--- Log opened Sat Sep 11 00:00:40 2010
20100911 00:02:02< zookeeper> anonymissimus, okay, i guess it should be simple enough to go through each one and check if anything needs to be changed
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20100911 00:13:15< zookeeper> urgh. what does the "A Trap for the Unwary" part of EventWML really have to do with order of event execution at all?
20100911 00:13:23< zookeeper> i don't see any connection
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20100911 00:17:48< zookeeper> oh well, i removed the event execution order part anyway. i'll add some kind of mention of what the order is later.
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20100911 01:52:11< eleazzaar> Why do we have mountains inside caves in NR?
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20100911 01:54:03< shadowmaster> because Taurus designed those maps so when it was a UMC and nobody's fixed it since then
20100911 01:54:19< shadowmaster> I don't know what they are supposed to mean either.
20100911 01:54:49< shadowmaster> maybe some taller variant of the rockbound cave terrain
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20100911 01:55:25< eleazzaar> really pointy stalagmites = mountains ??
20100911 01:55:51< shadowmaster> er, more like elevated (word?) cave terrain
20100911 01:56:13< shadowmaster> (taller? higher? steeper?)
20100911 01:56:56< eleazzaar> Gah! and here's one with crops growing inside
20100911 01:57:31< shadowmaster> those are also explained in dialog
20100911 01:58:06< eleazzaar> i haven't played very far... just looking through the maps to get a feel how the my terrain looks
20100911 01:58:16< shadowmaster> if you want to fix the terrains in NR, maybe you could drop it from mainline to reduce the players' suicide rates? ;)
20100911 01:58:22< shadowmaster> *instead
20100911 01:59:44< eleazzaar> i didn't find it fun
20100911 02:02:50< eleazzaar> looking at these maps i'm glad i didn't try to struggle through it
20100911 02:09:38< shadowmaster> eleazzaar: do you have any FRs pending?
20100911 02:09:53< eleazzaar> several i think
20100911 02:10:25< eleazzaar> shadowmaster: why?
20100911 02:10:53< shadowmaster> I'm considering doing small stuff to not forget how to write C++.
20100911 02:11:06< shadowmaster> since I've been away from coding for too long
20100911 02:11:17< eleazzaar> there's one i think would be easy
20100911 02:11:28< eleazzaar> that i've been dying to see implemented
20100911 02:12:54< eleazzaar> shadowmaster:  this one: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16450
20100911 02:14:07< shadowmaster> sounds good
20100911 02:14:56< eleazzaar> i am of course happy to clarify anything that might not be clearly explained
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20100911 02:36:30< CIA-35> alink * r46364 /trunk/src/ (5 files): Skip local light calculation on map not using any ToD areas
20100911 02:36:32< CIA-35> alink * r46365 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: 
20100911 02:36:32< CIA-35> Clarify some comments about optimization of water transition with void
20100911 02:36:32< CIA-35> Note that the commented off code was not working
20100911 02:36:36< CIA-35> alink * r46366 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: 
20100911 02:36:36< CIA-35> Disable "water transitions that meld the edges of out-of-sync animating tiles"
20100911 02:36:36< CIA-35> because the engine doesn't synchronize animation yet and there is a problem with transition directions.
20100911 02:36:36< CIA-35> This improves the framerate a lot for big patch of water without real visual difference
20100911 02:36:38< CIA-35> alink * r46367 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/builder.cfg: 
20100911 02:36:38< CIA-35> Add a macro to get only first frame of animation
20100911 02:36:38< CIA-35> (=disable the animation but still render the terrain image)
20100911 02:36:40< CIA-35> alink * r46368 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: Temporary disable water animation under ford (not really visible)
20100911 02:36:43< CIA-35> alink * r46369 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: 
20100911 02:36:43< CIA-35> Temporary disable water animation under swamp
20100911 02:36:43< CIA-35> (often not visible and make sense to be stagnant)
20100911 02:36:47< CIA-35> alink * r46370 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: Also disable water animation for swamp water-to-land (really not visible)
20100911 02:39:08< alink> eleazzaar: ^ temporary disabled few animations costing some fps without significant visual gain (sometimes none).
20100911 02:40:03< alink> they could be reactivated later when engine will be improved, but in the mean time, I think it's better to make 1.9 water less sluggish
20100911 02:40:52< alink> I am working on c++ code but will not be ready for 1.9.10
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20100911 03:15:46< shadowmaster> alink: you mean 1.9.?
20100911 03:15:54< shadowmaster> I mean, 1.9.1 :p
20100911 03:17:25< alink> yes 1.9.1, I hope it will be ready before 1.9.10 ;p
20100911 03:18:28< shadowmaster> I just finished playing AToTB on 1.9.0+svn. The other day I played AOI. It feels good to play Wesnoth for a change, after so long...
20100911 03:24:46< shadowmaster> blargh. I can't stand gna.org's logging me out whenever my ISP changes my IP
20100911 03:24:55< shadowmaster> i.e. whenever I reconnect
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20100911 04:22:54< CIA-35> eleazar * r46371 /trunk/ (17 files in 3 dirs): Improved non-blocky transitions for cobbled road.
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20100911 06:18:59< shadowmaster> man dup2
20100911 06:19:02< shadowmaster> er.
20100911 06:21:31< Pentalis> shadowmaster: Do you know something about the way Wesnoth renders the hexgrid and sprites to the screen?
20100911 06:23:25< shadowmaster> no. alink should know since he's worked a lot on that area.
