--- Log opened Sun Aug 08 00:00:00 2010
20100808 00:01:03< zookeeper> hi, Crab_
20100808 00:01:11< Crab_> hi, zookeeper
20100808 00:01:34< fendrin> hi Crab_, I would like to ask you some questions.
20100808 00:01:39< Crab_> ok
20100808 00:02:09< fendrin> You may have noticed that low scenario 14 is horribly unbalanced, it's much to hard.
20100808 00:03:11< fendrin> I want to solve that problem partly by making the ai that controls the side that is to be protected in order to fulfill the scenario objectives less stupid.
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20100808 00:03:38< Crab_> yes, I haven't touched the AI of that scenario at all
20100808 00:03:50< fendrin> The side in question as the human general Aldar, commanding lawful units.
20100808 00:03:54< Crab_> and there are some things that can be tried there
20100808 00:03:56< fendrin> s/as/is
20100808 00:04:02< Crab_> yes, I know this scenario
20100808 00:05:10< fendrin> Crab_: I have tried something like: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/aDtzBiRH
20100808 00:05:49< fendrin> But that did not much or even nothing. Did I miss the keywords or the right range?
20100808 00:06:28< fendrin> Crab_: What bothers me most is: Not even the avoid tag seemed to work. That was in 1.8. svn.
20100808 00:07:23< Crab_> avoid is not used correctly, the rest *should* work as 'the ai should only do a small number of attacks during the day, and will attack almost everything, even doing bad/stupid attacks, during day
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20100808 00:07:58< fendrin> Hmm, well that is not exactly what I had in mind :-)
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20100808 00:08:26< fendrin> It should retreat at night. Try to heal in the villages. And do clever attacks at daylight.
20100808 00:09:45< fendrin> Crab_: It would also be awesome if you find someday the time to implement the recall list per leader feature :-)
20100808 00:10:50< Crab_> yes
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20100808 00:14:07< Crab_> fendrin: I'll take a look at LoW 14
20100808 00:16:12< Crab_> fendrin: btw, what do you think about new LoW 1 ?
20100808 00:16:21< Crab_> fendrin: have you playtested it ?
20100808 00:16:46< fendrin> Crab_: Cool, thank you. I think the avoid is going to keep him from splitting his army of in three directions. Maybe there is a better solution than the avoid.
20100808 00:17:04< fendrin> Crab_: No, I didn't. Or I did miss it. What exactly did you do?
20100808 00:17:31< Crab_> changed the objective and tuned ai gold/income
20100808 00:17:44< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45347 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/ (4 files): Cleaned up some uncleared stored units.
20100808 00:18:10< Crab_> It's doable on hard, and doable in many ways on normal/easy
20100808 00:18:18< Crab_> and the 'look&feel' is quite different
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20100808 00:43:59< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45348 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/05_Northern_Outpost.cfg: Made Dacyn not disappear in 'Northern Outpost' while casting the spell, but instead to simply stay immobile without moves and attacks.
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20100808 02:07:42< billynux> I'm off, bye y'all
20100808 02:07:47< CIA-87> billynux * r45349 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20100808 02:07:47< CIA-87> Added an ANA net_id indicating invalid ID and fixed a bug that occurs when
20100808 02:07:47< CIA-87> trying to connect to a non responsive server (e.g. google.com:15000) by only
20100808 02:07:47< CIA-87> calling handle_connect once, maybe a more elegant solution to this problem
20100808 02:07:47< CIA-87> should be devised, ATM it seems to work. Another bug found involves locking the
20100808 02:07:47< CIA-87> GUI while trying to connect, an implementation using threading::waiter wasn't
20100808 02:07:48< CIA-87> succesful (maybe the SDL thread can't work with asio? ... or my implementation
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20100808 02:32:34< CIA-87> jetryl * r45350 /trunk/data/core/images/units/saurians/ambusher/ (4 files): Added defense animations for the higher-level saurians.
20100808 02:32:44< CIA-87> jetryl * r45351 /trunk/data/core/images/units/saurians/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Added defense animations for the higher-level saurians.
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20100808 02:46:12< Upthorn> I have a question for someone who is knowledgable on the subject of networking
20100808 02:47:28< Sirp> Upthorn: well I don't think anyone's going to claim their knowledgable, because if you asked your question and they didn't know the answer that'd be embarassing. :) But ask and we'll see if anyone knows.
20100808 02:47:32< Upthorn> in playmp_controller::before_human_turn, is it very important that playsingle_controller::before_human_turn be called before turn_data_ is constructed?
20100808 02:47:34< Sirp> s/their/they're/
20100808 02:47:53< Upthorn> like, is it possible for changing the order of these things to break sync?
20100808 02:48:15< Sirp> oh. I don't know. Would have to review the code. :)
20100808 02:48:44< Upthorn> I ask because if turn_data_ = new turn_info(...) happens before playsingle_controller::before_human_turn, it allows for [end_turn] to happen in side x turn y events
20100808 02:49:28< Upthorn> but otherwise, [end_turn] in a side x turn y event will cause a segfault as playmp_controller::after_human_turn is called while turn_data_ is still a null pointer.
20100808 02:50:01< Upthorn> so if the order is not very important to prevent mp desyncs, I think this should be changed.
20100808 02:51:22< Upthorn> I have just done some local testing with the order changed, and did not experience any issues with sync as a result, but I thought I should double check to be absolutely certain before I commit.
20100808 02:54:51< Upthorn> Sirp: for reference, playmp_controller::before_human_turn is playmp_controller.cpp line 145, the turn_info constructor is playturn.cpp line 35, and playsingle_controller::before_human_turn is playsingle_controller.cpp line 634
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20100808 03:53:02< ElCaballero> Hello
20100808 03:53:43< ElCaballero> I think Wesnoth needs more prerequisites that wiki say.
20100808 03:54:10< ElCaballero> I could compile it after to install "libbosst1.40-all-dev"
20100808 03:54:47< fendrin> ElCaballero: Feel free to correct the wiki. 
20100808 03:57:18< PetePorty> ...
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20100808 04:13:25< ElCaballero> can anybody verify if i put it correctly, please?
20100808 04:13:29< ElCaballero> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnoth#Prerequisites
20100808 04:13:51< ElCaballero> It look ok, but... i prefer a second opinion :$
20100808 04:14:22< ElCaballero> I added it (libboost1.40-all-dev) to prerequisites
20100808 04:14:31< shadowm_laptop> uh.
20100808 04:15:05< shadowm_laptop> ElCaballero: what version are you trying to build?
20100808 04:15:30< ElCaballero> The repository version.
20100808 04:15:39< shadowm_laptop> ElCaballero: you mean SVN trunk?
20100808 04:15:43< ElCaballero> yes.
20100808 04:15:52< ElCaballero> I did "svn update" 15 minutes ago.
20100808 04:15:54< shadowm_laptop> you could have asked in here instead of installing the all package :)
20100808 04:16:00< shadowm_laptop> the new dependency is asio
20100808 04:16:12< shadowm_laptop> and boost threads
20100808 04:16:38< ElCaballero> hmmm. Sorry :-o
20100808 04:16:58< ElHombre> hmmm.
20100808 04:17:00< ElHombre> indeed
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20100808 04:20:03< shadowm_laptop> ElHombre: indeed what?
20100808 04:20:14< ElHombre> totally.
20100808 04:20:20< shadowm_laptop> I suspect you are trying to pull off an unfunny joke with your copycat nickname
20100808 04:20:32< ElHombre> nuh, uh.
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20100808 04:21:07< masters_potpal> Am not.
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20100808 04:22:19< PeteyP> ok, there it is.
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20100808 04:46:34< ElCaballero> How can i try to fix a bug? How can i say to wesbot "give me 1 bug to try"?
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20100808 04:50:41< shadowm_laptop> http://bugs.wesnoth.org
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20100808 04:52:32< ElCaballero> seeing...
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20100808 05:58:23< ElCaballero> hmmm, does anybody know which file process when we press a debug command? For example, "n" or "cl"
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20100808 06:05:15< ElCaballero> Code is so big, i can not find it :(. I am trying to fix a bug
20100808 06:38:48< shadowm_laptop> menu_events.cpp
20100808 06:46:02< ElCaballero> Thanks :)
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20100808 08:55:53< CIA-87> silene * r45352 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp unit.cpp): Fixed private units created without proper location.
20100808 08:55:57< CIA-87> silene * r45353 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Commented return values.
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20100808 09:02:40< CIA-87> silene * r45354 /branches/1.8/src/unit.cpp: 
20100808 09:02:40< CIA-87> Fixed private units created without proper location.
20100808 09:02:40< CIA-87> Backported from trunk r45352.
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20100808 09:58:45< Ivanovic> moin
20100808 10:02:02< Upthorn> Hmm. I don't suppose there's any chance that crab_ is monitoring the logs right now and will join the channel as soon as I say his name...
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20100808 10:03:50< Ivanovic> Upthorn: yeah, this is unlikely
20100808 10:03:55< Upthorn> Damn. well no harm done by trying.
