--- Log opened Sun Jun 13 00:00:27 2010
20100613 00:17:51-!- Mythological [Mythologic@77.28.82.189] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20100613 00:22:58< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: by the way, I have completed my update of Estiban (although I haven't released it)
20100613 00:24:04< Aethaeryn> cool
20100613 00:24:26< Aethaeryn> I've been plotting with Blueblaze and Espreon over a sea-casino
20100613 00:24:39< Elvish_Pillager> Sea-casino?
20100613 00:24:45< Aethaeryn> *really* long story.
20100613 00:24:50< Elvish_Pillager> Also, I'm trying to decide how to divide it into add-ons
20100613 00:24:55< Blueblaze> m
20100613 00:25:03< Elvish_Pillager> Ooh, you should put Russian Roulette as a game at your sea-casino!
20100613 00:25:08< Blueblaze> yes
20100613 00:25:11< Blueblaze> we can totally do that
20100613 00:25:20< Elvish_Pillager> I once had a Russian Roulette map that took six players
20100613 00:25:24< Elvish_Pillager> and crashed Wesnoth for one of them
20100613 00:25:27< Blueblaze> yes
20100613 00:25:29< Blueblaze> Elvish_Pillager: I remember that
20100613 00:25:29< Elvish_Pillager> I could do that again in 1.8
20100613 00:25:40< Blueblaze> that probably was the first game I played of yours
20100613 00:25:44< Blueblaze> one of the first Wesnoth maps I played
20100613 00:25:44< Elvish_Pillager> since I know a reliable OOS mechanism and a reliable crash mechanism
20100613 00:25:48< Elvish_Pillager> lol
20100613 00:26:07 * Elvish_Pillager adds it to their TODO
20100613 00:26:24< Elvish_Pillager> crap, what was the crash...
20100613 00:26:46< Elvish_Pillager> oh yeah, using movement_cost in a formula= in an SUF
20100613 00:27:46-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100613 00:28:16< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: Estiban is kind of *the* canonical THS map so I'm considering releasing it as part of the main add-on.
20100613 00:28:31< Elvish_Pillager> Or I could make a separate EP's High Seas Maps add-on.
20100613 00:29:03< Aethaeryn> you can release it as part of the add-on era if you're not going to make any more maps
20100613 00:29:09< Aethaeryn> as a way of demonstrating
20100613 00:29:15< Aethaeryn> mappacks only make sense if they're... a pack of maps.
20100613 00:29:27< Elvish_Pillager> well, I could also release it just as Estibian Gaol
20100613 00:29:30< Elvish_Pillager> as its own add-on
20100613 00:29:40< Aethaeryn> multiplayer scenarios are probably the least downloaded of all the add-ons.
20100613 00:29:59< Elvish_Pillager> hmm
20100613 00:30:00< Aethaeryn> since multiplayer eras, campaigns, and mappacks all have more potential interest.
20100613 00:30:31< Elvish_Pillager> What if I do write more THS maps though?
20100613 00:32:28< Aethaeryn> then you can always fork it
20100613 00:32:55< Aethaeryn> just like if any of my maps in my mappack get too large and becomes its own thing (e.g. maybe Master of Dungeons) I can just remove it from my mappack and publish it separately
20100613 00:33:08< Elvish_Pillager> So you think I should include it with the engine and fork it out only if I make more maps so that I can make an EP's-High-Seas-Maps add-on?
20100613 00:33:24< Elvish_Pillager> or are you saying something else?
20100613 00:38:54< Aethaeryn> pretty much
20100613 00:38:58< Aethaeryn> keep it in as an example map with the era itself
20100613 00:39:02< Elvish_Pillager> Sounds reasonable.
20100613 00:39:03< Aethaeryn> and then if there are more maps, then fork it
20100613 00:39:18< Elvish_Pillager> Next I'll make a THS rumble.
20100613 00:39:26< Aethaeryn> well, even a rumble would work
20100613 00:39:31< Elvish_Pillager> Really?!
20100613 00:39:36< Aethaeryn> as part of the era
20100613 00:39:39< Elvish_Pillager> what use would the ships be?
20100613 00:39:46< Aethaeryn> it's only when it gets unwieldly large (more than 3 significant non-tiny ones) that you'd have to fork
20100613 00:39:48< Aethaeryn> imo
20100613 00:39:51< Elvish_Pillager> Okay
20100613 00:39:51< Aethaeryn> well
20100613 00:39:53< Elvish_Pillager> well...
20100613 00:39:56< Aethaeryn> here's how the ships are useful in a rumble.
