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20100908 07:45:20< shadowmaster> it seems I'm the only one who can't reach my own site...lynx gets it from the netherlands.
20100908 07:45:56< shadowmaster> actually, I can reach it too from here with lynx. :/
20100908 07:47:25< SpoOkyMagician> interesting
20100908 07:48:57< shadowmaster> works from Chrome, albeit slowly.
20100908 07:49:49< shadowmaster> and I don't get the frogatto banners. I guess that's something of a clue...
20100908 07:51:02< Cookieee> o.O
20100908 07:54:48< SpoOkyMagician> hm... (updates drakes for sx_classic) glad lester pointed that out to me... lol
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20100908 08:00:29< shadowmaster> ah bah, now it doesn't work from here with lynx either. Definitely a host provider problem.
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20100908 08:01:37< shadowmaster> SpoOkyMagician: ohh, I forgot your editor bug
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20100908 08:01:51< SpoOkyMagician> heh np SM
20100908 08:01:55< shadowmaster> I'll check it tomorrow. If you are around, poke me about it before 10:00 UTC
20100908 08:02:07< shadowmaster> I mean before 6:00 UTC
20100908 08:02:15< SpoOkyMagician> hm...
20100908 08:02:23< SpoOkyMagician> its 2am here... what would that be?
20100908 08:02:23< shadowmaster> no, I mean before 4:00 am UTC
20100908 08:02:48< shadowmaster> I'm leaving the task of doing further maths to you. I can't know your timezone anyway.
20100908 08:03:03< SpoOkyMagician> heh alright.
20100908 08:03:09< shadowmaster> (tip: UTC is like GMT for most purposes)
20100908 08:05:48< SpoOkyMagician> hm...
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20100908 08:06:10< SpoOkyMagician> (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) so... i am a hour late? idk timezones lol
20100908 08:06:47< shadowmaster> I am UTC-04
20100908 08:07:09< shadowmaster> that means it's 1:07 am there
20100908 08:07:17< shadowmaster> and 2:07 am here.
20100908 08:07:52< SpoOkyMagician> alright (my clock says 2 am. must of got something wrong or calcs wrong. lol
20100908 08:08:12< shadowmaster> maybe you are under the effects of the foul Daylight Saving Time power.
20100908 08:08:38< shadowmaster> although it's pretty cool to be able to get to home at 9 pm and still be able to see one's feet here on Summer.
20100908 08:08:41< SpoOkyMagician> i believe so. but its going to change in a bit. (in about a month)
20100908 08:09:13< SpoOkyMagician> so, tomorrow around this time but a few hours earlier?
20100908 08:09:52< shadowmaster> 3 hours early.
20100908 08:09:56< shadowmaster> earlier.
20100908 08:09:58< SpoOkyMagician> ok
20100908 08:10:01< SpoOkyMagician> will do
20100908 08:10:40 * SpoOkyMagician continues to fix sxc_classic
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20100908 08:28:47< SpoOkyMagician> well, thats done...
20100908 08:29:55 * SpoOkyMagician plays wesnoth
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20100908 09:19:39< SpoOkyMagician> zookeeper: can i ask for your opinion on something?
20100908 09:21:42< zookeeper> SpoOkyMagician, sure
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20100908 09:22:16< SpoOkyMagician> this addon that i have been working on for awhile... (unwelcome guests series) When I first wrote it, I was a noob back then at WML. Overtime, I made it more manageable but it still is a bit chaotic still. It used to be about 10000 lines of code. now its about 6000 lines... do you think i should just start over or keep shriking it down?
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20100908 09:23:26< zookeeper> uh, well, depends on whether that 6000 lines is a reasonable amount for what that add-on actually does
20100908 09:23:47< zookeeper> what is it like?
20100908 09:24:58< SpoOkyMagician> well, i took all my macro files and combined them into one file so I could see what i did and tried to remove whatever redundant code was and make macros. but, it still needs a bit of work...
20100908 09:25:15< SpoOkyMagician> if you wish to see it, i could use a pastebin but its pretty long...
