--- Log opened Thu Sep 02 00:00:17 2010
20100902 00:06:57< zookeeper> Crab_, uh oh, that sounds interesting :P
20100902 00:07:27< Crab_> (I think that, previously, it worked because of a different bug was masking this one out) 
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20100902 00:11:43< zookeeper> cool
20100902 00:12:03< Crab_> this one looks similar, https://gna.org/bugs/?16247
20100902 00:13:06< zookeeper> Crab_, right, that's another very AI-dependant scenario, although it seemed to work ok'ish for me when i tried it recently in trunk
20100902 00:16:13< zookeeper> if you want to rewrite the AI's for that scenario, then the dwarves/elves should try to simply rush the player pretty recklessly no matter what, and the bats should just generally be pests (probably meaning preferring to attack a lot of units instead of ganging up on anyone) while the dragon itself should try to attack anyone but not get itself trapped
20100902 00:16:56< Crab_> no, for now I just want for the git to do the rebase so I can commit the fix to that bug...
20100902 00:17:05< zookeeper> ok, that's fine too ;)
20100902 00:17:29< Crab_> (I'll backport it to 1.8, too, a bit later.)
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20100902 00:19:41< CIA-35> crab * r46187 /trunk/ (changelog src/ai/testing/ca_testing_move_to_targets.cpp): fix bug #16585 and possibly #16247: made AI move in targeting phase even if for some of the 'best' units moves to targets are impossible
20100902 00:19:46< Crab_> ^ ok, thanks for showing me that bug
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20100902 00:27:26< CIA-35> crab * r46188 /branches/1.8/ (changelog src/ai/testing/ca_testing_move_to_targets.cpp): Fix bug #16585 and possibly #16247: made AI move in targeting phase even if for some of the 'best' units moves to targets are impossible.Backport of r46187 from trunk.
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20100902 01:59:18< AI0867> src/ai/testing/ca_testing_move_to_targets.cpp:365: error: ‘struct std::pair<map_location, unit>’ has no member named ‘get_location’ <-- someone broke the tests
20100902 01:59:42< AI0867> on 1.8 even
20100902 02:00:23< AI0867> er, that's not even the tests, it's a testing AI
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20100902 02:04:52< gabba> bonjour
20100902 02:06:01< Espreon> Ic grete þe.
20100902 02:06:51< gabba> hi Espreon
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20100902 02:20:10< fendrin> eleazzaar: ping
20100902 02:21:42< CIA-35> espreon * r46189 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (recall.cpp recall.hpp utility.cpp utility.hpp): Ran umcpropfix.
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20100902 02:24:17< CIA-35> espreon * r46190 /trunk/data/core/images/portraits/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Ran umcpropfix.
20100902 02:25:09< CIA-35> espreon * r46191 /trunk/data/core/images/units/undead/ (9 files): Ran umcpropfix.
20100902 02:26:03< CIA-35> espreon * r46192 /trunk/data/core/images/units/ (100 files in 7 dirs): Ran umcpropfix.
20100902 02:26:28< Espreon> Uh... OK... that was weird.
20100902 02:27:11< Espreon> Ah, I screwed up the command.
20100902 02:27:17< Espreon> No harm done.
20100902 02:27:52< CIA-35> espreon * r46193 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/village/human-city-tile.png: Ran umcpropfix.
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20100902 02:28:38< CIA-35> espreon * r46194 /trunk/data/core/units/undead/Corpse_Ghast.cfg: Ran umcpropfix.
20100902 02:34:43< loonycyborg> AI0867: Looks like a backporting accident. It was introduced by r46188
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20100902 03:19:08< CIA-35> espreon * r46195 /trunk/images/ (151 files in 5 dirs): Ran umcpropfix.
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20100902 04:29:12< eleazzaar> fendrin: i'm here...
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20100902 05:58:37-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 148 bugs, 296 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100902 06:01:55-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 148 bugs, 296 feature requests, 14 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100902 06:01:55-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] [Thu Sep  2 05:58:39 2010]
20100902 06:01:55[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20100902 06:01:55[ ABCD        ] [ Bocom          ] [ erl     ] [ Greywhind] [ koan          ] [ Tigge   ] 
20100902 06:01:55[ Aethaeryn   ] [ Carneus        ] [ Espreon ] [ ilor_    ] [ lobby         ] [ Upthorn ] 
20100902 06:01:55[ AI0867      ] [ chris|         ] [ esr     ] [ Ingmar   ] [ nguyenatto    ] [ Vetinari] 
20100902 06:01:55[ ancestral   ] [ CIA-35         ] [ ettin   ] [ isaac    ] [ Rhonda        ] [ Vorpal  ] 
20100902 06:01:55[ apoi        ] [ crimson_penguin] [ FAAB    ] [ Ivanovic ] [ shadowm_laptop] [ wesbot  ] 
20100902 06:01:55[ Appleman1234] [ Daltx          ] [ fangism ] [ iwaim    ] [ shadowmaster  ] 
20100902 06:01:55[ astraljava  ] [ eleazzaar      ] [ fendrin ] [ joo|sleep] [ shikadibot    ] 
20100902 06:01:55[ Blueblaze   ] [ elias          ] [ fkhodkov] [ knotwork ] [ Smar          ] 
20100902 06:01:55-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 45 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 45 normal]
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20100902 06:02:01-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20100902 07:33:13< zookeeper> terrain graphics are randomized differently in-game and in the editor.
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20100902 07:33:54< shadowmaster> known
20100902 07:34:18< shadowmaster> alink or mordante once provided a reason for that but I forgot the specifics.