20100911 06:24:08< Pentalis> shadowmaster: Do you know (roughly) when I can find him online?
20100911 06:24:22< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen alink
20100911 06:24:22< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick alink last spoke 3h 6m ago.  2h 39m ago they left with the message: Remote host closed the connection
20100911 06:24:35< shadowmaster> hm, not sure. he's normally around at this time.
20100911 06:24:51< Pentalis> Nice. Thank you.
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20100911 07:29:34< Espreon> Damn it, if only there were someone here who could help me determine which strings are sent to the terminal.
20100911 07:29:55< Pentalis> Espreon: what do you need to know exactly?
20100911 07:30:04< Pentalis> (or what's the problem you're trying to solve)
20100911 07:32:42< Espreon> Pentalis: Well, I was just appling some apostrophe/quote conversion patches, but I want to make sure that stuff that is sent to the terminal remains pure ASCII, but I have no idea how to determine what is sent to the terminal.
20100911 07:36:02< Pentalis> Espreon: From what I understand of your problem, I think you can test your conversion patches by sending the output to the terminal with std::clog  (#include <iostream> needed)
20100911 07:36:32< Pentalis> Espreon: std::clog always goes to the terminal, while std::cout sometimes does and sometimes not.
20100911 07:36:39< Espreon> I see...
20100911 07:37:17< Pentalis> Another way to test if your text is pure ASCII is to simply save it to a file.
20100911 07:37:28< Pentalis> I hope that actually helps with your problem  o.O
20100911 07:38:28< Espreon> ...
20100911 07:38:50 * Pentalis will take that as a no
20100911 07:39:02< Pentalis> Maybe I'm confusing what you mean with terminal in this context
20100911 07:39:47< Pentalis> I thought you were referring to the black and white console where commands are issued in the operative system.
20100911 07:40:02< Pentalis> Which... yeah, sorry  :]
20100911 07:40:32< Espreon> Yes, I'm talking about that.
20100911 07:41:00< Espreon> Yeah, I think I'll just wait for alink or... whomever... because I have no idea what the hell is what.
20100911 07:41:11 * Espreon can't read gibbe... err... C++.
20100911 07:41:18< Pentalis> Ooh, that was the problem.
20100911 07:41:24< Pentalis> =P
20100911 07:41:57< Pentalis> www.cplusplus.com  can help you with that if you're motivated enough.
20100911 07:42:05< Espreon> ... I think not...
20100911 07:42:10< Pentalis> You can also send the code where you're working to  www.pastebin.com
20100911 07:42:23< Pentalis> And I may be able to help you.
20100911 07:42:29< Pentalis> (I'll try at least)
20100911 07:43:01< Espreon> Nah, I think I'll just wait. Thanks anyway.
20100911 07:43:06< Pentalis> Okey!
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20100911 08:23:23< Espreon> silene: Around?
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20100911 09:10:11< CIA-35> fendrin * r46372 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg: 
20100911 09:10:11< CIA-35> LoW 01: Syncronized the prose with the new objectives.
20100911 09:10:11< CIA-35> The prose still needs to be polished.
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20100911 09:41:27< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46373 /trunk/data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/scenarios/08_A_Small_Favor2.cfg: Fixed major breakage due to the floor terrain change, and removed the silly-looking signpost.
20100911 09:41:29< zookeeper> agh, how on earth did i miss that in the first place :x
20100911 09:44:22< fendrin> Crab_: Are you around?
20100911 09:44:27< Crab_> yes
20100911 09:45:38< fendrin> Crab_: The first chapter of LoW is rather long (7 scenarios) and I thought I could split it up by in a part with and a part without cleodil.
20100911 09:46:24< fendrin> Crab_: Cleodil could be a third player with her unique recall list being the only side to recruit shamans but missing the fighter line, what do you think of that?
20100911 09:47:35< Crab_> I think that this is a nice workaround to get the 'different recall list per leader' feature. gameplay wise, it should be needed to play it to see if it's ok.
20100911 09:48:36< Crab_> but, there is a problem - if each leader can recruit only 1 type of unit, there's little tactics in 'how to spend the gold'.
20100911 09:49:20< Crab_> personally, I think that it's better to concentrate on the second arc where there's need for more interesting scenarios
20100911 09:49:20< fendrin> Crab_: The player of cleodil could recruit scout archer and shaman.
20100911 09:49:30< Crab_> fendrin: ok, 3 units are ok
20100911 09:49:37< fendrin> the Players of kalenz and landar can recruit all but not shaman.
20100911 09:49:54< Crab_> this evens out kalenz and landar somewhat...
20100911 09:50:14< Crab_> one more problem - if there's 2 players, after olurf gets added, we get 4 sides and 2 players
20100911 09:50:26< Crab_> it means that in most MP games the players will divide the sides 2:2
20100911 09:50:43< Crab_> so, the same player who's playing landar would get cleodil or olurf, which is bad story-wise.
20100911 09:52:26< fendrin> Crab_: Hmm, I have only thought about such a setup until now.
20100911 09:53:08< Crab_> of course, it's ok if the players actively decide to do so, but we shouldn't encourage that, imo..
20100911 09:53:56< fendrin> There can be an extra 2 player version of the 4 player part that groups olurf with cleodil under one player and kalenz and landar under the second.
20100911 09:55:06< Crab_> which is bad since in the end it's kalenz vs landar, so the player who's controlling both can balance them whatever way he wants.
