--- Log opened Tue Aug 17 00:00:57 2010
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20100817 01:43:41< ultram> whats the difference between wesnoth and wesnoth-nolog?
20100817 01:45:53< Gambit> Well the former I've heard of and the latter I've not; but I don't think that's the difference you're looking for.
20100817 01:46:39< Gambit> this looks relevant: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23965&start=15
20100817 01:47:31< Gambit> ultram: Something to do with making it run smoother I think
20100817 01:48:01< Gambit> Actually no.
20100817 01:48:12< Gambit> Bah google is worthless.
20100817 01:48:52< ultram> yeah, well i googled myself
20100817 01:49:02< Gambit> ultram: The wesnoth wiki maybe?
20100817 01:49:13< ultram> and couldn't come up with anything
20100817 01:49:13< ultram> which is really rare
20100817 01:49:34< Gambit> Wiki didn't have any results.
20100817 01:49:45< Gambit> google and forum search hits are unrelated
20100817 01:49:48< ultram> when  i run wesnoth per icon it starts wesnoth-nolog
20100817 01:50:17< ultram> which is  not wesnoth -nolog , as in an additional option but a different executable than wesnoth
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20100817 02:35:47< Gambit> Wasn't there supposed to be an attack-icon-sized green checkmark image in trunk?
20100817 02:36:18< Gambit> I can't find it anywhere :(
20100817 02:38:36< Gambit> Oh... it seems Jetrel never decided whether or not it was appropriate :(
20100817 02:39:55< SpoOkyMagician> Gambit: you have up to date trunk? can you check something for me
20100817 02:40:07< Gambit> SpoOkyMagician: I have a few days old trunk if that's good enough.
20100817 02:40:10< Gambit> Like 2-3
20100817 02:40:15< SpoOkyMagician> thats fine
20100817 02:40:37< Gambit> Okay sure. What's up?
20100817 02:40:51< SpoOkyMagician> check the 2 images for key.png in items and key.png in misc. (see if the names are the same)
20100817 02:41:01< SpoOkyMagician> or do you know if that was changed
20100817 02:41:35< Gambit> in data/core or just images?
20100817 02:41:39< SpoOkyMagician> i noticed it conflicted with something in my campaign
20100817 02:41:43< SpoOkyMagician> in core yes
20100817 02:41:52< Gambit> key.png in misc
20100817 02:42:05< Gambit> and items
20100817 02:42:13< SpoOkyMagician> they need to be renamed
20100817 02:42:22< Gambit> SpoOkyMagician: How can in conflict? They're in different folders.
20100817 02:42:31< SpoOkyMagician> dunno how but -
20100817 02:42:35< Gambit> I thought it only assumes upto data/core/images/
20100817 02:42:39< SpoOkyMagician> someone said that the misc key was used
20100817 02:42:47< SpoOkyMagician> when i used the items key
20100817 02:42:56< Gambit> Even though you're using /items/key.png?
20100817 02:43:01< Gambit> Weird...
20100817 02:43:01< SpoOkyMagician> but i even use items/key.png
20100817 02:43:07< SpoOkyMagician> yea
20100817 02:43:19< SpoOkyMagician> (for a temp fix, i made my own)
20100817 02:43:24< Gambit> Maybe they're... "full of it"?
20100817 02:43:39< Gambit> (always a possibility!)
20100817 02:44:13< SpoOkyMagician> well i know the game links both image directories (in core and in the programs directory) but that cant be it
20100817 02:44:21< SpoOkyMagician> but idk... no expert on this matter
20100817 02:44:46< SpoOkyMagician> im just mostly curious why it happened
20100817 02:44:57< SpoOkyMagician> and if they were renamed or not
20100817 02:45:20< Gambit> SpoOkyMagician: But have you confirmed the issue?
20100817 02:45:34< Gambit> Could be a false report.
20100817 02:45:40< SpoOkyMagician> it was with another player.
20100817 02:45:50< SpoOkyMagician> i get the key in items on windows
20100817 02:45:54< SpoOkyMagician> no clue what he has/uses
20100817 02:46:07< SpoOkyMagician> ill give him a pm later.
20100817 02:46:24< Gambit> SpoOkyMagician: does your addon include any dependencies?
20100817 02:46:25< SpoOkyMagician> but thanks
20100817 02:46:32< SpoOkyMagician> no
20100817 02:46:53< SpoOkyMagician> im refering to MAP by the way
20100817 02:49:07< SpoOkyMagician> (but then again, it could be an unrelated addon causing the problem.)
20100817 02:49:20< SpoOkyMagician> who knows.
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20100817 02:52:57< SpoOkyMagician> i would still suggest the developers renaming it but just my opinion.
20100817 02:56:31< Gambit> Well for all intents and purposes they do have different names.
20100817 02:56:43< Gambit> one is misc/key.png and the other is items/key.png
20100817 02:56:57< Gambit> It shouldn't be possible for the game to get confused.
20100817 02:57:15< Gambit> And if you just use key.png it wouldn't find anything AFAIK.
