--- Log opened Thu Aug 05 02:48:46 2010
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20100805 02:48:54-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 132 bugs, 284 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100805 02:48:54-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] [Wed Aug  4 23:28:19 2010]
20100805 02:48:54[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20100805 02:48:54[ ABCD         ] [ crimson_penguin ] [ Ingmar        ] [ shikadibot] 
20100805 02:48:54[ Aethaeryn    ] [ Daltx`          ] [ isaac         ] [ Sirp      ] 
20100805 02:48:54[ AI0867       ] [ eleazar_        ] [ Ivanovic      ] [ Smar      ] 
20100805 02:48:54[ anonymissimus] [ elias           ] [ iwaim         ] [ Tigge     ] 
20100805 02:48:54[ apoi         ] [ Elvish_Pillage2 ] [ knotwork__    ] [ Upthorn   ] 
20100805 02:48:54[ Appleman1234 ] [ elvish_sovereign] [ koan          ] [ vargis    ] 
20100805 02:48:54[ astraljava   ] [ erl             ] [ lobby         ] [ Vetinari  ] 
20100805 02:48:54[ Blarumyrran  ] [ Espreon         ] [ nguyenatto    ] [ wesbot    ] 
20100805 02:48:54[ Bocom        ] [ ettin           ] [ Rhonda        ] [ yann      ] 
20100805 02:48:54[ Carneus      ] [ fendrin         ] [ rusty         ] 
20100805 02:48:54[ chris|       ] [ freim           ] [ shadowm_laptop] 
20100805 02:48:54[ CIA-87       ] [ Gambit          ] [ shadowmaster  ] 
20100805 02:48:54-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 45 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 45 normal]
20100805 02:48:59-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20100805 02:52:35< Upthorn> hrm. I was hoping crab_ would be around to talk to.
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20100805 04:05:58< CIA-87> eleazar * r45204 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/unwalkable/ (6 files): Convex chasm edges with new side-blending to allow seamless joining with chasms of other colors.
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20100805 04:21:38< alink> site is back but with full cpu usage : http://collectd.wesnoth.org/index.cgi?hostname=wesnoth.wesnoth.org&plugin=cpu&timespan=86400&action=show_selection&ok_button=OK
20100805 04:22:03< shadowmaster> alink: you tell me.
20100805 04:22:11< shadowmaster> I've been monitoring the damn thing for hours through SSH.
20100805 04:22:40< shadowmaster> unfortunately I don't know what the two top-consuming processes are about. I only know they are instances of the Python add-ons client interface
20100805 04:22:42< alink> ok, good that someone check that :)
20100805 04:23:05< shadowmaster> although those are not the targets I'm following anyway
20100805 04:23:31< alink> btw this shutdown seems to have the same time window as the one few days ago
20100805 04:24:11< shadowmaster> don't worry, we talk more stuff than you can see on these IRC channels
20100805 04:24:12< alink> but cpu came back ok the previous time
20100805 04:25:04< alink> "we talk more stuff" ?
20100805 04:25:26< shadowmaster> admin stuff
20100805 04:25:32< shadowmaster> I'm not allowed to disclose that information.
20100805 04:25:43< alink> ah ok I understand now
20100805 04:26:31< alink> well, usually there is often small info here too
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20100805 04:48:37< Upthorn> Hey, I have a somewhat important question regarding my project.
20100805 04:49:38< Upthorn> How can I determine whether the game is currently in single player or multiplayer, from with in a WML handler function?
20100805 04:50:46< Upthorn> crab_ sounded like he had a method for dealing with this in mind when I last talked to him, but I haven't been able to clarify what he meant.
20100805 04:51:11< Upthorn> because MP work was temporarily preempted by another issue
20100805 04:54:10< Upthorn> somebody said something about counting the number of open connections, but I've no idea how to do that.
20100805 04:54:39< alink> yeah I think that some commands are blocked using that
20100805 04:54:53< alink> maybe the talk action use that too
20100805 04:55:31< alink> do_debug()  use  if (network::nconnections() == 0)
20100805 04:56:16< alink> and it seems that we often test is network::nconnections() == 0
20100805 04:56:21< alink> s/is/if
20100805 04:57:38< alink> hopefully one of these cases is similart to what you need
20100805 04:57:44< alink> *similar
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20100805 05:42:44< Upthorn> alink: yes, that looks like it is exactly what I need. thank you.
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20100805 07:39:30< Upthorn> hey, Crab_, I was hoping to talk with you.
20100805 07:40:27< Crab_> hi, Upthorn
20100805 07:40:49< Crab_> we can talk now, if it's ok for you
20100805 07:41:03< Upthorn> that is what I meant, yes.
20100805 07:42:14< Upthorn> Crab_: a while back you mentioned the idea of writing a lua wrapper for *_global_variable which checks for side during multiplayer
20100805 07:42:46< Crab_> yes, lua allows to create new tags
20100805 07:43:11< Upthorn> I'm finally starting to work on multiplayer (got sidetracked fixing SP replay sync), so I wanted to know more about what you had in mind
20100805 07:44:04< Crab_> good.
20100805 07:44:04< Crab_> take a look at data\lua\wml-tags.lua
20100805 07:44:49< Upthorn> I was also wondering if there is any particular reason not to do this in c++
20100805 07:44:56< Crab_> no, whatever is easier for you
20100805 07:45:14< Crab_> I thought that it might be easier to reuse the MP sync framework silene has exposed through lua
20100805 07:45:49< Upthorn> Oh. Well I ended up using that framework in c++ to fix the single player replay desync issue
20100805 07:46:20< Crab_> yes, if you're already spent time figuring out how to work with it in c++, it's ok to do it in c++, too
20100805 07:46:24< Upthorn> though I think that I may have to adapt it slightly to allow for decisions to be made by players other than the active one
20100805 07:47:17< Crab_> I think that most important is to get a proof-of-concept working. for that proof-of-concept, it's ok even if only the active side would be able to do decisions.
20100805 07:47:45< Crab_> then we'll be able to say 'ok, SP persistence works, MP persistence works with the following restrictions, but we're working on improving it'
20100805 07:48:44< Upthorn> Okay. I have not yet tested, but I believe that fixing SP replay sync should allow MP to work as-is, if we don't need to allow variables to be read from other players
20100805 07:49:52< Crab_> I think that it will be a good thing if you tested it, and, say, made a MP scenario with a proof-of-concept for that, and, for example, uploaded it to trunk addon server.
20100805 07:50:25< Crab_> it would allow us to think 'ok, basic things are done, there's no reason to get nervous, and we can continue to hack code improving things'
20100805 07:51:05< Crab_> what do you think ?
20100805 07:51:34< Upthorn> That seems very reasonable.
20100805 07:52:39< Upthorn> Actually, I just realized there's a couple of thins to do still regarding replays
20100805 07:53:02< Crab_> yes, that's why it's best to test, to make sure it works and doesn't require any last-minute changes )
20100805 07:53:16< Upthorn> I need to dummy out [set_global_variable] and [clear_global_variable] during replay.
20100805 07:53:58< Upthorn> so that when you watch a replay from your savegames, it doesn't make modify the persist data files
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20100805 07:54:31< Crab_> Upthorn: yes, true
20100805 07:54:58< Crab_> and [get_global_variable] uses the data it has written to replay earlier (by sync framework), right ?
20100805 07:55:13< Upthorn> yes.
20100805 07:55:36< Upthorn> but, as a result, can no longer be used during "start" and "prestart" events.
20100805 07:56:30< Upthorn> silene got very upset when I changed things to allow for that...
20100805 07:56:52< Crab_> well, he usually gets upset if something is broken, yes )
20100805 07:57:35< Crab_> it's important to document the ways in which it's safe to use.
20100805 07:57:41< Upthorn> it didn't actually break anything! I added a special override that was only used from get_global_variable... :)
20100805 07:58:12< Upthorn> (I was practically asleep at the time, so a quick and dirty hack like that seemed reasonable)
20100805 07:58:57< Crab_> Upthorn: yes, I've seen that it got reverted in the end. nevertheless, it should be usable from synchronized events, right ?
20100805 07:59:07< Upthorn> yeah
20100805 07:59:38< Upthorn> it's usable from synchronized events.
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20100805 08:00:15< Upthorn> Oh, I also wanted to ask you how to make it a fatal error when [get_global_variable] is used in non-synchronized events.
20100805 08:00:40< Crab_> the most important part is to document it
20100805 08:00:51< Upthorn> the kind that makes a button pop up saying "WML error" and returns to main menu.
20100805 08:01:45< Crab_> we can ask esr to add wmllint checks for those tags in start/prestart events.
20100805 08:02:10< Crab_> that way it would be detected without even launching the game, via wmllint directly or via timotei's plugin support for wmllint
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20100805 08:03:33< Crab_> then, the wiki says that 'side X turn Y' is synchronized in trunk
20100805 08:03:41< Upthorn> Crab_: on the subject of documenting things, I've forgotten how to make something bold in the wiki.
20100805 08:04:08< Crab_> '''text'''
20100805 08:04:31< Upthorn> oh, I stopped short when '' gave me italics
20100805 08:04:43< Crab_> you were on the correct route :)
20100805 08:05:09< Crab_> so, I'd say that after getting everything working for active side, it'll be a good thing to check if 'side 1 turn 1' allow to get persistent wml variables for all other non active sides, as well.
20100805 08:05:39< Upthorn> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/PersistenceWML#Overview
20100805 08:07:31< Upthorn> Is that sufficient?
20100805 08:08:31< Crab_> might be. I'd add a bit :)
20100805 08:08:35< Crab_> take a look at the page :)
20100805 08:09:30< Upthorn> I see. That should do just fine :)
20100805 08:10:45< Crab_> ok. then, I'd wait till you check if MP works, for 'side 1 turn 1', for active side and other sides. If there are issues that are unclear-how-to-fix, tell about it.
20100805 08:11:35< Upthorn> Crab_: alright, I'll do that. Thanks!
20100805 08:11:56< Crab_> both MP and hotseat are to be tested, just in case
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20100805 08:12:17< Upthorn> Oh, I wanted to talk about hotseat
20100805 08:13:14< Crab_> hotseat is SP, but you control many sides.
20100805 08:13:22< Upthorn> since both players are on the same computer, using the same data, persistence should be work as single player, right?
20100805 08:13:25< Crab_> yes
20100805 08:13:30< Upthorn> with no need for "side="
20100805 08:13:43< Crab_> yes. but if side= is given, it is to be used
20100805 08:13:56< Crab_> it'll give you 'it's local side' result, of course
20100805 08:14:07< Upthorn> okay.
20100805 08:14:20< Crab_> MP scenarios can be played as hotseat scenarios, so MP code should work for hotseat, too
20100805 08:14:32< Crab_> and a save from SP/hotseat might be continued in MP
20100805 08:14:49< Upthorn> that makes sense
20100805 08:15:00< Crab_> so, it's just the same process of 'get side, figure out if it's local or network, do the right thing'
20100805 08:15:22< Upthorn> additionally, it would allow for a future time when user profiles exist in wesnoth
20100805 08:15:26< Crab_> yes.
20100805 08:15:47< Upthorn> so that the different sides in hotseat could actually be using different files.
20100805 08:16:11< Upthorn> So, I have a question
20100805 08:16:13< Crab_> note that it's already possible in wml
20100805 08:16:27< Crab_> since we can have different persistence data depending on, say, leader name.
20100805 08:16:57< Crab_> e.g. the author might construct the namespace/name of the global variable taking player's name into account.
20100805 08:17:18< Upthorn> that's true, but side= isn't needed to determine the file in that case
20100805 08:17:37< Crab_> yes, side= will give 'it's local' result, the files will be the same
20100805 08:17:55< Upthorn> Is there a good way to tell whether the game is currently in "single player" or "hotseat multiplayer"?
20100805 08:18:21< Upthorn> when I asked earlier about checking for multiplayer, people told me to use network::nconnections()
20100805 08:18:35< Crab_> that's for 'true' MP
20100805 08:18:53< Upthorn> right, obviously it wouldn't work for hotseat
20100805 08:20:19< Crab_> is there any reason to treat SP and hotseat differently ?
