--- Log opened Fri Sep 17 00:00:18 2010
--- Day changed Fri Sep 17 2010
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20100917 00:03:46< Ivanovic> Soliton: is the 1.9.1 mp server already running?
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20100917 00:12:09< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen esr
20100917 00:12:09< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick esr last spoke 1d 7h ago.  21h 25m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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20100917 03:26:59< CIA-35> eleazar * r46547 /trunk/data/core/ (25 files in 2 dirs): futher improvements to castle mixing. Also encampment graphics enhanced to work better in mixed situations.
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20100917 04:26:55< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen FAAB
20100917 04:26:55< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick FAAB 14d 19h ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Quit: Leaving.
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20100917 04:58:03< TheBuzzSaw> Did anyone happen to save the silver tree rpg screenshots before it went down?
20100917 04:58:18< TheBuzzSaw> oh wait
20100917 04:58:19< TheBuzzSaw> It's back up
20100917 04:58:25 * TheBuzzSaw grabs all the screenshots
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20100917 05:24:02 * TheBuzzSaw has terrible Internet.
20100917 05:26:53< johndh> wesbot: seen esr
20100917 05:26:54< wesbot> johndh: The person with the nick esr last spoke 1d 12h ago.  1d 2h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
20100917 05:39:20 * TheBuzzSaw wants Wesnoth 2.0
20100917 05:41:00< johndh> Would you settle for 1.9 for now?
20100917 05:41:53< johndh> I don't think a lot of people even know it's out yet.
20100917 05:42:37< TheBuzzSaw> I'll survive.
20100917 05:57:22< TheBuzzSaw> I'm still pushing for an OpenGL renderer :P
20100917 06:01:17< johndh> You're a coder, right?  Maybe if you volunteer your services... ;)
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20100917 06:10:47< TheBuzzSaw> I am indeed trying johndh
20100917 06:11:07< TheBuzzSaw> But the current rendering system is quite a large spiderweb
20100917 06:11:28< johndh> Cool.  I know next to nothing about this subject, I'm afraid.
20100917 06:12:08< TheBuzzSaw> Part of me just wants to start an engine from scratch :)
20100917 06:12:15< shadowmaster> don't we all?
20100917 06:12:32< johndh> lol You mean a new rendering engine or a whole new game?
20100917 06:12:41< TheBuzzSaw> new rendering engine
20100917 06:12:50< johndh> Okay, I was about to say you're insane...
20100917 06:12:54< shadowmaster> I was thinking about a new game engine.
20100917 06:13:12 * shadowmaster hides
20100917 06:13:38< TheBuzzSaw> shadowmaster: Let'
20100917 06:13:41< TheBuzzSaw> Let's do it :P
20100917 06:13:49< shadowmaster> argh, no.
20100917 06:13:53< johndh> There's so much good codebase out there to start with, though.
20100917 06:13:56< shadowmaster> I already had it with trying to write a WML parser of my own.
20100917 06:14:54< TheBuzzSaw> Lua > WML
20100917 06:15:42< TheBuzzSaw> johndh: The well-written portions could eventually be ported over
20100917 06:15:54< johndh> Oy... I still have to learn Lua eventually.  That's what our scenarios use in Glest.
20100917 06:23:41< TheBuzzSaw> I just need to research the logic of tile placement
20100917 06:23:46< TheBuzzSaw> Wesnoth has a fantastic art system
20100917 06:25:01< TheBuzzSaw> Are the map file formats documented?
20100917 06:25:47< johndh> The .map files themselves are just plain text.
20100917 06:26:27< TheBuzzSaw> the multiplayer map files are?
20100917 06:27:19< johndh> Maps and scenarios are done separately, so there's a .map file for where the hills, trees, etc., are... and a scenario file that handles everything that actually happens.
20100917 06:27:35< TheBuzzSaw> ah I see
20100917 06:27:51< johndh> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/BuildingMaps
20100917 06:28:02< johndh> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/BuildingScenarios
20100917 06:30:23< TheBuzzSaw> You're my hero
20100917 06:31:52< johndh> lol Aw shucks
20100917 06:32:27< johndh> If you want to take a look at how they're put together, you could also go into your Wesnoth folder and open them up.
20100917 06:32:39< johndh> Your usual text editor will do fine.
20100917 06:32:52< TheBuzzSaw> I need to redownload the game XD
20100917 06:32:55< TheBuzzSaw> just installed a new HDD
20100917 06:33:05< TheBuzzSaw> my Internet is being mean to me tho :C
20100917 06:34:02< johndh> Ah... understandable.  I prefer to do my big downloads on my uni's awesome internet.  My (neighbor's) wifi isn't so good. >.>
20100917 06:35:23 * TheBuzzSaw is checking out the SVN.
20100917 06:35:29< TheBuzzSaw> here goes nothin'
20100917 06:35:36< johndh> Good luck.
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20100917 07:11:44< TheBuzzSaw> Internet sux
20100917 07:11:56< TheBuzzSaw> SVN freezes consistently at wesnoth/fonts/COPYING
20100917 07:13:13< TheBuzzSaw> hello?
20100917 07:16:23< TheBuzzSaw> echooooo
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20100917 07:17:27< TheBuzzSaw> johndh: Are you alive?
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20100917 09:37:43< stikonas> http://tuxarena.blogspot.com/2010/09/wesnoth-19-brings-awesome-new-features.html
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20100917 09:38:32< stikonas> somebody reviewed Wesnoth 1.9.1, though they think that 2.0 will be released soon
20100917 09:38:36< shadowmaster> "Wesnoth 2.0"?
20100917 09:38:46< shadowmaster> they didn't get my memo.
20100917 09:38:51< shadowmaster> we aren't releasing Wesnoth 2.0 until mordante gets his stuff finished.
20100917 09:38:58< shadowmaster> so we'll release 1.10 instead.
20100917 09:39:02< stikonas> I know
20100917 09:39:08< stikonas> that us why I posted here
20100917 09:39:22< stikonas> s/us/is/
20100917 09:39:42< shadowmaster> by the time I loaded the page, it said "0 comments"
20100917 09:39:49< shadowmaster> ah wait, you said "here"
20100917 09:43:31< zookeeper> great, of course they're showing a screenshot of the awesome "new" title screen.
20100917 09:45:10< shadowmaster> btw, I finished TSG
20100917 09:45:16< shadowmaster> on the hardest difficulty.
20100917 09:46:17< stikonas> which branch?
20100917 09:46:23< shadowmaster> not much to say except that the ending (at least for the elves branch) is disappointing as always. Nice changes on the underground level, though -- I didn't like it the last time I played it (1.2 IIRC)
20100917 09:47:01< shadowmaster> there was a certain death trap in it back then
20100917 09:48:35< shadowmaster> by "disappointing" I mean "I'd rather use :unit moves=99 on Ethiliel after the first time than play the whole last scenario again"
20100917 09:49:09< shadowmaster> :n? what is that?
