--- Log opened Sun Jul 11 00:00:31 2010
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20100711 00:26:16< Elvish_Pillager> ha ha what
20100711 00:26:43< Elvish_Pillager> I've just found another way to crash the game: have a die event that raises a unit's hitpoints when it's being plagued
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20100711 01:03:24< CIA-87> zookeeper * r44094 /trunk/data/core/macros/items.cfg: Fixed a mistyped key name reported on the forums.
20100711 01:05:15< CIA-87> zookeeper * r44095 /branches/1.8/data/core/macros/items.cfg: Ported r44094 to 1.8.
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20100711 01:13:53< CIA-87> billynux * r44096 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 3 dirs): Fixed a memory bug in the cleanup of an ana::client and started work to improve raw mode to implement the server.
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20100711 01:37:23< CIA-87> eleazar * r44097 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: fixing various terrain glitches
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20100711 02:24:32< billynux> I'm off folks
20100711 02:24:43< CIA-87> billynux * r44098 /trunk/src/ (3 files): More work on ana's server, implemented send_raw_data.
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20100711 06:28:19< CIA-87> alink * r44099 /trunk/src/ (display.cpp game_display.cpp):
20100711 06:28:19< CIA-87> Activate animation in editor. Can still be disabled in preferences.
20100711 06:28:19< CIA-87> Fix weird update of animated terrains when touching the map.
20100711 06:28:19< CIA-87> Mainly useful to design/debug animated terrains but will also allow to use
20100711 06:28:19< CIA-87> animation in editor UI.
20100711 06:28:27< CIA-87> alink * r44100 /trunk/src/ (builder.cpp builder.hpp):
20100711 06:28:27< CIA-87> Improve random start of animation
20100711 06:28:27< CIA-87> This fix a rare synchronization in the top half-hexes and prevent unwanted
20100711 06:28:27< CIA-87> synchronization between different rules. Also needed for future plans.
20100711 06:28:28< CIA-87> alink * r44101 /trunk/src/ (display.cpp display.hpp): Better separate fog/shroud generation from terrain images
20100711 06:28:30< CIA-87> alink * r44102 /trunk/src/ (builder.cpp builder.hpp display.cpp display.hpp): change bad type name
20100711 06:28:34< CIA-87> alink * r44103 /trunk/src/builder.cpp: Simplify some redundancy in background/foreground terrain cases
20100711 06:36:26< silene> alink: concerning bug #16243, i'm not sure this is the correct fix (but i haven't looked at the code yet); the replay should have contained wml code without toplevel [lua] tags in the first place, so the actual issue may be elsewhere
20100711 06:40:26< alink> silene: ok, I just copy-pasted to play_replay from other similar code (play_campaign etc..), but I suppose that replay data could be the problem
20100711 06:40:33< alink> but at that point
20100711 06:40:53< alink> ... I was focusing to make that replay work to diagnose a bug
20100711 06:45:24< alink> what is weird (at least to my low level of understanding of this area) is that network MP seems to work fine. I always assumed that MP was just some replay data communication
20100711 06:45:52< alink> which obviously is a over-simplified view
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20100711 08:41:59< Ivanovic> moin
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20100711 09:32:22< boucman> morning all
20100711 09:40:14< Ivanovic> boucman, crab_, fendrin, mordante: please do not forget that mid term evals start tomorrow in the afternoon/evening
20100711 09:40:27< Ivanovic> please make sure to fill them as early as possible so that we are sure that they are submitted
20100711 09:40:40< fendrin> Ivanovic: okay
20100711 09:40:57< Ivanovic> billynux, gabba, timotei, Upthorn: don't forget to file your mid terms or you won't get the 2nd payment
20100711 09:40:58< Ivanovic> ;)
20100711 09:41:34< boucman> noted
20100711 09:41:44< Upthorn> there are at least 23 hours 18 minutes before that will become possible
20100711 09:45:45< Upthorn> reminders are more useful once the action in question is possible to perform :)
20100711 09:47:52< Ivanovic> Upthorn: it is more of a case of "be prepared"
20100711 09:48:03< Upthorn> ah. Ok then.
20100711 09:52:30< Ivanovic> cf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCAw5EYzen8
20100711 10:12:08< Ivanovic> gabba: (hoping you read the logs...) regarding the "providing instructions for failbreaking": bad idea doing so by wesnoth which is a registered "company" in the US, ever head of the DCMA? there might be a clause in there against breaking restriction systems like the one by apple...
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20100711 12:08:23< mordante> servus
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20100711 12:18:58< timotei> morning :)
20100711 12:19:35< mordante> hi timotei
20100711 12:20:09< timotei> hi mordante :)
20100711 12:20:16< timotei> how are you doin?
20100711 12:20:27< mordante> good and you?
20100711 12:20:46< timotei> me 2. prepearing to finish one gsoc milestone:D
20100711 12:20:55< mordante> :-)
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20100711 13:09:24< timotei> morning fendrin
20100711 13:09:35< fendrin> hi timotei
20100711 13:09:43-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100711 13:10:03< timotei> after wml syntax highlighting there is:
20100711 13:10:03< timotei> Highlighting start/end tags.
20100711 13:10:11< timotei> what is that supposed to do, exactly?
20100711 13:11:04< fendrin> timotei: Have you ever seen eclipse matching open and closing parentheses which each other?
20100711 13:11:12< timotei> yes
20100711 13:11:24< Unnheulu> timotei, if you click in one of the tags, it highlights the other tag
20100711 13:11:33< Unnheulu> So like, if you click the opening, the closing highlights
20100711 13:11:33< timotei> so, when the cursor is over a tag, it should highlight it's pair?
20100711 13:11:39< fendrin> right.
20100711 13:11:41< timotei> ok
20100711 13:12:06 * Unnheulu thinks timotei should make a specialised WML editor
20100711 13:12:18< Unnheulu> :P
20100711 13:12:22< timotei> Unnheulu: that's what I'm doing :)
20100711 13:12:33< Unnheulu> Your making an eclipse plugin ;)
20100711 13:12:42< timotei> with WML editor
20100711 13:12:43< timotei> ;)
20100711 13:12:57< Unnheulu> Not so much specialised, as causing an existing one to do that as well as other stuff :)
20100711 13:12:58< mordante> gabba regarding r43977 IIRC defining the static log_domain in the header is an ODR violation so better move it to a .cpp file
20100711 13:14:07 * Unnheulu yawns
20100711 13:14:12< Unnheulu> timotei, you could've done up campgen
20100711 13:14:48< Unnheulu> s/done\ up/rewritten/
20100711 13:15:20< boucman> campgen wasn't adapted to what we wanted to do...
20100711 13:15:42 * Unnheulu wishes that sarcasm was visible over the internet
20100711 13:16:21< mordante> That's completely impossible
20100711 13:16:31< boucman> :P
20100711 13:17:03< Unnheulu> That's subtle
20100711 13:18:03< Unnheulu> :/
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20100711 13:38:10< timotei> Unnheulu: I chose the eclipse plugin, and that's on what I'll work ;)
20100711 13:38:17< Unnheulu> :P
20100711 13:38:49< Unnheulu> Is anyone doing persistant variables?
20100711 13:39:01 * Unnheulu hopes someone is
20100711 13:39:37< Crab_> yes, Upthorn is working on them.
20100711 13:39:42< Unnheulu> Yay :)
20100711 13:39:51< Unnheulu> Crab_, is he finished yet?
