--- Log opened Sun Aug 22 00:00:08 2010
20100822 00:04:51< Sapient> hmm... apparently if you set a unit to canrecruit=1 then it doesn't work anymore
20100822 00:05:20< Sapient> I suspect boolean-related changes
20100822 00:06:25< zookeeper> what, not running wmllint? :P
20100822 00:06:40< Sapient> zookeeper, it was set with set_variable
20100822 00:06:47< Sapient> wmllint wouldn't detect that
20100822 00:06:51< zookeeper> oh, ok.
20100822 00:08:08-!- norbert_ [~norbert@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 00:08:36< norbert_> shadowmaster, you were looking for me?
20100822 00:09:40< Sapient> it is a bit odd that 1 no longer works as a boolean true value, if my intuition is correct
20100822 00:09:42< norbert_> hi all, I recently compiled and installed 1.8.4 from sources; what would be the best way to install 1.9.0 alongside it, as far as configure options go or whatever
20100822 00:11:54< zookeeper> Sapient, i'm sure silene and you could have a productive discussion about that!
20100822 00:12:49< Sapient> zookeeper, well I'd like to confirm my suspicion first
20100822 00:12:53< Sapient> testing it now
20100822 00:13:28< Gambit> [I think] I have finished this now: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1876
20100822 00:13:31< zookeeper> well, i'm not totally sure if it works or not. luckily i'd never use 1 as a boolean true anymore.
20100822 00:15:00< Gambit> afk for a bit
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20100822 00:21:58< Sapient> hmm... I am seeing dead people
20100822 00:22:09< Sapient> in the "die" event
20100822 00:22:29< Sapient> the dead person flashes back on the screen during the killer's dialogue
20100822 00:27:00< Gambit> wesbot seen Crab_?
20100822 00:27:00< wesbot> Gambit: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 1d 9h ago.  1d 8h ago they left with the message: Client Quit
20100822 00:41:08-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-176-19.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 00:46:43< esr> shadowmaster: fabi and I still maintain DM, and even if that we not true I would still be the person t ask about it wearing my mainline-maintainer hat.  What's up?
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20100822 00:54:22< Sapient> what's up, Upth?
20100822 00:55:49< shadowmaster> esr: the fourums are up.
20100822 00:56:10< shadowmaster> I was just looking for someone to assign the feedback threads to, but I'll use our Announcements user account instead
20100822 00:57:06< shadowmaster> maybe I should create a separate account for feedback threads
20100822 00:58:03< shadowmaster> nah, I'll just change its group name/rank
20100822 01:00:21< shadowmaster> esr: mainline maintainer hat? I thought you only did automated fixing?
20100822 01:00:41< shadowmaster> (which as far as I'm concerned, doesn't count as campaign maintenance)
20100822 01:01:05< esr> shadowmaster: zookeeper and I split up the manual maintainance stuff as well.
20100822 01:01:39< esr> Some campaigns are more or less his to keep an eye on, some mine.
20100822 01:01:44< shadowmaster> then add yourself to DM and DW's credits if you are really going to help and answer to users feedback
20100822 01:01:52< esr> OK.
20100822 01:01:54< shadowmaster> which involves forum reading mind you
20100822 01:02:02< esr> Aaargh.  Must I?
20100822 01:02:03< shadowmaster> *yourselves
20100822 01:02:15< shadowmaster> leave it or take it
20100822 01:02:22< esr> Grmph.
20100822 01:02:29< shadowmaster> I guess I'll ask fabi instead
20100822 01:02:43< shadowmaster> at least for DM.
20100822 01:02:54< shadowmaster> I still have to complete the series of feedback threads for DW anyway
20100822 01:04:03< Sapient> esr: you can subscribe to forum threads to get email updates
20100822 01:04:42< esr> Sapient: Noted.
20100822 01:05:22< shadowmaster> I told you thatyears ago
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20100822 01:09:33< zookeeper> esr, well, the feedback threads are the #1 official channel for users to give feedback on balance etc.
20100822 01:10:22< zookeeper> you're unlikely to hear complains about difficulty anywhere else
20100822 01:10:51< shadowmaster> why does norbert need to insult users' intelligence by providing overly detailed instructions in his posts?
20100822 01:10:59< billynux> I'm off y'all, see you around
20100822 01:11:31< shadowmaster> can't he just say "Wesnoth 1.8 is being translated to Russian already, with XX% of completion"
20100822 01:12:42< shadowmaster> I'd expect such a person to be able to check my away status too.
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20100822 01:27:03< Sapient> eleazar: hi
20100822 01:27:26< Sapient> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/TerrainCodesWML  seems to be missing the new stuff
20100822 01:33:28-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20100822 01:38:15< Gambit> esr: There's also an IRC bot that will give forum notifications.
20100822 01:41:31-!- eleazar [~jbjerk@ppp-70-226-225-180.dsl.spfdil.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: eleazar]
20100822 01:45:35< shadowmaster> I'm considering splitting Mainline feedback into subforums for each campaign
20100822 01:47:13< Gambit> D:
20100822 01:47:35< Gambit> shadowmaster: I will hate you for(ever|a few minutes)
20100822 01:47:58< shadowmaster> dammit
20100822 01:48:02< shadowmaster> Gambit: why?
20100822 01:48:16< Gambit> shadowmaster: Well that's like 10 new subforums to load...
20100822 01:48:40< shadowmaster> "load"?
20100822 01:48:41< Gambit> But I guess it does make sense for people who only want email updates on specific campaigns
20100822 01:48:56< shadowmaster> please don't tell me that you are intending to make your stupid bot subscribe to the Feedback forum
20100822 01:49:03< Gambit> shadowmaster: It already does.
20100822 01:49:10< shadowmaster> that's stupid.
20100822 01:49:16< shadowmaster> you aren't a campaign maintainer, so why do that?
20100822 01:49:34< Gambit> shadowmaster: Because it also has features for looking up the last post in a forum or by a certain user
20100822 01:49:37< Gambit> So I log every public post
20100822 01:50:02< shadowmaster> black list those forums?
20100822 01:50:27 * shadowmaster . O o (am I tailoring the forums for a third-party bot? no)
20100822 01:50:33< Gambit> shadowmaster: :P
20100822 01:50:51< shadowmaster> no, seriously that'd be your problem
20100822 01:50:55< Gambit> I know.
20100822 01:51:00< shadowmaster> so I await comments by everybody else.
20100822 01:53:13< shadowmaster> I'm tired of cloning threads for DW's feedback
20100822 01:53:36< shadowmaster> I feel like a piece of machinery
20100822 01:55:38< shadowmaster> phew, at last
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20100822 02:26:37< shadowmaster> Sapient: still around?
20100822 02:26:48< Sapient> yes
20100822 02:27:28< shadowmaster> what's the deal with http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewforum.php?f=4 ?
20100822 02:27:38< shadowmaster> is that really used anymore? can I lock and let it sink?
20100822 02:27:52< shadowmaster> uhhh
20100822 02:28:03< shadowmaster> I mean http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12139
20100822 02:29:02< Sapient> yeah, that information is too outdated to be of much use
20100822 02:29:23< Sapient> I think there is still a link to it from the tech support slow complaining thread
20100822 02:29:54< Sapient> the idea was to give those with complaints something constructive to do
20100822 02:29:55< shadowmaster> but *that* is the slow performance complaints thread?
20100822 02:30:26< Sapient> oh
20100822 02:30:33< Sapient> well you can't get rid of it
20100822 02:30:51< shadowmaster> it just dropped like an anchor.
20100822 02:31:06< shadowmaster> I guess I'll have to go rescue it
20100822 02:31:07< Sapient> if you kill it, it will only make it stronger
20100822 02:31:19< Sapient> much like Obi Wan
20100822 02:32:07< alink> such "slow performance" thread should have a version number in title
20100822 02:32:29< Sapient> let me put it this way: would you rather have lots of new threads where they give no technical details and just complain about slowness, or do you prefer the way it is now?
20100822 02:32:48< shadowmaster> the latter
20100822 02:33:14< shadowmaster> I suspect many people will complain about slowness during this dev cycle anyway (*cough* animated water *cough*)
20100822 02:33:56< alink> we will fix that eventually, and at least there is a preference to toggle them off
20100822 02:34:15< shadowmaster> how can you fix it?
20100822 02:34:16< Sapient> ah, I had noticed some slowness myself
20100822 02:34:39< shadowmaster> it seemed to me like we hit the render optimization barrier some time ago
20100822 02:34:47< Sapient> I didn't even realize the water was moving because my eyesight is a bit poor
20100822 02:34:51< alink> I think I see various possibilities to optimize it, but need to try them to be sure
20100822 02:35:12< alink> the first obvious one is to slow their animation speed
20100822 02:35:47 * shadowmaster tries to decide. Shiny, or performance?
20100822 02:36:39< alink> and I have spotted a problem with coast tiles, I have idea how to fix that, but that's part of a bigger plan with multihex images
20100822 02:40:17< alink> well, I think that a tired human eye will not notice if we reduce the 15 frames cycling at high rate with few little details between them. But I am no artist
20100822 02:41:37< alink> IMHO an animation possibly used on each tile of the map should be light, but we can use smoother animation for more rare things like windmills 
20100822 02:44:34< alink> alternatively (but that's more complex) some animation could have a "low priority" key, and be skipped or slowed when performance are detected as low
20100822 02:45:36< alink> or even have a big "animation complexity" slider in preference which will skip any anim with lower priority (including idle or standing etc..)
