--- Log opened Sun Aug 01 00:00:14 2010
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20100801 00:15:39< zookeeper> eleazar_, regarding the lit overlay: AFAICT you can't really replace that with the ToD overlays alone, since the lit overlay has these specific rays of light from above, which don't sound like something the ToD overlays should have..
20100801 00:16:05< gabba> Upthorn: your popup at the beginning of the test scenario is still costing me two clicks every time I test...
20100801 00:16:06< eleazar_> well, i'd keep the rays as the overlay
20100801 00:16:23< Upthorn> gabba: update, it's not there anymore.
20100801 00:16:32< gabba> Upthorn: ok, thanks
20100801 00:16:33< eleazar_> zookeeper: ... but brightening the base tiles would be left to the color-shifting engine
20100801 00:16:42< eleazar_> ideally of course
20100801 00:16:58< Upthorn> @log 44985
20100801 00:17:24< Upthorn> err
20100801 00:17:24< zookeeper> eleazar_, ok, sure
20100801 00:17:28< Upthorn> wesbot: log 44985
20100801 00:17:29< wesbot> upthorn * r44985 : moved persistence demo trigger to a labeled hex, instead of side 1 turn 1.
20100801 00:17:32< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=44985
20100801 00:17:42< zookeeper> it's just that you said that we could maybe get rid of the whole overlay ;)
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20100801 00:32:54< eleazar_> clariified post
20100801 00:46:32< CIA-87> ai0867 * r45032 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/ (1033 files in 24 dirs): 
20100801 00:46:32< CIA-87> Ran optipng:
20100801 00:46:32< CIA-87> Original size: 9086 KiB on 1033 files
20100801 00:46:32< CIA-87> Optimized size: 6774 KiB
20100801 00:46:32< CIA-87> Total saving: 2312 KiB = 25% decrease
20100801 00:48:24< CIA-87> gabba * r45033 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (highlight_visitor.cpp validate_visitor.cpp): Whiteboard: corrected the text of some todos and changed them to doxygen style.
20100801 00:59:44< gabba> @all: I need advice on something. Right now I have my side_actions object owned by team, but side_actions has the need of knowing the index of it owning team in the teams vector. I can't find an elegant way to do this...
20100801 01:01:47< gabba> Also, another general question: is there any objection to me added a unit::set_side() method?
20100801 01:06:23< Crab_> gabba: no, no objections, since you can do that already via WML - store/change side/unstore 
20100801 01:06:39< Crab_> gabba: so, 'units changing sides' don't break the world )
20100801 01:06:45< Crab_> gabba: why you need that ?
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20100801 01:07:13< gabba> Crab_: I'm creating temp units to insert into my future unit map, and they default at side 1
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20100801 01:08:39< Crab_> ok
20100801 01:08:49< gabba> Crab_: so I gather I can add a method in unit like this: void set_side(int side) {side_ = side;} ?
20100801 01:09:21< Crab_> gabba: yes
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20100801 01:14:15< gabba> Crab_: about my other problem, I'm thinking of telling side_actions which is their corresponding team index in team_builder::new_team() [gamestatus.cpp:783], right after the team gets added to the teams vector. But can I trust that the team index for this particular team won't change afterwards, until the team is destroyed?
20100801 01:14:57< Crab_> team index won't change afterwards.
20100801 01:16:00< gabba> thanks
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20100801 01:31:19< CIA-87> espreon * r45034 /trunk/data/core/images/portraits/orcs/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 
20100801 01:31:19< CIA-87> Ran wesnoth-optipng:
20100801 01:31:19< CIA-87> Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size):
20100801 01:31:19< CIA-87> Original size: 1390 KiB on 7 files
20100801 01:31:19< CIA-87> Optimized size: 1324 KiB
20100801 01:31:19< CIA-87> Total saving: 65 KiB = 4% decrease
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20100801 01:35:27< alink> gabba: the side parameter in unit ctor is not enough ?
20100801 01:37:49< gabba> alink: wait, there IS a side parameter... I guess I just got confused here.
20100801 01:38:13< alink> yes, and you already use it ;)
20100801 01:38:41< gabba> :-/
20100801 01:39:45< alink> in general, always check how the game do it in other places. In this case, how side 2 recruit units
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20100801 03:42:26< CIA-87> gabba * r45035 /trunk/src/unit.hpp: Added set_side() method to unit.
20100801 03:42:34< CIA-87> gabba * r45036 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
20100801 03:42:35< CIA-87> Whiteboard: add a team_index_ variable to side_actions, and set it right after their owning team is inserted into the teams vector.
20100801 03:42:35< CIA-87> Use said team index when validating actions.
20100801 03:42:39< CIA-87> gabba * r45037 /trunk/src/whiteboard/side_actions.cpp: Whiteboard: Adjust condition to allow bumping action up/down in the queue to work for recruits as well.
20100801 03:42:46< CIA-87> gabba * r45038 /trunk/src/whiteboard/action.hpp: Whiteboard: Remove useless 'friend' class relationships.
20100801 03:42:50< CIA-87> gabba * r45039 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (9 files): Whiteboard: added new team_index constructor parameter to action, as well as a getter method.
20100801 03:42:59< CIA-87> gabba * r45040 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (manager.cpp recruit.cpp side_actions.cpp): Whiteboard: several checks for empty planned actions for efficiency; improved logging.
20100801 03:43:02< CIA-87> gabba * r45041 /trunk/src/mouse_events.cpp: Whiteboard: replace a direct call to set_planned_unit_map by a scoped object.
20100801 03:43:08< CIA-87> gabba * r45042 /trunk/src/whiteboard/manager.cpp: Whiteboard: remove useless building of future unit map.
20100801 03:43:14< CIA-87> gabba * r45043 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: Whiteboard: use pathfind map for show_enemy_moves
20100801 03:43:19< CIA-87> gabba * r45044 /trunk/src/mouse_events.cpp: Whiteboard: reorganize planned maps scopes. Don't allow planning a move toward a location that has a planned recruit.
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20100801 04:40:21< alink> gabba: hum, sry to do this again, but there was already a set_side() in unit.hpp few lines below your new one 
20100801 04:40:24< alink> void set_side(unsigned int new_side) { side_ = new_side; }
20100801 04:41:50< gabba> alink: oops, I wanted to erase that commit from my git history. Well, upcoming revert.
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20100801 04:46:13< CIA-87> gabba * r45045 /trunk/src/unit.hpp: Revert r45035 that didn't make sense.
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20100801 05:01:57< CIA-87> eleazar * r45046 /trunk/ (changelog data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg): Moderately functional blend transition between the previously extremely ugly mountains next to chasm.
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20100801 05:48:31< Espreon> Oh shit!
20100801 05:48:38< CIA-87> espreon * r45047 /trunk/ (data/core/terrain.cfg utils/pofix.py): Gave the wooden floor a proper translatable name.
20100801 05:51:21< CIA-87> espreon * r45048 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: Reverted part of r45047.
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20100801 06:08:48-!- shadowmaster changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 131 bugs, 283 feature requests, 13 patches | Wesnoth Licensing Meeting on #wesnoth-meeting at 16:00 GMT on Sunday August 1st | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100801 06:24:04< CIA-87> gabba * r45049 /trunk/src/whiteboard/move.cpp: Whiteboard/move: refer to the correct team (the owner of the move).
