--- Log opened Wed Aug 04 00:00:32 2010
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20100804 00:54:28< CIA-87> espreon * r45157 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/ (16 files in 4 dirs): Made most of the Quenoth elves neutral, renamed some attack names and ids.
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20100804 04:05:27 * rusty encourages people to submit papers to linux.conf.au: http://lca2011.linux.org.au/programme/presentations
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20100804 04:43:20< Golbeeze> Hello
20100804 04:43:38< Golbeeze> Elvish_Pillager, you here or just paying attention in-game?
20100804 04:43:46< Elvish_Pillage2> hi
20100804 04:43:51< Golbeeze> cool, so it didn't work
20100804 04:43:59< Elvish_Pillage2> pastebin your code
20100804 04:44:01< Golbeeze> ok
20100804 04:44:15< Elvish_Pillage2> also: you don't have a macro to create a sacrifice spot?!
20100804 04:44:26< Golbeeze> well its not my scenario
20100804 04:44:31< Golbeeze> i'm just tweaking it
20100804 04:44:51< Elvish_Pillage2> well, if such a macro exists, the end-moves event should be part of it
20100804 04:45:49< Golbeeze> ok there is such a macro
20100804 04:47:01< Golbeeze> you want me to put what you already gave me in the sacrifice macro?
20100804 04:47:50< Elvish_Pillage2> not verbatim... but yeah
20100804 04:48:08< Golbeeze> {VARIABLE unit.moves 0}
20100804 04:48:17< Golbeeze> what should this line be  :  {unstore "unit"}
20100804 04:48:22< Elvish_Pillage2> ah, no
20100804 04:48:29< Elvish_Pillage2> [unstore_unit] variable=unit
20100804 04:48:41< Golbeeze> ty
20100804 04:49:45< shadowmaster> Google never disappoints. I have tried to search for multiple sequences of rererere... < ('re')x$n  for perlpeople > and all of them give results.
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20100804 04:50:19< shadowmaster> I can't seem to find the common name for email sequences that go "Re: Re: Re:" though
20100804 04:51:37< shadowmaster> s/seem to//
20100804 04:52:12< shadowmaster> and no idea what's the name for when people include a full quote of the message they are replying to at the end of the body
20100804 04:52:48< shadowmaster> ...no, I'm not complaining about the posts in the dev ML. Probably. Maybe. I think.
20100804 04:56:21< Golbeeze> it works
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20100804 05:22:06< CIA-87> alink * r45158 /trunk/src/game_config.cpp: 
20100804 05:22:06< CIA-87> Remove hardcoded default for game_config.
20100804 05:22:06< CIA-87> They were not used, and even if used, hardcoding is bad.
20100804 05:22:14< CIA-87> alink * r45159 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): 
20100804 05:22:14< CIA-87> Move all game_config foo_image into sub-namespace images (as we do for sounds).
20100804 05:22:14< CIA-87> Drop the _image suffix and reorganize order.
20100804 05:22:17< CIA-87> alink * r45160 /trunk/ (data/game_config.cfg src/game.cpp src/game_config.cpp): 
20100804 05:22:17< CIA-87> Now really use the taskbar icon from game_config.cfg, and fix its url.
20100804 05:22:17< CIA-87> It was ignored before and only the hardcoded one was used. It is still used during loading, but when game_config is loaded, now use the one specidied there. Maybe not the final solution but documented the problem.
20100804 05:22:21< CIA-87> alink * r45161 /trunk/ (data/game_config.cfg src/game_config.cpp): Un-hardcode linger_image
20100804 05:22:23< CIA-87> alink * r45162 /trunk/data/game_config.cfg: Group images in game_config.cfg
20100804 05:22:25< CIA-87> alink * r45163 /trunk/ (data/game_config.cfg src/game_config.cpp): Rename some game_config key and add a reminder/test about an unused feature (random titlescreen images)
20100804 05:22:28< CIA-87> alink * r45164 /trunk/ (data/game_config.cfg src/game_config.cpp): Move all images game_config keys into [images] and drop the _image suffix
20100804 05:22:34< CIA-87> alink * r45165 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Use image::locator instead of game_config strings for hexes rendering.
20100804 05:22:37< CIA-87> alink * r45166 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Use 'orb' instead of 'ball' in game_config.
20100804 05:22:41< CIA-87> alink * r45167 /trunk/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Also use 'orb' instead of 'ball' in image's filenames
20100804 05:26:15< alink> any dev working on apple ?
20100804 05:27:30< alink> it seems that we don't set the application icon on that OS, see set_wm_icon(). Maybe check if still needed for recent version of SDL ?
20100804 05:27:44< alink> or mac don't use application icon ?
20100804 05:27:53< alink> I mean taskbar icon
20100804 05:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 132 bugs, 283 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100804 05:29:30< alink> the reason is not documented http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/image.cpp?rev=1744&view=diff&r1=1744&r2=1743&p1=trunk/src/image.cpp&p2=/trunk/src/image.cpp
20100804 05:29:39< alink> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?rev=1744&view=rev
20100804 05:30:58< eleazar_> alink: i don't think macs make a distinction between taskbar and application icons
20100804 05:31:23< eleazar_> anyway i haven't noticed a lack of icons anywhere
20100804 05:31:31< alink> yeah, I precised to avoid confusion with desktop icon
20100804 05:32:34< alink> I am talking about the little icon associated to the window. If you play fullscreen, you never see it
20100804 05:33:29< eleazar_> can you show a screenshot of what you mean?
20100804 05:33:30< alink> mmmh SDL says that win32 need 32x32 image and we use 64x64
20100804 05:34:14< alink> well it depends of you desktop, but I will do
20100804 05:34:36< eleazar_> you mean a little icon as part of the application's window?
20100804 05:34:43< alink> yes
20100804 05:34:49< eleazar_> Os X doesnt' do that
20100804 05:35:04< alink> this show up in various places of the desktop
20100804 05:35:13< alink> eleazar_: ok
20100804 05:36:19< eleazar_> well the application icon (on a mac) has various different sizes at it is used in various places, like in the dock, on the desktop, or in a finder window
20100804 05:37:42< alink> the icon on the desktop is different and is not decided by the code
20100804 05:38:17< alink> here is 3 places where the window icon show up on my KDE http://a.imageshack.us/img832/3038/iconsr.png
20100804 05:38:53< eleazar_> when i change a desktop icon *all* instances of that file's icon change 
20100804 05:40:26< eleazar_> which i think is a good thing.
20100804 05:40:37< alink> ok, I don't anything about mac desktop, but you are saying that all needed icons are present, no need to worry about a missing feature for mac
20100804 05:40:48< eleazar_> yep
20100804 05:41:07< eleazar_> nothing to worry about
20100804 05:41:34< eleazar_> but on behalf of mac-users i appreciate the thought
20100804 05:41:53< eleazar_> good night all
20100804 05:41:56< alink> the only thing that current code can do (but not on mac) is dynamically change the icon during runtime. 
20100804 05:42:02< alink> gn eleazar_
20100804 05:42:35< alink> but I see no use for such feature in wesnoth
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20100804 05:44:06< alink> (even if I recently made that possible by WML, when fixing the hardcoded icon problem)
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20100804 05:55:08< Upthorn> Hey, I have a question.
20100804 05:55:53< Upthorn> what functions would I look at for the creation and processing of replays?
20100804 05:59:46< alink> do_replay_handle() is the lowest level processing the actions recorded in a replay
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20100804 06:01:52< alink> and it seems that we record them by using recorder.foo() with recorder being a replay object
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20100804 06:04:48< Upthorn> I just found the replay class, but I'm not sure what foo is called to record WML events?
20100804 06:05:23< Upthorn> or are only the unit moves and player choices recorded, and the WML just triggered based on map settings?
20100804 06:05:24< alink> hum sorry 'foo' was used as a placeholder for various function
20100804 06:05:49< alink> real example : recorder.add_attack()
20100804 06:05:50< Upthorn> err, I know. I suppose asking "what foo is called" is a poor way to indicate
20100804 06:07:44< alink> I am not sure about WML events, but IIRC they are not recorded/sent, but just triggered by the action played by the replay
20100804 06:07:45< Upthorn> I need to change the way a certain [get_global_variable] is processed when occuring from a replay, as well as adding data to the replay when it is triggered during actual play
20100804 06:08:06< Upthorn> err "a certain" should not exist in that sentence.
20100804 06:09:20< Upthorn> basicaly, when [get_global_variable] happens, I need it to record to the replay what the value of the variable was. and when the replay gets there, I need it to read the value from the replay, instead of the data file
20100804 06:09:51< alink> maybe you just need to add a new replay action?
20100804 06:10:40< Upthorn> that seems likely
20100804 06:10:45< alink> any replay action has embedded info in it
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20100804 06:14:10< Upthorn> So... how do I do that?
20100804 06:14:33< alink> by copy pasting existent code ;-p
20100804 06:15:22< Upthorn> so I need to make an replay::add_foo() function and then add code to process that type of command?