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20100822 02:49:28< alink> mmh, but it's true that water anim looks really good :-) 
20100822 02:50:44< shadowmaster> it's like deciding between running a compositing WM (shiny) or a normal WM (performance)
20100822 02:50:51< shadowmaster> except I opted for the shiny
20100822 02:51:10< alink> i was going to suggest a more subtile effect with more rare waves alternating randomly on various hexes, but the current liquid effect is too cool
20100822 02:55:07 * joo downloads dev. version to see what the water looks like, before it's neutered
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20100822 03:00:17< alink> yeah water hexes invalidates way too many coast hexes (for nothing). If my plan with multihexes works it should halves that
20100822 03:01:11< alink> but I will not have time for that soon, unless my other projects go really smoothly 
20100822 03:05:46< Sapient> I noticed something strange
20100822 03:06:02< Sapient> on the first side turn of a local game I am unable to bring up the command mode
20100822 03:06:24< Sapient> that has happened twice now
20100822 03:07:05< Sapient> some hmm.. ok now it's working
20100822 03:07:17< Sapient> not sure what's going on but it seems hotkey related
20100822 03:13:33< alink> ok I just tested another easy water animation optimization: just need to synchronize all animations, that helps a lot. But since the update pattern is too visible, it should be mixed with random terrain rules using same tempo but shifted frames (you could even use different images if you want, like with a floating log).
20100822 03:14:36< alink> and since I am currently working on improving the random terrain rule syntax, I will keep such feature in mind
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20100822 03:15:45< Sapient> shadowmaster: "people who think that applications adding registry entries upon installation is a violation of their privacy" ???
20100822 03:15:47< alink> also being able to synchronize some terrain animation may be useful for some special effects. Maybe wind in grass
20100822 03:16:16< Sapient> anyone with such an extreme view must have given up on using Windows a long time ago
20100822 03:21:15< joo> o_O the credits get shown when I press next or previous tip in 1.9.. but that's probably known
20100822 03:21:57< alink> joo: yes it's already fixed too, but thanks for reporting (it was easy to miss it)
20100822 03:26:13< joo> Hmm.. I think the old selection cursor looked better
20100822 03:28:58< alink> boucman: I just did more test about random rules macro, impact seems much bigger than I checked the last time. I am more optimistic about my new random feature (I have a first prototype, currently testing it)
20100822 03:29:11< Sapient> joo, I suspect you won't be the first user to state that
20100822 03:29:21< Sapient> or the last ;)
20100822 03:29:41< Sapient> it is a development version so we are trying things out
20100822 03:29:48< joo> Yes, yes.
20100822 03:29:50< alink> joo: yeah, it's still work in progress ;)
20100822 03:29:55< joo> Ignore my incessant mewling.
20100822 03:31:11< Sapient> unfortunately what "looks better" is often a very subjective determination
20100822 03:31:59< alink> even for the same person since it depends of what he's used to
20100822 03:32:06< joo> Yes.
20100822 03:33:13< joo> I might be bold enough to say, though, that simpler GUI elements better embody the minimalistic philosophy of BfW
20100822 03:34:40< alink> joo but the rules are quite complex, or more precisely the number of gameplay elements, so any help of the UI is welcome for beginners
20100822 03:35:25< Sapient> hmm... in the MP lobby there are so many commands that you can't see them all from typing "/help"
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20100822 03:35:33< joo> Heh.
20100822 03:35:41< Sapient> I may file a report for that if it's not already known
20100822 03:36:00< joo> Depends on your screen resolution I suppose
20100822 03:36:54< alink> joo: btw, replacing images/misc/hover-hex-top.png by a white hex with 10% alpha restore something similar as the old hex highlighting 
20100822 03:37:04< Sapient> I've got it in a 1509x873 window right now
20100822 03:37:08< alink> ah and also blank images/misc/hover-hex-bottom.png
20100822 03:37:19< joo> I'll keep that in mind
20100822 03:38:28< Sapient> I use my own darken.png... the bars are too bold for my taste
20100822 03:39:15< Sapient> I did commit it once but it got reverted :p
20100822 03:41:19< Sapient> hmm.. that's odd. now the text is wrapping to the third line and I can read all the commands
20100822 03:45:40< Sapient> yeah, it keeps going back and forth from wrapped to unwrapped but I'm not sure what's triggering it
20100822 03:46:16< Sapient> the "Refresh" button made it do linewrap
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20100822 05:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 135 bugs, 290 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100822 06:06:42< crimson_penguin> shadowmaster: I edited that post
20100822 06:06:53< crimson_penguin> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25660
20100822 06:06:54< shadowmaster> what post?
20100822 06:07:12< shadowmaster> okay, thanks
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20100822 06:12:40< shadowmaster> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=291766#p291766 heh, the epitome of laziness. Considering that it took me a few minutes...
20100822 06:13:21 * shadowmaster <3 git
20100822 06:24:04< alink> boucman: ok my prototype can replace TERRAIN_BASE_RANDOM (which calls GENERIC_SINGLE_RANDOM_LFB which create 11 rules) into only one rule :)
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20100822 06:28:04< alink> now i need to find a way to predict how it will help if all the macros were updated (because it's a big hard work and I don't want to do it to see if it is worth the trouble)
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20100822 06:51:22< shadowmaster> who hosts the linked site for the 1.0 section of units.wesnoth.org?
20100822 06:52:01< shadowmaster> (besides freeshell.org, of course. I wonder if we could replicate that and move it to wesnoth.org in case it ever goes down)
20100822 06:52:39< shadowmaster> that's actually quite neat since I can link to it from the wesnoth evolution 0.2 article
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20100822 08:15:20< shadowmaster> my route to wesnoth.org appears to have broken
20100822 08:16:22< shadowmaster> and apparently I can connect to it from the Netherlands
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20100822 08:16:42< shadowmaster> I'm getting high traceroute lags too, hm
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20100822 08:17:57< shadowmaster> ah, phew
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20100822 10:13:10< Ivanovic> moin
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20100822 11:17:31< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16511
20100822 11:17:39< Ivanovic> let me guess, you got no idea what the issue might be either
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20100822 11:49:55< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: I've never got it myself even though I always install and run after making the installer.
20100822 12:04:40< Ivanovic> okay
20100822 12:05:00< Ivanovic> though the issue sounds really strange, as well as those crashes many windows users seem to have
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20100822 12:47:11< thespaceinvader> loonycyborg: another possible bug with the windows install that I've yet to report, but has bothered me for several versions:
20100822 12:48:08< thespaceinvader> when you run a program enough on WinXP, it goes into the quick launch bit of the start menu - only with some versions/installs, and I don't see any pattern as to which, the map editor shows up there, even if i've never used it...
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20100822 13:09:27< loonycyborg> thespaceinvader: For me they always do.
20100822 13:09:42< loonycyborg> But if you really want them there you can move them manually.
20100822 13:10:14< loonycyborg> iirc
20100822 13:10:22< thespaceinvader> ah no worries then
20100822 13:12:25< loonycyborg> And edit the caption in properties to know which is which
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20100822 13:35:46< norbert_> hi all, I recently compiled and installed 1.8.4 from sources; what would be the best way to install 1.9.0 alongside it, as far as configure options go or whatever
20100822 13:36:23< norbert_> system is Debian stable
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20100822 13:37:26< Soliton> i use a different prefix and prefs dir.
20100822 13:38:06< norbert_> ok
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20100822 13:45:11< stikonas> Ivanovic: If you are interested, r600g mostly works now
20100822 13:45:21< stikonas> it can run e.g. compiz or openarena
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20100822 15:14:15< CIA-35> timotei * r45945 /website/eclipse.wesnoth.org/ (features.html index.html): update the website
20100822 15:18:32< Gambit> silene: Around?
20100822 15:19:05< Gambit> silene: Can you check out this: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/FMGBYLW7 as a possible replacement from the [gold] tag?
20100822 15:19:24< Gambit> It allows it to do a comma separated list of teams, or if no side= is set it will give to all teams.
20100822 15:20:26< Gambit> err I still have an extra print() in there from debugging, but just ignore that :P
20100822 15:25:50< Ivanovic> silene: i just tried it some hours ago and at that time it was not working for compositing via opengl in kde
20100822 15:39:12< zookeeper> who do people keep calling sides teams!
20100822 15:39:16< zookeeper> argh.
20100822 15:41:31< stikonas> Ivanovic: was your sentence to me?
20100822 15:41:40< Ivanovic> uhm, yes
20100822 15:42:05< stikonas> opengl in kde does not work for me even with r600 classic
20100822 15:42:37< stikonas> I don't know why, it worked previously with mesa 7.7, I have to use XRender for now
20100822 15:50:09< Ivanovic> it does work lovely for me with r600 classic
20100822 15:51:21< stikonas> ivanovic: I suspect X server version causes some trouble
20100822 15:51:34< stikonas> I use some RC version of 1.9
20100822 15:51:35 * Ivanovic is using xorg-server 1.9
20100822 15:51:38< stikonas> strange
20100822 15:58:21< Gambit> zookeeper: Yeah, sorry. I'll change that before making a diff (assuming there aren't other problems).
20100822 15:58:59< Gambit> I did a lot of copy pasting from the wiki. [/excuses]
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20100822 15:59:24< Gambit> Well, that and the code that was already there to begin with.
20100822 16:01:14< stikonas> esr: In Low scenario 7 there is a sentence "Let us pursue the ORC WHo murdered El'Isomithir!". Is such capitalization a typo?
20100822 16:01:54< esr> Yes, it's a typo.  Feel free to fix it.
20100822 16:02:29< stikonas> no commit access, I will just report in a wiki
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20100822 16:08:18< Gambit> boucman: I talked to el3azar, and this patch has the values he gave me: https://gna.org/patch/?1874
20100822 16:08:41< boucman> k, i'll commit whenever I have 5,
20100822 16:08:43< boucman> 5'
20100822 16:08:50< boucman> assigned to me in the mean time
20100822 16:11:45< boucman> Gambit: I assume you are already somewhere in the credits...
20100822 16:12:22< Gambit> boucman: Not for that one. I have another patch waiting where I added myself
20100822 16:12:34< boucman> k, which patch ?