20100911 09:55:47< fendrin> Yeah
20100911 09:55:50< fendrin> hmmm
20100911 09:56:01< Crab_> I'd personally kept it as 2 player campaign with opportunity for a optional players in the first arcs.
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20100911 09:57:06< fendrin> Crab_: The main reason for doing this is the fact that I don't know how to easily balance Kalenz and Landar after Cleodil arrives.
20100911 09:57:22< fendrin> In multiplayer mode only of course
20100911 09:57:46< Crab_> I was thinking about adding a new unit 'Elvish Assasin' to Landar
20100911 09:59:09< Crab_> something cool enough and which can be easily used to kill shamans later on (e.g. with backstab and skirmish on L3 or L4)
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20100911 10:00:07< Ivanovic> moin
20100911 10:00:10< fendrin> Crab_: That sounds like an idea to think about. I will write it down.
20100911 10:00:11< Crab_> fendrin: it would also allow to redesign the 'elvish assasins' scenario as a mini game where several of them, controlled by Kalenz's player, try to assasinate Landar, who tries to escape.
20100911 10:00:21< fendrin> Ivanovic: hello :-)
20100911 10:01:55< Crab_> fendrin: oops, switched sides accidentially :)
20100911 10:02:06< Crab_> fendrin:  several of them, controlled by Landar's player, try to assasinate Kalenz, who tries to escape.
20100911 10:02:10< fendrin> Crab_: Yepp, and elvish assasins needs a redesign for multiplayer anyway.
20100911 10:03:17< Crab_> fendrin: one idea: let it be 'shamans support Kalenz, so Landar sends assasins after all shamans in Kalenz's army'
20100911 10:03:51< Crab_> fendrin: so, there's a chance for P2 to kill out shamans in Kalenz's army while there's a chance for P1 to kill out some assasins and to save shamans.
20100911 10:04:15< Crab_> fendrin: and, depending on the outcome, P1 and P2 would have different number of shamans/assasins in next scenario
20100911 10:05:12< Crab_> it can be designed to give the weaker side the opportunity to even out somewhat
20100911 10:05:24< fendrin> The problem is that I can't introduce and test the setup in the dev release without some sort of unit image for the assasin
20100911 10:06:19< Crab_> yes, maybe, for start, a slightly modified image of some other unit will do ?
20100911 10:07:06< fendrin> Hmmm, don't know which rules apply to dev releases and art standards.
20100911 10:07:21< Crab_> say, make it a new L4 promotion for an elvish avenger
20100911 10:07:24< Crab_> Ivanovic: ^ ?
20100911 10:07:36< fendrin> Ivanovic: Can dev releases contain unit image stubs?
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20100911 10:07:59< Ivanovic> fendrin: uhm, talk to jetrel about this
20100911 10:08:16< Ivanovic> just /query him and ask
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20100911 10:24:11< fendrin> Crab_: Jetrel is fine with including a stub into a development release (of course it needs to go out before it gets stable).
20100911 10:24:21< Crab_> fendrin: that's great
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20100911 10:47:49< zookeeper> anyone happen to know if [terrain] can easily _remove_ the overlay terrain, if i don't know what the base terrain is?
20100911 10:49:12< Crab_> zookeeper: afair it had a switch "layer" to specify, with what layer (both, base, overlay) to work
20100911 10:51:23< zookeeper> Crab_, yeah, but the only thing i can think of is using layer=overlay and terrain="" or something like that
20100911 10:51:28 * zookeeper tries
20100911 10:56:03< zookeeper> nope, doesn't work
20100911 11:05:44< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46374 /trunk/data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Rewrote the code for the doors in the manor so that a custom terrain is no longer needed and so that the door locations and facing can be drawn on the map instead of being hardcoded in the scenario.
20100911 11:06:44< CIA-35> beetlenaut * r46375 /branches/resources/cartography-tools/great-continent.xcf: Added layers for Dead Water.
20100911 11:27:46< fendrin> Crab_: At what time in the campaign do you suggest to give Landar the ability to recruit the assassin?
20100911 11:28:28< Crab_> two options: 1) make it L4 promotion for the avenger, notify player about it in scenario 1, and let the player level his archers up.
20100911 11:29:12< Crab_> 2) when cleodil is rescued, rescue an elven assasin at the same time. 
20100911 11:29:26< Crab_> what do you think ?
20100911 11:38:22< Ivanovic> ilor_: you planned to merge in the new addon server this week
20100911 11:38:26< Ivanovic> what is the status of this?
20100911 11:42:02< fendrin> Crab_: Both ideas have their benefits. I still like the idea of the assassin being it's own line, since the shaman is one as well.
20100911 11:42:12< Crab_> that's good
20100911 11:42:32< fendrin> But it is at least three times the work than just making a lvl4. Mostly regarding the art.
20100911 11:42:41< Crab_> yes
20100911 11:43:09< fendrin> Crab_: And there is another thing jetrel told me.
20100911 11:43:58< fendrin> He thinks about a dryad unit, allied with the woses, woses + shamans + dryads could form a playable faction, suiting for a human player playing Cleodil pherhaps.
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20100911 11:44:35< Crab_> yes, that's for cleodil :)
20100911 11:49:05< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46376 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth/ja.po wesnoth-low/ja.po): updated Japanese translation
20100911 11:49:21< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46377 /branches/1.8/po/ (wesnoth/ja.po wesnoth-low/ja.po): updated Japanese translation
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20100911 13:00:12< Ivanovic> noy, boucman, crab_: please have a look at the latest mail on the gsoc mentors ml (relevant for the summit!)
