--- Log opened Mon Aug 09 00:00:06 2010
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20100809 01:37:28< CIA-87> fendrin * r45403 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Commited "Silvan Sanctuary" a new elven themed piece of music for the soundtrack.
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20100809 02:06:44< CIA-87> alink * r45404 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/time.cfg: fix incomplete macro rename
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20100809 02:19:18< CIA-87> fendrin * r45405 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/ (12 files): 
20100809 02:19:18< CIA-87> LoW updates.
20100809 02:19:18< CIA-87> Mostly new music playlists.
20100809 02:19:18< CIA-87> Some start positions corrected.
20100809 02:19:18< CIA-87> Recruit lists updated.
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20100809 03:06:18< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: it's up
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20100809 04:09:14< CIA-87> upthorn * r45406 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/wesnoth.sln: Marked liblua as a dependency for wesnoth project.
20100809 04:09:37< alink> I am not familiar with this platform but it seems that some people work on a port for Nokia N900 : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41040
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20100809 04:10:42< alink> even if they seems to have few problems
20100809 04:13:16< alink> Ivanovic: ^maybe interest you (they mention the pandora port)
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20100809 05:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.8.4, announcing soon | 136 bugs, 286 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100809 06:05:52< CIA-87> alink * r45407 /trunk/src/minimap.cpp: small readability improvements
20100809 06:05:59< CIA-87> alink * r45408 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): 
20100809 06:05:59< CIA-87> Rename image::TYPE to something less misleading.
20100809 06:05:59< CIA-87> SCALED_TO_HEX is now just that, use TOD_COLORED to get ToD coloring.
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20100809 06:35:44< rusty> noy: hi!
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20100809 07:12:38< Rhonda> Ivanovic: Too late, I doubt that I'll be able to get it into squeeze. Any important changes?
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20100809 07:41:20< shadowmaster> ._.
20100809 07:41:34< shadowmaster> kubuntu firefox installer?
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20100809 08:12:25< timotei> morning
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20100809 08:39:54< rusty> timotei: morning...
20100809 08:40:02< CIA-87> silene * r45409 /trunk/src/ (builder.cpp builder.hpp): Merged precedence into building rules, so as to avoid a useless copy/destruction at insertion time.
20100809 08:40:03< timotei> morning rusty 
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20100809 09:30:23< shadowmaster> okay, it's official. I'm addicted to Debian.
20100809 09:30:54< shadowmaster> wrong channel
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20100809 09:35:09< Rhonda> hah
20100809 09:35:30< joo> http://i38.tinypic.com/n1v1ck.jpg
20100809 09:36:11< Ivanovic> Rhonda: hmm, just a neat amount of bug fixes
20100809 09:36:33< Rhonda> Then maybe I can convince them.
20100809 09:37:04< Rhonda> But it might require effort, which I can't motivate myself to bring up due to several things that happened
20100809 09:37:05< Ivanovic> though i *think* there was a security relevant fix when it comes to uploading stuff to the addon server (security relevant as in "the filter for filenames was working case sensitive which resulted in some users uploading files they wanted to block due to the file ending being upper case"
20100809 09:37:23< shadowmaster>    * Fixed bug #16283: 1.9 syntax creeped into 1.8.x causing segfaults
20100809 09:37:25< shadowmaster> ew
20100809 09:37:40< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: oh, yes, that's mine
20100809 09:38:12< shadowmaster> although I'd still want to enforce that at the server side. If I only figured what's the best way to add more code to campaignd.
20100809 09:38:29< shadowmaster> without making it fall apart.
20100809 09:39:18< Ivanovic> moin, btw
20100809 09:39:32< shadowmaster> hah.
20100809 09:40:03 * shadowmaster goes to try to get 2 hours of sleep again.
20100809 09:47:14< Ivanovic> alink: that forum post has basically nothing for me since all their problems are specific for their (really strange (i used it for some university project group on the n810!)) build environment
20100809 09:47:34< Ivanovic> alink: for the pandora i just crosscompile using an openembedded crosscompiler and it works *really* lovely
20100809 09:56:28< silene> shadowmaster: that's not a bugfix, it was purely svn: it's a patch that wasn't properly backported
20100809 10:02:45< timotei> wow
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20100809 10:16:37< timotei> wow, wesnoth starts REALLY fast
20100809 10:16:41< timotei> < 10 seconds
20100809 10:16:53< timotei> actually < 5
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20100809 10:27:34< CIA-87> zookeeper * r45410 /trunk/data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/scenarios/04_Beginning_of_the_Revenge.cfg: Made Malin not taunt an orc if it fell through the ice.
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20100809 11:03:16< CIA-87> silene * r45411 /trunk/src/builder.cpp: Avoided creation of temporary animations.
20100809 11:17:05< fendrin> timotei: But pressing F5 is crashing in trunk.
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20100809 11:41:56< timotei> fendrin: hi
20100809 11:42:00< timotei> fendrin: pressing F5 where?
20100809 11:42:30< fendrin> timotei: Wesnoth's main menu. That comment is related to the fast loading time.
20100809 11:42:36< timotei> oh
20100809 11:42:48< timotei> fendrin: didn't know you can press F5 
20100809 11:42:57< timotei> fendrin: for me it doesn't crash
20100809 11:43:23< Ivanovic> silene: wow, startup and campaign start times are really getting lovely!
20100809 11:44:51< silene> fendrin: it doesn't crash for me either (and i even ran it under valgrind just to be sure); you should post a backtrace
20100809 11:46:09< fendrin> silene: Wait. Let me fetch latest trunk compile and see if it still crashes.
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20100809 11:49:26< Upthorn> f5 doesn't crash for me either, and I'm on windows
20100809 11:50:21< Upthorn> however pressing "up" or "down" does.
20100809 11:51:36< timotei> Upthorn: me too
20100809 11:55:08< CIA-87> silene * r45412 /trunk/src/serialization/ (parser.cpp tokenizer.cpp tokenizer.hpp): Changed meaning of spaces in WML. They are no longer significant, unless they are quoted or between two words.
20100809 11:55:12< timotei> silene: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/wREJLtDV
20100809 11:55:20< timotei> silene: for the up/down bug
20100809 11:55:45< silene> timotei: the up/down keys? or somethign else?
20100809 11:56:02< timotei> silene: well, pressing up or down in titlescreen gets me that backtrace
20100809 11:56:25< silene> timotei: you mean the keyboard?
20100809 11:56:31< timotei> silene: yes
20100809 11:56:32< Upthorn> up/down keys in main menu crash on windows.
20100809 11:57:25< fendrin> silene: All right. The recompile fixed it.
20100809 11:57:35< Upthorn> I think this has actually been true for the entire coding period but I assumed that it somehow had to do with my debug libraries and forgot to test on a release build
20100809 11:57:57< Upthorn> until just now when fendrin said about f5
20100809 12:00:34< silene> this crash doesn't make sense (and i can't reproduce it); titlescreen.cpp:519 is just a subtraction and even the lines before and after are not really crash-prone
20100809 12:01:22< Upthorn> It must be windows-only
20100809 12:02:13< timotei> silene: it's 579
20100809 12:02:20< timotei> buttons[keyboard_button].set_active(false);
20100809 12:02:34< silene> oh!
20100809 12:03:12< Upthorn> that makes much more sense.
20100809 12:03:20< Upthorn> but still doesn't explain it
20100809 12:03:27< timotei> hmm, buttons are ok
20100809 12:03:32< timotei> maybe the index of keyboard_button
20100809 12:03:38< timotei> but I don't see anything
20100809 12:03:59< silene> indeed, valgrind complains too about 579 and 586
20100809 12:04:25< timotei> what's that nbuttons?
20100809 12:05:02< silene> it's the number of translatable strings on the titlescreen
20100809 12:05:14< timotei> may it be cause : static const size_t nbuttons?
20100809 12:05:14< silene> (hopefully the number of buttons too)
20100809 12:05:16< timotei> instead of int?
20100809 12:05:19< timotei> static const size_t nbuttons = sizeof(button_labels)/sizeof(*button_labels);
20100809 12:05:30< silene> no
20100809 12:06:06< silene> size_t keyboard_button = nbuttons;
20100809 12:06:27< Upthorn> size_t is just typedefed to unsigned int
20100809 12:06:36< timotei> oh
20100809 12:07:41< timotei> but what. must it be keyboard_button -1?
20100809 12:07:47< Upthorn> unfortunately when I switched to debug wesnoth decided it needed a full recompile
20100809 12:08:11< timotei> I mean, at start, the number is: nbuttons, which is .. out-of-index
20100809 12:08:19< timotei> outofrange*
20100809 12:08:23< silene> timotei: yes, or 0
20100809 12:08:36< timotei> well, and the vector it's from: 0 to nbutttons-1
20100809 12:08:40< timotei> isn't it?
20100809 12:09:12< Upthorn> timotei: I am fairly certain that if this were the problem it would crash in linux as well
20100809 12:09:21< silene> timotei: yes, the titlescreen assumes that if button == nbuttons, then no button is selected, but it doesn't test for this special value
20100809 12:09:25< timotei> but isn't logicall what I just said?
20100809 12:09:36< timotei> Upthorn: maybe on linux ... something is wrong
20100809 12:09:58< silene> Upthorn: it does somehow "crash" on linux, since valgrind complains
20100809 12:10:23< Upthorn> I would expect a segfault, though
20100809 12:10:45< timotei> well, the thing is, it needs a check there, as silene said
20100809 12:11:14< silene> Upthorn: it will only segfault if it hits some memory not owned by the game
20100809 12:11:33< Upthorn> timotei: and yes, your explanation seems reasonable
20100809 12:11:59< Upthorn> I am just surprised that it doesn't segfault in linux if that is the case
20100809 12:12:13< timotei> silene: what if you just open the game, and press the key
20100809 12:12:17< timotei> without doing anything
20100809 12:12:23< timotei> or try: F5 2-3 times, and then
20100809 12:12:24< timotei> Up/Down
20100809 12:14:24< fendrin> Crab_: I have disabled recruiting of scouts until scenario4 and shamans until 5.
