--- Log opened Sun Jul 18 00:00:19 2010
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20100718 03:58:17< elvish_sovereign> Hey King_Elendil 
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20100718 03:59:01< King_Elendil> hey buddy :)
20100718 03:59:07< elvish_sovereign> xD
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20100718 03:59:18< elvish_sovereign> still working on the map, should be done soon though
20100718 03:59:23< Zerovirus> What map?
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20100718 04:00:51< King_Elendil> I'm going to help him code his goblin campaign, so he's making a map for my scenario project.
20100718 04:01:06< elvish_sovereign> xD
20100718 04:01:18< King_Elendil> Zero: Your sprites are so awesome!
20100718 04:01:47< King_Elendil> (I know you've heard it 1,000,000,000 times :p)
20100718 04:02:15< Zerovirus> Yeah I have
20100718 04:02:18< Zerovirus> Well not that much but yeah
20100718 04:02:22< King_Elendil> lol
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20100718 07:17:21< KayAteChef> I am getting lost trying to find the music files for wesnoth in Ubuntu.
20100718 07:17:27< KayAteChef> Does anyone know where they are?
20100718 07:20:53< shadowmaster> /usr/share/games/wesnoth/data/core/music
20100718 07:24:26< KayAteChef> you're a legend
20100718 07:24:30< KayAteChef> thanks mate
20100718 07:24:51< shadowmaster> np
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20100718 10:08:54< Ivanovic> moin
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20100718 16:42:09< e_s-iOS> Hi
20100718 16:42:31< hylje> hello
20100718 16:42:48< e_s-iOS> On hey
20100718 16:42:59< e_s-iOS> s/On/Oh/
20100718 16:43:47< Zerovirus> oh hi
20100718 16:43:56< e_s-iOS> Hi
20100718 16:44:45< e_s-iOS> UtBS!!!!
20100718 16:44:54< e_s-iOS> Muahaha
20100718 16:45:36< Tomsik> under the bullsh...
20100718 16:45:40< Tomsik> ? :p
20100718 16:46:19< hylje> bwahahahaha
20100718 16:47:33-!- SekoIdiootti_AFK is now known as SekoIdiootti
20100718 16:50:29< Zerovirus> Okay
20100718 16:50:33< Zerovirus> That was weird
20100718 16:51:56< e_s-iOS> Ahhh
20100718 16:56:00< Zerovirus> Oh I just remembered
20100718 16:56:06< Zerovirus> I never made that 72x72 naga hunter
20100718 16:56:08< Zerovirus> >.<
20100718 16:56:22< e_s-iOS> xD
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20100718 17:23:55< Zerovirus> I'm not sure what to do with the Headhunter
20100718 17:24:09< Zerovirus> So far all I've done is make him not look like a cheap rehash of the Thug
20100718 17:24:48< hylje> looks wise??
20100718 17:25:20< Zerovirus> Yeah pretty much
20100718 17:26:47< hylje> i would like to suggest a distinctive pose, though i've no background knowledge on the issue
20100718 17:27:43< Zerovirus> Maybe I'll do that with the Soulhunter
20100718 17:33:17< thespaceinvader> zero: post what ou have and let's take a look
20100718 17:34:41< Zerovirus> k
20100718 17:35:27< Zerovirus> Surprisingly I actually managed to compress it by a height of one pixel
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20100718 18:52:01< PetePorty> Hello
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20100718 18:52:13< PetePorty> Gambit, I'm getting MC infdev
20100718 18:52:46< Unnheulu> I would ask anyone if they want to play BfM with me, but I'm going cycling soon
20100718 18:56:11< Gambit> PetePorty: legally?
20100718 18:56:25< PetePorty> ....
20100718 18:56:30< Gambit> PetePorty: because he added boats on friday!
20100718 18:56:42< PetePorty> yay! I'm getting boats!
20100718 18:57:04 * Gambit asks about legalities once more
20100718 18:57:38 * PetePorty decides not to answer. Once more.
20100718 18:57:59-!- pyshee [~pishi_YAY@76.91.104.117] has joined #wesnoth
20100718 18:58:19< Gambit> PetePorty: Well you should know that the pirated version is still broken.
20100718 18:58:21< PetePorty> I'm installing stuff that I don't know wth are! I'm so exited...
20100718 18:58:30< PetePorty> Gambit, not this one.