20100902 07:34:50< zookeeper> hmh? i was pretty sure that used to work right
20100902 07:34:59< zookeeper> i'm testing on 1.8 atm to check...
20100902 07:35:12< shadowmaster> I remember seeing that in 1.5.x and 1.7.x
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20100902 07:35:38 * shadowmaster isn't a SP player in Stable for some reason...?
20100902 07:36:34< zookeeper> okay, they're randomized differently in 1.8.4 too :|
20100902 07:38:00< shadowmaster> I suppose the desync will become an issue with graphics randomization becoming more of an aesthetical factor as our terrains improve...
20100902 07:38:24< zookeeper> yeah
20100902 07:38:37< zookeeper> not that it isn't annoying already with mountains
20100902 07:39:16< shadowmaster> trying to create tall mountain effects by combining specific variations of Mm with Mm^Xm was quite frustrating for me.
20100902 07:40:31< zookeeper> any idea what i should be grepping for in my irc logs to find the provided reason?
20100902 07:41:50< shadowmaster> no idea. You'd need to grep through 2008 and 2009 probably, too.
20100902 07:42:28< zookeeper> well that goes without saying ;)
20100902 07:42:28< shadowmaster> you could just file a new bug and explain why it's going to be an actual issue now.
20100902 07:42:55< shadowmaster> the worst that can happen is someone marking it as "won't fix" :P
20100902 07:45:14< zookeeper> true enough
20100902 07:45:19< shadowmaster> argh. These posts make my eyes twitch.
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20100902 08:16:27< zookeeper> ok, filed a bug for it
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20100902 08:51:16< zookeeper> silene, comparing 1.9.0 AI performance to trunk when feral is _not_ used, i see a noticeable increase in the time the AI uses for a turn, about 20-80% longer i guess. however, i don't really know if there's an inherent performance difference in the builds.
20100902 08:52:12< zookeeper> and that only seems to hold true for turns on which the AI is within range of enemies
20100902 09:00:51< zookeeper> so, what do you think should be done next?
20100902 09:02:18< zookeeper> if you think that the [defense] tag is too complicated to support properly atm, maybe another more hard-coded feature would do the job for now; basically all i really need is to be able to make a unit always have X% defense on villages.
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20100902 09:04:19< silene> zookeeper: what would the hardcoding look like, from a wml point of view?
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20100902 09:08:31< zookeeper> silene, not sure. maybe just a [feral] trait tag with value=60?
20100902 09:08:58< zookeeper> err, i mean [trait] with id=feral, sort of like how the effects of the fearless trait is hardcoded
20100902 09:10:14< zookeeper> silene, the other option i thought about was allowing some kind of exceptions to be written in [movetype]
20100902 09:10:54< silene> i would prefer the latter option, it would avoid to much of a hardcoding
20100902 09:10:55< zookeeper> like... [movetype] [defense] [exception] terrain=*^V* defense=40 or something
20100902 09:12:37< zookeeper> but maybe that'd lead to some performance loss too since the exceptions would need to be checked all the time?
20100902 09:12:57< silene> seems good (i'm not too sure about "exception" itself, but we can always change it later), i will take a look at it this week-end
20100902 09:12:59< zookeeper> unless you cache them or something. i don't know, i'm sure you're more qualified to assess that ;)
20100902 09:13:15< silene> no, i don't think there won't be any performance loss, defenses are cached
20100902 09:13:25< silene> will*
20100902 09:13:38< zookeeper> ok, great, i'm looking forward to that
20100902 09:13:48< zookeeper> (maybe [override] instead of [exception])
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20100902 09:41:38< zookeeper> anyone know why the giant rat's AMLA is +2hp +25%xp no full heal instead of the normal one?
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20100902 10:26:20< Ivanovic> moin
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20100902 10:55:05< Crab_> AI0867, loonycyborg: yes, sorry, I've broken 1.8 a bit. Unfortunately, cannot commit a fix at the moment. It should be   ` return std::pair<map_location,map_location>(u->first,u->first);  ` instead of  `  return std::make_pair(u->get_location(), u->get_location());  ` around line 362 in 1.8, as unit map interface has changed since then.
20100902 10:55:36< Crab_> ( or `  return std::make_pair(u->first, u->first); ` , that is )
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20100902 11:27:34< zookeeper> huge spam on the forums
20100902 11:29:08< Ivanovic> banned the user
20100902 11:29:29< Ivanovic> that is "linkreplica"
20100902 11:29:34< Ivanovic> feel free to remove all its posts
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20100902 11:30:47< zookeeper> yeah, they're all gone now
20100902 11:30:58< Ivanovic> good
20100902 11:33:24< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: re http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=453912#p453912 : IIRC gambit got his commit access simply because he will maintain dead water
20100902 11:41:22< CIA-35> fendrin * r46206 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/maps/ (6 files): LoW: Map updates.
20100902 11:43:39< CIA-35> fendrin * r46207 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/low-macros.cfg: LoW macros: Updates on the comments.
20100902 11:52:43< CIA-35> fendrin * r46208 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 
20100902 11:52:43< CIA-35> LoW: Removed an obsolete image for haldric the second.
20100902 11:52:43< CIA-35> Undefined HARD at the end of the campaign.
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20100902 11:55:59< CIA-35> fendrin * r46209 /trunk/changelog: Updated the changelog with LoW related stuff.
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20100902 12:00:39< CIA-35> fendrin * r46210 /trunk/data/ (_main.cfg multiplayer/_main.cfg): 
20100902 12:00:39< CIA-35> Reverted the exclusion of scenarios if multiplayer is loaded.