20100801 06:24:11< CIA-87> gabba * r45050 /trunk/src/whiteboard/action.hpp: Whiteboard/action: add new side_number() method.
20100801 06:24:17< CIA-87> gabba * r45051 /trunk/src/whiteboard/attack.cpp: Whiteboard/attack: use proper side reference.
20100801 06:24:21< CIA-87> gabba * r45052 /trunk/src/ (unit.cpp unit.hpp): Made global function get_visible_unit() return a non-const pointer.
20100801 06:24:28< CIA-87> gabba * r45053 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (manager.cpp manager.hpp move.cpp): Whiteboard/manager: made several methods static. Use global method get_visible_unit() to search for units instead of rolling my own, and other changes to unit finder methods.
20100801 06:24:33< CIA-87> gabba * r45054 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: Whiteboard/manager: another change to help message.
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20100801 08:42:59< CIA-87> espreon * r45055 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: Fixed broken image paths.
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20100801 10:19:13< Ivanovic> mon
20100801 10:19:19< Ivanovic> s/mon/moin
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20100801 10:48:05< CIA-87> silene * r45056 /trunk/src/lua/README: Added description of all the relevant commits.
20100801 11:14:45< CIA-87> fendrin * r45057 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/hunter/ (Chaser.cfg Chaser.cfg Harrier.cfg Harrier2.cfg): UtBS: Corrected a twisted filename. Half on the way, don't know how to do it at once properly.
20100801 11:16:19< CIA-87> fendrin * r45058 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/hunter/ (Harrier.cfg Harrier2.cfg): UtBS: Second half of the renaming procedure. See r45057.
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20100801 12:15:02< Noyga> hi people
20100801 12:15:55< fendrin> hi Noyga
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20100801 12:43:36< boucman> hey all
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20100801 12:50:44< CIA-87> gabba * r45060 /trunk/src/whiteboard/manager.hpp: Whiteboard: comments.
20100801 12:50:50< CIA-87> gabba * r45059 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (move.cpp side_actions.cpp): Whiteboard: handle end_turn_exception when executing a move or attack, and more generally any action.
20100801 12:50:50< CIA-87> gabba * r45061 /trunk/src/mouse_events.cpp: Whiteboard: fix small regression in mouse code (unit flickering back and forth between start and dest of move)
20100801 12:52:13< gabba> see you all later today
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20100801 13:15:29< mordante> servus
20100801 13:18:36< mordante> silene, I've temporary disabled the unit tests broken with the new network code so they should run properly again
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20100801 13:36:47< timotei> morning
20100801 13:37:01< mordante> hi timotei 
20100801 13:37:13< timotei> hi mordante :)
20100801 13:40:17< mordante> silene, any idea why r44986 fails to compile with stackprotector enabled? http://paste.debian.net/81959/
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20100801 13:53:29< mordante> fendrin, please don't add empty translatable strings it breaks the pot update
20100801 13:54:04< CIA-87> mordante * r45062 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Fix a compiler warning.
20100801 13:54:08< CIA-87> mordante * r45063 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/sanddancer/ (Sand_Sneaker.cfg Sand_Stalker.cfg): Don't add translatable empty strings.
20100801 14:04:11< Ivanovic> hmm, wasn't there even a check for this in wmllint?
20100801 14:04:30< Ivanovic> no idea how to use it though...
20100801 14:04:52< Ivanovic> and yes, those "empty but marked translateabele" do fuck things up
20100801 14:05:17< mordante> Ivanovic, I know I fixed some yesterday and after the new ones were added
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20100801 14:06:15< mordante> I did some pot-updates yesterday ;-)
20100801 14:07:27< mordante> and I didn't test with wmllint so no idea whether it has a test for it
20100801 14:11:26< timotei> wtf happened to vs. it compiles everything everytime I try compile it:
20100801 14:12:37< Ivanovic> that is the output from running it in the utbs folder: http://pastebin.com/jcUL4AKG
20100801 14:12:43< Ivanovic> fendrin: you really should have a look at this...
20100801 14:13:58< mordante> some of the translation marks are the ones I just removed ;-)
20100801 14:14:05< mordante> timotei, ?
20100801 14:16:20< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45064 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/ (6 files in 3 dirs): ran wmllint on utbs: fixed some broken tags, removed some translation markers from empty strings, ...
20100801 14:17:04< Ivanovic> mordante: no, those are additional ones
20100801 14:20:10< mordante> Ivanovic, no they're not ""units/quenoth/sanddancer/Sand_Sneaker.cfg", line 35: description needs translation mark" lost its marker in r45063
20100801 14:20:48< mordante> it needs both a marker and a sane description
20100801 14:21:40< CIA-87> mordante * r45065 /trunk/src/whiteboard/action.hpp: Make a member function a const member function.
20100801 14:25:39< Ivanovic> mordante: give me a minuite to sort through this mess
20100801 14:25:44< Ivanovic> esr: one bug in wmllint
20100801 14:25:57< Ivanovic> esr: it wants to add a translation marker to an empty string if there are macros afterwards
20100801 14:26:02< Ivanovic> please to check for this
20100801 14:27:42< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45066 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/ (10 files in 3 dirs): add special notes, remove useless translation markers (why would you want to translate a plain '.'?!? probably some "wmllint screws up here"-workaround)
20100801 14:29:16< Ivanovic> esr: those are false positives, all of them are cases where the string is empty and thus musn't get a marker: http://pastebin.com/RPJfAfxq
20100801 14:31:48< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45067 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/sanddancer/ (Sand_Sneaker.cfg Sand_Stalker.cfg): remove some useless markers, most likely introduced by a screwed up wmllint
20100801 14:37:53< Ivanovic> esr: submitted a bug report about this
20100801 14:38:01< Ivanovic> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16343
20100801 14:38:07< esr> Ivanovic: Thanks.
20100801 14:38:23< Ivanovic> marked it important because it has potential to fuck up pot-updates (and it does so!)
20100801 14:38:55< esr> Ivanovic: I will try to gert to it this evening. 
20100801 14:39:15< Ivanovic> okay
20100801 14:39:22< Ivanovic> most likely it is a one line change in the script
20100801 14:40:36< esr> Ivanovic: Agreed.
20100801 14:44:04< timotei> morning fendrin 
20100801 14:48:08< Ivanovic> mordante: currently wml should not include and empty translateable strings, rechecked using grep
20100801 14:49:03< mordante> Ivanovic, I know I also used grep this morning to find all places fendrin added them
20100801 14:54:09< AI0867> silene: are game::error and game::exception meant as baseclasses for all things thrown?
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20100801 15:11:19< silene> mordante: no idea, and the code doesn't even point to something in the source; so except for a compiler bug, i don't have clue
20100801 15:12:29< silene> AI0867: ideally yes (though it only matters for exceptions that may occur while wml is running); i tried to convert as many as possible, but i may have missed some
20100801 15:12:33< mordante> silene, me neither but it happened when you added the new game::error struct, but if you have no clue I'll disable the stackprotector warnings
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20100801 15:13:32< silene> mordante: didn't it already happen the day we tried to disable the dependency on boost serialization?