20100718 18:58:34< Gambit> And is aproximately three weeks out of date.
20100718 18:58:45< PetePorty> It auto downloads the newest version
20100718 18:58:50< Gambit> Hehe
20100718 18:58:53< Gambit> that's the broken one.
20100718 18:58:59< PetePorty> no it isn't
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20100718 18:59:29< Gambit> PetePorty: If you say so. :)
20100718 18:59:38< PetePorty> there are 4, afaik, but this one is the only one that works
20100718 19:00:17< PetePorty> what does .Net Framework do?
20100718 19:00:20< PetePorty> do you know?
20100718 19:00:37< Gambit> No. I just know that it's essential for just about everything on windows these days.
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20100718 19:01:02< Gambit> PetePorty: But trust me. It's not going to work.
20100718 19:01:11-!- hystreni [~hystreni@ip9.trandansen.se] has joined #wesnoth
20100718 19:01:15 * Gambit goes to design the perfect I Told You So card
20100718 19:01:18< PetePorty> It will.
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20100718 19:02:00< PetePorty> ok, I need to restart... c ya.
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20100718 19:08:24< PetePorty> back
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20100718 19:14:01< Gambit> PetePorty: And?
20100718 19:14:17< PetePorty> dunno, tried indev first
20100718 19:14:18< Gambit> Did it A. Not work or B. Work but is a few weeks behind?
20100718 19:14:19< PetePorty> it works
20100718 19:14:33< PetePorty> now I'll try out infdev
20100718 19:14:43< PetePorty> in like... 3 minutes
20100718 19:14:53< Gambit> meh indev that's months behind
20100718 19:15:13< Gambit> That was obsolete before we even found this game.
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20100718 19:17:56< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: .NET framework allows you to run C#, J++, VisualBasic.NET, and even apparently some C++.
20100718 19:18:11< PetePorty> :) thx
20100718 19:18:15< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: Basically, it's necessary for Microsoft bastardizations of programming languages.'
20100718 19:18:31< Aethaeryn> E.g. take Java, change it a little, and the biggest difference is that it's no longer portable. Voila!
20100718 19:18:50< PetePorty> Lunch time, sorry. But thanks, Aethaeryn.
20100718 19:18:54< Aethaeryn> Yes, remove the "write once, run everywhere" bit behind a language whose design purpose was exactly that.
20100718 19:19:59< Aethaeryn> Gambit: C# is an incredibly popular language these days. That is why .NET is basically necessary.
20100718 19:20:14< Aethaeryn> You can even kinda run C# on Linux with Mono. A few popular things are written in C#.
20100718 19:21:36< Aethaeryn> c-sharp, btw.... thank Wikipedia for that. I kept calling it c-pound or c-number. ;-)
20100718 19:22:11< Aethaeryn> oooh, you could also call it c-hash
20100718 19:22:21-!- Zarel [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has left #wesnoth ["Leaving"]
20100718 19:23:24< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign
20100718 19:23:29< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_(programming_language)
20100718 19:23:59< Aethaeryn> So even though it's C#, it technically should be C♯
20100718 19:24:45< Aethaeryn> the main distinction being that the horizontal lines are straightly horizontal in # and slanting upward in ♯
20100718 19:24:52< Aethaeryn> You learn more every day thanks to Wikipedia.
20100718 19:25:21< Aethaeryn> (and yes, I was joking about calling it C-pound)
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20100718 19:28:34< Aethaeryn> Gambit: so do you know about C#?
20100718 19:31:45< Gambit> No and idc
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20100718 19:33:39< sevis> I do care. Aethaeryn, what can you tell about it?
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20100718 19:35:16< Aethaeryn> I think they used the name C# because C-- and C♭, both more accurate, weren't as catchy.
20100718 19:35:54< Tomsik> C sharp as sharp in music
20100718 19:36:15< Aethaeryn> I also think irssi v0.8.15 on Linux i686 rocks
20100718 19:36:23< Tomsik> C# sucks
20100718 19:36:31< Tomsik> C++ has a few uses
20100718 19:36:33< Tomsik> Java sucks
20100718 19:36:52< Aethaeryn> Clearly, Python is the most beautiful language.
