--- Log opened Wed Aug 11 00:00:20 2010
20100811 00:05:33< fendrin> wesbot: Seen silene?
20100811 00:05:33< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick silene last spoke 2h 16m ago.  1h 41m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100811 00:13:51< eleazar> alink: thanks
20100811 00:14:39< alink> eleazar: well, don't thank me too fast, it seems to not fix it :-/
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20100811 00:15:33< alink> the coast-tropical has black transparent backgourd.
20100811 00:16:47< alink> but I maybe jumped to quick to conclusion
20100811 00:17:06< alink> or I do something stupid with Gimp
20100811 00:19:45< alink> it's the main difference with coast.png which works well (no black pixels)
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20100811 00:21:11 * alink is puzzled
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20100811 00:30:54< alink> ok I think I finally found the cause; there are few pixels near the border of the hex with 99% alpha instead of 100%
20100811 00:31:41< alink> but that doesn't explain why it created black pixels
20100811 00:32:24< alink> and most gimp modification fix the glitch, so it's maybe not the true cause
20100811 00:33:22< eleazar> the minimap treats transparency as binary?  either 100% opaque or else it's 100% transparent?
20100811 00:33:52< alink> no it's not supposed to do this
20100811 00:34:41< alink> but half-transparent pixels are wrong there since they create holes, not sure why we see so much black trough 99% alpha though
20100811 00:36:24< eleazar> it might not be important
20100811 00:36:32< eleazar> the issue is fixed anyway.
20100811 00:37:30< alink> yes but I wish to improve that code, so I want to understand this weirdness ;)
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20100811 00:39:58< CIA-87> eleazar * r45489 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/water/ (coast-tropical.png reef-tile.png): fixed the minimap display of tropical water and reef.
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20100811 00:48:10< alink> eleazar: thanks, and I can now confirm that it's caused by pixels with 99% alpha, probably a bad rounding somewhere
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20100811 03:45:31< CIA-87> eleazar * r45490 /trunk/ (73 files in 3 dirs): adding 3 new cave wall varieties and a new cave floor. These are admittedly ugly stand-in graphics.
20100811 03:47:39< CIA-87> gabba * r45491 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Whiteboard: tentatively hide units on mouseover when you can plan a move to their current position because they have a planned move.
20100811 03:48:34< CIA-87> gabba * r45492 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (manager.cpp manager.hpp): Whiteboard: each scoped unit map affector now completely restores the previous none/normal/pathfind future unit map status on destruction.
20100811 03:48:35< CIA-87> gabba * r45493 /trunk/src/whiteboard/highlight_visitor.cpp: Whiteboard/highlight_visitor: hide "real" unit on mouseover when there's a destination ghost on the same hex.
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20100811 03:49:00< gabba> zookeeper: ^I think this should improve a bit the whiteboard UI area that was confusing you. Tell me what you think.
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20100811 04:35:43< CIA-87> eleazar * r45494 /trunk/data/core/ (19 files in 2 dirs): much improved mixed flower embellishment.
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20100811 06:22:30< rusty> noy, wesbot: hi!
20100811 06:23:28< shadowmaster> why wesbot?
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20100811 06:59:35< CIA-87> upthorn * r45495 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp persist_var.cpp): Allowed [get_global_variable] in start events for single player mode, but not for MP. As silene did with [message] in r45481.
20100811 07:00:49< CIA-87> upthorn * r45496 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Moved a bunch of scenario initialization back to start event instead of side 1 turn 1.
20100811 07:02:48< rusty> shadowmaster: I'm just being polite to our future overlords.
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20100811 07:05:41< shadowmaster> k
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20100811 07:11:19< alink> mmh, politeness towards bots? I wonder if it will be first implemented by humans, or if they will develop some wish to be respected
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20100811 07:13:22< alink> or maybe they don't care about respect, but since we care about it, they will force us to be polite to teach us to be submissive 
20100811 07:13:43< timotei> morning
20100811 07:13:53< alink> good morning timotei
20100811 07:15:43< alink> or maybe it's just a human reflex. For example, I sometimes say sorry to a cat or a dog when I walk on its foot.
20100811 07:15:53< timotei> :))
20100811 07:16:14 * alink always feel a bit stupid after that
20100811 07:16:16< rusty> alink: I believe there is an important second-order effect in consideration to others.
20100811 07:17:42< alink> rusty : second-order effect?
20100811 07:18:51< rusty> alink: being sociable and polite is elevating in itself (second order effect), even if the recipient doesn't appreciate it (primary effect).
20100811 07:19:24< alink> rusty: indeed, good point
20100811 07:19:49< rusty> alink: at least, that's what I tell myself when I catch myself anthropomorphizing :)
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20100811 09:06:32< zookeeper> eleazar, the new earthy cave lacks an alias
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20100811 09:17:35< zookeeper> terrain tile variations are broken in my r45455, that is only grass/grass.png gets used for grass, only forest/pine.png for the pine forest, etc...however, mountains use all three 1-hex variations, but multi-hex mountains aren't used.
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20100811 09:44:08< Ivanovic> moin
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20100811 10:02:36< Crab_> gabba: around ?
20100811 10:02:54< gabba> Crab_: still for a short while, yes
20100811 10:03:23< Crab_> gabba: I wanted to ask - will we remove delayed shroud updates before 1.9 is released ?
20100811 10:04:25< gabba> Crab_: no, unfortunately. I'm not yet confident enough that it's a compelling replacement. Much, much wider testing is needed.
20100811 10:04:34< Crab_> gabba: ok, thanks
20100811 10:04:47< Crab_> gabba: what kind of testing - usability testing ? or you think that there are C++ code bugs ?
20100811 10:05:18< gabba> Usability testing. The code itself is starting to be pretty solid.
20100811 10:05:43< silene> if you need usability testing, we should remove delayed shroud updates, so that people have an incentive to test it
20100811 10:06:23< gabba> silene: that's a kind of brute force approach, but it will probably cause more testing :P
20100811 10:07:01< Crab_> silene: maybe, firstly,  'remove' as in 'disable' instead of 'remove from source'. Not to repeat MP lobby mistakes.
20100811 10:07:02< silene> gabba: i don't want the same thing than with the multiplayer lobby to happen: it was switched only at 1.8.0 time, hence causing us to revert it in 1.8.1
20100811 10:07:27< gabba> silene, true
20100811 10:08:02< gabba> I agree with Crab_ that the option should just be forcibly turned off, and the corresponding code left untouched
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20100811 10:08:18< gabba> Then I can do it myself this week
20100811 10:08:45< gabba> (and suffer the wrath of the pitchfork mobs)
20100811 10:09:27< zookeeper> how about turning the WB on by default but still allowing it to be turned off with :wb?
20100811 10:10:17< gabba> zookeeper: hmm, that's a different question. 
20100811 10:10:43< Crab_> zookeeper: I think that, if whiteboard is a replacement for delayed shroud updates, then it should behave like DSU - be turned off by default but can be switched on from menu/hotkey.
20100811 10:10:54< gabba> personally I find the WB being on all the time annoying, I prefer planning moves from time to time with the Tab key
20100811 10:11:17< Crab_> zookeeper: it might make sense to modify the tutorial to teach whiteboarding :)
20100811 10:15:34< Crab_> gabba: It might make sense to ask noy to organize some 'testing with feedback' early
20100811 10:16:02< gabba> Crab_: How flexible would you like the arrows framework to be, regarding the symbols that compose an arrow?
20100811 10:16:09< gabba> I'll explain:
20100811 10:16:36< Crab_> gabba: that is, some beta-testing even before 1.9 release - to allow to change a thing of two in it before 1.9 release
20100811 10:17:10< Crab_> gabba: 'allow to use different colors' should be good enough for me.
20100811 10:18:03< gabba> Crab_: I'm not sure noy is the best person to ask for that, he basically told me he doesn't want to be involved in the WB anymore. He's very skeptical about its outcome/usefulness.
20100811 10:19:49< Crab_> gabba: anyone else from MP devs that you've spoken with earlier ?
20100811 10:20:33< gabba> Crab_: I could ask happygrue (haven't seen him in a while though) or jb
20100811 10:21:35< gabba> Re arrows: Sure you can change colors and even provide a "style" which is a folder with alternate graphics. But, right now I'm reworking them since I want an arrow tip that's half in one hex, half in the other. This introduces the concept of a "second to last" hex, so while I'm at it I wonder if I should allow placing stuff in arbitrary hexes... such as "begin + 3". Of course it opens a can of worms with short arrows...
20100811 10:22:49< Crab_> gabba: basically, there's a risk that there's some 'overlooked' annoying thing with the whiteboard that is *very* easy to fix with 1-2 lines of c++ changes - it would not be good if 1.9 would be contain such issues.
20100811 10:23:28< Crab_> gabba: so, it would be really good if there's some "blackbox testing" before 1.9
20100811 10:24:44< Crab_> gabba: also about arrows, it would be extra cool if the speed of the 'arrow animation while it's drawn' could be controlled
20100811 10:25:23< gabba> Crab_: yup. Actually such testing should have begun two weeks ago, if I wanted to have more time to fix bugs. "One... more... feature...."
20100811 10:25:31< Crab_> :)
20100811 10:25:53< gabba> Crab_: you mean an arrow that's progressively drawn?