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20100711 13:44:52< Unnheulu> Ugh
20100711 13:44:58< Unnheulu> The bridge still doesn't work :(
20100711 13:45:12 * Unnheulu wonders just *how* hard a bridge can be
20100711 13:45:46< Crab_> he's done it for SP (some cleanup needed in there, still), but he still has to do it for MP (this/next month)
20100711 13:46:06< Unnheulu> How would it work for mp :/
20100711 13:46:40< Crab_> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/PersistenceWML
20100711 13:47:01< Crab_> basically, 'read global variable BAR from player 4 into local variable FOO'
20100711 13:47:15 * Gambit likes that article
20100711 13:47:37< Unnheulu> Hmm
20100711 13:47:43< Crab_> or, in other definitions, 'read persistent variable BAR from computer of player 4 into normal WML variable FOO'
20100711 13:47:45< Unnheulu> You have to have it as a local variable first?
20100711 13:49:22< Crab_> yes, before usage, the variable has to be 'loaded' from storage. we've decide to make that loading explicit, because it's time-consuming operation in case of MP - it's hard to operate directly with persistent variable stored on computer of another person, it's better to transmit it over the network and then work on it as a normal variable.
20100711 13:51:46 * Gambit will eat Unnheulu's eyeballs out if he is trolling the persistence team right now...
20100711 13:52:01< Unnheulu> Huh?
20100711 13:52:32< Gambit> Just saying.
20100711 13:52:34< timotei> :))
20100711 13:53:09< Unnheulu> Gambit, I made loads of enemies recently :)
20100711 13:53:44< Unnheulu> I said I would rewrite campgen with a function to create .pbl's, it didn't go down well ;d
20100711 13:53:45< Unnheulu> :D
20100711 13:54:14< Unnheulu> (For the record, I don't intend on doing that anymore)
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20100711 14:16:25< timotei> hmm, zookeeper macros can be attached virtually anywhere?:-S
20100711 14:16:42< zookeeper> timotei, yes
20100711 14:16:58< timotei> what kind of macro is this: ??sound={SOUND_LIST:BAT_HIT}
20100711 14:17:13< zookeeper> look at core/macros/sound-utils.cfg
20100711 14:17:40< zookeeper> colons are valid in macro names, there's nothing special about it there
20100711 14:18:19< timotei> oh, there they were
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20100711 15:33:30< Unnheulu> boucman, the nw/se bridge doesn't work properly in r44103
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20100711 15:33:47< Unnheulu> (put a mountain to its n/e)
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20100711 15:33:57< Unnheulu> Ignore me, you mentioned that >.<
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20100711 16:05:13< timotei> zookeeper: does one usually use another characters than: [a-zA-Z0-9:_-] in a macro?
20100711 16:06:10< timotei> oh, and space of course
20100711 16:18:53< e_s-iOS> mordante: So I'm told you're working on a UI facelift for Wesnoth?
20100711 16:20:07< mordante> e_s-iOS, yes I am
20100711 16:20:13< e_s-iOS> Cool
20100711 16:20:36< e_s-iOS> IMHO Wesnoth could really use that
20100711 16:20:53< e_s-iOS> What parts are you planning to upgrade?
20100711 16:23:04< mordante> well I mainly do the code side (although not much time to work on it lately)
20100711 16:23:19< e_s-iOS> Oh
20100711 16:23:23< mordante> so not sure what kind of improvements you're looking for
20100711 16:23:35< e_s-iOS> A UI change
20100711 16:23:53< e_s-iOS> Not so much in the gameplay part, but a lot of everything else
20100711 16:23:54< mordante> as in how the elements look or more their placement
20100711 16:24:05< e_s-iOS> I dunno
20100711 16:24:12< e_s-iOS> I guess
20100711 16:24:24< e_s-iOS> Both I think
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20100711 16:25:03< mordante> the real look needs to be done by an artist West once started to work on it, but that project seems postponed
20100711 16:25:27< e_s-iOS> Hmm
20100711 16:25:50< e_s-iOS> I've seen that thread
20100711 16:26:07< e_s-iOS> It mostly seems to deal with more minor details
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20100711 16:26:35< e_s-iOS> Wait no
20100711 16:26:46< e_s-iOS> It has some important changes too
20100711 16:27:00< zookeeper> timotei, no, and spaces aren't allowed
20100711 16:27:59< timotei> well, {SCATTER_IMAGE (terrain=Re) 1 scenery/rubble.png} this is in Defend_the_forest scenario
20100711 16:28:57< zookeeper> where's the space?
20100711 16:29:12< timotei> well, between parameters :D
20100711 16:29:14< Unnheulu> Seperating the arguments?
20100711 16:29:17< zookeeper> uh, ok...
20100711 16:29:35< zookeeper> in that case, no, any conceivable character can be used in macros
20100711 16:29:55< timotei> but in what case you were talking? the name of the macro?
20100711 16:29:59< zookeeper> yes
20100711 16:30:04< timotei> ok
20100711 16:30:14< Unnheulu> Including £?
20100711 16:30:19< zookeeper> naturally the arguments in a macro call can contain anything
20100711 16:31:17< timotei> OMG :O
20100711 16:31:24< timotei> the wind is blowing SO HARD:O
20100711 16:31:33< timotei> brb gotta get the clothes from outside
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20100711 16:41:02< esr> zookeeper: ping?
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20100711 16:41:24< e_s-iOS> Back
20100711 16:42:05< zookeeper> esr, yes?
20100711 16:42:33< esr> I'm looking at some wmlscope messages that might indicate a problem.
20100711 16:44:56< zookeeper> okay
20100711 16:45:21< esr> In data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_worker_options.cfg, please look at line 74, the MENU_IMG_TEXT2 call. Why does the path in the first argument not require images/ or core/images/ in front of it?
20100711 16:47:09< zookeeper> esr, uh, because the images/ prefix is never required for image paths?
20100711 16:48:09< zookeeper> it's implicit. if core/ is [binary_path]ed, then images are automatically searched in images/, music in music/, sounds in sounds/
20100711 16:48:20< esr> Then something else is goiung on. wmlscope is objecting to those paths in the MENU_IMG_TXT2 calls *and only those*.
20100711 16:48:37< esr> I thinks they're undefined references.
20100711 16:48:51< esr> s/I thinks/It thinks/
20100711 16:50:15< Unnheulu> esr, so your that genius python programmer
20100711 16:50:53< zookeeper> esr, odd
20100711 16:51:08< zookeeper> did you check that the path is actually still valid and the images haven't simply been renamed/moved?
20100711 16:51:12< esr> Unnheulu: I wrote wmlscope, if that's what you mean.
20100711 16:51:12 * Unnheulu can't recall ever seeing you in pyweek or ludumdare
20100711 16:51:28< Unnheulu> esr, didn't you also do wmlint?
20100711 16:51:39< esr> Unnheulu: Yes.
20100711 16:52:06< esr> zookeeper: I'll check.
20100711 16:52:26< Unnheulu> In fact, I can only think of one wesnoth developer who takes part in them
20100711 16:54:21< esr> zookeeper: Checking the first one, it looks like they may be wrong because of the subdirectory reorganization of the terrain images. Your addition of the .png suffix exposed this.
20100711 16:54:59< esr> (Which was a good thing...)
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20100711 16:55:40< zookeeper> esr, ok. if you need details of the renamings then...(oh, speak of the devil :P) then ask eleazar
20100711 16:55:54< eleazar_> ?