20100917 09:51:08< shadowmaster> wait a second O_o
20100917 09:51:16 * shadowmaster looks at bug #16609
20100917 09:52:49< shadowmaster> okay, mordante seems to not be watching bugs assigned to him anymore or he forgot to mark it as fixed.
20100917 09:53:31< shadowmaster> so I'll mark it as "Works For Me"
20100917 10:02:00-!- archl1 [~jie@corner6.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100917 10:02:29< archl1> hi, Im a Chinese translator, may I ask to increase the font size of in-game menu?
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20100917 10:08:38< Ivanovic> moin
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20100917 10:26:08< zookeeper> archl1, i guess mordante and/or ivanovic are a few people to ask about that...
20100917 10:26:21< Ivanovic> archl1: hmm, it is a difficult thing
20100917 10:26:30< archl1> thanks,
20100917 10:27:05< Ivanovic> archl1: increasing the size in general is problematic since it might create problems with low resolutions (you are only talking about the main screen, right? not the ingame help, not the editor, not the game screen, ...)
20100917 10:27:43< Ivanovic> and: what does main screen include for you? the preferences and menus reachable from there or only the buttons displayed as well as the tips of the day box?
20100917 10:28:56< Ivanovic> as far as i know there is no way (so far) to allow differing font sizes based on translation
20100917 10:29:03< archl1> ok, I meant to implement the Droid Sans Fallback to replace current CJK font...
20100917 10:30:03< archl1> As it is problematic, Im fine to accept the fact~
20100917 10:30:14< zookeeper> Ivanovic, well, if the font size is specified in a gui .cfg somewhere, then the value can be made translatable.. :p
20100917 10:30:36< Ivanovic> zookeeper: ugh, problematic
20100917 10:31:03< Ivanovic> zookeeper: you need a way to have different number in different locations as well as a way to "enforce updates" somehow...
20100917 10:31:30< Ivanovic> archl1: first some more information would be required like what is to small where
20100917 10:31:48< Ivanovic> archl1: you should have a look at the game in 800x480 using the --smallgui parameter
20100917 10:31:50< shadowmaster> I wonder if GUI1 buttons accept the old WML markup
20100917 10:32:16< shadowmaster> ah wait, the titlescreen is now- never mind
20100917 10:32:25< Ivanovic> that is the minimum size that is definitely used eg on some netbooks or on the pandora
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20100917 10:57:13< archl1> Current font is still to large I can send you the file show text broken in Chinese translation
20100917 10:57:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.9.1, announcing soon | 155 bugs, 296 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20100917 10:58:13< archl1> um
20100917 10:58:17< archl1> Next time
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20100917 11:12:44< zookeeper> thespaceinvader, were the tuskers supposed to get mainlined?
20100917 11:13:00< thespaceinvader> eventually, but I needed to rework the shading first
20100917 11:13:09< thespaceinvader> I have the base frames ready if you need them for something
20100917 11:14:17< zookeeper> nah, i was just reminded by them and wondered if you had just forgotten
20100917 11:14:25< zookeeper> s/by/of
20100917 11:18:55< Ivanovic> noy: what is the status of the kalifa?
20100917 11:19:07< noy> its going
20100917 11:19:16< noy> won't be ready for a few more months
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20100917 11:25:08< alink> oh, so gcc understand that "while(true) {if(cond()) return res;}" will always return something. nice :)
20100917 11:25:29< thespaceinvader> noy: on that note, apologies for the stalling on artwork
20100917 11:25:35< thespaceinvader> I intend to get back to it asap
20100917 11:25:41< thespaceinvader> been a busy couple months
20100917 11:25:59< noy> np
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20100917 12:02:59< Ivanovic> okay, for the 1.9.1 announcement: which known issues do we already have?
20100917 12:03:12< Ivanovic> that is: what are the known issues eg with the new main menu?
20100917 12:04:20< alink> maybe the thing about the need to click "connect" twice in the add-on dialog (to get wesnoth.org), but not sure if it's 1.9.1 new or not obvious
20100917 12:05:33< Ivanovic> it is new
20100917 12:05:45< alink> but maybe easy enough to find
20100917 12:05:55< Ivanovic> i'll mention it anyway
20100917 12:06:00< Ivanovic> anything else?
20100917 12:06:14< Ivanovic> any grave issues like, uhm, the computer exploding if you lose a campaign?
20100917 12:06:29< zookeeper> the main issue with the main menu is that it has a silly layout and that we're aware of it
20100917 12:06:30< alink> no, we fixed that ;)
20100917 12:06:42< alink> (the exploding thing)
20100917 12:06:47< Ivanovic> :(
20100917 12:07:29< Ivanovic> zookeeper: in fact the new layout is a lot better on low res screens with something like 800x480
20100917 12:08:06< zookeeper> Ivanovic, well, sure. but it still looks silly on a bigger res.
20100917 12:08:13< alink> ah perhaps, if people had deactivated "animated map" they may retry it with 1.9.1, since it should be better
20100917 12:09:48< alink> or is it still too expensive on "normal" computers ?
20100917 12:10:03< Ivanovic> alink: IMO it is not, at least not on the pandora
20100917 12:10:10< Ivanovic> there i ship a default config that activates it
20100917 12:10:47< alink> well, it is still too slow, but I hope it's playable enough
20100917 12:11:45< Ivanovic> alink: to get it really fast we would require some non software rendering (as in "doing things via the graphics card" aka opengl)
20100917 12:12:34< alink> yes that would help, of course, but we can still get more from simple SDL
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20100917 12:12:59< Ivanovic> alink: i think with the amount of animations getting more doing it via software won't be a real option
20100917 12:13:48< alink> animated terrain is a problem yes, but pure rendering can be improved
20100917 12:13:49< Ivanovic> Soliton: is the 1.9.1 mp server already running?
20100917 12:16:31< alink> I have an idea about a caching trick (thus using more memory) which seems to double rendering speed of complex (multi-layer) terrain. But my test was a bit artificial
20100917 12:16:54< Ivanovic> using more memory is not good...
20100917 12:17:03< alink> and that will not work when several layers are animated (unless we sync them)
20100917 12:20:05< alink> yes and no it was not that bad, probably depend of map and screen size, how it affects scrolling etc. and can be tuned
20100917 12:20:56< alink> can we assume a (even weak) correlation between screen size and memory size ?
20100917 12:21:46< alink> because old and portable box should have smaller screen
20100917 12:22:28< Ivanovic> no idea if we can assume this
20100917 12:22:40< Ivanovic> but i think most stuff that is in memory just depends on the map
20100917 12:22:48< Ivanovic> s/map/scenario
20100917 12:23:09< Ivanovic> that is: the whole WML stuff is in memory, as is all of the terrain stuff of the map
20100917 12:23:29< Ivanovic> (memory usage only increases over time, it tends not to decrease again when viewing a different area of the map)
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20100917 12:24:01< alink> yeah we need to improve the cache. I will try/need to do it for ToD stuff
20100917 12:24:33< alink> btw, did users already reported memory shortage ?