20100613 00:40:02< Aethaeryn> you have them start in opposite corners
20100613 00:40:08< Aethaeryn> with lots of resources and the ability to build huge fleets
20100613 00:40:17< Aethaeryn> they'll simply have more resources than the soldiers they can fit on ships
20100613 00:40:24< Aethaeryn> so they'll have to buy a large number of ships to carry the soldiers
20100613 00:40:26< Elvish_Pillager> that's not a rumble.
20100613 00:40:33< Aethaeryn> well
20100613 00:40:37< Elvish_Pillager> A rumble is like a 5x5 map where you start with 20-50 gold.
20100613 00:40:40< Aethaeryn> it will be a rumble by THS standards.
20100613 00:40:48< Aethaeryn> if the usual map is around 100x100
20100613 00:40:55< Aethaeryn> and you make a 25x25 mostly sea map
20100613 00:41:02< Aethaeryn> with lots of gold and you start in the corners
20100613 00:41:14< Aethaeryn> maybe "deathmatch" would fit it better though
20100613 00:41:14< Elvish_Pillager> That sounds like a neat idea I guess, but it's not a rumble.
20100613 00:41:16< Elvish_Pillager> yeah
20100613 00:41:18< Elvish_Pillager> Or.
20100613 00:41:27< Elvish_Pillager> I want to refer to the actual Roman Colosseum for that
20100613 00:41:40< Elvish_Pillager> because they hosted sea battles in it sometimes, and that would be an awesome reference.
20100613 00:42:37< Aethaeryn> well, yes
20100613 00:42:44< Aethaeryn> if a rumble is like a gladiator fight...
20100613 00:42:50< Aethaeryn> then this would be a naumacia
20100613 00:42:54< Aethaeryn> or whatever the term is
20100613 00:43:02< Aethaeryn> naumachia
20100613 00:43:03< Aethaeryn> close :P
20100613 00:43:06< Elvish_Pillager> I didn't know there was a term for it
20100613 00:43:09< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naumachia
20100613 00:43:25< Elvish_Pillager> that would be an awesome name for the map.
20100613 00:43:25< Aethaeryn> I took an Ancient Studies class on "The Roman World" for a culture gen ed.
20100613 00:43:57< Aethaeryn> So it was 1/3 Roman culture, 1/3 Roman history (republic and empire, mostly just the early bit), 1/3 Roman literature translated into English (as readings)
20100613 00:44:03< Aethaeryn> Was actually pretty fun.
20100613 00:44:15< Aethaeryn> (Mostly just the early empire, I mean)
20100613 00:44:44< Aethaeryn> I understand Rome now a lot more than before, and it gave me some Latin vocabulary I wouldn't otherwise have.
20100613 00:44:54< Aethaeryn> Since we did spend a week or two on games and entertainment.
20100613 00:45:23< Aethaeryn> I really wish I could get a broader education...
20100613 00:45:46< Elvish_Pillager> Broader than you already have? :p
20100613 00:45:52< Aethaeryn> Too bad I'll basically have to finish a semester late (vs. the 4 year usual)... if there's no scheduling/prereq conflicts :(
20100613 00:46:18< Aethaeryn> Well, I took two classes in economics... 3 in political science, 1 in psychology, 1 in sociology, 2 in history, 1 in ancient studies (not just history, since it focused on literature and culture too)
20100613 00:46:53< Aethaeryn> and my first major is philosophy, which is *very* broad.
20100613 00:47:21< Aethaeryn> It's unfortunate that our society puts a higher value on depth of knowledge.
20100613 00:47:52< Elvish_Pillager> well, depth of knowledge has more obvious uses.
20100613 00:48:00< Aethaeryn> To society at large, not to individuality.
20100613 00:48:05< Aethaeryn> My personal ideal would be to be a bit of a Renaissance man...
20100613 00:48:14< Aethaeryn> That's one of the reasons why I taught myself to be ambidextrous.
20100613 00:48:16< Elvish_Pillager> how familiar
20100613 00:48:31< Aethaeryn> (And yes, writing with your right hand is a social construct... People convince you to do it when you're really young.)
20100613 00:48:53< Elvish_Pillager> Personally, I prefer not to write with one hand at all :p
20100613 00:49:04< Aethaeryn> (And few people have a patience to take the 5-6 years it takes to go from 0 to near-equality in their non-dominant hand.)
20100613 00:49:07< Aethaeryn> (I did.)
20100613 00:49:18< Elvish_Pillager> ah yeah, that makes sense
20100613 00:49:59< Elvish_Pillager> I personally don't see much use. I'm ambidextrous in large-scale gestures but not in minute-technique things like writing.
20100613 00:50:37< Aethaeryn> Well, it's a nice trick to break ice with people.
