--- Log opened Sat Jun 26 00:00:00 2010
--- Day changed Sat Jun 26 2010
20100626 00:00:00< Gambit> I bombed that for linux.
20100626 00:00:05< shadowmaster> you can track Testing.
20100626 00:00:14< Gambit> Aced it for windows though! OS reinstall fixes everything <3
20100626 00:00:16< Espreon> Gambit: Which distro?
20100626 00:00:17< shadowmaster> or you can backport stuff from Unstable
20100626 00:00:21< shadowmaster> or you can even pull stuff from Unstable directly.
20100626 00:00:21< Gambit> No Matter What (tm)
20100626 00:00:26< Gambit> Espreon: Various ubuntu flavors
20100626 00:00:30< Espreon> EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
20100626 00:00:34< Aethaeryn> Gambit: HDD failure?
20100626 00:00:44< shadowmaster> or you can pull stuff from Experimental!
20100626 00:00:48< Gambit> I thought we were talking software...
20100626 00:00:51< Aethaeryn> >:-)
20100626 00:00:52< shadowmaster> right now I'm tempted to pull Iceweasel 3.6 from Experimental
20100626 00:00:57< Gambit> So when I said everything I excluded hardware issues.
20100626 00:01:02< Aethaeryn> I'm sorry, HDD failure is a real problem I had on my last WinXP machine.
20100626 00:01:06< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: are you reading me anymore?
20100626 00:01:08< Gambit> There's a latin economics phrase for this...
20100626 00:01:17< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: I am reading a list of various repository names...
20100626 00:01:21< Aethaeryn> Do I need to reply?
20100626 00:01:28< Gambit> ceteris paribus?
20100626 00:01:31< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: yes.
20100626 00:01:33< Aethaeryn> k
20100626 00:01:38< Aethaeryn> Well, I already have 3.6
20100626 00:01:42< shadowmaster> because I'm telling you that you can also get the latest crap from Debian
20100626 00:01:51< Aethaeryn> Yes, but it's not out-of-the-box
20100626 00:01:57< shadowmaster> if you want to run the risk
20100626 00:01:58< Aethaeryn> And far less stable to mix packages like that
20100626 00:02:03< Aethaeryn> FAR less stable to mix packages between repos
20100626 00:02:13< Aethaeryn> Than to just have an OS that has Firefox 3.6 out of the box.
20100626 00:02:14< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: it can be very stable if you backport them
20100626 00:02:30< shadowmaster> the worst that can happen if that i.e. you hit a buggy Firefox version
20100626 00:02:33< Aethaeryn> key qualifier is "can"
20100626 00:02:35< shadowmaster> like 3.0.x always was
20100626 00:02:50< shadowmaster> on amd64.
20100626 00:02:53< Aethaeryn> Personally, Firefox 4 can't come soon enough.
20100626 00:03:15< Aethaeryn> Firefox's interface is old at this point.
20100626 00:03:31< Aethaeryn> Similar to Firefox 2 I think
20100626 00:03:32< shadowmaster> I can tell you that Testing is currently very stable for regular users.
20100626 00:03:38< shadowmaster> on amd64.
20100626 00:03:49< shadowmaster> I can tell you that Testing has never broken for me.
20100626 00:03:57< shadowmaster> nor in Lenny's cycle, nor in Squeeze's
20100626 00:04:25< Aethaeryn> anyway, besides Personas, which worked fine as an extension before 3.6...
20100626 00:04:33< shadowmaster> I can also tell you that I successfully backported the GIMP 2.6 to Stable (Lenny) despite Stable shipped with 2.4
20100626 00:04:41< Aethaeryn> Firefox looks aged compared to every other major browser, which has had significant GUI changes.
20100626 00:04:45< shadowmaster> I also successfully backported printer drivers.
20100626 00:04:48< Aethaeryn> Which is unfortunate because I like Firefox's engine better
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20100626 00:05:08< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: 64-bit is stable now? :o
20100626 00:05:20< shadowmaster> when it wasn't¡
20100626 00:05:23< shadowmaster> ?
20100626 00:05:26< Espreon> Gambit: Take your Latin elsewhere; only weaklings rely on Latin phrases when speaking English.
20100626 00:05:39< Aethaeryn> eh, 64-bit was still unstable in parts when I set up this laptop, which is still 32 bit I think.