20100822 16:12:43< Gambit> https://gna.org/patch/?1876
20100822 16:12:57< Gambit> It's the [chat] tag from FutureWML
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20100822 16:13:24< boucman> interesting idea...
20100822 16:13:55< boucman> but too complicated to commit right away in the same batch without testing, so if it's fine with you we'll wait for that other patch to add you there
20100822 16:14:12< boucman> btw is it possible to send a chat message through lua/FAI ?
20100822 16:14:25< Gambit> Yes
20100822 16:14:37< Gambit> There are already LUA versions of it actually.
20100822 16:14:52< Gambit> But AFAIK they don't handle private messages like that one.
20100822 16:15:11< boucman> probably worth uniformizing...
20100822 16:15:13< Gambit> FAI I don't think.
20100822 16:15:43< Gambit> And the LUA versions are in some add-ons; nothing in mainline.
20100822 16:17:17< Gambit> [10:15:11] <boucman> probably worth uniformizing... <=== 
20100822 16:17:23< Gambit> I don't understand
20100822 16:17:50< boucman> having lua/fai/wml all three able to send chats both private an public
20100822 16:17:59< Gambit> Ah
20100822 16:18:00< boucman> (if I understood you correctly that's not the case)
20100822 16:19:41< Soliton> just to be clear that patch doesn't send anything. it just displays a message from WML as chat.
20100822 16:20:17< Gambit> I don't think FAI can use the chat at all. Lua definitely can display messages to only certain sides, I just don't know if any of the UMC Lua [chat] tags do that.
20100822 16:20:28< Soliton> i'm not sure if it's good to let WML impersonate/confuse people in mp games.
20100822 16:20:30< boucman> Soliton: oh... I hadn't looked at the patch at this point.... much less interesting
20100822 16:21:10< Gambit> Soliton: private messages are colored to your own team
20100822 16:21:16< Soliton> though if lua can already do it that point is moot.
20100822 16:21:18< boucman> Soliton: i'm not too worried about impersonating (it would be usefull at least for AI players) but if it's local only, it might not be that interesting...
20100822 16:21:22< Gambit> So it is not possible to make it look like someone is whispering to you
20100822 16:21:50< Gambit> Soliton: It also doesn't do the whisper received noise.
20100822 16:22:21< Gambit> Public messages do look like observers
20100822 16:22:29< Gambit> But WML can't get the names of observers
20100822 16:22:46< Gambit> So they would see there is no Bob observing
20100822 16:23:18< Gambit> So it can't really be Bob sending these awfully vulgar messages :)
20100822 16:23:22< Soliton> i'd prefer if there is a simple way to recognize the message comes from WML.
20100822 16:24:21< Gambit> There is.
20100822 16:24:28< Gambit> It's white, and there's no observer with that name :)
20100822 16:24:40< Gambit> Soliton: Also that'd be up to the individual UMC authors
20100822 16:24:48< Soliton> s/there's/there might be/
20100822 16:24:49< Gambit> They could name it "Game Alert" or something
20100822 16:25:09< Soliton> my point is exactly to not leave it up to the author...
20100822 16:25:35< Gambit> So then prefix "WML: " to all names?
20100822 16:25:47< Gambit> <WML: Bob> Hello world
20100822 16:25:50< Soliton> something like that, yeah.
20100822 16:25:59< Gambit> Okay will do.
20100822 16:28:02< boucman> I prefer game alert
20100822 16:28:21< boucman> WML: looks too much like a debug message, it breaks the mood
20100822 16:28:50< Gambit> Put name first?
20100822 16:28:54< boucman> or it could be a configurable non-player prefix (advisor: <some-npc>:=
20100822 16:28:55< Gambit> <Bob (WML)>Hello world
20100822 16:29:40< Gambit> boucman: I don't think add_chat_message allows for things before the name
20100822 16:30:04< boucman> Gambit: i don't know how chat works, i'm just thinking aloud
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20100822 16:31:10< Gambit> Soliton: Anything else I should fix?
20100822 16:31:37< boucman> Soliton: do you want to handle the patch ? it's currently unassigned IIRC
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20100822 16:32:25< Soliton> Gambit: the paranoid checking of side_for_raw.empty() ;-)
20100822 16:32:56< Gambit> Ah yeah
20100822 16:33:07< Soliton> boucman: i'm not sure if it should rather be done in lua. i think silene mentioned something to that effect.
20100822 16:33:11< Gambit> Initially I was trying to check for if it was empty || if it was 0 || if it contained 0
20100822 16:33:25< Gambit> But I removed the other things and forgot to change it back to a regular old else
20100822 16:33:33< boucman> Soliton: k, we might as well wait for silene, then
20100822 16:33:40< Gambit> Aww :(
20100822 16:33:43 * Gambit hates lua
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20100822 16:34:00< Gambit> Alrighty though
20100822 16:34:21< CIA-35> boucman * r45946 /trunk/ (changelog data/core/terrain.cfg): adjust various keep height, patch by Gambit
20100822 16:38:05< Gambit> Soliton: Ah this is interesting
20100822 16:38:20< Gambit> No matter what precautions I take in [chat] they could still get around it
20100822 16:38:45< Gambit> [lua] wesnoth.message("Gambit", "I am your father!") [/lua]
20100822 16:39:20< Soliton> right, hence "though if lua can already do it that point is moot."
20100822 16:46:49< Gambit> Soliton: Also I don't think lua can check who you are in multiplayer.
20100822 16:46:58< Gambit> I mean; the side you control.
20100822 16:47:25< Gambit> Which is essential for sending private messages.
20100822 16:48:31< Soliton> wesnoth.message() does not send a message but just displays a chat message, no?
20100822 16:49:02< Gambit> I think so.
20100822 16:50:02< Gambit> And I don't know how to make it check that a side is both human, and controlled by you.
20100822 16:50:16< Gambit> Well I didn't know how to do that in C++ either, but I found some code from [message] that did. :)
20100822 16:50:19< Soliton> if it's human it is controlled by you.
20100822 16:51:02< Soliton> otherwise it's network controlled where you have no idea if it's human or ai.
20100822 16:51:56< Gambit> Ah
20100822 17:05:34< silene> Gambit: the_side.controller == "human"
20100822 17:05:47< Gambit> Yep
20100822 17:06:02< silene> with a __cfg inside
20100822 17:06:44< silene> Gambit: concerning your [gold] tag, you are breaking the current behavior for empty side, which is side 1
20100822 17:07:13< Gambit> silene: couldn't wmllint fix that?
20100822 17:07:48< silene> Gambit: why does it need to be fixed? it doesn't seem like the behavior you suggest instead is useful
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20100822 17:08:19< Gambit> silene: It's very useful — giving gold to all sides when you do not know the exact number of sides
20100822 17:08:43< silene> Gambit: side=1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9?
20100822 17:09:03< Gambit> silene: Doesn't giving gold to a nonexistant side generate errors?
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20100822 17:10:54< silene> Gambit: with the code you suggest, yes; but my point is that i wouldn't like to break existing code if possible; the feature (giving gold to every sides without exception) doesn't seem worth it; perhaps a "side=all" would make more sense
20100822 17:11:15< Gambit> silene: With the old code as well I believe.
20100822 17:11:33< Gambit> But yes I can do side=all too
20100822 17:12:11< Gambit> I don't remember seeing anything in the old lua code that made it default to 1.
20100822 17:12:48< silene> Gambit: side = tonumber(cfg.side or 1) or helper.wml_error(tag .. " given a noninteger side= attribute.")
20100822 17:14:08< Gambit> silene: Is it possible to color the sender in wesnoth.message ?
20100822 17:14:57< Gambit> In the C++ version I was using that (and *speaker* vs <speaker>) to signal that the message was private.
20100822 17:15:17< Gambit> (talking about [chat] now)
20100822 17:17:30< silene> no, i don't think pango markup is allowed there
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20100822 17:19:54< Gambit> silene: it doesn't look like controller is returned by wesnoth.get_side()
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20100822 17:20:52< silene> Gambit: not controller, __cfg.controller
20100822 17:26:46< Gambit> I still don't know how to check the side that you control in MP though
20100822 17:27:12< Gambit> As in: the side that the client processing the WML owns
20100822 17:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 136 bugs, 290 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100822 17:28:20< Gambit> Which isn't the same as $side_number
20100822 17:28:43< Gambit> You need to be able to get private messages even if it isn't your turn.
20100822 17:28:49< silene> Gambit: that's a good question, but what i know is that checking the_side.__cfg.controller == "human" is equivalent to to doing the_side.is_human() in c++
20100822 17:28:50< Gambit> The C++ version allows for this.
20100822 17:30:57< Gambit> relavant looking piece of C++: (*resources::teams)[side-1].is_human())
20100822 17:31:23< silene> Gambit: as i said, this is completely equivalent to checking the controller attribute
20100822 17:31:30< Gambit> Hmmm
20100822 17:32:04< Gambit> Ah I think I found a problem in my lua
20100822 17:33:48< Gambit> It works now :)
20100822 17:34:36< Gambit> Should I also make [chat] default to 1 for consistency?
20100822 17:39:09< silene> i don't have a strong opinion on that; while i'm reluctant to modify existing tags, i don't mind new tags being more sensible
20100822 17:41:21< Gambit> Soliton: Is it still important that I mark WML messages?
20100822 17:41:53< Gambit> It seems stupid to me to add a limitation (no matter how small) to legitimate users when malicious ones could bypass it easily anyway.
20100822 17:42:17< Gambit> (That applies to the second ammendment too!)
20100822 17:42:47< Soliton> indeed, which is why it should be done for lua as well.
20100822 17:43:21< Soliton> but we can also wait until someone actually abuses it...
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20100822 17:47:37< silene> Soliton: perhaps a different color? having a "WML" prefix kind of uglifies things (and what does WML mean?)