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20100911 15:14:02< Gambit> Who do I ping about add-ons possibly containing copyrighted artwork
20100911 15:37:45< zookeeper> Gambit, well, if you're not sure then i guess this channel
20100911 15:38:07< Gambit> I think the killer rabbits add-on contains modified M$ clipart
20100911 15:38:15 * zookeeper looks
20100911 15:39:15< zookeeper> Gambit, which ones? i don't see anything resembling clipart there.
20100911 15:39:24< Gambit> The unit sprites
20100911 15:39:25< zookeeper> the rabbits?
20100911 15:39:31< Gambit> Yes
20100911 15:39:55< zookeeper> i've seen those before, they were in some really ancient campaign i think
20100911 15:41:21< zookeeper> "holidays in wesnoth" to be precise
20100911 15:41:26< zookeeper> it was for 1.0
20100911 15:42:42< zookeeper> he's made a few tweaks but it's definitely that one.
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20100911 16:57:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 155 bugs, 296 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100911 17:56:21 * Espreon wishes that alink or mordante were here...
20100911 18:00:47< Ivanovic> Espreon: what is the status of the apostroph changes?
20100911 18:01:12< Ivanovic> zookeeper said that he'll look at the tutorial diff over the weekend, what about the other ones?
20100911 18:01:38< Espreon> Ivanovic: Well, I'd like to apply some of Simons's work, but I need to determine whether or not strings that are sent to the terminal are affected.
20100911 18:01:43< Espreon> ... and I need help doing that.
20100911 18:02:10< Ivanovic> "strings sent to the terminal"?
20100911 18:02:14< Ivanovic> you mean commandline output?
20100911 18:02:16< Espreon> Yes.
20100911 18:02:29< Ivanovic> if he does not touch anything in src/ it should be fine
20100911 18:02:55< Espreon> ... and he did.
20100911 18:03:08< Ivanovic> he should not
20100911 18:03:41< Ivanovic> simply because not every terminal these days does use utf8
20100911 18:03:48< Espreon> Yes, I know.
20100911 18:03:52< Ivanovic> better safe there and just ascii for that stuff
20100911 18:04:07< Ivanovic> then remove those parts from the diff and let them out i'd say (or ask simons to do so)
20100911 18:04:45< Espreon> I'm just going to change stuff I'm sure is definitely not sent to the terminal.
20100911 18:04:52< Espreon> Well, I'll be back later.
20100911 18:07:33< Espreon> And of course, my mother's taking forever to get ready...
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20100911 18:12:31< Espreon> OK, bye...
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20100911 18:22:27< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46378 /trunk/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/ (1_Tutorial.cfg 2_Speaking.cfg 2_Tutorial.cfg): Applied tutorial typography patch #1906 by Simon Smith.
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20100911 19:11:10< Espreon> Ivanovic: How should I apply changes to wesnoth-manual?
20100911 19:11:22< Ivanovic> not at all
20100911 19:11:41< Ivanovic> in theory you would have to change the plaintext file doc/manual/manual.txt
20100911 19:11:52< Ivanovic> from this file stuff is generated as html
20100911 19:11:56< Espreon> OK.
20100911 19:11:59< Espreon> Thanks.
20100911 19:12:06< shadowmaster> hm, the manual's sources are docbook files, aren't they?
20100911 19:12:11< Ivanovic> but for html in theory you should use specialy stuff for non acsii chars
20100911 19:12:17< shadowmaster> hm, "argh"
20100911 19:12:31< Ivanovic> no idea how docbook/asciidoc does cope with non ascii chars inside the txt file
20100911 19:12:37< shadowmaster> I didn't know we used something as primitive as plain text
20100911 19:14:05< Espreon> Ivanovic: Hmmmm, it seems that non-ASCII characters are already used in the manual.
20100911 19:14:15< Espreon> So... yeahz...
20100911 19:14:26< Ivanovic> should not happen though
20100911 19:14:30< Ivanovic> like i said, should
20100911 19:14:34< shadowmaster> those are probably passed through a htmlencode()-like aogrithm
20100911 19:14:40< shadowmaster> *algorithm
20100911 19:14:48< shadowmaster> unless they are of the "formatting specification" kind
20100911 19:14:50< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: hmm, if they are it would be nice
20100911 19:15:13< Espreon> No, a non-ASCII character is directly used.
20100911 19:15:15< Ivanovic> Espreon: if you had some sample strings you could grep for them in the po file as well as the resulting .html files
20100911 19:15:20< shadowmaster> what is the command we use?
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20100911 19:15:57< shadowmaster> asciidoc
20100911 19:16:10< shadowmaster> what a name ;)
20100911 19:18:21< shadowmaster> continuing with the "theoretical" stuff, most UAs nowadays should be able to handle UTF-8 in HTML files that advertise their encoding as UTF-8
20100911 19:18:39< shadowmaster> even if it isn't encoded as entities.
20100911 19:19:02< shadowmaster> the same should apply to XML parsers.
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20100911 19:22:04< Espreon> Ivanovic: Well, you don't care if more non-ASCII characters are added, do you?
20100911 19:22:39< Ivanovic> Espreon: i care if stuff is f***ed up after generation
20100911 19:23:08< Espreon> Well, the resulting English HTML file seems fine.
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20100911 19:25:15< shadowmaster> just commit it and I can generate it to see what happens
20100911 19:25:21< Espreon> Very well.