20100801 15:13:58< silene> (my memory is fuzzy, but i think it was the exact same error)
20100801 15:15:12< mordante> not sure I thought that was another error (but this is an error I enabled locally)
20100801 15:18:43< silene> mordante: yes, it was the same: "It interacts badly with stack protection,"
20100801 15:19:10< mordante> ok then it didn't occur with my boost version
20100801 15:19:19< mordante> since I still had it enabled
20100801 15:19:59< mordante> then I just disable it and build without stack protector
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20100801 15:22:54< silene> mordante: what do you mind it didn't occur? you are the one who reported that disabling boost serialization broke your builds
20100801 15:25:19< mordante> ?
20100801 15:25:44< silene> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?15459
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20100801 15:31:59< mordante> ah ok now I remember again
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20100801 15:42:50< Ivanovic> mordante: you saw my comment in the cmake patch that the revision number is not updated correctly anymore?
20100801 15:43:03< Ivanovic> maybe the stamp file has to be deleted and "force regenerated"?
20100801 15:43:20< Ivanovic> my setup is a build dir that i reuse every time, this dir is outside of the checkout
20100801 15:43:34< Ivanovic> https://gna.org/patch/?1727
20100801 15:44:01< Ivanovic> (yes, the comment applies to both, 1.8 and trunk)
20100801 15:44:20< Ivanovic> afk now till in 2h when the meeting takes place
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20100801 15:48:18< zookeeper> right, good that you said that, i'd probably have forgotten otherwise...
20100801 15:48:27< mordante> Ivanovic, yes only I have problems with compilation at the moment due to the stack protector
20100801 15:48:50< mordante> Ivanovic, so disabled that, but now ccache needs to refill its cache
20100801 15:49:28< mordante> Ivanovic, so I'll look at it later (also doing some other things at the moment)
20100801 16:04:30< alink> "Users compiling SVN sources should 'make clean' before 'make' after any tree update." <- that seems overkill
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20100801 16:06:45< mordante> alink, indeed overkill
20100801 16:07:05< mordante> off for dinner preparations
20100801 16:07:27< alink> ok I change that to something more sensible
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20100801 16:18:52< alink> wesbot: seen tuukkah
20100801 16:18:52< wesbot> alink: Sorry, I don't know of tuukkah.
20100801 16:20:31< alink> wesbot: seen tuukka
20100801 16:20:31< wesbot> alink: Sorry, I don't know of tuukka.
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20100801 17:12:07< shadowmaster> alink: in all my time using autotools for Wesnoth I haven't ever needed to do make clean before building.
20100801 17:12:37< shadowmaster> occasionally autogen.sh. Generally the recipe knows when to i.e. run automake to update dependencies after adding new source files.
20100801 17:12:52< alink> shadowmaster: yes me too, but I just cleaned the wiki about that
20100801 17:12:54< shadowmaster> then I switched to scons and there was much rejoice.
20100801 17:13:27< shadowmaster> except for the occasional need to run with --config=force 
20100801 17:14:45< timotei> mordante: 1>..\..\src\game.cpp(655) : warning C4101: 'e' : unreferenced local variable
20100801 17:14:45< timotei> 1>..\..\src\game.cpp(885) : warning C4101: 'e' : unreferenced local variable
20100801 17:14:45< timotei> 1>..\..\src\game.cpp(1396) : warning C4101: 'e' : unreferenced local variable
20100801 17:15:06< AI0867> silene: I have converted game_logic::formula_error to inherit from game::error. It's mostly confined to formula.cpp, but it's caught in game.cpp too
20100801 17:15:14< AI0867> not committed yet though
20100801 17:19:25< silene> AI0867: thanks, this one is important indeed, since it will most certainly occur in wml
20100801 17:20:23< silene> timotei: thanks, fixed
20100801 17:20:39< timotei> silene: yw
20100801 17:23:53< CIA-87> ai0867 * r45068 /trunk/src/ (formula.cpp formula.hpp game.cpp): Make game_logic::formula_error inherit from game::error
20100801 17:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 133 bugs, 284 feature requests, 13 patches | Wesnoth Licensing Meeting on #wesnoth-meeting at 16:00 GMT on Sunday August 1st | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100801 17:44:21< CIA-87> silene * r45069 /trunk/src/game.cpp: Fixed warning about unused local variable.
20100801 17:56:18< mordante> timotei, thanks, I guess silene has fixed them
20100801 17:56:27< timotei> yeah
20100801 18:01:01< Ivanovic> re
20100801 18:12:07< timotei> mordante: hehe, found the reason vs compiled everything from scratch everytime
20100801 18:12:20< timotei> mordante: I was just keeping 'ignore warning: xxx' adding in my project :))
20100801 18:13:03< mordante> ah ok
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20100801 18:29:22< Sapient> yo
20100801 18:29:46< Espreon> Hello Sapient.
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20100801 18:30:33< mordante> hi Sapient 
20100801 18:39:53< CIA-87> espreon * r45070 /trunk/src/lua/ (59 files): Set svn:eol-style on the Lua stuff.
20100801 18:43:21-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100801 18:43:31< timotei> hehe, gabba you made it in the end :P
20100801 18:43:37< gabba> yup
20100801 19:08:11< CIA-87> espreon * r45071 /trunk/utils/java/ (20 files in 11 dirs): Manually set some properties.
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20100801 19:17:19< anonymissimus> eleazar_: the old river ford looked better imo
20100801 19:17:37< anonymissimus> and transitions to road tiles are (still) wrong or bad
20100801 19:18:09< anonymissimus> but good job anyway :)
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20100801 19:20:50< timotei> huio...
20100801 19:20:52< timotei> fendrin: hey :D
20100801 19:21:02< Sapient> anonymissimus: that didn't sound like a very enthusiastic "good job" :pp
20100801 19:21:03< fendrin> timotei: hi
20100801 19:21:05< timotei> fendrin: just had my first autocomplete feature working: suggesting top tags:D
20100801 19:21:20< fendrin> timotei: cool, how do you do it?
20100801 19:21:28< anonymissimus> well but some of the new terrain is great
20100801 19:21:43< timotei> fendrin: hmm, how do I do the autocomplete?
20100801 19:21:54< anonymissimus> e.g. the snowy castle
20100801 19:22:02< timotei> fendrin: well, for root tags is 'simple' cause I don't have any parent tags
20100801 19:22:18< timotei> fendrin: for nested ones, I need to parse the parent tag for the current offset
20100801 19:22:29< timotei> fendrin: I'm sorry I can't make (yet) the grammar so good for wml
20100801 19:24:17< fendrin> timotei: offset is the depth of the wmltree? Or is it the position of the tag in a list on the current level?
20100801 19:24:23< timotei> no
20100801 19:24:26< timotei> offset in current document :P
20100801 19:24:47< timotei> I have informations only about current text/document
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20100801 19:49:52< fendrin> timotei: I assumed that. So what exactly is the offset? What does it count? What is the base it offsets against?
20100801 19:51:14< timotei> fendrin: offset is basically the index of the current character (where I invoke the CTRL+SPACE)
20100801 19:51:25< timotei> fendrin: offset of the character in the entire text
20100801 19:51:35< timotei> fendrin: starting from first character of the file
20100801 19:52:33< fendrin> Why do you need that?
20100801 19:53:17< timotei> I don't need that. That is what I get :P
20100801 19:53:30< timotei> but it's no problem. I have classes that help me find exaclty what things I need
20100801 19:53:37< timotei> I just need to bind it with my schema parser
20100801 19:54:15< Espreon> You children and your schemata...
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20100801 19:54:30< timotei> what?:P
20100801 19:56:41< Espreon> What?
