--- Log opened Mon Sep 27 00:00:44 2010
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20100927 00:48:38< alink> mordante: btw, you may have noticed that I reused the titlescreen reload hotkey(F5) for editor's new reload WML feature. What is best: sharing the same hotkey (which probably means rename it), or define a new one specific to editor ?
20100927 00:50:35< alink> Ivanovic: now get decent scrolling (20-30 fps on a complex map) with my SDL-by-OpenGL wrapper \o/
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20100927 00:51:48< alink> just this tiny menu background glitch and the emulation will be perfect
20100927 00:52:30< alink> (on my system, I bet that some hardware/driver specifities will bite me on others)
20100927 00:53:15< alink> when done, I will polish it and probably commit it somewhere, just to get some other testing
20100927 00:54:36< alink> and then try to use real textures to start using GPU power
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20100927 01:00:59< CIA-35> alink * r46761 /trunk/src/display.cpp: Tiny simplifications
20100927 01:01:14< CIA-35> alink * r46762 /trunk/src/display.cpp: 
20100927 01:01:15< CIA-35> Increase the default darkening speed of :sunset (from every 5 frames to 3)
20100927 01:01:15< CIA-35> More useful like that. For example, allow to see water update.
20100927 01:01:15< CIA-35> ":sunset 5" can still be used to get old speed.
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20100927 01:07:31< eleazzaar> Mica: yes, i'm the terrain guy
20100927 01:16:22-!- SpoOkyMagician is now known as SpoOkyMagician_
20100927 01:19:56< Mica> eleazzaar: I just want to say it's superb, you're really great. :)
20100927 01:20:12< eleazzaar> thanks :)
20100927 01:28:20< shadowmaster> alink: I'm always willing to try out experimental patches that have something to do with OpenGL.
20100927 01:28:47< shadowmaster> I have been running experimental *drivers* for ages anyway.
20100927 01:29:28< alink> shadowmaster: ok good to know, driver will indeed be the most probable source of problem here
20100927 01:30:56< alink> Ah, good I got the last GUI1 menu bug :)
20100927 01:31:57-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20100927 01:32:11< alink> and I just notice now that rectangle are already GPU accelerated, nice
20100927 01:33:09-!- joo|sleep is now known as joo
20100927 01:33:28< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: would you mind a "lua workshop" in the forum ?
20100927 01:33:33< alink> my card (able to draw millions of textured polygons) just draw 1 dark rectangle and I am happy ;)
20100927 01:33:50< anonymissimus> the various lua threads are spread upon the other coding-related forums
20100927 01:34:02< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: been thinking about it for long. I'm not sure how much of a need for it there is though.
20100927 01:34:23< shadowmaster> but you know those parts of the board better than me, so I guess you're telling me that "yes, we want a Lua workshop"? ;)
20100927 01:35:20< anonymissimus> well in 1.9 it is so that everything in [events] runs through the lua engine; that means it is much morwe important then e.g. formula language
20100927 01:38:42< shadowmaster> wait.
20100927 01:38:55< shadowmaster> all [event] commands are implemented in lua now? o_O
20100927 01:39:49< shadowmaster> hm, no.
20100927 01:40:18< shadowmaster> I don't understand what you mean with everything running through lua, but I'll get to the forum creation later if you don't mind.
20100927 01:40:25< shadowmaster> 20-40 minutesish.
20100927 01:44:49< shadowmaster> make it 3 minutesish
20100927 01:46:44< shadowmaster> although I'd rather have Coders', WML, and Lua in a single subforum
20100927 01:46:50< shadowmaster> *forum
20100927 01:47:14< shadowmaster> right now there are perhaps too many forums under the main categories.
20100927 01:48:47< shadowmaster> can we have another alliterative name? Lua Lair? Lua Lane? Lua Library? :p
20100927 01:51:19< anonymissimus> hm there are sometimes very technical C++ discussions, no need to bother the wml starters with it...
20100927 01:52:19< shadowmaster> okay, then give me an alliterative name before I go for "Lua Land"
20100927 01:52:26< shadowmaster> ;)
20100927 01:52:30< anonymissimus> I'm referring to the handle_event_commands function in wml-tags.lua line 206; without that nothing in [events] would work I guess
20100927 01:53:18< shadowmaster> I'm seeing something I don't like there.
20100927 01:53:30< shadowmaster> "-- Apply music alterations once all the commands have been processed."
20100927 01:53:39< anonymissimus> I don't quite understand it too, btu what silene did makes coding cutscenes and such in lua fun, while for wml authors nothing changes
20100927 01:54:01< shadowmaster> that comment seems to suggest that something really changes for WML authors.
20100927 01:54:30< shadowmaster> at least as far as "multiple music changes in the same [event]" cases are concerned.
20100927 01:54:57< shadowmaster> although I might be misinterpreting it so I'll wait to try it  myself before complaining
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20100927 01:57:02< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: so, the alliterative name?
20100927 01:57:06< anonymissimus> I'f I'm not mistaken, changing music works like it should, I have some event where I do it more than once
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20100927 01:57:25< anonymissimus> why not lua workshop ?
20100927 01:57:40< shadowmaster> because it's not alliterative
20100927 01:57:47< shadowmaster> and WML Workshop and Coders' Corner are.
20100927 01:58:52< shadowmaster> and I like word games.
20100927 01:59:17< anonymissimus> after googling alliterative I understand :P
20100927 01:59:35< anonymissimus> well then lua lair sounds nice
20100927 01:59:57< anonymissimus> you can do that better
20100927 01:59:58< Gambit> But lua can't be used without WML
20100927 02:00:09< shadowmaster> Lua Laboratory.
20100927 02:00:28< shadowmaster> Gambit: WML can't be used without C++.
20100927 02:00:31< shadowmaster> go figure.
20100927 02:00:49< shadowmaster> (it can't be used without English either.)
