--- Log opened Wed Jun 16 00:00:46 2010
20100616 00:03:05< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 00:03:25< PetePorty> u don't like being contradicted, do you?
20100616 00:04:50< shadowmaster> I don't see any contradiction
20100616 00:04:51-!- hagebake [~quassel@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100616 00:05:03< shadowmaster> other than bringing a completely irrelvant argument to the wrong place.
20100616 00:07:23< shadowmaster> if you think I came to this position by having people agree with all shit I say, you are completely wrong :P
20100616 00:09:40< PetePorty> ...am I?
20100616 00:10:01 * PetePorty shuts up (I am not contradicting you, I promise!)
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20100616 00:11:48< elias> i figured out why storyline is often broken in httt on the ipad
20100616 00:11:53< elias> i seem to have lost Delfador
20100616 00:12:21< elias> because this scenario has as lose connection that he should not die... so i assume he shold have been back by now :P
20100616 00:12:25< elias> *condition
20100616 00:12:29-!- mode/#wesnoth [-q *!*@84-50-143-71-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee] by ChanServ
20100616 00:12:32< shadowmaster> elias: what scenario is it?
20100616 00:12:40< elias> the one where Lisa appears
20100616 00:12:46< shadowmaster> o O
20100616 00:12:51< shadowmaster> of course he should be back
20100616 00:12:54< elias> heh
20100616 00:13:03< shadowmaster> at the end of the Siege of Elensefar, even
20100616 00:13:07< elias> yeah, in siege of elensefar 
20100616 00:13:16< elias> yes, that's where the story at the end seemed broken
20100616 00:13:32< PetePorty> ...
20100616 00:13:32< shadowmaster> maybe he was eaten by a grue
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20100616 00:14:04< PetePorty> How the hell did you  get Delfy to die?
20100616 00:14:09< elias> ah, guess i'll play on, just with some extra difficulty
20100616 00:14:24< shadowmaster> I guess that his unit was stored in Bay of Pearls and never unstored bck
20100616 00:14:28< shadowmaster> *back
20100616 00:14:35< PetePorty> oh...
20100616 00:14:46< PetePorty> how can that happen?
20100616 00:14:54< shadowmaster> it's supposed to be unstored at the end of BoP for a dialog sequence, stored again and unstored at the end of Siege of Elensefar
20100616 00:14:56< PetePorty> have you been messing with the script?
20100616 00:15:09< shadowmaster> he's talking about the iPad version
20100616 00:15:13< PetePorty> =)
20100616 00:15:27< PetePorty> dunno, thats my new answer...
20100616 00:15:33< shadowmaster> I'd not be surprised with any odd bbehavior in the iPhone and iPad ports
20100616 00:15:34< PetePorty> I'm a tecnician now....
20100616 00:15:48< shadowmaster> you are no technician
20100616 00:16:05 * elias loads some old savegames
20100616 00:16:20-!- hystreni [~hystreni@ip9.trandansen.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar]
20100616 00:16:47< PetePorty> "Pete, my computer isn't working" "Hae you been messing arround with the code?" "ummmm.... no, what's that?" "oh, then you must have a virus".
20100616 00:17:09< PetePorty> Have*
20100616 00:17:23< PetePorty> see? problem solved!
20100616 00:17:47< elias> delfador is alive in bay of perls :)
20100616 00:18:01< shadowmaster> elias: during the whole scenario?
20100616 00:18:35< PetePorty> O.o what are .bat files?
20100616 00:18:40< elias> can't say, there's no replays on ipad... so just savegame of near the end
20100616 00:18:52< PetePorty> is it normal that my cmd is bright red?
20100616 00:19:39< shadowmaster> elias: well, if it isn't during a dialog sequence then it means he was on the map for the whole scenario
20100616 00:19:45< shadowmaster> which Shouldn't Happen™
20100616 00:20:00< shadowmaster> feel free to complain to Kyle
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20100616 00:20:31< elias> shadowmaster: it isn't, he's fighting
20100616 00:20:37< elias> heh
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20100616 00:22:24< shadowmaster> PetePorty: want to play a game?
20100616 00:22:31< PetePorty> ummm...
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20100616 00:22:43< PetePorty> ok, lemme say bye to some guys
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20100616 00:23:27< PetePorty> k, now lemme open wesnoth
20100616 00:23:52< elias> strangely enough, Delf is gone from Muff Malal Peninsula... permanently it seems.
20100616 00:24:12< PetePorty> k Shadow, you make the game?
20100616 00:24:25< PetePorty> I'm joining lobby
20100616 00:24:27< shadowmaster> PetePorty: okay
20100616 00:24:32< PetePorty> k
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20100616 00:47:33< PetePorty> I hate you shadowmaster 
20100616 00:48:52< shadowmaster> I'm not the one who takes their leader out of the safe area for a suicide attack
20100616 00:48:55< shadowmaster> *injured leader
20100616 00:49:34< PetePorty> I forgot to move my other guys...
20100616 00:50:11< shadowmaster> you worry too much about losing or winning, though
20100616 00:51:49< PetePorty> Of course I do...it's a game, the point of a game is to have fun, without losing or tieing....
20100616 00:51:57< PetePorty> I guess that's how you say it
20100616 00:52:21< shadowmaster> if you worry too much about the overall outcome then you can't concentrate on the current turn
20100616 00:53:07< shadowmaster> losing a few units isn't an automatic loss (case in point: all the units you complained about in that game where you beat me)
20100616 00:53:54< shadowmaster> the good thing about MP maps is that since they aren't campaigns you don't need to worry about losing or keeping leveled units
20100616 00:54:28< PetePorty> I know, but a leveled unit DOES make a difference...
20100616 00:55:10< PetePorty> in the past 3 turns, you've killed 9 of my units, and I've killed only 2 of yours
20100616 00:55:10< shadowmaster> only for as long as it's useful
20100616 00:55:13< shadowmaster> and used correctly
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20100616 01:12:36< PetePorty> that's going on my signature... 'shadowmaster: I'm a lovely druid'
20100616 01:13:22< shadowmaster> I'd rather be a Shyde
20100616 01:13:26< shadowmaster> but Default uses L2 leaders
20100616 01:13:41< shadowmaster> Jetrel is working on a gorgeous new sprite for the Druid though
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20100616 01:14:30< PetePorty> my signature is gonna be so kewl...
20100616 01:14:50< PetePorty> kewl = cool's retarded brother
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20100616 01:54:08< Hulavuta> Hello
20100616 01:57:05< shadowmaster> hold on, banning a spambot
20100616 01:57:09< PetePorty> hi hula
20100616 01:57:14< shadowmaster> piano lamp my ass
20100616 01:57:20< PetePorty> no, plz don't ban me again...
20100616 01:57:27< PetePorty> :)
20100616 01:57:34< shadowmaster> you aren't a spambot
20100616 01:57:38< PetePorty> in the forums?
20100616 01:57:42< shadowmaster> and you don't have piano lamps in your signature
20100616 01:57:52< shadowmaster> yeah
20100616 01:57:54< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 01:58:10< PetePorty> so... how are you SURE it's a bot?
20100616 01:58:33< shadowmaster> because I've been at this for long enough to learn their patterns
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20100616 01:59:01< PetePorty> hmm....
20100616 01:59:04< PetePorty> ur turn btw
20100616 01:59:11< PetePorty> just saying...
20100616 01:59:30< PetePorty> =D
20100616 02:00:24< Hulavuta> Who was it?
20100616 02:00:50< Hulavuta> And isn't there spambot protection on registration? I'm guessing it's bad...
20100616 02:00:51< shadowmaster> I don't disclose bans
20100616 02:01:01< Hulavuta> Okay, but it was forums right?
20100616 02:01:07< shadowmaster> yes
20100616 02:01:09< Hulavuta> ok
20100616 02:01:20< shadowmaster> (although I gave enough hints to determine who it was anyway)
20100616 02:01:30< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 02:01:36< Hulavuta> But doesn't the signature go away when you're banned?>
20100616 02:01:40< PetePorty> plz don't ban me!
20100616 02:01:48< shadowmaster> no
20100616 02:01:54< shadowmaster> banned, not deleted
20100616 02:01:59< Hulavuta> Oh
20100616 02:02:00< PetePorty> :)
20100616 02:02:24< Hulavuta> So...Piano Lamps are a sign of spambots?
20100616 02:02:33< shadowmaster> depends on the context
20100616 02:02:50< shadowmaster> I can see more information about users than you are allowed to
20100616 02:02:52< Hulavuta> When I make a unit appear, can I use x,y= or do I have to use x= y=
20100616 02:03:03< shadowmaster> you can use x,y=
20100616 02:03:17< PetePorty> random subject switch
20100616 02:03:27< shadowmaster> you can use attr1,attr2,attr3,...,attrn=value1,value2,value3,...,valuen in general
20100616 02:03:41< Hulavuta> Ok
20100616 02:04:10< shadowmaster> it's convenient in places where you specify x,y values or red,green,blue values
20100616 02:05:54< Hulavuta> quick give me a good random trait that doesn't affect attack power
20100616 02:06:19< shadowmaster> intelligent
20100616 02:06:24< shadowmaster> resilient
20100616 02:06:34< Hulavuta> Resilient okay
20100616 02:06:51< Hulavuta> What's the one that gives you extra health?
20100616 02:07:17< shadowmaster> resilient
20100616 02:07:19< shadowmaster> also strong, but less so
20100616 02:07:27< Hulavuta> ok
20100616 02:09:19< PetePorty> dim, slow, quick
20100616 02:09:34< PetePorty> :)
20100616 02:11:27< Hulavuta> ....
20100616 02:11:31< shadowmaster> quick decreases max HP
20100616 02:11:43< shadowmaster> also, slow and dim aren't "good" IMO
20100616 02:11:55< Hulavuta> What's the macro for generating a unit?
20100616 02:12:08< Hulavuta> Wait, nevermind
20100616 02:14:26< Hulavuta> One more question, where do I find the list of names?
20100616 02:15:52< shadowmaster> data/core/macros/names.cfg
20100616 02:15:54< Hulavuta> k
20100616 02:16:01< shadowmaster> those are actually lists for the name generator
20100616 02:16:14< shadowmaster> a more elaborate alogirthm generates names using those lists
20100616 02:16:48< Hulavuta> Also, why is "Lizard" used instead of "Saurian" in WML?
20100616 02:17:14< shadowmaster> who knows
20100616 02:17:23< shadowmaster> internal names can be anything you want
20100616 02:17:48< shadowmaster> good to hide in-jokes
20100616 02:18:32< PetePorty> shadowmaster, sorry man, I'll have to leave soon....
20100616 02:18:42< shadowmaster> aw
20100616 02:18:48< shadowmaster> er.
20100616 02:18:51< PetePorty> I'll give my ally my units command...
20100616 02:18:58< shadowmaster> how soon?
20100616 02:19:01< PetePorty> sprry again, my mom's bugging me already...
20100616 02:19:12< PetePorty> in like.... untill she explodes....
20100616 02:19:26< shadowmaster> :(
20100616 02:19:33< PetePorty> prolly 1 more turn.... I'm really sorry....
20100616 02:21:38< Hulavuta> Okay, shadowmaster I have one more question
20100616 02:21:52< shadowmaster> ask
20100616 02:22:52< Hulavuta> Okay, in the middle of the scenario, an enemy leader will appear, but it's an Adept, which can be an easy kill if the player just leaves a unit near the point, so I was wondering if there is anyway to kill every unit in a certain area. 
20100616 02:23:00< Hulavuta> Or teleport?
20100616 02:24:02< shadowmaster> yes
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20100616 02:25:17< Hulavuta> So, please tell me?
20100616 02:25:40< shadowmaster> kill every unit that steps into an area?
20100616 02:25:43< shadowmaster> that's what you want?
20100616 02:25:52< hexstream> There really is a big problem with RNG cheating, isn't it?!?!?!
20100616 02:25:59< shadowmaster> hexstream: no
20100616 02:26:08< shadowmaster> and you'll get quieted if you complain about it here or in the forums
20100616 02:26:08< Hulavuta> Actually, make it teleport
20100616 02:26:19< Hulavuta> I want to teleport every unit in a certain area
20100616 02:26:28< shadowmaster> hexstream: okay, that's a bit harder.
20100616 02:26:35< shadowmaster> er, Hulavuta 
20100616 02:26:42< shadowmaster> you may want to ask about it in WML Workshop
20100616 02:27:01< Hulavuta> Can I use the x,y=6,3-4,5 thingy
20100616 02:27:16< Hulavuta> Fine, I'll just ask
20100616 02:27:17< shadowmaster> not sure if [teleport] handles multiple units/locations gracefully
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20100616 02:29:19< shadowmaster> okay, I've learned the proper way to deal with RNG trolls
20100616 02:29:30< shadowmaster> just threaten them with a quiet/ban and they go away
20100616 02:29:51< Hulavuta> lol
20100616 02:29:58< Hulavuta> But didn't he say RNG cheating?
20100616 02:30:24< Hulavuta> Like, someone hax the RNG to give them 90% CTH on everything?
20100616 02:30:58< shadowmaster> some people missed the "wesnothd handles RNG  now" memo
20100616 02:31:27< Hulavuta> Is that another IRC room?
20100616 02:31:43< shadowmaster> what is?
20100616 02:32:07< shadowmaster> wesnothd is the server software
20100616 02:32:24< Hulavuta> oh
20100616 02:32:34< Hulavuta> I'm going to go eat dinner now
20100616 02:32:58< shadowmaster> have fun
20100616 02:33:10< Hulavuta> lol
20100616 02:42:39< PetePorty> lol
20100616 02:43:15< PetePorty> lol
20100616 02:43:28< PetePorty> so... how did our match finish, shadowmaster ?
20100616 02:43:44< shadowmaster> badly
20100616 02:43:46< PetePorty> we won, right?
20100616 02:43:49< shadowmaster> your team is wwinning
20100616 02:43:51< PetePorty> I was winning...
20100616 02:43:53< shadowmaster> I'm already dead
20100616 02:43:54< PetePorty> oh cool
20100616 02:44:04< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 02:44:37< PetePorty> I had some reeeeeaaaally sweet RNG lucky turns
20100616 02:45:46< shadowmaster> and your leader's now got my keep
20100616 02:46:46< PetePorty> =D
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20100616 03:10:11< Hulavuta> Hey is shadowmaster still there?
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20100616 03:10:18< PetePorty> yes
20100616 03:11:15< shadowmaster> Hulavuta: yes
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20100616 03:12:35< Hulavuta> Not really important, but zaladore's up to his tripling again 
20100616 03:12:51< Hulavuta> Also no one has replied to my WMl question! :'(
20100616 03:13:09-!- Queenie [~teodora@178.218.198.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100616 03:13:14< shadowmaster> be patient
20100616 03:13:20< Hulavuta> I know 
20100616 03:13:26< shadowmaster> also, I'll look at zaladore ASAP, I'm busy with something right now
20100616 03:15:00< PetePorty> ie. blogging
20100616 03:15:19< elvish_sovereign> Hulavuta: can't you just use [teleport]?
20100616 03:15:36< elvish_sovereign> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/DirectActionsWML
20100616 03:16:43< Hulavuta> Yeah, but I wanted it to cover a 5 by 3 location
20100616 03:16:47< shadowmaster> as I said I'm not sure if [teleport] behaves well with multiple units
20100616 03:17:01< elvish_sovereign> well, I wasn't here for that
20100616 03:17:37< elvish_sovereign> I guess
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20100616 03:18:19< shadowmaster> warned zaladore
20100616 03:18:25< elvish_sovereign> A workaround: can you make the Da and skeles a different side,
20100616 03:18:37< elvish_sovereign> then use {TELEPORT_UNIT}
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20100616 03:18:54< Hulavuta> wut
20100616 03:18:59< Hulavuta> I want the Saurians to teleport
20100616 03:19:07< elvish_sovereign> and use [store_unit] to make it back into the original side?
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20100616 03:19:13< elvish_sovereign> oh
20100616 03:19:21< Hulavuta> Can't I use store unit and then unstore somewhere else?
20100616 03:19:22< elvish_sovereign> hmm
20100616 03:19:30< elvish_sovereign> i guess
20100616 03:19:34< Hulavuta> Does store cover more than one hex?
20100616 03:22:07< Hulavuta> ...
20100616 03:23:27< shadowmaster> depends on what filter you use
20100616 03:23:44< shadowmaster> it can handle multiple units, and in such case the store variable will actually be a WML array
20100616 03:28:09< Hulavuta> What's that?
20100616 03:42:04< shadowmaster> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/VariablesWML#Array
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20100616 04:18:40< PetePorty> psss.... shadowmaster.... you should get a job in here.... and help me out... http://www.specialattack.net/content/available-positions
20100616 04:18:48< PetePorty> :D
20100616 04:19:37-!- tyler__ [~tyler__@m4a0536d0.tmodns.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 04:19:37 * shadowmaster rolls eyes
20100616 04:19:57< PetePorty> :)
20100616 04:20:10< PetePorty> its interesting...
20100616 04:20:23< PetePorty> If I knew anything about programming I'd take the job...
20100616 04:20:36-!- Fother [~Fother_J@pool-96-254-221-178.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 04:26:09< PetePorty> PLUS you get to help out the sexiest wesnothian ever.
20100616 04:28:09< ancestral> PetePorty: They already have a Perl coder
20100616 04:28:28< PetePorty> but... they need a C/C++ one
20100616 04:28:49< ancestral> I don't know that shadowmaster would stoop to the level of a C coder…?