20100809 12:16:44< Crab_> ok - that is, no shamans until Cleodil is rescued ?
20100809 12:17:31< Crab_> would Galtrid in scenario 3 be able to recruit shamans ?
20100809 12:17:50< Crab_> if no, then the start scenario 3 would become a lot funnier (remember those assasins :) )
20100809 12:17:57< Crab_> s/start/start of
20100809 12:22:31< silene> hmm... that whole titlescreen code is wrong; buttons are duplicated for the tip of day, hence some are left dangling
20100809 12:22:55< fendrin> Crab_: Right, I can code shamans being recruitable with the rescue of cleodil.
20100809 12:23:32< Crab_> ok. what about Velon's shamans - should he have any ?
20100809 12:23:35< fendrin> Crab_: Later when recruit lists per leader are implemented I plan to let only Cleodil being able to recruit them.
20100809 12:23:44< Ivanovic> is there a neat way for doxygen comments if i want to create specific comments for a (global) variable like this one? map<int, int>
20100809 12:23:49< Crab_> fendrin:  yes, a good idea
20100809 12:23:52< Ivanovic> (as in: what the two int are meant for)
20100809 12:24:04< silene> Ivanovic: no
20100809 12:24:07< Ivanovic> :(
20100809 12:24:18< silene> just document it in plain text in your doxygen comment
20100809 12:24:56< Crab_> Ivanovic: or typedef both ints and use the typedefs in the map instead of ints
20100809 12:25:11< fendrin> Crab_: I have also denied Velon the recruiting of assassins. Since his forces join Kalenz it's more or less ugly since the player will try to save them at all costs.
20100809 12:25:13< Ivanovic> Crab_: nah, this is too ill
20100809 12:25:33< Crab_> fendrin: Velon and assassins ? are you sure :) ?
20100809 12:25:56< fendrin> Crab_: hmmm, right :-)
20100809 12:26:31< Crab_> fendrin: ok. this, in general, makes the campaign more difficult, and puts greater emphasis on the amount of villages
20100809 12:26:52< fendrin> Crab_: I have played till scenario 4 now on medium. It seems doable.
20100809 12:27:00< Crab_> ok
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20100809 12:27:39< fendrin> Crab_: At least that will make Cleodil a high value new unit and not just another shyde the player already owns a bunch of.
20100809 12:27:42< Crab_> fendrin: gives more incentive to go towards east orc in scenario 1, since he's not such a big assassin-lover in comparison to the south orc.
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20100809 12:33:37< Upthorn> fendrin: the other way to do that is to modify Cleodil to make her unique and valuable.
20100809 12:34:09< fendrin> Upthorn: Right, I would love to modify her in some way. Do you have any suggestions?
20100809 12:34:59< Upthorn> I'm not even sure which campaign you are talking about. I just wanted to make sure you consider the "make the campaign easier" way as well
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20100809 12:37:19< fendrin> Upthorn: I am talking about "The Legend of Wesmere". 
20100809 12:38:08< Upthorn> I have not played that one yet. I only played the ones marked as easy.
20100809 12:38:30< Upthorn> Heir to the Throne, and A Tale of Two Brothers are the ones I recall by name.
20100809 12:43:18< CIA-87> silene * r45413 /trunk/src/titlescreen.cpp: 
20100809 12:43:18< CIA-87> Fixed segfault when using up and down keys.
20100809 12:43:18< CIA-87> Fixed keys not making it possible to go to the tip buttons.
20100809 12:43:18< CIA-87> Fixed useless and missing translatable strings.
20100809 12:44:08< Upthorn> silene: awesome. my debug compile to help track the problem down hasn't even finished yet
20100809 12:44:10< fendrin> Upthorn: An orcish incursion is also an easy campaign. It features elves and can be played to get known to them before playing LoW.
20100809 12:52:02< timotei> umm, I'm the only one here who just played the tutorial?:-S
20100809 12:52:34< timotei> shame on me
20100809 12:52:43< Crab_> timotei: something is wrong in the tutorial ?
20100809 12:52:50< Crab_> timotei: or you've finally got the time to play it ?
20100809 12:53:02< timotei> Crab_: I've played that first time I've touched wesnoth
20100809 12:53:04< Ivanovic> Crab_: no, timotei has just *only* played the tutorial, no other campaigns or the likes
20100809 12:53:29< timotei> at the others I just enjoyed looking at the maps:D
20100809 12:54:05< Unnheulu> timotei, play TSG :D
20100809 12:54:08< Unnheulu> Best campaign eva
20100809 12:57:41< timotei> Unnheulu: define: TSG
20100809 12:58:19< Crab_> shikadibot: TSG ?
20100809 12:58:19< shikadibot> TSG: The South Guard
20100809 13:00:42< timotei> oh, thanks shikadibot 
20100809 13:00:57< timotei> Unnheulu: I'll play when I'll have time
20100809 13:02:35< Crab_> timotei: TSG was the first wesnoth campaign I've played :)
20100809 13:02:49< timotei> :)
20100809 13:03:06< timotei> fendrin: ok, displaying macro definition works now:D
20100809 13:03:13< timotei> fendrin: now to ... refactor the whole thing
20100809 13:03:26< fendrin> timotei: What are you refactoring?
20100809 13:03:41< timotei> Crab_: btw, thanks a LOT for suggesting me xtext. It's a great tool, and it helps me a lot
20100809 13:03:47< timotei> fendrin: the skeleton for displaying macro definition
20100809 13:03:55< timotei> fendrin: maybe... we want to display other things too?
20100809 13:04:00< Crab_> timotei: well, it's always easier to reuse existing code, especially if it works ;)
20100809 13:04:15< timotei> fendrin: macro definition is happening when pressing F2 (javadoc) on a macro name
20100809 13:05:03< timotei> fendrin: I'm usually working like this: try some ways of doing a job (make them utterly simple and 'chaosed'). if they work, write them clean
20100809 13:05:13< timotei> fendrin: in case it doesn't work, to throw them away:P
20100809 13:05:37< fendrin> :-)
20100809 13:07:57< timotei> fendrin: btw, I have one more officialy week, till 16 August. is there anything besides Validation that needs to be done and it isn't?
20100809 13:08:36< fendrin> timotei: Some teaks to the grammar, I guess that is what you mean by validation.
20100809 13:08:56< fendrin> timotei: Displaying of the mainline content like we talked.
20100809 13:11:16< timotei> fendrin: yes, grammar redoing. I didn't forget that
20100809 13:11:30< timotei> fendrin: by validation I mean, checking the wml consistency: non-exissting scenarios, macros
20100809 13:11:38< timotei> fendrin: invalid map locations:P
20100809 13:11:38< fendrin> I see.
20100809 13:11:59< fendrin> not defined but accessed variables.
20100809 13:12:19< timotei> fendrin: oh right. I need to handle variables
20100809 13:22:20< Crab_> Upthorn: can you PM  your MP test scenario to me (Crab on wesnoth's forums) ? ( not now, can be done later, in 1-2 days. )
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20100809 13:48:05< Upthorn> Crab_: the one that works in 1.8.4, right?
20100809 13:49:07< Crab_> Upthorn: no, for trunk
20100809 13:49:50< Crab_> Upthorn: I want a scenario where MP persistence could be seen in action
20100809 13:50:32< Crab_> and you're worked on trunk, so 1.8.4 won't help
20100809 13:52:28< Upthorn> oh, of course. 1.8.4 doesn't include any of the 1.9.0 changes
20100809 13:53:29< Upthorn> for some reason I got confused and thought it would
20100809 13:53:52< Crab_> well, persistence would be one of the new great things for 1.9 line :)
20100809 13:58:51< CIA-87> silene * r45414 /branches/1.8/src/titlescreen.cpp: 
20100809 13:58:51< CIA-87> Fixed segfault when using up and down keys.
20100809 13:58:51< CIA-87> Fixed keys not making it possible to go to the tip buttons.
20100809 13:58:51< CIA-87> Fixed useless and missing translatable strings.
20100809 13:58:51< CIA-87> Backported from trunk r45413.
20100809 14:06:32< Upthorn> by the way, I'm getting an error now when I try to host a networked game or join a server on my lan
20100809 14:07:00< Upthorn> "invalid wml received: did not find quotes around attribute"
20100809 14:07:00< shadowmaster> silene: if it never affected a released version then it doesn't make much sense to mention it in the changelog IMHO
20100809 14:07:14< silene> shadowmaster: i agree
20100809 14:07:44< Upthorn> shadowmaster: what issue?
20100809 14:07:44< silene> Upthorn: i will fix it
20100809 14:07:57< Upthorn> silene: okay, so that is not something I did then.
20100809 14:08:42< shadowmaster> Upthorn: something that popped up in the 1.8 changelog
20100809 14:08:47< shadowmaster> 03:37:23 <shadowmaster>    * Fixed bug #16283: 1.9 syntax creeped into 1.8.x causing segfaults
20100809 14:09:11< Upthorn> shadowmaster: oh, ok.
20100809 14:09:46< Upthorn> when you said that the most recent commit was silene's "fixed segfault when using up and down keys", which I believe was in 1.8.* releases
20100809 14:09:57< shadowmaster> um, since my x key is rather stuck I am having problems writing my root password :/
20100809 14:10:21< Upthorn> time to change your root password
20100809 14:10:58< shadowmaster> I'd rather clean the keyboard
20100809 14:12:01< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: it is in the changelog because there was a bug report about this (and silene tends to not add *any* changelog entries...)
20100809 14:12:30< Upthorn> shadowmaster: you're overengineering. changing your password and never using the x key again is a more than adequate solution.
20100809 14:13:01< shadowmaster> Upthorn: I use x in many different passwords :P
20100809 14:13:13< shadowmaster> and there are many other legitimate uses for the x, so...
