--- Log opened Sun Jun 27 00:00:32 2010
20100627 00:20:38-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20100627 00:22:32< Elvish_Pillager> so, add-on dependencies - is it a good/convenient system? e.g. does it automatically download dependencies for you?
20100627 00:25:25< shadowmaster> why don't you try it and see?
20100627 00:26:00< Elvish_Pillager> or can someone give an example of an existing add-on with dependenc(ies)?
20100627 00:26:10< shadowmaster> also, any complaints about it should be redirected to /dev/null until I finish the addon management refactoring in SVN trunk
20100627 00:26:39< shadowmaster> try \Device\Null if you are on Windows.
20100627 00:43:38-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20100627 00:46:00< Elvish_Pillager> I have just tried it out for myself. It isn't what I would consider a "good/convenient system".
20100627 00:47:04< Elvish_Pillager> (It doesn't automatically do anything, it just informs you generically when you aren't meeting a dependency.)
20100627 00:47:52< Elvish_Pillager> So it's decent for when you have, e.g., a campaign that relies on an era,
20100627 00:49:11< Elvish_Pillager> , but it's nearly useless if you want to use a set of generalized macros in your own add-ons (because not having the add-ons will get the user annoying error messages...)
20100627 00:50:31< Elvish_Pillager> You ought to be able to depend on the user having the dependencies, srsly.
20100627 00:50:45< Elvish_Pillager> (and also: not force them to do extra work.)
20100627 00:52:32< shadowmaster> complaints redirected to /dev/null, thanks
20100627 00:53:13< shadowmaster> they are also a blatant case of not doing the research, since trunk already offers users to install the dependencies in a neat list, courtesy of FAAB
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20100627 01:12:28< Elvish_Pillager> hello Aethaeryn
20100627 01:19:51< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: You're planning on releasing Wesalwyn with my add-on marked as a dependency. You should not do this. Instead, you should copy my macros files into your add-on and release it stand-alone.
20100627 01:19:59< Elvish_Pillager> I will modify my files to make this more convenient if necessary.
20100627 01:21:19< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: ?
20100627 01:21:26< Aethaeryn> Well, then.
20100627 01:21:31< Aethaeryn> I might as well just merge it to Aethaeryn's Maps.
20100627 01:21:41< Aethaeryn> It was only going on its own because of dependency.
20100627 01:21:49< Elvish_Pillager> okay
20100627 01:21:56< Aethaeryn> Aethaeryn's Maps = the dumping ground of all the stuff I can get away with.
20100627 01:22:07< Aethaeryn> I ought to publish a new version anyway.
20100627 01:22:10< Elvish_Pillager> I say this because I found out today how the dependency system works.
20100627 01:22:16< Elvish_Pillager> It would be horrible.
20100627 01:22:19< Aethaeryn> This full-time-job called "really intense summer math class" is taking all my time.
20100627 01:22:30< Aethaeryn> I trust ya
20100627 01:23:04< Elvish_Pillager> oh, there's a bit of a problem... macros defined twice
20100627 01:23:13< Elvish_Pillager> hmm.
20100627 01:23:15< Aethaeryn> Change the name?
20100627 01:23:22< Aethaeryn> I can just do what I do everywhere...
20100627 01:23:26< Elvish_Pillager> You'd have to change the names of all the macros in all my files.
20100627 01:23:27< Aethaeryn> and tag an "aeth" in front of a macro I stole
20100627 01:23:30< Aethaeryn> so it doesn't break it
20100627 01:23:34< Elvish_Pillager> and there are a lot of macros.
20100627 01:23:40< Aethaeryn> just like I put a TE_ in front of all IDs.
20100627 01:24:05< Elvish_Pillager> I suppose you could find-and-replace '#define ' with '#define AETH_' and '{' with '{AETH_' ?
20100627 01:24:42< Elvish_Pillager> There's GOT to be a better way to do this...
20100627 01:24:57< Aethaeryn> perhaps.
20100627 01:25:05< Aethaeryn> why does the dependency system break?
20100627 01:25:09< Elvish_Pillager> oh...
20100627 01:25:09< Aethaeryn> on my tests it worked ok
20100627 01:25:16< Aethaeryn> with my map just calling stuff with your add-on called separately
20100627 01:25:19< Aethaeryn> or w/e
20100627 01:25:21< Elvish_Pillager> it doesn't require anything, it just informs the user if they don't have a dependency
20100627 01:25:26< Elvish_Pillager> and it has no consideration for version differences
20100627 01:25:43< Aethaeryn> wait, so if you don't have the dependency, you can get the add-on anyway?
20100627 01:25:46< Elvish_Pillager> yeah.
20100627 01:26:00< Elvish_Pillager> and you have to manually get the dependency, too.
20100627 01:26:12< Elvish_Pillager> Nothing's automated and nothing's required by the game.
20100627 01:26:24< Elvish_Pillager> And there's no way to have it tell you anything but the default message.
20100627 01:28:17< Elvish_Pillager> The best solution I can think of right now is this:
20100627 01:28:40< Elvish_Pillager> I move from using lots of macros to using lots of commands-stored-as-variables
20100627 01:29:04< Elvish_Pillager> so that the files should be included in a prestart event instead of globally
20100627 01:29:40< Elvish_Pillager> then I could just have a few macros that you would have to change
20100627 01:39:46< Aethaeryn> hmmmmm
20100627 01:39:49< Aethaeryn> well
20100627 01:39:58< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: I suppose I'll just go back to Underlands RPG this weekend.
20100627 01:40:05< Elvish_Pillager> heh...
20100627 01:40:06< Aethaeryn> and when this works out...
20100627 01:40:16< Aethaeryn> I can merge Wesalwyn into my mappack, or not, and we'll see how I fix it
20100627 01:40:21< Aethaeryn> next weekend, maybe
20100627 01:40:24< Elvish_Pillager> pff...
20100627 01:40:37< Elvish_Pillager> The cleanest solution is to have you send me the map and I release it in the main add-on :/
20100627 01:41:27< Aethaeryn> no
20100627 01:41:32< Aethaeryn> Then my work on the map will flatline.
20100627 01:41:34< Aethaeryn> :-P
20100627 01:41:55< Elvish_Pillager> how?
20100627 01:42:11< Aethaeryn> You don't want to touch anything on SVN, I don't want to touch anything off of SVN.
20100627 01:42:34< Elvish_Pillager> So develop it on SVN, and just send it to me for releases.
20100627 01:42:38< Aethaeryn> Eh...
20100627 01:42:50< Elvish_Pillager> Actually, scratch that.
20100627 01:42:50< Aethaeryn> I think the second cleanest solution is just for me to put it in my mappack with all my other maps.
20100627 01:42:59< Aethaeryn> Not too much extra work.
20100627 01:43:01< Elvish_Pillager> Doesn't work once I'm not active on Wesnoth.
20100627 01:43:05< Aethaeryn> Right.
20100627 01:43:08< Elvish_Pillager> How is that not too much extra work?
20100627 01:43:16< Aethaeryn> Our activities are rather opposite though.
20100627 01:43:23< Aethaeryn> You're all active and all, and I have an intense summer class.
20100627 01:43:32< Aethaeryn> Then when this is over with, you'll probably be AFK until next summer.
20100627 01:43:37< Aethaeryn> While I'll have a laid back easy semester
20100627 01:43:38< Aethaeryn> :-P
20100627 01:43:47< Elvish_Pillager> You'd have to rename all my macros every time I updated.
20100627 01:44:01< Aethaeryn> hmmm
20100627 01:44:05< Gambit> whoa
20100627 01:44:06< Gambit> http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=42289&mode=view
20100627 01:44:06< Aethaeryn> why do the macros even need to be renamed?
20100627 01:44:09< Aethaeryn> as long as I don't change them?
20100627 01:44:13< Gambit> You can't even see the hexyness anymore.
20100627 01:44:26< Aethaeryn> Gambit: yeah, I might actually have to include some flat in my maps
20100627 01:44:28< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn, to avoid inconsistencies with differing versions.
20100627 01:44:31< Elvish_Pillager> WML MACROS ARE GLOBAL.
20100627 01:44:31< Aethaeryn> my games will go quicker :-(
20100627 01:44:40< Elvish_Pillager> ANY ADD-ON CAN SCREW UP ANY OTHER ADD-ON AT WILL.
20100627 01:44:43< Elvish_Pillager> AND DOES.
20100627 01:44:55< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: and what's difficult about a script that prefixes everything with AETH?
20100627 01:45:15< Aethaeryn> once you do it once, it'll take a few minutes to do it ever again
20100627 01:45:16< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: could work...
20100627 01:45:33< Elvish_Pillager> it does risk the possibility of something you didn't anticipate coming up
20100627 01:45:58< Elvish_Pillager> oh, you'd also need to change the file paths, but your script could do that too
20100627 01:46:02< Aethaeryn> eh
20100627 01:46:04< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100627 01:46:07< Aethaeryn> maybe
20100627 01:46:13< Aethaeryn> will have to take a look at it.
20100627 01:46:20< Aethaeryn> anyway, I'm not going to do anything relating to that this weekend.
20100627 01:46:35< Aethaeryn> I'll just work on Underlands RPG and maybe get EoT publishable.