20100822 17:48:03< Gambit> What about the label color?
20100822 17:48:10< Gambit> *The team only label color
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20100822 17:48:58< Soliton> sounds good. i don't mind how it's done. just some simple way to see the difference.
20100822 17:49:09< silene> Gambit: doesn't that make things worse?
20100822 17:49:22< Gambit> silene: How?
20100822 17:49:26< Gambit> That color is not used in any chat.
20100822 17:50:25< Gambit> AFAIK it only appears in private labels
20100822 17:50:50< silene> Gambit: i know, but Soliton fears it being abused; so using the team color will make it even less obvious to a player that the message doesn't come from a player on the team; or am i misunderstanding?
20100822 17:52:39< Soliton> team label color is one specific blue. not the same as team color.
20100822 17:53:25< zookeeper> use italics or something?
20100822 17:54:55< silene> zookeeper: let's not make it unreadable ;-)
20100822 17:56:26< Soliton> i think some color is best. other formattings could be allowed in chat messages at some point.
20100822 17:57:03 * Gambit evil grin... Yellow?
20100822 17:57:07< zookeeper> well, how about always colouring the sender name in white? in normal chat, even the sender name is TC'd
20100822 17:57:16< zookeeper> so that'd be a subtle distinction
20100822 17:58:11 * Soliton . o O (rainbow color?)
20100822 17:58:14< silene> for what is worth, lua chat messages are already white
20100822 17:58:15< Gambit> I don't think Soliton want's subtle.
20100822 17:58:21< Gambit> *wants
20100822 17:58:30< zookeeper> blinking rainbow colours!
20100822 17:58:37< joo> full rgb colour cycle
20100822 17:58:39< joo> animated
20100822 17:58:57< joo> with glitter effect from MS Word
20100822 17:59:26< Gambit> Okay normal chat is TC'd name + white text
20100822 17:59:32< Gambit> Observer chat is white name + white text
20100822 17:59:40< Gambit> Lua chat is currently the same as observer
20100822 18:00:16< zookeeper> normal chat is TC'd name + white text? i thought it's TC'd name + TC'd text
20100822 18:00:27< Gambit> Nope
20100822 18:00:50< zookeeper> you sure? sounds odd, but i guess i can remember wrong.
20100822 18:01:32< silene> zookeeper: actions are colored, speechs are white
20100822 18:01:55< zookeeper> right
20100822 18:02:16< zookeeper> urgh. the continuing obnoxiousness of this guy's posts is remarkable: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31310
20100822 18:02:42< zookeeper> must be like the tenth time he starts a thread like that, and it's not entirely because of bad english either -.-
20100822 18:03:15< Gambit> So lua could be team-only label colored name + white text?
20100822 18:03:38< Soliton> could be.
20100822 18:03:52< Gambit> I can't think of any other unique text colors in wesnoth
20100822 18:04:07< Gambit> Well acutally there is a brown/tan in the right sidebar
20100822 18:04:16< Gambit> For the attack stats
20100822 18:06:49< Gambit> Are there any mainline campaigns that rely on [gold] defaulting to side 1?
20100822 18:07:38< zookeeper> no idea. would have to check each [gold] tag i guess.
20100822 18:08:05< Gambit> And if there are, is wmllint not regularly run on them anyway?
20100822 18:08:44< zookeeper> AOI:3 is one
20100822 18:08:56< zookeeper> only 177 matches overall, you can check them pretty quickly :)
20100822 18:09:31< silene> according to grep, the tutorial, aoi, and dm, do
20100822 18:09:57< Gambit> Okay if I include fixes for those, can I remove this stupid behavior?
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20100822 18:11:03< zookeeper> fine by me
20100822 18:11:07-!- MeccaGod [~majs@h14n4fls31o279.telia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 18:11:11< Gambit> Defaulting to 1 is not the norm in other tags.
20100822 18:11:16< zookeeper> then just ask esr to add a wmllint check for that and output a warning or something
20100822 18:11:53< Gambit> Actually it seems that in lua tags it is the norm :P
20100822 18:12:08< Gambit> But in Real Men™ tags it isn't :D
20100822 18:12:13< zookeeper> i agree that defaulting to 1 is a pretty useless feature especially when it's supported in so few places that utilizing that feature just makes the code less clear for very minimal benefit...
20100822 18:12:58< Gambit> Nope, not even the norm in lua
20100822 18:13:12< Gambit> Just in [get_team]
20100822 18:13:45< Gambit> And it make sense there (I assume) because you need to have a team
20100822 18:14:04< Gambit> wait that's not a tag, it's a function
20100822 18:14:09< Gambit> So... yeah.
20100822 18:14:15< Gambit> [gold] is the only thing anywhere that does that.
20100822 18:14:31< silene> Gambit: get_team is not a tag, it's a helper function used by [gold], [store_gold], [disallow_recruit], and [set_recruit] (i didn't decide these tags should use the side 1 convention, it just has been like that since the early days)
20100822 18:15:13< Gambit> Ah I should fix [(set|disallow)_recruit] tomorow
20100822 18:15:33< Gambit> Though I'd imagine there are a lot more places in mainline that rely on them defaulting to 1.
20100822 18:17:28-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20100822 18:28:08< Gambit> Hmm I once again need to make two editing the same file in the same spot
20100822 18:33:54< silene> if you are not too afraid by modern version control systems (e.g. git), i suggest using one; they allow to create local branches and hence to perform multiple edits in parallel
20100822 18:35:13< boucman> Gambit: I know git can make patches in the same way sn does, i'm not sure how, though
20100822 18:36:00< Gambit> The wishing well item macro has a [gold] tag with no side
20100822 18:36:07< Gambit> That should be $side_number though shouldn't it?
20100822 18:36:18< Gambit> In case that macro is used in multiplayer.
20100822 18:36:34< silene> boucman: "git diff" if it hasn't been committed yet, "git show" otherwise
20100822 18:36:36< silene> Gambit: yes
20100822 18:36:43< Gambit> The filter in that macro doesn't care who triggers it
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20100822 18:37:06< Soliton> any reason wb mode has shift+p as a hotkey and not just p?
20100822 18:38:37< silene> Gambit: that said, i'm not sure this macro has ever been used
20100822 18:38:44< Gambit> Ha
20100822 18:39:08< silene> perhaps some umc, who knows
20100822 18:41:27< Gambit> Can you use a diff file to remove changes?
20100822 18:41:42< Gambit> I'd like to undo my gold patch after creating it.
20100822 18:41:59< Soliton> patch -R
20100822 18:42:08< silene> yes, if you are using the "patch" command, you can "-R"evert it
20100822 18:48:44< Gambit> Gold patch: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1883
20100822 18:48:52< Gambit> I went through the entire data/ directory
20100822 18:49:13< Gambit> Two matches in tutorial, one in AOI, one in DM, and the wishing well.
20100822 18:52:06-!- anonymissimus [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-095-208-088-086.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 18:52:54< anonymissimus> Gambit: do wanna prove your worth for the BfW project ? :P
20100822 18:53:32< Gambit> anonymissimus: Huh?
20100822 18:53:49< anonymissimus> aren't that your patches ?
20100822 18:54:02< Gambit> Yeah.
20100822 18:54:18< Gambit> Actually I'm being selfish and fixing all the minor things that have always bothered me with WML :D
20100822 18:54:30< Gambit> But if some worth is proven along the way then... :D
20100822 18:54:52< anonymissimus> but [gold] defaulting to all sides in unusual 
20100822 18:55:11< Gambit> does [kill] default to just side one?
20100822 18:55:15< Gambit> What about [message]?
20100822 18:55:21< Gambit> et cetera
20100822 18:55:40< anonymissimus> does [remove_shroud] default to all sides etc
20100822 18:56:21< Soliton> i think the main point is that defaulting to all sides is more intuitive.
20100822 18:56:28< anonymissimus> well maybe you should ask what default is wanted
20100822 18:56:33< Gambit> anonymissimus: I'll put that on my todo list ;)
20100822 18:56:57< anonymissimus> and when implementing new tags
20100822 18:57:02< Gambit> Err [remove_shound] that is.
20100822 18:57:09< anonymissimus> it is per default done in lua
20100822 18:57:49< silene> for side 1, there are [allow_recruit], [modify_side], [store_side], [move_unit_fake], [unit], [store_starting_location], [remove_shroud], [place_shroud], the four i already mentioned earlier, and possibly some others
20100822 18:58:10< silene> Soliton: it may be more intuitive, but most of the tags actually default ot side 1
20100822 18:59:26< Gambit> Well I've figured out how to fix that in both LUA and C++ now. I guess I can fix one tag a day if that is wanted.
20100822 18:59:35< anonymissimus> I guess it is because Gambit is usually working for multiplayer not sp
20100822 18:59:40< Soliton> i think it's more important to be intuitive for new comers. WML veterans will be able to adjust.
20100822 19:00:17< Gambit> Though things like [modify_side] and [store_side] make sense
20100822 19:00:21< anonymissimus> I'd first try to make the commits good
20100822 19:00:31< Gambit> And [move_unit_fake]
20100822 19:00:33< Gambit> and [unit]
20100822 19:00:35< silene> Soliton: but what about tags that work on only one side? making them work on all sides don't make sense
20100822 19:00:39< Gambit> You need to have a single side for those.
20100822 19:00:43< anonymissimus> sileen always finds some mistakes in mine :P
20100822 19:01:22< Soliton> silene: well, of course then all sides is not more intuitive. :-)
20100822 19:01:52< Gambit> Placing and removing shroud definitely need changed. As do allowing and disallowing recruits.
20100822 19:01:58< Gambit> The rest only deal with single sides.
20100822 19:02:03< Soliton> anyhow, i'm just giving outside opinion. i'm not invested in WML etc.
