--- Log opened Wed Jul 14 00:00:50 2010
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20100714 00:44:19< CIA-87> billynux * r44153 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Improved implementation of the asio_sender to log during sending in ana. Bug in network_manager_ana.cpp:876 remains.
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20100714 00:47:22< shadowmaster> sigh.
20100714 00:47:46< shadowmaster> why the hell do we have the "you've been playing Wesnoth too long" crap again?
20100714 00:48:15< shadowmaster> I guess I'll blame Ivanovic since I wasn't available to stop it.
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20100714 01:01:51< crimson_penguin> heh
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20100714 01:41:22< Elvish_Pillager> by the way, is there any way for WML to check whether a side is AI-controlled in a networked game?
20100714 01:42:34< shadowmaster> yes
20100714 01:42:45< shadowmaster> I think *checking*
20100714 01:43:20< shadowmaster> [store_side] side,variable=N,sideN_store [/store_side]
20100714 01:43:27< shadowmaster> then you check if $sideN_store is "ai"
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20100714 03:49:46< elvish_sovereign> shadowmaster: can you help me with this? http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/SX1kb8v5
20100714 03:50:02< elvish_sovereign> Luke the Flaming and I can't seem to find the problem
20100714 03:50:37< elvish_sovereign> we suspect it has to do with the custom units in the definitions in the [swiitch] tag stuff
20100714 03:50:56< elvish_sovereign> but i get an error saying the game is trying to create a unit with an empty type field
20100714 03:51:13< elvish_sovereign> [switch]*
20100714 03:51:28< elvish_sovereign> ahh
20100714 03:52:08< elvish_sovereign> read from here http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=441793#p441793
20100714 03:52:10< shadowmaster> I'm busy
20100714 03:52:14< elvish_sovereign> okay
20100714 03:52:29< elvish_sovereign> hmm, can anyone else here help? thanks so much!
20100714 03:56:36< elvish_sovereign> yeah, in game the image doesn't show, and upon moving onto it, the game crashes
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20100714 04:24:16-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 144 bugs, 282 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100714 04:40:01< Sapient> elias: there?
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20100714 04:41:08< Sapient> looks like some spambots have figured out how to register on the wiki
20100714 04:41:32< shadowmaster> again.
20100714 04:41:39< shadowmaster> they figured it out ages ago
20100714 04:42:47< Sapient> I'm looking at the last 500 changes and they're all spam
20100714 04:43:36< shadowmaster> *gulp*
20100714 04:44:11< shadowmaster> what do you suggest?
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20100714 04:45:30< shadowmaster> I'm really incompetent with the wiki software
20100714 04:45:46< Sapient> it looks like the first one was Mortzik at 15:18 on 13 July 2010
20100714 04:46:13< Sapient> I suggest disabling the ability to create new user accounts temporarily until the humanity verification is improved
20100714 04:46:59< shadowmaster> I have no idea how to do that.
20100714 04:47:07< shadowmaster> grrr.
20100714 04:47:42< shadowmaster> found it
20100714 04:49:08< Sapient> if it's all coming from one IP you may be able to just ban/block it
20100714 04:49:30< shadowmaster> yeah, but I also need to revert the edits
20100714 04:49:41< shadowmaster> I don't think there's an easy way to ban and revert edits at the same time :(
20100714 04:49:52< shadowmaster> (so if people can help me with this one..)
20100714 04:50:53< shadowmaster> I could just drop their entries in the database but that'd probably cause interesting side-effects.
20100714 04:51:28< Sapient> I'm pretty sure zookeeper has a way to do mass rollbacks
20100714 04:51:56< Sapient> dunno since I am only a moderator on the forums
20100714 04:52:02< shadowmaster> where the hell is Aethaeryn when I need him
20100714 04:52:32< Upthorn> I heard a really good idea on humanity verification a while ago
20100714 04:52:40< Sapient> I've noticed that new users never post anything useful to the wiki anyway
20100714 04:52:49< Sapient> except for GSoC students maybe
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20100714 04:53:01< Sapient> so no great loss
20100714 04:53:03< Upthorn> in your registration form, add several hidden fields that do not actually display in browsers
20100714 04:53:16< Upthorn> if any of them have content in them, user is not human
20100714 04:54:08< Sapient> after Mortzik was Gh66 and then the automatic stream began
20100714 04:54:27< Sapient> since none of the other names fit that pattern, it seems the first two were done by hand
20100714 04:54:40< Sapient> as in, training the bot
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20100714 04:55:45< shadowmaster> I could just take the whole wiki down.
20100714 04:55:58< Sapient> :(
20100714 04:56:01< shadowmaster> I mean, rewrite and redirect to the "emergency alert page"
20100714 04:56:15 * shadowmaster scratches head.
20100714 04:56:31< shadowmaster> I'm not sure I want to deal with thousands of spambots until there's a MW expert available
20100714 04:56:33 * Sapient scratches records.
20100714 04:57:03< shadowmaster> well, it's just a night
20100714 04:57:26< shadowmaster> it's only 4 hours or so before zookeeper appears
20100714 04:58:19< AndrewMc> can somebody tell me where to start reading the code to understand the mapping engine?
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20100714 04:59:57< shadowmaster> bye wiki
20100714 05:00:01< Sapient> AndrewMc: oddly enough, there was a thread about that recently in Coder's Corner
20100714 05:00:01< shadowmaster> wait
20100714 05:00:27< shadowmaster> I guess I didn't hit the wiki hard enough
20100714 05:01:14< Sapient> AndrewMc: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30481
20100714 05:04:17< Sapient> however, since the wiki is down now, you won't be able to read about TerrainGraphicsWML
20100714 05:04:42< shadowmaster> haha
20100714 05:04:53-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100714 05:04:53< shadowmaster> yeah, I  know, not funny.
20100714 05:05:16< shadowmaster> but I couldn't figure out a way to revert all those edits.