20100627 01:47:03 * Elvish_Pillager is writing macros to allow proper variable scoping in WML
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20100627 01:52:28 * Elvish_Pillager is looking for a metaphor to describe how bad WML is. A festering wound? A wretched hive of scum and villainy?
20100627 01:53:01< shadowmaster> take it elsewhere
20100627 01:53:01< shadowmaster> I've already covered it.
20100627 01:53:55< Aethaeryn> does anyone know how much health AMLAing normally gives you?
20100627 01:54:01< Elvish_Pillager> 3
20100627 01:54:49< Elvish_Pillager> any particular reason?
20100627 02:00:05< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: working out a system of promotion in my RPG
20100627 02:00:29< Aethaeryn> with 3 HP on a typical AMLA, 4 points for promotion and HP priced at 1 point for 1 HP sounds fair.
20100627 02:00:39< Aethaeryn> since there's a lot better things you can get other than health.
20100627 02:00:52< Aethaeryn> (intelligence, movement, damage, healing)
20100627 02:00:58< Gambit> WML is an amazing language.
20100627 02:01:01< Gambit> !
20100627 02:01:16< Gambit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Markup_Language
20100627 02:01:22< Elvish_Pillager> Ha ha ha.
20100627 02:01:29< Gambit> http://www.w3schools.com/wap/wml_reference.asp
20100627 02:01:34< Aethaeryn> Gambit: the mobile web is stupid.
20100627 02:01:38< Aethaeryn> fullstop.
20100627 02:01:42< Aethaeryn> Which sounds a lot cooler than period.
20100627 02:01:46< Elvish_Pillager> Wesnoth Markup Language is amazing, too. It constantly amazes me with how many things it does wrong.
20100627 02:04:10< Gambit> [message]speaker=narrator message="Hello world"[/message] is SOOOOOOOOOO much more elegant than document.write("Hello world") or print("Hello world)"; or echo "Hello World"; or any of those.
20100627 02:04:19< Gambit> Except for of course this one great language I know where you just write
20100627 02:04:23< Gambit> Hello world
20100627 02:04:53< Elvish_Pillager> yeah... nothing like using a tag structure for procedural programming, amirite?
20100627 02:05:02< Gambit> or cout << "Hello world"; or whatever that one was
20100627 02:05:13< Gambit> or me.text="hello world"
20100627 02:05:38< Gambit> console.write="hello world";
20100627 02:06:04< Elvish_Pillager> BOOYAH
20100627 02:06:11< Elvish_Pillager> I have just implemented variable scoping in WML
20100627 02:06:12< Gambit> but seriously I'm really happy for me and I'ma let me finish but CFML is the best language of all time
20100627 02:06:14< Gambit> OF ALL TIME
20100627 02:06:17< Elvish_Pillager> my code is only 35 lines long
20100627 02:06:19< Gambit> You just write
20100627 02:06:21< Gambit> hello world
20100627 02:06:23< Gambit> and BOOM
20100627 02:06:25< Gambit> It's there.
20100627 02:06:37< Aethaeryn> Gambit: You know another language where I can do that?
20100627 02:06:49< Gambit> What? Just write what you wanna print?
20100627 02:06:52< Aethaeryn> Plain text.
20100627 02:06:53< Aethaeryn> watch this:
20100627 02:06:53< Gambit> English :D
20100627 02:06:56< Gambit> lol
20100627 02:06:56< Aethaeryn> hello world
20100627 02:07:01< Aethaeryn> boom, right there.
20100627 02:07:02< Gambit> Aethaeryn: lies
20100627 02:07:03< Gambit> no
20100627 02:07:05< Gambit> what you just said was
20100627 02:07:12< Aethaeryn> nah
20100627 02:07:16< Aethaeryn> depends on the client's rendering.
20100627 02:07:20< Gambit> PRIVMSG #wesnoth-umc-dev :hello world\n
20100627 02:07:23< Aethaeryn> but the only thing I actually said was "hello world"
20100627 02:07:27< Aethaeryn> eh
20100627 02:07:34< Elvish_Pillager> Aeth's right, Gambit
20100627 02:07:42< Elvish_Pillager> The client is a compiler
20100627 02:08:02< Aethaeryn> right...
20100627 02:08:02< Elvish_Pillager> You don't say that the machine language is the code, so you don't say the IRC protocol is the code either
20100627 02:08:03< Gambit> fair enough I guess if we want to get really picky it's all ones and zeros
20100627 02:08:14< Elvish_Pillager> No it's not
20100627 02:08:22< Aethaeryn> anyway
20100627 02:08:25< Aethaeryn> 20:07:51 < Gambit> You just write
20100627 02:08:29< Aethaeryn> that was the qualification.
20100627 02:08:33< Aethaeryn> I don't care what my client adds to it 
20100627 02:08:33< Elvish_Pillager> It's all the temporary electrical (or mechanical, depending) state of your computer's internals
20100627 02:08:38< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: It's all just he electrical impulses sent to our fingers.
20100627 02:08:40< Aethaeryn> *I* just wrote "hello world"
20100627 02:08:42< Aethaeryn> and it was there
20100627 02:08:48< Aethaeryn> I wrote nothing more nor nothing less
20100627 02:08:54< Elvish_Pillager> Nonsense
20100627 02:08:58< Elvish_Pillager> you also wrote \r
20100627 02:08:59< Aethaeryn> I didn't need to say "/msg #wesnoth-umc-dev hello world"
20100627 02:09:07< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: lies.
20100627 02:09:10< Aethaeryn> I could have clicked.
20100627 02:09:12< Elvish_Pillager> lol.
20100627 02:10:12< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: it's all an arrangement of atoms
20100627 02:10:30< Gambit> Well no I guess we have to go smaller
20100627 02:10:32< Elvish_Pillager> isn't that what I said?
20100627 02:10:34< Gambit> electrons matter here
20100627 02:10:48< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: IT'S ALL PHILOTIC CONNECTIONS!
20100627 02:11:03< Elvish_Pillager> Gambit: IT'S ALL BULLSHIT!
20100627 02:11:27< Gambit> philotes
20100627 02:12:10< Elvish_Pillager> Hoomph. I don't suppose WML can define symbols that #ifdef can read yet?
20100627 02:12:36< Elvish_Pillager> No header guards for us poor WML writers :(
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20100627 02:56:59< Elvish_Pillager> booyah x2
20100627 02:57:16< Elvish_Pillager> I have implemented functions in WML
20100627 02:57:29< Elvish_Pillager> with a pretty nice interface, that is
20100627 02:57:47< shadowmaster> you know, Lua allows to define WML tags too.
20100627 02:58:19< shadowmaster> some core WML tags are already defined with Lua code.
20100627 03:03:17< Elvish_Pillager> haven't tested it though :P I should build a test case next
20100627 03:03:35< shadowmaster> EP is ignoring me?
20100627 03:05:09< shadowmaster> I guess I'll have to get him out of this channel then.
20100627 03:05:33< shadowmaster> or quiet him at the very least.
20100627 03:11:35< shadowmaster> damn, my wireless mouse's batteries are depleted
20100627 03:11:43< shadowmaster> and I can't find the charger
20100627 03:15:26< Elvish_Pillager> Odd, my preferences got erased somehow. Luckily, I was able to recover them.
20100627 03:16:03< shadowmaster> Elvish_Pillager: hi
20100627 03:17:28< shadowmaster> how have you been the last 14 minutes?
20100627 03:27:25< shadowmaster> I guessed as much.
20100627 03:29:53< Gambit> why time is it in europy places right now?
20100627 03:30:07< shadowmaster> what, europe?
20100627 03:30:12< shadowmaster> european?
20100627 03:30:18< shadowmaster> depends on the country
20100627 03:30:30< Gambit> Is it tomorow yet?
20100627 03:31:13< shadowmaster> what country?
20100627 03:31:42< shadowmaster> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
20100627 03:32:24< Aethaeryn> Gambit: just type "time gmt" into google
20100627 03:32:30< Aethaeryn> you don't even need to hit enter thanks to suggest
20100627 03:33:12< Gambit> hmm it is tomorow
20100627 03:33:15< Aethaeryn> or "time new york"
20100627 03:33:20< Aethaeryn> it's really fun actually
20100627 03:33:28< Gambit> which means doctor who aired... 5 hours ago
20100627 03:33:33< Aethaeryn> it's 9:33 pm in santiago chile
20100627 03:33:35< Aethaeryn> Google tells me
20100627 03:36:00< Elvish_Pillager> Yeah, but it's 21:33 here. :p
20100627 03:36:46< shadowmaster> hi Elvish_Pillager 
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20100627 03:38:48<@umcreg> hi Elvish_Pillager
20100627 03:38:56< Elvish_Pillager> hi?
20100627 03:39:09< shadowmaster> who are you replying to?
20100627 03:39:26< Elvish_Pillager> YES
20100627 03:39:30< Elvish_Pillager> MY FUNCTIONS AND SCOPES WORK
20100627 03:39:42< shadowmaster> okay, he isn't replying to me
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20100627 03:41:03< Elvish_Pillager> eh?
20100627 03:44:53< Elvish_Pillager> it even works perfectly with recursive functions
20100627 03:44:59< Elvish_Pillager> I say once again: BOOYAH
20100627 03:49:33< Elvish_Pillager> now if only I could make it more convenient to use trivially modified variables (e.g. right now it takes about three lines to refer to "$foo| minus one")...
