--- Log opened Tue Jul 06 00:00:56 2010
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20100706 00:34:11< Hulavuta> i_am_not_shadowm: That was odd
20100706 00:36:33< shadowmaster> what was odd?
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20100706 00:38:30< Hulavuta> Why would you rename shadowm_laptop to i_am_not_shadowm
20100706 00:38:32< Hulavuta> ?
20100706 00:39:10< shadowmaster> it makes sense in context.
20100706 00:39:31< shadowmaster> but since you aren't in all the same channels I am (thankfully), you don't need to know about it.
20100706 00:39:39< Hulavuta> :'(
20100706 00:42:17< Carneus> can somebody recommend me a good campaign without any "special" scenarios (maps without castles, respawning enemies etc.)
20100706 00:42:29< Carneus> i hate those
20100706 00:43:25< shadowmaster> Eastern Invasion
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20100706 00:44:22< Carneus> thanks
20100706 00:45:03< Carneus> btw, is there some documentation about how to make scenarios/campaigns?
20100706 00:45:08< Hulavuta> Yes
20100706 00:45:16< Carneus> if i understood correctly some lua scripting is required?
20100706 00:45:20< shadowmaster> no
20100706 00:45:21< Hulavuta> No and Yes
20100706 00:45:26< artisticdude> No.
20100706 00:45:26< Hulavuta> Well mostly no
20100706 00:45:28< shadowmaster> lua is optional
20100706 00:45:43< Hulavuta> But if I'm not mistaken, there are some things you can only do in lua
20100706 00:45:45< Carneus> that is not bad thing necessarily, i have coded lua before and integrated lua vm to my programs
20100706 00:45:55< Gambit> Hulavuta: There is almost nothing you can only do in lua
20100706 00:46:09< artisticdude> Is there anything?
20100706 00:46:09< Hulavuta> Wesnoth also has its own language
20100706 00:46:10< Gambit> Hulavuta: lua makes things easier
20100706 00:46:14< Gambit> artisticdude: yes
20100706 00:46:27< Gambit> Carneus: And the documentation for wesnoth is the best I have ever seen.
20100706 00:46:43< Carneus> lua wiki lists scenario tutorial "outdated", is this bad?
20100706 00:46:44< artisticdude> I should have guessed... *sigh*
20100706 00:47:10< Carneus> is the lua wiki official documentation?
20100706 00:47:20< Carneus> err not lua wiki, i meant wesnoth wiki
20100706 00:47:27< Gambit> Carneus: yes
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20100706 00:48:07< artisticdude> It's outdated in some parts, but most of it is up to date.
20100706 00:48:33< Hulavuta> The reference sheet is up to date, thankfully
20100706 00:48:36< Carneus> okay, because first i read the "manual" and there wasnt any information about any advanced stuff
20100706 00:48:53< Hulavuta> Are you planning to only use lua or are you planning to learn the Wesnoth language as well?
20100706 00:48:57< Carneus> and there wasnt a link to wiki in the frontpage
20100706 00:49:06< artisticdude> The manual is more for just 'players', not for 'creators'
20100706 00:49:08< Carneus> what is wesnoth language?
20100706 00:49:15< Hulavuta> WML
20100706 00:49:18< Hulavuta> It's a tag language
20100706 00:49:21< artisticdude> It's a markup language.
20100706 00:49:37< Carneus> oh, i am not a much of fan of xml languakes
20100706 00:49:45< artisticdude> If you know lua, you shouldn't have a problem.
20100706 00:49:50< Gambit> artisticdude: lies
20100706 00:49:54< Gambit> Lua is nothing like WML
20100706 00:50:13< Carneus> yea, i don't mind programming
20100706 00:50:21< artisticdude> I'm saying that if he knows how to code in lua, learning WML should be easy.
20100706 00:50:25< Carneus> maybe i will contribute something to wesnoth source code too someday
20100706 00:50:31< Hulavuta> That's nice
20100706 00:50:39< Gambit> markup langauges are the best
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20100706 00:50:45< Gambit> (like cfml!)
20100706 00:51:03< Carneus> Hulavuta, do you know what stuff needs implementing?
20100706 00:51:10< Hulavuta> Carneus: Don't get your hopes up super high though, unless you're really good at all of these languages already, because most people don't even finish their first campaign
20100706 00:51:11< Hulavuta> No,
20100706 00:51:20< Hulavuta> Ask around the forums
20100706 00:51:20< Carneus> Hulavuta, i am pretty good
20100706 00:51:30< Hulavuta> I'm not really a "high-up" person
20100706 00:51:39< Hulavuta> I just hang out here a lot and I like to answer questions
20100706 00:51:42< Carneus> over 15 years of programming and university education
20100706 00:51:46< Hulavuta> Well then
20100706 00:52:26< Gambit> Carneus: C++?
20100706 00:52:31< Carneus> mostly c++
20100706 00:52:36< Hulavuta> That's good
20100706 00:52:48< Carneus> i dont like it but yeah i do c++ for my profession too
20100706 00:52:49< Gambit> Carneus: there's an "easy coding" page on the wiki
20100706 00:52:57< Gambit> Where people can get started and introduced to the "code base"
20100706 00:53:08< Hulavuta> Is summer of code still going on? He could apply
20100706 00:53:11< Gambit> And then there's http://bugs.wesnoth.org/
20100706 00:53:46< Gambit> Carneus: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding
20100706 00:53:56< Carneus> i have my job already, so no summer of coding for me :)
20100706 00:54:05< Carneus> don't have enough time for that
20100706 00:54:12< Carneus> Gambit, nice
20100706 00:54:22< Carneus> i think that the AI stuff would be interesting
20100706 00:54:42< Hulavuta> Yeah, how did I forget about the AI
20100706 00:55:00< Carneus> have you implemented the AI in c++ or lua?
20100706 00:55:15< Gambit> Carneus: The AI was given it's own language as a subset of WML
20100706 00:55:24< Gambit> FormulaAI WML
20100706 00:55:34< Gambit> But that still talks to the C++ stuff afaik.