20100908 09:25:27< SpoOkyMagician> some of it is still embarrising
20100908 09:25:54< zookeeper> well, i'm not particularly interested in wading through 6000 lines of code
20100908 09:26:20< zookeeper> what you're asking me is whether 6000 lines is good enough, and there's no way for me to know
20100908 09:26:28< SpoOkyMagician> heh ...true
20100908 09:27:14< SpoOkyMagician> hm...
20100908 09:28:39< SpoOkyMagician> well, i might just start over... it may be much easier to just rewrite things over then just trying to slowly trim it back down
20100908 09:29:11< SpoOkyMagician> but thanks anyway
20100908 09:29:12< zookeeper> i guess that depends on how messy the current code is
20100908 09:29:52< SpoOkyMagician> well... i wouldnt say its messy... but there are a lot of menu items/option tags that could be fixed
20100908 09:30:13< zookeeper> for example when i started to work on BoL the code was a horrible mess, but i'm pretty sure that just setting out to rewrite it entirely would have been much more work than cleaning it up one part at a time
20100908 09:30:59< SpoOkyMagician> true
20100908 09:31:54< SpoOkyMagician> i also got a unit macro that i need to remove as well... (i could use UNIT instead
20100908 09:31:59< SpoOkyMagician> )*
20100908 09:36:11< SpoOkyMagician> hm... maybe i should split some of the code back into seperate files again... one giant file can become frustrating
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20100908 10:17:32< hylje> SpoOkyMagician_: refactoring your old stuff helps you understand the quirks your coding style had, or even still has
20100908 10:17:53< hylje> it will take more time but that time is spent pondering better solutions in relation to the old
20100908 10:18:20< SpoOkyMagician_> yea. i did learn a few things when I was shrinking down the code a bit.
20100908 10:18:45< SpoOkyMagician_> but i just seperated the code into multiple files just now.
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20100908 10:19:08< SpoOkyMagician> this way i can (hopefully) make the code even better
20100908 10:20:04< SpoOkyMagician> downside is that i have to open 20 files now... lol
20100908 10:21:51< SpoOkyMagician> (one giant file just frustrated me.)
20100908 10:22:11< SpoOkyMagician> but 20 smaller files, i can live with.
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20100908 10:34:46< Ivanovic> moin
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20100908 10:57:49< SpoOkyMagician> sigh... {~add-ons/Unwelcome_Guests_Series/utils/cat.cfg} you know your tired when you cant even spell "chat: correctly...
20100908 10:57:56< SpoOkyMagician> lol
20100908 10:58:11< SpoOkyMagician> "chat" *
20100908 10:58:40< SpoOkyMagician> im gonna get some sleep... gn all
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20100908 14:43:19< celkoranor> is there somewhere documentation on how the parameter --nogui works?
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20100908 14:44:43< Cookieee> GAMBIT
20100908 14:45:17< Gambit> Huh?
20100908 14:45:54 * Cookieee kicks Gambit in the face :D
20100908 14:46:12< Rhonda> celkoranor: It doesn't start the gui?
20100908 14:47:06< celkoranor> mhm..yeah
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20100908 14:47:28< celkoranor> i want to start a multiplayer game and join later in
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20100908 15:01:54< Soliton> what's that supposed to mean?
20100908 15:02:21< Soliton> either way it has nothing to do with --nogui.
20100908 15:13:54< celkoranor> good to know :D
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20100908 17:00:14< Gambit> Unnheulu: What'd I do?
20100908 17:02:27< Unnheulu> Realised that a computer puts 10 before 2
20100908 17:03:03< Gambit> Oh well you're a few years late then on congratulating me.
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20100908 18:40:58< Semitones> anybody know some good lord of the rings jokes?
20100908 18:42:08< Unnheulu> Hiah PeterPorty
20100908 18:42:19< PeterPorty> hi Unnheulu 
20100908 18:42:29< Unnheulu> PeterPorty, wanna see my title screen? 