20100627 03:54:13< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: erm...
20100627 03:54:17< Elvish_Pillager> yes?
20100627 03:54:24< Gambit> didn't we get $($foo-1)
20100627 03:54:33< Elvish_Pillager> when?!?
20100627 03:54:34< Gambit> that came with the FAI update
20100627 03:54:36-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100627 03:54:48< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: last summer
20100627 03:54:50< Elvish_Pillager> does the wiki document it?
20100627 03:54:53< Gambit> nope
20100627 03:54:58< Elvish_Pillager> >:(
20100627 03:55:11< Elvish_Pillager> Undocumented features are useless!!!
20100627 03:55:13< Gambit> I saw it once on the forums, and one of the devs congratulated the person for figuring it out
20100627 03:55:37< Elvish_Pillager> The devs congratulated someone for their own obtuseness?
20100627 03:55:41< Gambit> I tried using it the other day though and couldn't get it to work
20100627 03:55:47< Elvish_Pillager> Ha ha
20100627 03:55:50< Elvish_Pillager> This is a really useful feature
20100627 03:56:05< Gambit> and couldn't find anywhere to look up the syntax for that particular use
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20100627 03:56:29< Elvish_Pillager> also... using parentheses, that's not very convenient when it'll be inside a macro argument
20100627 03:56:30< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: we're supposed to infer it from this mess here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/FormulaAI
20100627 03:56:37< Elvish_Pillager> you'd have to use quotes, but it'd still be, um
20100627 03:56:42< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: That might be the reason I didn't get it to work.
20100627 03:57:07< Elvish_Pillager> there isn't even a dollar sign on that page...
20100627 03:57:21< Gambit> well because that page discusses using it for AI
20100627 03:57:27< Gambit> which assumes formulas
20100627 03:57:31< Elvish_Pillager> searching the wiki now...
20100627 03:57:37< Gambit> in regular things like messages or [variable] tags you need the dollar sign
20100627 03:57:42< Gambit> (afaik)
20100627 03:59:03< Elvish_Pillager> ah, it's mentioned in http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SyntaxWML
20100627 03:59:11< Elvish_Pillager> so you were wrong; it is indeed documented on the wiki
20100627 03:59:47< Elvish_Pillager> although perhaps not in the most understandable way
20100627 04:00:07< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: here's a link http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=410796#p410796
20100627 04:00:09< Gambit> oh too late
20100627 04:00:25< Elvish_Pillager> too late?
20100627 04:00:33< Gambit> you found it already I mean
20100627 04:00:40< Gambit> and apparenty a much betterp lace too
20100627 04:00:42< Gambit> *place
20100627 04:00:43< Elvish_Pillager> ah
20100627 04:00:57< Elvish_Pillager> lemme see if I can make that work with my current code...
20100627 04:02:48< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26905&p=384799&hilit=congratulations#p384799 :P
20100627 04:03:18< Elvish_Pillager> oh, that's a completely different congratulations
20100627 04:03:26< Elvish_Pillager> also, Sapient is not all the devs :p
20100627 04:03:36< Gambit> did I say all of?
20100627 04:03:41< Gambit> I meant one of...
20100627 04:03:50< Gambit> I said one of
20100627 04:03:55< Elvish_Pillager> you said "the devs", implying someone who spoke for them in general I guess
20100627 04:04:06< Elvish_Pillager> oh, I misread
20100627 04:04:35< Gambit> anywho yeah... fun feature is fun
20100627 04:04:35< Elvish_Pillager> that was pretty clearly documented on the wiki and I think the congratulations are a bit silly :P
20100627 04:04:51< Elvish_Pillager> although, not everything that should be possible with it is actually possible :/
20100627 04:04:51 * Gambit does not believe they were documented at that time
20100627 04:05:04< Gambit> but he doesn't feel like logging into the wiki to check
20100627 04:05:14< Elvish_Pillager> But meanwhile: I did indeed get it working with my current code!
20100627 04:05:24< Elvish_Pillager> Even though that involved macro stuff and I was worried about the parentheses.
20100627 04:05:34< Elvish_Pillager> This is all super.
20100627 04:05:42< Elvish_Pillager> Functions, scoping, and arithmetic.
20100627 04:05:50< Elvish_Pillager> WML just got a lot better.
20100627 04:06:17< Elvish_Pillager> I just need to work out these damn macro namespace issues.
20100627 04:06:32< Gambit> scoping?
20100627 04:06:38< Gambit> Couldn't that be done before though
20100627 04:06:47< Gambit> unless I misunderstand
20100627 04:06:52< Elvish_Pillager> With what?
20100627 04:07:01< Elvish_Pillager> I just coded macros to allow functions and variable scoping
20100627 04:07:01< Gambit> You could just assign foo.bar a value
20100627 04:07:12< Elvish_Pillager> like in C
20100627 04:07:28 * Gambit doesn't know C
20100627 04:07:37< Elvish_Pillager> where you can have a scope that doesn't interfere with any variables outside the scope
20100627 04:07:42-!- Blueblaze [~nick@99.188.135.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100627 04:08:13< Gambit> Nope I still don't understand.
20100627 04:08:17< Elvish_Pillager> The easiest way to explain is with recursive functions
20100627 04:08:23< Elvish_Pillager> do you know what a recursive function is?
20100627 04:08:25< Gambit> and functions?
20100627 04:08:29< Elvish_Pillager> oh gosh
20100627 04:08:30< Gambit> How on earth did you make that happen?
20100627 04:08:38< Elvish_Pillager> using [insert_tag]
20100627 04:08:40< Elvish_Pillager> it is magical
20100627 04:08:44 * Gambit knows what functions and recursive functions are :@
20100627 04:09:10<+shikadibot> Elvish_Pillager: will you share the code with us?
20100627 04:09:15< Gambit> but he just thought scopes were groups of variables
20100627 04:09:15< Elvish_Pillager> I will
20100627 04:09:19< Elvish_Pillager> Once I work out some of the other issues
20100627 04:09:21< Gambit> [insert_tag] is indeed magical
20100627 04:09:30< Gambit> if a bit complicated to grasp
20100627 04:09:36< Elvish_Pillager> Gambit: Right... but being able to refer to the right variable in the right place
20100627 04:09:43< Gambit> at least until you figure out [set_variables]
20100627 04:10:45< Elvish_Pillager> like, in your recursive function, if you have a variable named "i", you want it to refer to the value of "i" at the current level of recursion - not the i from the version calling you, not the i from the version you call
20100627 04:11:04< Gambit> ah
20100627 04:11:40< Elvish_Pillager> So - at least the way C does it - basically you designate a "scope", and variables that you declare in the scope are only defined within the scope
20100627 04:11:51< Elvish_Pillager> and revert to their earlier values (or non-values) after the scope ends.
20100627 04:12:32< Elvish_Pillager> so with my macros, you write {SCOPE ( {DECLARE_SCOPED_VAR whatever} [a lot of lines and commands and stuff] )}
20100627 04:12:45< Elvish_Pillager> and whenever you want to refer to the variable, you write {SCOPED_VAR whatever}
20100627 04:12:58 * Gambit has never needed recursion in wml.
20100627 04:13:20< Elvish_Pillager> it's kind of verbose. I think I'll make convenience macros like "{SET_SCOPED_VAR variable value}" that wraps {VARIABLE {SCOPED_VAR variable} value}
20100627 04:13:53< Elvish_Pillager> bear in mind that I do super-complicated things with WML
20100627 04:14:33< Gambit> hahaha
20100627 04:14:49< Elvish_Pillager> my current annoyance is that I can't name one of my macros CALL_FUNCTION because Wesnoth defines a really shoddy macro by that name
20100627 04:14:53< shadowmaster> people
20100627 04:15:04< shadowmaster> WML is not a programming language
20100627 04:15:06< shadowmaster> how many times do I have to rant about this
20100627 04:15:16< Elvish_Pillager> My function calling macro lets you specify named arguments, like in C
20100627 04:15:25< shadowmaster> get it into your bloody heads already
20100627 04:15:26< shadowmaster> WML is not a programming language
20100627 04:15:39< shadowmaster> I'll repeat it once more
20100627 04:15:45< shadowmaster> WML is not a programming language
20100627 04:15:56< Elvish_Pillager> My only regret is that the add-on dependency system is really crappy, so I can't just release this as a convenient add-on for people to use as a dependency.
20100627 04:16:03< shadowmaster> there, that should be enough according to the rule of three
20100627 04:16:07< Elvish_Pillager> (Usually myself, but people in general too.)
20100627 04:16:09< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: you could sort of define your own functions already with macros
20100627 04:16:12< shadowmaster> again with the dependency system BS
20100627 04:16:16< Gambit> just pass the name of the return variable in an argument
20100627 04:16:20< shadowmaster> the worst part is that he's actually ignoring my comment regarding its improvements in trunk
20100627 04:16:39< Elvish_Pillager> oh, I haven't even implemented return values...
20100627 04:16:48< Gambit> Then why is it a function?