20100817 02:57:44< Gambit> the only way I can think of that might confuse it is to have a dependency addon with an items/key.png
20100817 02:57:55< Gambit> (or an items/key.png in your own add-on)
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20100817 03:06:58< SpoOkyMagician> true... well, my add-on directly goes to "images/lock_key.png" so, that shouldn't be a problem... (with my new changes anyway.) but yea... more than likely some kind of flaw/errors with addons. that is the only thing I could think of myself.
20100817 03:07:19< SpoOkyMagician> with his add-ons. *
20100817 03:07:55< SpoOkyMagician> anyway, thanks. (returns to what he was doing)
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20100817 08:14:19< SpoOkyMagician> err oops
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20100817 08:15:37< SpoOkyMagician> meh whatever
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20100817 09:44:21< Ivanovic> moin
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20100817 11:34:49 * Unnheulu doesn't see why wesnoth couldn't make incase-sensitivity possible on all platforms...
20100817 11:35:17< Unnheulu> Stop making the Windows users penalizing us :P
20100817 11:36:54< Rhonda> incase-sensitivity? case-insensitivity? insane-caseivity?
20100817 11:37:10< Unnheulu> :/
20100817 11:37:15< Unnheulu> Case-insensitivity
20100817 11:37:30< Unnheulu> It's early in the morning! :P
20100817 11:37:30< Soliton> use fat32 for your addon dir!
20100817 11:37:35< vurtual_> Oh man, I'm running LINUX! I'm working on an OPEN SOURCE PROJECT! I have endless choice and customization, I'll never use money for software again! WHAT SHOULD I MAKE THIS RUN ON FIRST?
20100817 11:37:55< vurtual_> *glare at all the linux versions*
20100817 11:38:03< vurtual_> *glare at the one or two windows releases
20100817 11:38:06-!- vurtual_ is now known as VurtualRuler98
20100817 11:38:14< VurtualRuler98> *glare at lack of proper name*
20100817 11:38:52 * Rhonda laughs madly at "one or two", and immense incompatibilities between all of them that every new windows release brings. :)
20100817 11:39:57< Soliton> s/windows release/auto update/
20100817 11:40:01< VurtualRuler98> Okay, windows XP, you can probably get that to work in the 10 years people actually cared.
20100817 11:40:25< VurtualRuler98> Vista, okay, that probably is worth the effort. 7 is out now, if you consider the minor interface changes "new", no harm there.
20100817 11:40:47 * Unnheulu prefers Windows 7 to most of the others
20100817 11:41:16< VurtualRuler98> I still run Vista.
20100817 11:41:28< Unnheulu> I'd never use it out of choice, but that's because my main computer is all Linux spare for a Windows XP that came from another computer in the house
20100817 11:41:35< VurtualRuler98> Because monitor-side-snapping is a bad idea on dual monitors, and I know where the UAC off button is if I wanted it.
20100817 11:42:17< Unnheulu> Wait, it's bad for windows to snap to the side of the monitor?
20100817 11:42:28< Unnheulu> Since when? :P
20100817 11:42:33< VurtualRuler98> Yeah I don't think that works well in a double-monitor setup generally.
20100817 11:42:36-!- DiRaven [~diraven@8-11-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100817 11:42:47< VurtualRuler98> Especially when layering the windows over eachother gives you more space use.
20100817 11:43:04< Unnheulu> I kinda like it
20100817 11:43:24< Unnheulu> But then I only have one window per monitor=ide/fullscreen terminal or irc
20100817 11:43:35< Unnheulu> (Or game on top of IDE >.>)
20100817 11:43:41< VurtualRuler98> I should get another monitor, so I can have more wallpapers.
20100817 11:43:55-!- Naeddyr [~Kristian@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-ff0ec000-125.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #wesnoth
20100817 11:44:20< VurtualRuler98> Because there are sooo many different iterations of the Quake console to use now that I have the quake collection, and I have a hard time picking. :(
20100817 11:44:32< Naeddyr> haha
20100817 11:44:36< Naeddyr> what a dilemma
20100817 11:44:41< Naeddyr> "Oh no!"
20100817 11:44:42< Unnheulu> :-)
20100817 11:44:49< Naeddyr> "What console should I wear to QuakeCon 2010??!"
20100817 11:44:55< VurtualRuler98> ...what?
20100817 11:45:03< VurtualRuler98> ...that doesn't even make logical sense.
20100817 11:45:07< Naeddyr> no it doesn't
20100817 11:45:29< VurtualRuler98> I have the background to the dev console of Quake 2 as the wallpaper to my second monitor.
20100817 11:45:49< VurtualRuler98> But now that I have the first quake here, and the mission packs, and quake 3, to boot... I'm indecisive of which to use.
20100817 11:46:07< Naeddyr> bah that is a bit more boring than i imagined
20100817 11:46:42< VurtualRuler98> I'm considering making Quake itself run as the background.
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20100817 11:47:11< Naeddyr> demos?
20100817 11:47:19< Naeddyr> are there any self-playing Quake bots out there
20100817 11:48:04< VurtualRuler98> Maybe just a still setting, scrolling between maps, clearing the console on launch and instead typing "Desktop background initialized.", then changing between the various maps, the console down.