20100811 10:26:15< Crab_> gabba: yes
20100811 10:26:40< zookeeper> Crab_, yeah, i'm working on a new tutorial (although slower than i expected...) and it'll need to eventually teach the WB, which is going to be pretty...challenging
20100811 10:27:07< gabba> Crab_: he he, I have more urgent things to attend to (even though I wouldn't be the one to draw the animations I guess...)
20100811 10:27:47< Crab_> gabba: ok. at least, the time for the arrows to stay drawn - can it be controlled - ?
20100811 10:28:07< silene> zookeeper: the terrain issues are caused by the terrain macros not putting quotes around generated filenames, so they tend to be noisy once they reach the engine; i will fix it
20100811 10:28:39< Crab_> zookeeper: ok. ping me if there's any AI-related stuff I can write for the tutorial
20100811 10:29:00< gabba> Crab_: deleting the arrow object should be enough to stop drawing it at the time of your choice?
20100811 10:29:55< Crab_> gabba: well, I love the 'fire&forget' approach, as with floating labels. but I guess that I'll be able to work with manual create/delete, too.
20100811 10:30:13< Crab_> gabba: so, let it be manual create/delete.
20100811 10:30:50< gabba> Crab_: ok, I see what you're talking about. Floating labels even fade out.
20100811 10:31:14< Crab_> gabba: but, don't bother if there are more important issues at hand
20100811 10:31:22< gabba> don't get me wrong I'd love to implement it, but ^
20100811 10:31:34< Crab_> gabba: most of the things I'm thinking about will work fine with manual create/delete.
20100811 10:33:27< zookeeper> Crab_, sure. there's not much need just yet, and i'm trying to make the AI actions less predetermined anyway
20100811 10:35:55< zookeeper> silene, hmm, ok.
20100811 10:35:57< Crab_> zookeeper: ok. I want to add some more types of [goal]s for the AI before 1.9, to allow more high-level ways to alter the ai behavior without 'predetermining' the moves
20100811 10:36:15< zookeeper> the interesting part is that i played several scenarios of EI before i started noticing that the terrain repetition :P
20100811 10:36:25< gabba> 'night all
20100811 10:36:34< zookeeper> -that
20100811 10:36:35< Crab_> gabba: night :)
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20100811 10:41:26< silene> zookeeper: i didn't notice it either; if our artists knew that...
20100811 10:42:48< zookeeper> i find it rather disturbing that i didn't notice it sooner...
20100811 10:43:51< zookeeper> ah, phew. nevermind, i actually played the first couple of scenarios with the previous build before switching.
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20100811 10:49:12< silene> i don't understand why the bug happens only for numbers and not other things though
20100811 11:05:03< CIA-87> silene * r45497 /trunk/src/serialization/tokenizer.cpp: Fixed unquoted string tokens not spanning embedded comments.
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20100811 11:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 138 bugs, 286 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100811 11:40:15< timotei> bavk
20100811 11:40:17< timotei> back
20100811 11:40:30< fendrin> hi timotei
20100811 11:40:37< timotei> hi fendrin 
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20100811 11:49:05< Upthorn> I thought I changed my quit message to something non-random.
20100811 11:49:41< Upthorn> I guess my desktop didn't get the benefit of that.
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20100811 12:23:16< CIA-87> eleazar * r45498 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: fixed alias of new earthy cave floor terrain, Uue.
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20100811 13:30:23< fendrin> zookeeper: Do you know how to code a simple [have_unit] that is true if side2 + side3 amount of units is > 3*(side4+side1) ?
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20100811 13:31:32< zookeeper> fendrin, uh, no, i don't
20100811 13:31:49< zookeeper> you need formula or lua for that anyway
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20100811 14:40:10< Upthorn> fendrin: I see a way to do it without lua, but it would include the recall lists in the unit count
20100811 14:40:42< Upthorn> I see a way to do it that doesn't include the recall lists, but it no longer qualifies as simple.
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20100811 14:41:55< fendrin> Upthorn: Thanks, but it is not important. I would have used it when simple. But so I go for a filter that filters that one side is below a constant and the other team above another. That will be good enough for the scenario's need. 
20100811 14:42:24< fendrin> Damn, my English is very bad at the moment.
20100811 14:42:55< timotei> fendrin: hey, I'll let the grammar how it's now. it drives me crazy
20100811 14:43:02< timotei> fendrin: I'd better focus on 'more important' stuff
20100811 14:43:16< timotei> fendrin: I'll eat, and then we'll talk about the custom project that has the campaigns and stuff
20100811 14:43:27< fendrin> timotei: That is okay.
20100811 14:43:38< timotei> fendrin: maybe I'm not so good at this stuff
20100811 14:43:49< timotei> fendrin: but whateveer... we'll make it in the end
20100811 14:44:05< timotei> I'm gonna test the 2 latest gramamrs to see who's better
20100811 14:46:22< fendrin> timotei: I think the first step will be that a formal description of the grammar needs to go to the dev-ml. After it is finalized one can think about translating into the eclipse syntax.
20100811 14:46:43< timotei> fendrin: well, we're not 'reinventing' it, right?
20100811 14:47:10< timotei> fendrin: formal description, I've done at lot, but the problem comes implementing it:(
20100811 14:48:19< fendrin> timotei: Hmmm, no. Maybe there are some parts where changing the way wml works would be a benefit for the whole project. But I can't believe that it will come to a major overhaul. The grammar will need to fit wml, not wml to a better grammar.
20100811 14:49:47< fendrin> timotei: Writing a parser from a specification is not hard. It can even be automated.
20100811 14:49:55< elias> WML grammar (after preprocessing) is quite simple anyway
20100811 14:50:05< timotei> let's talk after I finish eating ;)
20100811 14:50:05< Upthorn> fendrin: my "simple" idea was http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/BZRw6N1K
20100811 14:50:06< timotei> brb
20100811 14:52:55< fendrin> elias: Right, it's not that hard. But I must admit that I didn't get the eclipse framework for the grammar at the first spot as well.
20100811 14:52:57< Crab_> Upthorn: I do something similar in WML in LoW 3, using SUFs ([store_unit] tags) to get units and count them
20100811 14:55:20< Upthorn> if sides 1 and 4 do not have recall lists, you could get away with http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/cXt6v4BW and have it actually work properly
20100811 14:56:11< fendrin> Upthorn, Crab_: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/cghCGhnm
20100811 14:57:04< Crab_> fendrin: you can also use the lua 'side power' formula, (afair, it was somewhere in the test scenario)
20100811 14:58:31< Upthorn> fendrin: first scenario in Heir to the Throne?
20100811 15:00:03< fendrin> Upthorn: You want to know for which scenario the code is for?
20100811 15:00:26< Upthorn> fendrin: sure
20100811 15:00:35< timotei> ok. back
20100811 15:00:54< fendrin> Upthorn: It's LoW 7 "Elves' last stand".
20100811 15:01:23< Upthorn> 4-7 are orcs?
20100811 15:01:37< fendrin> Upthorn: orcs and trolls.
20100811 15:01:52< Upthorn> and do they have recall lists?
20100811 15:01:53< fendrin> One troll, rest orcs.
20100811 15:02:17 * Rhonda feels ignored by Sirp and noy  :(
20100811 15:02:18< fendrin> Upthorn: The orcs not. But all 3 elves.
20100811 15:02:43< fendrin> Rhonda: I had contact to noy yesterday. He seems to be around.
20100811 15:04:05< fendrin> Upthorn: The 3 elves have, the orc sides not.
20100811 15:04:05< Rhonda> Yes, but that doesn't help the ignorance. :/
20100811 15:04:31< timotei> Rhonda: emailing them?
20100811 15:04:36< fendrin> Rhonda: May I ask what you need?
20100811 15:05:05< Upthorn> fendrin: I see, I believe I have a solution that can work with that.
20100811 15:05:23< Rhonda> fendrin: Their attention. :)
20100811 15:05:29< silene> fendrin: why do you need to use [have_unit] there? you could just check the value of a variable
20100811 15:06:44< fendrin> silene: I always prefer filtering wml to variable wml. variable wml is more likely to be buggy in my opinion. 
20100811 15:07:33< fendrin> timotei: Can we start discussing the grammar thing? 
20100811 15:08:06< Upthorn> fendrin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/Zr2g5rUa this is what I get. I'm not quite sure if the variable can be used in a range that way, though
20100811 15:08:10< fendrin> silene: I have found a lua error leading to a segfault in trunk. Are you interested?
20100811 15:08:29< timotei> fendrin: well, if you really want... I wish we do the other things. and let grammar a bit later. I'm posting on xtext forums to see if I can make my own parser so not using the gramamr, though I don't know
20100811 15:08:32< silene> fendrin: sure
20100811 15:09:25< fendrin> timotei: Okay, fine. Let's skip it for now.
20100811 15:09:49< timotei> fendrin: I usually ... do other things when something is not working, and trying again after a time
20100811 15:10:13< timotei> fendrin: one sec
20100811 15:10:24< timotei> fendrin: I'm trying something at the grammar
20100811 15:11:02< loonycyborg> Rhonda: Sirp is active on #frogatto . Bug him there :P
20100811 15:13:56< CIA-87> fendrin * r45499 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/07_Elves_last_stand.cfg: Broke LoW scenario 7 to give silene a testcase.
20100811 15:14:22< silene> fendrin: what do i need to do?