20100627 04:16:56< Elvish_Pillager> for a variety of reasons
20100627 04:17:25 * Gambit wikipedias functions in programming
20100627 04:17:27< Elvish_Pillager> so that I don't waste post-preprocessed space with many-times-expanded macros
20100627 04:17:37< shadowmaster> wikipedia is not a verb
20100627 04:17:42< Elvish_Pillager> so that I can use named arguments in some ways that macros can't
20100627 04:17:44< shadowmaster> you
20100627 04:17:44< Elvish_Pillager> so that I can recur
20100627 04:17:47< shadowmaster> FOOL!
20100627 04:17:48< Gambit> shadowmaster: in english any noun can be a verb
20100627 04:17:56< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_(mathematics)
20100627 04:18:01< Elvish_Pillager> heh heh
20100627 04:18:13< Elvish_Pillager> computer programming and mathematics use that word in much different senses...
20100627 04:18:21< Gambit> I may not know any real programming languages, but I know functions return values!
20100627 04:18:26< Elvish_Pillager> Heh.
20100627 04:18:28< Gambit> You're making methods or something.
20100627 04:18:32< shadowmaster> Gambit: not necessarily
20100627 04:18:47< Gambit> shadowmaster: I'm sure my basic computer logic class knows more than you.
20100627 04:18:55< Gambit> (sarcasm! I hated that class)
20100627 04:18:55< shadowmaster> C methods a.k.a. functions may not return a value if you want
20100627 04:18:58< Elvish_Pillager> I guess functional programming uses it in the mathematical sense
20100627 04:19:26-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [+o shadowmaster] by ChanServ
20100627 04:19:39< Elvish_Pillager> C has functions that return void, although I guess you could say those are 1-valued functions in the mathematical sense?
20100627 04:19:50-!- shadowmaster changed the topic of #wesnoth-umc-dev to: Asking for advice and ignoring it is punishable with a ban | Wesnoth-UMC-Dev Project discussion and support channel | http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net | Staff: AI0867, Espreon, shadowmaster | Project @ SF.net: http://tinyurl.com/umcdev | IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org, http://irclogs.ai0867.net
20100627 04:19:59-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [-t] by shadowmaster
20100627 04:19:59< Gambit> We used this silly program with a silly drag and drop interface
20100627 04:20:02-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [+t] by ChanServ
20100627 04:20:09-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [-o shadowmaster] by shadowmaster
20100627 04:20:09< Elvish_Pillager> in which case so are my functions - just a specific subset of functions :P
20100627 04:20:10< Gambit> they had us define functions and drop them where values would normally go
20100627 04:21:02< AI0867> 02:12 < Elvish_Pillager> No header guards for us poor WML writers :( <-- working on that
20100627 04:21:18< Elvish_Pillager> oh cool
20100627 04:22:05< Elvish_Pillager> Gambit: yeah, wouldn't it be nice? unfortunately, it's fundamentally impossible to do that in Wesnoth.
20100627 04:22:37< Elvish_Pillager> now what should the syntax for functions with return values be...
20100627 04:23:38< Elvish_Pillager> I could have you pass a variable name to the function-calling macro
20100627 04:24:25< Elvish_Pillager> but what would be the syntax inside the function? I can't make it {RETURN value} because you might want to return an array.
20100627 04:25:10< Elvish_Pillager> I suppose I could make a special scoped variable called "return_value" that would be written into the specified return value variable at the end of the function.
20100627 04:25:34< Elvish_Pillager> But I'd like to avoid special variable names if at all possible.
20100627 04:26:51< Elvish_Pillager> Gambit: any thoughts?
20100627 04:27:38<+shikadibot> have I (shadowmaster) ever mentioned that excessive usage of macros sucks?
20100627 04:27:40< Gambit> Only that WML should be able to do {VARIABLE variable_name name_of_an_arry}
20100627 04:27:43< Gambit> and have that transfer.
20100627 04:28:00< Elvish_Pillager> you mean $name_of_an_array?
20100627 04:28:27< Elvish_Pillager> shikadibot: comments like that are why you are on my ignore list. please don't abuse your ability to speak to me through shikadibot, or I will remove that also
20100627 04:28:42<+shikadibot> Elvish_Pillager: you can't be serious.
20100627 04:28:44< Elvish_Pillager> (correction: are one of the reasons why)
20100627 04:28:56<+shikadibot> go to #wesnoth-dev or else
20100627 04:29:10< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: yes I meant that
20100627 04:29:16< Elvish_Pillager> hmm
20100627 04:29:31< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: you have shadowmaster ignored :s
20100627 04:29:33< Gambit> wth?
20100627 04:29:39< Elvish_Pillager> Like, as a kludge purely for [set_variable]?
20100627 04:30:00< Elvish_Pillager> are you asking me to explain why, or just expressing astonishment?
20100627 04:30:06-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [+o shadowmaster] by ChanServ
20100627 04:30:07< Gambit> erm both?
20100627 04:30:14-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [-o Gambit] by shadowmaster
20100627 04:30:28-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [+o Gambit] by shadowmaster
20100627 04:30:43<@Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: if we could assum it's always a one layer array with only one value then {FOREACH} would work
20100627 04:31:03<@Gambit> but stored units and locations (the most common variables) break that assumption into a million little pieces
20100627 04:31:07< Elvish_Pillager> but no, the only way is with [set_variables] to_variable=
20100627 04:31:07<@Gambit> and throw it out the windows
20100627 04:31:14<@Gambit> shadowmaster: are you trying to see if I abuse it or what?
20100627 04:31:27<@shadowmaster> no, I was going to quiet Elvish_Pillager 
20100627 04:31:35<@Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: Does that not require that you know all the subvalues?
20100627 04:31:35<@shadowmaster> I mean ban
20100627 04:32:17<@Gambit> *names of all the subvalues
20100627 04:32:23< Elvish_Pillager> Gambit: No.
20100627 04:32:29< Elvish_Pillager> to_variable copies an array.
20100627 04:32:39-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [+z] by shadowmaster
20100627 04:32:40<@Gambit> oh :s
20100627 04:32:52 * Gambit needs to put that tag on his "thinks to look into again" list
20100627 04:32:58< Elvish_Pillager> Hmm, you didn't know any way to copy an array?
20100627 04:32:58<@Gambit> *things
20100627 04:33:08-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [+b *!~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com$#wesnoth-dev] by shadowmaster
20100627 04:33:28-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [-o shadowmaster] by shadowmaster
20100627 04:34:03< shadowmaster> Gambit: besides, you can't abuse it.
20100627 04:34:15<@Gambit> yeah I'm an op with no other flags
20100627 04:34:16< shadowmaster> there's really nothing you can do with it since you aren't in the access list
20100627 04:34:52< shadowmaster> but I'm not willing to have an idiot in *my* channel ignoring *me* and complaining about everything he can
20100627 04:35:29< shadowmaster> so the next time he goes to #wesnoth-dev
20100627 04:35:32< shadowmaster> period.
20100627 04:38:53-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [+o shadowmaster] by ChanServ
20100627 04:39:12-!- Elvish_Pillager was kicked from #wesnoth-umc-dev by shadowmaster [you do not belong here]
20100627 04:39:27-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [-o shadowmaster] by shadowmaster
20100627 04:39:36<@Gambit> :\
20100627 04:40:22-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [-o Gambit] by ChanServ
20100627 04:40:53< shadowmaster> in other news I found my battery charger
20100627 04:42:18< Gambit> yay?
20100627 04:44:26< shadowmaster> yes
20100627 04:44:51< shadowmaster> because I need to charge my old rechargeable batteries to have my wireless mouse working again and continue working on stuff
20100627 04:46:06< Gambit> yay indeed then
20100627 04:47:08< Aethaeryn> ?
20100627 04:47:57< Gambit> Aethaeryn: who knows
20100627 04:51:27< Aethaeryn> well, it seems like I missed something
20100627 04:51:35< shadowmaster> a lot
20100627 04:52:13< Gambit> Aethaeryn: It sounds like an old fight.
20100627 04:52:27< Aethaeryn> also, everyone knows that you never *actually* ignore someone in IRC.
20100627 04:52:39< shadowmaster> no, you ban them
20100627 04:52:49< shadowmaster> for ignoring you, the channel founder
20100627 04:52:59< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100627 04:53:04< Aethaeryn> that's just not a good thing to do
20100627 04:53:19< shadowmaster> I actually have two people from elsewhere ignored
20100627 04:53:36< Aethaeryn> eh... I just pretend-ignore. otherwise trouble and/or hilarity can happen.
20100627 04:53:42< shadowmaster> mainly because they are unfunny clowns who dedicate all their spare time to belittling people
20100627 04:53:53< Aethaeryn> ah
20100627 04:53:57< Aethaeryn> are they people in #wesnoth ?
20100627 04:53:58< shadowmaster> and oit in a rather noisy way, while at it
20100627 04:54:02< Aethaeryn> and #wesnoth-music ?
20100627 04:54:03< shadowmaster> *do it
20100627 04:54:12< shadowmaster> no, from t#defocus
20100627 04:54:26< shadowmaster> I can't spell tonight
20100627 04:54:45< Aethaeryn> ah
20100627 04:55:30< Aethaeryn> well, yeah, you don't ignore a channel founder
20100627 04:55:47< shadowmaster> look, my name is on the topic
20100627 04:56:07< Aethaeryn> "Asking for advice and ignoring it is punishable with a ban"
20100627 04:56:18< Aethaeryn> you don't really want to ignore anyone who might give advice actually
20100627 04:58:34-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-103-91-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
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20100627 05:34:02-!- Gambit [~quassel@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Though to our health we drank a thousand times, it's time to ramble on.]