20100616 04:29:22< shadowmaster> I respect C
20100616 04:29:44< ancestral> alright
20100616 04:29:46< shadowmaster> I'm currently learning to do some stuff in C, but I am obviously not as good at it as I am in C++
20100616 04:29:58< shadowmaster> or Perl
20100616 04:30:14-!- tyler__ [~tyler__@m4a0536d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100616 04:31:37< shadowmaster> I've been progressing too slowly on my own though, so I think I'll go hack in an existing C-based project
20100616 04:32:05< shadowmaster> most likely the one where I'm also translator to take advantage of my "influence"
20100616 04:32:12< shadowmaster> ;)
20100616 04:33:25< ancestral> Ahh, so you'd multi-class, I see
20100616 04:33:50< Appleman1234> lol
20100616 04:34:32< PetePorty> OMG.... this: http://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=7412 just made my day
20100616 04:34:47< shadowmaster> for a while I was translator, translation maintainer, coder, occasional mainline "artist" and forum admin all at the same time here
20100616 04:34:50< shadowmaster> boy that sucked
20100616 04:35:08< PetePorty> i wanna be a translator....
20100616 04:35:19< shadowmaster> Wesnoth's translations are ENORMOUS
20100616 04:35:21< PetePorty> and a forum admin....
20100616 04:35:28< shadowmaster> very time-consuming unless you are maintaining them after 100%
20100616 04:35:29< PetePorty> just like me shadowmaster 
20100616 04:35:50< shadowmaster> plus esr's style can be frustrating to translate at times
20100616 04:36:00< PetePorty> they call me the Big Peetah Porty
20100616 04:36:13< PetePorty> cuz I'm ENORMOUS
20100616 04:36:15< shadowmaster> at least not without dropping its flavor
20100616 04:36:43< shadowmaster> maintaining translations is also complicated when working with multiple people
20100616 04:36:56< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 04:36:59< shadowmaster> reading 1000+ strings in a single catalogue is no small task
20100616 04:37:03< PetePorty> you have to actually do that?
20100616 04:37:11-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100616 04:37:17< shadowmaster> well, I was the maintainer of the Spanish translation here for a while
20100616 04:37:18< PetePorty> like... REAL people
20100616 04:37:26< PetePorty> moan...
20100616 04:37:26< shadowmaster> so I had to work with 1 translator
20100616 04:37:33< PetePorty> I wanna do thaaaat....
20100616 04:38:05< shadowmaster> now consider that wesnoth has like 20 textdomains
20100616 04:38:16< PetePorty> awesome
20100616 04:38:19< shadowmaster> er, more than 20
20100616 04:38:52< shadowmaster> apparently 1.8 has 14162 strings
20100616 04:39:06< shadowmaster> trunk has 14510 at the moment
20100616 04:39:19< shadowmaster> most of those come from campaign textdomains
20100616 04:39:22< shadowmaster> and that's terrible
20100616 04:40:32 * shadowmaster is slightly frustrated at the high amount of non-mainline games in MP :P
20100616 04:40:43< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 04:41:08< PetePorty> collosseum?
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20100616 04:41:41< PetePorty> Gambit!
20100616 04:41:46< shadowmaster> in general
20100616 04:41:52< shadowmaster> lots of UMC eras, maps or scenarios
20100616 04:41:54< PetePorty> hmm...
20100616 04:42:03< PetePorty> well, some eras r really cool
20100616 04:42:08< PetePorty> some maps too
20100616 04:42:14< shadowmaster> yeah, but I prefer mainline
20100616 04:42:26< PetePorty> and... well, everyone likes a good mp scenario ever once in a while
20100616 04:42:33< shadowmaster> because mainline is Guaranteed To Be Balanced™
20100616 04:42:39< shadowmaster> (quickly, someone spread that acronym)
20100616 04:42:40< Gambit> Or your money back!
20100616 04:42:54< Gambit> MiGtbB?
20100616 04:42:59< shadowmaster> no, GTBB
20100616 04:43:04< Gambit> shikadibot: GTBB?
20100616 04:43:09< shikadibot> Sorry, I don't know what 'GTBB' means...
20100616 04:43:15< Gambit> Ouch 5 seconds.
20100616 04:43:18 * Gambit supresses laughter
20100616 04:43:22< shadowmaster> or GTB2
20100616 04:43:38< PetePorty> yeah, but after you've played with the same 6 factions for over a year.... you want to try out the other factions
20100616 04:43:46< Gambit> Nah.
20100616 04:43:51< Gambit> You want entirely new gameplay mechanics.
20100616 04:43:54< shadowmaster> well, I guess
20100616 04:43:55 * PetePorty slaps Gambit
20100616 04:43:57< Gambit> Like harvesting resources other than gold.
20100616 04:43:58< shadowmaster> but I haven't played with them for that long
20100616 04:44:01< Gambit> And building things.
20100616 04:44:08 * shadowmaster slaps Gambit 
20100616 04:44:08< PetePorty> GEB.... nah
20100616 04:44:14< PetePorty> not good enough
20100616 04:44:17< PetePorty> :D
20100616 04:44:28< shadowmaster> I like Wesnoth's simplicity
20100616 04:44:42< shadowmaster> *mainline* simplicity
20100616 04:44:50< PetePorty> lacks effort, it is an obvious rip-off of Bob the Mighty's A New Land...
20100616 04:44:57< Gambit> You want an expansive, randomly and procedurally generated, rpg-ish, single player campaign IN SPACE.
20100616 04:44:58< PetePorty> GEB sucks...
20100616 04:45:26< Gambit> Obvious rip off?
20100616 04:45:37< PetePorty> like that Galactic thing Bob did, that was awesome
20100616 04:45:37< shadowmaster> I don't think it'd be so popular if it was a rip-off
20100616 04:45:40< PetePorty> ;)
20100616 04:45:42< Gambit> Please... I EEE'd the crap out of ANL.
20100616 04:45:52< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 04:45:55< shadowmaster> heck, it seems to be more popular than ANL, which has rotten in mainline
20100616 04:46:15< PetePorty> nah, there are still a lot of people who play ANL
20100616 04:46:35< Gambit> PetePorty: I will tell lobby to highlight me about ANL games as well.
20100616 04:46:37< PetePorty> and GEB... is kinda hard to learn....
20100616 04:46:40< Gambit> And I will count for a week.
20100616 04:46:44< Gambit> Or I would; if I cared.
20100616 04:46:50< PetePorty> ok....
20100616 04:46:57< PetePorty> do they count if I make them...
20100616 04:47:00 * Gambit will just <cffile> through his IRC logs.
20100616 04:47:04< PetePorty> and close and make anotherone?
20100616 04:47:12 * shadowmaster kicks Gambit 
20100616 04:47:25< Gambit> Lobby highlights me at least 20 time a day about GEB.
20100616 04:47:31< Gambit> Yes; that's probably misuse of that channel.
20100616 04:47:36< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 04:47:39< Gambit> But nobody has murdered me for sitting in there yet.
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20100616 04:47:57< PetePorty> Gambit.... PLEASE do a GEB tutorial...
20100616 04:48:02< Gambit> No.
20100616 04:48:04< Gambit> GEB can go die.
20100616 04:48:10< Gambit> It sucks and I hate it and I want it to go away.
20100616 04:48:11< PetePorty> ok
20100616 04:48:18< PetePorty> me too
20100616 04:48:23< ancestral> Algebra
20100616 04:48:24 * Gambit wants to do something else.
20100616 04:48:27< ancestral> Dodgeball
20100616 04:48:36< ancestral> Sagebrush
20100616 04:48:44< PetePorty> then improve Gunpowder era without turning it into crap like papaguy
20100616 04:48:46< ancestral> Bargeboard
20100616 04:49:05< ancestral> Maybe you'll get some more highlights…
20100616 04:49:12< ancestral> Ridgeback
20100616 04:49:16< ancestral> Pageboy
20100616 04:49:26< ancestral> Zeitgeber
20100616 04:49:55< ancestral> Man, there's not many
20100616 04:50:53< Appleman1234> GEB ?
20100616 04:51:23< shadowmaster> Gambit's Empire Builder
20100616 04:51:26< Appleman1234> I don't even know what that is ...
20100616 04:51:27< Gambit> PetePorty: Also Galactic Empires was not random, procedural, rpg-ish, single player, or a campaign.
20100616 04:51:28< Appleman1234> oh ok
20100616 04:51:37< Gambit> Not saying it was bad.
20100616 04:51:48< Gambit> It's just not anything I said.
20100616 04:51:53< Gambit> except "in space"
20100616 04:52:06< Gambit> And Bob if you read this I still love you and ANL.
20100616 04:52:13< PetePorty> back
20100616 04:52:44< PetePorty> dude... I love all of Bobs work
20100616 04:52:47< Gambit> Love you in a "would kidnap you at a moments notice and force you to make wesnoth addons" kind of way.
20100616 04:52:54< Gambit> <3
20100616 04:53:09 * Gambit goes to his Bob The Mighty shrine
20100616 04:53:27< PetePorty> he kinda twists wesnoth gameplay so much, his addons could be a separate game.
20100616 04:54:22< Gambit> shad0wmaster went silent on us.
20100616 04:54:42< Gambit> Pfft.
20100616 04:54:57< Gambit> Him and his more important things to do. We'll throw a party and not invite him.
20100616 04:55:30< Gambit> It'll be a perl party.
20100616 04:55:48< Appleman1234> did Bhentedos disappear of the face of the earth ?
20100616 04:55:51< ancestral> Perl party!
20100616 04:55:53< ancestral> Can I come?
20100616 04:56:18< Gambit> Where everyone ignores you unless you say "print" first and semicolon afterwards.
20100616 04:56:18< PetePorty> Gambit, he's with 'the other'
20100616 04:56:58< PetePorty> print Gambut, he's with his pet project;
20100616 04:57:25< Gambit> print 'And don't forget those quotation marks.';
20100616 04:57:31< PetePorty> damn
20100616 04:57:41< PetePorty> print 'damn';
20100616 04:57:52 * Appleman1234 sighs
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20100616 04:57:56< PetePorty> print '#frogatto';
20100616 04:58:00< PetePorty> lol
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20100616 05:00:41< PetePorty> hahaha
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20100616 05:03:45< shadowmaster> <shadowmaster> I'd love to see a WML library that could be used not only by Wesntoh and Frogatto. :(
20100616 05:03:49< shadowmaster> <shadowmaster> I am unworthy. I misspelled "Wesnoth".
20100616 05:03:51< shadowmaster> -- #wesnoth-dev, 2009-12-10
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20100616 05:03:59< shadowmaster> PetePorty: I actually added it to our fortunes in SVN
20100616 05:04:27< PetePorty> huh?
20100616 05:04:50< shadowmaster> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/misc/fortunes/wesnoth
20100616 05:05:03< shadowmaster> http://shadowm.rewound.net/wesnoth-fortune.php  for a more "interactive" version
20100616 05:05:06< natasiel> hi
20100616 05:05:26< shadowmaster> hi there, natasiel 
20100616 05:05:55< natasiel> someone knows how to select the current player's leader as speaker in a [message] tag?
20100616 05:06:34< natasiel> else narrator will have more job :)
20100616 05:06:37< shadowmaster> canrecruit,side=yes,$side_number
20100616 05:06:50< shadowmaster> shorthand for canrecruit=yes <newline> side=$side_number
20100616 05:07:15< natasiel> ah! so easy once known, thank you
20100616 05:07:28< shadowmaster> (this assumes that the current event occurs whil $side_number is valid, i.e. during a side turn event)
20100616 05:08:33< natasiel> of course, I guess an [event] recruit can't happens outside of this
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20100616 05:09:13< shadowmaster> I believe it's valid during recruit events
20100616 05:09:29< shadowmaster> more like it should be valid at any time but before the first turn begins
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20100616 05:10:27< natasiel> let's then assert that recruit is always safe
20100616 05:10:44< shadowmaster> yeah
20100616 05:10:53< PetePorty> wait... miyo was like.... me
20100616 05:11:30 * shadowmaster resists the temptation to rant on how these "scoped" variables work at the source level :x
20100616 05:15:51< natasiel> might be my mere incompetence, but from what I see wesnoth wasn't initially meant to be multiplayer
20100616 05:16:14< shadowmaster> that's true
20100616 05:16:36< shadowmaster> multiplayer was developed as a series of hacks on top of the replay system (which was also a series of hacks on top of the gameplay controller system) IIRC
20100616 05:17:17< PetePorty> still can't play wesnoth 0.1
20100616 05:17:18< shadowmaster> er, let's just say that anything introduced between Wesnoth 0.3 and 1.2 was a series of hacks :P
20100616 05:17:27< natasiel> yes, hacks on top of hacks
20100616 05:17:27< PetePorty> lol
20100616 05:17:51< shadowmaster> then the work on dehackifiying it began
20100616 05:18:10< natasiel> still in process tight now?
20100616 05:18:20< shadowmaster> yeah
20100616 05:18:25< natasiel> s/tight/right
20100616 05:18:46< shadowmaster> the AI work for GSoC 2009 is the last major milestone in that regard
20100616 05:19:12< natasiel> GSoC?
20100616 05:19:37< shadowmaster> Google's Summer of Code program
20100616 05:20:13< natasiel> thank you, heard of that
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20100616 05:21:30< PetePorty> I'll make an era called : The era of factions....
20100616 05:23:57< PetePorty> Let's continue adding samples of our silly sense of humor, and perhaps Debian starts including a fortunes-wesnoth package soon!
20100616 05:23:57< PetePorty>   -- Shadow Master
20100616 05:28:08< ancestral> I still would love to see someone do an Ant mod for Wesnoth, like in SimAnt
20100616 05:30:25< natasiel> custom themes with custom buttons, firing custom events
20100616 05:33:21< Blarumyrran> ancestral, an old ant-man sprite http://imagebin.org/101491 (although you probably meant more antlike ants)
20100616 05:33:38< ancestral> Yes
20100616 05:33:43< ancestral> Oh
20100616 05:33:54< ancestral> Different sprite than I'm familiar with
20100616 05:34:23< ancestral> I've talked about doing an ant game, and I have some great ideas too
20100616 05:34:32< ancestral> I have too many things I'm doing though
20100616 05:40:10< natasiel> thank you shadowmaster, it works perfectly
20100616 05:40:45< shadowmaster> np
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20100616 05:57:05< un214> so what exctly is unsafe_lua?
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20100616 09:26:02< Ivanovic> moin
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20100616 10:29:43< Aethaeryn> yay, I am going to build the ultimate programming/compiling/virtualization/ssh machine... :-)
20100616 10:30:24< Aethaeryn> Mac people do graphics and other arts stuff... Windows people do games...
20100616 10:30:27< Aethaeryn> Linux people do compiling.
20100616 10:30:40< Aethaeryn> and trust me, compiling machines are good
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20100616 10:42:09< Ivanovic> compiling machines got to be damn powerful
20100616 10:44:36< Aethaeryn> and I compile Wesnoth
20100616 10:44:42< Aethaeryn> and think about all the effects Wesnoth is adding
20100616 10:44:44< Aethaeryn> all that CPU
20100616 10:44:50< Aethaeryn> and GNOME 3
20100616 10:44:52< Aethaeryn> gotta be GNOME 3 ready
20100616 10:44:55< Aethaeryn> with that mutter
20100616 10:45:09< Aethaeryn> My laptop isn't GNOME 3 ready, will have to use classic GNOME until I get a new one... my desktop will be GNOME 3 ready
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20100616 14:39:24< SekoIdiootti> I want cliffs
20100616 14:39:31< SekoIdiootti> and canyons
20100616 14:39:46< SekoIdiootti> ...Whyyyy isn't there such in Wesnoth? :(
20100616 14:39:48< SekoIdiootti> xD
20100616 14:40:35< SekoIdiootti> I mean, there's been so many awesome cliffs, but just... why aren't they in?
20100616 14:40:37< SekoIdiootti> :(
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20100616 16:26:15< Unnheulu> thespaceinvader, the bob animation thing is meant to be a standing anim?
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20100616 16:26:34< thespaceinvader> Unnheulu: yes
20100616 16:26:39< Unnheulu> Aha
20100616 16:26:45< SekoIdiootti> hi tsi
20100616 16:26:53< thespaceinvader> why do you ask?
20100616 16:26:59< thespaceinvader> afternoon all
20100616 16:26:59 * Unnheulu doesn't know how it looks ingame, but can imagine ten in a row all doing that would look slightly robotic
20100616 16:27:34< Unnheulu> Anyways, like I've said before, I'm not an artist, I don't code wesnoth, so I probably count for very little
20100616 16:27:43< SekoIdiootti> hmm, yeah, I agree
20100616 16:27:49< SekoIdiootti> I mean, about it looking robotic
20100616 16:27:51< SoftlySplinter> if they don't start all at the same time
20100616 16:27:57< SoftlySplinter> could look all right
20100616 16:28:15< SekoIdiootti> but aren't the animations always symmetric?
20100616 16:28:27< thespaceinvader> Unnheulu: the start of the animation would have a random seed
20100616 16:28:34< thespaceinvader> what do you mean by symmetric?
20100616 16:28:47< SekoIdiootti> I meant that they're at the same time
20100616 16:28:51< Unnheulu> thespaceinvader, but still, I kinda think...
20100616 16:28:52< SekoIdiootti> but if not, yay
20100616 16:28:53< Unnheulu> Meh
20100616 16:28:56< thespaceinvader> and possibly, like idle animations, they might only fire off every so often for some units
20100616 16:29:06< Unnheulu> That might make much more sense
20100616 16:29:07< thespaceinvader> put it this way, do you find that problem with bats or ghosts?
20100616 16:29:20< SekoIdiootti> ghosts have animations?