20100805 08:20:30< Crab_> note that there are SP campaigns where you control multiple sides
20100805 08:20:52< Upthorn> I suppose I could just have it check if the side is human or not
20100805 08:21:23< Crab_> is there any reason to treat local human and local ai differently ?
20100805 08:21:35< Crab_> note that the player can play hotseat against ai, as well.
20100805 08:22:26< Upthorn> I was thinking about forwards compatibility with user profiles
20100805 08:22:52< Upthorn> because ai players wouldn't have profiles
20100805 08:23:00< Upthorn> but I think I'm overengineering again.
20100805 08:23:32< Crab_> well, for most other side-dependent tags, it works this way:
20100805 08:23:44< Crab_> side is not required, when it's omitted, side=1 is assumed
20100805 08:24:34< Crab_> so, you can treat everything the way you treat it in MP
20100805 08:24:47< Crab_> so, the actual handler will *always* have the side information available
20100805 08:25:01< Crab_> so, later, it will be able to do a get_profile_for_side(int side) call
20100805 08:25:46< Crab_> and then use this profile, for example replacing persist_context &ctx = resources::persist->get_context((pcfg["namespace"])); with   persist_context &ctx = resources::profile_manager->get_profile_for_side(side).get_context((pcfg["namespace"]));
20100805 08:26:22< Crab_> so, your code is already quite compatible with profiles
20100805 08:26:48< Crab_> since we abstracted away the actual location of the persistence data behind the 'context'
20100805 08:26:54< Upthorn> Okay.
20100805 08:27:01< Crab_> and we can construct it taking the side/profile info into account.
20100805 08:50:04< shadowmaster> hm.
20100805 08:50:47< shadowmaster> how odd, I'd swear that my laptop is writing to USB drives synchronously despite usbmount's onfig specifying nosync
20100805 08:51:25< shadowmaster> bleh, nosync doesn't exist. I mean it doesn't speccify sync
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20100805 08:54:47< shadowmaster> turns out speifying "async" fixes that. For some reason "sync" appears to be the default :/
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20100805 09:05:00< silene> shadowmaster: sync is the default because people usually unplug usb devices while mounted
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20100805 09:44:54< Ivanovic> moin
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20100805 09:46:56< Ivanovic> moin
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20100805 10:05:44< boucman> morning Ivanovic 
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20100805 10:27:28< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45205 /trunk/data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/scenarios/10_Alone_at_Last.cfg: Fixed a few WML bugs and made Dela appear on her own side turn and thus recruit immediately on arrival.
20100805 10:33:06< CIA-87> silene * r45206 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Removed all the error logs for preprocessing, since they are useless now that preprocessor errors are no longer silent.
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20100805 10:57:19< zookeeper> i wonder if anyone reported any problems with the macro i pastebinned just before quitting last night? the irclogs weren't getting updated then.
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20100805 11:11:37< Ivanovic> zookeeper: no, there was no reply
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20100805 11:13:52< zookeeper> Ivanovic, ok, thanks.
20100805 11:15:30< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45207 /trunk/data/campaigns/An_Orcish_Incursion/scenarios/ (6 files): Converted carryover notes in AOI to use the [gold_carryover] tag.
20100805 11:16:18< Ivanovic> zookeeper: it would be really cool if you had a look over two brothers to make sure that the wml is up to date there, too
20100805 11:16:32< Ivanovic> (as in gold carryover and whatever is common these days for the other mainline campaigns)
20100805 11:19:06< zookeeper> mmh, ok
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20100805 11:20:38< fendrin> timotei: hello
20100805 11:20:46< timotei> morning
20100805 11:20:48< timotei> hi fendrin 
20100805 11:21:52< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45208 /trunk/data/campaigns/Dead_Water/scenarios/ (9 files): Converted carryover notes in DW to use the [gold_carryover] tag. Also some tabs-to-spaces.
20100805 11:21:53< Ivanovic> wow, i am up before timotei is
20100805 11:21:55< Ivanovic> ;)
20100805 11:22:04< timotei> :P
20100805 11:22:09< timotei> I was doing maths this morning :D
20100805 11:22:34< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45209 /trunk/po/ (4 files in 4 dirs): updated Galician translation
20100805 11:22:45< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45210 /branches/1.8/po/wesnoth-sotbe/gl.po: updated Galician translation
20100805 11:22:47< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45211 /trunk/data/campaigns/Dead_Water/scenarios/09_The_Mage.cfg: Moved some [clear_variable]s outside of an [endlevel].
20100805 11:25:24< fendrin> timotei: grammar2.zip is corrupt.
20100805 11:25:30< timotei> umm
20100805 11:25:35< timotei> the archive?
20100805 11:25:39< fendrin> yes
20100805 11:25:46< fendrin> I was not able to unpack it.
20100805 11:25:56< timotei> weird, I packed it as the last time
20100805 11:25:59< timotei> re-uploading then
20100805 11:26:25< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45212 /trunk/data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/scenarios/ (3 files): Converted carryover notes in TB to use the [gold_carryover] tag.
20100805 11:27:06< timotei> fendrin: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/462510/grammar3.zip
20100805 11:27:48< fendrin> 3MB ?
20100805 11:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 132 bugs, 285 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100805 11:28:20< timotei> no
20100805 11:28:26< timotei> it's 1.3 MB
20100805 11:33:19< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45213 /branches/1.8/ (54 files in 2 dirs): add a pofix entry for a capitalization fix in the credits
20100805 11:34:44< zookeeper> Ivanovic, the WML in TB is so simple that i don't really see much to update there
20100805 11:35:08< Ivanovic> zookeeper: yeah, i know that it is simple (this is intentional), just want to be sure that there is nothing to update
20100805 11:35:14< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45214 /branches/1.8/po/ (127 files in 23 dirs): pot-update (reference update only, no new/changed strings)
20100805 11:35:18< zookeeper> i could do a bunch of really minor tweaks here and there but it's not really worth the trouble IMO
20100805 11:35:26< Ivanovic> mkay
20100805 11:36:01< fendrin> timotei: org.eclipse.ui.PartInitException: No editor descriptor for id org.WML
20100805 11:36:25< timotei> hmm
20100805 11:36:33< timotei> that is from the last grammar, from yesterday
20100805 11:36:46< timotei> the grammar3 archive is on namespace: org.wesnoth.wml
20100805 11:37:43< Ivanovic> wow, wesnoth iphone port (the gpl stuff) on a german it news site (one of the larger ones): http://www.golem.de/1008/76999.html
20100805 11:42:55< fendrin> timotei: I downloaded your last link, its nammed grammar3.
20100805 11:42:59< timotei> YES
20100805 11:43:03< timotei> sorry for caps
20100805 11:43:07< fendrin> timotei: removed everything else and tried it again.
20100805 11:43:41< fendrin> timotei: Now I get the error during generation of the grammar: 
20100805 11:43:42< fendrin> [main] ERROR mf.mwe2.launch.runtime.Mwe2Launcher  - Couldn't find module with name 'org.wesnoth.WML'.
20100805 11:43:44< fendrin> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Couldn't find module with name 'org.wesnoth.WML'.
20100805 11:46:51< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45215 /trunk/data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/scenarios/ (10 files): Converted carryover notes in DiD to use the [gold_carryover] tag.
20100805 11:47:30< timotei> fendrin: for me it works.
20100805 11:48:13< timotei> try generating again the grammar, nevertheless the errors existing
20100805 11:49:01< fendrin> timotei: Grammar generation does not finish because of that error. It is an exception that is thrown during the generation.
20100805 11:49:49< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45216 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/05b_Isle_of_the_Damned.cfg: Upped the turn limit by one and removed starting villages from the enemies in order to slow down their initial rush a bit. Also added a few TODO notes.
20100805 11:52:32< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45217 /trunk/data/core/macros/ai_controller.cfg: A partial rewrite of the AI controller to make it more customizable.
20100805 12:00:18< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45218 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/ (24 files): Converted carryover notes in HttT to use the [gold_carryover] tag.
20100805 12:00:44< timotei> :|
20100805 12:01:12< timotei> I don't know what to say... it shouldn't do that
20100805 12:06:54< fendrin> timotei: Okay, tried from scratch again.
20100805 12:06:59< fendrin> timotei: More luck this time.
20100805 12:07:04< timotei> :D
20100805 12:07:04< timotei> goo
20100805 12:07:07< timotei> good*
20100805 12:07:18< fendrin> timotei: But the resulting application is not going to highlight correctly.
20100805 12:07:27< timotei> in which way higlight?
20100805 12:08:12< fendrin> timotei: Well, the "Error log" is full of problems and the file is only partly highlighted and does have strange errors inside.
20100805 12:08:24< timotei> well
20100805 12:08:30< timotei> try: project->cleanup
20100805 12:08:41< timotei> usually that 're'builds' from scratch using current grammar
20100805 12:09:38< fendrin> eclipse.buildId=I20100608-0911
20100805 12:09:40< fendrin> java.version=1.6.0_18
20100805 12:09:41< fendrin> java.vendor=Sun Microsystems Inc.
20100805 12:09:43< fendrin> BootLoader constants: OS=linux, ARCH=x86, WS=gtk, NL=en_US
20100805 12:09:44< fendrin> Framework arguments:  -product org.eclipse.platform.ide
20100805 12:09:46< fendrin> Command-line arguments:  -product org.eclipse.platform.ide -data /home/fabi/workspace/../runtime-New_configuration -dev file:/home/fabi/workspace/.metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.pde.core/New_configuration_test/dev.properties -os linux -ws gtk -arch x86 -consoleLog
20100805 12:09:47< fendrin> Error
20100805 12:09:49< fendrin> Thu Aug 05 11:35:24 CEST 2010
20100805 12:09:50< fendrin> Unable to create editor ID org.WML: No editor descriptor for id org.WML
20100805 12:09:52< fendrin> org.eclipse.ui.PartInitException: No editor descriptor for id org.WML
20100805 12:09:54< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.EditorReference.createPartHelper(EditorReference.java:601)
20100805 12:09:55< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.EditorReference.createPart(EditorReference.java:465)
20100805 12:09:56< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.WorkbenchPartReference.getPart(WorkbenchPartReference.java:595)
20100805 12:09:58< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.EditorAreaHelper.setVisibleEditor(EditorAreaHelper.java:271)
20100805 12:09:59< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.EditorManager.setVisibleEditor(EditorManager.java:1429)
20100805 12:10:01< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.EditorManager$5.runWithException(EditorManager.java:942)
20100805 12:10:02< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.StartupThreading$StartupRunnable.run(StartupThreading.java:31)
20100805 12:10:04< fendrin> at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.RunnableLock.run(RunnableLock.java:35)
20100805 12:10:05< fendrin> at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Synchronizer.runAsyncMessages(Synchronizer.java:134)
20100805 12:10:07< fendrin> at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display.runAsyncMessages(Display.java:3527)
20100805 12:10:08< fendrin> at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display.readAndDispatch(Display.java:3174)
20100805 12:10:10< timotei> ops:))
20100805 12:10:10< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.application.WorkbenchAdvisor.openWindows(WorkbenchAdvisor.java:803)
20100805 12:10:11< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.Workbench$31.runWithException(Workbench.java:1566)
20100805 12:10:13< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.StartupThreading$StartupRunnable.run(StartupThreading.java:31)
20100805 12:10:14< fendrin> at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.RunnableLock.run(RunnableLock.java:35)
20100805 12:10:16< fendrin> at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Synchronizer.runAsyncMessages(Synchronizer.java:134)
20100805 12:10:17< fendrin> at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display.runAsyncMessages(Display.java:3527)
20100805 12:10:19< fendrin> at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display.readAndDispatch(Display.java:3174)
20100805 12:10:20< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.Workbench.runUI(Workbench.java:2537)
20100805 12:10:22< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.Workbench.access$4(Workbench.java:2427)
20100805 12:10:23< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.Workbench$7.run(Workbench.java:670)
20100805 12:10:24< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45219 /trunk/data/campaigns/Sceptre_of_Fire/scenarios/ (6 files): Converted carryover notes in SoF to use the [gold_carryover] tag.