20100801 19:57:26< timotei> Espreon: Espreon> You children and your schemata..
20100801 19:57:40< Espreon> timotei: What don't you comprehend?
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20100801 20:00:17< Espreon> timotei: "Schemata" is the plural form of "schema" and I was imitating an old guy that scorns young people for whatever reason.
20100801 20:01:52< Sapient> timotei: if you don't understand something Espreon says on IRC, it's best to assume that it was a really bad joke ;)
20100801 20:02:43 * Espreon chuckles
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20100801 20:05:32 * Sapient wonders if shadowmaster will put that in 'fortunes' now...
20100801 20:05:44< Espreon> He better.
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20100801 20:09:16< elias> what was the result of the license meeting btw?
20100801 20:09:25< Espreon> Why didn't you attend it?
20100801 20:09:36< timotei> :))
20100801 20:09:37< elias> just now read the mail about it :P
20100801 20:09:50< Espreon> Ic seo...
20100801 20:10:13< Gambit> Weren't there supposed to be logs?
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20100801 20:10:33< Sapient> I missed the first half of it, but basically it wasn't completely resolved and we will need to reconvene
20100801 20:10:52< Sapient> there will probably be an announcement to that effect on the dev ml
20100801 20:11:38< timotei> fendrin: ok, autocompletion for tags works
20100801 20:11:54< mordante> Gambit, rusty wants to write a summery 
20100801 20:12:17< timotei> fendrin: please remember, that I'm relying on the schema.cfg for that... so till the schema.cfg is not finished there won't be so many things to complete
20100801 20:12:50< fendrin> timotei: Understood. 
20100801 20:13:39< timotei> AI0867: hi
20100801 20:13:47< timotei> AI0867: any progress with the schema.cfg generation?:)
20100801 20:14:25< fendrin> timotei: I once talked to mordante autogenerating them from c++ code.
20100801 20:14:41< timotei> fendrin: well, that said AI0867 too iirc
20100801 20:16:43< Gambit> mordante: I think some would prefer actually seeing the conversation and not someone's interperetation of it.
20100801 20:18:22< mordante> Gambit, well we all can have a look before he makes them public
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20100801 20:25:11< AI0867> timotei: haven't gotten past reading the wikigrabber's source yet
20100801 20:25:22< timotei> AI0867: ok
20100801 20:30:39-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@99.4.146.0] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze]
20100801 20:35:12< Sapient> Gambit: we must consider for this discussion the competing merits of curiosity and privacy, not just curiosity
20100801 20:36:12< Gambit> Privacy? This affects a lot of people who didn't/couldn't attend.
20100801 20:36:49< eleazar_> Gambit: it might have if it actually accomplished anything
20100801 20:37:07< eleazar_> i'm not sure that it did
20100801 20:39:25< mordante> Gambit, therefore there will be a summery
20100801 20:40:33< eleazar_> on the other hand, i didn't notice anything that especially needed to be private.
20100801 20:40:38< Sapient> Gambit: nonetheless, there are some merits to private discussion which in this case was requested by some participants
20100801 20:41:09< Sapient> so the summary release was a compromise
20100801 20:41:20< mordante> eleazar_, not really except some jokes at the end, but being able to talk privately makes it easier to say what you think
20100801 20:41:48< mordante> especially since you don't know upfront how things will turn out
20100801 20:42:29< Sapient> right, and then you don't have to worry as much about unflatterring quotes appearing on LWN.net while you are phrasing your sentences ;)
20100801 20:42:36< eleazar_> yeah, i understand. mordante
20100801 20:42:59< mordante> exactly Sapient and especially if they're pulled from their context
20100801 20:43:46< Sapient> so you see Gambit, curiosity must be balanced against other concerns
20100801 20:44:00< Gambit> Ah sorry to bother you then. I hadn't considered the "people will be arseholes and quote us out of context" angle.
20100801 20:44:28< mordante> it's called getting nice headlines 
20100801 20:44:30< alink> [20:45:13] <Gambit> people will be arseholes
20100801 20:44:41< alink> ;-p
20100801 20:45:00< mordante> luckily he used "will be" and not "are" ;-)
20100801 20:45:28 * Gambit is an optimist
20100801 20:46:18< Sapient> this is exactly what I tried to explain to my sister when she asked me what is the advertisement jingle that annoys me most of all
20100801 20:47:07< Sapient> her curiosity must be balanced against my concerns ;)
20100801 20:47:40< alink> Sapient: ah, I get it now. Yes smart move (for both of you)
20100801 20:47:48< timotei> Sapient: do ninjas usually have sisters?:D That's so cute
20100801 20:48:01< timotei> (I was told you are a ninja )
20100801 20:48:11 * timotei respects++ ninjas
20100801 20:48:36 * Sapient ninja simle -->   :
20100801 20:48:48< Sapient> err, smile
20100801 20:50:29< Sapient> timotei: well, I'm more of an orcish assassin. But close enough ;)
20100801 20:50:54< CIA-87> espreon * r45072 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/guard/Striker.cfg: Renamed a weapon.
20100801 20:51:00< timotei> umm.. I don't like orcs... but yeah
20100801 20:51:49< alink> Sapient: didn't you have a ninja sword on some pic ?
20100801 20:51:57< timotei> alink: yes he does
20100801 20:52:05< timotei> alink: in the forums
20100801 20:52:18< Sapient> lol... I'm surprised how many people didn't notice that was a photoshop
20100801 20:52:36< CIA-87> upthorn * r45073 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/ (liblua.vcproj wesnoth.vcproj): C++ liblua now works in msvc native debug configurations.
20100801 20:52:37< timotei> Sapient: it doesn't matter that. You *had* a ninja sword
20100801 20:52:38< CIA-87> timotei * r45074 /trunk/utils/java/ (2 files in 2 dirs): eclipse plugin: initialize the the loggers at startup
20100801 20:52:49 * Sapient grins
20100801 20:53:01< Sapient> indeed. now I must ninja vanish
20100801 20:53:07< timotei> bye bye
20100801 20:53:07< timotei> :D
20100801 20:53:11< Sapient> have fun, cya later
20100801 20:53:13-!- Sapient [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]]
20100801 20:53:17< CIA-87> timotei * r45075 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml.ui/src/org/wesnoth/ui/WMLEditor.java: eclipse plugin: forgot one import
20100801 20:53:33< CIA-87> timotei * r45076 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml.ui/src/org/wesnoth/ui/ (3 files in 2 dirs): eclipse plugin: add autocompletion for tags
20100801 20:53:47< timotei> fendrin: ok, I'm out. (after finishing the commits)
20100801 20:53:49< CIA-87> timotei * r45077 /trunk/utils/java/ (9 files in 5 dirs): eclipse plugin: update the grammar to allow '-' in IDs
20100801 20:53:52-!- kitty_ [~kathrinpo@e180198171.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100801 20:54:06< CIA-87> timotei * r45078 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml.ui/src/org/wesnoth/ui/ (3 files in 2 dirs): eclipse plugin: move the DEBUG flag to the UIModule
20100801 20:54:17< fendrin> timotei: bye.
20100801 20:54:32< CIA-87> timotei * r45079 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml/src/org/wesnoth/validation/WMLJavaValidator.java: eclipse plugin: add validation for tag start/end name
20100801 20:54:42< CIA-87> timotei * r45080 /trunk/utils/java/ (4 files in 3 dirs): eclipse plugin:more validation for tag names
20100801 20:54:53< kitty_> hi!