20100626 00:05:46< Aethaeryn> so 2 summers ago?
20100626 00:05:51< Espreon> AI0867: Invoke the power of Elder Futhark!
20100626 00:05:51< Aethaeryn> '08?
20100626 00:06:13< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: I have a Pentium 4 from 2007 that can run 64-bit software
20100626 00:06:13< shadowmaster> not unstable at all
20100626 00:06:46< shadowmaster> I think you can blame your distribution.
20100626 00:07:23< shadowmaster> also, Debian Lenny has been running on my other laptop for over 500 days.
20100626 00:07:26< shadowmaster> amd64.
20100626 00:07:43< shadowmaster> not a single reboot, only hibernation cycles.
20100626 00:07:45< shadowmaster> is that unstable to you?
20100626 00:08:04< shadowmaster> (that laptop is from 2007, also, the Pentium 4 above is actually from 2006)
20100626 00:08:05< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: it's not the hardware that is unstable.
20100626 00:08:16< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: I'm talking about software.
20100626 00:08:24< Aethaeryn> it was 64-bit-in-2008 that had some issues.
20100626 00:08:30< Aethaeryn> Especially flash, but hey, who uses flash, right?
20100626 00:08:47< shadowmaster> so your distribution gave you crappy software.
20100626 00:08:50< shadowmaster> Q.E.D.
20100626 00:09:10< shadowmaster> never had an issue with Flash here, and yes, I'm using the proprietary plugin
20100626 00:09:34< shadowmaster> Debian also has an installer for it.
20100626 00:10:14< shadowmaster> notably, I switched to Debian (testing) in 2008, from openSUSE 10.0
20100626 00:10:16< shadowmaster> er, 10.3
20100626 00:10:17< Aethaeryn> eh
20100626 00:10:22< shadowmaster> now openSUSE 10.3 was shit :(
20100626 00:10:26< Aethaeryn> Fedora doesn't have an installer for flash because it's proprietary
20100626 00:10:28< Aethaeryn> :-P
20100626 00:10:38< Aethaeryn> Adobe provides its own repository.
20100626 00:10:40< shadowmaster> so Fedora sucks.
20100626 00:10:43< Aethaeryn> no
20100626 00:10:44< shadowmaster> nice.
20100626 00:10:48< shadowmaster> YES
20100626 00:10:50< Aethaeryn> Fedora is actually more philosophically pure than Debian.
20100626 00:10:54< Aethaeryn> Debian might rebrand Firefox.
20100626 00:11:02< Aethaeryn> But it still makes it easier to semi-officially do proprietary stuff
20100626 00:11:05< shadowmaster> but you still get crappy software.
20100626 00:11:09 * Espreon would rather have something work than not having it work at all
20100626 00:11:12< shadowmaster> also, don't talk about the Firefox rebranding because you are missing most of the story.
20100626 00:11:19< Aethaeryn> I am missing most of the story.
20100626 00:11:29< shadowmaster> they were actually threatened by Mozilla.
20100626 00:11:29< Aethaeryn> But I still think "Iceweasel" is a really stupid name.
20100626 00:11:34< Aethaeryn> much stupider than "Firefox"
20100626 00:11:37< Elvish_Pillager> I think it's cute
20100626 00:12:08< Aethaeryn> why not something like "Icecat"?
20100626 00:12:12< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat
20100626 00:12:18< Elvish_Pillager> Because "Iceweasel" sounds cuter
20100626 00:12:27< Aethaeryn> Nah
20100626 00:12:29< Aethaeryn> Look at that logo!
20100626 00:12:31< shadowmaster> the problem basically reduced itself to the following
20100626 00:12:48< Elvish_Pillager> and isn't "IceCat" the name of a hockey team or something?
20100626 00:12:50< shadowmaster> Mozilla doesn't want to support old software, Debian does
20100626 00:13:03< shadowmaster> Mozilla doesn't want unauthorized patching of its products
20100626 00:13:15< Aethaeryn> yeah, I heard about the patching bit.
20100626 00:13:25< shadowmaster> Mozilla doesn't wat to review patches for old products
20100626 00:13:26< Aethaeryn> Mozilla can act like jerks where they are very strict on their trademarks.
20100626 00:13:40< shadowmaster> Mozilla therefore considers Debian's patching a trademark infringement
20100626 00:13:56< Aethaeryn> But seriously...