20100817 11:48:30< VurtualRuler98> and then typing into the console lets you say, start a self-playing multiplayer match.
20100817 11:48:55< Naeddyr> sounds like a fun project
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20100817 11:53:23< VurtualRuler98> There's also fun stuff like making a file browser modification, or make the logo background itself into a map, and have gradual, flickering lights bounce off it.
20100817 11:54:19< Naeddyr> file-browser modification inside the console or the game?
20100817 11:54:20< Naeddyr> god
20100817 11:54:22< Naeddyr> that takes me back
20100817 11:54:31< Naeddyr> to when i was, like, 13
20100817 11:54:40< VurtualRuler98> for the game probably
20100817 11:54:46< Naeddyr> and thought that a 3d first-person file-browser would have been the greatest thing ever
20100817 11:54:52< VurtualRuler98> There is one
20100817 11:54:55< VurtualRuler98> It's a unix system, I know this.
20100817 11:55:42< VurtualRuler98> But, like, each major folder on my desktop, that's a different room. Connected by a giant quake logo room, floating in a void, with clouds scrolling about.
20100817 11:56:01< Unnheulu> :/
20100817 11:56:24< VurtualRuler98> Each room has a different theme to it, and accessing any of the files by shooting them on the big surface in the middle, would dynamically show the other folders.
20100817 11:56:28< VurtualRuler98> Mostly useless, but cool, right?
20100817 11:56:48< Naeddyr> yeah
20100817 11:57:10< VurtualRuler98> Delete file=kill shambler. Never delete files again.
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20100817 12:26:13< Unnheulu> Awesome
20100817 12:26:20< Unnheulu> Bellamy is joining Cardiff
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20100817 12:46:47< Unnheulu> Ouch, svn up taking ages
20100817 12:46:56< Unnheulu> Prediction for extra-long compiling time
20100817 12:52:57< Unnheulu> Finally translations finished=no more conflicts
20100817 12:53:00< Unnheulu> And svn up finished
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20100817 14:32:41< Altreus> Where should wesnoth.cfg be stored for the wesnoth server on debian?
20100817 14:32:52< Altreus> I tried /etc/ but no such wesnoth anything
20100817 14:34:00< Altreus> I mean wesnothd.cfg
20100817 14:41:35< Gambit> wesnothd should be the same place as wesnoth
20100817 14:42:00< Gambit> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Wesnothd
20100817 14:46:00< Altreus> but wesnoth is run as user and wesnothd as root
20100817 14:46:11< Altreus> also it's a headless server so no wesnoth in the first place
20100817 14:47:53< Gambit> Ah. Sorry. I thought you were a regular user trying to host a lan server. But whatever you're doing appears to be over my head.
20100817 14:48:46< Altreus> aha
20100817 14:49:01< Altreus> no sweat - I can always edit /etc/init.d/wesnothd-1.8
20100817 14:49:15< Altreus> That way I can put a -c on the command line and specify the config file
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20100817 15:02:20< Soliton> Altreus: yes, pretty sure you need to add the -c argument. there is no default config.
20100817 15:02:59< Altreus> Soliton: OK, thanks :)
20100817 15:03:42< Soliton> you could bug Rhonda about adding -c /etc/wesnothd.cfg to the init script or something.
20100817 15:04:40< Altreus> And a default wesnothd maybe. Although it works perfectly well without any config at all, which makes me happy
20100817 15:05:22< Altreus> ah there's a handy $DAEMON_ARGS in there
20100817 15:07:24< Altreus> Hmm ... what should I look for to find docs on this "deny_unregistered_login"? i.e. how people register/auth
20100817 15:07:56< Altreus> wuld be handy
20100817 15:08:54< Soliton> at wesnoth.org we auth against a php forum db. man wesnothd might have some stuff about that.
20100817 15:09:29< Soliton> best to ask here and provide patches to the docs later probably. ;-)
20100817 15:10:25 * Altreus mans up wesnothd
20100817 15:13:02< shadowmaster> it isn't very well documented IIRC, and Baufo kind of disappeared afterwards
20100817 15:14:18< Altreus> OK it looks fairly straightforward
20100817 15:14:25< Altreus> Set up a database for it basically
20100817 15:14:43< Altreus> I suspect it only works with mysql
20100817 15:21:11< Soliton> yes.
20100817 15:23:37< shadowmaster> if you are really going to proceed with integrating wesnothd into a phpBB 3 forum I can provide a patch to ensure that user registrations follow the same username rules as wesnothd.
20100817 15:24:02< shadowmaster> I have the diff for Git but I could make a MODX if you want.
20100817 15:24:21< Altreus> shadowmaster: no I don't want a BB, just auth
20100817 15:24:26< Altreus> easy enough - set up a table
20100817 15:24:36< shadowmaster> okay.
20100817 15:24:45< Altreus> The structure of the table would be very useful, however
20100817 15:26:22< shadowmaster> I guess I'll release a MODX at some point anyway just in case there's people out there who want and can integrate wesnothd into a phpBB 3 board.
20100817 15:27:05< shadowmaster> maybe one of those clan thingies could use that.
20100817 15:27:26< Altreus> sounds handy
20100817 15:28:25< Rhonda> Soliton: There is no default config?
