--- Log opened Fri Jun 11 00:00:15 2010
20100611 00:03:13< AI0867> Espreon: fixed
20100611 00:03:18<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7236 /branches/maintenance-toolchain/fix-ign: Admin: made fix-ign add a pattern for '__MACOSX' directories.
20100611 00:03:32< Espreon> AI0867: Excellent.
20100611 00:10:48< Blueblaze> lo siento
20100611 00:10:50<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7237 /trunk/The_Silver_Lands/ (82 files in 80 dirs): TSL: added a pattern for '__MACOSX' directories to ign files and reassigned svn:ignore to everything.
20100611 00:15:41<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7238 /trunk/Era_of_Myths/_server.ign: EoM: ran fix-ign.
20100611 00:16:52<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7239 /trunk/Era_of_Strife/_server.ign: EoS: ran fix-ign.
20100611 00:28:10<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7240 /branches/maintenance-toolchain/fix-ign: Admin: added missing slash in a pattern.
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20100611 00:29:29<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7241 /trunk/Era_of_Myths/_server.ign: EoM: fixed a pattern in _server.ign.
20100611 00:30:07<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7242 /trunk/Era_of_Strife/_server.ign: EoS: fixed a pattern in _server.ign.
20100611 00:33:56 * Espreon kicks CIA-33 
20100611 00:33:56<+CIA-33> ow
20100611 00:35:22<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7243 /trunk/The_Silver_Lands/_server.ign: TSL: fixed a pattern in _server.ign.
20100611 00:53:53<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7244 /trunk/Extended_Era/ (56 files in 54 dirs): EE: updated ign files; reassigned svn:ignore to everything.
20100611 00:56:00<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7245 /trunk/Flight_Freedom/_server.ign: FF: ran fix-ign.
20100611 00:56:45<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7246 /trunk/Kromire/_server.ign: K: ran fix-ign.
20100611 00:59:16<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7247 /trunk/Nightmares_of_Meloen/_server.ign: NoM: ran fix-ign.
20100611 01:02:55<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7248 /trunk/Story_of_Wose/_server.ign: SoW: ran fix-ign.
20100611 01:02:55<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7249 /trunk/The_Dark_Hordes/_server.ign: TDH: ran fix-ign.
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20100611 01:55:22< shadowmaster> Espreon: aw, ED doesn't have a page on SVN
20100611 01:57:56< Espreon> :(
20100611 01:58:47 * Espreon wonders how much of the "Offended" article shadowmaster can tolerate.
20100611 01:59:14< shadowmaster> nah, I won't go there
20100611 01:59:32< Espreon> Good, don't.
20100611 01:59:52< shadowmaster> but it's a pity that they have an article on Perl but none on SVN
20100611 02:00:28< Espreon> Look at the Python article.
20100611 02:02:29 * Espreon can't believe that shadowmaster is still reading ED.
20100611 02:02:50< Espreon> shadowmaster: Did you look at the SSH article yet?
20100611 02:03:01< shadowmaster> yes
20100611 02:03:12< Espreon> Did you enjoy it?
20100611 02:03:19< shadowmaster> no
20100611 02:03:29< shadowmaster> "Not to mention the source code comments are filled with MP references and quotes." <- I hope this isn't true
20100611 02:03:57< shadowmaster> because it would give me grounds to call all Python fanatics a bunch of lunatics
20100611 02:04:09< Espreon> Grep for some quotes?
20100611 02:04:23< shadowmaster> I'm not going to download Python's source code
20100611 02:04:25< shadowmaster> it could make my eyes bleed
20100611 02:04:29< shadowmaster> or something
20100611 02:05:21< shadowmaster> whoever wrote their oifficial FAQ is an idiot or something
20100611 02:05:36< shadowmaster> http://docs.python.org/faq/general#what-is-python-good-for can't be complete without a xkcd reference
20100611 02:05:51< shadowmaster> http://xkcd.com/353/
20100611 02:06:43< Espreon> O...K...
20100611 02:07:02< Espreon> Only "import antigravity" was amusing.
20100611 02:07:23< Espreon> Also, there was one in which Python was used to give a soul to something.
20100611 02:08:16< Espreon> shadowmaster: Do you actually put your cursor over the wikilinks?
20100611 02:08:26< Espreon> If not, you should.
20100611 02:08:27< shadowmaster> yes
20100611 02:08:30< Espreon> Good.
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20100611 02:32:15< shadowmaster> bored
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20100611 02:32:38< Espreon> shadowmaster: Sprite...
20100611 02:32:54< shadowmaster> I like sprite
20100611 02:33:04< Espreon> Or read "Berserk".
20100611 02:33:11< Espreon> Right, Valkier?
20100611 02:33:15< Valkier> Indeed!
20100611 02:33:42< shadowmaster> I'm not going to travel a hundred of kilometers to the capital to buy a manga
20100611 02:33:52< Valkier> Who buys manga?
20100611 02:33:57 * shadowmaster hugs the Internet
20100611 02:34:04< shadowmaster> but I'm too lazy to read manga anyway
20100611 02:34:21< Espreon> Yeah, seriously, who buys manga?
20100611 02:34:38< Espreon> shadowmaster: But, "Berserk" is actually good.
20100611 02:34:54< shadowmaster> I guess.
20100611 02:35:02< shadowmaster> let me try to make sprites
20100611 02:35:14< Valkier> Get me a coke too.
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20100611 03:15:43< Gambit> Espreon: I used to buy Naruto.
20100611 03:15:59 * Espreon rolls his eyes
20100611 03:17:19< Valkier> Gambit: I... BELIEVE IT!
20100611 03:20:26< Espreon> Valkier: Please, don't.
20100611 03:21:10< Valkier> Anyone who admits to liking Naruto deserves that thrown at them.
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20100611 03:37:55 * Espreon disappears...
20100611 04:11:13< Elvish_Pillager> Hey, if Aethaeryn shows up when I'm not here, can some of you tell them that I've finished the code for raid spots?
20100611 04:11:55< Elvish_Pillager> Now trading is the only thing I need to completely remake Estibian Gaol in my system!
20100611 04:56:29< Gambit> Valkier: Past tense.
20100611 04:56:30< Gambit> Liked.
20100611 04:56:45< Gambit> "used to buy"
20100611 04:57:09< Gambit> Valkier: http://grickit.blogspot.com/2010/01/rescuing-sasuke.html#more
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20100611 07:16:06<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7250 /trunk/Era_of_Myths/ (3 files in 2 dirs): EoM: removed STR_SCIMITAR from the gettext helper file.
20100611 07:24:45<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7251 /trunk/Era_of_Myths/macros/traits.cfg: EoM: added female name for the obedient trait.
20100611 07:29:12<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7252 /trunk/Era_of_Myths/macros/ (abilities.cfg ferocious.cfg): EoM: removed strings for *inactive* in the abilities.
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20100611 07:36:54<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7253 /trunk/Era_of_Myths/units/vampires.cfg: EoM: added female name for the vampire race.
20100611 07:40:24<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7254 /tags/1.8/Era_of_Myths/: Added tags tree for the 1.8 branch of the EoM.
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20100611 08:11:37<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7255 /trunk/Era_of_Myths/ (25 files in 8 dirs): EoM: added EVILEST's portraits.