20100917 12:24:51< alink> in any version?
20100917 12:24:54< Ivanovic> is the image cache that we currently have still required when/if switching to opengl?
20100917 12:25:19< Ivanovic> alink: i had a memory prob with 1.9.0 on the pandora (impossible to start any game because of memory usage!), so i never released that one
20100917 12:25:40< alink> I mean on PC/MAC/Linux
20100917 12:26:11< Ivanovic> the pandora *is* linux
20100917 12:26:22< Ivanovic> ;)
20100917 12:26:46< alink> the current image cache will need full rewrite for opengl, and opengl will allow to use video memory
20100917 12:27:49< Ivanovic> feel free to assume that there is no dedicated video memory on embedded devices
20100917 12:27:51< Ivanovic> ;)
20100917 12:33:32< alink> I really should try some "wesnoth with opengl" stuff, I think and talk too often about it. At some point trying to write code will be more instructive
20100917 12:34:11< Ivanovic> alink: yeah, most likely
20100917 12:34:13< alink> but I fear some huge time sink preventing to work on any other more directly useful features
20100917 12:34:38< Ivanovic> it is a huge timesink, but IMO it is most likely worth the time
20100917 12:35:03< alink> also, there is no "just render this part with opengl"
20100917 12:35:18< alink> which make the transition very hard
20100917 12:35:30< teaser> Ivanovic, about 1.9.1 issues: selecting "2p - Elensfar Couryard" in the multiplayer creation view causes a segfault on my system, might be local, but worth a check before announcing
20100917 12:36:25< Ivanovic> teaser: works over here in german
20100917 12:37:01< Ivanovic> and in en_US, too (using default settings)
20100917 12:37:23< teaser> ok, then something local :)
20100917 12:37:28< Ivanovic> that is i started a local game (since the 1.9.1 mp server is not up yet)
20100917 12:37:36< teaser> mee too
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20100917 12:48:43< Ivanovic> 1.9.1 announcement: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31662
20100917 12:48:50-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 155 bugs, 296 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100917 12:50:21< Ivanovic> everyone: please feel free to read over it, look for errors/mistakes and fix them
20100917 12:50:36< Ivanovic> since noone added anything in RELEASE_NOTES i had to come up with some stuff myself...
20100917 12:55:55< Ivanovic> updated the frontpage, too
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20100917 13:02:24< Soliton> Ivanovic: 1.9.1 server is up.
20100917 13:04:03< alink> Ivanovic: "A rewrite of the engine to support OpenGL might be required so that calculations can be done by the GPU instead of the CPU" <-- better no write that in announcement, people will assume that we work on it
20100917 13:07:23< alink> Ivanovic: btw, you said "no dedicated video memory on embedded devices", but then does SDL is really slower than opengGL for pure blit (since it's mostly memory copy)
20100917 13:08:11< alink> the acceleration of alpha blending may help, but the RLE compression of SDL helps too
20100917 13:08:30< fendrin> alink: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=456319#p456319 Maybe TheBuzzSaw would be willing to make the gl port. It can be used for our 2d needs and in the case the wesnoth 3d plans are going to get anywhere anytime.
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20100917 13:12:44< alink> fendrin: well, I wait to see something more that one forum post with vague plans. To be honest I fear that he underestimates the "integration with current codebase" part
20100917 13:13:56< Ivanovic> alink: thebuzzsaw was already in here
20100917 13:14:07< Ivanovic> (at least if i remember things correctly)
20100917 13:14:10< alink> because, even if write an OpenGL engine rendering hexes and sprites is easy, rewriting the whole wesnoth rendering engine is more work
20100917 13:14:21< Ivanovic> that is: the port to opengl will take lots of time and work by >1 person
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20100917 13:15:07< Ivanovic> the reason why the opengl rendering engine should speed stuff up on embedded devices is that they got an additional chip for 3d graphics stuff
20100917 13:15:09< alink> "already in here" ? IRC? Then yes we talked here
20100917 13:15:12< Ivanovic> currently this one is unused
20100917 13:15:30< Ivanovic> so all work is done by the cpu resulting in some higher load
20100917 13:16:04< Ivanovic> with stuff done in opengl it would most likely still use the same memory, but the speed should be better since it is not only the cpu but cpu and gpu doing the work
20100917 13:17:30< alink> mmh yes that will help and it's true that some opengl features will simplify some things
20100917 13:17:34< Ivanovic> since a rewrite would also allow to eg change to sprite sheets memory usage should in fact go down with an opengl port (but not simply due to "it is opengl" but because other stuff changes)
20100917 13:18:19< Ivanovic> since the switch to spritesheets was one of the main ways to reduce the memory usage in the iphone port (though it is ugly as hell and not cleanly portable!)
20100917 13:18:32< fendrin> And if the gpu owns dedicated memory it may be possible to decrease the usage of main memory.
20100917 13:18:55< Ivanovic> btw i clearified the announcement regarding opengl and added that this was not yet started and it is not sure if/when it will happen
20100917 13:20:14< Ivanovic> alink: yeah, you talked to buzzthesaw already in this very irc chan some days ago
20100917 13:20:19< alink> hehe, I said better not mention it, but ok
20100917 13:21:01< alink> btw these days, I am less sure about the sprite sheets thing, at least on disk. Pack them on a texture at runtime is more complicated but will helps the transition and terrain stuff
20100917 13:21:57< Ivanovic> the main benefit of having them in a spritesheet on disc would be that it should save some space
20100917 13:22:27< alink> disk space
20100917 13:22:27< Ivanovic> since the overhead with blocksize of drives is less relevant and things should compress better
20100917 13:22:33< Ivanovic> yes, disc space
20100917 13:22:56< Ivanovic> i don't know if it would be more convenient for artists or not
20100917 13:23:07< Ivanovic> maybe thespaceinvader has some insight in this
20100917 13:23:19< alink> but I fear some memory cost (like always load all anims instead of just the ones needed)
20100917 13:23:40< Ivanovic> the problem would of course be that we got to define things in a good and usable way which is not a trival thing to do
20100917 13:24:10< alink> but maybe packing the frames of one anim would be an good intermediate
20100917 13:25:03< thespaceinvader> sprite sheets: I've never worked with them myself.  I don't have any particular objection to the idea, however, albeit I find it much easier to work with individual images, I understand that sprite sheets are something which could be created from individual frames at the compiling stage if necessary
20100917 13:25:25< thespaceinvader> and that that would be a useful way to save a little file size
20100917 13:25:46< zookeeper> alink, i've always been in favour of just packing each anim in a separate sheet
20100917 13:25:47< thespaceinvader> but that the current way the engine caches such things would mean that it would actually increase CPU usage
20100917 13:26:35< alink> I also wonder how to handles terrains which is probably the first thing to optimize both for memory and rendering
20100917 13:27:57< Ivanovic> hmm, yeah
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20100917 13:28:14< alink> I mean if we need some automated tool for terrain anyway, then we can just reuse it for units
20100917 13:29:19< freim> I have worked with sprite sheets in freeciv and find it more convenient
20100917 13:29:54< Ivanovic> freim: do you have some insight how they work there for terrains/transitions and units?
