--- Log opened Sun Aug 29 00:00:52 2010
20100829 00:01:07< santippe> o just want to build a generator with more 10 players
20100829 00:01:20< VurtualRuler98> ...why?
20100829 00:01:31< santippe> in a 100x100 map 9 player are too few...
20100829 00:01:34< VurtualRuler98> "I must make it go up to 11 because I can" thing?
20100829 00:01:41< VurtualRuler98> Ahaahaha wow, 100x100
20100829 00:01:53< VurtualRuler98> reminds me of that one 200x200 map I did, that was absurdly ugly, which was mostly ocean.
20100829 00:03:01< santippe> however i rebuild the generator codes for placing tree,hills, tree on hills and desert
20100829 00:03:04< hylje> 20 players, simultaneous turns
20100829 00:03:14< hylje> go do it
20100829 00:03:29< santippe> and it's quite good
20100829 00:04:27< ushiu> yeah and tree on hills
20100829 00:05:09< VurtualRuler98> You could do like, 36 player games if you did something like split each functional team into 3 players+a commander.
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20100829 00:06:04< santippe> the deafault generator doeasn't use trees on hills or snowly trees
20100829 00:06:05< VurtualRuler98> the commander-player alloting units from spawn to any one group of their side. It'd probably be fun, even though you'd control like two units.
20100829 00:06:28< santippe> mmm
20100829 00:06:37< santippe> i've thought about it...
20100829 00:06:53< hylje> nah, i think the #1 blocker to outrageous player counts is turn progression
20100829 00:07:02< hylje> and that can be fixed with some sort of simultaneous turn implementation
20100829 00:07:03< VurtualRuler98> all of a side move at once.
20100829 00:07:17< VurtualRuler98> only able to command their units in control
20100829 00:08:11< hylje> preferably in a fashion that takes the commands from all players and when everyone has locked the commands ("end turn") or timeout it will resolve everyone's commands at once
20100829 00:08:36< VurtualRuler98> I think the "every player on the same side can simeltaneously move their units, as if they were from one keyboard" idea works too.
20100829 00:09:08< santippe> the one simultaneous mode i've seen in a strategy game was risk II
20100829 00:09:21< santippe> and there were some rules to prevent bug action
20100829 00:09:29< VurtualRuler98> I'm thinking of springrts comshare
20100829 00:09:47< hylje> the real problem with simultaneous resolve-once is having predictable behavior
20100829 00:10:01< VurtualRuler98> which is really fun.
20100829 00:10:04< hylje> having players resolve ambiguous situations as they come is not an option
20100829 00:10:17< santippe> yes
20100829 00:10:51< santippe> even if i believe that the game system will be easier if just the defender has a defence bonus
20100829 00:11:42< hylje> nah. the game mechanics should be the same regardless of turn system
20100829 00:11:56< hylje> but the turn system could involve setting tactical preferences for units
20100829 00:12:10< santippe> i.e..?
20100829 00:12:29< hylje> so if during resolving a unit encounters an enemy, it can have a player-given preference to fight or do nothing
20100829 00:13:01< santippe> fight or flee...
20100829 00:13:22< VurtualRuler98> What about pre-choosing our unit level ups?
20100829 00:13:34< VurtualRuler98> Instead of "hurr someone levelled it for you now you get a unit you don't want."
20100829 00:13:36< hylje> that could be another thing for the same UI
20100829 00:14:10< hylje> a tactical preference panel for decisions that happen outside the player's turn
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20100829 00:14:48< VurtualRuler98> You could even extend it and give units options that affect the combat rolls, but someone would go HURR TOO COMPLEX.
20100829 00:14:57< santippe> i don't think that u want to not level up..
20100829 00:15:16< VurtualRuler98> No, like, say, your spearman levels up outside of your turn, it becomes a pikeman
20100829 00:15:18< VurtualRuler98> What if you wanted a swordsman?