20100711 16:56:29< esr> eleazar_: Issues with terrain graphic references that didn't get edited when you reorganized that directory.
20100711 16:56:35< zookeeper> eleazar_, i'm guessing you haven't updated all references to some terrain images you've moved around, but i'll let you and esr sort that out...
20100711 16:56:51< e_s-iOS> ::)
20100711 16:57:04< esr> # Unresolved references:
20100711 16:57:06< esr> "../../data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_worker_options.cfg", line 59 -> terrain/flat/grass6.png
20100711 16:57:08< esr> "../../data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_worker_options.cfg", line 74 -> terrain/flat/farm-veg-spring-icon.png
20100711 16:57:09< esr> "../../data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_worker_options.cfg", line 158 -> terrain/flat/grass6.png
20100711 16:57:10< esr> "../../data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_worker_options.cfg", line 245 -> terrain/flat/grass6.png
20100711 16:57:14< esr> "../../data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_worker_options.cfg", line 281 -> terrain/flat/grass6.png
20100711 16:57:15< esr> "../../data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_worker_options.cfg", line 302 -> terrain/flat/grass6.png
20100711 16:57:17< esr> "../../data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_worker_options.cfg", line 402 -> terrain/flat/grass6.png
20100711 16:57:19< esr> That's the set.
20100711 16:57:29< Unnheulu> 2 images?
20100711 16:57:42< esr> Yes.
20100711 16:58:32< eleazar_> first one shoudl be /terrain/grass/green6.png
20100711 16:59:27< eleazar_> other one /terrain/embellishments/farm-veg-spring-icon.png
20100711 17:00:27< esr> Testing, please hold...
20100711 17:01:24< esr> eleazar_: BTW, Valkier is proving good to work with. He's very responsive to suggestions.
20100711 17:02:08< eleazar_> is he doing those NR portraits?
20100711 17:02:58< esr> eleazar_: Yes, that's right. I'm the NR coauthor/naintainer.
20100711 17:04:20< eleazar_> yeah i remember
20100711 17:04:36< esr> eleazar_: OK, those changes fixed the broken terrain references. Will commit.
20100711 17:04:40< eleazar_> esr did you get my PM about converting terrain codes?
20100711 17:04:47< eleazar_> good
20100711 17:05:24< esr> Haven't read my PMs in a while, will check. I see two bugs about redundant private terrains, was that it?
20100711 17:05:43< eleazar_> no that's different
20100711 17:06:20< esr> I'll look.
20100711 17:06:37< CIA-87> esr * r44104 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ANL_worker_options.cfg: Conform some terrain references to the new shape of the imafes directory.
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20100711 18:12:19< CIA-87> alink * r44105 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Update changelogs
20100711 18:13:31< alink> perhaps also add a "wiki.wesnoth.org" radio button under the google search bar of the main page ?
20100711 18:14:34< alink> (wiki search is weak, and searching wesnoth.org gives mainly forum links)
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20100711 18:45:48< CIA-87> ivanovic * r44106 /trunk/ (data/core/about.cfg po/wesnoth-low/zh_CN.po): updated Chinese (simplified) translation
20100711 18:45:53< CIA-87> ivanovic * r44107 /branches/1.8/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated Chinese (simplified) translation
20100711 18:50:53< CIA-87> mordante * r44108 /trunk/CMakeLists.txt:
20100711 18:50:53< CIA-87> Set the proper flags for the cmake RELEASE build.
20100711 18:50:53< CIA-87> Gabba discovered the problem and added a fix in r43834. This change has
20100711 18:50:53< CIA-87> a better suppression by turning unused variables to warnings instead of
20100711 18:50:53< CIA-87> error.
20100711 18:51:01< CIA-87> mordante * r44109 /trunk/src/ (gui/widgets/generator.cpp menu_events.cpp server/server.cpp):
20100711 18:51:01< CIA-87> Code improvements over r43834 due to last rev.
20100711 18:51:01< CIA-87> With the unused variable now being a warning some work-arounds
20100711 18:51:01< CIA-87> introduced in r43834 are no longer needed. Other improvements remove the
20100711 18:51:02< CIA-87> temporary variable by directly testing the function result in the
20100711 18:51:02< CIA-87> assert.
20100711 18:51:06< CIA-87> mordante * r44110 /trunk/ (CMakeLists.txt src/CMakeLists.txt):
20100711 18:51:06< CIA-87> ANA cmake cleanups.
20100711 18:51:06< CIA-87> - Set the option and dependency check in the top level file.
20100711 18:51:06< CIA-87> - Directy add the ana/src directoy avoiding two new options being pulled
20100711 18:51:07< CIA-87> in.
20100711 18:51:08< CIA-87> mordante * r44111 /trunk/src/network_ana.cpp: Fix a compiler ambiguity between two functions.
20100711 18:51:11< CIA-87> mordante * r44112 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Add several virtual destructors.
20100711 18:51:13< CIA-87> mordante * r44113 /trunk/src/CMakeLists.txt:
20100711 18:51:13< CIA-87> Some more cmake cleanups for ANA.
20100711 18:51:13< CIA-87> Don't use the library name hardcoded but set it in a variable.
20100711 18:51:17< CIA-87> mordante * r44114 /trunk/src/CMakeLists.txt:
20100711 18:51:17< CIA-87> Add some hacks to cmake to get ANA compiling.
20100711 18:51:17< CIA-87> Some targets need extra files or libraries when compiled with ana. This
20100711 18:51:17< CIA-87> should be sorted out once ANA is no longer an option.
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20100711 18:56:25< billynux> hi all, mordante
20100711 18:56:55< mordante> hi billynux
20100711 18:57:19< billynux> I see you've been fiddling with the code :)
20100711 18:57:20< mordante> billynux, I just committed some cmake fixes and ana fixes
20100711 18:57:34< billynux> good, thanks
20100711 18:58:05< mordante> yeah somehow I thought I already had the switch enabled, but if was off again (probably do some of my own scripts)
20100711 18:58:27< billynux> mordante, have you tested it's functionality?
20100711 18:59:10< mordante> billynux, not yet want to do that after dinner, which I was just about to have
20100711 18:59:29< billynux> ok
20100711 18:59:46< mordante> so off to dinner now and start to test afterwards
20100711 19:00:58< billynux> see you then
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20100711 19:02:34< CIA-87> esr * r44115 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Address bug #16241: UtBS contains redundant custom terrain.
20100711 19:06:59< CIA-87> esr * r44116 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/images/terrain/ (dark_tile1.png dark_tile2.png dark_tile3.png): Remove some images left unused by the Ryd -> Urb change.
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20100711 19:15:33< CIA-87> esr * r44117 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (9 files in 3 dirs):
20100711 19:15:33< CIA-87> Remove unused Etheral Abyss terrain (Qea), there's an improved version in
20100711 19:15:33< CIA-87> mainline as Qxua if it's ever needed.
20100711 19:15:33< CIA-87> Addresses bug #16240: Delfador's Memoirs contains redundant custom Terrain.
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20100711 19:42:54< billynux> hi timotei
20100711 19:42:58< timotei> hi billynux :-)
20100711 19:43:33< boucman> afk
20100711 19:43:37< timotei> billynux: how are you doing/how's going?
20100711 19:43:52< timotei> btw what GMT are you in?
20100711 19:44:01< billynux> timotei, great, I've been reading the dev ML about the iPhone port
20100711 19:44:13< billynux> I'm in GMT -3, it's 14:45 here
20100711 19:44:13< timotei> billynux: oh yeah, I've read it too :D
20100711 19:44:19< timotei> oh... nice
20100711 19:44:36< billynux> you? +3?