20100613 00:50:41< Aethaeryn> If you have two pencils and paper.
20100613 00:50:42< Elvish_Pillager> Ha ha.
20100613 00:50:49< Aethaeryn> I want to learn how to draw though, since that would be more impressive than writing.
20100613 00:51:06< Elvish_Pillager> You mean, with either hand?
20100613 00:51:14< Aethaeryn> One reason I want to pick up Greek again is so I can write Latin with one hand and Greek with my other at the same time.
20100613 00:51:20< Elvish_Pillager> XD
20100613 00:51:25< Aethaeryn> And no, I mean both hands, not either.
20100613 00:51:38< Aethaeryn> I didn't get to that point until last spring.
20100613 00:51:46< Aethaeryn> And I've been teaching myself since 11th grade.
20100613 00:51:58< Elvish_Pillager> I mean, is the problem that you can't draw (very well) with either hand, or that you can't draw (very well) just with your non-dominant hand?
20100613 00:52:02< Aethaeryn> So, it only took me 4 years to get to the point of near-parity and writing two different things at the same time fairly neatly.
20100613 00:52:10< Aethaeryn> Well, growing up I had a bit of ego issues.
20100613 00:52:22< Aethaeryn> Any subject I wasn't better than everyone else in, I didn't take seriously.
20100613 00:52:40< Aethaeryn> So, I didn't take art classes seriously, nor did I take music too seriously since I was always second-seat, both with alto and tenor saxaphones.
20100613 00:53:04< Elvish_Pillager> Hmm.
20100613 00:53:44 * Elvish_Pillager tries to decide how to do the version numbering for the High Seas add-on
20100613 00:53:58< Aethaeryn> I tend to do 0.x.x
20100613 00:54:05< Aethaeryn> 0 because 1.0 would be mostly complete.
20100613 00:54:09< Elvish_Pillager> right
20100613 00:54:19< Aethaeryn> the second digit is basically only updated when I update Wesnoth or do a really major overhaul
20100613 00:54:22< Elvish_Pillager> but I need to decide how significant I want each of the xes to be
20100613 00:54:23< Aethaeryn> and the actual release is the third one
20100613 00:54:38< Aethaeryn> so if it's 0.1.0 in Wesnoth 1.6 it'll be 0.2.0 on Wesnoth 1.8 etc.
20100613 00:54:41< Elvish_Pillager> yeah, that's basically what I'm doing with EoHS
20100613 00:54:53< Aethaeryn> Unless I do something major, like a rewrite or something.
20100613 00:55:03< Aethaeryn> Then I might bump the 2nd digit within a Wesnoth release.
20100613 00:55:10< Aethaeryn> But generally, the biggest non-gradual makeovers come when I update them
20100613 00:55:11< Elvish_Pillager> although I do enough major overhauls that the 0.x digit increases fairly frequently :p
20100613 00:55:14< Aethaeryn> Like add new features/terrain
20100613 00:55:34< Aethaeryn> well, anyway, that's fairly logical as a system.
20100613 00:55:52< Aethaeryn> 1.0 would be saying "this is where I wanted to be when I started, and now it's pretty complete/playable, but I'll probably still add more stuff"
20100613 00:55:57< Aethaeryn> or rather 1.0.0
20100613 00:56:21< Elvish_Pillager> Bob said that they might cede THS to me so that my add-on would be the official The High Seas version
20100613 00:56:34< Elvish_Pillager> Then I'd rename it The High Seas and make its graphic the galleon image
20100613 00:56:48< Elvish_Pillager> Until then, I'll leave it as EP's High Seas Engine with the pirate image
20100613 00:57:00< Elvish_Pillager> Hmm. What add-on type is it?
20100613 00:57:22< Elvish_Pillager> Era? Mappack? Scenario? Media?
20100613 00:57:45< Elvish_Pillager> none of them really fit
20100613 00:58:53< Aethaeryn> probably put it as era or scenario
20100613 00:59:06< Aethaeryn> yes, it's not a true era
20100613 00:59:12< Aethaeryn> but it is a dependency, and it comes with an era that can be used
20100613 00:59:20< Elvish_Pillager> I think I'll go with scenario_mp
20100613 00:59:29< Elvish_Pillager> change to map pack if I put more maps in it
20100613 01:00:39< Elvish_Pillager> Released.
20100613 01:00:47< Aethaeryn> I'll make the naumachia if you don't
20100613 01:00:49< Elvish_Pillager> The add-on now contains Estiban Gaol
20100613 01:00:54< Aethaeryn> won't be too hard, especially if it doesn't have any raids
20100613 01:00:58< Elvish_Pillager> Do you want to?