20100809 14:13:16< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: easier than cleaning: get a new keyboard!
20100809 14:13:18< Ivanovic> ;)
20100809 14:13:26< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: right, how do I replace it?
20100809 14:13:29< shadowmaster> this is a lpatop
20100809 14:13:33< shadowmaster> laptop
20100809 14:13:39< Upthorn> USB!
20100809 14:13:41< Ivanovic> ah, those are more fun, but often possible, too
20100809 14:13:45< Smar> doesn’t keyboards cost like 500 euros...
20100809 14:13:54< shadowmaster> I already have problems carrying the power supply :(
20100809 14:14:05< shadowmaster> in any case this thing is soon going to tech support for other problems
20100809 14:15:35< shadowmaster> also considering how often I need to do sudo vim /etc/X11/xorg.conf or less /var/log/Xorg.0.log from a text terminal...
20100809 14:16:28< Rhonda> Sirp, around?
20100809 14:20:19< Upthorn> Crab_: I have sent the PM you requested.
20100809 14:20:31< Crab_> thanks
20100809 14:22:27< Crab_> I want to clean it up a bit, test, and then upload as an addon...
20100809 14:24:01< Upthorn> If I could test MP right now, I might be ready to commit some changes which would support the better version
20100809 14:24:23< Crab_> Upthorn: what prevents you from testing MP right now ?
20100809 14:24:42< Upthorn> "invalid wml received: did not find quotes around attribute"
20100809 14:24:50< Upthorn> silene says he is fixing it now
20100809 14:25:16< Upthorn> or actually he said he will fix it. I was assuming the "now".
20100809 14:26:21< Crab_> ok
20100809 14:27:06< Upthorn> though I'm actually about to go to sleep, so silene does not need to rush on my account.
20100809 14:28:13< Crab_> even better ;)
20100809 14:28:23< Crab_> I'll test the scenario in a day or two.
20100809 14:29:28< Upthorn> by then I will probably have committed the necessary code to make the updated one work, so you'll have to test that one instead.
20100809 14:29:51< Crab_> that's ok.
20100809 14:30:07< Ivanovic> Rhonda: sirp is most likely not around (timezone differences...)
20100809 14:31:19< shadowmaster> some people skip sleep though
20100809 14:31:28< Upthorn> It worked locally yesterday, I just want to make sure that it still does after tightening things up (bounds checking and discarding the global_variable replay event for the player that inserted it)
20100809 14:32:41< timotei> shadowmaster: they shouldn't
20100809 14:33:35< CIA-87> silene * r45415 /trunk/src/server/simple_wml.cpp: Fixed server chocking on unquoted attributes.
20100809 14:34:38< Crab_> Upthorn: after that (providing it works ok), will there be things to do for 'mp persistence support', or you'll be satisfied with its status ?
20100809 14:35:27< Upthorn> Crab_: there will still be implementing side=global and/or side=host.
20100809 14:35:50< Upthorn> or removing that feature from the wiki documentation
20100809 14:36:01< Upthorn> preferably implementing.
20100809 14:37:39< Crab_> that should be easy to implement (for example, some changes to server to announce host changes to the replay, not just to new hosts, and replacing the bool is_host_ by a side_number of current host)
20100809 14:39:01< Crab_> another thing to do would be basic implementation of transaction blocks for groups of get/set/clear calls for the same namespace\side
20100809 14:39:33< joo> oh, clear.. that's a good idea
20100809 14:39:54< Crab_> for example, if you want to read 15 variables from the same namespace of same player and put them inside a 'transaction block', then it could be made to read the file once (at start) and write it once (at end), not do 15 reads/writes.
20100809 14:40:02< Upthorn> oh yes, and transactions.
20100809 14:40:19< Crab_> getting at least this simple case first
20100809 14:41:14< Rhonda> Ivanovic: It's not *that* early anymore over there.
20100809 14:41:22< Rhonda> Ivanovic: Or is he west coast?
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20100809 14:43:32< Upthorn> my understanding of transactions was that they should be automatically determined, such that they would begin at the start of a turn, then end the next time the network synced and a new one would start.
20100809 14:44:54< Upthorn> so that if someone starts a turn, triggers three variables to be set, does an attack, triggers five more to be set, and then has his connection lost
20100809 14:45:01< Crab_> Upthorn: I think that they should be explicit, only where we want to ensure that some persistence operations happen on all sides or on none at all.
20100809 14:45:13< Crab_> Upthorn: example is 'gold transfer from side 1 to side 2'
20100809 14:45:24< Upthorn> all other players would get the first three, but not the second 5
20100809 14:45:52< Crab_> Upthorn: and also note the 'speedup' part - where we want to write the file only after a group of operations, not after each of them
20100809 14:45:54< Upthorn> but making them explicit should be easier to manage.
20100809 14:46:04< Crab_> yes
20100809 14:46:23< silene> Upthorn: the automated transactions as you describe them already work; it's the replay mechanism; what won't work is _getting_ variables from a remote client; you will have a hard time automatizing it
20100809 14:47:50< Upthorn> silene: my sense was that transactions were only really relevant for what would be stored permanently -- set and clear would worry, get would not.
20100809 14:48:29< silene> Upthorn: then you don't need them; as i said, the replay mechanism will already delay the setters until the next network synchronization
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20100809 14:49:08< Upthorn> I'm going to pretend that I would have realized that eventually.
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20100809 14:50:15< Upthorn> but Crab_'s idea still sounds like a good feature.
20100809 14:50:40< Upthorn> the only difference is that now I know it is more work than my idea, instead of less. :)
20100809 14:50:47< Crab_> silene: the issue is when we have two set_ operations and want to complete two set operations or none at all
20100809 14:51:22< Crab_> silene: so, for that, we need some way of grouping those set_ ( or clear_ ) operations
20100809 14:51:54< silene> Crab_: the two set operations will necessarily be in the same packet from network synchronization; so either both of them happen, or none of them
20100809 14:52:14< silene> packet is a bit overloaded, i should have said message
20100809 14:52:38< Upthorn> or, I need to code a simple mechanism
20100809 14:53:04< Upthorn> where I add [start_global_transaction] and [end_global_transaction] WML commands
20100809 14:53:39< Upthorn> and if game aborts after [start_global_transaction] happens but before [end_global_transaction] is reached
20100809 14:53:46< Upthorn> do not write the changes.
20100809 14:54:14< silene> Upthorn: what if the game is saved before [end_global_transaction] and reload after?
20100809 14:54:32< silene> after being saved*
20100809 14:55:06< silene> do you intend to write transactions in the savefiles too?
20100809 14:55:30< Upthorn> I suppose that if a transaction is active, I will have to write the current state of the open persistent contexts to the save file.
20100809 14:56:27< Crab_> yes, then, the persistence contexts and the state of the transactions would need to end up in the saves, too. But, lets think if we can work around the issue with other means...
20100809 14:57:09< Crab_> if we just recommend the WML authors 'work with local variables and then, write them to global ones at the same time'
20100809 14:57:25< Crab_> then, the local variables would contain the 'uncommitted state' just fine
20100809 14:57:58< silene> Crab_: either you allow to save in the middle of a transaction, or the setters are necessarily in the same network synchronization and you don't need transactions
20100809 14:58:13< Upthorn> silene: well there is a second purpose to transactions
20100809 14:58:29< Crab_> yes, I'm thinking about the 'you don't need transactions for that' part
20100809 14:58:35< Upthorn> if 8 different variables are being written to the same config file
20100809 14:58:53< silene> Upthorn: that shouldn't be the job of the wml designer
20100809 14:58:56< Upthorn> if they are all in a transaction, I can have wesnoth write the ile only once
20100809 14:59:13< Crab_> Upthorn: can you make that automatic ? say, 'at the end of wml event processing' ?
20100809 14:59:45< silene> why not at game exit? like preferences
20100809 14:59:56< silene> or every 5 minutes, or...
20100809 15:00:21< Upthorn> Crab_: that sounds like what I was going to suggest, except I couldn't decide between that and "in the context's destructor"
20100809 15:00:34< Upthorn> though
20100809 15:00:43< Upthorn> I guess the question is
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20100809 15:01:17< Upthorn> if the game crashes during play, do we want more data to be saved from that time, or more data to be retained from the previous state?
20100809 15:02:12< Upthorn> perhaps once per turn is a good solution. So if the game crashes, nothing that happened since the last autosave will be commited
20100809 15:02:19< Upthorn> but everything that happened before it will.
20100809 15:02:21< silene> Upthorn: there is no reason to have something in the persistent storage which is not in an automated savegame
20100809 15:02:30< silene> Upthorn: right, my point :-)
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20100809 15:03:06< Upthorn> though now I'm thinking, perhaps it could simply be called from the savegame function
20100809 15:03:13< Crab_> Upthorn: think about player playing two games in parallel
20100809 15:03:31< Upthorn> so if they have autosaves off, they won't get inconsistencies...
20100809 15:03:32< Crab_> Upthorn: he plays one, then saves that game and loads another
20100809 15:03:39< Upthorn> Crab_: WHY WOULD THEY DO SUCH A HORRIBLE THING
20100809 15:03:45< Upthorn> :( :( :(
20100809 15:04:13< Crab_> Upthorn: play two campaigns, play one for a few days, play another for a few days, etc - what's so horrible with that :) ?
20100809 15:04:29< alink> fendrin, timotei, silene: for the F5 segfault, it is probable that I introduced it few days ago and fixed it yesterday. And possibly platform/desktop specific, since it was weird behavior of SDL_WM_SetIcon
20100809 15:04:50< Upthorn> OH. I thought you were talking about a person having two wesnoth instances open at once
20100809 15:04:55< Crab_> Upthorn: no :)
20100809 15:04:59< Upthorn> playing the same campaign on both, but using different saves.
20100809 15:05:14< Upthorn> which would be horrible and they deserve to get their persistent data corrupted
20100809 15:06:06< Crab_> Upthorn: so, I think that at least at save/victory/defeat the data needs to be written.