20100714 05:05:19< shadowmaster> maybe I'll think about it againin some minutes
20100714 05:05:24< Sapient> well, there is the Google cache
20100714 05:05:44< Sapient> for situations like this
20100714 05:05:52< AndrewMc> so where is terrain_builder in the code?
20100714 05:07:15< CIA-87> gabba * r44154 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: Enabled whiteboard outside of debug mode, now you just need to type :wb or :whiteboard to activate it.
20100714 05:07:21< CIA-87> gabba * r44155 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Whiteboard: fix impossibility to define attack w/o move before it.
20100714 05:07:27< CIA-87> gabba * r44156 /trunk/src/ (mouse_events.cpp whiteboard/manager.cpp): Whiteboard: erase selection after defining an attack.
20100714 05:07:34< CIA-87> gabba * r44157 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: Whiteboard: ctrl+v i.e. show enemy moves takes into account future position of units.
20100714 05:08:03< Sapient> grep is your friend, my friend
20100714 05:10:16< Sapient> it's in builder.[ch]pp
20100714 05:12:39 * AndrewMc goes and grabs a svn copy of the source instead of just trying to take a quick look via the web interface
20100714 05:13:48< Sapient> AndrewMc: mind if I ask "why"?
20100714 05:14:02< Sapient> what are you intending to do with the terrain builder code?
20100714 05:14:55< AndrewMc> trying to figure out decent way to compute intervening hexes between to arbitrary hexes in a hex map.
20100714 05:15:15< Sapient> a pathfinder?
20100714 05:15:23< AndrewMc> Not related to wesnoth, just personal itch.
20100714 05:15:49< shadowmaster> actually, maybe I should consider restoring the database from a backup
20100714 05:16:13< AndrewMc> nah, trying to code up a computer version of hex-grid tatical tabletop games.
20100714 05:16:45< AndrewMc> need to compute to-hit modifiers based on range and interveaning terrain
20100714 05:17:05< Sapient> the terrain code got a lot more complicated after version 1.2
20100714 05:17:06< AndrewMc> figured you wesnoth guys might have some help for me.
20100714 05:17:17< Sapient> not that it was simple before that, either
20100714 05:17:38< Sapient> but in 1.0 all terrains were represented by a single character
20100714 05:18:40< AndrewMc> mostly I'm trying to figure out a decent data structure to store the map and a way to compute the interveaning hexes.
20100714 05:19:27< Sapient> if I were writing a hex game from scratch I would not try to reuse Wesnoth's mapping code
20100714 05:19:41< Sapient> it's really complex and probably overkill for your needs
20100714 05:21:30< Sapient> I still don't know what you mean by "intervening" though
20100714 05:22:03< AndrewMc> hoping I could see how wesnoth solved the problem and start from there.  I'm going to write this in clojure anyway.  (just for fun anyway) 
20100714 05:22:33< AndrewMc> Sapient: looking at the map in the forum topic that got posted....
20100714 05:22:51< AndrewMc> imagine there is a unit in 0,0 and a hostile in 4,1
20100714 05:24:33< AndrewMc> if you draw a line from the center of 0,0 to the center of 4,1 hexes 1,0, 2,1 and 3,0 have parts under the line, so are interveaning in the Line of Sight. 
20100714 05:25:44< AndrewMc> The game I'm working from uses ranged combat and the target number to hit the target unit would go up if there was say, smoke.  or there could be terrian that would block line of sight and prevent fire between the two units.
20100714 05:26:38< Sapient> ah, well there's no equivalent line of sight in wesnoth... sight travels just as the unit does
20100714 05:27:28< Sapient> we do need an improvement to one of our algorithms though, if you're interested in that sort of thing
20100714 05:28:37< AndrewMc> I'll let you guys know when I figure this stuff out :)
20100714 05:29:22< AndrewMc> but do you really want features that block units sight independent of movement?
20100714 05:31:42< AndrewMc> based on my (unfortunatley) limited play of wesnoth, it might really change some aspects of play.
20100714 05:32:22< AndrewMc> Imagine if you could have a "fence" that blocks all sight, but you can move though for a slight increase in movement cost.
20100714 05:32:53< AndrewMc> would routefinding try to move through the fence?
20100714 05:34:12< Sapient> there are currently several proposals for changing the way vision works in Wesnoth
20100714 05:34:24< Sapient> I haven't been following the discussion too closely though
20100714 05:35:17< Sapient> mainly because nobody liked my ideas about it in the past ... and it's not that interesting to me, anyways ;)
20100714 05:35:51< Sapient> I was actually talking about a different algorithm though: the one that gets all hexes within a certain radius
20100714 05:37:22< Sapient> currently, it does a breadth-first search. I am sure with a well understood topography like ours there must be an efficient way of doing it
20100714 05:37:38< CIA-87> gabba * r44158 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (manager.cpp manager.hpp validate_visitor.cpp): Whiteboard: validate actions of the current team whenever whiteboard gets activated. Still need to write the activation logic in play_controller.
20100714 05:38:12< shadowmaster> I wish Crab_ were here.
20100714 05:38:24< gabba> night everybody
20100714 05:38:33< Sapient> good night, g
20100714 05:38:39< shadowmaster> he'd know what to do, probably. The thing that really irks me is how nobody noticed earlier
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20100714 05:39:02< Sapient> shadowmaster: you mean about the wiki?
20100714 05:39:13< shadowmaster> yep
20100714 05:41:11< Sapient> actually, I had some ideas of my own about how to optimize the radius algorithm
20100714 05:43:01< Sapient> I think the order of hexes returned needs to radiate out from the center in a specific pattern, however, since some parts of the code seem to rely on that
20100714 05:44:07< AndrewMc> brb, making bottles.
20100714 05:47:21< Espreon> wesbot: seen silene ?
20100714 05:47:21< wesbot> Espreon: The person with the nick silene last spoke 2d 23h ago.  2d 6h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100714 05:52:54< AndrewMc> back
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20100714 05:54:37< AndrewMc> Sapient: a fixed-order iteraton would be pretty fast I would think.  with a radius of 2, you do a lot of detects to make sure you aren't covering hexes twice.
