--- Log opened Fri Aug 13 00:00:32 2010
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20100813 00:17:27< Valkier> How is that a risk in any way?
20100813 00:20:10< VurtualRuler98> I know right?
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20100813 01:16:01< SpoOkyMagician> VurtualRuler98: er, im no expert with labtops but, how exactly/why do they say/think it's a risk?
20100813 01:16:14< SpoOkyMagician> (curious)
20100813 01:18:09-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20100813 01:18:36 * SpoOkyMagician googles the subject out of curiosity
20100813 01:19:24< SpoOkyMagician> laptop *
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20100813 01:21:10 * SpoOkyMagician finds nothing relevant
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20100813 01:25:04< SpoOkyMagician> well, unless you are *really careless*, i can't seem to come up with a reason either. (returns to back to what he was doing)
20100813 01:28:24< VurtualRuler98> Warranty, apparently.
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20100813 01:30:20< SpoOkyMagician_> heh
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20100813 01:45:01< e_s-iOS> Hi.
20100813 01:45:50-!- bitofanoob [7def0cca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.125.239.12.202] has joined #wesnoth
20100813 01:46:18< bitofanoob> If your units have special abilities, how do you use them? Like if they have teleport.
20100813 01:46:32< e_s-iOS> Teleport?
20100813 01:47:02< e_s-iOS> Your silver mage should be able to simply move onto your villages
20100813 01:47:14< e_s-iOS> Make sure you have enough movement points
20100813 01:53:03< joo> Yeah.. it just makes friendly villages valid destinations
20100813 01:53:20< joo> So in that way abilities are generally passive
20100813 01:54:09< e_s-iOS> Yeah, you don't 'use' them, they're automatically implemented into the nature of the unit.
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20100813 01:57:14< e_s-iOS> Valkier: And so it seems you drove someone nuts: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30843&p=449195#p449195 
20100813 01:57:17< e_s-iOS> :)
20100813 01:57:25< Valkier> I did!
20100813 01:57:58< e_s-iOS> Lol.
20100813 02:00:15< bitofanoob> ohh friendly villages
20100813 02:00:16< bitofanoob> got it
20100813 02:01:25< Valkier> I've never ever gotten a silver mage in a MP game.
20100813 02:05:23< e_s-iOS> Me neither
20100813 02:05:31< e_s-iOS> Got plenty in campaigns though 
20100813 02:06:06< e_s-iOS> bitofanoob: To be precise, it's only your own villages, but I think you get it :)
20100813 02:15:03< e_s-iOS> Hm. Got to go.
20100813 02:15:08< e_s-iOS> See ya in a bit.
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20100813 02:52:49< Valkier> So who is ready for some hot orc on canvas action?!
20100813 02:53:01< Valkier> Do ya? Do ya WANT it!?
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20100813 03:19:49< VurtualRuler98> not really no
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20100813 08:21:54< Corbinus> Hey, could somebody answer a multiplayer question for me?
20100813 08:22:18< VurtualRuler98> I probably couldn't, but shoot.
20100813 08:22:47< Corbinus> The question is:  after a player has left a game, and their units have been switched to computer control, is it possible to return control of those units to the player upon their return?
20100813 08:23:07< shadowmaster> yes
20100813 08:23:12< VurtualRuler98> I remember a command
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20100813 08:23:20< VurtualRuler98> not sure if it was "cheat"-y or not, but it can certainly be done.
20100813 08:23:28< Corbinus> Cheaty is fine.
20100813 08:23:34< shadowmaster> Corbinus: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CommandMode :control
20100813 08:23:41< shadowmaster> not cheaty at all
20100813 08:23:46< Corbinus> thank you!
20100813 08:24:15< shadowmaster> no problem
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20100813 09:50:25< Ivanovic> moin
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20100813 10:47:22< Surunveri> hi
20100813 10:48:10< Unnheulu> Hi
20100813 10:50:12< Surunveri> anyone want to try and play a MP campaign?
20100813 10:50:18< Surunveri> it would take quite a while though
20100813 10:50:53< joo> What kind of skill level?
20100813 10:51:17< VurtualRuler98> Ever since I genuinely dashed my hopes about campaign-difficulty I stopped playing campaign-things :(
20100813 10:51:46< VurtualRuler98> A simple springrts AI can easily turn any generic campaign scenario with a huge advantage for you into a nightmare, so I just know how fake and programmed the enemy is when I'm winning.
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20100813 10:52:25< Surunveri> ?
20100813 10:52:52< VurtualRuler98> Your typical scenario in a strategy game, for a campaign, is always rigged, man.
20100813 10:52:57< Surunveri> I dont know i just always select the hardest difficulty and it's usually challenging in the very least... given that it's not based to AI strength :D
20100813 10:53:16< VurtualRuler98> Then I listen to the TA soundtrack to drown out my sorrows.
20100813 10:54:39< Surunveri> joo i was thinking of playing the "haunted woods" campaign
20100813 10:54:46< Surunveri> although it requires 3 players =/
20100813 10:54:51< Surunveri> or.. is meant for 
20100813 10:54:58< VurtualRuler98> gaming feels so... dead nowadays. :(
20100813 10:55:07< joo> What is its difficulty defined as? Expert?
20100813 10:55:19< Surunveri> idk 
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20100813 10:56:42< joo> It doesn't have one. I see.