20100711 19:45:13< timotei> +2 :P
20100711 19:45:16< timotei> brb shower
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20100711 19:51:08< mordante> billynux, ok just installed an addon so that seems to work
20100711 19:51:33< billynux> mordante, as you probably saw, there is no current support for the current/current_max features
20100711 19:51:48< mordante> current/current_max?
20100711 19:51:52< billynux> as an incoming packet is only logged after complete/successful reception
20100711 19:52:09< billynux> yes, it's the way the update the progress bar
20100711 19:52:12< mordante> ah you mean the progress indication
20100711 19:52:44< mordante> I didn't notice, downloaded the smallest addon on the server ;-)
20100711 19:52:55< mordante> will try with a larger one
20100711 19:53:12< billynux> yes.... I go from 0 to 100%, since ana doesn't log partial information
20100711 19:53:33< billynux> mordante, you get fooled by the 0 progress indication
20100711 19:54:41< mordante> like I said tested with the smallest one available so downloading was instantly ;-) (so need to test with a larger one)
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20100711 19:55:09< billynux> I haven't looked properly in the reference, but I should find something that allows me to do this
20100711 19:55:46< mordante> I see now indeed it's `stuck' at 0 percent
20100711 19:57:05< timotei> billynux: maybe simulate an "old-windows" progress bar?;))
20100711 19:57:14< timotei> billynux: temporary.
20100711 19:57:26< timotei> billynux: increase by 1 percent on each 500 ms or so
20100711 19:57:27< timotei> :))
20100711 19:57:34< timotei> better get it stuck at 100% than at 0%
20100711 19:57:40< timotei> or no?
20100711 19:57:59< Unnheulu> Hah
20100711 19:58:01< billynux> timotei, :) the problem is my ANA api doesn't allow me to know of any received statistics before the complete packet has arrive
20100711 19:58:21< timotei> hmm
20100711 19:58:40< timotei> well, you could try, enabling a "download" mode, where the packets are very small
20100711 19:58:56< billynux> timotei, if you want to lie creatively, make it a 50% increase of the previous progress.... a little like the turtle... 50, 75, 87, .... (never finishes)
20100711 19:59:01< timotei> (didn't worked with networking (so much) so I don't really know exactly)
20100711 19:59:11< Unnheulu> eleazar_, committed more terrains?
20100711 19:59:12< mordante> timotei, good idea let's also add the estimated time to complete the download ;-P
20100711 19:59:23< timotei> mordante: what idea?:-S
20100711 19:59:30< Unnheulu> Ah, deleted duplicates
20100711 19:59:33< timotei> billynux: or do it like the "sven" game :))
20100711 19:59:47< mordante> timotei, the 1 percent increase every 500ms
20100711 19:59:48< timotei> billynux: go to 100%, pass to 120%, get back to 80, 60, 90
20100711 19:59:55< billynux> haha
20100711 20:00:10< elias> estimated time: 9s, 9.5s, 9.75s, 9.875s, ...
20100711 20:00:31< timotei> elias: :))
20100711 20:00:51< timotei> hey... but anyways, a better idea: add a marquee;)
20100711 20:01:08< timotei> so the users sees "action" even it won't know how it's progressing.
20100711 20:01:18< mordante> marquee?
20100711 20:01:32< timotei> yeah
20100711 20:01:53< timotei> one sec
20100711 20:02:03< billynux> mordante, well... I could always do async_receive_some and keep those stats logged, and only report after completion
20100711 20:02:07< billynux> mordante, that should work
20100711 20:02:11< timotei> http://www.devexpress.com/Help/XtraEditors/img/MarqueeProgressBar.gif
20100711 20:02:30< mordante> ah ok
20100711 20:02:33< timotei> or there is the version that stop at the end and gets back and forth
20100711 20:03:06< mordante> billynux, my Wesnoth just terminated with terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::runtime_error'\n what(): send_all_except is not finished.
20100711 20:03:25< billynux> mordante, yes... this is ok
20100711 20:03:57< mordante> billynux, yes I think the receive some is the way to go also for the watchdog feature
20100711 20:04:00< billynux> mordante, i.e. it's implementation is not functional, so I prefer to throw
20100711 20:04:09< mordante> ah ok
20100711 20:05:05< billynux> mordante, let me see if I can update the listener with receive_some
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20100711 20:06:35< mordante> I get this when I start a MP game that is I get into the created game it shows a message and when I click it away wesnoth terminates
20100711 20:06:40< mordante> billynux, ok
20100711 20:07:28< billynux> mordante, yes, I know about it, and implementing the send_all_except won't be a problem (ana::server already has this feature ;) )
20100711 20:08:06< billynux> mordante, there is annoying checks to be made though, because the current net-api for wesnoth is for both client and servers (you will see many of them)
20100711 20:08:53< mordante> billynux, ok just wanted to be sure I saw the expected issue
20100711 20:10:24< billynux> mordante, are you having trouble with any other feature? add-ons/official server login/local login/wrong-url's
20100711 20:10:57< billynux> mordante, I think the current wrong-url/whatever message has to be implemented
20100711 20:16:44< mordante> the addon server properly tells me when the server can't be connected to
20100711 20:16:54< mordante> the MP server indeed misses that feature
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20100711 20:20:24< mordante> thusfar not ran into more problems as the one you expected :-)
20100711 20:22:11< billynux> mordante, great, I'm pleased to report that the async_read_some fix works :) (recursion FTW :D)
20100711 20:22:28< billynux> I have to remove the pointer arithmetic warning
20100711 20:22:40< billynux> (it doesn't like the base + accum :P )
20100711 20:24:54< billynux> hah, it worked using base_char()
20100711 20:25:42< timotei> wow, 10-12 seconds to start-up ecllipse with wesnoth's plugin
20100711 20:25:47< timotei> is that much for a program?
20100711 20:26:35< mordante> billynux, nice :-)
20100711 20:27:06< Unnheulu> timotei, wow, that's fast
20100711 20:27:16< timotei> Unnheulu: yeah
20100711 20:27:21< timotei> for eclipse it's fast
20100711 20:27:54< timotei> maybe in the polishing milestone I'll make even faster
20100711 20:27:59< Unnheulu> 36 seconds to load up here
20100711 20:28:15< timotei> and "trim" it to only wesnoth UMC plugin for those that need *only* that, and no other java things
20100711 20:28:17< Unnheulu> Only plugin is the android sdk (I guess that's most of the delay)
20100711 20:28:57< timotei> billynux: did you already prepeared your answers for that evaluation paper?:D
20100711 20:29:05< billynux> mordante, it now logs after every partial message, but I need to improve the wesnoth side
20100711 20:29:07< billynux> timotei, no
20100711 20:29:23< timotei> ok
20100711 20:30:07 * Unnheulu guesses that mordante is billynux's mentor
20100711 20:30:18< billynux> you guessed right :)
20100711 20:30:34< timotei> Unnheulu: I provoke you to guees them all:P
20100711 20:30:48< Unnheulu> Hmm...is Soliton timotei's mentor?
20100711 20:30:52< mordante> billynux, ok nice
20100711 20:30:59< timotei> Unnheulu: 2 more tries available
20100711 20:31:07< Unnheulu> timotei, sapient?