20100718 19:37:07< Tomsik> Python is more or less okay
20100718 19:37:09< Aethaeryn> Because I own more Python books than books in other languages, especially in terms of raw page count. <_<
20100718 19:37:27< Tomsik> it has first-class functions at least
20100718 19:37:28< Aethaeryn> There's a book called "Learning Python" by O'Reilly that's seriously over 1000 pages... When I get through that, I'll know Python I think.
20100718 19:37:46< Aethaeryn> But there's another one called "Programming Python" that's also over 1000 pages that has a new revision coming out this fall
20100718 19:37:47< Valkier> It's probably about snakes.
20100718 19:37:50< Valkier> You got trolled.
20100718 19:37:51< Tomsik> one learns a language by reading code and writing code
20100718 19:37:54< Tomsik> not by reading a book
20100718 19:38:09< Aethaeryn> Right, because programming books don't have code in them.
20100718 19:38:17< Tomsik> If a book on a language is longer than 300 pages, it's bullshit
20100718 19:38:24< Aethaeryn> uh
20100718 19:38:35< Aethaeryn> I think all programming books are longer than 300 pages?
20100718 19:38:40< Aethaeryn> Except for things like "in a nutshell" stuff?
20100718 19:38:50< sevis> Tomsik: You have to ask yourself, is it the book or the language that's at fault?
20100718 19:39:19< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: Every single book on my programming shelf weighs in at more than 300 pages.
20100718 19:39:28< Aethaeryn> Though half or so are under 400, so maybe 400 is the line you should draw.
20100718 19:39:52< Tomsik> Well, I've got one book on programming
20100718 19:40:00< Aethaeryn> :o
20100718 19:40:01< Tomsik> for C++, when it was my first language
20100718 19:40:22< Tomsik> and it's about 300 pages of C and 150 pages of C++ or something
20100718 19:40:27< Tomsik> (three tomes)
20100718 19:40:32< Tomsik> (150 each)
20100718 19:41:06< Tomsik> Obviously, you need to learn things like most library functions yourself then, but you'll have to learn how to use other libraries too in future so
20100718 19:41:10< Aethaeryn> Wait... You judging programming books based on experience with one book is probably like me judging .NET and C# when I've been using Linux almost exclusively for probably about 4-5 years at the least.
20100718 19:41:12< Tomsik> the earlier you start the better
20100718 19:41:29< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: I've seen other books
20100718 19:41:44< Tomsik> They're just filling the book with useless stuff about philosophy of metamasturbation
20100718 19:42:15< Aethaeryn> I like philosophical, theoretical, and conceptual stuff, even if they're useless.
20100718 19:42:33< Aethaeryn> obviously a book is no substitute for actual experience....
20100718 19:42:47< Aethaeryn> but scant web documentation is also no substitute for a structural book
20100718 19:42:49< Tomsik> what is in these books is not conceptual stuff
20100718 19:43:04< Aethaeryn> most web documentation assumes you know everything about programming already...
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20100718 19:43:19< Aethaeryn> making it rather difficult to self-learn a concept without buying at least a handful of books at first
20100718 19:43:27< Tomsik> Well, no
20100718 19:43:31< Tomsik> You first read code
20100718 19:43:32< Tomsik> not write code
20100718 19:43:50< Tomsik> I started learning c++ basically by reading wesnoth code
20100718 19:43:56< Tomsik> I mean serious learning
20100718 19:44:01< hylje> books give you code and context for that code
20100718 19:44:12< Aethaeryn> Yes, and I started programming by basically teaching myself WML via guess-and-check.
20100718 19:44:13< Tomsik> not writing helloworlds and cellular automate
20100718 19:44:19< Aethaeryn> And before I knew it, I actually understood programming concepts.
20100718 19:44:26< hylje> up to you to relate the code to something you made or understand
20100718 19:44:32< Aethaeryn> It's kinda like that Logo language where you move a turtle around...
20100718 19:44:36< sevis> Tomsik: Just because that worked for you doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. I've never really read code at all.
20100718 19:44:41< Aethaeryn> except making stuff for Wesnoth is more fun than moving a turtle around
20100718 19:44:53< hylje> for wesnoth it's about moving a turtle
20100718 19:44:57< hylje> that has a melee and ranged attack
20100718 19:45:09< Aethaeryn> right.
20100718 19:45:25< Aethaeryn> If you were able to give the turtle weapons in Logo, I would've paid more attention to programming in middle school.