20100902 12:00:39< CIA-35> This had lead to the campaign list being empty when a player loads multiplayer and enters the campaign menu again.
20100902 12:02:22< fendrin> eleazzaar: I have problems loading some of LoW's maps. There are unrecognized terrains reported in trunk.
20100902 12:02:55< zookeeper> how is he supposed to know what's wrong?
20100902 12:03:20< fendrin> zookeeper: Are you talking to me?
20100902 12:04:06< Ivanovic> fendrin: the changelog is a real mess!
20100902 12:04:09< zookeeper> yes
20100902 12:04:11< Ivanovic> don't use tabs in there, use spaces
20100902 12:04:21< Ivanovic> and newlines after 80 chars
20100902 12:04:25< Ivanovic> trying to fix the mess now
20100902 12:04:26< zookeeper> but then again i remembered that LoW had custom terrains and looks like it doesn't after all
20100902 12:05:16< zookeeper> anyway, i presume stderr tells which terrain code it doesn't recognize...
20100902 12:08:03< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46211 /trunk/changelog: 
20100902 12:08:04< CIA-35> try to fix the changelog:
20100902 12:08:04< CIA-35> 1) no more than 80 chars per line
20100902 12:08:04< CIA-35> 2) don't use tabs, use spaces
20100902 12:08:13< Ivanovic> fendrin: can you please check if the changelog is still working as intended after my commit?
20100902 12:08:38< Ivanovic> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/changelog
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20100902 12:18:33< fendrin> Ivanovic: I jumped on the changelog repair right after you mentioned it's brokenness. Please tell me if you fix something earlier to avoid duplicate work.
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20100902 12:38:58< fendrin> hi eleazzaar
20100902 12:39:36< fendrin> Some of LoW's maps don't load any longer because of terrain trouble.
20100902 12:40:25< fendrin> eleazzaar: "User message: Could not get image for terrain: Gs^Vh."
20100902 12:44:12< CIA-35> fendrin * r46212 /trunk/changelog: Added another line to the changelog.
20100902 12:44:24< fendrin> Ivanovic: The LoW part of the changelog is fine. But I don't understand the line with "Warrior" in it.
20100902 12:44:45< fendrin> Ivanovic: "Warrior se"
20100902 12:45:26< Soliton> zookeeper: you could try "svn blame" on the giant rat cfg. if there is no reason given seems like you could just make it conform.
20100902 12:46:05< fendrin> zookeeper: I guess "Gs^Vh" is a human village that may have an unusual base layer.
20100902 12:46:41< zookeeper> Gs is the default base for ^Vh
20100902 12:53:25< fendrin> zookeeper: Well, then something is broken in trunk and I guessed eleazzaar was the first person to ask about.
20100902 12:59:20< Ivanovic> fendrin: i guess that "warrior se" stands for 'southeast"
20100902 12:59:40< fendrin> Ivanovic: Ah, that makes sense.
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20100902 13:17:57< alink> zookeeper: your terrain variation randomization problem probably comes from the fact that we use rule index for the random seed (so different rules use different randomization).
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20100902 13:19:11< alink> The editor load more rules and in a special order to get the all campaign-specific ones accessible, so that probably shift things
20100902 13:20:31< alink> I see several way to fix that, and one is linked to a possible synchronized terrain anim feature, so I will look into that
20100902 13:22:27< alink> another quick fix would be to use the index of *applied* rules which should work and be a one-liner. I will try that later today
20100902 13:22:44< alink> since that will make my anim problem simpler too
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20100902 13:25:38< alink> btw add-ons and level specific terrain rules also shift things, that could also explains the editor problem.
20100902 13:53:40< zookeeper> alink, ok, cool
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20100902 14:05:03< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46213 /trunk/po/ (8 files in 6 dirs): updated Indonesian and Vietnamese translation
20100902 14:05:06< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46214 /branches/1.8/po/ (5 files in 4 dirs): updated Indonesian and Vietnamese translation
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20100902 15:33:00< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen mordante
20100902 15:33:00< wesbot> Ivanovic: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 1d 16h ago.  1d 16h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
20100902 15:33:03< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen boucman
20100902 15:33:03< wesbot> Ivanovic: The person with the nick boucman last spoke 16h 37m ago.  15h 53m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100902 15:33:22< Ivanovic> boucman, mordante: got to talk about the mentor summit, are you fine with fendrin and crab_ going?
20100902 15:39:05< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46215 /trunk/po/wesnoth-ei/vi.po: updated Vietnamese translation
20100902 15:39:06< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46216 /branches/1.8/po/wesnoth-ei/vi.po: updated Vietnamese translation
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20100902 16:19:52< eleazzaar> fendrin: Gs^Vh works fine on the more recent build i've managed to make (from a couple days after the release
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20100902 16:23:08< eleazzaar> I don't have an explaination
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20100902 16:24:50< Soliton> what error do you get with new builds?
20100902 16:25:16< CIA-35> eleazar * r46217 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/village/human-city-snow.png: better roof for a snowy human village by doofus.
20100902 16:28:39< eleazzaar> Soliton: i don't remember--- i'll try again
20100902 16:31:26< eleazzaar> fendrin: everything looks in order in terrain.cfg
20100902 16:36:14< fendrin> eleazzaar: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/69VZESgQ
20100902 16:36:57< eleazzaar> "void" has been moved
20100902 16:37:05< eleazzaar> to void/void.png
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20100902 16:39:35< eleazzaar> fendrin:  i assume this level make some special use of the void tile?
20100902 16:40:07< alink> mmh there is some hardcoding of "void" as default for dummy stuff
20100902 16:40:07< fendrin> eleazzaar: No, the void is not the problem.