20100822 19:03:01< anonymissimus> place/remove shroud needs no change in sp then
20100822 19:03:36< anonymissimus> the others do, wmllint would need a routine
20100822 19:03:57< Gambit> anonymissimus: How will it tell SP from MP?
20100822 19:04:07< Gambit> And making tags work differently depending on what it is is not good.
20100822 19:04:59< Gambit> And yes wmllint does need changes, but I was going to wait to see if my gold patch even goes through before poking 3sr
20100822 19:05:10< anonymissimus> Gambit>	And making tags work differently depending on what it is is not good. : not what I want
20100822 19:09:33< anonymissimus> Gambit: if it goes through please just don't forget to add such default changes to the "important syntax changes" thread
20100822 19:10:07< Gambit> Gotcha
20100822 19:11:57< Gambit> Do we have a thread like that for 1.9 yet?
20100822 19:12:13< Gambit> Oh that will come with 1.10. Nevermind.
20100822 19:12:53< anonymissimus> no but ideally it should be made when the things aren changed, it'll be forgotten when 1.10 comes
20100822 19:13:38< anonymissimus> as you should edit the wiki at the same time
20100822 19:14:43< anonymissimus> you can do if not side_list btw
20100822 19:15:02< anonymissimus> in the gold patch
20100822 19:20:34< zookeeper> silene, what i think is reasonable is to throw an error if no side is specified when the tag logically works only on one side, and to default to all sides when the tag can work on multiple sides
20100822 19:20:53< zookeeper> i personally hate the side 1 kind of defaults ;)
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20100822 19:23:11< zookeeper> although i guess i wouldn't exactly mind if side 1 would continue to be the default in the former cases
20100822 19:23:34< silene> zookeeper: agreed (and if wesnoth had not jut sp in mind in the early days, it would have been the sensible choice then); if there are enough wml designers who are fine with the change, then i'm fine too
20100822 19:26:03< zookeeper> silene, i don't really know about UMC authors, but i'd imagine that even they rarely rely on those defaults. anyway, if a wmllint rule can be added for those cases, then i don't see any problem with making such a change.
20100822 19:27:46< anonymissimus> what Gambit bufgs will then basically bug campaign authors
20100822 19:28:00< anonymissimus> we need to insetz side= everywhere
20100822 19:28:04< anonymissimus> insert
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20100822 19:28:21< anonymissimus> and I rely on defaults :P
20100822 19:28:26< zookeeper> really?
20100822 19:28:59< zookeeper> i think we had this discussion very recently already ;)
20100822 19:29:12< anonymissimus> well it shifts the additional arfument from multiplayer to singleplayer
20100822 19:29:43< anonymissimus> yes If I would not rely on defaults I would not discover if they are bugged
20100822 19:31:04< anonymissimus> well I'm fine with changing the gold tag and maybe one or two others that are most useful for you Gambit but not too many pls
20100822 19:33:29< Soliton> is that readable to have no side be side 1?
20100822 19:34:27< Gambit> I have planned: [allow_recruit], [disallow_recruit], [place_shroud], [remove_shroud], and I think that's it.
20100822 19:35:02< zookeeper> Soliton, that's why i never rely on those defaults
20100822 19:35:48< Gambit> anonymissimus: But, of course, there is no 100% guarantee that I will even be capable of fixing those.
20100822 19:38:15< anonymissimus> Gambit: I would try in lua, the recruit tags should be doable with get_side like you already did
20100822 19:39:42< silene> if i remember correctly, [allow_recruit] is not yet doable, since it has a side effect: adding the unit types to the help
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20100822 20:09:22< Gambit> Okay I just updated https://gna.org/patch/index.php?1876 with the lua version.
20100822 20:09:28< Gambit> It will probably conflict with the gold patch.
20100822 20:10:19< Gambit> So I guess I get to laugh at the "patch monkey" again. :)
20100822 20:17:18< Gambit> Some day when I actually know what I'm doing I'd love to make an on_chat event.
20100822 20:17:30< Gambit> But that would probably be very dangerous.
20100822 20:18:49< Gambit> And it'd require that chatting be enabled in SP and local games.
20100822 20:20:42< silene> i'm currently adding these kinds of events, though it didn't even occur to me to add an on_chat event; what would you use it for?
20100822 20:21:03< Gambit> textual commands
20100822 20:21:15< Gambit> A useless chatter bot
20100822 20:21:28< Gambit> Smarter AI allies
20100822 20:21:38< Gambit> Well a way to give AI allies commands anyway
20100822 20:22:08< silene> you can already do it, just put a menu item that displays a dialog box for instance
20100822 20:22:18< Gambit> Yes I know.
20100822 20:22:38< boucman> I think it makes sense to have chat enabled in SP...
20100822 20:22:54< Gambit> An on_chat event has no advantages over a set_menu_item with a text_input box.
20100822 20:23:01< Gambit> It's just cooler. :)
20100822 20:23:24< boucman> if we want the WML/AI to do some interaction that way (like directing the AI or the AI reporting stuff/alies giving clue in non-obtrusive way) we'll need it
20100822 20:23:26< Gambit> Well actually it has one difference, but you might not consider this an advantage — it'd allow for altering the game state when it isn't your turn.
20100822 20:24:12< Gambit> Real time wesnoth anyone?
20100822 20:24:16< joo> lol
20100822 20:25:06< Gambit> ^So yeah, probably not an advantage. Just a very easy way to bug things up. ^_^
20100822 20:25:09< silene> hmm... i broke saving of the test scenario, and i have absolutely no idea why; there is a wml variable with an empty name in the savefile
20100822 20:37:06< silene> in fact i didn't, Upthorn did; but strangely enough, it's one of my commits that was found by git bisect
20100822 20:39:13< CIA-35> silene * r45947 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Fixed test scenario producing broken savefiles.
20100822 20:52:57< Upthorn> silene: I did not make that change.
20100822 20:54:10< silene> Upthorn: you did, in revision 45084
20100822 20:55:10< Upthorn> I thought I named it different, and I remember with certainty removing the $s from the "name=" lines. But I guess I'm remembering wrong.
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20100822 21:01:11< shadowmaster> Gambit: 
20100822 21:01:13< shadowmaster> shikadibot: repo
20100822 21:01:13< shikadibot> Repository URI: http://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth
20100822 21:01:20< shadowmaster> shikadibot: dir /
20100822 21:01:20< shikadibot> Web interface URL to directory /: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/
20100822 21:02:02< shadowmaster> the repository used by shikadibot depends on the request source channel. Hence SVN commands are not supported in private queries
20100822 21:02:23< Gambit> Ah
20100822 21:02:50< shadowmaster> "repo" gives the best URI for anonymous checkouts using the SVN client
20100822 21:03:48< shadowmaster> there's also a svn:// URI for the Gna.org repository but I've heard that some people have had problems with it in the past
20100822 21:04:13< shadowmaster> so the most reliable services appear to be the http transport and svn+ssh (authenticated)
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20100822 21:24:21< shadowmaster> I have a proposal for DW's support thread: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/fvYiwFxz
20100822 21:24:52< shadowmaster> since apparently we can't reach a consensus of who is the person to be the official maintainer for it
20100822 21:26:17< Gambit> shadowmaster: Just what is involved in that job?
20100822 21:26:31< zookeeper> the link to PatchSubmissionGuidelines seems potentially confusing to people who might be interested
20100822 21:26:35< Gambit> Now that I'm familiar with patches and what not...
20100822 21:26:49< shadowmaster> okay, then the PSG link can go
20100822 21:26:58< Gambit> shadowmaster: The person would just have to keep it up to date with WML syntax changes?
20100822 21:27:10< Gambit> (and fix bugs)
20100822 21:27:36< shadowmaster> exactly why are you asking me
20100822 21:27:47< Gambit> Because you made the thingamabob
20100822 21:27:56< Gambit> zookeeper: Same question
20100822 21:27:56< shadowmaster> it's called propsal
20100822 21:28:04< shadowmaster> *proposal
20100822 21:28:15< Gambit> Because I can't balance, translate, draw, make decisions, or anything like that.
20100822 21:28:25< Gambit> But I'd gladly fix bugs that get reported and keep things up to date
20100822 21:28:44< zookeeper> anyone can balance
20100822 21:29:00< Soliton> (as good as zookeeper)
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20100822 21:30:19< zookeeper> ?
20100822 21:31:21< zookeeper> i'll be polite and assume that wasn't a snarky remark that i can't balance (good) ;)
20100822 21:32:03< Soliton> s/polite/naive/ :-P
20100822 21:33:04-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100822 21:33:08< zookeeper> no, it's definitely out of politeness, not naiveness :P
20100822 21:33:40-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 21:34:52< Soliton> Gambit: just start fixing bugs and post patches and before you know it you'll have svn access and a few campaigns to maintain.
20100822 21:36:05 * shadowmaster . O o (hopefully there aren't many important bugs after I took care of mainlining it...)
20100822 21:36:11< zookeeper> yeah, and then a few campaigns more even if you don't want to
20100822 21:37:48-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-182-55-97.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 21:38:09< Gambit> Are there any currently?
20100822 21:38:21< Gambit> Oh yeah there's one right at the top of bugs.wesnoth.org
20100822 21:38:54< Gambit> Well that's a strange one.
20100822 21:39:18< stikonas> Ivanovic: can you tell me your KDE version?
20100822 21:40:33< stikonas> I think that KDE 4.5.0 caused desktop effects to stop working on my machine
20100822 21:42:38-!- ancestral [~ancestral@mobile-166-137-142-113.mycingular.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100822 21:44:06< Gambit> something tells me this has nothing to do with dead water :)
20100822 21:44:07< Gambit> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16513
20100822 21:47:24< Soliton> maybe an outdated data dir.