20100927 02:00:50< Gambit> Meh
20100927 02:01:12< anonymissimus> it's not quite true Gambit
20100927 02:01:26< anonymissimus> I wrote a script fot doing wmllint-like stuff
20100927 02:01:42< anonymissimus> in lua, and that runs independantly from wesnoth
20100927 02:01:49< Gambit> Welcome forum 57 then :\
20100927 02:02:29< Gambit> shadowmaster: How about just Lua Lab
20100927 02:02:50< Gambit> Laboratory is such a laborious word
20100927 02:02:51< shadowmaster> why not Laboratory?
20100927 02:03:09< Gambit> Lab sounds cooler :P
20100927 02:03:17< anonymissimus> i vote for Lua Lair
20100927 02:03:44< shadowmaster> Gambit: vote for something
20100927 02:03:47< Gambit> Well laboratory and lab invoke thoughts of creation, invention (and crazy people)
20100927 02:04:25< shadowmaster> I vote for Lua Laboratory because it's possibly more to the point than "Lua Lair", especially for those who have no idea what Lua is. It suggests it's got something to do with code development!
20100927 02:04:29< shadowmaster> or research.
20100927 02:04:41< Gambit> shadowmaster: my vote lab > laboratory > lair
20100927 02:04:55< shadowmaster> you mean laboratory.
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20100927 02:05:06< Gambit> But kielbasa > all of those combined so be back later :)
20100927 02:05:10< Espreon> I demand "Lua Lair"!
20100927 02:05:12< Gambit> Ah there's Espreon. He's good with wards.
20100927 02:05:14< Gambit> ROFL
20100927 02:05:20< Gambit> Espreon: You log stalker.
20100927 02:05:21< shadowmaster> why are you so insistent about it? I mean, your bot only needs the forum number.
20100927 02:05:25< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: good point
20100927 02:05:47< Gambit> I'm not insistent. But like you and I both said, lair doesn't sound as well fitting with the forum's purpose.
20100927 02:05:58< Espreon> Gambit: Log stalking is fun...
20100927 02:06:10< Gambit> Espreon: Why not just... like... join the channels?
20100927 02:06:11< anonymissimus> maybe lua labs ?
20100927 02:06:13< shadowmaster> Gambit: you didn't say lair didn't fit.
20100927 02:06:19< Espreon> Just open a log and spam F5...
20100927 02:06:25< Espreon> Gambit: But... it's not as fun...
20100927 02:06:27< shadowmaster> Gambit: you didn't give any opinion about "lair" at all.
20100927 02:06:29< Mica> shadowmaster: I agree with you, LUA Laboratory sounds the best, and gets to the point.
20100927 02:06:50< shadowmaster> Lua Labs it shall be now that I have a third vote.
20100927 02:06:55< Espreon> DAMN!
20100927 02:07:12< Gambit> shadowmaster: Is that 57 then?
20100927 02:07:18< shadowmaster> I have no idea yet.
20100927 02:07:20 * Espreon thinks we should wait for the Lua Devil's decision...
20100927 02:07:43< shadowmaster> reminds me silene should be the Lord of Lua.
20100927 02:07:54< shadowmaster> Taking about alliterative stuff...
20100927 02:08:25< shadowmaster> Mica: "The name comes from the Portuguese word lua meaning "moon"."
20100927 02:08:32< shadowmaster> so it's not "LUA". It's "Lua".
20100927 02:08:54< Mica> shadowmaster: Ah, I thought it was short for something. My bad
20100927 02:09:02< alink> so: Planet Lua (for the paradox)
20100927 02:09:15< shadowmaster> not alliterative, no.
20100927 02:09:17< alink> <:o)
20100927 02:09:40< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: okay, so it'll be for lua support and development?
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20100927 02:09:55< anonymissimus> yes...
20100927 02:09:57< Espreon> Blargh, they'll always be Lua Witches to me...
20100927 02:10:05< shadowmaster> (where "support" means "assistance with lua for UMC developers" and "development" means "like Ideas but with more action and less words")
20100927 02:10:10< anonymissimus> threads like "Anonymissimus' lua thread"
20100927 02:10:13< Gambit> Oh now I know why Espreon wanted "Lair"
20100927 02:10:18< Gambit> It sounds evil.
20100927 02:10:28< Gambit> Now we know.
20100927 02:10:28< shikadibot> And knowing is half the battle!
20100927 02:10:57< Espreon> Indeed.
20100927 02:11:26< Mica> ...
20100927 02:11:27< Espreon> You see children, in Wesnoth, Lua is witchcraft...
20100927 02:11:33< shadowmaster> Gambit: youtube link time
20100927 02:12:04< shadowmaster> there are no children.
20100927 02:12:11< Gambit> janebot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
20100927 02:12:14< janebot> Gambit: title: YouTube - She's a witch!
20100927 02:12:15< shadowmaster> otherwise there'd be like dozens of bans
20100927 02:12:27< Espreon> .............
20100927 02:12:52 * Espreon is not amused
20100927 02:13:12< shadowmaster> freenode's servers' MoTD clearly state "YOU AGREE TO BE 13 OR OLDER"
20100927 02:13:24< Gambit> (anonymissimus weighs the same as a duck)
20100927 02:13:34< shadowmaster> more like:
20100927 02:13:36< shadowmaster> 20:13:15 [Freenode] -!- - By registering your nickname with Nickserv you agree that you
20100927 02:13:40< shadowmaster> 20:13:15 [Freenode] -!- - are 13 years of age, or older. For more information about the
20100927 02:13:45< shadowmaster> so no children.
20100927 02:13:52< Gambit> No registered children.
20100927 02:14:13< Espreon> Exactly.
20100927 02:14:27< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: "Discussion of Lua and [wiki=LuaWML]Lua/WML[/wiki] support, development and ideas."
20100927 02:14:36< shadowmaster>  does that sound like a good description?
20100927 02:14:52< anonymissimus> yes
20100927 02:15:14< Gambit> Sounds like "discussion of lua and discussion of lua support"
20100927 02:15:18< Gambit> Grammar Nazi: Back me up
20100927 02:15:29< shadowmaster> should  it go right under WML Workshop?
20100927 02:15:49< shadowmaster> Gambit: there's Lua, and then there's Lua/WML
20100927 02:15:55< shadowmaster> well, LuaWM
20100927 02:16:02< shadowmaster> *LuaWML 
20100927 02:16:06< Gambit> 58? hmmm
20100927 02:16:13< Gambit> OH
20100927 02:16:16< shadowmaster> I hope you get the idea by now.