20100805 12:10:25< fendrin> at org.eclipse.core.databinding.observable.Realm.runWithDefault(Realm.java:332)
20100805 12:10:26< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.Workbench.createAndRunWorkbench(Workbench.java:663)
20100805 12:10:28< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.PlatformUI.createAndRunWorkbench(PlatformUI.java:149)
20100805 12:10:29< fendrin> at org.eclipse.ui.internal.ide.application.IDEApplication.start(IDEApplication.java:115)
20100805 12:10:31< fendrin> at org.eclipse.equinox.internal.app.EclipseAppHandle.run(EclipseAppHandle.java:196)
20100805 12:10:32< fendrin> at org.eclipse.core.runtime.internal.adaptor.EclipseAppLauncher.runApplication(EclipseAppLauncher.java:110)
20100805 12:10:34< fendrin> at org.eclipse.core.runtime.internal.adaptor.EclipseAppLauncher.start(EclipseAppLauncher.java:79)
20100805 12:10:35< fendrin> at org.eclipse.core.runtime.adaptor.EclipseStarter.run(EclipseStarter.java:369)
20100805 12:10:37< fendrin> at org.eclipse.core.runtime.adaptor.EclipseStarter.run(EclipseStarter.java:179)
20100805 12:10:38< fendrin> at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
20100805 12:10:40< fendrin> at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:57)
20100805 12:10:41< fendrin> at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43)
20100805 12:10:43< fendrin> at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:616)
20100805 12:10:44< fendrin> at org.eclipse.equinox.launcher.Main.invokeFramework(Main.java:619)
20100805 12:10:46< fendrin> at org.eclipse.equinox.launcher.Main.basicRun(Main.java:574)
20100805 12:10:47< fendrin> at org.eclipse.equinox.launcher.Main.run(Main.java:1407)
20100805 12:10:49< fendrin> at org.eclipse.equinox.launcher.Main.main(Main.java:1383)
20100805 12:10:50 * fendrin is sorry. Did not know that this would paste more than 2 lines.
20100805 12:11:27< timotei> ok, I still don't get it why it's describing things about org.WML
20100805 12:12:11< timotei> let's check something
20100805 12:12:34< timotei> but better, do this: delete the project, close eclipse with the close button, launch it again
20100805 12:12:37< timotei> and create again a project
20100805 12:12:39< timotei> and a cfg file
20100805 12:12:49< timotei> maybe it still gotten old bindings with yesterday's editor
20100805 12:13:18< Upthorn> fendrin: this is why I've developed the habit of pasting into a text editor first
20100805 12:13:26< Upthorn> then from there into IRC
20100805 12:13:38< fendrin> Upthorn: Right, I was lazy. Sorry.
20100805 12:13:39< timotei> Upthorn: I hope not in that stupid notepad
20100805 12:13:53< timotei> Upthorn: I'm trying to find a way to replace the notepad.exe with notepad++.exe's
20100805 12:14:11< Upthorn> why would anyone ever use notepad when windows comes with wordpad?
20100805 12:14:32< timotei> lol?
20100805 12:14:36< fendrin> timotei: When eclipse is started empty without any projects (The hosted version) I still get this errors.
20100805 12:14:40< Soliton> this is why your IRC client ask for confirmation when pasting more than X lines. ;-)
20100805 12:14:45< Upthorn> it's not the best one ever, but it's pretty inoffensive
20100805 12:14:53< timotei> Upthorn: windows 7 or xp?
20100805 12:14:57< Upthorn> XP
20100805 12:15:09< timotei> well, trust me, when you're trying notepad++ you won't let it go:D
20100805 12:15:26< Upthorn> I use crimson editor for anything that matters
20100805 12:15:32< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45220 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/ (10 files): Converted carryover notes in THoT to use the [gold_carryover] tag. Also a pile of tabs-to-spaces, hopefully no one minds.
20100805 12:15:39< timotei> fendrin: ok, so you deleted any projects exiting
20100805 12:15:46< timotei> fendrin: close any editor pages still open
20100805 12:15:48< Upthorn> but wordpad loads faster if I just need a spot to paste to for a moment
20100805 12:15:48< timotei> and create one new
20100805 12:16:02< fendrin> there is no editor page open
20100805 12:16:11< timotei> well, where you got that errors?
20100805 12:16:21< timotei> if not editor is open?
20100805 12:18:06< fendrin> timotei: In the "Error log" tab to the south of eclipse.
20100805 12:18:10< timotei> oh
20100805 12:18:13< timotei> screw that
20100805 12:18:19< timotei> it mantains old errors
20100805 12:18:20< timotei> :P
20100805 12:18:27< timotei> you should open the
20100805 12:18:31< timotei> Problems perspective
20100805 12:18:35< timotei> that's the 'realtime' one
20100805 12:18:41< timotei> boucman: hey :)
20100805 12:19:40-!- Trilby [~Augustus@87.114.205.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 12:19:59< fendrin> timotei: Okay, new project. Still no highlighting.
20100805 12:20:24< timotei> well, it doesn't do any highlighting. that's why I trimmed down our current code, so it won't hang arround
20100805 12:20:34< timotei> but it should recognize most wml syntax
20100805 12:20:39< timotei> without triggering errors
20100805 12:24:05< fendrin> timotei: Well, it does. There are only a few errors left. 
20100805 12:24:17< timotei> ok
20100805 12:24:19< fendrin> timotei: Exactly those I liked to fix have gone away now.
20100805 12:24:27< timotei> hmm
20100805 12:24:51< timotei> well, it depends on the context for the error to appear
20100805 12:25:30< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45221 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/scenarios/ (19 files): Converted carryover notes in TRoW to use the [gold_carryover] tag.
20100805 12:26:40< timotei> hehe, fendrin I just thought of a way to preprocess the core macros only once :D
20100805 12:27:01< timotei> is a problem if we base (for now) that the data/core won't change much in the meantime the user edits wml?
20100805 12:27:03< fendrin> timotei: That makes a lot of sense.
20100805 12:27:23< fendrin> timotei: I guess you can bet that core won't change at all.
20100805 12:27:31< timotei> fendrin: so I'd check the data/core once per session
20100805 12:27:35< timotei> ok
20100805 12:27:50< timotei> so we go for a 'forever-cache' until user reloads the cache by himself?
20100805 12:27:50< fendrin> If not installing a new version of wesnoth or work on trunk yourselve during the same time.
20100805 12:28:32< timotei> right
20100805 12:28:40< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45222 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Hammer_of_Thursagan/scenarios/ (10 files): Added missing [gold_carryover] bonus=yes attributes.
20100805 12:30:40< fendrin> timotei: ftu scenario #1 is error free. I can't use that since nearly all errors are gone.
20100805 12:31:03< timotei> well, isn't good errors are gone?
20100805 12:32:34< CIA-87> silene * r45223 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Added getter for active unit abilities.
20100805 12:32:38< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45224 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/ (8 files): Converted carryover notes in TSG to use the [gold_carryover] tag.
20100805 12:32:38< fendrin> timotei: No, that is still your original grammar. The file should be full of errors. 
20100805 12:32:52< timotei> ftu scenario#1
20100805 12:32:54< timotei> what is ftu?
20100805 12:32:57< timotei> so I can test
20100805 12:33:30< fendrin> timotei: IftU Invasion from the Unknown, shadowmaster's addon campaign.
20100805 12:33:41< timotei> oh
20100805 12:33:54< timotei> that means I have to install it?
20100805 12:35:48< fendrin> yes :-)
20100805 12:36:05< CIA-87> silene * r45225 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Added test for ability getter.
20100805 12:36:29< timotei> couldn't you test it on a mainline?:D
20100805 12:37:07< timotei> it's better to do the grammar for the 'correct' way of programming
20100805 12:37:14< timotei> and only then to get extra-cases in the grammar
20100805 12:37:54< timotei> on what server is iftu?
20100805 12:37:56< timotei> 1.8?
20100805 12:37:58< timotei> or trunk
20100805 12:38:08< fendrin> 1.8
20100805 12:38:26< fendrin> timotei: I have already testet mainline scenarios. The errors are gone.
20100805 12:38:32< timotei> hmm
20100805 12:38:34< timotei> can't be
20100805 12:38:35< timotei> :P
20100805 12:39:34< timotei> I get  for example errors on:
20100805 12:40:24< timotei> 07_Crossroads
20100805 12:40:27< timotei> heir to the throne
20100805 12:44:54< fendrin> timotei: I have errors there as well.
20100805 12:45:01< fendrin> timotei: but not all I expect.
20100805 12:45:02< timotei> :-)
20100805 12:45:12< timotei> well, I just copied the scenarios+_main.cfg
20100805 12:45:16< timotei> from the first 3-4 campaigns
20100805 12:45:20< timotei> and copied in the test project
20100805 12:45:30< timotei> but it's better to check just with a few scenarios
20100805 12:45:44< fendrin> timotei: I have no _main.cfg 
20100805 12:46:02< timotei> I searched for *.cfg files in data/campaigns
20100805 12:46:08< timotei> and copyed the first x files:P
20100805 12:48:18< fendrin> timotei: So how does a project have to look to go well?
20100805 12:48:35< fendrin> scenario folders at toplevel?
20100805 12:48:58< timotei> well
20100805 12:49:03< timotei> it doesn't matter that
20100805 12:49:08< timotei> it just checks .cfg locally
20100805 12:49:20< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45226 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/ (9 files): Converted carryover notes in UtBS to use the [gold_carryover] tag.
20100805 12:50:25< boucman> timotei: you called ?
20100805 12:50:43< timotei> boucman: yeah, but got a better idea in the meantine :P
20100805 12:50:57< timotei> boucman: thanks anyway
20100805 12:51:08< boucman> np :)
20100805 12:51:22< timotei> fendrin: so just copy some files and you'll see the erorrs
20100805 12:51:34< timotei> after each grammar update+generation, you should 'clean' all projects
20100805 12:51:38< timotei> so it reparse each file
20100805 12:52:05< fendrin> timotei: So why does the iftu campaign not show it's errors anymore? Because I copied  a single scenario and not the _main.cfg?
20100805 12:52:13< timotei> hmm
20100805 12:52:18< timotei> because it's cached
20100805 12:52:24< timotei> it uses the same mechanism as java's one
20100805 12:52:31< timotei> so you'd have to cleanup the project
20100805 12:52:35< timotei> to reparse everything
20100805 12:53:01< timotei> lol, used 'boolean' in C++ and didn't know why there is error :))
20100805 12:55:45< timotei> brb 5 mins
20100805 12:55:47< timotei> rest break
20100805 13:03:50< timotei> back
20100805 13:05:12< timotei> Crab_: hey
20100805 13:10:30< fendrin> timotei: cleaning the project doesn't work either. I am giving up on this now.
20100805 13:11:28< Crab_> hi, timotei
20100805 13:11:32< timotei> fendrin: :(
20100805 13:11:49< timotei> fendrin: well, then just work on the current project
20100805 13:12:01< timotei> fendrin: that should really work
20100805 13:12:09< timotei> Crab_: you know any good java xml parsers?
20100805 13:12:21< timotei> Crab_: I don't like the default sax implementation
20100805 13:12:54< Crab_> timotei: no, default implementation (usually, combined with some adhoc state machine) works fine for me.
20100805 13:17:12< fendrin> timotei: The plugin is crashing after workspace setup.
20100805 13:19:10< zookeeper> fendrin, uh, isn't LoW's carryover messed up? the first scenario uses the new method while the rest of the campaign doesn't?
20100805 13:19:55< fendrin> zookeeper: There are several scenarios that uses the old and some use the new one. I put it in use when I thought it would make sense for that scenario and it's context.
20100805 13:20:39< timotei> fendrin: crashing as in, you can't use?
20100805 13:20:46< zookeeper> fendrin, okay then
20100805 13:21:07< timotei> fendrin: one second, I'm reverting that  fix I did yesterday
20100805 13:21:43< fendrin> timotei: restarting eclipse works, there is still an error but I can open scenarios.