20100817 15:28:45< Rhonda> It surely worked before somehow.
20100817 15:28:56< Soliton> Rhonda: well, there are built-in defaults.
20100817 15:29:04< Rhonda> Right.
20100817 15:29:17< Soliton> it's not a question of working but ease of customization.
20100817 15:29:17< Rhonda> Aren't they sane enough? :)
20100817 15:29:23< Soliton> of course!
20100817 15:29:38< Rhonda> Oh. You mean that it wouldn't look for a default configuration in case no -c is given?
20100817 15:29:46< Soliton> indeed.
20100817 15:29:53< Rhonda> That sounds rather like a misfeature to me, to be honest.
20100817 15:30:19< Soliton> well, how would you implement that in a platform independent way?
20100817 15:30:36< Soliton> if anything not pretty...
20100817 15:31:13< Rhonda> There are already various platform depending #ifdefs, aren't there.
20100817 15:31:26< Rhonda> Like for the path to the wesnothd in the first place, for having it startable by the client.
20100817 15:31:47 * Altreus checks
20100817 15:31:56< Altreus> oh, client
20100817 15:31:57< Altreus> nvm
20100817 15:32:06< Soliton> who cares about the client? not me! :-P
20100817 15:32:15< shadowmaster> wesnoth has a few of those #ifdefs itself
20100817 15:32:18< Altreus> How many platforms use /etc/init.d, out of interest?
20100817 15:32:32< Rhonda> Soliton: src/game_preferences_display.cpp 1253 and following.
20100817 15:32:49< shadowmaster> ISTR that opensuse had /etc/init.d as a symlink to /etc/rc.d but I don't know about the rest
20100817 15:32:53< Soliton> i'm sure there are plenty in the client.
20100817 15:33:00< Soliton> not sure how relevant that is.
20100817 15:33:27< Rhonda> It is to the extend that there is no reason to use it as an argument to "implement that in a platform independent way"
20100817 15:33:48< Soliton> i don't see how.
20100817 15:34:09< Rhonda> ?
20100817 15:34:19< Altreus> I don't know if it's a huge bother. Anyone capable of running wesnothd from init.d should be able to put a -c in the DAEMON_ARGS
20100817 15:34:24< Soliton> we have platform dependent code! so it's simple to add any feature in a platform independent way!
20100817 15:34:29< Altreus> just a nice-to-have
20100817 15:34:48< Soliton> Altreus: and keep it there on an update etc. :-)
20100817 15:36:45< Altreus> Soliton: yeah. Although that starts being awkward when you've customised it
20100817 15:39:15< Soliton> exactly my point. just customizing the wesnothd.cfg wouldn't be.
20100817 15:40:06< Altreus> oh I see, so if you default it to /etc/wesnothd.cfg then the init.d script would be consistent
20100817 15:40:07< Soliton> (it wouldn't be in the package.)
20100817 15:40:13< Altreus> yeah
20100817 15:40:18 * Soliton nods.
20100817 15:40:28< Altreus> I'm sure debian packages can have file-exists-but-content-irrelevant things
20100817 15:41:05< Altreus> Also, the debian package maintainer can probably add that. Plus any other system that uses the same setup
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20100817 15:47:04 * Unnheulu asks what campaigns are most likely for mainline now
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20100817 15:51:15< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: none.
20100817 15:51:21< Unnheulu> Ok :)
20100817 15:51:28< shadowmaster> you would do us all a favor by not using CTCP ACTION to ask that kind of things.
20100817 15:51:38< Unnheulu> CTCP ACTION?
20100817 15:51:43< Unnheulu> Ah, /me
20100817 15:51:46< shadowmaster> yes
20100817 15:52:11< shadowmaster> I don't expect relevant questions to pop up in those, so I ignore them most of the time. I only read your "question" by accident above.
20100817 15:52:15< shadowmaster> anyway, afk.
20100817 15:52:44< Unnheulu> Harsh much on Cpt. Wrathbone?
20100817 15:53:01< Unnheulu> (Not that I challenge your or anything, just think maybe a little harsh)
20100817 15:53:08< shadowmaster> you'd also do me a favor if you followed the advice I gave to him as well
20100817 15:53:56< Unnheulu> Not commenting on legalese or second guessing admins donations?
20100817 15:54:04< Rhonda> Alright, will do it so with the next upload.
20100817 15:54:10< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: none since you are completely missing the point
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20100817 15:54:15< Rhonda> Altreus: Can you file a bugreport about it? :)
20100817 15:54:18< shadowmaster> so bye for now
20100817 15:54:33< Rhonda> Altreus: In the Debian BTS of course, not the wesnoth one.
20100817 15:55:30-!- mode/#wesnoth [+o shadowmaster] by ChanServ
20100817 15:55:42-!- mode/#wesnoth [+q-o *!*@*.82.5.11.33 shadowmaster] by shadowmaster
20100817 15:57:13< Altreus> Rhonda: sir yes sir
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20100817 15:58:12< Soliton> Gambit: btw, the lobby echo channels are not secret or they'd be set as such.
20100817 15:59:19< Gambit> Okay. I'll let him know then if/when he shows up today.