20100718 19:45:43< Tomsik> sevis: well, if you don't read code then how are you going to participate in any project?
20100718 19:45:50< Aethaeryn> Then your turtle can fight your neighbor's turtle (on the next computer over) and whoever coded the best turtle wins
20100718 19:46:03< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: there are games like that
20100718 19:46:23< Tomsik> coolest and most complex of them is redcode, where you write programs that fight programs in memory 
20100718 19:46:28< Tomsik> of a simulated computer
20100718 19:46:29< Aethaeryn> And we did not do those games in middle school computer class... <_<
20100718 19:46:45< Tomsik> because it's more difficult than it sounds Aethaeryn 
20100718 19:46:54< Aethaeryn> Meh.
20100718 19:46:57< sevis> Tomsik: No idea, I've been trying to figure it out for quite a while. Lately, I've just been writing my own stuff, and not looking to join anyone. I know that won't work eternally, but hopefully, by the time I need to cooperate, I'll be quite good at C++
20100718 19:47:03< Aethaeryn> School teaches to the lowest common denominator.
20100718 19:47:13< Aethaeryn> It doesn't get fun until hard college classes when they start dropping like flies.
20100718 19:47:25< Tomsik> sevis: that way you probably won't learn many useful techniques used by people
20100718 19:48:07< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: hah, flies, 180 people started with me, now there are about 80 left after a year
20100718 19:48:07< sevis> Tomsik: Perhaps, perhaps. What would you suggest reading, then?
20100718 19:48:11< Tomsik> sevis: code :p
20100718 19:48:37< Tomsik> which there are plenty of around places like sf.net
20100718 19:48:39< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: it seems like in hard classes, intsead of being a normal distribution, grades are more like a U
20100718 19:48:46< Aethaeryn> Just as many people fail as get As.
20100718 19:48:56< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: because some people are good and most isn't
20100718 19:49:32< Tomsik> though it's important to be aware that people use as many bad techniques as they use good ones
20100718 19:49:35< sevis> Heh, fair enough. It really is a motivation problem on my end, probably.
20100718 19:49:45< Aethaeryn> I really don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive.
20100718 19:49:52< Aethaeryn> Book-learning and reading-code-and-intuiting.
20100718 19:50:01< Tomsik> yeah, that's why low-code-high-effect languages are better :p
20100718 19:50:06< Aethaeryn> Just read through a book, and then spend the rest of the time reading through code and actually understanding a little more what they mean at first.
20100718 19:50:26< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: philosophy in these books won't help at all with this
20100718 19:50:37< hylje> let's reimplement wesnoth in lisp
20100718 19:50:46< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: You can't generalize that all books suck, though.
20100718 19:50:47< Tomsik> truth is that there is this little moment, where you know enough of syntax of a language
20100718 19:50:51< Aethaeryn> There are *so* many different styles.
20100718 19:50:58< Tomsik> that you don't need any more book, even though you don't know whole language yet
20100718 19:51:06< Aethaeryn> For a popular language, there's probably at least a dozen popular books.
20100718 19:51:23< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: And yeah, I kinda agree, though you always need a reference.
20100718 19:51:24< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: they are more of flavors than styles really
20100718 19:51:35< Tomsik> reference is your best friend, really
20100718 19:51:35< Aethaeryn> Like WML... I understand it now...
20100718 19:51:40< hylje> books usually aren't about syntax and practical use
20100718 19:51:45< Aethaeryn> But no way in hell could I code WML without the wiki.
20100718 19:51:48< Tomsik> and the earlier you get to understand how references work the better
20100718 19:51:50< hylje> they give a lot of background and reasoning behind the why
20100718 19:52:11< hylje> you learn the syntax and what works for your practical use case by coding
20100718 19:52:18< Tomsik> hylje: and it's better to see yourself why procedural programming has short legs 
20100718 19:52:33< Tomsik> and not just trust the author
20100718 19:55:07< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: why do you classify C, C++, Java, Python, and Perl all in one category?
20100718 19:55:15< Aethaeryn> I understand the first three being in one and the latter two being in another...
20100718 19:55:19< Tomsik> because they're all imperative languages
20100718 19:55:23< Aethaeryn> oh
20100718 19:55:27< Aethaeryn> as compared to Prolog and Lisp?