20100804 06:15:57< alink> yes I believe that should be enough
20100804 06:16:44< alink> I think I only worked on move action in replay, where i added the followed path
20100804 06:17:08< alink> but maybe "rename" is a simpler example and closer to what you need
20100804 06:19:25< alink> I also precise that I didn't followed what is involved in your "get_global_variable", but if it's simply a problem to record and replay some action, then that should work
20100804 06:20:56< alink> the main trap with replay is to be sure that it replay exactly the same on all times and machines, to prevent network OOS
20100804 06:22:12< Upthorn> okay, so what happens is, when [get_global_variable] happens, it reads the value out of a file.
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20100804 06:22:29< alink> a replay file ?
20100804 06:22:39< Upthorn> no, a data file stored elsewhere
20100804 06:22:53< Upthorn> right now, when the replay happens, it reads the value out of the current file on the hard drive
20100804 06:22:54< alink> and all networks users have this file
20100804 06:22:59< alink> ?
20100804 06:23:25< Upthorn> which means that if it has different data from when the replay was recorded, a desync will occur.
20100804 06:24:02< Upthorn> what I need to do is make it so that when the get_global_variable happens, it records the value to the replay, and when the replay happens, it reads from there.
20100804 06:24:45< alink> yes seems that the content of  that file should be encoded in the replay action. I hope that this file is not big
20100804 06:25:30< Upthorn> well, only one value needs to be encoded for each event.
20100804 06:25:40< alink> ok good
20100804 06:25:45< Upthorn> values can be any wml variable
20100804 06:27:25< Upthorn> ... including arrays.
20100804 06:28:17< alink> I just asked in case it was a big WML file, any WML variable should be fine
20100804 06:28:51< Upthorn> of the things I've used in the test-scenario, the largest single value is a single unit, which is 5.16kb
20100804 06:30:04< alink> mmh that's more than I expected, but I have no idea if it's a real problem
20100804 06:32:03< alink> and how is it linked to WML events? because I think you have less control on events in replay
20100804 06:33:38< alink> mmmh I see a "fire_event" replay action
20100804 06:33:46< Upthorn> well [get_global_variable] is a tag that occurs in events
20100804 06:34:15< Upthorn> I need a way to determine whether it was called from a replay or live play.
20100804 06:35:22< alink> I know that ::move_unit() has a is_replay boolean flag
20100804 06:36:44< alink> oh and it badly uses it to allow illegal moves :-/
20100804 06:36:55< alink> I should fix that
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20100804 08:40:50< timotei> morning
20100804 08:47:17< billynux> morning timotei :) (4am here though)
20100804 08:47:28< timotei> hi billynux :P
20100804 08:47:42< timotei> well, to me it's 9.47
20100804 08:47:44< timotei> am
20100804 08:47:44< billynux> :)
20100804 08:55:57< Upthorn> hey, does anybody know a good way to find out, at any given point in the code, whether a replay is playing or live-play is happening?
20100804 08:56:37< timotei> Upthorn: isn't there a variable to tell you that?
20100804 08:57:05< shadowmaster> night.
20100804 08:57:11< timotei> night shadowm_laptop 
20100804 08:57:14< timotei> hmm
20100804 08:57:18< shadowmaster> being 3 am minus 3
20100804 08:57:20< Upthorn> If there is, I'm having a lot of trouble reading code at the moment.
20100804 08:58:11< Upthorn> I cannot find what it is if it exists.
20100804 08:59:54< timotei> is replay something like a save game?
20100804 09:00:54< timotei> Upthorn: 
20100804 09:00:59< Upthorn> replay is a part of every savegame, with a list of commands the player has given from the start until a given point.
20100804 09:01:06< timotei> Upthorn: gamestatus.cpp: 306
20100804 09:01:30< timotei> based on that I can assume it the : gamestate.replay_data is empty if no replay is in place
20100804 09:01:53< timotei> gamestate.replay_data being in: playcampaign.cpp:play_game():
20100804 09:02:11< Upthorn> thanks. I'll try that out.
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20100804 09:05:18< timotei> elias: hi
20100804 09:05:37< Upthorn> oh man, I am watching a persistence-data desynced replay
20100804 09:05:45< timotei> :(
20100804 09:05:59< Upthorn> when it was recorded, the unit in persistence data was a silver mage
20100804 09:06:15< Upthorn> but during recording the unit in persistence data was changed to a fire dragon
20100804 09:06:25< silene> Upthorn: if you want to know how to handle replays (and multiplayers, since it's the same thing), look at the last function of replay.cpp
20100804 09:06:39< Upthorn> result: during replay fire dragon teleports between villages haha
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20100804 09:07:55< Upthorn> silene: thanks. But I also need to be able to detect from get_global_variable whether it is from a replay or not
20100804 09:08:08< boucman> morning all
20100804 09:08:11< silene> Upthorn: so what? it's the exact same logic
20100804 09:08:18< timotei> morning boucman 
20100804 09:08:22< silene> Upthorn: if you use any other logic, your code will fail
20100804 09:08:27< Upthorn> so it will know whether to read from the replay or read from the actual persistence config file
20100804 09:10:33< silene> Upthorn: if you don't want to use the function, fine; but you have to copy-paste it: you need the exact same three branches with the exact same conditions on them
20100804 09:10:39< timotei> hmm
20100804 09:10:46< Upthorn> or I need a way to prevent get_global_variable from being recorded in the replay
20100804 09:10:57< Upthorn> silene: I am not saying that
20100804 09:11:11< Upthorn> I do not understand how using that function addresses my issue.
20100804 09:11:55< Upthorn> I'm having a lot of trouble thinking clearly at the moment, so my c++ reading comprehension is poor right now.
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20100804 09:15:17< Upthorn> silene: To be more clear: I do want to use the function, I am having difficulty figuring out how.
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20100804 09:16:28< Upthorn> it looks like I need to make a child type of the user_choice struct?
20100804 09:16:30< silene> Upthorn: it's probably the most commented function in the whole engine (20 lines of comment!), if you can't figure it, i can't help you
20100804 09:18:39< Upthorn> okay, yeah I do have to make a subtype of user_choice
20100804 09:18:59< billynux> silene, http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/JpZvmRtz -> 20 lines too :)
20100804 09:19:10< billynux> sry for the OT, I really gotta go to sleep
20100804 09:19:21< silene> billynux: i didn't count the empty lines ;-)
20100804 09:19:41< billynux> darn! I'll just add some random comment to take the prize then :D
20100804 09:19:57< billynux> quantity before quality
20100804 09:19:59< billynux> :P
20100804 09:20:29< Upthorn> silene: I am sorry, it is difficult for me to understand code while I am having an anxiety attack, and the comments all regard the function's internal logic, not the external interface.
20100804 09:20:50< billynux> ok, I'm off, good luck y'all
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20100804 09:21:41< Upthorn> I think I've figured it out now, but I also do not feel that you were trying to be particularly helpful when I expressed difficulty. I apologize if it had to do with the way I put myself across.
20100804 09:23:04< Upthorn> I am just incredibly stressed out right now. But thank you for pointing me to that function. It will definitely save a great deal of work for me to make use of it.
20100804 09:27:28< timotei> I love my mac firefox theme <3
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20100804 09:28:40< Ivanovic> moin
20100804 09:29:04< timotei> hi Ivanovic 
20100804 09:29:05< Ivanovic> boucman: yeah, end of gsoc sounds reasonable as target for 1.9.0
20100804 09:29:16< timotei> damn it. vs is compiling again
20100804 09:29:28< boucman> k, good,
20100804 09:30:07< Upthorn> timotei: I know! don't you hate it when vs compiles your code?
20100804 09:30:24< timotei> umm... I don't hate that
20100804 09:30:28< timotei> but it compiles stupid
20100804 09:30:46< timotei> last time compiled only some files modified
20100804 09:30:54< timotei> now, I modified game.cpp and compiles A LOT
20100804 09:30:55< timotei> damn it
20100804 09:30:57< boucman> timotei: i'm not a WML writer so I probably won't use your plugin... however it happens that I add some WML syntax. Will there be any special step I need to take to tell the plugin about it ?
20100804 09:31:24< timotei> boucman: well, the schema.cfg dictates me all possible tags
20100804 09:31:38< timotei> boucman: so, either you add them in there
20100804 09:31:54< timotei> boucman: or you wait till AI0867 finishes the schema generation based on C++ comments
20100804 09:32:07< boucman> ok
20100804 09:32:30< timotei> Upthorn: lucky windows. I stay on it just because my wireless works and on linux it doesn't
20100804 09:32:40 * boucman think it would be cool to crosscheck/generate the Wiki WML documentation from there at some point...
20100804 09:33:06< timotei> well, I think that's the purpose
20100804 09:34:16< boucman> cool
20100804 09:36:06< timotei> elias: it takes up to 150-160 sdl_ticks for just core/macros and core/terrain
20100804 09:37:33< timotei> general question. wanting to make a command that can take some directories/files as argument. what's better?:
20100804 09:37:40< timotei> --include file1 --include file2 ...
20100804 09:37:40< timotei> or:
20100804 09:37:49< timotei> --include file1,file2,dir1,etc
20100804 09:38:00< timotei> the former would allow as many as you want
20100804 09:40:16< boucman> i guess we don't have a similar syntax in another argument since you ask the question...