20100809 15:06:17< Upthorn> Crab_: yes.
20100809 15:06:18< timotei> fendrin: around?
20100809 15:06:27< silene> Crab_: at each save time in fact
20100809 15:06:31< Upthorn> I think that it should be written whenever a savegame is made.
20100809 15:06:40< silene> yes
20100809 15:06:54< Upthorn> victory/defeat makes a savegame
20100809 15:07:13< Crab_> Upthorn: not so sure about defeat :)
20100809 15:07:25< Upthorn> oh. good point.
20100809 15:07:38< Crab_> Upthorn: for example, imagine a scenario which becomes easier each time you fail at it
20100809 15:07:39< Upthorn> so every time the player saves and also when they lose.
20100809 15:07:58< Crab_> Upthorn: so, you can play it without save-loading, you just try, fail, try again in a slightly easier version, etc
20100809 15:08:05< Crab_> until you succeed
20100809 15:08:57< silene> Crab_: i'm not sure it would work in practice; i usually give up when i see there is no way i can win and i reload an earlier game
20100809 15:09:13< Upthorn> silene: well you'd have to tell the player
20100809 15:09:32< silene> Upthorn: i'm sure they will be happy
20100809 15:09:59< Upthorn> I'm having an idea
20100809 15:10:25< Upthorn> of a scenario where, when you lose it, the enemy units you killed are still dead/injured the next time you play
20100809 15:10:50< Crab_> Upthorn: makes sense for RPGs, yes
20100809 15:10:52< Upthorn> and all your units are available in recall, and the gold you accumulated is added to your starting amount.
20100809 15:11:11< Upthorn> but your leader has a different name
20100809 15:11:12< alink> another reverse example would be a scenario becoming harder each time you play it. Or a learning AI recording what worked or not
20100809 15:11:24< alink> s/play/win
20100809 15:12:38< Upthorn> like, this area is so strategically important to the army that they just keep sending new commanders there until they've taken it or all their forces are dead
20100809 15:13:53< alink> Upthorn: better send them all at once than one by one ;-p
20100809 15:14:11< Crab_> I expect that usually, set_ (unless it's an achievement-like thing which is safe to set multiple times ) would have to happen at the defeat/victory, not in the middle of the scenario - because, otherwise, weird things would happen if you save just before set_ and load the game multiple times
20100809 15:15:13< Upthorn> Crab_: that is an excellent point.
20100809 15:15:47< Crab_> and, also, if it's an achievement, I think that it should be saved regardless of the player remembering/forgotting to save the game before quitting or victorious or being defeated
20100809 15:16:15< silene> Crab_: why? the set_ should always be the same if you reload at the same point
20100809 15:16:37< timotei> fendrin: ping
20100809 15:16:48< Crab_> silene: think about " get_ global_gold_value, global_gold_value+=100; set_ global_gold_value "
20100809 15:17:28< silene> Crab_: so what? whether the set_ is in the middle of a game or at the end of the game, if you reload before it, it will happen
20100809 15:18:21< Upthorn> Crab_: I think that should be up to the WML authors to decide, but should be recommended
20100809 15:18:55< Crab_> silene: I think that people seldom reload the scenario when they're already won it.
20100809 15:19:12< Crab_> silene: compared to the number of mid-scenario reloads
20100809 15:19:50< Upthorn> because WML authors who do not want that sort of savescumming to have that kind of result will need to know that in the vast majority of cases, they want to load all the global variables at the start of the scenario, and save them at he end.
20100809 15:20:02< Crab_> of course, it's up to WML authors to decide when they want to do with their global variables
20100809 15:20:53< Upthorn> but, WML authors who have something different in mind may, for instance, want to keep track of the number of times a player has loaded a save before assaulting a fortified position
20100809 15:21:05< Crab_> but, my point is that 'save/defeat/victory' should lead to global variables being saved, not just 'save'.
20100809 15:21:39< Upthorn> they could use the WML trick to silently lower the accuracy of the enemies by 1% for each time the player had to load a save
20100809 15:21:48< Crab_> (where defeat includes 'defeated because of exit/loading another game/etc')
20100809 15:22:09< Upthorn> Crab_: yes, I agree.
20100809 15:22:47< Crab_> so, this way, there would be no user-visible transactions, but there would be moments of time when all the contexts are saved.
20100809 15:23:05< Crab_> and they won't need to store anything to savegame, because they'll be flushed on savegame.
20100809 15:23:18< Crab_> (flushed to disk)
20100809 15:23:36< Upthorn> though now I think there should be a way for WML authors to specify on [set_global_variable] that immediate=yes
20100809 15:23:53< Crab_> Upthorn: let us get the basic thing working first
20100809 15:23:59< Upthorn> of course.
20100809 15:24:17< Crab_> and, after that, we can think of 'flush here' option, yes
20100809 15:24:20 * Crab_ disappears for a while
20100809 15:25:14< Ivanovic> Rhonda: i think it is something like texas
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20100809 15:33:56< anonymissimus> silene: is there an elegant way to iterate over two strings simultaneously, in the way like string.gmatch in wml_actions.unit_overlay
20100809 15:34:43< anonymissimus> also, I googled for some good description for these string patterns, to no avail
20100809 15:35:43< timotei> anonymissimus: get an index and increment that?
20100809 15:35:50< timotei> str1[index] and str2[index]
20100809 15:36:08< silene> anonymissimus: you can always have a loop on one of the string.gmatch, and manually iterating the second (just call its result as if it was a function)
20100809 15:36:10< anonymissimus> I get nil when i do that in lua
20100809 15:36:29< anonymissimus> for strings
20100809 15:36:42< anonymissimus> (timotei)
20100809 15:37:24< silene> anonymissimus: as for the patterns, i use the documentation (section 5.4.1)
20100809 15:38:27< anonymissimus> yes, it find that harder to understand than e.g. the reference wml, and I don't think it's because of the language
20100809 15:40:03-!- Greywhind [~Greywhind@fw-34-19.cs.brown.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 15:41:10< silene> anonymissimus: do you know what a regular expression is? if not, you should look it up, it may help you understand patterns
20100809 15:42:27< anonymissimus> I know it in principle - not language-specific
20100809 15:43:07< silene> anonymissimus: also, when using lua patterns, i always open a lua binary and type thinks like: for w in string.gmatch("some  ,kind,  of test", "[^%s,][^,]*") do print(w) end
20100809 15:43:23< silene> things*
20100809 15:47:04< silene> anonymissimus: lua patterns are restricted regular expressions, you can only use +, ?, * on single character classes, not on arbitrary parenthesized patterns
20100809 16:06:45< fendrin> timotei: pong
20100809 16:07:32< timotei> fendrin: I have 2 questions
20100809 16:08:12< timotei> fendrin: 1) Should I try add navigation in macro definitions? So, when showing up a macro's definition, the user could click on another macro that is used in the definition, jumping to that macros's definition
20100809 16:08:45< timotei> 2) Should I try 'separating' proposal contents? So, for example, after the user CTRL+Space, if it CTRL+SPAce again, I'll list just macro, if it presses again, list just tags, etc
20100809 16:09:10< timotei> 2) So, categorizing the proposals starting with the second time the user Pressed CTRL+SPACE, *after* the list was already completed
20100809 16:09:35< fendrin> timotei: well, we have tags starting with [ and macros starting with {
20100809 16:09:45< fendrin> timotei: So that feature isn't that important.
20100809 16:12:18< timotei> fendrin: you speak about 2). good.
20100809 16:12:27< fendrin> shadowmaster: Turuk once changed the owner of all utbs threads to me in order to let me watch their progress more easily. (The "View your post" feature)
20100809 16:13:23< fendrin> shadowmaster: Please change the ownership of the campaign and all scenario threads away from me. I would suggest to give them to Espreon.
20100809 16:14:12< fendrin> timotei: Inside macro definitions are more macros. You ask if this macros should also be followable?
20100809 16:14:26< timotei> fendrin: yes
20100809 16:14:47< fendrin> timotei: Is it that complicated to achieve?
20100809 16:15:19< timotei> fendrin: well, is more of: 'much work' than 'hard'
20100809 16:15:33< timotei> fendrin: currently it's all about time spent on different things, rather than difficulty
20100809 16:15:48-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 16:15:59< timotei> fendrin: actually, I've thought of something
20100809 16:16:07< timotei> fendrin: if we make the 'follow' macros thing
20100809 16:16:13< fendrin> timotei: I guess that should work eventually. But it can be delayed till after gsoc.
20100809 16:16:17< timotei> ok;)
20100809 16:16:44< fendrin> timotei: Current grammar is also nearly fine enough.
20100809 16:16:57< timotei> fendrin: I'm sorry but I'm not satisfied with it
20100809 16:17:02< timotei> fendrin: so I will do it
20100809 16:17:06< timotei> fendrin: from scracth:P
20100809 16:17:46< fendrin> timotei: No problem.
20100809 16:17:58< fendrin> timotei: I have already some suggestions for that grammar.
20100809 16:18:02< timotei> fendrin: good
20100809 16:19:40< CIA-87> timotei * r45416 /trunk/utils/java/ (3 files in 3 dirs): eclipse plugin: use 'JavaSE-1.6' execution environment
20100809 16:19:53< CIA-87> timotei * r45417 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml.ui/ (5 files in 2 dirs): eclipse plugin: add wmldoc for macros
20100809 16:20:05< timotei> fendrin: I think I'll start today reworking the grammar, and see what ends
20100809 16:20:09< CIA-87> timotei * r45418 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/preprocessor/DefinesSAXHandler.java: 
20100809 16:20:10< CIA-87> eclipse plugin: skip reading characters if we didn't
20100809 16:20:10< CIA-87> parse a tag yet
20100809 16:20:22< CIA-87> timotei * r45419 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml.ui/src/org/wesnoth/ui/editor/WMLEditor.java: eclipse plugin: check for null URI when comparing 2 editor inputs
20100809 16:20:24< timotei> fendrin: tomorrow I want to do that .. mainline project thingy
20100809 16:20:32< fendrin> timotei: Okay, do you have time to hear my proposals now?