20100616 16:29:22-!- Gambit [~quassel@pa-67-234-73-7.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 16:29:24< Unnheulu> Not really, but those are slightly subtler animations
20100616 16:29:26< SekoIdiootti> ohh oops
20100616 16:29:38< thespaceinvader> bats are way more blatant
20100616 16:29:43< thespaceinvader> they're flapping ;)
20100616 16:29:47< Unnheulu> :D
20100616 16:29:54< SekoIdiootti> you know how I misread that as
20100616 16:29:55< Unnheulu> But I mean...meh I dunno what I mean
20100616 16:30:05< Unnheulu> I'll see it when its done :)
20100616 16:31:00< SekoIdiootti> (in case someone doesn't know, I read it as fapping)
20100616 16:31:02< Unnheulu> (By done I mean ingame, whether thats svn or 1.9)
20100616 16:32:58< SoftlySplinter> hmmm
20100616 16:33:25< Unnheulu> thespaceinvader, are any of the animations in svn, out of curiosity?
20100616 16:33:34-!- Cyber_Rock [~Ankit@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100616 16:33:57< SekoIdiootti> hmm, fapping as spearman's idle animation... :0 ...okay, I'm weird.
20100616 16:33:59< thespaceinvader> the armageddon drake?
20100616 16:34:01< thespaceinvader> not yet
20100616 16:34:15< thespaceinvader> i prefer to wait for all the frames if possible, so as to avoid forgetting anything
20100616 16:34:27< thespaceinvader> and a-red hasn't posted any
20100616 16:34:28< Unnheulu> Nah, the saurian
20100616 16:34:49< thespaceinvader> the saurian?
20100616 16:34:51< thespaceinvader> no
20100616 16:34:55< thespaceinvader> it's not finished yet
20100616 16:34:59< thespaceinvader> >.<
20100616 16:35:53< SoftlySplinter> tsi: do you know what transparency Jet used in the Clasher's spear blur?
20100616 16:35:58< Unnheulu> Ok :P
20100616 16:38:13< thespaceinvader> no idea
20100616 16:38:27< thespaceinvader> usually i either use 60% or opaque
20100616 16:42:09 * Unnheulu is curious as to why IftU isn't mainline
20100616 16:42:11< SoftlySplinter> okay thanks
20100616 16:42:15< Unnheulu> It's massively popular
20100616 16:46:06< Unnheulu> shadowmaster, PetePorty "loves you"
20100616 16:50:15 * Gambit loves that wesnoth is getting standing anims for non floating units
20100616 16:50:28< Gambit> http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=41875
20100616 16:50:49< Gambit> Best. Summer. Ever.
20100616 16:51:00< SekoIdiootti> nope, not the best for me
20100616 16:51:09< SekoIdiootti> but yeah, Wesnoth wise...
20100616 16:51:11< SekoIdiootti> :DDDDDDD
20100616 16:51:13< SekoIdiootti> xD
20100616 16:51:21< Gambit> "Hiring" our artists so they can focus solely on wesnoth and forget silly things like money and sex and cars.
20100616 16:51:24< Gambit> Persistent variables
20100616 16:51:27< Gambit> [tunnel]
20100616 16:51:36< SekoIdiootti> xD
20100616 16:51:38< Gambit> The list was bigger I just can't remember it all right now
20100616 16:51:56< SekoIdiootti> how do we know, if they're getting paid for doing it. Or maybe they get cars. Or maybe they get sex.
20100616 16:52:01< SekoIdiootti> xD
20100616 16:52:03< Gambit> On the flip side I'm getting absolutely nothing done.
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20100616 17:35:21< SoftlySplinter> thespaceinvader: Guard's frames are up
20100616 17:44:22< thespaceinvader> SoftlySplinter: are you cloud o_O
20100616 17:44:46< SekoIdiootti> I thought he was some weirdo :O
20100616 17:45:29< SoftlySplinter> thespaceinvader: indeed I am
20100616 17:45:37-!- Queenie_ [~teodora@178.218.192.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
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20100616 17:45:51< SoftlySplinter> the nick Cloud's taken on most servers
20100616 17:45:51< thespaceinvader> ah, good to know thanks SoftlySplinter 
20100616 17:46:04< SoftlySplinter> no worred :)
20100616 17:46:30< SoftlySplinter> SekoIdiootti: I am some weirdo :P
20100616 17:46:38< SekoIdiootti> well, I'm weirder
20100616 17:46:47< SekoIdiootti> you know who I'm in the forums right?
20100616 17:46:48< SekoIdiootti> xD
20100616 17:47:04< artisticdude> Why don't you hold a weirdo competition? :P
20100616 17:47:16< SekoIdiootti> well, zookeeper would win 6-0
20100616 17:47:30< artisticdude> ??
20100616 17:47:33< SekoIdiootti> lol
20100616 17:47:34< artisticdude> How come?
20100616 17:47:59< SekoIdiootti> hmm, look at some old logs
20100616 17:48:04< SekoIdiootti> if they're stored still
20100616 17:48:15< SekoIdiootti> (I don't know if he was impersonating me though)
20100616 17:48:18< artisticdude> How old?
20100616 17:48:18< SekoIdiootti> but I don't believe he was
20100616 17:48:25< thespaceinvader> posted SoftlySplinter 
20100616 17:48:26< SekoIdiootti> hmm, probably month, or two
20100616 17:48:41< thespaceinvader> SekoIdiootti: woodmouse iirc
20100616 17:48:49< SekoIdiootti> yeah
20100616 17:48:51< SekoIdiootti> lol
20100616 17:48:55< SoftlySplinter> ah woodmouse
20100616 17:49:00< zookeeper> yeah he's so weird lol
20100616 17:49:17< zookeeper> all the cool kids are weird and like crazy lol
20100616 17:49:32< artisticdude> woodmouse loves 'lol' :P
20100616 17:49:34< SoftlySplinter> thespaceinvader: will do
20100616 17:49:39< SoftlySplinter> lol :P
20100616 17:50:06< zookeeper> lol it's so lol to lol like a lol
20100616 17:50:11< SekoIdiootti> :0
20100616 17:50:31< artisticdude> @SekoIdiootti: you ought to try ROFL at some point, just to break the monotony. :P
20100616 17:50:52< SekoIdiootti> weeeeell, rofl is weird
20100616 17:51:35< artisticdude> but you said you're weird too?
--- Log opened Wed Jun 16 18:18:38 2010
20100616 18:18:46-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 18:18:46-!- Topic for #wesnoth: Wesnoth User Channel | wesnoth.org | http://addons.wesnoth.org | latest stable version: 1.8.2 | public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100616 18:18:46-!- Topic set by Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] [Wed Jun  2 11:28:17 2010]
20100616 18:18:46[Users #wesnoth]
20100616 18:18:46[ ABCD           ] [ Espreon     ] [ Kivi        ] [ sevis          ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ Aethaeryn      ] [ ettin       ] [ koan        ] [ shadowmaster   ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ ancestral      ] [ eyerouge    ] [ linease     ] [ shikadibot     ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ AnMaster       ] [ fendrin     ] [ lobby       ] [ Smar           ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ apoi           ] [ FireFly     ] [ MadMerlin2  ] [ SoftlySplinter ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ artisticdude   ] [ Gambit      ] [ namad7      ] [ thespaceinvader] 
20100616 18:18:46[ BenUrban       ] [ grzywacz    ] [ ne0futur    ] [ tparcina       ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ chris|         ] [ harryBer    ] [ Necrosporus ] [ Tucos          ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ crimson_penguin] [ Hellrider   ] [ nguyenatto  ] [ unimatrix0     ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ DiRaven        ] [ Hulavuta    ] [ olik        ] [ Unnheulu       ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ drry           ] [ Ivanovic    ] [ pyshee      ] [ Vetinari       ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ elias          ] [ John_R      ] [ Rhonda      ] [ wesbot         ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ Elvish_Pillager] [ KamusHadenes] [ Sacho       ] [ Xjs|moonshine  ] 
20100616 18:18:46[ erl            ] [ Ken_Oh      ] [ SekoIdiootti] [ zookeeper      ] 
20100616 18:18:46-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 56 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 56 normal]
20100616 18:18:46-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org
20100616 18:18:48< Aethaeryn> assembly required, like Ikea or Lego
20100616 18:18:51< thespaceinvader> admittedly not terribly clearly
20100616 18:18:56-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 18:19:03-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006
20100616 18:19:10< Aethaeryn> and come on, how many legos have 8 pieces or so? very simple
20100616 18:19:12-!- knotwork [~markm@142.177.232.37] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 18:19:29< SekoIdiootti> I thought all beards had to have dwarves
20100616 18:19:31< SekoIdiootti> ...oops.
20100616 18:19:33< SekoIdiootti> Wrong way
20100616 18:19:41< SekoIdiootti> dwarves had to have bears
20100616 18:19:43< SekoIdiootti> *beards
20100616 18:19:45< ancestral> Hehe
20100616 18:19:53< ancestral> Depends on who you ask
20100616 18:19:55-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth was synced in 76 secs
20100616 18:19:58< SoftlySplinter> thespaceinvader: frames just going up
20100616 18:20:00< ancestral> In LotR folklore, yes
20100616 18:20:06< SekoIdiootti> hmmm
20100616 18:20:07< ancestral> In Wesnoth folklore, no
20100616 18:20:10< SekoIdiootti> then...
20100616 18:20:18< SekoIdiootti> HAIRLESS DWARVES!!!
20100616 18:20:24< thespaceinvader> NO THEY FRELLING DON'T DAMNIT
20100616 18:20:33< SekoIdiootti> though we don't see in their pants
20100616 18:20:37< ancestral> Albino dwarves? Don't know about that
20100616 18:20:55< thespaceinvader> for... frell's... sake, we have said SO MANY TIMES now that Dwarves in wesnoth do not all have beard
20100616 18:20:56< thespaceinvader> s
20100616 18:21:05< ancestral> Okay okay
20100616 18:21:10< ancestral> It's all good
20100616 18:21:12< SekoIdiootti> ok
20100616 18:21:15< ancestral> :-D
20100616 18:21:16< thespaceinvader> these guys are a completely diffferent culture, and I wanted very FEW of them to have beards
20100616 18:21:26< SekoIdiootti> hmm, cool
20100616 18:21:30< ancestral> Haha
20100616 18:21:34< thespaceinvader> even in LotR I don't recall anything that said they had to have beards
20100616 18:21:36< SekoIdiootti> though I still see them as small humans
20100616 18:21:40< thespaceinvader> that's Discworld FFS
20100616 18:21:46< ancestral> thespaceinvader: The female dwarves have bears
20100616 18:21:49< ancestral> *bears too
20100616 18:21:51< ancestral> wow
20100616 18:21:58< ancestral> Can't type either
20100616 18:21:59< thespaceinvader> well, they basically are small, albeit stocky, humans
20100616 18:22:11< thespaceinvader> and no, that's only mentioned in the film iirc
20100616 18:22:23< thespaceinvader> although female dwarves with bears would be awesome
20100616 18:22:46< ancestral> But, LotR, although it certainly has inspired many fantasy games, cannot and is not the reference used to determine all things these days
20100616 18:22:49< ancestral> ;-)
20100616 18:23:03< ancestral> Yes, I agree
20100616 18:23:04< ancestral> Bears
20100616 18:23:16< ancestral> Dwarf Bear riders, perhaps
20100616 18:23:21< SekoIdiootti> :0
20100616 18:23:33< SekoIdiootti> YEAAAAAAH
20100616 18:24:05< thespaceinvader> http://www.cold-moon.com/images/Motivators/Equipment/Bear%20Cavalry.jpg
20100616 18:24:28< ancestral> Yes, exactly
20100616 18:24:28< SekoIdiootti> xD
20100616 18:24:43< Gambit> Is it a sin that I can't decide whether to put my bible on the fiction or nonfiction section?
20100616 18:24:48< thespaceinvader> SoftlySplinter: i'll test and commit now
20100616 18:25:14< SoftlySplinter> cool cheers :)
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20100616 18:25:27< SoftlySplinter> I should really test my own animations ¬_¬
20100616 18:25:48< SekoIdiootti> Gambit: Put it in the trash can (joking, I hope I do'nt offend you)
20100616 18:27:00< SekoIdiootti> Uh-oh, it's the silence of death
20100616 18:27:09< ancestral> Haha
20100616 18:27:49< ancestral> Gambit: I've always wondered — what kind of gambit are you?
20100616 18:28:21-!- PetePorty [~Pete@pc-193-248-120-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 18:28:40< ancestral> Queen's, king's, Latvian, Greco-Counter, etc.
20100616 18:29:12< PetePorty> <PetePorty> Good Morning guys!
20100616 18:29:13< PetePorty> <PetePorty> Chile won!
20100616 18:32:32< Gambit> ancestral: The telescopic staff weilding, exploding poker card throwing, kind.
20100616 18:32:44< ancestral> Nice
20100616 18:32:47< Gambit> With the coolest looking brown trenchcoat you've ever seen.
20100616 18:33:03< thespaceinvader> SoftlySplinter: all looks good, but we really could do with a south one
20100616 18:33:11< thespaceinvader> could probably share some of the prep frames though
20100616 18:33:22< thespaceinvader> ideally north and northeast as well, but that can wait
20100616 18:33:38< SoftlySplinter> okie-doke
20100616 18:33:41< SoftlySplinter> I shall get on it
20100616 18:35:10< SekoIdiootti> I made a lousy frankie... Dwarvish Boar Rider. Not bear, as I couldn't find any bears and... I was too bored to make one.
20100616 18:35:11< SekoIdiootti> http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss6/Woodmouse-/dwarvish-boar-rider.png
20100616 18:35:46 * SoftlySplinter fires up GIMP once again
20100616 18:37:45< Gambit> the GIMP truly does have to be fired up.
20100616 18:37:56< Gambit> Industry leading game engines load faster.
20100616 18:38:35< SoftlySplinter> indeed
20100616 18:38:50< SoftlySplinter> but it's a brilliant tool
20100616 18:39:03< Gambit> Game engines like Unreal Engine 3 (advertisment) :o
20100616 18:39:17-!- SgtFlame|Work [~trichards@67.228.184.7-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 18:39:18< SekoIdiootti> lol
20100616 18:41:19< thespaceinvader> SoftlySplinter: not to soudn demanding, but if you fancied putting a throwing anim together for the guard, that would be cool too
20100616 18:41:23< thespaceinvader> the melee is committed
20100616 18:41:25< thespaceinvader> btw
20100616 18:41:37< thespaceinvader> again, a number of the prep frames from the melee would be reusable
20100616 18:43:13< SoftlySplinter> thespaceinvader: yeah was just thing along the same lines
20100616 18:43:32< Unnheulu> SoftlySplinter, your cloud?
20100616 18:44:04< Gambit> His cloud what?
20100616 18:44:16< SoftlySplinter> yes I'm Cloud
20100616 18:44:20< Unnheulu> Cool
20100616 18:44:22< thespaceinvader> Unnheulu: you were in the channel when i asked that an hour ago ;)
20100616 18:44:31< Unnheulu> thespaceinvader, true, but I was afk :)
20100616 18:45:43< PetePorty> sexy neww drake portraits
20100616 18:45:48 * PetePorty is feeelin' good
20100616 18:47:23< Unnheulu> Your from aberystwyth
20100616 18:47:27< Unnheulu> ?
20100616 18:48:17< SoftlySplinter> Unnheulu: I'm at Aber uni
20100616 18:48:24< SoftlySplinter> or at least was until two weeks ago
20100616 18:48:50< Unnheulu> Why Aberystwyth though? It's like the *most* remote uni ever :P
20100616 18:49:17< Unnheulu> Bad emphasising :/
20100616 18:49:36< SoftlySplinter> great course, great rivers for kayaking, most pubs/mile^2 per person for a uni town, great place
20100616 18:49:48< Unnheulu> Even more so than Cardiff?
20100616 18:50:04 * Unnheulu hasn't been to aberystwyth :P
20100616 18:50:04< SoftlySplinter> I'd never of gotten into Cardiff
20100616 18:50:27< SoftlySplinter> oh and lowest crime rate pretty much anywhere in the UK
20100616 18:50:42< Unnheulu> Iirc cardiff has the highest violent crime in England and Wales
20100616 18:50:51< SoftlySplinter> wouldn't surprise me
20100616 18:51:01< Unnheulu> Dunno anyone affected by it, although I'm just in its LUZ
20100616 18:51:54< artisticdude> Aaaand I'm back.
20100616 18:52:01< Unnheulu> artisticdude, bug in the traitor :P
20100616 18:52:10-!- SekoIdiootti [~chatzilla@cs148185.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]]
20100616 18:52:12< artisticdude> What?
20100616 18:52:13< Unnheulu> If you upgrade the cavalry dude then he can't move in mountains
20100616 18:53:09< artisticdude> Oh, that... that's because I didn't take into account the leveling-up process when I created the campaign. I'm fixing that in the next version.
20100616 18:53:30< artisticdude> I look back on that campaign and just cringe.
20100616 18:53:38< artisticdude> Although there were some good parts, as well.
20100616 18:53:53 * Unnheulu has enjoyed to the first chasing one
20100616 18:54:11< Unnheulu> Didn't play the second chasing one, the huge mass of units scared me :D
20100616 18:54:24< Unnheulu> It's more fun than Vix tbh
20100616 18:54:31< artisticdude> Typical n00b mistake.
20100616 18:54:32< Unnheulu> (I've enjoyed it so far)
20100616 18:55:03< artisticdude> Better than Vix? Hmm.
20100616 18:55:17< Unnheulu> I haven't played past gaining the fort though >.>
20100616 18:55:22< Unnheulu> I cringe at large maps^^
20100616 18:55:56< artisticdude> I should probably resize the map at some point, but that campaign's kinda on hiatus for now.
20100616 18:56:05< Unnheulu> Only thing stopping from winning Elvish Dynasty is the last massive map
20100616 18:56:51< artisticdude> I'm considering creating an era (okay, faction) of Wesnoth forum members. What do you think about that?
20100616 18:57:03< Unnheulu> Hah
20100616 18:57:06< Unnheulu> Who'd be in it?
20100616 18:57:37< artisticdude> Anyone with a reasonable forum name (names like mine wouldn't really fit). They'd have to sign up, of course.