20100706 00:55:57< Carneus> years ago i scripted age of empires 2 AI
20100706 00:56:00< Gambit> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/FormulaAI
20100706 00:56:02< Carneus> it had a similar approach i think
20100706 00:56:13< Carneus> it was based on triggers/actions
20100706 00:56:34< Carneus> well you couldnt really script any planning or advanced stuff like that with it
20100706 00:56:39< Carneus> but it was okay
20100706 00:57:03< Carneus> maybe i'll shut up and read the docs now
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20100706 01:04:33< Carneus> is it possible to create full, general AI for general random play with the FAI language?
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20100706 01:10:05< Elvish_Pillager> Carneus: I believe so
20100706 01:11:03< Carneus> do you know if there's a need for a such thing?
20100706 01:12:20< Elvish_Pillager> A need for one to be created?
20100706 01:12:41< Elvish_Pillager> It's definitely not a high priority as far as I'm concerned... Wesnoth's C++ AI is pretty good
20100706 01:13:06< Elvish_Pillager> and it wouldn't really be useful as example code for campaign writers if it was really optimized to be good
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20100706 01:14:34< Carneus> alright, so there's no need to rewrite c++ AI with wml
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20100706 01:37:45< PeterPorty> ahhh.... finally back from sports.
20100706 01:37:47< PeterPorty> Hi guys.
20100706 01:45:37< Carneus> well, i dig through the wml and ai code
20100706 01:46:10< Carneus> there is something funny in lexer/parser, for example operators like "=>" are passed to parse by string
20100706 01:46:20< Carneus> imho it would be better to pass them as tokens
20100706 01:48:10< Gambit> Wesnoths FAI AI is smarter than its default AI actually I thought.
20100706 01:49:31< Carneus> actually i didnt find the place where the syntax tree gets constructed
20100706 01:49:54< Carneus> hmm, so there is full AI scripted with FAI?
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20100706 01:51:53< Gambit> Carneus: I think the RCA AI is written in FAI
20100706 01:52:13< Gambit> It's selectable in the drop down when setting up a game against the computer.
20100706 01:53:01< Carneus> cool
20100706 01:53:23< Carneus> the AI stuff seems to be in a pretty good shape
20100706 01:53:35< Carneus> no need for me to fiddle there
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20100706 01:58:15< Carneus> oh no wait, there is eval ai in NotSoEasyCoding section
20100706 01:58:24< Carneus> i thought that the current ai is implemented that way
20100706 01:59:01< Carneus> do you know the guy who would be best information about this topic?
20100706 02:01:29< shadowmaster> Crab.
20100706 02:02:22< Gambit> Carneus: when he's around he hangs out in #wesnoth-dev
20100706 02:02:51< Carneus> alright
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20100706 02:48:31< Valkier> Ok. New elf chick.
20100706 02:48:32< Valkier> http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=42723
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20100706 02:58:44< Zerovirus> This one looks a small bit more manly
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20100706 02:59:28< elvish_sovereign> Valkier: oooh
20100706 02:59:37< Valkier> Zerovirus: You're a strange, strange person.
20100706 03:00:08< PeterPorty> Valkier, is the tranny thing in purpouse?
20100706 03:00:16< Valkier> lol
20100706 03:01:06< Valkier> The girl she's based off of would be very displeased to hear this.
20100706 03:01:13< elvish_sovereign> lol
20100706 03:01:36< Valkier> Well.. I guess girl(s)
20100706 03:01:45< Valkier> Did a little mixing when one had a pig nose.
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20100706 03:05:45< Valkier> Ok, I think I fixed it. http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=42724&mode=view
20100706 03:05:55< Valkier> Christ. No wonder none of you guys have a girlfriend.
20100706 03:07:21< Valkier> Someone has cheeks anywhere above aneorexic and they look like men to you. :-P
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20100706 03:10:31< Zerovirus> Heh, I personally think it's more the lips
20100706 03:10:33< Zerovirus> but that's just me
20100706 03:10:42< Zerovirus> Anyways, I'm going to post a new version of UtBS units
20100706 03:10:53< Zerovirus> (I'm not sure I went with the right unit design for Twinmaster)
20100706 03:15:33< Valkier> :-P
20100706 03:15:42< Valkier> Well I shrank them down a bit. Guess it looks better.
20100706 03:16:40-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100706 03:17:47< Zerovirus> So Valk, what do you think?
20100706 03:17:56< Valkier> ?
20100706 03:18:02< Valkier> Of?
20100706 03:18:25< Zerovirus> The sprites
20100706 03:18:34< Zerovirus> I realize you're not really the person or persons I usually ask
20100706 03:18:37< Zerovirus> but nobody else is talking
20100706 03:18:49< Valkier> Oh
20100706 03:18:53< Valkier> Let me look.
20100706 03:19:20< Valkier> I'm liking them
20100706 03:20:05< Valkier> http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=42726&mode=view
20100706 03:20:12< Valkier> Happy with the lips now? :-P
20100706 03:20:51< Valkier> Not that it matters since everyone is going to find something different attractive.
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20100706 03:27:45< Hulavuta> Hi
20100706 03:28:11-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20100706 03:28:14< Valkier> Yo
20100706 03:28:43< Hulavuta> Hows it going? 
20100706 03:28:58< Hulavuta> Do you play StarCraft?
20100706 03:29:29< Valkier> The original, yes.
20100706 03:29:39< Hulavuta> Are you planning to get number 2?
20100706 03:29:44< Valkier> Nope
20100706 03:29:50< Hulavuta> Me neither
20100706 03:29:54< Valkier> No LAN play. No purchase.
20100706 03:30:04< Hulavuta> I hate the idea of splitting the campaigns too
20100706 03:30:36< Valkier> I don't care so much about that.
20100706 03:30:56< Valkier> But I have a feeling they'll release new units for the MP or something to entice people like me who hate the campaigns.
20100706 03:31:02< Hulavuta> You'll have to buy three games 
20100706 03:31:12< Hulavuta> That are all the same game
20100706 03:31:42< Valkier> Yeah, no thanks.
20100706 03:31:50< Valkier> Blizzard gets enough money every month from WoW.
20100706 03:32:09< Valkier> What's going on now is just greedy.