20100917 13:31:12< freim> not from a code pow
20100917 13:31:21< freim> pov*
20100917 13:31:31< Ivanovic> but from an artists point of view
20100917 13:31:44< Ivanovic> so that you can describe what you have to do to make eg a new terrain work
20100917 13:32:06< freim> you can organize it just as you want actually
20100917 13:32:19< freim> all the way from 1 image per file to as many as you like
20100917 13:32:36< freim> you have config files which refer to files and positions within them
20100917 13:32:44< Ivanovic> and how do you define terrains with transitions and the likes?
20100917 13:33:08< freim> there isn't transitions in freeciv in the same way as in wesnoth
20100917 13:33:30< freim> you make "full" tiles that you define how to interact with the rest
20100917 13:33:41< freim> look at a tileset like freeland for a huge tileset
20100917 13:34:57< freim> it has 1296 tiles for base terrain
20100917 13:35:22< alink> ak ok because some tilesets seems just to be two 640x480 pngs
20100917 13:35:36< Ivanovic> freim: got an url?
20100917 13:35:38< freim> they can be
20100917 13:36:18< freim> isometric, hex, square, different sizes, different number of tiles as long as you cover all base terrain with at least one variant
20100917 13:36:45< Ivanovic> bbs, updating the firmware in my router (will have a look at the wesnoth.org logs)
20100917 13:36:46< freim> Ivanovic: http://forum.freeciv.org/viewtopic.php?t=1648
20100917 13:37:14< freim> http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Editing_tilesets
20100917 13:37:20< freim> http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Tilesets
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20100917 13:43:55< Ivanovic> re
20100917 13:45:22< alink> ok freeciv seems to put terrain variation and transitions in one png by terrain type, this is probably good both for artists and rendering
20100917 13:45:44< alink> but we have much more terrain types
20100917 13:46:18< Ivanovic> and by far more transitions
20100917 13:47:15< freim> the number of tiles and transitions in wesnoth has outgrown the practical limits of the current system imo
20100917 13:47:43< freim> it's hard to get an overview anymore, and even harder to understand the layering
20100917 13:47:54< Ivanovic> alink: it might also be an idea to redo how terrains and transitions do
20100917 13:48:00< alink> freim: ok, you mean for artists 
20100917 13:48:10< freim> alink: yes
20100917 13:48:13< Ivanovic> s/do/do work
20100917 13:48:30< Ivanovic> that is: no idea what makes more sense there and *if* there is a good way to do so
20100917 13:48:41< freim> alink: and it also seem to cause performance issues
20100917 13:49:18< alink> Ivanovic: yeah let's redo everything at the same time ;)
20100917 13:49:35< alink> freim: seems ok for static stuff
20100917 13:49:42< Ivanovic> alink: ah, the idea is more: when redoing the render part we might directly want to *really* redo this area
20100917 13:50:56< alink> stacking too many layers has a cost but we may be able to cache these stack (that was the idea I mentioned few hours ago)
20100917 13:53:29< alink> Ivanovic: I believe that the only way to have one day an OpenGL change is to start smaller with someone writing something mostly compatible with current code, WML and arts
20100917 13:54:04< Ivanovic> yeah, that is most likely correct
20100917 13:54:06< alink> anything bigger is probably too much for one person
20100917 13:54:20< Ivanovic> (why, oh why do you have to destroy my dreams?!?)
20100917 13:54:30< Ivanovic> alink: the whole opengl port is more than one completely alone can manage
20100917 13:54:37< alink> and coordinating several devs on that is not simple
20100917 13:54:45< Ivanovic> it has to be kind of group effort to at least talk to people about stuff
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20100917 13:55:57< alink> Ivanovic: one thing that we can do is to make the current engine more adaptable to opengl by isolating SDL stuff and things like that
20100917 13:56:19< Ivanovic> alink: yeah, sounds reasonable as a "good thing to prepare" part
20100917 13:58:11< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: No idea why you think that it should be group effort. The harder a programming task is the less doable for groups it becomes :P
20100917 13:58:22< AI0867> zookeeper: yes, [move_units_fake] is my work. My original intent was just to have a group of units move in formation, but it should be possible to rewrite it to play the animations at the same time, without changing the WML
20100917 13:58:43< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: some coordination is required to get an idea about the terrain or animation specialities
20100917 13:58:51< Ivanovic> or how stuff wires in with *no idea what*
20100917 13:59:15< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: that is why i mean with group efford, for some specific things you will have to talk to the respective devs that know an area best
20100917 13:59:33< loonycyborg> Yes. But that's only coordination..
20100917 13:59:47< CIA-35> fendrin * r46548 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/maps/Kalian.map: LoW: Update of the Kalian map.
20100917 14:00:11< loonycyborg> It's not like you can easily parallelize *all* work required..
20100917 14:00:26< Ivanovic> that is right, parallizing is almost impossible there
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20100917 14:10:17< zookeeper> AI0867, yeah, that's how i'd assumed it would work.
20100917 14:10:44< Ivanovic> regarding fake unit movement stuff:
20100917 14:10:52< Ivanovic> at the beginning of DM
20100917 14:10:58< Ivanovic> the mage with a halo is moved
20100917 14:11:10< Ivanovic> the halo stays at the point of origin in 1.9.1 while the unit image is moved
20100917 14:11:21< Ivanovic> can this bug be fixed somehow, should i report it in the tracker, ...?
20100917 14:12:16< zookeeper> as for the terrain system: would it be a good idea (for someone; i don't know if i'm qualified) to make an exact list of drawing methods we actually need in mainline? that is, a normal hex-shaped base tile, regular transition tiles, an overlay (villages, great tree), multihex base tile, multi-hex overlay (mountains), castles, ...
20100917 14:12:46< zookeeper> if we had an exact list of things we need, then rewriting the terrain graphics WML could even be a feasible task for someone who knows the current system
20100917 14:13:10< Ivanovic> zookeeper: hmm, i think such a list would at least not hurt
20100917 14:14:45< zookeeper> i mean, a few days back i added the new fake map edge terrain and i wrote a macro-less plain [terrain_graphics] tag for the base image. the usual method would have been to use a chain of macros that's probably five levels deep...
20100917 14:15:19< zookeeper> maybe it would indeed be possible to rewrite the heaviest parts in a much simpler and straightforward manner - i don't know, but it sounds like it might be possible
20100917 14:16:41< zookeeper> animated terrains, castles and some transition interactions are pretty much the only really complicated parts, everything else (base hex, basic transitions, overlays) is or at least ought to be really simple
20100917 14:16:45 * zookeeper is afk for a bit
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20100917 15:53:46< alink> hmm, noob question, but where are the geometric transformations in editor ?