20100804 09:40:45< timotei> --log-<level>=<domain1>,<domain2>,
20100804 09:40:53< timotei> --debug-dot-level=<level1>,<level2>,
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20100804 10:07:21< timotei> silene: what exactly means the 'name' parameters from this?: void preproc_define::write(config_writer& writer, const std::string& name)
20100804 10:07:26< timotei> writer.write_key_val("name", name);
20100804 10:07:33< timotei> an independent name?
20100804 10:07:49< Ivanovic> billynux, gabba, timotei, Upthorn: please keep in mind that less than 2 weeks are left for gsoc until the final evals start
20100804 10:07:57< Ivanovic> August 16:
20100804 10:07:58< timotei> Ivanovic: yeah. Thanks
20100804 10:07:59< Ivanovic> 19:00 UTC 	
20100804 10:08:00< Ivanovic> Firm 'pencils down' date. Mentors, students and organization administrators can begin submitting final evaluations to Google.
20100804 10:08:38< Ivanovic> boucman, crab_, fendrin, mordante: keep in mind that you got to write the final evals between august 16th and august 20th 19:00UTC
20100804 10:09:24< Ivanovic> yes, there is no weekend included in the eval time, just monday to friday
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20100804 10:28:31< timotei> w00t
20100804 10:28:40< timotei> the written preproc_map is a GOLD MINE :O
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20100804 10:49:36 * zookeeper blinks
20100804 10:50:10< zookeeper> i updated svn, and using a build 5 days old half of all images don't show up in-game
20100804 10:50:19< timotei> lol
20100804 10:50:21< timotei> what images?
20100804 10:50:37< zookeeper> worked fine last night. funny.
20100804 10:52:03< Ivanovic> zookeeper: then, uhm, get a fresh build?
20100804 10:52:05< Ivanovic> ;)
20100804 10:52:55< timotei> right
20100804 10:53:06< timotei> zookeeper: update it, since alink modified some game_config things
20100804 10:53:12< timotei> last night :)
20100804 10:53:22< zookeeper> i can see how alink's changes to game.cfg would have broken the title screen and stuff, but i also get a lot of missing campaign and difficulty icons
20100804 10:53:43< zookeeper> oh well, i'll just wait for a new build...
20100804 10:53:46< timotei> :)
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20100804 11:14:48< zookeeper> silene, from wiki/StandardUnitFilter: "lua_function: the name of a Lua function in the global environment that ..." <--- i take it that there are no such mainline functions defined yet, right?
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20100804 11:37:34< silene> timotei: it's the macro name
20100804 11:37:40< timotei> ok
20100804 11:39:28< silene> zookeeper: it's up to the user to define them; the idea is just that some suf are called constantly (e.g. the ones involved in movement, since they impact vision range, path finding, and the like), so instead of having some lua script that needs to be compiled each time, it's the name of a function defined beforehand (e.g. in the preload event)
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20100804 11:40:17< silene> that's way, it's as fast (in fact, faster) than plain wml suf
20100804 11:40:22< zookeeper> silene, okay
20100804 11:40:32< zookeeper> do you think it'd be a good idea to have a kind of a core library with some common functions?
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20100804 11:41:40< silene> zookeeper: if they are indeed common, then yes
20100804 11:42:36< silene> but i should improve lua_function so that it accepts more complicated names, e.g. library.function, to make it more useful
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20100804 11:50:41< zookeeper> silene, ok. i don't have any particular functions in mind now that i realized my first idea wouldn't work well though ;)
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20100804 11:54:47< fendrin> timotei: hi
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20100804 11:56:31< timotei> fendrin: yo
20100804 11:56:54< fendrin> timotei: I have had a look at the grammatic.
20100804 11:57:03< timotei> fendrin: cool
20100804 11:58:12< fendrin> timotei: I think one problem is, that an attribute value can consist of comma separated values.
20100804 11:59:08< fendrin> timotei: Variables start with a $ and finish with either "|" " " or the "," 
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20100804 12:01:17< timotei> damn. I don't get this. one hour ago I got 454 defines from /data/core/macros
20100804 12:01:20< timotei> now I don't get any
20100804 12:01:23< timotei> wtf is happening
20100804 12:01:51< zookeeper> augh. anyone good with formulas around?
20100804 12:03:08< timotei> silene: any idea on this?http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/NCNLUMj7
20100804 12:03:11< timotei> fendrin: yep
20100804 12:03:21< timotei> fendrin: I've decided to don't start deep on semantics yet
20100804 12:03:37< zookeeper> i'm writing a macro which takes a SUF as an argument, and i need to make a formula which turns that into a comma-separated side number list...
20100804 12:03:38< timotei> fendrin: I need first to handle all construct from mainline with minimum semantics/checks/constraints
20100804 12:03:59< zookeeper> i'm not sure if what i want is even possible
20100804 12:04:06< timotei> zookeeper: what's a SUF?
20100804 12:04:07< silene> timotei: what's wrong with it?
20100804 12:04:24< timotei> well, it seems it doesn't parse any macros at all from /data/core
20100804 12:04:24< timotei> :|
20100804 12:05:00< timotei> silene: try this: wesnoth.exe --log-debug=all -p data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ /tmp/wesoth
20100804 12:05:03< silene> timotei: but that's not the data/core from wesnoth, that's your own one, no?
20100804 12:05:12< timotei> it's data/core from wesnoth
20100804 12:05:21< timotei> gw=git wesnoth :P
20100804 12:06:17< silene> timotei: i can't yet, i'm trying to understand why find_in is broken in cliff of thoria but not in the test scenario
20100804 12:06:26< timotei> oh
20100804 12:06:29< timotei> ok
20100804 12:06:35< timotei> fendrin: could you test this?
20100804 12:06:41< timotei> wesnoth --log-debug=all -p data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ /d/tmp/wesnoth_plugin/ab
20100804 12:06:42< silene> zookeeper: it's possible with lua, but i don't know if you can use lua there
20100804 12:07:03< timotei> fendrin: actually:wesnoth --log-debug=all -p data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ /tmp/
20100804 12:08:34< zookeeper> silene, i don't think i can...well, i can just make the macro require a few more arguments, i was just hoping i could make it a bit cleaner
20100804 12:08:53< silene> zookeeper: which macro is it?
20100804 12:09:10< zookeeper> trying to make a nice macro which would simulate a sighted event _right_ by using moveto events with complex filters
20100804 12:09:50< zookeeper> and looks like i need the macro to take four arguments: two unit filters and two side filters
20100804 12:10:02< zookeeper> (i need them so that...eh, doesn't matter, i just do)
20100804 12:10:09 * zookeeper is afk for a while
20100804 12:10:36< silene> zookeeper: has the find_in in cliff of thoria ever worked? looking at the code, there is now it could (find_in is not allowed at this place and it is silently ignored)
20100804 12:10:49< silene> no way*
20100804 12:11:11< fendrin> timotei: executed the line, what do you expect it to do?
20100804 12:11:25< timotei> umm, could you paste or tell me how much defines it found?
20100804 12:11:39< timotei> something like: acquired <x> defines.
20100804 12:15:29< fendrin> timotei: I can't find that information.
20100804 12:15:43< timotei> hmm, copy paste the log then?
20100804 12:15:54< timotei> or better, run it wihout --log-debug=all
20100804 12:16:01< timotei> then it should be more visible
20100804 12:18:45< fendrin> timotei: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/62RhSFdK
20100804 12:19:03< timotei> thanks
20100804 12:19:14< timotei> 1275 acquired 1506 defines.
20100804 12:19:18< timotei> so yeah, it works
20100804 12:24:11< silene> zookeeper: scrap what i said (and what i wrote in the bug report), i think i have found the issue
20100804 12:24:50< timotei> ok... now who's guilty?
20100804 12:24:56< timotei> me? windows? my computer? the world?
20100804 12:25:25< timotei> fendrin: I don't get why it doesn't do what it supposed to do.
20100804 12:25:40< timotei> fendrin: it should output a more than 0 defines in that damn location
20100804 12:26:14< timotei> ok, this is enough. trying from linux
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20100804 12:39:52< CIA-87> silene * r45168 /trunk/src/terrain_filter.cpp: Fixed logic for find_in when called from inside a unit filter. (Fix for bug #16344.)
20100804 12:41:07< fendrin> timotei: Does it work in linux?
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20100804 12:46:39< zookeeper> silene, cool
20100804 12:46:44< zookeeper> and yeah, it definitely works in 1.8
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20100804 12:48:54< loonycyborg> zookeeper: The trunk binary is updated.
20100804 12:49:18< fendrin> timotei: did it work in linux?
20100804 12:49:36< timotei> fendrin: umm, not tried. forgot I didn't setup it (just installed)
20100804 12:49:41< timotei> fendrin: it seems I have to recompile it
20100804 12:49:45< timotei> fendrin: an older .exe works
20100804 12:49:54< timotei> I think some linkins were stupid
20100804 12:50:25< timotei> II'm recompiling it again
20100804 12:50:40< timotei> fendrin: btw, it seems I can get a very nice output from macro definitions :)
20100804 12:51:51< timotei> silene: I see the " are encoded like "" in the [preproc_define]
20100804 12:51:56< timotei> what about strings like:
20100804 12:52:05< timotei> description = " my name is ""timotei""."