20100808 10:03:57< Ivanovic> though it is 11am local time for him
20100808 10:04:12< Ivanovic> you could write what you want anyway, since he tends to read the logs
20100808 10:06:20< Upthorn> hrm. I'm not sure how to explain what I want to talk about in a non-interactive way.
20100808 10:07:12< Upthorn> I have what he told me to do done, and the thing after it, but both of them required code modifications that I am worried may impact sync in network play
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20100808 10:10:48< Ivanovic> so you'd like him to review your latest changes for the impact regarding network sync to make sure that there are no problems introduced, right?
20100808 10:11:00< Upthorn> right
20100808 10:11:33< Ivanovic> should be clear enough for Crab_ to get an idea what he could do while you are asleep
20100808 10:11:51< Upthorn> one of the changes is really simple, just swapping the order of two lines in playmp_controller::before_human_turn
20100808 10:12:25< Upthorn> but just that leaves WML authors with greatly restricted ability to make use of persistent variables in MP contexts
20100808 10:12:59< zookeeper> silene, in multiplayer_connect.cpp:1632, there's a hardcoded objectives string for MP, but it lacks the bullet prefix since it doesn't go through the lua function for [objectives].
20100808 10:14:00< zookeeper> (also, you might want to again proofread my changes to that function)
20100808 10:14:16< Upthorn> meanwhile expanding that ability to a more reasonable level means either modifying mp_sync::get_user_choice, or duplicating it elsewhere, and I'm really hesitant about commiting any code along these lines
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20100808 10:16:40< Upthorn> because, as silene pointed out to me when I did so without thinking the other day, it was incredibly recent that a very nasty MP sync bug was rooted out, and that particular function is critical to the fix.
20100808 10:41:06< CIA-87> silene * r45355 /trunk/src/ (builder.cpp builder.hpp): Improved scenario start time by speeding up terrain rule build by 30%.
20100808 10:41:44< silene> zookeeper: we could either hardcode the bullet in the source (simple) or hardcore a whole [objectives] tag in the source (harder)
20100808 10:43:11< silene> zookeeper: you haven't put translation tags on the arguments of objective_footnote macro
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20100808 10:45:44< silene> zookeeper: the code seems sensible
20100808 10:46:11< zookeeper> silene, right, good catch, i'll fix those...
20100808 11:05:44< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45356 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Added missing translation markers to objective footnotes.
20100808 11:06:28< zookeeper> silene, regarding the bullet, i guess you'd prefer the simple solution?
20100808 11:07:24< silene> zookeeper: not really, but i don't feel like coding the harder one, so the trivial one will do
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20100808 11:09:00< zookeeper> silene, ok. would t_string(N_("&#8226; Defeat enemy leader(s)"), "wesnoth") work? i can't test that...
20100808 11:10:22< silene> zookeeper: it would work, but i would rather move the bullet to the string before, so as to not change the translatable one
20100808 11:11:33< zookeeper> right, of course
20100808 11:11:35< zookeeper> i can commit that change
20100808 11:11:58< silene> please do
20100808 11:13:19< Ivanovic> AI0867, boucman, eleazar, elias, Espreon, fendrin, shadowmaster, silene, Soliton, thespaceinvader, Upthorn, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: ready for 1.8.4 in 5 hours?
20100808 11:13:38< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45357 /trunk/src/multiplayer_connect.cpp: Prefixed the default MP objectives with a bullet.
20100808 11:13:47< boucman> ok for me
20100808 11:13:49< zookeeper> Ivanovic, yeah, i'll be ready
20100808 11:14:23-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.4 planned today at 16:30 GMT+2 | 136 bugs, 286 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100808 11:16:47< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45358 /trunk/data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Added a reminder note to also change the hardcoded default multiplayer objectives if the [objectives] text formatting gets changed.
20100808 11:17:06< CIA-87> silene * r45359 /trunk/src/ (builder.cpp builder.hpp): Optimized further the building of rotated rules. This brings the speed up of the previous commit up to 70%.
20100808 11:17:09< silene> Ivanovic: okay for me
20100808 11:20:02< Upthorn> I don't think I need to make any changes before 1.8.4
20100808 11:20:43< thespaceinvader> Ivanovic: nothing in the pipeline for 1.8
20100808 11:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.8.4 planned today at 16:30 GMT+2 | 135 bugs, 286 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100808 11:33:57< CIA-87> silene * r45360 /trunk/src/ (builder.cpp builder.hpp): Optimized further the building of rotated rules. This brings the speed up of the previous commits up to 90%.
20100808 11:36:16< Ivanovic> wow, those improvements sound insane...
20100808 11:36:47< Ivanovic> basically as if 1.9.0 will be rather complex (regarding how the rulebuilding works) but still damn fast
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20100808 11:44:52< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45361 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/19c_Cliffs_of_Thoria.cfg: Ported most of r45328 to 1.8.
20100808 11:49:19< silene> Ivanovic: basically, i'm profiling the test scenario and trying to improve the engine; the current breakdown is about: 35% for loading the cache, 30% for building terrain rules, 25% for "playing" (that is, alt+f4 when the objectives show up), 10% miscellaneous
20100808 11:49:51< Ivanovic> hmm, interesting
20100808 11:50:27< Ivanovic> especially since the cache should "only" be the units stuff, not campaigns and the likes
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20100808 11:50:46< Ivanovic> where terrains is basically "all terrains" since there are not this many campaign specific ones
20100808 11:50:47< Ivanovic> hi Crab_
20100808 11:50:51< Crab_> hi, Ivanovic
20100808 11:50:56< Ivanovic> Crab_: you should read the logs, Upthorn left you some messages
20100808 11:51:12< silene> Ivanovic: unit stuff and terrain stuff
20100808 11:51:16< Crab_> Ivanovic: ok
20100808 11:51:28< Upthorn> I'm still here actually.
20100808 11:51:45< Upthorn> so I can discuss it if you have time
20100808 11:53:10< Ivanovic> WOW
20100808 11:53:21< Ivanovic> silene: startup time of the game is down to "close to nothing"
20100808 11:53:31< Ivanovic> that is: starting httt still takes a long while
20100808 11:54:08< silene> Ivanovic: yes, alink removed parsing terrains from the things necessary for the titlescreen
20100808 11:54:44< Ivanovic> ahh, lovely
20100808 11:54:46< zookeeper> does that increase the starting time of a scenario then?
20100808 11:55:00< Ivanovic> zookeeper: yes, the stuff seems to be moved over there
20100808 11:55:12< Ivanovic> but it is only really relevant when starting a campaign the first time
20100808 11:55:19< silene> zookeeper: no, it was parsed nonetheless (due to custom terrains)
20100808 11:55:40< Ivanovic> and then we have all stuff required to eg display nice loading screens showing tips / artwork
20100808 11:55:47< Ivanovic> (which is not the case at initial game start)
20100808 11:55:54< zookeeper> ha, ok. sounds like a good change.
20100808 11:57:06< Ivanovic> uhm, some problems in the ingame help
20100808 11:57:17< Ivanovic> just started the game, went to the ingame help to watch at the terrains
20100808 11:57:25< silene> Ivanovic: i just did the same ;-)
20100808 11:57:30< Ivanovic> http://pastebin.com/zNYFrBgU
20100808 11:57:41< Ivanovic> many terrain images ain't displayed there, no idea why
20100808 11:58:56< silene> because they don't exist in the data
20100808 11:59:20< zookeeper> well, the terrain definitions should be parsed at game start, just not terrain graphics
20100808 11:59:38< Ivanovic> silene: the strange thing is that *some* are in fact displayed, just not all
20100808 11:59:46< Ivanovic> eg the villages seem to appear
20100808 12:00:06< Ivanovic> there only terrain/village/human-city-tile.png is reported problematic, the others are there
20100808 12:00:55< silene> Ivanovic: yes, and since the help is no better inside a scenario, i guess it points the terrain changes by eleazar rather than alink's optimization
20100808 12:01:30< zookeeper> Ivanovic, probably due to the image reorganizations
20100808 12:01:49< silene> Ivanovic: namely, data/core/help.cfg is not uptodate
20100808 12:02:09< Ivanovic> ARGH
20100808 12:02:11< zookeeper> if those need to be updated by hand, then i guess i can do it...
20100808 12:02:15< Ivanovic> okay, this explains everything
20100808 12:02:22< Ivanovic> zookeeper: i assume they need to be updated
20100808 12:02:47< zookeeper> i'm not sure if there are wmllint rules for (most of) those path conversions
20100808 12:03:44< Ivanovic> most likely not, since someone would have to write them and i think eleazar has not done it
20100808 12:04:10< zookeeper> anyway, looks like they could use some manual updating anyway since there's new tiles that ought to be displayed there
20100808 12:04:15< zookeeper> i'll see what i can do...
20100808 12:04:27< Ivanovic> here is the list of broken terrains in the ingame help that i got access to (switched my game to english and clicked each entry in the list once): http://pastebin.com/emr3xhXt
20100808 12:11:03< Upthorn> Crab_: do you have time now?
20100808 12:11:14< Crab_> hi. yes.
20100808 12:12:27< Upthorn> I did try out your idea of advancing through each side's turn to get data from them
20100808 12:12:47< Crab_> ok,and , did it, at least partially, worked ?