20100927 02:16:29< Gambit> (the junkyard)
20100927 02:16:42< Espreon> Farewell... for now.
20100927 02:17:11< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: I placed it between Scenario & Campaign development and Coders' Corner
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20100927 02:17:26< shadowmaster> Corder's Corner. Same thing, different number.
20100927 02:17:53< shadowmaster> you are seriously going to need a developer title after this.
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20100927 02:34:20< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: still around?
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20100927 02:34:48 * anonymissimus hates irc
20100927 02:35:05< shadowmaster> er, why? :p
20100927 02:35:38< shadowmaster> I need     you to populate the new forum.
20100927 02:35:53< shadowmaster> I guess I can start by moving your lua thread to it.
20100927 02:38:22< anonymissimus> yes please do
20100927 02:38:39< anonymissimus> there's also "Dixie's lua thread"
20100927 02:38:55< anonymissimus> I hate irc for distracting me
20100927 02:39:26< shadowmaster> I just detach the terminal and look elsewhere when I need to do something
20100927 02:39:46< shadowmaster> I guess it's the one benefit of using a text-mode IRC client. Anyway, who'll write the sticky explaining what's the forum's purpose? :(
20100927 02:41:49< shadowmaster> Gambit: can you help me hunt down Lua threads?
20100927 02:42:08< shadowmaster> but only within the scope of the two first viewforum  pages
20100927 02:42:21< Gambit> okay
20100927 02:42:28< shadowmaster> I'm sufferring from some incredible lag here
20100927 02:45:05< Gambit> Done I guess
20100927 02:45:47< Gambit> Just three
20100927 02:46:31< shadowmaster> I'm still trying to locate Dixie's thread
20100927 02:46:53< Gambit> Was it all lua?
20100927 02:46:59< shadowmaster> dunno
20100927 02:47:04< shadowmaster> I saw one that's about WML In general
20100927 02:47:13< Gambit> Okay I'll move it too then
20100927 02:47:17< shadowmaster> an0nymissimus mentioned one named "Dixie's lua thread"
20100927 02:47:25< shadowmaster> the one I saw is named "Dixie's thread"
20100927 02:47:27< shadowmaster> so don't move it
20100927 02:47:32< Gambit> ah
20100927 02:47:45< Gambit> It's not on the first two pages then
20100927 02:48:03< Gambit> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=31119&hilit=dixie*+lua
20100927 02:48:11< Gambit> Last post one month ago
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20100927 02:57:22< CIA-35> eleazar * r46763 /trunk/data/core/ (14 files in 2 dirs): first steps in high-quality sand to water transitions.
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20100927 03:07:19< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=31417&p=453877&hilit=wesnoth.show_dialog#p453877
20100927 03:08:15< anonymissimus> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=28882&p=410068&hilit=getting+started+lua#p410068
20100927 03:09:33< shadowmaster> k
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20100927 03:15:18< anonymissimus> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31727&p=457843&hilit=lua#p457843 thats also good candidate
20100927 03:29:36< shadowmaster> Gambit: can you handle those for me?
20100927 03:29:47< shadowmaster> starting from the last line, since I already took care of the other two
20100927 03:30:04< shadowmaster> please do it before I bestow moderator powers on anonymissimus 
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20100927 03:38:43< Gambit> k
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20100927 05:17:36< Gambit> I don't understand why people are complaining about the new titlescreen.
20100927 05:17:44< Gambit> It's to the point where I think something might be wrong with my computer
20100927 05:17:50< Gambit> Because it looks perfectly fine to me...
20100927 05:19:24< eleazzaar> there's a psychological thing where people find it easier to complain about things that they have heard other people complain about
20100927 05:19:47< eleazzaar> the arraingment is not especially graceful
20100927 05:19:55< eleazzaar> but i think that's easily remidied
20100927 05:21:18< shadowmaster> that means I started it all, or am I Completely Missing The Point as usual?
20100927 05:23:54< shadowmaster> mordante: oh, btw, disregard what I said earlier. I obviously didn't expect a release announcement thread to become a discussion thread.
20100927 05:26:51< Gambit> Okay yes I liked it better when it stretched, but with all the things for users to potentially complain about I don't understand why this has come to the forefront.
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20100927 05:47:34< silene> Gambit: because that's the first thing you see when launching wesnoth, and you are forced to see it each time; how could it not come forefront?
20100927 05:56:49< Gambit> But what is "it"?
20100927 05:56:54< Gambit> What is bad.
20100927 05:56:57< Gambit> That's what I don't see.
20100927 05:57:16< Gambit> I see that I liked it better when it streched.
20100927 05:57:30< Gambit> I guess it's a taste thing.
20100927 05:57:40< Gambit> Unless like I said there's something abnormal with my setup here.
20100927 05:58:03< Gambit> Maybe I should get a screenshot :\
20100927 05:58:13< Gambit> But anyway good night.
20100927 05:58:29< silene> Gambit: maybe you just happen to be the only other developer with mordante that thinks it's looking better now
20100927 05:58:51< Gambit> I think it was better before I updated today.
20100927 05:58:51< silene> (in fact, i'm exagerating, Ivanovic also said it was looking better for pandora-like resolution)
20100927 05:59:09< Gambit> But before it was better than even further back in the past.
20100927 05:59:59< silene> but all the other developers that gave an opinion said the 1.8 titlescreen had a better layout
20100927 06:00:06< Gambit> Just make the tips box stretch again and it's golden.
20100927 06:00:16 * Gambit compares
20100927 06:01:43< Gambit> So before it looks like it fit everything into 800x600 and then a giant gap around
20100927 06:01:59< manic_mica> I know this probably doesn't follow KISS.. but what if there was option for either layout, with the old one as a default?