20100813 10:56:59< Surunveri> I was just wondering.. If i'd start a survival game and then take control of the AI and give my side to some other player, I would be able to move the spawning units? :D
20100813 10:56:59< VurtualRuler98> It'll probably not be low-named enough
20100813 10:57:06< joo> Well, I haven't been playing for very long. I wouldn't want to ruin a game by being a noob.
20100813 10:57:19< VurtualRuler98> Because if wesnoth were actually anywhere a wide-range of skill as most games I've played, "hard" gets a bit boring at times.
20100813 10:57:42< Surunveri> C_c
20100813 10:57:48< VurtualRuler98> but I should stop ranting
20100813 10:58:08< joo> Maybe you need to take your complaints to the AI programmers?
20100813 10:58:17< VurtualRuler98> Of every game I've ever played, ever?
20100813 10:58:34< joo> Well, you have to start somewhere
20100813 10:58:58< joo> Or resign yourself to dissatisfaction
20100813 10:59:01< VurtualRuler98> "Hey, id, quake 2's hard was too easy, Nightmare! was too easy, too, except the occasional time you got stuck, and that was just repitition."
20100813 10:59:06< Surunveri> well it's true. Wesnoth AI aint much. But where can you find a game with similiar tactics and a good AI? :D
20100813 10:59:15< VurtualRuler98> Total Annihilation? ;_;
20100813 10:59:20< VurtualRuler98> no that's way too off tactics-wise
20100813 10:59:44< Surunveri> uhuh those are not even of the same genre
20100813 10:59:45< Surunveri> :D
20100813 11:00:03< VurtualRuler98> yeah my brain has have had a hard time thinking straight ever since I stayed up late enough to not get a proper meal.
20100813 11:01:02< Surunveri> i mean 
20100813 11:01:53< Surunveri> if you take chess for an example it as a platform allows thinking very far and is very tactical.. but it all occurs on 8x8 board and computer can match the best human players just barely. Or they're around the same strength
20100813 11:02:06< Surunveri> while almost any AI for chess can beat teh generic human opponent
20100813 11:02:06< VurtualRuler98> Chess is hard.
20100813 11:02:13< Surunveri> wesnoth does no provide the same tactical depth as chess 
20100813 11:02:17< VurtualRuler98> vs normal people I am amazing at chess.
20100813 11:02:24< Surunveri> you move all the pieces at the same time, there's chance involved
20100813 11:02:31< Surunveri> so it's not possible to calculate so far
20100813 11:02:41< Surunveri> regardless the size of the 'grid' is much larger than in chess
20100813 11:02:45< Surunveri> although it cant be directly compared 
20100813 11:02:51< VurtualRuler98> vs the easiest AIs except for one chess AI way back then in chessmaster 3000(remember that? family chess pack?), I lose instantly.
20100813 11:03:26< Surunveri> so im just saying. How much can you expect from an AI controlling units in a map of size 30x30 for an example
20100813 11:03:33< Surunveri> :D
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20100813 11:04:59< VurtualRuler98> I can expect not being easily beaten by exploiting how they attack which units, which you can pick up after a moment.
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20100813 11:05:47< Surunveri> mm i dont know what you're saying
20100813 11:05:48< Surunveri> ?
20100813 11:07:12< Surunveri> as another example of the AI strength you can think of GO which is played on a 20x20 grid. Computers are not  even near human players there yet.. But again. That platform too provides more tactical depth than wesnoth.... so they cant be compared just based onto number of hexes/squares.... but anyway. :D
20100813 11:07:38< VurtualRuler98> tactical depth of a basic logic game maybe
20100813 11:08:05< joo> ..19×19
20100813 11:08:08< Surunveri> im sorry go is 19x19
20100813 11:08:11< Surunveri> yeah =)
20100813 11:08:27< Surunveri> although it can be played on a grid of any size that's the default
20100813 11:08:28< VurtualRuler98> Well if you make a small enough map, especially if it makes use of a more tile-by-tile-important style, the wesnoth AI pretty much immediately breaks.
20100813 11:08:44< VurtualRuler98> Wether that was an "okay" thing or not, I do not know.
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20100813 11:09:24< Surunveri> but anyway 
20100813 11:09:29< Surunveri> I still dont quite see what you're 
20100813 11:09:31< Surunveri> complaining about
20100813 11:09:36< Surunveri> the AI being weak?
20100813 11:09:37< Surunveri> :D
20100813 11:09:46< joo> 1. Become an AI programmer.
20100813 11:09:48< VurtualRuler98> no it was an elaboration on something earlier
20100813 11:09:51< joo> 2. Wololo!
20100813 11:09:52< joo> 3. ???
20100813 11:09:56< joo> 4. PROFIT
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20100813 11:10:14< VurtualRuler98> now I should go back to building this massive lasery-EMP thing
20100813 11:11:15< Surunveri> but anyway
20100813 11:11:23< Surunveri> is there anyoen who wants to try a MP campaign?
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20100813 11:35:03< Naeddyr> hello
20100813 11:35:13< Naeddyr> is this a good place to discuss Ideas?
20100813 11:38:55< thespaceinvader> Naeddyr: depends on the idea
20100813 11:38:57< thespaceinvader> what's yours?