20100711 20:31:24< timotei> 1 remaining (and nothing starting with 's')
20100711 20:31:30< Unnheulu> Aha
20100711 20:31:34< Unnheulu> Crab
20100711 20:31:40< timotei> no
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20100711 20:31:48< Unnheulu> Doh!
20100711 20:31:59< Unnheulu> boucman?
20100711 20:32:12< timotei> btw, billynux, mordante do you know when to use the "pokemon way of handling exceptions"?
20100711 20:32:13< mordante> you named all but one mentor now ;-)
20100711 20:32:48< mordante> what's the "pokemon way of handling exceptions"?
20100711 20:33:03< timotei> when you 'gotta catch'em all' =))
20100711 20:33:26< mordante> you mean like in Java
20100711 20:33:46< timotei> or when you just throw: catch(Exception e)
20100711 20:33:48< timotei> :P
20100711 20:33:49< billynux> catch (const std::exception& e) ...
20100711 20:34:04< timotei> and don't "try" to catch only the one needed :D
20100711 20:34:22< timotei> there was a thread on stackoverflow with funny stuff like this made by developers:D
20100711 20:34:29< Unnheulu> Who's the other student?
20100711 20:34:33< Unnheulu> Upthorn?
20100711 20:34:45< timotei> we are 4
20100711 20:34:50< billynux> yup, gabba and Upthorn
20100711 20:34:50< Unnheulu> And Gabba?
20100711 20:34:54< Unnheulu> Humm
20100711 20:35:01< Unnheulu> timotei, so your with bouncman?
20100711 20:35:05< timotei> no
20100711 20:35:12< Unnheulu> Sirp? :P
20100711 20:35:15< timotei> there is no bouncman
20100711 20:35:25< timotei> told you there is no "s" in his name
20100711 20:35:42< Unnheulu> boucman then :/
20100711 20:35:50< Unnheulu> Oh yeah, forgot that
20100711 20:36:07< Unnheulu> Meh can't be bothered to guess
20100711 20:36:17< Unnheulu> Ivanovic?
20100711 20:36:21< timotei> :))
20100711 20:36:29< timotei> Ivanovic is the "grand mentor" if we want to talk
20100711 20:36:41< timotei> or something like this
20100711 20:36:47 * Unnheulu just realised he is hilighting all of the people he guess
20100711 20:36:48< Unnheulu> es
20100711 20:36:52 * Ivanovic is the evil overlord
20100711 20:36:53< timotei> =))
20100711 20:37:03< timotei> Unnheulu: that was the point
20100711 20:37:09< Ivanovic> and highlighting an overlord without anything to say is a bad idea!
20100711 20:37:32< Unnheulu> Is s1rp or sh@dowmaster mentoring? :P
20100711 20:37:34< mordante> timotei, but AFAIK Java users always need to play pokemon on C++ you can cherry-pick the exceptions you care about
20100711 20:37:45 * Unnheulu puts those characters there to not hilight them
20100711 20:37:49< timotei> yeah Java has some bad behavoir...
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20100711 20:38:06< timotei> but in the end it's ok, has many ways/classes for different types of things
20100711 20:38:22< mordante> in Jave you can statically test exceptions in C++ you can't
20100711 20:38:26< mordante> Java*
20100711 20:39:44< timotei> in which way test them "statically":-/
20100711 20:41:05< mordante> in Java the compiler can test which exceptions can be thrown and whether you handled them
20100711 20:41:12< mordante> this is impossible in C++
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20100711 20:42:04< timotei> oh, well, yeah, cause it has the keyword: throws on each function
20100711 20:42:12< timotei> actually, you can put it
20100711 20:42:16< timotei> it's not mandatory
20100711 20:42:41< mordante> and nobody uses it
20100711 20:43:06< mordante> and the standard library also has no exception specifications in their function signature
20100711 20:43:21< mordante> so it would be near impossible to do it in C++
20100711 20:43:34< timotei> :D
20100711 20:44:41< mordante> and in C++0x the exception specification will either be deprecated or removed (don't remember which one)
20100711 20:44:59< mordante> and there will be a nothrow for functions that don't throw
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20100711 21:04:21< CIA-87> timotei * r44118 /trunk/utils/java/ (57 files in 12 dirs): eclipse plugin: wml grammar recreation: macros, tags, keys, comments
20100711 21:04:43< CIA-87> timotei * r44119 /trunk/utils/java/ (13 files in 9 dirs): eclipse plugin: syntax highlighting for tags and keys
20100711 21:04:59< CIA-87> timotei * r44120 /trunk/utils/java/ (30 files in 11 dirs): eclipse plugin: wml grammar update
20100711 21:09:31< Unnheulu> timotei, why not just do one commit?
20100711 21:09:50< timotei> this aren't from today just the last
20100711 21:10:08< timotei> I'm commiting locally when I've finished a "category" of work
20100711 21:10:23< timotei> or when I want to have a safe "ground" so I can remove changes that are not good;)
20100711 21:10:25< timotei> I'm using git
20100711 21:10:37< timotei> and "huge" commits aren't recommened
20100711 21:11:05< timotei> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/DeveloperGuide
20100711 21:11:12 * Unnheulu has to use "huge" commits at xmoto due to a really innactive maintainer
20100711 21:11:14< timotei> points 2 and 3
20100711 21:11:29< Unnheulu> I end up sending a patch made up of like 10 patches from the last week
20100711 21:12:00< Unnheulu> Your patches are under review?
20100711 21:12:01< timotei> :-)
20100711 21:12:14< timotei> hmm, in which way?
20100711 21:12:22< timotei> they were before getting commit access
20100711 21:12:38< Unnheulu> As in, they get reviewed as they're committed
20100711 21:12:45< Unnheulu> Or when your mentor is awake ;P
20100711 21:12:54< timotei> well, yeah
20100711 21:13:07< Unnheulu> You have a java speaking mentor then
20100711 21:14:01< timotei> "java speaking"? that's funny
20100711 21:14:06< Unnheulu> Meh
20100711 21:14:16< timotei> ok, gotta go
20100711 21:14:23< Unnheulu> C'ya
20100711 21:14:25< timotei> good night billynux, mordante Unnheulu
20100711 21:14:36< billynux> good night timotei
20100711 21:14:52< timotei> fendrin: I need to finish tomorrow only the "match" begin/end tags
20100711 21:15:15< timotei> ops, now Unnheulu knows my mentor :)
20100711 21:15:21< mordante> night timotei
20100711 21:15:27-!- timotei [~Timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100711 21:15:32< Unnheulu> fabi's a mentor?
20100711 21:19:53-!- alink [~alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100711 21:21:26< CIA-87> billynux * r44121 /trunk/src/ana/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Updated the ana listener to log partially received messages, will help to fix progress bar issues in the game.
20100711 21:21:27< billynux> mordante, if ( ptr_ != NULL); ptr_->blabla(); //don't miss the ; after the if :)
20100711 21:21:48< billynux> segfault ftl
20100711 21:25:42< mordante> that's evil
20100711 21:26:02< billynux> indeed
20100711 21:26:06< mordante> IIRC gcc also warns you if you try that
20100711 21:26:19< billynux> It didn't to me :(
20100711 21:26:24< mordante> :-(
20100711 21:26:48< billynux> ok, I'm guessing I'll add the current/current_max to ana as something like last_packet_stats or something
20100711 21:27:08< mordante> ok
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20100711 21:28:14< billynux> mordante, the current implementation of ana_component::get_receive_stats in network_manager_ana.cpp:404 is flawed
20100711 21:30:00< mordante> ok
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20100711 21:33:41< mordocai> Hello. I was wondering where the code that controls movement and vision is located. I could probably eventually find it, but it would certainly be faster if someone who new the code base better simply pointed me in the right direction! I am wanting to write a patch in regards to this: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=30584. I know noy isn't signed off on it yet, but I figured I could go ahead and try to get an implementation running in
20100711 21:33:42< mordocai> my free time.
