--- Log opened Thu Jul 29 00:00:13 2010
--- Day changed Thu Jul 29 2010
20100729 00:00:13< eleazar_> alink:  good, then if i can get this to compile i can go right back to work
20100729 00:00:22< anonymissimus> fendrin: anonymissimus>	merman hoplite: attack type in the melee attack animation needs to be spear
20100729 00:00:24< anonymissimus> 	<anonymissimus>	someone fixes that plz
20100729 00:00:52< anonymissimus> in 1.8 and 1.9
20100729 00:01:12< CIA-87> alink * r44831 /trunk/src/display.cpp: 
20100729 00:01:12< CIA-87> Fix typo in the local_light prototype
20100729 00:01:13< CIA-87> (causing glitches with ToD not modifying the 3 RGB channels)
20100729 00:02:03< fendrin> anonymissimus: wrong weapon image?
20100729 00:02:09< anonymissimus> no
20100729 00:02:21< anonymissimus> the type of the attack in the filter of the animation
20100729 00:02:32< anonymissimus> oother than that it works
20100729 00:02:52< anonymissimus> have it locally fixed
20100729 00:03:24< fendrin> anonymissimus: Then please send in a patch. 
20100729 00:05:35< eleazar_> what's "wesnothd" BTW?
20100729 00:07:08< shadowmaster> eleazar_: the server daemon
20100729 00:07:16< shadowmaster> for MP games, that is. campaignd is the add-ons server daemon.
20100729 00:07:53< eleazar_> good, so i don't need to worry about compiling it.
20100729 00:08:28< shadowmaster> unless you want to host a server instance for playing on a LAN or in private through the internet (wesnothd is started by the "host a local networked game"  option in the MP menu), no ;)
20100729 00:10:13< shadowmaster> and campaignd is basically useless for anyone who isn't working on hacking for the official add-ons server. It's badly documented, badly designed and might not work on non-Linux platforms properly
20100729 00:10:28< anonymissimus> fendrin: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1779
20100729 00:10:57< anonymissimus> there were at least three bugs of this type lately
20100729 00:11:46< boucman> night all
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20100729 00:17:46< eleazar_> I barely know enough to compile on a good day.  Just before i left for vacation i upgraded to OsX 10.6 and the latest version of Xcode.  Now compiling fails.
20100729 00:17:53< eleazar_> Here's my errors: http://pastebin.com/EQqdmEr1
20100729 00:18:48< alink> gabba1: ^
20100729 00:19:40< eleazar_> There are no new source files in "whiteboard" that need to be included
20100729 00:20:02< eleazar_> any assistance is of course appreciated
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20100729 00:21:14< gabba1> alink: what's going on exactly?
20100729 00:21:38< alink> no idea, but the eleazar_ bt point to a wb function
20100729 00:21:58< eleazar_> My previous compile (somewhat amusingly) refuses to display any base tiles when updated with the latest terrain CFGs
20100729 00:25:28< loonycyborg> eleazar_: You need to ask crimson_penguin.
20100729 00:26:24< eleazar_> crimson_penguin: hey is the mac project up to date with the latest source files?
20100729 00:26:25< loonycyborg> Some of your errors seem to be caused by some MacOS api calls not working anymore. Probably they got removed after your update.
20100729 00:26:49< alink> gabba1: yes sry, the wb part seems ok, not sure why the eleazar's compiler complains about it
20100729 00:26:52< crimson_penguin> eleazar_: nope, I haven't compiled anything from trunk yet
20100729 00:27:15< eleazar_> loonycyborg: oh, i might know how to fix that...
20100729 00:27:17< crimson_penguin> eleazar_: but that doesn't look like that kind of problem
20100729 00:27:23< gabba1> alink: yeah, it's standard stl stuff...
20100729 00:27:34< gabba1> I have to leave now anyhow, bye all
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20100729 00:27:46< crimson_penguin> eleazar_: oh, did you not install the 10.4 SDK, but you're trying to use it?
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20100729 00:27:58< crimson_penguin> oh, no, you're using 10.6 SDK
20100729 00:28:09< Sapient> yo
20100729 00:28:11< crimson_penguin> perhaps that's the problem though... I still use the 10.4 SDK
20100729 00:28:14< crimson_penguin> hi Sapient 
20100729 00:28:16< alink> hello Sapient
20100729 00:28:33< Sapient> hi crim and alink
20100729 00:28:50< eleazar_> crimson_penguin: 10.5 worked fine 2 weeks ago, then i upgraded my Os
20100729 00:28:51< Sapient> shadowmaster: I'm reading your article now. very interesting
20100729 00:29:07< crimson_penguin> eleazar_: try changing the SDK to 10.5 then
20100729 00:29:25< eleazar_> crimson_penguin: is that a preference in Xcode?
20100729 00:29:37< crimson_penguin> eleazar_: it's a setting in Project Settings
20100729 00:29:48< crimson_penguin> or perhaps in Target Settings
20100729 00:29:57< crimson_penguin> (it's in both, but you might have to set it in the latter)
20100729 00:30:09< crimson_penguin> set it in the latter just to be safe, since you will have to recompile the whole thing
20100729 00:30:15< eleazar_> so "base SDK for all configureations"
20100729 00:30:41< eleazar_> it's currently set to 10.4
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20100729 00:32:10< eleazar_> for target it was 10.6.  Setting to 10.5
20100729 00:32:18< crimson_penguin> ok, good
20100729 00:33:24< eleazar_> crimson_penguin: thanks.  attempting to compile again
20100729 00:36:43< Sapient> shadowmaster: "Its relative ease of use also drives unexperienced programmers to make false assumptions about how it works"
20100729 00:37:55< Sapient> I consider that a good thing about WML, that people who don't understand programming can still achieve many things and don't have to totally understand how it works
20100729 00:38:51< shadowmaster> except that then confusion ensues when it doesn't work like they expected.
20100729 00:39:39< Sapient> well, this is a whole different class of authors than those who traditionally would post to programming forums
20100729 00:40:27< Sapient> so it is opening doors and you get more people with different sorts of questions
20100729 00:41:23< Sapient> I agree that there are serious flaws with the design of WML, though you didn't really go into any of them
20100729 00:42:36< Sapient> mostly they are still there because of legacy reasons and if we were rewriting the engine from the ground up it could be changed while keeping the fundamental nature of the language intact
20100729 00:43:46< Sapient> but do we really want to throw out and invalidate every campaign and user content written to date?
20100729 00:44:00< eleazar_> crimson_penguin: that didn't help.  Got the same errors
20100729 00:44:07< crimson_penguin> odd
20100729 00:44:18< crimson_penguin> is 10.4 an option?
20100729 00:44:23< eleazar_> yup
20100729 00:44:28< crimson_penguin> try that then
20100729 00:44:31< shadowmaster> Sapient: nope.
20100729 00:44:36< eleazar_> for target you mean?
20100729 00:44:49< crimson_penguin> yeah
20100729 00:45:17< shadowmaster> Sapient: however, in practice many engine changes have occurred that affect existing content relying on undefined/deprecated behavior and since most people use don't use wmllint or don't know how to use it...
20100729 00:45:21< shadowmaster> wait, that's tangential to the point :P
20100729 00:45:50< Sapient> as for the "opacity" of vconfig I am mostly to blame for that mess
20100729 00:46:08< Sapient> the comments are there but it's not organized well
20100729 00:46:32< shadowmaster> well, in part it doesn't matter because most devs don't need to know what goes on inside.
20100729 00:46:42< eleazar_> crimson_penguin: build failed 5000 errors ~
20100729 00:46:44< shadowmaster> it's like a useful blackbox. However, hard to track bugs have also appeared due to that design.
20100729 00:46:44< eleazar_> !
20100729 00:46:50< crimson_penguin> wow
20100729 00:46:59< eleazar_> heh
20100729 00:47:06< crimson_penguin> maybe 10.4 isn't really there
20100729 00:47:06< shadowmaster> double-sided weapon.
20100729 00:47:14< crimson_penguin> it isn't installed by default
20100729 00:47:45< crimson_penguin> but really... I thought it worked in newer SDKs, that probably isn't that problem
20100729 00:48:07< shadowmaster> yes, that's it. vconfig is a double-sided blade weapon :P
20100729 00:48:29< Sapient> shadowmaster: yes, hopefully it is easier to understand than the preprocessor code though. I do put comments when I am doing something that I consider non-obvious
20100729 00:48:37< shadowmaster> or should I say, Swiss Army Knife with multiple double-sided blades.
20100729 00:48:46< Sapient> it's just hard to absorb the whole file at once
20100729 00:49:24< Sapient> but the indicidual pieces make sense
20100729 00:51:14< Sapient> shadowmaster: I would argue that more hard-to-track bugs could be more accurately blamed on implicit conversions
20100729 00:53:36< Sapient> having your t_string or *cfg magically turn into the correct type is certainly convenient but it could also be considered lazy
20100729 00:58:52< shadowmaster> it could be considered lazy, but if it makes the code more readable it should be a good thing.
20100729 00:59:21< shadowmaster> on the other hand, t_string has some subtle issues that might or might not have been solved already.
20100729 00:59:48< Sapient> it is more readable in a sense but it conceals what is really happening which lead to incorrect assumptions
20100729 00:59:55< shadowmaster> IIRC there was a seemingly innocent practice that would lead to segmentation faults due to dereferencing memory using a dangling pointer or reference
20100729 01:03:24< Sapient> yes, the SVN history for game_events was very funny on that one... people kept changing it back and forth from string temporary variables to &string temporary variables
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20100729 01:14:07< CIA-87> alink * r44832 /trunk/src/image.cpp: Don't use (semi-)brightened cache when disabled (as it is currently in trunk)
20100729 01:14:09< CIA-87> alink * r44833 /trunk/src/image.cpp: 
20100729 01:14:09< CIA-87> Generalize method used in previous commit to other image types
20100729 01:14:09< CIA-87> (simplify them when possible)
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20100729 02:45:34< DigitalSeraphim> Hello all!  I'm interested in helping out, and was interested in looking at the "Config Writer" task listed on http://wiki.wesnoth.org/NotSoEasyCoding .   Does anyone know if this task is still wanted, and also if it is already taken?
20100729 02:47:28< alink> DigitalSeraphim: AFAIK, not taken and that seems to be a good idea
20100729 02:47:44< PetePorty> If I was you, I'd ask shadowm_laptop, he's the guy who answers all my questions.
20100729 02:48:02< shadowmaster> if I were you...
20100729 02:48:21< shadowmaster> I don't know about the tasks there and I'm not well informed about the current development status overall ;)
20100729 02:48:22< alink> DigitalSeraphim: devs probably knowing that area: silene and YogiHH
20100729 02:48:38< alink> wesbot: YogiHH
20100729 02:48:44< alink> wesbot: seen YogiHH
20100729 02:48:44< wesbot> alink: The person with the nick YogiHH last spoke 38d 14h ago.  30d 5h ago they left with the message: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]
20100729 02:49:07< alink> hmm YogiHH seems inactive 
20100729 02:49:33< shadowmaster> maybe YogiHH is stuck in a hostital after the Experimental Fork exploded or soD[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[Dmething.
20100729 02:49:47< shadowmaster> hospital.
20100729 02:50:56< DigitalSeraphim> Ok, I'll take a look at it before marking it as taken.  I'll hang out here in the meantime in case someone has questions/suggestions for me.  Thanks!
20100729 02:51:23< alink> DigitalSeraphim: IIRC there was some improvement of savegame in early 1.9.0, it is possible that someone improved that area. I suggest to check commits log or changelog
20100729 02:51:44< DigitalSeraphim> alink: ok, thanks. I will do just that
20100729 02:52:16< alink> or you could start to read code directly ;) 
20100729 02:53:19< DigitalSeraphim> going to do both.  <sarcasm> I love looking at other people's code </sarcasm> :)  actually, I don't mind it at all
20100729 02:54:27< DigitalSeraphim> alink: you said 1.9, however not seeing any version tagged as 1.9, only up to 1.8.3
20100729 02:54:45< alink> I mean trunk
20100729 02:55:01< alink> future-1.9.0 if you want
20100729 02:55:21< DigitalSeraphim> oh, ok.
20100729 02:55:23< DigitalSeraphim> thanks
20100729 02:55:24< alink> or post 1.8
20100729 02:55:43< alink> DigitalSeraphim: checking wiki history, Sapient and Rusty may know more about that "config writer"
20100729 02:56:13< alink> and Sapient is often here
20100729 02:58:28< alink> DigitalSeraphim: don't forget to read irc logs in case someone answer to you when you are not around http://irclogs.wesnoth.org 
20100729 02:59:18< DigitalSeraphim> alink: Bookmarked :)  Thanks
20100729 03:02:35< CIA-87> alink * r44834 /trunk/src/ (mouse_events.cpp mouse_events.hpp): 
20100729 03:02:35< CIA-87> Fix move+attack not interrupted if ambushed at destination.
20100729 03:02:35< CIA-87> Works by scanning adjacent enemies before and after move, so it could detect
20100729 03:02:35< CIA-87> other cases than simple ambush (WML events).
20100729 03:04:01< eleazar_> Has anyone tried running a recently complied version of wesnoth?
20100729 03:04:10< alink> me
20100729 03:04:30< eleazar_> no huge swathes of black in the terrian?
20100729 03:04:30< alink> but not reallt tested/played
20100729 03:04:48< alink> no, screenshot ?
20100729 03:05:05< eleazar_> only overlays and transitions show up
20100729 03:05:11< eleazar_> base layers are black
20100729 03:05:16< alink> This remind me Mac+SDL bug
20100729 03:05:47< alink> mmh, only base layers, then it's related to terrain not SDL
20100729 03:05:57< shadowmaster> the smudging bug? :P
20100729 03:05:58< eleazar_> this is with current cfgs in an 2 week old compile
20100729 03:06:02< alink> eleazar_: not using local_light ?