20100813 11:39:36< Naeddyr> colour-coded floaty damage indicator numbers that show when your damage output is affected by minuses or bonuses (ToD, resistance, leadership, items)
20100813 11:39:50< Naeddyr> blue-worse, white-neutral, red-better.
20100813 11:40:11< Naeddyr> i suggested it some years ago, but it fizzles
20100813 11:40:13< Naeddyr> *d
20100813 11:40:34< Unnheulu|Laptop> thespaceinvader: top thread in the ideas forum ;)
20100813 11:40:41< Naeddyr> and now that i'm replaying the game again i thought to reintroduce it again
20100813 11:40:53< Naeddyr> seriously
20100813 11:41:02< Naeddyr> i did start attacking skeletons with my archers
20100813 11:41:47< Unnheulu|Laptop> Interesting
20100813 11:42:02< thespaceinvader> Oh, that one
20100813 11:42:14< Naeddyr> that doesn't very promising
20100813 11:42:17< thespaceinvader> yeah, I could see that being useful, perhaps
20100813 11:42:24< Unnheulu|Laptop> Not lest for the fact that archers have a low hit against skeletons, that just feels like a bad idea in so many ways :P
20100813 11:42:43< Unnheulu|Laptop> For a start, moving a mostly ranged unit against a powerful melee
20100813 11:42:54< Naeddyr> spaceinvader: useful, but I was thinking of it in a pavlovian sense
20100813 11:43:27< Naeddyr> at the moment, the only reward for playing well is that you might survive. there isn't much feedback on when you are doing right, though: it's all a bit abstract
20100813 11:43:33< Unnheulu|Laptop> elias: people are commenting on you in an art workshop threa
20100813 11:43:44< Unnheulu|Laptop> thread
20100813 11:43:58< Naeddyr> this is a relatively small UI change
20100813 11:44:03< Naeddyr> which already fits the relevant paradigm
20100813 11:44:09< Naeddyr> Green: heals, after all
20100813 11:46:11< elias> Unnheulu|Laptop: something good or bad? (in the latter case i don't want to know about it :P)
20100813 11:46:38< Unnheulu|Laptop> elias: http://wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=31052&p=449228
20100813 11:47:14< Unnheulu|Laptop> Someone thinks the allefant is a strange dinosaur :)
20100813 11:47:22< elias> heh
20100813 11:47:41< Unnheulu|Laptop> Mountain_kings post made me smirks
20100813 11:47:48< Naeddyr> it's head is huge
20100813 11:48:04< Naeddyr> its*
20100813 11:48:46< Unnheulu|Laptop> Naeddyr: http://www.pyweek.org/e/Allefant/ play that
20100813 11:48:49< Unnheulu|Laptop> Best game eva
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20100813 11:49:22< Naeddyr> we'll see
20100813 11:49:26< Unnheulu|Laptop> Actually, you planning on entering this time?
20100813 11:53:41< Naeddyr> uh
20100813 11:53:42< Naeddyr> who?
20100813 11:53:44< Naeddyr> me?
20100813 11:55:32< Unnheulu|Laptop> Nah, elias ;)
20100813 11:55:46< elias> need to work :(
20100813 11:56:10< Unnheulu|Laptop> :(
20100813 11:56:20 * Unnheulu|Laptop thinks he'll be in austria during pyweek
20100813 11:56:34< elias> australia?
20100813 11:56:58< Unnheulu|Laptop> Austria
20100813 11:57:02< Unnheulu|Laptop> Near Germany ;)
20100813 11:57:08< elias> last time you didn't quite know the difference :P
20100813 11:57:13< Unnheulu|Laptop> Orly?
20100813 11:57:33< Unnheulu|Laptop> Australia is down south, Austria is up north...When I didn't know that I dunno
20100813 11:58:20< elias> :)
20100813 11:58:24< Naeddyr> fun fact: austra- in Australia means "south"
20100813 11:58:35< Naeddyr> while the Austr- in Austria means East.
20100813 11:58:45< Naeddyr> Easterreich.
20100813 11:59:35< Naeddyr> ...
20100813 11:59:38< elias> yes, we have Easter all year here
20100813 11:59:40< Naeddyr> actually, let me check that
20100813 11:59:50< Naeddyr> could be that Austria has a different Latin name or something
20100813 12:00:04< elias> Unnheulu|Laptop: where would you be staying?
20100813 12:00:07< Naeddyr> yesh, Austria < East
20100813 12:00:22< Unnheulu|Laptop> Some mountain place, can't remember off the top of my head
20100813 12:01:28< Unnheulu|Laptop> elias: was it?