20100626 00:13:58< shadowmaster> so Mozilla sends a minion to the Debian bugtracker to "suggest" that they stop using their trademarks
20100626 00:14:14< Aethaeryn> how can you compete with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Icecat.png
20100626 00:14:14< shadowmaster> and then idiots like Jetrel and you complain about the rebranding
20100626 00:14:42< Aethaeryn> I'm sorry, my main issue is how stupid "weasel" sounds compared to "fox"
20100626 00:14:58< Aethaeryn> or even "cat"
20100626 00:15:01< shadowmaster> you are on the same boat as those who don't like Ubuntu because of their default color scheme?
20100626 00:15:06< shadowmaster> nice
20100626 00:15:08< Aethaeryn> I also don't like Mozilla's own "seamonkey"
20100626 00:15:09< Elvish_Pillager> you're just trying to weasel your way out of acknowledging its obvious superiority. You can't outfox me.
20100626 00:15:44< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: Nah, I don't like it because of security and repository issues, and because it modifies GNOME and several other packages too much from upstream.
20100626 00:15:55< Aethaeryn> Which thus makes an Ubuntu experience totally separate from most of Linux.
20100626 00:15:59< shadowmaster> the worst part here is that one of Mozilla's authorities had authorized Debian's usage of the trademarks before.
20100626 00:16:18< shadowmaster> they later pretended that Didn't Happen.
20100626 00:16:36< shadowmaster> that's just evil.
20100626 00:16:44< Aethaeryn> Just replace "yum" with "apt-get" and I can get along fine in Debian, mostly. But Ubuntu, which *should* be similar to Debian is totally alien to me.
20100626 00:17:10< shadowmaster> we aren't discussing Ubuntu here.
20100626 00:17:12< Aethaeryn> Not to mention removing root/su and forcing you to do sudo is the Windowsization of Linux... Wow, very secure right there.
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20100626 00:56:05< Espreon> shadowmaster: Hablo castellano malo, ¿sí? ;)
20100626 00:59:09< Elvish_Pillager> Is [modify_side] controller= compatible with networked multiplayer?
20100626 01:01:28< zookeeper> probably not
20100626 01:01:30< zookeeper> but maybe
20100626 01:02:32< zookeeper> heck, i don't really have any idea.
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20100626 01:36:15< Espreon> OK, once I emerge all of this crap, I'll recompile glibc, and update and recompile the following: libdrm, mesa; radeon.
20100626 01:36:20< Espreon> Then... reboot!
20100626 01:36:33 * Espreon updated his Linux headers... heh...
20100626 01:38:16< shadowmaster> the Debian documentation says that I shouldn't ever bother with that crap unless I am really installing new functionality exposed via system calls
20100626 01:38:57< Espreon> Meh, I updated my Linux headers before without any problems.
20100626 01:46:52 * Espreon wishes that Polarina would respond to his PM.
20100626 01:48:14< shadowmaster> forum PM?
20100626 01:48:25< shadowmaster> or on IRC?
20100626 01:48:44< Espreon> Forum PM.
20100626 01:49:02< shadowmaster> he's actually on IRC too
20100626 01:49:11< Espreon> What's his new nickname?
20100626 01:49:21< shadowmaster> not in the Wesnoth channels for some reason, but on freenode nonetheless
20100626 01:49:25< shadowmaster> Polarina
20100626 01:49:33< Espreon> No, I'm pretty sure that he changed it.
20100626 01:49:35< shadowmaster> /whois Polarina
20100626 01:50:01< shadowmaster> convinced already?
20100626 01:50:05< Espreon> Yeah...
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20100626 01:50:16< Espreon> shadowmaster: Thanks.
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20100626 06:48:22< Espreon> God damn it, I can't find my copy of "Ōkami"...
20100626 07:09:44< Espreon> Tch, it was in a fold of carpet...
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20100626 09:21:34< Espreon> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=437910#p437910 ... Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...
20100626 09:22:37 * Espreon comes up with a plot to get Eleazar to create bamboo forest terrain
20100626 09:23:43 * Espreon 's going to use that in the Earth Palace's scenario.
20100626 09:40:21< Espreon> shadowmaster: http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/843/overlord.png ... BEHOLD!
20100626 09:45:59< shadowmaster> ...what?
20100626 09:46:29< shadowmaster> what is that?