20100805 13:21:59< timotei> fendrin: yeah, an eror telling about: 'checkConditions' tight?
20100805 13:22:10< fendrin> timotei: Did you work on the grammar? There are much less errors left.
20100805 13:22:16< timotei> fendrin: no
20100805 13:22:24< timotei> maybe it's magic:))
20100805 13:22:26< fendrin> timotei: Yes, it is the checkConditions error.
20100805 13:22:47< timotei> fendrin: I'm gonna work today on the importing of that defines file:D
20100805 13:23:06-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: knotwork__
20100805 13:23:14< timotei> maybe later I'll have macro completion working
20100805 13:23:17< timotei> I hope so
20100805 13:23:23< fendrin> timotei: Strings are no longer highlighted now.
20100805 13:23:24< CIA-87> timotei * r45227 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/Activator.java: Revert r45183
20100805 13:23:35< timotei> just click in the file once?
20100805 13:23:39< CIA-87> timotei * r45228 /trunk/ (doc/man/wesnoth.6 src/game.cpp): 
20100805 13:23:39< CIA-87> allow skipping data/core in the '--preprocess' command
20100805 13:23:39< CIA-87> through define SKIP_CORE
20100805 13:23:49< timotei> fendrin: ok, update the trunk and you won't get the error anymore ^
20100805 13:23:58< CIA-87> gabba * r45229 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Whiteboard: added skeleton for the recall action.
20100805 13:23:58-!- EdB [~edb@tss37-1-89-84-18-220.dsl.club-internet.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100805 13:24:05< CIA-87> gabba * r45230 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Whiteboard: code for recall interception.
20100805 13:30:58-!- Netsplit over, joins: knotwork__
20100805 13:36:02< fendrin> timotei: the error is not gone and it is craching all the time.
20100805 13:37:23< fendrin> timotei: but maybe I can work with this.
20100805 13:37:34< timotei> ok
20100805 13:37:42< timotei> I really don't know why there are such errors
20100805 13:37:53< timotei> they shouldn't be:-/
20100805 13:39:59-!- astraljava [astraljava@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20100805 13:45:46< fendrin> timotei: Are you fine with making yes and no keywords that get a certain colour?
20100805 13:45:57< timotei> of course
20100805 13:46:01< timotei> anything can be customized :)
20100805 13:46:15< timotei> I even though of adding colors to preprocessor commands;)
20100805 13:46:22< timotei> but that's after I finish the 'required' things :D
20100805 13:46:37< timotei> fendrin: if you want, please make an exact list of things to do
20100805 13:46:47< timotei> fendrin: after I finish the things I have ok?
20100805 13:51:05< fendrin> timotei: okay
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20100805 14:00:37< fendrin> timotei: Coding in the editor crashes at the closing of tags.
20100805 14:01:00< timotei> fendrin: what errors do you get?
20100805 14:01:46< fendrin> timotei: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/gRsx5KDy
20100805 14:01:58< timotei> ol
20100805 14:02:01< timotei> lollllllllllll!
20100805 14:02:08< timotei> at last
20100805 14:02:14< timotei> this is what I wanted to see:P
20100805 14:02:17< timotei> you're using openJDK
20100805 14:02:24< timotei> you need to use Sun's one :D
20100805 14:02:37< timotei> A fatal error has been detected by the Java Runtime Environment:
20100805 14:02:52< timotei> I think that's why you got all those errors when trying things
20100805 14:03:08< timotei> the first time I install java/jdk on a linux I make sure it's sun one
20100805 14:03:27< timotei> fendrin: http://www.clickonf5.org/linux/how-install-sun-java-ubuntu-1004-lts/7777
20100805 14:04:29< timotei> fendrin: and then sudo apt-get install sun-java6-jdk
20100805 14:04:45< timotei> openJDK is crap. I don't know why they are still using it
20100805 14:05:46< fendrin> timotei: Okay, doing the install.
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20100805 14:12:11< shadowmaster> silene: right, I suspected that. On the other hand, many websites and even the usbmount config file's comments suggest that sync can cause faster wear on flash memory devices
20100805 14:12:19< shadowmaster> and they are fairly widespread.
20100805 14:13:58-!- shadowm_battery [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 14:14:54< timotei> haha, nice nick shadowm_battery :P
20100805 14:15:08< timotei> now the whole laptop transformed into a battery?
20100805 14:15:34-!- Sapient [~sapient@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 14:15:51< Sapient> zookeeper: I did reply, but just on the pastebin site
20100805 14:16:15< Sapient> you need to fire event with {ID} in the name 
20100805 14:16:49< zookeeper> Sapient, right, luckily i fixed that already
20100805 14:17:46< Sapient> anyway, since it relies on filter_vision, it will be subject to errors via delay shroud updates
20100805 14:17:53< zookeeper> how so?
20100805 14:18:21< Sapient> the replay has no knowledge of when you delay/update shroud
20100805 14:18:31< zookeeper> oh, right, replays.
20100805 14:18:42< zookeeper> (and MP, but it's just for SP anyway)
20100805 14:18:48< Sapient> replays are also the mechanism by which MP is synched, yes
20100805 14:19:15< zookeeper> hrhm
20100805 14:19:29< Sapient> that was why I suggested to use a Lua approach which determines vision by movement
20100805 14:20:02< Sapient> then invalidate the undo and clear the shroud if it triggers
20100805 14:20:06< zookeeper> so basically filter_vision shouldn't be used for anything, since it breaks even SP replays?
20100805 14:20:23< zookeeper> (that is, unless you don't mind the replays breaking)
20100805 14:20:39< Sapient> I guess filter_vision is fine on levels without shroud
20100805 14:21:11< Sapient> no, what am I thinking
20100805 14:21:18< zookeeper> no idea :p
20100805 14:21:18< Sapient> gah, too early
20100805 14:21:39< zookeeper> can't the toggling of DSU be recorded in replays?
20100805 14:21:55< zookeeper> or in other words, would that work as a fix?
20100805 14:22:03< Sapient> that would be one approach to fixing it
20100805 14:22:18< Sapient> anyways, I gotta go for now
20100805 14:22:25-!- Sapient [~sapient@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]]
20100805 14:22:47< zookeeper> ok, i'll file a bug report for that...
20100805 14:23:57< shadowmaster> timotei: no, but it's running on batteries atm
20100805 14:24:25< shadowmaster> and since I'm not sure anymore about the data it reports to the computer regarding charge and capacity, it could easily go down at any moment
20100805 14:24:42< timotei> aha
20100805 14:24:43< shadowmaster> I'm running the risk...for SCIENCE!
20100805 14:24:45< timotei> did you backup it?:D
20100805 14:24:50< timotei> for what science?
20100805 14:29:59< fendrin> timotei: How does the builder get that opening tag line must match the closing tag line?
20100805 14:30:44< timotei> fendrin: that's not the builder. it's the xtext validator
20100805 14:31:06< fendrin> timotei: So it is not defined in WML.xtext?
20100805 14:31:14< timotei> fendrin: in the: org.wesnoth.wml/src/org.wesnoth.wml.validation/WMLJavaValidator.java
20100805 14:31:21< timotei> fendrin: no. xtext file contains just the grammar
20100805 14:31:36< timotei> fendrin: in the file, the 'checkTagName' function
20100805 14:32:03< timotei> the second if. in the first IF I check if the tag name is defined :)
20100805 14:32:12< timotei> and issuing a warning if none is found
20100805 14:32:37< timotei> lol
20100805 14:32:51< timotei> emacs mode contains harcoded macros?:))
20100805 14:34:07< timotei> but I have to admit a ++ because is written in LIPS :)
20100805 14:34:30< timotei> do we use in wesnoth other languages than: C++, java, html, php, python and LISP?
20100805 14:34:36< timotei> oh, not to forget WML :P
20100805 14:34:46< fendrin> timotei: No, the emacs mode scans all wml files and records what is found.
20100805 14:35:03< timotei> fendrin: well, yeah, and writes them (hardcodes) in that file
20100805 14:35:05< Crab_> zookeeper: note that we want to kill DSU when gabba's whiteboard will be ready
20100805 14:35:06< boucman> there might be some perl here and there, but i'm not sure ther's much left..
20100805 14:35:13< fendrin> timotei: yes
20100805 14:35:38< zookeeper> Crab_, yeah
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20100805 14:35:48< timotei> what's DSU?
20100805 14:35:57< zookeeper> but there's still no saying how that'll go or when it'll be ready or...i don't know
20100805 14:36:09< Crab_> timotei: it's an evil and buggy feature :)
20100805 14:36:19< timotei> Crab_: oh
20100805 14:36:22< Crab_> timotei: or, being serious, 'delayed shroud updates'
20100805 14:36:26< boucman> delay shroud update
20100805 14:36:30< timotei> oh, right
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20100805 14:37:05< Crab_> shikadibot: DSU ?
20100805 14:37:06< shikadibot> Sorry, I don't know what 'DSU' means...
20100805 14:37:39< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45231 /trunk/data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Added support for a [note] key in [objectives] to make it easier to supply several notes.
20100805 14:37:41< zookeeper> silene, ^ i haven't found any bugs in that and it's pretty simple anyway, but i'd prefer if you proofread all my lua code for now just in case ;)
20100805 14:38:20< Crab_> wesbot: whatis dsu
20100805 14:38:21< wesbot> Crab_: Sorry, I don't know about dsu...
20100805 14:38:54< Crab_> timotei: as you see, the feature is so evil that even those channel bots refuse to talk about it :)
20100805 14:39:05< timotei> Crab_: yeah :D
20100805 14:39:08-!- shadowm_battery [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Quit: 9%]
20100805 14:40:07< Crab_> timotei: you can also take a look at https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16361  https://gna.org/bugs/?13256 https://gna.org/bugs/?14269
20100805 14:40:24-!- j-b [~jb@videolan/developer/j-b] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 14:40:58< timotei> but what does DSU do?
20100805 14:41:12< Crab_> timotei: there's a thing called 'undo stack'
20100805 14:41:26< Crab_> when you do a move which is undoable, it goes into the undo stack
20100805 14:41:34< Crab_> so you can undo it, if you want to.
20100805 14:41:45< Crab_> the catch is, you cannot undo if you get new information from the move.
20100805 14:42:01< Crab_> so, if you spot an enemy or reveal shroud/fog, you lose undo capability
20100805 14:42:20< Crab_> but, sometimes, players want to see how will ZoC/situation look like if units do some moves
20100805 14:42:49< Crab_> that's why there's an option called 'delay shroud updates' which says 'if possible, do not reveal shroud/fog when we move units'
20100805 14:42:56< timotei> oh
20100805 14:43:03< timotei> that surely is evil:)
20100805 14:43:08< Crab_> so, you can make a move which will go into the undo stack
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20100805 14:43:50< Crab_> yes, it allows to violate causuality in a number of ways, breaking some wml thingies and leading to segfaults/glitches/broken replays
20100805 14:44:15-!- Gambit [~Gambit@unaffiliated/gambit] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100805 14:44:19< Crab_> but it works more-or-less ok for 'standard' MP games where there is no WML moveto/sighted events involved.
20100805 14:44:20< j-b> Is there anyone that is able/want to discuss about GPL and AppleStore? We are in the exact same position for VLC (www.videolan.org/vlc) and would love some inputs/ideas...
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20100805 14:47:05< Crab_> j-b: take a look at the list of people who attended our first irc meeting about that subject - https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2010-08/msg00001.html
20100805 14:47:25< Crab_> j-b: I'd suggest contacting Sirp during day-in-US (or via PM on wesnoth's forums)
20100805 14:47:35< freim> j-b: it's being discussed, opinions differ. No consensus or action plan has been decided yet
20100805 14:47:40< j-b> yes, I read about it
20100805 14:47:49< j-b> Crab_: I read before coming, :D
20100805 14:47:53< Crab_> :)
20100805 14:47:58< j-b> Is wesnoth GPLv2 or v3 ?
20100805 14:48:10< Rhonda> 2+
20100805 14:48:37< j-b> Because, unfortunately, reading both the GPLv2 and Apple Store terms, we didn't got the same conclusion than the FSF
20100805 14:49:17< j-b> which is why I came around here
20100805 14:49:28< Rhonda> To what conclusion do you come?