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20100714 05:57:01< Sapient> yeah, the algorithm for the fixed-order iteration is the part that needs to be written though ;)
20100714 05:59:45< Sapient> the more I think about it, it may be best to leave it as it is. the filter_radius code relies on the current behavior and it might be difficult to preserve that feature with fixed-order iteration
20100714 06:00:29< Sapient> still, could be useful in the case of an empty radius filter, which is the usual case
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20100714 06:08:17< shadowmaster> ..so, I acquired bureaucrat powers in the wiki through SQL sorcery
20100714 06:08:33< shadowmaster> of course that won't help me much
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20100714 07:40:58< CIA-87> espreon * r44159 /trunk/data/core/images/ (56 files in 6 dirs): Ran umcpropfix.
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20100714 08:42:36< shadowmaster> I guess I'll call it a night before I fall asleep with the laptop on my face.
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20100714 09:03:06< CIA-87> billynux * r44160 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Fixed a bug in the ana implementation of the server. I was able to run a server with ana and play a game between two old clients (with SDLnet). Still some bugs present when trying to connect a ana client.
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20100714 09:30:33< timotei> morning
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20100714 09:39:31< Ivanovic> moin
20100714 09:39:37< timotei> hi Ivanovic 
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20100714 09:51:24< CIA-87> billynux * r44161 /trunk/src/network_ana.cpp: Temporary fix of the bandwidth pointer usage in the ana implementation.
20100714 10:05:03< thespaceinvader> morning all
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20100714 10:55:06< silene> Espreon: seems you were looking for me five days ago; i can't find anything in the logs though
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20100714 14:14:02< timotei> fendrin: ping
20100714 14:15:15< timotei> zookeeper: hey:-)
20100714 14:21:37< elias> wesbot, seen Sapient
20100714 14:21:37< wesbot> elias: The person with the nick Sapient last spoke 8h 21m ago.  5h 48m ago they left with the message: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]
20100714 14:21:50< elias> wonder what he wanted
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20100714 14:40:30< zookeeper> timotei, yes?
20100714 14:40:57< timotei> since fendrin isn't yet around, I need your opinion
20100714 14:41:14< timotei> I need to make the "addon-uploader" in eclipse
20100714 14:41:31< timotei> it's enough to have "upload this"?
20100714 14:41:50< timotei> or it would be nice to have other actions like ?
20100714 14:42:39< timotei> I thought of making a "add-on manager" dialog or so, where you have the list of all server's addons/ current user's addon. and maybe be like a FTP client: upload/remove addon
20100714 14:44:25< zookeeper> why do you want an uploaded in eclipse?
20100714 14:44:36< zookeeper> uploader, even
20100714 14:44:42< timotei> well, right click the project and Upload
20100714 14:44:50< timotei> that's what the plugin should have:-)
20100714 14:45:01< timotei> and it's faster/easier than with the python script
20100714 14:45:05< timotei> and from command line
20100714 14:48:43< zookeeper> hmh
20100714 14:49:30< zookeeper> sounds like you're just duplicating the current in-game add-on browser. couldn't you instead have the option launch the game and connect to the server immediately?
20100714 14:49:54< timotei> well, it could be done
20100714 14:50:25< timotei> I'll wait then to see what fendrin says
20100714 14:50:50< timotei> but in the meantime looking to create that "connect to addon server" in-game
20100714 14:51:31< fendrin> timotei: There is a script somewhere that can handle the upload to the addon server on the commandline.
20100714 14:51:38< timotei> fendrin: yeah
20100714 14:51:44< timotei> fendrin: hi
20100714 14:52:00< timotei> fendrin: I've already done a menu entry for uploading it with that script
20100714 14:52:10< timotei> but I wanted to know if I should "expand" the features
20100714 14:52:19< timotei> if yes, in which way
20100714 14:52:31< fendrin> timotei: No, that maybe an option later but not for your gsoc project.
20100714 14:52:56< timotei> so, "Upload add-on" menu entry is enough
20100714 14:52:59< timotei> ?
20100714 14:53:20< fendrin> timotei: Yes, for now it is enough.
20100714 14:53:43< timotei> ok
20100714 14:53:48< elias> maybe have it reject anything where wmllint or the parser find warnings :)
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20100714 14:54:47< fendrin> elias: hmmm, I guess you should talk about that with shadowmaster :-)
20100714 14:55:47< fendrin> elias: Maybe you should calibrate your SDI to defense against massive amounts of ICBFish.
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20100714 14:57:16< zookeeper> eh, that's not really an option
20100714 14:57:32< timotei> fendrin: ok, this is done.
20100714 14:57:45< timotei> fendrin: should I start working on the wmlscope/lint cache system?
20100714 14:57:54< timotei> fendrin: or esr should do that?
20100714 14:59:31< fendrin> zookeeper: The SDI thing?
20100714 15:00:02< timotei> wesbot: SDI ?
20100714 15:00:06< timotei> wesbot: ICB ?
20100714 15:00:15< timotei> shikadibot: SDI ?
20100714 15:00:15< shikadibot> Sorry, I don't know what 'SDI' means...
20100714 15:00:21< timotei> shikadibot: ICB ?
20100714 15:00:22< shikadibot> ICB: Internet Citizen'S Band
20100714 15:01:10< fendrin> timotei: SDI = Satelite Defense System (known as Star Wars), a plan to install a defense against atomic attacks. It was driven by Ronald Reagon but never finished.
20100714 15:01:26< timotei> oh
20100714 15:01:30< fendrin> timotei: ICBM = Inter Continental Ballistic Missile
20100714 15:01:45< fendrin> Inter Continental Ballistic Fish is a derivation of that.
20100714 15:01:47< zookeeper> fendrin, the wmllint thing
20100714 15:02:00< fendrin> zookeeper: Tell me more, please.
20100714 15:02:37< timotei> fendrin: also, Start the game using the temporary created content, is anything else than starting the campaign/scenario?