20100829 00:15:30< hylje> i don't see there being that many options
20100829 00:15:34< santippe> oh for taht i say
20100829 00:15:47< santippe> that every unit would have a single path
20100829 00:15:59< VurtualRuler98> I'm sorta imagining modern weapons, but there's probably a few options for some units and factions too.
20100829 00:16:41< santippe> if every unit will upgrade in just another the problem is solved
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20100829 00:16:56< VurtualRuler98> I like the "pre-choose the fork" idea
20100829 00:17:10< VurtualRuler98> If this game gets any simpler I think the AI will start pulling a chess on us
20100829 00:17:51< santippe> mmm
20100829 00:17:54< hylje> upgrade path, fight/flee, what other decisions could happen between turns?
20100829 00:18:11< santippe> ok
20100829 00:18:16< santippe> for simultaneous turn...
20100829 00:18:27< santippe> i think that will be simultaenous combat too :D
20100829 00:18:27< hylje> especially for simultaneous, resolve-once
20100829 00:19:00< VurtualRuler98> defensive stance of some units maybe
20100829 00:19:08< hylje> civ4 style simultaneous turns lean the game toward timing, which i think is undesirable
20100829 00:19:08< VurtualRuler98> It'd probably give more dimension to the cardboard-factions.
20100829 00:19:23< VurtualRuler98> ...CIV IV doesn't have simeltaneous turns.
20100829 00:19:28< hylje> it does
20100829 00:19:28< santippe> yep!
20100829 00:19:31< santippe> no
20100829 00:19:35< santippe> where?
20100829 00:19:39< santippe> whic mod?
20100829 00:19:42< santippe> ...
20100829 00:19:42< VurtualRuler98> ...I was just playing it.
20100829 00:19:44< VurtualRuler98> and it didn't.
20100829 00:19:56< VurtualRuler98> I think the cancelled fifth one was supposed to though.
20100829 00:20:02< santippe> there mods that converts the full game
20100829 00:20:15< VurtualRuler98> Tactical shooter civ!
20100829 00:20:18< VurtualRuler98> ...tactical shooter wesnoth!
20100829 00:20:28< santippe> ...
20100829 00:20:39< hylje> civ4 multiplayer indeed has simultaneous turns which allow people to see each others' moves as they go
20100829 00:20:49< VurtualRuler98> ...since when?
20100829 00:20:50< hylje> which leads to interesting problems such as double moves
20100829 00:20:59< VurtualRuler98> ...I never, ever saw that.
20100829 00:21:01< santippe> hylje never see that
20100829 00:21:11< hylje> where a player moves an unit at the end of his turn, then again at the start of the new turn
20100829 00:21:12< santippe> and i've played it many many times...
20100829 00:21:18< VurtualRuler98> Tactical wesnoth: where turning around is just a bit less influental on your AP than reloading in fallout.
20100829 00:21:56< santippe> ever played to mercenaries?
20100829 00:22:02< VurtualRuler98> Oh boy I can walk 2 squares away from this ghoul more because I didn't reload, whoop de doo.
20100829 00:22:17< VurtualRuler98> Then again, having to turn around up to three times instead of two can be a radical change.
20100829 00:22:30< santippe> yes yes right but to do this u need tactical move...
20100829 00:22:48< santippe> and tactical move is for 2-3 max 4 pawn
20100829 00:22:58< VurtualRuler98> But then you can run away for that. Until you find out you get flanked.
20100829 00:23:19< VurtualRuler98> "PRIVATE, WHY AREN'T YOU FACING THE ENEMY?" "I CAN'T RUN AWAY, SO I HAVE NO TIME TO TURN AROUND SAFELY!" "..."
20100829 00:23:37< hylje> http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-145905.html
20100829 00:23:49< hylje> seems civ4 had simultaneous turns in like 2005
20100829 00:23:58< VurtualRuler98> It's not the default for sure
20100829 00:24:18< hylje> nope, because of its problems
20100829 00:24:33< santippe> i said..