20100616 18:57:48< Hulavuta> back
20100616 18:57:51-!- ABCD [~abcd@gentoo/developer/abcd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100616 18:57:53 * Unnheulu feels his nick isn't reasonable ;P
20100616 18:57:59< Hulavuta> I have returned. /starcraft
20100616 18:58:09< Unnheulu> Only means anything to welsh speakers
20100616 18:58:24< artisticdude> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30286
20100616 18:58:34< SoftlySplinter> Unnheulu: oh it's Welsh is it?
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20100616 18:59:12< artisticdude> Actually, your name would probably work, since it seems more like an 'actual name' than mine.
20100616 18:59:43< Unnheulu> SoftlySplinter, totally
20100616 18:59:56< SoftlySplinter> Unnheulu: I haven't learnt the lingo
20100616 19:00:04< Unnheulu> Heh
20100616 19:00:06< artisticdude> "The artisticdude does 1-4 pierce damage against the Drake Burner
20100616 19:00:13< Unnheulu> I'm still not great at it
20100616 19:00:31< artisticdude> Welsh legends and folklore are neat.
20100616 19:00:33-!- Samwise [~Samwise@p57B197E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 19:00:45< Hulavuta> Well, artisticdude is a title, and Unnheulu is a name
20100616 19:00:59< artisticdude> Precisely.
20100616 19:01:00< Hulavuta> Because Artistic and Dude are words, and Unnheulu is not
20100616 19:01:09< Gambit> They be welsh words.
20100616 19:01:57< artisticdude> The first is English, the second is good old American... slang? Cowboy-speak?
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20100616 19:02:28< artisticdude> I kind of regret choosing that as my username, since I'm not all that 'artistic'.
20100616 19:02:42< artisticdude> But it's too late to change it now.
20100616 19:02:48< Unnheulu> It's not
20100616 19:02:52< Hulavuta> You can ask shadowmaster to change it
20100616 19:03:03< Unnheulu> thespaceinvader and shadowmaster are admins
20100616 19:03:12< artisticdude> Yes, but then people will get confused about who I am.
20100616 19:03:15< thespaceinvader> mm
20100616 19:03:23< thespaceinvader> besides, you do yourself down too much
20100616 19:03:29< thespaceinvader> you are an artist
20100616 19:03:33< thespaceinvader> and you are improving
20100616 19:03:43< Unnheulu> artisticdude, people didn't seem to confuse me too much when I persuaded shadowmaster to change it
20100616 19:04:17< Hulavuta> Yeah, just leave your avatar for a while, because people recognize avatars before usernames
20100616 19:04:22< artisticdude> Thanks. But still, I feel it's a bit... vain, or something.
20100616 19:04:32< artisticdude> Meh.
20100616 19:04:45< Hulavuta> Okay, your choice
20100616 19:05:06< artisticdude> Sleepwalker is sure kicking some serious butt with his work on the saurians.
20100616 19:05:17< Hulavuta> Yeah.
20100616 19:05:57< Hulavuta> But what is the bob for?
20100616 19:06:11< Hulavuta> Is it to replace idle or is it like his "breath" thing?
20100616 19:06:12< artisticdude> I just hope I can contribute to mainline in some way before everything's done. :P
20100616 19:06:23< Unnheulu> Everything will never be done
20100616 19:06:36< Unnheulu> One day it'll have like multiple attack animations and stuff :D
20100616 19:06:54< Hulavuta> I'm hoping my campaign will go mainline or at least go on the iPhone port if it ever changes to 1.8. I don't know which one is more unlikely
20100616 19:07:03< artisticdude> True. Variations of the same attack... like the thief.
20100616 19:07:31< artisticdude> I wish I could get the iPod port. :(
20100616 19:07:35< thespaceinvader> Hulavuta: no, it's not to replace idle
20100616 19:07:52< Hulavuta> So it's like a breath thing?
20100616 19:08:07< Unnheulu> thespaceinvader, can't it be more subtle though>
20100616 19:08:11< Unnheulu> s/>/?/
20100616 19:08:23< Hulavuta> It might get kind of annoying if it's going constantly
20100616 19:08:41< Unnheulu> Over the summer I hope to make a standalone map editor which lets you add items and stuff
20100616 19:08:45< thespaceinvader> wait and see how it looks
20100616 19:08:52< Unnheulu> And it'll have an option to upload the maps to the server
20100616 19:09:08< Unnheulu> (That's what I said earlier ;))
20100616 19:09:11< thespaceinvader> you can always turn it off, i suspect it will be under the same flag that allows you to turn of idle animations
20100616 19:09:23< thespaceinvader> on slower machines it might cause issues
20100616 19:09:39< Gambit> standing anims <3
20100616 19:10:18< artisticdude> It probably won't be practical on the iPhone port (if the port is ever upgraded to the version that will contain the bob animation).
20100616 19:10:32< Hulavuta> Is it more unlikely for my campaign to make mainline or to get on the iPhone port, (if it ever goes 1.8)
20100616 19:11:02< Unnheulu> Mainline
20100616 19:11:49< artisticdude> Well, Kyle's trying to release a new campaign every month, so he might become desperate sometime within the next... couple years or so.
20100616 19:12:32< Hulavuta> lol
20100616 19:12:44< Hulavuta> Unnheulu: Why mainline? 
20100616 19:12:57< Unnheulu> What artisticdude said
20100616 19:13:01< Hulavuta> ok
20100616 19:14:07< artisticdude> Oh yay, Cloud's animation got committed. =)
20100616 19:14:31< Hulavuta> Unnheulu: Besides the first level, did you try any of the other scenarios in my campaign?
20100616 19:14:40< Unnheulu> No :D
20100616 19:15:04< Hulavuta> ....
20100616 19:15:07< Hulavuta> :'(
20100616 19:15:43< artisticdude> Hulavuta: when your campaign is done are you planning to leave the forums?
20100616 19:16:06< Hulavuta> why?
20100616 19:16:25< artisticdude> Your wiki page seemed to give that impression.
20100616 19:16:28< Hulavuta> I have another idea for another campaign or two, but I might lose interest
20100616 19:16:40< Hulavuta> Well, I have pretty big ambitions.
20100616 19:17:15< Hulavuta> I don't think my campaign is really good
20100616 19:17:25< artisticdude> Your wiki page reads "I am secretly hoping it will become super popular and therefore make me a kind of "one-hit-wonder" and then I will leave and become a legend. (Hahahaha)"
20100616 19:17:37< Hulavuta> I didn't really give enough character development to many guys
20100616 19:17:43< Hulavuta> Hopefully someone can help me with that
20100616 19:17:49< artisticdude> You're campaign is good.
20100616 19:18:19< artisticdude> Right now you just want to get the structure complete, you can go back and flesh it out more when you're finished.
20100616 19:18:24< Hulavuta> I guess
20100616 19:18:28< Hulavuta> But I have way too many updates
20100616 19:18:32< artisticdude> *Your*
20100616 19:19:11< artisticdude> I wonder if the new iOS update will affect how Wesnoth runs on the i devices.
20100616 19:19:59< Hulavuta> Seeing as Dragonchampion doesn't think an update to War of Terrador that actually allows you to play isn't important, is it really a good update when I make one change to the brute?
20100616 19:20:31-!- tparcina [~tparcina@cisco16.fesb.hr] has left #wesnoth []
20100616 19:21:43< Hulavuta> Anyone still here?
20100616 19:23:16< Aethaeryn> XD
20100616 19:23:19< Aethaeryn> the spammers are getting lazier
20100616 19:23:32< Aethaeryn> this "Toyota Online Promo" lottery says I won 750000.00
20100616 19:23:38< Aethaeryn> it doesn't even give a currency like the other ones
20100616 19:25:18< artisticdude> I've 'won' at least three vehicles this year. Wonder what they do with all those unclaimed cars. :P
20100616 19:25:33< Unnheulu> Does anyone know how blitting the hexes works?
20100616 19:25:43< Unnheulu> ie offsets and stuff
20100616 19:26:04< Unnheulu> (like isometric is just /2, wuts  hexxes :D)
20100616 19:26:08< Unnheulu> s/x//
20100616 19:26:53< Aethaeryn> artisticdude: they just keep mailing the runners up
20100616 19:26:54< Aethaeryn> duh
20100616 19:26:57< Aethaeryn> that's why it seems like spam
20100616 19:26:59< Aethaeryn> so many unclaimed
20100616 19:27:06< Hulavuta> I find it funny when people make topics in campaign or art or music called: "My campaign" "Cool Art" or "A Song"
20100616 19:27:26< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: that would make a nice song though
20100616 19:27:40< Hulavuta> What would?
20100616 19:27:47< artisticdude> Guess I'll never make much a spammer. :P
20100616 19:27:53< Aethaeryn> "My campaign: cool art, a song"
20100616 19:28:03< Hulavuta> How?
20100616 19:28:03< Gambit> Hulavuta: refer them to this beastly thread: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=28023
20100616 19:28:04< artisticdude> XD
20100616 19:28:11< Gambit> (jk. don't)
20100616 19:28:19< Gambit> They'd probably bump it.
20100616 19:29:24< Hulavuta> Also, I got a 73 on my Geometry final :-(
20100616 19:29:32< Aethaeryn> final?
20100616 19:29:49< Aethaeryn> I'm already into the third week of my summer class
20100616 19:30:09< Hulavuta> I know, I took the final like a week and a half ago
20100616 19:30:19< Aethaeryn> honestly, 2/3 of high school is babysitting
20100616 19:30:25< Aethaeryn> 1/6 is socialising
20100616 19:30:28< Aethaeryn> and 1/6 is learning
20100616 19:30:38< Aethaeryn> college is totally different, you might even learn that that fraction adds up ;)
20100616 19:31:21< artisticdude> I'm taking my 3rd geometry course over the summer, as well as doing latin all summer (but then, I'm home-schooled)
20100616 19:31:34< Aethaeryn> psssh
20100616 19:31:41< Aethaeryn> who wants to actually learn?
20100616 19:31:46-!- G-Lo [~Prop@unaffiliated/g-lo] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 19:32:00< artisticdude> Our first geometry course was a total lose, as was the second. This last one is actually good.
20100616 19:32:49< artisticdude> The first had us translating the problems from russian before we could even solve the problems. It wasn't even a Russian textbook!
20100616 19:33:16< artisticdude> The second was just... weird. As in, very very weird.
20100616 19:33:17< Hulavuta> I'm still in Middle School.
20100616 19:33:23< Hulavuta> Well, not anymore
20100616 19:33:30< Hulavuta> Because, it's summer, but, you know
20100616 19:35:35< Hulavuta> okay..
20100616 19:35:38< artisticdude> I've got a fencing tournament coming up this weekend. It's going to be murder. I'm unranked in this particular weapon, and a fourth of all the competitors will be ranked among the top 10% in the nation.
20100616 19:36:01< Hulavuta> I'm thinking about boxing
20100616 19:36:15< artisticdude> Broken bones and noses.
20100616 19:36:30< PetePorty> I'm thinking about computers....
20100616 19:36:38< Hulavuta> OH FUCK IT'S PETEPORTY
20100616 19:36:38< PetePorty> mainly play on them....
20100616 19:36:41< Aethaeryn> I was thinking about doing a sport...
20100616 19:36:42< PetePorty> ;)
20100616 19:36:44< Hulavuta> Yep, still no censors
20100616 19:36:48< artisticdude> Ouch.
20100616 19:36:48< artisticdude> But at least you get big muscles.
20100616 19:36:52< Aethaeryn> but once you get past a certain point in chess, it's all memorization
20100616 19:36:57< Aethaeryn> so I don't really want to put that much time into it
20100616 19:37:11< PetePorty> chess sucks....
20100616 19:37:15< Aethaeryn> !!!
20100616 19:37:17< Aethaeryn> those are fighting words
20100616 19:37:30< artisticdude> I've never really gotten into chess that much (considering I've got three chess apps on my iPod).
20100616 19:37:37< Aethaeryn> my school's three big sports (in order of winnings I think): chess, lacrosse, basketball
20100616 19:37:44< PetePorty> I beat all people I played with at the age of 10, therefore, it was really boring and I dropped it.
20100616 19:37:45< artisticdude> Although in my previous life I was a chess master. :P
20100616 19:37:49< Aethaeryn> chess is by and far the strongest team my school has
20100616 19:38:20< PetePorty> I think in my previous life I was a carrot
20100616 19:38:35< Hulavuta> I'm not a Budhist
20100616 19:38:43< artisticdude> Nor am I.
20100616 19:38:52< Hulavuta> Even though everyone auto assumes I am because I'm an asian
20100616 19:39:13< Hulavuta> And then they're surprised when another asian wearing a Buddha necklace is Buddhist
20100616 19:39:27< artisticdude> Buddhists and Asians don't automatically come together in my mind. :S
20100616 19:39:45< Hulavuta> What do you see me as?
20100616 19:39:55< PetePorty> you are asian?
20100616 19:39:57< Aethaeryn> anyway apparently our chesss team continually beats 3 texas teams in really prominent championships
20100616 19:40:00< artisticdude> A long-dead dinosaur's bones.
20100616 19:40:01< Hulavuta> yes i
20100616 19:40:05< Hulavuta> am asian
20100616 19:40:13< PetePorty> hmmm....
20100616 19:40:13< Hulavuta> No I mean religion wise
20100616 19:40:22< Hulavuta> What do you see me as?
20100616 19:40:27< Aethaeryn> we've won 5 of the last 9 chess championships.
20100616 19:40:28< PetePorty> u r a jew
20100616 19:40:30< artisticdude> protestant? Agnostic? 
20100616 19:40:31< Aethaeryn> my university
20100616 19:40:33< Hulavuta> ...lol
20100616 19:40:34< PetePorty> I can tell
20100616 19:40:38< artisticdude> 9? Wow.
20100616 19:40:39< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: you're a font, btw.
20100616 19:40:41< Hulavuta> No, I'm not a Jew
20100616 19:40:50< PetePorty> yes you are
20100616 19:41:00< artisticdude> Ahem. >>
20100616 19:41:04< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 19:41:09< Hulavuta> Just because I eat bagels doesn't make me a jew.... >.>
20100616 19:41:15< PetePorty> it does
20100616 19:41:25< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: but I eat pasta sometimes and I'm part Italian
20100616 19:41:32< Aethaeryn> I was even at an Olive Garden last week :o
20100616 19:41:35< PetePorty> hey, whay is Dave more interested in his platformer pet project than in wesnoth?
20100616 19:41:58< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: because when you're paid $0 you get to do whatever interests you
20100616 19:41:59< Hulavuta> I eat Pasta too, and Hamburgers, and Tacos, everything except Chinese and Japanese. Does that make me any less asian?
20100616 19:42:04< artisticdude> Because Wesnoth runs by itself more or less (well, not by itself, but you know...)
20100616 19:42:05< Aethaeryn> and because Wesnoth kinda manages itself without him
20100616 19:42:09< Aethaeryn> damn it, artisticdude 
20100616 19:42:11< Aethaeryn> stole my line
20100616 19:42:13-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100616 19:42:25< artisticdude> :P
20100616 19:42:27< Hulavuta> Doesn't Dave release the versions though?
20100616 19:42:29 * Aethaeryn shakes fist
20100616 19:42:30< PetePorty> but... Wesnoth is way more cool
20100616 19:42:35< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: no Ivanovic releases the versions
20100616 19:42:37< Aethaeryn> release manager
20100616 19:42:39 * artisticdude runs away
20100616 19:42:40< Aethaeryn> please lurk moar
20100616 19:42:49< Hulavuta> So why is he called Lord of Translations?
20100616 19:42:52< Aethaeryn> and you'll notice titles and repeating patterns of who posts where and shows up 
20100616 19:42:59< Aethaeryn> because you can do more than one thing?
20100616 19:43:07< Aethaeryn> and because a lot of the release has to do with translations too
20100616 19:43:15< Hulavuta> Yeah, Ivonavic's posts made it seem like he was in charge kinda, but his title threw me off
20100616 19:43:22< PetePorty> for instance, I can pee and sing at the same time
20100616 19:43:24< Hulavuta> He needs two titles (unless he does more)
20100616 19:43:37< Aethaeryn> there isn't a way to give two titles >.<
20100616 19:43:44< artisticdude> Frogatto is fun.
20100616 19:43:47< Hulavuta> Why not just have it in the title?
20100616 19:43:56< Hulavuta> Lord of Translations and .....
20100616 19:43:59< Hulavuta> Anyway,
20100616 19:44:11< Aethaeryn> why am I "Wiki wizzz" (moderator there) with the pink tag of a (Latin) translator?
20100616 19:44:14< PetePorty> I played frogatto for like 10 secs and erased it from my computer
20100616 19:44:42< artisticdude> I wish it was available for iPod... it will be eventually, but for a price.
20100616 19:44:45< Hulavuta> OKAY I GET IT FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST STOp
20100616 19:44:56< Aethaeryn> I'm sorry.
20100616 19:45:04< Aethaeryn> I will never stop talking until everyone is logical and rational.
20100616 19:45:20< artisticdude> That... could take a while.
20100616 19:45:32< artisticdude> You might want to stock up on cough drops.
20100616 19:45:35< PetePorty> hahahaha
20100616 19:45:39< PetePorty> good one Aethaeryn 
20100616 19:45:46< Aethaeryn> I was explaining earlier on how energy isn't a problem.... nor is overpopulation
20100616 19:45:50< Hulavuta> I was just assuming that releasing the versions of the game was more important than head of translations
20100616 19:45:52< Aethaeryn> Using the rather simple economics I have been educated in
20100616 19:46:09< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: he handles translations every day and releases once every few weeks?
20100616 19:46:10< PetePorty> overpopulation IS a probblem
20100616 19:46:20< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: okay... economics lecture coming.