20100808 12:12:58< Upthorn> and discovered that [end_turn] in side x turn y events causes a segfault, at least in side x turn 1
20100808 12:13:17< zookeeper> Crab_, ah, you're here. one thing i'd like to get fixed in 1.8.4 would be the final scenario in liberty...presumably the AI of the loyalists in halstead (side 2) is stupid and charges out in the open, whereas it should stay and try to defend the fort.
20100808 12:13:37< Crab_> Upthorn: yes, the issues you've described to Sirp, I've looked a bit through the logs..
20100808 12:13:48< zookeeper> the AI params seem very sensible and i think they resulted in sensible behaviour too in some earlier releases
20100808 12:13:57< Crab_> zookeeper: I've got 1.8 compiling right now, so I'll take a look at it
20100808 12:14:03< zookeeper> Crab_, great, thanks
20100808 12:14:21< zookeeper> i haven't actually tested it myself but people have reported that on the forums quite a few times now
20100808 12:14:30< Upthorn> it can be corrected by switching two lines in playmp_controller::before_human_turn(), but I didn't commit because I noticed that one of the lines causes data to be sent
20100808 12:14:42< Upthorn> so I wasn't sure if it could affect sync.
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20100808 12:15:45< Upthorn> unfortunately, the only way I could find to reset to turn one afterwards was [endlevel] with next_scenario=(the current scenario id)
20100808 12:16:02< Upthorn> which has the side-effect of saving a replay, as well as firing start and prestart again
20100808 12:16:40< Crab_> Upthorn: we can simply delay end_turn till data_ is constructed, without switching any behavior
20100808 12:17:03< Crab_> Upthorn: e.g., ignore it if turn data is empty, and recheck when it's ready
20100808 12:17:18< Crab_> where 'ignore' is 'set a flag but do nothing else'
20100808 12:17:48< Upthorn> Crab_: what I did was move the construction of turn_data_ one line sooner, which did not seem to cause problems when I tested on LAN
20100808 12:20:34< Upthorn> before_human_turn now looks like http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/CM0rkmCx in my working copy
20100808 12:29:00< Upthorn> I can't make it check turn_data_ right before it throws the exception, because turn_data_ doesn't exist in playsingle_controller, which is where the exception is thrown
20100808 12:30:23< Upthorn> I could make it check turn_data_ at thes start of after_human_turn, though
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20100808 12:32:16< Upthorn> in which case turn_data_ will simply have to be constructed there, because the exception will have already happened and I won't be able to return to that code path
20100808 12:32:22< CIA-87> silene * r45362 /trunk/src/serialization/parser.cpp: Avoided creating temporary translatable strings for plain ones. This speeds up parsing by 50%.
20100808 12:36:20< Upthorn> Crab_: so would you rather I make http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/VG3CMEAr this change or http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/BbR2uGng this change?
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20100808 12:41:48< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45363 /trunk/data/core/ (images/terrain/village/human-city-tile.png terrain.cfg): Added missing human-city-tile.png.
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20100808 12:43:43< fendrin> Crab_: Hi
20100808 12:44:14< Crab_> fendrin: hi
20100808 12:44:33< Crab_> Upthorn: looking...
20100808 12:44:51< fendrin> Crab_: I would like to have a playable scenario 14 in that 1.8.4 release.
20100808 12:45:10< fendrin> Crab_: I have already adjusted the gold. It is only the ai thing that is missing.
20100808 12:46:14< CIA-87> fendrin * r45364 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/14_Human_Alliance.cfg: LoW 14: Balancing by reducing the orks gold.
20100808 12:48:15< Ivanovic> fendrin, zookeeper: please do not forget the 1.8 changelog entries
20100808 12:48:45< Ivanovic> (since the amount of changes is not this high i think that most changes should be listed, simply to make it not look as if "nothing was changed")
20100808 12:49:17< Crab_> Upthorn: extract those two lines into separate function ( if turn_data==NULL create-new-turn-data). and then, I'd prefer solution (2) - do that init right before we need non-null turn-data. 
20100808 12:49:49< Upthorn> ok.
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20100808 12:51:06< CIA-87> fendrin * r45365 /branches/1.8/ (changelog players_changelog): Changelog entry for LoW 14 balancing commit.
20100808 12:55:28< Crab_> Upthorn: also note that you can be sure that you won't break any existing non-broken things that way - since the only changed case is when turn_data_ is NULL at end-of-turn, which is, as I understand, not working atm.
20100808 12:55:48< Upthorn> okay
20100808 12:59:09< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45366 /trunk/data/core/help.cfg: Fixed broken image paths in terrain help.
20100808 12:59:16< CIA-87> upthorn * r45367 /trunk/src/ (playmp_controller.cpp playmp_controller.hpp): correct segfault if [end_turn] is fired (or playmp_controller::after_human_turn() is reached by any means) before turn_data_ is initialized.
20100808 13:07:22< Crab_> Upthorn: I suggest moving the if turn_data_!=NULL check inside init_data, and check to see that all usages are corrected (there might be other places in playmp_controller where new turn_data is constructed )
20100808 13:08:37< Crab_> Upthorn: but, firstly, check if it's ok (it might be that we need to overwrite old turn_data each turn - then, disregard the first part of the suggestion)
20100808 13:09:51< Upthorn> I think I'll leave the if turn_data_ outside, but replace the other calls.
20100808 13:10:15< Upthorn> that way the conditions are not changed.
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20100808 13:11:06< Crab_> ok, good
20100808 13:13:33< fendrin> Crab_: I have playtested your new LoW 1 in trunk.
20100808 13:13:57< CIA-87> upthorn * r45368 /trunk/src/playmp_controller.cpp: replaced other instances of turn_data_ initialization with calls to helper function for that purpose.
20100808 13:14:08< Crab_> fendrin: and, what do you think ?
20100808 13:14:53< fendrin> Crab_: Good work. I like your changes. I hope that the new gameplay is still fine with santi. 
20100808 13:15:16< Crab_> note the trick with 'less starting gold, more income'
20100808 13:15:27< Crab_> generally, it makes the ai recruit better
20100808 13:15:37< fendrin> Crab_: He planned to let Velon die no matter what happens. So even if he survive we will need to let him stay behind and sacrifice himself.
20100808 13:16:47< Upthorn> Crab_: do you think a modification of the first MPC_Sandbox scenario will be sufficient for a demonstration of persistent variables?
20100808 13:17:29< Crab_> fendrin: I thought that it was handled by dialogue at the end of scenario
20100808 13:17:47< Upthorn> I just did a quick modification so that each side's leader is saved at the end and loaded at the beginning
20100808 13:18:42< Crab_> Upthorn: yes, but if you can simplify it, even better
20100808 13:18:58< Crab_> Upthorn: if it's already simple to see how it works, ok.
20100808 13:19:03< fendrin> Crab_: Yes, it should. I have to check if the dialogue still fits to the changed objectives. At least the scenario is no longer an exact copy of httt 1, objective wise.
20100808 13:19:07< Upthorn> and spent an afternoon levelling testman to a halberdier and sidekick to archmage
20100808 13:19:51< Upthorn> followed by switching machines and levelling testman to a spearman and sidekick to a silver mage
20100808 13:20:03< Crab_> )
20100808 13:20:23< Crab_> yes, not like httt 1 anymore:)
20100808 13:21:12< fendrin> Crab_: The story should indicate that one of the orcs needs to be killed in order to make one of the possible fleeing paths free. 
20100808 13:21:20< Crab_> fendrin: have you played it on hard, btw ?
20100808 13:22:14< fendrin> Crab_: No, it was on medium. Took the nearest right leader as a target since he seemed the easiest one. But the map does balance his position and small keep to a degree because there are no villages around.
20100808 13:22:48< Crab_> fendrin: yes, on easy/medium the right leader is a good alternate target
20100808 13:23:02< Crab_> fendrin: on hard, its just too risky - northern leader is too near :)
20100808 13:23:26< Crab_> the story message is, as of now      K:   _ "We must reach the elvish council in Ka'lian and enlist their help to recapture our home. Let's storm the orcs' southern outpost before more enemies arrive!" 
20100808 13:23:38< fendrin> Crab_: I guess the map needs a careful overhaul with the new objectives. That isn't that easy because it is reused in scenario 21.
20100808 13:23:57< Crab_> well, it feels quite ok, to me. have you noticed any things which can be improved ?
20100808 13:24:32< Upthorn> Crab_: after that, I succeeded at allowing variables to be read from inactive sides, but it involved modifying mp_sync::get_user_choice, do_replay_handle, and (server-side) game::is_legal_command to get working
20100808 13:24:52< Crab_> can you paste a diff ?
20100808 13:25:08< fendrin> Crab_: No, not on medium when taking the right one. I think with some changes to the prosa it can go in the first 1.9 release in its current state.
20100808 13:25:17< Crab_> and the thing that that is *possible* to do is great, even if we still need to look at it very carefully
20100808 13:25:24< Crab_> fendrin: good
20100808 13:25:27< Upthorn> Crab_: yes, I made a diff earlier.