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20100711 21:33:51< noy> I'm not sure
20100711 21:34:14< noy> The problem mordocai is that I really really doubt we'd use your suggestion
20100711 21:34:26< Unnheulu> It can always go to experimental
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20100711 21:34:36< noy> Sure, still not going to happen
20100711 21:34:45< mordocai> Yeah. And it's good coding practice anyways.
20100711 21:34:55< mordocai> Plus i'll know a bunch more about the guts of the code base :)
20100711 21:35:18< noy> If I get your suggestion, you want to add a second "vision" statistics
20100711 21:35:20< Unnheulu> Like half my xmoto patches were rejected, but it helps me learn more C++ and the style there
20100711 21:35:31< Unnheulu> So even if its rejected its still worthwhile
20100711 21:35:45< noy> mordocai: if you want to learn, maybe looking at some open issues would be a better start
20100711 21:35:53< noy> or get a better sense of the code
20100711 21:36:28< mordocai> noy: Yeah. Basically another attribute that can -optionally- be set in WML. Default would use the current behavior. But the framework would be there to use WML and modify it.
20100711 21:36:50< noy> OAB
20100711 21:37:09< Unnheulu> noy, that's not an option as such
20100711 21:37:18< noy> so...
20100711 21:37:22< Unnheulu> It would just be an extra attribute you can add into the [unit]
20100711 21:37:26< Unnheulu> So OAB doesn't apply :P
20100711 21:37:32< noy> uh, no it would be
20100711 21:37:48< noy> because then you'd have two different systems, that is not clear when they operate or not
20100711 21:38:06< noy> thats not a good option to have here
20100711 21:38:14< Unnheulu> Well in the sidebar it could just say "Sight: x"
20100711 21:38:15< noy> its not clear nor kiss in this case
20100711 21:38:32< noy> then you've got another variable
20100711 21:38:39< noy> which is what we want to avoid
20100711 21:38:46< Unnheulu> Mainline could ignore it then
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20100711 21:39:09< noy> *Shrug* have fun with it in xp
20100711 21:39:18< Unnheulu> Then it'd be down to the umc authors to warn the player :P
20100711 21:39:27< Unnheulu> noy, for someone who supports it your awfully hostile
20100711 21:39:33< Unnheulu> Like Gambit said
20100711 21:40:01< mordocai> I think he supports the general idea. He just doesn't like any of the solutions offered so far.
20100711 21:40:12< noy> I've already discussed this with others, particularly what I'd like to see in this case
20100711 21:40:25< Unnheulu> Then why not tell us what you want in the forums
20100711 21:41:33< noy> First off I'm not a fan of the forums.
20100711 21:41:36< noy> we all know that
20100711 21:42:01< shadowmaster> what are we talking about?
20100711 21:42:13< noy> If I were to use the forums, it would be in developer discussions
20100711 21:42:17< shadowmaster> (hi by the way)
20100711 21:42:22< noy> as eleazar_ suggested.
20100711 21:42:27< Unnheulu> Hi shadowmaster
20100711 21:42:29< Unnheulu> Sight
20100711 21:42:37< Unnheulu> Afk
20100711 21:42:38< noy> So Unnheulu I really don't appreciate your "input" here.
20100711 21:42:47< Unnheulu> I repeat, afk
20100711 21:43:06< Unnheulu> Which means my input disappears
20100711 21:43:15< noy> good to know.
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20100711 21:47:10< billynux> mordante, and anybody else, can you give me some semantics on struct statistics in network.hpp:229? What are those 3 attributes?
20100711 21:48:20< billynux> I assume: 1- current is the amount of bytes received/sent in the last operation, 2- current_max is the max of these values for the current packet and 3- total is the accumulated total for *this* packet
20100711 21:50:42< mordante> I'm not sure but I think your guess is right
20100711 21:51:35< billynux> I should check the logs but we talked about this with Crab_ some days ago (> 1 week I think)
20100711 21:53:20< boucman> back...
20100711 22:02:56< Unnheulu> I iz back
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20100711 22:19:30< mordante> billynux, I'll be leaving soon is there anything you wish to discuss before I leave?
20100711 22:20:11< billynux> mordante, not much, the new stats code compiles fine (but it doesn't appear to be working)
20100711 22:20:51< billynux> I get a full 100% when downloading the 3.6MB file, even though it hasn't finished
20100711 22:21:09< billynux> aside from this, I don't expect too many shortcomings to finish the server implementation
20100711 22:21:26< billynux> (which doesn't mean it'll be easy, just more of the same)
20100711 22:22:02< mordante> billynux, you are aware that after downloading the addon needs to be unpacked which takes some time during which the progress bar remains at 100% ?
20100711 22:22:43< billynux> mordante, no, but a 3.6MB wouldn't download right away
20100711 22:22:52< billynux> does the game check to see if you already have it?
20100711 22:23:00< Unnheulu> Hah
20100711 22:23:15< Unnheulu> "You have 200 copies of Colosseum"
20100711 22:23:40< mordante> billynux, no it will take some time to download it
20100711 22:23:47< billynux> BTW... it's very annoying that in order to go back to the main menu it loads a bunch of stuff again
20100711 22:24:07< mordante> and the game doesn't check whether you have it, it overwrites your current copy of the addon
20100711 22:24:16-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 145 bugs, 282 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100711 22:24:24< mordante> yup the cache refreshing
20100711 22:25:11< billynux> mordante, ok, so it's not working as it should (maybe my interpretation of the total attribute is flawed)
20100711 22:25:44< Unnheulu> Aww, I hoped it would redownload the add-on with folders going "Copy of xyz", "Copy of copy of xyz", "Copy of copy of copy of xyz"
20100711 22:25:53< mordante> how fast does it download the 3.6MB (and how fast is your internet?)
20100711 22:26:14< Unnheulu> I'm not being helpful.../me quiets himself
20100711 22:26:17< mordante> Unnheulu, and that would be a good idea because?
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20100711 22:26:39< Unnheulu> mordante, to keep copies of old versions, of course!
20100711 22:28:56< mordante> if that's the goal better propose a sane name like 20100711-my_addon would be better
20100711 22:29:23< Unnheulu> then >.>
20100711 22:29:54< mordante> I'm serious if you want to make backups of the old version give them sane names
20100711 22:30:03< mordante> not that I think Wesnoth should do that
20100711 22:30:05 * Unnheulu doesn't even do mp
20100711 22:30:14< Unnheulu> Eurgh, you guys take stuff so seriously :/
20100711 22:30:54< zookeeper> and you're lately been trying to be particularly annoying
20100711 22:31:09< Unnheulu> zookeeper, I'm not being helpful.../me quiets himself
20100711 22:31:24< Unnheulu> And after that mordante tried continuing my pointless points
20100711 22:33:42< mordante> Unnheulu, I already typed the message before I saw that one
20100711 22:34:05< Unnheulu> mordante, ah :)
20100711 22:34:25< Unnheulu> Anyhow, I don't particularly want to continue that topic
20100711 22:35:54< mordante> ok
20100711 22:36:19< mordante> billynux, anything more to discuss?
