--- Log opened Tue Sep 21 00:00:06 2010
20100921 00:00:19< Ivanovic> especially since many people seem to have believed it
20100921 00:00:40< SpoOkyMagician> heh
20100921 00:00:48< Mica> What was it?
20100921 00:01:06< SpoOkyMagician> next year if you plan to release in april 1st... wait 1 day... lol
20100921 00:01:11< Ivanovic> just search for "april" in the forum topics
20100921 00:01:31< Ivanovic> was about RNG stuff
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20100921 00:05:49< Mica> These people must not know Dave
20100921 00:05:54< Mica> To have believed it
20100921 00:06:20< Ivanovic> the post *was* from dave!
20100921 00:06:29< Mica> I know
20100921 00:06:36< Mica> But Dave would never do that for real
20100921 00:06:37< Ivanovic> read it (and the resulting poll) to get a *good* lough
20100921 00:06:45< Mica> He loves the current RNG way too much xD
20100921 00:12:59< Mica> I mean come on. Dave would never make people pay and he'd never change the RNG. It's just.. Not Dave. xD
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20100921 01:13:41< isionous> is there any document that describes the events that go on to decide the random numbers that determine if an attack succeeds in a network game?
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20100921 01:18:22< ancestral> isionous: I remember reading about this
20100921 01:18:42< ancestral> in chat here like two months ago
20100921 01:20:36< isionous> ancestral, I'm guessing there's some IRC channel log that is searchable
20100921 01:22:16< isionous> or at least: http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/
20100921 01:22:40< isionous> which is archived by day and not searchable as far as I can tell
20100921 01:23:01< isionous> ... might have to use wget --recursive and do some grepping
20100921 01:23:02< ancestral> Yeah, lemme search through my own logs
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20100921 01:24:15< isionous> ancestral, that's very kind of you; thank you
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20100921 01:27:12< ancestral> isionous: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=23905&start=30
20100921 01:29:06< isionous> ancestral, thank you, I will look at that with great interest
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20100921 01:30:27< ancestral> isionous: That doesn't really say anything about the steps, but that in 1.7.3 they moved the generation to server-side
20100921 01:31:18< ancestral> I defer to the devs to elaborate if needed :)
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20100921 01:31:30< isionous> ancestral, if it helps me find and/or understand the relevant source code faster than otherwise, I consider your link to be helpful
20100921 01:31:52< ancestral> That, hopefully, a dev here can help you with
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20100921 01:32:48< isionous> ancestral, ah, yes, I might question one of them after some poking around
20100921 01:42:41< AI0867> wesbot: topic
20100921 01:42:43-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 160 bugs, 297 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100921 04:59:18 * TheBuzzSaw shines a light on shadowmaster.
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20100921 05:19:41< un214> I'm a 5 star programmer!
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20100921 05:38:44< FAAB1> lua question: I am trying to execute wesnoth.get_units({side=2, hitpoints >= 5}) and got an error "attempt to compare number with nil"
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20100921 05:39:37< FAAB1> while if I type local v=wesnoth.get_units({side=2}); print(v.hitpoints), I got 41
20100921 05:40:20< FAAB1> local v=wesnoth.get_units({side=2})[1]
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20100921 06:14:38< FAAB1> mmm, that one works: lua local v =wesnoth.get_units({side =2, hitpoints=41 })[1]; print(v.name)
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20100921 06:26:36< shadowm_tty> top
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20100921 06:56:36< silene> FAAB1: {a>=b} is the same as {[1]=(a>=b)}, you are comparing two things and then putting the result in the firrst cell of the table; and since one of the things is null (the global variable "hitpoints"), it fails
20100921 06:57:07< silene> (and even if it wasn't nil, it would still not to what you expect to do)
20100921 06:58:34< FAAB1> silene: should I use the lua_function= for that test then ?
20100921 06:59:30< silene> yes; either that or you could just test the unit hitpoints in the following loop
20100921 07:01:37< FAAB1> do you mean get all the units and add a loop to check the hitpoints right after ?
20100921 07:04:53< silene> not "add a loop", you should already have a loop since get_units return a set of units; then just add a test to the existing loop
20100921 07:08:33< FAAB1> silene: I see. Thanks a lot.
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20100921 08:41:31< FAAB1> lui question: how can I use the example http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML:Variables#helper.child_range to get all the specials of the attacks of a unit ?