20100616 19:46:21< artisticdude> Since he has two titles, do you think he'd mind giving one to me? :P
20100616 19:47:00< Hulavuta> MP anyone?'
20100616 19:47:05< PetePorty> so.... you say we can have 200 times more people and still live exactly the same way we are right now?
20100616 19:47:06< Aethaeryn> as the price of something goes up, alternatives become viable. thus, when oil goes in price, more expensive means of extracting oil are profitable and you get oil from exotic new places... also, alternative energy is expensive compared to oil, but at some point...
20100616 19:47:09< Hulavuta> OR should I work on my campaign
20100616 19:47:26< artisticdude> I would, but Latin calls...
20100616 19:47:28< Aethaeryn> at some point clean energy will be cheaper than oil, so everyone will switch en masse
20100616 19:47:28< PetePorty> go work Hula
20100616 19:47:37< artisticdude> hard as I try to ignore it.
20100616 19:47:38< Hulavuta> I'm on vacation Porty
20100616 19:47:41< Aethaeryn> problem averted naturally, no intervention... maybe some subsidies
20100616 19:47:51< PetePorty> go work on you campaign
20100616 19:47:54< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: now, this principle can also apply to real estate.
20100616 19:48:01< Hulavuta> I can work between turns
20100616 19:48:08< artisticdude> You're on vacation as in taking a break from your campaign? Or as at the beach sort of thing?
20100616 19:48:14< Aethaeryn> there's the same supply of land (duh) and an increased demand of land when population goes up, right, PetePorty?
20100616 19:48:27< Hulavuta> I mean I'm on Summer break
20100616 19:48:31< Aethaeryn> people need to live and work places, after all
20100616 19:48:32< PetePorty> BUT while oil is really expensive, and clean energy ain't profitable yet, it would be aweful
20100616 19:48:37< artisticdude> Ah.
20100616 19:48:41< Hulavuta> Is anyone here from USA?
20100616 19:48:58< artisticdude> Oil is really cheap. Just look at all of it floating around in the Gulf of Mexico.
20100616 19:48:58 * Gambit raises hand
20100616 19:49:02< artisticdude> I'm from the US
20100616 19:49:12< Hulavuta>  Should we drill in Alaska?
20100616 19:49:15< PetePorty> hi Gambit
20100616 19:49:18< artisticdude> No.
20100616 19:49:19< Gambit> Hulavuta: Yes.
20100616 19:49:21< PetePorty> you wantr to talk?
20100616 19:49:27< Hulavuta> I want to drill in Alaska
20100616 19:49:30< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: so... is that a correct assessment? overpopulation as viewed as a real estate problem (there's more dimensions, but economics simplifies it to one thing) is an increased demand for land, and a fixed supply of land...
20100616 19:49:38< PetePorty> Hulavuta, well, you shouldn't, you are just a kid
20100616 19:49:45< Aethaeryn> so price goes up for real estate, since people need to live and work places, and there's more people wanting to use the same fixed land.
20100616 19:50:02< Gambit> Oil should only be used for lubrication.
20100616 19:50:06< artisticdude> It depends on what you mean by 'we'. Americans, yes. VP and foreign oil companies... heck no.
20100616 19:50:07< Gambit> It's time to get our power elsewhere.
20100616 19:50:08< PetePorty> look, theres a point...
20100616 19:50:10< PetePorty> wtf?
20100616 19:50:11< Aethaeryn> so...
20100616 19:50:22< PetePorty> where population can't keep goin up
20100616 19:50:29< Aethaeryn> when there's a sufficient amount of people, buying property will be so expensive...
20100616 19:50:29-!- martin___ [~martin@f048076069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 19:50:39< Aethaeryn> that comparatively, living in exotic locations will be cheaper.
20100616 19:50:50< artisticdude> Overpopulation is myth.
20100616 19:51:02< PetePorty> ok, but at some point, every single cm of land will be occupied
20100616 19:51:16< PetePorty> we would start building up
20100616 19:51:16< Hulavuta> PetePorty: Okay, I don't want to go over there and drill, but I want the drillers to drill. Damn literals...
20100616 19:51:16< Aethaeryn> so, let's say there's a fixed price of living in the ocean (boat, offshore platform like Sealand or oil rig or whatever).
20100616 19:51:19< PetePorty> or down
20100616 19:51:20< Aethaeryn> and right now it's very, very expensive.
20100616 19:51:26< Aethaeryn> comparative.
20100616 19:51:33< Aethaeryn> about the same price as living in a big city like New York
20100616 19:51:49< Aethaeryn> well, 71% of the ocean's surface can theoretically be settled eventually.
20100616 19:51:51< PetePorty> and we would eventually be completely full
20100616 19:51:58< Aethaeryn> and, although right now it's the price of living in a big city...
20100616 19:52:04< PetePorty> so many people, there wouldn't be enough resources
20100616 19:52:08< Aethaeryn> as population goes up, it'll be middle class affordable.
20100616 19:52:11< Gambit> 50 minutes until potential SWBF3 announcement
20100616 19:52:20< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: that's just one dimension solved.
20100616 19:52:37< Aethaeryn> where do people go when land is too expensive? the less desirable places like deserts and the ocean surface.
20100616 19:52:39< Hulavuta> Can anyone here explain to me when a reference becomes an infringment>?
20100616 19:53:01< Gambit> Hulavuta: When someone decides to sue.
20100616 19:53:05< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: are there other problems with overpopulation?
20100616 19:53:07< Hulavuta> XD
20100616 19:53:10< PetePorty> a lot
20100616 19:53:14< PetePorty> already told you
20100616 19:53:22< Gambit> Speaking of which: http://chaosedge.wordpress.com/
20100616 19:53:22< PetePorty> u even read wht I write?
20100616 19:53:25< Aethaeryn> well, sorry, I am an amateur economist.
20100616 19:53:35< Aethaeryn> have to deal with two issues at a time, one being population.
20100616 19:53:39< Aethaeryn> another resource?
20100616 19:53:39< Hulavuta> PetePorty: Can you stop treating me like an 8 year old?
20100616 19:53:42< Aethaeryn> (land is a resource)
20100616 19:53:56< PetePorty> Hula.... but you ARE an 8 year old
20100616 19:54:24< Hulavuta> We need to have a Wesnoth skype room
20100616 19:54:25< Gambit> PetePorty: You ARE a 16 year old
20100616 19:54:37< Gambit> *15?
20100616 19:54:44< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: btw, there's a near infinite supply of "land"
20100616 19:54:52< Gambit> THE MOON!
20100616 19:54:55< Aethaeryn> since technology will increase and comparative prices will go down for new areas to settle.
20100616 19:54:55< Gambit> Time to colonize.
20100616 19:54:58< Aethaeryn> yes, really.
20100616 19:55:05< Hulavuta> That reminds me of what my teacher said last year
20100616 19:55:09< PetePorty> Aethaeryn, I too think overpopulation is  not as bad as people say it is.
20100616 19:55:11< Gambit> America just needs to get it over with and take over the rest of hte world already.
20100616 19:55:12< Aethaeryn> first the deserts and other bad land, then the ocean surface, then underwater...
20100616 19:55:14< Gambit> I'm tired of waiting.
20100616 19:55:15< PetePorty> bbut there IS a problem
20100616 19:55:16< Aethaeryn> then the Moon, then Mars.
20100616 19:55:16 * Gambit wants space
20100616 19:55:23-!- Telaron [9442274a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.66.39.74] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 19:55:33< Hulavuta> My teacher kept saying that we should learn to live underwater, not in space. 
20100616 19:55:33< Aethaeryn> Technology will increase and comparative prices of exotic places will go down
20100616 19:55:42< Hulavuta> We have all this water and nothing to do with it
20100616 19:55:42< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: well, the surface is cheaper
20100616 19:55:43< Hulavuta> lol
20100616 19:55:49< Aethaeryn> so that will happen first
20100616 19:55:50< PetePorty> Gambit, I hope you know America is a continent
20100616 19:55:58< Hulavuta> America is a country...
20100616 19:56:00< Aethaeryn> and won't fill up for a while.
20100616 19:56:02< Hulavuta> North America is a continent
20100616 19:56:08< Aethaeryn> anyway, some economist actually did the math
20100616 19:56:09< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Will you be my Demosthenes?
20100616 19:56:09< Hulavuta> South America is a continent
20100616 19:56:13< PetePorty> America is a continent
20100616 19:56:14< Aethaeryn> to live on a floating oil-like platform 
20100616 19:56:22< Gambit> http://xkcd.com/635/
20100616 19:56:26< PetePorty> Unites States of America is a country
20100616 19:56:26< Telaron> It may fill up with all those illegal immigrants...
20100616 19:56:33< Aethaeryn> is about the same as living in the heart of San Fransisco
20100616 19:56:47< Aethaeryn> so yeah, not worth it yet, but it will be soon... maybe within 30 years some people will live in the ocean
20100616 19:56:51< Hulavuta> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
20100616 19:57:04< Gambit> Hulavuta: Earth -> America
20100616 19:57:07< Gambit> by 3000
20100616 19:57:09< Hulavuta> but
20100616 19:57:11< Hulavuta> wut
20100616 19:57:11< Gambit> A.D.
20100616 19:57:17< Hulavuta> Earth is America????
20100616 19:57:23< Gambit> Soon.
20100616 19:57:27< Hulavuta> True
20100616 19:57:33< Unnheulu> No
20100616 19:57:35< Gambit> s/soon/990 years/
20100616 19:57:36< PetePorty> Hula, wait 20 minutes and visit that same link again
20100616 19:57:45< Unnheulu> Earth -> American, Wales, Scotland
20100616 19:57:48< Aethaeryn> Gambit: well... I actually don't need to do anything to make this happen.
20100616 19:57:55< Aethaeryn> it's a natural long-run process.
20100616 19:57:56< Unnheulu> We'd be two tiny blobs in an american dominated world :)
20100616 19:58:00< Aethaeryn> someone could speed it up, or slow it down.
20100616 19:58:03< Aethaeryn> but it's inevitable.
20100616 19:58:05< Hulavuta> Wow, you're going to re-write it? 
20100616 19:58:15< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Yeah but let's be on top of it.
20100616 19:58:20 * Gambit will be hegemon of course.
20100616 19:58:23< PetePorty> no, it already says
20100616 19:58:28< PetePorty> America is a continent
20100616 19:58:34< Aethaeryn> if it's expensive to live on land cities in some places, and cheaper to live on water cities in some places, people will start living in the water
20100616 19:58:34< Ivanovic> Hulavuta: regarding titles: i think i'd need some more if every position was listed
20100616 19:58:35< Ivanovic> ;)
20100616 19:58:38< Gambit> Gambit digivolve to
20100616 19:58:38< PetePorty> it is also used to reffer to a country sometimes
20100616 19:58:40< Gambit> HEGEMON
20100616 19:58:41< Aethaeryn> until a kind of equilibrium is reached
20100616 19:58:46< Aethaeryn> Gambit: so if you want to get into real estate...
20100616 19:58:49< Aethaeryn> get into ocean real estate.
20100616 19:58:53< Gambit> *megagaruruhegemon
20100616 19:58:54< Aethaeryn> it might be 30-40 years
20100616 19:58:58< Aethaeryn> but you're in to make a killing if you start early.
20100616 19:59:04< Aethaeryn> especially if you're young enough
20100616 19:59:15< Gambit> I don't have 30-40 years.
20100616 19:59:16< Gambit> Maybe 30.
20100616 19:59:21< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 19:59:22< Hulavuta> Gambit I have a important question
20100616 19:59:30< PetePorty> you planning to die young?
20100616 19:59:32< Hulavuta> Deal, or No Deal?
20100616 20:00:09< Aethaeryn> Gambit: how old are you?
20100616 20:00:13< Telaron> maybe Gambit's 70 already.
20100616 20:00:13< Aethaeryn> and do you really want to retire that young?
20100616 20:00:24< Aethaeryn> in this economy we'll retire at 80-90
20100616 20:00:31< Aethaeryn> if ever?
20100616 20:00:43< PetePorty> Gambit, is 48
20100616 20:00:50< Aethaeryn> :o
20100616 20:00:53< Telaron> and 5 months
20100616 20:01:02< Hulavuta> seriously?
20100616 20:01:03< Aethaeryn> Honestly...
20100616 20:01:04< PetePorty> he will be 49 in exactly 187 days
20100616 20:01:08< Aethaeryn> I don't think I've seen anyone over 30 on IRC.
20100616 20:01:13< Aethaeryn> There's some developers over 30
20100616 20:01:15< Hulavuta> I thought he was like 25 or something lol
20100616 20:01:17< Aethaeryn> but not in this timesink channel
20100616 20:01:29< Telaron> 15 hours, 42 minutes and 6 seconds
20100616 20:01:30< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: 25+40=65
20100616 20:01:36< PetePorty> haha
20100616 20:01:37< Aethaeryn> the error of linear extrapolation
20100616 20:01:40< Hulavuta> Deal or No Deal?
20100616 20:01:43< Aethaeryn> assuming that you're going to retire at the same age people will today
20100616 20:01:45< Aethaeryn> :P
20100616 20:01:57< Telaron> you deal, I'm tired of cards...
20100616 20:02:02< PetePorty> brb, I need to put some clothes on....
20100616 20:02:09< PetePorty> seems people don't like naked men
20100616 20:02:25< Telaron> not anymore, no.
20100616 20:02:30< Aethaeryn> well, if anyone wanted them they could go to chat roulette
20100616 20:02:44< Aethaeryn> it's a lot harder to find womenz on the interweb
20100616 20:02:51< PetePorty> I NEED to get a webcam
20100616 20:03:01< Aethaeryn> ...
20100616 20:03:01< Aethaeryn> no
20100616 20:03:14< Unnheulu> PetePorty, somethings aren't worth mentioning -.-
20100616 20:03:19< Aethaeryn> only these mythical womenz need webcameras
20100616 20:03:30< PetePorty> O.o
20100616 20:03:36< Aethaeryn> you know, the thing that doesn't exist on the Internet
20100616 20:03:43< PetePorty> gonna be lunch time in like... 1 minute
20100616 20:03:44< Aethaeryn> the one thing you can't find on the Internet
20100616 20:03:52< PetePorty> orly?
20100616 20:04:02< Gambit> Gambit is 18 with a very bad heart.
20100616 20:04:10< Aethaeryn> Gambit: bad heart?
20100616 20:04:13< Gambit> He was also away :o
20100616 20:04:24< PetePorty> k, bye... lunch time
20100616 20:04:29< PetePorty> and...
20100616 20:04:32< Aethaeryn> reminds me of my cat :'
20100616 20:04:32< PetePorty> no, bye
20100616 20:04:33< Telaron> heart problems...  palpitations!
20100616 20:04:34< Aethaeryn> :'(
20100616 20:04:54< Aethaeryn> my cat died a few months short of his 10th birthday
20100616 20:04:57< pyshee> cat
20100616 20:04:58< Aethaeryn> he was a bit obese
20100616 20:05:05< Aethaeryn> heart problems, they say it was probably
20100616 20:05:06< Aethaeryn> so sad
20100616 20:05:08< pyshee> one of the words that are highlighted
20100616 20:05:15< Aethaeryn> he was the only cat of mine that wasn't a jerk.
20100616 20:05:27< Unnheulu> pyshee is a cat
20100616 20:05:33< Unnheulu> Sorry, pishi is a cat
20100616 20:05:47 * Unnheulu pronounces pyshee pie-she
20100616 20:05:48< pyshee> all the annoucements are very annoying..
20100616 20:05:52< Telaron> a relative of yours Unnheulu?
20100616 20:05:54< pyshee> no, peeshee
20100616 20:05:58< Unnheulu> Telaron, no :P
20100616 20:06:09< Unnheulu> I'm a brit, pishi's an american
20100616 20:06:44< Aethaeryn> oooooh
20100616 20:07:20< Aethaeryn> if you type "cat" and then a text filename, it'll print the contents in the Terminal.
20100616 20:07:33< Unnheulu> Yup
20100616 20:07:38< Hulavuta> I'm leaving now
20100616 20:07:45 * Unnheulu gasps that Aethaeryn didn't already know
20100616 20:07:46< Aethaeryn> I tend to just use emacs for everything
20100616 20:07:50< Aethaeryn> has a no-GUI mode :P
20100616 20:07:51< Hulavuta> byeall
20100616 20:07:52-!- Hulavuta [~Jeremy@47.17.100.97.cfl.res.rr.com] has left #wesnoth []
20100616 20:07:58< Unnheulu> In fact, I'm pretty sure that works on an Android to
20100616 20:08:02< Unnheulu> Can't be certain though
20100616 20:08:24< Aethaeryn> again, unless you're running it without X, there's really no reason to navigate around such things in the Terminal
20100616 20:08:30< Aethaeryn> except if it's shorter that way than with a GUI
20100616 20:08:39< Aethaeryn> which I can't see a use of "cat" for
20100616 20:08:51< pyshee> too many highlights!
20100616 20:08:54< Gambit> deus ex sequel? meh...
20100616 20:08:56< Gambit> It's no SWBF3
20100616 20:09:04< Aethaeryn> sorry, c*t
20100616 20:09:35< Aethaeryn> Gambit: but yeah, my c*t died young of heart problems on Christmas Eve Eve :(
20100616 20:09:55< Telaron> The day before christmas Eve?
20100616 20:10:03< Aethaeryn> of course
20100616 20:10:21< Aethaeryn> e^e^e^x was the answer to an example in class yesterday
20100616 20:10:29-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 20:10:31< Aethaeryn> so if it works with math, it can work with holidays
20100616 20:11:08-!- Tomsik [~Tomsik@bch170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 20:11:19-!- hystreni [~hystreni@ip9.trandansen.se] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 20:11:56< Aethaeryn> tbh, I don't really like math
20100616 20:12:06< Aethaeryn> I just like physics, computers, and economics...