20100714 15:03:37< fendrin> timotei: In princip, yes. But I don't know about name collisions. Maybe you should feed in the tested temporary with another name and defines.
20100714 15:03:59< timotei> name collisions? in which way?
20100714 15:04:30< zookeeper> fendrin, what's the to tell? AFAIK wmllint gives warnings about a bunch of stuff which aren't really necessarily a problem, therefore making wmllint-compliance a requirement for add-on upload would be silly
20100714 15:06:00< fendrin> timotei: Say you download a campaign in the game via the addon menu. Then you deceide to take a look at it in the eclipse plugin to play around and modify it. When executing Wesnoth with the temporary the original will be read as well and you may have name collisions.
20100714 15:06:22< fendrin> zookeeper: Right, but wmllint passing is mandatory for mainline stuff. 
20100714 15:07:06< timotei> hmm, that will be needed in case the user ... "copies" it right?
20100714 15:07:40< fendrin> zookeeper: So a campaign designer aiming for mainline inclusion may find such a thing usefull.
20100714 15:07:49< fendrin> zookeeper: As an option of course.
20100714 15:07:58< zookeeper> fendrin, yeah, but wmllint passing is retroactive unless it's esr whose mainlining it
20100714 15:08:01< timotei> fendrin: we could have a menu: "check mainline-eligible"
20100714 15:08:14< zookeeper> that is, if someone else mainlines something which doesn't pass wmllint, then presumably esr goes and makes it pass
20100714 15:09:25< fendrin> timotei: I don't know. What happens if you import a campaign into eclipse from the .wesnoth/addons folder (I think you are going to import that automatically). Then you modify it. Does it get loaded two times in that case?
20100714 15:10:14< zookeeper> i've never worried about wmllint and i've committed a lot of WML which esr has peppered with wmllint-ignore directives or changed macro argument names and so on
20100714 15:10:50< zookeeper> stuff in mainline should pass wmllint of course, but as far as i'm concerned it's not a precondition
20100714 15:11:44< timotei> well, currently everything enters addons folder, will be present in eclipse
20100714 15:11:52< timotei> but if you modify there, it modifyes in addons too
20100714 15:12:00< timotei> so there will be no copies
20100714 15:13:59< fendrin> timotei: Okay, fine. I can't see a difference between using the temporary created content and starting the campaign/scenario.
20100714 15:14:22< timotei> well, here it is how it works
20100714 15:14:34< fendrin> timotei: Let's follow the opinion of zookeeper and keep wmllint passing mandatory for uploading out of the thing.
20100714 15:14:35< timotei> there is the build.xml which automatically copies modified files in addons/folder
20100714 15:15:21< timotei> so if any project is created outside addons/ it gets copied there
20100714 15:15:47< fendrin> timotei: My current software project that I code with eclipse does have a resources folder in the "Package Explorer".
20100714 15:16:01< fendrin> timotei: Can we have that for wesnoth as well? 
20100714 15:16:13< timotei> and show what?
20100714 15:16:17< fendrin> Maybe resources/core/units
20100714 15:16:29< timotei> yeah, I think is doable
20100714 15:16:29< fendrin> or core/resources/units
20100714 15:16:48< fendrin> timotei: Just to give the user the ability to open a file that defines a unit quickly.
20100714 15:17:29< timotei> yeah
20100714 15:17:52< timotei> well, what I first want to do/finish is to finish all things on the proposal timeline .
20100714 15:17:57< timotei> that is PartII and Part II
20100714 15:18:01< timotei> 2 and 3
20100714 15:19:49< fendrin> timotei: Fine, that was an idea for later. I just mentioned it so it won't get forgotten.
20100714 15:20:01< timotei> I'll add it in the proposal as an optional ok?
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20100714 15:20:10< timotei> so I'll remember it
20100714 15:20:41< timotei> so, how about the wmllint/wmlscope cache thingy?
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20100714 15:25:24< fendrin> timotei: Can you implement it being triggered first. Like when eclipse is used for c++. There is no autobuild in there. Compiling and error marking is to be called.
20100714 15:25:56< fendrin> timotei: We can think and talk with esr about a solution to the problem later.
20100714 15:26:16< timotei> ok
20100714 15:26:45< fendrin> timotei: I would like to have a version that can be tested by endusers soon. So let's get basic funktionality working and save. 
20100714 15:26:56< timotei> ok
20100714 15:27:54< fendrin> timotei: Well, there is some kind of autocompiling in the c++ eclipse plugin but it does only tell about syntax errors, no compiler errors.
20100714 15:28:27< timotei> hmm, who's working on the wiki?
20100714 15:28:32< timotei> I get: Warning: The database has been locked for maintenance, so you will not be able to save your edits right now
20100714 15:29:23< timotei> btw fendrin, you know that the plugin needs to be EPL and not GPL?
20100714 15:29:50< fendrin> timotei: No, that is new to me.
20100714 15:30:05< fendrin> Might be a problem.
20100714 15:30:07< fendrin> Ivanovic: ping
20100714 15:30:08< timotei> since EPL and GPL are not compatible
20100714 15:30:10< timotei> why?
20100714 15:30:35< timotei> since I don't use any GPL code in the plugin
20100714 15:30:59< fendrin> timotei: I don't know if gna allows us to store EPL code for example.
20100714 15:31:09< timotei> oh...
20100714 15:31:19< timotei> fendrin: well, we could use the umc-dev repositories then
20100714 15:31:53< fendrin> timotei: Right, don't worry. If this will cause problems we can most likely solve them in any way.
20100714 15:32:51< timotei> btw, I was thinking of creating an eclipse product out of the plugin too. What's your opinion
20100714 15:33:05< timotei> that's something like 
20100714 15:33:21< timotei> branding the eclipse to be a standalone application: custom loading screen, icon, title, stuff
20100714 15:33:40< timotei> we could get rid from it of the java things in case one would want only to use for umc dev
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20100714 15:33:51< timotei> so slimming it down
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20100714 15:36:25< loonycyborg> timotei: crab is working on wiki now. There was a spambot outbreak.