20100813 12:01:33< Unnheulu|Laptop> (Drawn by neorice)
20100813 12:01:39 * Unnheulu|Laptop thought you drew it :)
20100813 12:01:41< elias> yes
20100813 12:01:48< elias> no, i can't pixel
20100813 12:01:58< Unnheulu|Laptop> Did you do the animated one though
20100813 12:02:02< elias> yes
20100813 12:02:09< elias> by playing spheres in blender
20100813 12:02:13< elias> *placing
20100813 12:02:37< Unnheulu|Laptop> :)
20100813 12:03:07< elias> i wonder where i could find the original
20100813 12:03:22< elias> it was gone from my profile (not posting for 3 years must have done that somehow)
20100813 12:03:35< elias> and now it has a white background
20100813 12:03:37< elias> :P
20100813 12:04:51< Unnheulu|Laptop> Hah, that was your first post in 2 years :D
20100813 12:16:47< Naeddyr> how old threads are you allowed to resurrect
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20100813 12:26:49 * Unnheulu|Laptop wonders where/how he could teamcolour a slave
20100813 12:27:00< Unnheulu|Laptop> Meh, I'll try a belt or something
20100813 12:42:02< Unnheulu|Laptop> Yay, finished the slave
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20100813 12:42:49< Unnheulu|Laptop> Complete with unstolen boots...umm...because he has no boots^^
20100813 12:43:01< Unnheulu|Laptop> And my signature is wrong...meh
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20100813 12:59:10< joo> Where did you teamcolour it?
20100813 12:59:50< Unnheulu|Laptop> Belt
20100813 12:59:55< Unnheulu|Laptop> Maybe I need some more tc, I dunno
20100813 13:00:56< joo> headband?
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20100813 13:01:16< Unnheulu|Laptop> Perhaps
20100813 13:01:27< joo> or... armband?
20100813 13:01:46< Naeddyr> slave tattoo
20100813 13:01:52< joo> ooh
20100813 13:01:54< joo> heh
20100813 13:05:16< Unnheulu|Laptop> Headband won't work...
20100813 13:05:21< Unnheulu|Laptop> I'll try an armband
20100813 13:07:02< Unnheulu|Laptop> I can't doa  tatoo, 'cause the higher levels aren't slaves and don't have a tatoo ;)
20100813 13:07:23< Naeddyr> could be a fancier tattoo
20100813 13:07:26< Naeddyr> :D
20100813 13:07:30< Unnheulu|Laptop> :P
20100813 13:07:45< Naeddyr> what about a price-tag
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20100813 13:08:13< Naeddyr> one or two variations that come in the original packaging
20100813 13:08:32< Naeddyr> Collector's Edition Slave.
20100813 13:08:38< Unnheulu|Laptop> :D
20100813 13:10:35< Unnheulu|Laptop> Meh, the belt should be enough
20100813 13:11:36< joo> OOI, what attack does the slave have?
20100813 13:12:19< Unnheulu|Laptop> Just a punch
20100813 13:14:12< joo> and the advanced forms?
20100813 13:14:57< Unnheulu|Laptop> Whip, Knife, Sword respectively
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20100813 13:37:56< Unnheulu> thespaceinvader, regarding the royal scout, before it was just some generic human faction
20100813 13:38:51< Unnheulu> I'm not sure why I did that with the general, and part of my aim with this era was to improve my art, which is why I used my own boar thingy (besides, your tusker thingy isn't quite what I had in mind)
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20100813 13:46:13< Unnheulu> thespaceinvader, Happy now? :)
20100813 13:46:36< thespaceinvader> fine
20100813 13:47:31< Unnheulu> Blargh gfx tablets not working properly -.-
20100813 13:48:07< VurtualRuler98> slaves with whips
20100813 13:48:09< VurtualRuler98> this is not that kind of game
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20100813 14:08:10< Naeddyr> sidenote
20100813 14:08:34< Naeddyr> are there any skills that affect that number of attacks an enemy has?
20100813 14:08:38< Naeddyr> except slow
20100813 14:08:50< Unnheulu> Slow doesn't
20100813 14:08:56< Naeddyr> oh yeah
20100813 14:09:04< Naeddyr> i'm just reading through my old posts
20100813 14:09:42< Naeddyr> and i had once a suggestion for an ranged unit ability stolen from Fantasy General, to support (defend) allied units that are attacked by enemies.
20100813 14:11:23< Naeddyr> and i came up with an interesting variation: if you have a ranged unit with the Cover Fire ability attached to an allied unit that is attacked by an enemy, the ranged unit with cover the defending unit, and cause the attacked to lose some (percentage? just one (after the first one?)) of its strikes
20100813 14:11:39< Naeddyr> well, melee strikes
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20100813 14:12:14< Soul_keeper> Hello
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20100813 14:12:44< Soul_keeper> does wesnoth distribute patches so I don't have to download the entire source ?
20100813 14:13:07 * Unnheulu shakes his head
20100813 14:13:15< Unnheulu> Why not try using svn?
20100813 14:13:32< Unnheulu> When they release a new version just svn up the 1.8 branch
20100813 14:13:42< Soul_keeper> ok
20100813 14:14:37< Soliton> there is also an xdelta for the source.
20100813 14:16:37< Soul_keeper> never heard of xdelta, is that windows only ?
20100813 14:17:34< Soliton> for the army of wesnoth compiling windows users, right.
20100813 14:19:18< Unnheulu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xdelta <-- hehe
20100813 14:19:27-!- DreadKnight [~DreadKnig@79.117.25.50] has joined #wesnoth
20100813 14:19:30< Unnheulu> It has a link to xdelta on it, which redirects to the same same page
20100813 14:20:04< Soul_keeper> yeah was reading their blog, it says "windows" a lot :/
20100813 14:20:30< Soul_keeper> I get this output a lot when I sign into the lobby   "error config: Illegal character in map: (Dc) 'Dc'"   is this a known bug ?
20100813 14:20:57< Soliton> it's not a bug.