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20100718 19:55:29< Tomsik> python is a bit different
20100718 19:55:42< Tomsik> and I'm not sure about what perl actually is, besides gibberish code
20100718 19:55:57< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: as compared to logic and functional programming
20100718 19:56:01< Aethaeryn> Right
20100718 19:56:03< Tomsik> and all other paradigms
20100718 19:56:04< Aethaeryn> Like prolog <_<
20100718 19:56:14< Aethaeryn> functional?
20100718 19:56:17< Tomsik> there are more logic programming languages
20100718 19:56:55< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: ocaml and haskell are ones that are most popular I think
20100718 19:56:59< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: If I had to write a programming language, I'd probably write a logic programming language...
20100718 19:57:08< Aethaeryn> My brain's just wired that way...
20100718 19:57:20< Tomsik> Well, you can write many things in prolog
20100718 19:57:26< Tomsik> there's not enough libraries, but you can
20100718 19:57:33< Tomsik> but there are things like Curry
20100718 19:57:37< Tomsik> which are logic-functional
20100718 19:57:55< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: write a game in Prolog :-P
20100718 19:57:57< Tomsik> it's a lazy logic 
20100718 19:58:16< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: actually, we had one guy do that
20100718 19:58:30< Tomsik> it wasn't a very interesting game, but it was a game nontheless
20100718 19:58:35< Tomsik> with vector graphics
20100718 19:58:40< Aethaeryn> hahaha
20100718 19:58:46< Aethaeryn> of course it would use vector graphics
20100718 19:59:04< Tomsik> it's kind of painful to write a game in prolog
20100718 19:59:11< Tomsik> because it's not what the language was designed for
20100718 19:59:16< Aethaeryn> yeah
20100718 19:59:28< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: have you ever tried python?
20100718 19:59:39< Aethaeryn> It seems to be the new up-and-coming language, although it's actually somewhat old.
20100718 19:59:45< Tomsik> it was designed for things like AI where the complex control flow excels at
20100718 20:00:03< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: do you realize that lisp is like 30-40 years old?
20100718 20:00:11< Tomsik> I mean, it's 70ties or 80ties
20100718 20:00:17< Aethaeryn> lisp is one of the oldest
20100718 20:00:23< Aethaeryn> still in use
20100718 20:00:25< Tomsik> ML is from 80ties too I think
20100718 20:00:32< Aethaeryn> Yeah, but I was asking about python.
20100718 20:00:35< Tomsik> generally, good languages never die ;)
20100718 20:00:43< Aethaeryn> I was wondering if you've played around with it.
20100718 20:00:46< Tomsik> python is kind of painful 
20100718 20:00:51< Tomsik> because of dynamic typing
20100718 20:00:58< Aethaeryn> Idk, it seems to be good for simple computations.
20100718 20:01:02< Tomsik> and no, I haven't done a lot in it
20100718 20:01:08< Tomsik> just a simple console IRC bot
20100718 20:01:12< Aethaeryn> Thus far, I've coded things to automate plugging in numbers or w/e
20100718 20:01:28< Aethaeryn> in other words, instead of typing in an equation 20 times, just plug in the numbers into a python program.
20100718 20:01:35< Tomsik> it's that finding a bug in languages like that is pain in the ass
20100718 20:01:44< Aethaeryn> since it's simple and quick to write, it seems good for that kind of purpose
20100718 20:01:53< Tomsik> well, there's wxmaxima
20100718 20:02:32< Tomsik> and finding a bug in prolog is like trying to find a steel needle in haystack made of iron needles
20100718 20:02:50< hagabaka> why don't you like dynamic typing?
20100718 20:03:05< Aethaeryn> hagabaka: because he's a computer scientist. he has to be very opinionated.
20100718 20:03:06< Tomsik> because good static typing catches 95% of bugs
20100718 20:03:24< Tomsik> if a program in haskell compiles, it probably works
20100718 20:03:42< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: So what's your favorite language and why?
20100718 20:03:50< Tomsik> if program in dynamic typed language compiles, you're stil not sure if types are okay
20100718 20:03:58< Aethaeryn> COBOL, FORTRAN, or Assembly?
20100718 20:04:04< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: frankly? Depends on the purpose
20100718 20:04:14< Aethaeryn> 14:00:40 < Tomsik> generally, good languages never die ;)
20100718 20:04:19< Aethaeryn> Sorry, that's why I picked out those three.