20100927 06:02:18< Gambit> :\
20100927 06:03:00< manic_mica> It was just a small suggestion, I didn't expect it to be taken to heart or anything o.o
20100927 06:03:09< Gambit> Okay one other thing I see... there's more space between the left of the tips box and the right of the screen and the right of the button menu and the left of the screen than there is between the bottoms
20100927 06:03:31< Gambit> err left and left and right and right and bottom and bottom
20100927 06:03:34< silene> manic_mica: kiss applies to game concepts, not to code (in fact, i do have such an option on my build, the same way i had an option to reenable the 1.6 lobby in 1.8)
20100927 06:04:14< manic_mica> silene: but it's something Wesnoth takes to heart.. I thought the Wesnoth devs did that everywhere except art.
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20100927 06:04:54< Gambit> What we should be asking is "what resolution does mordante use" :)
20100927 06:05:03< silene> manic_mica: that's just propaganda
20100927 06:05:09< manic_mica> lol.
20100927 06:05:25< manic_mica> Honestly, I think you should go with the majority. But that's just my opinion.
20100927 06:05:53< silene> it was indeed the motto of the lead developer, and he stopped contributing 5 years ago (or was it 6?)
20100927 06:05:59< Gambit> because it looks amazing at 1024x700
20100927 06:06:49< Gambit> Some people are still all "OAB!". I don't agree with those people, but in this case I think it would be a little rediculous to have another option.
20100927 06:07:12< Gambit> And you have to say "another" with the inflection of a teenager speaking about taking out the garbage or cleaning his room.
20100927 06:08:01< Gambit> I think the solution here is to buy mordante a bigger monitor.
20100927 06:08:18< shadowmaster> I am using a 1280x800 screen
20100927 06:08:32< shadowmaster> the titlescreen looks like...
20100927 06:08:44< Gambit> shadowmaster: shrink the window to 1024x700
20100927 06:09:00< Gambit> *768
20100927 06:09:34< shadowmaster> I can't see how that's better.
20100927 06:09:44< Gambit> hmm looks better here
20100927 06:09:50< shadowmaster> and the version label is still mislaigned.
20100927 06:10:12< Gambit> It's aligned with the tips box?
20100927 06:10:23< shadowmaster> yes, that's misalignment to me.
20100927 06:10:46< shadowmaster> because I worked with the code and I know that it's always been deliberately aligned at the window's bottom left corner, not to anything else
20100927 06:11:03< shadowmaster> and that was a Good Thing™.
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20100927 06:11:41< Gambit> Man if I don't stop talking I'll never get out of here...
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20100927 06:12:21< shadowmaster> anyway, KISS isn't the first concept that we have got wrong as a community. There's still the NRIW fiasco.
20100927 06:12:48< shadowmaster> there was no NRIW, so I wonder whence the acronym came from in the first place.
20100927 06:15:52< shadowmaster> hm, there's some quaint behavior when sliding the mouse over the titlescreen buttons as  fastly as possible.
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20100927 06:18:16< shadowmaster> nvm, it's just the first CPU core here that got stuck at 1 GHz :\
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20100927 06:23:20< eleazzaar> Here, this is how the main screen should be aligned:
20100927 06:23:21< eleazzaar> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=31765&p=458318
20100927 06:24:18< eleazzaar> I probably should have drawn a diagram-- it would have been less painful for me to make, and less painful for others to read
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20100927 06:39:05< eleazzaar> Gambit: seriously, if we had an option for every time more than a few people disagreed about how to do something Wesnoth would be as bloated and unweildy as a battleship on land.
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20100927 07:53:52< CIA-35> espreon * r46764 /trunk/data/hardwired/tips.cfg: 'a enemy' -> 'an enemy'.
20100927 08:01:01< CIA-35> espreon * r46765 /trunk/data/core/images/units/ (16 files in 2 dirs): Ran umcpropfix.
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20100927 10:06:58< zookeeper> eleazzaar, ah, sand<->water is really pretty now
20100927 10:16:13< zookeeper> eleazzaar, would it be useful if we had a transition macro for drawing a two-sided transition using a single image instead of two? i think it shouldn't be too hard to make a macro which draws a single image on the hex border.
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20100927 10:18:25< Ivanovic> moin
20100927 10:23:55< Ivanovic> alink: mordante already told me in a query that he would love to test your patch on his machine since he is currently (with debian stable) just having software based opengl (which will change when the next debian stable is out)
20100927 10:34:49< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46766 /trunk/ (11 files in 9 dirs): updated Indonesian and Portuguese (Brazil) translation
20100927 10:36:53< CIA-35> ivanovic * r46767 /branches/1.8/ (9 files in 8 dirs): updated Indonesian and Portuguese (Brazil) translation
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20100927 13:11:19< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46768 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/misc.cfg: Commented out needless wall variation WML since nothing uses it.
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20100927 14:40:34< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46769 /trunk/data/core/ (terrain-graphics/new-macros.cfg terrain-graphics.cfg): Added new macros for animated villages and setting village variation probabilities, and converted all villages to use these.
20100927 15:02:27< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46770 /trunk/data/core/ (terrain-graphics/new-macros.cfg terrain-graphics.cfg): Converted all castles to use new new wall macros, and upped the number of variations they can handle to 6.
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20100927 15:04:52< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46771 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/castle/ (48 files): Renamed all ruin1-* images to ruin-* and all sunken-ruin1-* images to sunken-ruin6-* according to the established variation naming convention.
20100927 15:09:21< Gambit> eleazzaar: Yes which is why:
20100927 15:09:29< Gambit> [00:06:45] <Gambit> Some people are still all "OAB!". I don't agree with those people, but in this case I think it would be a little rediculous to have another option.
20100927 15:11:04< Gambit> Also lol at my ISP for identifying me at "centurylink customer" in the mailing list...
20100927 15:11:31< Gambit> Yeah... I'll be getting a mail client today.
20100927 15:20:52< Ivanovic> honestly i do think that the whole preferences stuff should be redone
20100927 15:21:04< Ivanovic> the amount of advanced preferences we got now is insane
20100927 15:21:14< Ivanovic> especially since there is no obvious sourting for those
20100927 15:23:57< zookeeper> yep
20100927 15:26:49< zookeeper> half of those belong in a different tab
20100927 15:28:17< Ivanovic> more than half of them
20100927 15:28:32< Ivanovic> though the problem is that those tabs don't support any kind of getting larger by eg scrollbars
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20100927 15:29:27< zookeeper> yeah, the preferences dialog is crappy so all the new options go to the advanced tab.