20100917 15:54:09< alink> Like flip and rotations 
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20100917 15:56:42 * alink remember coding rotations (which was a bit tricky to code because of our weird coordinate system)
20100917 15:57:27< Ivanovic> alink: maybe you should ping ilor_ about this, he might know due to doing this stuff when reworking the editor
20100917 15:57:35< Ivanovic> (doing as in at least referencing)
20100917 15:57:37< fendrin> alink: I think those features have been removed. Which is a pitty. 
20100917 15:57:56< alink> yeah especially for symmetrical maps
20100917 15:58:05< fendrin> alink: Right
20100917 16:00:43< alink> ah there is hotkeys for this :-)
20100917 16:01:33< alink> but it would be better to copy them in the "edit" menu
20100917 16:01:47< alink> or add a new menu 
20100917 16:05:52< fendrin> alink: Are they applied to a selection or to the whole map?
20100917 16:06:14< alink> selection (which is more powerfull)
20100917 16:06:49< fendrin> alink: Then they belong into "edit" dynamically activated if the clipboard is filled.
20100917 16:06:52< alink> clipboard to be exact
20100917 16:07:33< alink> yes, indeed
20100917 16:23:13< Soliton> btw, as long as https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16618 is not getting fixed mp is pretty pointless since the server crashes every other time.
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20100917 17:13:40< eleazzaar> boucman: around?
20100917 17:14:13< boucman> yes, but I have no time this WE for looking at terrain macros if that's what you want :P
20100917 17:14:26< eleazzaar> a couple questions?
20100917 17:14:46< boucman> sure
20100917 17:15:07< eleazzaar> i'm reading http://wiki.wesnoth.org/TerrainMacrosWML
20100917 17:15:25< eleazzaar> and trying to make sense of it and the terrain-graphics.cfg
20100917 17:15:48< eleazzaar> i'm not sure i get what "FLAG" does
20100917 17:16:07< eleazzaar> and what exactly "transition3" or "transition2" does
20100917 17:16:46< boucman> k, i'll try to explain...
20100917 17:17:01< boucman> you know how we have two layers "base" and "overlay" ?
20100917 17:17:05< eleazzaar> yeah
20100917 17:17:35< eleazzaar> for instance-- if this helps
20100917 17:17:42< boucman> well, basically, flag tells the engine what layer we are on. If you set it to something else than base or overlay, you get a new layer
20100917 17:18:49< eleazzaar> so does "transition3" give you 3 new layers?
20100917 17:19:19< boucman> no, it gives you one new layer called transition3
20100917 17:19:43< alink> ? that's not how I see flag, flags are just named marks that terrain rules read and write on maps
20100917 17:19:50< boucman> I know it's used somewhere in terrain-graphics.cfg but I don't remember why... usually it's because you want it and also want normal transitions
20100917 17:20:03< eleazzaar> for instance:
20100917 17:20:11< eleazzaar> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_LF    (!,Rd,Rr*,Hh*,M*,Q*)           Rd                       -370   transition3   flat/desert-road}
20100917 17:20:12< eleazzaar> {TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L     Rd               (!,Rd,,W*,Ai,Q*)                   -371                 flat/desert-road}
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20100917 17:20:29< boucman> alink: that's what they are at the WML level, my explanation is how they are to be understood as macro parameters
20100917 17:20:33< alink> btw :layers show you the flags written on the current hex 
20100917 17:20:38< alink> boucman: ah, ok
20100917 17:20:56< eleazzaar> this bit of code allows the desert road to have transitions on the inside and outside
20100917 17:21:25< zookeeper> alink, what, there's such a feature? cool, i've totally missed it, even though it's been me who's requested it many times before :P
20100917 17:21:30< boucman> it basically means that those two rules are not mutually exclusive...
20100917 17:21:45< alink> zookeeper: and it was in 1.9.0 too
20100917 17:21:48< boucman> zookeeper: it hasn't been here for long iirc
20100917 17:22:21< eleazzaar> boucman: so do different "transition3" graphics interact?
20100917 17:22:46< boucman> no, they would exclude each otheres just like anonymous ones do
20100917 17:22:56< eleazzaar> would anything change if it was transition8?
20100917 17:23:12< zookeeper> IMO you can think of it like this: if there's already something drawn on a hex using flag foobar, then nothing else which uses the flag foobar gets drawn there
20100917 17:23:44< boucman> if this is the only rule using transition3, no... if there are other rules using transition3 and you don't change thoses other rules, the interaction between these rules would change
20100917 17:25:07 * eleazzaar is readjusting his understanding....
20100917 17:25:19< boucman> eleazzaar: I can explain why we use a non-default flag in your example a bit better...
20100917 17:26:09< boucman> by default, when a transition is added between two hex A and B, (let's say A is north of B) we mark A as having  a transition on its south side and B as having a transition on its north side
20100917 17:27:33< boucman> so if we only had the second rule, we would only see the rule applied once... by having the transition3 rule, we reapply the flat/desert-road transition, but with a different exclusivity flag, thus allowing it to be applied the other way round...
20100917 17:28:25< eleazzaar> so the "transition3" or "submerged_part" is an arbitrary lable?
20100917 17:28:31< boucman> yes
20100917 17:28:41< boucman> (forgot to mention that, sorry)
20100917 17:29:52< zookeeper> yeah, there's no hardcoded flag names at all AFAIK
20100917 17:30:30< eleazzaar> i've been making this stuff work far to much by brute force-- making changes, testing, more changes...
20100917 17:31:13< alink> zookeeper: the hardcoded off_map_rule use "base" flags :-(
20100917 17:31:13< eleazzaar> several important lightbulbs have gone on in my head in the last few minutes
20100917 17:31:21< boucman> eleazzaar: well, the macros for basic terrains and transitions is well understood, and bridges have been remade properly (not sure what exactly lurker wants for his new bridges, I havn't looked at it yet)
20100917 17:31:33< boucman> I do need to have a big look at castles and mountains, though
20100917 17:32:04< eleazzaar> mountain layering is still an issue
20100917 17:32:30< alink> zookeeper: which is sad because it builds a config object and parse it, we could as well read if from some cfg file
20100917 17:32:40< alink> s/if/it
20100917 17:32:54< boucman> alink: changing it would be cleaner, but not an emergency, I'd say..
20100917 17:33:26< alink> boucman: yeah, it will check that later when working on off-map border
20100917 17:33:45< eleazzaar> you've noticed the thread with all the minor terrain glitch screenshots?