20100718 20:04:25< Tomsik> for off-time coding it's haskell, because it has a great type system
20100718 20:04:31< Aethaeryn> COBOL will die with the heat death of the universe.
20100718 20:04:38< hylje> languages someone invested in never die before those some people die
20100718 20:04:39< hagabaka> I think you mean strong typing with implicit type checking
20100718 20:04:48< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: you have no sense of how implication works do you :p
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20100718 20:06:26< Tomsik> hagabaka: "good" :p
20100718 20:06:28< hagabaka> Java might give you static typing, but if it compiles there can still be type errors, such as "NullPointerError"
20100718 20:06:57< Aethaeryn> NullPointerError... I've seen that a lot in programs.
20100718 20:07:03< Aethaeryn> What the hell does that even mean?
20100718 20:07:22< hylje> trying to access the contents of a pointer to a bogus address
20100718 20:07:27< hagabaka> and working with type declaration itself can cause programmers to write buggy code
20100718 20:07:47< Aethaeryn> hagabaka: won't programmers always write buggy code?
20100718 20:07:54< Aethaeryn> otherwise bugzilla wouldn't exist.
20100718 20:08:07< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: well, there are things that some people are doing research on
20100718 20:08:29< hylje> bugzilla will always exist
20100718 20:08:37< Tomsik> which might end up in that we'll have tools to check if programs are buggy in some sense in sensible time
20100718 20:08:39< hagabaka> I think that's the appeal of "dynamic typing" languages, you don't need to declare types of variables, but you keep track of them yourself. But the other approach is type inference like Ocaml
20100718 20:08:39< hylje> if not for faults in code, but for faults in code design
20100718 20:09:03< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: Won't that require P=NP? :P
20100718 20:09:09< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: no, nested words
20100718 20:09:19< Tomsik> and visibly pushdown automata
20100718 20:09:46< Tomsik> hagabaka: I think it's the only sane approach, isn't it? :p
20100718 20:09:50< Aethaeryn> See... this is the real reason I might just go all the way to a PhD in comp sci if I'm good enough at the subject...
20100718 20:09:57< Aethaeryn> So I can understand Freenode channels 100%
20100718 20:10:29< hylje> it's the pre-requisite for trolling freenode
20100718 20:10:35< Aethaeryn> of course.
20100718 20:10:38< Tomsik> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~alur/nw.html
20100718 20:10:50< Aethaeryn> hylje: just go to #Ubuntu or ##Linux or another channel frequented with clueless newbies
20100718 20:11:05< Aethaeryn> And then troll them for not understanding some advanced architectural bit of the Linux kernel that could help them with their problem.
20100718 20:11:31< Aethaeryn> And then give them the solution in three command lines, though caution them that they only need to run 2, and that one of the three will wipe their HDD.
20100718 20:11:40< Tomsik> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~alur/Jacm09.pdf in particular
20100718 20:12:08< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hda
20100718 20:12:19< Aethaeryn> obsfucate that some more.
20100718 20:12:20< Tomsik> I wonder if it would work
20100718 20:12:28< hagabaka> Tomsik: the approach of dynamic typing languages is that you don't get a "compiler" to "guarantee" that the code is correct in terms of types, and the programmer does it manually. Compared to languages which require you to declare types, but fail to guarantee type safety, that is a better approach in my opinion
20100718 20:12:35< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: there's literally great poetry that can be done in masking harmful commands
20100718 20:12:45< Aethaeryn> I've seen some beautiful ones out there.
20100718 20:13:03< Tomsik> hagabaka: well, the last is just the most wrong approach
20100718 20:13:11< Tomsik> not making dynamic typing any better
20100718 20:13:23< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: like? :p
20100718 20:13:37< Tomsik> It's like saying that Osama is better than Hitler
20100718 20:14:03< hylje> hitler mentioned
20100718 20:14:10< hylje> thanks a lot, now we can't discuss anything
20100718 20:14:24< Gambit> wkuk sketch inbound
20100718 20:14:26< Gambit> sound the alarms!