20100927 15:29:40< zookeeper> i guess we can only hope that someone wants to fix it...
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20100927 17:04:15< eleazzaar> Gambit: yes, i was agreeing with you.
20100927 17:04:43< eleazzaar> Ivanovic: i agree the preferences are a mess
20100927 17:05:23< eleazzaar> zookeeper: yes, i think such a macro would be handy-- but not for the new sand-to-water
20100927 17:05:56< eleazzaar> i think i need to layer both halves separately
20100927 17:07:52< CIA-35> alink * r46772 /trunk/src/loadscreen.cpp: 
20100927 17:07:52< CIA-35> Make loadscreen use standard screen update.
20100927 17:07:52< CIA-35> (instead of being the only code calling low-level SDL functions)
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20100927 17:20:09< CIA-35> alink * r46773 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/internal-generic.cfg: Document the single hex optimization/trick into animated water macro
20100927 17:20:10< CIA-35> alink * r46774 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/canvas.cpp: Add a todo about a probably useless operation
20100927 17:21:08< CIA-35> eleazar * r46775 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: fix some terrain glitches.
20100927 17:23:01< CIA-35> alink * r46776 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/canvas.cpp: Fix typo in comment of r46774
20100927 17:36:32< zookeeper> eleazzaar, all righty. can you think of any current transitions for which it'd be useful?
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20100927 17:46:33< zookeeper> eleazzaar, actually it might not work well after all...imagine a castle next to such a two-directionally transitioning terrain; the transition shouldn't get drawn on top of the castle base, therefore it should not be drawn at all
20100927 17:46:46< zookeeper> at least unless the castle base was drawn on top of the transition, which might get hairy.
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20100927 17:53:52< zookeeper> eleazzaar, ah nevermind, i wasn't thinking straight it seems. of course such a terrain and castle wouldn't need a transition between them in the first place.
20100927 17:57:18< CIA-35> alink * r46777 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/canvas.cpp: Remove debug code from r46776
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20100927 18:22:03< eleazzaar> the strongest use-case i can think of is the animated waves washing up on the new sand-water
20100927 18:22:35< eleazzaar> which of course doesn't exist yet
20100927 18:25:54< Ivanovic> alink: you read the message i left you in the logs?
20100927 18:26:26< Ivanovic> alink: mordante would love to test the opengl hack to see if it does work on his phenom x4 with software rendering (i think he has a phenom x4, not 100% sure though)
20100927 18:26:55< Ivanovic> he definitely has no hardware acceleration for his graphics card using open source drivers in debian (currently) stable
20100927 18:28:43< alink> Ivanovic: yes, it's almost ready for test and it doesn't really use GPU, so unless the driver are really bad, that should be ok
20100927 18:29:34< alink> I thought that I had no regression anymore, but I just found a problem with fullscreen
20100927 18:31:12< Ivanovic> mkay
20100927 18:31:22< alink> but I think I now fixed all bugs of windowed mode. At least I can't see any difference
20100927 18:31:33< Ivanovic> you might want to send a mail to the dev-ml when you commit the current hackish approach clarifying what this is
20100927 18:32:19< zookeeper> eleazzaar, okay. if you want to try it out, then just tell me beforehand and i can try to cobble together a macro for that.
20100927 18:32:58< alink> Ivanovic: well, for the moment it's still useless (same but slower), just an experiment and a test bed for future real OpenGL code
20100927 18:33:32< Ivanovic> alink: those not reading the logs should just know what it is about and that it is expected to be slower
20100927 18:34:14< alink> Yes, indeed, I need a big warning "SLOWER, EXERIMENTAL" somewhere 
20100927 18:34:58< Ivanovic> :)
20100927 18:36:40< alink> but I wait that it works fine on mine before make others testing it. And I also need to add some assert or logging to help diagnose system problems
20100927 18:36:57< alink> It was almost today, but now I have this fullscreen thing
20100927 18:37:19< Ivanovic> commit it "as is" with a warning "only windowed works atm, more fixes to come"
20100927 18:37:34< Ivanovic> this way the code can not be lost in case something happens to your box
20100927 18:37:55< Ivanovic> (harddrive failure and stuff like this has already destroyed much work on this planet!)
20100927 18:38:56< alink> well no biggie, it's mostly me building knowledge, and the code is mostly one big function (but <100 lines)
20100927 18:39:20< alink> and general cleaning of our SDL code is already committed to trunk
20100927 18:39:35< alink> but I backup it ;)
20100927 18:39:44< Ivanovic> :)
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20100927 18:44:26< alink> btw I am thinking calling this hack "SGL" as "SDL by OpenGL"
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20100927 19:02:26< mordante> servus
20100927 19:03:35< mordante> alink, I guessed that the hotkeys were linked when eleazzaar complained they no longer worked ;-)
20100927 19:04:20< alink> mordante: yeah, I guessed that you guessed ;)
20100927 19:04:31< mordante> :-)
20100927 19:04:48< mordante> alink, what's with the encountered list, I assume you prefer to keep it
20100927 19:05:29< mordante> eleazzaar, I want to look at the preferences at some point, but first I need to do some more low-level gui2 stuff
20100927 19:05:31< alink> I prefer that someone use it, if unused, it should go
20100927 19:05:56< mordante> I agree, but do you want to work on using it?
20100927 19:06:12< alink> it's purely mainline, UMC can't use it, so no need to keep it if unused
20100927 19:06:40< alink> mordante: hmm I usualy don't write in-game text
20100927 19:06:55-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100927 19:07:09< mordante> ok, well let's wait and see how many reply to the email
20100927 19:07:24< mordante> you don't want to add some use cases yourself?