20100829 00:25:03< santippe> risk II was a good simultaneous turn game
20100829 00:25:31< VurtualRuler98> So, how does fog+forests work again?
20100829 00:25:42< VurtualRuler98> & time of day
20100829 00:26:26< santippe> but civ5 will be on shop in 21september...
20100829 00:26:40< VurtualRuler98> No it was cancelled, just like those matrix sequels.
20100829 00:27:35< VurtualRuler98> You could totally do stuff like "sneak" options, which at night makes a unit invisible beyond a certain distance. But noo too complex.
20100829 00:27:45< hylje> you're saying that as if hex 1upt grid isn't the best thing to civ since cities
20100829 00:28:30< VurtualRuler98> Hexes are bad.
20100829 00:28:31< santippe> bah.. cities in civ have a lots of bugs..
20100829 00:28:38< santippe> matematically incorrect
20100829 00:28:40< VurtualRuler98> Eight-directional squares for the win bro.
20100829 00:29:10< santippe> hexes are good
20100829 00:29:38< VurtualRuler98> Congradulations, we took out, for no apparent reason, one of your movement vectors.
20100829 00:29:52< hylje> lol no
20100829 00:30:13< VurtualRuler98> You can move diagonally, and either left/right or up/down
20100829 00:30:19< VurtualRuler98> what's orthogonal
20100829 00:30:20< hylje> the 8 directions of square grid is actually 4 short movements and 4 longer movements
20100829 00:30:42< hylje> the 6 directions of hex grid is 6 equally long movements
20100829 00:30:48< santippe> it's impossible to use 8 same-lenght movement
20100829 00:30:56< VurtualRuler98> octagonsss
20100829 00:31:00< santippe> :|
20100829 00:31:01< VurtualRuler98> somehow
20100829 00:31:14< hylje> octagons introduce gaps in the grid
20100829 00:31:18< VurtualRuler98> Okay let's just keep using squares then.
20100829 00:31:40< santippe> better hexes
20100829 00:31:56< VurtualRuler98> I will preform the legendary movement of going up to run away from you
20100829 00:33:48< VurtualRuler98> That is, until we invent 3D environments, then some guy gets lifted off by a spaceship with a stun laser, and we all die.
20100829 00:35:20< hylje> spearman wins destroyer
20100829 00:35:35< VurtualRuler98> Too late, they used a flash rush.
20100829 00:36:14< VurtualRuler98> and the enemy gate is down, so we're stuck
20100829 00:36:34< hylje> excuse me but what the f am i reading
20100829 00:36:46< VurtualRuler98> Me seamlessly babbling about random RTS/strategy references.
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20100829 00:49:04< santippe> ...
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20100829 02:03:40< santippe> mmm
20100829 02:04:06< santippe> where i can find the default map_generation file?
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20100829 05:27:51< elvish_sovereign> anyone have an idea where the problem is here?
20100829 05:27:52< elvish_sovereign> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/QWYjqwKd
20100829 05:28:11< elvish_sovereign> wmllint and my stderr aren't giving me any errors but the even doesnt fire
20100829 05:28:16< elvish_sovereign> event*
20100829 05:30:32< elvish_sovereign> oh wait
20100829 05:32:43< elvish_sovereign> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/aES1jH2C
20100829 05:32:46< elvish_sovereign> updated
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20100829 06:27:18< StealthyCoin> yo
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20100829 08:43:42< Ivanovic> moin
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20100829 08:53:37< Mike1> good Morning!
20100829 08:54:11< Mike1> my Grand Marshal lvl 4 got leadership. Do lvl 3 units benefit from it?
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20100829 08:57:52< Ivanovic> was it a real levelup or amla?