20100813 14:21:09< Soul_keeper> just a warning then ?
20100813 14:21:37< Unnheulu> SoftlySplinter: hai!
20100813 14:21:41< Soliton> someone is using a custom map which might be broken.
20100813 14:21:58< Unnheulu> SoftlySplinter: your anims pwn :P
20100813 14:22:07< Soliton> or at least you don't have the terrain definitions for it.
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20100813 14:24:08< Gambit> Soul_keeper: There's an addon out there that includes the new terrain from 1.9
20100813 14:24:21< Gambit> Soul_keeper: And it adds them to the map editor under the default categories.
20100813 14:24:34< Soul_keeper> ahh
20100813 14:24:36< Gambit> So people with this addon don't realize that those terrains aren't actually part of 1.8.x
20100813 14:26:03< Soul_keeper> I was thinking about just supressing the Illegal character output so it doesn't flood my console
20100813 14:26:22< Naeddyr> what addon is that?
20100813 14:27:28< Gambit> Well it uses to be Ageless Era
20100813 14:27:33< Gambit> supposedly he fixed it.
20100813 14:27:42< Gambit> But there might be people out there with out-of-date versions.
20100813 14:27:48< Gambit> Or another add-on could be doing it.
20100813 14:28:11< Gambit> You can't really blame people for being out of date on Ageless Era; It's 30mb :\
20100813 14:28:33< Naeddyr> ah gotta go
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20100813 15:26:11< Unnheulu|Laptop> Playing AOI on hardest, (only done 1 sc.), but finding it kinda easy
20100813 15:26:21< Unnheulu|Laptop> I mean, I know its a beginner campaign, but surely hardest should be tougher
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20100813 15:48:41< Unnheulu|Laptop> Won sc. 2 in under half the turn limit
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20100813 16:04:49< Unnheulu> Scenario 3 in 4 turns...
20100813 16:05:03< Unnheulu> The difficulty really needs to be bumped up imo
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20100813 16:21:59< Unnheulu> Sc 4 in 11
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20100813 17:00:02< Unnheulu> Sc 5 in 6
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20100813 17:18:05< Surunveri> hi
20100813 17:18:24< Unnheulu> Hiah
20100813 17:19:25< Unnheulu> noy, I wanna try the khalifa :P
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20100813 17:20:32< Surunveri> anyone wanna play a mp-campaign? :D
20100813 17:20:46< ravent> HI
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20100813 17:55:35< Unnheulu|Laptop> noy: drakes are underpowered to loyalists >.>
20100813 17:55:41< noy> ...
20100813 17:55:49< Unnheulu|Laptop> Sorry :/
20100813 17:56:27< noy> against spearmen spam just buy augurs and clashers
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20100813 17:56:35< noy> rest of it should fall tgether
20100813 17:57:49< Unnheulu|Laptop> Is the khalifa still possible for mainline?
20100813 17:57:59< noy> yes
20100813 17:58:03< Unnheulu|Laptop> Cool :)
20100813 17:58:14 * Unnheulu|Laptop can't wait, having more factions will be fun
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20100813 18:14:29< thespaceinvader> hey noy, speaking of the Khalifate, how are the cfgs coming?
20100813 18:14:37< noy> ask happygrue
20100813 18:15:12< thespaceinvader> will do
20100813 18:15:14< noy> there is some stuff that needs to be sorted out between him and I
20100813 18:15:17< noy> so its stalled
20100813 18:15:21< noy> we need to work on them
20100813 18:15:47< thespaceinvader> ok no worries
20100813 18:16:05< thespaceinvader> i'm progressing gently on the animations, but I'm focussing more on the Drake portraits right at the moment
20100813 18:17:11 * Unnheulu would ask to help if the animations if he could actually shade. and if his flats were better
20100813 18:17:21< Unnheulu> Meh, it'll be ages before I'm that good :D
20100813 18:17:41< thespaceinvader> keep perservering, you'll get there in time
20100813 18:18:06< Unnheulu> Emphasize time
20100813 18:28:00 * Unnheulu wonders whether he should just sheath the dagger to cop-out of drawing it...
20100813 18:28:35< Unnheulu> Yeah, I'll do that
20100813 18:32:21< hylje> khalifate? i can enjoy some arabian nights stuff!
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20100813 18:53:56< thespaceinvader> Unnheulu: you'll never improve if you cop out of drawing the difficult things
20100813 18:54:05< thespaceinvader> take them head on, seek crit, get better
20100813 18:54:06< Unnheulu> Perhaps
20100813 18:54:16< thespaceinvader> it's the only way to learn
20100813 18:54:18< Unnheulu> But I couldn't find any ways of fitting a dagger in his hand :P
20100813 18:54:26< thespaceinvader> study how mainline sprites do it
20100813 18:54:35< Unnheulu> Like the thief?