20100611 08:16:36<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7256 /trunk/Era_of_Myths/changelog.txt: EoM: updated the changelog.
20100611 08:22:01<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7257 /branches/1.8/Era_of_Myths/: Created the 1.8 branch of the EoM from trunk.
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20100611 08:30:22<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7258 /trunk/Era_of_Myths/ (changelog.txt detect.cfg dist/VERSION): EoM: version bump.
20100611 08:34:32<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7259 /tags/trunk/Era_of_Myths/5.9/: Tagging version 5.9/e9 of the EoM...
20100611 08:38:15<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7260 /trunk/Era_of_Myths/ (changelog.txt detect.cfg dist/VERSION): EoM: post-release version bump.
20100611 08:57:42<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7261 /branches/1.8/Era_of_Myths/ (changelog.txt detect.cfg dist/VERSION): EoM (1.8): version bump.
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20100611 09:00:33<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7262 /tags/1.8/Era_of_Myths/5.9/: Tagging version 5.9/e9 of the EoM (1.8).
20100611 09:01:19<+CIA-33> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7263 /branches/1.8/Era_of_Myths/ (changelog.txt detect.cfg dist/VERSION): EoM (1.8): post-release version bump.
20100611 09:09:07< Espreon> Meh, creating separate releases was pretty pointless.
20100611 09:32:18< shadowmaster> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=433892#p433892
20100611 09:32:21< shadowmaster> WE AREDOOMED
20100611 09:32:35< shadowmaster> he says he's Anonymous
20100611 09:33:15< shadowmaster> also, remind me to ban all mailinator addressesin the future
20100611 09:33:38< shadowmaster> more like all http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_e-mail_address
20100611 09:33:45< shadowmaster> forgreatjustice
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20100611 13:47:10< Espreon> shadowmaster: ...
20100611 13:49:19< timotei> hello Espreon :)
20100611 13:49:22< timotei> how are you doing?
20100611 13:50:20< AI0867> Espreon: are you *sure* you want opening-and-closing quotes?
20100611 13:50:26< AI0867> they're ugly
20100611 13:51:26< Espreon> They look fine to me. Besides, with these... we can have... double quotes.
20100611 13:52:23< AI0867> those of opening-and-closing versions too...
20100611 13:52:28< AI0867> s/of/have/
20100611 13:52:32< AI0867> how did that happen?
20100611 13:52:45< Espreon> Wait, what?
20100611 13:52:49< AI0867> that typo
20100611 13:53:45< timotei> Espreon: I think broke again the prop fix on the /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/README.tex
20100611 13:53:49< Espreon> Well, I read somewhere that we shouldn't be using straight double quotes in strings.
20100611 13:54:06< Espreon> timotei: Hmmmmm? What happened?
20100611 13:54:45< timotei> Espreon: something inside me tells me that. I saw in the diff some duplicate lines, and I presume the EOF or something stupid was edited:P
20100611 13:54:49< AI0867> true, but they can be used when escaped
20100611 13:55:34< Espreon> Sigh...
20100611 13:55:53< AI0867> in C++, "\"" is a string containing a double quote
20100611 13:56:00< Espreon> I know.
20100611 13:56:00< AI0867> in WML """" is one
20100611 13:56:09< AI0867> for some reason
20100611 13:57:11< Espreon> AI0867: We have an excuse to use correct typography, let it go.
20100611 13:58:28< Espreon> AI0867: Also http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=434022#p434022 ... What?
20100611 13:58:34< Espreon> I'm handling that.
20100611 13:59:40< Espreon> Also, why did you have to use the "e" word?
20100611 14:00:21< Espreon> Meh, forget that.
20100611 14:05:21< Espreon> AI0867: Did you actually look at the quotation marks in-game?
20100611 14:11:23-!- Valkier [~IceChat7@c-174-55-104-2.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20100611 14:11:43< Espreon> Hello Valkier.
20100611 14:11:47< Valkier> Howdy!
20100611 14:11:50< Valkier> How are you doin?
20100611 14:12:01< Espreon> I'm doing well; how 'bout you?
20100611 14:12:08< Valkier> Pretty good.
20100611 14:12:15< Valkier> My new speakers showed up yesterday.
20100611 14:12:28< Valkier> Still trying to arrange them in a way I like it.
20100611 14:12:48< Espreon> Oh?
20100611 14:13:11< Valkier> They're logitech z-5500
20100611 14:13:15< Valkier> Very nice.
20100611 14:13:31< Espreon> Uh, OK.
20100611 14:13:41< Valkier> What are you up to?
20100611 14:14:01< Espreon> Just making excuses to use/enforce correct typography in mainline.
20100611 14:14:08< Valkier> heh
20100611 14:14:12< Espreon> ... you know, not studying for my history final?
20100611 14:14:25< Valkier> Meh. It'll still be there later, right?
20100611 14:15:42< Espreon> What will?
20100611 14:15:56< Valkier> History.
20100611 14:15:59< Espreon> My awesome typographical standards?
20100611 14:17:27< Valkier> I may try to get a quick example for something for ML.
20100611 14:17:42< Espreon> OK.
20100611 14:17:45< Valkier> Was thinking it might be cool to have terot card type things for choosing what race you want to use.
20100611 14:18:02< Espreon> Heh, I used tarrot cards once.
20100611 14:18:25< Espreon> *tarot
20100611 14:18:29< Espreon> Damn Frenchies.
20100611 14:18:55< Valkier> They do mess things up.
20100611 14:19:14< Espreon> Once I force my revived fuþorc upon the Anglophone, there will be no more of this crap.
20100611 14:20:09< Espreon> Valkier: Wouldn't that be lovely?
20100611 14:20:21< Valkier> Indeed!
20100611 14:21:22< Espreon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anglosaxonrunes.svg ... Nice, straight, and native.
20100611 14:22:09< Espreon> Hmmmm, eþel kinda looks like a house.
20100611 14:23:09< Espreon> Valkier: What do you think?
20100611 14:23:55< Valkier> I'm not changing everything. :-P
20100611 14:24:46< Espreon> But you must, or the Frenchies will win!
20100611 14:25:09< Valkier> They have good socialized healthcare.
20100611 14:25:51< Espreon> But, they're evil...
20100611 14:26:40< Valkier> No more or less than any government.
20100611 14:27:13< Espreon> But, they're the worst.
20100611 14:27:26< Valkier> Nah. That's Mexico
20100611 14:28:01< Espreon> But, noöne cares about Mexico.
20100611 14:28:14< Valkier> Exactly. And they would if they had a good government.
20100611 14:28:15< Espreon> The Frenchies spreaded their AIDS throughout the world.
20100611 14:28:47< Valkier> Wasn't the first case of AIDS in the US?
20100611 14:29:12< Espreon> I'm using the term figuratively.
20100611 14:29:23< Espreon> Regardless, I have to take my history final.
20100611 14:29:26< Espreon> So... byez.
20100611 14:29:30 * Espreon disappears...
20100611 14:29:30< Valkier> Good luck.
20100611 14:29:36< Espreon> Thanks.