20100927 19:07:42< alink> that's also why I didn't add content when coding the feature
20100927 19:08:07< alink> I suppose I could add a visible one as example
20100927 19:08:21< zookeeper> hi, boucman
20100927 19:08:33< boucman> hey all
20100927 19:08:39< mordante> hi boucman 
20100927 19:08:41< alink> hello boucman
20100927 19:08:44< boucman> zookeeper: I see you've been working on the macros :)
20100927 19:09:08< mordante> alink, would be nice then at least there is some test case as well
20100927 19:09:36< alink> agreed
20100927 19:10:16< zookeeper> boucman, yeah... i was wondering how i should proceed if i needed someone to fix the terrain image alignment issue we talked about almost a week ago.
20100927 19:10:44< mordante> alink, like Ivanovic said I'm really interested in the OGL code
20100927 19:10:57< boucman> could you refresh my memory ?
20100927 19:11:03< mordante> I think if it works nicely a lot of gui2 can be rewritten
20100927 19:11:38< mordante> not that I would mind since it will remove the entire unrender part (which is tricky)
20100927 19:11:42< zookeeper> boucman, if i have a terrain rule map like this:
20100927 19:11:42< zookeeper> 1
20100927 19:11:43< zookeeper> ,  2
20100927 19:11:44< alink> mordante: you mean after real OpenGL optimizations ?
20100927 19:12:02< mordante> no I'm interested now
20100927 19:12:13< zookeeper> boucman, then, when rotations are applied to it, it turns (internally) into this:
20100927 19:12:13< zookeeper> *
20100927 19:12:13< zookeeper> ,  1
20100927 19:12:13< zookeeper> 2
20100927 19:12:18< mordante> like to know what it does to performance
20100927 19:12:40< mordante> not sure which graphics card you use and which drivers
20100927 19:12:48< boucman> zookeeper: that one would probably be for alink (sorry alink)
20100927 19:12:51< zookeeper> which means that castles need images in at least two dimensions, which adds to the overall complexity and also makes some things really difficult to do
20100927 19:12:53< mordante> but I have onboard graphics and slow drivers
20100927 19:13:07< alink> mordante: well, currently it's slower than SDL_Blit, the only new things possible are fast stretching
20100927 19:14:06< mordante> ok
20100927 19:14:18< alink> mordante: I am also worried about this new fullscreen bug, I hope it's not a big flaw in the hack's idea
20100927 19:14:38< zookeeper> alink, ^ when you've finished with mordante, maybe you could chime in on what boucman and i talked about
20100927 19:14:53< alink> mordante: but once I start using OpenGL texture, speed should improve greatly
20100927 19:14:56< alink> zookeeper: ok
20100927 19:16:23< mordante> alink, improve for good OpenGL drivers and regress for bad ones I assume ;-)
20100927 19:16:54< alink> mordante: I hope not
20100927 19:17:25< zookeeper> alink, here's our previous discussion on it, it's a bit more detailed: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/c0qDX0Ty
20100927 19:17:44< mordante> alink, you think it will remain good for bad OGL drivers?
20100927 19:17:48< alink> even bad driver/hardware should render few simple rectangle quickly 
20100927 19:18:33< alink> zookeeper: hmmm I never liked that rotation code :-/
20100927 19:18:33< mordante> ok nice
20100927 19:20:15< alink> zookeeper: can't you use standard rectangular "map=" ?
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20100927 19:21:24< zookeeper> alink, what would that look like? my second map in the pastebinned lines 15-17 doesn't work as expected
20100927 19:22:03< alink> I mean using * or . 
20100927 19:22:36< alink> but I don't remember all the details of map= syntax about newline/comma
20100927 19:22:47< boucman> zookeeper: I think the reason behind the current code is that it's easier (codewise) to find the upper left corner of a hex than the upper left corner of a rectangle of hex
20100927 19:23:11< boucman> so we just take min X min Y (in hex coordinate) and the upper left corner of the resulting hex
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20100927 19:23:25< zookeeper> no; no matter what the map= looks like, the top left hex where the image will be drawn relative to will change when rotations are used
20100927 19:23:51< zookeeper> (that was for alink)
20100927 19:24:24< zookeeper> and that in turn causes images for different rotations to be drawn relative to an entirely different hex on the gamemap
20100927 19:24:26< alink> ok ,and that looks like a unwanted feature, right ?
20100927 19:24:38< zookeeper> well, i think it's silly
20100927 19:25:07< boucman> I'm not sure it was ever intended as a feature... but yes
20100927 19:25:13< zookeeper> however, all the current rotations-using terrain WML and images of course rely on it
20100927 19:25:51< zookeeper> so if we wanted to fix that, it'd be best to introduce a (hopefully short-lived) WML option for activating the "new" behaviour
20100927 19:27:40< zookeeper> i can't see any real reason for the current behaviour except that it was probably easier to write back then
20100927 19:31:02 * alink still trying to understand this (and the relative code)
20100927 19:31:47< zookeeper> today i tried to come up with some sort of WML workaround for it, but doesn't seem like it's possible, at least not when using rotations, and without rotations you'd need 12 [terrain_graphics] tags when with rotations you just need 2...
20100927 19:37:53< alink> hmm, so when rotating we don't specify a center of rotation, but just assume (0,0) and then shift the whole thing to get all coordinates positives (not sure why)
20100927 19:39:14< zookeeper> right, that'd result in the problem i described
20100927 19:39:53< zookeeper> so instead of the alignment fix i proposed, maybe it'd be possible to allow the rotation center to be defined
20100927 19:40:20< alink> that seems a nice backward compatible possibility
20100927 19:41:04< alink> but it's still not clear for me how the image placement works with that
20100927 19:41:40< zookeeper> hmm, no, i don't that'd fix the issue; the basic problem that the image seems to get drawn relative to a top left hex even without rotations would still remain
20100927 19:41:46< zookeeper> i'll test it once more to make sure...
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20100927 19:43:11< alink> but "center" control that, right ?