20100811 15:14:26< fendrin> silene: ^ Just jump to LoW 7 and click throgh or skip the dialogue.
20100811 15:20:46< silene> fendrin: the segfault doesn't happen in the lua code, but i will still take a look
20100811 15:22:55< fendrin> silene: Is it okay if I fix LoW again and you just don't fetch the new version of that file as long as looking?
20100811 15:23:42< silene> yes
20100811 15:28:19< fendrin> I woul like to hear opinions about a feature that I plan to implement in LoW.
20100811 15:29:06< fendrin> You my know that Kalenz and Cleodil are in love with each other, at least at the middle of the campaign already.
20100811 15:30:07< fendrin> Many players complained that the love story comes in as some kind of tamato surprise since it is mostly developed in 2 or 3 story only scenarios.
20100811 15:30:52< fendrin> It's not that easy to develop a believable love story because their is not much conflict between Cleodil and Kalenz. 
20100811 15:31:44< fendrin> I would like to define some more speech ingame during gameplay, bound to certain events.
20100811 15:32:51< fendrin> Most of those events make only sense when Kalenz and Cleodil are fighting in the near of each other but usually the player has no cause to play this way, so he may never trigger the events.
20100811 15:33:33< fendrin> That is why I played with the thought to give the player a real gameplay advancement if they fight along side.
20100811 15:33:49< fendrin> Something like leadership but only between those two characters.
20100811 15:33:59< fendrin> What do you think?
20100811 15:34:10< Upthorn> I like the idea.
20100811 15:34:28< Upthorn> It is nice when the story actually has some impact on gameplay
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20100811 15:37:27< zookeeper> make kalenz get double healing from her? :P
20100811 15:38:06< zookeeper> i guess that'd seem more like an immature joke than anything else though :p
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20100811 15:41:22< fendrin> zookeeper: The whole idea is an immature joke? Or only the double healing?
20100811 15:43:59< Crab_> fendrin: I would also like (for low 7), give the player a choice of 'where Olurf should appear'. what do you think ?
20100811 15:45:35< Crab_> fendrin: and I like the 'double healing' idea, especially because it'll allow the player to use Kalenz in battle more, not make him sit in the last ranks and grab occasional kills.
20100811 15:47:15< fendrin> Crab_: Hmmm, that would make Olurf much more useful to the player. But that is not way santi wanted the story to be. The late entry of Olurf at turn 14 and at a place that is most likely far away from the front line was deliberately choosen to give Landar a cause to rant about.
20100811 15:47:42< Crab_> fendrin: well, 'late entry' is still late entry.
20100811 15:48:03< fendrin> Crab_: How would you implement it?
20100811 15:48:05< Crab_> and elves die because the dwarves are so slow..
20100811 15:48:23< fendrin> Some predefined starting points, one to choose from?
20100811 15:48:33< fendrin> Or clicking a hex and selecting that way?
20100811 15:48:39< Crab_> fendrin: predefined.
20100811 15:49:12< fendrin> Crab_: We can think about that. I guess we can find some reasonable starting points that make sense.
20100811 15:49:15< Crab_> fendrin: dialogue like 'Kalenz: I'll send a message to the dwarves, telling them where they should be. Landar: stupid dwarves, they should have been here already. Kalenz: anyway.. (dialog opens, player can select one of pre-defined locations)
20100811 15:49:32< Crab_> fendrin: 'ambush point behind each orc/troll leader'
20100811 15:49:58< Crab_> fendrin: it'll allow to take one of the leaders out, and hold the new keep (olurf would be able to recruit from it)
20100811 15:51:07< Crab_> fendrin: and let this dialog happen on turn 2 (to allow the player to take a look at the map)
20100811 15:51:29< zookeeper> fendrin, the double healing
20100811 15:51:39< Crab_> fendrin: and from dialogue it should be clear that dwarves are generally late :)
20100811 15:51:53< Crab_> fendrin: so, no `tomato surprises` at all
20100811 15:51:53< zookeeper> but sure, if you think it works, go ahead
20100811 15:53:58< fendrin> Crab_: The double healing can be tested. We can ask the players if they like it.
20100811 15:54:42< zookeeper> note that IIRC you need an event hack for that because of the regular healing cap
20100811 15:54:42< fendrin> Crab_: But I am not sure about variable expansion when it comes to starting positions. We may need to hack something with teleporting Olurf.
20100811 15:55:07< Crab_> fendrin: why 'teleporting' ?
20100811 15:55:34< Crab_> fendrin: just use [event][unit] tags to spawn him and his retinue
20100811 15:56:07< Crab_> fendrin: he'll be placed at the nearest free hex to the one we specified, his retinue will be placed next to him, on any free hexes.
20100811 15:56:10< fendrin> Crab_: Right, I can try that.
20100811 15:56:24< Crab_> fendrin: placement=map for him, placement=leader for other units
20100811 15:56:56< fendrin> zookeeper: I would like to hack the healing of Cleodil and go without events. I think that can be done somehow.
20100811 15:57:09< Crab_> fendrin: if we want to, after he gets the keep, we can trigger autorecall of his former recall list.
20100811 15:57:23< Crab_> fendrin: (adding an 'get olurf to keep' as an objective to let the player know about it)
20100811 15:57:31< fendrin> Crab_: We will do that. It sounds like a good idea.
20100811 15:57:44< Crab_> fendrin: it will be even better when per-leader recall/recruit is implemented
20100811 15:58:55< fendrin> Crab_: Yeah, that would be great. Do you already have thought about how to implement it?
20100811 15:59:29< Crab_> fendrin: yes,a  bit. but it'll take some time.
20100811 15:59:39< Crab_> fendrin: I was thinking about giving each leader a 'recall filter' and a 'recruit filter'
20100811 15:59:56< Crab_> fendrin: and just filtering units that can be recruited/recalling depending on location
20100811 16:00:41< fendrin> Crab_: So one can define that a unit is able to recruit skeletons when it is in a graveyard for example?
20100811 16:01:36< Crab_> fendrin: well, recruiting takes place on keep on castle tiles. but yes, it can be easily made 'recruit depending on where you are'
20100811 16:02:27< Crab_> fendrin: part of it (with 1 leader) can be already done in WML, of course
20100811 16:02:46< Crab_> fendrin: and it'll require extra 'graveyard castle and keep' graphics
20100811 16:03:01< Crab_> fendrin: e.g. some tombstones for castle and some kind of altar for the keep :)
20100811 16:03:21< fendrin> Crab_: You want to filter from the current sides recruit list?
20100811 16:03:27< Crab_> fendrin: yes
20100811 16:03:33< fendrin> Sounds fine.
20100811 16:03:47< Crab_> fendrin: from current side recall and recruit lists. it's easier that way (many old things work as they do now)
20100811 16:04:10< fendrin> Right, it sounds pretty much downwards compatible.
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20100811 16:32:41< CIA-87> fendrin * r45500 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/07_Elves_last_stand.cfg: LoW 7: Fixed an event that triggers the orcish forces to flee too shorten the end phase of the scenario.
20100811 16:35:22< Crab_> fendrin: btw, if you end the scenario when the orcs are 'nearly defeated', some players would get very annoyed because they don't get the easy XP from the last outnumbered orcs :)
20100811 16:35:30< Crab_> fendrin: is that intended ?
20100811 16:36:10< fendrin> Crab_: Yes, it is. It's fine to reduce some xp farming at that time.
20100811 16:36:17< Crab_> fendrin: ok
20100811 16:36:40< Crab_> especially because the veterans are split away from player after that scenario )
20100811 16:38:14< fendrin> Crab_: Right, but that delays the problem only. At scenario 14 when the player gets them back the recall list is quite crowded.
20100811 16:38:30< Crab_> fendrin: well, scenario 14 is quite crowded :)
20100811 16:38:50< fendrin> Crab_: Right, but not that much any more. I have reduced the orcs gold a lot.
20100811 16:39:29< fendrin> Crab_: The problem is that the player get's all his lvl3 units back at once and the are on the field for free at some time.
20100811 16:40:55< fendrin> Crab_: Anyway, most players are bored from the endgames when there is not much interesting tactic is to apply. Especially on such a huge map were the battle is won since ages but there are still 30+ units to kill. Or leaders to be slaughtered miles away.
20100811 16:43:39< Crab_> fendrin: some games do it 'the orcs are routed and flee in fear. would you like to end scenario now ? yes, let them run / let me kill them all! '
20100811 16:44:09< Crab_> to please both players who love to kill enemies down to the last orc and those who are bored with endgames
20100811 16:45:41< fendrin> I really would like to limit the amount of leveled units available to the player after seven. It's horrible to balance if we implement that code branch. We would need to balance the scenarios further on depending on how the player decided.
20100811 16:46:15< Crab_> well, players play very differently anyway
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20100811 16:46:40< Crab_> player who loads after each L2+ loss would definitely have a bigger army than the player who lives on with L3 losses.
20100811 16:47:34< Crab_> I think that the solution might be 'let the player take N best units into next arc, where N depends on difficulty level'
20100811 16:47:35< fendrin> Right, but we just balance for a non loader. The goal is to make the non loader happy. 
20100811 16:48:44< fendrin> And which unit is the best? That would need a selection tool for the player to decide on.