20100822 21:55:35-!- dtiger [~dtiger@dynamic-vpdn-87-252-255-194.telecom.by] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100822 21:56:44< Ivanovic> 4.4.5 atm
20100822 22:04:14< Blueblaze> shadowmaster: Why do you wish to close down #wensoth-music ?
20100822 22:04:28< shadowmaster> why do you ask me here
20100822 22:04:52< Blueblaze> because you're allegedly the only person who can control anything 
20100822 22:04:55< shadowmaster> I'm already explaining it to you in the channel
20100822 22:05:02< Blueblaze> the channel is closed becaues of you
20100822 22:05:07< Blueblaze> so we have to discuss it here unfortunately
20100822 22:05:26< shadowmaster> you aren't telling me that it's used by any mainline musician anymore, right?
20100822 22:05:44< shadowmaster> I am seeing weeks of off-topic talk, mainly between you and ancestral.
20100822 22:05:45< Blueblaze> There are mainline musicians in the channel
20100822 22:05:57< Blueblaze> And mainline musicians visit the channel
20100822 22:05:58< shadowmaster> the Music & Sound Development thread has been already dropped, so are the links in the wiki
20100822 22:06:07< Blueblaze> People come and request information about Wesnoth's music and we instantly help them out
20100822 22:06:08< shadowmaster> one? who never speaks.
20100822 22:06:23< Blueblaze> What is the point? We're not causing harm and we service anyone who comes in requesting information about Wesnoth's music
20100822 22:06:25< ancestral> Is that our problem people aren't coming to the channel?
20100822 22:06:26< shadowmaster> sorry, but that's not in my backlog and I have observed the channel every day.
20100822 22:06:50< shadowmaster> you are not causing harm other than reserving a channel that's supposedly about Wesnoth when 99% of the time it isn't
20100822 22:06:53< Blueblaze> The channel is available for use, and priority is always given to comments and questions about Wesnoth's music
20100822 22:07:14< shadowmaster> well, that's not the case anymore.
20100822 22:07:26< Blueblaze> Because you've dictated otherwised?
20100822 22:07:27< Blueblaze> Okay
20100822 22:07:54< Blueblaze> Why don't you close down half of the #wesnoth channels because they're not on-topic 99% of the time
20100822 22:07:59< ancestral> shadowmaster: If we left would you keep the channel open?
20100822 22:08:06< shadowmaster> no
20100822 22:08:11< ancestral> ^ that is true
20100822 22:08:13< Blueblaze> I opened the channel, and administrated it for over a year
20100822 22:08:23< Blueblaze> I managed it, and you're coming around closing it because you feel like it
20100822 22:08:33< shadowmaster> Blueblaze: I see that #wesnoth, #wesnoth-dev, #wesnoth-mp, #wesnoth-umc-dev, #wesnoth-umc-dev-admins are on-topic most of the time
20100822 22:08:45< Blueblaze> Those aren't all the #wesnoth-* channels in existance
20100822 22:08:48< Blueblaze> that's probably not even half
20100822 22:08:55< shadowmaster> so don't come to make a jerk of yourself only because you are manging it as a personal channel.
20100822 22:09:09< shadowmaster> you can always move to ##blueblaze or so
20100822 22:10:17< shadowmaster> #wesnoth-writing was closed as well after being either empty or silent for a long while. Fortunately there was nobody there indulging on personal use of a Wesnoth facility.
20100822 22:10:45< ancestral> shadowmaster: Why close dead channels?
20100822 22:10:52< shadowmaster> and if you are going to point at #wesnoth-umc-dev, keep in mind that I'm currently considering moving off-topic chatter to #wesnoth-umc-dev.
20100822 22:10:56< shadowmaster> I mean ##shadowm
20100822 22:11:05< shadowmaster> ancestral: because they are dead.
20100822 22:11:10< Blueblaze> The difference is #wesnoth-music isn't silent or empty or dead
20100822 22:11:13< Blueblaze> It is a very active channel
20100822 22:11:25< shadowmaster> for off-topic talk, again.
20100822 22:11:32< shadowmaster> if you are going to ignore all that I've said above, so be it
20100822 22:12:07< ancestral> I like how you're coming in with guns ablazing
20100822 22:12:19< ancestral> This is typically not the best way to do these things
20100822 22:12:37< shadowmaster> don't tell me that I didn't warn you a year ago :)
20100822 22:12:51< ancestral> You've said you didn't care
20100822 22:13:08< ancestral> And one day you come by, change your mind, and exact policy
20100822 22:13:10< shadowmaster> again, #wesnoth-music doesn't represent the interests of the Battle for Wesnoth Project, so it doesn't make sense for it to reserve part of the Wesnoth namespace.
20100822 22:13:26< Blueblaze> shadowmaster: says who?
20100822 22:13:26< Gambit> Cylanna == most useless unit ever
20100822 22:13:37< Gambit> Or at least the RNG is making her into the most useless unit ever...
20100822 22:13:41< shadowmaster> Blueblaze: me.
20100822 22:13:49< Blueblaze> We have always given priority to any conversation or questions that concern Wesnoth's music
20100822 22:13:57< Blueblaze> Therefore, that doesn't represent the interns of BfW?
20100822 22:14:03< shadowmaster> I know how to read. Don't repeat that to me.
20100822 22:14:04< Blueblaze> Sounds like it doesn't represent the interests of you
20100822 22:14:04< ancestral> I'm not particularly happy with the way you're handling this, shadowmaster
20100822 22:14:05< Blueblaze> not the project
20100822 22:14:29-!- West [~Administr@hd5e2754c.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 22:14:32< ancestral> I would appreciate input from another administrator
20100822 22:14:53< shadowmaster> again, why can't you keep your personal talk in private, or move to a different channel?
20100822 22:14:58< shadowmaster> you have not answered that question.
20100822 22:15:05< Blueblaze> you don't do that
20100822 22:15:07< Blueblaze> why should we?
20100822 22:15:16< shadowmaster> 16:10:52 <shadowmaster> and if you are going to point at #wesnoth-umc-dev, keep in mind that I'm currently considering moving off-topic chatter to  #wesnoth-umc-dev.
20100822 22:15:17< Blueblaze> #wesnoth-umc-dev is clearly your private channel
20100822 22:15:19< shadowmaster> 16:10:56 <shadowmaster> I mean ##shadowm
20100822 22:15:23< Blueblaze> okay
20100822 22:15:26< Blueblaze> but you haven't
20100822 22:15:29< shadowmaster> then you aren't reading.
20100822 22:15:38< Blueblaze> so why randomly close down an active channel when you're being an admitted hypocrite yourself
20100822 22:16:08< Blueblaze> considering to do something doesn't mean you actually have done it or will do it
20100822 22:16:16< shadowmaster> if you read the logs for #wesnoth-umc-dev you'll notice that most of the time it's either silent or filled with questions regarding the forums, WML, or wesnoth-umc-dev
20100822 22:16:26< Blueblaze> No it's not
20100822 22:16:34< ancestral> No transition period, no room for any kind of discussion, no input from other admins…
20100822 22:16:58< shadowmaster> the input from the other admin is "I didn't know it even existed"
20100822 22:17:00< ancestral> :-(
20100822 22:17:18< Gambit> wesnoth-umc-dev is almost always about wesnoth
20100822 22:17:54< loonycyborg> wesnoth-umc-dev *does* have WML development related discussion.
20100822 22:18:05< Gambit> [blatant lies]And when it isn't it's wesnoth members helping each other fix computer problems so they can play more wesnoth![/blatant lies]
20100822 22:18:18< loonycyborg> As long as that is true little off-topic won't hurt..
20100822 22:18:47< shadowmaster> we also have wesnoth-umc-dev commit notifications! and forum git repo notifications
20100822 22:19:29< Elvish_Pillage2> yes... #wesnoth-umc-dev is definitely useful to the people directly involved in it
20100822 22:26:57< zookeeper> umm, what the heck does "closing a channel" even mean here?
20100822 22:27:15< zookeeper> magically prevent people from joining such a channel at all?
20100822 22:27:25< Gambit> making it invite only and forwarding it to somewhere
20100822 22:27:31< shadowmaster> and redirecting them to #wesnoth
20100822 22:27:50< zookeeper> wait, what sense does that make?
20100822 22:28:10< shadowmaster> that's really only for idlers who have it in their autojoin lists
20100822 22:28:43< Soliton> i believe that doesn't really answer the question.
20100822 22:29:13< shadowmaster> I think it does make sense.
20100822 22:29:18< Elvish_Pillage2> I can't figure out what sense it makes either
20100822 22:29:20< shadowmaster> it's also standard practice in this network.
20100822 22:29:24< Elvish_Pillage2> (and I've read the whole discussion)
20100822 22:29:48< Soliton> non-sequitors can make as much sense as they want. :-)
20100822 22:30:48< Soliton> anyway, what do people do when they want to chat about wesnoth music now?
20100822 22:30:48< zookeeper> shadowmaster, maybe you could explain why it's better to prevent anyone from joining some channel than to allow people to join whatever channel they want
20100822 22:30:59< Soliton> is it useful to make them use wesnoth as well in any way?
20100822 22:31:01< shadowmaster> they join #wesnoth
20100822 22:31:05< Soliton> #wesnoth i mean.
20100822 22:31:11< shadowmaster> not that many people want to talk about wesnoth music
20100822 22:31:37< Elvish_Pillage2> it seems like if people want to talk about wesnoth music, they should be able to do so in the obvious channel and without interference from unrelated chat
20100822 22:31:44< shadowmaster> zookeeper: hm, "is this dead?" , "hello?", "bla blah blah <no reply>"
20100822 22:31:56< Elvish_Pillage2> which... if Blueblaze is to believed, is exactly what #wesnoth-music was
20100822 22:32:15< Elvish_Pillage2> (and which #wesnoth isn't)
20100822 22:32:25< zookeeper> shadowmaster, and how does that happen if every link pointing to that channel mentions that it's unofficial and might be dead?