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20100804 12:56:24< silene> timotei: i guess they will have """"
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20100804 12:57:30< zookeeper> loonycyborg, great, thanks
20100804 12:58:15< silene> zookeeper: yes, the code is quite strange, it is duplicated between location filters and location filters inside unit filters; so i wasn't looking at the correct one (find_in is indeed disabled, but another one is enabled instead)
20100804 12:59:10< zookeeper> silene, hmmh, ok. dunno anything about that :p
20100804 13:01:27< timotei> ok
20100804 13:04:27< timotei> silene: if I want to copy the 'preproc_map' to another one, is enough doing this?:
20100804 13:04:37< timotei> preproc target_map(source_map); ?
20100804 13:04:43< timotei> so, using the copy ctor
20100804 13:06:31< zookeeper> silene, btw, i haven't looked at the modify_unit patch much yet, but i glanced at it and it looks suspicious how it seems to handle [status] explicitly so i'm guessing it doesn't work for arbitrary unit attributes...
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20100804 13:43:26< timotei> ohh
20100804 13:43:31< timotei> it rains so cool <3
20100804 14:01:50< fendrin> timotei: On what are you working at the moment?
20100804 14:03:58< silene> timotei: no idea, you will have to look for yourself; this is the part of the preprocessor i didn't write (or rather, i wrote it, and then suokko completely rewrote it)
20100804 14:06:36< fendrin> timotei: Did you disable the grammar checker? I just don't get any error messages anymore.
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20100804 14:10:23< timotei> fendrin: hmm, I'm gonna kill visual studio. still it doesn't work as intended
20100804 14:10:30< timotei> fendrin: didn't disable anything :P
20100804 14:10:41< timotei> fendrin: I really think I'm gonna switch on linux
20100804 14:10:48< timotei> fendrin: I'm working on the output for macros
20100804 14:10:55< timotei> fendrin: and uilding _main.cfg first
20100804 14:11:02< timotei> so the next scenario processed get the macros :)
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20100804 14:11:16< fendrin> timotei: huh?
20100804 14:12:07< timotei> fendrin: well, eclipse builder processes the files in 'their' order on disk
20100804 14:12:15< timotei> fendrin: I need to make sure _main.cf ggets processed first
20100804 14:12:27< fendrin> Right
20100804 14:12:29< timotei> fendrin: and then use the preprocessor to output read macros, so I can use them for the next scenarios
20100804 14:12:58< timotei> I've done a scratch build
20100804 14:13:00< timotei> but nothing:(
20100804 14:13:12< timotei> omg
20100804 14:13:23< timotei> big thunderstorm here
20100804 14:13:27< timotei> creepy
20100804 14:14:29< fendrin> timotei: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/09UiBg5F
20100804 14:14:59< fendrin> timotei: That is what I get when starting the eclipse plugin out of eclipse.
20100804 14:15:18< fendrin> timotei: Meaning in a second child eclipse.
20100804 14:15:18< timotei> fendrin: out of eclipse? what does that mean? installing it though update manager?
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20100804 14:16:57< fendrin> timotei: I started from the source an embedded eclipse to test the plugin.
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20100804 14:22:35< timotei> ok, brb I'm entering linux
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20100804 14:38:53< Upthorn> huh. Is it normal, when watching a replay of the test scenario, for an ancient wose to appear when you hit the "reset to beginning" button?
20100804 14:46:45< AI0867> probably not
20100804 14:46:53< silene> Upthorn: no idea, i can't reproduce it; i get a segfault at persist_var.cpp:88 before it can even happen (resources::persist == 0)
20100804 14:48:02< Upthorn> silene: yeah I fixed taht and I'm testing out the sync framework, which seems to work, but when I hit the reset to beginning button an ancient wose appears and then everything desyncs
20100804 14:48:31< silene> you should at least commit the fix for the segfault
20100804 14:51:26< Upthorn> It told me I had to update first, and I didn't want to risk having to do a full rebuild for further testing
20100804 14:55:34< Upthorn> and now that I'm satisfied with my tests, and have committed, CIA-87 is being lazy and not reporting.
20100804 14:57:49-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100804 14:59:49< silene> Upthorn: please revert your last commit, it is wrong; until the state is PLAY, the connection hasn't even been established with other clients
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20100804 15:01:35< Upthorn> silene: get_global_variable calls can occur in prestart events. If the sync framework cannot be used before the state is PLAY, such replays will desync immediately.
20100804 15:02:04< silene> Upthorn: then it means you are not allowed to call get_global_variable during prestart events
20100804 15:02:12< silene> don't modify code you don't understand
20100804 15:03:02< Upthorn> if you look, the way it works for all other things is unchanged, because I did that using a special override bool that only gets called from that one place.
20100804 15:03:23-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20100804 15:04:34< silene> Upthorn: i don't care; the replay mechanism is the core of the multiplayer engine; you have added a special exception that will break in multiplayer, so remove it
20100804 15:07:52< Upthorn> alright.
20100804 15:12:01< Upthorn> silene: is there a simple way for me to determine whether the game is running in single player or multiplayer modes so that the copy-paste replacement can function correctly in all cases?
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20100804 15:13:31< AI0867> Upthorn: would you consider "hotseat" to be multiplayer or singleplayer?
20100804 15:13:38< Upthorn> if you answer positively, it will result in the commit you requested occuring sooner.
20100804 15:13:53< Upthorn> AI0867: hotseat is singleplayer for the purposes of replay-based sync
20100804 15:14:21< AI0867> I believe that check is usually done by using the number of network connections or something
20100804 15:14:59< Upthorn> is that reliable before the other players are connected?
20100804 15:15:20< AI0867> not sure
20100804 15:15:25< silene> AI0867: no, that won't work; since a replay of a mp game becomes sp, so you can't have a change of behavior there
20100804 15:16:28< silene> Upthorn: ^
20100804 15:18:11-!- Greywhind [~Greywhind@fw-34-17.cs.brown.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100804 15:18:43< CIA-87> ai0867 * r45172 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/08_Silent_Forest.cfg: Fix one part of bug #16356: side 2 also has elves. Ported from 1.8
20100804 15:18:44< CIA-87> upthorn * r45170 /trunk/src/ (persist_var.cpp replay.cpp replay.hpp): fixed get_global_variable to use mp_sync framework, slightly modified mp_sync framework to allow for usage during events that occur before state_of_game->phase() = PLAY
20100804 15:18:54< Upthorn> silene: actually the behavior change isn't relevant, because replays recorded from MP won't have data where it is only allowable for SP replays to have data
20100804 15:18:56< CIA-87> ai0867 * r45171 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/08_Silent_Forest.cfg: Fix one part of bug #16356: side 2 also has elves
20100804 15:18:56< CIA-87> upthorn * r45169 /trunk/src/ (4 files): moved the persist_manager variable from playsingle controller to base play_controller class, as replays will crash without it.
20100804 15:20:00< Upthorn> and the behavior will be the same in all other respects.
20100804 15:20:08< silene> Upthorn: i doubt it
20100804 15:20:47< Upthorn> you doubt what?
20100804 15:21:28< silene> Upthorn: replay::process_error will be raised, since the replay won't contain data; how can you say that the behavior change is irrelevant?
20100804 15:22:31< Upthorn> I think you are thinking about a different scenario than I am. There's no reason replay::process_error should be raised by what I am talking about.
20100804 15:23:08< Upthorn> I see where the misunderstanding has arisen.
20100804 15:23:35< silene> Upthorn: by reverting your patch, i don't get an ancient wose to appear and the replay is fine
20100804 15:24:16< Upthorn> Multiplayer scenarios will be disallowed from using [get_wml_variable] during prestart events. Therefore there will be no data recorded there, nor will the replay attempt to look for data there during playback.
20100804 15:24:35-!- Elvish_Pillage2 [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100804 15:27:50< silene> Upthorn: no, scrap what i said, i can reproduce it
20100804 15:28:23< Upthorn> if you put a unit on the "temporal clone" label
20100804 15:29:13< CIA-87> upthorn * r45173 /trunk/src/ (persist_var.cpp replay.cpp replay.hpp): reverting the changes to mp_sync framework at silene's request.
20100804 15:29:31< Upthorn> and then start the scenario again and use that unit for anything, with my change reverted the replay will desync immediately, because the get_global_variables won't fire during prestart
20100804 15:30:28< Upthorn> or rather will simply return empty configs, instead of actually loading the data from either the persistence cfg file or the replay
20100804 15:32:33< Upthorn> but, I guess I'll either have to figure some other way to work around that, or how to determine what type of event any given command is called from so that I can properly restrict global variable usage
20100804 15:34:34-!- timotei21 [~timo@188.24.6.9] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100804 15:35:25< Upthorn> I would like to point out, though, if you'd been a little more helpful when I asked for help using that function, I would probably have known not to change it that way.
20100804 15:36:04< fendrin> timotei21: Do you have time a bit?
20100804 15:36:19< timotei21> fendrin: one sec
20100804 15:36:24-!- timotei21 [~timo@188.24.6.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100804 15:36:35< Upthorn> I need to get some sleep now.