20100611 14:30:22< AI0867> Espreon: nope, don't have wesnoth here
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20100611 16:04:49< Espreon> AI0867: Thought so.
20100611 16:04:58< Valkier> Study!
20100611 16:05:10< Espreon> Valkier: I took it.
20100611 16:05:13< Valkier> Oh
20100611 16:05:15< Valkier> Well rock on.
20100611 16:05:19< Espreon> Yeahz...
20100611 16:05:37< Valkier> I think my Draug is nearly finished.
20100611 16:05:42< Espreon> Now to baleet fucking everything.
20100611 16:05:51< Espreon> Valkier: Ah, nice.
20100611 16:06:09< Valkier> I say nearly, because some jack hole will probably tell me to add the cape.
20100611 16:06:15< Valkier> But I feel that is a stupid damn idea.
20100611 16:07:02< Espreon> Indeed.
20100611 16:08:37< Espreon> Hmmm... sadly, I don't have enough time to shred my free space.
20100611 16:08:47< Valkier> Oh?
20100611 16:09:09< Espreon> We have to turn in these shitty laptops today.
20100611 16:09:30< Valkier> Isn't that a good thing?
20100611 16:09:42< Espreon> Uh, no.
20100611 16:09:47< Espreon> I want to shred my free space.
20100611 16:10:16 * Espreon disappears...
20100611 16:22:59< AI0867> Espreon: you have to turn in the laptop?
20100611 16:23:25< AI0867> insert bootcd, /bin/shred /dev/sda
20100611 16:24:29< timotei21> turn in the laptop? what does it mean? You borrowed it?
20100611 16:24:45< AI0867> school-owned laptop I guess
20100611 16:25:02< timotei21> nice
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20100611 16:29:38< AI0867> Espreon: why would you just want to shred your free space?
20100611 16:29:40< AI0867> shred EVERYTHING
20100611 16:30:08< AI0867> it may also be faster, as there are no seeks
20100611 16:30:09< Aethaeryn> AI0867: Why would you want to SHRED everything when you can BLEND everything?
20100611 16:30:27< Aethaeryn> Sorry, couldn't resist having an uninformed and out-of-context comment.
20100611 16:30:39< Valkier> Sup, Aeth.
20100611 16:30:42< AI0867> because shred is a program that overwrites files or devices with random patterns 35 times
20100611 16:30:54< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn!
20100611 16:30:57< AI0867> to ensure *nothing* can be recovered
20100611 16:31:08< Elvish_Pillager> I've coded the raid spots.
20100611 16:31:15< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: Yesterday was my sister's birthday and also the day my first homework was due and my first quiz was.
20100611 16:31:19< Aethaeryn> For my summer class.
20100611 16:31:26< Elvish_Pillager> Oh boy :)
20100611 16:31:26< Aethaeryn> So that explains my absence well enough? :P
20100611 16:31:53< Aethaeryn> I did better on the homework than some of the math geeks in the class, based on talking after class... 20/20.
20100611 16:31:58< Aethaeryn> But I'm not sure how well I did on the quiz :P
20100611 16:32:02< Elvish_Pillager> Heh.
20100611 16:32:11< Aethaeryn> The homework you have all the time in the world and multiple attempts to submit the answer.
20100611 16:32:34< Aethaeryn> As the alloted time to work approaches infinity, my ability to solve the math problem correctly increases.
20100611 16:32:39< Elvish_Pillager> And it tells you whether you got the right answer after you submit it?
20100611 16:32:45< Aethaeryn> Yes.
20100611 16:32:51< Elvish_Pillager> Hey, that's stated incorrectly!
20100611 16:32:52< Aethaeryn> And some of the things are a 50/50 or 1/3 choice.
20100611 16:32:57< Aethaeryn> So...
20100611 16:33:19< Aethaeryn> Maybe 2-3 of the 20-22 problems should be right for everyone.
20100611 16:33:20< Aethaeryn> :P
20100611 16:33:56< Aethaeryn> But hey, I'm just in Precalc.
20100611 16:34:04< Elvish_Pillager> Hmm. I've made the two fire images in the distilleries cycle at slightly different rates. This is actually nice (since it means you no longer get two fires pulsing exactly in unison)
20100611 16:34:24< Aethaeryn> I should've taken the into-a-math placement test pre-freshman year seriously, but I took it later than everyone else and by myself because of a scheduling mix-up.
20100611 16:34:29< Elvish_Pillager> I had thought it might be tacky or obvious what the trick was, but it wasn't.
20100611 16:34:31< Aethaeryn> I'm just glad I didn't get placed in the remedial English like my friend.
20100611 16:34:51< Elvish_Pillager> :o
20100611 16:34:58< Aethaeryn> Also, I probably would've taken precalc anyway as a refresher for the two calcs I need to take this coming year.
20100611 16:35:08< Aethaeryn> Since precalc is all the math you need to know before calc (in theory)
20100611 16:35:16< Elvish_Pillager> Nonsense.
20100611 16:35:19< Aethaeryn> I'm just really wondering why this is a prerequisite for Computer Science 201.
20100611 16:35:29< Elvish_Pillager> You don't even need to know algebra before calc.
20100611 16:35:30< Aethaeryn> I'm not sure how factoring and polynomials help me with python coding.
20100611 16:35:36< Aethaeryn> I am just baffled ;)
20100611 16:35:42< Elvish_Pillager> (Although it helps.)
20100611 16:35:52< Elvish_Pillager> (As does pretty much everything.)
20100611 16:35:56< Aethaeryn> Oh, look, I can graph functions...
20100611 16:36:04< Aethaeryn> And I can do math without a calculator since it's not allowed...
20100611 16:36:11< Elvish_Pillager> lol...
20100611 16:36:29< Aethaeryn> Oh wait, computers are basically giant calculators, so doing math without a calculator (which i'm rather good at since I've been practicing for the last 6 months or so with the help of an Android game called Maths Workout +)
20100611 16:36:37< Aethaeryn> is basically just a party trick.
20100611 16:36:58< Aethaeryn> Which I can beat by writing two different things at the same time, using both hands.
20100611 16:36:59< Elvish_Pillager> Do you mean like doing arithmetic? because that's not math
20100611 16:37:03< Elvish_Pillager> Calculators can't do math ^_^
20100611 16:37:04< Aethaeryn> :P
20100611 16:37:18< Aethaeryn> I dislike math.
20100611 16:37:22< Aethaeryn> I like economics, physics, and computers.
20100611 16:37:28< Aethaeryn> Now you see my position. ;)
20100611 16:37:30< Elvish_Pillager> I like math.
20100611 16:37:47< Elvish_Pillager> (that's not strictly true, but it takes a LOT more words to explain it in a way that is.)
20100611 16:38:28< Aethaeryn> Well, the main reasons I don't like math are twofold: not enough time on tests/quizzes and I never do perfectly because it's easy to misplace a - or something so I have to spend longer checking than it took for me to solve the actual thing.
20100611 16:38:38< Elvish_Pillager> With the new raid system, you can make a mining outpost that keeps digging new mines for you to raid...
20100611 16:38:41< Aethaeryn> So perhaps I should put it differently.
20100611 16:38:48< Elvish_Pillager> What.
20100611 16:38:51< Aethaeryn> Math is interesting... math class is awful.