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20100829 08:58:15< Ivanovic> if it was a real levelup (as in: the level number shown on the right is "4"): yes, lvl3 units profit from it
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20100829 09:01:21< Mike1_> Ivanovic: it’s a real level 4. Nice =)
20100829 09:02:00< Ivanovic> Mike1_: and lvl2 units even get +50% boni
20100829 09:02:20< Ivanovic> for lvl1 units it is +75% and lvl0 units get *doubled* damage
20100829 09:02:50< Mike1_> oh, so that’s why my bad units didn’t such /that/ much before :D
20100829 09:02:55< joo> That would make zombies a force to be reckoned with
20100829 09:03:11< Ivanovic> joo: normally you don't have a lvl4 leader with zombies
20100829 09:03:16< Mike1_> or peasants :D
20100829 09:03:22< joo> I know
20100829 09:03:33 * Mike1_ is playing the northern rebirth campaign
20100829 09:03:43< Ivanovic> but yeah, leadership used in "the right way" is a powerful tool
20100829 09:03:50< Ivanovic> but requires lots of good placement
20100829 09:05:18< Mike1_> argh, how I hate my drakes
20100829 09:05:24< Mike1_> they miss all the time
20100829 09:05:44< Ivanovic> drakes are a lovely force of power
20100829 09:05:56< Ivanovic> but require lots of micro management and movement
20100829 09:06:06< Ivanovic> perfect for short hit and run attacks
20100829 09:06:33< Mike1_> their lvl3 leader is lovely, his lvl1 force sucks -_-
20100829 09:07:42< joo> The last time I played drakes against a player who could challenge me, I failed pretty hard. I have a feeling they're the hardest race to learn.
20100829 09:08:05< Ivanovic> yes, they are
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20100829 09:08:46< Ivanovic> you have to lure the enemy to places where his defense is really bad, staning on open plains is often a good way
20100829 09:08:59< Ivanovic> don't defend in forests or the likes
20100829 09:09:10< Ivanovic> villages surrounded by forest are a real problem
20100829 09:09:30< Ivanovic> and you need to move the units wisely
20100829 09:10:03< Mike1_> i’m currently trying to flee to an island ;-)
20100829 09:10:08< Mike1_> in the middle of a river
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20100829 09:10:49< Mike1_> but half my force has been crushed during retreat -_-
20100829 09:12:26< Mike1_> it’s the eastern flank scenario
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20100829 13:24:20< ushiu> hey excuse me for not help with development, but wouldn't be good idea different hurt sounds for boy and girl characters where applicable?
20100829 13:24:42< santippe> ...
20100829 13:26:32< ushiu> are they yet planned?
20100829 13:27:07< santippe> girl and boy.. u mean young man and young woman?
20100829 13:27:08< hylje> i would believe they are added as soon as sufficiently good and sufficiently free sounds of girls getting hurt are provided
20100829 13:28:13< santippe> so there would be different genders too
20100829 13:29:15< ushiu> when playing with elve archers, mages, it would be great
20100829 13:29:58< ushiu> but certainly i have not the girlfriend to provide that *hurt* sounds
20100829 13:31:04< santippe> :D
20100829 13:32:10< ushiu> yeah i found only another one thing i got freaked about wesnoth
20100829 13:33:05< ushiu> when elve civilians of the chaos campaign could be promoted both girl and boy to the three options fighter, archer, hunter
20100829 13:33:22< ushiu> and healer
20100829 13:33:36< hylje> so when a guy civilian upgrades to healer..
20100829 13:33:39< ushiu> when boys can be fighter, archer and hunter and girls can be archer, hunter o healer
20100829 13:33:46< hylje> o
20100829 13:34:22< ushiu> i don't even know who's the responsibility about the chaos campaign but i read something about being official in 1.10
20100829 13:35:53< ushiu> i guess i had to search a wesnoth wishlist and posted there but i didn't realize
20100829 13:36:14< ushiu> i'll check that out later
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20100829 16:38:10< e_s-iOS> zookeeper: is this WML bogus? http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/HvBx3Skz 
20100829 16:38:39< e_s-iOS> I'm not at the computer now, so I can't test it.