20100804 15:36:58-!- timotei21 [~timo@188.24.6.9] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100804 15:39:12< timotei21> ah, my old sabayon. not entered since 20 may :))
20100804 15:39:21< timotei21> ok fendrin
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20100804 15:39:49< fendrin> timotei21: I have deleted the User Addons project and initialized the workspace.
20100804 15:40:05< fendrin> timotei: Now lexing/parsing errors are back there.
20100804 15:40:42< timotei> fendrin: ye
20100804 15:40:43< fendrin> I have identified 6 different problems that seem to cover more or less 95% of all the 6000 errors in IftU
20100804 15:41:18< fendrin> I guess all of them are easy to fix.
20100804 15:41:48< timotei> ok
20100804 15:42:02< fendrin> Not meaning that your grammar is good by prove. It maybe to relaxed, and don't report errors.
20100804 15:42:40< timotei> logtimo
20100804 15:43:48< fendrin> Have you ever worked with grammars?
20100804 15:45:14< timotei> well... this is the first time I'm working with antlr
20100804 15:45:23< timotei> one sec to check food
20100804 15:45:40< fendrin> That is true for me as well.
20100804 15:47:42< fendrin> timotei: The emacs wml mode does have some good working grammar checker. But it will be written in lisp most likely.
20100804 15:48:10< fendrin> timotei: Nevertheless, that antrl seems to use regular expressions, right? 
20100804 15:52:57< timotei> back
20100804 15:53:07< timotei> hmm not really
20100804 15:53:16< timotei> I think it's an ordinarry 'lexer'
20100804 15:53:20< timotei> char by char
20100804 15:54:03< fendrin> terminal STRING     : '"' ( '\\' ('b'|'t'|'n'|'f'|'r'|'"'|"'"|'\\') | !('\\'|'"') )* '"'; Pretty much looks like a regular expression, isn't it?
20100804 15:54:20< timotei> hmm
20100804 15:54:24< timotei> it looks like
20100804 15:54:30< timotei> but in the end
20100804 15:54:33< timotei> if you look at:
20100804 15:54:44< timotei> src-gen/org.wesnoth.wml/antlr/internal
20100804 15:54:46< timotei> there is a file .g
20100804 15:54:54< timotei> that is the true 'antrl file':P
20100804 15:55:05< timotei> xtext just uses some kind of rules to simply the logic
20100804 15:55:37< fendrin> Okay, let's come to the point.
20100804 15:55:47< CIA-87> silene * r45174 /trunk/src/replay.cpp: Properly reverted r45170 so that the engine actuals.
20100804 15:55:50< CIA-87> silene * r45175 /trunk/src/replay_controller.cpp: Fixed start events not being replayed.
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20100804 15:57:29< fendrin> timotei: you have that terminal definitions. The one called String is fine for arguments. They can cantain non ascii characters. But if a single attribute value is not quoted it is parsed as ID which will fail.
20100804 15:58:09< timotei> well, there are no problems for that, since if either ID or string won't match
20100804 15:58:10< fendrin> timotei: On the right side of attribute= is never an id to be parsed Except for the occourance of $.
20100804 15:58:14< timotei> the rule ANY_OTHER will match
20100804 15:59:49< fendrin> timotei: I still guess that ANY_OTHER is a regular expression and "." will only match on a single character.
20100804 16:00:17< timotei> true
20100804 16:00:24< timotei> but the value assigned to WMLKey
20100804 16:00:26< timotei> is +
20100804 16:00:27< timotei> ()
20100804 16:00:49< timotei> value += WMLKeyValue+
20100804 16:04:35< fendrin> timotei: Strange, then why are the non ascii chars not marked error, when in strings but marked error when standing alone.
20100804 16:04:47< fendrin> ?
20100804 16:04:51< timotei> that doesn't happen
20100804 16:04:55< timotei> only if an error is before
20100804 16:04:57< timotei> :P
20100804 16:05:58< fendrin> It does happen.
20100804 16:06:08< timotei> hmm
20100804 16:06:08< fendrin> id=fgßas
20100804 16:06:15< timotei> ah
20100804 16:06:23< timotei> well..
20100804 16:06:32< fendrin> but id="fgßas" is fine
20100804 16:06:47< timotei> hmm
20100804 16:06:54< timotei> you were talking abou that
20100804 16:06:55< fendrin> So there must be a difference.
20100804 16:07:16< fendrin> The "sgßas" is handled as a string.
20100804 16:07:34< fendrin> The sgßas must be handled by either id or other.
20100804 16:07:40< fendrin> And one of that fails.
20100804 16:08:36< timotei> ß
20100804 16:09:17< timotei> well, I've said not to stay anymore on grammar things, before I finish 'big tasks' like autcompletion
20100804 16:13:14< fendrin> timotei: That is fine with me. Please allow me to define a grammar for wml. 
20100804 16:18:56< timotei> fendrin: ok, you are free to try :)
20100804 16:19:07< timotei> fendrin: you maybe will need the documentation:
20100804 16:19:18< timotei> fendrin: http://www.eclipse.org/Xtext/documentation/1_0_0/xtext.html
20100804 16:19:52< fendrin> timotei: I will go with a general description first. I guess it can be easily translated in xtext syntax.
20100804 16:20:01< timotei> well, I thought that too :P
20100804 16:20:05< timotei> but ok
20100804 16:20:09< timotei> we'll see what ends to
20100804 16:20:15< timotei> I'm going for lunch
20100804 16:32:10< fendrin> AI0867: Around?
20100804 16:46:43-!- Golbeeze [~Golbeeze@c-76-124-219-232.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100804 16:47:00< Golbeeze> Elvish_Pillager, are you here?
20100804 16:47:04< CIA-87> silene * r45176 /trunk/src/replay_controller.cpp: Fixed replays duplicating unit changes happening during start events.
20100804 16:47:05< CIA-87> silene * r45177 /trunk/src/replay_controller.cpp: Factored code to avoid replay discrepancies when resetting them.
20100804 16:47:07< CIA-87> silene * r45178 /trunk/src/replay_controller.cpp: Fixed replays not displaying labels and items.
20100804 16:47:08< Elvish_Pillage2> yes
20100804 16:47:10< CIA-87> silene * r45179 /trunk/src/replay_controller.cpp: Moved initializations before replaying start events.
20100804 16:47:15< Elvish_Pillage2> albeit with a headache
20100804 16:47:35< Golbeeze> Should I wait for another time to bother you, then?
20100804 16:47:44< Elvish_Pillage2> no, bother me now
20100804 16:48:00< Golbeeze> ok
20100804 16:48:12< Golbeeze> so I am terrible when it comes to working with variables
20100804 16:48:23< Golbeeze> I just don't understand them despite their simple nature.
20100804 16:48:31< Elvish_Pillage2> ah.
20100804 16:49:04< Golbeeze> I think the real problem is linking Blood with a variable
20100804 16:49:09< Golbeeze> or rather, a unit
20100804 16:49:18< Elvish_Pillage2> why with a unit?
20100804 16:49:40< Golbeeze> because when I use :inspect,  it only gives me ONE of the sacrificed unit's info
20100804 16:49:47< Elvish_Pillage2> uh
20100804 16:50:10< Elvish_Pillage2> that's probably because that info is stored in a temporary variable for each sacrificed unit, and not cleared
20100804 16:50:17< Elvish_Pillage2> (so it overwrites it every time, and just leaves the last)
20100804 16:50:22< CIA-87> silene * r45180 /trunk/src/replay_controller.cpp: Fixed turn events not replaying on reset.
20100804 16:50:35< Golbeeze> ah...well that should work if I just want a 1-time boost for each unit as it is created, right?
20100804 16:50:45< Elvish_Pillage2> right
20100804 16:50:56< Elvish_Pillage2> you want something more than that?
20100804 16:51:03< Golbeeze> no, that is what I want
20100804 16:51:07< Elvish_Pillage2> oh
20100804 16:51:34< Golbeeze> basically, at certain values (or greater) i plan on boosting damages
20100804 16:51:44< Elvish_Pillage2> yeah, what you probably want to do is find where in the code the units are sacrificed
20100804 16:51:44-!- timotei [~timo@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100804 16:51:52< Elvish_Pillage2> and at that point, check if their side's blood is high enough
20100804 16:52:00< Elvish_Pillage2> and if it is, apply an [object] before duplicating the unit
20100804 16:52:17< Golbeeze> ok
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20100804 16:56:27< Golbeeze> ok so the object part is easy, but how will I check the blood?
20100804 16:56:32< Golbeeze> [if]
20100804 16:56:35< Golbeeze> side=$side
20100804 16:56:39< Golbeeze> [variable]
20100804 16:56:42< Golbeeze> name=blood
20100804 16:56:45< Golbeeze> greater_than_equal_to=50
20100804 16:56:49< Golbeeze> [/variable]
20100804 16:56:50< Golbeeze> [then]
20100804 16:56:53< Golbeeze> [object]
20100804 16:56:55< Golbeeze> etc
20100804 16:56:56< Elvish_Pillage2> uh
20100804 16:57:20< Elvish_Pillage2> okay, you can't put "side=$side" directly in the [if]
20100804 16:57:26< Golbeeze> ok
20100804 16:57:48< Elvish_Pillage2> and there's probably a separate blood variable for each side
20100804 16:57:55< Golbeeze> they are all "blood"
20100804 16:58:05< Elvish_Pillage2> that can't be the variable name
20100804 16:58:09< Elvish_Pillage2> otherwise they'd all be the same number
20100804 16:58:21< Golbeeze> well i'll check again
20100804 16:58:35< Elvish_Pillage2> I'd have to see the code to help you more - is this on the add-on server?