20100817 16:04:32< Gambit> Ah I see. It's actually -s.
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20100817 16:21:08< Rhonda> Altreus: maam, please.
20100817 16:21:19< Altreus> Rhonda: yes ma'am
20100817 16:21:48< Altreus> i did debate that but then I had a flashback to a crappy movie I saw where the lady officer was referred to as sir so I thought that would apply IRL
20100817 16:22:21< hylje> that was the crappy movie doing its magic
20100817 16:22:39< Altreus> I live by the morals they teach me
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20100817 17:57:12< Naeddyr> gah
20100817 17:57:15< Naeddyr> i just had an idea
20100817 17:57:21< Naeddyr> and searched the ideas forum for it
20100817 17:57:31< Naeddyr> and there's one thread which is pretty much dead :|
20100817 17:57:57< Naeddyr> Ideas Forum? More like Ideas ghetto.
20100817 18:01:22< Necrosporus> I wonder, where can I ask about Xye (some puzzle+reaction game) if channel #xye is empty?
20100817 18:01:53-!- bp0 [~bp@unaffiliated/bp0] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20100817 18:02:35< joo> I think you're fucked. It's not like there are any other places on the internet besides IRC, or even other IRC networks.
20100817 18:05:28< shadowmaster> who is what?
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20100817 20:31:41< Hula> Hi
20100817 20:35:31-!- Zarel [~Zarel@warzone2100/developer/Zarel] has joined #wesnoth
20100817 20:35:37< Zarel> shadowmaster: Poke.
20100817 20:36:01< Zarel> So I just realized, on Google Chrome, the [spoiler] tag just keeps displaying "Show", it doesn't change to "hide" after it opens.
20100817 20:37:07< Rhonda> Altreus: Probably crappy US centric movie with women that have balls. :)
20100817 20:37:32< Zarel> Rhonda: It sounds like I missed an important part of the context of that sentence. ;)
20100817 20:38:26< Rhonda> Read logs?
20100817 20:38:52< Zarel> shadowmaster: Same goes for the section tag.
20100817 20:39:14< Rhonda> And you want the forum to work around chrome shortcomings?
20100817 20:40:01< Zarel> Rhonda: If by "Chrome shortcomings" you mean "code that doesn't conform to the ECMAScript standards", then yes.
20100817 20:40:21< Zarel> Though to be fair, much useful and important JavaScript doesn't.
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20100817 20:42:32< Gambit> Zarel: can you go to eclipse.wesnoth.org ?
20100817 20:42:43< Gambit> Zarel: It doesn't appear to work in chrome either. :(
20100817 20:43:06< Zarel> Yeah, it doesn't. :|
20100817 20:45:00< Hula> Eh
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20100817 20:53:29< Hula> e_s-iOS: Hi
20100817 20:53:33< e_s-iOS> Hi.
20100817 20:53:40< Hula> I'm at school
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20100817 21:00:57< Gambit> this person's avatar scares me: http://forums.wesnoth.org/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=122761
20100817 21:01:15< Hula> Gambit: I can't see it because of the censors
20100817 21:01:22< Hula> Can you send me a link to the file?
20100817 21:01:34< Hula> Wait
20100817 21:01:35< Hula> nvm
20100817 21:01:37< Hula> It won't work
20100817 21:01:49< Gambit> Yeah the url is still pretty much the same
20100817 21:01:57< Hula> What is it anyway?
20100817 21:02:11< Gambit> Its the head of a general on the gold armor item
20100817 21:02:13< Gambit> with troll arms
20100817 21:02:18< Gambit> and a dwarf axe
20100817 21:02:21< Hula> Oh
20100817 21:02:23< Gambit> on royal guard legs
20100817 21:02:25< Hula> Mabuse?
20100817 21:02:32< Gambit> No "golden soldier"
20100817 21:02:35< Hula> Yeah
20100817 21:02:36< Hula> forgot
20100817 21:03:44< Gambit> Man every time I go into ~/.wesnoth/ and see that "persist" folder
20100817 21:03:49< Gambit> A little part of me comes back to life inside.
20100817 21:04:09< Gambit> Even if it's just one lonely variable
20100817 21:04:11< Gambit> "foo=cheese"
20100817 21:05:10< Hula> Gambit: How do I make Janebot do negatives?
20100817 21:05:50< Gambit> Hula: 14--20 is 14+20 :P
20100817 21:05:55< Gambit> And I hope you're not using her to cheat...
20100817 21:06:15< Hula> No, I'm not "in school"
20100817 21:06:19< Hula> I'm "at school"
20100817 21:06:23< Hula> My mom's a teacher
20100817 21:06:34< Hula> And I'm in her classroom
20100817 21:07:38< Gambit> Ah. True homeschooling.
20100817 21:07:53< Gambit> I tried that; it was awkward;
20100817 21:08:08< hylje> it gave you a fondness for semicolons;
20100817 21:08:24< Gambit> hylje: Typo.
20100817 21:08:29< Gambit> The same typo; twice.
20100817 21:08:39< Gambit> Though, I am fond of semicolons.
20100817 21:09:16< Gambit> I think I mentioned it once somewhere...