20100813 18:57:09< thespaceinvader> yep
20100813 18:57:11< thespaceinvader> he'd do
20100813 18:57:26< thespaceinvader> tehre's plenty of units who hold knives or swords
20100813 18:57:36< Unnheulu> Swords would be fine, cause its bigger
20100813 18:57:40< thespaceinvader> the thing you'll probably find is that the handle doesn't actually fit into the hand
20100813 18:57:44< Unnheulu> It's just the small size of the dagger
20100813 18:57:55< thespaceinvader> you just draw the hand, and put the handle sticking out the bottom
20100813 18:58:00< thespaceinvader> make it bigger then :P
20100813 18:58:32< Unnheulu> I mean its too small if I put it in the hand :P
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20100813 20:04:39 * Unnheulu has almost finished shading the cutthroat now
20100813 20:05:57 * Unnheulu prods Soliton
20100813 20:06:08< Unnheulu> Bot in OT
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20100813 22:14:11< oly> hi, is it possible to run a wesnoth server which allows disconnecting and rejoining leaving the game going on the sever
20100813 22:14:27< oly> ie so i can connect take my turn, then disconnect until the next player has taken there turn
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20100813 22:14:54< Unnheulu> Why do that?
20100813 22:15:24< shadowmaster> it sounds like a variant of PBEM.
20100813 22:15:39< shadowmaster> (play by email)
20100813 22:15:46< Unnheulu> But couldn't you just unfullscreen wesnoth for a bit...
20100813 22:15:48< oly> yeah, thats the idea so i can play with friends but we can disconnect and rejoin when needed
20100813 22:15:58< Unnheulu> Ah
20100813 22:16:01< oly> so the game could go on for days / weeks
20100813 22:16:35 * Unnheulu understands
20100813 22:16:35< oly> it seems wesnoth would support this type of play quite nicely, if it does not already
20100813 22:16:36< shadowmaster> that isn't supported. Games die once everyone involved leaves the game or disconnects  from the server
20100813 22:16:44< Gambit> oly: I think passing the save around is your only option.
20100813 22:17:03< shadowmaster> maybe wesnothd could be extended to support that, but it'd require some coding work ;)
20100813 22:17:04< Gambit> And of course that takes all value from fog and shroud
20100813 22:17:05 * Unnheulu thinks that passing the save round is a bad idea to
20100813 22:17:14< shadowmaster> yeah
20100813 22:17:35< shadowmaster> although responsible players with a sense of competivity won't cheat like that.
20100813 22:17:54< Gambit> shadowmaster: How can you help it?
20100813 22:18:00< Gambit> You end your turn and there is your opponent's stuff
20100813 22:18:02< Gambit> or you don't end
20100813 22:18:10< Gambit> and then the next player loads the game and there is your stuff
20100813 22:18:35< shadowmaster> hm. I forgot that the game's host would change every time.
20100813 22:19:16< Unnheulu> Gambit: you could do what civ iv does, and have a black screen saying Player x's turn
20100813 22:19:28< Unnheulu> But that to would need coding work, but I suspect not so much
20100813 22:19:28< Gambit> Unnheulu: I know the game could do that.
20100813 22:19:30< Gambit> But it doesn't.
20100813 22:19:37< oly> yeah, i was thinking of with friends for fun rather than overly competitive 
20100813 22:19:38< shadowmaster> in a related note, there are plans to allow persistent world games to be supported.
20100813 22:19:49< shadowmaster> maybe that would help with such games
20100813 22:19:53< Gambit> The PBEM'ers have asked for that feature Unnheulu.
20100813 22:20:00< Unnheulu> Uh? Why would you want that?
20100813 22:20:10< Gambit> Unnheulu: DO NOT QUESTION THE CRAB_!
20100813 22:20:12-!- ancestral [~ancestral@mobile-166-137-141-123.mycingular.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100813 22:20:13< Unnheulu> Gambit: and no-one has coded it? :/
20100813 22:20:16< Gambit> Unnheulu: !!!
20100813 22:20:27< ancestral> Me!!!
20100813 22:20:37< Gambit> Unnheulu: Why would you *not* want persistent game worlds?
20100813 22:20:49< Gambit> Wesnoth morpigas.
20100813 22:20:51< Unnheulu> I don't see the point :P
20100813 22:20:53< shadowmaster> complex RPGs come to pind
20100813 22:20:56< shadowmaster> mind
20100813 22:21:04< ancestral> It's one step closer to simultaneous turns
20100813 22:21:26< Unnheulu> Mm
20100813 22:21:29< Gambit> Yeah because part of the plan is having games be able to affect each other through a game master.
20100813 22:21:32< Unnheulu> Mp rpg's?
20100813 22:21:33< ancestral> And campaign/scenario data storage
20100813 22:21:46< shadowmaster> Battle for Wesnoth: MMORPG Edition
20100813 22:21:51< Unnheulu> So Upthorn stuff?
20100813 22:21:52< Gambit> Minus the first M
20100813 22:22:02-!- Laogeodritt is now known as Laogeodritt|out
20100813 22:22:04< Unnheulu> shadowmaster: ooh, I'd pay for that
20100813 22:22:04< Gambit> Though someone had mentioned lifting the side limit to 24.
20100813 22:22:14< shadowmaster> Battle for Wesnoth: MORPG Edition
20100813 22:22:18< shadowmaster> Because Wesnoth wasn't addictive enough already.
20100813 22:22:20< ancestral> Right
20100813 22:22:30< ancestral> Not very massive
20100813 22:22:34< Unnheulu> :D
20100813 22:22:42< shadowmaster> there's no side limit AFAIK, other than the editor mess
20100813 22:22:42< ancestral> 9 players
20100813 22:22:43< Unnheulu> No, not very multiplayer
20100813 22:22:47< Gambit> shadowmaster: Yes there is.