20100902 16:40:20< fendrin> eleazzaar: It is the unknown terrain type that cuases wesnoth to quit.
20100902 16:41:05< eleazzaar> i can't explain it unless LoW make a special and broken definition for Gs^Hv
20100902 16:42:03< eleazzaar> fendrin: has anyone else reproduced this?
20100902 16:42:11< fendrin> no not now
20100902 16:42:54< alink> I think both error are linked Gs^Vh doesn't define a minimap_image, which means that it uses the hardcoded default "void"
20100902 16:43:21< fendrin> alink: And the hardcoded default has moved on disk but not in the hardcode?
20100902 16:43:35< alink> fendrin: try editting the "void" to "void/void" at the begining of terrain.cfg
20100902 16:43:45< alink> *terrain.cpp
20100902 16:44:27< eleazzaar> i've asked before but gotten no answer--- is there something i should do when i move/rename terrain image files?
20100902 16:45:08< eleazzaar> presumably UMCs and some special mainline WML calls for specific terrain image paths
20100902 16:45:48< alink> eleazzaar: usually no, we should not hardcode stuff, but you could grep the source to check if the filename is in it
20100902 16:46:07< alink> in this case, I searched "void" (with the quotes)
20100902 16:46:20< fendrin> alink: void/void is already there.
20100902 16:46:53< eleazzaar> greping is not in my bag of tricks
20100902 16:47:53< alink> fendrin: ? in terrain.cpp ? (my trunk is 1 day old)
20100902 16:49:01< alink> eleazzaar: grep or "search a word in a directory" is often usefull, but I don't know how to do it with Mac
20100902 16:50:04< alink> fendrin: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/terrain.cpp?rev=46186&dir_pagestart=250&view=markup
20100902 16:50:12< alink> ^current trunk
20100902 16:50:41< alink> see first lines
20100902 16:50:50< fendrin> alink: you pointed me to terrain.*cfg* not terrain.cpp
20100902 16:51:00< alink> [16:44:36] <alink> *terrain.cpp
20100902 16:51:14< alink> but yes I did ;-p
20100902 16:51:29< fendrin> Oh, sorry. Didn't catch the correction line.
20100902 16:52:43< alink> if it fix your error, we should probably use game_config keys for this
20100902 16:53:46< alink> something like use "" in ctor, and when rendering, if it's empty use the game_config key
20100902 16:56:11< alink> fendrin: I will clean that, since I see that I also need to clean the use of the hardcoded missing_image
20100902 16:57:29< fendrin> alink: Okay, I am compiling right now.
20100902 16:58:36< alink> fendrin: thanks
20100902 16:58:41< fendrin> alink: The replacement didn't fix the problem here. 
20100902 16:58:52< alink> oh :-/
20100902 16:59:02< alink> and the output is the same ?
20100902 16:59:15< fendrin> alink: Right, no change there.
20100902 16:59:23< eleazzaar> alink i'd like to use something transparent for the missing image, since the current one obliterates everything beneath
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20100902 17:00:19< alink> eleazzaar: it must be opaque, if not, it will cause redraw glitches for missing terrrain
20100902 17:00:32< _jbx_> eleazzaar: I used the new snow keeps last night, and the units seem to be sunken into the castle, unlike the other castle terrains where they stand on top of it
20100902 17:00:40< alink> fendrin: still :  could not open image 'terrain/void.png' ?
20100902 17:00:40< zookeeper> alink, worse glitches than a yellow peasant sign? :P
20100902 17:00:59< fendrin> alink: 20100902 16:57:50 error display: could not open image 'terrain/void.png'
20100902 17:01:36< alink> "hall of mirror" glitches, but agreed maybe not worse. Will depend of the transparency and how scrolling affect it
20100902 17:01:54< eleazzaar> alink: yeah i know the glitch you refer to
20100902 17:03:04< eleazzaar> but if the missing image isn't a fully opaque hex, the "digger" really hurts usability and obscures what's going on
20100902 17:03:07< alink> what I can do is parse the filename and do something different is I find "terrain" or "units"
20100902 17:03:24< alink> or just not finding "terrain"
20100902 17:03:33< alink> s/is/if
20100902 17:04:56< alink> eleazzaar: it was meant to be very visible, to spot missing frames and things like that
20100902 17:05:03< zookeeper> the point of the image is to make it painfully obvious that you screwed up some image path somewhere, so i don't see a problem if it glitches
20100902 17:05:24< zookeeper> for that reason i think the text "image not found" should appear on the image itself, too...
20100902 17:05:56< eleazzaar> i have a big magenta "?" on the image
20100902 17:06:00< zookeeper> oh, actually i once made such an image
20100902 17:06:34< zookeeper> http://imagebin.org/112399
20100902 17:07:33< Ivanovic> zookeeper: that one looks cool!
20100902 17:08:06< CIA-35> eleazar * r46218 /trunk/images/misc/missing-image-trans.png: alternate missing image image with transparency.
20100902 17:08:09< eleazzaar> upload of my version already in processs....
20100902 17:08:25< alink> zookeeper: maybe bigger fonts and brighter background  color? it also replace some small UI elements, grey may not be visible enough
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20100902 17:08:37< eleazzaar> anyway i need breakfast
20100902 17:08:49< alink> for example for minimap tiles
20100902 17:09:04< alink> zookeeper: but that's indeed have a more clear meaning
20100902 17:10:33< alink> and then the transparent version could use the text only, whitout background
20100902 17:11:38-!- mcz [~mcz@aaf168.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20100902 17:11:52< alink> if there was more space, a little ":debug" to indicate that you see it only in debug mode, since some users didn't catch that
20100902 17:12:04< alink> (I think)
20100902 17:17:38< alink> fendrin: I don't see any other use of "void" in trunk, could you paste me the scenario number causing it. (I go afk soon)
20100902 17:20:22< fendrin> alink: ./wesnoth -e data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/maps/14_Human_Alliance.map 
20100902 17:27:32< fendrin> alink: It is working ingame, it's only the editor that is refusing to load.