20100809 16:20:36< CIA-87> timotei * r45420 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml.ui/src/org/wesnoth/ui/labeling/wmldoc/ (5 files): eclipse plugin: add proper code for showing wml macro definition code
20100809 16:20:36< timotei> yes
20100809 16:21:03< fendrin> timotei: Okay, first the id.
20100809 16:21:14< fendrin> Id's only contain asci characters.
20100809 16:22:00< fendrin> They appear on the left of a key and on the right only with a $ in front of them. (The later is a variable call)
20100809 16:22:36< fendrin> the left of a = is a list of ids, number of value arguments must match that list size.
20100809 16:22:45< fendrin> example: x,y=1,2
20100809 16:23:13< fendrin> values are a little complex.
20100809 16:23:28< fendrin> They can either be a string embedded in "String" quotation.
20100809 16:23:47< fendrin> Or a translatable String like _ "String".
20100809 16:23:59< timotei> hmm... http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SyntaxWML it says: key1,key2,key3=value1,value2,value3 newline is a multiple assignment. If there are extra keys, they will be set to an empty value. If there are extra values the last key will be set to the comma separated list of all remaining values. 
20100809 16:24:02< timotei> is that outdated?
20100809 16:25:05< fendrin> timotei: No, I guess that is still valid. It will not be an error but could cause a warning.
20100809 16:26:32< fendrin> If a value is neither a string nor a translated string it can be a list of asci words (or id list, but I would not call it id).
20100809 16:27:03< fendrin> example: recruit=Elvish Fighter, Elvish Archer
20100809 16:27:44< fendrin> timotei: Everything in the body of a macro definition should be handled like normal wml code.
20100809 16:28:38< fendrin> timotei: But errors there a only handled as warnings, since we can't guess how akward the macro is used.
20100809 16:29:50< fendrin> $( ) is an extra issue. That is not a variable but a call to formula language.
20100809 16:30:35< fendrin> Note that $var|iable syntax.
20100809 16:31:41< fendrin> timotei: What do you think?
20100809 16:37:00< timotei> hmm
20100809 16:37:31< timotei> well, currently the main blocker of which I'm very afraid
20100809 16:37:37< timotei> is the thing like:
20100809 16:37:49< timotei> id=$myids[3]
20100809 16:38:06< timotei> I don't know how to write that good enough to not trigger any invalid routes for the grammar
20100809 16:38:34< timotei> the only escape would be putting and EOL ('\r'?'\n')
20100809 16:38:39< timotei> after the attribute value
20100809 16:38:46< timotei> but that will break some things like:
20100809 16:39:03< timotei> 1) the value of the attribute will have the EOL too, and that looks very ugly in outline/folding
20100809 16:39:09< timotei> 2) we can't use constructs like:
20100809 16:39:18< timotei> #define MCACCC
20100809 16:39:23< timotei> mykey=val#enddef
20100809 16:44:11< fendrin> timotei: Sorry, I don't get why that problem is present with the id=$myids[3] example.
20100809 16:44:19< fendrin> What makes that special?
20100809 16:45:16< timotei> well
20100809 16:45:27< timotei> maybe there is still an escape
20100809 16:45:39< timotei> can the '[3]' be seen without any $ before?
20100809 16:45:42< timotei> something like:
20100809 16:45:46< timotei> myval=array[3]?
20100809 16:45:56< timotei> or array it has to be a variable, thus having $
20100809 16:47:23< fendrin> timotei: No not necessarely. There are tags that explicitly take a variable. Like variable=a_var_name in some store unit tags. So you can not be sure that $ always preceeds a variable id. I guess you may need to hardcode those things anyway.
20100809 16:47:37< timotei> fendrin: the problem is following
20100809 16:47:40< timotei> if I write the following:
20100809 16:47:45< timotei> (one sec)
20100809 16:47:52< fendrin> timotei: The wml schema needs to specify the type of the attribute to be a variable.
20100809 16:50:42-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-248-66.telecom.by] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100809 17:07:11-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100809 17:28:11< anonymissimus> silene: so does "[^%s,][^,]*" mean "a token which is neither space nor comma, followed by a variable number of non-commas" ? the * became clearer when you mentioned regexps
20100809 17:29:50< silene> anonymissimus: replace "token" by "character" and "variable" by "as many as possible" and you got it right
20100809 17:37:54-!- Sapient [~sapient@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 17:38:12< Sapient> timotei: $myids[3] is not a valid scalar...
20100809 17:38:35< Sapient> read VariablesWML not just SyntaxWML
20100809 17:38:37< timotei> Sapient: umm... why not?
20100809 17:38:39< timotei> ok
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20100809 17:57:45< CIA-87> silene * r45421 /trunk/src/ (config.cpp config.hpp game.cpp): 
20100809 17:57:46< CIA-87> Added function for splicing children between config objects.
20100809 17:57:46< CIA-87> This speeds up configuration loading by 50%.
20100809 18:01:23-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100809 18:21:15< fendrin> timotei: I have used just $something[0] many times. Wasn't aware that it is illegal in some situations.
20100809 18:21:38< timotei> fendrin: well, I'm reading again the whole syntax+variablesWML stuff
20100809 18:21:49< timotei> fendrin: and setting up some test classes
20100809 18:26:39< silene> fendrin: it is always illegal, it doesn't mean anything to the engine
20100809 18:27:12< silene> in other words, the engine just replaces it by the empty string
20100809 18:30:22< timotei> I still don't get it. when you should use $ and when not?
20100809 18:30:27< timotei> when refering to a variable?
20100809 18:30:59< Rhonda> Sirp, need ya. :)
20100809 18:32:50< silene> timotei: $ triggers variable substitution; whenever it appears in wml inside events, the engine replaces it by the content of the variable before handling the value of the attribute
20100809 18:33:00< timotei> oh
20100809 18:33:01< timotei> ok
20100809 18:41:11-!- billynux [~billy@wesnoth/developer/billynux] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 18:41:26< timotei> hmm, silene couldn't we enforce paths to be withing " "?
20100809 18:41:48< silene> timotei: why?
20100809 18:42:23< timotei> silene: well, it's a bit weird this way. one could put any character there
20100809 18:47:49< silene> so what? wml is a language where end of lines are significant, so you don't have much use for quotes; namely, the only times are for '"', '\n', '+', ' ', and '#'; they hardly happen inside paths
20100809 18:55:50< Rhonda> What characters would you want to use in a path that would need you to quote it?
20100809 19:00:29-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 19:01:46< timotei> silene: yeah, everything is ok for endoflines until things like: #define\n id=foo#enddef
20100809 19:01:52< timotei> where's the sweet eol?:P
20100809 19:04:52< silene> timotei: that's why i mentioned '#' among the special characters
20100809 19:13:08-!- MeccaGod [~majs@h14n4fls31o279.telia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100809 19:17:11< boucman> hey all
20100809 19:17:28< timotei> hi boucman 
20100809 19:27:30< anonymissimus> can someone show me a usecase for $this_unit in a wml filter
20100809 19:28:22< anonymissimus> never needed it so far
20100809 19:30:07 * Rhonda nibbles on Sirp
20100809 19:32:31-!- Bocom [~Bocom@c-b7cfe255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20100809 19:33:37< silene> anonymissimus: that's a good question; i regularly have to refrain myself from removing it from the engine; as far as i know, it isn't used in mainline
20100809 19:34:46< Ivanovic> billynux, gabba, timotei, Upthorn: keep in mind that only one week is left till the final evals start
20100809 19:35:04< billynux> Ivanovic, thanks, I do
20100809 19:35:11< Ivanovic> (that is the time on which or evals have to be based, of course you are free to continue working and improving things ;) )
20100809 19:35:53< silene> anonymissimus: i know that Elvish_Pillage2 uses it like this: [have_unit][filter_location]radius="$this_unit.variable.range"
20100809 19:38:13-!- Bocom [~Bocom@c-b7cfe255.013-31-6b736412.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 19:42:07< anonymissimus> how can unit filters even be correctly passed to lua code then ?
20100809 19:42:32< anonymissimus> when there happens to be e.g. id=$var, substitution needs to be made at the start
20100809 19:42:43< anonymissimus> before passing to e.g. get_units
20100809 19:42:58< anonymissimus> but if there's $this_unit, substitution mustn't be made
20100809 19:45:11< timotei> Ivanovic: yep. thanks
20100809 19:45:24< silene> anonymissimus: the object passed to wml actions written in lua is a proxy object and variable substitution happens on the fly; in particular, if you pass it (or one of its children) to get_units, $this_unit won't have been substituted yet
20100809 19:46:04< silene> that's why you need to use the __literal and __parsed fields when you need something that is frozen
20100809 19:47:30-!- Upth [ogmar@75.26.198.150] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 19:48:00< silene> anonymissimus: so, for your example, "cfg.id" is variable substituted, but "get_units(child(cfg, 'filter'))" is not (yet)
20100809 19:48:53< silene> more precisely, [insert_tag] at toplevel has been substituted (just in case [filter] was hidden behind it), but that's all
20100809 19:50:55-!- Upthorn [ogmar@75.26.198.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20100809 19:55:45< timotei> ohh, 'Elf Land' by Aleski Aubry-Carlson is so niceeeee
20100809 19:55:49< timotei> (from the wesnoth OST)
20100809 19:58:47< Unnheulu> timotei, on retrospect, northern rebirth would be a better first campaign
20100809 19:59:35< timotei> :-)
20100809 20:00:12< Unnheulu> (I'm kidding :P)
20100809 20:01:08< elias> wesnoth OST?
20100809 20:01:17< elias> can i buy that on itunes?