20100811 16:48:50< Crab_> fendrin: yes, a selection tool
20100811 16:48:55< Crab_> fendrin: or a scenario-based selection
20100811 16:49:01< Crab_> e.g. "you have N turns to recall"
20100811 16:50:08< Crab_> for example, we can try to balance cliffs of thoria with 'you have 1 turn to recall'
20100811 16:52:30< Crab_> ( I've got to leave, will read the logs )
20100811 16:52:31< zookeeper> rather just have them be able to recall X units max, or maybe X levels of units max
20100811 16:52:43< Crab_> zookeeper: yes, that's possible, too.
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20100811 17:05:09< timotei> fendrin: I'm gonna cry
20100811 17:05:26< fendrin> timotei: :-)
20100811 17:05:46< fendrin> timotei: Don't waste more time on the grammar now. We will find a solution later.
20100811 17:09:38< timotei> fendrin: happinness crying :P
20100811 17:10:49< timotei> fendrin: I managed to ... find some ways of doing a thing, and it works
20100811 17:10:57< timotei> fendrin: need to handle some more semantics
20100811 17:11:09< fendrin> timotei: Is it commited, I can have a look.
20100811 17:11:10< timotei> fendrin: for example, with current grammar I get just 26 errors on AOI
20100811 17:11:17< timotei> not commited yet
20100811 17:11:19< timotei> should i?
20100811 17:11:29< fendrin> If it is better than current, why not.
20100811 17:12:05< timotei> one sec, to make a comparison
20100811 17:15:54 * zookeeper is going to rewrite EI:captured in a peculiar way
20100811 17:16:43< zookeeper> i'll make gweddry, dacyn and owaec be captured and give the player a small random group of recalls to use to free them
20100811 17:17:31< zookeeper> pretty common in games in general, but i don't recall any wesnoth scenario where the player temporarily assumes control of a minor character...
20100811 17:18:16< anonymissimus> silene: is it ok to add local variables only useful for a few functions (the alternative is using a parameter) in the core lua files
20100811 17:19:04< silene> anonymissimus: are all the functions subfunctions of a single one?
20100811 17:19:29< silene> i mean, are they called by only one function?
20100811 17:19:35< anonymissimus> yes
20100811 17:20:00< silene> then you can define them inside this function, and you can use a local variable of this function instead of a global local variable
20100811 17:20:25< anonymissimus> but that makes the function *HUGE*
20100811 17:20:42< anonymissimus> I prefer not needing to scroll :P
20100811 17:20:51< anonymissimus> to see a whole function
20100811 17:21:32< silene> anonymissimus: the only thing you are missing from the function is its header, everything else should be left unchanged
20100811 17:24:14< silene> anonymissimus: the reason to worry about global variables is the case where the function can be called twice at the same time (e.g. if the function executes wml code); if it is not your case, then you can use a global variable (a local one)
20100811 17:25:02< anonymissimus> I guess this is a design principle to remember :P
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20100811 17:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 137 bugs, 286 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100811 17:29:38< zookeeper> silene, btw, i'm going to try to expand the objectives dialog so that the turn limit (current and max) gets displayed alongside the usual "Turns run out" objective.
20100811 17:30:23< zookeeper> i'm not entirely sure about how to do it yet. i can't just check if the description equals "Turns run out", and everything else requires some kind of a change to every [objectives] tag using that objective...
20100811 17:31:00< zookeeper> so i guess i could just display it separately from that objective, although it's not ideal
20100811 17:32:02< silene> zookeeper: changing every [objectives] is the cleanest way, though a bit tedious i agree
20100811 17:32:21< silene> fendrin: your bug is some kind of duplicate of #16171
20100811 17:32:43< silene> and #16262
20100811 17:32:49< zookeeper> wait. i can check the untranslated string, can't i?
20100811 17:33:18< silene> zookeeper: not really
20100811 17:33:42< silene> it somehow works in wml, but one day or another it will break
20100811 17:34:06< zookeeper> right. i guess it's the tedious route, then...
20100811 17:39:27< CIA-87> timotei * r45501 /trunk/utils/java/eclipse_plugin/src/wesnoth_eclipse_plugin/wizards/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
20100811 17:39:28< CIA-87> eclipse plugin: fix creation of project when it's
20100811 17:39:29< CIA-87> made in current workspace
20100811 17:39:31< CIA-87> timotei * r45502 /trunk/utils/java/ (46 files in 11 dirs): eclipse plugin: update the grammar
20100811 17:39:33< timotei> fendrin: ^
20100811 17:39:56< fendrin> timotei: Thank you, I will try it out now.
20100811 17:41:48< silene> fendrin: hmm... in fact, your bug is even stranger than i expected; you are changing the objectives just before moving a unit in wml, which causes a check for endlevel, which causes a segfault later in the animation code
20100811 17:42:11< CIA-87> esr * r45503 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/ (3 files): Dialog polish for LoW.
20100811 17:43:39< CIA-87> esr * r45504 /trunk/data/campaigns/Dead_Water/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Regularize some hyphenation.
20100811 17:44:06< fendrin> silene: The bug is a very borderline one. Most likely one will never want to finish a scenario right at that time. I just thought that a segfault was inappropriate while executing invalid wml. 
20100811 17:45:02< silene> fendrin: a segfault is never appropriate; and worse, it could happen in meaningful wml
20100811 17:45:57< fendrin> silene: Still the bug is not a big problem. It seems that everything works fine when the code is executed at the right time.
20100811 17:46:21< fendrin> silene: So it doesn't need to have the highest priority if nothing else fails badly.
20100811 17:47:08< CIA-87> fendrin * r45505 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/06_Acquaintance_in_Need.cfg: LoW 06: Switched some of the lines from Kalenz to Cleodil.
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20100811 17:50:23< timotei> fendrin: ok, enough with grammar today
20100811 17:50:31< fendrin> :-)
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20100811 17:52:06< fendrin> timotei: There is still a compile error in latest trunk.
20100811 17:52:12< timotei> fendrin: yes. spotted it
20100811 17:52:26< timotei> oh fuck it
20100811 17:52:55< timotei> I forgot about side effects
20100811 17:52:59< timotei> need to revert it
20100811 17:53:14< timotei> I'll revert the latest 2 updates,
20100811 17:53:50< timotei> it seems higlighting doesn't work anymore
20100811 17:56:05< billynux> I'm off for a bit
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20100811 18:01:18< timotei> fendrin: ok, let's talk about the campaign project thingy
20100811 18:01:32< CIA-87> timotei * r45506 /trunk/utils/java/ (46 files in 11 dirs): 
20100811 18:01:32< CIA-87> Revert "eclipse plugin: update the grammar"
20100811 18:01:32< CIA-87> This reverts commit 11318a793664fec4f563bce1311e23af03a78aee.
20100811 18:02:07< CIA-87> timotei * r45507 /trunk/utils/java/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
20100811 18:02:07< CIA-87> Revert "eclipse plugin: update entity names to match the latest grammar"
20100811 18:02:07< CIA-87> This reverts commit f73ea6aba20e69faa198c0be899f03ca63e9fe0f.
20100811 18:02:22< timotei> fendrin: so, how we are doing it? support starting now multiple versions? or just before we start to release next version like 1.10?
20100811 18:02:24< CIA-87> timotei * r45508 /trunk/ (50 files in 13 dirs): 
20100811 18:02:25< CIA-87> Revert "eclipse plugin: update the grammar"
20100811 18:02:25< CIA-87> This reverts commit 2896a1703358765e277f1fc90fe647b36adf41f2.
20100811 18:03:10< fendrin> timotei: It's not only about multiple versions but more about multiple installation places.
20100811 18:03:30< timotei> fendrin: oh, you have a point
20100811 18:03:45< timotei> well ok, we'll talk not about version but multiple installs
20100811 18:04:06< timotei> how we let the user decide what 'version' a project is for example?
20100811 18:04:14< timotei> what 'install'*
20100811 18:04:49< fendrin> We suggest to name it like the binary name. Wesnoth-1.9 for example. 
20100811 18:05:04< fendrin> But that will be a field where the user can put any string he wants.
20100811 18:05:50< fendrin> If there is already a workspace/project/installation named the same way, just add a "_1" then "_2" and so on.
20100811 18:06:11< fendrin> To the proposal.
20100811 18:06:32< timotei> ok, so, to get started from ground
20100811 18:06:36< timotei> in the preferences dialog
20100811 18:06:41< fendrin> Don't accept the same name for multiple workspace/project/installation.
20100811 18:06:42< timotei> we have the page that manages the 'installations'
20100811 18:06:47< timotei> add/remove
20100811 18:06:58< CIA-87> silene * r45509 /trunk/src/serialization/preprocessor.cpp: 
20100811 18:06:59< CIA-87> Moved preprocessing logic from the automaton to the token stack handler.
20100811 18:07:00< CIA-87> Fixed missing metadata for macro arguments that are neither quoted nor parenthesized.
20100811 18:07:00< CIA-87> Avoided outputting metadata for inlined quoted strings.
20100811 18:07:01< CIA-87> silene * r45510 /trunk/src/ (3 files): 
20100811 18:07:01< CIA-87> Fixed segfault in the animation code caused by a triggered level end required just before moving a unit with WML code after having changed the objectives.