20100613 01:01:02< Aethaeryn> just four islands, one at each corner, and a giant battle in the middle
20100613 01:01:11< Aethaeryn> starting with a high amount of gold and with a high income
20100613 01:01:13< Elvish_Pillager> What recruits would be allowed, etc?
20100613 01:01:18< Aethaeryn> everything
20100613 01:01:29< Aethaeryn> there'd be islands (hopefully fair) where everything can be bought
20100613 01:01:38< Aethaeryn> and income would be ridiculous, hopefully.
20100613 01:01:56< Aethaeryn> if possible, you should start with a fleet already, not just one ship
20100613 01:02:04< Aethaeryn> so a flagship, a galleon, and three frigates or something
20100613 01:02:06< Elvish_Pillager> I was thinking that you would recruit your initial forces and then either not have income anymore or lose the ability to recruit
20100613 01:02:17< Aethaeryn> nah
20100613 01:02:19< Elvish_Pillager> and you'd only get to bring what you bought and could carry on ships
20100613 01:02:20< Aethaeryn> it's a small arena
20100613 01:02:22< Aethaeryn> there's nowhere to run.
20100613 01:02:31< Elvish_Pillager> I don't mean for running
20100613 01:02:37< Aethaeryn> remember, even a sea of 25 or so
20100613 01:02:44< Aethaeryn> can be reached in 2.5 turns in this game
20100613 01:02:48< Elvish_Pillager> is tiny, yeah
20100613 01:02:50< Elvish_Pillager> just 2 :p
20100613 01:03:22< Elvish_Pillager> by the way, I took away ships' zone of control
20100613 01:03:36< Elvish_Pillager> I'd like it if I could make them exert zone of control against other ships, but not against land units
20100613 01:03:46< Elvish_Pillager> but I don't think there's a way to do that?
20100613 01:04:25< Aethaeryn> uh
20100613 01:04:28< Aethaeryn> one problem
20100613 01:04:52< Aethaeryn> without ZoC, piloting becomes pointless except for sea monsters, which are no threat after the first 10 turns when they're all stamped out or in unpopular areas
20100613 01:05:01< Aethaeryn> so everyone will just navigate
20100613 01:05:16< Elvish_Pillager> no way
20100613 01:05:18< Aethaeryn> in THS the original, back when there was a ton more ships than now...
20100613 01:05:22< Aethaeryn> piloting was actually useful
20100613 01:05:26< Elvish_Pillager> A ton more ships? what?
20100613 01:05:41< Aethaeryn> there was at least 8 to 10 man o wars
20100613 01:05:43< Aethaeryn> at least by mid game
20100613 01:05:48< Elvish_Pillager> Woah.
20100613 01:05:49< Aethaeryn> and it was a game of dodging AI ships, really :P
20100613 01:05:53< Elvish_Pillager> Woah.
20100613 01:05:55< Aethaeryn> couldn't camp since at least half will chase some sucker
20100613 01:06:00< Elvish_Pillager> Bob really toned it down?
20100613 01:06:08< Aethaeryn> well, because of the AI
20100613 01:06:12< Aethaeryn> they didn't chase the nearest
20100613 01:06:16< Aethaeryn> they'd just all mob one poor soul
20100613 01:06:18< Aethaeryn> and then another
20100613 01:06:19< Aethaeryn> and then another
20100613 01:06:22< Elvish_Pillager> Right.
20100613 01:06:28< Aethaeryn> and they were tougher than they are now too
20100613 01:06:33< Elvish_Pillager> You know, we could make formula AI to stop them from doing that.
20100613 01:06:37< Aethaeryn> so basically at least 6 ships...
20100613 01:06:41< Aethaeryn> where just 2 could kill you
20100613 01:06:50< Aethaeryn> all heading at one random person
20100613 01:06:57< Elvish_Pillager> like, make the pirates blindly chase and attack the closest ship, and man-of-wars patrol somehow
20100613 01:06:58< Aethaeryn> but yeah, I would like more than 2 at once
20100613 01:07:10< Aethaeryn> and that would be cool if the man-o-wars could patrol the coast of Wesalwyn
20100613 01:07:21< Aethaeryn> in pairs, of cours
20100613 01:07:26< Elvish_Pillager> ha ha ha ha ha
20100613 01:07:29< Aethaeryn> makes it harder to camp with all the villages
20100613 01:08:23< Elvish_Pillager> An all-sea battle could give the ships their zone of control back, anyway
20100613 01:09:18< Elvish_Pillager> I want to code one that works like this:
20100613 01:09:31< Elvish_Pillager> Each player gets about 1000 gold and access to all the shop types.