20100917 17:34:03< boucman> I did, but as I said I had very little W time recently
20100917 17:34:23< eleazzaar> a lot of the mountains glitches are legit, but i have no clue how to fix them
20100917 17:34:54< eleazzaar> boucman: i dont' expect you to do anything about that thread per se
20100917 17:35:06< eleazzaar> mostly it's art issues
20100917 17:35:36< eleazzaar> or poster is being too picky issues
20100917 17:36:00< zookeeper> eleazzaar, i've fixed some similar ones before; you should be looking at the base= (pixel coordinates) in mountain.cfg most likely
20100917 17:36:16< CIA-35> alink * r46549 /trunk/src/ (editor/editor_controller.cpp editor/editor_main.hpp game.cpp): 
20100917 17:36:16< CIA-35> Allow to use F5 in editor mode (may ask to save maps before restart)
20100917 17:36:17< CIA-35> Working enough to be useful but still need to polish various things.
20100917 17:36:17< CIA-35> alink * r46550 /trunk/src/editor/ (editor_controller.cpp editor_controller.hpp): 
20100917 17:36:18< CIA-35> add a save_all_maps function in editor and call if before F5
20100917 17:36:18< CIA-35> a but annoying but currently needed to prevent to lose work
20100917 17:36:19< CIA-35> alink * r46551 /trunk/src/editor/ (editor_controller.cpp editor_controller.hpp editor_main.cpp): remove always null parameter
20100917 17:36:28< zookeeper> however, i can't say for sure whether it's possible to fix those glitches without re-cutting the mountains. maybe, maybe not.
20100917 17:36:28< alink> F5 in editor ^  should helps testing new terrain rules \o/ 
20100917 17:36:45< alink> (but still some annoying details about save handling)
20100917 17:36:48< zookeeper> s/mountain.cfg/mountains.cfg
20100917 17:36:52< zookeeper> yay
20100917 17:36:53< eleazzaar> **HURRAY**
20100917 17:37:02< boucman> yay
20100917 17:37:56< eleazzaar> that will seriously speed up my work by 15%- 33%
20100917 17:37:57< alink> yes I was trying to improve saving, but since it's already useful now, I prefered already commit it
20100917 17:38:07< eleazzaar> (depending on what kind of terrain i'm doing)
20100917 17:38:18< eleazzaar> re: F5
20100917 17:38:21< Ivanovic> boucman: have you read todays logs?
20100917 17:38:30< boucman> no, will do
20100917 17:38:58< boucman> should I just check for my name ?
20100917 17:39:08< Ivanovic> nah, you will want to read it in general
20100917 17:39:13< Ivanovic> talked about opengl stuff and the likes
20100917 17:39:19< boucman> k, thx
20100917 17:39:25< alink> mmh mouse stopped working :-/
20100917 17:39:25< Ivanovic> look close to lunchtime, ehm, breakfast time
20100917 17:39:39< Ivanovic> alink: have you gotten yourself a cat?
20100917 17:39:50< Ivanovic> ^^
20100917 17:40:35< alink> yes, but this time it was just my foot unplugging the cable :)
20100917 17:41:51< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46552 /trunk/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/images/units/owaec-lord.png: Fixed lvl3 Owaec's shadow.
20100917 17:50:57< alink> hmm about F5, I suppose that the ideal behavior for F5 is : save the map, reload wml data, reopen the map
20100917 17:51:55< alink> save the map is already in (to prevent to lose work) but ask you a name, which sometimes is annoying when you don't care about the map
20100917 17:52:28< alink> but for the moment you need to reload the map manually (which is annoying)
20100917 17:52:34< eleazzaar> save unamed maps as a temporary file?
20100917 17:53:54< alink> yes that is my plan, but I am a bit slowed down by the multiple windows system of the editor
20100917 17:54:52< alink> btw I added a save_all_maps function do we need it in "File" menu. Does map creators often open several maps ?
20100917 17:55:27< eleazzaar> i often do, but my usage may not be normal
20100917 17:56:45< alink> well, if our main terrain dev uses it, that's a reason good enough :)
20100917 17:57:30< alink> but maybe I should improve these quit dialog, which currently don't ask you if you want to save
20100917 17:58:10< alink> which is kind of dumb when you have several map open. It doesn't tell you which one is modified/not saved
20100917 17:58:24< eleazzaar> yeah, that is a problem
20100917 17:58:50< eleazzaar> away for a while..
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20100917 18:18:50< fendrin> eleazzaar: Please open HttT map named "21_Elven_Council.map". Several elvish keeps next to each other do trigger an artifact from the orcish keep on top of them.
20100917 18:19:10< fendrin> alink: Saving all maps at once is very useful.
20100917 18:21:32< CIA-35> fendrin * r46553 /trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/maps/ (20a_North_Elves.map 21_Elven_Council.map): HttT: Some simple map updates.
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20100917 18:49:43< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46554 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/images/misc/: Removed a now useless and unused image.
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20100917 19:19:06< eleazzaar> fendrin: thanks
20100917 19:20:03< fendrin> eleazzaar: There is another issue, terrain related but most likely "only" a coding issue.
20100917 19:20:23< CIA-35> alink * r46555 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 
20100917 19:20:23< CIA-35> Add "Save All Maps" in editor "File" menu and a new hotkey (default: alt+s)
20100917 19:20:23< CIA-35> Quickly show all maps when saving, not wanted but provide some UI feedback.
20100917 19:20:29 * eleazzaar listens
20100917 19:21:21< fendrin> When doing underground maps there is the problem for example, that any kind of water can be crossed by flying units much faster than the rest of the caves. 
20100917 19:21:54< fendrin> We have many underground maps that feature some of the overground terrain, but the gameplay does not work for them.
20100917 19:22:22< eleazzaar> that depends on what you think gameplay should be
20100917 19:22:43< eleazzaar> granted the way caves work is sorta kludgy
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20100917 19:28:13< CIA-35> fendrin * r46556 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (12 files in 3 dirs): LoW: Many multiplayer related changes.
20100917 19:42:14< CIA-35> fendrin * r46557 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg utils/low-macros.cfg): LoW: Fixed some bugs with multiplayer macros and preprocessor stuff.
20100917 19:43:46< CIA-35> fendrin * r46558 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (12 files in 6 dirs): Map updates, mostly of cosmetic nature only.
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20100917 19:53:15< eleazzaar> zookeeper: fendrin am i missing something or is the sunken castle keep and the swamp castle keep exactly the same as the ruined castle keep?
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20100917 19:54:51< CIA-35> fendrin * r46559 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Added the latest LoW changes.
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20100917 19:55:03< eleazzaar> erg
20100917 19:55:14< eleazzaar> there are graphics for a sunken keep but they are not used
20100917 19:55:24< eleazzaar> nor were used in 1.8
20100917 19:56:24< eleazzaar> apparently that tricky WML never worked right
20100917 19:56:55< eleazzaar> or maybe the graphics were confusing
20100917 19:59:55< fendrin> eleazzaar: It's hard to keep the overview with so many files per directory. 