20100729 03:06:14< shadowmaster> anyway, I had that issue with no base terrains appearing on the game but I haven't rebuilt wesnoth recently I think
20100729 03:07:04< eleazar_> alink: is that in game_config?
20100729 03:07:17< alink> eleazar_: yes
20100729 03:07:22< DigitalSeraphim> i'm grabbing trunk right now.  can build and test once it's done.  btw, what is the approximate compile time?
20100729 03:07:34< alink> I will soon move it in advanced preferences
20100729 03:08:02< alink> DigitalSeraphim: I think I do a full 0build in <30 min
20100729 03:08:06< shadowmaster> DigitalSeraphim: on a laptop with 4 GB of RAM and a dual-core 2 GHz AMD Athlon64, 30-45 minutes
20100729 03:08:11< shadowmaster> at least with -O3
20100729 03:08:21< alink> full -O0 build in <30 min
20100729 03:08:22< shadowmaster> may take less time with -O0 if you have enough free RAM
20100729 03:08:28< shadowmaster> yep
20100729 03:08:41< DigitalSeraphim> k, thanks
20100729 03:08:44< alink> using make -j3 with dual core
20100729 03:08:51< eleazar_> alink: "no" or "false" turns it off?
20100729 03:08:54< shadowmaster> I use -j 4
20100729 03:08:59< DigitalSeraphim> alink: of course!! :)
20100729 03:09:08< shadowmaster> anything less than 4 takes much more time
20100729 03:09:21< alink> eleazar_: I use yes/no, but false should works too
20100729 03:09:32< alink> and yes, no=off
20100729 03:09:47< alink> eleazar_: and it's off by default on trunk
20100729 03:09:59< eleazar_> yeah, but i turned it on
20100729 03:10:09< eleazar_> we'll see if turning it off fixes anything
20100729 03:10:13< eleazar_> nope
20100729 03:11:05< alink> eleazar_: screenshot ? log output ?
20100729 03:12:14< eleazar_> http://img838.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20100728at811.png/
20100729 03:12:33< alink> thanks
20100729 03:12:57< alink> clean trunk ?
20100729 03:13:16< eleazar_> ?
20100729 03:13:21< DigitalSeraphim> I need a new laptop... single core... 3 GB ram...  web irc client and svn are killing my cpu... this is not going to go well, is it? :^)
20100729 03:13:36< alink> I mean no other local change (since you are a terrain artist)
20100729 03:14:10< eleazar_> it's a complie from 2 weeks ago with terrain CFGs copied directly from the trunk
20100729 03:14:16< alink> DigitalSeraphim: or maybe better configure your system ;-p
20100729 03:15:52< alink> eleazar_: oh, some dirty mix, then it probably comes from that (since you seems to be the only one having that bug)
20100729 03:16:53< eleazar_> probably, but when i can't compile, i have to make it work like this
20100729 03:17:21< eleazar_> i can't imagine what could cause this--- short of changing a bunch of image paths
20100729 03:17:30< alink> eleazar_: then maybe use cfg from 2 weeks ago and just update the file you want to edit 
20100729 03:18:10< eleazar_> alink: thanks, i'm being stupid...  i should have a backup
20100729 03:18:17< eleazar_> and i can run a diff
20100729 03:18:30< alink> you can get it from svn
20100729 03:18:45< alink> you may also try with :debug and :refresh to see if it's missing images or black images
20100729 03:19:19< alink> mmh ah no that will not work for terrain, sry
20100729 03:19:29< alink> this bug is puzzling
20100729 03:19:59< alink> however, since it's probably not on trunk, I stop trying to understand it :-)
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20100729 03:23:20< DigitalSeraphim_> ahh, much better.  no longer using web irc client
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20100729 03:30:28< alink> shadowmaster: here make -j3 is faster, but it's probably a RAM problem, -j4 eats too much of my 2GB
20100729 03:33:19< DigitalSeraphim> alink: do you know if  the sdl 1.2.14 issue mentioned in INSTALL still valid?  debian squeeze only has 1.2.14-6 available.  going to have to install 1.2.13-2 from lenny in order to get a 1.2.13 version
20100729 03:34:22< alink> DigitalSeraphim: sry I have not followed that sdl version thing
20100729 03:34:43< DigitalSeraphim> ok, no problem, i will just revert to the older version if i can.  thanks
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20100729 03:36:34< alink> in GMT times more devs can help you for this kind of things
20100729 03:38:42< alink> afk
20100729 03:39:27< DigitalSeraphim> alink: thanks
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20100729 04:20:32< DigitalSeraphim> alink and eleazar_: just tested full trunk and terrain is showing up correctly for me.  and only took 22 minutes on my single proc 2.16 GHZ, 3 GB machine with make -j3
20100729 04:20:50< DigitalSeraphim> only built wesnoth and wesnothd, so that may be the difference
20100729 04:21:14< eleazar_> DigitalSeraphim: thanks.
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20100729 04:30:14< CIA-87> silene * r44835 /trunk/data/core/units/merfolk/Hoplite.cfg: Fixed broken attack animation. (Patch #1779 by Anonymissimus.)
20100729 04:31:57< CIA-87> silene * r44836 /branches/1.8/data/core/units/merfolk/Hoplite.cfg: 
20100729 04:31:57< CIA-87> Fixed broken attack animation. (Patch #1779 by Anonymissimus.)
20100729 04:31:57< CIA-87> Backported from trunk r44835.
20100729 04:32:08< DigitalSeraphim> is there anyone around who can give me a good place to start looking to work on the "Config Writer" task?  I want to make sure that I'm looking at the right stuff.
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20100729 05:00:12< alink> DigitalSeraphim: since it's an optimization, perhaps a first step is to profile or check time taken when saving. It will help to see the bottleneck and the involved functions.
20100729 05:00:40< alink> Also, the bottleneck may have changed a bit since that task was written
20100729 05:01:59< alink> but as I understand it, it's about function like unit::write(config& cfg) which write the main config objects. I believe that they are always walled write()
20100729 05:02:10< alink> *called
20100729 05:02:48< alink> but I don't often work there. I am more a read() coder :-)
20100729 05:03:40< alink> mmh it's maybe more about the code calling all these write() functions
20100729 05:06:43< alink> Also we have doxygen documentation http://devdocs.wesnoth.org/
20100729 05:07:10< alink> where there is caller and called graph for unit::write()  (for example) : http://devdocs.wesnoth.org/classunit.html#ac9ab0a8337561be4c4e60640bbbe5f0
20100729 05:08:47< alink> hmmm i don't see any saving function there. Maybe, better to start from save_game() or similar
20100729 05:09:47< alink> bye
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20100729 06:20:38< shadowmaster> eleazar_: terrains look fine in my trunk build.
20100729 06:20:42 * shadowmaster went away for really long, uh?
20100729 06:22:45< shadowmaster> http://shadowm.rewound.net/r44833.png
20100729 06:32:33< CIA-87> espreon * r44837 /trunk/data/core/images/portraits/humans/transparent/swordsman-2.png: Ran umcpropfix.
20100729 06:34:40-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-127-109.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: And that’s the end of THAT chapter.]
20100729 06:34:55< CIA-87> espreon * r44838 /trunk/utils/java/ (22 files in 7 dirs): Ran umcpropfix.
20100729 06:35:05< Espreon> Ugh, I'll have to manually fix some stuff there...
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20100729 06:44:33< shadowmaster> am I in the right place to ask about choosing from external hard disk manufacturers?
20100729 06:44:37< shadowmaster> oops.
20100729 06:44:48< shadowmaster> wrong channel. carry on.
20100729 07:19:08< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Elements-External-WDBAAU0020HBK-NESN/dp/B002QEBMCI/
20100729 07:19:30< Aethaeryn> I formatted it ext4 and it's worked great, have had it for about 2 months.
20100729 07:19:32< Aethaeryn> Very fast too
20100729 07:21:05< Aethaeryn> I've used it for daily backups basically since I got it, so I've put a bit more stress on it than some might.
20100729 07:21:06< shadowmaster> I'm not sure about ext4.
20100729 07:21:13< shadowmaster> I mean, it's support both at the kernel and userland sides is fairly recent.
20100729 07:21:28< Aethaeryn> Ah, well, my laptop is ext3
20100729 07:21:36< shadowmaster> I'd probably use XFS instead, if only because it doesn't require periodic fscks.
20100729 07:21:54< Aethaeryn> So I figure the odds of both my laptop and my external HDD failing at the same time aren't too high.
20100729 07:22:03< shadowmaster> and yes, my working filesystems are all ext3, except for /tmp and /usr/local which are on XFS.
20100729 07:22:23< shadowmaster> I've used ext3 from day zero despite openSU- I mean, SUSE Linux 9.1 offered ReiserFS as the default
20100729 07:22:51< shadowmaster> only because I heard good comments about it on TV.
20100729 07:22:52< Aethaeryn> ah, well, I check reviews and do my homework on computer parts
20100729 07:22:58< Aethaeryn> the one I have appears to be solid
20100729 07:23:03< shadowmaster> so far it's lived up to my expectatives
20100729 07:23:09< Aethaeryn> (solid as in good for use, not SSD)
20100729 07:23:37< shadowmaster> ah, those days when technology-oriented shows existed in Chilean TV :(
20100729 07:23:37< Espreon> shadowmaster: What's wrong with ext4?
20100729 07:23:49< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: they're not really on any TV now
20100729 07:23:51< shadowmaster> that was what encouraged me to try Linux in the first place
20100729 07:23:53< Aethaeryn> for many years
20100729 07:23:54< shadowmaster> (
20100729 07:23:57< shadowmaster> *  :(
20100729 07:24:03< Aethaeryn> We had G4 for games and Tech TV for the tech stuff
20100729 07:24:10< Aethaeryn> maybe 5+ years ago they merged into G4 Tech TV
20100729 07:24:16 * Espreon wonders what mainly plagues Chilean TV
20100729 07:24:28< Aethaeryn> and gradually all but maybe 1-2 shows dropped from the Tech TV part and it became G4 again essentially
20100729 07:24:30< shadowmaster> Espreon: soap operas, showbiz stuff, mainly
20100729 07:24:36< Aethaeryn> and now G4 runs things like "Ninja Warrior" and "Cops" and crappy movies
20100729 07:24:47< Aethaeryn> Since gamers are following the other techies in getting everything off the Web
20100729 07:25:00< Espreon> shadowmaster: Is there anything good on TV in Chile?
20100729 07:25:04< shadowmaster> Espreon: the broadcast channels buy a lot of Mexican, Venezolan and Colombian soap operas.
20100729 07:25:07< shadowmaster> Espreon: there used to be :(
20100729 07:25:10< Aethaeryn> Espreon: is there anything good on TV?
20100729 07:25:17< Espreon> Not really...
20100729 07:25:22< Espreon> ... not anymore at least...
20100729 07:25:32< Aethaeryn> Sci Fi had a handful of good series.
20100729 07:25:40< Aethaeryn> Back before they changed their name to Syfy. 
20100729 07:25:45< shadowmaster> back in the day, Chilevisión would have anime series and such, TVN would have US shows
20100729 07:25:56< Aethaeryn> But SG-1 jumped the shark, Atlantis couldn't hold its own, BSG got really weird after the 2nd season or so...
20100729 07:25:59< Espreon> .... and Cartoon Network is now a desolate wasteland.
20100729 07:26:02< shadowmaster> that was when I was in school, so I didn't have time to watch much.
20100729 07:26:04< Aethaeryn> MST3k really should have never been cancelled
20100729 07:26:10< Espreon> ... with non-cartoon stuff....
20100729 07:26:10< shadowmaster> now that I have time, it's all crap.
20100729 07:26:17< Aethaeryn> I mean seriously, it's as if there's some conspiracy to get me to NOT watch TV
20100729 07:26:26< Aethaeryn> everything I like either gets cancelled or ruined-and-then-cancelled
20100729 07:26:32< shadowmaster> crap, crap, crap, crap, crap.
20100729 07:26:32< Aethaeryn> I guess I just have obscure tastes
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20100729 07:26:49< shadowmaster> I'm not interested on what some TV actor does in the bathroom.
20100729 07:26:49< Aethaeryn> honestly, idk what's worse...
20100729 07:26:55< shadowmaster> I want to watch fun stuff to relax.
20100729 07:26:59< shadowmaster> I hate gossiping.
20100729 07:27:11< Espreon> But everyone's doin' it!™
20100729 07:27:19< Aethaeryn> getting cancelled at its prime, or having a few really awful seasons and have it get cancelled months/years after I stop watching it anyway
20100729 07:27:24< Aethaeryn> Espreon: which is worse?
20100729 07:27:38< Aethaeryn> at least with the former I have good memories, but it is tragic having the storyline cut short
20100729 07:27:46< Aethaeryn> even if the storyline is saved from terribleness
20100729 07:27:57< Espreon> Meh, IDK...
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20100729 07:27:59< shadowmaster> Espreon: so I'd be pretty much an anime fan if they continued broadcasting those in local, non-paid TV here :3
20100729 07:28:06< shadowmaster> I got only halfway there.
20100729 07:28:10< Espreon> LOL, local.
20100729 07:28:18< shadowmaster> then I concentrated my attention on Wesnoth and it's all history now.
20100729 07:28:28< Aethaeryn> YouTube is my new TV
20100729 07:28:46< Aethaeryn> There's so many things on there... comedy, lectures, news, trolling...
20100729 07:28:58< Aethaeryn> you get everything you need, including a ton of stuff you'll never see on TV
20100729 07:29:04< Aethaeryn> and they're anywhere from 2-5 minutes to an hour.
20100729 07:29:08< shadowmaster> USA citizens have it easy with free content in the likes of YouTube and hulu ;P
20100729 07:29:14< Aethaeryn> so yeah, you can get full-length things if you know where to look
20100729 07:29:15< shadowmaster> that's naturally restricted for the rest of the world.