20100613 01:09:41< Elvish_Pillager> (In separate areas.)
20100613 01:10:03< Elvish_Pillager> Then each player has to sail all their ships into an all-deep-water entrance area.
20100613 01:10:20< Elvish_Pillager> Then the entrance areas close behind them and open in front of them, and they're in the mostly-water arena.
20100613 01:10:31< Elvish_Pillager> Which doesn't have any shops in it, just death!
20100613 01:16:39< Aethaeryn> well, I was thinking that the presence of some islands and villages could add tactically.
20100613 01:16:48< Aethaeryn> for instance, a place with lots of villages might be tried to held for healing
20100613 01:16:57< Elvish_Pillager> Yeah that's a cool idea
20100613 01:17:00< Aethaeryn> or you could hide behind an island in a certain sense.
20100613 01:17:14< Aethaeryn> having some of those villages be recruiting has some advantages
20100613 01:17:20< Elvish_Pillager> Just not as a place to recruit more units
20100613 01:17:43< Aethaeryn> (1) you don't lose the battle before it begins... e.g. if you are all drakes and someone's all cold-and-pierce, you're screwed
20100613 01:17:53< Aethaeryn> (2) you can heal ships, too, at shipyards
20100613 01:18:25< Elvish_Pillager> (1) that would be stupid
20100613 01:18:44< Elvish_Pillager> (2) the healing isn't designed to be used during battles... that sounds kind of cheap
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20100613 01:22:26< Aethaeryn> I suppose just water villages for slow healing would be best
20100613 01:22:39< Aethaeryn> too bad there's no way to make certain villages heal +16 for added incentive
20100613 01:22:44< Aethaeryn> since income wouldn't be in play
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20100613 02:59:51< Gambit> And why is there no way to make villages heal +16?
20100613 03:00:01< Gambit> Oh that was hours ago :\
20100613 03:00:17< Gambit> Would be easy enough to fake though.
20100613 03:00:37< Espreon> Gambit: There is; just define your own village terrain.
20100613 03:00:47< Espreon> ... and have your add-on replace/whatever...
20100613 03:00:57< Gambit> Aethaeryn: ^
20100613 03:01:20< Gambit> Oh that's right though. He doesn't like his to have to be downloaded.
20100613 03:01:32< Gambit> You can still fake it easily though.
20100613 03:01:45< Espreon> Hmmmmm?
20100613 03:01:54< Espreon> Why would it have to be downloaded?
20100613 03:01:58< Aethaeryn> well, technically it's EP's
20100613 03:02:03< Aethaeryn> maybe he wants his to be downloaded, who knows.
20100613 03:02:13< Elvish_Pillager> what?
20100613 03:02:31< Elvish_Pillager> oh I see
20100613 03:02:37< Gambit> Espreon: Terrain doesn't transfer over network does it?
20100613 03:02:51< Elvish_Pillager> What. I'm sure there's a way to make the villages heal +16,
20100613 03:03:08< Elvish_Pillager> I could just give all units an invisible ability that gives them regenerates +16 but only works on villages.
20100613 03:03:10< Elvish_Pillager> Easy as pie.
20100613 03:03:11< Espreon> Gambit: Meh, IDK.
20100613 03:03:33 * Espreon doesn't make MP addons
20100613 03:03:49< Gambit> Missing out.
20100613 03:06:12< Elvish_Pillager> Not missing much.
20100613 03:08:20< Elvish_Pillager> ...I don't think I've ever written a .cfg file with as many [not] tags per line.
20100613 03:58:24< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: I've coded up a possible Naumachia map.
20100613 03:58:27< Elvish_Pillager> Want to see it?
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20100613 07:32:50< Espreon> Hmmmm... xrender 0.9.6...
20100613 07:33:04< Espreon> Maybe this'll remedy my problems...
20100613 07:34:08< Espreon> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=434406#p434406 ... Uh... hwæt‽
20100613 07:40:26< Espreon> Aethaeryn: ^
20100613 07:44:49< Valkier> Someone is doing the 3D thing eh?
20100613 07:52:15-!- Valkier [~IceChat7@c-174-55-104-2.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Easy as 3.14159265358979323846...]
20100613 08:01:35-!- Mythological [Mythologic@77.28.82.189] has quit []
20100613 08:27:08< Espreon> ... and of course it didn't remedy the problem...
20100613 08:40:52-!- Blueblaze [~nick@76.202.16.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100613 09:39:10< Aethaeryn> Espreon: we should have a betting pool on how long it will last on Wikipdia, home of the deletion Nazis.
20100613 09:39:21< Aethaeryn> If 8 newspapers and blogs don't mention something, good luck keeping it alive.