20100808 13:26:02< Crab_> fendrin: if you have time and want to, try it on hard, too (taking the south leader) :)
20100808 13:26:25< Upthorn> Crab_: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/eHrDtJi7
20100808 13:26:30< Crab_> Upthorn: thanks
20100808 13:27:09< Upthorn> I did do a good deal of testing on lan and got no desync errors, but I think the way I changed do_replay_handle and game::is_legal_command is... less than ideal.
20100808 13:27:13< Crab_> Upthorn:     int side = lexical_cast_default<int>(pcfg["side"],0); - > it should default to 1
20100808 13:27:39< Crab_> since many other tags do so, and, more,   if ((*resources::teams)[side - 1].is_local()) { will break on side=0  :)
20100808 13:27:43< Upthorn> I have it defaulting to 0 at the moment because 0 is "use active player"
20100808 13:28:11< fendrin> Crab_: It would be fun if every different leader to choose would mean another strategie and each own set of advantages/disadvantages for the player.
20100808 13:28:16< Crab_> Upthorn: line 42,  if ((*resources::teams)[side - 1].is_local()) { will segfault on side=0
20100808 13:28:26< Upthorn> it is temporary until I can do proper parsing of side="global" and side="host"
20100808 13:28:30< Crab_> fendrin: yes, it is. on medium/easy, both bottom and right leaders are possible
20100808 13:29:06< Crab_> fendrin: on easy, I don't know for sure, but I think that others can be, as well.
20100808 13:29:27< Crab_> fendrin: on hard, I've not managed to kill the right one unless I'm quite lucky, and the bottom one is usually doable.
20100808 13:30:27< Upthorn> Crab_: err, yeah, I should put "if (side==0) side=resources::controller->current_side();" after all those lexical_cast_default<int>s
20100808 13:31:31< Crab_> yes
20100808 13:32:08< Crab_> or just  int side = lexical_cast_default<int>(pcfg["side"],resources::controller->current_side()); , since it's a cheap call.
20100808 13:32:29< Upthorn> yeah, and it'll be called the same number of times regardless.
20100808 13:32:34< fendrin> Crab_: That sounds good for now. I think we go with the current state in the first 1.9 release. There are more serious issues in other scenarios to solve. Let's see how the players like scenario one.
20100808 13:32:39< Crab_> ok
20100808 13:33:57< Upthorn> Crab_: I have done that.
20100808 13:37:11< Upthorn> Crab_: though I am more worried about the changes in other files, since those parts in persist_var are going to have to be changed anyway and for the moment can only be used by wml that I've made, which would never trigger the segfaults, because I know about them
20100808 13:39:35< Upthorn> Crab_: I am worried more about line 147, which was a quick-fix to remove a false desync report which would always be generated when inactive player's had their variables read.
20100808 13:39:57< Upthorn> I think that the way I have done this is wrong, but I am not certain what the correct way is.
20100808 13:41:00< Upthorn> I am also concerned about the change to mp_sync::get_user_choice, seen in lines 157-166, and 179
20100808 13:42:59< Upthorn> and the change to game::is_legal seen on line 191, which was a quick-fix, like the one on line 147, to prevent the server from removing out-of-turn global_variable responses.
20100808 13:47:00< CIA-87> upthorn * r45369 /trunk/src/playmp_controller.cpp: woops, forgot a ; in r45368
20100808 13:47:58< Crab_> Upthorn: well, the server change seems ok, as it's simple, clear, and gets the job done
20100808 13:50:53< Upthorn> I think that for mp_sync::get_user_choice, it might be better to reimplement the functionality instead of modifying the core code that everything uses.
20100808 13:52:59< Crab_> well, code duplication is not a good thing
20100808 13:54:03< Upthorn> even though the behavior will remain the same for any current code, it feels like it might be bad to make the side override public.
20100808 13:55:03< Upthorn> since it requires a fair amount of additional support that I didn't want to put inside that function
20100808 13:55:20< Crab_> Upthorn: what is the definition of user_choice ?
20100808 13:55:35< Crab_> as in `const user_choice &uch`
20100808 13:56:26< Upthorn> Crab_: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/hDEQadrd
20100808 13:56:36< Upthorn> this is the abstract base that silene provided.
20100808 13:57:07< Upthorn> if I am not getting confused about who implemented the sync framework
20100808 13:57:50< Upthorn> for get_global_variable I have http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/2FSXkWhY
20100808 14:00:30< Crab_> Upthorn: if you modify this struct to contain a virtual int side() { return resources::controller->current_side(); }, you can get away without having to change the function signature of mp_sync::get_user_choice()
20100808 14:01:29< Crab_> and, from the current patch I see that you are not breaking anything. but it requires more research to see if the method you propose is bulletproof
20100808 14:01:34< Crab_> it works in your tests, right ?
20100808 14:01:53< Upthorn> it works in my tests, yes, though I've only worked over lan in one scenario with two sides.
20100808 14:04:41< Upthorn> Crab_: since user_choice is an integral part of the get_user_choice interface, I do not see how changing that would be any better than changing the function signature
20100808 14:07:29< silene> agreed, i prefer the signature change
20100808 14:08:06< Upthorn> silene: is the signature change acceptable, or would you prefer that I reimplement the required codepaths where I need to use them?
20100808 14:08:49< silene> Upthorn: the signature change is acceptable; but only if you precisely document in which cases it is allowed to pass an argument
20100808 14:09:44< Upthorn> silene: that is reasonable.
20100808 14:10:44< silene> Upthorn: by the way, in your patch, you never test that side is in bounds, that's a security breach
20100808 14:11:25< Upthorn> silene: good catch. I noticed that at one point but I completely forgot about it.
20100808 14:12:44< silene> Upthorn: also, don't use lexical_cast_default, the value is already an integer; no need to first convert it to a string and then back to an integer
20100808 14:13:05< silene> Upthorn: hum no, sorry, it's a vconfig, forget what i said
20100808 14:13:13< Upthorn> silene: the value is not already an i... yes
20100808 14:13:43< Upthorn> additionally my next step is to support side=host, which will definitely be a string to begin with.
20100808 14:14:18< Upthorn> even if it wasn't a vconfig.
20100808 14:16:14< Upthorn> this just leaves my change to do_replay_handle.
20100808 14:17:13< Upthorn> I feel like what I did there is wrong, but I am not sure how to do it right.
20100808 14:19:07< Upthorn> if I don't have something in there to handle the "global_variable" data, the receiving side will report a desync due to unrecognized action, but it seems like just checking for that child before reporting might leave a vulnerability somehow.
20100808 14:20:19< Crab_> Upthorn: btw, what is line 98 in your patch - just some copypaste glitch ?
20100808 14:20:34< Crab_> (     if (( != resources::controller->current_side())    )
20100808 14:21:12< Upthorn> oh hang on. I fixed that in code but forgot to make the patch a second time
20100808 14:21:17< silene> Upthorn: where is the actual value of the remote global variable read?
20100808 14:21:28< Upthorn> it's if((side != resources::controller->current_side())
20100808 14:21:56< silene> Upthorn: scrap that question, i see it
20100808 14:22:06< Upthorn> sil-- ok then
20100808 14:23:17< silene> Upthorn: so you are discarding the tag only for the side who sent it, right?
20100808 14:23:32< silene> /s/are/need to/
20100808 14:27:43< Upthorn> silene: oh, yes, that would explain what was happening
20100808 14:29:59< silene> Upthorn: global_variable is not an observer command, you should mark it illegal there
20100808 14:30:20< Upthorn> in the server?
20100808 14:30:47< silene> yes
20100808 14:32:17< Upthorn> silene: like this? http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/avp4DDb7
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20100808 14:35:13< silene> Upthorn: yes; even better (but i don't know how feasible), you should put the side inside global_variable; so the command would be legal only when sent by the correct side; and clients would display an error message only if they receive in do_replay_handle a global_variable not sent by them
20100808 14:37:07< Upthorn> silene: it would be feasible to add the side of the sender to the [global_variable] within the replay, but I am not certain how I could make the server know what side it was requested from.
20100808 14:37:54< Upthorn> it would let me tighten up do_replay_handle, though
20100808 14:38:26< zookeeper> Crab_, got time for liberty yet?
20100808 14:38:32< Upthorn> so that even if the server can't mark it as illegal, all the clients can
20100808 14:39:17< silene> Upthorn: the server does something similar in current_player()
20100808 14:39:57< silene> (that's how it decides to call is_legal_command in the first place)
20100808 14:41:05< silene> Upthorn: something like sides_[global_var_side] == player
20100808 14:41:17< silene> i meant user->first, not player
20100808 14:43:51< Upthorn> I see. I guess I could do that.
20100808 14:43:54< Crab_> zookeeper: no, but I expect I'll be able to, in ~10-15 minutes
20100808 14:44:50< zookeeper> Crab_, ok, cool. i'll have time to grab some dinner first...
20100808 14:46:03 * Upthorn just had his second meal of the day... at 5:45 AM. The first was at 7:00 PM...