20100811 18:07:02< CIA-87> Objective display has been moved out of the animation code and into a
20100811 18:07:03< CIA-87> randomly-chosen function. The target function is probably not the most sensible
20100811 18:07:04< CIA-87> choice, but the upside is that it should be called at all the important times.
20100811 18:07:05< timotei> actually, that will be on the paths page, right?
20100811 18:07:36< silene> fendrin: ^
20100811 18:07:38< fendrin> I think that work on an installation should always keep a single project. So adding a new campaign does only create subfolders but not create a new "project".
20100811 18:08:11< fendrin> silene: Thank you :-)
20100811 18:09:49< timotei> well, working on separate 'addons' to say, in the same project but different subdirs, will just make my job harder
20100811 18:09:55< timotei> and it's a bit weird at the same time
20100811 18:10:06< fendrin> timotei: I think it is best to move the paths page from the general preferences into the project specific one, like the classpathes in a java project a kept local.
20100811 18:10:21< fendrin> s/a/is
20100811 18:10:22< timotei> fendrin: good point
20100811 18:10:31< timotei> so... the project will use it's specified path?
20100811 18:10:33< CIA-87> esr * r45511 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/ (10_Cliffs_of_Thoria.cfg 14_Human_Alliance.cfg): Foreshadow Kalenz and Cledil's romance scene a bit more.
20100811 18:10:59< fendrin> timotei: Right.
20100811 18:11:23< timotei> hmm
20100811 18:11:36< fendrin> timotei: You will only have a single wesnoth related create Project dialogue left, used for importing an installation. That will also require the path setup.
20100811 18:11:38< timotei> then the project will have a 'special' subfolder that links to data/core
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20100811 18:15:19< timotei> let's define the 'installation': working directory and executable. is that enough?
20100811 18:15:27< fendrin> timotei: Right, one that just displays the file system. And one that contains "grouped resources" like units, terrains and so on.
20100811 18:15:29< timotei> useraddons path should be part of that?
20100811 18:15:50< CIA-87> esr * r45512 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/06_Acquaintance_in_Need.cfg: Clean up some dialog TODOs.
20100811 18:15:56< fendrin> timotei: Yes, we have different .wesnoth folders for each installation.
20100811 18:16:24< fendrin> timotei: And different wmltools for each installation as well.
20100811 18:16:37< timotei> fendrin: that is inffered from the working dir, I hope:P
20100811 18:17:30< fendrin> timotei: What exactly is the "working dir"?
20100811 18:17:47< timotei> the dir that contains the data directory
20100811 18:18:10< timotei> so the parrent ofthe data dir
20100811 18:19:38< fendrin> timotei: Right, you can suggest the wmltools path from the working dir. But don't make it fixed please.
20100811 18:19:48< timotei> I won't
20100811 18:20:06< timotei> so, we are moving the paths selection page to be project specific
20100811 18:20:16< timotei> next issue, how we handle newly creating project?
20100811 18:21:04< fendrin> If the plugin is started and there is no wesnoth installation present as project you can open the new wesnoth project dialog automaticaly since there is nothing to do in the plugin without a installation
20100811 18:22:30< timotei> please remember, I have no means to control the plugin activation
20100811 18:22:40< timotei> that mean, it will start only! if a feature from it is used...
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20100811 18:28:30< CIA-87> esr * r45513 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/07_Elves_last_stand.cfg: Fix an event bug (caight by wmllint).
20100811 18:29:09< CIA-87> esr * r45514 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/07_Elves_last_stand.cfg: Add needed translation markup.
20100811 18:29:13< timotei> fendrin: so... we'll must use the setup workspace thing
20100811 18:29:24< timotei> fendrin: how will the user manage and use already existing installations?
20100811 18:32:27< fendrin> timotei: I guess there is no extra code needed. Like eclipse changes the context to the current active project (like classpaths) we will change the context from the current active wesnoth project.
20100811 18:33:04< CIA-87> esr * r45515 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/ (4 files): Spelling and markup fixes.
20100811 18:34:07< timotei> fendrin: well, if we go that way, than we could do this:
20100811 18:34:14< timotei> let the current system, but work as the default
20100811 18:34:34< timotei> the user can override defaults for a project
20100811 18:34:37< timotei> by setting them
20100811 18:34:41< timotei> is that good enough?
20100811 18:37:27< timotei> fendrin: ^
20100811 18:37:28 * crimson_penguin just had a thought
20100811 18:37:41< timotei> crimson_penguin: regarding the plugin?:P
20100811 18:37:45< crimson_penguin> nope
20100811 18:38:20< crimson_penguin> perhaps on Mac there could be no language selection dialog, and instead it could use the system language selection; I think the way that works is it defaults to your system language, but you can get info on the app and there's a dropdown to change it
20100811 18:40:07< fendrin> timotei: I don't get your plan in full detail.
20100811 18:40:41< timotei> fendrin: we'll. we just add to what's available now, the possiblity to override the current paths, with ones specified by the user:)
20100811 18:40:48< timotei> like is done for some seetings
20100811 18:41:10< timotei> fendrin: just right click on a java proj-> Validation
20100811 18:41:20< timotei> there is the Enable project specific settings
20100811 18:41:57< fendrin> timotei: Please give me some minutes.
20100811 18:42:02< timotei> fendrin: ok
20100811 18:42:25< timotei> I'm going to use schema descriptoin for specifying details for tags;)
20100811 18:51:54< CIA-87> esr * r45516 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: [sound_frame] islegal beneath [if].
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20100811 18:57:31< fendrin> timotei: back
20100811 18:57:50< fendrin> timotei: So you want a global setting and derived project specific ones?
20100811 18:58:01< timotei> fendrin: I think that's a better option
20100811 18:58:11< timotei> fendrin: what do you see a fall in that?
20100811 18:58:18< timotei> fendrin: I mean, what downsides you see
20100811 18:58:45< fendrin> timotei: I think you should leave the activation of the project specific settings out. 
20100811 18:59:13< fendrin> Just give every project the "project preferences" with the set of config options. 
20100811 18:59:51< fendrin> You can take the defaults from the global settings when creating a new project.
20100811 19:01:20< fendrin> But in general I think that this will confuse the user. It is fine to have general settings that are going to be used by every java project which can be overwritten local because it makes sense to avoid the need to set the same classpath for every project from scratch for example.
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20100811 19:01:33< timotei> yes
20100811 19:01:36< fendrin> But I can't think that it is cool to have this for the wesnoth plugin.
20100811 19:01:52< timotei> I don't get it? But I can't think that it is cool to have this for the wesnoth plugin.
20100811 19:02:18< fendrin> It makes creating and using a second installation quite difficult. Most users will end in having multiple projects pointing to the same default installation.
20100811 19:02:52< fendrin> They will come to the conclusion that the plugin only supports a single installation if they don't read the manual carefully.
20100811 19:03:06< timotei> fendrin: we can ensure the user will know that.
20100811 19:03:11< timotei> we can do this:
20100811 19:03:18< timotei> when the project creates the project
20100811 19:03:28< timotei> the next page (which can't be skipped until chosen something)
20100811 19:03:43< timotei> or not
20100811 19:04:10< timotei> well, then I'd say to those users: RTFM!
20100811 19:04:11< timotei> :P
20100811 19:04:19< fendrin> hmmm.
20100811 19:04:22< timotei> I mean come on, the manual won't be so long, at most 5 pages?
20100811 19:04:26< timotei> or it depends
20100811 19:04:26< fendrin> Okay then the workflow is like:
20100811 19:04:36< fendrin> Install the plugin, start it.
20100811 19:04:36< timotei> we could make the user 'save' current paths
20100811 19:05:06< fendrin> The new plugin will discover it's first start and that there is neither a global config nor a project.
20100811 19:05:43< fendrin> The global config dialog opens automatically asking for the values and creating a first project.
20100811 19:06:45< fendrin> If the player wants to use another installation he calls the new wesnoth project/installation dialog which presents the global config as defaults that can or must be adjusted.
20100811 19:07:12< fendrin> There is no "activate project specific" menu entry anymore, right?
20100811 19:07:43< timotei> hmm
20100811 19:08:04< timotei> 1 and 2 are ok
20100811 19:08:28< timotei> for 3, is he calling a new wesnoth project for creating a new addon?
20100811 19:08:33< timotei> or just to set some installations?
20100811 19:09:18< timotei> well
20100811 19:09:25< timotei> it's smething like: the user create a new project
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20100811 19:09:37< fendrin> timotei: If the player calls the "create new campaign/addon" wizard there won't be any new project. It just looks which project is the current context and creates the campaign in its addon directory.
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20100811 19:10:42< fendrin> The only dialog that is able to create a new "Project" (in the way the word is meant by the eclipse language) is the "New Wesnoth Installation" dialog.
20100811 19:10:58< timotei> hmm
20100811 19:11:13< timotei> we should have decided this at start... 
20100811 19:11:31< fendrin> timotei: Yes I know. That is my fault. I misguided you on this.
20100811 19:11:31< timotei> the thing I'm most afraid, is having to rewrite big parts of code to handle the 'non-prooject' thing
20100811 19:11:47< timotei> currently
20100811 19:11:47< timotei> for me
20100811 19:11:52< timotei> a project is a campaign/addon
20100811 19:12:00< timotei> that can be placed ANYWHERE
20100811 19:12:09< timotei> since the build.xml will do the job, copying it to addons/data/
20100811 19:12:23< timotei> (I'm gonna do a way of not using build.xml in case we develop straight in the data/ ;)
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20100811 19:13:17< timotei> fendrin: could you try see how you're using the working sets?