20100718 20:14:49< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: http://ubuntuforums.org/announcement.php?f=331
20100718 20:15:02< hylje> i find the outlandish abbreviations wesnothers make upsetting
20100718 20:15:02< Gambit> kaboom: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe9R7jcMPp4
20100718 20:15:06< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: :(){:|:&};:
20100718 20:15:26< Aethaeryn> don't run that
20100718 20:15:31< Aethaeryn> that's on a list of things not to run
20100718 20:15:50< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: the one in hex code is kinda cool too
20100718 20:16:14< Tomsik> that's just a forkbomb
20100718 20:16:19< Tomsik> doesn't erase your hdd :(
20100718 20:16:24< Aethaeryn> There's some other good ones, probably on Wikipedia, but that was the first one that came to mind.
20100718 20:16:26< Gambit> hylje: Which outlandish abbreviations specifically?
20100718 20:16:34< Aethaeryn> And yeah, allt he other ones in the thread erase the HDD I think
20100718 20:16:38< hylje> like wkuk
20100718 20:16:40< Aethaeryn> e.g. python -c 'import os; os.system("".join([chr(ord(i)-1) for i in "sn!.sg!+"]))'
20100718 20:16:55< hagabaka> The more code you write, the more likely there will be bugs in it. So saving type declarations is a way to reduce bugs. Type inference is cool, but maybe it's hard to implement for imperative languages.
20100718 20:16:57< hylje> Aethaeryn: i like how he details what exactly one should not post
20100718 20:17:05< Gambit> hylje: That's not a wesnoth acronym.
20100718 20:17:18< hylje> are you denying you're a wesnoth-er
20100718 20:17:19< Tomsik> hagabaka: well, there's C++0x coming
20100718 20:17:20< Aethaeryn> hylje: Yes, that's why it's one of the best references out there. Ironic, eh? :-P
20100718 20:17:20< Gambit> It stands for "the Whitest Kids U Know"; my favorite sketch comedy group
20100718 20:17:35< Aethaeryn> Maybe not best in quality, but best in accessibility.
20100718 20:17:39< Aethaeryn> As in, it's a very public site
20100718 20:18:24< Aethaeryn> hylje: lurk more. Gambit links to a video of theirs on YouTube every 30 minutes.
20100718 20:18:31< Tomsik> hagabaka: but yeah, inference doesn't mix with weak typing
20100718 20:18:31< Aethaeryn> Whenever the context remotely relates.
20100718 20:18:35< Tomsik> and pointers
20100718 20:18:42< Gambit> In this case the only relation was the word hitler
20100718 20:19:04< hylje> hitler
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20100718 20:19:18< Gambit> Aethaeryn: And it's like 1-2 per day
20100718 20:19:22< Gambit> 1 on average
20100718 20:19:25< Gambit> some days I don't post any!
20100718 20:19:44< Aethaeryn> Gambit: LIES.
20100718 20:19:46< Aethaeryn> You know who else lied?
20100718 20:19:48< Aethaeryn> HITLER!
20100718 20:19:55< Gambit> And some days I switch it up a bit and go with Tim Minchin
20100718 20:19:56< hylje> Aethaeryn: i will not lurk more, indeed i shall shit your irc up by being such a obnoxious newbie
20100718 20:20:14< Aethaeryn> ok
20100718 20:20:19< Gambit> I admit it; I lol'd.
20100718 20:20:58< Aethaeryn> I think this is where a freenode discussion descends into who has the highest degree...
20100718 20:21:04< Aethaeryn> Tomsik probably wins.
20100718 20:21:52< hylje> whoever shoots the most obscure reference
20100718 20:21:58< hylje> that alienates everyone else
20100718 20:22:00< hylje> wins
20100718 20:22:05< Aethaeryn> Whoever can pull out the most technical vocabulary word.
20100718 20:22:20< Aethaeryn> automata
20100718 20:22:29< hylje> burgeois
20100718 20:22:56< Gambit> kleptomania
20100718 20:23:03< Tomsik> one word or many?
20100718 20:23:13< Gambit> hypoglycemia
20100718 20:23:35< Tomsik> uh, aren't these very popular words Gambit 
20100718 20:23:46< Gambit> Tomsik: That's what he wants you to think!
20100718 20:23:59< Gambit> philotic network :o
20100718 20:24:07< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: Btw, I was watching TV yesterday and one of the key elements of the plot or w/e was an "assembler".
20100718 20:24:26< Aethaeryn> So I kept wondering why they were so concerned about translating assembly into machine code.