20100804 16:58:53< Golbeeze> yes it is - Kato's Mod
20100804 16:59:03< Golbeeze> there is blood, bloodx, and bloody
20100804 16:59:59< Golbeeze> brb-laundry
20100804 17:02:51< fendrin> timotei: How can I test the grammar?
20100804 17:03:03< timotei> hmm
20100804 17:03:21< fendrin> timotei: Note that starting from source is still broken.
20100804 17:03:28< timotei> for me it works with: CTRL+F11 in the .xtext file
20100804 17:04:10< Golbeeze> EP: back
20100804 17:05:04< Elvish_Pillage2> Golbeeze: okay, looks like you want to add to the SACRIFICE_UNIT macro, which means...
20100804 17:05:27< Golbeeze> yes, that is the one I was looking at
20100804 17:05:42< Elvish_Pillage2> see where it say S[{SIDE}].blood ? that's what you want to write
20100804 17:06:21-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100804 17:06:40< Golbeeze> I see it
20100804 17:06:50< Elvish_Pillage2> ... with a $ in front of it if and only if you want its value instead of its name (which is really confusing)
20100804 17:07:25< Elvish_Pillage2> so you just need [variable] name=S[{SIDE}].blood greater_than_equal_to=50 [/variable].
20100804 17:07:43< Golbeeze> ok good
20100804 17:07:57< Elvish_Pillage2> in this case, S is an array variable - you can see its initial definition in the prestart event
20100804 17:08:08< Golbeeze> ohhhh so that's what an array looks like
20100804 17:08:16< fendrin> timotei: in which category can I find that file?  I know how to find it on disc but not how it is found in eclipse.
20100804 17:08:20< Elvish_Pillage2> (each [value] tag is an element in the array, so the fourth [value] is S[3], for instance)
20100804 17:08:35< fendrin> timotei: got it.
20100804 17:08:40< Golbeeze> I understand
20100804 17:10:30< Elvish_Pillage2> hmm, maybe I should make more simple maps with quirky premises like this
20100804 17:10:38< Golbeeze> They are fun!
20100804 17:10:42< Elvish_Pillage2> heh.
20100804 17:10:50< Elvish_Pillage2> I still shake my game theoretical fist at you!
20100804 17:11:15< Golbeeze> :o
20100804 17:11:40< Elvish_Pillage2> maybe I should make one that's more like the Prisoner's Dilemma
20100804 17:11:51< Golbeeze> that'd work well
20100804 17:11:55< Elvish_Pillage2> ha ha what
20100804 17:12:05< Golbeeze> making a wesnothian Prisoner's Dilemma
20100804 17:12:16< Elvish_Pillage2> I think people would stop playing it soon though
20100804 17:12:20< Elvish_Pillage2> since they'd always lose
20100804 17:12:23< Golbeeze> XD
20100804 17:12:55< Elvish_Pillage2> well, here's the idea I've had:
20100804 17:13:10< Elvish_Pillage2> a players vs. AI scenario, but the players are enemies, and only one player can win.
20100804 17:13:21< Elvish_Pillage2> BUT, the players have to work together to stand a chance against the AI.
20100804 17:13:45< Elvish_Pillage2> so the idea is that they should work together for most of the scenario, but then backstab each other at the end, at which point the AI wins.
20100804 17:14:01< Golbeeze> what would your victory conditions be?
20100804 17:14:06< Elvish_Pillage2> Kill the AI leader.
20100804 17:14:15< Elvish_Pillage2> The player who scores the killing blow wins. Everyone else loses.
20100804 17:14:18< Golbeeze> ah
20100804 17:15:19< Golbeeze> If I make this greater than or equal to 50, will it trigger every time a unit is sacked with high blood?
20100804 17:15:26< Golbeeze> Or will it just happen the first time the blood reaches it.
20100804 17:15:44< Elvish_Pillage2> the condition will succeed whenever the code is reached when you have high blood.
20100804 17:15:51< Golbeeze> ok
20100804 17:16:12< Golbeeze> so then if I also have a greater than 75, they will BOTH trigger?
20100804 17:16:20< Elvish_Pillage2> right
20100804 17:16:24< Golbeeze> ok, good to keep in mind
20100804 17:16:25< Elvish_Pillage2> assuming you have two separate [if] blocks
20100804 17:16:28< Golbeeze> right
20100804 17:16:46< Golbeeze> I guess I could keep them within the same block. (I had only thought of separating them)
20100804 17:18:04< timotei> fendrin: I'm sorry, I was washing the dishes and cleanup the table :P
20100804 17:18:09< timotei> fendrin: I missed that
20100804 17:20:02< Golbeeze> What does the "silent=yes" do in the [object] ? I've always seen it but never looked it up
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20100804 17:22:32< fendrin> timotei: Well, I can test only the downloaded and installed plugin.
20100804 17:22:42< fendrin> timotei: I can't test the source directly anymore.
20100804 17:22:48< timotei> lol
20100804 17:23:03< timotei> umm, ok. let's take it from start
20100804 17:23:20< timotei> if you want to test the gramamar, I'd choose to make a new xtext project
20100804 17:23:25< timotei> and test there, so no conflict with existing code
20100804 17:23:38< timotei> as for that exception I'll try look into it
20100804 17:23:46< timotei> does that happen everytime?
20100804 17:24:19< fendrin> timotei: Yes, I pastebined the output.
20100804 17:24:59< timotei> that is because, I've tried to show a message box, but the workspace isn't started already.
20100804 17:25:06< timotei> that's weird
20100804 17:25:14< timotei> well, I'll just do a more check
20100804 17:26:12< zookeeper> Golbeeze, uh, well, look it up?
20100804 17:26:49< Golbeeze> I did, just thought since I was talking to EP, it'd be faster to ask.
20100804 17:27:04< Elvish_Pillage2> silent=yes makes it not do stupid stupid things
20100804 17:27:12< Elvish_Pillage2> it ought to default to yes.
20100804 17:27:25-!- Amu is now known as Smar
20100804 17:27:39< Golbeeze> What happens when it is no?
20100804 17:27:50-!- Smar [smar@kissatytto.fi] has quit [Changing host]
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20100804 17:27:53< Elvish_Pillage2> oh, it displays a message.
20100804 17:28:03< Golbeeze> a default message?
20100804 17:28:04< Elvish_Pillage2> which is a blank message if you don't specifically say what it should be.
20100804 17:28:06< Golbeeze> ah
20100804 17:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 132 bugs, 283 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100804 17:28:20< Elvish_Pillage2> so basically, the default state (silent=no but no message) is to do something that you never want.
20100804 17:28:51< Golbeeze> I get it.
20100804 17:32:25-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-14-159.telecom.by] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100804 17:35:39< Golbeeze> ok testing
20100804 17:37:55< Golbeeze> yayyyyy
20100804 17:37:57< Golbeeze> Thanks EP! It worked.
20100804 17:38:06< Elvish_Pillage2> noooooo!
20100804 17:38:17 * Golbeeze laughs evilly
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20100804 17:38:43< Elvish_Pillage2> so do you check the blood value before or after it's incremented?
20100804 17:39:36< Golbeeze> It is checked before the new unit is sacrificed.
20100804 17:39:44< Golbeeze> so you have to already be over it for the effect to work.
20100804 17:39:53< Elvish_Pillage2> okay.
20100804 17:39:58< Golbeeze> every 25 blood starting at 50 until 200
20100804 17:40:08< Golbeeze> until 150, then 200
20100804 17:40:16< Golbeeze> the 200 is special =D
20100804 17:40:23< Elvish_Pillage2> heeheehee
20100804 17:40:26< Elvish_Pillage2> hmm.
20100804 17:41:02< Elvish_Pillage2> the cost + XP thing probably makes it heavily dependent on the XP setting
20100804 17:41:24< Elvish_Pillage2> at higher XP costs, you might even want to sacrifice just _before_ levelling to get more blood
20100804 17:41:57< Golbeeze> interesting, I didn't look at how the blood value differed by difficulty
20100804 17:42:09-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100804 17:42:18< Elvish_Pillage2> I meant the XP setting for the players' units.
20100804 17:42:23< Golbeeze> oh wait, I misunderstood that
20100804 17:42:33< Elvish_Pillage2> the blood is the same - always (unit cost) + (unit experience)
20100804 17:42:39< Golbeeze> Indeed....so having a unit with 20 XP and cost 15 gives 35 blood?
20100804 17:42:40< Elvish_Pillage2> brb
20100804 17:42:45< Golbeeze> ok
20100804 17:42:59< Golbeeze> nice to know
20100804 17:44:43< Elvish_Pillage2> yeah
20100804 17:44:49< Elvish_Pillage2> want to play a game with the new rules? :)
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20100804 17:45:00< Golbeeze> yea definitely, just give me one moment
20100804 17:46:13< Golbeeze> ok I am ready
20100804 17:46:17-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100804 17:46:24< Golbeeze> also, moving onto the sac panel reduces moves to 1, not zero
20100804 17:46:32< Elvish_Pillage2> why 1?
