 21:31:52< Tycale> I'm looking src/server/ actually. as I can see it's possible to link a server easily with phpbb. But I haven't found yet how to configure that
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20100629 21:35:34< Tycale> configuration explaination in src/server/forum_user_handler.hpp I'm going to try :)
20100629 21:36:06< eleazar> Hey, is there something that automatically converts maps that runs whenever you start up wesnoth?
20100629 21:36:28< eleazar> to make sure the maps are up to date
20100629 21:36:41< eleazar> i know there's a tool
20100629 21:36:56< eleazar> i just don't know if it happens automatically
20100629 21:37:46< eleazar> That's ESR's thing right?
20100629 21:38:12< eleazar> I looks like it's rigged up wrong
20100629 21:39:24< eleazar> load a map with flowers (Ggf), like HttT's Siege of Elsenfar, and you get these big black spots where flowers used to be
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20100629 21:39:59< eleazar> Ggf is depreciated
20100629 21:40:33< eleazar> but it's supposed to be replaced with Gg^Efm, but is instead getting repaced with just Efm
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20100629 21:42:30< eleazar> at least that's the only way i can explain what i'm seeing.
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20100629 21:52:49< boucman> hey all
20100629 21:52:58< Crab_> hi, boucman
20100629 21:53:08< eleazar> hi
20100629 21:53:09< boucman> gabba: goin to test your stuff now :)
20100629 21:53:34< gabba> hi boucman
20100629 21:53:38< gabba> tell me what you think!
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20100629 21:56:54< CIA-87> eleazar * r43786 /trunk/ (31 files in 3 dirs): adding in more transitions for the grass, and the new 'clean cobbles' road.
20100629 22:01:41< Ivanovic> Tycale: yes, this is possible
20100629 22:02:00< Ivanovic> either you need a phpbb forum connected to the wesnothd
20100629 22:02:09< Ivanovic> or you write your own authentification handler
20100629 22:02:16< Ivanovic> information should be somewhere in the wiki
20100629 22:02:18< Ivanovic> re, btw
20100629 22:02:24< Ivanovic> and i finally got my pandora!
20100629 22:02:37< Ivanovic> (though i won't be testing it with wesnoth right away, checking lots of other stuff first)
20100629 22:03:12< gabba> boucman: btw, I'm here for about 30 min, and after that I'll get back to coding much later today
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20100629 22:03:54< boucman> k, testing now
20100629 22:04:47< boucman> gabba: I like it...
20100629 22:05:30< gabba> boucman: for me, it's the first time that I feel it could actually be usable :P
20100629 22:06:13< boucman> it's not exactly what I had in mind (you don't stay in future mode until the next action is planned, but get back to present mode right away, and the present=>future and future=>present anims are missing (my fault) and the ghosted are probably a bit too transparent (again, minor tweaks) but overall it looks good
20100629 22:08:42< eleazar> If you see black holes in the terrain, i think the map-converter is messed up.  See my IRC comments 40 min ago
20100629 22:12:13< boucman> gabba: other detail, during the mvt anim following an action being planned, the unit staying in place isn't turned in the right direction nor ghosted, it would look better if both were done
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20100629 22:13:30< gabba> Concerning getting back to present mode, I realized that if we don't do it automatically, there's no intuitive place for the player to click to resume giving orders
20100629 22:14:04< boucman> well,clicking on the "last ghost" since that's where the end of action is... but ok, i'm not strong on that one
20100629 22:15:03< boucman> the point of staying in present mode after exectution was because the most common use case will probably be executing sevral actions in a row and the switching back and forth between present and future mode would quickly be annoying
20100629 22:15:07< gabba> I tried it as you suggested first, and it's too confusing since you get used to clicking the "real" (in appearance) unit to give orders
20100629 22:15:18< boucman> and that is a real issue we will have to deal with somehow
20100629 22:15:30< boucman> hmm
20100629 22:15:59< gabba> ah, for executing several actions in a row, it'll actually look better since there will be less switching
20100629 22:16:10< gabba> once before executing, and once after
20100629 22:16:28< gabba> but I think you meant *manually* executing a bunch of actions
20100629 22:16:52< boucman> gabba: yes, if we "auto-execute" a serie of action there is no problem since the machine know it
20100629 22:17:55< boucman> but (as I stated once before) knowing how playes think, my guess is they will rather execute an action, check that everything is right, and execute the next one rather than auto-execute and trust the computer
20100629 22:18:08< boucman> even if it's not rational, i'm pretty sure that's how playres will play
20100629 22:18:36< gabba> a possible solution would be a small delay before switching back to "future" display, so the user has the chance of executing more moves. Not trivial to code, though.