20100714 15:36:34< timotei> oh. ok
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20100714 15:40:06< timotei> fendrin: btw, hope there won't be another war with EPL vs GPL or something like that.
20100714 15:40:27< timotei> zookeeper: does it happen that users embed a scneario in the same file where is the campaign?
20100714 15:40:51< timotei> zookeeper: or usually, they have separate files (it that a guideline?)
20100714 15:41:28< Crab_> timotei, loonycyborg: not 'working', more like 'waiting till evening when I finally get home and sort things out'
20100714 15:41:29< zookeeper> timotei, they're always in separate files, even though it's of course valid to put everything in the same file if you want
20100714 15:41:50< timotei> Crab_: take your time. I've saved the info on a text file
20100714 15:42:09< timotei> zookeeper: ok
20100714 15:42:10< Crab_> ok
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20100714 16:49:19< Ivanovic> fendrin: i don't think gna has any problem with this
20100714 16:49:45< Ivanovic> fendrin: though timotei has to clearly mark his code as EPL instead of GPL, since we do ship it in the same tarball, too (IIRC)
20100714 16:50:24< Ivanovic> anyway, i am not really around atm, am busy with lying in the garden and enjoying the great weather
20100714 17:08:18< timotei> hmm, while does wesnoth keep lock on an opened file?
20100714 17:08:34< timotei> (I got an error on that file, and it keeps the file locked - I can't delete it)
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20100714 17:38:42< gabba> bonjour
20100714 17:38:51< fendrin> Ivanovic: :-)
20100714 17:38:52< timotei> hi gabba :D
20100714 17:38:58< gabba> hi timotei
20100714 17:39:32< timotei> fendrin: as part of the plugin polishing phase, should I add information in the help too?
20100714 17:39:45< fendrin> timotei: sure
20100714 17:40:02< timotei> fendrin: did you saw my message ^ about the eclipse product?
20100714 17:40:17< timotei> fendrin: for example, Aptana is such an eclipse product
20100714 17:41:34< fendrin> timotei: Yes, having a special eclipse wesnoth edition would be very nice. No need to install the plugins manually. I have thought about that.
20100714 17:42:40< timotei> fendrin: good.
20100714 17:43:59< timotei> fendrin: ok, next question. the wizards. should I remove from there the: Era/Scenario/Faction wizards?
20100714 17:44:13< timotei> fendrin: so it will be just: Empty project, Campaign, and the wizard launcher - based on schema
20100714 17:45:01< fendrin> timotei: Disable them for now if they don't work well. We can see if they are reactivated at a later stage. 
20100714 17:45:12< timotei> ok
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20100714 17:47:47< timotei> fendrin: the "mark my code as EPL", is it enough like it's done now for C++ code? Add in the header the "epl" license bla bla bla?
20100714 17:48:50< timotei> fendrin: something like this: http://pastebin.com/0Mu8T7JM
20100714 17:48:53< fendrin> timotei:  You can ship with an extra license.txt in the root foolder.
20100714 17:49:01< timotei> ok, that's better
20100714 17:49:09< fendrin> timotei: I think you need both. 
20100714 17:52:20< timotei> fendrin: ok I'll add both
20100714 17:52:42< boucman> hey all
20100714 17:52:49< timotei> hi boucman :-)
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20100714 18:00:40< billynux> hi all
20100714 18:00:47< timotei> hi billynux 
20100714 18:00:55< billynux> hi timotei, how is it going?
20100714 18:01:07< timotei> billynux: well, copy-pasting license :))
20100714 18:01:25< billynux> the M$ EULA? :)
20100714 18:01:35< timotei> no... Eclipse's
20100714 18:01:55< timotei> I couldn't resist reading whole Window's EULA
20100714 18:01:59< timotei> a friend of mine did
20100714 18:02:46< billynux> so you read it? I never did
20100714 18:03:04< timotei> I tried. but not successfully
20100714 18:03:17< billynux> so you did resist ;)
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20100714 18:03:33< timotei> well, no. because I couldn't read it
20100714 18:03:37< timotei> everything or none :D
20100714 18:04:26< timotei> what about you?
20100714 18:05:02< billynux> never bothered to... and haven't installed a non-linux OS in a long time
20100714 18:05:30< timotei> great... build failed
20100714 18:05:42< timotei> gabba: around?:-S
20100714 18:05:54< timotei> gabba: I get this trying to build:
20100714 18:05:55< timotei> side_actions.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: __thiscall wb::attack::attack(class unit &,struct map_location const &,struct map_location const &,struct map_location const &,class boost::shared_ptr<class arrow>,class boost::shared_ptr<class unit>)" (??0attack@wb@@QAE@AAVunit@@ABUmap_location@@11V?$shared_ptr@Varrow@@@boost@@V?$shared_ptr@Vunit@@@5@@Z)
20100714 18:06:07< timotei> wb = whiteboard, so maybe you know how/what to fix
20100714 18:07:17< boucman> timotei: that's weird...
20100714 18:07:35< timotei> it's a VS error
20100714 18:07:39< boucman> it's alinking error, trying to reproduce... what building system do you use ?
20100714 18:07:42< boucman> oh, VS
20100714 18:07:49< timotei> oh wait.:|
20100714 18:07:53< timotei> attack.cpp was missing
20100714 18:07:55< timotei> :))
20100714 18:07:59< boucman> timotei: chances are that it's not compiling a file
20100714 18:08:02< boucman> :)
20100714 18:13:28< CIA-87> billynux * r44162 /trunk/src/network_manager_ana.cpp: Fixed a resource deallocation bug in ana.
20100714 18:17:26< billynux> If I connect two instances of a wesnoth client from the same PC to a wesnothd... is there any reason as to why if I create a server the other client won't see it?
20100714 18:18:38< gabba> timotei: yup, reading
20100714 18:18:50< timotei> gabba: fixed already:D, but thanks
20100714 18:19:08< gabba> ok, np
20100714 18:21:33< gabba> timotei, fendrin: not that I particularly want to be involved in another license discussion, but I think the LGPL license would be fine for the Eclipse plugin. Avoids problems with Gna!