20100829 16:39:20< e_s-iOS> I'm most unsure about the highlighted line. 
20100829 16:39:56< e_s-iOS> This is in an [event] name=attacker hits, btw
20100829 16:40:11< zookeeper> e_s-iOS, yes, it is
20100829 16:40:18< e_s-iOS> argh
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20100829 16:40:34< zookeeper> give me a minute
20100829 16:40:41< e_s-iOS> okay.
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20100829 16:41:42< zookeeper> what you want is apply_to=attack   range=melee   increase_damage=-1 (assuming you want to decrease all melee attacks)
20100829 16:42:14< zookeeper> err
20100829 16:42:16< e_s-iOS> what if I only wanted to edit the attacked unit's stats
20100829 16:42:20< e_s-iOS> .
20100829 16:42:25< zookeeper> and of course you need the [effect] inside an [object] too, it's not an action tag
20100829 16:42:39< e_s-iOS> right, I forgot that.
20100829 16:43:21< zookeeper> is the attacked unit the secondary unit?
20100829 16:43:27< e_s-iOS> yeah
20100829 16:43:46< e_s-iOS> that's why I thought I could use second_unit.attack :P
20100829 16:43:49< zookeeper> well, this is editing of its stats, so i don't know what you're asking..
20100829 16:44:08< e_s-iOS> Well, basically
20100829 16:44:27< e_s-iOS> The primary unit attacks the secondary unit, and hits
20100829 16:44:47< e_s-iOS> the primary unit has a special, which is filtered to trigger this event.
20100829 16:45:09< e_s-iOS> the primary unit then can, in this, decrese the melee attack of the secondary unit.
20100829 16:45:52< zookeeper> ok
20100829 16:46:21< e_s-iOS> So that's why I thought I could use second_unit.attack
20100829 16:46:22< zookeeper> so what do you need to know?
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20100829 16:46:47< zookeeper> well, don't think, just check
20100829 16:46:58< e_s-iOS> How to filter the apply_to part to target the second unit.
20100829 16:47:00< zookeeper> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EffectWML - "apply_to can take the following values: "
20100829 16:47:11< e_s-iOS> I know that part
20100829 16:47:27< e_s-iOS> but to have it target the secondary unit rather than the primary unit itself...
20100829 16:47:35< zookeeper> well you were trying to give it value that's not listed there
20100829 16:47:49< zookeeper> that should always ring a bell ;)
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20100829 16:47:55< e_s-iOS> mmhm.
20100829 16:48:16< zookeeper> anyway, in case it's still unclear, use an [object]
20100829 16:48:39< e_s-iOS> I know how to modify a unit's stats
20100829 16:48:43< zookeeper> [object] can take a [filter] so do so and put x,y=$x2,$y2 there
20100829 16:48:51< e_s-iOS> OH!
20100829 16:48:55< e_s-iOS> I get it.
20100829 16:49:12< e_s-iOS> I forgot about $x2,$y2
20100829 16:49:18< e_s-iOS> Thanks. :)
20100829 16:49:40< zookeeper> well you could have just as well used x,y=$second_unit.x,$second_unit.y or id=$second_unit.id
20100829 16:49:52< e_s-iOS> true
20100829 16:50:02< e_s-iOS> but I guess I just still suck at WML
20100829 16:50:04< zookeeper> or possibly even find_in=second_unit, but i still haven't checked if that actually works or not
20100829 16:50:34< zookeeper> the thing i don't get is why everyone and their grandma tries to use [effect] as an action tag
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20100829 16:50:43< e_s-iOS> well, thanks!
20100829 16:50:57< e_s-iOS> because we're all not as smart as you :)
20100829 16:51:14< e_s-iOS> Lemme me to try that.
20100829 16:51:19< e_s-iOS> See you later!