20100613 09:39:47< Aethaeryn> Then again, it's so massive that there's inconsistencies: if none of the deletion nazis notice it, it could be there 10 years after he abandons the thread :P
20100613 09:40:43< Aethaeryn> Espreon: Can we start a Wikipedia article for #Wesnoth-umc-dev ? Just the IRC channel. The actual project can get a Wikipedia article too, I suppose.
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20100613 14:02:02< King_Elendil> Can someone help me out with a coding question (WML)?
20100613 14:03:03< King_Elendil> how do  I make an event change what it does if a certain event has already been fired?
20100613 14:07:22< zookeeper> using variables of course
20100613 14:50:08< King_Elendil> right, I just don't know how that would look. do you think you could find or whip up an example for me?
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20100613 16:11:39< AI0867> [event] name=first event [set_variable] name=firsteventfired value=yes [/set_variable
20100613 16:11:42< AI0867> ][/event]
20100613 16:12:27< AI0867> [event] name=second event [if][variable]name=firsteventfired equals=yes[/variable][then] stuffiffirsteventfired[/then][else]stuffiffirsteventnotfired[/else][/if][/event]
20100613 16:24:31< timotei> AI0867: hey there
20100613 16:25:05< timotei> AI0867: do you have any idea whis this happened? : http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml.ide/src-gen/org/wesnoth/wml/CampaignType.java?rev=43221&view=diff&r1=43221&r2=43220&p1=trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml.ide/src-gen/org/wesnoth/wml/CampaignType.java&p2=/trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml.ide/src-gen/org/wesnoth/wml/CampaignType.java
20100613 16:31:03< AI0867> looking...
20100613 16:31:28< AI0867> whitespace changes, probably
20100613 16:31:39< AI0867> viewcvs doesn't show those
20100613 16:32:21< AI0867> timotei: take a look at the unified diff or context diff
20100613 16:32:31< timotei> ok
20100613 16:32:45< timotei> with git diff for example?
20100613 16:33:00< AI0867> no, with the menu on that page
20100613 16:33:16< timotei> ok
20100613 16:33:54< timotei> meh... I think it changed the EOF. the whole file is "-" and then "+
20100613 16:34:55< AI0867> git diff indeed shows that
20100613 17:03:54< Espreon> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=434600#p434600 ... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
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20100613 17:18:20< timotei> Espreon: what kernel you use on sabayon?
20100613 17:19:49< Espreon> timotei: I use a customized Sabayon kernel (.32)
20100613 17:20:06 * Espreon is too lazy to upgrade
20100613 17:20:19< timotei> ah
20100613 17:20:23< timotei> I need/want to upgrade
20100613 17:20:31< timotei> sleep is not working at all
20100613 17:20:35< timotei> and I NEED that!
20100613 17:20:56< Espreon> timotei: You mean hibernate?
20100613 17:20:57< timotei> don't want to get back to windows
20100613 17:21:01< timotei> no. sleep
20100613 17:21:03< timotei> suspend to ram:D
20100613 17:21:08< timotei> it works half
20100613 17:21:08< Espreon> Ah, that.
20100613 17:21:21< timotei> after resuming, the LCD (notebook dell studio 15) remains back
20100613 17:21:23< Espreon> IDK about that.
20100613 17:21:23< timotei> black*
20100613 17:21:34< timotei> you use x86 or x64?
20100613 17:21:35< Espreon> Ask the nice people on #sabayon
20100613 17:21:38< Espreon> x86.
20100613 17:22:01< timotei> I need to think to switch to x86 too, adobiii flash works too slow on x64:(
20100613 17:22:01< Espreon> Noöne will care about x64 till 2037.
20100613 17:22:04< timotei> :))
20100613 17:22:16< Espreon> In 2037, everyone will convert like crazy.
20100613 17:22:28< Espreon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem ... ;)
20100613 17:22:42< AI0867> Espreon: a 64 bit timer has existed in 32 bit linux for years
20100613 17:23:19< Espreon> But what about Window$ and Mac OS X?
20100613 17:23:30< Espreon> We may be safe, but, yeahz.
20100613 17:23:31< AI0867> a better reason is the ability to allocate over 3 GB to a single process
20100613 17:24:15< AI0867> Espreon: windows uses a 64 bit timer of milliseconds I believe
20100613 17:24:33< AI0867> it used to use a 32 bit timer of milliseconds, but that limited the uptime of any windows system to 49.7 days
20100613 17:24:51< Espreon> I see.
20100613 17:24:52< AI0867> er, that's an uptime timer though
20100613 17:25:03< Espreon> So, we can still not give a shit in 2038?