20100817 21:09:25< Gambit> That it was my new favorite punctuation mark.
20100817 21:09:34< Hula> Actually I'm NOT getting homeschooled
20100817 21:09:35< Gambit> (Yes! It's normal to have favorite punctuation marks!)
20100817 21:09:42< Hula> I'm just doing my homework in the last week
20100817 21:10:04< Hula> I also installed Wesnoth on the computer so I'm playing it too XSD
20100817 21:10:05< Hula> *XD
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20100817 21:14:20< Gambit> Hula: what version?
20100817 21:14:40< Hula> 1.4.7
20100817 21:14:47< Gambit> Oh... nevermind
20100817 21:14:48< Hula> These computers are pretty old
20100817 21:15:00< Hula> You wanted to play Breaking Ground or something?
20100817 21:15:10< Gambit> Hula: Actually I've started a little something on 1.9
20100817 21:15:18-!- ABCD [~abcd@gentoo/developer/abcd] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100817 21:15:20< Hula> There's a 1.9?
20100817 21:15:33< Gambit> Well there will be in a few days.
20100817 21:15:38< Gambit> I guess technically it's "trunk" atm
20100817 21:15:39< Hula> ooh
20100817 21:15:43< Naeddyr> ooh
20100817 21:15:49< Gambit> *there's planned to be in a few days
20100817 21:15:50< Hula> So 1.8 is done?
20100817 21:15:56< Naeddyr> i want
20100817 21:16:00< Naeddyr> new terrains
20100817 21:16:02< Gambit> Hula: no
20100817 21:16:14< Gambit> Hula: You've been here long enough to know how this works.
20100817 21:16:16< Naeddyr> *slobber*
20100817 21:16:21< Gambit> 1.even_number is the stable branch
20100817 21:16:21< Hula> Nope, I haven't
20100817 21:16:25< Hula> I know
20100817 21:16:28< Hula> But I thought
20100817 21:16:33< Gambit> 1.odd_number is developmental/beta/experimental/whatever you want to call it
20100817 21:16:33< Hula> that they finish a stable version
20100817 21:16:41< Hula> before they start another development cycle
20100817 21:16:48< Gambit> They're developed concurrently, but stable only gets bug fixes.
20100817 21:16:49-!- daglees [~belvedere@unaffiliated/daglees] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20100817 21:17:00< Gambit> Development gets the new features and bug fixes.
20100817 21:17:16< Gambit> 1.7 didn't get enough loving.
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20100817 21:17:23< Hula> Will the WML from 1.8 work in 1.9?
20100817 21:17:27< Gambit> So 1.8.0 had a lot of unfound bugs (specifically in the lobby)
20100817 21:17:33< Gambit> Hula: Yes, but now there's MOAR
20100817 21:17:37< zookeeper> Hula, mostly
20100817 21:17:39< Hula> Yaaay
20100817 21:17:43< Hula> nooo
20100817 21:17:56< Gambit> zookeeper: Really?
20100817 21:18:00< Gambit> What's incompatable :o
20100817 21:18:14< Naeddyr> so is there coming a stable 1.10 branch out?
20100817 21:18:20< Hula> Yes
20100817 21:18:23< Naeddyr> (and a 1.11 dev branch?)
20100817 21:18:24< Naeddyr> ok
20100817 21:18:25< Gambit> Naeddyr: It comes out when it comes out. :D
20100817 21:18:34< Gambit> Naeddyr: Oh you didn't say "when" sorry :P
20100817 21:18:40< Naeddyr> but you promiiiiised :(
20100817 21:19:00< Hula> I'm guessing zookeeper is typing up an extremely long list
20100817 21:19:11< zookeeper> Gambit, i don't recall. a few minor differences i guess...and some removed macros etc
20100817 21:19:12< Gambit> dubito
20100817 21:19:16< Hula> ok
20100817 21:19:41< Hula> I'm looking forward to the new portraits and the Armageddon Drake
20100817 21:19:48< Gambit> Hula: We can save variables to files now :D
20100817 21:19:52 * Gambit giddy
20100817 21:20:00< Gambit> I tried to start a discussion in WML workshop about it
20100817 21:20:08< Hula> What do you mean by that?
20100817 21:20:12< Gambit> But apparently I'm the only one who gets all orgasmic by the feature.
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20100817 21:20:41< Gambit> Hula: Your variables in your campaign. They could be saved to a file and persist even when someoen starts a new game if you wanted.
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20100817 21:20:59< Gambit> Hula: For example, don't let them play hard until they've beaten easy
20100817 21:21:08< Gambit> Or something like that.
20100817 21:21:09< Hula> oh
20100817 21:21:21< hylje> persistence is awesome for custom games, be they maps or campaigns
20100817 21:21:29< Gambit> Hula: Or have the game remember their recall list
20100817 21:21:35< Gambit> And make an MP map that uses it
20100817 21:21:54< Hula> wait, so...
20100817 21:22:02< Gambit> I'm hoping to see a SX mod with persistent characters
20100817 21:22:08< Hula> If they got 5 units in their list by the time they beat level 2,
20100817 21:22:12< Hula> Then what?