20100811 19:13:40< timotei> fendrin: in the way, that seeing how it's done, to see if it looks good enough
20100811 19:13:45< timotei> for me it seems ok
20100811 19:13:50< timotei> having a single 'installation active'
20100811 19:13:52< timotei> would be that
20100811 19:14:02< timotei> although a bit awkward
20100811 19:14:09< fendrin> timotei: Sorry I don't get what you are asking.
20100811 19:14:24< CIA-87> esr * r45517 /trunk/data/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Fixups for various small wmllint/wmlscope errors.
20100811 19:15:05< timotei> fendrin: I want you to 'practice' the working set stuff to see how's going
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20100811 19:15:30< timotei> fendrin: do you have more than 2-3 projects in your workspace?
20100811 19:15:37< boucman> hey all
20100811 19:15:42< timotei> hi Bocom 
20100811 19:15:43< fendrin> timotei: Okay, what is the "working set"?
20100811 19:15:45< timotei> hi boucman 
20100811 19:16:00< timotei> fendrin: the working set, technically, is just 'showing' some selected projects
20100811 19:16:11< timotei> fendrin: so basically, it could be an installation
20100811 19:16:25< timotei> fendrin: a working set has a name, and projects 'attached'
20100811 19:16:36< timotei> when that working set is selected, just the attached projects are shown
20100811 19:16:58< fendrin> timotei: I have one for 1.8 latest release, one for 1.8 trunk one for 1.9 trunk and some more for different branches.
20100811 19:17:37< fendrin> timotei: So a working set would consist of core, and each scenario in addons as projects?
20100811 19:17:57< timotei> fendrin: we can add whatever projects we want in a working set
20100811 19:18:19< timotei> fendrin: but we have the: core project, user addons project and the auxiliar user-created projects
20100811 19:18:49< timotei> fendrin: so basically yes
20100811 19:19:05< fendrin> Okay, let's go in a bit detail how campaign development works.
20100811 19:19:55< timotei> well should I tell you how I've done it?
20100811 19:19:58< fendrin> Most if not nearly all campaign designers will work in (at linux) .wesnoth or .wesnoth1.8 directly, or have a link on it in order to test the campaign.
20100811 19:20:19< fendrin> Or they use symbolic links to get the campaign in there.
20100811 19:20:27< timotei> well
20100811 19:20:48< esr> zookeeper: ping?
20100811 19:20:49< timotei> if you want to start a new campaign, just create a new campaign project
20100811 19:21:03< timotei> if you already have one, just create an empty project that points to your directory
20100811 19:21:25< timotei> fendrin: http://blog.alagad.com/2007/10/29/using-eclipse-working-sets-instead-of-workspaces/
20100811 19:21:56< fendrin> But I don't need that. If I already have a campaign it will be in the addons folder or core.
20100811 19:22:18< fendrin> I can have access by just adding an installation and the campaign shows in the add-ons folder of eclipse.
20100811 19:22:44< fendrin> There is really no need for a campaign being an extra independent project.
20100811 19:22:56< anonymissimus> silene: do you get the function-docs from helper.lua displayed in your lua editor when accessing one fo these functions ?
20100811 19:23:19< fendrin> It will always come up 2 times. As the extra project created in eclipse and under the addons folder.
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20100811 19:23:48< fendrin> If it wasn't created by the eclipse dialog it will only be in the addons folder. That will confuse the user.
20100811 19:24:28< timotei> well, that's why I thought of removing User-addons. or make it clear: if you really want good functionality, create a project for each independent project.
20100811 19:24:29< silene> anonymissimus: no, my editor is a plain text one which doesn't know anything about programming languages
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20100811 19:25:20< timotei> fendrin: if people start programming just in User addons, that will ... be stupid. because all cache will be stored in one single file, that will be slow
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20100811 19:26:01< timotei> fendrin: I don't even remember why I've added the user addons project
20100811 19:26:56< fendrin> timotei: Okay, how is this:
20100811 19:27:19< fendrin> The user has several working sets, one for each installation, right?
20100811 19:27:22< timotei> the thing that will ease my work and also the functionality of the plugin is: one project for each campaign
20100811 19:27:25< timotei> fendrin: yes
20100811 19:27:51< CIA-87> esr * r45518 /trunk/data/ (2 files in 2 dirs): More minor wmllint fixes.
20100811 19:28:24< fendrin> When a installation/working set is initialized out of the config, every mainline campaign is added as a project in that working space and every add-on campaign is added to that working space.
20100811 19:28:41< fendrin> core is another one.
20100811 19:28:49< fendrin> timotei: That would fit both needs.
20100811 19:28:58< timotei> well
20100811 19:29:03< timotei> what's 'out of the config'?
20100811 19:29:09< timotei> without setting defaults?
20100811 19:32:18< fendrin> timotei: The idea is still independent from the global settings. 
20100811 19:32:52< fendrin> timotei: The point is, that way every campaign is equal treated.
20100811 19:33:42< fendrin> If the player downloads a new addon or there is a new one in core some day, the plugin needs to register the corresponding projects automatically.
20100811 19:34:12< timotei> well, so, for each installation, we will spawn a project for each folder in data/campaigns?
20100811 19:34:24< fendrin> right
20100811 19:34:32< timotei> good
20100811 19:34:38< fendrin> and for each folder in add-ons
20100811 19:34:48< timotei> good
20100811 19:34:51< timotei> so User Addons is out
20100811 19:35:02< fendrin> out?
20100811 19:35:07< timotei> removed
20100811 19:35:15< fendrin> from what?
20100811 19:35:17< timotei> in the way, we don't use it anymore
20100811 19:35:25< timotei> from current 'workign way'
20100811 19:35:32< fendrin> Ah yes, it is out.
20100811 19:35:38< timotei> sorry, we will not spawn any User Addons project
20100811 19:35:56< timotei> do you have any ideas here? cause I want to ask then something
20100811 19:36:28< fendrin> That way we will avoid that campaigns created by the plugin and campaigns downloaded or copied somehow are different to handle by the user.
20100811 19:36:40< timotei> fair enough
20100811 19:37:01< fendrin> What ideas do you need?
20100811 19:37:17< timotei> for the data/campaign
20100811 19:37:25< timotei> should we do preprocessing and stuff like that?
20100811 19:37:31< timotei> aka: buiding?
20100811 19:37:33< timotei> building*
20100811 19:38:16< fendrin> timotei: Since data/campaign and .wesnoth/addons both contain what we call a project those will be equaly handled.
20100811 19:38:42< fendrin> or multiple projects
20100811 19:40:48< fendrin> timotei: still around?
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20100811 19:44:37< silene> hmm... unit animations for units of human players are broken; i suppose gabba caused it
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20100811 19:49:54< timotei> fendrin: I was helping my brother. he came from the hospita
20100811 19:50:10< fendrin> timotei: Fine, I hop he is well.
20100811 19:50:15< fendrin> s/hop/hope
20100811 19:51:01< timotei> yeah
20100811 19:51:48< timotei> ok, so... we're decided with this.
20100811 19:51:54-!- loonycyborg_ [~kvirc@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100811 19:52:11< timotei> but still, how we handle the managing of installations?
20100811 19:52:43< timotei> I mean, we should let the user have a 'new installation wizard'
20100811 19:52:45< timotei> is that enough
20100811 19:52:46< timotei> ?
20100811 19:52:55< fendrin> I think so.
20100811 19:53:20< fendrin> If something changes on disk he can use the project/work set specific preferences to adjust the settings.
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20100811 19:58:55< timotei> ok
20100811 20:05:02-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100811 20:06:15< [Relic]> Hello :)
20100811 20:08:43-!- loonycyborg [~kvirc@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit [Quit: I ATE'NT DEAD]
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20100811 20:11:10< CIA-87> esr * r45519 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Fix some broken file terminations.
20100811 20:17:51< timotei> fendrin: Gianmarco Leone - The Deep Path - The Battle for Wesnoth OST
20100811 20:17:56< timotei> fendrin: it's super uber nice
20100811 20:18:42-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@99.185.11.175] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100811 20:20:18< fendrin> timotei: Yes, but most newer wesnoth pieces are so.
20100811 20:20:34< timotei> newer wesnoth pieces?
20100811 20:20:51< fendrin> timotei: silvan sanctuary is new. northerners.ogg has been replaced.
20100811 20:21:03< fendrin> journey
20100811 20:21:08< fendrin> 's end is new
20100811 20:21:29< fendrin> over the northern mountains is relativ new.
20100811 20:21:54< timotei> aha
20100811 20:21:59< timotei> silvian sanctuary is nice
20100811 20:22:28< anonymissimus> timotei: are you sugn tortoise svn ? or someone else ?
20100811 20:22:33< anonymissimus> usign
20100811 20:22:37< timotei> no way for plain svn
20100811 20:22:38< timotei> git!
20100811 20:22:42< timotei> git4ever:P
20100811 20:22:55< timotei> I haven't managed to user mercurial yet... so I'm using git until that
20100811 20:23:01< boucman> is there an "official" public wesnoth git repository (on github or somewhere else...)