20100813 22:22:49-!- SpoOkyMagician_ [~chatzilla@74-138-202-211.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #wesnoth
20100813 22:22:54< Unnheulu> SpoOkyMagician_!
20100813 22:22:54< Gambit> The server will not allow games with more than 9 sides.
20100813 22:22:56< Unnheulu> Heya
20100813 22:22:57< shadowmaster> Gambit: what i it?
20100813 22:22:58< Gambit> Even if those sides are AI.
20100813 22:23:02< shadowmaster> Gambit: oh
20100813 22:23:04< SpoOkyMagician_> hello
20100813 22:23:11< shadowmaster> okay, that's odd ;)
20100813 22:23:12< SpoOkyMagician_> and Gambit ty
20100813 22:23:40< ancestral> Gambit: Is there a FR for Experimental for more players? iirc there's a lot of hard coded stuff so it would be like a summer of work
20100813 22:23:44< Gambit> I tried to start a prototype of Battlefront once and got "This server does not support games with more than nine sides."
20100813 22:24:06< Gambit> ancestral: I think that it's actually on the todo list for mainline.
20100813 22:24:09< Unnheulu> ancestral: wouldn't it just be a lot of grepping...
20100813 22:24:23< ancestral> Even 16 would be fab
20100813 22:24:26< Gambit> I seem to recall someone with a red name on the forums throwing the number 24 around.
20100813 22:24:39< Unnheulu> Why not unlimited...
20100813 22:24:41-!- SpoOkyMagician_ is now known as SpoOkyMagician
20100813 22:24:46< Gambit> Unnheulu: DDOS?
20100813 22:24:50< Unnheulu> s/unlimited/255/
20100813 22:24:55< ancestral> Unnheulu: My guess is network code may need to be altered
20100813 22:24:56< Unnheulu> Gambit: bah, who'll target wesnoth?
20100813 22:25:06< ancestral> To handle the extra communication
20100813 22:25:19< Gambit> Unnheulu: make a macro that makes a side
20100813 22:25:25< Gambit> Unnheulu: make a macro that calls that macro 10 times
20100813 22:25:31< Gambit> Unnheulu: make a macro that calls that macro 10 times
20100813 22:25:46< Gambit> Unnheulu: Keep doing that for each step up through ones, tens, hundreds, thousands, et cetera.
20100813 22:25:48< Gambit> Make them all AI
20100813 22:25:55< Unnheulu> And then you get a side...
20100813 22:26:01< Unnheulu> It's all coming from the same ip
20100813 22:26:11< Unnheulu> So I fail to see the ddos part
20100813 22:26:19< ancestral> There may also be arrays or data structures that are dependent on there being 9 or fewer (or maybe 10 or fewer, if manipulating a variable treating it as base 10
20100813 22:26:46< Gambit> Hmm AI is done locally isn't it?
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20100813 22:26:54< Gambit> So you'd need a more powerful computer than wesnoth's server
20100813 22:27:02< ancestral> Also, at some point, a lot of players won't be a very fun game
20100813 22:27:10< Gambit> Unnheulu: Yeah nevermind.
20100813 22:27:11< ancestral> And quite slow
20100813 22:27:23< Gambit> Unnheulu: But just because we can't see the abuse possibilities now doesn't mean they don't exist.
20100813 22:27:26< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: you have no idea how many mean-spirited people or script kiddies with nothing better to do exist out there.
20100813 22:27:26< ancestral> Unless you have simultaneous turns ;-)
20100813 22:27:27< Unnheulu> ancestral: in which case its the hosts fault
20100813 22:27:33< Gambit> Unnheulu: People are bastards.
20100813 22:27:35< shadowmaster> we had some problems in the past.
20100813 22:28:05< ancestral> Which 95% of the time would be the Wesnoth MP servers
20100813 22:28:19< shadowmaster> it was around the same time i joined the dev team
20100813 22:28:22< ancestral> I'm sure shadowmaster would be thrilled…
20100813 22:28:49< ancestral> Wesnoth 500
20100813 22:29:11< ancestral> etc.
20100813 22:29:35< ancestral> There was a game called 10 ^ 6
20100813 22:29:59< ancestral> And it supported (supposedly) a million people in one game
20100813 22:30:15< Unnheulu> Were those claims ever tested?
20100813 22:30:40< ancestral> Not sure, but I do know they closed down their servers
20100813 22:30:54< ancestral> Some sort of RTS warfare game
20100813 22:33:36< Unnheulu> shadowmaster: what happened?
20100813 22:34:08< Gambit> "I'm not at liberty to disclose that information at this time."
20100813 22:34:16< Gambit> "There will be a press release in the coming weeks."
20100813 22:34:46< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: I'm not allowed to disclose that information.
20100813 22:34:56< shadowmaster> but I can tell you it's been fixed ever since then.
20100813 22:35:08< Unnheulu> Gambit: you were right :/
20100813 22:35:21< Unnheulu> shadowmaster: c'mon, do you really trust me that little?
20100813 22:35:34< Unnheulu> I guess this is the internet, but still...
20100813 22:35:42< shadowmaster> I can't trust anyone outside of a small subset of the development team for handling security issues.
20100813 22:35:59< shadowmaster> :)
20100813 22:36:00< Unnheulu> But you joined the development team in like 1.3?