20100611 16:38:55< Elvish_Pillager> Surely you mean you don't like math classes.
20100611 16:38:57< Aethaeryn> :P
20100611 16:38:59< Elvish_Pillager> Yeah.
20100611 16:39:17< Aethaeryn> Honestly, I could probably learn more once out of college than all my time in college.
20100611 16:39:18< Elvish_Pillager> Although I've found that the higher level math classes you get into, the less bad it gets.
20100611 16:39:31< Elvish_Pillager> Because the professors are more interested in the subject and less interested in the class.
20100611 16:39:41< Aethaeryn> I can teach myself a lot more programming languages, at a faster pace...
20100611 16:39:48< Aethaeryn> I can work on my Latin/Greek, which I can't do because of my double major.
20100611 16:40:08< Aethaeryn> (4 years of Latin in high school = no language requirement in college, and so I can't afford *to* take it.)
20100611 16:40:30< Aethaeryn> It's funny, too, since there's so many things I'll be 2-4 classes away from minoring. I have such broad interests.
20100611 16:40:41< Elvish_Pillager> That's not funny :p
20100611 16:40:56< Aethaeryn> I just can't take those last 2-4 classes because philosophy+computer science+what i have taken=one semester more than 4 years
20100611 16:41:14< Aethaeryn> and after 4.5 years, I'd want some kind of higher degree (i.e. more money after I'm out) 
20100611 16:42:15< Elvish_Pillager> gosh.
20100611 16:42:24< Aethaeryn> It's interesting, though, since my interests include philosophy, linguistics (at least dead ones, I can't *speak* other languages unfortunately), computers, bits of math (mostly applied in things like physics, not direct pure concept-after-concept-after-concept math class)
20100611 16:42:51< Aethaeryn> Basically all of the "hacker" areas esr mentions in one of his writings. 
20100611 16:43:55< Elvish_Pillager> My interests include pure math, theatre, neuroscience, creative writing, computer programming, feminism...
20100611 16:44:10< Aethaeryn> I write too and read a bit...
20100611 16:44:13< Aethaeryn> but pure math is overrated :P
20100611 16:44:18< Elvish_Pillager> So basically you can't lump them together under any of your damn labels. :p
20100611 16:44:23< Aethaeryn> it's so much more exciting when you do stuff with math.
20100611 16:44:35< Aethaeryn> again... physics, economics, computers, and even statistics.
20100611 16:44:38< Aethaeryn> those stuff I find interesting.
20100611 16:44:49< Aethaeryn> I just struggle to keep myself doing the homework/studying in pure math classes :P
20100611 16:44:52< Elvish_Pillager> Maybe I should tell you about how I am awesome using pure math.
20100611 16:45:02< Aethaeryn> Meh.
20100611 16:45:15< Aethaeryn> Computers took all the fun areas away from mathematics that were left in the field.
20100611 16:45:23< Aethaeryn> The ones econ, statistics, and physics didn't take during the 20th century.
20100611 16:45:30< Elvish_Pillager> It's all about getting concepts exactly as you want them. If you think about exactly the right concepts, then your thinking will be much easier
20100611 16:45:38< Aethaeryn> Eh...
20100611 16:45:44< Elvish_Pillager> e.g. Haskell was designed by mathematicians.
20100611 16:45:56< Aethaeryn> I have no problem with *using* math...
20100611 16:46:13< Aethaeryn> I just have a lot easier time both remembering things and even motivating myself to learn things when they have applicability.
20100611 16:46:26< Aethaeryn> Thus why you can compare my high school physics and math grades, by the same teacher, and see the difference.
20100611 16:46:31< Aethaeryn> I think I got 100 in one semester.
20100611 16:46:34< Elvish_Pillager> Maybe you haven't learned pure math from anyone who knows how to make it make sense.
20100611 16:46:57< Aethaeryn> At my school, they all speak English as a second language.
20100611 16:47:00< Aethaeryn> And rush through the material.
20100611 16:47:04-!- timotei21 [~timo@193.34.191.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100611 16:47:08< Aethaeryn> Your teacher is yourself staring at your notes until it clicks. :P
20100611 16:47:15< Elvish_Pillager> Ah.
20100611 16:47:47< Elvish_Pillager> I've almost finished porting Estiban Gaol. I just need to do the trading.
20100611 16:48:05< Aethaeryn> Oh, I forgot one other area of very-applied mathematics that I both do well in academically and find fascinating.
20100611 16:48:08< Aethaeryn> Logic.
20100611 16:48:24< Elvish_Pillager> Aeth, do you have any interest in using the trading system in your map? I want to know whether to code it as part of the engine or just as part of the Estiban map.
20100611 16:48:26< Aethaeryn> The philosophy logic class I did was really easy to me, came naturally... Even got 100 on the proofs bit.
20100611 16:48:41< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: I don't really care about trading, or victory points.
20100611 16:48:55< Aethaeryn> I would love an unlimited to-the-death thing
20100611 16:49:01< Elvish_Pillager> I have coded it.
20100611 16:49:04< Aethaeryn> since 100 or 200 VP matches usually don't end anyway, or are to-the-death
20100611 16:49:07< Aethaeryn> ah, good
20100611 16:49:15< Aethaeryn> one more thing I wanted was a kind of outpost thing.
20100611 16:49:50< Elvish_Pillager> That should be easy to make using the new raiding system.
20100611 16:50:31< Elvish_Pillager> wesbot: seen Bob_The_Mighty
20100611 16:50:31<+wesbot> Elvish_Pillager: The person with the nick Bob_The_Mighty last spoke 13d 18h ago.  2d 22h ago they were seen quitting on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-dev with the message: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]
20100611 16:51:09< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: Maybe they'll force me to take higher math if I get a comp sci master's.
20100611 16:51:29< Aethaeryn> comp sci major doesn't go beyond Calc I & II, Linear Algebra, and a 300-level stats.
20100611 16:51:39< Aethaeryn> Not even the Calc III engineering majors take.
20100611 16:51:51< Aethaeryn> And in that case I'll reevaluate my opinion.
20100611 16:52:01< Aethaeryn> but right now, I just view math as prerequisite to interesting stuff.
20100611 16:52:05< Elvish_Pillager> yeah...
20100611 16:52:14< Elvish_Pillager> That system doesn't sound very well-organized.
20100611 16:52:18< Aethaeryn> Too bad I probably won't have time for the 300-level intermediate econs unless they offer them in winter...
20100611 16:52:22< Aethaeryn> here's hoping for the calc-based econs.
20100611 16:52:51 * Elvish_Pillager goes to eat (feel free to keep talking, I'll read it when I get back)
20100611 16:54:10< Aethaeryn> But I love logic... I'm going to hopefully take a 400-level philosophy follow-up to my 300-level deductive logic class...
20100611 16:54:15< Aethaeryn> in the spring.
20100611 16:54:42< Aethaeryn> and I have to take a logic for computer science (CMSC 203) that should be mostly parallel to PHIL 346 (the philosophy logic)
20100611 16:54:58< Aethaeryn> So... at least two more logics
20100611 17:02:38< Aethaeryn> oh, btw, the reason I give the course numbers is because it makes more sense to remember them than the often not-too-descriptive and definitely not uniform coure title.s
20100611 17:02:55< Aethaeryn> easier to remember the number and what they really are than what they say the course is called ;)
20100611 17:04:36< zookeeper> Aethaeryn, after you've studied logic a lot, what do you intend to do with it?