20100917 20:00:34< Gambit> [13:38:36] -*- SpoOkyMagician installs wesnoth 1.9.1
20100917 20:00:34< Gambit> [13:42:59] <SpoOkyMagician> hm the menu thing looks a bit better.
20100917 20:00:45< Gambit> :D
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20100917 20:04:09< Gambit> Ivanovic: The changelog links on the homepage don't actually go to the changelogs
20100917 20:05:34-!- wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20100917 20:05:35< alink> hum, gna changed something, all changelogs link of all realease news do that now
20100917 20:06:28< alink> :-/
20100917 20:09:06< Ivanovic> not today, am off for the evening
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20100917 20:10:50< alink> hehe, funny to point to the changelogs of the changelogs :-)
20100917 20:11:40< alink> is the most edited file?
20100917 20:11:50< zookeeper> eleazzaar, good question; i think they have worked at some point
20100917 20:11:52< alink> s/is/is it
20100917 20:12:43< eleazzaar> zookeeper: i don't remember them
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20100917 20:12:58< eleazzaar> but off the cuff i wonder if they were a good idea
20100917 20:13:20< eleazzaar> without the keep being raised, it could be hard to tell the keep from the castle
20100917 20:13:26< dipseydoodle> hello all
20100917 20:14:04< alink> hi dipseydoodle
20100917 20:14:09< Gambit> alink: Yo dawg. I heard you liked changelogs, so I linked your changelog to a changelog of your changelog so you can log your changes while you log your changes.
20100917 20:14:54-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100917 20:15:09< dipseydoodle> hi... hey do you know if any of the gus from the wesnoth 3d descussion ever meet here? I haven't been on for a while.
20100917 20:15:14< alink> Gambit: :)
20100917 20:15:27< zookeeper> eleazzaar, well they do seem to work somewhat since i see the ripples around the towers
20100917 20:15:31< dipseydoodle> oops guys
20100917 20:15:36< dipseydoodle> I mean guys
20100917 20:15:38< Gambit> dipseydoodle: The experimental corner also has its own channel :)
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20100917 20:15:54< dipseydoodle> I thought this was it.... sorry
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20100917 20:16:32< dipseydoodle> Like I said I haven't been on for I while, and saw  no link to the experimental chat.
20100917 20:16:39< eleazzaar> zookeeper: ah i see they need to be surrounded by water
20100917 20:16:39< fendrin> hi Sapient
20100917 20:16:53< Sapient> yo fendrin
20100917 20:17:10< eleazzaar> zookeeper: still it looks like swamp and sunken keep are identical
20100917 20:17:20< zookeeper> eleazzaar, yeah. however, there's some nasty hard edges at the waterline.
20100917 20:18:05< zookeeper> eleazzaar, yes, might be that the swamp version was added only for terrain aliasing purposes
20100917 20:19:53< eleazzaar> fendrin: fixed that elvish keep glitch
20100917 20:20:38< CIA-35> eleazar * r46560 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: fixed some castle and keep mixing glitches, and generally cleaned up terrain-graphics.cfg to make it more readable.
20100917 20:20:40< zookeeper> you'll also get very interesting effects if you draw a big area of sunken keep
20100917 20:21:20< anonymissimus> anyone know how to specify the complement of an exact sequence of characters in a string pattern ? it's for lua but possibly in other languages it's similar
20100917 20:21:35< eleazzaar> yeah, i'm afraid i caused that, zookeeper but i can't figure out how
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20100917 20:24:48< zookeeper> fendrin, did your latest campaign map updates only touch castles, or something else too?
20100917 20:25:33< zookeeper> hrhm...
20100917 20:25:50< zookeeper> eleazzaar, the dwarvish castle is broken, it's using the ruined castle walls
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20100917 20:26:34< zookeeper> and multiple orcish forts together cause sand castle walls to appear in the middle
20100917 20:26:42< zookeeper> i think some of those changes you made are broken :P
20100917 20:26:59< eleazzaar> zookeeper: do you have my commit of 6 min ago?
20100917 20:27:23< zookeeper> yes
20100917 20:27:34< zookeeper> in fact most of the keeps seem broken
20100917 20:28:13< Soliton> anonymissimus: is there some standard meaning of "string pattern"?
20100917 20:28:22< zookeeper> at least elvish, orcish and sand
20100917 20:28:30< Soliton> anonymissimus: do you mean regular expressions?
20100917 20:28:41< anonymissimus> yes
20100917 20:28:48< anonymissimus> http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#5.4
20100917 20:29:18< eleazzaar> zookeeper:  keeps do not combine
20100917 20:29:52< zookeeper> eleazzaar, but they ought to combine with themselves
20100917 20:29:52< eleazzaar> i see messed up dwarvish castle, and messed up ruined keep, but not those others
20100917 20:30:04< Gambit> Soliton: strange regular expressions that don't match anything else in any other language (AFAIK) :)
20100917 20:30:16< zookeeper> if you can place three adjacent orcish keeps and see nothing wrong, you must have some uncommitted changes
20100917 20:34:05< Soliton> Gambit: seems you're right. it's clearly not regular expressions.
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20100917 20:34:58< anonymissimus> ? It's quite similar at least
20100917 20:35:09< anonymissimus> the logic of it at least
20100917 20:35:15< Gambit> Not really
20100917 20:35:20< CIA-35> eleazar * r46561 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: fixed a couple other multi-castle glitches.
20100917 20:35:57< Soliton> anyhow, the complement of a string would be [^s][^t][^r][^i][^n][^g] FSVO complement.
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20100917 20:40:24< zookeeper> eleazzaar, ok, that seems to fix them
20100917 20:40:40< eleazzaar> except the sunken keep
20100917 20:42:30< CIA-35> eleazar * r46562 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: fixed a couple other multi-castle glitches -- again..
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20100917 20:43:32< mordante> servus
20100917 20:44:03< mordante> shadowmaster, I keep track of my bugs, triaged some last week, only missed that one ;-)
20100917 20:52:51< CIA-35> eleazar * r46563 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: reverted to the traditional and less obvious failure of the sunken keep to combine properly with non-sunken castles.
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20100917 20:56:21< CIA-35> alink * r46564 /trunk/src/editor/ (editor_controller.cpp editor_controller.hpp): 
20100917 20:56:21< CIA-35> Improve usability of F5 in editor.
20100917 20:56:21< CIA-35> Now auto save all opened maps and reopen them after the cache reloading.
20100917 20:56:21< CIA-35> Note that, if not named yet, it names them window_N, to prevent interupting save dialogs
20100917 20:56:21< CIA-35> (where window_0 is the first one, etc.. as in editor menu)
20100917 20:56:29< alink> ^aah much more pleasant to use :-)
20100917 20:56:46 * eleazzaar cheers
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20100917 20:58:20< alink> All works fine here, but could use some testing when doing weird actions
20100917 21:05:53< Soliton> do you lose undos when reloading?