20100805 14:50:19< j-b> That it wasn't as blocking to the GPL as FSF claimed
20100805 14:50:52< freim> my personal opinion is to agree with what is said here: https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2010-07/msg00045.html
20100805 14:51:03< freim> meaning I think there are violations
20100805 14:51:16< Rhonda> j-b: Well, it puts restrictions on the binary distribution that are incompatible with the GPL.
20100805 14:51:42-!- Blarumyrran [~Blarumyrr@wesnoth/artist/blarumyrran] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 14:51:46< j-b> http://vlc.pastebin.com/bEfScweW
20100805 14:53:00< elias> the things Gabriel quote's sound like they are not just incompatible with GPL, but with law :P
20100805 14:53:45< elias> (how they say i can't distribute my app anywhere but the app store)
20100805 14:53:51< Rhonda> j-b: Yes, the compiler clause might be a troublesome too.
20100805 14:55:44< Rhonda> j-b: But Section 3 is an issue: They obviously don't fulfill subsection a), they don't fulfill subsection b) (that would require _apple_ to provide the source), and given that they are commercially redistributiong the binaries, subsection c) is out of reach for them.
20100805 14:56:32< j-b> Rhonda: if we provide source+binaries on the website, would it still apply?
20100805 14:59:32< Rhonda> Yes, because it's still apple not willing/able to fulfill section 3 of the GPL.
20100805 14:59:50< Rhonda> The only option I see is dual-licensing it for the app-store.
20100805 14:59:56< j-b> and if we distribute the source inside the binary?
20100805 15:00:01< elias> it's a bit of a technicality whether a website link can fulfill the wording of "accompany"
20100805 15:00:08< Rhonda> … which might not be an option because of libraries linked.
20100805 15:00:33< j-b> elias: in France (were we are), it is defined as accompany
20100805 15:00:33< Rhonda> elias: If the distribution happens on said website, it fulfills the wording of accompany.
20100805 15:00:56< Rhonda> j-b: Yes, for distributing the binaries on the website. *not* for distributing the binaries in the appstore, though.
20100805 15:01:35< j-b> Rhonda: what if you can download the source from the app, like other GPL software do on the appstore?
20100805 15:01:48-!- AnMaster [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net]
20100805 15:02:34< Rhonda> "If distribution of executable or object code is made by offering access to copy from a designated place, then offering equivalent access to copy the source code from the same place counts as distribution of the source code, even though third parties are not compelled to copy the source along with the object code."
20100805 15:03:22< Rhonda> How would you download the source from app?
20100805 15:03:50< freim> if free software have to bend over backwards and still be in a dubious situation with regards to the legality of having GPL apps on the appstore, couldn't that be an indication on that the freedom FLOSS tries to achieve is on a complete collision course with the walled-in non-free properties of the appstore? 
20100805 15:04:23< freim> why should/would free software endorse such distribution channels?
20100805 15:04:36-!- Octalot [~noct@cpc1-hitc1-0-0-cust572.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 15:04:53< zookeeper> uh...so that people can play wesnoth on their iphones.
20100805 15:05:15< Rhonda> j-b: Actually I have to agree with freim here. If one has to tweak and play with words to be able to get at least remotely a not too bad conscience about putting things in there, then it rather is an indicator to not do it in the first place.
20100805 15:05:19< j-b> Rhonda: just a link to the tar.bz2 in the AboutBox.
20100805 15:05:51< j-b> Rhonda: well, I don't want to argue, I just want to know.
20100805 15:05:52< Rhonda> zookeeper: That might all be good and valid reason to do so, but it still is at least against the spirit of what the chosen license is about.
20100805 15:06:01< freim> zookeeper: some of us care about the ethics and principals behind free software, not just convenience
20100805 15:06:43< Rhonda> This is actually one of the reasons why I use the WTFPLv2 instead of the GPL/FSF chain for my code.
20100805 15:06:58< j-b> ah! sam's license
20100805 15:07:04 * Rhonda nods. :)
20100805 15:07:25< zookeeper> Rhonda, the spirit? AFAICT wesnoth on the appstore fulfills the _spirit_ just fine as soon as the source and instructions on how to compile on a jailbroken device is are conveniently available online. that's what the license is trying to guarantee, the rest seems like unfortunate technicalities.
20100805 15:08:05< j-b> Well, some of us (I don't care, I don't have an iOS) say that anyone can recompile and redistribute a GPLv2 through the appstore program since we distribute the source... But the compiler part is more problematic
20100805 15:08:51< CIA-87> upthorn * r45232 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Prevented get_global_variable from occurring before replay synchronization is reliable. Prevented set_global_variable and clear_global_variable from storing any changes while watching saved replays.
20100805 15:09:17< Rhonda> zookeeper: unfortunate technicalities that are part of the license chosen. If you don't like the license (mind you, I don't neither) then it should be chosen, not broken.
20100805 15:09:43< CIA-87> upthorn * r45233 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: No longer uses get_global_variable prior to side 1 turn 1.
20100805 15:09:47< Rhonda> s/should/shouldn't/ obviously
20100805 15:09:52< zookeeper> Rhonda, umm, yeah. and we were both talking about the _spirit_ of the license.
20100805 15:10:13< Rhonda> The _spirit_ of the license unfortunately is defined by RMS who wrote it. :)
20100805 15:10:31< Rhonda> Not by our interpretation.
20100805 15:10:58< zookeeper> freim, ironically my point was giving the iphone users the freedom to play wesnoth on their devices, not "convenience".
20100805 15:11:54< freim> zookeeper: convenience was about ignoring license violations
20100805 15:12:19< Rhonda> j-b: And anyone that recompiles and redistributes a GPLv2 through the appstore is in legal dark area and has to face the fear of being critisized about it, to say the least.
20100805 15:12:44< zookeeper> freim, ok, i guess i just don't see what you were trying to say then
20100805 15:13:14< Rhonda> It's just the same than stating that anyone can recompile and redistribute GPLed code linked against the openssl library.
20100805 15:13:28< j-b> Rhonda: indeed. I just feared what will happen next...
20100805 15:13:33-!- Greywhind [~Greywhind@fw-34-16.cs.brown.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 15:13:50< Rhonda> That doesn't make it any more correct just because anyone can do it. And "anyone can do it so it's best we violate ourself first" is a very cheap reasoning.
20100805 15:14:19-!- Elvish_Pillage2 [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 15:15:26< elias> zookeeper: the GPL wants to protect the freedom of free software in general (e.g. it outright forbids using GPL code in non-free apps, even if that often would be very convenient)
20100805 15:15:30< freim> zookeeper: that's what makes me very worried
20100805 15:15:46< elias> so forbidding something very well can mean more freedom
20100805 15:17:18< zookeeper> elias, yeah, "the freedom of free software in general"
20100805 15:18:35< Rhonda> zookeeper: Unfortunately the appstore platform doesn't grant those freedoms but cuts them explicitly. That's the point.
20100805 15:19:04< Rhonda> So from that perspective allowing the appstore to distribute our binaries it's a convenience approach, not a freedom one.
20100805 15:20:43< Rhonda> And yes, I know that you want to give our users the "freedom of platform", but that isn't one of the basic *required* freedoms the GPL insists on.
20100805 15:21:03< zookeeper> yep
20100805 15:22:53< freim> I'm also rather uncomfortable with wesnoth making monetary gains from something that is this contentious
20100805 15:22:55< zookeeper> to me "freedom of platform" is definitely more important than a vague "freedom of free software in general", especially in cases where the latter isn't threatened in a practical sense, but just in a technical one.
20100805 15:23:26< elias> freim: the GPL has no problem with that though at least
20100805 15:23:36< elias> so guess it's a separate, even if related, discussion
20100805 15:23:38< freim> elias: no, but I have
20100805 15:23:49< freim> zookeeper: I strongly disagree, it far from just "technical". I also disagree with what is more important
20100805 15:24:00< zookeeper> freim, i'm not surprised ;)
20100805 15:25:47< freim> zookeeper: but you apparently find my pow of no interest or value
20100805 15:26:09< Rhonda> zookeeper: To me something else is also more important, but our personal preferences don't have influence on the text that's written in the GPL, unfortunately. :/
20100805 15:26:30< freim> same goes for the disingenuous way this whole situation has happended as no one was asked if they had any trouble with this before the port was initiated
20100805 15:26:44< j-b> well, as far as VLC is concerned, we would make it $0 on the AppStore and offer the exact same sources and binaries on our website
20100805 15:26:53< freim> when quite clearly several devs have
20100805 15:27:32< Rhonda> freim: I have no problem with the "making monetary gains" at all, and the GPL has neither.
20100805 15:27:48< freim> Rhonda: it is my personal opinion
20100805 15:28:01< Rhonda> Right, but it is, likewise with zookeeper's and mine, not of importance.
20100805 15:28:06< zookeeper> freim, what value can anyone's pow have in the first place? i'm not particularly interested in any pow's i've heard before either.
20100805 15:28:23< elias> freim: the thing is, even if sirp wouldn't have agreed, kyle could just have released it anyway and keep all the money (without violating the GPL *by doing that*)
20100805 15:28:47< Rhonda> freim: Everyone is allowed to sell wesnoth binaries for as much as they like. They are free to do so, and I'm happy to see that someone is able to make money out of it.
20100805 15:29:02< Rhonda> freim: But like it or not, that's nothing the GPL forbids.
20100805 15:29:08< freim> zookeeper: it is in the interest of keeping the developer community happy. Making people feel you have fucked them over is not the way to go
20100805 15:29:33< freim> Rhonda: I have never said the GPL forbids it
20100805 15:30:00< Rhonda> Then this issue is closed and not something to discuss further.
20100805 15:30:57< elias> freim: anyone with a dev license could re-compile the appstore app and release it for $0 :)
20100805 15:30:59< zookeeper> freim, sure, but i hope you don't think i'm calling any shots here. i'm just giving my personal opinion of what i want just like you are.
20100805 15:31:18< elias> (violating the terms just as much as kyle then of course :P)
20100805 15:34:08< zookeeper> freim, so yes, sure everyone who actually makes a decision should be interested in your as well as my pow, but we don't since we can't fuck each other over on this issue anyway
20100805 15:34:18< freim> elias: that wasn't really my point at all, but lets just forget it
20100805 15:37:51< Rhonda> zookeeper: Actually, no, they shouldn't be interested in your two's opinion because they part of what's written in the GPL. Mine neither, mind you. :)
20100805 15:38:11< Rhonda> bleah
20100805 15:38:20< Rhonda> s/part/aren't &/
20100805 15:38:31< zookeeper> Rhonda, technically true, but that could still make them arses :p
20100805 15:38:33 * Rhonda curses her writing today.
20100805 15:40:37< Rhonda> They should only be interested in our blabbering if a licensing change is possible at all (given the used libraries and stuff)
20100805 15:41:04< freim> Rhonda: I care strongly about free software principals. In that regard other devs opinions matter to me, because if I observe that the majority don't care or are oblivious to them it tells me that I'm no longer interested in contributing to that project
20100805 15:41:15< Rhonda> For *that* consideration our discussion makes sense. Appart from that, our opinion on the GPL isn't relevant.
20100805 15:41:58< j-b> it fact it is.
20100805 15:42:02< j-b> the GPL isn't always clear
20100805 15:43:27< Rhonda> freim: And "free software principals" include that commercial or non-commercial redistribution doesn't matter and aren't meant to be regulated at all neither. It's also one of the founding freedoms.
20100805 15:45:44< freim> Rhonda: please, just stop. You didn't understand my point
20100805 15:46:07< freim> Rhonda: I have no problem with selling GPL software as long as there is no license violations
20100805 15:47:30< freim> my only point was that I am uncomfortably with wesnoth as a project getting money from something several of it's devs believe is a violation of the license
20100805 15:47:36< Rhonda> Then I'm sorry that I misunderstood you on that part.
20100805 15:47:58< Rhonda> You brought up the selling part about monatery gain so I thought that was itching you.