20100911 19:25:30< shadowmaster> and tell me what to look for, of course
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20100911 19:26:25< Espreon> First let me manually apply a shitload of changes...
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20100911 19:33:26< Simons_Mith> ... manual changes? When you say 'manual' do you mean the text you get from 'man wesnoth'?
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20100911 19:35:18< Espreon> Simons_Mith: Hmmm? Please give me the exact words.
20100911 19:35:25< shadowmaster> Simons_Mith: no, that'd be the manpage
20100911 19:35:27< fendrin> shadowmaster: Hello, I have cut LoW in more chapters. There are 5 now, each comes with the normal set of difficult levels. Makes 15 Low related MP maps over all...
20100911 19:35:44< shadowmaster> we are talking about the complete game manual.
20100911 19:36:14< shadowmaster> fendrin: hm, okay.
20100911 19:37:00< Simons_Mith> text-domain wesnoth-manual?
20100911 19:37:02< fendrin> shadowmaster: It's cluttering the mp map selector quite heavy, but I hope that is only temporary until a difficult choosing solution is implemented for MP.
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20100911 19:39:32< fendrin> hi boucman
20100911 19:39:39< boucman> hey fendrin
20100911 19:41:25< Espreon> Hello boucman.
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20100911 19:53:02< isionous> what is the preferred build system for wesnoth? SCons or CMake?
20100911 19:53:47< boucman> isionous: both work
20100911 19:54:19< isionous> boucman, so there is no big external reason for me to choose one over the other?
20100911 19:54:25< boucman> nope
20100911 19:54:30< isionous> boucman, thanks
20100911 19:54:44< isionous> boucman, which one did you find to be better?
20100911 19:55:31< boucman> I never need to do anything complicated with builds, I use scons because it was there first and never bothered to switch, but for my particular use, both would be perfectly fine...
20100911 19:55:43< boucman> so no real answer to your question, I guess :P
20100911 19:55:46< isionous> boucman, thank you for your help
20100911 19:57:50< isionous> boucman, I was already leaning towards SCons; I just wanted to know if there was anything important I didn't know
20100911 19:57:56< isionous> boucman, so you were helpful
20100911 19:58:26< shadowmaster> isionous: I prefer scons myself
20100911 19:58:38< shadowmaster> it's quite easy to manage dual builds (debug and optimized) with it.
20100911 19:59:32< fendrin> isionous: cmake on the other hand is able to export an eclipse project.
20100911 19:59:37< shadowmaster> boucman: you don't happen to know a way to convince gna.org to not log me out whenever my IP changes, do you?
20100911 19:59:56< boucman> absolutely no idea, sorry
20100911 20:00:04< boucman> I never even noticed taht...
20100911 20:00:07< shadowmaster> okay, no problem.
20100911 20:00:10< shadowmaster> :(
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20100911 20:15:46< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: uhm, it does not log me out upon ip change
20100911 20:15:56< Ivanovic> are you sure that the relevant cookie is stored?
20100911 20:15:57< shadowmaster> what browser do you use?
20100911 20:16:01< Ivanovic> firefox
20100911 20:17:20< shadowmaster> I'm seeing the following cookies in firefox's list: gna.org:/:SV_THEME, gna.org:/:session_hash, gna.org:/:session_uid; gna.org:/:redirect_to_https
20100911 20:17:34< shadowmaster> (site:path:name)
20100911 20:17:34< Ivanovic> ehm, what url do you use?
20100911 20:17:46< Ivanovic> if you go the the http:// site: yeah, that is likely the problem
20100911 20:17:59< shadowmaster> usually, https://gna.org/projects/wesnoth/
20100911 20:18:05< shadowmaster> since it's in my bookmarks bar.
20100911 20:18:06< Ivanovic> though eg bugs.wesnoth.org directly redirects me to https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?group=wesnoth&set=custom&report_id=101&status_id=1&chunksz=150&boxoptionwanted=1
20100911 20:18:41< Ivanovic> and you are sure that you had "store login information" selected?
20100911 20:19:38< shadowmaster> yep
20100911 20:19:58< shadowmaster> oh, and the login page forgets the "remember me" checkbox...
20100911 20:20:47< shadowmaster> note that I don't have any problem with forum auth...I rarely need to login by hand regardless of what network I'm using (home wireless PPP, random wifi AP, university wifi)
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20100911 20:21:33< shadowmaster> gna.org's always caused problems here regardless of Firefox version and config dir freshness too.
20100911 20:22:26< shadowmaster> maybe I should uncheck the "stay in secure/https) mode after login" option...
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20100911 20:31:35< zookeeper> fendrin, btw, you could have all the difficulty levels but still only show one set of scenarios in the scenarios list; make the player choose the difficulty at the start of the first scenario and then advance to a different difficulty version of the scenario (which aren't shown in the scenario list) based on their choice.
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20100911 20:33:22< fendrin> zookeeper: Yes, I have considered that solution as well. But it has some benefits I want to avoid.
20100911 20:33:46< zookeeper> uh...
20100911 20:33:54< zookeeper> personally, i never want to avoid benefits :p
20100911 20:34:05< fendrin> hmmm, yeah
20100911 20:34:22< fendrin> I guess I mixed something up here :-)
20100911 20:34:27< zookeeper> probably ;)
20100911 20:40:36< Simons_Mith> zookeeper, thanks for putting my tutorial patch up.
20100911 20:48:46< zookeeper> no problem
20100911 21:02:35< zookeeper> silene, so, if i want to have a synchronized menu shown to side 1 at the start of a scenario, what's the recommended way to do it now?