20100706 03:32:45< Aethaeryn> oh, yes, game companies are seeing how far they can get away with in terms of DRM and paid DLC
20100706 03:33:10< Aethaeryn> EA is probably the worst
20100706 03:33:12< Valkier> I don't even like playing videogames anymore. :-P
20100706 03:33:16< Hulavuta> WoW! That's a low price! 
20100706 03:33:19< Valkier> I buy one or two a year.
20100706 03:33:40< Hulavuta> I plan to get WarioWare DIY
20100706 03:33:51< Hulavuta> cuz my birthday is in 10 days
20100706 03:38:04< Aethaeryn> It's not that I don't like video games it's that I have almost no time for them.
20100706 03:38:12< Aethaeryn> I probably won't buy any for over a year at this point.
20100706 03:40:39< Hulavuta> Aethaeryn: You're in college, right?
20100706 03:40:54< Aethaeryn> yes
20100706 03:41:10< Hulavuta> Is that why?
20100706 03:41:31< Aethaeryn> I'm double majoring right now, and taking a rather difficult schedule. Even with summer semesters, I have no room for error.
20100706 03:41:40< Aethaeryn> College is what you make of it.
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20100706 03:42:08< Aethaeryn> You can take easy classes, hard classes. You can try for As, you can glide by with the minimum (usually Cs actually).
20100706 03:42:29< Aethaeryn> And you can take whatever subjects, too. Some are heavier on homework or readings than others. I would not want to take a literature class.
20100706 03:43:09< Aethaeryn> So, college can be fun, fun, fun, lotsa free time. Or it can be no life.
20100706 03:43:58< Hulavuta> Cool story bro
20100706 03:44:10< Aethaeryn> Note that classes aren't that bad. The trouble in terms of time-intensity depends on how much reading/homework/studying you need to do out of class.
20100706 03:44:21< Valkier> Who needs elf boobs?
20100706 03:44:25< Valkier> Someone needs elf boobs.
20100706 03:44:30< Hulavuta> Aethaeryn: College is a while fore me
20100706 03:44:32< Hulavuta> *for
20100706 03:44:42< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: what year?
20100706 03:44:56< Hulavuta> I graduate 2014, if i'm not mistaken, and if I don't get held back
20100706 03:45:17< Aethaeryn> Wow.
20100706 03:45:22< Aethaeryn> I graduated 2008.
20100706 03:45:37< Hulavuta> I'm 13
20100706 03:45:42< Hulavuta> My birthday is in 10 days though
20100706 03:45:59< Hulavuta> I don't have to lie about my age to join internet website anymore lol
20100706 03:46:06< Hulavuta> That was kind of redundant
20100706 03:46:06< Aethaeryn> I turn 20 in August.
20100706 03:46:17< Aethaeryn> Honestly, until I was 17 or 18 I lied about my age :-P
20100706 03:46:27< Hulavuta> Why?
20100706 03:46:33< Aethaeryn> You get more respect that way.
20100706 03:46:40< Aethaeryn> If you act very formally, act about 10 years older.
20100706 03:47:04 * Valkier grumbles about feeling old
20100706 03:47:06< Hulavuta> Also school years need to be the same as regular years, instead of starting late summer and ending early summer
20100706 03:48:31< Aethaeryn> Valkier: the earliest OS I grew up on was Windows 95. My grandmom had a Win 3.1 computer that I used occasionally, mostly to play Wolfenstein 3D.
20100706 03:48:47< Aethaeryn> Valkier: And I'm going to be a junior in college this fall.
20100706 03:48:52< Aethaeryn> Valkier: *Now* do you feel old?
20100706 03:49:13< Aethaeryn> I grew up on GUIs. And Internet (Netscape).
20100706 03:49:31< Valkier> Aethaeryn: I used a Comadore 64 as a kid
20100706 03:50:00< Valkier> I remember when we got windows 3.1 and thought it was amazing.
20100706 03:50:09< Aethaeryn> I don't really know what that is except for vague references in tech blogs over the years and the occassional reference (such as seeing an old nolstagia ad for it)
20100706 03:50:11< Valkier> I thought the version of paint it came with was the greatest thing ever.
20100706 03:51:07< Aethaeryn> Well, I remember the Internet before IE was integrated in a Win 95 update or something.
20100706 03:51:16< Aethaeryn> With Netscape.
20100706 03:51:28< Valkier> Dialup
20100706 03:51:28< Aethaeryn> I also remember AOL Explorer a little while later...
20100706 03:51:31< Aethaeryn> yup
20100706 03:51:35< Aethaeryn> So we can feel old together
20100706 03:51:38< Valkier> lol
20100706 03:51:46< Valkier> I used to play an atari. :-(
20100706 03:51:47< Aethaeryn> because in about 2-3 years, there'll be a large group that doesn't remember pre-IE and a little while after that...
20100706 03:52:05< Aethaeryn> There'll be a group that doesn't remember dial-up.
20100706 03:52:11< Aethaeryn> Valkier: I played on an Atari, too.
20100706 03:52:28< Aethaeryn> I have old parents (for my age) and I'm the youngest of 6 cousins. So I had a bit of an experience with 80s stuff.
20100706 03:52:39< Aethaeryn> Mostly we played NES and SNES though.
20100706 03:52:48< Aethaeryn> Super Mario World and Super Mario Kart were awesome and state of the art. :o
20100706 03:52:53< Valkier> heh. I was a sega kid.
20100706 03:53:04< Aethaeryn> Nintendo all the way.
20100706 03:53:11< Valkier> nah
20100706 03:53:16< Valkier> Ever since N64 they sucked.
20100706 03:53:29< Valkier> I still have the original gameboy though.
20100706 03:53:36< Aethaeryn> NES/SNES growing up, then my best friend had an N64 (goleneye, super smash brothers, etc.) and a gameboy color
20100706 03:53:38< Valkier> AND a gamegear
20100706 03:53:46< Aethaeryn> so naturally, I *had* to get a Gamecube and a GBA
20100706 03:53:58< Aethaeryn> meh, picked the wrong side that generation.
20100706 03:54:10< Aethaeryn> But basically I skipped Sega mostly, though a few people I knew had one.
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20100706 03:54:21< Aethaeryn> I was the one with the Gamecube and a few of my friends had the PS2.