20100805 15:48:13< freim> it's itching me only for the reason I just stated
20100805 15:48:43< Rhonda> So if it would be violated for free (as in beer) there it would be fine for you?
20100805 15:48:51< freim> no
20100805 15:49:14< Rhonda> Then I wonder why you mentioned the monatary gain at all because that was just distracting in that statement.
20100805 15:49:21< freim> damn, I wish I never mentioned that
20100805 15:49:27< Rhonda> :)
20100805 15:49:35< Rhonda> Alright, I'll remove it from my brain filter.
20100805 15:50:56< Rhonda> So we are on the same boat but for different reasons.
20100805 15:51:00< freim> I believe our reasons overlap pretty well
20100805 15:51:00< Rhonda> You seem to feel more attached to the GPL, which I could care less about. I just don't like it be ignored no matter how little or not I like it.
20100805 15:51:00< freim> that's a tleast my impression
20100805 15:51:21< freim> I think the GPL is the best suited license to protect the four freedoms
20100805 15:51:28< freim> which are what I care about
20100805 15:51:51< freim> the license is just a license
20100805 15:52:17< Rhonda> Unfortunately I disagree on that grounds. It gives the FSF much more power and depends on their goodwill of not changing any "or later" version to something that we won't feel very bad about it.
20100805 15:52:32< Rhonda> And actually there did flow some parts into GPLv3 where people started to feel the pain already.
20100805 15:52:48< freim> personally I wouldn't have used the "or later"
20100805 15:52:56-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-176-19.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 15:53:01< freim> as you then can't really know what you have agreed to in the future
20100805 15:53:05< freim> that seems strange to me
20100805 15:53:34< Rhonda> Right. But you need the permissions from all involved parties to move to v3 later in any case.
20100805 15:53:52< freim> yeah
20100805 15:55:25< Rhonda> Actually I would even ask contributors to allow future license changes to any other free license that might fulfill the interest better. But that's just as fishy as v2 or later.
20100805 16:01:23-!- anonymissimus [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-095-208-088-086.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 16:07:21< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45234 /trunk/data/ (19 files in 5 dirs): Converted {AI_CONTROLLER_NOTE} to use the new [note] tag instead of the note= key.
20100805 16:16:19< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45235 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Converted the great horde notes to a single macro using the new [note] tag.
20100805 16:20:19< timotei> hmm, how does sdl actually count SDL_Ticks?
20100805 16:20:19< timotei> :|
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20100805 16:27:10< elias> timotei: gettimeofday or clock_gettime, I'd assume (in linux)
20100805 16:40:23< zookeeper> Crab_, the inspect dialog uses "team X" instead of "side X" in the types list
20100805 16:41:03< Crab_> zookeeper: noted.
20100805 16:41:48< zookeeper> (that seems to be an unfortunately common mistake, i'm guessing the c++ code uses "team" in a lot of places where "side" is meant)
20100805 16:42:21< Crab_> yes, they're quite easy to separate - side is 1-based, team is 0-based...
20100805 16:42:26< Crab_> in c++, that is
20100805 16:46:58< zookeeper> fendrin, Crab_, anyone else who might take as much as a peek at the new AI controller: i know it's pretty broken atm in a few places, but i'm going to fix those tonight.
20100805 16:47:17< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, I've looked at the patch a little...
20100805 16:49:02< zookeeper> there's also a few places that i can simplify with lua, but i'll leave that to the polishing stage
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20100805 16:53:31< Elvish_Pillage2> here's a question for anyone who knows the animation code: Is the presence of more *frames* in a unit's animations ever supposed to make it take longer to *choose* an animation?
20100805 16:53:49< anonymissimus> zookeeper: comments on your sighted code; it doesn't work for sighting specific units (SUF), unfortunately
20100805 16:55:35< anonymissimus> if the whiteboard fails, I'll offer to write a mainline version of my sighted event with lua instead of filter_vision and a SUF
20100805 16:55:42< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: it shouldn't
20100805 16:57:21< anonymissimus> my trick was to ignore the delay_shroud setting in case that a unit would have been sighted without it though, what can't be made with filter_vision
20100805 16:57:24< Elvish_Pillage2> silene: it seems to be, although there's another fairly likely explanation...
20100805 16:57:44< Elvish_Pillage2> does the animation code do a significant amount of processing when it _starts_ an animation (but before it displays anything)?
20100805 16:59:06< Elvish_Pillage2> I'm working with a situation where I have a lot of animations AND a lot of frames in each animation, and increasing the number of frames a lot more makes it lag hugely when starting animations, e.g. at every swing in combat (but the animations themselves are no more laggy than usual.)
20100805 17:01:17< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: can you quantify "hugely"? (just to know if it is worth trying to profile the code to get a sensible culprit)
20100805 17:01:29< Elvish_Pillage2> lemme check
20100805 17:02:11< silene> if you can degrade it to the the magnitude of seconds, it wil work
20100805 17:02:45< Elvish_Pillage2> I have a situation where it stalls about 5 seconds when beginning combat, and 1-2 seconds before each swing
20100805 17:04:54< silene> that should be enough to locate the issue, please post it
20100805 17:05:03< Elvish_Pillage2> post it where?
20100805 17:05:13< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: in a bug report for instance
20100805 17:05:20< Elvish_Pillage2> okay
20100805 17:06:13-!- Crab_ [~Crab@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
20100805 17:11:37< Elvish_Pillage2> silene: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16363
20100805 17:13:09< zookeeper> anonymissimus, yeah, it only works for whole sides, but that's usually good enough anyway. i think i could easily add a full SUF for the sighted unit though. anyway, sapient explained to me that [filter_vision] basically breaks replays, so unless someone wants to fix that soon, i can try to make a more lua-heavy version too.
20100805 17:14:01< anonymissimus> no easily adding a SUF isn't possible, since you can filter_vision only for sides IIRC
20100805 17:14:38< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: thanks, i can reproduce it; though for me it lags at random times, not necessarily at animation start
20100805 17:15:02< silene> i will try to get a profile of it
20100805 17:16:34< timotei> Elvish_Pillage2: wow, that lags a LOT for me. I can't even see the full animatios
20100805 17:17:43< Elvish_Pillage2> timotei: as far as I can tell, *any* lag in the time surrounding a combat (even if it's WML-executing delays instead of animation processing delays) will make the combat animations not display fully
20100805 17:18:01< timotei> yeah
20100805 17:18:04< Elvish_Pillage2> so that's probably a separate issue
20100805 17:18:57< Elvish_Pillage2> ...albeit an equally annoying one.
20100805 17:20:42< boucman> hey all
20100805 17:20:47< boucman> apparently I arrive just in time :)
20100805 17:21:20< boucman> Elvish_Pillage2: afair (don't have the source here) no, the number of frame shouldn't affect the animation choice
20100805 17:21:48< boucman> however all sort of stuff happen at the start of animations so if you start a lot of these simultaneously, it might get laggy
20100805 17:22:01< boucman> and I would be very interested in a profile oo
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20100805 17:22:39< Elvish_Pillage2> I could easily make a much-worse situation if that would help?
20100805 17:22:40< zookeeper> anonymissimus, the sighted unit's side isn't used in any [filter_vision]
20100805 17:22:41< silene> boucman: about 50% of the time is spent in manipulating config objects
20100805 17:23:06< timotei> silene: what you use for profiling?
20100805 17:23:14< silene> timotei: oprofile
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20100805 17:24:24< boucman> silene: hmm, yes I think animation choice is hevily config based (unlike the animation itself where everything is converted to C++ classes at load time)
20100805 17:24:25< silene> boucman: unfortunately, i can't pinpoint the exact culprit; there must be lots of them (otherwise they would appear in the profile)
20100805 17:25:08< silene> boucman: note that the issue is config building (not just accessing)
20100805 17:25:22< boucman> silene: I don't have the code here, but I would expect the function in charge of expanding [if] to be responsible for it
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20100805 17:25:53< boucman> it's at the begining of unit_animaiton.cpp but since I don't have the source I can't give you the exact name
20100805 17:26:34< boucman> or is that called at load time... I'm not sure
20100805 17:27:39< anonymissimus> zookeeper: btw don't you need the id in the name of the executing event too ? they have different action wmls
20100805 17:28:18-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 134 bugs, 285 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100805 17:28:52< boucman> silene: if you have a profile could you pastebin it so I can have a look (and maybe attach to the bug and assign the bug to me :P )
20100805 17:29:39< silene> boucman: yes, as soon as opreport stops, i will post it; it has been running for several minutes, it's a bit worrying
20100805 17:29:50< boucman> k
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20100805 17:37:46< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: are you creating lots of units in your code, e.g. with wesnoth.put_unit? (just trying to check if 40% spent in the unit constructor is making sense in the profile)
20100805 17:38:10< Elvish_Pillage2> silene: I use wesnoth.put_unit a lot, yes.
20100805 17:39:39< boucman> bbiam
20100805 17:42:34< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: and these units have a "new_animation" effect?
20100805 17:42:38< Elvish_Pillage2> yes
20100805 17:43:00< Elvish_Pillage2> right, the animations are all added by one new_animation effect
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20100805 17:45:26< silene> i guess i will recompile wesnoth, so that the call traces are not cut off at lua scripts
20100805 17:49:15< boucman> back...
20100805 17:50:53< silene> boucman: for now, it's not clear that the culprit is the animation code
20100805 17:51:08< silene> (though it has a nonnegligible impact)
20100805 17:54:19< boucman> yes, I started seeing from your comments... I'm still interested by the investigation, though :)
20100805 17:59:44< silene> now i have a really nice trace; unfortunately, i fear that gna won't cope with a 1.2Mo picture
20100805 18:00:35-!- elvish_sovereign [~elvish_so@pool-108-2-86-247.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100805 18:05:54< zookeeper> anonymissimus, yes, i've added it since
20100805 18:07:49< boucman> silene: pastebin, maybe ?
20100805 18:08:24< anonymissimus> silene: which methods are there to get a trait applied that was added with set_variable other than leveling the unit ? (are there any ?)
20100805 18:08:36< silene> boucman: i have reduced it to 976K, hopefully the escape characters won't take the remainding 48K
20100805 18:09:03-!- Octalot [~noct@cpc1-hitc1-0-0-cust572.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100805 18:09:24< silene> anonymissimus: no method in 1.8 that i know of; in 1.9, the wesnoth.add_modification method should do the job
20100805 18:15:43< silene> boucman: the trace has been added to the bug report
20100805 18:16:04< boucman> k, looking
20100805 18:20:37< boucman> what's lua_Pcall ?
20100805 18:22:17< silene> boucman: execution of lua scripts, that is, wml in general
20100805 18:22:28< boucman> k
20100805 18:23:04< silene> i guess there must be a "hit" event, and the graph shows the cost of its wml
20100805 18:24:25< boucman> hmm, unit_animation::prepare_animation is where I would look first... it's an ugly area, due to an ugly WML syntax, due to backward compatibility
20100805 18:24:39< boucman> the [if] syntax in animation :(
20100805 18:26:22< boucman> if someone could give a fresh eye on that functionality it would be welcome... though I'm afraid a huge change in how we do conditional animations is needed...
20100805 18:27:02< silene> boucman: i looked at Elvish_Pillage2's code, there shouldn't be more than ten units created in the 15s seconds of the trace; so each unit creation is taking 1 or 2 seconds
20100805 18:27:57< boucman> that's weird... I can't see how unit anim could take that much time...
20100805 18:28:08< boucman> but the trace speeks for itself
20100805 18:28:53< Elvish_Pillage2> does that mean there's complicated animation processing during unit creation...?
20100805 18:29:20< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: seems like it, the issue seems to be the "new_animation" modifier
20100805 18:29:27< boucman> yes, we expend conditional animations
20100805 18:29:45< Elvish_Pillage2> is it possible to add animations to a unit in any way other than using new_animation? they show up in the "inspect" screen, but adding them directly to the unit didn't seem to work when I tried it
20100805 18:30:14< boucman> you could add them to the unit_type I guess...
20100805 18:30:20< boucman> assuming it's not a mainline type
20100805 18:30:29< Elvish_Pillage2> All mainline types.