20100613 17:25:15< AI0867> the issue has already been fixed in every modern OS
20100613 17:25:53< Espreon> Good.
20100613 17:25:57< AI0867> the real issue is apps still using outdated syscalls, which return a 32 bit value
20100613 17:26:04< Espreon> Ah.
20100613 17:26:07< AI0867> they'll have to be upgraded before that time
20100613 17:26:22< AI0867> it's like y2k, the OSs were ready over a decade ahead of time
20100613 17:26:47< AI0867> but ancient COBOL programmers had to be pulled out of retirement to fix programs they'd coded decades ago
20100613 17:26:50 * Espreon doesn't know that much about these time issues
20100613 17:26:56< Espreon> Oh, wow.
20100613 17:27:30< AI0867> back in the 60s and 70s, using only 2 bytes rather than 4 to encode the date was a big saving...
20100613 17:27:45< AI0867> s/date/year
20100613 17:28:04< AI0867> and they didn't expect their program to be used for decades...
20100613 17:30:32< Valkier> Little did they know. Future generations were damn lazy.
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20100613 19:15:23 * Espreon wishes that Aethaeryn were here
20100613 19:15:34 * Espreon 's probably gonna make an æra.
20100613 19:19:17< timotei> Espreon: ok, updated the kernel. rebooting :D
20100613 19:19:29< Espreon> OK! :D
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20100613 19:32:55< King_Elendil> AI0867: thank you! :D
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20100613 20:11:13< Espreon> timotei: Any luck?
20100613 20:11:33< timotei> Espreon: no wireless ... chatting with #sabayon guys :D
20100613 20:11:43< Espreon> timotei: Your card?
20100613 20:11:50< Espreon> Is it a Broadcom?
20100613 20:11:54< timotei> yes
20100613 20:11:55< timotei> :))
20100613 20:12:24< Espreon> OK, open /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist
20100613 20:12:33< Espreon> *blacklist.conf
20100613 20:12:41< Espreon> timotei: Now, add the following:
20100613 20:12:42< timotei> yeah. "tried" that fix:P
20100613 20:12:46< timotei> blacklist b43
20100613 20:12:49< Espreon> blacklist b44
20100613 20:12:51< Espreon> blacklist ssb
20100613 20:13:10< timotei> let me try with 44
20100613 20:13:23< Espreon> Then: "rmmod wl b43 b44 ssb && modprobe wl"
20100613 20:13:23< timotei> ok brb
20100613 20:16:34< Espreon> timotei: Of course, you may want to uncomment line eighteen.
20100613 20:17:49-!- timotei [~timo@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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20100613 20:31:58< timotei> Espreon: no luck :(
20100613 20:32:04< Espreon> timotei: What was the last message that you recieved from me?
20100613 20:32:14< timotei> <Espreon> Then: "rmmod wl b43 b44 ssb && modprobe wl"
20100613 20:32:27< Espreon> Well, then... try the ndiswrapper method.
20100613 20:32:39< Espreon> If you're gonna do that, add wl to the blacklist.
20100613 20:32:55< Espreon> 20:16 < Espreon> timotei: Of course, you may want to uncomment line eighteen.
20100613 20:32:55< timotei> wha?? don't want to try again things. I'll stick with .33 for a while then.
20100613 20:33:04< timotei> line eighteen?:))
20100613 20:33:13 * zookeeper thinks "rmmod wl b43 b44 ssb && modprobe wl" looks very much like txtspk
20100613 20:33:41< Espreon> zookeeper: Uh, but it is valid.
20100613 20:33:45< timotei>  zookeeper: define: txtspk
20100613 20:34:36< Espreon> timotei: Wait, wha? So, you have wireless working in .33?
20100613 20:34:42< zookeeper> timotei, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_language
20100613 20:36:21< timotei> Espreon: yes
20100613 20:36:35< Espreon> But, you should still uncomment line eighteen.
20100613 20:36:35< timotei> but wait, seems the kernel upgrade didn't update the wireless drivers for .34 :))
20100613 20:36:46< Espreon> Well... YEAH!
20100613 20:37:06< timotei> :))
20100613 20:37:08< timotei> reboo
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20100613 20:39:50< timotei> works now :X
20100613 20:40:05< Espreon> So, you rebuilt the modules, eh?
20100613 20:40:17< timotei> no
20100613 20:40:23< timotei> equo install broadcom-sta
20100613 20:40:25< timotei> :P
20100613 20:41:06< Espreon> Hey, I don't use Entropy.
20100613 20:41:18< timotei> :D
20100613 20:41:22< timotei> me yes
20100613 20:41:22< Espreon> That command probably pulled wl "built" for .34.