20100927 19:44:45< zookeeper> hmm...yes. ok, i can't really say whether or not there'd still be a problem or not
20100927 19:45:53< alink> blindly disable the shift thing breaks everything
20100927 19:46:12< boucman> I think it would be much more logical if the center= would default to the center of the "area" instead of upper left corner, 
20100927 19:46:17< alink> btw it's in bulder.cpp:545, if another coder is interested
20100927 19:46:31< boucman> if we are breaking stuff, we might as well fix as much stuff as possible
20100927 19:46:43< alink> / Normalize the rotation, so that it starts on a positive location
20100927 19:46:56< alink> ^comment in code
20100927 19:48:57< zookeeper> i checked, the image indeed always gets drawn relative to a top-left hex (even if it isn't part of the map=) even when rotations aren't used
20100927 19:49:49< alink> and center= shifts that
20100927 19:49:55< zookeeper> yes
20100927 19:49:58< boucman> yes
20100927 19:50:20< alink> maybe we can update center when rotating/shifting. Does it help ?
20100927 19:50:23< zookeeper> or rather, center= denotes the coords where the center of the image should be placed to
20100927 19:50:26< boucman> I have systematically set the center= to be the logical center of the area in my macros, 
20100927 19:50:31< zookeeper> ...i think
20100927 19:50:43< boucman> yes, that's how it works afaiu
20100927 19:51:29< zookeeper> alink, probably... can't say for sure yet, i'll have to try to visualize it first ;)
20100927 19:51:31< alink> rotate() seems to only update "base" (for other weird reasons)
20100927 19:51:32< boucman> I think that we should change the default value of center= to the center of the map= area (assuming image not in [tile]) and have a second parameter for map rotation center...
20100927 19:52:21< alink> zookeeper: I also have an hard time to wrap my head around this
20100927 19:53:00< alink> I suppose I should write some WML to play with it to really understand what's going on
20100927 19:53:20< alink> zookeeper: do you have a full rule illustrating well the problem ?
20100927 19:53:39< zookeeper> alink, nothing simple, i'll write one for you
20100927 19:54:44< alink> boucman: or to the center of a specific hex of map=
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20100927 19:55:17< zookeeper> i'll give you a couple of simple images and a rule which places them, just a few minutes..
20100927 19:55:26< boucman> alink: yes, maybe, center=<center of hex with id 1> would be nice...
20100927 19:55:29< alink> zookeeper: no hurry
20100927 19:55:34< boucman> with a proper syntax of course:P
20100927 19:56:47< alink> zookeeper: especially since I will soon go eat something
20100927 19:59:15< alink> note that there is another syntax using "loc=" in [tile] which allow to enter negative coordinates, which could allow to decide the center  (always (0,0) but you can place other hexes around it)
20100927 19:59:30< alink> but the shift after rotation will still happen
20100927 19:59:33< zookeeper> alink, ok, in that case i'll take my time and try to make a really good test case ;)
20100927 20:00:08< alink> ok, I prefer that anyway, :-)
20100927 20:00:55< alink> hmm "loc" is probably obsolete and should be removed, use x,y instead
20100927 20:01:13< alink> IIRC I noticed that "loc" was undocumented
20100927 20:01:30< boucman> I think map= should be mandatory, the lternate syntax is not easy to use...
20100927 20:02:55< alink> yes probably, all these alternative syntax make things harder to maintain
20100927 20:03:44< boucman> i'm not sure it's a maintainance burden... alternative syntax also make things harder to read/understand when you are learning the syntax
20100927 20:04:25< boucman> so it's ok if the alternatives are good in different situations, but in this case the map= is vastly superior, the other one doesn't really make sense and is probably here for backward compatibility
20100927 20:05:41< alink> at least it make optimization harder. Since you can't adapt (perfectly) your structure+algo to all syntaxes 
20100927 20:05:50< boucman> yes true
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20100927 20:07:11< alink> anyway, need to go, bbl
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20100927 20:15:36-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 159 bugs, 298 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100927 20:44:05< zookeeper> alink, ok, i sent it to you in a forum PM
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20100927 20:53:47< zookeeper> huh, i didn't even remember we actually have traits described in the help..
20100927 20:55:16< Soliton> http://gna.org/bugs/?16772  invalid or won't fix?
20100927 20:58:07< zookeeper> more like in progress or postponed, i'll assign to myself...
20100927 20:59:22< Soliton> well, it works as designed IMO but it should get redesigned yes... :-)
20100927 21:01:17-!- Upthorn [ogmar@75.26.182.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20100927 21:04:51< zookeeper> Soliton, what, you didn't enjoy it?
20100927 21:06:42-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100927 21:07:30< Soliton> a 48 turn nail-biter indeed.
20100927 21:09:38< zookeeper> maybe it just needs more turns.
20100927 21:11:07< Soliton> since more is better.
20100927 21:12:24< zookeeper> of course
20100927 21:12:32< zookeeper> btw, did you finish the campaign already?
20100927 21:12:37< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46778 /trunk/data/core/help.cfg: Added feral to the traits section of the in-game help.
20100927 21:14:23-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@wh.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20100927 21:15:18< CIA-35> zookeeper * r46779 /trunk/data/core/help.cfg: Typo fix.
20100927 21:16:42< Soliton> yep, started with DW now.
20100927 21:17:09< zookeeper> anything to comment on in the last scenarios?
20100927 21:18:35< Soliton> well, we talked about the chocobone spawns, other then that...
20100927 21:18:55< Soliton> overall too easy probably.
20100927 21:20:07< zookeeper> okay
20100927 21:20:23< Soliton> nothing specific i can think of.
20100927 21:20:39< zookeeper> well, at least i guess i didn't break anything much in the last scenario then...
20100927 21:21:00< Soliton> nope, worked well.
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20100927 21:27:38< mordante> alink, around?
20100927 21:30:09< boucman> mordante: do you know where debug commands are implemented ?
20100927 21:32:46< mordante> boucman, in menu_events.cpp the function init_map() registers the handlers
20100927 21:32:57< boucman> thx
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20100927 21:46:40< alink> zookeeper: thanks, I will try it
20100927 21:46:53< alink> mordante: yes
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20100927 21:47:30< CIA-35> mordante * r46780 /trunk/ (changelog src/gui/auxiliary/timer.cpp): 
20100927 21:47:30< CIA-35> Lowers severity of some gui2 timer log messages.
20100927 21:47:30< CIA-35> The timer can handle the case so there are no real problems in the code.