20100805 18:30:47< boucman> :(
20100805 18:31:01< Elvish_Pillage2> can't make new unit types because I want to not require download for my era, and even if I did, I'd have to pretty much add ALL the animations to every unit type
20100805 18:31:03< boucman> no, that was the point of new_animation...
20100805 18:32:02< Elvish_Pillage2> boucman: so you regenerate the unit animations every time it's created/unstored?
20100805 18:32:07< boucman> I guess  you could create new unit types using only mainline images, but that's clearly a bug, and waiting for us to fix it makes sense...
20100805 18:33:09< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: when it isn't an animation coming from the unit type, it seems like it
20100805 18:33:35< boucman> yes, since each unit can have it individually added or removed...
20100805 18:34:12< Elvish_Pillage2> well that's an ugly dilemma for me, then, unless you fix the bug, because that'll lag up _everything_ I do with the units in question...
20100805 18:34:38< boucman> can't you disable the animation for now ? 
20100805 18:34:43< Elvish_Pillage2> I guess so
20100805 18:34:53< boucman> are you working in 1.8 or trunk ?
20100805 18:34:56< Elvish_Pillage2> 1.8
20100805 18:35:10< boucman> ouch
20100805 18:35:16< Elvish_Pillage2> well, I can't disable the animations actually, because they're necessary to indicate things about the gamestate
20100805 18:35:39< boucman> this area is fragile, and I obviously can't change the WML syntax in 1.8 so fix there is unlikely, sorry
20100805 18:35:44< Elvish_Pillage2> I *could* speed it up by getting rid of some of the extra ones that just make it look less glitchy
20100805 18:35:46< boucman> hmm
20100805 18:36:05< Elvish_Pillage2> (right now I have, e.g. generated extra "selected" anims so that the extra stuff doesn't disappear when the unit is selected, etc)
20100805 18:36:50-!- billynux [~billy@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 18:36:55< billynux> hi all
20100805 18:37:07 * billynux is truly happy ATM
20100805 18:37:17< boucman> Elvish_Pillage2: I'm not sure it's documented properly, but I think you can use the "default" flag for an animation and it will be used as a base for all default anims, (healed, select, level etc...)
20100805 18:37:24< boucman> hey billynux 
20100805 18:37:30< billynux> hi boucman 
20100805 18:37:53< Elvish_Pillage2> boucman: the wiki says that [standing_anim] has that by default, and it doesn't work...
20100805 18:37:56< boucman> silene, Elvish_Pillage2 : I assigned the bug to myself, btw
20100805 18:38:07< boucman> hmm, it should :P
20100805 18:38:10< Elvish_Pillage2> that is, adding [standing_anim] via apply_to=new_animation effect doesn't...
20100805 18:38:22< Elvish_Pillage2> is it possible that those only copy the base frames?
20100805 18:38:32< Elvish_Pillage2> because I'm relying on a lot of xxx_frames
20100805 18:38:42< boucman> Elvish_Pillage2: maybe it doesn't work via apply_to...  I'll have to check
20100805 18:39:01< boucman> it does work for mainline, that's how flying units get most of their anims
20100805 18:39:15< Elvish_Pillage2> speaking of which it would be nice to be able to control the difference between frame and xxx_frame more precisely
20100805 18:39:26< boucman> Elvish_Pillage2: I don't think so, but as I said i can't check right now
20100805 18:39:47< Elvish_Pillage2> right now you only get one frame that changes color based on poison/petrification and isn't flipped vertically and stuff
20100805 18:39:51< boucman> Elvish_Pillage2: huh ? in theory you can control everything...
20100805 18:40:03< Elvish_Pillage2> in theory...
20100805 18:40:19< boucman> hmm, true... could you open a FR for that, and assign to me ? 
20100805 18:40:21< Elvish_Pillage2> you can only have one blend_ratio/blend_color, so you'd have to do complicated calculations to make poison work with that
20100805 18:40:34< boucman> saying you want a "treat_as_unit" attribute in frame 
20100805 18:40:39< Elvish_Pillage2> okay (um, can I assign FRs to people?)
20100805 18:40:59< boucman> Elvish_Pillage2: try it, if you can't just past the link here and i'll do it myself
20100805 18:42:24< timotei> hi billynux :D
20100805 18:42:31< timotei> billynux: something successful?:P
20100805 18:42:48< billynux> hi timotei
20100805 18:42:53< billynux> yes, I bought land!!! :D
20100805 18:42:59< billynux> 10x25mts!
20100805 18:43:01< timotei> billynux: umm, for building a house?:>
20100805 18:43:10< billynux> yeah!
20100805 18:43:14< timotei> mts??? meters?
20100805 18:43:27< billynux> indeed
20100805 18:43:30< timotei> meters squared
20100805 18:43:31< timotei> nice:P
20100805 18:43:39< timotei> that's... big!
20100805 18:43:50< timotei> well, happy building :D
20100805 18:44:35< timotei> oh great. it started raining again
20100805 18:44:39< billynux> thanks timotei, well... the American continent in general has a lower density of population.
20100805 18:44:40< timotei> and it rains too bad
20100805 18:44:45-!- alink [~alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100805 18:44:47< timotei> brb need to take clothes from outside
20100805 18:44:47< timotei> :D
20100805 18:47:10< timotei> loonycyborg: come here inRomania so you'll get colder a bit:D
20100805 18:47:17< timotei> loonycyborg: it's raining so cool
20100805 18:51:39< Soliton> random question: what would be a good char sequence for a binary network protocol to reliably find the start of a message?
20100805 18:52:15< elias> 255
20100805 18:52:31< Soliton> just one char isn't very good though is it?
20100805 18:52:48< elias> if you escape all others it should work fine :)
20100805 18:52:58< timotei> hmm you can try using those things used in xml for start
20100805 18:53:02< timotei> BOM or how they're called
20100805 18:53:04< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45236 /trunk/data/core/macros/ai_controller.cfg: Fixed a few bugs in the AI controller.
20100805 18:53:17< timotei> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_order_mark
20100805 18:53:28< elias> they can occure in normal binary data though
20100805 18:53:42< Elvish_Pillage2> boucman: Submitted FR. I can't find a way to assign it to you on the page. https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16365
20100805 18:54:10< timotei> there is the "assign to"
20100805 18:54:30< timotei> "assigned to"*
20100805 18:56:34< timotei> The planet earth documentary is so cool
20100805 18:58:56< silene> anonymissimus: i agree that having removal and overwriting would be great, but as you point it out, the syntax is a real issue
20100805 18:58:57< boucman> Elvish_Pillage2: thx
20100805 18:59:11< silene> anonymissimus: by the way, do you want write access?
20100805 18:59:21< boucman> Soliton: depends how much you are ready to complicate your protocol for that...
20100805 18:59:23< anonymissimus> :)
20100805 18:59:53< anonymissimus> hm well not having write access means I do not need to worry about making wring commits ;)
20100805 19:00:21< boucman> I know of protocol that insterted a 1 between every byte, and would send a sequence of 9 zeros to signal the start of messages :P
20100805 19:01:29< Soliton> yeah, not that complicated... :-)
20100805 19:02:01< Soliton> it's a high level protocol based on tcp/ip.
20100805 19:02:02< boucman> well, to synchronize at the wire level, it's a good way to do it...
20100805 19:02:51< elias> Soliton: so it's tcp, but you start at a random position within the stream?
20100805 19:03:13< Soliton> elias: if communication goes bad for whatever reason that can happen, yes.
20100805 19:03:29< elias> i don't really see how
20100805 19:03:58< elias> TCP mans you have to connect to the server (so the server decides on the very first byte to send to you) and once the connection is established, TCP guarantees that there's no bit errors
20100805 19:04:15< Soliton> well, if we stop to read in the middle of a message because of some error?
20100805 19:05:11< elias> could still read until the end of the message
20100805 19:05:44< boucman> Soliton: the server would know about it, and could restart from the next start of message on reconnection
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20100805 19:13:54< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45237 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/utils/httt_utils.cfg: Removed obsolete macro.
20100805 19:18:36< zookeeper> silene, anonymissimus, a random through regarding the [modify_unit] tag: couldn't you handle the setting of arbitrary tags and stuff by simply calling [set_variables] and using the contents of the [modify_unit] tag (except the [filter] tag)?
20100805 19:18:41< zookeeper> thought, even
20100805 19:19:04< zookeeper> unless i'm missing a detail which would make it not work, i'd imagine that'd result in far simpler code
20100805 19:21:11< zookeeper> and yes, the fact that you can't actually clear/remove stuff (especially whole tags) might be a problem
20100805 19:21:33< anonymissimus> hm i would need to create the wml table for passing to wesnoth.fire("set_variables", ...)
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20100805 19:22:13< anonymissimus> zookeeper: what syntax would you suggest for removing a tag ?
20100805 19:22:23< anonymissimus> or "imagine"
20100805 19:22:33< zookeeper> actually i investigated making MODIFY_UNIT use [set_variables] at least twice, but there was something which wouldn't have worked, so i dropped it...
20100805 19:22:38< zookeeper> frankly, i have no idea
20100805 19:23:07< silene> zookeeper: yes, set_variables in merge mode might work
20100805 19:23:14< anonymissimus> also does set_variables handle subtags ?
20100805 19:23:27< zookeeper> yes
20100805 19:23:33< anonymissimus> [value][subvalue] and so n
20100805 19:23:59< anonymissimus> afk
20100805 19:24:31< timotei> silene: why if I got an preprocessor error, the game doesn't return 1?:|
20100805 19:25:07< shadowmaster> because the game never returns non-zero
20100805 19:25:09< shadowmaster> wait
20100805 19:25:17< timotei> it returns :D
20100805 19:25:22< timotei> at least my --preprocess function
20100805 19:25:26< shadowmaster> oh, it returns 1 under some conditions
20100805 19:25:44< shadowmaster> it can also return ENOMEM
20100805 19:25:52< timotei> ENOMEM????
20100805 19:26:00< shadowmaster> no, ENOMEM
20100805 19:26:09< shadowmaster> not related to Enimem in any way.
20100805 19:26:12< silene> timotei: look at the last lines of game.cpp to fix it
20100805 19:26:13< timotei> oh
20100805 19:26:14< timotei> right
20100805 19:26:18< shadowmaster> Eminem.
20100805 19:26:18< timotei> ok
20100805 19:26:22< shadowmaster> however it's spelt
20100805 19:27:25< timotei> silene: error config:  is this a game::error
20100805 19:27:26< timotei> ?
20100805 19:27:38< timotei> or a config::error
20100805 19:27:39< timotei> ?
20100805 19:27:52< silene> i would say a config::error, but i'm not sure
20100805 19:28:00< timotei> ok, I'll check
20100805 19:28:16< shadowmaster> and there's always the signal component in the return values in some Unix-based operating systems
20100805 19:28:31< shadowmaster> so you can know whether the game returned after receiving a SIGBUS and such.
20100805 19:29:08< timotei> aha
20100805 19:29:14< shadowmaster> IIRC
20100805 19:29:33< shadowmaster> I recommend SIGSUBWAY though.
20100805 19:30:07< shadowmaster> yes, that was a lame pun. Shadowmaster off.
20100805 19:30:26< timotei> pun??
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20100805 19:31:14< silene> anonymissimus: if you try the [set_variables] way, i suggest considering __shallow_literal in place of __parsed, so as to avoid double variable substitution while you remove [filter]
20100805 19:32:04< timotei> it seems it's not a config::eror
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20100805 19:33:11< silene> timotei: either that, or it was already caught earlier
20100805 19:33:22< timotei> it cannot be caught earlier
20100805 19:33:34< timotei> since that error is in: int finished = process_command_args(argc, argv);
20100805 19:33:56< timotei> and that is guarded only by the main try{} from int main
20100805 19:34:18< timotei> I'm n00b. I should search for the error :D
20100805 19:34:59< timotei> it's a :preproc_config::error
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20100805 19:35:43< timotei> but it's not listed in the try{} catch from main
20100805 19:35:44< timotei> weird
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20100805 19:36:25< timotei> yeah
20100805 19:36:30< timotei> it's esentially a game:error
20100805 19:36:38< timotei> I forgot there was a dependecy tree 
20100805 19:37:21< zookeeper> fendrin, Crab_, i fixed the AI controller bugs i've found so far, it appears pretty solid to me now...i don't have much usage examples yet though
20100805 19:38:07< Crab_> well, it should be plug&play, so we can put it in some of the mainline campaigns where player has allies which die too fast )
20100805 19:40:39< zookeeper> Crab_, yeah, i've already wired it in most of the campaigns. i just haven't made any scenario-specific customizations yet (that is, the exact AI params to use for each order depends a bit on the scenario's needs)
20100805 19:41:34< Crab_> ideally, each scenario should provide a list of 'important areas' which the ai would be able to use...