20100714 18:21:59< timotei> gabba: there are no problems with GNA, we can move it to sourceforge :D
20100714 18:22:32< timotei> gabba: also, I can't GPL it, since I use another EPL plugins
20100714 18:22:32< timotei> :(
20100714 18:22:36< timotei> so, can't "restrict" it
20100714 18:22:56< gabba> timotei: LGPL =/= GPL, you know the difference don't you?
20100714 18:23:03< timotei> yeah
20100714 18:23:12< timotei> oh, I read GPL
20100714 18:23:13< timotei> :P
20100714 18:23:26< gabba> EPL allows you to relicense to whatever you want anyways I think
20100714 18:24:01< billynux> I'm off for a couple of hours
20100714 18:24:11< timotei> gabba: hmm
20100714 18:24:22< billynux> loonycyborg, if you are around, you can test the latest ana implementation a bit :)
20100714 18:24:46< gabba> I think LGPL (if possible) would be better as its closer to Wesnoth's license, and nobody can close-source it.
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20100714 18:25:04< timotei> but can it close an EPL?
20100714 18:25:14< gabba> uh?
20100714 18:26:20< timotei> well, ok, than I need to "uncommit" a license commit
20100714 18:26:51< timotei> but I'll ask the guys from eclipse about this
20100714 18:26:52< gabba> timotei: wait, I'm reading their license text
20100714 18:26:57< timotei> ok
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20100714 18:29:41< boucman> gabba: i'd be surprised if you could relicense lgpl in any way you want...
20100714 18:29:53< gabba> boucman: I never said that
20100714 18:30:12< boucman> gabba: lgpl is basically gpl for library, you can link with lgpl without having to gpl your code, but except for that the constraints are more or less the same as gpl
20100714 18:30:23< boucman> gabba: oops, I read you wrong, sorry
20100714 18:30:47< gabba> rather, I had the impression that the EPL allowed you to relicense under whatever you want, but I'm probably wrong... reading to confirm
20100714 18:31:41< boucman> gabba: is there anything new for me to test right now ?
20100714 18:31:48 * gabba is gonna pursue a career in law if this keeps going
20100714 18:31:51< boucman> btw, I have time now if you do...
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20100714 18:32:31< gabba> boucman: I did a few bugfixes yesterday, but otherwise nothing new
20100714 18:32:47< boucman> k
20100714 18:34:00< gabba> boucman: I need to address end-turn (I may just delete all actions for now) and then we could play an MP game I think.
20100714 18:35:22< boucman> gabba: ok... how complicated would it be to allow planning but not execution during other player's turn ? that's one of the key features we want in WB, and it would be cool to have it when we will do our first call for tester (limited to people able to build trunk
20100714 18:36:19< gabba> give me a sec, I finish the license research for timotei and I answer this
20100714 18:36:24< boucman> k
20100714 18:39:08< gabba> timotei: ok, with the EPL you must provide the source code of *derivative works*, but not if your code is in a separate module/plugin
20100714 18:39:35< gabba> timotei: so, if you modified an EPL plugin, you must provide the modifications under the EPL
20100714 18:39:44< timotei> yes I did :)
20100714 18:40:07< gabba> timotei: however, you can license your own, separate plugin under whatever you want (in theory), including the LGPL
20100714 18:40:14< timotei> yeah
20100714 18:40:30< gabba> timotei: you can' t license the plugin under GPL because of the GPL's requirements
20100714 18:40:45< timotei> yeah, I know GPL is not compatbile with EPL
20100714 18:42:49< gabba> So basically, I would advise using the LGPL for your plugin unless you copy EPL stuff into your plugin, or you want other people to use your stuff in their own EPL plugins
20100714 18:42:53< gabba> hope that helps...
20100714 18:43:05< timotei> yeah, thanks gabba ;)
20100714 18:43:21< timotei> you could start a law university :D
20100714 18:43:40< timotei> and participate again in gsoc ;))
20100714 18:43:44 * gabba gabba prefers coding and playing games :P
20100714 18:45:12< gabba> ok boucman, I'm trying to remember what it implies
20100714 18:45:46< boucman> the thing I see it could imply is invalid-check at each ennemy move
20100714 18:46:38< gabba> boucman: ah yes, the difficulty is that now I'm relying on the existing game logic to select and move units, and obviously it doesn't allow moving units outside of your turn
20100714 18:47:05< gabba> boucman: so I need to "fork" the code into the whiteboard higher up, if you see what I mean
20100714 18:47:27< gabba> not so easy since it relies a lot on the member variables of the mouse handler
20100714 18:48:04< boucman> hmm ok...
20100714 18:48:17< boucman> btw, change of plan I have to leave soon...
20100714 18:48:43< gabba> ah, too bad
20100714 18:50:22< boucman> you can always playtest with someone else :)
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20100714 19:07:03< gabba> hmm... actually that Eclipse Public License might be an interesting compromise for the whole iPhone conundrum... writing to the ML.
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20100714 19:22:13< Elvish_Pillager> shadowmaster: [store_side] doesn't work. In networked games, $side_var.controller| only evaluates to "ai" if you're the host.
20100714 19:22:26< Sirp> gabba: right now we're really more interested in working out what the major stakeholders in Wesnoth want (i.e. do they want Wesnoth on the iPhone or not? What conditions do they want on it?) and then we'll work out what we need to do wrt licensing to make that happen.
20100714 19:22:46< Sirp> the license should serve our purposes, rather than us serving the license's purposes.
20100714 19:24:03< gabba> Sirp: sure, you guys created Wesnoth, I won't get in your way
20100714 19:26:47< gabba> Sirp: I'm mostly interested in providing accurate info so people don't make judgments based on misunderstandings
20100714 19:27:17< gabba> even though I generally like more free software myself
20100714 19:29:00< Sirp> gabba: sure. It's just that I think people are getting a little too tanged up/confused over legalities. Ultimately we (everyone who has contributed to) own Wesnoth and can decide what to do with it. So that we need to decide. We're planning on a meeting concerning it that can be done in a more productive way than a ml discussion.