20100729 07:29:37< Aethaeryn> meh
20100729 07:29:40< Aethaeryn> governments are stupid
20100729 07:29:47< Aethaeryn> just have one world Internet community
20100729 07:29:49< Aethaeryn> and never leave your house
20100729 07:29:54< Aethaeryn> there, no need for governments anymore
20100729 07:30:01< Espreon> Who uses Hulu?
20100729 07:30:20< Espreon> Also, why not consider using seven American proxies.
20100729 07:30:22< Espreon> *?
20100729 07:32:29< Aethaeryn> Well, the companies get what they deserve for being so American-centric.
20100729 07:33:00< Aethaeryn> It seems like almost every young person outside of the USA pirates stuff. Even Canadians I've known.
20100729 07:33:14< Aethaeryn> So just like pre-iTunes/Amazon MP3s, if you don't give an easy/safe legal route, everyone will still get the content.
20100729 07:33:19< Aethaeryn> They just miss out on the money.
20100729 07:33:43< Aethaeryn> It's in their best interests to provide a legal route.
20100729 07:35:06< Aethaeryn> And no, I'm not condoning piracy, I'm just saying it's understandable for people outside the USA who are used to getting screwed over by region systems and other archaic stupid shit.
20100729 07:35:44< Aethaeryn> Note that in this case, they'd probably be legal customers if American companies weren't so damn conservative.
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20100729 08:11:08< silene> DigitalSeraphim_: concerning config writers, i think it is an ill-advised optimization; it causes code duplication between plain config and config_writer cases and the speed improvement is hardly noticeable
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20100729 08:26:47< shadowmaster> http://shadowm.rewound.net/muchbetter.png
20100729 08:26:59< shadowmaster> maybe now I can convince more people to switch to prosilver.
20100729 08:27:07< shadowmaster> making it the default should also work.
20100729 08:28:49< Rhonda> shadowmaster: What for?
20100729 08:29:48< Rhonda> Ah, read the context. de nada.
20100729 08:29:56< shadowmaster> yeah.
20100729 08:30:25< shadowmaster> It's hard for me to run to fix the database when I'm sleeping (*looks in fendrin's general direction*)
20100729 08:32:21< Rhonda> It's good that we have people with access in different timezones.
20100729 08:32:42< Rhonda> Or at least I really hope so that we aren't all in europe. :)
20100729 08:32:56< shadowmaster> sure ;)
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20100729 09:00:35< shadowmaster> two SQL ERROR [ mysqli ]
20100729 09:00:37< shadowmaster> Data too long for column 'ban_give_reason' at row 1 [1406]
20100729 09:00:42< shadowmaster> damn you phpBB.
20100729 09:01:26< shadowmaster> I had to remove the "Thanks in advance " part of the IP ban message to submit the ban list entry.
20100729 09:02:07 * shadowmaster goes to complain to upstream
20100729 09:02:40-!- euschn [~eugen@wesnoth/developer/euschn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100729 09:05:32< shadowmaster> I hadn't seen such persistence in a long time, so I had to set an IP ban with a good message in case it catches legitimate users from some DHCP IP pool.
20100729 09:20:21< shadowmaster> pah, reverted to subsilver2 because of some problem with the attachment boxes' CSS rules that make scrollbars appear.
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20100729 09:57:24< CIA-87> zookeeper * r44839 /trunk/data/campaigns/An_Orcish_Incursion/scenarios/05_Linaera_the_Quick.cfg: Cleaned up Linaera's cutscene teleportation and gave her and her three mages the loyal trait (instead of only having upkeep=free).
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20100729 10:05:36< Ivanovic> moin
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20100729 10:44:39< CIA-87> zookeeper * r44840 /trunk/data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/scenarios/05a_The_Pursuit.cfg: Fixed one of the death knights missing a name.
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20100729 11:07:54< Ivanovic> wow, this one sounds strange... http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30943&start=0
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20100729 11:26:53< Unnheulu> gabba: why does the whiteboard switch itself on at the start of every turn in sp?
20100729 11:28:01< gabba> Unnheulu: it's (presumably) because you press ctrl+space to end the turn, and it causes a weird interaction. I should commit a final fix for this now though. Did you try yesterdays' fix?
20100729 11:28:19< Unnheulu> No
20100729 11:28:22< Unnheulu> Ok, thanks
20100729 11:28:53< Unnheulu> So if I just use end turn it won't turn on
20100729 11:31:28< gabba> Unnheulu: it shouldn't
20100729 11:31:55< gabba> anyways the final fix is coming soonish
20100729 11:34:37< silene> gabba: could you also disable the ctrl key when the console is open? it is a bit annoying that ctrl+aexcv... does more than handling text input
20100729 11:36:02< gabba> silene: ok, I'll look into that tomorrow. What happens exactly when you do use the console together with those key combinations?
20100729 11:37:59< CIA-87> ivanovic * r44841 /branches/1.8/ (changelog players_changelog): some more 1.8 changelog updates...
20100729 11:38:56< Unnheulu> Ivanovic: is 1.8.4 about to be released?
20100729 11:39:02< Ivanovic> Unnheulu: no
20100729 11:39:05< Unnheulu> Kay :P
20100729 11:39:13< silene> gabba: the same thing that happens with any text editor, moving the cursor, copying words, things like that
20100729 11:39:18< Ivanovic> i just update the changelogs regulary since some (okay, many...) devs do forget to do so
20100729 11:39:29< Unnheulu> :)
20100729 11:39:42< Ivanovic> and you know, releasing with a changelog with just 5 translation updates listed feels so strange
20100729 11:39:50< Unnheulu> Hehe
20100729 11:39:51< Ivanovic> now it does really show that there *were* several changes
20100729 11:40:44< gabba> silene: ok, but you're not clicking the mouse while copying/pasting text, so I don't see how it could get annoying while you're using the console
20100729 11:40:58< silene> gabba: the message flood
20100729 11:41:34< Ivanovic> AI0867, esr, Espreon, fendrin, gabba, shadowmaster, silene, Soliton, Upthorn, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: what do you think of releasing 1.9.0 on sunday?
20100729 11:41:41< gabba> silene: you mean the help text destined to let people know what to do in case they accidentally use the WB?
20100729 11:41:41< Ivanovic> is trunk in a releasable state?
20100729 11:41:49< silene> gabba: yes
20100729 11:42:01< Ivanovic> (as in: cache creation times are okay? new features working? no grave showstoppers open? ...)
20100729 11:42:19< silene> Ivanovic: it is in releasable state, but i don't if we have recovered error messages yet
20100729 11:42:25< gabba> silene: ok, I was precisely changing its display condition to only show up when you first create a planned action, so it shouldn't get in your way anymore
20100729 11:42:37< silene> gabba: great
20100729 11:42:57< Upthorn> Ivanovic: there are some half-finished features that should be removed. Specifically whiteboard is still problematic on Windows when activated.
20100729 11:43:47< Upthorn> so you'll want to at least disable the "ctrl-key toggles whiteboard" 
20100729 11:43:51< gabba> Upthorn: what exactly? I haven't received anymore reports to that effect.
20100729 11:44:01< gabba> Upthorn: already fixed in the upcoming commit
20100729 11:44:01< Ivanovic> Upthorn: this release should specifically *show* those new features so that we get some feedback about outstanding issues!
20100729 11:44:09< Ivanovic> ;)
20100729 11:44:32< CIA-87> zookeeper * r44842 /trunk/data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/scenarios/ (3 files): Wired in the AI controller to all NR scenarios where it seemed to make sense ('Infested Caves' excluded on purpose for now) as well as made Stalrag unable to die during the first two turns in 'Settling Disputes'.
20100729 11:44:50< zookeeper> Ivanovic, i haven't been playing trunk much, so i don't really know how stable it is
20100729 11:45:05< zookeeper> too bad we haven't been able to do the bat/village change yet
20100729 11:45:12< Upthorn> gabba: I got a crash a few days ago when I purposefully enabled whiteboard to try it out. It was right after you went to bed after we last talked about stuff, and I stupidly didn't record where the issue was
20100729 11:45:23< Ivanovic> zookeeper: what is stopping you from adding it in the next days?
20100729 11:45:28< Upthorn> I can try it again right now though
20100729 11:45:35< Ivanovic> my plan would be a release in the usual afternoon hours on sunday
20100729 11:46:22< zookeeper> Ivanovic, the fact that it's still impossible to make the trait for the bats which would give them 50% on villages
20100729 11:46:35< Ivanovic> ah, okay
20100729 11:46:53< zookeeper> (and i don't think there were other very viable alternative balancing suggestions either..)
20100729 11:47:03< gabba> Upthorn: if it was the deque iterator stuff, it's fixed. Otherwise I'm interested in more bug reports.
20100729 11:47:40< Upthorn> I think it was an iterator issue but I'm not sure if it was deque or not
20100729 11:48:28< silene> Ivanovic: the error messages have been reenabled, so i'm fine with a release
20100729 11:48:31< Upthorn> starting debugging -- msvc tells me my build is out of date, hopefully it won't have too much to compile
20100729 11:48:53< Ivanovic> silene: are cache creation times still okay, or is the game barely usable again?
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20100729 11:49:35< silene> Ivanovic: we haven't heard anyone complains lately, so they seem to have stepped out of the dreadful state
20100729 11:49:41< timotei> morning
20100729 11:50:09< Ivanovic> silene: or zookeeper, our main wml changes tester has not used trunk much (which he already stated)
20100729 11:50:16< zookeeper> hmmh, so what exactly was done so far about the cache generation times? was any of the macro usage simplified?
20100729 11:50:38< Ivanovic> zookeeper: i guess that the code doing caching was improved
20100729 11:50:44< Ivanovic> (as in c++, not wml)
20100729 11:50:53< zookeeper> i've been using trunk a bit lately, but i've mostly just been testing a few specific things, haven't been playing any as such
20100729 11:52:19< gabba> Ivanovic: about releasing 1.9.0, the only sore point with the whiteboard is that it often crashes when WML events happen, and when people try to plan outside of their turn. On the other hand, with the commits I'm gonna do in a few minutes the wb will stay out of peoples' way if they don't wanna test it, so a release should be ok I guess.
20100729 11:52:41< Ivanovic> gabba: okay
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20100729 11:53:03< Ivanovic> please do make sure to add something to the release notes regarding how to use the whiteboard (makes it more easy for me to advertise this feature)
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20100729 11:53:56< Ivanovic> hi loonycyborg
20100729 11:54:05< loonycyborg> hello
20100729 11:54:22< gabba> Ivanovic: ok, I hadn't seen that file. Sure, I'll add some instructions in there.
20100729 11:54:24< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: from when is the svn build for windows, do you know this? (as in "when was it recreated the last time")
20100729 11:54:50< Ivanovic> (making sure that zookeeper has a recent version for testing and reporting if cache creation times are fine or not)
20100729 11:55:19< zookeeper> it's about a day old
20100729 11:55:37< zookeeper> so it should be fine. the cache generation times weren't too 
20100729 11:55:38< zookeeper> bad
20100729 11:55:48< Upthorn> Ivanovic: I'm also not entirely certain that data persistence is ready for prime-time
20100729 11:56:12< Unnheulu> Upthorn: you still have until someone uses it in a campaign :P
20100729 11:56:14< loonycyborg> svn revision is recorded in version string which is displayed in many places, and iirc zookeeper knows about that..
20100729 11:56:43< CIA-87> gabba * r44843 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 2 dirs): Whiteboard: new recruit action and mechanism to create it. The visual component i.e. the fake unit is still missing.
20100729 11:56:49< CIA-87> gabba * r44844 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (recruit.cpp recruit.hpp): Whiteboard/recruit: add fake unit to represent future recruit.
20100729 11:56:55< CIA-87> gabba * r44845 /trunk/src/whiteboard/recruit.cpp: Whiteboard/recruit: add fake unit to represent future recruit.
20100729 11:57:04< CIA-87> gabba * r44846 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (5 files): Whiteboard/recruit: corresponding code in highlight visitor.
20100729 11:57:07< CIA-87> gabba * r44847 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (mapbuilder_visitor.cpp mapbuilder_visitor.hpp): Whiteboard/recruit: corresponding code in mapbuilder visitor.
20100729 11:57:15< CIA-87> gabba * r44848 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (recruit.cpp validate_visitor.cpp validate_visitor.hpp): Whiteboard/recruit: corresponding code in validate visitor.
20100729 11:57:19< CIA-87> gabba * r44849 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (manager.cpp manager.hpp): Whiteboard: hacky but surefire fix that should get us rid of ctrl key woes
20100729 11:57:24< CIA-87> gabba * r44850 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (manager.cpp manager.hpp): Whiteboard: only display the (temporary) help message when the first planned action has been created.
20100729 11:59:07< gabba> Unnheulu, Upthorn et al: Here you go, the evil CTRL key should stop annoying you. Test it and tell me how it went next time I login.
20100729 11:59:14< gabba> now to get some sleep
20100729 11:59:21< Upthorn> ack
20100729 11:59:24< Upthorn> timing
20100729 11:59:49< Unnheulu> Erm, coding my owngame
20100729 11:59:56< Unnheulu> No time right now
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20100729 12:00:21< Ivanovic> Upthorn: you still have till sunday for improving it
20100729 12:00:22< Ivanovic> ;)
20100729 12:00:35< Ivanovic> Upthorn: in general: your feature needs some content creators first
20100729 12:00:38< Upthorn> the tutorial didn't finish loading so I could see whether that crash still exists and/or what it relates to.
20100729 12:00:55< Ivanovic> and for those it should be usable as start, right? not perfect yet but they should get an idea of what should be possible
20100729 12:03:13< Upthorn> well, it won't work at all in multiplayer yet, but yeah single player functions as intended.