20100808 15:23:59< CIA-87> crab * r45371 /branches/1.8/src/ai/contexts.cpp: backport of r44778 - allow multiple versions of same ai type of AI engine to coexist
20100808 15:24:03< CIA-87> crab * r45372 /branches/1.8/src/ai/testing/ca.cpp: backport of r44791 - fixed Bug #16102 - made AI cancel attack if it's no longer valid due to WML at moveto.
20100808 15:24:04< CIA-87> crab * r45370 /branches/1.8/src/ai/composite/ (engine_lua.cpp engine_lua.hpp): backport of r44777 - fix serialization of lua ai engine to config
20100808 15:24:10< CIA-87> crab * r45373 /branches/1.8/changelog: changelog entries
20100808 15:28:08< Crab_> zookeeper: if you have time, you can help with playtesting
20100808 15:28:43< zookeeper> Crab_, well, sure, but i need a build for that
20100808 15:29:35< CIA-87> crab * r45374 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/08_Glory.cfg: more defensive AI for last scenario of Liberty
20100808 15:29:37< Crab_> zookeeper: no, I think you only need r45374
20100808 15:29:49< Crab_> zookeeper: earlier commits are unrelated bugfixes
20100808 15:30:11< zookeeper> oh, ok. i'll try it right away with my 1.8.3 build then...
20100808 15:30:31< CIA-87> silene * r45375 /trunk/src/builder.cpp: Avoided querying twice the same attributes.
20100808 15:32:32< zookeeper> Crab_, the [goal] with the royal guards makes the AI consider the royal guards to be 10 times more "valuable" than normally, or something like that?
20100808 15:33:04< Crab_> it marks them as 'targets', so, when no enemies are near, AI will move closer to them
20100808 15:33:42< Crab_> I still need to add some things in there, to make those royal guards obey 'guardian' special
20100808 15:34:19< zookeeper> okay
20100808 15:37:51< Crab_> and the Dragoons misbehave, of course..
20100808 15:39:33< CIA-87> crab * r45376 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/08_Glory.cfg: some more AI changes in Liberty 08
20100808 15:39:47< Crab_> I've forbidden the AI to recruit them, it's better this way, for now
20100808 15:40:10< zookeeper> Crab_, they still seem to be pretty easy to lure out of the fort
20100808 15:40:46< Crab_> yes, if the enemies are near. I'm searching for a way to deal with this, atm
20100808 15:41:29< zookeeper> all right
20100808 15:41:32< Crab_> their reinforcements need to be from different side
20100808 15:41:57< Crab_> since their behavior is different, we might get better results if the 'original' defenders of the fort are 'contained' in the fort
20100808 15:42:02< zookeeper> yeah, they are
20100808 15:42:22< zookeeper> (if you mean the reinforcements coming from the right side of the map)
20100808 15:42:29< Crab_> yes, those
20100808 15:42:35< zookeeper> yeah, they're side 3
20100808 15:42:51< Crab_> ok, great
20100808 15:45:27< zookeeper> ideally i guess the defenders wouldn't mind coming out to attack, but then they should return to the fort instead of starting to chase everything
20100808 15:46:47< zookeeper> that is, if they can inflict lots of damage then sure, they can come out, but they should be less and less reluctant the further away the target is...or something similar
20100808 15:47:05< zookeeper> err, s/less and less/more and more ;)
20100808 15:49:51< zookeeper> 6 hex radius from the center should be the area they're comfortable with...8-9 hex radius should be quite possible if they can inflict good damage, but getting them to come further away than that shouldn't be easy
20100808 15:51:04< Crab_> can you give me a SLF which will match the 'safe' area in the center ?
20100808 15:51:11< zookeeper> sure..
20100808 15:51:33< zookeeper> [filter] [filter_location] x,y=20,16 radius=6
20100808 15:51:48< zookeeper> err, that's an SUF though
20100808 15:51:54< zookeeper> but you get the idea i'm sure ;)
20100808 15:52:03< Crab_> )
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20100808 15:53:25< zookeeper> can you have a negative value= ?
20100808 15:53:46< zookeeper> like name=protect_location with value=-10 to make the units really not want to go there
20100808 15:54:01< Crab_> it won't help
20100808 15:54:12< zookeeper> ok, so i always have to make them want to go everywhere else?
20100808 15:54:23< Crab_> as of now, attacks take place before strategic movement
20100808 15:54:57< Crab_> and there's no way to 'penaltize' attacks in a certain area
20100808 15:55:07< zookeeper> i see
20100808 15:55:21< Crab_> and any protect/target affect 'strategic movement' phase, they kind of, "place markers on the map"
20100808 15:56:22< zookeeper> so are all [goal]s only for "strategic movement"?
20100808 15:56:28< Crab_> yes
20100808 15:56:35< zookeeper> got it
20100808 15:56:47< Crab_> that is, they are usually obeyed only when no enemies are near
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20100808 15:59:02< zookeeper> Crab_, so would it make sense to change the AI phase order (for that side) so that combat happens last and move_to_targets happens before it?
20100808 15:59:34< Crab_> zookeeper: no, move to targets moves all units - there won't be anything left to combat with
20100808 15:59:47< Crab_> zookeeper: but we can insert an additional 'hand-made' movement phase before combat
20100808 16:01:30< zookeeper> what do you mean by "there won't be anything left to combat with"? wouldn't units which still happen to have some movement left (or which are next to an enemy) still attack?
20100808 16:02:43< Crab_> well, move_to_targets would move units without any consideration for their 'combat power' - so, some units might happen to end next to enemy, but it's not guaranteed in any way
20100808 16:07:54< CIA-87> crab * r45377 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/08_Glory.cfg: Liberty 08: AI : forbid the fort defenders to move out of the fort
20100808 16:07:56< Crab_> zookeeper: take a look at this way of doing things ^
20100808 16:08:24 * zookeeper looks
20100808 16:08:26< Crab_> it's when side is told to avoid everything not in the SLF you've given
20100808 16:10:00< Crab_> zookeeper: and, check side 1 - is it intended that it can't recruit anything ?
20100808 16:11:28< zookeeper> Crab_, well, no, but if you're playing normally then you'll be carrying over your recruit list from previous scenarios
20100808 16:11:36< Crab_> ok
20100808 16:11:59< zookeeper> might be nice to add it explicitly so it works if you've just :n'd to it in debug mode too, but doesn't matter for normal play
20100808 16:14:25< Crab_> if you rewrite the SLF to be more quick-to-evaluate, then the speed will improve
20100808 16:14:41< Crab_> e.g., if you rework it as a serie of x,y groups
20100808 16:15:50< zookeeper> Crab_, ok, the AI is much more sensible now
20100808 16:15:56< zookeeper> right, i'll do that
20100808 16:16:03< Crab_> if you like how it works now, it would also be nice if every unit of side3 which has reached the citadel would be transferred to side2
20100808 16:16:22< Crab_> note, by the way, that protect_location and target work quite differently
20100808 16:16:41< Crab_> protect location goal puts a 'target' mark on every unit which appears close enough to protected area.
20100808 16:16:51< Crab_> so, if no enemy units are near protected area now, it does nothing
20100808 16:17:41< Crab_> target, on the other hand, works always if unit is alive - so, targeting a friendly unit is a good way to move units to that friendly unit
20100808 16:17:58< Crab_> especially if you remove other targets like leaders and villages (leader_value to 0 and village_value to 0)
20100808 16:18:47< Crab_> (also note that targeting a leader who's recruiting is not always a good thing since it can prevent recruiting if there's no place in castle)
20100808 16:19:27< zookeeper> ok, making some tweaks now...
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20100808 16:23:40< Crab_> zookeeper: also note that there are existing formula_ai formulas which allow the ai to 'push' to specified locations, attacking enemy units along the way, but ignoring those enemy units which do not bar way to target location
20100808 16:23:54< zookeeper> Crab_, i don't see any "avoid" on the Customizing_AI_in_Wesnoth_1.8 page...is it missing or am i missing something?
20100808 16:25:38< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, it's missing from http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Customizing_AI_in_Wesnoth_1.8#General_Parameters
20100808 16:28:23< Crab_> added it there
20100808 16:29:40< zookeeper> cool
20100808 16:30:09< zookeeper> great, now this AI really feels like it's trying to defend instead of just charging at everything
20100808 16:31:44< Crab_> but note that this is just a workaround for the AI doing wrong attacks at the wrong time...
20100808 16:35:16< Ivanovic> okay, so is everything ready for 1.8.4?
20100808 16:35:30< Ivanovic> especially: is there a changelog entry for the last fixes in liberty?
20100808 16:35:33< Ivanovic> ;)
20100808 16:35:54< Crab_> Ivanovic: well, if there would be more time, I'd look at LoW 14, too :)
20100808 16:36:02< zookeeper> not yet, i'm gonna add it in a minute
20100808 16:36:05< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45378 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/08_Glory.cfg: Added some income for Dommel (since he otherwise goes into negative income very quickly), decreased his starting gold a bit and tweaked the AI behaviour.
20100808 16:36:24< Ivanovic> AI0867, alink, boucman, Crab_, eleazar, elias, fendrin, loonycyborg, Rhonda, shadowmaster, silene, Soliton, thespaceinvader, Upthorn, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: ready for 1.8.4?