20100627 05:47:43< Espreon> ... and I'm back...
20100627 05:59:16-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...]
20100627 06:31:28-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20100627 06:31:44-!- Aethaeryn is now known as `\
20100627 06:32:54< `\> shadowmaster: I'm reading the protocol so I can do a bot
20100627 06:33:08< `\> it too me a while of going through nickserv to find one that wasn't taken.
20100627 06:33:24< `\> a nick that looks impossible :o
20100627 06:33:50< shadowmaster> be careful
20100627 06:33:56-!- `\ is now known as Aethaeryn
20100627 06:33:56< shadowmaster> some of those are autokilled for some reason
20100627 06:34:01< Aethaeryn> yeah, I realize the inherent danger
20100627 06:34:04< Aethaeryn> people thinking it's a bot.
20100627 06:34:14< Aethaeryn> Wasn't intending on keeping it forever
20100627 06:34:36< Aethaeryn> names like `}}} generally just join chans to DCC kill mIRC lusers
20100627 06:35:33< Aethaeryn> though if I ever make a network, I *will* have to register `, ^, or -
20100627 06:35:58< Aethaeryn> maybe ^-^
20100627 06:36:01< shadowmaster> just Q-line those
20100627 06:36:18< Aethaeryn> a lot of them are actually registered
20100627 06:36:31< Aethaeryn> took ten looks through nickserv to find one, `\ that looked cool/interesting that was unregistered
20100627 06:36:45< Aethaeryn> hmm
20100627 06:36:49< Aethaeryn> I think I have to switch back
20100627 06:36:54-!- Aethaeryn is now known as `\
20100627 06:37:21< `\> Blueblaze is drunk in #wesnoth-music
20100627 06:45:35-!- `\ is now known as Aethaeryn
20100627 07:01:40-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: <Insert witty phrase here.>]
20100627 07:02:05-!- MikeJB [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20100627 07:02:25-!- MikeJB is now known as Aethaeryn
20100627 07:03:12< Aethaeryn> okay...
20100627 07:03:15< Aethaeryn> hooray paranoia.
20100627 07:44:10< Espreon> shadowmaster: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=438030#p438030
20100627 07:44:58< shadowmaster> I saw that already
20100627 07:46:16< Espreon> Ah, I see.
20100627 07:52:46< Aethaeryn> oooh
20100627 07:52:56< Aethaeryn> I need to play the new fits-more-into-IftU UtBS
20100627 07:53:02< Aethaeryn> whenever it's ready to be playtested
20100627 07:53:58< shadowmaster> not yet
20100627 07:54:08< shadowmaster> in fact, I don't  think any of the scheduled changes have ahppened yet
20100627 07:55:53< Espreon> Indeed.
20100627 08:03:12< shadowm_laptop> you know, I'm tempted to give fglrx another opportunity.
20100627 08:03:21< shadowm_laptop> maybe I'm just going nuts.
20100627 08:03:41< Espreon> Don't.
20100627 08:03:53< Espreon> It only causes pain and suffering for fendrin.
20100627 08:04:14< shadowm_laptop> yes, but he doesn't have a Radeon HD 3200
20100627 08:04:31< shadowm_laptop> a.k.a. "thingy that uses a RS780 chipset"
20100627 08:04:50< Espreon> Do as you wish.
20100627 08:05:03< shadowm_laptop> maybe it's unfair from me to not give ATI/AMD another oportunity
20100627 08:05:12< shadowm_laptop> maybe they have learned a lesson
20100627 08:05:32< Espreon> The key word is "maybe".
20100627 08:05:47< shadowm_laptop> I am also kind of tempted to run a source distro on my desktop.
20100627 08:05:55< Espreon> Do it.
20100627 08:05:56< shadowm_laptop> but I'm not using my desktop a lot so it'd be pointless
20100627 08:22:15-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...]
20100627 09:12:57< Espreon> Oh, wow, apparently, I've been using the classic mesa driver all this time.
20100627 09:15:12< shadowmaster> how so "classic"?
20100627 09:15:21< Espreon> As opposed to gallium.
20100627 09:15:33< shadowmaster> well, I am ussing the classic driver too
20100627 09:15:49< shadowmaster> I was told in #radeon that the gallium3d driver for the r6xx isn't complete yet
20100627 09:16:05< shadowmaster> so I don't see any point in even compiling it
20100627 09:16:38< Espreon> After I finish emerging these things, I'm trying gallium.
20100627 09:31:02< Espreon> Yay, things to reëmerge.
20100627 10:09:00< Espreon> ... and now to test gallium.
20100627 10:09:28< shadowmaster> Espreon: why are you using bash on the VPS?
20100627 10:09:58< shadowmaster> actually, the same goes to AI0867 
20100627 10:10:22< shadowmaster> remember that every single bash instance tends to take up a bit more than 3 MB of RAM, guys
20100627 10:10:41< shadowmaster> so try to avoid using bash if you can (or keeping it around for long)
20100627 10:11:37< shadowmaster> Espreon: also, it seems like you are wasting a shell instance on a screen for running irssi from it
20100627 10:12:01< shadowmaster> I prefer to make irssi the "shell" for the screen like this: $ screen irssi
20100627 10:12:30< shadowmaster> even if that means that if irssi dies, that screen window (or session) will also cease to exist
20100627 10:12:47< shadowmaster> also, I'm not ordering you around, these are just suggestions
20100627 10:13:28< shadowmaster> we are using 122 MB of RAM atm so it's still good
20100627 10:29:08< Espreon> ... and of course, I can't get it to work.
20100627 10:29:20< Espreon> ... now to wait for Ivanovic...
20100627 10:41:26-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
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20100627 10:55:24< Espreon> shadowmaster: Damn it, I need KMS!
20100627 10:55:36< Espreon> (That's what Ivanovic told me)
20100627 10:55:53< Espreon> Well, here we go!
20100627 10:58:36< shadowmaster> good luck
20100627 10:58:50< shadowmaster> I can't join you in your adventure because r600g's development appears to be halted
20100627 10:59:00< shadowmaster> or something
20100627 10:59:06< Espreon> Ah, I see.
20100627 11:00:16< Espreon> Heh, "Kazegami, the god of wind ..."
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20100627 11:02:11< Espreon> shadowmaster: Isn't redundancy just grand?
20100627 11:05:31< fendrin> fglrx is really anal punishment.
20100627 11:06:54< fendrin> But I got it to work. More or less.
20100627 11:10:30< shadowmaster> that means it still crashes?
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20100627 13:33:41< Espreon> shadowmaster: ... and of course, KMS still makes everything slower.
20100627 13:34:07< Espreon> 2.6.35 better fix this, if the problem lies in the kernel.
20100627 14:05:02< Espreon> OK, Japanese is now fully supported (not even Wesnoth's CJKV font fully convers katakana and hiragana).
20100627 14:05:30< Espreon> With that said, that may be a problem for the Japanese translation... maybe.
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20100627 14:35:59< Espreon> shadowmaster: Heh, I fixed it for things that actually use OpenGL. To get Wesnoth working at a tolerable rate, I have to have a compositing window manager enabled and I have to disable map animations.
20100627 14:39:23< Gambit> Guys! It's the end of the world!
20100627 14:39:54< Espreon> Riveting tale, chap!
20100627 14:39:54< Gambit> When wesnoth trys to create a unit where a unit already exists, it puts the new unit northwest instead of north!
20100627 14:40:08< Gambit> Espreon: That is the coolest adaptation of a meme I have ever seen.
20100627 14:40:26< Espreon> Uh, it's the verbose version... :þ
20100627 14:40:32< Espreon> ... the most common verbose version.
20100627 14:41:00< Espreon> Shame on you for not knowing about verbosity.
20100627 14:41:47< Gambit> But at the moment 22:23:48 <shadowmaster> I don't care 
20100627 14:41:53< Gambit> NORTH WEST!
20100627 14:42:03< Espreon> Riveting tale, chap!
20100627 14:42:12< Gambit> Espreon: My whole world has been turned... 45 degrees!
20100627 14:42:26< Gambit> no wait...
20100627 14:42:32< Gambit> -60 degrees!
20100627 14:42:55< Espreon> Whatever.
20100627 14:43:17< Gambit> Actually it's not that big of a deal at all I was just wondering if anyone knew what changed?
20100627 14:43:52< Gambit> This has to have been accidental because I doubt anyone sat down and said "let's make the find_vacant thing work more like [store_locations]".
20100627 14:44:04< Gambit> You guys turn down WAAAY more important things all the time.
20100627 14:47:26< Espreon> Sigh, Wesnoth really needs OpenGL...
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20100627 16:41:47< AI0867> Gambit: might be a side-effect of a terrain layering fix
20100627 16:41:53< AI0867> that's just guesswork though
20100627 17:20:50< Gambit> 1.9 is going to look absurdly good.
20100627 17:21:10< Gambit> And the WML side of things is going to get much improved as well.