20100801 20:54:58< kitty_> fendrin: any progress on the quenoth elves outline?
20100801 20:55:01< alink> Sapient: my memory was not fresh enough
20100801 20:55:02< Espreon> Hello kitty_!
20100801 20:55:05< mordante> hi kitty_ 
20100801 20:56:32< fendrin> kitty_: Yes, we are working on them right now.
20100801 20:56:35< zookeeper> hi kitty_
20100801 20:57:05< zookeeper> AFAICT there's still some things in there which are to be revised
20100801 20:57:16< Espreon> Indeed.
20100801 20:57:37< kitty_> what topics are still in discussion?
20100801 20:58:02< zookeeper> kitty_, i think everyone agreed that they ought to not use piercings after all
20100801 20:58:10< timotei> Espreon: weird. Newly added files already have eolstyle native:-/
20100801 20:58:16< kitty_> ah, what about tattoos?
20100801 20:58:16< alink> Sapient: just checked, it's decent photoshop, no wonder that I remember it wrong
20100801 20:58:40< Espreon> timotei: What are you using?
20100801 20:58:44< timotei> tortoisesvn
20100801 20:58:56< zookeeper> kitty_, i'm not sure what everyone thinks, but i think tattoos are fine as such, if they're not overdone in a maori style or something.
20100801 20:59:05< kitty_> of course
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20100801 20:59:38< zookeeper> kitty_, fluff-wise, i think elves would use tattoos to record personal events of importance and such, not as decoration as such
20100801 20:59:48< kitty_> why?
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20100801 21:00:15< CIA-87> espreon * r45081 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Got rid of useless 'ellipse' keys.
20100801 21:00:57< zookeeper> kitty_, well, partially for the same reason i think piercings don't fit: elves (they're still elves) like nature and all things natural, and their bodies are part of that...i don't think they'd pierce themselves for decoration (that's a pretty "unnatural" thing to do), and purely decorative tattoos are kinda similar IMO.
20100801 21:01:18< CIA-87> espreon * r45082 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/sanddancer/ (Sand_Assassin.cfg Sand_Sneaker.cfg Sand_Stalker.cfg): Got rid of even more 'ellipse' keys...
20100801 21:01:24< alink> zookeeper: I didn't followed the topic, but there is also the possibility of remporary henna body painting 
20100801 21:01:32< alink> *temporary
20100801 21:01:37< zookeeper> alink, true
20100801 21:02:31< kitty_> zookeeper: in that logic any decoration on weapons or clothing would be unnatural as well. than we would have a very military-like utility-orientated society. doesn't sound very elvish to me... i imagine them with a sense for beauty
20100801 21:04:07< fendrin> kitty_: I consider the quenoth elves pretty freaked out, having watched the worlds apocalypse. I would even by fine with heavy body mutalation like woodticks in the cheeks. 
20100801 21:04:56< kitty_> fendrin: piecings wouldn't be my favourite either. I'm just trying to save the chance to do some tattoos ;)
20100801 21:05:31< kitty_> fendrin: you say *they* watched the apocalypse. they personally? what timeframe are we talking?
20100801 21:05:57< alink> note that "decoration" can be useful to reflect social status or functions
20100801 21:06:10< fendrin> kitty_: A long, they did not watch it personally.
20100801 21:06:14< zookeeper> kitty_, but they need to compromise on weapons and clothing. they can't do without weapons and clothing, whereas they can do without bodily decoration. i'd think that they'd like to decorate their clothing and weapons because they like to make all the things that they have pretty...and i'd think elves would see the elvish body naturally pretty, and modifying it as tainting that.
20100801 21:07:07< fendrin> kitty_: I think you can feel free to use tattoos like you want to.
20100801 21:07:17< zookeeper> i mean, why would desert elves start using body modification for purely decorative purposes when the wood elves wouldn't?
20100801 21:07:18< kitty_> zookeeper: yes. but if weapons and clothing are a compromise against their antural state
20100801 21:07:25< zookeeper> but as i said, i don't mind tattoos as such
20100801 21:07:46< kitty_> fine :)
20100801 21:08:26< zookeeper> ...just that if their use of tattoos is explained textually anywhere, it should IMO explain that there's some actual use for them besides simple decoration
20100801 21:08:37< zookeeper> but it doesn't need to be explained anywhere, so...
20100801 21:08:45< alink> zookeeper: a possible reason could be that you expose more you body in warm environement ?
20100801 21:09:12< eleazar_> not in a desert
20100801 21:09:20< alink> eleazar_: ah, true
20100801 21:09:39< kitty_> zookeeper: i actually like your recording-past-events explanation. that would give me a nice excuse to do some calligraphy!
20100801 21:10:34< fendrin> kitty_, zookeeper: So every quenoth carries the history of his ancestors around on the skin?
20100801 21:10:34< eleazar_> *elf says pointing to his hand* "And this tatoo here commemorates getting a new tattoo on my hand!"
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20100801 21:10:56< fendrin> kitty_, zookeeper: Or is it a personal log book?
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20100801 21:11:33< zookeeper> kitty_, great :P one other thing that's probably still subject to change is some of the weaponry. i'm really really really trying to get that two-edged glaive thing out, and i think fendrin already agreed to add staff slings to some units.
20100801 21:12:02< kitty_> zookeeper: staff slings? 
20100801 21:12:04< zookeeper> fendrin, i don't really care which one it is
20100801 21:12:11< eleazar_> "two-edged" as pointed on both ends?
20100801 21:12:46< eleazar_> or like two separate paralle blades on one end?
20100801 21:12:49< fendrin> http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/article/538/538968/the-predators-arsenal-20040813062934280.jpg
20100801 21:12:55< fendrin> The weapon on the right.
20100801 21:13:03< kitty_> fendrin: hmm, I would imagine it as part of  kind of initiation rites and the like. formal events. and only important ones. rather personal achievments than family history.
20100801 21:13:04< fendrin> It seems fine to me for the quenoth elves.
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20100801 21:13:26< mordante> I'm off bye
20100801 21:13:27< eleazar_> a weapon that exists only in fantasy
20100801 21:13:35< alink> bye mordante
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20100801 21:13:59< fendrin> Yes, like the thunderstick.
20100801 21:14:20< alink> fendrin: is it from "Predator" ?
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20100801 21:15:33< zookeeper> kitty_, yeah, staff slings are nice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DjNjkhRgVk
20100801 21:16:17< eleazar_> i class that kind of weapon with bikini-armor as just silly and obviously impractical
20100801 21:16:24< eleazar_> that's my opinion FWIW
20100801 21:16:28< zookeeper> kitty_, fendrin didn't want (much) bows, so i figured that slings would be good, and a staff sling seems like a rather suitable type of sling for elves
20100801 21:17:06< kitty_> zookeeper: cool weapon! really impressive
20100801 21:17:25< fendrin> zookeeper: I wasn't able to convince Espreon with the sling stick.
20100801 21:17:33< zookeeper> fendrin, but thundersticks aren't fantasy, there's plenty of hand-used early firearms which are very similar
20100801 21:17:53< zookeeper> but there's practically nothing like a double-sided sword or polearm
20100801 21:18:25< zookeeper> also thundersticks wouldn't be silly anyway, whereas double-sided weapons are
20100801 21:18:54< zookeeper> if you want another opinion, then ask esr since he's done swordfighting too :p
20100801 21:19:11< alink> sling throw stones instead of wooden arrows make sense in a desert ;-) 
20100801 21:19:19< fendrin> zookeeper: esr has come up with having the lvl3 use a lirka.