20100808 16:36:34< thespaceinvader> yep Ivanovic 
20100808 16:36:35< Ivanovic> Crab_: how much more time do you need?
20100808 16:36:49< eleazar> i have nothing to do with 1.8.x
20100808 16:37:02< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: Yes.
20100808 16:37:04< Ivanovic> eleazar: you are a dev with commit privs
20100808 16:37:20< Ivanovic> eleazar: eg Upthorn has no commit in 1.8 either, i highlight him anyway
20100808 16:37:21< eleazar> i know i could
20100808 16:37:22< Ivanovic> ;)
20100808 16:37:42< eleazar> i'm just saying that i haven't done anything with it
20100808 16:37:43< Crab_> Ivanovic: up to 1 hour
20100808 16:37:47< Ivanovic> especially since you do terrain stuff you *might* have some urgent bugfix regarding terrains open somewhere
20100808 16:37:50< Ivanovic> Crab_: hmm, okay
20100808 16:38:01< Ivanovic> you got exactly one hour
20100808 16:38:05< Crab_> ok
20100808 16:38:10< eleazar> i'm not aware of anything i should do
20100808 16:38:29 * Crab_ is lucky that it's not needed to recompile to test ai config changes
20100808 16:39:02< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45379 /branches/1.8/ (changelog players_changelog): Updated changelogs.
20100808 16:47:01< zookeeper> Crab_, quick question: if i add [filter_adjacent] side=2,3 count=1-2 [/filter_adjacent] to the first [criteria], would that make the units prefer not forming huge groups, but smaller groups of about 3 units?
20100808 16:47:43< zookeeper> currently they seem to rather easily clump into a massive group at one gate
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20100808 16:48:29< zookeeper> (i think that's the effect it should result in, but better be sure)
20100808 16:48:29< Crab_> zookeeper: if you're about the reinforcements, it's better to make them target the 'left' part of the citadel
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20100808 16:48:49< zookeeper> Crab_, no, the first [criteria]
20100808 16:49:00< zookeeper> line 83 atm
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20100808 16:51:31< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, it would make them prefer those royal guards which have only a few units around them, ignoring others
20100808 16:52:24< zookeeper> right
20100808 16:53:02< Crab_> zookeeper: note that you can change goals dynamically via WML events
20100808 16:53:33< Crab_> so, for example, you can check the situation at the start of the turn and set a 'move here when no enemies are near' on whatever friendly unit you like.
20100808 16:53:59< zookeeper> yeah...
20100808 16:55:03< zookeeper> Crab_, wait: that criteria's coordinates exclude the royal guards
20100808 16:55:35< Crab_> zookeeper: and ? 
20100808 16:56:04< zookeeper> well, how could the units prefer moving to the royal guards then?
20100808 16:56:40< zookeeper> (that is, as long as the royal guards stay in the starting positions)
20100808 16:57:14< Crab_> [criteria] here is a SUF
20100808 16:57:23< Crab_> in the original form, Royal guards match it
20100808 16:57:41< Crab_> so, the 'target markers' are placed near them, and ai prefers to move units nearby.
20100808 16:58:00< zookeeper> well, i mean in the current form
20100808 16:58:32< Crab_> if the royal guards still match that SLF, then the will try to move units near them
20100808 16:58:36< Crab_> s/SLF/SUF
20100808 16:58:46< Crab_> if no, then no.
20100808 16:59:01< zookeeper> so i guess my [filter_adjacent] suggestion would work
20100808 16:59:03< Crab_> you know more than me how filter_adjacent works :)
20100808 17:00:15< zookeeper> count=1-2 just means 1 or 2 units, i bet you guessed that :p
20100808 17:00:25< Crab_> yes
20100808 17:00:55< zookeeper> anyway, i suppose having really complicated filters might really make the AI turns slower, right?
20100808 17:01:09< zookeeper> presumably those are evaluated a lot of times during a turn
20100808 17:01:17< Crab_> zookeeper: depends. some are slower than others. try.
20100808 17:01:30< Crab_> zookeeper: and, sometimes, there's more than one way to do the same thing.
20100808 17:02:10< Crab_> avoid is expensive, goals are not so expensive in comparison
20100808 17:02:19< Crab_> just make sure that there are not too many goals
20100808 17:02:26< Crab_> it's ok if they're complex to calculate
20100808 17:02:43< Crab_> and, you can always precalculate them by hand if you're sure that they won't change during a turn
20100808 17:05:02< zookeeper> all right, thanks
20100808 17:15:38< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45380 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Liberty/scenarios/08_Glory.cfg: Tried to limit the size of groups the AI tends to form.
20100808 17:20:20< Crab_> zookeeper: can you show me how to add 250 gold to side ?
20100808 17:21:05< zookeeper> Crab_, [gold] side=2 amount=300 [/gold]
20100808 17:21:14< Crab_> thanks
20100808 17:21:14< zookeeper> err, s/300/250 :P
20100808 17:28:55< CIA-87> crab * r45381 /branches/1.8/ (3 files in 2 dirs): LoW 14: added more gold to human side 2, and delayed its first attack till sunrise - this should help it to survive on Hard
20100808 17:29:04< Crab_> fendrin: ^
20100808 17:29:06< Crab_> Ivanovic: ok
20100808 17:29:46< fendrin> Crab_: Thank you very much :-)
20100808 17:29:58< Crab_> fendrin: I was quite limited in time, but, apart from gold changes, I've made the human side sit a while waiting for the orcs
20100808 17:30:01< Ivanovic> okay, now everyone ready for release?
20100808 17:30:20< Crab_> fendrin: this makes them initially contact orcs on second night, and the full battle starts at dawn
20100808 17:30:35< Crab_> fendrin: so, the first orcish wave should have a really nice day.
20100808 17:31:12< fendrin> Crab_: Yeah, that might change the tide.
20100808 17:32:14< fendrin> Crab_: Is it already tested? So I can give Ivanovic a go.
20100808 17:32:29< Crab_> fendrin: yes, I've tested it once, on hard
20100808 17:33:09< Crab_> fendrin: so, it might not be good, but it's definitely better than it was.
20100808 17:33:10< fendrin> Crab_: Well, I guess it can be released. At least the ai can't behave much more stupid as it did.
20100808 17:33:22< fendrin> :-)
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20100808 17:33:34< fendrin> Ivanovic: I am ready.
20100808 17:33:38< zookeeper> Ivanovic, can you wait for 5 minutes?
20100808 17:33:41< CIA-87> silene * r45382 /trunk/src/ (config.cpp config.hpp): 
20100808 17:33:41< CIA-87> Sped up child lookup by converting the value argument only once.
20100808 17:33:41< CIA-87> Avoided using a translatable string argument since it was stored as plain string anyway.
20100808 17:33:46< Ivanovic> zookeeper: sure
20100808 17:34:14< zookeeper> great...i'll get rid of dela's invincibility since everyone hates it so much ;)
20100808 17:34:45< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45383 /branches/1.8/po/ (179 files in 23 dirs): 
20100808 17:34:45< CIA-87> pot-update, preparing for 1.8.4 (reference update only, no new/changed strings)
20100808 17:34:45< CIA-87> regenerated doc files (no changes here...)
20100808 17:34:52< Crab_> fendrin: of course, on hard, he still won't survive the second of the nights without player's help, but, at least, it won't be the player fighting alone :)
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20100808 17:35:57< fendrin> Crab_: I did also reduce the gold by a massive amount. I hope that doesn't make it too easy. 
20100808 17:36:45< fendrin> Crab_: There have been people telling on the forum that they enjoyed the scenario in it's current state. They needed to do several times but at least one gave it a 9 out of 10.
20100808 17:37:23< Crab_> well, we can always play with gold values
20100808 17:37:35< Crab_> but, at least, it's not *just* the gold changes - behavior was changed, too
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20100808 17:38:03< zookeeper> testing my change, shouldn't take long...
20100808 17:44:51< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45384 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/ (maps/Alone_at_last.map scenarios/10_Alone_at_Last.cfg): Ported r43886 and r45205 to 1.8.
20100808 17:46:14< zookeeper> ok, i'm done
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20100808 17:46:28< zookeeper> oops, changelog commit didn't go through...
20100808 17:48:17< Ivanovic> svn up and retry...
20100808 17:48:28< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45385 /branches/1.8/ (changelog players_changelog): Updated changelogs.
20100808 17:49:17< Ivanovic> okay, everyone ready now?
20100808 17:49:33< zookeeper> yeah, and i'm going afk too, so if i broke something...well, hopefully i didn't ;)
20100808 17:50:42< Crab_> fendrin: hehe, LoW 14 on normal: the orc ai prefer to attack Kalenz, not humans :)
20100808 17:50:59< Crab_> fendrin: so, humans are very happy but elves are in trouble :)
20100808 17:51:47< Crab_> (the scenario is still playable, but required a different strategy)
20100808 17:53:16< Ivanovic> okay, releasing now
20100808 17:53:22< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45386 /branches/1.8/ (changelog configure.ac players_changelog src/wesconfig.h): bump version to 1.8.4
20100808 17:53:54-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.8.4, using r45386 | 135 bugs, 286 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100808 17:55:25< CIA-87> crab * r45387 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/maps/14_Human_Alliance.map: add a second keep to human castle in LoW 14
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20100808 17:58:26< fendrin> Crab_: oh, that is not a good thing.