20100629 22:19:02< boucman> or "any action except execute"
20100629 22:19:18< boucman> yes delay was my first thought, but i'm afraid it will be perturbting too
20100629 22:20:06< boucman> I don't have a perfect solution in mind... the "best"solution I have ATM is the one I proposed, but as you pointed out people would tend to click on the wrong unit...
20100629 22:20:19< boucman> hmm
20100629 22:20:21< gabba> ^I think a pretty common use case will be defining 3-4 moves and an attack, and then auto-execute until the attack
20100629 22:21:07< boucman> gabba: i'm pretty convince users will press "y" sevral times rather the trust the auto-exec in that case, call it "experience" :)
20100629 22:22:13< gabba> you're probably right, but it depends a lot of which command the interface makes more accessible... maybe if we assign alt+shift+ctrl+F7+Y to single execute, they'll tend to use auto-execute more?
20100629 22:23:11< boucman> they probably would, but tweaking the UI to make the command we like more used than the command the user want is a very bad bias in interface design... 
20100629 22:23:45< boucman> (and very common I have to admit, programmers tend to want to put the greatest and newest feature in front instead of the most used ones)
20100629 22:24:36< gabba> I'll put auto-executing in soonish, and we'll see how it works out, and how scary/untrustable it is for users
20100629 22:25:41< boucman> gabba: ok I just had another UI idea... (food for thought at this point, but it might solve our present vs future problem, so tell me what you think)
20100629 22:28:18< boucman> if, instead of switching from present to future, we always stay in future mode, except for the "bottom of the stack" unit which would have it's original position in normal state with it's arrow in a different style so it's highlighted which one is the next to play, there is  no problem of unghosting on execution... and once an action is executed the new "next executing" unit is unghosted (that could even be done simultaneously to the action)
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20100629 22:32:09< gabba> interesting, but I think we want to support selecting a unit and executing its actions instead of the last in queue
20100629 22:32:20< boucman> point...
20100629 22:32:42< boucman> gabba: do you have a "undo action" shortcut implemented in trunk ?
20100629 22:33:01< gabba> 'h' erases the latest one
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20100629 22:33:54< boucman> thx
20100629 22:34:55< boucman> I don't think highlighting when the mouse is over an arrow is a good idea, maybe keep it to over src+dst...
20100629 22:35:41< gabba> I gotta go real soon, so a question about coding priorities: I started working on move validation, but what's more important: that, or adding missing and rather easy interface stuff, such as reordering moves, executing move of selected unit, and so on?
20100629 22:36:37< boucman> gabba: i'd say interface stuff... 
20100629 22:36:39< gabba> ^ok I can remove mouseover over an arrow, it was an experiment. What about mouseover on intermediate ghosted units (provided we like them and don't replace them with a special symbol in the arrow...
20100629 22:37:17< boucman> getting the UI right is a very long process (since it's mainly you+me+MP devs discussing with a little coding here and there) but we need all the basic bricks to do it and you can code the complicated stuff in paralell
20100629 22:38:10< gabba> ok, I'll get that UI stuff in, since it's mainly wiring-in hotkeys by now
20100629 22:38:20< boucman> gabba: depending on how hard it is to do, keep them or leave them... I don't know if they would be a bother or a help, we would need beta testers to know (an MP game between good players would probably help, once we have enough stuff in place)
20100629 22:39:26< gabba> leaving now, see you tomorrow?
20100629 22:39:32< boucman> no idea :)
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20100629 22:39:39< boucman> probably yes
20100629 22:39:58< gabba> ok, see you period, then :P
20100629 22:40:06< gabba> bye all
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20100629 23:27:35< CIA-87> espreon * r43787 /trunk/ (457 files in 25 dirs): Converted more apostrophes; ran pofix.
20100629 23:29:38< Espreon> Hopefully, I didn't miss anything.
20100629 23:30:01< Espreon> Ivanovic: Would you please check to see if I got everything?
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--- Log closed Wed Jun 30 00:00:11 2010