20100809 20:04:13< CIA-87> eleazar * r45422 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: removed Manuel Os?\195?\179rio Binelo (manuelb) from the credits per his request on the forums. http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=31089
20100809 20:06:10< billynux> OT: why would one request to be removed from credits?
20100809 20:07:06< elias> maybe never wanted to appear there
20100809 20:07:43< boucman> elias: that would be suprising, we ask for how people want to appear before adding them...
20100809 20:08:11< shadowmaster> fendrin: sorry, but I don't care
20100809 20:08:16< shadowmaster> get Ivanovic to do it for you if you want.
20100809 20:08:35< shadowmaster> I'm tired of your drama.
20100809 20:08:52< fendrin> shadowmaster: No it's not that important. I am just not going to process the forum posts in any way.
20100809 20:13:02< Rhonda> What's Sirp's mail address again?
20100809 20:13:23< shadowmaster> Rhonda: Sirp is around right now as Sirp__
20100809 20:13:23-!- eleazar [~eleazar@ppp-70-226-209-195.dsl.spfdil.ameritech.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 20:13:26< timotei> dave [at] whitevine.net
20100809 20:13:29< shadowmaster> you might want to try /msg'ing him
20100809 20:13:43< timotei> Rhonda: ^
20100809 20:13:46< shadowmaster>  I'm not completely sure his whitevine.net address is still good
20100809 20:13:59< Rhonda> shadowmaster: Oh, thanks.
20100809 20:14:57< zookeeper> fendrin, it doesn't matter who's the OP of the feedback threads
20100809 20:15:29< zookeeper> no reason why anyone should change dave's HttT feedback threads to be seemingly by someone else
20100809 20:15:50< fendrin> zookeeper: Well, they do clutter my "View your posts list".
20100809 20:16:09< zookeeper> well, ok, if you use that feature a lot, i guess...
20100809 20:16:15< fendrin> zookeeper: And it was the easiest way for me to follow them. 
20100809 20:16:31< Rhonda> noy, are you around?
20100809 20:16:36< Rhonda> I have some proposal to make. :P
20100809 20:16:37< fendrin> zookeeper: Indeed, I do. All stuff that is for me usually comes up there.
20100809 20:16:41< zookeeper> i have 133 pages of "my posts" it seems, so i guess it isn't very useful for me :x
20100809 20:17:00-!- AnMaster [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 20:17:07< shadowmaster> fortunately I have just 52. Still useless.
20100809 20:17:34< fendrin> Ivanovic: Can you help me with the forum please? I need to give up the ownership of some threads.
20100809 20:39:03< Ivanovic> fendrin: no idea how to do so and, uhm, *why*?
20100809 20:41:24< fendrin> Ivanovic: When I took over UtBS it was the easiest way to connect me with all threads that needed to be watched by changing the ownership to me. So utbs threads no longer belong to quartex but to me. Since I am no longer maintaining utbs it would be nice to change the ownership to the new maintainer. That will reduce my cluttered "view your posts" thing and help the new maintainer to take care about the feedback.
20100809 20:43:44-!- billynux is now known as billynux-afk
20100809 20:47:05< Ivanovic> fendrin: honestly, no, i got better stuff to do with my time
20100809 20:47:21< Ivanovic> though you can probably do it yourself since this does *not* seem to require admin but only moderator privs
20100809 20:47:39< Ivanovic> (never have done this myself, search how it might work, i would have to do the same search)
20100809 20:50:14< timotei> fendrin: I don't think it's possibl to change the owner
20100809 20:50:22< timotei> fendrin: you've just been 'subscribed' to the threads
20100809 20:50:34< fendrin> timotei: I am sure it is. Turuk was able to do so. 
20100809 20:50:53< fendrin> timotei: But I guess that you need more privileges than we both own.
20100809 20:50:53< shadowmaster> yes, it is possible.
20100809 20:51:02< timotei> fendrin: that means it should have changed the REAL author of the post to another one
20100809 20:51:30< shadowmaster> and even if the forum didn't provide a system for that, you can always just alter the SQL tables
20100809 20:51:52< timotei> shadowmaster: like I said. changing the 'author' will change the real topic started
20100809 20:51:52< shadowmaster> also, no, it's no longer a moderator privilege.
20100809 20:51:57< shadowmaster> timotei: no
20100809 20:52:03< shadowmaster> it changes the author, not the post dates
20100809 20:52:21< timotei> yes, I'm talking about author:P
20100809 20:52:37< timotei> but subscribing should be used for getting posted of new posts
20100809 20:53:09< fendrin> I wish we had Turuk back.
20100809 20:53:16< shadowmaster> you won't have Turuk back.
20100809 20:53:22< shadowmaster> we have already talked abut this.
20100809 20:53:52< fendrin> timotei: Did you discover how to do it?
20100809 20:53:57< timotei> fendrin: what?
20100809 20:54:06< fendrin> timotei: Changing the author?
20100809 20:54:11< shadowmaster> 14:51:52 <shadowmaster> also, no, it's no longer a moderator privilege.
20100809 20:54:23< shadowmaster> "moderator" includes Developers.
20100809 20:54:32< shadowmaster> only admins may do so now.
20100809 20:54:37< timotei> fendrin: you should NOT use 'view my own posts', but use subscribing
20100809 20:54:51< shadowmaster> and since I'm already tired of being hilighted by your drama lines, I'm not really in the mood for that.
20100809 20:55:07< shadowmaster> it's not my fault that you can't take criticism.
20100809 20:55:07< fendrin> timotei: I tried. The subscribing interface is just ugly and horrible to use.
20100809 20:55:43< timotei> fendrin: just subscribe to topics, and you get emails for each post in that portion (forum/thread)
20100809 20:56:01< shadowmaster> and no, I'm not giving moderators that privilege back. It's easy to abuse it/accidentally use it.
20100809 20:56:04< timotei> fendrin: so you need only once to press 'subscribe'
20100809 20:56:15< shadowmaster> anyway, off to class. See you in the evening.
20100809 20:56:24< fendrin> timotei: Thank you. :-) 
20100809 20:56:37< timotei> fendrin: yw
20100809 20:56:45< fendrin> timotei: I have tried it out. I am just a little happier with the "view your posts" thing.
20100809 20:57:55< timotei> fendrin: well, everyone knows how it's better for him. for me, the subscribe thing is the best. I'm announced everytime I get a new post, and I don't need to check threads until that
20100809 20:59:05< timotei> fendrin: but regarding the changing author, I think you need to 'hack' the db
20100809 21:03:03< fendrin> timotei: I don't think that Turuk did that.
20100809 21:03:26< fendrin> timotei: But anyway, I have no access to the db and nobody is doing it for me. 
20100809 21:04:39< timotei> fendrin: well, I think he might have done some magic, or some unkown by me features of phpbb
20100809 21:05:00< timotei> hmm
20100809 21:05:02< timotei> or not:D
20100809 21:05:11< fendrin> :-)
20100809 21:06:42< timotei> fendrin: shadowmaster was true. we (developers) don't have that feature enabled:D
20100809 21:06:58< timotei> fendrin: http://forums.wesnoth.org/mcp.php?&f=22&t=22457&i=main&p=313576&mode=post_details&f=22
20100809 21:07:16< timotei> fendrin: near poster, there should have been a box to change the author
20100809 21:08:06< fendrin> timotei: Let's stop highlighting him. Like every real man he can't stand drama ;-)
20100809 21:12:16< CIA-87> fendrin * r45423 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (7 files in 4 dirs): 
20100809 21:12:16< CIA-87> LoW:
20100809 21:12:16< CIA-87> Made the event that let Kalenz moan about lossing loyals being repeatable.
20100809 21:12:16< CIA-87> Updated the winter_mask map macro to cover the new terrains.
20100809 21:12:16< CIA-87> Some map and mask updates.
20100809 21:13:16< fendrin> zookeeper: Can you lend me your ears for a scenario design issue, please?
20100809 21:14:21< zookeeper> fendrin, sure, what do you need?
20100809 21:14:45< fendrin> zookeeper: Have you LoW scenario 5 "The Saurian Treasury" in mind?
20100809 21:15:27< fendrin> The objective has been to reach the map tile where the Treasury is stored and then spawned 3 new units that had to be killed to finish the map.
20100809 21:16:23< fendrin> I have changed it so that a rider has to reach the chest, and has to be brought to a signpost to gain victory.
20100809 21:17:13< fendrin> I felt that it maybe too easy to keep the 3 spawned out but it's a little too hard with them in. 
20100809 21:17:27< fendrin> It's also some kind of tomato surprise.
20100809 21:17:56-!- Gallaecio [~Gallaecio@72.137.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 21:18:07< zookeeper> fendrin, well, yeah, i hate tomato surprises
20100809 21:19:07< fendrin> I am playing with the thought to let abandon the spawn but tune the saurians' ai to make up for that.
20100809 21:19:08< zookeeper> so you want to make it hard to get the gold back to the signpost, but without tomato surprises?
20100809 21:19:31< fendrin> Yes, I have already coded that carrying the gold will slow the rider at all times.
20100809 21:19:51< fendrin> And when the rider is killed the gold drops and can be fetched by the next rider the player brings in.
20100809 21:20:16< zookeeper> oh, ok
20100809 21:20:25< fendrin> I mean that a filter applies the slow weapon buff every round to a gold carrier.
20100809 21:20:39< zookeeper> sounds like a good way to do it
20100809 21:21:14< fendrin> Yes, it is just not enough.
20100809 21:21:51< zookeeper> make the terrain worse for the elves?
20100809 21:22:15< fendrin> I wonder if making the ai go for riders or go for exactly the carring rider would be a good ide. Maybe combined with an ai order to protect the hexes where the gold is dropped including it's start point.
20100809 21:23:11< zookeeper> i guess only playtesting can tell
20100809 21:24:11< fendrin> zookeeper: Which is the setup you would count on being the best candidate to playtest?
20100809 21:26:20< zookeeper> well, i don't think you need to make them guard the location where the gold is dropped
20100809 21:27:01< fendrin> zookeeper: And then you also think it is not a good idea to let them go after every rider preferred?