20100811 20:23:08< timotei> official archive
20100811 20:23:08< timotei> yes
20100811 20:23:10< loonycyborg> I'm using tortoise occasionally.
20100811 20:23:43< anonymissimus> can you query for some specific lines of some file when they have been changed
20100811 20:23:53< boucman> timotei: where is it ?
20100811 20:24:09< timotei> boucman: one sec. there is a nightly snapshot of svn in .git format
20100811 20:24:19< anonymissimus> instead of files at once
20100811 20:24:33< timotei> anonymissimus: hmm, don't know
20100811 20:24:38< timotei> anonymissimus: better ask on #git
20100811 20:24:38< timotei> ;)
20100811 20:24:47< loonycyborg> anonymissimus: I'm using Create Patch.. or so menu item for that.
20100811 20:24:51< boucman> anonymissimus: git is not file based 
20100811 20:25:03< boucman> yes, that sounds weird at first, but that's how it actually works...
20100811 20:25:27< timotei> boucman: http://files.wesnoth.org/hidden/git/
20100811 20:25:29< loonycyborg> Actually you're probably looking for blame.
20100811 20:25:40< boucman> yeah, that :P
20100811 20:25:48< timotei> you wanna use git?:D
20100811 20:26:15-!- fendrin [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100811 20:26:21< boucman> timotei: that's not what I meant... I meant a public git repo in git format... in which users could push/pull easily
20100811 20:26:24< anonymissimus> that's what I tried but doesn't seem to what I'm looking for
20100811 20:26:39< timotei> boucman: there was a discussion about moving to a git repo
20100811 20:26:51< timotei> but it seems we can't find a gna-so-good host
20100811 20:26:56< timotei> with bug tracking and stuff
20100811 20:27:09< timotei> git svn will do the job till that
20100811 20:27:20< timotei> plus majority use svn...
20100811 20:27:26< timotei> and don't know/want to learn git
20100811 20:28:23< loonycyborg> anonymissimus: Right click on the file and choose 'Blame...' from tortoise's menu.
20100811 20:28:32< boucman> timotei: the problem is not exactly that, but ok, you answered my question
20100811 20:28:37< loonycyborg> It'll show what revisions changed each line.
20100811 20:28:42< timotei> boucman: but what's the problem?
20100811 20:29:01< timotei> boucman: you want a native git repo?
20100811 20:29:24< boucman> well if we don't have a native git repo, we can't do public branches easily... it's a bit sad :/
20100811 20:29:45< timotei> hmm
20100811 20:29:54< timotei> righ
20100811 20:29:57< timotei> right*
20100811 20:30:08< timotei> I don't know if git svn supports branching
20100811 20:30:51< boucman> with the way svn works, it most likely doesn't...
20100811 20:31:06< anonymissimus> loonycyborg: yes; but for files you can select one and display a changelog for it, I want to select some lines and display a changelog for them...so I guess it sin't possible
20100811 20:31:32< loonycyborg> boucman: You can easily create branches in your local repo and merge/cherry-pick.
20100811 20:31:49< boucman> yes, of course... but they are not public
20100811 20:32:16< loonycyborg> Perhaps it also can somehow work with svn branches.
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20100811 20:47:18< billynux> I'm off to class, bytes!
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20100811 20:52:28< timotei> I'm off to
20100811 20:52:33< timotei> bye bye
20100811 20:52:47< timotei> w00t
20100811 20:52:51< timotei> fendrin dissapeared?
20100811 20:52:58< timotei> right:D
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20100811 20:59:32< zookeeper> esr, yes?
20100811 21:00:58< esr> zookeeper: wmllint has turned up some odd things thAt I wanted to check with you.
20100811 21:01:39< zookeeper> esr, ok, go ahead... (i might go afk for a little bit, but not for long)
20100811 21:01:52< esr> Regenerating the messages now...
20100811 21:04:40< esr> zookeeper: in ai_controller.cfg, line 19.  Should the content of option_name actually have a translation mark.
20100811 21:04:45< esr> ?
20100811 21:05:50< zookeeper> esr, yes. that string gets displayed to the user
20100811 21:06:13< zookeeper> from line 498 for instance
20100811 21:06:30< zookeeper> well...that's the only instance ;)
20100811 21:07:59< esr> zookeeper: OK, then option_name goes in a kist of translatable attribute in wmllint and we avoid one warning.
20100811 21:12:02< fendrin> Can anybody reproduce that multihex terrains like mountains are broken in trunk?
20100811 21:15:07< loonycyborg> fendrin: They look fine for me in the editor.
20100811 21:15:24< fendrin> loonycyborg: Thanks, must be something I messed up local.
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20100811 21:24:16< zookeeper> esr, better to just tell wmllint to ignore that line, since option_name= isn't part of the WML grammar as such, just a variable name i picked...
20100811 21:27:27< zookeeper> hmm
20100811 21:28:28< zookeeper> on the other hand, you can call that macro and provide customized strings, in which case you'd again have a case of option_name= _ "translatable string" and get another warning
20100811 21:28:41< zookeeper> so, eh, do what you think is best
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20100811 22:15:41< gabba> bonjour
20100811 22:15:52< boucman> salut gabba
20100811 22:15:55< boucman> quoi de neuf
20100811 22:15:56< boucman> ?
20100811 22:16:00< gabba> salut boucman
20100811 22:16:24< gabba> j'ai besoin de conseils pour réviser le système des flèches
20100811 22:16:44< gabba> I've identified 3 alternatives yesterday
20100811 22:16:56< boucman> ok
20100811 22:17:46< gabba> The root of the problem is that I want to split the arrow tip between two hexes (so it needs to be composed of separated images)
20100811 22:19:56< boucman> ok, this makes the arrow engine a bit more complicated than it currently is...
20100811 22:20:32< gabba> This time instead of making and individual image for every possible combination, I'd like to compose it of several parts. For example in a starting hex you'd have the starting circle, a bit of straight line, and the beginning of the arrow tip if the end hex is adjacent.
20100811 22:21:15< gabba> s/making and/making an
20100811 22:22:05< boucman> gabba: on the one hand I understand you, on the other hand having lots of images give more liberty to artists, and it's an easy job to do quickly with gimp and layers...
20100811 22:23:46< gabba> It's better for artists you say? Hmm.
20100811 22:25:14< gabba> Ok, there's also the question of how flexible we want to make this system. If we can define a second-to-last image, why not a next-to-first, etc. (Which of course causes problems of priority for a two-hex arrow).
20100811 22:25:42< boucman> gabba: i'm not good at estimating how much time it might take... is it needed for end of GSOC (compared to other needed feature, that is)
20100811 22:26:29< Crab_> boucman: btw, have you seen our discussion at the start of the day about the need to enable whiteboard in 1.9, and the need to do a testing before that ?
20100811 22:26:43< boucman> gabba: my gut feeling from working with artists for some time is that you need the normal set (start, stop, middle) and a special case for 0 length arrow and 1 length arrow
20100811 22:26:52< boucman> Crab_: no I havn't, what time was it ?
20100811 22:27:16< Crab_> boucman: today, from 20100811 10:02:36
20100811 22:27:30< boucman> got it
20100811 22:28:40< Crab_> boucman: key point is that it would be a good thing to enable it as early as possible to make sure it gets a better future than the MP lobby.
20100811 22:28:55< gabba> Ok... one reason I liked the "composing" solution better is that it would've simplified the algorithm and the naming convention (especially if we add more complicated stuff than a "second-to-last" hex.
20100811 22:29:43< boucman> gabba: well, if composing is simpler, go for it... I don't think it's a big deal...
20100811 22:30:19< boucman> i.e I don't think you'll have huge pressure on the arrow for out of hex arrows
20100811 22:30:34< boucman> (well, not the kind of pressure I had for bigger than hex units, that is :P )
20100811 22:31:10< gabba> But anyways composing was complicated by what happens when superposing/blitting two images with an alpha channel:
20100811 22:31:39< boucman> gabba: btw, you should add something to the RELEASE_NOTE wrt WB before 1.9.0 esp if we decide to enable it by default and/or disable DSU
20100811 22:32:19< gabba> if you combine two images with a piece of magenta arrow at 50% alpha, the part that superposes has 100% alpha... so the composing parts can't overlap at all.
20100811 22:32:48< boucman> hmm, yes... that too
20100811 22:33:00< gabba> at least it's true with blit_surface in sdl_units.cpp
20100811 22:33:20< gabba> *sdl_utils.cpp
20100811 22:34:33< gabba> boucman: you think it's better to let artists define the alpha in the images themselves, isn't it?
20100811 22:35:38< gabba> yeah Ivanovic mentioned the RELEASE_NOTES to me as well (lol, I was trying to autocomplete REL... with the tab key)
20100811 22:35:45< boucman> gabba: yes, definitely... if we want transparent arrows with opaque arrows (which is the best type of arrow I can think of so far) transparency can't be applied globally
20100811 22:37:39< gabba> boucman: in that case, instead of applying the alpha myself in code (like I do for highlighting), I have to do arrow->set_style("highlighted"), etc., where each style refers to a separate directory with arrow images.
20100811 22:38:07< boucman> hmm
20100811 22:38:20< boucman> it's a balance to find...
20100811 22:38:33< boucman> what i'm trying to say is the following :
20100811 22:38:40< zookeeper> hi Crab_, seen http://gna.org/bugs/?16406 ?