20100921 08:58:38< silene> two nested loops, one over attacks, the other over specials
20100921 09:00:26< FAAB1> when I try to take att.__cfg as parameter of the second call to helper.child_range() it says that is nil
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20100921 09:02:17< silene> FAAB1: yes, att is a plain table, so not att.__cfg, just att
20100921 09:03:03< silene> u was not a table but a unit proxy, so it first had to be translated to a table by reading __cfg
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20100921 10:17:59< Ivanovic> moin
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20100921 10:42:31< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46643 /branches/1.8/ (5 files in 3 dirs): updated Dutch, Japanese and Slovak translation
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20100921 10:42:41< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46642 /trunk/ (9 files in 5 dirs): updated Dutch, Japanese and Slovak translation
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20100921 11:39:57-!- fabi is now known as fendrin
20100921 11:40:09< fendrin> wesbot: seen sapient?
20100921 11:40:10< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick Sapient last spoke 3d 15h ago.  3d 14h ago person left:
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20100921 11:45:01< scibotic> Hi zookeeper.
20100921 11:45:20< scibotic> I'm reading through the storyline now.
20100921 11:57:33< zookeeper> hello
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20100921 12:02:24< scibotic> What does Konrad II look like?
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20100921 12:19:41< scibotic> I mean, that is the protagonist from Heir to the Throne right?
20100921 12:35:09< zookeeper> no no
20100921 12:35:23< zookeeper> give me a sec..
20100921 12:36:11< zookeeper> well, his portrait is the only depiction of him
20100921 12:36:32< zookeeper> data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/images/portraits/konrad_II.png
20100921 12:38:28< scibotic> That reminds me, downloading wesnoth. :/
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20100921 14:20:57< scibotic> Are those portraits the only renditions I really need to reference?
20100921 14:25:10< zookeeper> scibotic, yes, as long as they otherwise fit in with the established style (in terms of technology, armour, etc)
20100921 14:25:32< zookeeper> that is, take a look at especially the core loyalist human portraits
20100921 14:28:56< scibotic> Okay.  :)
20100921 14:29:19< scibotic> God damn twitter virus. D:
20100921 14:42:04< scibotic> Uses javascript mouse-over code to post itself to your account.
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20100921 15:24:45< zookeeper> eleazzaar, ok, i've looked into drawing a couple of trees between small forests and i've got it all working, but i'm still not sure if it's worth the trouble; only the pine forest seems to have big gaps between its small tiles, so it's probably easiest to fix it by just adding a few more trees to them.
20100921 15:34:24< zookeeper> if we wanted to draw a special little tile, consisting of a couple of trees, between small forests, then that'd require 3 images (one between nw-se, n-s and ne-sw)
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20100921 16:53:40< eleazzaar> Soliton: followup:  can you craft a query to find out how often "Qlf" is included within .CFG files?  That would distinguish between normal use and the moving lava-flow use zookeeper expects.
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20100921 17:10:05< zookeeper> eleazzaar, any opinion on the small forest stuff?
20100921 17:15:06< Soliton> eleazzaar: 16 times
20100921 17:18:47< zookeeper> and, again, there's two mainline campaign scenarios which need it too, although they don't use it atm because they're old and crappy and in need of a serious rewrite ;)
20100921 17:19:54< zookeeper> (for the same reason some UMC might also still use Ql instead of Qlf)
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20100921 19:01:54< anonymissimus> wesbot: seen timotei
20100921 19:01:54< wesbot> anonymissimus: The person with the nick timotei last spoke 2d 4h ago.  2d 1h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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20100921 19:41:33< eleazzaar> zookeeper: i have no objection to your small forest plan
20100921 19:41:45< eleazzaar> pine is the worse example
20100921 19:42:07< eleazzaar> but i haven't examined things carefully enough to see if there might be another way to do it
20100921 19:42:15< eleazzaar> using existing macros
20100921 19:42:35< eleazzaar> your method i think would have more visual variety
20100921 19:42:53< eleazzaar> i think it could be useful for some of the other forest types
20100921 19:45:25< zookeeper> eleazzaar, so you think other forest types than non-snowy pines actually exhibit the problem?
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20100921 19:58:34< zookeeper> esr, that was a pretty long reboot.
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20100921 19:59:17< esr> zookeeper: Huh?  I came back - I did the text merge johndh was asking for.
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20100921 20:02:02< zookeeper> esr, uh, also about 36 hours ago you told scibotic you'd reboot and come back :p
20100921 20:02:57< esr> Oh, crab.  Git distracted by something, doubtless.  Did you give him enough work to make him happy?
20100921 20:04:10< zookeeper> yeah, he's gotten to work on EI story images now
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20100921 20:15:38-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 161 bugs, 297 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100921 20:34:23< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46644 /trunk/data/core/ (terrain-graphics/new-macros.cfg terrain-graphics.cfg): Added a new file containing my WIP terrain graphics macros, and converted forest terrains to use one of them.