20100714 19:31:34< gabba> Sirp: still, I hope you'll consider the general impact on the free software community this will have given wesnoth's flagship status; as well as the eventuality of a fork (see what happened with nexuiz...). Just asking "do we want Wesnoth on the iPhone or not?" is a bit of a narrow approach.
20100714 19:32:37< Sirp> gabba: actually indeed. That's only one of the questions.
20100714 19:33:00< Sirp> I know what I think. But I want to find out what motivates all of Wesnoth's major stakeholders, and what they want.
20100714 19:34:23< elias> saying it should be GPL-only *and* on the iphone just leaves uncertainty (and if apple decides to remove it because of it at some point, just postpones the discussion)
20100714 19:35:04< elias> otoh, i guess there's 100ds or even 1000ds of GPL apps on there :P
20100714 19:38:08< loonycyborg> Let's just assume that apple's licensing shenanigans are null and void :P
20100714 19:38:15< gabba> well, I know I wouldn't scream if they decided to keep the ambiguous status quo... actually I'd prefer that to a relicensing
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20100714 19:47:11< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: that is basically the viewpoint i got
20100714 19:47:12< Ivanovic> ;)
20100714 19:48:20< timotei> hmm
20100714 19:48:34< timotei> 20100714 20:46:12 error config: macro/file '~add-ons/A_Simple_Campaign/macros' is missing at ~add-ons/my_camp/_main.cfg:59
20100714 19:48:45< timotei> is this a: twml_exception or a load_game_exception
20100714 19:48:45< timotei> ?
20100714 19:49:03< timotei> I'm getting this when loading the game on a campaign
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20100714 20:56:02< timotei> zookeeper: if I have an add-on, shouldn't it be listed in the "campaign" list?
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20100714 20:56:17< timotei> zookeeper: or I have to install it even if it's in add-ons dir?
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20100714 21:02:11< zookeeper> timotei, umm, the campaigns menu is for campaigns
20100714 21:02:23< zookeeper> not sure what you're asking exactly
20100714 21:03:04< timotei> well, how can I play my "campaign addon"?
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20100714 21:06:04< zookeeper> timotei, you open up the campaign menu and select your campaign :P
20100714 21:07:29< timotei> lol
20100714 21:07:31< timotei> =))
20100714 21:07:32< timotei> I hate this
20100714 21:07:39< timotei> one moment ago I could swear it's not there:|
20100714 21:10:38< timotei> is this a bug? when got error loading that campaign it won't list it anymore in campaign's list
20100714 21:10:38< timotei> :|
20100714 21:12:58< zookeeper> sounds like sane behaviour to me
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20100714 21:13:59< zookeeper> if there's an error then AFAIK the game can't make any sense of any of rest of the add-on's WML anymore, so it can't really work
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20100714 21:15:04< zookeeper> i think it's intentional: it used to be so that any WML error would cause the game to abort, but at some point the add-on handling was changed so that an error in an add-on wouldn't cause that
20100714 21:15:20< zookeeper> at least that's how i remember it
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20100714 21:15:30< elias> if there's a big error (like ignoring the campaign #define) i think it still can abort the game :P
20100714 21:15:37< zookeeper> yeah
20100714 21:15:38< Unnheulu> timotei: ooh, you have a campaign on the server
20100714 21:15:44< timotei> Unnheulu: :P
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20100714 21:15:48< Unnheulu> Is it a proper campaign?
20100714 21:15:49< timotei> Unnheulu: it's just for testing purposes
20100714 21:15:54< timotei> no, it's a dummy
20100714 21:15:58< Unnheulu> Ah
20100714 21:15:59< zookeeper> my guess would be that if there's an add-on error, the game just tries to backtrack and forget it ever saw that particular add-on...but i'm not sure
20100714 21:16:11< Unnheulu> Bye folks
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20100714 21:16:20< timotei> zookeeper: yeah, it's addon error
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20100714 21:28:21< silene> zookeeper: it doesn't really backtrack, it instead skips forward, since addons are loaded each in its own preprocessor context; i guess that, if a broken addon were to use [+something], it would have no trouble polluting core and other addons
20100714 21:29:55< silene> what i'm trying to say is that a proper backtrack would be able to recover from [+something] usage
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20100714 22:12:44< gabba> Crab_: what's the end_turn_exception for, exactly?
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20100714 22:16:32< Crab_> to interrupt the current turn when it's possible to do so, and do all the necessary things to go to next turn
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20100714 22:20:46< gabba> Crab_: I was wondering specifically why there's a try-catch around the code to move a unit in mouse_handler::move_unit_along_current_route, since the "end turn" button is disabled while a unit is moving
20100714 22:21:06< Crab_> gabba: see the example,  http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/wGyxDC7h
20100714 22:21:14< Crab_> my example will be with ai, it's similar
20100714 22:21:30< Crab_> if ai moves, and on move, triggers a wml event which does [end_turn]
20100714 22:21:56< Crab_> [end_turn] is handled by doing a resources::controller->force_end_turn(); call, which does a `end_turn_ = true;` part
20100714 22:22:17< gabba> ok, it's wml events again, I should have guessed
20100714 22:22:18< Crab_> we cannot end the turn at this point since there's unfinished business up the call stack, so we don't throw anything here
20100714 22:22:20< gabba> thanks Crab_
20100714 22:23:13< Crab_> after ai moves, we trigger a check for that variable (for the ai, via   manager::raise_gamestate_changed(); call which calls `void playsingle_controller::handle_generic_event(const std::string& name)` as a side effect
20100714 22:23:45< Crab_> and it does a   throw end_turn_exception(); , since at the time, we've done with all the move-related stuff and can safely jump-out-of-turn
20100714 22:24:26< Crab_> also, network side turn can end when we're doing ui updates
20100714 22:24:52< Crab_> so, it's not just [end_turn] wml event in the scenario configs
20100714 22:25:26< gabba> hmm, true
20100714 22:25:29< timotei> bye guys
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20100714 22:25:58< Crab_> but, there are places where code higher up the call stack wants to do some finalizing in case turn ends early
20100714 22:26:12< Crab_> gabba: that's why we do that try {} catch block after moving
20100714 22:26:56< Crab_> because move can end our turn prematurely, and we want to cleanup before we rethrow the exception to somewhere higher up the food chain  where it'll be caught for good.