20100616 20:12:24< Aethaeryn> so for some reason I'm forced to learn a lot about graphing I'll never use ;)
20100616 20:12:44< artisticdude> Love computers & English, hate math.
20100616 20:12:52< Aethaeryn> I like writing
20100616 20:12:55< Aethaeryn> I don't like English
20100616 20:12:55< Telaron> and ocean real estate
20100616 20:12:58< Aethaeryn> thus, philosophy
20100616 20:13:04< Aethaeryn> Philosophy = writing intensive, without nitpicking.
20100616 20:13:15< Aethaeryn> Where the substance means more than the form.
20100616 20:13:33< Telaron> look out, artisticdude is a self-proclaimed grammar nazi
20100616 20:13:53< Aethaeryn> It's okay, I'm a self-proclaimed logic nazi.
20100616 20:14:21< Aethaeryn> We deductive logic philosophers fight all the time with grammar people, since if you understand logic it will shape your writing structure.
20100616 20:14:41< Telaron> not a self-proclaimed nazi?
20100616 20:14:49< Samwise> NAZILAND WINS
20100616 20:14:56< Telaron> ??
20100616 20:15:01< Aethaeryn> Telaron: because that would make me a libertarian nazi?
20100616 20:15:02< artisticdude> Aethaeryn: I like logic. I like writing. I like English. 
20100616 20:15:14< Aethaeryn> Telaron: I might as well be an anarchist fascist.
20100616 20:15:27< Unnheulu> elias, didn't campgen have a built-in map editor?
20100616 20:15:33< Aethaeryn> I believe in something that no one in American politics believes... PERSONAL morality.
20100616 20:15:46< Aethaeryn> For instance, I'm pro-life, and I would take that into account in my personal decisions.
20100616 20:15:52< Aethaeryn> But I wouldn't really force my point of view on others.
20100616 20:15:56< Telaron> I believe in personal and general morality...
20100616 20:16:05< Aethaeryn> Honestly, if you wind up doing something in a gray area and it turns out being immoral, it's on you not me.
20100616 20:16:13< Aethaeryn> If I tell people not to do something they'll just do it anyway.
20100616 20:16:21< Aethaeryn> Look at prohibition.
20100616 20:16:29< Aethaeryn> You can ban alcohol, or you could just not drink to get drunk.
20100616 20:16:35< Aethaeryn> And let drunks waste their lives away if they want to.
20100616 20:16:50< Aethaeryn> It's not going to drain on society. Drunks will get drunk anyway. Prohibition proved it.
20100616 20:16:58< artisticdude> That's what it'll be like if the US institutes the gun ban. People will ignore it, I bet.
20100616 20:17:01< Aethaeryn> You're just going to drain resources by waging a War on Alcohol.
20100616 20:17:03< Telaron> I hate alcohol (the taste)
20100616 20:17:05< Aethaeryn> Like they did in the 1920s
20100616 20:17:18< artisticdude> Yep.
20100616 20:17:26< Aethaeryn> And really, a War on Alcohol would just be a stupid waste of taxpayer money if adult taxpayers want to throw away their life getting drunk.
20100616 20:17:35< Unnheulu> artisticdude, most european countries ban guns
20100616 20:17:38< Telaron> I still have that old boot leg whisky still out back...
20100616 20:17:39< Aethaeryn> If it only affects them, then they have the right to waste their lives... and therefore reduce competition.
20100616 20:17:39< Unnheulu> And we don't have much trouble with it
20100616 20:17:57< Aethaeryn> Since the less people in the workforce, the more likely I'll be employed. ;)
20100616 20:18:02< artisticdude> But you're probably used to it. Americans aren't.
20100616 20:18:02< Telaron> until recently
20100616 20:18:25< Aethaeryn> so
20100616 20:18:33< Aethaeryn> Republicans want to tell you want you can and cannot do morally.
20100616 20:18:43< Unnheulu> I'm sure americans *can* get used to it though
20100616 20:18:44< Aethaeryn> And Democrats want to tell you that they can spend your money better than you can.
20100616 20:18:50< Aethaeryn> So that's why I'm not a member of a party.
20100616 20:19:07< Unnheulu> Aethaeryn, where's the third party! :P
20100616 20:19:07< artisticdude> Unnheulu: exactly.
20100616 20:19:15< Unnheulu> Or a coalition government :/
20100616 20:19:16< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: http://seasteading.org/
20100616 20:19:18< Aethaeryn> forget the third party.
20100616 20:19:21< Aethaeryn> just move out to the ocean
20100616 20:19:31< Telaron> Look at Obama. How many promises has he made and broken? How many times has he been caught lying?
20100616 20:19:34< Aethaeryn> though yes, like in Britain, a third party even if tiny will force compromise through coalition by preventing a majority
20100616 20:19:37< Aethaeryn> like in England
20100616 20:19:40-!- Samwise [~Samwise@p57B197E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: I'm... too sexy for you all, too sexy...]
20100616 20:19:48< Telaron> Both parties need a lot of help...
20100616 20:19:49< Aethaeryn> Honestly, democracy is tyranny as it is currently practiced.
20100616 20:19:50< artisticdude> I consider myself sympathetic to the Republicans, but I think of myself as an independent.
20100616 20:19:54< Unnheulu> Like in England?
20100616 20:19:59< Unnheulu> The election was the whole of the uk :P
20100616 20:20:00< Aethaeryn> It's saying that if you're in a 49% minority, that they'll force their will on you
20100616 20:20:05< Aethaeryn> and you'll have no say for the next 2-6 years
20100616 20:20:17< Aethaeryn> and when 49% of the population is oppressed with no say...
20100616 20:20:21< Aethaeryn> That's still tyranny.
20100616 20:20:29< Aethaeryn> Not as bad as a dictatorship, but still a fractional tyrrany.
20100616 20:20:37< Telaron> No, they'd say that's democracy...
20100616 20:20:44< Aethaeryn> It's not rule of the people.
20100616 20:20:47< Aethaeryn> It's rule of the *majority*
20100616 20:20:58< Telaron> precisely 
20100616 20:20:59< Aethaeryn> And if you're an INTP, a very rare personality (maybe 2% or something) you're fucked
20100616 20:21:32< Aethaeryn> but yeah, democracy as it is would be better than the existing alternatives.
20100616 20:21:45< Tomsik> The problem with democracy is that they say "we're not responsible for X, it's them!"
20100616 20:21:51< Aethaeryn> but it's still not the best theoretically possible system because of the two problems we just established.
20100616 20:21:53< artisticdude> There is no ideal system of government.
20100616 20:22:13< Aethaeryn> the fact that a narrow majority can supress a minority, and the fact that no third parties are possible and thus no compromises.
20100616 20:22:18< Tomsik> I'd rather have a monarch that an angry mob can roll over, if he's too stupid
20100616 20:22:19< Aethaeryn> While most people are somewhere in the middle.
20100616 20:22:21< Aethaeryn> I mean, tbh..
20100616 20:22:39< Aethaeryn> I have to choose between Republicans getting economics right and being anti-music/holywood opressing average people
20100616 20:22:42< Unnheulu> Not many countries have a proper monarch nowadays though
20100616 20:22:43< Aethaeryn> and Democrats getting tech right
20100616 20:22:48< elias> hm, wonder why irssi highlighted this channel
20100616 20:22:49< Aethaeryn> and that's just a very difficult decision
20100616 20:22:57< Unnheulu> elias, me, like normal!
20100616 20:23:05< artisticdude> I personally would prefer a monarch, because people don't know how to govern themselves. On the other hand, get a bad monarch and you're cooked.
20100616 20:23:09< elias> ah, hi Unnheulu 
20100616 20:23:25< Aethaeryn> < artisticdude> There is no ideal system of government. <- There are plenty of ideal systems of government out there. Maybe hundreds. The problem is in practice. :P
20100616 20:23:46< artisticdude> True.
20100616 20:23:50< Aethaeryn> I like the theory behind http://seasteading.org/ though
20100616 20:23:51< Unnheulu> <Unnheulu>   elias, didn't campgen have a built-in map editor?
20100616 20:23:54< Aethaeryn> it's a nice theory.
20100616 20:24:03< elias> Unnheulu: it did have one, yes
20100616 20:24:13< artisticdude> If mankind would behave themselves and work together we wouldn't need a government.
20100616 20:24:13< Unnheulu> Kay
20100616 20:24:17< Telaron> But not reality, unfortunately.
20100616 20:24:21 * Unnheulu goes and downloads the code to look
20100616 20:24:28< Aethaeryn> (1) There aren't radically new systems of government for almost 100 years, thus no comparative reform. (2) Frontiers used to provide new systems of government. (3) There are no new frontiers right now. (4) Therefore, make frontiers from the oceans.
20100616 20:24:34< Aethaeryn> Might be fantastical but would be interesting.
20100616 20:24:55< Unnheulu> Wow, you haven't posted since 2008
20100616 20:25:03< Telaron> whom?
20100616 20:25:11< artisticdude> Who, not whom.
20100616 20:25:18< Unnheulu> elias
20100616 20:25:26< Aethaeryn> I might not have posted in a while
20100616 20:25:28< Telaron> Ah, shut-up man! :P
20100616 20:25:29< elias> yeah, just never managed to remove the irc chanels from auto-join :)
20100616 20:25:31< Unnheulu> /allefant
20100616 20:25:35< Aethaeryn> since most of my posts *ahem* get purged in Off-Topic
20100616 20:25:41< artisticdude> I have to keep my reputation alive. :P
20100616 20:25:50< Unnheulu> elias, you don't play anymore?
20100616 20:25:52< Aethaeryn> artisticdude: and yes, it's to/for whom
20100616 20:26:00< Telaron> And might I ask what reputation that might be?
20100616 20:26:03< elias> Unnheulu: i didn't in a few years, but started again some days ago
20100616 20:26:12< Aethaeryn> anyone who took Latin or (ancient) Greek would be more aware of stuff like that
20100616 20:26:19< elias> (since I bought the ipad version for 5€... so now kinda have to play it)
20100616 20:26:20< Aethaeryn> Telaron: For whom is the benefit of the reputation?
20100616 20:26:38< Unnheulu> 1€ = 1$?
20100616 20:26:38< Aethaeryn> artisticdude: that appropriate?
20100616 20:26:43< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: no
20100616 20:26:51< Aethaeryn> a euro's still more than a dollar but it's basically in a freefall
20100616 20:26:52 * Unnheulu is never going to replace campgen :O
20100616 20:26:52< artisticdude> You say :Who hasn't posted since 2008?"
20100616 20:27:11< Aethaeryn> a euro used to be $1.60 before Greece
20100616 20:27:11< Unnheulu> It's huge  :O
20100616 20:27:16< Aethaeryn> it'll probably settle just under $1.20
20100616 20:27:21< Aethaeryn> so it's actually almost done its projected freefall
20100616 20:27:24< Aethaeryn> it's $1.23
20100616 20:27:26 * Unnheulu wonders how many euros to the pound
20100616 20:27:32< artisticdude> Aethaeryn: yup.
20100616 20:27:40< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: so wait until you buy anything priced in euros
20100616 20:27:41< Telaron> Aethaeryn: artisticdude's benefit.
20100616 20:27:46< Aethaeryn> since it's supposed to get a few cents cheaper
20100616 20:28:02< Unnheulu> elias, mind if I try converting campgen to 1.8?
20100616 20:28:13< Unnheulu> I was gonna make one over the summer, but campgen is just so huge
20100616 20:28:15< Aethaeryn> artisticdude: Latin calls it the dative case. To/for foo.
20100616 20:28:23< Aethaeryn> Indirect object
20100616 20:28:29< elias> Unnheulu: my advice would be to start from scratch
20100616 20:28:39< Unnheulu> But it's huuuuge :P
20100616 20:28:40< Aethaeryn> artisticdude: Helps me remember where "whom" is appropriate because I just think of it as declining an object into the dative
20100616 20:28:50< artisticdude> Yes, I know.
20100616 20:28:52< Aethaeryn> artisticdude: If you're into English grammar/spelling you *need* to take many years of Latin.
20100616 20:28:58< elias> Unnheulu: yes, it tried to support all the WML features which existed back then
20100616 20:28:58< Aethaeryn> It'll help you more than English will.
20100616 20:28:58< Unnheulu> And it'd help to have something like that to use as a base
20100616 20:29:13< Aethaeryn> artisticdude: Actually my Latin teachers in high school spent a significant chunk teaching English grammar.
20100616 20:29:14< artisticdude> Believe me, I've been taking latin for... at least 4 or 5 years now.
20100616 20:29:30< Aethaeryn> Even private schools don't teach English grammar strictly enough to help you understand some Latin concepts
20100616 20:29:31< artisticdude> Really.
20100616 20:29:46< Unnheulu> Right now I want to make a map editor which allows you to add statues and stuff
20100616 20:29:52< Unnheulu> And it'll have an auto-upload feature
20100616 20:29:55< Unnheulu> brb
20100616 20:30:03< Aethaeryn> well, yeah, basically up to the first half of the class introducing a new concept could have been spent on teaching the concept in English first
20100616 20:30:16< artisticdude> Latin helps with vocabulary, which helps with SAT's, which helps with college, which helps with your career, which helps with life.
20100616 20:30:50< Aethaeryn> Latin helps with English vocabulary, English grammar (parts of it at least), and learning Romance languages.
20100616 20:30:57< artisticdude> Latin can be fun. The memorization part isn't.
20100616 20:30:59< Aethaeryn> So it's a good foundation. I'd recommend anyone take it before college.
20100616 20:31:04-!- phlaem [~a@e178099052.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 20:31:14< Tomsik> How does Latin help with satisfyability of 3-CNF formulas?
20100616 20:31:15< Tomsik> :p
20100616 20:31:20< Aethaeryn> and yeah, sometimes I have to look up 3-5 declension for some obscure parts.
20100616 20:31:23< Aethaeryn> and most of the words
20100616 20:31:33< Aethaeryn> but at least I know it enough and if I go through it again I'll pick it up faster
20100616 20:31:42< Aethaeryn> kinda like how precalc now is a peace of cake, even though it's being rushed through this summer
20100616 20:31:49< Aethaeryn> since I did this math before years ago when I was in high school
20100616 20:31:52-!- sevis [~sevis@s55924e6f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20100616 20:32:01< artisticdude> My parents share that view, Aethaeryn.
20100616 20:32:01< artisticdude> What Latin course did you take?
20100616 20:32:07< Aethaeryn> Uh
20100616 20:32:13< Aethaeryn> Latin 1 was a red book
20100616 20:32:16< Aethaeryn> Latin 2 was a green book
20100616 20:32:20< Aethaeryn> Latin 3 was a blue book
20100616 20:32:31< artisticdude> Sounds like... Henley?
20100616 20:32:55< Aethaeryn> I think it was published by McGraw-Hill
20100616 20:32:59< Aethaeryn> could be wrong
20100616 20:33:23< Aethaeryn> Probably either an M or a hyphen in the publisher :P
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20100616 20:33:47< Telaron> Latin 1 in Henley is a purple book.
20100616 20:33:48< artisticdude> Hmm... there's another big latin course, but I can't remember either the author or the publisher ATM.
20100616 20:33:50< Aethaeryn> hmm
20100616 20:34:00< Aethaeryn> mcgraw hill doesn't offer it it seems
20100616 20:34:03< Aethaeryn> I don't think
20100616 20:34:05< Aethaeryn> odd
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20100616 20:34:25< Aethaeryn> artisticdude: anyway, Wheelock's is the most popular college level
20100616 20:34:40< Aethaeryn> if you're going to take it in college to, you probably want to buy it and work through its 40 chapters just so you're familiar with its method
20100616 20:34:43< Aethaeryn> *too
20100616 20:34:55< Aethaeryn> I blame typos on the slower keyboard, since it's wireless and a little slower than my laptop
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20100616 20:35:12< Aethaeryn> On my laptop keyboard I am much faster and without errors. Mostly.
20100616 20:35:26< artisticdude> I haven't taken Wheelock yet, that's next year, I believe.
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20100616 20:36:09< coolie> Heya!
20100616 20:36:20< artisticdude> I'm currently taking Hans H. Orberg's Lingua Latina, as a review course over the summer
20100616 20:36:24< Aethaeryn> oooh
20100616 20:36:27< Aethaeryn> I have that book
20100616 20:36:27< coolie> I need to find Shadowmaster!
20100616 20:36:30< coolie> Shadowmaster, are you here?
20100616 20:36:44< Aethaeryn> I don't have my high school books because they were rentals
20100616 20:36:45< artisticdude> SM isn't here, I don't think...
20100616 20:36:50< coolie> shadowmaster!!!!
20100616 20:36:51< Aethaeryn> but I do have Lingua Latina and a bunch of other Orberg
20100616 20:37:04< coolie> artisticdude, Cool, Thanks,
20100616 20:37:06< Aethaeryn> as well as Wheelock's and some supplements, but only the first year Wheelock's
20100616 20:37:22< coolie> Anybody know when "After the storm" will be completed?
20100616 20:37:30< coolie> I had 5 levels, and rest are under development,
20100616 20:37:31< artisticdude> No.
20100616 20:37:37< Aethaeryn> I was going to pick up Latin again this summer, and take college-level Latin I (approx. twice as fast as high school level) this fall...
20100616 20:37:53< Aethaeryn> The school uses Wheelock's (the most popular college-level) so I wouldn't have even needed the book.
20100616 20:37:57 * coolie cries aloud
20100616 20:38:12< Telaron> coolie: want a tissue?
20100616 20:38:25< Aethaeryn> But now that I'm double majoring I have no room, and because I took 4 years in high school (through Latin V) I don't have to take a language...
20100616 20:38:31< coolie> Telaron, Yes, :D
20100616 20:38:34< Aethaeryn> I'm not sure if I'll ever take Latin again except for self-taught...