20100921 20:35:00< zookeeper> ^ if that breaks anything regarding the forests, please say so, i didn't find anything.
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20100921 20:39:09< zookeeper> actually these are _very_ similar to the old macros in 1.8 and before, but i guess i'll still rather rewrite things than try to re-introduce the old ones as is.
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20100921 20:46:48< anonymissimus> esr: around ?
20100921 20:47:21< esr> anonymissimus: Yes.
20100921 20:47:26< anonymissimus> is the --refcount=0 stuff with wmlscope supposed to work correctly ? (on Linux at least?)
20100921 20:48:24< anonymissimus> just want to know whether it's me or a bug; for umc it would be helpful to know whether I have e.g. unused utils
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20100921 20:53:17< esr> anonymissimus: It worked last time I ran it.  There's apparently an issue with Windows MD% being broken that screws up duplicate detection.
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20100921 22:32:47< eleazzaar> zookeeper: looks like replacing the old Qlf graphics was the right way to go, since in the majority of 1.8 maps it's just an ordinary terrain.
20100921 22:33:48< eleazzaar> the question remains weather to to make UMCs use a custom terrain with old graphics when they want above ground flowing lava
20100921 22:34:34< eleazzaar> or to include the old graphics as a third terrain
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20100921 22:37:03< Soliton> the majority of maps use ordinary terrain. no suprises there.
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20100921 22:39:14< eleazzaar> well, it's so ugly and inferior to the lava chasm -- that it was conceivable that it was mostly used for something special
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20100921 22:53:36< zookeeper> eleazzaar, "it's just an ordinary terrain" means what?
20100921 22:54:13< zookeeper> as i said i'd very much like the old-style lava as an option so i don't have to add it as a custom terrain to two campaigns
20100921 22:54:19< eleazzaar> it's not uses as some special encroaching lava as time passes
20100921 22:55:00< zookeeper> <zookeeper> and, again, there's two mainline campaign scenarios which need it too, although they don't use it atm because they're old and crappy and in need of a serious rewrite ;)
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20100921 22:55:52< eleazzaar> if i understand you, zookeeper those two scenarios don't actually use Qfl
20100921 22:55:58< zookeeper> the only reason it's not used is because Ql used to be the old-style lava and once it was changed to the lava chasm and the old style lava was added in as Qlf, the old uses weren't updated
20100921 22:56:11< zookeeper> yes, they don't, but they should
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20100921 22:57:49< eleazzaar> is it that much of a pain to add a custom terrain?  I really don't want to clutter up the editor pallete with a 3rd type of lava that's really inferior
20100921 22:58:38< eleazzaar> if someone made it good-looking that would be different
20100921 23:02:28< zookeeper> well, sure it's pretty annoying to duplicate stuff across several campaigns. and also, since i don't see any reason to not have it in core besides the fact that you don't like it, it seems very likely to find its way back to core again if you become more inactive again at some point
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20100921 23:17:32< CIA-35> soliton * r46645 /branches/1.8/src/about.cpp: fixed doubling of non-campaign about entries; fixes bug #16737: Contributors string is repeated twice
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20100921 23:19:45< zookeeper> hi, boucman
20100921 23:20:00< boucman> hey zookeeper
20100921 23:20:02< boucman> hey all
20100921 23:20:18< zookeeper> i had one terrain graphics engine question, but it's a bit complicated to describe..
20100921 23:20:50< boucman> i'll be here for ~30', will that be enough ?
20100921 23:21:00< zookeeper> maybe ;)
20100921 23:21:18< boucman> :)
20100921 23:22:22< zookeeper> ok, can you look at internal-corners.cfg for example?
20100921 23:22:36< zookeeper> and the map= there
20100921 23:23:14< boucman> yup, i'm there..