20100805 19:41:51< zookeeper> i must admit that i'm not entirely sure anymore that the whole thing is such a good idea ;)
20100805 19:42:04< zookeeper> it's pretty KISS, but it also _should_ be unnecessary
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20100805 19:42:37< zookeeper> meaning that allied AI's should always act in such a way that they can't screw stuff up too bad
20100805 19:42:48< Crab_> zookeeper: well, one of the most useful features, for *some* scenarios, is "ask ai leader to relocate to another keep"
20100805 19:42:48< zookeeper> (and that's something the scenario needs to ensure)
20100805 19:43:30< Crab_> zookeeper: that way it provides *tactical value* for the player
20100805 19:43:46< Crab_> i.e. it allows to ask the ai to concentrate on doing something
20100805 19:44:02< Crab_> I agree about 'can't screw stuff up too bad' part
20100805 20:01:41< timotei> fendrin: hehe :D
20100805 20:01:53< timotei> fendrin: I tested LOW with the preprocess stuff I just did
20100805 20:01:59< timotei> and it recognized all scenarios IDS:P
20100805 20:02:10< timotei> and it worked... pretty fast:
20100805 20:03:00< timotei> Crab_: how are you doing?
20100805 20:03:21< Crab_> timotei: fine, mostly :)
20100805 20:05:37< timotei> Crab_: that's good
20100805 20:06:06< Crab_> timotei: I can help with something ?
20100805 20:06:32< timotei> Crab_: well, right now not. I got everything working until now what I wanted
20100805 20:06:38< Crab_> ok
20100805 20:06:49< timotei> Crab_: I read the logs 2 days ago about the preprocessor-include stuff
20100805 20:07:01< timotei> Crab_: I wonder if you saw how I decided to go in the end?
20100805 20:07:32< eleazar_> Ivanovic: what is the soonest release you are considering?
20100805 20:07:45< timotei> eleazar_: iirc end of gsoc
20100805 20:07:46< Ivanovic> 1.8.4 on sunday
20100805 20:07:51< timotei> ops
20100805 20:08:01< eleazar_> aug 20th?
20100805 20:08:06< timotei> didn't know about that :P
20100805 20:08:25< Ivanovic> 1.9.0 directly when the coding time is over (in fact about a day before)
20100805 20:08:42< timotei> Crab_: I and fendrin were wondering if we we should backport some of the new command lines used by the game
20100805 20:08:42< Ivanovic> ah, wait, no, this would be sunday, this is too soon for me
20100805 20:08:50< timotei> Crab_: like preprocessor stuff
20100805 20:08:59< Ivanovic> better some days afterwards, maybe thursday or the likes
20100805 20:09:17< eleazar_> Ivanovic: a week from today you mean?
20100805 20:09:17< timotei> Crab_: so people could use for example 1.8.4 too with the plugin
20100805 20:09:26< Ivanovic> eleazar_: yeah, something like this
20100805 20:10:01< Crab_> timotei: I'd say that it is better to keep it for 1.9 line, because it's still under development
20100805 20:11:07< eleazar_> the reason i bring it up... is i'm adding some terrain  and ATM it looks like the best way to go to make macros simple and understandable is to change the terrain code for "chasm"
20100805 20:11:42< eleazar_> i don't want to pull that if there's not enough time to convert the maps
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20100805 20:20:10< timotei> fendrin: around?
20100805 20:20:45< timotei> anyone who uses emacs wml mode ??
20100805 20:24:46< CIA-87> billynux * r45238 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Doxygen changes for ANA: Fix an image issue and only include in the doxygen documentation the code in ana/api. Documented the serializer module of ANA and inserted a method.
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20100805 20:45:11< zookeeper> eleazar_, if you can get esr or someone to make the relevant wmllint change and then run a mass-convert, then that shouldn't be a problem
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20100805 20:57:46< fendrin> timotei: hi
20100805 21:05:29< timotei> fendrin: in the emacs wml mode, how were the macros shown?
20100805 21:05:36< timotei> fendrin: the whole list?
20100805 21:05:41< timotei> fendrin: because I have a problem :))
20100805 21:05:55< timotei> fendrin: a.. 'big' problem
20100805 21:06:17< fendrin> timotei: shown? whole list? What do you mean?
20100805 21:06:31< timotei> fendrin: well, emacs mode, doesn't show you a list of maccros?
20100805 21:06:43< CIA-87> billynux * r45239 /trunk/src/ana/api/ (5 files): More improvements to ANA's documentation, the doxygen generated output looks fairly good.
20100805 21:08:00< fendrin> timotei: Well, it's working like everything works in emacs. If you try to tab complete a macro and there are several possible completions another buffer is opened with the alternatives.
20100805 21:08:17< timotei> I don't use emacs. I use vim :P
20100805 21:08:24< timotei> but maybe I should try it
20100805 21:08:32< timotei> fendrin: you know what problem I have?
20100805 21:08:36< fendrin> timotei: no
20100805 21:08:39< timotei> fendrin: the proposal list is to loong
20100805 21:08:39< timotei> :))
20100805 21:08:44< timotei> I have 1500+ macros available:|
20100805 21:08:52< timotei> I need to trim TERRAIN_GFX 
20100805 21:08:53< timotei> is ok?
20100805 21:09:08< timotei> that will trim down to ... 500
20100805 21:09:29< fendrin> timotei: Well, there are different solutions. 
20100805 21:09:31< timotei> {core/terrain-graphics/}
20100805 21:09:37< timotei> I was thinking of putting some preferences
20100805 21:09:39< timotei> of what to include
20100805 21:09:49< timotei> and what to not include when preprocessing
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20100805 21:10:25< fendrin> timotei: hmmm
20100805 21:10:50< fendrin> timotei: Can you just trim down the proposals on the fly?
20100805 21:11:00< timotei> how?
20100805 21:11:08< timotei> I mean, what to remove?
20100805 21:11:33< fendrin> timotei: Just only display the first 50 matches.
20100805 21:13:03< timotei> well, ok, I'll try investigate
20100805 21:13:55< fendrin> timotei: No one is searching a list of 500 macros to find the right one if he can just type more characters.
20100805 21:14:02< timotei> right
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20100805 21:14:22< fendrin> wesbot: seen kitty?
20100805 21:14:23< wesbot> fendrin: Sorry, I don't know of kitty.
20100805 21:14:27< timotei> well, for now (testing purpose) I'll use the define; NO_TERRAIN_GFX
20100805 21:14:29< fendrin> wesbot: seen kitty_?
20100805 21:14:29< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick kitty_ last spoke 3d 22h ago.  3d 21h ago they left with the message: Quit: bye
20100805 21:14:30< shadowmaster> you mean kitty_
20100805 21:20:19< anonymissimus> timotei: timotei>	anyone who uses emacs wml mode ?? yes, me
20100805 21:20:30< timotei> oh right anonymissimus 
20100805 21:20:47< timotei> well, fendrin helped me already. but thanks :P
20100805 21:21:05< anonymissimus> I see
20100805 21:21:09< timotei> anonymissimus: you're using on windows right?
20100805 21:21:17< anonymissimus> yes
20100805 21:21:24< anonymissimus> but did on Linux too
20100805 21:21:51< timotei> ok, nobody should know I'm testing emacs :-$
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20100805 21:24:18< anonymissimus> afk
20100805 21:32:57< anonymissimus> timotei: when compiling trunk the old way with the standalone project file, can I use the external package too ?
20100805 21:33:12< anonymissimus> or did you compile the stuff yourself ?
20100805 21:33:16< timotei> what?
20100805 21:33:29< timotei> what standalone project file?
20100805 21:33:34< timotei> what external packge?
20100805 21:34:01< anonymissimus> the projectfile from /projectfiles/VS etc
20100805 21:34:15< anonymissimus> thats the standalone projectfile ;)
20100805 21:34:32< anonymissimus> the other one os the one that can be created with cmake
20100805 21:34:53< timotei> oh
20100805 21:34:56< timotei> yes
20100805 21:35:01< timotei> you can use both 
20100805 21:35:08< anonymissimus> understood ?
20100805 21:35:13< timotei> yes :P
20100805 21:35:38< anonymissimus> well I don't want to compile boost and such :P
20100805 21:35:55< timotei> oh
20100805 21:35:58< timotei> of course
20100805 21:36:02< timotei> you can use them in the same time
20100805 21:39:01< timotei> anonymissimus: how did you install emacs on windows?:D
20100805 21:54:23< anonymissimus> iirc there is no installation
20100805 21:54:43< anonymissimus> its just a compressed package
20100805 21:56:30< anonymissimus> emacs-22.3-bin-i386.zip
20100805 21:57:38< anonymissimus> emacs-22.3\bin\emacs.exe is the binary then
20100805 21:57:43< timotei> yeah
20100805 21:57:51< anonymissimus> the ugly part is customizing it
20100805 21:58:15< anonymissimus> what you write in your .emacs
20100805 21:58:26< timotei> oh
20100805 21:58:35< timotei> well, I will do this tomorrow
20100805 21:58:38< timotei> now getting to bed
20100805 21:58:40< timotei> fendrin: I'm out
20100805 21:58:59< timotei> billynux, fendrin, anonymissimus good night
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20100805 21:59:08< anonymissimus> cy
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20100805 22:21:25< shadowmaster> cya on the evening
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20100805 22:34:11< CIA-87> jetryl * r45240 /trunk/data/core/images/units/saurians/skirmisher/ (106 files): Filled in the missing skirmisher animations.
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20100805 22:38:09< CIA-87> jetryl * r45241 /trunk/data/core/images/units/saurians/augur/ (augur-ne-defend1.png augur-ne-defend2.png): Added the missing augur animations.
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20100805 22:58:33< billynux> Ivanovic, around?
20100805 22:58:49< billynux> I would like to upload/host the doxygen generated documentation for ANA
20100805 23:02:24< Ivanovic> billynux: uhm, no idea how this is done
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20100805 23:02:34< Ivanovic> that is: in theory it should be autogenerated out of trunk every nightz
20100805 23:02:36< billynux> ok
20100805 23:03:07< billynux> hm.... but ANA has a mainpage (that isn't generated alongside wesnoth)
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20100805 23:03:30< billynux> I would like to upload this mainpage somewhere, but it can wait... a few days
20100805 23:03:30< CIA-87> jetryl * r45242 /trunk/data/core/images/units/saurians/flanker/ (34 files): Added the flanker's melee attack animations.
20100805 23:04:53< boucman> night all
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20100805 23:07:04< billynux> I'm off too
20100805 23:07:06< billynux> night
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20100805 23:23:03< zookeeper> fendrin, people seem to be complaining about LoW 14 difficulty a lot?
20100805 23:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 134 bugs, 286 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100805 23:41:16< fendrin> zookeeper: Right, the scenario is unbalanced. I must have had much luck when I considered it good.
20100805 23:42:08< fendrin> zookeeper: I will have time to take care about LoW more without UtBS on my schedule.
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20100805 23:51:45< Sapient> fendrin: why didn't you just post a poll to Dev Discussions about the controversial aspects of the UtBS changes?
20100805 23:52:06< Sapient> I mean, that is the whole purpose of the dev. discussions forum
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20100805 23:54:14< zookeeper> fendrin, yeah, i just noticed that there's been people complaining about that, so i figured i'd make extra sure you've seen it too ;)
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 06 00:00:25 2010