20100817 21:22:40< Gambit> Hula: You could store those units into variables
20100817 21:22:45< Gambit> And then transfer them to a file.
20100817 21:22:48< hylje> whatever your persistence code wants to do with them
20100817 21:22:57< Gambit> Yeah. What he said^
20100817 21:22:59< Hula> Is this a feature for the player or the developer?
20100817 21:23:02< Gambit> "whatever" you want
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20100817 21:23:16< Gambit> Hula: UMC devs.
20100817 21:23:25< hylje> it could convert the listed units to unicorn points for all i care
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20100817 21:23:30< Hula> I'm still not clear on it, but 
20100817 21:23:51< Gambit> Hula: When you start a campaign over (a new game) you start completely from scratch yes?
20100817 21:24:08< Gambit> Hula: When you load up a game of multiplayer you start from scratch.
20100817 21:24:16< Naeddyr> sidenote, I haven't posted on the forum for years: do Art Contributors avatars automatically?
20100817 21:24:18< Gambit> It doesn't have to be that way anymore.
20100817 21:24:32< hylje> one thing that could be intriguing is the ability to a custom map to offer "official" games by pinging the umc dev's server as the multiplayer game is hosted
20100817 21:24:44< Hula> yes
20100817 21:24:55< hylje> say, through an opt-in checkbox built in to the game so abuse should be minimal
20100817 21:25:00< Gambit> Hula: Imagine campaigns that remembered things.
20100817 21:25:27< Hula> Whats the difference between this and saved games?
20100817 21:25:41< hylje> you get to pick what gets saved
20100817 21:25:51< hylje> and you can change maps from under
20100817 21:25:54< Gambit> I can't explain it really. I'll have to whip up something that puts it to use.
20100817 21:26:24< Gambit> Hula: Okay have you ever played Survival Extreme?
20100817 21:26:25< hylje> ideally the official server could wind up a special client that joins that hosted game to spectate for legitimacy and do special events too
20100817 21:26:27< Hula> Yes
20100817 21:26:31< Gambit> Hula: Okay good.
20100817 21:26:59< Hula> Wait, does this make it possible to have recall lists in MP?
20100817 21:27:03< Gambit> So you and some friends are playing. And they all die. "Aww can we rehost?".
20100817 21:27:09< Gambit> "Sure. I'll reload."
20100817 21:27:18< Gambit> And when you reload, you start with your character from last game.
20100817 21:27:30< Gambit> And the game adjusts the difficulty and start gold accordingly.
20100817 21:27:31< Hula> That's cool, I guess
20100817 21:27:43< Hula> But you start at the beginning?
20100817 21:27:55< Gambit> Well.. you don't have to I guess.
20100817 21:28:03< Gambit> There's no reason it couldn't remember where you were.
20100817 21:28:14< Gambit> So yeah take that one step further. A role playing game on a 200x200 map.
20100817 21:28:15< Hula> So why not reload a save?
20100817 21:28:23< Gambit> Hula: your friends died
20100817 21:28:30< Gambit> Hula: Also what happens when you win?
20100817 21:28:31< hylje> you might have picked up new friends
20100817 21:28:35< Hula> eh..
20100817 21:28:37< Gambit> Your character is gone.
20100817 21:28:41< hylje> you might want to try different settings
20100817 21:28:42< Gambit> Start a new game with him!
20100817 21:28:45< Hula> I guess it'll make more sense when I try it
20100817 21:28:53< Hula> to me, at least
20100817 21:29:03< Gambit> Hula: Or if you want to play with the same character and a different group of friends
20100817 21:29:06< Gambit> And their characters.
20100817 21:29:17< Gambit> Hula: Basically your character is no longer bound to one instance of a game.
20100817 21:29:35< Gambit> Or rather it won't be once someone codes that ;)
20100817 21:29:42< hylje> it doesn't need to be
20100817 21:30:14< Hula> Does that make it possible to have recalls in MP?
20100817 21:30:21< hylje> sure, with caveats
20100817 21:30:29< Gambit> Now imagine a role player on a big 200x200 map. You're playing with Bob and Alice and Superman.
20100817 21:30:36< Gambit> Superman has to go for a dentist appointment.
20100817 21:30:41< Gambit> Billy wants to play now!
20100817 21:30:50< Gambit> But billy doesn't want Superman's side. That's lame.
20100817 21:31:06< Gambit> So you host a new game. Your character, inventory, and stats, and everything everything everything are stil lthere.
20100817 21:31:10< Gambit> So is Alice and Bob's stuff.
20100817 21:31:15< Gambit> But superman's stuff is gone.
20100817 21:31:20< Naeddyr> oh no
20100817 21:31:23< Gambit> Billy's stuff from last time he played the add-on gets loaded.
20100817 21:31:27< hylje> And Batman just came online, and wants to get on with you!
20100817 21:31:47< Gambit> Quitters in wesband will become a thing of the past.
20100817 21:32:02< Hula> So it's like WoW and you get to keep your "characters"?