20100801 21:19:30< Espreon> ... which I dislkike.
20100801 21:19:35< Espreon> *dislike
20100801 21:19:45< zookeeper> picture?
20100801 21:20:44< fendrin> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/thumb/5/5d/Lirpa.jpg/400px-Lirpa.jpg&imgrefurl=http://forums.insmod.org/lofiversion/index.php%3Ft3443-300.html&usg=__fDoepAvDmq0qJV3SUKGNGpI8DSI=&h=301&w=400&sz=34&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=8mpcF3z1EX7C9M:&tbnh=129&tbnw=175&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlirpa%26hl%3Den%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26biw%3D1471%26bih%3D1238%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=565&vpy=111&
20100801 21:20:45< fendrin> dur=890&hovh=195&hovw=259&tx=133&ty=108&ei=zRhUTN_KOMGB8ga-3NSCAw&page=1&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0
20100801 21:21:02< kitty_> wtf?
20100801 21:21:10< zookeeper> uh..
20100801 21:21:26< fendrin> :-)
20100801 21:21:34< zookeeper> i'm not sure i like seeing "startrek" in the url though ;)
20100801 21:21:44< fendrin> lol
20100801 21:21:49< zookeeper> got a clickable link?
20100801 21:22:07< kitty_> the vulcan thing?!
20100801 21:22:16 * Espreon does not approve of it.
20100801 21:22:41< kitty_> i believe it is lirpa not lirka...
20100801 21:22:57< alink> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lirpa#Lirpa
20100801 21:23:33< alink> http://images.google.be/images?q=Lirpa
20100801 21:24:23< zookeeper> ok, well, that's not entirely silly even if the bludgeoning part is horribly oversized in most pics
20100801 21:24:36< fendrin> http://tiny.cc/1h9w1
20100801 21:25:09< anonymissimus> eleazar_: around ?
20100801 21:25:41< eleazar_> I realized WINR, and all, but i do like the fact that wesnoth has avoided a lot (if not all) of the sillier fantasy tropes.  Having generally plausible weapons and armor is part of that.
20100801 21:25:45< eleazar_> anonymissimus: yes
20100801 21:26:00< anonymissimus> are you going to work on the river for terrain ?
20100801 21:26:05< anonymissimus> ford
20100801 21:26:33< eleazar_> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=446754&sid=ada622a143ae0506c1bf6f896319db13#p446754
20100801 21:26:37< zookeeper> the lirpa design seems ok if the bludgeoning part is of reasonable size and the head isn't quite that round... (but more like a bladed spearhead)
20100801 21:27:40< fendrin> kitty_: What about making it from wood/bones only?
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20100801 21:28:17< kitty_> fendrin: huh? making what from wood/bones only? the lirpa?
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20100801 21:29:45< alink> seems that a "sand monk" used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monk's_spade
20100801 21:30:51< anonymissimus> eleazar_: okay :)
20100801 21:30:53< alink> ah weapon-shovel could make sense after a dust storm
20100801 21:30:59< alink> *sand storm
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20100801 21:36:12< zookeeper> alink, right :P
20100801 21:44:57< kitty_> when we are talking about bolas we mean the contemporary south american version? http://www.flight-toys.com/bola/bola_argentina1.html
20100801 21:45:27< kitty_> not those badass ancient chinese ones http://www.flight-toys.com/bola/bola_china1.html or eskimo bird bolas?
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20100801 21:54:17< CIA-87> espreon * r45083 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/guard/ (Blade_Dancer.cfg Sentinel.cfg Sentry.cfg): Fixed some ids and names.
20100801 21:56:19-!- mode/#wesnoth-dev [+o shadowmaster] by ChanServ
20100801 21:56:27-!- mode/#wesnoth-dev [-o shadowmaster] by shadowmaster
20100801 22:02:37< CIA-87> upthorn * r45084 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Added two more persistence demonstration hotspots, relabeled the first, added to its effect, and explained it better.
20100801 22:02:41< fendrin> alink: That Monk's spade, is it a fantasy weapon? Or can it be used?
20100801 22:03:50< fendrin> kitty_: eskimo bird bolas?
20100801 22:05:02< kitty_> fendrin: tiny but more: http://www.flight-toys.com/bola/bola_eskimo2.jpg
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20100801 22:06:02< fendrin> kitty_: I like the Argentina version more.
20100801 22:06:36< kitty_> fendrin: yeah, and there are nicely decorated ones possible for the higher levels :)
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20100801 22:08:09< fendrin> kitty_: The mystic line will use clothes make out of silk.
20100801 22:08:40< fendrin> kitty_: That fits to the butterfly/moth wings.
20100801 22:09:26< kitty_> fendrin: good to know. you are really leaving nothing undefined. i really hope this won't get too rerstricting... but silk in itself is fine of course
20100801 22:10:27< fendrin> kitty_: zerovirus seemed to be looking forward to make pixelart for silk clothes.
20100801 22:10:43< alink> well, wikipedia says "lirpa is similar to the monk's spade" and yes some people seems to use it http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Monk's spade
20100801 22:10:59< alink> but I know nothing about weapons
20100801 22:11:26< kitty_> fendrin: silk is simple. just shiny-shiny
20100801 22:11:39< alink> fendrin: ^
20100801 22:11:55< fendrin> kitty_: So you would prefer another material?
20100801 22:12:47< kitty_> fendrin: as i just said: silk is just fine with me, fits the wings is a light material. i just wish/hope you don'T define every itsy-bitsy detail!
20100801 22:14:29< fendrin> kitty_: Well, I think that I must define that the Moon Shyde wears a very light but light absorbing silk suit, maybe in black colour since that absorb more UV light.
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20100801 22:15:15< fendrin> kitty_: The one of the Sun Sylph aims more for protecting against cold not light.
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20100801 22:17:26< kitty_> fendrin: you are really into world building, aren't you? that's interesting and important, but if you write down were every pocket sits on her suit it won't be much fun left for Zerovius and me...  just define her as wearing something black or whatever and zerovius and i will be able to work with it. 
20100801 22:18:03 * shadowmaster agrees with kitty_ 
20100801 22:19:32< shadowmaster> ironically, the artist I was working with demanded too many details from me. I preferred to allow him to use his imagination instead.
20100801 22:19:34< fendrin> kitty_: No problem. I am glad if I don't have to think about the concrete layout. Just black and light for the Moon Shyde. More warm clothes for the Sun Sylph.
20100801 22:19:45< shadowmaster> s/was/am/
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20100801 22:19:54< kitty_> fendrin: :D great!
20100801 22:20:43< fendrin> kitty_: zerovirus suggested to find inspiration in the wings of an Monarch butterfly for the Sun Sylph.
20100801 22:20:57< Espreon> Sigh...
20100801 22:20:59< fendrin> http://www.alainopina.com/webdev2/webdev%20activities/019a-monarch_butterfly.jpg
20100801 22:21:09< kitty_> fendrin: ok, will all that kind of stuff in you outline document, too?
20100801 22:21:09< Espreon> no...
20100801 22:22:39< fendrin> kitty_: Yes, everything will be there.