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20100627 18:03:31< Espreon> ... Damn right!
20100627 18:04:23< Espreon> With the new terrain and the effects of my reign of terror, 1.9 will be a brilliant gem!
20100627 18:06:02< Espreon> ... and I have to go...
20100627 18:06:07 * Espreon disappears...
20100627 18:20:01< Gambit> Reign of Terror? wha?
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20100627 20:19:47< Espreon> Gambit: Uh, I'm the Typography Tyrant.
20100627 20:28:15< Espreon> shadowmaster: Wow, I can play Frogatto while Compiz is enabled without any tearing in Frogatto.
20100627 20:30:10< Aethaeryn> Espreon: so do you like the font Hulavuta?
20100627 20:30:14< Aethaeryn> oh wait, Helvitica.
20100627 20:30:21< Aethaeryn> Sorry, always mix the two up
20100627 20:30:26< Espreon> IDK.
20100627 20:30:32< Aethaeryn> Espreon: Arial.
20100627 20:30:36< Espreon> IDK.
20100627 20:30:39< Aethaeryn> with like 4 letters different.
20100627 20:30:40< Aethaeryn> OGM
20100627 20:30:41< Aethaeryn> *OMG
20100627 20:31:04< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetica
20100627 20:31:11< Aethaeryn> so classic they even made a film about it
20100627 20:31:13< Aethaeryn> not kidding
20100627 20:31:20< Espreon> I'm not a font fetishist; if the fonts are pleasing to me and are legible and easily readable, then I'm fine.
20100627 20:31:23< Aethaeryn> I wish I was kidding
20100627 20:31:29< Espreon> *were
20100627 20:32:26< Espreon> Hmmmm... when I rotate the cube, Frogatto plays nicely...
20100627 20:32:32< Espreon> This is AWESOME!
20100627 20:33:32< Espreon> Aethaeryn: Sure, why not?
20100627 20:34:52< Espreon> I wonder if I can get Portal to actually run.
20100627 20:34:58< Espreon> ... probably not, but, yeahz.
20100627 20:35:01< zookeeper> you can try asciiportal.
20100627 20:35:18< Espreon> zookeeper: Take your Norman-worshipping standards elsewhere.
20100627 20:36:01< Aethaeryn> I AM MAKING THE LANGUAGE MORE PURE BY REMOVING THE CORRUPTION KNOWN AS "LOWER CASE LETTERS". CLASSICAL LANGUAGE DID NOT HAVE SUCH BASTARDIZATIONS.
20100627 20:36:15< Espreon> DAMN RIGHT!
20100627 20:36:27< Aethaeryn> OOOH, LOOK... I'M HALF OF A CHARACTER. I'M SO SPECIAL.
20100627 20:36:44< Aethaeryn> I DOUBLE THE WORK OF ANYONE LEARNING A LANGUAGE AND OFTEN MAKE NO SENSE COMPARED TO THE OTHER FORM...
20100627 20:38:21< Espreon> Aethaeryn: Also rant about the lack of non-transparent inflection systems that are so common...
20100627 20:38:47< Aethaeryn> I'll also rant about how right-hand-biased righting left-to-right is.
20100627 20:38:52< Aethaeryn> 'cause it is biased.
20100627 20:39:04< Aethaeryn> I'm near ambidextrous now and I'm *still* slower left-handed in writing.
20100627 20:39:05< Espreon> But left-handed people are evil! LOL.
20100627 20:39:08< Aethaeryn> eh
20100627 20:39:18< Aethaeryn> what are ambidextrous people then?
20100627 20:39:20< Aethaeryn> yin/yang?
20100627 20:39:24< Espreon> Hmmm... neutral people!
20100627 20:39:38< Aethaeryn> Espreon: lawful neutral, chaotic neutral, or true neutral?
20100627 20:39:45< Espreon> You gotta watch out for those neutral people...
20100627 20:39:51< Espreon> Aethaeryn: Shut up.
20100627 20:40:04< Aethaeryn> also, I think lefties are lawful evil if they right neatly and chaotic evil if their handwriting is sloppy
20100627 20:40:07< Aethaeryn> :P
20100627 20:40:31< Aethaeryn> people who write in cursive should just be sent to Gitmo though.
20100627 20:40:32< Espreon> The sinister man helped the crippled boy into the ice cream shop.
20100627 20:40:34< Espreon> LOL.
20100627 20:40:49< Espreon> Aethaeryn: People write in cursive?
20100627 20:40:53< Aethaeryn> in 200 years, no one will read cursive
20100627 20:41:01< Aethaeryn> And yes, I've seen someone write in cursive notes before.
20100627 20:41:09< Aethaeryn> usually one per every few classes.
20100627 20:41:11< Espreon> Shavian's better!
20100627 20:41:17< Aethaeryn> everyone else forgot how to write everything but their name in cursive...
20100627 20:41:21< Aethaeryn> after 3rd grade
20100627 20:41:29< Aethaeryn> since 3rd grade was really the only year I remember that they forced it I think.
20100627 20:41:35< Espreon> Indeed.
20100627 20:41:41< Aethaeryn> so many things I learned in elementary school I won't use...
20100627 20:41:44< Aethaeryn> so many practical things.
20100627 20:41:51< Aethaeryn> how to read an analog clock/watch.
20100627 20:41:56< Aethaeryn> how to write in cursive.
20100627 20:42:22< Aethaeryn> how to dial numbers with area codes since they were newly mandatory (just save it into your cell phone, duh, and don't need to use phone ettiquite since you just text)
20100627 20:43:09< Aethaeryn> don't forget that reading was a useless lesson in school.
20100627 20:43:27< Aethaeryn> Either your parents taught you how to read outside of school and you spent the whole time *at least* two years above your level... 
20100627 20:43:41< Aethaeryn> or you learned in school and spent the whole time two years below, thus forming an average no one ways at ;-)
20100627 20:43:54< Aethaeryn> *no one was at
20100627 20:45:35< Aethaeryn> in fact, only two things were really not wasted in the entire grade school (K-12, or even P-12).
20100627 20:45:59< Aethaeryn> Five years of Latin, which saves me 101, 102, and 201 in college (yes, let's see an AP get you out of *three* classes, including a sophomore-level one)
20100627 20:46:09< Aethaeryn> And math, which although I didn't like it then, makes math a million times easier now.
20100627 20:46:51< Aethaeryn> Just about everything else I learned either outside of school or just about school (i.e. how to get As)
20100627 20:46:57< Aethaeryn> not actual content.
20100627 20:47:43< Aethaeryn> Espreon: With the advent of Wikipedia, most disciplines in grade school are now useless and teach less material (and takes more time) than the Internet teaches. Agree? y/n
20100627 20:49:11< Aethaeryn> The internet has made most dead-tree learning obsolete!
20100627 20:49:23< Espreon> Yes.
20100627 20:49:46< Aethaeryn> Espreon: You should like my use of the word "dead-tree" btw.
20100627 20:49:52< Espreon> Jeß...
20100627 20:49:57< Aethaeryn> It uses a tradition more found in older English literature.
20100627 20:49:59< Aethaeryn> Like Beowulf.
20100627 20:50:04< Aethaeryn> Wordplay that has been lost in modern times.
20100627 20:50:05< Aethaeryn> :'(
20100627 20:50:18< Aethaeryn> even Beowulf itself is a pun like this.
20100627 20:50:25< Aethaeryn> beo-wulf.
20100627 20:50:30< Aethaeryn> bee-wolf. bear.
20100627 20:50:48< Aethaeryn> dead-tree. something made by killing trees. paper/books.
20100627 20:50:48< Espreon> Why did you write like "bee-wolf"?
20100627 20:50:58< Aethaeryn> Espreon: because some people might be ignorant.
20100627 20:51:00< Aethaeryn> ;-)
20100627 20:51:06< Aethaeryn> gotta account for the lurkers.
20100627 20:51:09< Espreon> Aethaeryn: No, that's not the correct pronunciation.
20100627 20:51:14< Aethaeryn> well
20100627 20:51:21< Aethaeryn> I thought it translates roughly to bee-wolf?
20100627 20:51:35< Espreon> Meh, there are many possible meanings of the name.
20100627 20:51:42< Aethaeryn> eh
20100627 20:51:43< Aethaeryn> w/e
20100627 20:51:49< Aethaeryn> that's part of the fun of wordplay
20100627 20:51:53< Aethaeryn> somewhat ambiguous.
20100627 20:52:00< Aethaeryn> for instance, dead-tree can refer to lots of stuff
20100627 20:52:05< Espreon> We should:
20100627 20:52:13< Aethaeryn> all loosely in the category of "things the Internet replaced"
20100627 20:52:16< Espreon> 1. Destroy America's educational system from the inside
20100627 20:52:26< Espreon> 2. Deprecate Modern English
20100627 20:52:50< Espreon> 3. Teach Old English, calling it... Englisc.
20100627 20:52:55< Espreon> 4. ???
20100627 20:53:08< Espreon> 5. Stupid, retarded abomination dead... and profit!
20100627 20:54:05< Aethaeryn> eh
20100627 20:54:16< Aethaeryn> you can stick to your new contraption called "Old English"
20100627 20:54:23< Aethaeryn> such a new hodgepodge of languages.