20100706 03:54:30< Aethaeryn> GTA 3 :D
20100706 03:54:35< Valkier> Yeah. I went from a genesis to a PS1
20100706 03:54:58< Valkier> I mostly got it because Sony made it out of spite.
20100706 03:55:17< Hulavuta> I used to have an original Gameboy Pocket
20100706 03:55:24< Hulavuta> And I STILL use my N64
20100706 03:55:37< Aethaeryn> so it was basically NES/SNES (cousins) -> N64/GBC (friends) -> Gamecube/GBA (me) + PS2 (everyone else I knew) -> Xbox 360 (me, friends) + PS3 (friends)
20100706 03:55:40< Aethaeryn> And PC all the way.
20100706 03:55:45< Aethaeryn> More of a PC gamer than a console one, tbh.
20100706 03:55:50< Hulavuta> The only good game I have is Starfox anyway
20100706 03:55:56< Aethaeryn> Oh, you know what's sad?
20100706 03:56:07< Aethaeryn> Valkier: There's a generation of people who don't even really know what a "gameboy" is
20100706 03:56:09< Hulavuta> I can't afford any consoles
20100706 03:56:13< Hulavuta> N64 is the latest I have
20100706 03:56:14< Aethaeryn> Everyone who grew up in the 80s and 90s knows gameboy
20100706 03:56:22< Hulavuta> I grew up in the 90's yay
20100706 03:56:24< Aethaeryn> but the newer generation just knows them as DSes
20100706 03:56:35< Aethaeryn> since they've now had 3 generations of them... DS, DSi, 3DS
20100706 03:56:41< Hulavuta> There are too many DSs
20100706 03:56:57< Hulavuta> DS, DS Lite, DSi, 3DS, DSiXL...
20100706 03:56:57< Aethaeryn> my point is, eventually gameboy will be as obscure as commadore.
20100706 03:56:58< Aethaeryn> :S
20100706 03:57:04< Hulavuta> What's commadore?
20100706 03:57:06< Hulavuta> The band?
20100706 03:57:10< Aethaeryn> Valkier: ^
20100706 03:57:38< Aethaeryn> oh, don't forget some 90s PC makers...
20100706 03:57:56< Aethaeryn> Gateway, Compaq (before used for branding low-end HP computers), and IBM-when-they-sold-to-consumers
20100706 03:58:08< Aethaeryn> IBM Thinkpads, not Lenovo
20100706 03:58:29< Aethaeryn> and my Win-ME-replaced-with-2k-due-to-stability-issues computer was an IBM
20100706 03:58:43< Aethaeryn> a desktop
20100706 03:59:37< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64
20100706 03:59:48< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga
20100706 03:59:58< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_%28protocol%29
20100706 04:00:01< Hulavuta> I don't remember the Commodore, but I remember the abacus
20100706 04:00:07< Valkier> Sorry
20100706 04:00:15< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
20100706 04:00:17< Valkier> Commadore 64 was one of the first interations of modern computers.
20100706 04:00:24< Valkier> I think it just ran DOS.
20100706 04:00:26< Aethaeryn> so many old computers.
20100706 04:00:31< Aethaeryn> and technologies.
20100706 04:00:41< Aethaeryn> IRC is actually counted among the ancient techs. I'm running this in a terminal. :-)
20100706 04:00:53< Hulavuta> Quote from JP3: "We only have 3 weeks until we have to shut down the digging site" 
20100706 04:01:02< Aethaeryn> IRC was fortunate in that it found a niche, two even... Gaming and FOSS.
20100706 04:01:07< Hulavuta> "Make that 2 weeks. I bought something. Do you like computers?"
20100706 04:01:14< Hulavuta> "I liked the abacus, Billy."
20100706 04:02:15< Hulavuta> I'm going to rewatch Star Wars
20100706 04:03:39< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: Oh, there was a time when Microsoft was cool.
20100706 04:03:44< Aethaeryn> And was used as an example of success.
20100706 04:03:55< Hulavuta> I know
20100706 04:04:00< Aethaeryn> And everyone both parodied Bill Gates and used him as an example of a brillaint rich guy
20100706 04:04:01< Hulavuta> I did a Biography on Bill Gates
20100706 04:04:09< Aethaeryn> Nowadays, Apple has taken over...
20100706 04:04:13< Aethaeryn> And likewise Steve Jobs.
20100706 04:04:16< Aethaeryn> It's kinda funny.
20100706 04:04:20< Hulavuta> Apple was the first company to use a mouse and icons
20100706 04:04:34< Hulavuta> Before they were Apple
20100706 04:04:36< Aethaeryn> No, Xerox was?
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20100706 04:04:49< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_PARC
20100706 04:04:59< Hulavuta> I'm pretty sure it was Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak
20100706 04:05:20< Aethaeryn> http://images.appleinsider.com/leopard-preview-desktop-3.jpg
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20100706 04:05:41< Aethaeryn> http://media2.ntvmsnbc.com/i/NTVMSNBC/Components/ArtAndPhoto-Fronts/Sections-StoryLevel/Teknoloji/Donan%C4%B1m%20ve%20Elektronik/090416-buluslar-7-altost.jpg
20100706 04:05:44< Aethaeryn> early gui = Xerox
20100706 04:06:01< Aethaeryn> they just didn't commercialize it and so Apple stole it and sold it, first in the failure Lisa and then in the Macintosh
20100706 04:06:21< Hulavuta> Is there a reason that the Emperor didn't appear in the first Star Wars?
20100706 04:06:26< Aethaeryn> The screen was different too in that it was portrait instead of landscape (almost like smartphones default to now)
20100706 04:06:52< Aethaeryn> because Xerox, being a copier company, obviously wanted it to be dealing with paper and stuff
20100706 04:07:06< Hulavuta> What does that have to do with Star Wars?
20100706 04:07:21< Aethaeryn> http://media.photobucket.com/image/xerox%20gui/euphras/Heinz%2520Nixdorf%2520Museum/Xerox-Alto.jpg
20100706 04:07:24< Aethaeryn> the first GUI
20100706 04:08:34< Aethaeryn> Hulavuta: the emperor didn't have a big role until the third movie (episode vi)
20100706 04:08:48< Aethaeryn> and the emperor in episode v was originally a different guy. and he was there for a scene.