20100822 22:32:36< zookeeper> and if it does happen even despite that, then who the hell cares?
20100822 22:32:48< shadowmaster> I did say its mainly for idling people.
20100822 22:33:11< shadowmaster> and unofficial channels, per policy, should be in the ##* namespace, not #*
20100822 22:34:37-!- ancestral [~ancestral@mobile-166-137-142-113.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi]
20100822 22:34:50-!- ancestral [~ancestral@206.55.180.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 22:35:15< zookeeper> urgh.
20100822 22:36:19-!- Octalot [~noct@cpc2-hitc1-0-0-cust727.9-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 22:36:23< zookeeper> so everyone just needs to go to ##wesnoth-music instead and update all references to #wesnoth-music accordingly, and then there's no problem?
20100822 22:37:54< shadowmaster> #wesnoth works as well.
20100822 22:38:04< Elvish_Pillage2> it's not free of unrelated chat when you need to use it
20100822 22:38:13< shadowmaster> do we really need a #wesnoth-foo channel for every wesnoth subtopic?
20100822 22:38:27< shadowmaster> and why should mainline/UMC music be considered off-topic for #wesnoth?
20100822 22:38:39< Soliton> it isn't.
20100822 22:38:46< Soliton> nobody said that afaict.
20100822 22:39:05< Soliton> so what exactly again is the harm in #wesnoth-music?
20100822 22:39:08< shadowmaster> then music isn't "unrelated chat"
20100822 22:39:22< Soliton> indeed.
20100822 22:39:22< Elvish_Pillage2> In that message, I meant chat unrelated to music
20100822 22:39:26< shadowmaster> not being Wesnoth-related anymore? :P
20100822 22:39:32< zookeeper> so everyone just needs to go to ##wesnoth-music instead and update all references to #wesnoth-music accordingly, and then there's no problem?
20100822 22:39:35< Elvish_Pillage2> or specifically wesnoth music
20100822 22:39:40< Soliton> and closing it down helps that how?
20100822 22:39:52< shadowmaster> zookeeper: I said #wesnoth works as well.
20100822 22:40:03< Soliton> zookeeper: yes.
20100822 22:40:12< zookeeper> shadowmaster, you didn't answer the question though
20100822 22:40:13< zookeeper> right
20100822 22:40:31 * shadowmaster . O o (sheesh, everyone making a big deal of a channel populated by 2 active users, 2 other half-active users, and a few eternal idlers)
20100822 22:40:56< Soliton> clearly you're missing the point.
20100822 22:40:57< shadowmaster> 8 people to be exact.
20100822 22:41:00< zookeeper> i'm making a big deal of someone making problems for those users for no real reason... :p
20100822 22:41:03 * shadowmaster shrugs.
20100822 22:41:09< Soliton> your actions make the deal.
20100822 22:41:56< Elvish_Pillage2> well, it's not a "big deal" in the grand scheme of things, but I can't believe you think it's not worth a half-hour's discussion when there's been a great deal more than a half-hour's discussion on the channel in question
20100822 22:41:59-!- Gallaecio_ is now known as Gallaecio
20100822 22:42:08< Soliton> so, any issue with returning #wesnoth-music to a normal channel?
20100822 22:42:42< shadowmaster> only if it stops being used all the time for off-topic talk between two people.
20100822 22:43:03< loonycyborg> It's what PM is for :P
20100822 22:43:07< Soliton> what kind of condition is that?
20100822 22:43:19< Soliton> is that like a threat?
20100822 22:43:23< Elvish_Pillage2> loonycyborg: I like overhearing their conversations though :p
20100822 22:43:39< Blueblaze> Elvish_Pillage2: And butting in at random moments :p
20100822 22:43:44< shadowmaster> it's not a threat. It's just a condition for making the channel useful at all
20100822 22:43:57< Blueblaze> Even though it is quite a bit more than just two people that talk
20100822 22:44:04< Soliton> how so?
20100822 22:44:22< Soliton> it was mentioned several times that wesnoth music talk gets priority there-
20100822 22:44:38< shadowmaster> and that happens like once every two months for a couple of minutes
20100822 22:44:47< loonycyborg> It could also use more wesnoth music developer presense :P
20100822 22:44:59< Elvish_Pillage2> shadowmaster: and that's not enough for it to be "useful at all"?
20100822 22:44:59< Soliton> how is that relevant?
20100822 22:45:02< Gambit> You know what it needs?
20100822 22:45:07-!- DDR [~DDR@d99-199-12-91.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 22:45:11< Gambit> It needs subscribed to the music forum :)
20100822 22:45:27-!- DDR [~DDR@d99-199-12-91.bchsia.telus.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20100822 22:45:29< zookeeper> shadowmaster, why do you care? i see no other reason for all this other than the fact that you don't like it
20100822 22:45:31< shadowmaster> okay, if you want a dead wasteland in the wesnoth namespace, so be it.
20100822 22:45:41< zookeeper> yippee
20100822 22:45:53< shadowmaster> says the person who has never been there
20100822 22:45:57< zookeeper> sure i have
20100822 22:46:01< zookeeper> i got the logs to prove it
20100822 22:46:09< Blueblaze> ^
20100822 22:46:19< shadowmaster> how long ago?
20100822 22:46:25< zookeeper> in 2008
20100822 22:46:27< Soliton> (again not relevant, btw ;-))
20100822 22:46:45< zookeeper> anyway, if the problem's solved then great, i'll go feed a dog...
20100822 22:48:32< shadowmaster> Gambit: don't tell me your client tries to join channels you are kicked from every 1 second? :/
20100822 22:48:49< Gambit> shadowmaster: No, I just tried to manually joined.
20100822 22:48:57< Gambit> *join
20100822 22:49:43< Gambit> shadowmaster: Unless... it doesn't show me the auto rejoins?
20100822 22:49:50< Gambit> shadowmaster: Are you seeing auto rejoins?
20100822 22:49:58< shadowmaster> no
20100822 22:50:20< shadowmaster> a bunch of people tried to join manually while I was trying to remove the RESTRICTED flag
20100822 22:50:32< Blueblaze> Then obviously people are using the channel
20100822 22:50:37< Blueblaze> I'm just saying :z
20100822 22:52:29< shadowmaster> you 4 people
20100822 22:52:43< shadowmaster> and Elvish_Pillage2, who likes to stalk you ;)
20100822 22:52:51< Elvish_Pillage2> well....
20100822 22:52:53< shadowmaster> no, janebot doesn't count
20100822 22:53:05< Elvish_Pillage2> it's more like Blueblaze drags me everywhere :)
20100822 22:54:34< Gambit> I wonder if the developers would like a subscription to forum number 2 in here.
20100822 22:54:42< Gambit> Developers?
20100822 22:54:56< shadowmaster> hm, no
20100822 22:55:04< shadowmaster> which one is that?
20100822 22:55:09< Gambit> Developer Discussion
20100822 22:55:11< Gambit> (restricted)
20100822 22:55:49< shadowmaster> there are some people here who don't even read the forums. Most "important" talk occurs on the mailing list and on IRC.
20100822 22:55:59< shadowmaster> now, talk involving attachments, takes place in DD.
20100822 22:56:20< shadowmaster> either that, or people who want to make stuff known to regular users, or who don't use IRC.
20100822 22:56:43< shadowmaster> so there isn't much to see in regards to new threads. There's exactly 1 active thread there this year.
20100822 22:57:00< shadowmaster> (i.e. regular posts every week)
20100822 22:57:27< Gambit> So those who don't like to actively check the forums would never do so in vain again :)
20100822 22:57:59< shadowmaster> email subscriptions? RSS feeds? :(
20100822 22:58:03< shadowmaster> I mean atom.
20100822 22:58:08< Soliton> sounds like a good oportunity to try and see if it gets too annoying.
20100822 22:58:42< shadowmaster> I'd like subscriptions for the hidden forum, except that naturally it is hidden.
20100822 22:59:40< shadowmaster> I have not checked yet if Atom feeds would impose any security risks in 3.0.7-PL1, although that release was precisely intended to patch a related vulnerability in 3.0.7.
20100822 22:59:45< Gambit> SMF allows hidden feeds if the reader is capable of logging in.
20100822 23:00:15< Gambit> But you'd need another feed bot for that :(
20100822 23:00:34< shadowmaster> I suppose we could test that with the Staging Area forum
20100822 23:01:08< shadowmaster> Gambit: but, please, please, could you rename your bot to something more creative? :P
20100822 23:01:25< Gambit> shadowmaster: You've never read Speaker have you?
20100822 23:01:36< Gambit> It's a bot that whispers in your ear and reports things.
20100822 23:01:39< Gambit> And it has a sense of humor.
20100822 23:01:45< Gambit> Who could it be, but Jane?
20100822 23:01:47-!- MeccaGod [~majs@h14n4fls31o279.telia.com] has quit []
20100822 23:02:06< shadowmaster> :(
20100822 23:02:20-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100822 23:02:33< Gambit> Of course if it were allowed in here I'd probably cut a large part of its sense of humor in order to make it more... professional.
20100822 23:02:44< shadowmaster> meh, too bad "jane" is registered by an active account or I'd have suggested to rename it to jane
20100822 23:03:02< shadowmaster> no possibility of asking it to be dropped either.
20100822 23:03:06< Gambit> Doesn't freenode require that bots identify themselves as such?