20100811 22:39:32< Crab_> zookeeper: not yet. I've not changed anything there for 1.8.4, so it should be something earlier.. I'll take a look
20100811 22:39:34< boucman> if you say "a 30% transparency makes for the most readable arrows, so the engine should set a transparency to 30%" then no. That's for the artist to decide, and the best way to do it is by setting the PNG transparency
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20100811 22:41:23< boucman> however if we say "they are different types of arrows, and each have variations with sementic meanings, and we want the semeantic part of the information to be consistent, so the engine should hardcode it" then yes, that's ok. It could also be done with multiple styles, but it's not "bad" per se. For instance the green of poisoned units and the transparency of invisible units are part of the engine, and can't be set via WML
20100811 22:42:00< boucman> (in the case of WML it to prevent an easy cheating on invisible units by making them visible by tweaking their animation, so less of  a constraint here)
20100811 22:42:19< boucman> the "good aspect" of using styles, is that it makes less work for you ;)
20100811 22:44:08< gabba> ok, but if I make arrows with perfectly tweaked transparency in the .png, less transparent *in code* when highlighted, am I not potentially ruining the artists' work, in a sense? Also, they may want to do different effects (maybe very nice ones) for highlighting rather than just changing the alpha globally, and a separate style allows that.
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20100811 22:44:40< gabba> Not sure it's less work, since I have to provide convicing prototype images, and I hate churning out those pieces of arrows in the GIMP :P
20100811 22:45:19< boucman> gabba: well, "lots of styles" is probably the best way to do it (appart from a package size point of view :P ) the question is : which one is the less work for you
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20100811 22:45:44< gabba> Hopefully I can find a GIMP or imagemagick script to batch-change alpha in a bunch of .png's
20100811 22:45:50< boucman> gabba: changing the transparancies globally is probably one ImageMagick command awy ;)
20100811 22:49:30< gabba> boucman: ok, one last question: I was wondering if there's any way to improve the appearance of superposed arrows. I'm under the impression that with two 30% arrows superposed, we're already at 60% alpha, and the brightening on-screen is indeed a bit obnoxious.
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20100811 22:51:03< boucman> gabba: nothing trivial I can think of. I don't think it matters much for 1.9.0 as long as it's readable, but in the long run "smart summing" transparencies is a non-trivial image processing
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20100811 22:51:51< gabba> ok, too bad
20100811 22:52:03< boucman> maybe you could adjust the overall transparency after summing (like (A+B)/2 ) at the end, but it wouldn't look good, it would just look better than without
20100811 22:52:41< boucman> ideally doing it on a per pixel basis... as I said : non-trivial
20100811 22:53:42< gabba> yeah... writing a custom blitter that superposes the arrow images before blitting them on-screen, basically. I see how it might work, but I don't want to touch this with a ten-foot pole right now.
20100811 22:54:19< boucman> gabba: and after 1.9.0 you will have some more time, at which point doing it with styles would be both easier and better :)
20100811 22:54:47< gabba> ? I don't see how style play into this
20100811 22:54:56< gabba> *styles
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20100811 22:55:23< boucman> I ment "with lots of images and a good naming convention" 
20100811 22:56:41< gabba> but you mean, images for every possible superposition of any arrow image?
20100811 22:57:39< gabba> the number of possible combinations is insane
20100811 22:57:46< boucman> something like that... it's ~64 of them, so it's quite a lot, but I did it for some test terrains, it's not that long
20100811 22:58:15< boucman> hmm, yes that's a lot..
20100811 22:59:04< gabba> I took a look just for fun, and for a custom version of blit_surface that has its own treatment of the alpha, it seems all that's needed is to change the line: dst_a += (((255 - dst_a) * src_a) >> 8);
20100811 22:59:44< boucman> hehe ok, do it that way, then :)
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20100811 23:01:01< gabba> ok, in any case this is a problem I'll save for the end, it's merely cosmetic
20100811 23:02:48< boucman> yes, I guess that's the best to do at this point
20100811 23:02:55< boucman> what's next on your agenda now ?
20100811 23:04:39< gabba> First, find a new naming convention for arrows, and then, make images for the two styles I need right now (+ change the code to use them, trivial)
20100811 23:05:28< gabba> Second, solve some bugs with reordering actions when recruits/recalls are involved (you can reorder a move involving the leader, making the recruits impossible)
20100811 23:05:54< boucman> well, you have what images ? start, entry->exit, entry->pre-end,directional endings
20100811 23:06:22< boucman> or would this be start->entry
20100811 23:06:49< gabba> Third, I guess I'd like to take a look into re-enabling multi-turn planned moves
20100811 23:07:20< boucman> so arrow-start-n, arrow-n-se,arrow-ending-se-s, arrow-end-s
20100811 23:08:38< gabba> ok, makes sense. I'd get an arrow-start-ending-*-* as well.
20100811 23:09:03< gabba> arrow-start-ending-* rather
20100811 23:10:47< gabba> I don't need a 1-hex arrow I think?
20100811 23:10:59< gabba> (i.e. just a start circle)
20100811 23:11:14< boucman> yes, note that there are synonimous (like arrow-n-s and arrow-s-n) you should either have duplicate images or use a sane convention (I recomand naming clockwise starting with north to be consistant with terrains)
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20100811 23:11:48< gabba> yup, I already use the clockwise thing
20100811 23:11:49< boucman> well, maybe when the user selects a unit and the mouse is still in the unit's hex :P
20100811 23:12:12< gabba> yeah, it could be a visual indicator that the wb is enabled
20100811 23:13:04< gabba> and it could also be useless visual clutter :P
20100811 23:13:20< boucman> that too :D
20100811 23:14:03< crimson_penguin> So I'm working on putting my Xcode project file in trunk/projectfiles/Xcode/ - there's a bunch of files that go with it, and some of them definitely won't go in svn (headers and libraries), but what's the stance on these: Mac Sources (prefix header, SDLMain sources, server_main which is similar but for the server), Resources (icon, pango stuff, nib file)... actually, on second thought: I want to include all of those; any objectio
20100811 23:15:24< boucman> crimson_penguin: not from me, but i'm not the one usually objecting to that sort of things... be carfull of licensing and redistribution though (i'm thinking of mac specific headers, mainly)
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20100811 23:16:08< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: hmm, not sure at all if this makes sense or if those are "external" dependencies like eg dll files for windows
20100811 23:16:28< crimson_penguin> boucman: well, those Mac sources are basically started from SDL templates, and then I modified them
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20100811 23:16:32< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: in general: why speaks against creating a neat big package of the "all stuff required and does not change" part at sf.net
20100811 23:16:34< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: which ones?
20100811 23:16:54< Ivanovic> upload the plain xcode project files into svn and add a README with "get the 'common files' from URL"
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20100811 23:17:23< crimson_penguin> well, this stuff that I do wanna include is likely to change more frequently than headers and libraries
20100811 23:17:45< crimson_penguin> maybe not all of it, but if I'm including some stuff from Resources, say, I may as well include all of it
20100811 23:18:12< crimson_penguin> what about the Mac Sources though?
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20100811 23:18:24< crimson_penguin> I could put those somewhere else I guess...
20100811 23:18:47< loonycyborg> Put in svn everything that is developed for you.
20100811 23:18:55< loonycyborg> *by you
20100811 23:19:03< Ivanovic> what *are* the mac sources?
20100811 23:19:19< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: well on Linux and Windows there's SDLMain, right?
20100811 23:19:47< crimson_penguin> on Mac instead of that being a library, they just shipped a SDLMain.h/m in the Xcode templates
20100811 23:19:52< crimson_penguin> and I've modified that a bunch
20100811 23:20:19< loonycyborg> If you modified it then you definitely should commit that .m file.
20100811 23:21:00< crimson_penguin> I modified it quite a bit
20100811 23:21:16< crimson_penguin> the .nib wants to be version controlled to; I update the changelog in it
20100811 23:21:30< crimson_penguin> and the icon should be under version control
20100811 23:21:52< crimson_penguin> the pango stuff is more questionable by loonycyborg's rule
20100811 23:22:27< crimson_penguin> pango stuff is: pango.aliases, pango.modules, and pango folder which has UBs of all the pango modules
20100811 23:24:52< fendrin> eleazar: Hi, please allow me a question. Do you plan to make the Coastal Reef based on tropical water only? I am asking because I would need a different solution for the cataract in the Legend of Wesmere campaign at the Ka'lian map.
20100811 23:25:31< crimson_penguin> why is there #include "src/show_dialog.hpp" in multiplayer_wait.hpp?
20100811 23:25:37< crimson_penguin> why the src/?
20100811 23:25:53< loonycyborg> Probably a mistake..
20100811 23:25:56< crimson_penguin> that means the wesnoth root needs to be in the include path
20100811 23:26:36< loonycyborg> It generally is.
20100811 23:27:20< crimson_penguin> Well, ok, I'll add that to my project then
20100811 23:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 138 bugs, 286 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100811 23:28:39< loonycyborg> Feel free to remove src/ too since it's inconsistent.
20100811 23:40:40< boucman> night all
20100811 23:40:45< eleazar> fendrin: can't you change the base by shift-clicking the other shallow water on it?
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20100811 23:40:50< eleazar> boucman: night
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--- Log closed Thu Aug 12 00:00:25 2010