20100718 20:24:47< Gambit> pequeninos
20100718 20:25:07< hylje> i wish. it's machine code.
20100718 20:25:13< Aethaeryn> In hindsight, I think they meant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembler_%28nanotechnology%29
20100718 20:25:14< Tomsik> homotopic, apparently spellchecker doesn't know this word
20100718 20:25:31< Tomsik> so it has to be obscure, I guess
20100718 20:25:49< hylje> http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Machine_Code (nsfw ads)
20100718 20:27:10< Aethaeryn> brb
20100718 20:27:13< Aethaeryn> ...or will I?
20100718 20:27:21< Gambit> [insert tvtrope]
20100718 20:27:37< Tomsik> and if you want some fancy words that actually make sense
20100718 20:27:43< Tomsik> second-order monadic logic
20100718 20:29:04< hylje> someone has been getting high on haskell
20100718 20:29:32< hylje> Gambit: i played a nes game called legend of the holy sword 3 with a brit the other day
20100718 20:29:46< hylje> sometimes plot just happens
20100718 20:30:08< hylje> need a plot coupon for this and then that and then a huge plot pileup
20100718 20:31:25< Tomsik> hylje: actually no, it's something else
20100718 20:31:41< Tomsik> it's related to program verification
20100718 20:31:47< Tomsik> like temporal logic
20100718 20:31:49< Gambit> hylje: I get high on bananas I'll have you know!
20100718 20:31:54< Gambit> (wkuk sketch inbound!)
20100718 20:31:59< Gambit> (actually related this time!)
20100718 20:32:14< Tomsik> it IS possible to get high on bananas
20100718 20:32:21< Tomsik> it was in some kind of anachist cookbook
20100718 20:32:23< Gambit> Tomsik: indeed
20100718 20:32:24< Tomsik> anarchist*
20100718 20:32:36< Tomsik> but you need 50kg of them and a lot of work
20100718 20:32:41< Gambit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rLCb1wRt-Q
20100718 20:32:55< Gambit> (some language)
20100718 20:34:55< Gambit> Whoa
20100718 20:34:57< Gambit> my comment on that video
20100718 20:35:00< Gambit> is the highest rated
20100718 20:35:02< Gambit> sweet!
20100718 20:36:32< hylje> you're boasting on youtube comment quality
20100718 20:37:30< Gambit> hylje: No. It wasn't quality at all.
20100718 20:38:12< Tomsik> there's new season of it crowd
20100718 20:38:47< Gambit> Yessss
20100718 20:39:00< hylje> there's no new season of wakfu yet
20100718 20:39:32< Tomsik> truth is that it's way easier to get high from a right cough medicine than a banana :p
20100718 20:41:35< Gambit> Never take cough syrup and mix it up with iodine and lye.
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20100718 21:47:21< Hulavuta> Hi
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20100718 22:06:02< e_s-iOS> Wesbot seen artisticdude
20100718 22:06:02< wesbot> e_s-iOS: The person with the nick artisticdude last spoke 4d 3h ago.  3d 2h ago they left with the message: Client Quit
20100718 22:06:08< e_s-iOS> Whoa
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20100718 22:08:32< Hulavuta> Lulz
20100718 22:08:48< e_s-iOS> xD
20100718 22:08:59< e_s-iOS> He haste been on irc for a bit now
20100718 22:09:14< e_s-iOS> s/haste/hasn't/
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20100718 22:16:46< Hulavuta> He used to not be on a lot
20100718 22:16:54< Hulavuta> So it doesn't surprise me
20100718 22:16:54< e_s-iOS> Yeah I know
20100718 22:17:01< Hulavuta> I'm going to go watch TV now
20100718 22:17:20< e_s-iOS> Ok
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20100718 23:23:57< elvish_sovereign> hmmm
20100718 23:24:28< elvish_sovereign> in EI, Weldyn under Attack, should I go for the N, W, or E?
20100718 23:26:24-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...]
20100718 23:27:30< Valkier> Go for the eyes, Boo. Go for the eyes! RARGH!
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20100718 23:32:57< elvish_sovereign> wha?
20100718 23:33:27< elvish_sovereign> I've abandoned the city for the north
20100718 23:33:28< elvish_sovereign> lol
20100718 23:34:31-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100718 23:35:30< [Relic]> Hello :)
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--- Log closed Mon Jul 19 00:00:26 2010