20100927 21:47:34< CIA-35> mordante * r46781 /trunk/changelog: Update changelog.
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20100927 21:48:03< mordante> alink, I already posted what I wanted to say here https://gna.org/patch/?1919
20100927 21:49:40< alink> ok, I must reread my patch, but yes if it works like that then it should be ok. It's not fresh in mind anymore, but I thought that I took the first free id
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20100927 21:50:52< mordante> no it always increase id by at least one and has overflow/clash detection
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20100927 21:53:10< alink> then it should be safe, and you are right, it adds some complexity so it needs to fix something important enough
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20100927 21:54:16< mordante> I thought it wouldn't occur so I added a higher log level, but there are some windows of opportunity
20100927 21:54:22< mordante> wesbot, seen Vir
20100927 21:54:22< wesbot> mordante: The person with the nick Vir last spoke 14d 23h ago.  11d 3h ago they left with the message: Remote host closed the connection
20100927 21:54:43< Mica> _jbx_: You're jb, right? :o
20100927 21:55:34< alink> anyway, as I said I didn't have a fresh picture of this code anymore, and I am too tired now. But thanks for the review
20100927 21:55:43< alink> s/did/do
20100927 21:55:45< mordante> no problem
20100927 21:56:00< mordante> your code seemed to remove the warnings btw :-)
20100927 21:56:18< alink> yes it does. That, I tested ;)
20100927 21:57:10< CIA-35> boucman * r46782 /trunk/ (changelog src/menu_events.cpp): unit created in debug mode now play their recruit animation
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20100927 22:00:28< alink> mordante: I think Vir means when dezooming a lot (which is not a common case)
20100927 22:01:25< alink> because he talked about big map, and map size is irrelevant on normal zoom level
20100927 22:04:07< mordante> not sure, but he hasn't been around since :-(
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20100927 22:05:37< alink> Later I suspect that I will also less like this patch, because the old way had some "blitting context" that I want to use for OpenGL texture context (terrain, then units, then UI). But that's just vague plans for now. And maybe I can just use something intermediate between old and new way
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20100927 22:06:23< mordante> well I'm also not too happy with the patch especially not since it has a FIXME 
20100927 22:06:58< alink> it does ?
20100927 22:07:23< mordante> also not fond of the hard-coded limits and some parts of the coding style especially the | 'trick'
20100927 22:07:39 * alink speaks about the version in trunk
20100927 22:07:53< mordante> nevermind looked at the wrong place
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20100927 22:08:38< alink> yeah, these bits trick are nice but harder to maintain/evolve
20100927 22:09:01< alink> s/nice/clever
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20100927 22:11:56< alink> mordante: for the record, IIRC :benchmark didn't showed significant difference at normal zoom level
20100927 22:12:58< alink> but perhaps it insert invalidated locations in a special order
20100927 22:13:11< alink> (already sorted or something like that)
20100927 22:14:24< alink> mmh no this should help the patch, so perhaps in a worst case order 
20100927 22:14:55< alink> pfff, too tired to think, bye
20100927 22:15:08< alink> zookeeper: sry will check your terrain rule tomorow
20100927 22:15:24< mordante> ok so the 8x is only in high zoom cases and no real gain during normal playing
20100927 22:15:28< mordante> bye alink 
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20100927 22:40:32< mordante> I'm off night
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20100927 22:44:35< _jbx_> Mica: yeah, what's up?
20100927 22:45:08-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20100927 22:45:08< Mica> _jbx_: Just wanted to say hello. I'm working on finishing up, the mountains should open up now. But I was told giving gold doesn't work.
20100927 22:46:34< _jbx_> Mica: giving gold does work, maybe just not the way you are trying to do it.  I've got it working in other 1.8.x projects already
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20100927 22:46:56< Mica> _jbx_: I meant in UE :p I was going to work on fixing it. I was going to test now, you want to join in?
20100927 22:47:12< _jbx_> Mica: sorry, i'm at work.
20100927 22:47:26< Mica> _jbx_: That's okay :) What time zone are you in?
20100927 22:47:37< _jbx_> chicago
20100927 22:48:02< _jbx_> I've got to get back, let me know how it goes
20100927 22:48:45< Mica> k
20100927 22:52:53< CIA-35> mordante * r46783 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/title_screen.cpp: Remove some leading whitespace.
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20100927 22:54:11< zookeeper> hrhm, now i'm getting an MSVC++ runtime error when starting my 1.9.1...
20100927 22:54:20< zookeeper> it worked yesterday
20100927 22:54:42< SpoOkyMagician> :?
20100927 22:54:51< SpoOkyMagician> weird
20100927 22:54:58< Ivanovic> zookeeper: lovely, finally a dev has it!
20100927 22:55:12< zookeeper> i deleted my cache files and then it started up ok
20100927 22:55:14< Ivanovic> zookeeper: now you just need to find out what is causing it (maybe loonycyborg can help)
20100927 22:55:39< zookeeper> now i exited the game and started it up again without deleting the cache, and i get the same crash
20100927 22:55:52< SpoOkyMagician> any stderr.txt messages?
20100927 22:56:00< zookeeper> deleted cache, and again it works...
20100927 22:56:27< Ivanovic> have you tried starting with --log-info=all when the cache is still there and it crashes?
20100927 22:56:34< zookeeper> probably it worked for me yesterday since the cache was rebuilt on every restart
20100927 22:56:41< zookeeper> nope, i'll try it
20100927 22:57:58< zookeeper> nothing special in stderr with that switch, just a "info filesystem: Streaming D:/Games/Wesnoth-1.9.1/userdata/cache/cache-v1.9.1-11353e23b1fb4efc43fdc54da88fe928ad1d87d9.gz for reading.
20100927 22:58:02< zookeeper> ...as the last line
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20100927 23:02:23< loonycyborg> zookeeper: There was a crash reported that was caused by cache corruption if _main.cfg is empty. I investigated it and found that it's caused by ne using boost 1.44
20100927 23:02:27< loonycyborg> *me
20100927 23:02:59< loonycyborg> Maybe your issue has similar roots.
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 28 00:00:54 2010