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20100902 17:43:33< alink> fendrin: thanks. I will look into it
20100902 18:05:34< alink> fendrin: works for me, are you sure that your  "./wesnoth -e data/camp..." command load the trunk map ?
20100902 18:06:17< alink> or use trunk data. I use "src/wesnoth . -e " here
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20100902 18:44:06< fendrin> alink: hmmm, the . doesn't make a difference.
20100902 18:44:28< fendrin> alink: I will go and fetch a new checkout maybe something with my svn is broken.
20100902 18:45:19< AI0867> crab: the problem was easy to find, and I already had the fix ready, but I was too tired to actually commit it before I went to sleep -_-'
20100902 18:46:53< CIA-35> ai0867 * r46219 /branches/1.8/src/ai/testing/ca_testing_move_to_targets.cpp: Fix the build
20100902 18:48:46< AI0867> I also had a message saying which revision was at fault sitting in my IRC client, ready to send
20100902 18:48:55< AI0867> it was still there when I got back
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20100902 19:13:18< Gambit> shadowmaster: Yeah if you find a bug in Dead Water let me know. I
20100902 19:13:24< Gambit> 'll take care of the one in that thread
20100902 19:13:54< fendrin> Gambit: Don't forget to add yourself to the credits of DW as the current maintainer.
20100902 19:14:14< Gambit> I wonder how balance-changing it would be if they only got the free recruits when they captured neutral villages.
20100902 19:14:35< Gambit> It's annoying/highly unexpected that you can take their village, and they can take back the same one again
20100902 19:16:37< Gambit> Actually according the code they do only get it once.
20100902 19:19:31-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100902 19:21:27< anonymissimus> Gambit: out of curiosity, how did you set up your C++ editing environment ? which IDE or whatever, and are you using gdb ?
20100902 19:21:38< Gambit> uh kate
20100902 19:21:49< Gambit> kde advanced text editor
20100902 19:22:08< Gambit> Kate and svn diff and scons
20100902 19:22:14< anonymissimus> does it natively have syntax highlighting etc
20100902 19:22:18< Gambit> Yes
20100902 19:22:33< anonymissimus> and debugging ?
20100902 19:22:37< Gambit> No
20100902 19:22:53< Gambit> So lots of errors before it successfully builds
20100902 19:22:55< anonymissimus> no debugger ?
20100902 19:22:59< Gambit> Nope
20100902 19:23:10< Gambit> It ussually tells me whats wrong when I do scons
20100902 19:23:22< anonymissimus> I mean and only know "graphical" debuggers such as the ones from MSVC or eclipse
20100902 19:23:31< anonymissimus> eclipse-java
20100902 19:24:01< anonymissimus> isn't scons a compiling tool ?
20100902 19:24:09< Gambit> Yes
20100902 19:24:17< Gambit> But it reports errors when you try to build.
20100902 19:24:18< anonymissimus> it tells you about syntax errors or linker errors ?
20100902 19:24:26< Gambit> I don't use an IDE
20100902 19:25:03< anonymissimus> but if the code doesn't work like it should but there's no compiler errors or whatever
20100902 19:25:26< Gambit> Yeah that might be a problem.
20100902 19:25:32< Gambit> So kate+scons+svn diff+lots and lots of testing
20100902 19:25:41< anonymissimus> well it happens all the time for me :P
20100902 19:26:20< anonymissimus> I see these DBG_NG etc stuff in the C++ code, I guess it's used for debugging ?
20100902 19:26:47< anonymissimus> only drwaback of the vs debugger is that it's so slow
20100902 19:27:01< anonymissimus> and sometimes doesn't work :P
20100902 19:27:10< Gambit> I think those arewhat gointo stderr or the output when run frmterminal
20100902 19:27:25 * Gambit typing 1 handed atm
20100902 19:28:02< anonymissimus> you are typing better one-handed than me two-handed
20100902 19:28:30< Gambit> Also RE highlighting, if you're on linux you've got to get kate
20100902 19:28:36< Gambit> You owe it to yourself
20100902 19:28:41< Gambit> It has highlighting for everything.
20100902 19:28:45< Gambit> Even WML!
20100902 19:28:56< Gambit> (some assembly required)
20100902 19:29:03< Gambit> (batteries not included)
20100902 19:31:28< CIA-35> espreon * r46220 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: Got rid of the pofix conversions that work on the source strings for the tips, for they'll become fuzzy anyway due to the effects of an earlier revision.
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20100902 19:38:01< anonymissimus> kate is qt-based, I like gnome when on linux
20100902 19:39:15 * Espreon rolls his eyes
20100902 19:40:38< Gambit> anonymissimus: kate works on gnome
20100902 19:40:43< Gambit> I'm on gnome.
20100902 19:41:13< anonymissimus> but doesn't it need additional packages ?
20100902 19:41:53< Gambit> If you install through the software center it should take care of all of that.
20100902 19:42:37< Gambit> Even through the terminal with apt-get it should find everything extra it might need.
20100902 19:42:59< Gambit> As far as downloading it elsewhere; I dunno.