20100813 22:36:05< shadowmaster> yes
20100813 22:36:24 * Unnheulu finds it hard to believe a 1.3 security hole would still exist :D
20100813 22:36:41< shadowmaster> I said it's been fixed since then.
20100813 22:36:49< ancestral> That's about when I started hanging out in the forums
20100813 22:37:00-!- SpoOkyMagician is now known as SpoOkyMagician_
20100813 22:37:05< Unnheulu> So, forgive me for asking, why can't you disclose it?
20100813 22:37:09< ancestral> Like 3 years ago maybe?
20100813 22:37:19< shadowmaster> 2007, yes.
20100813 22:37:24< Gambit> Unnheulu: I was torn between "not at liberty to disclose" and top gun.
20100813 22:37:51< ancestral> Unnheulu: shadowmaster could tell you but then he'd have to kill you
20100813 22:37:52< Gambit> But I figured shadowmaster hasn't seen Top Gun.
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20100813 22:38:15< shadowmaster> Gambit: true
20100813 22:38:38< shadowmaster> My catchphrase: "I'm not allowed to disclose that information."
20100813 22:38:53< Unnheulu> :)
20100813 22:38:57< shadowmaster> the thing is that most of the time the person who doesn't allow me to do that is myself.
20100813 22:39:00< ancestral> You don't like the "no comment" line?
20100813 22:39:08< hylje> "I'm the goddamn master of shadows"
20100813 22:39:26< shadowmaster> what "no comment" line?
20100813 22:39:28< ancestral> hylje: This is true
20100813 22:39:31< Gambit> shadowmaster: No comment.
20100813 22:39:39< ancestral> Saying "no comment"
20100813 22:39:51< shadowmaster> I use it myself.
20100813 22:39:52< Gambit> You can use the line to respond to all questions regarding the line.
20100813 22:39:53< Gambit> It's amazing.
20100813 22:40:15< ancestral> according to my employer, saying "no comment" is a comment :-P
20100813 22:40:31< Gambit> ancestral: He also chooses "A wizard did it." over "It was a weather balloon." Go figure.
20100813 22:41:03< hylje> It's magic. I don't have to explain shit.
20100813 22:41:32< ancestral> Well, why not describe things how they might try to tell it in Wesnoth?
20100813 22:42:50< Gambit> Because Reality Isn't Wesnoth
20100813 22:43:07< ancestral> Q: "What happened to the server?" A: It was tainted with Orc blood and this needed to be cleansed.
20100813 22:43:11< Gambit> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BaitAndSwitch
20100813 22:43:13< shadowmaster> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/A_wizard_did_it
20100813 22:43:40< hylje> BZZT BZZT WIKI WALK LIKELINESS APPROACHES 1
20100813 22:46:04-!- Luigi_tuby [~luigi@80.66.214.31] has joined #wesnoth
20100813 22:46:14< SpoOkyMagician_> meh damn cold.... >.<
20100813 22:46:30< SpoOkyMagician_> (cold does 10 damage to SpoOkyMagician
20100813 22:46:43 * SpoOkyMagician_ blows nose and recovers 10 hp
20100813 22:46:48< SpoOkyMagician_> xD
20100813 22:47:08< ancestral> That's all it takes?
20100813 22:47:15< SpoOkyMagician_> if only... lol
20100813 22:47:26-!- SpoOkyMagician_ is now known as SpoOkyMagician
20100813 22:47:45< ancestral> Man I was so sweaty
20100813 22:47:52< ancestral> Cleaned out the old duplex
20100813 22:48:14< ancestral> Hopefully never have to go back there again
20100813 22:49:05< ancestral> Weather feels like utbs
20100813 22:49:49< Unnheulu> The Sun is burning
20100813 22:49:58< ancestral> It is
20100813 22:50:41< ancestral> According to Stephen Hawking we need to start moving tirades space if we want to survive past the next 200 years
20100813 22:51:00< ancestral> s/tirades/towered
20100813 22:51:06< ancestral> Bah auto text replacement
20100813 22:51:17< Unnheulu> iOS?
20100813 22:51:18< ancestral> s/tirades/towards
20100813 22:51:25< ancestral> You know it
20100813 22:51:51< ancestral> Still, could be worse
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20100813 23:08:14< Unnheulu> Meh, no-one ever comments on my thread^^
20100813 23:08:22 * Unnheulu wonders if that's a good or a bad thing
20100813 23:21:03< Unnheulu> thespaceinvader: there are outlines on the dark side of the unit
20100813 23:21:22< thespaceinvader> Yes.  They should be on all sides
20100813 23:21:29< VurtualRuler98> This just in: Stephen Hawking says we'd be doomed if we never left Earth.
20100813 23:21:30< thespaceinvader> cf how mainline does it
20100813 23:21:30< Unnheulu> Mm?
20100813 23:21:50-!- trewe [57c4b06f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.196.176.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20100813 23:21:57< thespaceinvader> MnHn
20100813 23:23:06< Unnheulu> And move the hilights more centre-limbs?
20100813 23:23:17< Unnheulu> /torso/face/whatever
20100813 23:24:11< Unnheulu> That'll take a while, I guess I'll work more on it in the morning...
20100813 23:24:13< Unnheulu> G'night
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 14 00:00:21 2010