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20100829 16:51:39< zookeeper> well i was thinking more like if it's presented in a particularly unclear manner in the wiki...
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20100829 18:38:31< elvish_sovereign> crimson_penguin: where do you place the sdl-dev package on mac?
20100829 18:38:46< elvish_sovereign> I'm read the docs through and through but I still don't get it.
20100829 18:38:50< crimson_penguin> er, what?
20100829 18:38:58< crimson_penguin> what are you trying to do?
20100829 18:39:06< crimson_penguin> oh, you're trying to build from the command line?
20100829 18:39:07< elvish_sovereign> in stall the SDL-devel packages
20100829 18:39:19< elvish_sovereign> yeah
20100829 18:39:41< elvish_sovereign> yeah, let's try again from xcode
20100829 18:39:46< elvish_sovereign> maybe
20100829 18:39:50< crimson_penguin> did you try my new Xcode project?
20100829 18:39:56< elvish_sovereign> I'll see
20100829 18:40:08< elvish_sovereign> I have to download the MacCompileStuff from the forums
20100829 18:40:09< elvish_sovereign> ?
20100829 18:40:43< crimson_penguin> just look in projectfiles/Xcode in svn; I even made a readme
20100829 18:41:58< elvish_sovereign> oh cool
20100829 18:42:41-!- DreadKnight [~DreadKnig@79.117.32.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20100829 18:44:56< elvish_sovereign> making sure
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20100829 18:45:19< elvish_sovereign> Headers and lib go into wesnoth/projectfiles/Xcode, right?
20100829 18:46:32< elvish_sovereign> I'll need Tiger to build a release copy?
20100829 18:46:40< elvish_sovereign> crimson_penguin: ^
20100829 18:47:09< crimson_penguin> you'll need the Tiger SDK, yes, not the OS itself
20100829 18:47:15< crimson_penguin> and yes
20100829 18:47:29< elvish_sovereign> where can I get that, developer.apple.com?
20100829 18:48:16< elvish_sovereign> or should I just build in the debug configuration?
20100829 18:50:57< crimson_penguin> just build in debug
20100829 18:51:28< elvish_sovereign> okay
20100829 18:52:48< elvish_sovereign> crimson_penguin: just wondering, how long will this approx. take?
20100829 18:53:10< crimson_penguin> what kinda computer do you have? takes 20-30 minutes on my computer, in release mode
20100829 18:53:21< elvish_sovereign> 2007 MBP
20100829 18:53:21< crimson_penguin> should take half that in debug, since it's compiling half as much
20100829 18:53:25< crimson_penguin> ok, same here
20100829 18:53:29< crimson_penguin> I've got 2.4Ghz
20100829 18:53:39< elvish_sovereign> same
20100829 18:53:45< crimson_penguin> note that it takes a lot of ram, and if you run out, it'll take a LOT longer
20100829 18:54:01< elvish_sovereign> I'm not running anything else except XCode and Colloquy
20100829 18:54:10< elvish_sovereign> So I'm guessing appox. 10-15 mins?
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20100829 18:55:39< crimson_penguin> Should be, yeah
20100829 18:55:46< elvish_sovereign> cool.
20100829 18:55:50< elvish_sovereign> thanks a lot!
20100829 18:55:57< crimson_penguin> no problem
20100829 18:57:42< crimson_penguin> in latest svn there are 2 files that have been deleted but that are still in the project, you'll need to delete those from the project (uploadlog.cpp/hpp); they're in src, and they'll be red
20100829 18:58:14< crimson_penguin> (I'll commit the change in a minute
20100829 18:58:16< crimson_penguin> )
20100829 18:59:54< crimson_penguin> done
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20100829 19:35:30< elvish_sovereign> crimson_penguin: I went to eat lunch and came back to see this error: Command /Developer/usr/bin/gcc-4.2 failed with exit code 1
20100829 19:35:43< crimson_penguin> elvish_sovereign: and did you read what I just said? :)
20100829 19:35:43< elvish_sovereign> is it because of the red files?