20100902 19:44:26< anonymissimus> anyway, whenever I tried ubuntu on various machines I never got it really working
20100902 19:45:00< anonymissimus> there are always some driber issues or it doesn't reliably boot at all and such
20100902 19:47:16< Gambit> Anyway I've gotta get back to english and physics :(
20100902 19:47:18< Gambit> See you all
20100902 19:50:29< alink> fendrin: from your your pastebin: ~/wesnoth_develop/trunk$ ./wesnoth -e data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/maps/14_Human_Alliance.map 
20100902 19:50:37< alink> but also  :  Data directory: /usr/local/src/wesnoth_develop/trunk
20100902 19:51:16-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100902 19:51:39< alink> anyway, I asked how you launch it, because having a difference between in-game and editor is weird
20100902 19:51:57< alink> maybe try to edit the map and see if the change is visible in game
20100902 19:52:24< alink> or delete terrain-graphics.cfg to see if both launch methods still work
20100902 19:54:15< alink> eleazzaar: zookeeper: I just realized that you can always use transparent missing-image, because terrain rules with missing images are discarded.
20100902 19:54:38< alink> so feel free to add transparency to the old missing-image.png
20100902 19:55:24< alink> I just need to do something special for minimap tiles
20100902 19:57:06-!- mysticX [iwufwu@85.17.222.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20100902 19:57:59< alink> eleazzaar: since you already moved void/shroud, maybe we can rename those shroud/shroud-*, to make that more clear and avoid using the shroud image as "void"
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20100902 20:00:34< alink> Gambit: I prefer kdevelop, it has some very useful plugins (which boost my efficiency compared to just Kate)
20100902 20:05:07-!- yann_ [~dwitch@nan92-1-81-57-214-146.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100902 20:12:22< Gambit> Yeah I know there's better ways to do it, but my tiny forays into C++ don't really warrant anything too complex.
20100902 20:12:37< Gambit> Might want to poke anonymissimus with that suggestion if he's not found anything good yet.
20100902 20:14:06< alink> Gambit: well, kdevelop uses the kate engine, so you can use it as kate, ignore all its features, but some times try to use a new one :-)
20100902 20:15:09< alink> I recently edited the kdevelop projectfile, so if you try it and have a problem, feel free to ask
20100902 20:23:02< eleazzaar> alink: the same images *are* used for void and shroud-- they work great for both
20100902 20:23:35< alink> you mean "void.png"
20100902 20:23:51< alink> or the transitions  too ?
20100902 20:24:01< eleazzaar> yeah transitions too
20100902 20:24:11< eleazzaar> in the rare instances when transitions are needed
20100902 20:25:57< alink> oh ok then, still a bit confusing, and they are really not used the same way, using the same images seems weird
20100902 20:26:23< alink> but that's not important
20100902 20:27:11< eleazzaar> a good deal of the terrain images have legacy names that don't exactly make sense any more
20100902 20:28:02< alink> indeed, but since you already moved (=rename it) I thought that we could update those to a better name
20100902 20:31:55< alink> eleazzaar: btw I noticed that after the update of shroud transitions, shroud edge is much more bumpy. I liked the old smooth aspect, can we get something combining both (smooth and thinner transitions) ?
20100902 20:33:01< eleazzaar> the smoothness was at the expense of fitting the shape
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20100902 20:33:42< eleazzaar> hexes don't make straight lines
20100902 20:34:24< eleazzaar> so some hexes (with the old shroud) were *much* more heavily darkened
20100902 20:34:38< alink> yeah I undersand, but I was hoping something intermediate between 1.8 and 1.9
20100902 20:34:56< alink> maybe same thickness but lower alpha
20100902 20:35:27-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100902 20:38:17< eleazzaar> i'm getting rid of those "smooth" edges everywhere in terrain
20100902 20:38:25< eleazzaar> not only because they cause problems
20100902 20:39:34< eleazzaar> but because it strikes me as weird to try to make hex tiles look like squares/quadrilaterals
20100902 20:39:58< eleazzaar> unless of course it's a man-made feature like the wall
20100902 20:41:08< eleazzaar> alink: anyway, what do you think about giving certain terrains a different appearance in the editor?
20100902 20:41:20< eleazzaar> --- specifically things like the impassable overlay
20100902 20:41:41< eleazzaar> also keep, castle
20100902 20:41:55< eleazzaar> which rightfully are invisible in the game
20100902 20:42:23< anonymissimus> btw silene I subscribe to the manual variable substitution thing
20100902 20:42:56< alink> eleazzaar: good idea, maybe just a special option like we have for coordinates and terrain types ? so user can still see how it will look in-game
20100902 20:43:37< alink> here is the shroud change :  http://i.imgur.com/s5Vec.jpg   I still think that we lose something
20100902 20:44:27< silene> anonymissimus: just so that there is no misunderstanding, the substitution itself is still automatic; what's manual is requesting an automatic substitution; a really manual substitution is obtained by accessing the __parsed field for instance
20100902 20:45:27< eleazzaar> alink: yeah look at the hexes at the corners of that chunk of shroud near "plant palms"
20100902 20:46:02< eleazzaar> with the old version a couple non-shrouded hexes are nearly covered with black
20100902 20:46:26< alink> I should have used grid in my screenshot
20100902 20:47:28< eleazzaar> you should need to turn on the grid to tell where the shroud is?