20100801 22:24:39< fendrin> zookeeper: Are you fine with that "Monk's spade" thing, since it actually seems not to be a fantasy weapon?
20100801 22:25:51< Espreon> fendrin: ... and that would replace the twin garsedge, right?
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20100801 22:30:13< alink> fendrin: note that I proposed that just because it looks less weird than that vulcain weapon
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20100801 22:33:31< fendrin> Espreon: I think it is going to replace the Twinax.
20100801 22:34:32< zookeeper> fendrin, the monk's spade is an ok weapon, if you can come up with some kind of a reasonable name for it
20100801 22:34:50< Espreon> fendrin: Can we please get rid of the twin garsedge?
20100801 22:35:00< zookeeper> but really there are a million different polearms, a lot of them would fit elves just fine
20100801 22:35:35< fendrin> Espreon: If we can include zookeeper's staff sling?
20100801 22:35:58 * Espreon glares at fendrin
20100801 22:36:11< zookeeper> http://www.juniorgeneral.org/donated/alex/medweapons.png
20100801 22:36:13< alink> maybe a spear with a sling on the other hand ;-p
20100801 22:36:15< zookeeper> just pick something which looks cool
20100801 22:36:22< zookeeper> alink, uegh
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20100801 22:36:43< zookeeper> i really don't see what's with the thing about having something on the other end of the weapon
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20100801 22:37:08< alink> zookeeper: yes me too, I just followed the inital thing
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20100801 22:39:40< zookeeper> i mean, conceptually it's fine if they have polearms which have a spike or a bludgeoning part on the other end, but it's not gonna show up on the sprites or portraits much anyway (unless they're made to be of a silly size...), so i don't see why it really matters.
20100801 22:41:09< fendrin> zookeeper: The glaive is already in as lvl1 weapon.
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20100801 22:42:55< fendrin> zookeeper: And it does matter because the weapon can to pierce or blade damage.
20100801 22:43:09< zookeeper> fendrin, btw, the double damage types should IMO be reserved for either lvl2 branch...the ...uh oh
20100801 22:43:19< esr> Is the meeting about licensing going to be on this channel or elsewhere?
20100801 22:43:34< Ke> see topic
20100801 22:43:43< zookeeper> esr, it was on another channel several hours ago
20100801 22:44:08< esr> Crap.  I missed it.  Do we have a resolution?
20100801 22:44:34< zookeeper> fendrin, the other end of the weapon doesn't really matter. if it's a polearm then you can either stab or slice using the same part of the weapon.
20100801 22:44:39< alink> yes stop using GMT, it confused everyone
20100801 22:44:42< fendrin> zookeeper: Fine, that is reasonable. So let's have a spear for lvl1 doing pierce, a glaive for lvl2 doing both and the monk thing for lvl3?
20100801 22:44:55< esr> alink: Sure confused me.
20100801 22:45:29< zookeeper> fendrin, well, the lvl1 can still use a glaive. you could say that the higher levels are just experts with the weapon, so they can do both blade and pierce.
20100801 22:46:17< zookeeper> fendrin, also, the other end of a monk's spade would deal impact, not pierce :P
20100801 22:46:54< zookeeper> hmh...or maybe not
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20100801 22:47:29< fendrin> zookeeper: Really? I think the half moon one would do pierce and the other side blade. It's not a block or is it?
20100801 22:47:51< zookeeper> fendrin, well, yeah, it's not a block, but the star trek weapon had a block
20100801 22:48:07< zookeeper> in any case, you don't need two sharp ends to justify two damage types
20100801 22:48:15< fendrin> zookeeper: Right, esr suggested it to have the non block thing on both sides.
20100801 22:48:28< zookeeper> the halberdier and triton deal both blade and pierce just fine without anything super-fancy
20100801 22:48:50< esr> Basically because I didn't want people to look at it and think "Star Trek"...
20100801 22:49:09< fendrin> esr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Monk-Spade.jpg
20100801 22:49:18< alink> http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/8/24/633867427738346750-THEVULCANLIRPA.jpg
20100801 22:50:11< esr> fendrin: Dude, I'm a martial artist.  I know what a monk's spade is. :-) :-)
20100801 22:50:46< fendrin> esr: Is it a pure fantasy weapon that isn't really handable in practise?
20100801 22:51:09< esr> fendrin: No, it's quite historical.
20100801 22:51:18< zookeeper> it's not exactly a military weapon though, AFAICT
20100801 22:51:40< fendrin> I think that it fits in well if we can find a good name for it.
20100801 22:52:21< esr> zookeeper: No.  It's a ssociated with Buddhist monastic orders.
20100801 22:53:15< Espreon> "warleek"
20100801 22:53:20 * Espreon chuckles
20100801 22:53:56< zookeeper> i'm not sure if it's because of the association with a wandering monk and such or for some other reason, but i find it odd to imagine an organized group of fighters wielding that
20100801 22:54:21< zookeeper> perfectly fitting for the wandering monk or similar, though
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20100801 22:55:15< fendrin> zookeeper: Well, lvl3 units are quite rare, you hardly will have a bigger group of them on the field.
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20100801 22:56:00< Rhonda> Not even in NR final battle?
20100801 22:56:42< fendrin> Rhonda: Well, I always thought it is time to introduce the quenoth elves in NR. They are just missing there :-)
20100801 22:59:27< Espreon> Let's also introduce Shaxthals, demons, and the Chaos humans in NR! LOL.
20100801 22:59:48< fendrin> Espreon: And some elementals. 
20100801 23:00:20< Espreon> <insert Awesome here>
20100801 23:03:17< alink> ooh funny concidence the Monk's spade is also called Moon-Tooth Spade, and quenoth in french sounds like 'quenotte' which means little tooth :-)
20100801 23:03:43< fendrin> alink: Great. Let's use that word.
20100801 23:04:32< fendrin> Okay, can we get an agreement on the material?
20100801 23:04:44< zookeeper> what word?
20100801 23:05:12< fendrin> I would have gone with using bones/leather/wood only but it seems that that is too radical for most devs, right?
20100801 23:05:25< fendrin> zookeeper: "Moon-Tooth Spade".
20100801 23:05:30< zookeeper> yeah, i don't see why they wouldn't have access to metal anymore
20100801 23:05:38< zookeeper> there's still hills and mountains within their reach
20100801 23:05:46< alink> fendrin: hum, french translator will have fun with that
20100801 23:05:47< zookeeper> (not that i have any idea of how elves mine, exactly...)
20100801 23:05:57< zookeeper> fendrin, honest opinion? horrible name ;)
20100801 23:06:28< alink> yeah I don't like the name either, I was just amused by the concidence
20100801 23:06:41< Espreon> alink: I forbid such interpretation.
20100801 23:06:56< alink> and because quenoth often make me smile 
20100801 23:07:09< zookeeper> i'd recommend "spade", but it's too heavily associated with shovels, i think. esr?
20100801 23:07:29< zookeeper> well, i guess it's pretty much a synonym for a shovel. right?