20100729 12:04:13< Ivanovic> it is a development release, so users should know that things are not *final*
20100729 12:04:14< Ivanovic> ;)
20100729 12:08:36< Upthorn> ah. ok
20100729 12:08:48< timotei> shadowmaster: nice article:P
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20100729 12:54:40< AI0867> Ivanovic: cache was still slow, last time I checked
20100729 13:12:10-!- DigitalSeraphim_ is now known as DigitalSeraphim
20100729 13:28:44< timotei> morning fendrin 
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20100729 14:03:19< DigitalSeraphim> silene: Ok, thanks.  Will look for something else tonight when I get home from work.  Later all!
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20100729 15:18:11< CIA-87> silene * r44851 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Added a Lua function for modifying canvas content.
20100729 15:18:14< CIA-87> silene * r44852 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Added test for canvas drawing.
20100729 15:18:51< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: about unit_type.max_experience, it's the modified one
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20100729 15:33:06< CIA-87> timotei * r44853 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/wesnoth.vcproj: update the visual studio project
20100729 15:34:49< fendrin> timotei: Okay, talked with esr. The caching is not easy, so we will only offer manual triggered full wml* runs for now.
20100729 15:35:00< timotei> fendrin: yeah, read the logs
20100729 15:35:30< timotei> fendrin: right now striving with the damn wml grammar :D
20100729 15:35:30< fendrin> timotei: Okay, can you focus on giving the output of wml* as error markers in the editor? 
20100729 15:35:57< timotei> fendrin: well, for that esr should make them be uniform
20100729 15:36:14< fendrin> Preferable with macro expansion applied before launching the tools.
20100729 15:36:31< fendrin> timotei: Why don't you talk to him about such things?
20100729 15:39:52< fendrin> Who is the best person to talk to for time of day images?
20100729 15:41:47< zookeeper> fendrin, good question...eleazar or jetrel i'd say
20100729 15:42:38< fendrin> zookeeper: My new schedule for utbs has 24 days of time.
20100729 15:43:06< timotei> fendrin: last time he didn't respond :P
20100729 15:43:13< timotei> esr: hi. ping me when you're around
20100729 15:43:27< fendrin> timotei: Hmmm, that means it is time to threaten with fish.
20100729 15:43:35< timotei> lol
20100729 15:43:56< timotei> grr.. I hate the non-constraints of wml:|
20100729 15:44:05< esr> timotei: I'm here now.
20100729 15:44:46< timotei> esr: I' want to talk with you again about the error reporting from wmllint and wmlscope
20100729 15:45:04< timotei> esr: could you make them use a specific format? (can be chosen by you)
20100729 15:45:17< timotei> esr: also, I want to know whether the line of 'error' is a: warning or error
20100729 15:46:18< fendrin> esr, timotei: Please remember that we talked about splitting errors to stderr and warnings to stdout.
20100729 15:46:36< timotei> fendrin: umm, yeah
20100729 15:47:25< timotei> fendrin, esr should we add an extra command options that only outputs for other tools that could use it?
20100729 15:47:46< timotei> fendrin, esr: that is, the current format of output won't be mangled into a non-human-readable stuff
20100729 15:48:17< timotei> and that extra command will suppress any other human-related output
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20100729 16:26:25< eleazar_> fendrin: what about ToD images?
20100729 16:26:55< fendrin> eleazar_: I have created a new time schedule for utbs. I am in need to find an artist who does images for them.
20100729 16:27:37< eleazar_> sure i'll do that
20100729 16:28:37< eleazar_> fendrin: just send/link me the info
20100729 16:28:46< fendrin> eleazar_: Thank you very much. I need 24 images. That are 9 more than the old schedule had. But it's mostly the same image.
20100729 16:30:48< fendrin> eleazar_: Give me a few hours and I will send you a usable description of the needed images.
20100729 16:31:00< eleazar_> ok
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20100729 16:58:25< fendrin> eleazar_: Okay, I have it. Isn't that complicated any more. Only 12 needed images left.
20100729 16:59:03< fendrin> eleazar_: Do you mind if I explain what is needed here in irc?
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20100729 17:26:28< timotei> Espreon: ping :P
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20100729 17:28:18-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 131 bugs, 283 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100729 17:29:21< billynux> hi timotei 
20100729 17:29:27< timotei> hi billynux :D
20100729 17:30:05< timotei> hmm, anyone who knows unicode characters here?
20100729 17:30:56< silene> what do you need to know?
20100729 17:31:11< timotei> umm, what range of unicode chars are used/available in WML?
20100729 17:31:23< timotei> or are accepted just ascii?
20100729 17:32:41< timotei> or, a better question: do ascii and unicode tables have some codes in common?
20100729 17:33:26< silene> the whole range is available to wml; for wml tags and attributes, only plain alphabetic characters are avalaible
20100729 17:33:33-!- anonymissimus [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-095-208-088-086.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100729 17:33:40< silene> all the ascii characters have the same representation in utf8
20100729 17:34:01< Unnheulu> Heya anonymissimus 
20100729 17:34:22< timotei> silene: so tags/attributes: a-zA-Z ?
20100729 17:34:34< silene> timotei: yes, and _
20100729 17:35:39< silene> (and numbers)
20100729 17:36:02< timotei> so: a-zA-Z0-9_
20100729 17:36:03< timotei> good
20100729 17:36:15< silene> Ivanovic: i'm considering importing the lua source code into wesnoth for 1.9, so that it can be compiled with nonstandard options
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20100729 17:45:47< anonymissimus> silene: I've fixed some other issues with water units, see the patches page at gna.
20100729 17:47:26< silene> anonymissimus: thanks, will do; by the way, if you don't yet appear in the credits, don't hesitate to submit a patch for that too
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20100729 17:50:52< Crab_> silene: interesting. Can you tell more, what nonstandard options you'll use ?
20100729 17:52:23< silene> Crab_: c++ exceptions; i'm getting fed up with the if (false) trick; and i would like to call lua_call instead of lua_pcall for the inner calls (lua calling c++ calling lua)
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20100729 17:53:12< Crab_> silene: nice, it'll be easier to work with with c++ style of exception handling.
20100729 17:53:59< silene> Crab_: it's becoming more of a problem now that lua can draw custom dialog boxes because of lua callbacks and gui2 exceptions
20100729 17:55:05< timotei> silene: btw, in MP games I hate the following thing: let's say we are playing a mp scenario. I want to see the chat log back from 1 hour. If I stay too much in the chat log, I need to watch all things happenning in fast succession
20100729 17:55:13< timotei> isn't anyway of making them modal-less?
20100729 17:55:18< timotei> that is, non-blocking
20100729 17:56:10< silene> no idea, mp is the part of the code i have tried to stay away from
20100729 17:57:04< zookeeper> well that's really about modalless dialogs in general, not MP
20100729 17:58:27< silene> then mordante is the one to ask
20100729 17:59:32< timotei> Did we switch already to gui2?
20100729 18:00:14-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin]
20100729 18:00:27< fendrin> timotei: partly. 
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20100729 18:00:38< silene> 1.8 has already lots of dialogs converted to 1.8; i don't think there is anything new for 1.9 though
20100729 18:00:44< silene> gui2*
20100729 18:00:58< fendrin> timotei: recruit/recall and the map itself are still gui1. 
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20100729 18:02:13< eleazar_> fendrin: you can explain on irc if you want-- i'm not going to be around for an hour or two however.
20100729 18:03:14< timotei> fendrin: ok. I was interesting in the modal dialogs
20100729 18:03:20< timotei> s/interesting/interested
20100729 18:03:28< fendrin> modal?
20100729 18:04:18< timotei> fendrin: chat log while playing mp scenario blocks the flow of the game
20100729 18:04:31< timotei> fendrin: and I hate that. it should not block anything
20100729 18:05:25< fendrin> eleazar_: Okay, we have 2 suns, one bright and powerful, one less bright and powerful more red. The red one is bigger even being the less powerful one. 
20100729 18:06:07< fendrin> The brighter one is the one we know, it's doing the same illumination as our default wesnoth sun.
20100729 18:07:03< fendrin> The red one does paint the world in a twilight (when alone on the sky) even at midday.
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20100729 18:11:24< fendrin> The bright one is traveling from right to left, the bright one is traveling in the other direction. The red one is faster.
20100729 18:11:40< fendrin> This leads to the following times of day:
20100729 18:12:02-!- ettin [~jorda@wesnoth/developer/ettin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100729 18:12:18< fendrin> 1. First Dawn. Bright sun is raising on the right, red one on the left.
20100729 18:13:10< fendrin> 2. First Morning. Bright sun stands at morning, red sun is at midday.
20100729 18:13:51< fendrin> 3. First Afternoon. Bright sun is at afternoon, red sun is at sunlit.
20100729 18:14:44< fendrin> 4. Dusk. Red sun is not around, bright sun is at sunlit.
20100729 18:15:36< fendrin> 5. 2. Dawn. Bright sun is not around, red sun is raising. That should be very twilightish.
20100729 18:16:11< fendrin> 6. Twilight. Only the red sun is around at midday. 
20100729 18:17:43< fendrin> 7. Sunchange. bright sun is raising, red one is at sunlit. That happens both on the right side.
20100729 18:18:32< fendrin> 8.Second Morning. Bright sun is at morning, red sun not around.
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20100729 18:21:13< fendrin> 9. Second Afternoon. Bright Sun is at afternoon, red sun is at sunlit.
20100729 18:21:45< fendrin> 10.Second Twilight. Bright sun is at sunlit, red sun is at midday.
20100729 18:22:11< fendrin> 11. First night. red sun is very deep at sunlit, bright sun not around.
20100729 18:22:20< fendrin> 12. No sun is around.
20100729 18:22:36< fendrin> 12 is "Second Night".
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20100729 18:30:05< anonymissimus> in reality it's not possible to have the suns travel in opposite directions I think...
20100729 18:30:23< fendrin> anonymissimus: Why not?
20100729 18:30:44< anonymissimus> because in a double star system the two suns are near in each in the centre
20100729 18:31:05< Unnheulu> anonymissimus: if the stars orbited the planet?
20100729 18:31:19< fendrin> anonymissimus: The second sun is in fact an artificial moon, magically enlightened.
20100729 18:31:19< anonymissimus> for both their movement is caused by the movement of the planet
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20100729 18:31:48< anonymissimus> ok yes a moon is a good idea
20100729 18:32:01< Unnheulu> Or if the stars are orbiting each other
20100729 18:32:07< Unnheulu> Planet orbits one star
20100729 18:32:46< fendrin> Well, the history of wesnoth is clear in that. Magicians created an artificial sun be lifting a rock and giving it magic fire.
20100729 18:32:57< fendrin> s/be/by
20100729 18:33:06< Unnheulu> Awfully big rock...
20100729 18:33:06< anonymissimus> planets orbiting only one of the stars don't exist
20100729 18:33:16< anonymissimus> in reality (I think)
20100729 18:33:20< Unnheulu> WINR
20100729 18:33:29< anonymissimus> well
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20100729 18:34:09< alink> I suspect that anything orbiting around a planet usually turns as the planet do, but I suppose that there are exceptions like a captured moon 
20100729 18:34:36< anonymissimus> moons do not illuminate from themself
20100729 18:34:36< fendrin> alink: right.
20100729 18:34:55< Blarumyrran> Planets are silly anyway. I've always thought of the world of wesnoth as flat
20100729 18:35:23< fendrin> Blarumyrran: Right, wesnoth is flat.
20100729 18:36:04< Blarumyrran> I did say The World Of Wesnoth specifically to avoid that ugly I-word
20100729 18:36:57< timotei> hmm, wow starts to get too much meanings
20100729 18:37:09< timotei> the word 'wow'
20100729 18:37:16< timotei>  
20100729 18:37:23< Blarumyrran> Turin used it as World of Wesnoth as well someplace
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20100729 18:43:42< Blarumyrran> (it being the word "wow")
20100729 18:44:42< alink> internet seems to say that planet orbits with binary star can be complex
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20100729 18:45:09< alink> here is one with java animations : http://burtleburtle.net/bob/physics/binary.html
20100729 18:47:22< alink> zookeeper: btw the only WML macro change was the introduction of the set_no_flag key for terrains to reduce the usage of the most frequent macro {FLAG}. That gave a small boost.
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20100729 18:47:26< Unnheulu> It gave a different result on page reload...
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20100729 18:47:58< alink> zookeeper: and on the c++ side, the compression of file path in debug info helped a lot
20100729 18:48:39< Unnheulu> Giving the same result now...
20100729 18:49:16< alink> I still want to try the "disable debug info but restart and enable it if an error is reported"
20100729 18:49:51< alink> but I need to study more the preprocessor code 
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20100729 18:52:31< alink> also depending how you start wesnoth some cache rebuild operations are now skipped (title screen is much faster, --editor and --test are 2x faster, and --load is a bit faster)
20100729 18:53:19< timotei> alink: can the "-c"/"--campaign" be made faster too?
20100729 18:53:26< timotei> alink: basically is something like --test
20100729 18:53:42< alink> maybe, I didn't checked -c
20100729 18:54:13< alink> but --load can be optimize more (it was more complicated because the needed defines are in the savegame and can't be guessed)
20100729 18:54:41< zookeeper> alink, okay
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20100729 18:56:45< alink> -c is probably a but faster, since one common problem was that game loading/building a cache for title screen (useless) and then the wanted cache
20100729 18:57:00< alink> -t and -e now skip the the cache for title screen 
20100729 18:57:35< timotei> hmm, -c can fallback to title screen if the user presses cancel...
20100729 18:57:47< alink> and the new skip of terrain graphics for the title screen cache helps option still (badly) using it
20100729 18:58:03< timotei> but I guess we can create the cache only when the user presses cancel
20100729 18:58:49< alink> title screen still has a cache but possibly using the campaign define 
20100729 18:59:03< alink> only matters for some help section, though
20100729 19:07:35< alink> timotei: I can't predict the cache needed if you use -c without campaign name and difficulty
20100729 19:07:52< timotei> hmm... just the campaign list
20100729 19:09:03< alink> yes but even to just show the campaign list, I need to get a cache (even a small one), because there is GUI WML
20100729 19:09:46< alink> but the light cache (without terrain gfx) is already small enough I think.