20100613 20:41:28< Espreon> timotei: Well... boo!
20100613 20:41:39< Espreon> But, did you uncomment line eighteen?
20100613 20:41:44< Espreon> If not, you should have.
20100613 20:42:24< Espreon> Out of curiosity, do you use Portage at all?
20100613 20:42:26< timotei> it's commented :)
20100613 20:42:31< Espreon> UNCOMMENT IT!
20100613 20:42:39< Espreon> That driver... is evil!
20100613 20:42:40< timotei> I don't have any beeps :P
20100613 20:42:45< Espreon> Lucky!
20100613 20:42:50< timotei> :))
20100613 20:43:00< timotei> managed to get rid of them by other ways
20100613 20:43:19< Espreon> Did you rip out the device that makes them?
20100613 20:43:58< timotei> Espreon: I don't think so. modified some things but don't remember what
20100613 20:44:03< Espreon> I see...
20100613 20:44:06< timotei> oh, in .bashrc maybe
20100613 20:44:59< Espreon> In Firefox, Edit->Find; type something that doesn't exist on the current page.
20100613 20:45:11< Espreon> If you don't get any beeps, yay!
20100613 20:45:34< timotei> yeah, did that already :D
20100613 20:45:41< timotei> it drove me crazy in those days
20100613 20:45:45< Espreon> Indeed.
20100613 20:45:54< Espreon> timotei: So, do you ever use Portage?
20100613 20:46:05< timotei> Espreon: yes. sometimes
20100613 20:46:23< timotei> when sulfur doesn't do the right job
20100613 20:47:28< Espreon> In that case, you should have learnt how to rebuild modules... with... "module-rebuild"...
20100613 20:47:45< Espreon> You probably still have modules that should be rebuilt.
20100613 20:50:47< timotei> meh. don't remember
20100613 20:53:01< timotei> Espreon: how does it work KDE for you?
20100613 20:53:06< timotei> in terms of performance
20100613 20:53:19< timotei> do you have composition enabled? aurorae theming engine?
20100613 20:53:23< timotei> any eye-candy thingys?
20100613 20:55:42< Espreon> I don't have any of that crap enabled.
20100613 20:55:57< Espreon> OpenGL mode is too slow; XRender has problems.
20100613 20:56:12< Espreon> Now, if I could still use fglrx... yeahz...
20100613 20:57:53< timotei> So... winodws are "Oxygen"?
20100613 20:58:16< Espreon> Yeah, the default window decoration is Oxygen.
20100613 20:58:27< Espreon> When compositing is enabled, you get a nice glow effect.
20100613 20:58:53< Espreon> timotei: Performance, in this case, really depends on your video driver.
20100613 20:59:20< Espreon> Now, Compiz works nicely here, but, I don't feel like having it enabled.
20100613 21:00:15< timotei> meh, XRender is JUST too slow, ogl is better
20100613 21:00:23< Espreon> XRender is faster here.
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20100613 21:49:32< Espreon> un214: Remember when you said that you wanted things such as [copy_array]?
20100613 21:49:43< un214> yeah
20100613 21:50:02< Espreon> If you really want then, just file an FR. Now's the time to be asking for things.
20100613 21:50:06< Espreon> *them
20100613 21:50:17< un214> I said it when I had reason to believe that it took 60 seconds to iterate over a 1024 array
20100613 21:50:29< un214> shadowmaster says that's no longer the case
20100613 21:50:37< Espreon> Ah, I see...
20100613 21:55:26< un214> besides I alreay put the feature request in and it immediately got marked won't do even though I offered to do it
20100613 21:56:27< Espreon> Hmmm, I see...
20100613 21:58:04< Espreon> Oh joy, boucman broke more things in IftU, TSL, and possibly AtS.
20100613 21:58:15< Espreon> shadowmaster: ^
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20100613 22:09:07< Espreon> Hmmmm... maybe I should give KDE 4.5 another spin.
20100613 22:11:21< Espreon> According to timotei, I should probably be using jwm or something.
20100613 22:11:25 * Espreon rolls his eyes
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20100613 23:22:55< AI0867> 21:58 < Espreon> Oh joy, boucman broke more things in IftU, TSL, and possibly AtS. <-- what happen?
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20100613 23:28:46< Espreon> AI0867: He changed TERRAIN_BASE or something.
20100613 23:29:24< Espreon> AI0867: TRANSITION_BASE, actually.
20100613 23:29:54< Espreon> ... or he killed it.
20100613 23:31:20< AI0867> ah, that
20100613 23:47:49< Espreon> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=434810#p434810 ... LOL.
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 14 00:00:28 2010