20100611 17:04:41< Elvish_Pillager> yeah, for courses with four-word names anyway...
20100611 17:05:10< Elvish_Pillager> although I took a course called Biological Basis of Behavior last semester, and nobody called it by its number ever (they called it "Bio Basis")
20100611 17:05:13< Aethaeryn> zookeeper: Argue with people in Off-Topic who are clearly wrong, by linking to Wikipedia articles on the errors they're making.
20100611 17:05:17< Aethaeryn> That, or program.
20100611 17:05:24< Aethaeryn> It's a toss-up.
20100611 17:05:55< zookeeper> ok
20100611 17:06:06< Valkier> You should go look at my Draug and tlel me how amazing I am.
20100611 17:06:22< Valkier> Problem solved.
20100611 17:06:37< Aethaeryn> Would be a pretty cool job to wear a bright red fedora...
20100611 17:06:52< Aethaeryn> Probably only Google would be a better job.
20100611 17:15:28< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: so are you going to remove victory points from your map? If you are, I think I'll take it out of the engine add-on and make it an Estiban-specific thing
20100611 17:20:20< Aethaeryn> Well, I don't mind the VP concept, if people like finishing the game.
20100611 17:20:41< Aethaeryn> I was the one who brought up the idea of basing VP on the unit's level, which does make 100 VP games winnable, eventually.
20100611 17:20:45< Aethaeryn> e.g. kill a yeti and you get 4 VP
20100611 17:21:04< Aethaeryn> so no, i suppose that's up to the host to choose... if it's not too hard to keep it
20100611 17:21:14< Elvish_Pillager> Oh, it's not hard to keep.
20100611 17:21:46< Elvish_Pillager> Now I just need to decide what to do with trading. :(
20100611 17:23:39< Elvish_Pillager> Bob's system is hopelessly economically incorrect.
20100611 17:24:27< Elvish_Pillager> The obvious alternate system, ideal capitalism (which is much simpler in this case) makes the roles of the producing locations make little sense (since they'd have to be producing infinite amounts of the resource.)
20100611 17:27:07< Aethaeryn> Well, if there's no trading, all the raid zones would give gold in my map
20100611 17:27:13< Aethaeryn> which imo, is ideal... speeds it up a bit
20100611 17:27:15< Elvish_Pillager> Right.
20100611 17:27:23< Aethaeryn> since you don't have to sail north if you're south and vice versa to sell for max yield.
20100611 17:27:47< Elvish_Pillager> _you_ can use gold; I'm just musing on how I'll update Estiban Gaol and leave trading in
20100611 17:27:55< Aethaeryn> ah
20100611 17:28:06< Aethaeryn> What amounts do you think are fair, btw?
20100611 17:28:15< Elvish_Pillager> Of gold for raiding different locations?
20100611 17:28:57< Aethaeryn> Dragon Volcano > Haunted Mansion = Wesalwyn City > Warehouse > Ft. Esst > the 6 lesser raid spots
20100611 17:29:53< Elvish_Pillager> I'd start by making the reward for each one be a bit more than the sum of the costs of the units defending it.
20100611 17:32:21< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: Oh, should I put the leader on a castle or did you do that units-in-void thing?
20100611 17:32:44< Elvish_Pillager> Crap, I accidentally picked "Delete add-on" instead of "Publish add-on". I've moved down the list :p
20100611 17:32:56< Aethaeryn> Wow.
20100611 17:32:59< Elvish_Pillager> Aeth: I did that, you won't have any problems
20100611 17:33:02< Aethaeryn> I do not want to do that with Aethaeryn's Maps.
20100611 17:33:05< Elvish_Pillager> Heh.
20100611 17:33:08< Aethaeryn> it is #2 on the list :P
20100611 17:33:15< Elvish_Pillager> yeah, I saw
20100611 17:33:23< Aethaeryn> I actually could have been #1
20100611 17:33:29< Elvish_Pillager> Anyway, I've uploaded the version with the raid spot definitions.
20100611 17:33:37< Aethaeryn> but I didn't want to be #1 with my mappack....
20100611 17:33:47< Aethaeryn> so I uploaded IftU for sm
20100611 17:33:59< Aethaeryn> Since he was #1 last time.
20100611 17:34:02< Elvish_Pillager> You can look at ~add-ons/High_Seas_Era/THS_Estiban_Gaol.cfg for the way they're used
20100611 17:34:30< Aethaeryn> ok
20100611 17:34:42< Aethaeryn> I have to take my cat to the vet pretty soon...
20100611 17:34:48< Elvish_Pillager> Screw that, I want to be first. EoHS shouldn't have less than 10% as many downloads as IftU :p
20100611 17:35:10< Elvish_Pillager> whoops, that's /scenarios/THS_Estiban_Gaol.cfg
20100611 17:35:11< Aethaeryn> but hopefully I can get the version with raids-giving-gold out soon
20100611 17:35:43< Aethaeryn> Oh, btw, I wouldn't ever want my mappack to really be first... I don't think it would be good...
20100611 17:36:00< Elvish_Pillager> I think I deserve first place :p
20100611 17:36:01< Aethaeryn> It's basically dumping ground for ideas that aren't quite big enough for their own add-on
20100611 17:38:48< Elvish_Pillager> I will never rest until EoHS has more downloads than @#$% Ageless Era!
20100611 17:39:37< Aethaeryn> Amen.
20100611 17:39:51< Valkier> I will not rest till Ageless has more downloads than a torrented movie!
20100611 17:40:00< Elvish_Pillager> o_O
20100611 17:40:16< Valkier> Than gay midget porn?
20100611 17:40:20 * Elvish_Pillager shoots Valkier for speaking in favor of Ageless Era
20100611 17:40:30< Aethaeryn> There's a reason I make Thunderstone way more powerful than Default. Not just the flavor of the tech level, but that's a big reason.
20100611 17:40:34< Valkier> I don't actually know what either of these projects are. :-P
20100611 17:40:48< Aethaeryn> The other reason is that so no freeloader just combines it with a dozen other eras without a pain in balancing. 
20100611 17:41:03< Elvish_Pillager> Valkier: Ageless Era is a massive, unbalanced era that causes OOS in Default for anyone who has downloaded it.
20100611 17:41:04< Aethaeryn> Good luck fighting vehicles without an electric attack.
20100611 17:41:10< Elvish_Pillager> :D
20100611 17:41:15< Valkier> OOS?
20100611 17:41:20< Elvish_Pillager> out-of-sync errors
20100611 17:41:22< Aethaeryn> Valkier: out of sync.
20100611 17:41:25< Valkier> oooh
20100611 17:41:31< Aethaeryn> It's where one copy thinks one thing's going on...
20100611 17:41:33< Valkier> So why do people get it?
20100611 17:41:34< Aethaeryn> and another thinks something else is.
20100611 17:41:42< Aethaeryn> Bad unit IDs is one example...