20100729 19:10:29< alink> IIRC it build it in ~1 sec here
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20100729 19:17:32< alink> yes light cache is <1sec to build, and test cache is >6 sec
20100729 19:18:51< alink> and there is a glitch with the loading bar when using -c
20100729 19:20:23< timotei> alink: just test this:
20100729 19:21:03< timotei> -c LOW 01_The_Uprooting
20100729 19:21:17< timotei> and after selecting the difficulty, there is a glitch
20100729 19:21:27< timotei> the difficulty selection box remains drawn:(
20100729 19:21:29< timotei> and it's ugly
20100729 19:21:49< alink> <alink> and there is a glitch with the loading bar when using -c
20100729 19:22:03< timotei> oh, you were talking about that:P
20100729 19:23:14< alink> -c LOW 01_The_Uprooting doesn't work here, data directory problem, but maybe only on my hand
20100729 19:23:45 * alink never used -c before
20100729 19:23:45< timotei> umm... that's the legend of wesmere campaign, first scenario
20100729 19:23:56< timotei> oh yeah
20100729 19:24:14< timotei> sorry, when using that you need to put as the last argument the datadir - for backward compatibillity
20100729 19:24:47< alink> ok this works now, but weird syntax
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20100729 19:25:07< timotei> -c LOW 01_The_Uprooting . should work
20100729 19:25:27< timotei> -c <campaign_id> <scenario_id>
20100729 19:25:28< timotei> :P
20100729 19:25:41< alink> timotei: ok and is there a real reason why we need to put datadir at the end ?
20100729 19:25:58< timotei> well, the backward compatibillity...
20100729 19:26:08< shadowmaster> why wesnothd 1.8 is talking about ana here? :S
20100729 19:26:22< timotei> before --data-dir command, the data dir was the last argument
20100729 19:26:39< fendrin> zookeeper, shadowmaster: Do you think it is a good idea to let the utbs suns travel in opposite directions?
20100729 19:27:07< shadowmaster> fendrin: why do you feel compelled to change that?
20100729 19:27:14< shadowmaster> or clarify that for that matter
20100729 19:27:28< alink> timotei: ah ok, so --help says that we are supposed to put the datadir at the end for all options. But I think some fails if we do that
20100729 19:27:41< timotei> alink: I don't know about fail
20100729 19:27:54< timotei> alink: the reason is, there are commands like -c that have optional parameters
20100729 19:27:58< fendrin> shadowmaster: The current time schedule does not make any sense. I have brought up a new one that uses only 12 instead of 15 time of days. 
20100729 19:28:03< timotei> alink: so, the 'datadir' gets priority;)
20100729 19:28:07< shadowmaster> fendrin: ARGH.
20100729 19:28:31< shadowmaster> billynux: is it normal that wesnoth/wesnothd 1.8 talk about ana, or is my wesnoth 18 forking the wrong wesnothd? :/
20100729 19:28:42< timotei> alink: there were comments about this in the code
20100729 19:28:43< timotei> iirc
20100729 19:29:10< alink> timotei: src/wesnoth -e .    fails
20100729 19:29:14< fendrin> shadowmaster: You can read the irc logs to see what the daytimes are in particular.
20100729 19:29:19< shadowmaster> billynux: ah, hm... nevermind, mystery solved
20100729 19:29:23< shadowmaster> shadowm@bluecore:~$ ps aux | grep wesnothd
20100729 19:29:23< shadowmaster> shadowm   7019  0.0  0.0 139320  2444 ?        Ssl  13:28   0:00 /home/shadowm/src/wesnoth/wesnothd -c /home/shadowm/.wesnoth-1.8/lan_server.cfg -d -t 2 -T 5
20100729 19:29:23< billynux> shadowmaster, it's normal for the current trunk
20100729 19:29:40< shadowmaster> billynux: yeah, wesnoth 1.8 is starting ../wesnoth/wesnothd for some reason here
20100729 19:29:41< billynux> shadowmaster, however, the current ANA implementation is a bit verbose
20100729 19:29:50< billynux> ah, ok
20100729 19:29:56< timotei> alink: umm
20100729 19:30:05< timotei> yeah, sorry. wesnoth spawns for me in /
20100729 19:30:08< timotei> not in src/
20100729 19:30:49< shadowmaster> billynux: ahhhh...it's because I had configured it to start wesnothd from that path back when it was 1.7.x and lived in the dir that now I use for trunk/1.9.x
20100729 19:30:51< alink> timotei: that's not related to the "src/", just try "-e ."
20100729 19:31:03< alink> timotei: or "-e <datadir>"
20100729 19:31:09< timotei> weird
20100729 19:31:53< timotei> alink: it seems they take the next parameter as for -e (if any). so not giving priority to the data dir param
20100729 19:31:59< timotei> alink: if(arg_+1 != argc_) {
20100729 19:32:30< timotei> or not?
20100729 19:32:49< alink> timotei: yes seems so
20100729 19:33:10< timotei> alink: well, that's broken :|
20100729 19:33:25< timotei> anyway, I'm using the --data-dir stuff:P
20100729 19:33:28< timotei> it's better
20100729 19:33:40< alink> timotei: I suspect that other option have the same problem
20100729 19:33:51< timotei> alink: well... yes or no
20100729 19:34:04< alink> timotei: agreed using --data-dir is a cleaner syntax
20100729 19:34:13< timotei> alink: maybe some don't *want* to use the last arg
20100729 19:34:19< timotei> alink: don't know what to say
20100729 19:34:35< zookeeper> fendrin, well, i don't particularly mind...doesn't sound like it's gonna change the big picture
20100729 19:34:47< zookeeper> there's still gonna be a long dark and a short dark, right?
20100729 19:35:20< fendrin> zookeeper: No, There is a first day, twillight, second day, night.
20100729 19:35:42< timotei> alink: as I said, I was told I should mantain compatibillity...
20100729 19:36:08-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Quit: going to the capital]
20100729 19:36:17< alink> timotei: sry, it's not clear to me which one is the old and the new way
20100729 19:36:33< timotei> alink: the --data-dir is new way. last param for data dir is old
20100729 19:36:43< alink> timotei: ok thanks
20100729 19:36:49< timotei> alink: yw
20100729 19:37:20< timotei> alink: but I can bet there was another command telling: // we don't know if the next argument is from --campaign
20100729 19:37:20< timotei> 			// or for setting the data directory, so we assume is the latter
20100729 19:37:39< timotei> alink: I know I took the behaviour from that when I wrote the enhanced "-c" command
20100729 19:38:06< timotei> alink: yeah, right
20100729 19:38:09< timotei> alink: in "-t"
20100729 19:39:29< zookeeper> fendrin, ok...it seems it's currently 4 twilight, 6 day, 5 night. your change would make it 5 twilight, 5 day, 2 night?
20100729 19:39:55< fendrin> zookeeper: My change will make it 2 night, 6 twillight, 4 day.
20100729 19:40:39< fendrin> zookeeper: That means for the further on twillight specialized quenoth elves that they are good at half of the time and bad at the other half.
20100729 19:41:06< zookeeper> right
20100729 19:41:37< fendrin> zookeeper: We have that sequence T/D/D/T/T/T/T/D/D/T/NN
20100729 19:42:35< timotei> fendrin: hey, I have very good news
20100729 19:42:40< Ivanovic> silene: honestly, is adding the complete lua code really a good idea?
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20100729 19:43:00< Ivanovic> keeping that code in sync with upstream might be a whole lot of work
20100729 19:43:09< timotei> fendrin: I just finished the wml grammar. I need to add only the $variables thingy:D
20100729 19:43:22< zookeeper> well, i don't have other issues with that, but turning 5 night into 2 and especially getting rid of the long dark seems a bit odd as it's specifically mentioned in the campaign a few times. in your schedule there's no long stretch of "bad ToD" except for the "D/D/T/NN" part.
20100729 19:43:26< fendrin> zookeeper: I guess that is something the player can handle: A long twillight phase in the middle. And at least single twillight time of day around each block of hostile time of days.
20100729 19:43:33< fendrin> timotei: nice.
20100729 19:43:36< fendrin> :-)
20100729 19:43:36-!- alink [~alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100729 19:43:57< timotei> fendrin: basically, that is a ... first step check for wml code.
20100729 19:45:01< fendrin> zookeeper: I will make the 2 night times very hostile. This time of day is very cold and windy.
20100729 19:47:49< fendrin> zookeeper: And from now on the schedule, is based on a working theory. The player won't be too surprised that a world with 2 suns will have a short night and many mixed time of days.
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20100729 19:48:30< silene> Ivanovic: not really, lua 5.1.4 is two years already; and there is no reason to track upstream new versions; the advantage is that it will make the engine much simpler
20100729 19:48:52< Ivanovic> silene: and it is compatible regarding the license?
20100729 19:48:53< timotei> Ivanovic: 1.9.0 is about to de done on Sunday?
20100729 19:48:58< Ivanovic> timotei: i hope so
20100729 19:49:05< silene> Ivanovic: yes, it's a simple mit license
20100729 19:49:50< zookeeper> fendrin, sure, but i'd still want to be a bit careful with that. it's a bit of good/bad/good/bad/good/bad instead of the old good/good/ok/ok/bad/ok/good/good/ok/bad/bad/bad/bad/ok/ok/good (or whatever), which was a bit "slower", so to speak.
20100729 19:49:57< timotei> silene: do the variables have only current file scope?
20100729 19:50:09< timotei> silene: or they are shared among files?
20100729 19:50:13< silene> timotei: which variables?
20100729 19:50:17< zookeeper> fendrin, i'm not saying it won't work though
20100729 19:50:20< timotei> silene: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/VariablesWML
20100729 19:50:34< fendrin> zookeeper: Right, it is a step. I will try it out.
20100729 19:50:40< silene> timotei: they are shared
20100729 19:50:44< timotei> ij
20100729 19:50:45< timotei> ok*
20100729 19:50:48< zookeeper> fendrin, sure
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20100729 19:53:19< Ivanovic> so one dep could be removed and our build systems got one thing less to find
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20100729 19:57:56< eleazar_> fendrin: zookeeper so is there a moon?
20100729 19:58:00< fendrin> zookeeper: I still don't know about the different directions of the suns. It doesn't make a gameplay difference but could be nice and confusing as well.
20100729 19:58:51< fendrin> eleazar_: yes, there is. It is visible like moon in the current default schedule. The moon and the bright sun exactly follow the default schedule.
20100729 19:59:06< fendrin> eleazar_: Since they are still the same objects after the fall.
20100729 20:00:34< eleazar_> and what about "sunchange"?
20100729 20:00:36< fendrin> eleazar_: The only question still left is: Do the suns rotate in opposition to each other. Or do they travel in the same direction. The first solution would be cool, the second one maybe less confusing. No gameplay difference.
20100729 20:00:54< eleazar_> what TOD does that correspond to?
20100729 20:01:30< fendrin> eleazar_: Sunchange is the time of day where both suns are echanged during the same time. While the first is raising the second is litting.
20100729 20:01:35< zookeeper> i don't have much of a rationale, but rotating in the same direction sounds nicer
20100729 20:02:08< fendrin> eleazar_: Okay, so both suns start at the first dawn from right and travel to left.
20100729 20:02:13< eleazar_> fendrin: that's not what i asked.  what Tod does it correspond to?
20100729 20:02:25< eleazar_> # 7 sunchange
20100729 20:02:38< fendrin> eleazar_: It's more or less like Dawn, Dusk, and Twillight.
20100729 20:02:43< eleazar_> k
20100729 20:03:21< eleazar_> maybe this is too complicated,
20100729 20:03:34< eleazar_> but i'd expect more than 3 "levels of light"
20100729 20:03:40< eleazar_> from this complex arraingment
20100729 20:04:39< fendrin> eleazar_: Well, I do handle them slightly different. 
20100729 20:04:56< fendrin> eleazar_: Their is a different map lightning for nearly all times of the day.
20100729 20:05:17< eleazar_> i meant for lawful/chaotic stuff
20100729 20:05:34< eleazar_> i.e. chaotic might hate first morning more than second morning
20100729 20:05:47< fendrin> eleazar_: And I can adjust the bonus/malus of all lawful/chaotic/liminal extra. So there are no problems.
20100729 20:06:27< fendrin> eleazar_: I start with a simple setting and go for balancing more complicated ones if that works.
20100729 20:06:31< eleazar_> if the two mornings are different they should *look* different
20100729 20:06:44< fendrin> eleazar_: Sure, that will be the case.
20100729 20:07:09< eleazar_> so i'd rather it was figured out before i did art that may just need to be redone
20100729 20:08:29< fendrin> eleazar_: You can lit every time of day differently, that is why I have posted the exact position of the suns earlier for each time. But take into account that I have descripted the cycle with the red sun running in wrong direction if we choose to do not so.
20100729 20:08:55< fendrin> eleazar_: The art will be final. I only need to adjust the values.
20100729 20:09:27< eleazar_> you don't understand
20100729 20:10:07< fendrin> eleazar_: sure?
20100729 20:10:11< eleazar_> if "first morning" for example is supposed to be brighter, and thus dismay chaotic more than "second morning"
20100729 20:10:37< eleazar_> then the ToD image that i'm making should make that obvious
20100729 20:10:50< fendrin> eleazar_: Sure, you can get the information from it being brighter by your imagination of the sun positions I posted earlier, and those will not change.
20100729 20:10:50< eleazar_> these need to convey information
20100729 20:11:19< fendrin> eleazar_: I can go in more detail, no problem.
20100729 20:11:32< eleazar_> you said you hadn't decided how the lawful bonus/malus ect would be
20100729 20:12:07< fendrin> eleazar_: I have done it on a very simple base already. It will be more complicated later on. But that should not be a problem for the art.