20100911 21:03:47< zookeeper> a side turn/side 1 turn/turn 1 event?
20100911 21:09:24< silene> zookeeper: it's the same as before; if it's for mp, a side 1 turn 1 event; if it's for sp, a start event is fine
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20100911 21:16:53< zookeeper> silene, ok, thanks
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20100911 21:18:41< CIA-35> silene * r46379 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: 
20100911 21:18:41< CIA-35> Prevented creation of blank attributes.
20100911 21:18:41< CIA-35> Removed 'placement' from [unit] 'to_variable' since the attribute makes sense for [unit] itself only. Since it doesn't support variables, it is pointless.
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20100911 21:21:10< CIA-35> eleazar * r46380 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/flat/ (7 files): more transitions for cobbled road.
20100911 21:22:41< Ivanovic> Simons_Mith: you have seen that Espreon works on "the rest"?
20100911 21:22:52< Ivanovic> and our talk that messages printed to the terminal should not be changed?
20100911 21:24:12< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46381 /trunk/po/wesnoth-dm/ja.po: updated Japanese translation
20100911 21:24:12< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46382 /branches/1.8/po/wesnoth-dm/ja.po: updated Japanese translation
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20100911 21:33:08< CIA-35> silene * r46383 /trunk/src/replay.cpp: Fixed spurious error message flooding replays, since -1 means that the defender could not retaliate.
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20100911 21:43:29< boucman> zookeeper: around ?
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20100911 21:45:03< Vir> What do you think of this? http://vir.homelinux.org/wesnoth_new_render_algorithm.patch
20100911 21:45:27< Vir> it's against 1.8 branch and speeds up rendering by a factor of 8x
20100911 21:45:52< boucman> Vir: looking at it right now, but here are suggestions right away
20100911 21:46:19< boucman> 1) port it to 1.9, we are quite cautious with 1.8 and it's not even sure there will be more 1.8 releases
20100911 21:46:26< Vir> right
20100911 21:47:08< boucman> 2) (after I do a quick review while you're around) the proper way to submit is through patches.wesnoth.org, and have a look at http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9979 for how to do it
20100911 21:47:25< Vir> I know about it, will submit it there
20100911 21:47:32< boucman> k, cool
20100911 21:47:45< zookeeper> boucman, yeah, what's up?
20100911 21:47:49< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46384 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (7 files in 7 dirs): Updated my entries in the campaign credits.
20100911 21:47:55< Vir> one interesting observation I made. It seems unnecessary to sort the tblit vector
20100911 21:48:12< boucman> zookeeper: i'm not sure how to do it but it would be nice to have http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=455678#p455678 mainlined...
20100911 21:48:43< Vir> that would mean drawing_buffer_add is called in the correct order. Not a safe assumption to make, no?
20100911 21:49:19< boucman> Vir: not sure, alink and silene might know that better than me...
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20100911 21:52:09< silene> not me; the current code was written by mordante  and  alink
20100911 21:52:23< boucman> Vir:  for a start, you need a changelog and credit entry :)
20100911 21:52:33< zookeeper> boucman, nice...
20100911 21:52:37< boucman> silene: right, sorry, bad memory on my side
20100911 21:52:47< Vir> he, yeah I always forget changelog entries
20100911 21:53:37< boucman> zookeeper: it would probably need to be updated when new terrains are added.
20100911 21:53:42< boucman> eleazzaar: around ?
20100911 21:53:52< eleazzaar> yup
20100911 21:54:13< CIA-35> silene * r46385 /trunk/src/lobby_preferences.cpp: Avoided costly roundtrip through strings.
20100911 21:54:34< zookeeper> eleazzaar, if you want to keep that test map up-to-date, then sure, sounds like a decent idea to commit it...somewhere, i'm not sure where would be the best location
20100911 21:54:35< boucman> eleazzaar: see above, it seems a good idea to mainline your "all neighbours" map... if that's fine with you
20100911 21:55:20< boucman> zookeeper: I would say either directly in data/ with other test scenarios, or with the benchmark stuff (not sure where that one is, though)
20100911 21:55:39< zookeeper> eleazzaar, btw, the impassable mountain clouds have a hard top edge. visible when you got void, chasm or other very dark terrain north of the mountains.
20100911 21:56:29< CIA-35> eleazar * r46386 /trunk/ (42 files in 2 dirs): better transitions for clean cobbled road and overgrown path.
20100911 21:56:32< eleazzaar> zookeeper: yeah, i know, but it's hard to see against other terrain
20100911 21:56:46< eleazzaar> i'd like to redo those clouds-- haven't got around to it yet
20100911 21:56:50< boucman> Vir: it seems that you have quite a few hardcoded constants in your code
20100911 21:57:08< Vir> true
20100911 21:57:20< Vir> but for all I know they are safe
20100911 21:57:32< boucman> some of them make sense (the way bits are used in the key are unlikely to change) however, the number/order of the layers is something that could change, so that hardcoding isn't good
20100911 21:57:39< Vir> well, it limits maps to 2048x2048 (minus borders)
20100911 21:57:58< Vir> but it's hardcoded anyway
20100911 21:58:22< eleazzaar> zookeeper: boucman i'm not sure what you are referring too?  Did i accidentally commit one of my testing maps?