20100921 23:24:02< zookeeper> ok, now, the image drawn on the gamemap gets drawn relative to the top left hex of that map=
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20100921 23:24:54< zookeeper> however, when the rule is rotated, the image still always gets drawn relative to a top left hex, even though that hex isn't really part of the rule
20100921 23:25:08< zookeeper> does that make sense? it's hard to describe but i'll try harder if necessary ;)
20100921 23:25:22< boucman> your question is relative to the base= parameter , iiuc
20100921 23:25:49< boucman> gimme a sec to understand completely, but I have the gist of it
20100921 23:26:34< zookeeper> if i use this map, then an image which encompasses those three hexes gets drawn right on the gamemap:
20100921 23:26:34< boucman> hmm, ok, what is the question exactly ? :)
20100921 23:26:34< zookeeper> 2
20100921 23:26:35< zookeeper> ,  3
20100921 23:26:35< zookeeper> 1
20100921 23:27:25< zookeeper> however, if the rule is this, the image needs to actually encompass four hexes, the "extra" one being added to the top left:
20100921 23:27:25< zookeeper> ,  2
20100921 23:27:25< zookeeper> 3
20100921 23:27:25< zookeeper> ,  1
20100921 23:27:58< zookeeper> that is, with that latter rule, the image isn't aligned to the top left of the imaginary rectangle covered by those three hexes
20100921 23:28:16< zookeeper> ...but instead, it's aligned to the hex that's northwest of "2"
20100921 23:28:29< zookeeper> (the top left corner of that hex, that is)
20100921 23:28:42< zookeeper> make any more sense now? :P
20100921 23:30:47< zookeeper> now, i found it slightly odd that it'd work like that. the intuitive method would be that the image is always drawn relative to the imaginary rectangle covered by the rule
20100921 23:31:59< boucman> zookeeper: I have to admit i didn't go deep into this rule, I think the logic is more that we "rotate around" the center= spot
20100921 23:32:13< zookeeper> AFAICT, that is also the reason why the images for castle walls need to come in many different sizes; as the 3-hex map= for a corner rule is rotated, the image gets drawn relative to a different location, which means the images need extra padding, which is kinda odd
20100921 23:32:14< boucman> independently of what the map= specifies
20100921 23:32:58< zookeeper> no, i'm pretty sure that center= only deals with offsetting the image
20100921 23:33:01< boucman> I havn't looked at castles, I did the easy bit first, since I had all the macro to reverse engineer
20100921 23:33:24< boucman> ok, i'll reread what you say, i'm not that clear obviously
20100921 23:34:12< zookeeper> i think i managed to figure out today how it all works, but it's so bloody hard to explain, especially in english ;)
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20100921 23:35:39< boucman> ok, I understand your question (I think)
20100921 23:36:22< boucman> the thing is that it's not drawn relative to the top left hex of the rule, but in the top left hex of a rectangle needed to include the whole rule...
20100921 23:36:37< boucman> which is the invisible fourth hex on your second rule
20100921 23:36:48< zookeeper> yeah
20100921 23:37:43< boucman> so i'm not sure what your actual question was, but I can confirm that's how it works... it's the encompassing rectangle that counts
20100921 23:39:38< zookeeper> just to clarify: you agree that the image gets drawn relative to the top left corner of the top left hex of the rectangle which encompasses the rule, even if that hex isn't itself wholly encompassed by the rule?
20100921 23:40:52< boucman> yes (assuming we skip the very small chunk due to the fact that you can't cover hexes with rectangles, but I think you thought it that way)
20100921 23:41:20< zookeeper> ok, i guess my question is whether it'd make sense to change it so that the image would get drawn relative to the top left of the rectangle which encompasses the rule. i find the current behaviour pretty confusing and i don't see any real non-technical reason for it either.
20100921 23:41:48< zookeeper> i mean of course we'd change it gradually, since changing it just like that would break all the current castle/chasm/etc images
20100921 23:43:14< boucman> I think there is a good reason for the way it works... in particular it's hard to define where the corner is in all cases...
20100921 23:43:19< boucman> ,1
20100921 23:43:21< boucman> 2
20100921 23:43:47< boucman> where is the point ? upper left of 1 or upper left of 2 ?
20100921 23:43:54< zookeeper> well, since images are rectangular, isn't it natural that the corner is at the top left of the rectangle which encompasses the rule?
20100921 23:44:17< zookeeper> it'd be at x=leftof2 y=topof1
20100921 23:44:31< boucman> k...
20100921 23:45:19< boucman> ok, I'm not sure it's as simple as it seems code-wise (no idea how this would interact with rotations for example) but i'm not against in in principle...
20100921 23:45:30< zookeeper> it's not really a problem that you can't write rules like that and have it work as you'd expect, but i think it is a problem that it happens automatically when you use rotations
20100921 23:46:16< zookeeper> i found it out today the hard way; i was trying to write a simple rule like this:
20100921 23:46:17< zookeeper> 1
20100921 23:46:17< zookeeper> ,  2"
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20100921 23:46:47< zookeeper> and of course it fell on its face when it was rotated and i didn't really understand why
20100921 23:47:30< zookeeper> and the reason was that the rotated rule was actually identical to this:
20100921 23:47:30< zookeeper> *
20100921 23:47:30< zookeeper> ,  1
20100921 23:47:31< zookeeper> 2
20100921 23:47:49< zookeeper> ...which, of course, required a completely differently sized and positioned image
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 22 00:00:13 2010