20100808 17:59:18< fendrin> Crab_: could a target with filter for humans for the lower 2 work? or filter for elves.
20100808 17:59:51< Crab_> fendrin: yes, a simple `target` goal would be enough (plus, leader value to 0 and village value to 0)
20100808 18:01:18< Crab_> but it allows to play the map in an interesting way... 
20100808 18:01:26< Crab_> by retreating to human keep and fighting from there
20100808 18:08:20< fendrin> Crab_: Hmmm, it's quite narrow for the elves. I guess you can't win it by another strategy anymore, can you? Do you still have a savegame that does have a reasonable army with it?
20100808 18:08:40< Crab_> well,'reasonable army' is easy to debug-create
20100808 18:10:35< Crab_> with reasonably army, you can win by other strategies, as well
20100808 18:10:45< Crab_> (either by holding at the forest or by killing the trolls fast)
20100808 18:11:31< fendrin> Okay, let's keep it that way. The release is done anyway.
20100808 18:12:51< fendrin> Crab_: Damn, the new terrain in 1.9 makes 1.8 looking quite cheap.
20100808 18:19:57< Ivanovic> Crab_: uhm, you do know that your last commit was a little too late, right?
20100808 18:20:10< Ivanovic> (no, i do *not* want to repackage for a freaking map change...)
20100808 18:20:10< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes, I expect that
20100808 18:20:57< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45388 /tags/1.8.4/: tag 1.8.4, using r45386
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20100808 18:23:16< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45389 /branches/1.8/ (changelog configure.ac players_changelog src/wesconfig.h): post release version bump to 1.8.4+svn
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20100808 18:29:33< Crab_> fendrin: lol, see - ftp://ftp.terraninfo.net/pub/s.png - that's on normal, from a `:cl + advance all starting units to L3.`. took a few saveloads to survive the last turn, but no saveloads before that.
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20100808 18:30:51< fendrin> Crab_: :-)
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20100808 18:47:06< CIA-87> silene * r45390 /trunk/src/Makefile.am: Added rule for generating assembly files.
20100808 18:47:08< CIA-87> silene * r45391 /trunk/src/shared_object.hpp: Fixed t_string delegating to the improper copy constructor, the really slow one.
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20100808 19:16:48< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin, loonycyborg, Rhonda: 1.8.4 is ready
20100808 19:16:59< crimson_penguin> my goodness
20100808 19:17:10-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.8.4, announcing soon | 135 bugs, 286 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100808 19:23:05< CIA-87> silene * r45392 /trunk/src/ (6 files): Fixed header dependencies.
20100808 19:23:07< CIA-87> silene * r45393 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Removed unused header.
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20100808 19:26:17< crimson_penguin> who knows about lua?
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20100808 19:35:30< silene> crimson_penguin: ?
20100808 19:36:03< crimson_penguin> silene: apparently on new MacBook Pros, Wesnoth crashes when it triggers the system to switch graphics cards
20100808 19:36:10< crimson_penguin> but the crash looks like this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/963452/Misc/WesnothCrash.txt
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20100808 19:38:14< Sapient> stop the press
20100808 19:38:34< Ivanovic> Sapient: huh?
20100808 19:38:41< Sapient> Ivanovic: I think there is a bugfix that was not backported yet
20100808 19:38:44< Sapient> let me check
20100808 19:38:59< Ivanovic> Sapient: then backport it now and it will be in 1.8.5...
20100808 19:39:13< Sapient> bah, too late then
20100808 19:39:40< Ivanovic> Sapient: sorry to tell you that i will not redo all the release stuff for one single bugfix that is non critical
20100808 19:39:48< Ivanovic> alone uploading takes roughly an hour
20100808 19:40:04< silene> crimson_penguin: perhaps it is a conflict between the exception handling of lua and wesnoth; if so, the solution would then be to do as in 1.9: compile lua with the same compiler as wesnoth
20100808 19:40:05< Sapient> ok, r45168 needs to be backported to 1.8
20100808 19:40:27< crimson_penguin> ohh, right
20100808 19:40:44< silene> Sapient: it only needs to be backported if the bug is present in 1.8
20100808 19:40:46< crimson_penguin> StandYourGround: so this may be fixed in 1.9 already
20100808 19:41:03< StandYourGround> sry… I am the one who reported that bug…  and I may have given the wrong report file….  I just did the crash again on purpose and got a very different looking report:  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/963452/Misc/WesnothGraphicsCrash.rtf
20100808 19:41:06< StandYourGround> oh okay
20100808 19:41:23< StandYourGround> well, I guess I'll wait for 1.9, or attempt to build from svn?
20100808 19:41:34< Sapient> silene: good point, I didn't check that
20100808 19:41:51< crimson_penguin> I think that that second report isn't really the same thing, and doesn't have much about Wesnoth in it
20100808 19:41:53< Sapient> false alarm maybe
20100808 19:42:45< StandYourGround> well, that is the report I get when I try to launch wesnoth with dynamic switching active, on the condition that wesnoth triggers the switch
20100808 19:43:02< StandYourGround> when wesnoth does not trigger the switch (i.e. another running app already has), no problem occurs
20100808 19:43:18< crimson_penguin> well how did you get the first report?
20100808 19:43:27< StandYourGround> from the crash logs...
20100808 19:43:40< StandYourGround> I may have mistakenly grabbed a report from a crash caused by another issue
20100808 19:43:53< crimson_penguin> oh, I see
20100808 19:44:11< crimson_penguin> well the second report doesn't give much info
20100808 19:44:26< StandYourGround> I occasionally get a Wesnoth crash when I give a quit command while a dialog box is open
20100808 19:44:30< StandYourGround> and that could be the lua one
20100808 19:44:45< Sapient> Ivanovic: after further examination, it did not need to be backported. sorry ^_^;
20100808 19:44:52< Ivanovic> :)
20100808 19:46:02< silene> StandYourGround, crimson_penguin: then it's the one what i was pointing out; people have been experiencing it on windows by compiling wesnoth with gcc (but not msvc) and they don't experience it anymore in 1.9
20100808 19:46:30< StandYourGround> the force quit logs do not seem to be saved, but only sent as reports to Apple, and that second log was copied from the report text
20100808 19:46:49< crimson_penguin> yeah, makes sense; the question now is just whether the lua bug is what's causing the graphics card bug - hopefully it is
20100808 19:47:10< StandYourGround> well if you have a test binary I can run, just shoot it to me
20100808 19:47:35< silene> crimson_penguin: no, i very much doubt it
20100808 19:48:21< crimson_penguin> hmm
20100808 19:48:45< crimson_penguin> silene: now, I'm about to make 1.8.4, should I try to compile lua into it?
20100808 19:50:23< Elvish_Pillage2> boucman, silene: there seems to be another bug related to the animation lag we discussed the other day. http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=448020#p448020
20100808 19:50:36< silene> crimson_penguin: you can always try (there is no real downside, except that it is more work for you)
20100808 19:50:42< Elvish_Pillage2> basically, the unit with laggy animations also sometimes recreates itself on the original location after you move it.
20100808 19:50:53< crimson_penguin> hmm
20100808 19:50:55< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: since you most likely got to ship the lib otherwise anyway (or does OSX come by default with lua stuff) i'd try it
20100808 19:51:18< Elvish_Pillage2> this could also be related to the moving-during-unit-animations bug that AI0867 partially fixed a while back.
20100808 19:51:21< crimson_penguin> yeah, I've got it statically built currently
20100808 19:54:04< silene> crimson_penguin: then just force it to be built with a c++ compiler instead of a c compiler; you will also have to remove the "extern "C" {}" around the includes at the beginning of src/scripting/lua.cpp and src/ai/lua/core.cpp
20100808 19:54:58< crimson_penguin> I mean I have a .a that I link in, but I'm just gonna get trunk now, and get lua source from there
20100808 19:55:35< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: hmm... i would rather imagine a bug in your code, that's just too strange a behavior
20100808 19:56:35< fendrin> Crab_: What did you plan for redoing the map of the North elves?
20100808 19:57:47< Elvish_Pillage2> silene: I'm highly skeptical that it's a bug in my code, since EoHS has no moveto events, and the effect happens because of a move right after a turn begins.
20100808 19:58:08< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: 1.8.4 windows installer is uploaded.
20100808 19:58:17< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: cool
20100808 19:58:37< silene> Elvish_Pillage2: can you post a savegame that i can use to reproduce it?
20100808 19:59:01< Elvish_Pillage2> I haven't seen it personally; I'll ask someone who has
20100808 19:59:16< CIA-87> alink * r45394 /trunk/src/game.cpp: 
20100808 19:59:16< CIA-87> Temporary revert r45160 and only use the hardcoded application icon
20100808 19:59:16< CIA-87> (SDL_WM_SetIcon weirdly segfault)
20100808 20:01:10< Crab_> fendrin: firstly, more varied terrain
20100808 20:01:39< fendrin> Crab_: Do you want to change the layout completely? Meaning a complete new setup?