20100804 17:46:44< Golbeeze> so you don't lose your leader by accident
20100804 17:46:48< Elvish_Pillage2> uh
20100804 17:46:55< Elvish_Pillage2> that doesn't seem like a good solution
20100804 17:46:57< Golbeeze> i tried it earlier and someone walked onto it before recruiting
20100804 17:47:07< Elvish_Pillage2> you could still lose your leader by accident, later in the game
20100804 17:47:17< Elvish_Pillage2> but you know my opinion :/
20100804 17:47:19< Golbeeze> ok well, it gives a slightly better chance of not screwing up
20100804 17:47:26< Golbeeze> I plan on adding messages
20100804 17:47:31< Elvish_Pillage2> my way gives you a much better chance of not screwing up
20100804 17:47:31< Golbeeze> for now though we'll try it as is
20100804 17:47:37< Golbeeze> what is your way?
20100804 17:47:39< Golbeeze> Not changing it at all?
20100804 17:47:41< Elvish_Pillage2> Leave it how it was.
20100804 17:47:43< Golbeeze> :)
20100804 17:47:57< Elvish_Pillage2> Adding messages? Like, to explain how it works?
20100804 17:48:11< Golbeeze> yes, an explanation in the description, start info, and labels
20100804 17:48:39< Elvish_Pillage2> try not to rely on messages
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20100804 18:09:06< alink> hi
20100804 18:09:12< Golbeeze> EP: I changed the restricted MP back to normal.
20100804 18:09:12< timotei> hi alink :D
20100804 18:09:17< Elvish_Pillage2> :)
20100804 18:09:23< alink> hello timotei
20100804 18:09:23< timotei> hmm, is _initial.cfg the name of the really first one preprocessed?
20100804 18:10:21< alink> wiki says: If there is a file named dir/_initial.cfg in a directory referenced as {dir} (and no main.cfg, so that all files in the directory are processed normally) the _initial.cfg is guaranteed to be processed before all other files in the directory. 
20100804 18:10:44< timotei> so, if there is _main.cfg, _initial is not processed
20100804 18:12:03< alink> in doubt, check the source
20100804 18:12:14< alink> get_files_in_dir() probably
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20100804 18:12:25< timotei> oh, ok
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20100804 18:14:08< alink> hmmm weird code
20100804 18:14:19< timotei> yeah:P
20100804 18:18:22< timotei> hmm, it seems yeah, _main.cfg takes precedence
20100804 18:19:20< alink> at least the intention is if _main.cfg is present, then other files should be ignored, so that should include _initial.cfg
20100804 18:20:39< timotei> ok, officialy this day sucked
20100804 18:21:17< shadowmaster> timotei: I know that feeling.
20100804 18:21:24< shadowmaster> I'm like that atm.
20100804 18:22:06< anonymissimus> make a test ? an utils/ dir with _main, _initial and _final each containing a macro definition and then see which of them get defined
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20100804 18:22:33< fendrin> timotei: :-)
20100804 18:22:52< timotei> fendrin: no... really
20100804 18:22:58< timotei> vs f**ed up 
20100804 18:23:03< timotei> nothing worked
20100804 18:23:30< alink> learning what doesn't work if often useful in coding
20100804 18:23:34< timotei> shadowmaster: hi :P
20100804 18:23:59< alink> s/if/is
20100804 18:24:29-!- stikonas_ [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100804 18:25:10< alink> and some times a bad idea work at the first time, and later you get a maintenance nightmare ;)
20100804 18:25:28-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100804 18:25:29< timotei> yeah...
20100804 18:28:49< alink> zookeeper: your images bug is weird, and indeed my last change should only affect titlescreen, some map UI elements and maybe few GUI buttons
20100804 18:29:39< alink> ah no GUI buttons, they are still hardcoded 
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20100804 18:30:08< alink> (referring to things like buttons/checkbox.png)
20100804 18:34:23< CIA-87> timotei * r45181 /trunk/src/serialization/preprocessor.cpp: 
20100804 18:34:23< CIA-87> optimize the '--preprocess' by not reading the
20100804 18:34:23< CIA-87> preprocessed file when no write to cfg is enabled
20100804 18:34:38< CIA-87> timotei * r45182 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/builder/WesnothProjectBuilder.java: eclipse plugin: stop visiting children if the resource is ignored
20100804 18:34:55< CIA-87> timotei * r45183 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/Activator.java: 
20100804 18:34:55< CIA-87> eclipse plugin: run checkcondition in an UIJob
20100804 18:34:55< CIA-87> to ensure the workbench is created when running it
20100804 18:35:12< CIA-87> timotei * r45184 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/builder/WesnothProjectBuilder.java: eclipse plugin: process _main.cfg before any other files in current directory
20100804 18:36:00< timotei> fendrin: ^ that should fix your earlier error. please check
20100804 18:36:12< fendrin> timotei: Thank you :-)
20100804 18:36:28< timotei> yw
20100804 18:43:08< zookeeper> alink, i still have the build with which i can reproduce; should i keep it or overwrite with the latest one? :P
20100804 18:44:21< alink> maybe just drop some info like last revision working and first not working, or a screenshot if it's only some images
20100804 18:44:53< alink> but if a recent build fix it, we could also just forget about it
20100804 18:45:08< zookeeper> yeah, i'll try the latest one first...
20100804 18:57:37< zookeeper> alink, looks like everything works as usual now, so i'll just forget about it :p
20100804 18:57:54< alink> zookeeper: ok, good :)
20100804 19:02:45< anonymissimus> zookeeper: did the map on the main menu not load with your last built and such ?
20100804 19:03:11< anonymissimus> that happened to me, but now its ok again with the latest revision
20100804 19:07:56< alink> hmm that's start to worry me a little :-/
20100804 19:08:44< alink> maybe I can kill that unused feature about random titlescreen images ?
20100804 19:09:38< alink> why do we stopped doing that? arts problems or design decision to always use the same image ?
20100804 19:10:06 * alink think that always use the same image is better for recognition and PR screenshot
20100804 19:10:40< CIA-87> silene * r45185 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Stored dialog result into replay.
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20100804 19:18:59< timotei> alink: around?
20100804 19:19:11< alink> timotei: yes
20100804 19:20:14< timotei> could you test a patch?:P
20100804 19:20:56< timotei> I don't get it why it doesn't work
20100804 19:21:06< alink> I suppose, if needed. But why? do you think code is OS dependant?
20100804 19:21:07< boucman> hey all
20100804 19:21:12< alink> hi boucman
20100804 19:21:16< timotei> don't knwo
20100804 19:21:21< timotei> I've compiled it under ubuntu too:|
20100804 19:21:40< alink> well I use debian, so result will probably be the same
20100804 19:25:03< CIA-87> alink * r45186 /trunk/data/game_config.cfg: remove unused key
20100804 19:25:12< CIA-87> alink * r45187 /trunk/ (data/game_config.cfg src/gui/dialogs/title_screen.cpp): 
20100804 19:25:12< CIA-87> Kill unused broken feature: use a list of randomly selected images for titlescreen.
20100804 19:25:12< CIA-87> That actually brokes campaign credits when campaign didn't provide images (titlescreen was used as default)
20100804 19:25:40< timotei> ok alink with current trunk, try this:
20100804 19:25:41< alink> I removed it^, no point to maintain something that we don't use
20100804 19:26:03< timotei> wesnoth --preprocess data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere /tmp
20100804 19:26:16< timotei> and tell me how many defines it said it acquired from data/core
20100804 19:26:20< timotei> I got 0
20100804 19:26:21< timotei> :|
20100804 19:26:21< timotei> X*
20100804 19:27:24< alink> I'll add --data-dir .
20100804 19:27:52< timotei> it doesn't matter if you launch it from trunk directly:P
20100804 19:28:49-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100804 19:28:51< alink> I can already tell you that cache affect the output, second run has not the same result as first
20100804 19:29:02< timotei> what cache?
20100804 19:29:18< alink> user cache I guess
20100804 19:29:32< timotei> I'm not using that
20100804 19:29:47< timotei> remember? preprocess is in first round of command line parsing
20100804 19:29:57< alink> right, it looks random, not cache related
20100804 19:30:09< timotei> how many defines you get?
20100804 19:31:01< alink> I got "28 acquired 0 defines." once and now it's random between 1 and 0
20100804 19:31:10< timotei> lol
20100804 19:31:14< timotei> wtf?