20100729 20:12:08< eleazar_> "And I can adjust the bonus/malus of all lawful/chaotic/liminal extra. So there are no problems.
20100729 20:12:08< eleazar_> [1:06pm] fendrin: eleazar_: I start with a simple setting and go for balancing more complicated ones if that works."
20100729 20:13:20< fendrin> eleazar_: "First Dawn": Both suns raise to the right. (Same directed cycle) That means that will be a sun raise that is slightly more red because we have that second red sone raising extra compared to the normal slot.
20100729 20:14:09< fendrin> eleazar_: The second dawn only features the raise the red sun. So it will be darker.
20100729 20:14:11< eleazar_> i can figure out what it should look like from the info youve given me, if you also decide what the gameplay effects are
20100729 20:14:43< eleazar_> gameplay effects need to correspond to the TOD image
20100729 20:15:14< eleazar_> i like UtBS
20100729 20:15:20< fendrin> eleazar_: Okay, "First Dawn" is mostly like the normal dawn. The extra weaker red sun raising will not make much a difference to only the bright one raising.
20100729 20:15:42< fendrin> eleazar_: First morning will be the hottest and brightest time of day.
20100729 20:16:03< anonymissimus> fendrin: from the player point of view I liked the long phases of ToD
20100729 20:16:13< fendrin> eleazar_: We have there the bright sun at morning and the red at midday. That is the maximum possible heat/light combination.
20100729 20:16:29< anonymissimus> in the harsh ssnds scenario you could move during the long night from oasis to oasis
20100729 20:17:14< anonymissimus> at the time when the player was dorced to do that, but since healers can heal the heat damage it's no longer such a nice scenario
20100729 20:17:32< fendrin> eleazar_: Meaning the biggest day malus for liminal/chaotic and the best bonus for lawful. But also that time of day is very hot and units will get fire damage if they are in the open desert.
20100729 20:18:43< fendrin> eleazar_: Can you go with such informations or do you need the coded files?
20100729 20:18:54< eleazar_> isn't it in trunk?
20100729 20:20:08< fendrin> eleazar_: No, not yet.
20100729 20:20:50< fendrin> eleazar_: It isn't working well without the images so I didn't commit it.
20100729 20:22:01< CIA-87> fendrin * r44856 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (scenarios/03_Stirring_in_the_Night.cfg utils/time.cfg): New time schedule for utbs.
20100729 20:22:19< fendrin> eleazar_: ^ still not finished.
20100729 20:23:48< eleazar_> what i'd like is a numerical scale  For instance for the default ToD starting with "dawn" the sequence would be 2,3,3,2,1,1  --- 3= more light, 1= night.
20100729 20:24:15< eleazar_> what i'm gathering is you're using more than 3 levels of light for lawful/chaotic bonuses
20100729 20:24:27< fendrin> eleazar_: I will define the red green blue offsets for the map, can you work with them?
20100729 20:24:30< eleazar_> or at least plant to
20100729 20:26:35< eleazar_> The editor doesn't do ToD shifts in my current compile
20100729 20:26:43< eleazar_> which i currently cant' update
20100729 20:27:29< fendrin> eleazar_: What about using the first scenario? It shows dessert like the time of day images do now.
20100729 20:28:02< eleazar_> i'm not sure what you mean by "work with them"
20100729 20:28:51< eleazar_> the RGB values are something i can read, but that's not what i'm asking for in a "numerical scale"
20100729 20:29:35< fendrin> eleazar_: But they are numerical, and most precise since the show you how the time of day interacts with the map in values and visual. 
20100729 20:29:54< eleazar_> i want gameplay information
20100729 20:30:36< fendrin> eleazar_: You can have bonus values but they won't be that precise. 
20100729 20:30:42< eleazar_> how can i make this more plain?
20100729 20:31:38< fendrin> I mean not as precise than the color values.
20100729 20:33:18< fendrin> eleazar_: Remember that I can't express the difference of dusk/dawn much in chaotic/lawful values but you have a quite different illumination between this both times.
20100729 20:33:38< fendrin> dawn= red -20 green -20
20100729 20:34:04< fendrin> and dusk= green -20 blue -20
20100729 20:34:11< fendrin> on the default time schedule.
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20100729 20:37:55< eleazar_> talk to me when you can give me the info i'm asking for.  This conversion unfortunately is going around in circles.
20100729 20:39:46< eleazar_> Ivanovic: i see you are looking at a release soon
20100729 20:40:08< eleazar_> Ivanovic: i have a couple terrain things that are probably relevant
20100729 20:40:37< eleazar_> currently most of the animated water is disabled
20100729 20:41:37< fendrin> eleazar_: Well, only looking at the game values won't get you the illumination levels right. That is already true for core and default schedule. So I don't see how you will work. Look at the default schedule images, dusk and dawn aren't lit there equally either. Do you really want to change how those images are created for UTBS only?
20100729 20:41:57< fendrin> eleazar_: Or do you want to redo all time of day images by your new standards?
20100729 20:43:13< eleazar_> fendrin: i'm good at what i do.  please trust me that i know best what info i need to make good, useful game graphics.  You don't need to manage me.
20100729 20:45:13< eleazar_> and no i have no plant for changing the default schedual, nor is there any reason i should
20100729 20:47:22< fendrin> eleazar_: Please be more patient with me. 
20100729 20:47:46< fendrin> eleazar_: And just explain how you work, just to give me an idea what exact information you need.
20100729 20:47:52-!- prkc [~negusnyul@145.236.180.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100729 20:47:52< eleazar_> i've spent half an hour trying to get you to answer a relatively simple question
20100729 20:48:28< eleazar_> "eleazar_: what i'd like is a numerical scale  For instance for the default ToD starting with "dawn" the sequence would be 2,3,3,2,1,1  --- 3= more light, 1= night.
20100729 20:48:29< eleazar_> [1:24pm] eleazar_: what i'm gathering is you're using more than 3 levels of light for lawful/chaotic bonuses"
20100729 20:50:10< fendrin> eleazar_: So you need only the right lawful_bonus= liminate_bonus= values to determine the lightening? Or am I still wrong?
20100729 20:50:35< eleazar_> yes that's what i want to know
20100729 20:51:04< fendrin> The more light thing won't work because there are 2 suns that shine in different colors at different time of day. I don't see how I can do that easier than defining the map color offset correctly.
20100729 20:51:17< fendrin> That setup isn't that simple any more, as you already mentioned.
20100729 20:52:02< eleazar_> stop guessing how i work
20100729 20:52:24< eleazar_> nevermind
20100729 20:52:28< eleazar_> i'm done with this
20100729 20:52:36< eleazar_> sorry
20100729 20:52:53< fendrin> Then please explain it. I can't guess what you need without knowing how you work. There is nothing else I want to know. Please don't be offended. 
20100729 20:53:26< eleazar_> i've wasted too much time here already
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20100729 20:58:20< gabba> bonjour
20100729 20:58:39< timotei> hi gabba 
20100729 20:58:45< gabba> hi timotei
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20100729 21:06:58< timotei> ops, getting crashes in wesnoth:(
20100729 21:07:39< timotei> alink: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/gTrUD7ZG
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20100729 21:09:25< alink> timotei: ok, but is it related to one of my commits? Used command-line option maybe ?
20100729 21:09:46< timotei> no, I just pressed I'm ready  to a local game
20100729 21:10:05< timotei> I remember seeing something with builder in your commits
20100729 21:10:07< timotei> afair
20100729 21:10:36< alink> terrain builder, not team_builder
20100729 21:11:08< CIA-87> billynux * r44857 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Initial implementation of the client side of the new network API. Also added a method to get the ip address of the server in ANA's client.
20100729 21:11:17< alink> for team_builder, I would direct you to YogiHH but he's inactive
20100729 21:11:25< timotei> oh
20100729 21:11:33< timotei> some days back I didn't had that
20100729 21:11:40< timotei> brb I'm looking for latest commits
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20100729 21:13:52< timotei> gabba: whiteboard on CTRL+R is intended?
20100729 21:14:05< timotei> gabba: I'm getting some errors:P
20100729 21:14:47< gabba> ahh, damn, forgot that ctrl+r is for recruit...
20100729 21:14:53< timotei> :P
20100729 21:15:04< timotei> do you need the stacktrace?
20100729 21:15:49< gabba> timotei: hmm not yet, I'm gonna test myself. You had that with a trunk update from today I suppose?
20100729 21:15:55< alink> gabba: maybe consider using another key than control?
20100729 21:15:57< timotei> latest trunk
20100729 21:16:00< timotei> gabba: yeah
20100729 21:16:03< timotei> gabba: make it just :wb
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20100729 21:16:29< alink> IIRC arrows keys already watch the pressed state (but in an ugly way)
20100729 21:18:11< gabba> alink: shift already accelerates animations, ctrl and alt are used in some shortcuts. No other key are really handy or logical for my purpose. If we're to have a toggle key, I think some shortcuts will have to change...
20100729 21:18:34< timotei> alink: wow, 1 minute loading for: ./wesnoth -t and end up with error :P
20100729 21:18:41< gabba> I could move to alt which has less shortcuts linked to it, maybe they don't conflict like ctrl+r
20100729 21:19:02< timotei> and again, that damn unit.cpp
20100729 21:19:14< timotei> alink: it's the same stacktrace :(
20100729 21:19:23< gabba> timotei: no, I won't make it "just wb"
20100729 21:19:45< timotei> gabba: :D
20100729 21:19:57< alink> gabba: mmh number keys also work by keeping then pressed, and it's somehow related to wb, since it's used to plan several turns ahead 
20100729 21:20:10< timotei> gabba: well, at least it doesn't trigger on CTRL+SPACE, which is good :D
20100729 21:20:13< alink> s/then/them
20100729 21:20:24< timotei> silene: any clue on this: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/gTrUD7ZG ?
20100729 21:20:32< timotei> silene: I'm using: ./wesnoth -t
20100729 21:21:05< gabba> alink: number keys are already in use (show movement range for X turns)
20100729 21:21:25< silene> timotei: no, and i'm not even sure this code changed lately
20100729 21:21:47< timotei> silene: I got that creating a local multiplayer game too
20100729 21:21:54< timotei> silene: I got that when 'initializing teams'
20100729 21:22:10< gabba> besides I need a large, easily accessible key, that people can use a lot without even looking at the keyboard, and without hitting a neighbouring key by mistake. Hence, shift or ctrl.
20100729 21:22:19< timotei> silene: do you get that if you run ./wesnoth -t?
20100729 21:22:25< alink> gabba: yes I know, all of those are just example of pressed keys modulating the UI, but different from ctrl and shift, which are already used for hootkey
20100729 21:22:28< timotei> Upth: around?:)
20100729 21:22:29< silene> timotei: no, it works fine for me
20100729 21:22:38< Upth> timotei: yeah
20100729 21:22:38< alink> gabba: ah ok, you wanted a big key
20100729 21:22:48< timotei> Upth: does it work: ./wesnoth.exe -t for you?
20100729 21:22:52< timotei> Upth: with current trunk?
20100729 21:23:39< gabba> alink: is there a way to ask SDL "is any other key than LCTRL/RCTRL pressed" ?
20100729 21:24:23< alink> gabba: I am not sure, checking
20100729 21:26:07< silene> gabba: note that nobody is able to press two keys at the exact same time; so you will still get ctrl alone for some time
20100729 21:26:36< gabba> silene: yes, I realized that
20100729 21:26:57< alink> gabba:  SDL_GetKeyState seems to return a array, and you can just scan if all entries are ==0 in it
20100729 21:27:17< gabba> but I can probably disable the WB at the last minute when the second key is pressed...
20100729 21:28:08< gabba> alink: thanks, I'll take a look. It does sound prohibitively expensive though, since I'll probably end up doing it every redraw
20100729 21:28:41< gabba> maybe I can somehow list all the hotkeys with a ctrl modifier and check only for those
20100729 21:28:52< Upth> timotei: I had to modify the test scenario to get it to work
20100729 21:29:01< alink> depends the size of the array, and the cost of the SDL call (probably small)
20100729 21:30:28< Upth> timotei: on line 91 I turned [trait] into [object], and on 92 I turned "id=hairdo" to "silent=yes" then on 97 [/trait] becomes [/object]
20100729 21:30:34< Upth> then it will run.
20100729 21:30:38< gabba> I imagine the array contains all possible keys, so fairly large, but I'm gonna look instead of keep guessing
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20100729 21:32:18< Upth> or at least, back when I tried the -t option that was sufficient
20100729 21:32:24< timotei> oh
20100729 21:32:33< Upth> timotei: btw this is data\scenario-test.cfg
20100729 21:32:41< timotei> don't think that's really the problem. I get that on local games too:-/
20100729 21:32:41< alink> I seems to have 323 here (for the array size)
20100729 21:32:44 * Upth tries -t again on current truck
20100729 21:32:48< Upth> *trunk
20100729 21:32:56< alink> gabba: ^323
20100729 21:33:11-!- Unnheulu [~ieuan@cpc5-pnth2-0-0-cust800.5-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20100729 21:33:15< gabba> alink: thanks
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20100729 21:40:45< Upth> timotei: just tested and that change still works
20100729 21:40:57< Upth> I think that actually there's an error in the way [trait] is being parsed
20100729 21:41:00< Upth> somehow
20100729 21:41:33< gabba> Upth, timotei: does it crash in events::mouse_handler::mouse_motion for you?
20100729 21:41:49< timotei> gabba: umm, what?
20100729 21:42:01< timotei> yeah
20100729 21:42:05< timotei> gabba: 
20100729 21:42:05< timotei> <Upth> timotei: yeah
20100729 21:42:05< timotei> <timotei> Upth: does it work: ./wesnoth.exe -t for you?
20100729 21:42:05< timotei> <timotei> Upth: with current trunk?