20100616 20:38:50< Aethaeryn> artisticdude: you learn more self-taught anyway. The real trick of education is sparking an interest that gets you to learn more on your own.
20100616 20:39:03< artisticdude> Some colleges accept Latin as a foreign languages, while other require you to know a language that is currently in use.
20100616 20:39:04< Aethaeryn> I mean, I haven't taken any econs past the two intros and yet I just gave a mini-lecture
20100616 20:39:11< Aethaeryn> heh
20100616 20:39:14< Aethaeryn> Latin is currently in use
20100616 20:39:27< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City
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20100616 20:39:49< Aethaeryn> before the 1970s, there were probably more Latin speakers than a lot of small languages.
20100616 20:39:50< Unnheulu> Actually, would there be a problem if I had an auto-upload script in the editor>
20100616 20:39:55< Aethaeryn> might've been top 20 or 30
20100616 20:40:12< artisticdude> It's used in the Traditional Roman Catholic Mass.
20100616 20:40:23< Aethaeryn> exactly :P
20100616 20:40:42< Aethaeryn> Philosophy major, Latin scholar... I'd be a good candidate to be a priest...
20100616 20:40:42< artisticdude> Once upon a time all educated people knew latin. Now... not so much.
20100616 20:40:47< Aethaeryn> Except they can't marry.
20100616 20:40:52< Aethaeryn> And I'm not Catholic.
20100616 20:40:59< Aethaeryn> Honestly, priests not marrying is just plain stupid.
20100616 20:41:07< artisticdude> Why?
20100616 20:41:09 * coolie will die of After the storm isn't completed soon
20100616 20:41:15< coolie> :)
20100616 20:41:16< Aethaeryn> It's tradition? Well, the eastern churches are even MORE traditional than the western ones...
20100616 20:41:28< Aethaeryn> and their laypriests can marry, it's just the bishops and hierarchy that cannot.
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20100616 20:41:33< Aethaeryn> And it's a lot easier to have laypriests that way.
20100616 20:41:33< coolie> Malin Kesar! Oh Malin, I love you Malin!
20100616 20:41:38< Aethaeryn> Not everyone can be a saint
20100616 20:41:43< Aethaeryn> (at least a saint by Catholic standards)
20100616 20:41:43< artisticdude> It's so they can devote themselves entirely to God.
20100616 20:41:47< Aethaeryn> Yeah.
20100616 20:41:58< Aethaeryn> And the supply of people who can devote themselves entirely to God is very low.
20100616 20:42:01< artisticdude> Obama's a saint among the Baptists.
20100616 20:42:25< artisticdude> Very low indeed.
20100616 20:42:29< Aethaeryn> Unintentional consequence of the high barrier to entry: scandals in the US and Ireland
20100616 20:42:36< Aethaeryn> Scandals never happened in the orthodox churches.
20100616 20:42:49-!- coolie [~Cool@115.117.229.252] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100616 20:43:06< Aethaeryn> In fact, they didn't even live by their own standards historically...
20100616 20:43:18< Aethaeryn> So it was doubtful that they ever were able to live as they are claiming tradition dictates.
20100616 20:43:25< Aethaeryn> Look at the corrupt Renaissance popes
20100616 20:43:29< Aethaeryn> Alexander especially.
20100616 20:43:44< artisticdude> There have been bad popes.
20100616 20:44:09< artisticdude> I'd better finish my Latin, I guess. Thanks for the chat, Aythaeryn. =)
20100616 20:44:14< Aethaeryn> Men want sex. Even moral men want children and familes. It is a natural urge. It is very hard to overcome. It is also the vice of choice of modern society since the mid 20th century.
20100616 20:44:19-!- artisticdude [9442274a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.66.39.74] has quit [Quit: See you.]
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20100616 20:44:41< Aethaeryn> So yeah, Catholics will get more (and better quality) priests if they just let them marry.
20100616 20:44:55< Aethaeryn> And if they allow birth control, the priests won't be kept busy by 8 kids.
20100616 20:45:18-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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20100616 20:47:06< Tomsik> Who wants better priests? Let the dinosaurs die. :p
20100616 20:48:32< Aethaeryn> hey, I'd give advice to the FSM church too if they were in trouble
20100616 20:48:35< Aethaeryn> but apparently, they're not
20100616 20:48:43< Aethaeryn> they're gaining members
20100616 20:52:43< Aethaeryn> hmm
20100616 20:52:55< Aethaeryn> if Vatican City can be a country with 829 citizens.
20100616 20:53:05< Aethaeryn> then anyone can start a country
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20100616 20:54:37< Aethaeryn> United States of Antarctica
20100616 20:54:42< Aethaeryn> there's a big chunk unclaimed
20100616 20:55:48< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_territorial_claims
20100616 20:56:00< Aethaeryn> Marie Byrd Land is unclaimed!
20100616 20:57:50< Telaron> mine!
20100616 20:58:04< Aethaeryn> get 831 people with you
20100616 20:58:09< Aethaeryn> so you can claim to be larger than an existing country
20100616 20:58:20< Telaron> you're number one.
20100616 20:58:20< Aethaeryn> I say 831 and not 830 because the penguins might kill one of them
20100616 20:58:32< Aethaeryn> Telaron: ok, you're king, I'm prime minister?
20100616 20:58:51< Telaron> hehehe! King of the Penguins!
20100616 20:59:04< Telaron> sounds like a horror movie...
20100616 20:59:09< Aethaeryn> Our emperor is a randomly selected Emperor Penguin
20100616 20:59:15< Aethaeryn> so we can be the only country with a non-human head of state
20100616 20:59:20< Aethaeryn> since their role is only symbolic anyway
20100616 20:59:31< Telaron> hey, no one above me now.
20100616 21:00:10< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Byrd_Land
20100616 21:00:12< Telaron> I could erect a towering penguin statue. 100 sq feet of ice!
20100616 21:00:25< Aethaeryn> It is not a recognized nation, making it by far the largest single unclaimed territory on Earth, with an area of 1,610,000 km²
20100616 21:00:28< Aethaeryn> \o/
20100616 21:00:40< Aethaeryn> what a large chunk of land to claim
20100616 21:01:11< Telaron> you mean ice.
20100616 21:01:23< Aethaeryn> uh
20100616 21:01:31< Aethaeryn> let's just pull a wikipedia and call it "territory"
20100616 21:01:40< Telaron> Though there is probably land under there somewhere.
20100616 21:03:32< Aethaeryn> everyone knows that the land under Antarctica is where the Nazis hide
20100616 21:03:32< Aethaeryn> duh
20100616 21:04:38< Telaron> There's a movie like that somewhere...
20100616 21:05:12< Aethaeryn> well, it's a common conspiracy theory
20100616 21:05:21< Aethaeryn> most versions involve UFOs somehow
20100616 21:05:30< Aethaeryn> bonus points if it involves a hallow earth portal to the center
20100616 21:06:03< Telaron> Same thing with transformers, independence day, and all those others.
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20100616 21:06:37< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth
20100616 21:06:42< Aethaeryn> they're obviously wrong, btw
20100616 21:06:47< Aethaeryn> such morons
20100616 21:06:53< Aethaeryn> everyone knows that the Earth is flat
20100616 21:06:58< Aethaeryn> and thus cannot be a hollow sphere
20100616 21:08:03< Telaron> yeah, Christopher Columbus is responsible. He didn't fall off the edge...*somehow*
20100616 21:08:16< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: have you ever had sneakers?
20100616 21:08:30< Tomsik> Or any other shoes in fact
20100616 21:08:40< Aethaeryn> Telaron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kansas_-_Point_of_Know_Return.jpg
20100616 21:08:46< Aethaeryn> totally true depiction of the end of the earth
20100616 21:08:52< Aethaeryn> obviously a real event too
20100616 21:09:08< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: *shoes*? it makes you out of touch with nature!
20100616 21:09:10< hystreni> what addon pack is "empowered era of heroes"?
20100616 21:09:23< Telaron> figures! all those history book are written by liars.
20100616 21:10:06< Tomsik> Look, where is the sole most worn out
20100616 21:10:12< Tomsik> It's the sides and front/back
20100616 21:10:32< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: but I always creep around on my toes... otherwise they wouldn't be sneakers
20100616 21:10:41< Tomsik> That is possible only under assumption that Earth is a hollow sphere and we're inside
20100616 21:10:51< Aethaeryn> :o
20100616 21:10:58< Aethaeryn> so
20100616 21:11:02< Aethaeryn> what if that's not the edge of the earth
20100616 21:11:10< Aethaeryn> but rather a giant hole into the center?
20100616 21:11:17< Aethaeryn> obviously somewhere on Google Earth
20100616 21:11:20< Aethaeryn> if you spend enough time
20100616 21:11:41< Tomsik> Also, satellites are a myth
20100616 21:11:58< Tomsik> it's just one satellite in the middle of the Earth
20100616 21:12:22< Aethaeryn> we forged the moon landing
20100616 21:12:28< Aethaeryn> so we actually don't know if there's anything beyond the Earth
20100616 21:12:32< Telaron> Don't forget, the entire universe evolves around you, not the sun.
20100616 21:12:43< Aethaeryn> the universe evolves? :o
20100616 21:12:44< Aethaeryn> liez
20100616 21:13:34< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationist_museum
20100616 21:14:02< Aethaeryn> we're a Democracy
20100616 21:14:16< Aethaeryn> according to Wikipedia 45% of Americans believe that the Earth is < 10,000 years
20100616 21:14:28< Aethaeryn> those who don't are probably in the 30%s and the rest aren't sure
20100616 21:14:30< Tomsik> It's americans, no wonder
20100616 21:14:36< Aethaeryn> therefore, as a democracy
20100616 21:14:41< Aethaeryn> the largest view should win!
20100616 21:14:55< Telaron> I believe it is under 10,000 years old
20100616 21:15:59< Aethaeryn> Telaron: good, you're in the largest view.
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20100616 21:16:03< PetePorty> anyone wants to play katos mod?
20100616 21:16:22< Aethaeryn> I personally believe that anyone who does the math back in the Bible to get the precise date is absurd.
20100616 21:16:49< Aethaeryn> So, even *if* the Bible account is correct, any attempt to know the exact date is a little.... uh... like finding the Bible code
20100616 21:17:38< Telaron> A basically impossible code to crack.
20100616 21:18:01< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: do you have a problem with Americans?
20100616 21:18:27< Aethaeryn> If so, we might correct your country's point of view whenever we pull out of Iraq ;)
20100616 21:18:46< Aethaeryn> Because America can dow hatever the hell it wants apparently.
20100616 21:19:42< Tomsik> I don't care about my country's point of view, I have my own.
20100616 21:19:52< PetePorty> Tomsik, I love you
20100616 21:19:59< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: how unamerican
20100616 21:20:13< Aethaeryn> :P
20100616 21:20:55< Aethaeryn> anyway
20100616 21:20:57< Tomsik> It's just that the more I hear about and from americans the more I believe that generally it's a doomed country
20100616 21:21:02< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Creation_Museum_10.png
20100616 21:21:24< Telaron> All countries like us are doomed. Just look at the Roman Empire.
20100616 21:21:38-!- Sacho [~sacho@79-100-60-91.btc-net.bg] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 21:21:48< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: wtf? Flintstones?
20100616 21:21:59< Telaron> Tomsik, the prophet of doom. 
20100616 21:22:09< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: no this
20100616 21:22:10< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Creation_museum_triceratops_saddle.jpg
20100616 21:22:38< Tomsik> What the heck is that and why is this called a "museum"?
20100616 21:24:36< Telaron> Speaking of doom, anyone know anything about the movie 2010?
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20100616 21:30:55< Aethaeryn> Telaron: the world's going to end this year? :o
20100616 21:31:14< Aethaeryn> Olmec prophecy
20100616 21:31:16< Telaron> Aethaeryn: So the movie says.
20100616 21:33:50< Aethaeryn> Telaron: or did you mean 2012?
20100616 21:33:56< Aethaeryn> The Mayans claim that one
20100616 21:34:03< Aethaeryn> and I assume the Aztecs want it to end 2017
20100616 21:34:57< Telaron> yeah, sorry guys. The movie i meant is called 2012. So we still have two years left.
20100616 21:35:02< Tomsik> Err...
20100616 21:35:08< Tomsik> If Mayan calendar ends
20100616 21:35:20< Tomsik> then the Julian calendar should begin
20100616 21:36:01< sevis> The world as we know it will end in 2038.
20100616 21:36:15< Aethaeryn> well, the Romans were all paniced and all
20100616 21:36:25< Aethaeryn> way back in the BC time
20100616 21:36:26< Tomsik> Nah, computers will be all 64bit already by that time sevis 
20100616 21:36:31< Tomsik> or even more
20100616 21:36:35< sevis> ``as we know it'', I said.
20100616 21:36:44< Aethaeryn> when they hit 10 BC they were like "oh shit, something is going to happen soon... we're running out of years"
20100616 21:36:51< Aethaeryn> and then when they got to 2 BC it was really scary
20100616 21:36:58< sevis> I'll need to make my processor 64 then. :(
20100616 21:37:01< Tomsik> I'm pretty sure that in twenty years the world will be in a place we aren't even dreaming of right now.
20100616 21:37:14< sevis> 64-bit*
20100616 21:37:55< Telaron> I've already got a 64-bit computer! : )
20100616 21:38:24< sevis> I've just decided to make it 32-bit today.
20100616 21:43:53< Telaron> see ya guys. Dinner calls!
20100616 21:44:14< Aethaeryn> sevis: will you be 128-bit ready in 2032?
20100616 21:44:17-!- Telaron [9442274a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.66.39.74] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20100616 21:44:18< Aethaeryn> or will you not make the switch yet?
20100616 21:44:34< sevis> If things go as they are going now, I'll be 128-bit in two weeks.
20100616 21:44:43< Gambit> ...
20100616 21:44:47< Gambit> we have 128 already?
20100616 21:44:51 * Gambit feels outdated
20100616 21:44:56< sevis> Yes, we do.
20100616 21:44:57-!- knotwork [~markm@142.177.232.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100616 21:45:13< sevis> Although I'm not sure if they mean internally, address bus or data bus.
20100616 21:45:18< sevis> Probably ALU size.
20100616 21:45:52< Aethaeryn> sevis: oh sorry
20100616 21:45:53< Aethaeryn> typo
20100616 21:45:58< Aethaeryn> 128 baud, of course
20100616 21:46:05< Aethaeryn> really lightning fast modems.
20100616 21:46:14< sevis> baud?
20100616 21:46:28< SoftlySplinter> uhh
20100616 21:46:32< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baud
20100616 21:46:37< Aethaeryn> old modems were measured in this
20100616 21:46:38 * SoftlySplinter attempts to remember crap from uni
20100616 21:46:38< ancestral> 1200 baud is the future
20100616 21:47:13< Aethaeryn> ancestral: no computer modem will ever need to go beyond 256 baud
20100616 21:47:22< sevis> Ehm. A typical symbol is 8-bit, as far as I know, so isn't it the same as bytes/second?
20100616 21:47:41< ancestral> Aethaeryn: Right! 640k of memory is enough for just about anyone's needs
20100616 21:48:05< Tomsik> sevis: there were times where you counted stuff in bits/s
20100616 21:48:10< Aethaeryn> floppies are good enough
20100616 21:48:13< Aethaeryn> you could fit whole OSes on them
20100616 21:48:17< Aethaeryn> who needs more storage?!
20100616 21:49:03< sevis> I don't suppose we have any assembly programmers here, do we?
20100616 21:49:10< Aethaeryn> assembly?
20100616 21:49:16< Aethaeryn> machine code is much faster and more efficient.
20100616 21:49:43< sevis> Machine code programmers are fine, too.
20100616 21:49:57< Aethaeryn> Real Programmers
20100616 21:49:59< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: ugh
20100616 21:50:08< sevis> Real programmers code in Verilog.
20100616 21:50:14< Tomsik> Assembly is machine code
20100616 21:50:22< Tomsik> only with values substituted by names
20100616 21:50:31< Tomsik> it's 1-1 relationship
20100616 21:50:52< sevis> Tomsik: Not strictly so, perfect assembly is equivalent, but sometimes you may be able to abuse machine code in imaginative ways.
20100616 21:51:09< Tomsik> Malbolge is the language anyway
20100616 21:51:15< Tomsik> or lazy K, that's a good language too
20100616 21:51:20< SoftlySplinter> anything is better than Java tbh xD
20100616 21:51:30< sevis> SoftlySplinter: COBOL?
20100616 21:51:52< SoftlySplinter> only know Java and PHP ¬_¬
20100616 21:52:07< Tomsik> Poor chap.
20100616 21:52:41< SoftlySplinter> which is why I can't wait to learn C & C++
20100616 21:52:45< sevis> But, really, if anyone knows assembly, I have a question. :P
20100616 21:52:51< sevis> Two questions, actually.
20100616 21:53:00< Tomsik> Depends on which assembly you talk about
20100616 21:53:07< Aethaeryn> SoftlySplinter: forget C
20100616 21:53:09< Aethaeryn> what about B?
20100616 21:53:16< grzywacz> SoftlySplinter, why wait?
20100616 21:53:26< SoftlySplinter> grzywacz: because I'm lazy
20100616 21:53:42< grzywacz> You'll be waiting and then suddenly die of old age then.
20100616 21:53:42< Tomsik> Then you should learn Haskell, it's a lazy functional programming language :p
20100616 21:53:49< grzywacz> Tomsik, ;]]]]]]]]]]
20100616 21:53:56< SoftlySplinter> ew Haskell
20100616 21:54:08< grzywacz> s/then././
20100616 21:54:12< sevis> Tomsik: I'm talking about assembly in general. Are there any little-used and easy-to-forget instructions you find very useful, or any instructions you do want but that don't exist?