20100626 09:47:00< Espreon> Uh, the Overlord redo WIP.
20100626 09:47:10< shadowmaster> from who?
20100626 09:47:17< Espreon> Zerovirus, who else?
20100626 09:47:21< shadowmaster> and why does it need to be redone?
20100626 09:47:39< shadowmaster> it should be killed instaed
20100626 09:47:53< Espreon> But Zerovirus likes it...
20100626 09:48:11< shadowmaster> okay
20100626 09:48:41< Espreon> ... and we're killing the horse!
20100626 09:48:56< shadowmaster> goos
20100626 09:48:59< shadowmaster> good
20100626 09:49:07< Espreon> I know, right‽
20100626 09:49:43< shadowmaster> i guess
20100626 09:52:35< Espreon> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=437815#p437815 ... What are they talking about? It never happened!®
20100626 09:53:39< Espreon> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=437762#p437762 ... WHY‽
20100626 09:53:42< shadowmaster> it's It Didn't Happen™.
20100626 09:53:53< Espreon> I don't care about your accursed tropes.
20100626 09:54:15< Espreon> ... except for the trope for which I should write an article.
20100626 09:54:21< shadowmaster> but I do
20100626 09:54:25< shadowmaster> and I'm the boss here
20100626 09:55:32< shadowmaster> also, the ™ part is of my ow
20100626 09:55:57< shadowmaster> actually, there's no It Didn't Happen trope
20100626 09:56:12< Espreon> shadowmaster: Why do *I* have to write an article for The Black Hand™?
20100626 09:56:50< shadowmaster> this may have given me the basic idea though: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisContinuity
20100626 09:57:02< Espreon> ... not funny...
20100626 09:57:19< shadowmaster> hey, I had to fix an entry in the BattleForWesnoth page
20100626 09:58:04< Espreon> shadowmaster: Do you honestly think that The Black Hand™ would survive?
20100626 09:58:28< shadowmaster> most likely
20100626 09:58:47< shadowmaster> but I'm not good at starting articles at wikis so you are on your own there
20100626 09:58:48< Espreon> Well, then... *MAYBE* I'll write it... *SOMEDAY*.
20100626 09:59:16< shadowmaster> we got an entry for Berserk Button
20100626 09:59:23< Espreon> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
20100626 09:59:42< shadowmaster> but only on the BfW article
20100626 09:59:54< shadowmaster> "Try suggesting that the game be less random. Be sure to bring your flame-retardant asbesthos suit!"
20100626 10:00:05< shadowmaster> that's so meta
20100626 10:00:37< shadowmaster> at some point the BfW page will need to be split according to tropes that apply to the game itself, and tropes that apply to the community
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20100626 19:41:26< Gambit> zookeeper: Is this valid? http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/QWR1ffFB
20100626 19:42:04< zookeeper> no
20100626 19:43:26< Gambit> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/SEkeYJSh ?
20100626 19:44:54< zookeeper> yes
20100626 19:45:57< Gambit> Thank you.
20100626 19:54:29< Gambit> Is there any way to disable the minimap?
20100626 19:54:48< Gambit> Some terrains are empty blackness on it.
20100626 19:55:07< Gambit> But I can't use those all over the map.
20100626 19:55:14< Gambit> And they're unwalkable
20100626 19:56:51< zookeeper> make a theme which doesn't have it
20100626 19:58:28< Gambit> Can I make sure they're using that theme though?
20100626 19:58:43< zookeeper> [scenario] theme=mythemeid
20100626 19:58:53< Gambit> zookeeper: awesome. Thanks.
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20100626 19:59:09< zookeeper> but yeah, i guess one can override it. maybe. not sure. but i'm sure pretty much no one uses that feature anyway.
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20100626 20:25:53< timotei> Espreon: how you doing?:)
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20100626 22:58:59< shadowmaster> zookeeper: I use that feature
20100626 22:59:28< shadowmaster> only in one scenario though.
20100626 23:00:05< zookeeper> shadowmaster, i mean the feature of selecting the theme in the preferences. or is it even there anymore?
20100626 23:00:24< shadowmaster> ah, that one. It's probably still there.
20100626 23:01:13< shadowmaster> it's probably not useful anymore since the alternate mainline themes are broken/have reduced functionality/are unmaintained
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 27 00:00:32 2010