20100911 21:58:33< boucman> Vir: yes, the one worrying me it the 5 layers and it's variant (4 being the last valid one, your drawing_buffer_key constructor has an algo with a hardcoded 3 in it
20100911 21:58:38< Vir> if there need to be more than 4 layer groups then the bits need to be reshuffled or possible a 64-bit integer used
20100911 21:59:01< boucman> eleazzaar: no, you put it in the forum, and we think it's a nice tool that could be commited if we find a place that makes sense
20100911 21:59:21< eleazzaar> ah-- sorry i missed the link you were talking about
20100911 21:59:33< eleazzaar> yeah, i'd commit it if i knew of a path that made sense...
20100911 22:00:06< boucman> 64 bit is a bit dangerous since we still have 32 bits computers (perf hit would need to be studied, using a pair of 32bit int might work too if there are no bitrange crossing boundries)
20100911 22:00:58< Vir> boucman: there are 5 entries in layer_groups but if you look at the old render algo it's four layer groups getting drawn: "the ones inbetween"
20100911 22:01:15< zookeeper> eleazzaar, boucman, how about in data/test/? i'm not sure what the stuff in there is used for currently, but if we can push all sorts of testing stuff there, then it sounds like the right place.
20100911 22:01:58< eleazzaar> sounds good
20100911 22:02:06< Vir> boucman: and drawing_buffer_key creates a value of g in the range [0..3] (2 bits)
20100911 22:02:52< boucman> zookeeper: that directory seems to be dedicated to crab's AI testing, not sure if adding other map there is a good idea
20100911 22:03:23< Vir> boucman: should I add more documentation in the code regarding the layer_groups?
20100911 22:03:25< zookeeper> well in that case it's poorly named :P
20100911 22:04:58< boucman> Vir: I'm still trying to understand the code at this point, IIUC you are limited to 7 groups until we have to change the way that class works (which is fine since it would probably not be a very complicated change) but you said getting more than 4 groups would need reshuffling, and that might be a bit too little at some point
20100911 22:04:58< CIA-35> silene * r46387 /trunk/src/server/room_manager.cpp: Avoided costly roundtrip through strings.
20100911 22:04:58< CIA-35> silene * r46388 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Avoided costly roundtrip through strings.
20100911 22:05:15< boucman> zookeeper: agreed :P
20100911 22:06:19< Vir> boucman: the y and x would have to lose bits... 1024x1024 (minus borders) max maps
20100911 22:06:33< Vir> then you'd have 4 bits == 16 layer groups
20100911 22:07:03< boucman> ok, got it now...
20100911 22:07:23< boucman> vir how about using a pair of ints, one for layer group + y the other for layer+x
20100911 22:07:51< Vir> sure, no problem. just not necessary atm
20100911 22:08:00< boucman> it would leave us with more breathing rooms on both sides and you would have to compare the second int only if the first is equal
20100911 22:09:10< Vir> hmm, I'd rather just take 64-bit int then and let the compiler break it down for 32-bit archs
20100911 22:09:20< boucman> Vir: if it's not complicated let's do it right away, I think the cost is minor and we never know if/when we will need a new drawing layer...
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20100911 22:09:34< eleazzaar> does anybody do 1024x maps?
20100911 22:09:46< eleazzaar> currently the new map dialog stops me at 200x200
20100911 22:10:00< boucman> eleazzaar: good question :P zookeeper is the most likely to have some insight about that I guess
20100911 22:10:01 * Vir started the whole optimization because of very big map
20100911 22:10:08< boucman> how big ?
20100911 22:10:17< Vir> lemme check
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20100911 22:10:23< zookeeper> eleazzaar, i have no idea. i can't imagine why anyone would do that
20100911 22:10:27< Gambit> I'd like to find and remove that limitation, even if it's just in my copy...
20100911 22:10:55< zookeeper> a 1024x map would be...insanely huge
20100911 22:11:01< Vir> 421x373
20100911 22:11:02< zookeeper> eleazzaar, why?
20100911 22:11:29< Vir> it took 70s to open the map in the editor and zoom completely out in one step
20100911 22:11:32< zookeeper> oh, wait, nevermind. i missed the conversation.
20100911 22:11:44< Vir> now the same operation takes 9s
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20100911 22:12:19< Vir> and editing a 200x200 is snappy now after my changes
20100911 22:12:31< eleazzaar> it seems like a no brainer to loose the ability to make maps so big that no one does it anyway if that speeds things up a lot
20100911 22:12:34< boucman> Vir: ok, it seems that 1024 as a max wouldn't be a big issue for map builders... it would be nice to check what happens if you try to open a bigger map in case it causes a crash I guess
20100911 22:13:01< Vir> now it wouldn't crash it would just get the order key wrong
20100911 22:13:14< Vir> therefor the rendering order of tblits would get messed up
20100911 22:13:16< boucman> tue
20100911 22:13:17< Vir> but no crashes
20100911 22:13:41< zookeeper> personally, if limiting maps to as little as 256x256 brought some noticeable benefits then i wouldn't really think twice about it...
20100911 22:14:18 * Vir will give you 16 layer groups and 1000x1000 maps
20100911 22:14:29< boucman> Vir: sounds good
20100911 22:14:34< zookeeper> O.o
20100911 22:14:35< Vir> should I also increase the MaxBorder constant?
20100911 22:14:52< boucman> Vir: at that point I'm not sure what it does
20100911 22:15:05< Vir> you can define the border somewhere in wml
20100911 22:15:16< Vir> it's the amount of map tiles that are not reachable
20100911 22:15:45< boucman> how does it affect the drawing order, out of curiosity ?