20100711 22:36:31< billynux> not ATM, g'night
20100711 22:36:42< billynux> any comments on the latest developments?
20100711 22:37:21< mordante> which developments exactly?
20100711 22:42:32< mordante> I'm off night
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20100711 22:59:36< noy> eleazar_: we've discussed this before
20100711 22:59:44< noy> about sight between you and I...
20100711 23:00:00< eleazar_> not really
20100711 23:00:18< eleazar_> you told me you thougth the idea had potential
20100711 23:00:27< eleazar_> and should be KISS
20100711 23:00:32< noy> I said I'd rather not have a second stat for units
20100711 23:00:50< noy> that it should be based on movement or something like that
20100711 23:01:04< eleazar_> i still don't really know what you have in mind
20100711 23:01:49< noy> That sight is still based on movement, but modifications on terrain or something like that.
20100711 23:02:09< noy> that was about all I said in non-public
20100711 23:02:48-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100711 23:03:11< Unnheulu> So the terrains can have a sight attribute or something?
20100711 23:03:15< noy> modifications as a secondary value
20100711 23:03:35< eleazar_> noy, like what i proposed?
20100711 23:04:00< noy> I think that was the suggestion, thats why I said it had merit
20100711 23:04:51< eleazar_> i.e. certain terrains are treated for purposes of determining vision as if the move cost was zero. water and chasm for instance.
20100711 23:05:02< eleazar_> sorry not "zero"
20100711 23:05:04< eleazar_> one
20100711 23:05:05< noy> well I think they shouldn't be one
20100711 23:05:14< noy> I think they actually should be higher.
20100711 23:06:11< noy> I can imagine a scout looking over a chasm and being able to see deep into tunnels they could never see otherwise
20100711 23:06:18< noy> like around corners ect.
20100711 23:06:48< eleazar_> hmm, well we don't want to worry about line of sight
20100711 23:06:49< Unnheulu> That could go unkiss very easily...
20100711 23:06:58< noy> I know, eleazar_
20100711 23:07:14< billynux> Crab_, around?
20100711 23:07:27< noy> Unnheulu: are you a scenario designer?
20100711 23:07:35< Unnheulu> noy, no not really
20100711 23:07:47< Crab_> billynux: yes
20100711 23:07:54< billynux> Crab_, our previous conversation on the statistics struct: http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2010/06/%23wesnoth-dev.2010-06-28.log
20100711 23:08:26< billynux> It appears you were wrong, but I still can't make out what the attributes mean
20100711 23:08:31< noy> eleazar_: its a question of realism in either case.
20100711 23:08:54< billynux> you said: 1- current is the size of the last received batch, 2- current_max is the max of these values and 3- total is the accumulated total
20100711 23:09:01< Crab_> and what new information you've found ?
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20100711 23:09:22< noy> I think having some level of compromise actually benefits for realism
20100711 23:09:29< billynux> Crab_, hm... the only "new" information appears to be that this is not so
20100711 23:09:32< eleazar_> well, my motivation is partially aesthetic, I'd rather show of the animated water on island maps
20100711 23:09:49< eleazar_> noy: what do you think the cost should be 2, 3?
20100711 23:09:52< billynux> Crab_, either that or I'm collecting these stats the wrong way (let me check that 1')
20100711 23:10:12< noy> something in there... three might work.
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20100711 23:11:07< billynux> Crab_, I got the packet total right
20100711 23:11:19< billynux> Crab_, so... current is the packet's accumulated total
20100711 23:11:23< zookeeper> noy, why would you want it to be higher than 1?
20100711 23:11:42< eleazar_> noy: I can imagine a scout looking over a chasm and being able to see deep into tunnels they could never see otherwise
20100711 23:11:42< eleazar_> [4:06pm] noy: like around corners ect.
20100711 23:12:00< billynux> Crab_, but I can't return whatever is needed as what the packet total should be (i.e. the amount of info. it has to receive)
20100711 23:12:04< zookeeper> right, i interpreted that in reverse
20100711 23:12:24< zookeeper> i think i discussed this in depth with soliton a while back, let me dig up my logs...
20100711 23:14:07< Crab_> billynux: well, looking from the code: 1) 'current' can be formed as as sum of multiple transfers
20100711 23:14:28< billynux> Crab_, yes, it's not implementation I'm worried about (but semantics)
20100711 23:14:42< Crab_> current is occasionally reset to 0
20100711 23:15:08< Crab_> 'total' is the sum of all current values (as it is increased at the same time as current)
20100711 23:16:06< Crab_> current_max looks trickier
20100711 23:16:19< billynux> yes, I *think* current_max is the expected packet total
20100711 23:16:24< billynux> (checking that now)
20100711 23:16:25< Crab_> it seems that I was wrong about current_max by then
20100711 23:16:48< billynux> and do you still think total is the accumulated total for the session?
20100711 23:16:59< zookeeper> noy, eleazar_, ok, i think the best method would be to allow a terrain to specify the maximum of how many MP it takes for a unit's vision to cross it
20100711 23:17:14< Crab_> yes, as it's tightly coupled with current
20100711 23:17:22< zookeeper> although i'd still suggest only using a cost of 1 in mainline, for water and chasm
20100711 23:17:32< Crab_> billynux: see network.hpp , where total is changed
20100711 23:17:40< billynux> Crab_, with the exception is not reset after a whole packet has arrived
20100711 23:18:09< billynux> Crab_, I was right, current_max is the expected total
20100711 23:18:22< zookeeper> i had a more complicated method in mind, but i don't think it's worth the complexity: you'd see through chasm with 1MP, but your vision would stop on the first non-chasm hex encountered on the other side.
20100711 23:18:38< Crab_> billynux: both for send and receive ?
20100711 23:18:42< billynux> (I hard coded the return value to a known add-on campaign size)
20100711 23:18:48< billynux> Crab_, I don't know
20100711 23:19:14< Upthorn> oh hey Crab_
20100711 23:19:19< Unnheulu> zookeeper, you usually work out something was a wall if it wasn't "sighted"
20100711 23:19:21< Crab_> hi, Upthorn
20100711 23:19:25< Upthorn> I wanted to ask what cleanup you think is necessary for SP
20100711 23:19:37< Upthorn> I had a list of things but I lost it
20100711 23:19:47< eleazar_> zookeeper: that's essentially what i suggested (the simple version)
20100711 23:19:55< Unnheulu> Especially if most terrains were given a similar "sp?" for consistency
20100711 23:21:02< eleazar_> the difference is noy is suggesting a minium value of around 3
20100711 23:21:36 * zookeeper reads the thread
20100711 23:22:02< noy> oh
20100711 23:22:11< noy> I meant for just chasm and water
20100711 23:22:57< noy> eh, but this raises issues I guess
20100711 23:23:11< Upthorn> it is a little bit embarassing actually.
20100711 23:23:33< Unnheulu> noy, so most terrains would have a high value, but chasm and water would be 3?
20100711 23:25:16< eleazar_> most terrains wouldn't change
20100711 23:25:23< noy> exactly
20100711 23:25:50< Unnheulu> And the best way to stop them changing would be to have a highvalue if I understand this right
20100711 23:25:58< noy> No, it wouldn't
20100711 23:26:18< Unnheulu> Hmm
20100711 23:26:27< Unnheulu> So it isn't mp/sp?
20100711 23:26:38< Crab_> Upthorn: most things were ok, there were a few design choices that I'm not sure about, but that's not too important. but there's one issue that needs some refactoring.