20100611 17:41:45< Elvish_Pillager> Valkier: because they are stupid sheep!
20100611 17:41:47< Aethaeryn> Bad random rolls is another.
20100611 17:42:10< Aethaeryn> So if the results of a random (from a fancy WML trick to as simple as seeing different traits on the same unit)
20100611 17:42:14< Valkier> You'd think something like that would get mentioned.
20100611 17:42:16< Aethaeryn> aren't in sync...
20100611 17:42:23< Aethaeryn> It can lead to fun stuff.
20100611 17:42:38< Elvish_Pillager> Valkier: I personally think that the devs should remove it from the server until the maintainer fixes that problem.
20100611 17:43:22< Valkier> I agree!
20100611 17:43:27< Valkier> Where is the governor!?
20100611 17:43:43< Elvish_Pillager> In Era of Governors
20100611 17:43:51< Valkier> hmmm
20100611 17:43:52< Aethaeryn> I wouldn't be making an era (well, I'll do the sprites when this RL stuff calms down a bit sometime this summer) if I liked most of the current ones.
20100611 17:44:04< Aethaeryn> So even if 1-3 might be passable (though all are works in progress) putting more than 5 of them together is just meh.
20100611 17:44:14< Valkier> So why do you not consider the ML stuff to be good enough?
20100611 17:44:26< Aethaeryn> ML?
20100611 17:44:30< Valkier> Mainline
20100611 17:44:56< Aethaeryn> Mainline isn't in an add-on, unless I'm mistaken.
20100611 17:45:05< Aethaeryn> My focus is almost entirely on add-ons...
20100611 17:45:07< Valkier> Not really what I asked.
20100611 17:45:47< Aethaeryn> Well, Default Era and UMC eras are pretty much judged on two different scales, and I find that wrong.
20100611 17:45:49< Aethaeryn> That very few UMC is complete enough to even stand side-by-side with Defualt.
20100611 17:45:52< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: that sounds like an inconsistent position. So if all the UMC eras were good, you wouldn't want to make more, but if they then mainlined all those good eras, you'd have to make some again?
20100611 17:46:29< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: No...  Notice, I said "Default Era" and not mainline.
20100611 17:46:46< Aethaeryn> I watch my words carefully on the Internet, a place more vicious than the most vile courtroom.
20100611 17:46:49< Elvish_Pillager> Valkier asked you about mainline.
20100611 17:46:58< Valkier> My question is this
20100611 17:46:59< Aethaeryn> Well, the only mainline era right now is Default Era.
20100611 17:47:11< Valkier> You're basically just making another faction.
20100611 17:47:13< Aethaeryn> So, they are synonymous *currently*.
20100611 17:47:21< Valkier> However, there are all ready very well balanced factions in the game.
20100611 17:47:28< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: So you should simply revise your original statement to say "Non-default"
20100611 17:47:35< Aethaeryn> Valkier: They're not sci fi.
20100611 17:47:36< Elvish_Pillager> *non-Default
20100611 17:47:37< Valkier> So your reasoning to make an era because the others are bad, doesn't make much sense.
20100611 17:47:47< Aethaeryn> One of the reasons I don't like the UMC eras is because they all pretty much have the same scope :P
20100611 17:48:08< Elvish_Pillager> ...which is the same scope as Default, which makes your position hold together better.
20100611 17:48:15-!- thespaceinvader [~chatzilla@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20100611 17:48:17< Aethaeryn> ...
20100611 17:48:24< Aethaeryn> So, Default is there first and does it best...
20100611 17:48:43< Aethaeryn> If a million people copy the sound of one song...
20100611 17:48:45< Elvish_Pillager> and you want to make something different, you artist.
20100611 17:48:48< Aethaeryn> But the original song is good...
20100611 17:48:58< Aethaeryn> That doesn't make the original song suddenly lumped with the copycats.
20100611 17:49:14< Elvish_Pillager> Sure it does.
20100611 17:49:30< Elvish_Pillager> Unless the other songs aren't actually successful at copying its sound.
20100611 17:49:38< Aethaeryn> A "new sound" is generally treated differently.
20100611 17:50:02< Elvish_Pillager> Sorry, I only judge works based on their content, not on their origins.
20100611 17:50:09< Aethaeryn> ...
20100611 17:50:28< Elvish_Pillager> I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean when you say "..."
20100611 17:50:29< Aethaeryn> Okay, let me rephrase it.
20100611 17:50:29< Aethaeryn> There's probably 8 UMC eras, all of them about contemporary with Default Era with a few exceptions (e.g. Imperial Era).
20100611 17:50:48< Aethaeryn> None of them are as complete in art, usually lacking animations and often lacking decent baseframes in half their factions.
20100611 17:51:16< Aethaeryn> They usually either don't have well defined campaign themes or good MP balance, only Default seems to have both MP balance and SP themes/campaign-usage.
20100611 17:51:19< Espreon> AI0867: LOL, they locked the BIOS, and they disabled the ability to boot from anything but the hdd.
20100611 17:52:04< Espreon> *BIOS/BIOS setup/whatever
20100611 17:52:51< Aethaeryn> My point is that the eras that exist in the class of "new units" (as opposed to using mainline in creative ways like EoHS) all seem incomplete and either focus on SP (IE and its spin-offs) or MP (most of the rest).
20100611 17:53:22< Aethaeryn> And they're mostly incomplete because they either started with more factions than they could handle or they added more factions before they finished.
20100611 17:53:46< Aethaeryn> And they often lack a coherent starting theme... look at EoM. Its core factions of 3-4 are probably its worst, and the ones people play it for are pretty randomly added there.
20100611 17:54:26< Aethaeryn> And they're usually all in one giant timespan, which doesn't really make them an "era" as much as a "region"
20100611 17:54:34< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: There, is that a little more spelled-out?
20100611 17:54:38< Elvish_Pillager> My point is that the line you're drawing between Default and the other eras is an unnecessary one.
20100611 17:54:45< Elvish_Pillager> And that long description doesn't address that point.
20100611 17:55:13< Elvish_Pillager> Default is "new units" too, compared with not having Default.
20100611 17:55:24< Aethaeryn> Default has (1) balance, (2) well-defined factions that are used in both SP and MP effectively and coherently where only one might seem tacked on (Drakes), (3) mostly complete base-frames (all the MP ones, only a handful of monsters seem lacking)
20100611 17:55:25< Elvish_Pillager> Default doesn't have a consistent theme either.
20100611 17:55:53< Elvish_Pillager> (Default is the MP era, so the monsters aren't really part of Default at all.)
20100611 17:56:18< Elvish_Pillager> And, so? Why do you care about the existence of crappy MP eras?
20100611 17:56:31< Elvish_Pillager> It seems to me more like you care about the _non_existence of good ones.
20100611 17:56:38< Aethaeryn> If you had to choose between "Default Era" and another, say "Era of Myths", to be the one-and-only era for the entire game, single player campaigns as well as multiplayer...
20100611 17:56:41< Aethaeryn> Then if you don't choose Default Era you do not like balance, art, etc. :P
20100611 17:56:47< Elvish_Pillager> ha ha
20100611 17:57:05< Aethaeryn> Well, I suppose my point is that "everyone is doing it wrong."