20100627 20:54:32< Aethaeryn> I'll do Latin.
20100627 20:56:12< Espreon> It is not a hodgepodge.
20100627 20:56:48< Espreon> In my edition, the Normans and the Christians never happened.
20100627 20:57:42< Aethaeryn> XD
20100627 20:57:52< Aethaeryn> so?
20100627 20:57:57< Aethaeryn> It's still not the true English language.
20100627 20:58:09< Aethaeryn> Far before Old English, the people of England spoke Latin.
20100627 20:58:14< Aethaeryn> Londinium and all
20100627 20:58:21< Espreon> Thos are the Celtic peoples.
20100627 20:58:23< Espreon> *Those
20100627 20:58:32< Espreon> The Anglo-Saxons are different.
20100627 20:58:46< Espreon> It wasn't England before the Anglo-Saxons got there.
20100627 20:59:08< Espreon> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/England#Etymology
20100627 21:00:37< Espreon> Aethaeryn: ... and before you say "LOL, no", then your precious Latin isn't the language of Italy, Borean is.
20100627 21:00:47< Espreon> Borean rules all...
20100627 21:00:57< Espreon> ... pretty much.
20100627 21:01:24< Aethaeryn> Espreon: Latin isn't the language of Italy, it's the language of Roma Latiumque.
20100627 21:01:40< Aethaeryn> And my ancestors on my grandfather's side aren't from Italy, they're from *central* Italy... aka. true Italy.
20100627 21:01:54< Espreon> Yeah, yeah, take your guidi and go party.
20100627 21:02:00< Aethaeryn> northern Italy lacks the ancient link. southern Italy lacks the medieval/renaissance link.
20100627 21:02:03< Aethaeryn> so...
20100627 21:02:34< Espreon> Uh... Mussolini is the modern link!
20100627 21:02:56< Aethaeryn> oh, yes, forgot about him and his third way between capitalism and socialism.
20100627 21:02:58< Espreon> Oh, waiy, he's dead.
20100627 21:03:00< Espreon> *wait
20100627 21:03:04< Aethaeryn> Oh wait, Clinton also promoted an economic third-way between capitalism and socialism.
20100627 21:03:08< Aethaeryn> Therefore...
20100627 21:03:15< Aethaeryn> Bill Clinton is from the Italian fascist school of thought?
20100627 21:03:35< Aethaeryn> It all makes sense now.
20100627 21:03:50< Aethaeryn> Al Gore's actions can be completely rational if he's described within the lense of "environmental fascism"
20100627 21:04:45< Aethaeryn> Espreon: also, the scientists are laughably biased on both sides of the environmental discussions depending on which agendas pay their bills...
20100627 21:05:07< Aethaeryn> so, while I am against the global warming crowd, I'm also against the anti-global warming crowd.
20100627 21:05:10< Aethaeryn> :-P
20100627 21:05:54< Aethaeryn> The global warming crowd does the right thing for the wrong reason (scare people into taking care of the environment) and the anti-global warming crowd does the wrong thing for the right reason (it's a bunch of dubious scare tactics being used to encourage environmentalism)
20100627 21:05:57< Espreon> Aethaeryn: So, in conclusion, Old English is the language of England and is not a hodgepodge.
20100627 21:06:09< Aethaeryn> really, you should take care of the environment, whether or not we're all going to die on the coasts in a few decades
20100627 21:06:21< Espreon> Damn right.
20100627 21:06:31< Aethaeryn> So global warming is a moot point, really.
20100627 21:06:44< Aethaeryn> I don't care who's right.
20100627 21:08:18< Aethaeryn> Not saying global warming is necessarily false, either, just saying it has been greatly propagandized.
20100627 21:08:25< Aethaeryn> The media can't do anything right.
20100627 21:08:47< Aethaeryn> Everyone in journalism from now on needs to get a minor in statistics or something. Seriously.
20100627 21:08:54< Espreon> Indeed.
20100627 21:09:07< Aethaeryn> Rolling Stone is the worst offender in terms of liberal scare tactics, btw.
20100627 21:09:13< Aethaeryn> And it's a fucking music magazine.
20100627 21:09:14< Aethaeryn> Seriously.
20100627 21:09:19< Aethaeryn> Or entertainment at least.
20100627 21:09:37< Espreon> Aethaeryn: Why does the Anglophone tolerate Modern English's shitty Frenchie orthography?
20100627 21:10:13< Aethaeryn> idk, they hate French
20100627 21:10:18< Aethaeryn> It's kinda funny how the English hate the French
20100627 21:10:22< Aethaeryn> but their spelling is closer to the French
20100627 21:10:25< Aethaeryn> e.g. "honour"
20100627 21:10:41< Espreon> Some time ago, "-ize" was the thing in BE.
20100627 21:10:59< Espreon> ... at that time, "-ise" was considered "too French".
20100627 21:11:06< Aethaeryn> American English is in some ways more traditional than British English.
20100627 21:11:13< Aethaeryn> for instance, we still use "fall"
20100627 21:11:20< Aethaeryn> British English almost universally uses "autumn"
20100627 21:11:28< Aethaeryn> fall having fallen out of style when people were more cultured.
20100627 21:11:31< Espreon> "Autumn" is shit.
20100627 21:11:37< Aethaeryn> "Hey, it's fall cuz the leaves fall. lulz."
20100627 21:11:38< Espreon> The seasons must be kept pure!
20100627 21:11:43< Aethaeryn> eh
20100627 21:11:45< Aethaeryn> fall needs to stay there
20100627 21:11:49< Aethaeryn> because it rhymes with "call"
20100627 21:12:01< Aethaeryn> "winter, spring, summer, or fall... all you got to do is call..."
20100627 21:16:39< Aethaeryn> Espreon: My point is valid though. The more words in the vocabulary of a language, the more poetic you can be.
20100627 21:16:48< Aethaeryn> Synonyms are an artist's friends.
20100627 21:17:18< Aethaeryn> woah, no one has joined/left since Blueblaze and I joined hours ago
20100627 21:17:26< Aethaeryn> that's a first for an IRC channel this "large"
20100627 21:17:50< Espreon> Aethaeryn: Honestly, I'd be fine with all of this external shit if everything could be expressed with native terms without people saying "That's not a word!"
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20100627 21:19:42< Espreon> This keyboard... needs to be cleaned....
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20100627 21:27:07 * Blueblaze is back Aethaeryn!
20100627 21:35:41< Gambit> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/strategy/greedcorp/review.html
20100627 21:35:48< Gambit> ^that could be easily simulated in wesnoth
20100627 21:40:21< Gambit> (and I think I will)
20100627 21:40:45< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Wesnoth needs carriers, yes.
20100627 21:40:55< Aethaeryn> that way chasms can be more common without making non-fliers useles
20100627 21:40:57< Aethaeryn> think THS
20100627 21:42:21< Gambit> Aethaeryn: we already have carrier code that doesn't rely on silly blocks of terrain for unit storage.
20100627 21:42:28< Aethaeryn> nah
20100627 21:42:32< Aethaeryn> I like the silly blocks of terrain
20100627 21:42:32< Gambit> The THS way is the wrong way.
20100627 21:42:34< Aethaeryn> permits boarding.
20100627 21:42:38< Aethaeryn> and on-ship fighting
20100627 21:42:40< Gambit> It only worked in THS because of the boarding thing.
20100627 21:42:41< Aethaeryn> and lots of fun things.
20100627 21:42:48< Aethaeryn> I'm using it for spaceships in Thunderstone
20100627 21:42:54< Aethaeryn> since I like boarding and on-ship-view
20100627 21:42:55< Gambit> But now THS is restricted to THS's map.
20100627 21:43:01< Aethaeryn> no it's not.
20100627 21:43:07< Aethaeryn> Wesalwyn.
20100627 21:43:09< Aethaeryn> duh.
20100627 21:43:29< Gambit> *THS is restricted to maps specifically made for THS
20100627 21:43:33< Aethaeryn> I think the appropriate "but" is "but now THS is forked between an upstream by EP and a modified version for Aethaeryn's Maps"
20100627 21:44:11< Gambit> not to toot my own horn (insert xkcd link) but the right way to do it was the way I did it
20100627 21:44:20< Gambit> look at modern combat
20100627 21:44:37< Aethaeryn> Modern combat is a code mess.
20100627 21:44:39< Aethaeryn> Ask zookeeper 
20100627 21:44:49< Gambit> Yeah
20100627 21:44:50< Aethaeryn> zookeeper: Is Modern Combat a mess?
20100627 21:45:01< Aethaeryn> zookeeper: Or should PK's work be held up as example WML?
20100627 21:45:08< Gambit> You didn't have to bother him :\
20100627 21:45:12< Aethaeryn> And remember, he can settle any WML dispute.
20100627 21:45:23< Gambit> I meant look at Modern Combat (and THS) as a way NOT to do transportation
20100627 21:45:27< Aethaeryn> Ah.
20100627 21:45:31< Aethaeryn> oh
20100627 21:45:38< Aethaeryn> I thought Modern Combat fixed transport?
20100627 21:45:40< Aethaeryn> So that it stores it?
20100627 21:45:47< Gambit> Terrain chunks are bad
20100627 21:45:47< Aethaeryn> regardless, MC isn't as fun as THS.