20100902 20:47:34< alink> but yeah some are 3/4 covered
20100902 20:48:05< alink> to see how much was covered
20100902 20:48:26< alink> but, indeed, you better guess the hex location with the new shroud
20100902 20:49:09< alink> I don't deny that it's better for UI, I just found it less nice for the eye
20100902 20:50:22< alink> and lowering the alpha looked like a possibility keeping both things
20100902 20:50:57< eleazzaar> gameplay functionality  carries a heavier weight with me
20100902 20:51:38< eleazzaar> also i don't think adjusting the alpha would return things to a "smooth" look
20100902 20:53:27< eleazzaar> actually i'm surprized someone hasn't complained about this earlier ;)
20100902 20:53:38< alink> I mean use the smooth old way, but with alpha reducing faster, so what's under shroud is still covered but visible enough.
20100902 20:53:54< alink> I am just not sure if it will tile nicely
20100902 20:54:42< eleazzaar> alink: that's what i thought you meant,  it just won't look like you imagine
20100902 20:55:09< eleazzaar> i have 1 hex at most to do the transition
20100902 20:55:39< anonymissimus> do I need to fully re-checkout the source code after getting commit access ?
20100902 20:56:03< eleazzaar> if you make the far edge lighter, that only emphasized the edge next to the fully black hexes
20100902 20:56:51< anonymissimus> I followed instructions here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SVN_on_Windows
20100902 20:58:01< alink> eleazzaar: I see. I suppose that it could be less nice too
20100902 20:58:08< silene> anonymissimus: no you should be able to perform a svn switch (no idea how it's called in tortoise)
20100902 20:58:36< silene> anonymissimus: by the way, all that will only work once you have uploaded your keys to gna
20100902 20:58:46< anonymissimus> yes
20100902 20:59:13< anonymissimus> I did but it says I need to wait some hours maybe so that could also be the reason
20100902 20:59:57< silene> yes, you need to wait; uploading is done at fixed times
20100902 21:00:37< alink>  so, it can be fast if you are lucky :-)
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20100902 21:00:51< silene> right
20100902 21:04:33< noy> anybody here a native russian speaker?
20100902 21:08:25< Espreon> noy: You could wait for loonycyborg.
20100902 21:08:36< noy> yeah, now is kinda important
20100902 21:09:40< Espreon> Oh, I see.
20100902 21:11:32< anonymissimus> I would greatly appreciate if mainscreen+F5 could get fixed :)
20100902 21:19:52< Gambit> +1
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20100902 21:27:09< CIA-35> alink * r46221 /trunk/src/ (builder.cpp builder.hpp): 
20100902 21:27:10< CIA-35> Much more stable terrain variation randomization (fix bug #16612)
20100902 21:27:10< CIA-35> Hash the image name, so the only thing now affecting it is images rename and change in the hash function (which still need some polishing).
20100902 21:27:36< alink> zookeeper: ^done. Should work more you as you wanted
20100902 21:29:43< alink> of course directly changing the WML of the terrain rule may also affect it. And if the rule set special flags affecting other following rules, you can still have a ripple effect.
20100902 21:30:35< alink> but the RNG is stable between any loading details (editor, game, UMC) and not affected anymore by rules order
20100902 21:31:18< alink> (which was the main problem)
20100902 21:32:20< Espreon> anonymissimus: Then complain to mordante.
20100902 21:32:34< anonymissimus> shall I make a bug report ?
20100902 21:32:47< anonymissimus> and for the back-to-aimnscreen thing too
20100902 21:32:52< anonymissimus> mainscreen
20100902 21:33:03< Espreon> Eh, I'm sure he's aware of the F5 regression.
20100902 21:33:19< Espreon> Not sure of the other issue, though.
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20100902 21:40:33< CIA-35> espreon * r46222 /trunk/ (108 files in 5 dirs): Uncommented and applied some old pofix conversions.
20100902 21:46:32< CIA-35> eleazar * r46223 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: fixed the move/def of the muddy quagmire-- i.e. actually made it an alias of swamp.
20100902 21:47:09< zookeeper> alink, cool, thanks
20100902 21:47:16-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100902 21:48:41< [Relic]> Hello :)
20100902 21:50:48< alink> zookeeper: btw just an idea: what do you think about using one initial random seed in the map, and the author could edit it. One possible way, would be to hit F5 until you are happy about the result and then save it in the map WML.
20100902 21:51:59< eleazzaar> Note: Deciduous Winter forests are simply forests, but Pine Winter forests are combos of forest and frozen --- that doesn
20100902 21:52:06< eleazzaar> ... doesn't make any sense
20100902 21:52:45< alink> eleazzaar: yeah we should fix this name thing before the release. Probably the result of recursive alias 
20100902 21:53:25< eleazzaar> alink: i've just discovered that each terrain doesn't need a "name" tag
20100902 21:53:44< eleazzaar> because it will inhereit from "aliasof="
20100902 21:54:03< alink> make sense
20100902 21:54:25< eleazzaar> but yes i agree-- i would like to get this name thing squared away
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20100902 21:59:15< eleazzaar> away for a while....