20100611 17:57:11< Elvish_Pillager> So you're making this because you want players to have more choice?
20100611 17:57:23< Aethaeryn> If there was a decent UMC era that I liked 100%, I would simply use it instead of making Thunderstone from the ground-up.
20100611 17:57:24< Elvish_Pillager> Ah, well, do you think that Default is doing it wrong?
20100611 17:57:26 * Espreon wonders if Aethaeryn saw EVILEST's portraits.
20100611 17:57:38< Aethaeryn> Again, "decent UMC era"
20100611 17:57:48< Elvish_Pillager> Well, do you?
20100611 17:58:14< Aethaeryn> I think Default is like that really nice song that's always on the radio... until people get sick of it.
20100611 17:58:17< Elvish_Pillager> Take, for instance, if you make Thunderstone and then they mainline it. There STILL won't be a decent UMC era that you like 100%.
20100611 17:58:20< Aethaeryn> We need another band on the radio.
20100611 17:58:52< Aethaeryn> (1) that is an improbable hypothetical
20100611 17:58:59< Aethaeryn> (2) there'd still be one more era than Default Era.
20100611 17:59:07< Aethaeryn> To which I am making the comparison.
20100611 17:59:20< Valkier> I liked Evilest's portraits at first.
20100611 17:59:26< Aethaeryn> I would say "UMC and all mainline eras excluding Default and its variant AoH" but that would be redundant.
20100611 17:59:32< Valkier> But the monochromatic thing kinda bugs me the more I look at them.
20100611 17:59:36< Aethaeryn> Since there are no mainline eras that are neither Default nor AoH.
20100611 17:59:49< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: People like you are the reason that legal documents are so verbose, repetitive, and cover-all-bases.
20100611 17:59:53 * Espreon disappears...
20100611 18:00:06< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: Not at all. Consider this.
20100611 18:00:27< Elvish_Pillager> You've used a lot more verbosity, but you still haven't stated your position in a way that satisfies me (although I think I mostly get it now.)
20100611 18:00:28< Aethaeryn> Are you sure you're not a lawyer?
20100611 18:00:33< Elvish_Pillager> So clearly, verbosity doesn't satisfy me.
20100611 18:00:35< Elvish_Pillager> Clarity does.
20100611 18:00:46< Elvish_Pillager> That's why I like pure math. =)
20100611 18:00:54< Aethaeryn> Okay.
20100611 18:00:58< Aethaeryn> Let's set several variables.
20100611 18:01:02< Aethaeryn> D = Default Era.
20100611 18:01:24< Elvish_Pillager> Actually I should probably finish my Estiban Goal update instead of continuing this discussion.
20100611 18:01:27< Aethaeryn> G = Good (Polished, Well-Balanced, Nice Art, Fun)
20100611 18:01:39< Elvish_Pillager> Oh wait, it would be hilarious to see you try to use this pseudo-math to state anything. Maybe I'll stay.
20100611 18:01:59< Aethaeryn> Currently, D has the property of G.
20100611 18:02:06< Elvish_Pillager> See, you're going to have to quantify human desire in order to state your position.
20100611 18:02:12< Aethaeryn> But not D has the property of not G.
20100611 18:02:29< Aethaeryn> What I want is at least one not D to have the property of G.
20100611 18:02:46< Aethaeryn> Since most era makers move at glacial speed, hopefully in a handful of summers I can do Thunderstone.
20100611 18:02:49< Elvish_Pillager> yeah, I get that...
20100611 18:03:07< Elvish_Pillager> The only think I'm questioning is _why_ that's what you want
20100611 18:03:13< Aethaeryn> And if you need to know glacial speed, you can look it up at Wikipedia.
20100611 18:03:23< Elvish_Pillager> Wrong units!
20100611 18:03:27< Aethaeryn> Because D != 1
20100611 18:03:31< Aethaeryn> D + ? = 1
20100611 18:03:39< Elvish_Pillager> WTF = OMG
20100611 18:03:40< Aethaeryn> I need to fill in that void to get the value of 1.
20100611 18:04:01< Elvish_Pillager> So you should write (1 - Default) era.
20100611 18:04:23< Aethaeryn> Put in another way...
20100611 18:04:27< Aethaeryn> I am doing this for lulz.
20100611 18:04:44< Elvish_Pillager> But you could do anything for lulz. That doesn't... never mind.
20100611 18:04:54< Aethaeryn> Having a poor social life, I'd rather do something that seems constructive.
20100611 18:05:03< Aethaeryn> Perhaps it is because of my childhood of playing with Legos all day.
20100611 18:05:14< Aethaeryn> Regardless, I have to go for now
20100611 18:05:15< Aethaeryn> brb
20100611 18:05:19< Elvish_Pillager> you care that you have a "poor social life"?
20100611 18:05:30< Elvish_Pillager> p.s. what is a "poor social life"?
20100611 18:07:32< Elvish_Pillager> The term "social life" is nothing but a tool of human-supremacists to try to make you feel guilty about not living by their closed-minded rules.
20100611 18:08:33< Elvish_Pillager> I've never heard anyone use it in a way that wasn't mildly off-putting.
20100611 18:09:57< Elvish_Pillager> The idea of socializing as a "life"... hmm, I wonder if this "life" idea is related to a person's sense of identity (which would explain why I can't relate to it)
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20100611 20:19:33< Valkier> Cocaine is a good life.
20100611 20:19:39< Valkier> As is kicking ferrets.
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20100611 20:26:41< Elvish_Pillager> Did you even listen to what I said? Cocaine isn't a life.
20100611 20:27:23< Valkier> It totally is.
20100611 20:27:29< Elvish_Pillager> It's dead.
20100611 20:27:31< Valkier> You do more living faster on cocaine.
20100611 20:27:53< Valkier> And the ferret thing is just fun.
20100611 20:28:03< Elvish_Pillager> Even if that's true, cocaine only affects a life. It is not itself a life.
20100611 20:28:13< Valkier> Unless you make it your life.
20100611 20:28:21< Elvish_Pillager> You can't make it your life.
20100611 20:28:26< Valkier> What's the difference between that and what I do?
20100611 20:28:29< Valkier> Art is my life.
20100611 20:28:43< Elvish_Pillager> Abusing the language is your life. =)
20100611 20:28:59< Valkier> Lies
20100611 20:29:11< Elvish_Pillager> but on a more serious note, that seems like exactly the kind of identity thing I was talking about.
20100611 20:29:12< Valkier> I don't abuse it. I manipulate it to do my bidding.
20100611 20:29:54< Elvish_Pillager> Would you say that "Art is my life" means approximately the same thing as "Art is essential to my sense of identity"?
20100611 20:30:07< Valkier> Yes
20100611 20:30:32< Elvish_Pillager> Heh...
20100611 20:31:08< Valkier> And so, you could substitute anything you want in that.
20100611 20:31:29< Elvish_Pillager> Well, with "you" in the general sense, yes :p
20100611 20:31:34< Valkier> Which is why kicking ferrets who snort cocaine is also essential to my sense of identity.
20100611 20:31:47< Valkier> Which in turn, is my life.
20100611 20:32:02< Elvish_Pillager> You are so different from me.