20100627 21:45:52< Aethaeryn> In THS, boarding is half the fun.
20100627 21:45:57< Aethaeryn> And by half the fun, I mean all the fun in EP's rewrite.
20100627 21:46:19< Aethaeryn> especially now that you can assassinate someone by sinking their ship, and boarding it with just enough suicidal level 1s to block the plank.
20100627 21:46:30< Aethaeryn> all but the fliers/leader
20100627 21:46:35< Gambit> Well then someone needs to write a system that dynamically expands map and adds ships to the outside ring
20100627 21:46:45< Aethaeryn> EP
20100627 21:46:49< Aethaeryn> It dynamically adds it.
20100627 21:47:00< Aethaeryn> If you look at the maps using the new THS engine, Wesalwyn included, there's just a giant chunk of void.
20100627 21:47:03< Aethaeryn> No terrain.
20100627 21:47:10< Aethaeryn> Terrain's added as ships are added, removed as ships sink.
20100627 21:47:16< Aethaeryn> And more void is added at the bottom if necessary.
20100627 21:47:38< Gambit> Aethaeryn: THS needs to be an era that you can play on any map.
20100627 21:47:43< Aethaeryn> It was.
20100627 21:47:50< Aethaeryn> But EP says the dependency code sucks.
20100627 21:47:57< Aethaeryn> You *can* still use it as a dependency.
20100627 21:47:59< Aethaeryn> and call its macros.
20100627 21:48:08< Aethaeryn> But if a moron host doesn't download it, then the game will break.
20100627 21:48:18< Aethaeryn> And they'll hate YOUR addon instead of their own stupidity.
20100627 21:48:26< Aethaeryn> "OMG UR AD-ON IZ BROKENZ"
20100627 21:48:43< Aethaeryn> Could also break if he changes the upstream.
20100627 21:50:50< Aethaeryn> anyway
20100627 21:51:03< Aethaeryn> Gambit: this is why we do things that on the very basic surface look similar... but beyond that are very different
20100627 21:51:08< Aethaeryn> such as GEB vs. EoT.
20100627 21:51:22< Aethaeryn> We think the basic concept is cool, but completely disagree on whether certain details are cool or desireable.
20100627 21:51:26< Aethaeryn> But that's okay.
20100627 21:51:40< Aethaeryn> There's room for 10x as many content creators as there are content creators.
20100627 21:52:07< Aethaeryn> anyway, brb
20100627 21:53:58< Gambit> My whole thing is, if there is some random player out there wanting to play it a certain unnormal way, and the game breaks then I have failed.
20100627 21:57:12< zookeeper> Aethaeryn, err...
20100627 21:57:49< zookeeper> seriously, the last time i checked PK still doesn't understand even the very basics of WML so i doubt anything he does is exemplary
20100627 21:58:01< Gambit> PK didn't code it.
20100627 21:58:10< Gambit> MC was all A_Guy's doing AFAIK.
20100627 21:58:32< Gambit> But PK has been asking some pretty advanced questions lately.
20100627 21:59:03< Gambit> (assuming of course I'm qualified to rule on what advanced questions are) so... advanced to me.
20100627 21:59:40< Gambit> Well and some aren't so much advanced as they are just obscure, or things I've never experimented with.
20100627 21:59:47< Gambit> Like sticking events inside of units?
20100627 21:59:48< Gambit> Wtf?
20100627 22:00:11< Gambit> And he wanted to basically create an array one time without using an actual array.
20100627 22:00:16< Gambit> (for some reason or another)
20100627 22:02:14< zookeeper> PK has been asking me the same kind of basic questions and not learned neither the answers or how to ask questions right for so long that he is the only person whose threads i systematically refuse to reply to
20100627 22:03:57< zookeeper> he _never_ _learns_ _anything_
20100627 22:04:15< zookeeper> but then again that's just my experience
20100627 22:16:19-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20100627 22:17:55< shadowmaster> Espreon: that's KMS for you.
20100627 22:18:21< shadowmaster> they have added vsync, IRQ and suck to the KMS driver
20100627 22:18:39< Gambit> shadowmaster: what happened to Wintermute's "last visited date"?
20100627 22:18:40< shadowmaster> no new features for the classic driver :/
20100627 22:18:43< shadowmaster> s/suck/such/
20100627 22:18:47< Gambit> Database corruption, or he's just been gone that long?
20100627 22:20:27< shadowmaster> Last visited:  June 11th, 2010, 11:35 pm
20100627 22:20:33< shadowmaster> you saying?
20100627 22:20:43< Gambit> twas a hyphen
20100627 22:21:30< Gambit> still is
20100627 22:21:32< Gambit> Last visited:	 -
20100627 22:21:48< Gambit> Wait I know, he logs on anounymously doesn't he?
20100627 22:21:50< shadowmaster> not for me
20100627 22:21:51< Gambit> So only you can see.
20100627 22:21:52< Gambit> :D
20100627 22:21:58< Gambit> *only admins
20100627 22:22:01< shadowmaster> yes, I think he uses invisible mode
20100627 22:22:22< shadowmaster> I don't see him very often, so I'm not sure
20100627 22:24:01< Espreon> shadowmaster: Well, I'm keeping it, for I am mostly happy with my new setup.
20100627 22:24:58< shadowmaster> you almost make me want to try r600g
20100627 22:25:09< Espreon> Heh...
20100627 22:25:16< shadowmaster> or fglrx a.k.a. Catalyst
20100627 22:27:51< Gambit> Aethaeryn: what do you think the terrains would be from tallest to shortest?
20100627 22:28:20< Gambit> mountains, hills, grass, dirt, desert road, cave road, cave, chasm?
20100627 22:34:17< Aethaeryn> what about forest?
20100627 22:34:24< Aethaeryn> and rockbound cave?
20100627 22:34:29< Aethaeryn> and farmland?
20100627 22:34:45< Aethaeryn> and savana?
20100627 22:35:23< Gambit> I meant digging downwards in layers
20100627 22:35:35< Aethaeryn> you want to just merge grass/dirt/desert-road into flat
20100627 22:35:38< Aethaeryn> otherwise it gets too difficult.
20100627 22:35:42< Aethaeryn> maybe
20100627 22:35:47< Aethaeryn> oh
20100627 22:35:48< Aethaeryn> in WML
20100627 22:37:16< Gambit> yeah if you started on top of a moutain and dug down in layers
20100627 22:38:30< zookeeper> impassable mountains are higher than regular ones
20100627 23:03:33-!- elvish_sovereign [~Zoltan@pool-108-2-88-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20100627 23:10:59< Gambit> zookeeper: Do you know offhand what the game does when you unstore a unit with negative moves?
20100627 23:11:05< Gambit> Does it set them back to 0?
20100627 23:12:04< shadowmaster> the value wraps around as an unsigned integer and you get a unit with nearly 2^32 moves
20100627 23:12:25< shadowmaster> random yetis spawn across the map as a signal of the upcoming apocalypse
20100627 23:12:34< Gambit> nevermind, it's smarter than I thought
20100627 23:12:45< shadowmaster> and villages become sentient
20100627 23:12:58< shadowmaster> you know, you can always use :debug :unit foo=bar  for this stuff
20100627 23:13:12< Gambit> villages become what woses are to trees
20100627 23:13:21< zookeeper> Gambit, nope, i don't
20100627 23:13:28< Gambit> shadowmaster: Does that use the same underlying code as WML storing a unit, modifying something, and unstoring?
20100627 23:13:39< shadowmaster> I think so, not sure
20100627 23:13:46< Gambit> It seems to me that :debug allows values that might be impossible with WML
20100627 23:13:58< Gambit> Or is it the other way around...
20100627 23:14:28< shadowmaster> Gambit: yes, it uses the same code as [store_unit]/[unstore_unit]
20100627 23:14:37< shadowmaster> or at least the same principle
20100627 23:15:29< shadowmaster> the unit is serialized into a WML node object, the attribute is overridden with the value regardless of whether the attribute existed in the first place or not
20100627 23:15:44< shadowmaster> then the unit is restored into the unit map
20100627 23:16:10< shadowmaster> only in the latter step the game does any validation on it
20100627 23:16:39< shadowmaster> so yeah, you can pretty much break wesnoth with these commands, hence they are debug-only commands
20100627 23:17:00< shadowmaster> note that Wesnoth internally sees units as objects of their own kind, not as WML
20100627 23:17:10< shadowmaster> they can be serialized/unserialized as WML as required.
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20100627 23:21:16< Gambit> alright I'm off a bit to actually play this game before I go and make an entire addon based on it
20100627 23:21:26< Gambit> it better have been worth $9.99
20100627 23:21:29 * Espreon disappears...
20100627 23:23:16< Gambit> the great thing is that the addon is already 30% done and I've only been working for like 15 minutes
20100627 23:23:33 * Espreon materializes
20100627 23:23:38< Gambit> s/done/of the way to being releasable/
20100627 23:27:26< Gambit> aww stupid game has a 100mb patch to apply before I can play
20100627 23:43:55-!- noy [~Noy@70.70.255.54] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20100627 23:44:00-!- noy [~Noy@70.70.255.54] has quit [Changing host]
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20100627 23:51:09 * Espreon disappears...
--- Log closed Mon Jun 28 00:00:37 2010