20100917 21:06:29< mordante> Ivanovic, indeed OGL would be nice, only we just need somebody who wants to work on it
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20100917 21:10:53< CIA-35> alink * r46565 /trunk/src/preferences_display.cpp: 
20100917 21:10:53< CIA-35> Give more space to hotkey list (but dialog has same size)
20100917 21:10:53< CIA-35> This fix unreadable hotkeys in editor in English, but problem may still be there for verbose language
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20100917 21:15:51< CIA-35> mordante * r46566 /trunk/src/ (display.cpp display.hpp): 
20100917 21:15:51< CIA-35> Pass parameter by const ref instead of const value.
20100917 21:15:51< CIA-35> Issue found by cppcheck.
20100917 21:16:03< CIA-35> mordante * r46567 /trunk/src/display.hpp: 
20100917 21:16:03< CIA-35> Pass parameter by const ref instead of const value.
20100917 21:16:03< CIA-35> Issue found by cppcheck.
20100917 21:16:22< CIA-35> mordante * r46568 /trunk/src/display.cpp: Initialize all members.
20100917 21:16:23< CIA-35> mordante * r46569 /trunk/src/play_controller.cpp: Initialize all members.
20100917 21:16:30-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20100917 21:22:16< alink> Soliton: yes you lose everyting not saveable: it just saves maps, quit editor, reload wml data, reopen editor, reopen saved maps
20100917 21:23:04< alink> but I was thinking saving some details like view position
20100917 21:23:57< alink> undo is probably too complicated to worth the trouble
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20100917 21:25:21< Soliton> sure, but it should probably be noted in some dialog.
20100917 21:26:39< alink> well, I tried to kill dialog, because save dialogs where annoying
20100917 21:26:48< alink> *were
20100917 21:27:14< alink> but it's common to lose undo for this kind of things, I think
20100917 21:27:42< alink> my text editor loses them after F5
20100917 21:29:11-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100917 21:29:20< alink> Also, in theory, you can modify terrain.cfg during the F5 operation, so the content of undo may become wrong
20100917 21:32:49< CIA-35> mordante * r46570 /trunk/ (changelog src/gui/dialogs/title_screen.cpp): 
20100917 21:32:49< CIA-35> Fixed the addon dialog to show the last host again.
20100917 21:32:49< CIA-35> Issue spotted by Ivanovic.
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20100917 21:36:48< mordante> I'm off bye
20100917 21:37:12< alink> bye mordante
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20100917 21:39:57< shadowmaster> eleazzaar: btw, I haven't forgotten your editor_name= FR, and I was working last night on it.
20100917 21:40:15< shadowmaster> except that I discovered I needed to rethink my direction so I left that part for today
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20100917 21:53:46< TheBuzzSaw> There is too much content for my SVN checkout to handle. Would someone mind doing a guest SVN checkout, zipping it up, and sending me the file? (Dropbox is a good way.) :P
20100917 21:53:50< TheBuzzSaw> Then I can just run SVN updates on it
20100917 21:54:11< zookeeper> which directory did you try to checkout?
20100917 21:54:15< TheBuzzSaw> trunk
20100917 21:54:15< zookeeper> you only need trunk, not the entire repo
20100917 21:54:19< zookeeper> ah, ok, nevermind then
20100917 21:54:24< TheBuzzSaw> My Internet is weak
20100917 21:54:30< TheBuzzSaw> I got pretty far today
20100917 21:54:52< TheBuzzSaw> got to 192 MB
20100917 21:56:36< zookeeper> well, how would it be easier to download one big archive containing a checkout?
20100917 21:57:37< TheBuzzSaw> Because I stop/resume a singular download to fix it
20100917 21:57:40< TheBuzzSaw> and eventually reach the end
20100917 21:57:56< TheBuzzSaw> I can't do ANYTHING when SVN just dies out. It continues to "check out", but I check my network usage: it flatlines at 0
20100917 21:58:16< TheBuzzSaw> stays stuck on one file
20100917 21:58:31< zookeeper> surely you can stop it and restart and it'll resume? sounds like a horribly crappy client otherwise.
20100917 21:58:45< TheBuzzSaw> It's just the command-line client
20100917 21:58:55< TheBuzzSaw> even the svn cleanup fails
20100917 22:00:59< zookeeper> oh, well, sounds crappy indeed. i don't know anything about that though.
20100917 22:01:35< TheBuzzSaw> Fortunately, I will graduate and move in a few months.
20100917 22:01:40< loonycyborg> svn definitely can recover from disconnections.
20100917 22:01:46< TheBuzzSaw> can't wait to have my own fast net connection
20100917 22:02:31< loonycyborg> It can't resume partially downloaded files though.
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20100917 22:19:29< zookeeper> alink, does the variations= key in [image] do anything yet?
20100917 22:21:46< alink> yes, it's currently used to reduces a lot the number of [terrain_graphics] rules
20100917 22:22:35< alink> but only works for equiprobable stuff for now
20100917 22:23:03< alink> I still need to add my frequency idea there
20100917 22:24:18< zookeeper> alink, hmh, i just can't get it to work then
20100917 22:24:26< alink> note that it's used with the "name=foo-@V-bar" syntax
20100917 22:24:47< alink> replacing @V by each variation
20100917 22:25:01< alink> and variations are separated by ';'
20100917 22:25:05< zookeeper> oh, right, i didn't have that bit
20100917 22:25:07 * zookeeper tries
20100917 22:26:40< zookeeper> alink, ok, it works. great feature :)
20100917 22:27:37< alink> yes I am happy about how it reduces WML data (after preprocessing)
20100917 22:28:05< alink> IIRC it made cache several times faster to build
20100917 22:28:40< alink> it's the kind of new syntax that I want to add to replace what we currently do with macros
20100917 22:30:30< zookeeper> yeah, well, i just started to try to write a couple of terrain macros in a clean way to see what i can come up with
20100917 22:31:08< zookeeper> so instead of having a macro call a macro call a macro call a macro call a macro call a macro, i could just...make one macro which has understandable contents
20100917 22:31:19< zookeeper> i started by making one for forests, seems to work just fine now
20100917 22:31:37< alink> yes I am all for that
20100917 22:32:02< alink> btw I said 'only equiprobable' but you can use repetition like "A;A;A;B" to get 75% / 25%
20100917 22:34:25< zookeeper> oh, cool
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20100917 23:31:57< fendrin> zookeeper: I have updated some maps in many mainline campaigns. Mostly just put in new terrain, no big things.
20100917 23:37:43< zookeeper> fendrin, umm, yes, that goes without saying
20100917 23:38:27< fendrin> zookeeper: Sorry, I don't get your line. Shall I revert the change?
20100917 23:40:00< zookeeper> no, i just wanted to know what you changed so i know if i want to painstakingly wade through the diffs
20100917 23:40:38< fendrin> zookeeper: In winter maps, I made the castles all winter which hadn't had winter graphics before for example.
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--- Log closed Sat Sep 18 00:00:47 2010