20100801 23:09:54-!- Daravel [~h_i_s_s@host81-154-233-240.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100801 23:11:51< norbert_> hey all, Daravel has been and is still looking through images and audio files that were and are being used in add-ons, to eventually create an easy to search through collection of all (interesting) files for campaigns and such
20100801 23:13:43< norbert_> I'm willing to write a PHP front-end for his project, and we're currently wondering who to talk to if we'd want to use up to maybe about 1 GB of space to store the files on wesnoth.org and get approval for the PHP files to be usable by visitors
20100801 23:14:53< norbert_> a user would enter terms in the search form and then see all applicable files; for instance search for "table" and get any umc that Daravel marks as having to do with "table"
20100801 23:15:21< norbert_> so, "sword" would show all images of swords that a campaign developer could use
20100801 23:15:38< elias> could users also add tags?
20100801 23:15:45< CIA-87> fendrin * r45085 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/guard/Guard.cfg: UtBS: Fixed the Guards advancements.
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20100801 23:16:26< norbert_> wouldn't be difficult to implement in PHP
20100801 23:16:35< norbert_> depends on what Daravel and others want
20100801 23:16:57< Daravel> best thing is to get the 1.2 databse up and running and take on all the feedback
20100801 23:17:22< Daravel> won't be 'too' hard to play around with all the data to make it easy to use
20100801 23:17:48< zookeeper> uahaha. i found the dumbest weapon pic i've seen today (and i've googled for quite a bit already)
20100801 23:17:55< zookeeper> http://sdksupplies.com/bigdao/bigdaolg.jpg :P
20100801 23:18:27< fendrin> :-)
20100801 23:18:34< elias> the weapon doesn't look so dumb
20100801 23:18:39< zookeeper> there's like...everything wrong with that pic
20100801 23:18:49< fendrin> zookeeper: What movement is fine for the Guard?
20100801 23:18:51< zookeeper> elias, sure, but the combination of weapon and wielder is
20100801 23:18:52< norbert_> pretty bad ass weapon though, and chick could be worse
20100801 23:19:12< fendrin> zookeeper: Do you consider that 6 is too much?
20100801 23:19:27< zookeeper> fendrin, eh, 5 sounds right for a regular infantry unit?
20100801 23:19:37< zookeeper> hunters could have 6
20100801 23:19:41< norbert_> elias: are you the person we should talk to? :)
20100801 23:20:07< elias> norbert_: no, i just found it interesting, since i was running a bot who posted all forum pictures on the wiki, a few years ago
20100801 23:20:08< zookeeper> there's nothing wrong with the weapon in that pic, but it's so clear that the gal has absolutely no idea what she's doing
20100801 23:20:40< alink> same site: Fighting canes !  http://sdksupplies.com/cat_stdhickory.html#Other
20100801 23:21:10< norbert_> who's in charge of wesnoth.org?
20100801 23:21:21< norbert_> who's looking after the 1u server(s)?
20100801 23:21:32< zookeeper> there's not like a single thing that's right in that girl's pose except that she's still standing
20100801 23:21:34< norbert_> who's moving PHP pages, updating the forum software, and so on?
20100801 23:22:12< fendrin> zookeeper: So the shielded version that is Steadfast will drop down to 4?
20100801 23:22:31< zookeeper> fendrin, i think it'd be fine if it stayed at 5
20100801 23:23:01< elias> norbert_: i know that Soliton has access... but i guess it may need some broader discussion to run an experimental project there
20100801 23:23:02< zookeeper> it just won't deal as much damage, but is fast enough to actually cover the other units instead of always lagging behind...
20100801 23:23:26< elias> norbert_: do you have the script/database running somehwhere already?
20100801 23:23:31< norbert_> elias: what place do you suggest this discussion takes place?
20100801 23:23:42< norbert_> elias: the dev mailing list, a forum section, irc?
20100801 23:24:33< fendrin> zookeeper: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=440906#p440906
20100801 23:24:35< elias> norbert_: i guess forums would be a good step, if there is no thread about this yet
20100801 23:25:20< fendrin> zookeeper: I guess we must reduce the shield size to fit jetrel's opinion.
20100801 23:25:46< norbert_> elias: there is, kind of, http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30916
20100801 23:27:00< zookeeper> fendrin, well, surely the unit won't have a shield anyway if it's wielding a two-handed polearm?
20100801 23:27:40< fendrin> zookeeper: Right, that unit is not using the glaive anymore.
20100801 23:27:54< zookeeper> fendrin, okay, what is it using then? a spear?
20100801 23:28:03< fendrin> zookeeper: It's using the same weapon as the hunter line uses in melee.
20100801 23:28:24< fendrin> zookeeper: Something in the line of: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HGAOd8qPL._SS500_.jpg
20100801 23:28:51< zookeeper> uh, ok, so now the hunters aren't going to be using spears after all?
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20100801 23:29:10< fendrin> zookeeper: No. 
20100801 23:29:14< zookeeper> that'd be the "war knife", right?
20100801 23:29:35< elias> norbert_: hm, dunno. i think best way would be to make a prototype (with just a few pictures) first, on another host... then see if there's interest to host it on wesnoth.org
20100801 23:30:16< Daravel> elias, well, 1.2 is almost fully done - more than just a few pictures though
20100801 23:30:42< fendrin> zookeeper: Right, that was the name esr came up with.
20100801 23:31:19< zookeeper> fendrin, well, that doesn't really make any sense. you have both hunters and a melee unit line specializing in holding the line using..._knives_ instead of spears?
20100801 23:31:51< zookeeper> that's more or less like if you made a horseman use a knife
20100801 23:32:20< elias> Daravel: hm, yeah, i guess you could try to catch soliton then :) maybe also bump the forum thread
20100801 23:32:35< fendrin> zookeeper: So you vote for giving the shielded Guard advancement a one handed spear?
20100801 23:32:51< zookeeper> fendrin, yeah, that's tons better than giving them knives
20100801 23:33:29< fendrin> zookeeper: Okay.
20100801 23:33:48< Daravel> elias, I'll have it finished soon (about 1,500 files left to do), then I think it's best to open a new, specific thread.
20100801 23:34:10< norbert_> Daravel: see other channel :)
20100801 23:34:38< fendrin> zookeeper: So it is: Guard - Two handed spear --> Sentry -- one handed spear, shield --> Sentinel one handed spear, slightly bigger shield ?
20100801 23:34:46< zookeeper> fendrin, yes
20100801 23:35:52< fendrin> zookeeper: And Guard - Two handed spear -> Striker -- Glaive that can do both damage types -> Slayer -- Monk-Spade.
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20100801 23:44:45< fendrin> zookeeper: Are you fine with a third advancement that does not have a lvl3 end. Using two war knives and be called "Blade Dancer"?
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20100801 23:45:37< fendrin> zookeeper: That unit would have many attacks but only a few points of damage. It is a unit that is more predictable in the amount of damage it does.
20100801 23:47:35< fendrin> zookeeper: Is it possible to make a unit being a skirmisher only on certain times of day?
20100801 23:48:28< norbert_> that sounds very complicated for the user, not keeping it simple
20100801 23:49:09< Daravel> norbert, what was your e-mail again?
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20100801 23:56:45< zookeeper> fendrin, just a sec, reading...
20100801 23:58:22< zookeeper> fendrin, yes, the skirmish thing is possible...although not on _specific_ ToD's
20100801 23:58:35< zookeeper> you can make it work on all chaotic ToD's or all lawful ToD's
20100801 23:58:43< zookeeper> (probably neutral too, haven't checked)
20100801 23:59:12< zookeeper> fendrin, anyway, don't you think the guard line should have a leadership unit at all?
--- Log closed Mon Aug 02 00:00:13 2010