20100711 23:27:51< Crab_> to support persistent variables backed by an alternate (say, SQL) storage, the code needs to be a bit restructured
20100711 23:29:04< zookeeper> noy, so there wouldn't be any in-game way to actually see what the value is for each terrain?
20100711 23:29:11< noy> thats the problem
20100711 23:29:19< Upthorn> Crab_: I made the actual functions that read/write the files virtual so that they could be overridden in a subclass, is that insufficient?
20100711 23:29:35< noy> Its going to require some sort of UI change... then again almost every single proposal would too
20100711 23:30:01< zookeeper> noy, yeah. a value of 1 would kinda solve that, though, but as you said it allows a non-flier scout to see a long way past a narrow chasm.
20100711 23:30:09< noy> yeah
20100711 23:30:44< Crab_> Upthorn: the problem is that with SQL, it's highly inefficient to read the entire namespace from DB if we need to, say delete a variable named 'foo' from namespace 'bar.zz' - we can just do a query like 'delete from vars where name='foo' and name_space='bar.zz'
20100711 23:30:47< eleazar_> it's not that different from a merman seeing up a curving river
20100711 23:30:52< zookeeper> noy, personally i think only methods which wouldn't require any UI changes are acceptable...we don't really want to introduce the concept of vision except in the currently unintuitive cases of chasm and water, i think.
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20100711 23:31:18< Upthorn> Ah. Okay. I have not worked with SQL before, so I don't know things like that.
20100711 23:31:38< Upthorn> So I virtualized the wrong functions
20100711 23:31:55< noy> thats nearly impossible zookeeper
20100711 23:32:00< Crab_> Upthorn: so, basically, the workflow is somewhat different, and yes, it's better to virtualize other functions, those of persist_context
20100711 23:32:01< noy> its going to be unrealistic overall
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20100711 23:32:59< Upthorn> (also I am approaching 20 hours since I woke up, so I apologize if I seem slow at the moment.)
20100711 23:33:00< eleazar_> it's already unrealistic, we're just going to switch to a slightly preferable kind of unrealism
20100711 23:33:33< Crab_> Upthorn: so, basically, persist_context::clear_var , persist_context::get_var, persist_context::set_var are to be different for SQL implementation
20100711 23:34:02< Upthorn> Ok.
20100711 23:34:18< Crab_> so, persist_var.cpp is ok...
20100711 23:34:20< Upthorn> I should move the file read/write from manager to context then
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20100711 23:34:38< Crab_> then, it does a persist_context &ctx = resources::persist->get_context((pcfg["namespace"])); , which is ok
20100711 23:34:43< knotwork> for vision beyond where you can move it is meant to seem like line of sight not like quick scout-ahead by possibly a small portion of a possibly large unit
20100711 23:34:50< zookeeper> noy, i agree with eleazar on that...it's already unrealistic, and for example "my" proposal would keep it pretty much as unrealistic as before, but likely somewhat more intuitive
20100711 23:35:08< knotwork> so maybe shift to a line of sight straight line type approach beyond where you can actually move
20100711 23:35:52< knotwork> maybe do two checks, striaght liens only sight and actual move, and take best of both
20100711 23:36:04< Crab_> Upthorn: then, persist_manager::get_context acts like a factory for contexts, be it file-based for wesnoth or sql-based for gamemaster, it's also ok (will need a small modification for SQL things, but is ok as of now)
20100711 23:36:26< eleazar_> knotwork: we don't want something that will be radically different
20100711 23:36:35< billynux> Crab_, it's working :) I'll commit soon
20100711 23:36:36< Crab_> Upthorn: but then, there will be different implementation of some 'base' persist_context interfae
20100711 23:36:38< Crab_> billynux: great
20100711 23:36:43< Crab_> *interface
20100711 23:36:53< billynux> Crab_, I also add comments to the statistics attributes
20100711 23:37:03< billynux> about their semantics
20100711 23:37:14< knotwork> they are 2 hours turns usually outdoors so simply doing quick scoutahead always seemed likeliest method they wee using
20100711 23:39:24< Crab_> Upthorn: I'd rename persist_context to something like file_persist_context : public persist_context, and push all 'base' method like get_var, set_var, clean_var and all the transaction hooks to the base class as pure virtual functions.
20100711 23:40:01< Crab_> then, we'd be able to use sql_persist_context : public persist_context {...}
20100711 23:40:10< CIA-87> billynux * r44122 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Fixed a bug that prevented the ana implementation to return significant information about the current transfer statistics, which resulted in wrong progress bar updates.
20100711 23:40:30< billynux> ... and with that I'm off... bye y'all
20100711 23:40:33< Crab_> billynux: bye
20100711 23:40:48< Upthorn> Crab_: okay, that sounds reasonable
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20100711 23:41:28< Crab_> Upthorn: also, you've decided to parse your namespace by hand - have you considered other alternatives such as boost::regex ?
20100711 23:41:37< Crab_> (it's ok, I'm just wondering :) )
20100711 23:41:51< Upthorn> I always forget to check if there are already libraries available
20100711 23:41:55< eleazar_> zookeeper: noy: the only question we have is on exactly what the minimum difference should be, right? That would presumably be adjustable in the WML. for mainline it should be set as the same thing, but we can do some in-game testing to see if 1, 2, 3 or whatever is best
20100711 23:42:25< Upthorn> I remember noticing after I had done it that something else was using boost::regex and thinking "That would have been faster."
20100711 23:43:01< Crab_> Upthorn: well, there's an example in src/ai/composite/component.cpp
20100711 23:43:20< Crab_> but, the speed is not a big issue here
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20100711 23:43:53< Upthorn> err, what I mean is that it would have been faster to write
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20100711 23:44:10< Upthorn> since that is what boost does
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20100711 23:44:54< Crab_> the best way to write such things is to make a unit test first
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20100711 23:45:09< Crab_> e.g., the test which feeds various strings to it and checks if it's parsed ok
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20100711 23:51:39< Crab_> Upthorn: also, see ftp://ftp.terraninfo.net/wesnoth/MPC_Sandbox.tar.gz
20100711 23:52:11< Crab_> it's that test 2-scenario MP campaign I've mentioned, which can be modified and used as a 'test scenario' for mp persistence
20100711 23:53:34< Upthorn> thanks. that should help, since I obviously can't use tutorial scenario 1 to test MP
20100711 23:54:28< Crab_> you can (ab)use any mp scenario for this purpose. but that one being a campaign, it's better - since we can test various things related to 'change of scenarios' in a mp campaign.
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20100711 23:55:31< Crab_> it should run ok, ping me if it isn't, for whatever reason (there might be some old experiments there, accidentally left in the code)
20100711 23:55:49< Crab_> Upthorn: what is the plan for the MP implementation ?
20100711 23:55:56< noy> sorry I was dealing with some other stuff
20100711 23:56:20< noy> eleazar_: is it better to be done through WML?
20100711 23:57:04< noy> zookeeper: I think the current system is the most intuitive, just that it has some unrealistic outcomes
20100711 23:58:00< Crab_> Upthorn: the main problem with MP was the 'need to sync' issue - if we wait for a persistent variable from side 2, we need to sit around, passing chat messages normally, till side 2 gives us the value of the variable. but what if side 2 drops connection and/or is replaced by an observer ?
20100711 23:59:06< Upthorn> I'm still working on how to deal with sync
--- Log closed Mon Jul 12 00:00:29 2010