20100822 23:03:23< ancestral> It might be nice to know who is a bot and who isn't
20100822 23:03:34< shadowmaster> I think hostname or username/ident response hints are enough
20100822 23:03:39< shadowmaster> or gecos field hints
20100822 23:04:08< shadowmaster> your bot has hints all over its client data
20100822 23:05:32< shadowmaster> but yeah, I guess you can't get more creative than "lobby", "loony", "wes" and "shikadi"
20100822 23:05:39-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-176-19.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 23:07:40< shadowmaster> Gambit: there, staging area has an Atom feed now
20100822 23:07:51< shadowmaster> http://forums.wesnoth.org/feed.php?f=33
20100822 23:10:23< Gambit> shadowmaster: Of course this would allow users to see who posted in the hidden forum, and the topic titles
20100822 23:10:27-!- West [~Administr@hd5e2754c.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100822 23:10:37< shadowmaster> you think so?
20100822 23:10:57< Gambit> Err yeah...
20100822 23:11:08< shadowmaster> IIRC the vulnerability fix I mentioned above was precisley to forbid non authetnicated/authenticated users without the relevant "View forum" permission to get the RSS feed
20100822 23:11:11< Gambit> I can't tell what kind of question that was; some sort of sarcasm?
20100822 23:11:11< shadowmaster> I mean Atom
20100822 23:11:19< shadowmaster> no
20100822 23:11:22< Gambit> shadowmaster: When the bot reports them.
20100822 23:11:36< Gambit> It displays topic title and post author
20100822 23:11:41< shadowmaster> but you said your bot doesn't log in as you?
20100822 23:11:52< Gambit> Well it will need to now
20100822 23:11:53< shadowmaster> and Staging Area only has view permission for the Shady Test People
20100822 23:12:16< shadowmaster> I thought you wanted to test whether the above vulnerability was really fixed properly :/
20100822 23:12:34< Gambit> shadowmaster: I thought you genuinly wanted reporting on a hidden forum.
20100822 23:12:48< Gambit> But yeah the vulnerability *was* fixed
20100822 23:13:00< shadowmaster> yes, but that's another hidden forum which you don't have access to since you aren't Forum Moderator or Developer
20100822 23:13:06< shadowmaster> or Global Moderator or Administrator
20100822 23:13:32< shadowmaster> Staging Area notifications are useless since I tend to dump garbage there when testing stuff.
20100822 23:13:36< Gambit> Okay then testing complete
20100822 23:14:33< shadowmaster> and actually we wouldn't want topic titles or authors in a public channel anyway, in case they give away Further Information I'm Now Allowed To Disclose At This Time
20100822 23:15:16< Gambit> Which was why I pointed that out.
20100822 23:16:17< Gambit> I'd also have to disallow searching those forums and skip over them when reporting a particular user's last post.
20100822 23:16:22< shadowmaster> conversation over. You got me confused. :S
20100822 23:16:59< Gambit> shadowmaster: I pointed out that it would report topic titles because I didn't think you'd considered that yet.
20100822 23:17:04< Gambit> Make sense?
20100822 23:17:28< Gambit> Anyway... yes/no on forum 2?
20100822 23:17:37< shadowmaster> yes.
20100822 23:17:48< shadowmaster> it's ow-traffic anyway, so it shouldn't get very annoying here.
20100822 23:17:52< shadowmaster> I mean low-traffic.
20100822 23:18:01-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 23:18:18< Gambit> janebot: !subscribe-channel 2;w
20100822 23:18:19< janebot> Started your subscription.
20100822 23:18:32< Gambit> If she gets annoying just tell her janebot: !part #wesnoth-dev
20100822 23:18:50< boucman>   what does she do ?
20100822 23:18:50< Gambit> you know; if there's a sudden rush of interest in DD :)
20100822 23:19:06< shadowmaster> boucman: read the Developers' Discussion forum Atom feed and report on new posts here
20100822 23:19:11< Gambit> boucman: She checks every 10 minutes for new posts on the forums and reports those posts to subscribers
20100822 23:19:24< shadowmaster> due to a phpBB quirk she'll also report on Global Announcements.
20100822 23:19:25< boucman> kay...
20100822 23:19:29< Gambit> She also has a help :)
20100822 23:21:57< CIA-35> silene * r45949 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp scripting/lua.cpp scripting/lua.hpp): Allowed [lua] tags at scenario level. Added a hook for saving custom data.
20100822 23:21:57< CIA-35> silene * r45950 /trunk/src/scripting/ (lua.cpp lua.hpp): Implemented handlers for save and load events.
20100822 23:22:01< CIA-35> silene * r45951 /trunk/data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Removed objectives from WML variables and put them inside toplevel tags.
20100822 23:22:02< CIA-35> silene * r45948 /trunk/src/ (gamestatus.cpp play_controller.cpp team.cpp team.hpp): Fixed crash when setting sides in the wrong order.
20100822 23:22:04< CIA-35> silene * r45952 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Improved comparison of boolean values.
20100822 23:22:47< shadowmaster> Gambit: if you (really, really, REALLY) need any further customization regarding her permissions, now there's a dedicated Forum Service group to which that kind of thing can belong.
20100822 23:23:09< Gambit> Well right now it doesn't log into the forums at all.
20100822 23:23:28< Gambit> But perhaps some day when I can be trusted with hidden forums that will be useful.
20100822 23:23:28< shadowmaster> it's currently used only by the DT umbrella account.
20100822 23:24:20< shadowmaster> I wish that attachments bot could be brought back to life.
20100822 23:25:03< shadowmaster> if there's anything in the HTML parser schema(ta) that needs to be fixed I could figure it out, although I am currently not able to provide a server to run that.
20100822 23:26:07-!- ancestral [~ancestral@206.55.180.8] has quit [Quit: i go sleeps kthxbai]
20100822 23:26:25< Gambit> What attachments bot?
20100822 23:26:54< Gambit> The one that logged images on the wiki?
20100822 23:27:22< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: is it possible to add some message in the windows installed?
20100822 23:27:54< Ivanovic> something like "after installing wesnoth it might be required that you reboot your system to have fonts work correctly" or the likes
20100822 23:28:05< shadowmaster> Gambit: yes
20100822 23:28:19-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 137 bugs, 290 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100822 23:28:24< shadowmaster> I'm not sure who was in charge of it. There's a convoluted history behind it
20100822 23:29:10-!- thespaceinvader [~chatzilla@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]]
20100822 23:29:27< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: That is possible, but does reboot actually consistently solve that issue?
20100822 23:30:19< loonycyborg> It looks really fishy to me. Maybe it's some pango bug, or interference from some other silly app like anti-virus.
20100822 23:32:39< silene> loonycyborg: yes, it's strange, but i have heard several times about rebooting windows as the way to fix it
20100822 23:32:44< loonycyborg> In any case I've never had that happen either natively in windows, in virtualbox or when running from wine..
20100822 23:33:18< silene> perhaps some antivirus
20100822 23:33:45-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 23:36:06-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20100822 23:36:07< loonycyborg> I doubt that a message in installer will have much impact since people aren't reading what the installer says generally.
20100822 23:36:13< loonycyborg> But I'll consider it.
20100822 23:37:41-!- Sapient [~sapient@wesnoth/developer/sapient] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 23:47:24-!- ancestral [~ancestral@206.55.180.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 23:52:19-!- TheBuzzSaw [~buzz@75-174-85-170.bois.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100822 23:52:23< TheBuzzSaw> whoa
20100822 23:52:26< TheBuzzSaw> lively bunch in here
20100822 23:52:43< joo> You've only been in for a few minutes
20100822 23:52:47< joo> Seconds ,even
20100822 23:52:53< joo> What do you want?
20100822 23:53:23< TheBuzzSaw> I just meant the long list of users XD
20100822 23:53:25< joo> And that's ambiguous
20100822 23:53:38< joo> Oh. Carry on then.
20100822 23:53:39< TheBuzzSaw> I'm actually curious as to the status of adding OpenGL support to Wesnoth.
20100822 23:53:50< TheBuzzSaw> I'm an OpenGL dev myself
20100822 23:53:58< Ivanovic> nothing was done yet
20100822 23:53:59< TheBuzzSaw> and I only recently learned that Wesnoth uses pure SDL
20100822 23:54:04< Ivanovic> that is: volunteers wanted!
20100822 23:54:08< Ivanovic> ;)
20100822 23:54:09< TheBuzzSaw> I read about several attempts in the past
20100822 23:54:17< TheBuzzSaw> that seemed to die off
20100822 23:54:36< TheBuzzSaw> I'm considering volunteering.
20100822 23:54:38< Ivanovic> latest stuff in those regards was the post fosdem talk from febuary
20100822 23:55:10< Ivanovic> have a look at the dev ml archives for this information: https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2010-02/threads.html
20100822 23:57:00< TheBuzzSaw> untrusted certificate?
20100822 23:57:02< TheBuzzSaw> lol
20100822 23:57:19< Gambit> TheBuzzSaw: Never been to GNA?
20100822 23:57:22< TheBuzzSaw> no
20100822 23:57:53< TheBuzzSaw> never heard of it, actually
20100822 23:57:53< Ivanovic> TheBuzzSaw: oh, it is trusted, but the browser providers have not added the certification site
20100822 23:58:15< shadowmaster> we need mre than a single volunteer IMO
20100822 23:58:22< shadowmaster> i.e. cooperation with that volunteer and the rest of the team
20100822 23:58:41< TheBuzzSaw> I've actually recently become a semi-expert on OpenGL shaders
20100822 23:59:03< shadowmaster> I thought the problem with the gna cert was that they never remember to revalidate it so it's expired most of tme, btw
20100822 23:59:17< TheBuzzSaw> Figures. I accepted it simply because I trust the link you gave me
20100822 23:59:31< Ivanovic> AI0867, boucman, crab_, fendrin, ilor_, mordante, everyone else who cares (regarding the small, anual wesconf happening there): the date for the 2011 fosdem is set: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODUzNg
20100822 23:59:59< TheBuzzSaw> Anyway, what prompted my visitation was the 1.9 version of Wesnoth
--- Log closed Mon Aug 23 00:00:06 2010