20100808 20:03:27< Crab_> the layout is fine, but the map seems too big for me
20100808 20:04:08< Crab_> I want a map where dwarven and elven units mix well together
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20100808 20:15:18< fendrin> hi kitty_
20100808 20:15:28< kitty_> hi fendrin 
20100808 20:17:22< fendrin> kitty_: I have resigned as maintainer of UtBS.
20100808 20:17:40< kitty_> fendrin: oh, should I ask why? and who is it now?
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20100808 20:18:59< fendrin> kitty_: Conflicts with my co maintainers Espreon and shadowmaster. Espreon is now in charge.
20100808 20:19:37< kitty_> fendrin: that'S a pity - do you have a new project/campaign you are working on?
20100808 20:21:35< fendrin> kitty_: Well, I can now focus on fixing/enhancing the Legend of Wesmere. And I am also still maintaining Delfador's Memoirs. There is some work done on a Campaign featuring the Drakes in team with esr. But that is on hold for some time now.
20100808 20:22:03< kitty_> sounds like you won't get bored :)
20100808 20:23:12< fendrin> Yes, that is true.
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20100808 20:29:22< thespaceinvader> hey kitty_ 
20100808 20:29:37< kitty_> hi thespaceinvader 
20100808 20:29:48< thespaceinvader> hows thigns?
20100808 20:30:20< kitty_> too less time for wesnoth :P but generally good - yourself?
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20100808 20:33:54< CIA-87> alink * r45395 /trunk/src/multiplayer_wait.hpp: Fix an include path
20100808 20:34:02< CIA-87> alink * r45396 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): 
20100808 20:34:02< CIA-87> Safer window-icon handling.
20100808 20:34:02< CIA-87> Kill set_wm_icon function, since SDL_WM_SetIcon can be called safely only at one
20100808 20:34:02< CIA-87> place. Clearly hardcode the image's url instead of pretending that we use
20100808 20:34:02< CIA-87> game_config. Rename the image to "game-icon.png" (since you are forced to use
20100808 20:34:03< CIA-87> it).
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20100808 20:37:49< thespaceinvader> kitty_: pretty good, australia was great, but now house hunting and job hunting blah
20100808 20:41:44< kitty_> good luck! :)
20100808 20:44:06< kitty_> thespaceinvader: a quick suggestion on the burner's fire, more of a glow in the backside of his throat: http://imagebin.org/108640
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20100808 20:45:40< thespaceinvader> kitty_: that could work.  It was what I was leaning towards doing next time
20100808 20:46:46< kitty_> making the teeth backlit is pretty important. and only some soft fumes from the nostrils. darkening him a tad overally will also make it stand out more
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20100808 20:49:48< kitty_> thespaceinvader: about your answer on my drake crit - what's the old college trick? and the red skirt, i know its common to all drakes, but making the single pic better should be more important than uniformity... let it simply be a bit bleched out ;)
20100808 20:50:18< thespaceinvader> did i say trick?
20100808 20:50:21< thespaceinvader> I meant to sday try
20100808 20:50:36< kitty_> oh, yeah try - but what'S the college try?
20100808 20:50:41< thespaceinvader> ah
20100808 20:50:48< thespaceinvader> it's a phrase, just means, give it a try
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20100808 20:51:04< thespaceinvader> thoguh I think it tends towards last attempts for whatever reason
20100808 20:51:08< kitty_> ha, learned something new again - thanks!
20100808 20:51:35< thespaceinvader> what I'll do with the burner, I think, is maybe do a darker brown or blue fabric with a red border, a bit bleached from what it is now
20100808 20:51:43< thespaceinvader> and retry the flames
20100808 20:51:52< kitty_> sounds fine :)
20100808 20:53:04< kitty_> and dare painting them - everyone who has ever opened gimp or phosho  will recognize the effect too easily.... 
20100808 20:54:22< CIA-87> thespaceinvader * r45397 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Update to new Drake Fighter portrait. Update changelogs, portrait credits.
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20100808 20:54:59< thespaceinvader> kitty_: yeah, the effect is a homebrew with gradients and warps, but it's still a computer effect.  I just need to work out how to draw the fire properly...
20100808 20:55:29< shadowmaster> kitty_: Espreon is in charge, but unfortunately his laptop is currently comatose
20100808 20:55:37< shadowmaster> (to be more specific, the screen might be fried)
20100808 20:56:00< kitty_> shadowmaster: thanks! did the two of you continie the cultural outline?
20100808 20:56:22< shadowmaster> uhh. no. He's in charge of that.
20100808 20:56:32< shadowmaster> I'm not really in charge despite what fendrin says.
20100808 20:56:51< kitty_> shadowmaster: do you have any idea what timeframe we are speaking here?
20100808 20:57:07< shadowmaster> uh, real life timeframe? no
20100808 20:57:48< kitty_> thespaceinvader I don't have real advise - i generally try to get a close ref (perhaps a fire-breather?) and then use moderately soft brushes on full opacity on a layer on top of the lines. and then some lower opacity soft brushes for additional fx like smoke...
20100808 20:58:02< thespaceinvader> yeah
20100808 20:59:56< kitty_> shadowmaster: hmm, that's a pity. then I'll probably take on another campaign. atm i have some spare time in between and just waiting till you guys get the background together isn't purposeful... damn, I would have really felt fancy doing it :(
20100808 21:00:45< shadowmaster> it's also a pity that some people can't take criticism.
20100808 21:01:00< shadowmaster> in other news, I'm semi-afk now
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20100808 21:22:48< kitty_> I'm just thinking about taking care of AoI's portraits as a quick interim project - who is the current maintainer?
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20100808 21:32:07< zookeeper> kitty_, yes
20100808 21:32:10< zookeeper> err...
20100808 21:32:13< zookeeper> i meant to say "esr"
20100808 21:32:26< kitty_> haha, thanks!
20100808 21:32:28< zookeeper> dunno how that turned into "yes"
20100808 21:32:42< kitty_> it has at least one letter in common...
20100808 21:36:13< zookeeper> or maybe two
20100808 21:37:37< kitty_> maybe...
20100808 21:42:06< CIA-87> fendrin * r45398 /trunk/data/tools/emacs_mode/wesnoth-wml-data.el: Updated the database of the wesnoth emacs mode.
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20100808 21:51:12< CIA-87> fendrin * r45399 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (19 files in 3 dirs): 
20100808 21:51:13< CIA-87> LoW:
20100808 21:51:13< CIA-87> Map updates (new terrain tiles set in use).
20100808 21:51:13< CIA-87> Orcs got their own flags.
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20100808 21:57:06< CIA-87> fendrin * r45400 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (scenarios/14_Human_Alliance.cfg utils/_main.cfg): LoW: Bug fixes. Mostly missing macros and wrong names in macro calls.
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20100808 22:03:52< CIA-87> silene * r45401 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
20100808 22:03:53< CIA-87> Avoided conversion of attribute values to translatable strings. Optimized string escaping.
20100808 22:03:53< CIA-87> Fixed strange indentation of embedded textdomain changes.
20100808 22:03:53< CIA-87> Reduced amount of useless quotes and spaces.
20100808 22:03:53< CIA-87> This patch brings the time needed for outputting the cache for the test scenario from 17% of the total time down to negligible.
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20100808 22:08:17< fendrin> zookeeper: Do you know about the elf land music track?
20100808 22:08:29< fendrin> It seems not to be commited.
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20100808 22:16:10< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: uploading Mac 1.8.4 (with lua++)
20100808 22:16:38< Ivanovic> cool!
20100808 22:16:47< Ivanovic> any ETA on the upload?
20100808 22:17:49< crimson_penguin> 4 hours
20100808 22:17:55 * crimson_penguin needs better internet
20100808 22:18:38< silene> crimson_penguin: you did remove the lines in the two files i told you, right? (just to be sure it is really lua++)
20100808 22:19:46< crimson_penguin> the other file didn't appear to exist in 1.8.4, but I removed them in scripting/
20100808 22:20:06< crimson_penguin> I'm pretty sure there would be a linker error if I hadn't
20100808 22:20:20< crimson_penguin> I also marked all the files as C++
20100808 22:20:23< shadowm_laptop> dmesg
20100808 22:20:30< shadowm_laptop> ugh
20100808 22:21:36< silene> crimson_penguin: there would have been a linker error, but only if you didn't have an old library around, that's why i wanted to make sure
20100808 22:21:59< crimson_penguin> that's true - I did remove the library too though :)
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20100808 23:05:36< CIA-87> silene * r45402 /trunk/src/ (builder.cpp builder.hpp): 
20100808 23:05:37< CIA-87> Performed all the substitution of rotation tokens (@R0-5) in one single pass.
20100808 23:05:37< CIA-87> This patch speeds up the creation of terrain rules by 40%.
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20100808 23:07:26< shadowmaster> wow, I need to try that later.
20100808 23:09:59< El_Caballero> wow, excelent improvement :)
20100808 23:10:40< El_Caballero> Congratulations :)
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 09 00:00:06 2010