20100829 19:35:54< elvish_sovereign> I was gone, so
20100829 19:36:51< crimson_penguin> yup
20100829 19:37:57< elvish_sovereign> okay doing it again
20100829 19:39:05< crimson_penguin> it should just skip to linking once you delete the files, if there were no other errors
20100829 19:39:28< elvish_sovereign> it's on building
20100829 19:39:34< elvish_sovereign> right, now it's linking
20100829 19:39:38< elvish_sovereign> coll
20100829 19:39:41< elvish_sovereign> cool*
20100829 19:40:09< elvish_sovereign> OMG IT WORKED!!
20100829 19:40:17< elvish_sovereign> IT REALLY REALLY WORKED!
20100829 19:40:24< elvish_sovereign> yayy
20100829 19:40:32< elvish_sovereign> thanks so much, crimson_penguin :)
20100829 19:40:44< crimson_penguin> no problem
20100829 19:41:02< elvish_sovereign> it's looks funky, but that's because it was built in debug mode, right?
20100829 19:41:22< crimson_penguin> funky how? do you mean the titlescreen that people were just talking about in #wesnoth-dev?
20100829 19:41:43< crimson_penguin> in any case, it shouldn't look any different in debug mode
20100829 19:41:50< elvish_sovereign> weird
20100829 19:42:00< elvish_sovereign> right
20100829 19:42:05< elvish_sovereign> the titlescreen
20100829 19:42:26< elvish_sovereign> okay I see
20100829 19:42:34< crimson_penguin> the differences in debug are just: faster compiling/slower performance, and it won't be as compatible with other computers (no PPC, and only whatever OS you're on will work)
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20100829 20:16:08< Gambit> hmm they're advertising Win7 by saying germans have no humor
20100829 20:16:11< Gambit> Interesting.
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20100829 22:56:16< Gambit> Finally. Maternity armor: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=31406
20100829 22:56:33< Gambit> It's about time expectant mothers got the protection they need!
20100829 22:57:45< hylje> flat shield fat human
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20100829 23:17:16< elvish_sovereign> zookeeper: do you have time atm?
20100829 23:17:46< zookeeper> elvish_sovereign, a little, sure
20100829 23:17:47< elvish_sovereign> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/sXrB30m5
20100829 23:17:59< elvish_sovereign> I can't figure out what's wrong
20100829 23:18:13< elvish_sovereign> wmllint and my stderr aren't giving me any errors of sort
20100829 23:18:19< elvish_sovereign> the event just doesnt fire
20100829 23:18:53< zookeeper> well, are you calling that macro anywhere?
20100829 23:19:03< elvish_sovereign> yes
20100829 23:19:09< zookeeper> inside what tag?
20100829 23:19:16< elvish_sovereign> the scenario tag
20100829 23:19:19< zookeeper> okay
20100829 23:19:33< zookeeper> and you're sure the event itself never fires?
20100829 23:19:39< elvish_sovereign> yes
20100829 23:19:50< elvish_sovereign> :inspect doesn't tell me anything either
20100829 23:20:18< zookeeper> ok, so what does the macro call look like?
20100829 23:20:34< elvish_sovereign> {SAVE_SURVIVORS 23 14} for example
20100829 23:20:45< elvish_sovereign> http://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wesnoth-umc-dev/branches/1.8/Promised_Land/scenarios/01_A_Hasty_Escape.cfg
20100829 23:20:50< elvish_sovereign> that's the full scenario
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20100829 23:21:18< elvish_sovereign> scroll down and you'll see a huge list of {SAVE_SURVIVORS X Y}
20100829 23:22:02< elvish_sovereign> the strange thing is there is no sort of error whatsoever
20100829 23:22:13< elvish_sovereign> Thus I can't debug it and nor can I figure out the error
20100829 23:22:17< zookeeper> ok, and you include the macro definition before that scenario?