20100817 21:32:10< Gambit> Hula: ... yes -_-
20100817 21:32:13< Gambit> It's like WoW -_-
20100817 21:32:19< Hula> =)
20100817 21:32:26< hylje> but i dont think the characters are stored in someone's server
20100817 21:32:29< Hula> Yay
20100817 21:32:34< Naeddyr> it's also like Diablo
20100817 21:32:48< Gambit> (Well and this is just RPGs)
20100817 21:32:48< Naeddyr> but not like Starcraft
20100817 21:32:51< hylje> i'd like to think having a mechanism to hook to custom persistence servers would be a nice next step
20100817 21:32:52< Gambit> They're the easiest to apply this too.
20100817 21:33:19< hylje> so, if the developer wants, cheating can be recorded and prevented to a large degree
20100817 21:33:21< Hula> Naeddyr: Why would anyone think it's like StarCraft
20100817 21:33:24< Gambit> Hula: Now imagine a pokemon-esque single player campaign.
20100817 21:33:32< Gambit> Hula: With a multiplayer battle arena.
20100817 21:33:43< Gambit> Everyone's wesmon get loaded when they play the MP arena.
20100817 21:33:45< Naeddyr> Hula: I was just finishing the Big Three Blizzard franchises.
20100817 21:33:48< Gambit> Or an MP trading map.
20100817 21:34:03< Hula> Naeddyr: k
20100817 21:34:09< hylje> you forgot WC3
20100817 21:34:18< Gambit> (The school?)
20100817 21:34:23< hylje> which actually had singleplayer persistence between campaign maps
20100817 21:34:38< Gambit> (The consortium?)
20100817 21:34:45< hylje> the warcraft
20100817 21:35:50< Hula> Tolkien is the first to use "Orc" right?
20100817 21:36:22< Gambit> I don't think Tolkien was the first to /.+/
20100817 21:36:30< hylje> wc3 also had nonlinear persistence, but no mp persistence sadly
20100817 21:36:34< Gambit> He just made it all popular.
20100817 21:36:41< Hula> I mean,
20100817 21:36:45< hylje> tolkien is a fag
20100817 21:36:46< Hula> ]He invented the orc,
20100817 21:36:52< Gambit> Hula: I don't think so.
20100817 21:37:04< Hula> I thought he did
20100817 21:37:15< Hula> I read that he got it from somewhere (Beowulf, I think)
20100817 21:37:18< elias> only the Hobbit, that's why no wesnoth unit can be named like that
20100817 21:38:08< Gambit> And of course all add-ons should come with achievements now.
20100817 21:38:10< hylje> halfling, though..
20100817 21:38:15< Gambit> s/achievements/trophies/
20100817 21:38:32< hylje> oh yeah, that's the thing
20100817 21:38:42< Gambit> The one thing is that you ought to obsfucate your persistent variable names.
20100817 21:38:43< Hula> Yeah, achievements
20100817 21:38:45< Gambit> They're stored in plain text.
20100817 21:39:05< Hula> This kinda makes me want to work on the campaign again
20100817 21:39:16< Hula> But where would the achievements be seen?
20100817 21:39:22< Gambit> For the wesmon idea I'll be encrypting the names and values.
20100817 21:39:39< Gambit> Hula: Well in SP you'd have to have a right click menu for them to view their stuff.
20100817 21:39:54< hylje> one reason more to create server hooks for persistence: public value storage and if needed, verification during play
20100817 21:39:54< Gambit> Unless... if every add-on used the trophies. namespace
20100817 21:40:11< Gambit> Then one scenario could be made that was a tophy gallery
20100817 21:40:19< Hula> brb
20100817 21:40:36< Naeddyr> The word "orc" isn't originally Tolkien's, but in general the monsters it's been used to didn't really resemble Tolkien's goblinoids.
20100817 21:41:10< hylje> the warcraft / warhammer orc physique i think is the contemporary one
20100817 21:41:23< Naeddyr> that
20100817 21:41:30< Naeddyr> 's slightly nonsequitur
20100817 21:41:38< Hula> I gotta go
20100817 21:41:49< Naeddyr> is it time for Finn facts
20100817 21:41:52< Hula> Orientations and whatnot to go to
20100817 21:41:55< Hula> Plus a rehearsal
20100817 21:41:57< Naeddyr> now that we're on to Tolkien and his language use
20100817 21:42:14< Hula> bye
20100817 21:42:16< hylje> finnish me
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20100817 21:42:27< Naeddyr> hylje you should know better
20100817 21:42:50< Naeddyr> '"finnish" him' is the most overused finn-pun ever :(
20100817 21:42:54< Naeddyr> we can do better
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20100817 21:43:28< hylje> but i don't care to!
20100817 21:44:17< Naeddyr> young man, you have to czech that attitude
20100817 21:45:07< hylje> besides i'm le tired
20100817 21:45:51< Naeddyr> it's never too late for bad nationality-based puns
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20100817 21:52:30< Gambit> Well that's strange. 1.9 just crashed when I tried to upload an add-on :(
20100817 21:53:47< Gambit> And doing it a second time didn't fix it :)
20100817 21:54:27< hylje> D:
20100817 21:54:30< hylje> you reproduced it!
20100817 21:54:41< hylje> now go make a dev upload it
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 18 00:00:03 2010