20100809 21:27:04< zookeeper> if the gold is dropped the player is just gonna try to grab it with the closest and fastest unit, so if the saurians can guard the location, they can attack those units anyway
20100809 21:27:31< zookeeper> well, you can make them prefer going after both, but still prefer the carrying rider (much) more
20100809 21:28:19< fendrin> zookeeper: Thanks, I am going to try that first.
20100809 21:41:13< fendrin> zookeeper: Is there a way to start with a non static time of day? Like scenario3 was finished at evening, so scenario4 starts at night. 
20100809 21:51:33-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-248-66.telecom.by] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100809 21:57:46< CIA-87> silene * r45424 /trunk/src/ (config.cpp config.hpp): Optimized config handling by comparing pointers instead of strings when visiting the ordered children.
20100809 21:57:55< CIA-87> silene * r45425 /trunk/src/unit_types.cpp: Reduced amount of copying needed for handling unit types with a base.
20100809 21:57:57< CIA-87> silene * r45426 /trunk/src/ (unit_types.cpp unit_types.hpp): 
20100809 21:57:57< CIA-87> Optimized unit type creation by:
20100809 21:57:57< CIA-87> - delaying male and female creation until they are actually needed,
20100809 21:57:57< CIA-87> - removing their private config object.
20100809 21:57:58< CIA-87> As a side effect, it considerably reduces the memory usage of unit types.
20100809 22:00:43-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 22:00:51< gabba> bonjour
20100809 22:01:11< timotei> hi gabba 
20100809 22:01:20< gabba> hi timotei
20100809 22:01:50< boucman> hey gabba
20100809 22:01:57< boucman> i have a small bug for you :)
20100809 22:01:59< gabba> hey boucman
20100809 22:02:16< boucman> recruit/recall don't use the real leader position instead of the planned one, it seems
20100809 22:02:23< gabba> bugs? I'm not surprised :P
20100809 22:02:23< boucman> I mean use the leader position
20100809 22:03:00< gabba> oh, you mean... yeah, I hadn't thought of that
20100809 22:03:04< CIA-87> eleazar * r45427 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/castle/ (castle-to-ice-ne.png castle-to-water-ne.png): fixed glitch with castle-to-water transition.
20100809 22:03:57< boucman> apart from that, how is it going ?
20100809 22:04:15< gabba> boucman: but this reminds me of a problem: in my tests I tended to plan some recruits, and then forget to execute them and move the leader (hence deleting all planned recruits because validation got them)
20100809 22:04:36< boucman> hmm
20100809 22:04:48< boucman> and you think a pop-up warning would be a good idea ?
20100809 22:05:03< gabba> boucman: apart from that I'm catching up and reading the logs, then I proceed as discussed on friday
20100809 22:05:11< boucman> k
20100809 22:05:54< gabba> boucman: the pop-up, probably a good idea, but with your bug mixed in I have to rethink how it should work
20100809 22:06:30< boucman> ok, so let's fix my bug first and then see how it turns out... since with my bug it was possible to plan impossible recruits
20100809 22:07:45< gabba> Or rather possible if you execute the actions in order, right?
20100809 22:08:15< boucman> no, the bug is (assuming leader is on keep) 
20100809 22:08:23< boucman> 1) plan leader out of keep
20100809 22:08:27< boucman> 2) plan recruit
20100809 22:08:39< boucman> 2 should be invalid, but is actually possible to plan
20100809 22:10:39< gabba> ok, so the problem is that I *don't* use the leader's future position, while I should (you seem to have said the contrary above). I imagine it's just a matter of applying the unit map scope at one more place, looking into it.
20100809 22:11:26< boucman> gabba: yes, I wasn't exactly clear there, sorry
20100809 22:14:51-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100809 22:16:34< boucman> hey Crab_
20100809 22:16:44< Crab_> hi, boucman
20100809 22:17:23< boucman> Crab_: gabba and I have a small question about attack stats which you probably ran into during your AI work...
20100809 22:17:41 * Crab_ is listening
20100809 22:17:45< boucman> how complicated is it to calculate the attack statistics of two attacks (or more) in a row ?
20100809 22:18:11< Crab_> attack stats is calculated by taking multiple attackers (1 to 6, in sequence) against one defender.
20100809 22:18:15< boucman> i.e the resulting hp layout of all three units (the defender, the first attacker, the second attacker)
20100809 22:18:26< boucman> wow cool
20100809 22:21:59< Crab_> see src/ai/default/attack.cpp starting at line 95
20100809 22:22:42< Crab_> and the next 150 lines )
20100809 22:22:55< Crab_> you probably need only a small part of it
20100809 22:23:25< Crab_> e.g. because you don't need that much caching, since human think time >> calculation time for single group of attacks
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20100809 22:29:02< zookeeper> fendrin, not that i know of, unless random_start_time= supports variable substitution (i doubt that) or [modify_turns] is good enough
20100809 22:29:11< Crab_> boucman: basically, what it does is 'move units to their hypothetical positions, use battle_contexts to calculate stats for each attacker, taking the combatant stats (hp distribution,etc) for the defender into account.
20100809 22:29:50< fendrin> Crab_: I don't get how to use the ai tag. :-(
20100809 22:30:41< Crab_> fendrin: use it for what ? you use [ai] in [side] according to http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Customizing_AI_in_Wesnoth_1.8 or you use [modify_ai] to do changes from [event] tags (or from [side][ai] )
20100809 22:31:36< Crab_> fendrin: generally, in 99% cases, it should like this: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/utr22Cfi
20100809 22:31:49< Crab_> (that's for side 2)
20100809 22:31:49< fendrin> Crab_: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/wc8caUvb
20100809 22:32:19< Crab_> fendrin: [target] tags are old syntax. use [goal] tags
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20100809 22:32:21< anonymissimus> silene: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16391
20100809 22:33:28< Crab_> fendrin: see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Customizing_AI_in_Wesnoth_1.8#target_.5Bgoal.5D
20100809 22:33:49< fendrin> Crab_: Damn, I had goal syntax. But that is not what the wiki says. How do they overwrite each other? Which value is choosen if a unit matches several filters? Like in that example every elve matches the first rule.
20100809 22:34:00< gabba> thanks Crab_ :) . boucman, I guess that if we get something in quickly this week, we'll simply show a "Combined CTK%" somewhere? Anything else seems a bit risky to me, unless you have a master plan for how to display all that info in the attack stats dialog...
20100809 22:34:05< silene> anonymissimus: makes sense, thanks
20100809 22:34:44< anonymissimus> does the wml philosohpy "no event should be able to crash wesnoth" apply for lua too ?
20100809 22:34:53< fendrin> Crab_: And what is the default for units not matching any filter?
20100809 22:34:59< boucman> gabba: i'm not sure how the display dialog and the attack context interacts, but if you could show the cumulative layout, it would be great...
20100809 22:35:08< Crab_> fendrin: think of goals as 'markers' placed on map
20100809 22:35:21< silene> anonymissimus: yes
20100809 22:35:26< Crab_> fendrin: there are 'implicit' markers - controller by leader_value and village_value
20100809 22:37:41< gabba> boucman: hmm, can't reproduce your bug. If I plan a move for my leader outside of the keep, I get the normal "You must have your leader on a keep to recruit or recall units."
20100809 22:38:19< gabba> I tried it both with :wb activated, and with just the tab key to plan the move
20100809 22:38:28< Crab_> silene: if lua put_unit function is supposed to behave like wml [unit] tag, then it might make sense to reuse the unit_creator which is used by [event][unit] and [side][unit], or just reuse the entire C handler of [unit] tag.
20100809 22:38:31< boucman> gabba: i'll retest
20100809 22:38:42< Crab_> s/C/C++
20100809 22:38:44< gabba> boucman: unless... wait, I haven't updated to latest svn, maybe somebody broke my code
20100809 22:39:15< timotei> gabba: it was the cat
20100809 22:39:16< timotei> :P
20100809 22:39:32< gabba> damn cat, as usual
20100809 22:39:34< silene> Crab_: no, in this case, put_unit is used to move a unit from a location to another; it's completely out of the scope from [unit]
20100809 22:39:38< Crab_> ok
20100809 22:39:53< boucman> gabba: bug is still here for me, I move my leader out, plan him back, and I don't have the options in the right click menu to recall
20100809 22:40:19< Crab_> fendrin: if units don't match any filter, then no 'goal' marker is created at their location.
20100809 22:40:36< Crab_> fendrin: and [goal] tags acts like factories for explicit markers
20100809 22:40:46< CIA-87> gabba * r45428 /trunk/src/whiteboard/manager.cpp: Whiteboard: add more conditions to block whiteboard activation at critical moments.
20100809 22:41:10< Crab_> 'target' goal (default type of goal) places 'move here during strategic movement' marker on enemy/friendly units
20100809 22:41:24< fendrin> Crab_: okay, but how does that help me? How are goaled units handled compared to non goaled? The filter is evaluated every turn, is it?
20100809 22:41:35< Crab_> (and 'protect' goals place 'target' markers on all enemy units which are close enough to protected locations/units)
20100809 22:41:48< CIA-87> silene * r45429 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Erased target location before moving a unit. (Fix for bug #16391.)
20100809 22:42:02-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 136 bugs, 286 feature requests, 13 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100809 22:42:12< Ivanovic> 1.8.4 announcement: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31092
20100809 22:42:28< Crab_> fendrin: when AI has units which are non wounded and are away from the enemy, the AI would move them towards targets.
20100809 22:43:07< Crab_> fendrin: if multiple units are away from the enemy, the AI would divide them according to distance to targets (closer -> more imprortant) and their relative value.
20100809 22:43:55< gabba> boucman: makes sense for the right-click menu since I still have to rip out... err gently modify it. This is the same problem as for OOT recruit: no menu options and hotkeys probably are disabled too.