20100706 04:09:16< Hulavuta> Yeah but why?
20100706 04:09:23< Aethaeryn> it's an example of a trilogy NOT being shot at the same time (like a lot of more recent ones, such as LotR) or even planned to go together necessarily (like the prequel trilogy)
20100706 04:09:26< Aethaeryn> so the story wasn't cohesive.
20100706 04:09:29< Aethaeryn> as in, retconning
20100706 04:09:35< Aethaeryn> common in comics, for instance.
20100706 04:10:05< Hulavuta> I'm leaving now
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20100706 05:58:57< Valkier> http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=42730&mode=view
20100706 06:03:57< Aethaeryn> Valkier: hmm, can't quite place how, but that image looks different from yesterday.
20100706 06:04:37< Valkier> lol
20100706 06:04:43< Valkier> A bit perhaps.
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20100706 08:10:01< Ivanovic> moin
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20100706 14:41:54< Hulavuta> Hi
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20100706 15:46:55< e_s-iOS> Hi
20100706 15:47:14-!- sevis [~sevis@188.91.5.3] has joined #wesnoth
20100706 15:48:47< e_s-iOS> Noone here?
20100706 15:48:52< Hulavuta> I'm here
20100706 15:48:54< Hulavuta> To eat your brains
20100706 15:48:55< e_s-iOS> Lol
20100706 15:49:06< Hulavuta> So can I have one?
20100706 15:49:11< e_s-iOS> No
20100706 15:49:18< Hulavuta> What if I work on TGJ?
20100706 15:49:18< e_s-iOS> I dot have many lol
20100706 15:49:31< e_s-iOS> Don't *
20100706 15:49:52< Hulavuta> (9:49:18 AM) Hulavuta: What if I work on TGJ?
20100706 15:50:02< e_s-iOS> Lol
20100706 15:50:12< Hulavuta> Then will you give me a brain?
20100706 15:50:23< e_s-iOS> Wha?
20100706 15:50:31< e_s-iOS> I'm sure you have plenty...
20100706 15:50:54< Hulavuta> Lol
20100706 15:51:06< Hulavuta> e_s-iOS=Kiss Ass
20100706 15:51:14< e_s-iOS> Wha?
20100706 15:51:19< e_s-iOS> To you?
20100706 15:51:21< Hulavuta> Lol
20100706 15:51:25< Hulavuta> It's just a joke lol
20100706 15:51:30< e_s-iOS> Ahh
20100706 15:51:35< e_s-iOS> Missed that...
20100706 15:53:46< Hulavuta> You would
20100706 15:53:53< e_s-iOS> Lol
20100706 15:53:54< Hulavuta> Because you don't have many brain cells
20100706 15:54:01< Hulavuta> Get it?
20100706 15:54:02< Hulavuta> Lolol
20100706 15:54:11< e_s-iOS> Lol
20100706 15:59:14< e_s-iOS> So Hulavuta, did you play forgatto
20100706 15:59:19< e_s-iOS> Frogatto*
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20100706 16:01:57< e_s-iOS> Ok, gotta disconnect for a sec
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20100706 16:32:01< Unnheulu> German exchange kids in school
20100706 16:32:08< Unnheulu> Their english is...amazing
20100706 16:33:54< artisticdude> How is their German? :P
20100706 16:34:01< Unnheulu> Dunno; I don't speak it :P
20100706 16:35:07< artisticdude> There were some Germans in a fencing tournament I attended not too long ago. My dad (who spent a year in Germany and majored in German) had a fun time talking to them in their native language (at least, what he could remember of it).
20100706 16:35:29< artisticdude> But they messed up the ratings for the tournament, because they weren't rated in this country. :(
20100706 16:37:17< Valkier> Ok, so if people keep nitpicking useless crap in my thread, I'm going to stab them.
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20100706 16:41:54< Blarumyrran> Her right eye is too close to the center of his face
20100706 16:42:07< artisticdude> ???
20100706 16:42:18< Unnheulu> Hehe
20100706 16:42:24 * Unnheulu is using irssi
20100706 16:42:36< Valkier> The eye on our right or hers?
20100706 16:42:40< Unnheulu> It feels cooler having a fullscreen terminal than a fullscreen irclient
20100706 16:42:50< Blarumyrran> her right
20100706 16:43:02< Valkier> I actually think it's not close enough.
20100706 16:43:15< Blarumyrran> Well, I don't really know what's wrong about it but it looks very off
20100706 16:43:23< Valkier> I agree
20100706 16:43:42< Valkier> I think it's too far over, because at that angle it wouldn't be as close to the bridge of her nose as the eye on the left.
20100706 16:43:57< Valkier> The shape looks funky too.
20100706 16:44:33< Valkier> I kind of like that her neck is slightly elongated though.
20100706 16:44:54< Valkier> It's just enough that it still keeps her human, but a little more.. majestic? Not sure if that's the word.
20100706 16:45:18< artisticdude> Elves are supposed to be somewhat taller and thinner then humans anyway, aren't they?
20100706 16:45:36< Blarumyrran> His neck is brownish
20100706 16:45:44< Blarumyrran> It looks like some leather thing on first glance
20100706 16:45:48< Valkier> Yeah, I'm lighting the neck a bit. :-P
20100706 16:45:57< Valkier> I'm not sure what I was thinking there.
20100706 16:46:09< Valkier> I maybe I wasn't thinking at all!
20100706 16:46:27< Valkier> And don't bother going in to the hair. I just got tired and stopped there last night.
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20100706 16:51:44< Blarumyrran> A quick hack http://imagebin.org/104206
20100706 16:52:46< Valkier> Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
20100706 16:52:53< Valkier> Just writing a lengthy post before I begin.
20100706 16:53:04< Valkier> I do kind of like the blue eyes thing the other guy did.
20100706 16:53:11< Valkier> But green feels more elfish.
20100706 16:54:22< Blarumyrran> Orly
20100706 16:54:37< Blarumyrran> I gave that evil teacher of Descent into Darkness also green eyes
20100706 16:55:46< Blarumyrran> Because kitty put green steam all around necromancers, and so I thought his eyes should be green too since he's the staple necromancer
20100706 16:56:16< Valkier> Makes sense.