20100729 21:42:06< timotei> damnt
20100729 21:42:11< timotei> gabba: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/budNJqCY
20100729 21:42:18< timotei> this is the wb error I got when CTRL+R
20100729 21:42:21< timotei> and hovering
20100729 21:42:52< Upth> I haven't had that happen yet.
20100729 21:43:28< gabba> timotei: your stack trace doesn't show what the specific error is (i.e. segmentation fault, triggered assert...)
20100729 21:43:38< timotei> oh..
20100729 21:43:41< timotei> wait, I try again:D
20100729 21:43:43< Upth> the wb-related error I've been getting happens during highlight_visitor::unhighlight() at the end of the turn
20100729 21:44:07< Upth> in owner_unit_->set_standing(true); a failed assert happens during vector iteration
20100729 21:44:45< gabba> Upth: ok, a stack trace would be useful for that so I can see if it's related to the new recruit functionality
20100729 21:45:02< Upth> yeah, I'll have that in a minute
20100729 21:45:14< Upth> also I tested this just before all the commits you made last night
20100729 21:45:24< Upth> though I sorta doubt those commits fixed it
20100729 21:45:27< gabba> Sorry guys for all the bugs, I'm rearranging some of the guts of wesnoth as I go and it's hard getting it perfect the first time
20100729 21:45:31< CIA-87> fendrin * r44858 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Added stubs for utbs new time of day images.
20100729 21:45:54< Upth> yeah I understand
20100729 21:46:15< timotei> gabba: there is no problem for me :)
20100729 21:46:17< Upth> and I'm sure it doesn't help that you've got no windows machine to test on
20100729 21:46:20< timotei> gabba: me just reports;P
20100729 21:46:50< timotei> gtw, gabba: it recruits where my mouse is now :D
20100729 21:46:57< timotei> gabba: not in any hexes near castle
20100729 21:47:14< Upth> oh man, that is the best bug.
20100729 21:47:23< timotei> gabba: yeah, a windows machine could help:P
20100729 21:47:31< gabba> Upth: I have a windows machine, but installing VS + all necessary library would eat up a day (or two), and we're 1 1/2 week away from GSoC's end
20100729 21:47:31< timotei> visual studio project is all set up:D
20100729 21:47:39< Upth> yeah
20100729 21:47:50< Upth> oh man, I am so far behind
20100729 21:47:55< timotei> gabba: Unhandled exception at 0x01198e9c in wesnoth.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x0000005c.
20100729 21:48:09< Upth> I'll have to work past SoC end to make mp work
20100729 21:48:25< gabba> Upth: me too, coincidentally 
20100729 21:48:32< timotei> I'll still work on the plugin, cause it looks cool:D
20100729 21:48:37< timotei> s/work/working
20100729 21:49:12< gabba> timotei: ha ha, the "recruit everywhere" is logical, but I didn't expect that one :P
20100729 21:49:37< timotei> gabba: ^ the upper error I got when hovering
20100729 21:49:51< gabba> yup, thanks
20100729 21:49:56< timotei> gabba: I can bet it will take up to maxium 3 hours to install vs + libs;)
20100729 21:50:04< timotei> gabba: Crab_ did a beautiful job gathering all the libs :)
20100729 21:50:47< CIA-87> fendrin * r44859 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/: Directory for the new quenoth elves.
20100729 21:51:02< Upth> well he'll also need to install the windows sdk most likely
20100729 21:51:08< timotei> windows sdk?
20100729 21:51:10< timotei> for whaT?:D
20100729 21:51:15< timotei> oh, debugging. right
20100729 21:51:34< Crab_> timotei: not all, you have to download datetime lib separately, since it was added after the libs package was done
20100729 21:51:54< timotei> Crab_: it helps if I give you the updated package?:P
20100729 21:52:05< Crab_> timotei: no, it's just me being a bit lazier than necessary )
20100729 21:52:53< timotei> Crab_: btw, I've taken a bit different way: using the archive you provided, added all the libs-> libs directory, .h->include, and dll->dll. And hooked that up in the VC++ Directories of the current projectfiles/VC9/ solution :D
20100729 21:52:55< Crab_> timotei: it's quite easy to fix - just recompile boost once more, and put a few more libs into the package, then winscp it
20100729 21:53:13< Crab_> timotei: yes, that's possible, too )
20100729 21:53:23< Crab_> Upth: no, `msvc express edition without the sdk` worked for me, too
20100729 21:53:37< timotei> I don't like the mess cmake generates
20100729 21:53:41< Upth> Well, ok then.
20100729 21:54:09< Upth> I guess we aren't using winapi for the gui so there wouldn't be includes from that
20100729 21:54:10< alink> billynux: running local MP game, a bit of spam of "DEBUG: Sending to everybody. Zipped"
20100729 21:54:42< CIA-87> eleazar * r44860 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): improved minimap appearance of chasm, wall and grass terrains.
20100729 21:54:43< Crab_> Upth: silene has committed the mp sync framework, btw - were you able to take a look at it yet ?
20100729 21:55:12< timotei> hahah
20100729 21:55:13< timotei> =))
20100729 21:55:18< billynux> alink, true, it's supposed to be in testing mode
20100729 21:55:24< timotei> 280 megs turned into 11.0 megs by 7zip
20100729 21:55:31< timotei> with ultra compressing
20100729 21:55:37< billynux> alink, but I'm guessing I should remove the status messages anyway... do you agree?
20100729 21:55:54< alink> billynux: ok, just wanted to be sure that it was not forgotten debug code
20100729 21:55:55< Upth> Crab_: I haven't. I'm still not done with the refactoring
20100729 21:56:23< alink> billynux: maybe ise log-domains to show that debug logs
20100729 21:56:28< alink> s/ise/use
20100729 21:56:41< Crab_> Upth: when do you expect to have a 'stable enough' situation to allow you to commit things after the refactoring ?
20100729 21:56:53< Upth> I'm really sorry for my slow pace right now. I'm at the point where I'm so frustrated with myself for not getting the work done that it is distracting me from getting work done.
20100729 21:57:15< timotei> gabba: so, 11MB+aprox 100 break you from running the windows :P
20100729 21:57:30< gabba> Upth, timotei, everybody: for the next WB bug you stumble upon, I'd appreciate if you could run wesnoth with "--log-info=whiteboard" or even "--log-debug=whiteboard" and send me the log/console output. Maybe redirect the console output to a file, since the console is extra-slow under windows.
20100729 21:57:36< Crab_> Upth: the slow pace is not that a big problem, there's only 1 problem left that we need to solve, (mp persistence, that is). rest are small details
20100729 21:57:49< timotei> gabba: I will do it now
20100729 21:58:01< Crab_> Upth: but I'd really like to help, to make sure you don't get stuck on smth
20100729 21:58:07< gabba> timotei: not only that, I'd have to reboot regularly and compile under two OS's... no thanks
20100729 21:58:14< timotei> ok:P
20100729 21:58:28< CIA-87> fendrin * r44861 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/ (16 files): Unit descriptions for the quenoth elves.
20100729 21:58:47< Upth> so, I just tried to reproduce the bug to get a stack trace, and it didn't happen
20100729 21:58:57< Upth> I think I might have actually turned off the whiteboard
20100729 21:59:02< Upth> before ending turn
20100729 21:59:44< Crab_> Upth: so, if that might help, I'd suggest that you finish the refactoring, and I take a look at the MP framework and try to make a prototype of mp persistence that works.
20100729 22:00:03< billynux> alink, have you had any network trouble running it?
20100729 22:00:05< Upth> I should actually be done with refactoring today.
20100729 22:00:06< Crab_> Upth: and then, after you finish the refactoring, you ping me and we take a look at the mp persistence together
20100729 22:00:24< Crab_> Upth: that's good to know )
20100729 22:00:25-!- Ken_Oh [~briang@static-71-178-174-220.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100729 22:00:30< Upth> gabba: my reported bug is no longer occuring.
20100729 22:00:47< alink> billynux: no, I just started a local game, didn't see any bugs
20100729 22:01:01< timotei> gabba, Upth yeah, somehow it doesn't happen all time
20100729 22:01:02< billynux> good, next commit is the removal of these tedious output messages
20100729 22:01:05< CIA-87> mordante * r44862 /trunk/src/ana/api/stats.hpp: Initialize all members.
20100729 22:01:16< CIA-87> mordante * r44863 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Initialize all members.
20100729 22:01:21< CIA-87> mordante * r44864 /trunk/src/whiteboard/highlight_visitor.cpp: Initialize all members.
20100729 22:01:24< timotei> hehe
20100729 22:01:27< billynux> the 'other' next commit maybe :)
20100729 22:01:28< timotei> mordante's coming in
20100729 22:01:29< timotei> :))
20100729 22:01:33< timotei> I can bet
20100729 22:01:45< CIA-87> billynux * r44865 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Removed all debug messages from the ANA implementation of the current network API.
20100729 22:02:55< Crab_> Upth: see r44709, r44708, r44707, r44702, r44699, r44698, r44697, r44696, r44681
20100729 22:03:23< Crab_> those are the commits related to mp sync framework
20100729 22:03:34< CIA-87> billynux * r44866 /trunk/src/ (network_ana.cpp network_manager_ana.cpp): Fix compilation issues by commenting out unused parameters.
20100729 22:04:25< alink> billynux: thanks, btw does ana has its own log-domain ?
20100729 22:04:49< billynux> alink, no
20100729 22:04:49< timotei> gabba: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/WfNfMPV4
20100729 22:05:06< billynux> alink, it has its own network statistics logger, but I'm guessing that wasn't your question
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20100729 22:06:03< alink> billynux: no, but I see a logdomain "network", maybe you may use that
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20100729 22:06:43< CIA-87> ai0867 * r44867 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: Remove Ernst Segers from credits at his request
20100729 22:06:53 * alink is refering to the list given by --logdomains
20100729 22:07:45< billynux> alink, yes, it's old code, I know I could have used it, just went with cout for local debug, although maybe I should log some important stuff to that domain
20100729 22:08:08< billynux> alink, but I'm currently working on the new implementation (which is meant to replace the current :) )
20100729 22:08:55< alink> billynux: well, one feature of log domain is that you can toggle on/off the output (even from in-game) or tuning the logging level
20100729 22:09:58< alink> so you can freely spam with -log-debug:ana or network
20100729 22:10:02< billynux> alink, good, I assumed it had pretty features, but never took the time to research them. I will use it in the this new implementation
20100729 22:10:20< billynux> s/the this/this/
20100729 22:10:37< gabba> timotei: thanks. You did two recruits IIUC?
20100729 22:10:45< timotei> yes :D
20100729 22:12:44< timotei> gabba: although me personally don't see any good information there.
20100729 22:12:54< timotei> gabba: you should ... exceed the use of debug logdomain:P
20100729 22:13:57< timotei> gabba: s/exceed/spam :P
20100729 22:21:58< CIA-87> alink * r44868 /trunk/data/ (_main.cfg core/_main.cfg): 
20100729 22:21:58< CIA-87> Disable terrain-graphics when NO_TERRAIN_GFX is defined.
20100729 22:21:58< CIA-87> Activated by TITLE_SCREEN (auto defined when starting title screen)
20100729 22:21:58< CIA-87> and now also by NO_GUI.
20100729 22:22:11< alink> silene ^followed your suggestion
20100729 22:23:07< alink> elias, timotei: to speed up cache build, you may now use  NO_GUI (which is a more intuitive name)
20100729 22:23:33< timotei> um...
20100729 22:23:56< timotei> that means I can add the define, and the GUI won't get cached?
20100729 22:24:20< alink> for the moment it only skip terrain graphics but yes
20100729 22:24:39< timotei> aha
20100729 22:24:39< timotei> ok
20100729 22:24:41< timotei> thanks
20100729 22:24:43< alink> I plan to also use it when --nogui is used, but didn't looked the code yet
20100729 22:25:40< alink> the idea of using NO_GUI, is that get a define useful for all automated tools
20100729 22:26:30< alink> s/that/to
20100729 22:26:38< elias> is there a list of things NO_GUI disables?
20100729 22:27:00< alink> yes: NO_TERRAIN_GFX :-)
20100729 22:27:00< elias> e.g. i still need some parts of terrain info in wmlunits (just not the terrain graphics)
20100729 22:27:05< elias> ah, ok :)
20100729 22:27:44< alink> I assume we could skip unit animations too (heavy to parse) but there is  no easy way to do that with define
20100729 22:28:03< alink> also any WML manipulating them risk to complains
20100729 22:29:02< CIA-87> upthorn * r44869 /trunk/src/ (4 files): Refactored persist_context and persist_manager as per crab_'s request... I think.
20100729 22:29:18< alink> maybe later if/when there a lot of GUI2 WML
20100729 22:29:29< Upth> I should probably separate persist_file_context into separate .hpp and .cpp files, but
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20100729 22:29:52< alink> help and about are not small too, but not sure if significant
20100729 22:30:02< Crab_> Upth: I'll take a look. well, you can separate, if you have time, but it can be done later, too. not a big issue )
20100729 22:30:17< Upth> Crab_: if you could look that over and ver-- yeah, my thoughts exactly.
20100729 22:40:31< alink> http://collectd.wesnoth.org/index.cgi?hostname=wesnoth.wesnoth.org&plugin=cpu&timespan=2678400&action=show_selection&ok_button=OK
20100729 22:40:48< alink> I see a cpu-system increase 2 weeks ago ^
20100729 22:41:22< alink> anything changed  2 weeks ago ?
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20100729 22:45:48< silene> Ivanovic: i won't be committing the lua import for 1.9.0; there is a strange glitch (compiler bug?) that appeared once i switched to g++ and it may take some time for me to track it
20100729 22:47:51< Crab_> Upth: ok, it looks good. I suggest the following:
20100729 22:48:37< Crab_> Upth: 1) forget about transaction support, as of now (let the api stay, that support can be added later)
20100729 22:49:43< Upth> Ok.