20100902 22:03:10< CIA-35> alink * r46224 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Temporary add a "Refresh" button in titlescreen because too many WML devs complains about it
20100902 22:03:23< alink> anonymissimus: ^
20100902 22:03:47< anonymissimus> :)
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20100902 22:15:56< CIA-35> alink * r46225 /trunk/src/game.cpp: 
20100902 22:15:56< CIA-35> Fix reload issues after the GUI2 titlescreen change (bug #16578)
20100902 22:15:56< CIA-35> (caused by the weird code of game.cpp)
20100902 22:17:26< alink> mmh this big combined bugreport is not practical :-/
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20100902 22:19:41< Ivanovic> yeah, this is really impractical
20100902 22:20:32< alink> if gna allowed to edit post, it could work
20100902 22:20:32< zookeeper> alink, umm, not sure about that. might be nice
20100902 22:20:52< zookeeper> eleazzaar, right, i can take a look at the forest aliasing
20100902 22:21:44< alink> zookeeper: yeah was just throwing idea, since I have now better control of rule randomization. But i see various possibilities
20100902 22:22:14< alink> it's mostly an UI problem if we want to be possible to use editor only (without  WML edit)
20100902 22:22:34< zookeeper> eleazzaar, the winter deciduous forest isn't snowy, so it's not aliased to snow
20100902 22:22:49< zookeeper> the snowy deciduous forest is
20100902 22:22:53< alink> I suppose that a F5 local to a hex could be nice too
20100902 22:23:46< alink> ah I can't save that into the map string data :-/
20100902 22:24:05< zookeeper> alink, about the randomization: how much can changing a terrain mid-scenario (with [terrain]) change the randomizations? if i change one hex, the adjacent hexes can get randomized differently? how about hexes further away?
20100902 22:24:54< zookeeper> IIRC at some point (some years ago) things were fixed so that the randomization changes were really minimal
20100902 22:25:14< zookeeper> it'd be unfortunate if there could now be bigger cascading effects when changing a single hex
20100902 22:25:28< alink> if you see change only in adjacent hexes, then it's probably caused by flags change. This is controlled by WML terrain rules
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20100902 22:28:13< zookeeper> alink, well, i'll check out how it works now sometime soon
20100902 22:28:29< alink> I am not sure if we can fix that. It could make sense to have a cascading effect could make sense with mountains for example. If there is no rule/image working at the changed location and compatible to adjacent images, then the change should propagate
20100902 22:29:01< alink> But, as I said, improving the terrain WML may possibly make it more robust
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20100902 22:32:34< alink> zookeeper: btw I may still need to work a bit on the hash function, so randomization may change again before 1.9.1. But after that we could freeze it
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20100902 22:36:10< zookeeper> alink, ok
20100902 22:37:04< zookeeper> can't say i still understand how the whole thing really works ;)
20100902 22:38:40< boucman> hey all
20100902 22:38:46< boucman> Ivanovic: you pinged me ?
20100902 22:39:07< Ivanovic> boucman: yeah, about gsoc mentor summit
20100902 22:39:09< alink> easy to explay the random seed was a complex formula using location and rule number (which depend or rule definition order). Not it's location and a "hash" of image's name (that is translate filename into a number). Only things affecting it is file rename and the "translation/hash" function
20100902 22:39:13< alink> boucman: hi
20100902 22:39:15< boucman> yes
20100902 22:39:18< alink> *explain
20100902 22:39:20< boucman> hey alink
20100902 22:40:24< alink> bah I screwed most of my words in my explanation :-/
20100902 22:41:24< alink> s/or/of  s/Not/Now 
20100902 22:41:31< alink> tired, need some afk, bbl
20100902 22:41:58< zookeeper> right
20100902 22:43:01 * zookeeper wonders why it's not good enough to just use the map data itself (the initial map, in case it changes mid-scenario) as the seed
20100902 22:44:12< CIA-35> anonymissimus * r46226 /trunk/projectfiles/CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp: Updated CodeBlocks project file.
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20100902 22:49:54< zookeeper> eleazzaar, so, basically deciduous forests need both a non-snowy leafless winter variation and a snowy leafless winter variation, whereas pines just need the normal one and a snowy one
20100902 22:51:01< zookeeper> however, map-makers need to make sure they don't accidentally use something like Aa^Fdw (which would alias to forest) instead of Aa^Fda (which would alias to snow,forest) even though they're visually very similar
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20100902 22:58:27< CIA-35> anonymissimus * r46227 /trunk/projectfiles/CodeBlocks/liblua.cbp: Added embedded lua for CodeBlocks compiling.
20100902 22:59:25< Simons_Mith> @Espreon: ayup. Got your notes.
20100902 23:00:27< Espreon> Simons_Mith: Excellent.
20100902 23:01:16< Simons_Mith> I had NOT forgotten core, just wanted to be sure campaigns are fully out the way first! :-)
20100902 23:01:54< Espreon> Ah, I see.
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20100902 23:18:31< zookeeper> Espreon, you got an svn-capable computer again?
20100902 23:19:04< Espreon> zookeeper: Yup.
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20100902 23:22:16< Espreon> zookeeper: Did you want me to do something?
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20100902 23:26:48< zookeeper> Espreon, well, you could double-check if you broke any more scenario id references when you were adding proper numbering to them than the ones i fixed already... :p
20100902 23:28:25< zookeeper> i fixed some in r45934 and r45467
20100902 23:29:34< eleazzaar> zookeeper: re: snow forests.  Of course... i should have realized that's what was going on.
20100902 23:31:00< zookeeper> eleazzaar, it's a bit unfortunate that (AFAIK) we can't make it automatically behave in a sane manner (that is, interpret Aa^Fdw as snow,forest anyway since that's what it looks like), but i think map-makers ought to be able to handle it.
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20100902 23:34:44< zookeeper> also i myself almost tripped on the forested hills the other day...i wanted to put winter/spring forest on green hills, and ended up with something which was visually right and only later realized that it was aliased to forest only
20100902 23:35:35< eleazzaar> yeah, our combo system leaves something to be desired
20100902 23:35:42< zookeeper> small price to pay for the otherwise cool terrains, i guess ;)
20100902 23:36:16< zookeeper> yeah, but the problem is that we can't just do something like make forests always alias to base,forest since that screws up with cavalry units and so on
20100902 23:36:23< zookeeper> anyways, i gotta be going...
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 03 00:00:23 2010