20100611 20:32:15< Valkier> Nope.
20100611 20:32:20< Elvish_Pillager> ?!?
20100611 20:32:21< Valkier> Genetically, we have a common ancestor.
20100611 20:32:42< Elvish_Pillager> ditto between us and modern cyanobacteria
20100611 20:32:53< Valkier> Therefore we are also the same.
20100611 20:32:54< Elvish_Pillager> and I'm so different from THEM that I can't even photosynthesize!
20100611 20:32:56< Valkier> Unless you're racist.
20100611 20:33:14< Valkier> Or you may be white. I don't know.
20100611 20:33:28< Elvish_Pillager> "or"?
20100611 20:33:37< Elvish_Pillager> Being white and being racist are mutually exclusive? :p
20100611 20:34:02< Valkier> Well you're either not white and would make the distinction between us based upon that difference, which is racism.
20100611 20:34:25< Valkier> Or you're white and would differentiate yourself based on my character, which is not racist.
20100611 20:34:33< Elvish_Pillager> What? I'm making the distinction between us based on the fact that you have a sense of identity.
20100611 20:34:44< Valkier> Oh. Well you're just weird then.
20100611 20:34:54< Elvish_Pillager> There's also the distinction that I don't make false dichotomies. ^_^
20100611 20:35:06< Valkier> Mine aren't false in the slightest.
20100611 20:35:17< Valkier> They cover too wide a generality to be considered false.
20100611 20:35:34 * Elvish_Pillager glances 6-7 lines up
20100611 20:36:22< Valkier> The racism thing is not false.
20100611 20:36:33< Valkier> If anything, I merely described what it would be in that context.
20100611 20:36:42< Valkier> Nothing false about it.
20100611 20:36:55< Elvish_Pillager> You left out multiple possibilities.
20100611 20:37:08< Elvish_Pillager> One, that I could be non-white and make the distinction between us based on your character.
20100611 20:37:09< Valkier> No, they simply weren't necessary for that explination.
20100611 20:37:25< Elvish_Pillager> As stated, it's a false dichotomy.
20100611 20:37:39< Elvish_Pillager> The sentence is grammatically certain and doesn't leave room for other possibilities to be considered.
20100611 20:37:50< Valkier> Much like mentioning the weather has nothing to do with a colonoscopy.
20100611 20:38:13< Elvish_Pillager> No, it's like you said "Either it is raining or it is sunny", when it's snowing outside.
20100611 20:38:24< Valkier> Is the sun out while snowing?
20100611 20:38:31< Elvish_Pillager> Sometimes.
20100611 20:38:40< Valkier> Then it's not false to say it is rainy or sunny.
20100611 20:38:42< Elvish_Pillager> "When it's cloudy but not raining", then.
20100611 20:38:52< Valkier> There's still a sun out somewhere.
20100611 20:39:06< Valkier> Just may be behind a cloud.
20100611 20:39:14< Elvish_Pillager> Yeah, and it's also always raining somewhere.
20100611 20:39:25< Elvish_Pillager> If you're going to be like that, I can come up with a completely unambiguous statement.
20100611 20:39:39< Valkier> And I'll make it more unambiguous!
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20100611 20:40:14< Valkier> But none of this has to do with the fact that you're either racist or you're not.
20100611 20:40:33< Elvish_Pillager> It's like you said "Either the axiom of choice is provable under the Zermelo-Fraenkel axioms of set theory or its complement is provable."
20100611 20:40:45< Elvish_Pillager> That's exactly the kind of false dichotomy you made.
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20100611 20:40:58< Valkier> Not entirely.
20100611 20:41:16< Elvish_Pillager> Yes, entirely.
20100611 20:41:18< Valkier> You could state that it is a theory and therefore not provable, making the argument moot.
20100611 20:41:35< Elvish_Pillager> You would still have made a false dichotomy.
20100611 20:41:53< Elvish_Pillager> Statement that draws a dichotomy + that statement being false = false dichotomy.
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20100611 20:42:00< Valkier> You'd be asking me to prove or disprove something that cannot be proved or disproved.
20100611 20:42:15< Valkier> It's the same as saying my neighbor is a mermaid because my cat is asleep.
20100611 20:42:18< Valkier> Nonsensicle.
20100611 20:42:24< Elvish_Pillager> Yeah, exactly.
20100611 20:42:32< Elvish_Pillager> You said nonsense earlier in this conversation.
20100611 20:42:37< Elvish_Pillager> Along with a couple of buzzwords.
20100611 20:42:38< Valkier> Prove it.
20100611 20:42:45< Elvish_Pillager> I won't.
20100611 20:42:47< Valkier> You are, in fact, either racist or not racist.
20100611 20:42:53< Elvish_Pillager> Look within yourself, you know it to be true!
20100611 20:43:03< Valkier> Let the lulz flow through you.
20100611 20:43:25< Elvish_Pillager> Okay, now I'm going to get around to putting you on my ignore list like I was going to. It's been entertaining.
20100611 20:43:45< Valkier> You make me sad in the pants.
20100611 20:43:48< Valkier> I love you.
20100611 20:46:20< zookeeper> i don't understand how either of you can possibly find such complete bullcrap entertaining.
20100611 20:46:47< Elvish_Pillager> Actually, I was lying when I said that it was entertaining,
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20100611 20:47:06< Valkier> Well in my defense, I was talking about cocaine and ferrets. I'm not sure you can even entertain the possibility I was serious at any point.
20100611 20:47:49< Valkier> I plead the 5th on any entertainment I may or may not have had.
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20100611 23:18:16< Gambit> Good evening all.
20100611 23:20:45< shadowmaster> sigh. This bronchitis doesn't improve
20100611 23:20:57< shadowmaster> it's getting wrose instead.
20100611 23:21:30< shadowmaster> also
20100611 23:21:36< shadowmaster> Espreon: …
20100611 23:30:42< Blueblaze> :(
20100611 23:30:47< Blueblaze> how are you shadowm?
20100611 23:31:43< shadowmaster> I think you can assume that I feel like crap atm given the statements above
20100611 23:32:48< Blueblaze> Implied, how is your overall health?
20100611 23:32:58< loonycyborg> If it doesn't improve then it's probably http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncurableCoughOfDeath :P
20100611 23:35:28< shadowmaster> thank you for shortening my life expectations
20100611 23:47:11< Espreon> shadowmaster: Jeß?
20100611 23:51:22< Espreon> http://bugs.sabayon.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1221 ... and it only took about four months...
20100611 23:56:23< shadowmaster> nice
20100611 23:56:48-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20100611 23:57:39< Espreon> ... and I need to find torangan IRL so that I can kick him in the face for not using my script.
20100611 23:58:00< Espreon> ... and I sent him a PM quite awhile ago.
20100611 23:58:33< Espreon> But, that would require me to actually do work, so... yeahz.
20100611 23:58:43-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20100611 23:58:51< Gambit> s/kick him in the face/smack him in his earhole/
20100611 23:59:08< Aethaeryn> Hey! That's not very nice.
20100611 23:59:24< Espreon> Aethaeryn: But, he's not using my script...
20100611 23:59:31< Espreon> (Torangan)
--- Log closed Sat Jun 12 00:00:21 2010