20100729 22:50:09< Crab_> Upth: 2) add use of SP persistence to test scenario (data/scenario-test.cfg ) - it will allow you to announce the new SP features at forums as soon as 1.9.0 is released.
20100729 22:50:42< Crab_> you'd be able to say 'open test scenario and do X,Y, and Z to see how it works'
20100729 22:50:57< Upth> Okay, that should be easy enough.
20100729 22:51:19< Crab_> yes. and that is important - since there's many SP content out here, and many people will be delighted to have support for such a thing.
20100729 22:52:01< Crab_> a good test of features will be something which allows the user to 'interact' with the persistence api.
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20100729 22:52:17< Crab_> e.g., allow a user to store a message for 'himself' , something like that
20100729 22:52:21< boucman> hey all
20100729 22:52:24< Crab_> hi, boucman
20100729 22:52:40< Upth> That's a good idea.
20100729 22:53:05< Crab_> Upth: 3) and, then, as soon as 1.9.0 is released, actually announce at the forums (WML workshop is the best one for that, IMO)
20100729 22:53:26< Upth> Okay, I can do that.
20100729 22:54:01< boucman> gabba: so, how is it going...
20100729 22:54:16< gabba> hi boucman
20100729 22:54:17< Crab_> Upth: good. and then try to tackle the MP )
20100729 22:54:32< boucman> I saw you added recruit planning...
20100729 22:55:01< gabba> boucman: ctrl key keeps being problematic (now conflicts with ctrl+r for recruit, which causes crashes)
20100729 22:55:12< boucman> hmm
20100729 22:55:20< Crab_> Upth: note that all we have to do is to find a specific set of circumstances where MP persistence api works as intended - WML writers are used to limitations and workarounds, so even a simplest possible implementation will be enough for 95% of use cases.
20100729 22:55:41< boucman> gabba: can you use any key instead of ctrl, or does it have to be one of the special ones (ctrl,alt, shift...)
20100729 22:56:20< silene> Upth, Crab_: note that, with 1.9, users will already be able to do MP persistence, assuming SP persistence works
20100729 22:56:32< gabba> boucman: ^^^.... "besides I need a large, easily accessible key, that people can use a lot without even looking at the keyboard, and without hitting a neighbouring key by mistake. Hence, shift or ctrl."
20100729 22:56:45< Crab_> silene: how ? can you specify a recipe ?
20100729 22:56:51< Upth> silene: it will OoS though
20100729 22:57:32< silene> Crab_: wesnoth.synchronize_choice
20100729 22:57:33< timotei> gabba, boucman: the WINDOWS key :D
20100729 22:57:40< silene> Upth: why should it?
20100729 22:57:55< boucman> timotei: convention is to leave it to the window manager...
20100729 22:58:03< CIA-87> fendrin * r44870 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/ (8 files): Worked on the quenoth elves.
20100729 22:58:06< Upth> when a persistence event triggers, each machine will read from its own persistence data
20100729 22:58:06< gabba> timotei: not a bad idea, except for MacOSX I guess :P
20100729 22:58:18< gabba> unless it has a "Super" key?
20100729 22:58:30< timotei> gabba: well... they must have the same key code..
20100729 22:58:30< boucman> gabba: i'd disagree with that statement... with an hour of practice or so any key could do the trick
20100729 22:58:33< boucman> and if I had to choose, I'd go for the "space" key :P
20100729 22:58:43< silene> Upth: that's because you don't know what the mp synchronization framework does
20100729 22:59:01< timotei> gabba windows=super=(ask crimson_penguin)
20100729 22:59:01< boucman> easy access, all keyboard have it, unused shortcut :P
20100729 22:59:01< Upth> silene: that's true, I haven't had a chance to look at it, though
20100729 22:59:01< gabba> boucman: almost every key is already in use, space included
20100729 22:59:01< Upth> err, that "though" should be "yet"
20100729 22:59:02< timotei> gabba: tilda?
20100729 22:59:11< boucman> oh ?
20100729 22:59:22< CIA-87> eleazar * r44871 /trunk/ (19 files in 2 dirs): preliminary revisions to 'stone path' which was originally supposed to be an overgrown foresty path, and now clearly is.
20100729 22:59:35< Espreon> timotei: Yes?
20100729 22:59:43< boucman> gabba: in that case your only choice is to use the shortcut system to let the user choose...
20100729 22:59:49< timotei> Espreon: wanted to bother you with some unicode stuff :D
20100729 22:59:51< boucman> is the normal enter key used too ?
20100729 23:00:00< timotei> Espreon: still, I don't think I'll need anymore :P
20100729 23:00:18-!- EdB [~edb@79.89.103.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100729 23:00:29< gabba> boucman: dunno about the enter key, but it's on the wrong side of the keyboard wrt the mouse
20100729 23:00:51< Espreon> timotei: Oh?
20100729 23:01:05< gabba> the tilde key could work as timotei said, but I don't think any letter would honestly
20100729 23:01:52< timotei> gabba usually tilda is for bringing down the console, but since the commands are entered via 'enter' key, I think it should be ok.
20100729 23:02:00< boucman> gabba: tilde is alt-gr + 2 on french keyboard... you would have to make it configurable, so back to step one
20100729 23:02:08-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@p3EE252C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100729 23:02:42< gabba> boucman: unless the keycode for that upper-left key is the same on all keyboards
20100729 23:02:53< elias> tile is a dead key here so need two separate key presses to get it
20100729 23:02:57< Crab_> silene: so, wesnoth.synchronize_choice , with something like ` wesnoth.fire("get_global_variable", .... ) return wesnoth.get_variable(....)   ` as    function to compute   will allow to use SP persistence in MP ?
20100729 23:03:21< elias> ~ n = ñ ~ <space> = ~ and so on :P
20100729 23:03:36< boucman> gabba: let's face it, there is no key. we need to let the user change it...
20100729 23:03:44< silene> Crab_: yes, as long as you do it at the correct time; in other word, it's a push mechanism, not a pull one
20100729 23:03:45-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100729 23:04:07< gabba> boucman: but I think I should rather change the way the ctrl key works: instead of activating/deactivating when it's pressed, I'll check if it's pressed and nothing else is at the last moment possible.
20100729 23:04:11< boucman> or get rid/remap of the "shift acceleration" functionality
20100729 23:04:29< silene> Crab_: for instance, during the first turn, each side could send to all the clients its persistent data
20100729 23:04:55-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Quit: :wq]
20100729 23:05:30< Crab_> Upth: try that, as well. it will be cool if we get it working for MP, too. Then, you'd be able to make a lua decorator to read the side= part of [set_global_variable] and [get_global_variable]  tags and then invoke the 'old' c++ tag using mp sync framework
20100729 23:05:33-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin]
20100729 23:06:43< Crab_> Upth: and, if you get it to work, it'll put you `back on track` quite fast :)
20100729 23:07:37< timotei> god... I hate wml syntax :))
20100729 23:07:41< Upth> Yeah, that's a good idea.
20100729 23:07:52< boucman> gabba: hmm, yes, ctrl-keypress could be separate from the ctrl-mouse handling
20100729 23:08:17< CIA-87> espreon * r44872 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/docs/new-quenoth-elves: Added the info file for the new Quenoth elves.
20100729 23:08:43< CIA-87> espreon * r44873 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/docs/note: Removed the note...
20100729 23:09:19< Crab_> silene: thanks 
20100729 23:09:41< silene> Crab_: which build systems are you using?
20100729 23:09:59< Crab_> scons under debian gnu/linux
20100729 23:10:20< Crab_> and MSVC (both express and professional) on windows 2003 and windows 7.
20100729 23:10:53< Crab_> and scons under freebsd (rarely, for ai batch testing)
20100729 23:11:07< Crab_> (for MSVC, I use cmake recipe)
20100729 23:11:22< silene> okay, just checking, in case i finally commit the lua import
20100729 23:11:30< gabba> boucman: still annoying for fast players though... they won't have a way to do a few planned recruits with just the keyboard
20100729 23:11:52< boucman> hmm...
20100729 23:11:58< boucman> yes
20100729 23:12:16< boucman> is the tab key used ? :P
20100729 23:12:21< gabba> boucman: maybe moving the acceleration elsewhere than shift is a good idea, or else use Tab which doesn't seem to be used... but I had other plans for that one eventually
20100729 23:12:26< gabba> ^ :)
20100729 23:12:26 * boucman stares at his keyboard...
20100729 23:12:50< CIA-87> espreon * r44874 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (25 files in 2 dirs): Ran umcpropfix.
20100729 23:13:26< boucman> gabba: what plans ?  and yes, moving the anim accel away would be a good way to do it. that one could maybe be moved to ctrl, since you usually don't press it while playing...
20100729 23:13:53< gabba> boucman: a quick search for SDLK_TAB reveals it's only used for text completion in the lobby/console
20100729 23:14:38< gabba> boucman: problem with shift is, it's also used in (much fewer) hotkeys, and users can use it as a modifier for custom hotkeys
20100729 23:15:24< boucman> ok.... so tab sounds like the way to g
20100729 23:15:27< gabba> boucman: plans for Tab: I wanted to use it for a "future" view where arrows etc. disappear and you only see future positions of units
20100729 23:15:28< boucman> gpo
20100729 23:15:30< boucman> go
20100729 23:17:39< gabba> So, Tab it'll be I guess. I can make it configurable eventually, but not from the hotkey system (I'm not rewriting *that* !!)
20100729 23:19:23< boucman> ok, fair enough
20100729 23:20:07< CIA-87> silene * r44875 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Fixed unbalanced stack.
20100729 23:20:36 * billynux thinks his hand is broken, seriously :S
20100729 23:21:03< CIA-87> espreon * r44876 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/ (15 files): Fixed textdomain bindings.
20100729 23:22:10< zookeeper> Espreon, ok, so have those new units you just committed been tweaked based on the discussion we had about them a few days back, or not?
20100729 23:22:29< Espreon> zookeeper: Uh, fendrin committed them.
20100729 23:22:33< CIA-87> espreon * r44877 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (18 files in 3 dirs): Ran wmlindent.
20100729 23:22:37< Espreon> I just commited the info file.
20100729 23:22:41< zookeeper> oh, right, sorry
20100729 23:22:46< Espreon> 'Tis fine.
20100729 23:22:46< zookeeper> fendrin, ^
20100729 23:23:04< fendrin> zookeeper: Yes, they are tweaked based on that.
20100729 23:23:38< zookeeper> okay
20100729 23:24:40< CIA-87> fendrin * r44878 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/Kaleh.cfg: Changed Kaleh's amla to give him advantages in spear fighting.
20100729 23:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 131 bugs, 283 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100729 23:29:40< esr> boucman, zookeeper: You've seen bug #16275 (Drake clasher spear attack animation targets wrong hex)? Looks like it ought to be an easy fix. 
20100729 23:29:42< zookeeper> i just hope all that's gonna work out
20100729 23:30:08< timotei> ok guys... i'm out.
20100729 23:30:28< billynux> bye timotei 
20100729 23:30:28< timotei> good night gabba, boucman , billynux, Upth 
20100729 23:30:33< CIA-87> billynux * r44879 /trunk/src/ (network_async.cpp network_async.hpp network_manager_ana.cpp): Initial implementation of the server side of the new network API.
20100729 23:30:36< zookeeper> esr, umm, no, it's just an art issue
20100729 23:31:11-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100729 23:31:33< zookeeper> i assigned it to TSI
20100729 23:35:08-!- knotwork [~markm@142.177.234.4] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100729 23:35:33< Espreon> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=446402#p446402 ...
20100729 23:35:36 * Espreon chuckles
20100729 23:37:09< Upth> night timo... oh
20100729 23:41:18-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100729 23:44:52-!- Upth [~ogmar@69.62.144.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100729 23:45:30< Espreon> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/X3j3eqh9 — Oh noez1
20100729 23:45:32< Espreon> *!
20100729 23:47:05< Espreon> alink; someone: ^
20100729 23:47:12-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100729 23:49:54< alink> Espreon: too slow, it was probably for Upth and Crab_ but they leave just before your pastebin
20100729 23:50:39< Espreon> I know, but you're my only hope!
20100729 23:50:43< Espreon> ... I think.
20100729 23:51:28< alink> well, I am busy now, and not my area. Maybe later if it annoys me enough.
20100729 23:51:40< zookeeper> fendrin, Espreon, so, if i heavily disagree on something about the new quenoth, should i simply complain to you about it or..?
20100729 23:51:42 * alink afk
20100729 23:51:58< fendrin> zookeeper: Yes, please give feedback.
20100729 23:52:36< zookeeper> fendrin, ok, i'll just list a few points before going to bed, we can actually talk about it some other time:
20100729 23:53:36-!- mordocai [~mordocai@66.119.9.243] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20100729 23:53:49< zookeeper> 1) the twinedge: please, no. as i said before it's just...a ridiculous idea, regardless of whether stuff like that is all over the place in other fantasy settings
20100729 23:54:15< billynux> i'm off
20100729 23:54:16-!- billynux [~billy@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100729 23:56:04< zookeeper> 2) seems pretty boring to have the fighter line have the same weapon deal both pierce and blade, and then have nothing else...the difference between blade and pierce in UtBS seems pretty minimal
20100729 23:57:11< zookeeper> 3) i hope the fact that hunters have both pierce and impact bolas isn't intended
20100729 23:57:23-!- Sirp [~me@pool-71-164-166-178.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100729 23:57:52< fendrin> zookeeper: 3) Yes that is intended. 
20100729 23:58:03< fendrin> zookeeper: What is wrong with that?
20100729 23:58:29< zookeeper> well that just sounds like unnecessary attempt at some kind of realism to me
20100729 23:58:48< fendrin> zookeeper: It's to balance out the slowing.
20100729 23:59:00< fendrin> zookeeper: The impact does not slow. The pierce does.
20100729 23:59:04< zookeeper> why can't it be balanced if there's just one attack?
--- Log closed Fri Jul 30 00:00:07 2010