20100706 16:56:45< Valkier> Not sure I remember his portrait. Have a link?
20100706 16:58:07< Blarumyrran> http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=23769
20100706 16:58:14< Blarumyrran> The others are purple, I remembered them wrong
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20100706 16:59:01< Valkier> Oh wait, your DiD guy was the one with the blue.
20100706 16:59:04< Valkier> Older looking guy.
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20100706 16:59:06< Blarumyrran> Yes
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20100706 16:59:42< Valkier> Kinda reminds me of the Pope.
20100706 17:01:58< Blarumyrran> You're not the first to think along that
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20100706 17:30:19< Hulavuta> Hi
20100706 17:32:09< Hulavuta> This game is so confusing
20100706 17:32:12< Hulavuta> When the hell does it take place?
20100706 17:32:30< Valkier> Just before the dinner of an autistic child.
20100706 17:32:39< Hulavuta> Ok
20100706 17:32:48< Blarumyrran> I don't get the reference
20100706 17:33:03< Valkier> Some old TV show.
20100706 17:33:06< Hulavuta> I just playe StarCraft for the first time since like early November or late October
20100706 17:33:21< Valkier> General Hospital maybe?
20100706 17:35:56-!- The_User [~The@p5B136402.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100706 17:36:30< Hulavuta> WOW! THAT's a LOW Price!!!!
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20100706 18:47:10< elvish_sovereign> anyone wanna play MP?
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20100706 18:54:02< Hulavuta> Noo avatar 4 me
20100706 18:54:05< apoi> Hi!  Does anybody know what the "exported" in the version number means?  "Battle for Wesnoth v1.8.3 (exported)"
20100706 18:54:21< Hulavuta> Gambit: 
20100706 18:54:52< Hulavuta> Ivonavic probably knows
20100706 18:55:33< sevis> Sounds like it has been exported from SVN... Which seems likely, as 1.8.3 isn't out yet.
20100706 18:55:54< Hulavuta> 1.8.3 IS out
20100706 18:56:06 * sevis looks at the topic title.
20100706 18:56:06< Unnheulu> Hulavuta: eww whats that thing by your name?
20100706 18:56:15< Hulavuta> what u mean
20100706 18:56:30< sevis> Gah. Channel topic.
20100706 18:56:30< apoi> sevis: Every version is exported from SVN.  Not very meaningful then... ;-)
20100706 18:56:50< sevis> I know, which is why it seems strange.
20100706 18:57:02< Hulavuta> sevis: It has 1.8.3 on the website
20100706 18:57:19< Gambit> 1.8.3 has been out
20100706 18:57:23< Gambit> just no binaries yet
20100706 18:57:36< Gambit> wiat yes there are
20100706 18:57:42< Gambit> what are you all talking about again?
20100706 18:57:46< Hulavuta> Is there any way to make an image transparent without making its file size super huge?
20100706 18:58:01< apoi> I always use the sources.  I think the "exported" was added with 1.8.0.  IIRC.
20100706 18:58:57< Blarumyrran> Hulavuta, what's super huge
20100706 18:59:44< Hulavuta> Well the image was 3 kb and then when I made it transparent with GIMP it became 21 kb
20100706 19:00:46< Gambit> Hulavuta: So that's half a second on dialup
20100706 19:00:48< Unnheulu> 21kb still isn't that much
20100706 19:00:51< Blarumyrran> Hulavuta, for me, partly transparent image is actually SMALLER
20100706 19:00:52< Gambit> Not really a crime.
20100706 19:01:16< Hulavuta> Blarumyrran: What do you use?
20100706 19:01:27< sevis> Was the image originally a gif, and became a png?
20100706 19:01:33< Hulavuta> jpg
20100706 19:01:36< Hulavuta> And then I made it png
20100706 19:01:43< Unnheulu> Although most of the images used in my game have file sizes of about 3kb
20100706 19:01:47< Blarumyrran> http://imagebin.org/104230 http://imagebin.org/104231
20100706 19:01:48< Unnheulu> Even with transparency
20100706 19:01:52< Blarumyrran> The latter is transparent
20100706 19:01:56< Blarumyrran> and 2 bytes smaller
20100706 19:02:08< Hulavuta> What did you use?
20100706 19:02:12< Blarumyrran> Gimp
20100706 19:02:15< Hulavuta> Hmm
20100706 19:02:16< Hulavuta> That's odd
20100706 19:02:22< Hulavuta> Maybe it has to do with it being a Jpg and then a Png?
20100706 19:02:23< Gambit> Hulavuta: So it's not a matter of transparency
20100706 19:02:25< Gambit> It's a matter of file type
20100706 19:02:26< Blarumyrran> Lern 2 gimp Hulavuta 
20100706 19:02:38< Hulavuta> Blarumyrran: I can gimp
20100706 19:02:41< Gambit> jpegs are super compressed at the loss of quality
20100706 19:02:46< Hulavuta> Gambit: So what do I do?
20100706 19:02:46< Blarumyrran> You can't gimp properly perhaps
20100706 19:02:57< Hulavuta> It's because I had to change it to png
20100706 19:03:01< Gambit> Hulavuta: You live with your 21kb image...
20100706 19:03:05< Hulavuta> Lol
20100706 19:03:26< Gambit> Or
20100706 19:03:31< Gambit> you copypasta into a png? I dunno
20100706 19:03:44< Gambit> Hulavuta: what's the size WxH?
20100706 19:03:49< Hulavuta> wait a sec
20100706 19:04:48< Blarumyrran> Just give the original file here
20100706 19:05:18< Gambit> wesnoth sprites are 1-4 kb
20100706 19:05:31< Blarumyrran> My images were 425 and 427 B
20100706 19:05:42< Gambit> dayum
20100706 19:05:59< Gambit> oh
20100706 19:06:05< Gambit> Blarumyrran: Your images are smiley faces :\
20100706 19:06:11< Blarumyrran> :/
20100706 19:06:41< Blarumyrran> It's still cool how the transparent one is smaller since it won't save color information for fully transparent pixels
20100706 19:06:54< Blarumyrran> (Since that information would be useless of course)
20100706 19:07:24< Blarumyrran> (Unless you're hacking secret messages into your pngs)
20100706 19:08:14< Blarumyrran> (In which case you could as well put them into the comment chunks, which program ever seems to bother to read)
20100706 19:08:19< Blarumyrran> no program*
20100706 19:09:14< Hulavuta> Apparently everyone is in outrage of my avatar change
20100706 19:09:23< Unnheulu> I am
20100706 19:09:23< Blarumyrran> I don't know what your avatar is
20100706 19:09:30< Soliton> apoi: the exported means it wasn't built from an svn working dir (i.e. somewhere it'd know the revision).