20100804 19:31:20< timotei> yesterday it worked:|
20100804 19:31:21< timotei> hmm
20100804 19:31:30< timotei> one sec
20100804 19:31:33< alink> but I always have an error : error config: Macro/file 'MENU_IMG_TXT2'
20100804 19:31:48< timotei> yeah
20100804 19:31:54< timotei> because no common macros are parsed:|
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20100804 19:32:24< timotei> alink: this is what I've done today: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/serialization/preprocessor.cpp?rev=45181&view=diff&r1=45181&r2=45180&p1=trunk/src/serialization/preprocessor.cpp&p2=/trunk/src/serialization/preprocessor.cpp
20100804 19:32:46< timotei> the only thing I can see, it that in first case, the result of preprocess_file is not assigned to anyone
20100804 19:32:49< timotei> myght that be a problem?:|
20100804 19:33:26< timotei> no. it isn't that
20100804 19:33:48< timotei> fendrin: if you are up-to-date with trunk, does it still work for you: wesnoth --preprocess data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere /tmp
20100804 19:33:49< timotei>  ?
20100804 19:33:58< timotei> I mean, copy-paste the log
20100804 19:35:56< fendrin> timotei: compiling...
20100804 19:36:04< timotei> alink: you can use --log-debug=all to see what's going on
20100804 19:36:08< alink> timotei: in any cases you could (maybe should) use a scoped_stream and ignore it if not needed
20100804 19:36:52< alink> *scoped_istream
20100804 19:36:56< timotei> yeah
20100804 19:36:58< timotei> that's done there
20100804 19:37:40< timotei> damn, it I can't see the problem
20100804 19:38:06< alink> note that "N preprocessing finished" has a totally random N here
20100804 19:38:31< alink> even when there is no error like when preprocessing data/core
20100804 19:38:41< timotei> why? I just get SDL_Ticks()
20100804 19:38:57< alink> ?
20100804 19:39:14< timotei> why is N random since I use SDL_Ticks()
20100804 19:39:25< timotei> alink: 20100804 20:38:51 info filesystem: Streaming /mnt/hgfs/E/work/gw/data/core/_main.cfg for reading.
20100804 19:39:29< timotei> it get's 'stuck' there
20100804 19:39:39< timotei> it doesn't process the subsequent macro calls
20100804 19:39:56< alink> I mean when using   --preprocess data/core tmp, it shows 1339 preprocessing finished. but 1339 is relatively random
20100804 19:40:15< timotei> yeah...
20100804 19:40:19< timotei> well, it's a time
20100804 19:40:32< alink> oh ok
20100804 19:40:48< alink> that was not clear output
20100804 19:41:08< timotei> well, can I call the log domain to get a nice 20100804 20:38:51
20100804 19:41:09< timotei> ?
20100804 19:41:11< silene> timotei: if you don't read on the preprocessing output, preprocessing stops
20100804 19:41:12< alink> should add 'ms' or something
20100804 19:41:22< timotei> lol
20100804 19:41:22< timotei> :|
20100804 19:41:28< timotei> damn it
20100804 19:41:48< timotei> silene: thanks for pointing it out
20100804 19:42:23< timotei> but why does it stop?
20100804 19:42:40< fendrin> timotei: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/iNzG2fxn
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20100804 19:42:51< timotei> ok, clear enough
20100804 19:42:52< silene> timotei: because not everybody as a multigygabyte computer that can store the whole wesnoth data without processing it; so it's preprocessed on the fly
20100804 19:42:59< silene> s/as/has/
20100804 19:43:11< timotei> oh
20100804 19:43:14< alink> afk
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20100804 19:44:59< timotei> silene: why store it? doesn't it mean that if I don't get the stream, and read, it will 'vanish'/dissapear?
20100804 19:46:01< silene> timotei: no, preprocessing happens on demand; if you don't read, preprocessing doesn't happen; at any given time, the engine doesn't preprocess more than 3kB of input (i think)
20100804 19:46:32< silene> the preprocessor is designed so that it doesn't use any memory
20100804 19:46:43< timotei> ok;)
20100804 19:47:17< timotei> and I thought vs is stupid. poor vs :D
20100804 19:49:10< timotei> ok, now it works
20100804 19:49:15< timotei> thanks a lot silene :D
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20100804 19:55:36< CIA-87> silene * r45188 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Added setter for unit modifications.
20100804 19:55:41< CIA-87> silene * r45189 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Added test for unit modifications.
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20100804 20:17:29< anonymissimus> may someone have a look at https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16195 and possibly close it please
20100804 20:18:24< timotei> anonymissimus: ask boucman 
20100804 20:19:44< boucman> looking
20100804 20:20:33< zookeeper> argh. why can't [hide_unit] just take a SUF...
20100804 20:21:50< boucman> no, not for me... i'm not at home so don't have access to src.
20100804 20:27:16< timotei> alink: ping me when you're online
20100804 20:28:29< timotei> Upthorn: hey :)
20100804 20:31:35< anonymissimus> zookeeper: I'd expect changing the default to advance=no to introduce bugs
20100804 20:32:27< anonymissimus> there's lots of hidden unstore_unit tags expecting it to be true I'm guessing
20100804 20:33:54< zookeeper> anonymissimus, a lot? i don't think so
20100804 20:34:25< zookeeper> cases where you add XP in an event are pretty rare, and in those cases _not_ specifying advance= regardless of defaults is just dumb
20100804 20:34:55< zookeeper> if you're thinking at all of how advancement should work there...if not, then not advancing is the better default
20100804 20:35:51< anonymissimus> and doing something to prevent infinite loops is bad
20100804 20:36:15< anonymissimus> there could be some feature needing the behavior for whatever
20100804 20:36:37< anonymissimus> the wml author can prevent it himself easily
20100804 20:37:26< anonymissimus> if any, the crash of wesnoth should be prevented
20100804 20:37:37< zookeeper> "and doing something to prevent infinite loops is bad" uh, what? :P
20100804 20:37:49< zookeeper> secondly, changing the default doesn't prevent infinite loops
20100804 20:37:59< zookeeper> it just forces you to be explicit that you want an infinite loop
20100804 20:39:43< anonymissimus> preventing it from the engine side is bad I mean; it's the wml author's job to do that
20100804 20:40:10< zookeeper> sure, whatever
20100804 20:40:29< zookeeper> anyone want to flip that default to no?
20100804 20:41:52< anonymissimus> zookeeper>	cases where you add XP in an event are pretty rare, and in those cases _not_ specifying advance= regardless of defaults is just dumb
20100804 20:42:02< anonymissimus> so you don't rely on default settings ?
20100804 20:42:28< zookeeper> i rely on defaults when there's no need to be really clear about what i want to do
20100804 20:43:01< zookeeper> whether to advance on unstore or not is something i definitely count as one of those cases where i want to be really clear about what i'm trying to do
20100804 20:43:25< zookeeper> (that, and the fact that i just don't remember a lot of the defaults)
20100804 20:44:20< zookeeper> i usually always specify find_vacant= too, since it also immediately tells something about whether i might be overwriting a unit or not
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20100804 20:48:00< zookeeper> to change the default, i think i just need to flip true to false on game_events.cpp:2175, right?
20100804 20:48:12< anonymissimus> and delayed_variable_... too :P
20100804 20:48:47< zookeeper> uh, yeah, that's a good one to be clear about too, since i usually don't remember the default ;)
20100804 20:49:20< zookeeper> good thing i remember what first_time_only= defaults to...that'd be a pain to type every time
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20100804 20:52:29< anonymissimus> relying on default settings is a great help in remembering them :P
20100804 20:57:23< zookeeper> maybe
20100804 20:57:27< zookeeper> ho, sapient
20100804 20:58:03< Sapient> yo zooks
20100804 20:58:51< zookeeper> Sapient, how about giving units a hidden= (yeah, i know the status mod has the same name) key which determines whether they're hidden (as if [hide_unit] was used) or not and then making [hide_unit] simple toggle that on?
20100804 20:59:38< Sapient> no, that would make too much sense
20100804 20:59:47 * Sapient just kidding
20100804 21:00:31< Sapient> the idea seems good. it just needs a coder I guess
20100804 21:00:37< zookeeper> Sapient, also... <zookeeper> to change the default [of [unstore_unit] advance=], i think i just need to flip true to false on game_events.cpp:2175, right?
20100804 21:01:21< Sapient> I guess... I don't have the code up because I'm at work
20100804 21:01:25< zookeeper> oh, right
20100804 21:01:49< zookeeper> i'd like to do that change because of all these annoying infinite advancement loops when people unstore in an advance event
20100804 21:02:04< zookeeper> (and i think it kinda makes sense otherwise too)
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20100804 21:06:14< Sapient> is it really infinite or just a long time?
20100804 21:07:43< zookeeper> well, infinite. http://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16195
20100804 21:08:01< zookeeper> when you unstore the primary unit in an advance event, it advances again, triggers the event again, etc
20100804 21:08:12< zookeeper> (that is, unless you specify advance=no)
20100804 21:08:31< zookeeper> not that i've tested it personally in a long time
20100804 21:10:13< anonymissimus> zookeeper>	i'd like to do that change because of all these annoying infinite advancement loops when people unstore in an advance event
20100804 21:10:22< anonymissimus> does it happen "often" ?
20100804 21:10:48< anonymissimus> as for "infinity", in 1.9 on my pc it was only 199 recursions
20100804 21:12:21< anonymissimus> in 1.8 no chance to get an output but it took 20 secs till crash or so
20100804 21:12:21< anonymissimus> both at max animation speed
20100804 21:12:46< zookeeper> anonymissimus, no, not "often" i guess. probably very often when writing advance events where the primary unit is unstored, though :p
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