20100616 21:54:13< SoftlySplinter> everyone in my year hates Haskell
20100616 21:54:14< grzywacz> awww, wrong
20100616 21:54:30< grzywacz> sevis, there's no "assembly in general"
20100616 21:54:39< Tomsik> SoftlySplinter: because they don't get it
20100616 21:54:44< grzywacz> sevis, each cpu architecture uses different instruction sets
20100616 21:54:53-!- Hulavuta [~Jeremy@97.100.17.47] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 21:54:53< Tomsik> Everyone in my hear who doesn't get Haskell hates it too
20100616 21:55:03< Tomsik> but the rest love it
20100616 21:55:03< Hulavuta> Teah totally
20100616 21:55:06< SoftlySplinter> Tomsik: nah they just had an awful lecturer
20100616 21:55:14< Tomsik> s/hear/year/g
20100616 21:55:19< Tomsik> Well, here too :p
20100616 21:55:21< Hulavuta> Hi
20100616 21:55:25< Tomsik> hi
20100616 21:55:31< Hulavuta> Are you new?
20100616 21:55:39< Tomsik> A little bit, maybe
20100616 21:55:39< grzywacz> No, you?
20100616 21:55:47< Hulavuta> Nah, I've been here for a while.
20100616 21:56:00< grzywacz> I don't remember you.
20100616 21:56:02< sevis> grzywacz: I am aware of that. And none the less, I'm talking about assembly in general, because I don't care which CPU the instruction comes from -- I'm currently designing my own machine code + assembly language, and am looking for things I may have overlooked.
20100616 21:56:14< Hulavuta> grzywacz: Do you come here often?
20100616 21:56:25< Tomsik> sevis: well, the fact is that assembly with extensions like mmx gets hard to control
20100616 21:56:40< Hulavuta> Maybe we're just in different time zones, and we're on at different times
20100616 21:56:40< Tomsik> so I don't think a human is able to create efficient code anymore
20100616 21:56:43< Tomsik> in assembly
20100616 21:56:45< grzywacz> sevis, fast (non-iterative), arbitrary integer division ;)
20100616 21:57:40< sevis> grzywacz: So, basically, you'd like it if instead of using subtraction, the ALU had a circuit for division?
20100616 21:58:14< sevis> Wouldn't that make the clock cycle longer, as it would have to give time for the value to come through, and thus slow down the processor?
20100616 21:58:24< Aethaeryn> grzywacz: do 32 bit and 64 bit of a generic (intel) PC use different instruction sets?
20100616 21:58:50< grzywacz> Aethaeryn, they are not the same
20100616 21:58:59< grzywacz> (sets)
20100616 22:00:02< Hulavuta> So...
20100616 22:00:19< Aethaeryn> grzywacz: so there's PowerPC, Sparc, Intel...
20100616 22:00:29< Aethaeryn> I think Intel kinda killed off most of them
20100616 22:00:52< sevis> But isn't the current most-used 64-bit arch from amd?
20100616 22:01:16< Aethaeryn> oooh
20100616 22:01:19< Aethaeryn> good catch
20100616 22:01:30< grzywacz> Aethaeryn, there are at least 2 different intel archs I can think of
20100616 22:01:31< Aethaeryn> I do recall amd64 for the iso
20100616 22:01:50-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 22:02:14< Tomsik> The fact is that nobody wants to mess with that kind of stuff anymore
20100616 22:02:25< grzywacz> not true ;)
20100616 22:02:43< Tomsik> I've seen compilers that work by generating C or C++ code and then running g++ :p
20100616 22:03:07< Hulavuta> I'm going now
20100616 22:03:20< sevis> Tomsik: I do!
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20100616 22:03:53< Tomsik> Okay, excluding masochists? :p
20100616 22:04:37< sevis> I'm not... never mind.
20100616 22:04:45< Tomsik> Though there are two ends of masochist spectrum
20100616 22:05:58< sevis> What do you mean?
20100616 22:07:24< Tomsik> for example IO in haskell
20100616 22:07:49< Tomsik> I mean, I like monads, but I feel it's a bit of an overkill
20100616 22:09:05< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: there are three different Intel arhcitectures
20100616 22:09:18< shadowmaster> in common use, that is
20100616 22:09:49< Aethaeryn> i386
20100616 22:09:50< grzywacz> IA-32, IA-64, and..?
20100616 22:09:51< Aethaeryn> i686
20100616 22:09:59< grzywacz> i386 is a cpu model
20100616 22:10:02< Aethaeryn> oh
20100616 22:10:03< Aethaeryn> damn
20100616 22:10:05< Aethaeryn> was a good guess
20100616 22:10:08< shadowmaster> one is the "x86" architecture, the other is ia64 (Itanium), and then there's Intel64 (forkermly known as EM64T), which is Intel's implemntation of amd64
20100616 22:10:38< Aethaeryn> I was close :P
20100616 22:10:40< grzywacz> shadowmaster, I kind of see em64t as an extension of x86 :)
20100616 22:10:40< shadowmaster> ia64 and amd64/em64t/Intel64 are copletely different
20100616 22:10:44< shadowmaster> *completely
20100616 22:11:43< shadowmaster> if we want to be more specific, the current x86 has gone through multiple major changes
20100616 22:12:15< shadowmaster> most people prefer to talk about "before 386" and "after 386" since that's when protected mode was introduced IIRC
20100616 22:12:49< grzywacz> shadowmaster, correct, bu the cpus are still backwards compatible (shame)
20100616 22:13:32< shadowmaster> software that uses Pentium-specific instructions won't run properly on a 486
20100616 22:13:57< shadowmaster> those can be introduced by optimizing compilers
20100616 22:14:18< grzywacz> won't run at all
20100616 22:14:46< grzywacz> well, ok, properly. semantics ;)
20100616 22:14:55< PetePorty> shadowmaster!!!!!
20100616 22:14:59 * PetePorty hugs shadowmaster 
20100616 22:15:01< shadowmaster> it's possible to ignore illegal instruction interrupts
20100616 22:15:06< PetePorty> we won!
20100616 22:15:09< shadowmaster> the results can be ... um, nasty :)
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20100616 22:15:40< grzywacz> shadowmaster, that's why I changed my comment ;)
20100616 22:15:57< grzywacz> shadowmaster, from the practical perspective, it won't run ;p
20100616 22:17:03< sevis> I'm off to bed, night all.
20100616 22:22:19-!- Unnheulu [~ieuan@cpc5-pnth2-0-0-cust800.5-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth
20100616 22:22:50< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: well, Fedora changed its pacakges lately form i386 to i686
20100616 22:23:00< Aethaeryn> in Fedora 12 I think
20100616 22:23:20< Unnheulu> Hallo
20100616 22:24:00< shadowmaster> hi Unnheulu 
20100616 22:24:22< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: aw, it wouldn't run on my Pentium box anyway
20100616 22:24:35< shadowmaster> 32 MB of RAM isn't enough for anything nowadays.
20100616 22:25:07< shadowmaster> although I could probably try running DSL on it as soon as I feel like replacing the CMOS RAM battery
20100616 22:25:35< Unnheulu> shadowmaster, so will frogatto be in the repositries for most mainline distros?
20100616 22:25:47< shadowmaster> no idea and I don't care
20100616 22:26:15< Unnheulu> So there shouldn't be any issues with the non-free content?
20100616 22:26:24< shadowmaster> yes, there will be
20100616 22:26:37 * Unnheulu crosses a line through debian and fedora
20100616 22:26:45< shadowmaster> and your question is off-topic here
20100616 22:26:56< Unnheulu> Is there really a #frogatto though?
20100616 22:27:02< grzywacz> sure
20100616 22:27:07< Unnheulu> Ok...
20100616 22:27:17< Unnheulu> (Wow)
20100616 22:28:21< grzywacz> Wow? There's even #Unnheulu
20100616 22:28:27< Unnheulu> Heh
20100616 22:28:40< shadowmaster> and ##shadowm
20100616 22:28:40< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: 32 MB of RAM?
20100616 22:28:42< Aethaeryn> really?
20100616 22:28:49< Unnheulu> Is there really a #frogatto with >1 people then? :P
20100616 22:28:51< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: it had 16 MB originally
20100616 22:28:56< grzywacz> There are even channels for all numbers, like #5,0
20100616 22:29:02< Aethaeryn> I just bought 6 2 GB RAM sticks...
20100616 22:29:04< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: why don't you join it and see?
20100616 22:29:06< Aethaeryn> :o
20100616 22:29:08< shadowmaster> nobody will eat you
20100616 22:29:31< shadowmaster> that motherboard should support up to 64 MB of RAM
20100616 22:29:45< shadowmaster> but I doubt I can find SIMM modules nowadays, in good state
20100616 22:29:47< grzywacz> My first PC had 8 megs and it was a lot at that time. ;)
20100616 22:29:56 * Gambit eats Unnheulu
20100616 22:29:59< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: idot
20100616 22:30:01< Aethaeryn> 64 MB of RAM?
20100616 22:30:05< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: *idiot
20100616 22:30:08< Gambit> shadowmaster: Did I hear you say Frogotto uses WML?
20100616 22:30:10< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: have you thought of replacing the motherboard?
20100616 22:30:12< Unnheulu> afk
20100616 22:30:25< shadowmaster> Gambit: I don't know about Frogotto
20100616 22:30:33< Aethaeryn> Gambit: it does use WML
20100616 22:30:40< Aethaeryn> and sprite sheets or something
20100616 22:30:43< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: why would I if I have a better computer?
20100616 22:30:57< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: oh
20100616 22:30:58< Aethaeryn> okay
20100616 22:31:17< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: what specs in your new comp?
20100616 22:31:26< shadowmaster> #new"?
20100616 22:31:30< shadowmaster> they are old
20100616 22:31:32-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20100616 22:31:35< Aethaeryn> *newer
20100616 22:32:01< Aethaeryn> new is relative
20100616 22:32:24< grzywacz> Aethaeryn, how many rendering pipelines does your gfx chipset have and what's the level of associativity of the CPU L1 cache in your rig?
20100616 22:32:26< Aethaeryn> East Timor is new at 2002 by country standards, ancient by computer standards
20100616 22:32:36< shadowmaster> besides this computer with an Intel Pentium (166 MHz) with 32 MB of RAM and 1.18 GB HDD (it has an onboard S3 Trio64V+ graphics controller with its own 1 MB of VRAM)
20100616 22:32:50< Aethaeryn> grzywacz: I kinda kept it from totally blowing the budget by saving on the graphics
20100616 22:33:03< shadowmaster> I also have an Intel Celeron (1.3 GHz) with 256 MB of RAM and 40 GB HDD (onboard Intel 810-based controller)
20100616 22:33:10< Aethaeryn> the case can handle up to 7 slots that fit graphics cards, but the motherboard only 3 ;)
20100616 22:33:21< Aethaeryn> so if I need to get more graphics I can just get another one without removing the old one
20100616 22:33:27< grzywacz> "slots that fit graphics cards"?
20100616 22:33:35< Aethaeryn> anyway
20100616 22:33:50< Aethaeryn> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002U0KEPY/ref=oss_product
20100616 22:33:55< shadowmaster> and an Intel Pentium 4 (2.6 GHz) with 1 GB of RAM and 160 GB HDD (onboard VIA controller)
20100616 22:33:59< Aethaeryn> which unfortunately is estimated to arrive a day later tahn the rest of the set
20100616 22:34:01< shadowmaster> then there's the laptops
20100616 22:34:14< Aethaeryn> grzywacz: I'm a Linux guy
20100616 22:34:17< Aethaeryn> I know the least about the graphics
20100616 22:35:15< Aethaeryn> it's an intel i7 quadcore 2.8 GHz with 12 GB RAM and a 1 TB HDD and that graphics card thing
20100616 22:35:25< shadowmaster> AMD Athlon64 (single core, forgot clock speed) with 1 GB of RAM and 100 GB HDD (onboard ATI r300-based controller)
20100616 22:36:02< Aethaeryn> it uses a server motherboard with 3 ethernet ports... the motherboard was cheaper and with more pci things...
20100616 22:36:05< shadowmaster> AMD Athlon (dual core, 2 GHz) with 4 GB of RAM and 250 GB HDD (onboard ATI r600-based controller (ATI Radeon HD 3200, RS780))
20100616 22:36:17< Aethaeryn> so basically I now have a server, but I can't overuse it on the web since I would probably blow Comcast's Internet limit.
20100616 22:36:29< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: taking note?
20100616 22:36:41< shadowmaster> or am I talking to myself? :P
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20100616 22:37:15< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: I am.
20100616 22:37:18< Aethaeryn> you have 4 computers?
20100616 22:37:27< shadowmaster> 3 desktops
20100616 22:37:29< shadowmaster> 2 laptops.
20100616 22:37:35< Aethaeryn> ugh
20100616 22:37:39< Aethaeryn> well, then.
20100616 22:37:58< Aethaeryn> why am I taking a math class?
20100616 22:38:30< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: so you keep using your old one still?
20100616 22:38:33< Aethaeryn> the really old one?
20100616 22:39:16< shadowmaster> yes
20100616 22:39:21< shadowmaster> wait, no
20100616 22:39:26< shadowmaster> I'm not using it
20100616 22:39:38< shadowmaster> it's useless since the hardware clock gets reset to 1901
20100616 22:40:02< Aethaeryn> why?
20100616 22:40:04< shadowmaster> which can confuse the crap out of certain operating system running on it (Windows 95)
20100616 22:40:12< Aethaeryn> 95? XD
20100616 22:40:14< shadowmaster> because the CMOS RAM battery expired
20100616 22:40:50< shadowmaster> and I'm too lazy to go buy one of those little lithium batteries ot steal one from one of my calculators
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20100616 22:41:21< Aethaeryn> you don't have Linux on it?
20100616 22:41:32< shadowmaster> no
20100616 22:41:54< shadowmaster> the other computers all have some flavor of Linux
20100616 22:41:58< Aethaeryn> I hear Yggdrasil Linux/GNU/X is "Plug-and-Play"
20100616 22:42:30< shadowmaster> I could get rid of openSUSE 10.3 in my newest desktop now that I have a reliable Internet connection
20100616 22:42:46< shadowmaster> but I'm afraid of a major HDD crash
20100616 22:43:33< shadowmaster> the swap partition is already dangerous to use, and a vfat partition that was in it is unusable
20100616 22:46:14< elias> oh no, looks like apple is removing GPL software from the appstore
20100616 22:47:05< Aethaeryn> damn it, should've started porting Wesnoth to Android this summer
20100616 22:47:44< elias> if android jus would allow C++ code (and SDL)
20100616 22:48:19< Aethaeryn> NDK
20100616 22:48:27< Aethaeryn> and someone ported SDL through the NDK I think
20100616 22:48:30< Aethaeryn> googed it a while back
20100616 22:48:34< Aethaeryn> that's the main dependency
20100616 22:48:44< Aethaeryn> the main issue would be GUI and size I think
20100616 22:49:39< elias> GUI should be fine on devices with a big screen
20100616 22:49:54< elias> iphone 4 has 960x640 or so
20100616 22:50:04< elias> some android devices probabyl even bigger
20100616 22:50:24< Aethaeryn> 800x480 is the Nexus One I think
20100616 22:50:29< Aethaeryn> Droid is similar but slightly smaller
20100616 22:50:40< Aethaeryn> so you'd want to set a baseline at the Droid resolution if you set it high
20100616 22:51:11< Aethaeryn> remember, if people hold on phones for 2 years, not everyone is going to have resolutions coming in the fall or later
20100616 22:53:06< elias> well, the iphone code is available anyway, it works on 320x480 even
20100616 22:53:34< elias> no good idea using that as base though, considering what Ivanovic said about that code :P
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20100616 22:53:54< Aethaeryn> probably in objective C
20100616 22:54:01< Aethaeryn> while I would have to write parts of the code in Java
20100616 22:54:11< Aethaeryn> since the NDK isn't everything I don't think.
20100616 22:54:22< Aethaeryn> plus, I kinda don't like certain approaches in the iPhone port
20100616 22:54:42< elias> yeah, i didn't like it either
20100616 22:54:58< elias> ipad otoh is fine, but i guess it uses the normal UI
20100616 22:54:59< Aethaeryn> I want something that changes as little from upstream as possible, so the Android port only comes a few days after the actual new stables
20100616 22:55:21< Aethaeryn> and so they're on the latest MP server, even able to download add-ons, which iirc you can't do in the iPhone one
20100616 22:55:25< Aethaeryn> I don't know
20100616 22:55:31< Aethaeryn> I'm not going to buy an iPod touch to test it out
20100616 22:55:43< Aethaeryn> but I don't like the pick a new UMC campaign every release thing
20100616 22:55:52< Aethaeryn> there's not that many good campaigns
20100616 22:55:57< Aethaeryn> you'll run out in a year or two tops
20100616 22:56:10< Aethaeryn> since you'll be adding campaigns faster than they're making good campaigns
20100616 22:56:15< elias> if GPL is really removed it won't be up so long
20100616 22:56:22< elvish_sovereign> wait, Delfador's memoirs are is not the iPhone, right?
20100616 22:56:25< Aethaeryn> eh, it might not be removed.
20100616 22:56:30< Aethaeryn> but regardless...
20100616 22:56:37< elvish_sovereign> are -> is
20100616 22:56:38< Aethaeryn> I'm an "insider" so I'd do it way different
20100616 22:56:49< Aethaeryn> I'd also probably release it for free
20100616 22:57:11< elias> me too
20100616 22:57:13-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100616 22:57:26< Aethaeryn> It is one thing to release something that people will pay for... It is a totally different thing to release something that people will pay for, and not charge them for it.
20100616 22:57:28< elias> if i still had some more free time i'd try and compile 1.8 for the ipad
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--- Log closed Thu Jun 17 00:00:35 2010