20100706 19:09:36< Blarumyrran> Or what your previous one was
20100706 19:09:49< Hulavuta> You've never seen ANY of my posts on he forum?
20100706 19:09:52< Hulavuta> I have like 1500
20100706 19:09:59< Blarumyrran> I have
20100706 19:10:04< Hulavuta> so,
20100706 19:10:05< Blarumyrran> I just don't remember your avatar
20100706 19:10:06 * Unnheulu wonders if anyone dares him to rejoin #wesnoth-dev and ask when wesnoth will be rewritten in python
20100706 19:10:18< Hulavuta> lol
20100706 19:10:20< Gambit> Unnheulu: No.
20100706 19:10:25< Blarumyrran> Unnheulu, I saw something like that on the mailing list
20100706 19:10:29< Gambit> Nobody is going to dare you to troll the developers.
20100706 19:10:51< Unnheulu> Gambit: too late :)
20100706 19:10:52< apoi> Soliton: OK, sounds feasible.  Thank you!
20100706 19:11:04-!- FireFly [~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100706 19:11:42< Hulavuta> Unnheulu: I dare you to troll the developers
20100706 19:11:54< Gambit> There's a Dave quote about python. I'd search for it but quassel is gay.
20100706 19:13:03< Gambit> Something along the lines of going along, nodding your head and listening as they go on about how great their langauge is with 50 ways to do everything. But after they leave you do the real work in the real languages.
20100706 19:14:30< Blarumyrran> Unnheulu, that wasn't really funny
20100706 19:14:30< Hulavuta> :P
20100706 19:14:34< Gambit> The quassel log database is username and password protected, but I was never asked to set a username or password. :(
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20100706 19:17:39< Hulavuta> If a Necromancer brings a Ghost from the dead, and then the Necromancer is killed, (and never returns as a Lich) does the Ghost stay in real life?
20100706 19:17:46< Hulavuta> I mean, the living world?
20100706 19:18:16< Blarumyrran> Unnheulu, https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2009-01/index.html
20100706 19:18:35-!- hagabaka [~quassel@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100706 19:18:49< Blarumyrran> The Decline And Fall Of The "1.7 design direction and the great Python shift"
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20100706 20:55:25< VurtualRuler98> Unneeded percents make my OCD cry
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20100706 21:50:48< Gambit> XNOR gates are really weird...
20100706 21:51:37< sevis> How so?
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20100706 21:52:07< sevis> They're simply equality gates or even gates, depending how you look at it.
20100706 21:52:15< Gambit> Thier name is far more complex than the logic they preform.
20100706 21:53:10< Gambit> I guess I should have said "the name XNOR is really weird"
20100706 21:53:40< sevis> True, I'd personally choose for NXOR.
20100706 21:53:55< VurtualRuler98> Oh hye
20100706 21:54:00< VurtualRuler98> People talking about XNOR
20100706 21:54:05< VurtualRuler98> I remember using NOR gates to create an XNOR
20100706 21:54:20< VurtualRuler98> goood times
20100706 21:55:15-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100706 21:56:23< [Relic]> Hello :)
20100706 21:58:21< VurtualRuler98> The apollo guidance computer was made entirely using NORs
20100706 21:58:25< VurtualRuler98> crazy stuff
20100706 21:59:01-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-178-176.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth
20100706 21:59:19< VurtualRuler98> also XNOR sounds better than NXOR
20100706 21:59:35< VurtualRuler98> "EXNOR" or "ENZOR"
20100706 21:59:50< Gambit> VurtualRuler98: but it's XOR+NOT
20100706 21:59:58< VurtualRuler98> The former, awesome death robot and logic gate, the latter, a male enhancement pill and logic gate
20100706 22:00:01< Gambit> NXOR does look better.
20100706 22:00:19< VurtualRuler98> is there an exclusive nor?
20100706 22:00:44< VurtualRuler98> Not actually logically possible? Okay then.
20100706 22:01:04-!- PeterPorty [~Pete@pc-193-248-120-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100706 22:01:11< VurtualRuler98> anyways I'm gonna go to bed before more Deus Ex music plays in my head.
20100706 22:01:17< PeterPorty> Hello guys
20100706 22:01:33< PeterPorty> DEUS EX!
20100706 22:01:33< PeterPorty> I luv that game...
20100706 22:01:43< PeterPorty> night, VurtualRuler98 
20100706 22:01:49< PeterPorty> sleep well
20100706 22:02:05< VurtualRuler98> So many plot path options it makes me dizzy man
20100706 22:02:25< PeterPorty> r u kiddin me?
20100706 22:02:35< VurtualRuler98> Including, apparently, not dying
20100706 22:02:36< PeterPorty> it is like... the best game ever.
20100706 22:02:43< PeterPorty> wth?
20100706 22:03:04< VurtualRuler98> it has more than one ending, correct?
20100706 22:03:09< PeterPorty> 3
20100706 22:03:20< VurtualRuler98> Including at one point, I was faced with a huge swarm of enemies
20100706 22:03:26< PeterPorty> but you don't have to play it all again to see them
20100706 22:03:39< PeterPorty> just save really near the end...
20100706 22:03:47< VurtualRuler98> I hadn't bought the flamethrower napalm tank available earlier, so I had no weapon to help.
20100706 22:04:03< VurtualRuler98> had I had it, I could've set everyone on fire.
20100706 22:04:10< VurtualRuler98> Fire makes people burn!
20100706 22:04:16< PeterPorty> I never used the flamethrower.
20100706 22:04:26< VurtualRuler98> what are yo utalking about
20100706 22:04:33< VurtualRuler98> one shot can temporarily disable a huge group of enemies
20100706 22:04:33< PeterPorty> at what point in the game are you?