20100809 22:44:17< Crab_> fendrin: looking at your pastebin...
20100809 22:44:44< Ivanovic> updated the frontpage, too
20100809 22:44:45< CIA-87> silene * r45430 /branches/1.8/src/scripting/lua.cpp: 
20100809 22:44:45< CIA-87> Erased target location before moving a unit. (Fix for bug #16391.)
20100809 22:44:45< CIA-87> Backported from trunk r45429.
20100809 22:44:45< boucman> gabba: ok, 
20100809 22:45:03< Crab_> fendrin: before gold is taken, I would recommend targeting the current location of the gold, either via protect_location or via placing a friendly unit on it with ai_special=guardian and targeting it
20100809 22:45:19< Crab_> fendrin: after the gold is taken, I recommend targeting the gold carrier.
20100809 22:47:04< Crab_> for wesnoth 1.9, I'll add another type of goal which will allow to target a (even if unoccupied) locations by SLF.
20100809 22:47:20< fendrin> Crab_: Placing a unit on the hex is a good idea. 
20100809 22:47:22< Ivanovic> boucman, Crab_, fendrin, mordante: please have a look at the mentor ml for the questions you will have to answer in the final evals that start in one week
20100809 22:47:29< Crab_> Ivanovic: ok
20100809 22:47:43< Ivanovic> (that is: if you want to, you can already prepare your answers...)
20100809 22:48:13< timotei> Ivanovic: on the student's one are putted too:P
20100809 22:48:36< Ivanovic> timotei: i ain't on the student list, so no idea what is available there...
20100809 22:48:37< timotei> actually: They are on the student's one too
20100809 22:49:52< Crab_> fendrin: you can (and should) target friendly units if you want the AI to group near them if no enemies are near.
20100809 22:50:46< Crab_> fendrin: Just don't target the leader unless you know that the fact that friendly units will block all space in keep is ok :)
20100809 22:50:51< fendrin> Crab_: Okay, so the setup is: Place a guardian on the field. Tell the ai to protect it.
20100809 22:51:24< Crab_> fendrin: two choices. a) tell the ai to protect it - it won't do anything till any enemy appears in radius you give - then, it'll move to meet those enemies.
20100809 22:51:38< Crab_> b) tell the ai to target it - it will move units next to it regardless of the enemy actions
20100809 22:51:53< Crab_> `protect` leads to reaction to enemy actions
20100809 22:52:08< fendrin> Crab_: Didn't you say that target is deprecated?
20100809 22:52:10< Crab_> `target` leads to 'always move closer if you don't know what to do'
20100809 22:52:19< Crab_> fendrin: [target] tag is deprecated
20100809 22:52:50< timotei> Ivanovic: will there be 1.8.5 after 1.9 release?
20100809 22:53:01< Ivanovic> timotei: that is likely
20100809 22:53:22< Ivanovic> (since there were already commits in the 1.8 tree after tagging 1.8.4)
20100809 22:54:08< Crab_> fendrin: both 'target' (default one, no need to name it) and 'protect_location' and 'protect_my_unit'  and 'protect_unit' are different types of [goal]
20100809 22:54:31< fendrin> Crab_: So I will need to take name=protect_my_unit ?
20100809 22:54:45< Crab_> fendrin: yes, if you want the (a) route.
20100809 22:55:07< Crab_> as of http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Customizing_AI_in_Wesnoth_1.8#protect_my_unit_.5Bgoal.5D
20100809 22:55:52< Crab_> fendrin: you're coding for 1.8 line or for 1.9 line ?
20100809 22:57:03< fendrin> Crab_: Only 1.9.
20100809 22:57:04< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45431 /branches/1.8/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated Japanese translation
20100809 22:57:04< CIA-87> ivanovic * r45432 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-trow/ja.po wesnoth-utbs/ja.po): updated Japanese translation
20100809 22:58:03-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100809 22:59:29< Crab_> fendrin: please note --log-debug=ai/goal
20100809 22:59:51< Crab_> fendrin: the AI will echo all the target markers it has created.
20100809 23:00:36< fendrin> Crab_: I want to avoid creating target markers for all elves. What is a good value then?
20100809 23:00:48< Crab_> fendrin: for protection radius ?
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20100809 23:01:19< Crab_> fendrin: I think that 1.5 to 2.0 of combat range is ok.
20100809 23:01:34< Crab_> fendrin: so, if elves have speed 9, then 14 to 18 is probably ook
20100809 23:02:39-!- Upth [ogmar@75.26.198.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20100809 23:03:08< fendrin> Crab_: I mean vor value=
20100809 23:03:18< fendrin> s/vor/for
20100809 23:03:25< Crab_> fendrin: I usually use 10 :)
20100809 23:06:54< timotei> fendrin: I'm out. I'll try tomorrow another grammar, it looks like I really have to take it step-by-step
20100809 23:07:04< fendrin> timotei: bye
20100809 23:07:12< timotei> good night everyone
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20100809 23:12:31< fendrin> Crab_: Okay, if a unit matches several goals, do they stack? Or is the maximum used or the minimum? 
20100809 23:19:29< fendrin> zookeeper: Is there a overlay for an important enemy unit? In my use case the unit is needed to be killed.
20100809 23:19:42< Crab_> fendrin: if a location contains several target markers, all are considered. generally, the biggest ones have most impact.
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20100809 23:28:15< zookeeper> fendrin, no, there isn't
20100809 23:29:44< fendrin> Crab_: ai_special=guardian does not work inside a [unit]?
20100809 23:30:02< Crab_> it should
20100809 23:30:22< Crab_> it should lead to the ai not moving that unit if no enemies are in combat range of it
20100809 23:30:31< Crab_> if it isn't , might be a bug
20100809 23:31:23< fendrin> Crab_: Hmm, I guess I need more a unit that stands still but attacks if sourrounded.
20100809 23:31:34< Crab_> fendrin: set it's maximum MP to 0 :)
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20100809 23:32:10< Crab_> fendrin: or add a stopunit action at start of ai turn for it
20100809 23:32:40< Crab_> fendrin: meanwhile, I've added [goal] name=target_location [criteria] SLF [/criteria] value=VALUE [/goal]
20100809 23:32:44< fendrin> Crab_: Hmmm, the MP 0 solution is cool.
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20100809 23:33:16< Crab_> fendrin: it should allow you to ask the ai to move it's 'free' units to the target location, if no enemies are near
20100809 23:33:25< fendrin> Crab_: But it is too bad that we can not filter for the location where the gold is dropped somehow.
20100809 23:33:40< Crab_> fendrin: you can't do it with SLF ?
20100809 23:33:53< fendrin> Crab_: Well, what should I filter?
20100809 23:34:06< Crab_> fendrin: you're more familiar with SLFs than I
20100809 23:34:27< fendrin> zookeeper: Can I filter for an overlay?
20100809 23:34:31< Crab_> fendrin: if you can't, I guess you should change the goal as soon as gold is dropped or changes place
20100809 23:34:59< fendrin> Crab_: Yes, I need some [modify_ai] something black magic.
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20100809 23:38:05< zookeeper> fendrin, no, not _an_ overlay
20100809 23:38:41< zookeeper> but of course you can use [filter_wml] to filter on the whole overlays string
20100809 23:38:52< Crab_> fendrin: it's fairly easy. something like   {MODIFY_AI_TRY_DELETE_GOAL 2 your_goal_id}  {MODIFY_AI_ADD_GOAL 2 ( [goal] id=your_goal_id    name=target_location value=10 [criteria] x,y=A,B [/criteria] [/goal] ) }
20100809 23:39:29< zookeeper> uh, and of course you can filter for a variable location
20100809 23:39:50< zookeeper> find_in=storedlocation or x,y=$foox,$fooy
20100809 23:40:09< zookeeper> i'm assuming variable substitution works in AI WML?
20100809 23:40:12< CIA-87> crab * r45433 /trunk/src/ai/ (composite/goal.cpp composite/goal.hpp registry.cpp): new type of AI goal : target_location
20100809 23:40:46< Crab_> zookeeper: no, it doesn't work atm, but I think I can fix it till 1.9 comes out.
20100809 23:41:14< zookeeper> Crab_, ok, cool
20100809 23:41:23< Crab_> fendrin: so, I suggest you commit a non-working goal with variable substitution, and I'll ensure that it works.
20100809 23:41:31< Crab_> fendrin: or go the modify_ai route.
20100809 23:41:53< Crab_> for debugging, :inspect and --log-debug=ai/mod are good.
20100809 23:42:51< Crab_> most of the AI stuff works with configs, not vconfigs, because most of the structures are parsed into C++ data structures anyway...
20100809 23:43:16< Crab_> but, for goals, it makes sense to drag that vconfig stuff along, since terrain_filter works with vconfigs
20100809 23:44:17< Crab_> zookeeper: and what is find_in=storedlocation ? it doesn't require variable substitution to work,right ?
20100809 23:47:09< zookeeper> Crab_, it matches any location stored in the array storedlocation
20100809 23:47:47< Crab_> zookeeper: so, array storedlocation is evaluated during execution time, not during variable substitution time ?
20100809 23:48:11< zookeeper> Crab_, AFAICT yes
20100809 23:48:23< Crab_> fendrin: ^ then try that way, it should work out of the box, then
20100809 23:49:03< Crab_> zookeeper: it looks like you're right, from the code...
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20100809 23:53:50< zookeeper> btw, CIA isn't mentioned alongside wesbot in the bot credits
20100809 23:53:55< zookeeper> i guess i can add it? :P
20100809 23:54:04< zookeeper> should shikadibot be there too?
20100809 23:55:04< Crab_> zookeeper: why not, they're channel regulars and do their duty :)
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20100809 23:59:18< Crab_> fendrin: note that that target_location goal allows to do one trick I'm eager to try out...
20100809 23:59:36< Crab_> fendrin: basically, it allows to make the AI 'mass' units in any specified area of the map
--- Log closed Tue Aug 10 00:00:14 2010