20100911 22:16:59< Vir> if it's wrong some x and y values on the left/top side of the border would be negative, and then shifted
20100911 22:17:15< Vir> they would get a maximal large key value
20100911 22:17:50< Vir> so the drawing order of tiles in the border would be messed up
20100911 22:18:11< Vir> afaik border > 3 tiles won't ever be seen anyway
20100911 22:18:24< boucman> zookeeper: taht's another question for you :P
20100911 22:19:42< Vir> but then again, if, like I noticed, sorting is not necessary the whole key also becomes unnecessary
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20100911 22:22:37< boucman> Vir: i'm a bit suprised about that, it would mean that we add everything to the drawing buffer in the right order for rendering, and there is absolutely no reason for that to be the case, 
20100911 22:22:48 * Vir agrees
20100911 22:23:29< Vir> but I played a bit with drawing_buffer_.sort() commented out and didn't see a single glitch
20100911 22:23:36< boucman> it might be the case by pure luck ffor terrain, but IIRC this code also draws units, and i'm absolutely certain units don't do that, seeing how the decide to redraw themselves in totally random order 
20100911 22:25:20< boucman> vir did you try putting units into castles, moving units over other units ? flying units units around ? hiding units behind trees ?
20100911 22:25:33< boucman> these are the cases most likely to trigger drawing order bugs
20100911 22:25:44< Vir> a great tree...
20100911 22:25:45< Vir> no
20100911 22:26:02< Vir> I will take a look at those
20100911 22:26:16< Vir> first I make layer_groups more dynamic
20100911 22:26:39< boucman> and since sort is stable, removing it might not gain that much performance, I guess
20100911 22:28:22< Vir> oh for the big map you see a difference of ~1s
20100911 22:28:37< boucman> k
20100911 22:28:37< Vir> and I did not remove the key
20100911 22:28:47< Vir> but the sort should be the bigger part
20100911 22:33:05< boucman> Vir: not much more to say from the quick review, keep me posted about the sort thing (maybe as a comment when you submit the patch) and once it's ported to 1.9 I'll give it some deeper testing
20100911 22:33:16< boucman> and thx a lot for the work, it seems very promissing
20100911 22:33:21< Vir> :)
20100911 22:37:04< Vir> I also have a few more performance patches but I made them back when I was testing on a 32-bit machine. Now on 64-bit they don't seem to make a difference.
20100911 22:37:26< Vir> basically it's about what functions to inline because function call overhead is much higher on the 32-bit API
20100911 22:37:29< Vir> ABI
20100911 22:38:10< boucman> Vir: you might want to submit them anyway, we do have some low end users on old machines or mobile hardware, and it might help a lot for them
20100911 22:38:16< Vir> yes
20100911 22:43:47< Vir> yes, there are ordering issues without sort() if units walk over one another
20100911 22:44:08< Vir> didn't notice those before
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20100911 22:45:18< boucman> Vir: that's "good" in that we didn't spend so much time with mordante finding the right algo for nothing :P
20100911 22:45:28< Vir> :)
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20100911 22:54:46< Vir> (http://vir.homelinux.org/wesnoth_new_render_algorithm.patch updated)
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20100911 22:57:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 155 bugs, 296 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100911 22:57:41< boucman> Vir: not a problem per-se, but why don't you set blit.key_ in the blit constructor ? there is now way to change the x and y of a blit after creation anyway ? 
20100911 22:58:08< Vir> because it would require lots of code changes
20100911 22:58:15< Vir> this was the lazy variant
20100911 22:59:11< boucman> would it ? it's just removing line 776 and puttung it in the tblit constructor (on first sight)
20100911 22:59:23< boucman> but again, that's not a big deal, just a question while reviewing
20100911 22:59:33< Vir> yes, but the tblit constructor is called from ~30 places or so
20100911 23:00:41< boucman> so ? it's still a minor code change, you just need to change the three constructors, not the calling places, or am I missing something
20100911 23:00:48< Vir> more like 50
20100911 23:01:06< Vir> I'd need to change every line like drawing_buffer_add(LAYER_TERRAIN_TMP_BG, loc, tblit(xpos, ypos, selected_hex_overlay_));
20100911 23:01:27< Vir> to drawing_buffer_add(tblit(LAYER_TERRAIN_TMP_BG, loc, xpos, ypos, selected_hex_overlay_));
20100911 23:01:34< Vir> or drawing_buffer_add(LAYER_TERRAIN_TMP_BG, loc, xpos, ypos, selected_hex_overlay_);
20100911 23:01:42< Vir> or whatever order...
20100911 23:01:59< boucman> ok, got it
20100911 23:02:13< boucman> I hadn't noticed that you didn't have the layer in the tblit constructor...
20100911 23:02:22< Vir> layer and map_location
20100911 23:02:58< boucman> ok, not much more to say at that point, then
20100911 23:05:01 * Vir now tries to figure out how git(-svn) can port his patches to trunk
20100911 23:07:28< boucman> my get would be to use stash/unstash (assuming it's not locally commited) and fix where it doesn't apply cleanly
20100911 23:07:53< boucman> an alternative would be to commit your change locally and then "git cherrypick" it in the 1.9 branch
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20100911 23:08:36< Vir> yes, my problem is with git-svn not tracking trunk atm
20100911 23:08:43< Vir> and I don't know how to get it to do it
20100911 23:08:53< boucman> k, I never used git-svn, so I can't really help
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20100911 23:09:23< Vir> I'll figure it out
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--- Log closed Sun Sep 12 00:00:46 2010