20100714 22:28:21< gabba> Crab_: we can end up with a half-done move though, isn't it?
20100714 22:29:19< Crab_> definitely. [end_turn] in a [sighted] event :)
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20100714 22:29:39< Crab_> it'll be a 'done' move, but it'll be a case of 'not reached destination'
20100714 22:30:27< Crab_> gabba: or, (ambush)+(moveto event) + (end_turn)
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20100714 22:31:28< gabba> ouch, this is gonna be hard to deal with in my move::execute method, since I do a lot of checks after execution and modify the planned move if it ended halfway. There's no "finally" block in C++....
20100714 22:32:00< Crab_> gabba: destructors:)
20100714 22:32:46< gabba> yeah, I can make a custom class just for this, but it won't have access to member variables of the move class... unless I make it friend I guess. Hmm.
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20100714 22:35:31< Crab_> gabba: boost has stuff for this, as well. or you can do `catch..rethrow`
20100714 22:36:13< gabba> rethrow =  just "throw;" without argument, right?
20100714 22:36:22< Crab_> yes
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20100714 22:45:40< Elvish_Pillager> I'm writing an era and it would be useful for me to have information about [event]s that may exist on the map. Is there any way for WML to view this information? Does WML (or Lua) have any way to read the scenario cfg?
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20100714 22:59:50< billynux> Is it ok that I get <Invalid WML found> Terrain.... misses the .png extension. i.e. it's not a network issue right?
20100714 23:00:22< billynux> playing a map called "The Den of [a-Z]*"
20100714 23:00:30< Espreon> Uh, yeah...
20100714 23:00:40< zookeeper> Elvish_Pillager, WML sure doesn't, and i doubt lua does either
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20100714 23:00:50< billynux> thought so
20100714 23:01:10< Elvish_Pillager> zookeeper: okay :(
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20100714 23:05:01< silene> Elvish_Pillager: no, lua doesn't have access to the scenario content (yet)
20100714 23:05:14< Elvish_Pillager> ah hello silene
20100714 23:05:50< Elvish_Pillager> rejoice: I'm finally starting to use lua in my add-ons :p
20100714 23:06:51< silene> :-)
20100714 23:17:56< Elvish_Pillager> silene: hmph, is everything just faster when implemented in Lua than in WML? This is the stupidest way to optimize code ever :D
20100714 23:20:04< silene> Elvish_Pillager: it depends on the code; there is small overhead when executing wml actions and a big speedup when performing computations
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20100714 23:26:57< Elvish_Pillager> silene: some of the example code in some of the LuaWML pages in the wiki has simple mistakes in it (one lists wesnoth.float_text when it should be wesnoth.float_label, one omits "helper." in "helper.get_variable_array")...
20100714 23:28:58< silene> thanks, i will fix it once write accesses are restored
20100714 23:31:25< silene> if you find other issues, don't hesitate to post them; i will get them from the logs tomorrow
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20100714 23:40:18< Elvish_Pillager> silene: there's no clear_variable directly from lua? I have use wesnoth.fire?
20100714 23:42:46< shadowmaster> Elvish_Pillager: I advise filing  bug about [store_side] unless you have already found someone else who can help you fix it.
20100714 23:43:05< Elvish_Pillager> shadowmaster: how is that a bug?
20100714 23:43:06< shadowmaster> I'm not really fit for coding atm
20100714 23:43:28< Elvish_Pillager> I thought controller= was supposed to be different for networked sides
20100714 23:43:41< shadowmaster> but you said it turns out to be always "ai"?
20100714 23:43:45< Elvish_Pillager> no
20100714 23:43:48< Elvish_Pillager> it doesn't
20100714 23:44:00< shadowmaster> ah...I need to be the AI's host to know it's an AI.
20100714 23:44:03< shadowmaster> right, I understand.
20100714 23:44:08< Elvish_Pillager> yeah.
20100714 23:45:10< Elvish_Pillager> well, apparently the other clients can tell AI from human somehow, considering "AI sides transferred to host" when the host leaves.
20100714 23:45:18< Elvish_Pillager> I don't know if WML can, though.
20100714 23:46:22< Soliton> that's a server message.
20100714 23:46:42< Elvish_Pillager> well, then at least the server knows
20100714 23:46:56< Elvish_Pillager> so it's not entirely up to the client that controls the side.
20100714 23:47:16< Soliton> well, a modified client can lie about it.
20100714 23:47:56< Elvish_Pillager> Lie to the server? So that when the server transfers the sides, some of them change to or from AI?
20100714 23:49:08< Soliton> sure.
20100714 23:49:13< Elvish_Pillager> Ah.
20100714 23:49:57< Soliton> the server can't really know who controls a side locally.
20100714 23:50:10< Soliton> it's just cosmetic for those messages.
20100714 23:50:10< Elvish_Pillager> right
20100714 23:51:03< Elvish_Pillager> on the other hand, in practice, it's an objective truth whether a side is AI-controlled or not
20100714 23:51:37< Elvish_Pillager> it's possible to measure that by the trick of giving a message with options to that side (if AIs still choose no option, which is impossible for humans)
20100714 23:52:13< ABCD> Elvish_Pillager: except in the case of a modified client :D
20100714 23:52:17< Elvish_Pillager> well, of course.
20100714 23:52:43< Elvish_Pillager> But I don't have to worry about those - if someone gives themselves a modified client so that they can disadvantage themselves at my era, I could care less :p
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--- Log closed Thu Jul 15 00:00:55 2010