20100829 23:22:38< elvish_sovereign> in a separate utils file
20100829 23:23:00< zookeeper> and you've looked in your stderr for clues? no mention of an unrecognized macro or anything?
20100829 23:23:07< elvish_sovereign> nothing
20100829 23:23:17< elvish_sovereign> doesn't give any errors of the sort
20100829 23:23:22< elvish_sovereign> the campaign loads fine
20100829 23:23:24< zookeeper> uh
20100829 23:27:02< zookeeper> well, i'm sure you're doing _something_ wrong, just not sure what ;)
20100829 23:27:08< elvish_sovereign> right
20100829 23:27:49< elvish_sovereign> possibly {GENERIC_UNIT 1 ($survivor_unit) ({X}) ({Y})}
20100829 23:27:51< elvish_sovereign> ?
20100829 23:28:26< zookeeper> if that wouldn't work then it would either give you an error on startup or it'd just not create the unit
20100829 23:28:33< zookeeper> neither of which would make the whole event not trigger
20100829 23:29:51< zookeeper> in any case, the way you're calling SAVE_SURVIVORS several dozen times makes for some very bloaty WML
20100829 23:30:13< elvish_sovereign> :)
20100829 23:30:41< elvish_sovereign> Well it's a lot of moveto events in a row
20100829 23:30:55< zookeeper> yeah
20100829 23:31:09< zookeeper> i can write you an optimized example if you want
20100829 23:31:23< elvish_sovereign> optimized meaning...
20100829 23:32:01< zookeeper> shorter and more effective
20100829 23:32:06< elvish_sovereign> cool
20100829 23:32:12< elvish_sovereign> that'd be awesome, thanks :)
20100829 23:34:51< zookeeper> ok, the way i like to do stuff like that is this: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/Ps0a2gbJ
20100829 23:35:11< zookeeper> (it only requires one moveto event instead of fifty)
20100829 23:35:24< elvish_sovereign> oh cool
20100829 23:35:29< elvish_sovereign> thanks a lot!
20100829 23:35:35< elvish_sovereign> I'll play with it :)
20100829 23:36:00< zookeeper> if you got more questions then ask, but do so before i go to bed in a moment :p
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20100829 23:50:16< elvish_sovereign> zookeeper: still doesn't fire...
20100829 23:50:33< elvish_sovereign> I guess it's something wrong the actual unit definition
20100829 23:51:29< zookeeper> the only way you check if the event is really firing at all is to put something like {DEBUG_MSG "foo"} in the [event], outside of all [if]s
20100829 23:51:46< elvish_sovereign> okay
20100829 23:52:09< zookeeper> if the event fires but nothing inside your [if] gets done, then it's a problem with your [if] and not the event itself
20100829 23:52:16< elvish_sovereign> okay
20100829 23:53:20< elvish_sovereign> okay, it's a problem with the [if]
20100829 23:54:47< zookeeper> ok, then next you can just put DEBUG_MSGs inside your [then] and the contents of your REPEAT call to find out if your [if] condition is bad or if your REPEAT just isn't working
20100829 23:55:04< elvish_sovereign> it's REPEAT
20100829 23:55:10< elvish_sovereign> I wrote
20100829 23:55:28< elvish_sovereign> {DEBUG_MSG "foo $unit_number"}
20100829 23:55:35< elvish_sovereign> and it gave me just "foo"
20100829 23:57:54< elvish_sovereign> wait, it might be {RANDOM}
20100829 23:58:23< elvish_sovereign> because I have another macro definition, {RANDOM_ORC} that uses {RANDOM} and the such.
20100829 23:58:35< elvish_sovereign> and it doesn't fire either
20100829 23:59:30< zookeeper> well, unless you actually have #define RANDOM somewhere yourself, RANDOM should work just fine
20100829 23:59:44< elvish_sovereign> hm..
--- Log closed Mon Aug 30 00:00:51 2010