20100706 22:04:42< VurtualRuler98> there was an ambush.
20100706 22:04:48< PeterPorty> (and what number of the game are we talking about?)
20100706 22:04:54< VurtualRuler98> which I failed at not being got
20100706 22:04:58< VurtualRuler98> the first obviously
20100706 22:05:00< VurtualRuler98> as there's only one
20100706 22:05:52< PeterPorty> dude, you are talking about deus ex 1?
20100706 22:06:02< VurtualRuler98> The first one, not "invisible war"
20100706 22:06:09< VurtualRuler98> because invisible war is invisible, and thusly doesn't exist.
20100706 22:06:33< VurtualRuler98> anyways no plot spoilers and I need some sleep :(
20100706 22:06:54< PeterPorty> damn, no internet... strangely, I am still on irc....
20100706 22:07:06< VurtualRuler98> DNS
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20100706 22:08:55< PetePorty> back
20100706 22:09:03< PetePorty> hi shadowmaster!
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20100706 22:12:32< Unnheulu> Hallo
20100706 22:12:41< Unnheulu> shadowmaster, why'd'ya lock that thread?
20100706 22:13:20< PeterPorty> hi unn, what thread?
20100706 22:13:29< Unnheulu> In OT
20100706 22:14:03< PeterPorty> WHICK ONE!?
20100706 22:14:08< PeterPorty> (name please)
20100706 22:14:21< Unnheulu> Some religion one
20100706 22:14:54< PeterPorty> ...
20100706 22:15:01< PeterPorty> thanks, really helpful.
20100706 22:15:20< Unnheulu> SHUTUP I'M TRYING TO THINK!
20100706 22:15:27< Unnheulu> If you want to know why ask in #amazolia
20100706 22:15:39< PeterPorty> u have a channel?
20100706 22:15:46< Unnheulu> Anyone does
20100706 22:15:51< Unnheulu> Doesn't mean anyone uses it
20100706 22:16:04< Unnheulu> I don't really want anyone other than testers to use it till I release
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20100706 22:24:01< Unnheulu> Back
20100706 22:26:23< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: do you really need to know, or was that just a rhetorical question?
20100706 22:26:38< Unnheulu> shadowmaster, my point is, there always used to be those threads
20100706 22:26:42< Unnheulu> Like 50 pages of them
20100706 22:26:47< Unnheulu> So yeah, I'm just curious
20100706 22:26:58< shadowmaster> moderation practices are not in your scope
20100706 22:26:58 * Unnheulu goes back to writing some stuff for his game
20100706 22:27:03< Unnheulu> Kay
20100706 22:27:14< Unnheulu> You would've thought python would have a function for converting "/" to "."
20100706 22:27:38< shadowmaster> get your facts right, too
20100706 22:27:47< Unnheulu> ...it does?
20100706 22:27:57 * Unnheulu just went and checked all the docs
20100706 22:28:35< shadowmaster> I wasn't talking about Python.
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20100706 22:28:46< Unnheulu> Erm
20100706 22:28:54< Unnheulu> Your going on still about the threads stuff?
20100706 22:29:04< Unnheulu> I assumed that was over after the message before that
20100706 22:29:05< shadowmaster> no
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20100706 22:29:35< shadowmaster> idiot
20100706 22:29:45< PeterPorty> lol
20100706 22:30:20< shadowmaster> I quit that discussion right after saying "get your facts right, too"
20100706 22:30:34< shadowmaster> PeterPorty: what's so funny?
20100706 22:30:52< PeterPorty> you called him an idiot.
20100706 22:30:54< PeterPorty> :D
20100706 22:31:13< shadowmaster> and why is that funny to you?
20100706 22:31:31< PeterPorty> cuz I feel the same way.
20100706 22:31:45< shadowmaster> that's not supposed to be funny.
20100706 22:32:03< PeterPorty> well, it is.
20100706 22:32:11< shadowmaster> no, it isn't.
20100706 22:32:54< PeterPorty> for me, it is.
20100706 22:34:43< shadowmaster> you should feel ashamed.
20100706 22:36:14< PeterPorty> I don't.
20100706 22:36:35< PeterPorty> maybe you are ashamed, and you are just trying to blame it on me.
20100706 22:36:56< shadowmaster> nope. I'm not the troll.
20100706 22:37:14< PeterPorty> Me either.
20100706 22:37:24< shadowmaster> yes, you are.
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20100706 22:37:43< PeterPorty> orly?
20100706 22:38:11-!- mthe [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100706 22:38:22< PeterPorty> you are the one calling my friends 'idiots' for no reason at all.
20100706 22:39:08< shadowmaster> I never called your friends (whoever they are) that.
20100706 22:39:16< shadowmaster> on the other hand, you are the one who takes everything as personal.
20100706 22:39:29< PeterPorty> <shadowmaster> idiot
20100706 22:39:38< shadowmaster> Unnheulu is a person.
20100706 22:39:40< shadowmaster> not a group.
20100706 22:39:47< PeterPorty> so?
20100706 22:39:58< shadowmaster> and I know him before you.
20100706 22:39:58< PeterPorty> he is 1 of the group.
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20100706 22:40:06< PeterPorty> so?
20100706 22:40:18< Unnheulu|Laptop> Hi PeterPorty
20100706 22:40:19< shadowmaster> he knows it's standard deal for him to say "you are too smart" and for me to reply with "idiot".
20100706 22:40:32< PeterPorty> Hi Unn.
20100706 22:41:00 * shadowmaster pets Unnheulu|Laptop 
20100706 22:41:05< PeterPorty> lol
20100706 22:41:38< PeterPorty> EoM
20100706 22:42:00< PeterPorty> where's shikadibot!?
20100706 22:42:00< Unnheulu|Laptop> PeterPorty, tbh if I were you I wouldn't get worked up over shadowmaster calling me an idiot
20100706 22:42:14< Unnheulu|Laptop> Otherwise you just get meta-trolling
20100706 22:42:51< PeterPorty> Netherlands!
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20100706 22:45:01< PeterPorty> yay!
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20100706 22:48:48< PeterPorty> elvish_sovereign, why are you all alone in #amazolia?
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 07 00:00:02 2010