20100908 18:42:37< PeterPorty> link me
20100908 18:42:39< Unnheulu> The logo scrolls across like wesnoths one does <3
20100908 18:42:42< Unnheulu> Two secs
20100908 18:42:47< PeterPorty> ;)
20100908 18:42:48< Unnheulu> s/secs/hours/
20100908 18:42:53< PeterPorty> lol
20100908 18:42:57< Unnheulu> My game has a massive loading time since I added music :D
20100908 18:43:13< Unnheulu> In any case, this is the wrong channel
20100908 18:43:27< PeterPorty> ...
20100908 18:43:38< PeterPorty> but... nobody's on the other one...
20100908 18:43:44< Unnheulu> I am
20100908 18:43:49< PeterPorty> ...
20100908 18:44:00< Unnheulu> And the artist,musician and other coder is
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20100908 18:54:28< Unnheulu> shadowmaster, its definetely in 1.8.0
20100908 18:54:54< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: what is?
20100908 18:54:58< Unnheulu> LoW
20100908 18:55:05< shadowmaster> and why do you tell me this here?
20100908 18:55:07< Unnheulu> Didn't want to clutter up your conversation with fabi though
20100908 18:56:14< shadowmaster> you are distracting me by talking about it here.
20100908 18:56:18< shadowmaster> it's just like metathreading
20100908 18:56:53 * Unnheulu sighs
20100908 18:56:58< Unnheulu> Sorry :s
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20100908 20:02:33< hylje> i don't get the insistence on on-topic here, it's too quiet here to begin with
20100908 20:03:01< VurtualRuler98> You have to become one with the channel, all buddhist like or something.
20100908 20:05:06< hylje> i have no idea what related projects are active nor what's awesome because nobody talks about them
20100908 20:05:09< PeterPorty> http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i23/mohmoo/thiscool.jpg
20100908 20:06:50< PeterPorty> ok, a 'lol' would be totally cool now...
20100908 20:07:06< VurtualRuler98> heh
20100908 20:11:57< PeterPorty> that works
20100908 20:21:44-!- artisticdude [9442274a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.66.39.74] has joined #wesnoth
20100908 20:22:47< artisticdude> ...
20100908 20:22:47< artisticdude> wesbot: seen Jetrel
20100908 20:22:48< artisticdude> Did I do that right?
20100908 20:22:48< wesbot> artisticdude: The person with the nick Jetrel last spoke 42d 9h ago.  9d 16h ago they were seen quitting on the channel #wesnoth-dev with the message: Remote host closed the connection
20100908 20:22:59< artisticdude> Ah. :)
20100908 20:23:46< artisticdude> Nine days 16 hours? :0
20100908 20:23:48< hylje> all right 
20100908 20:24:19< PeterPorty> he last spoke 42 days ago
20100908 20:24:37< artisticdude> But he was last seen on IRC 9 days ago.
20100908 20:24:51< artisticdude> Which is bad, because I need to contact him.
20100908 20:24:57< shadowmaster> /query Jetrel
20100908 20:24:59< Unnheulu> artisticdude, pm...
20100908 20:25:14< artisticdude> I've sent him 2 PMs
20100908 20:25:16< Unnheulu> He just appears not to regular the wesnoth channels
20100908 20:26:21< PeterPorty> artisticdude, he'son #frogatto
20100908 20:26:29< PeterPorty> he's on*
20100908 20:27:05 * artisticdude goes to #frogatto to annoy Jetrel.
20100908 20:27:16< artisticdude> Well, hopefully not to annoy. :/
20100908 20:27:22< PeterPorty> just go
20100908 20:27:30< Unnheulu> Frogatto's fun :)
20100908 20:27:38< PeterPorty> lies
20100908 20:27:39< Unnheulu> I've played it way more than wesnoth on my ipod
20100908 20:27:42< PeterPorty> it's like... oyshi
20100908 20:27:47< PeterPorty> yoshi
20100908 20:27:50< Unnheulu> It's nearly as good as supertux
20100908 20:27:58< PeterPorty> ...
20100908 20:28:00< artisticdude> Yoshi! :)
20100908 20:28:07< artisticdude> Ah.
20100908 20:28:18< artisticdude> Wait... supertux? :/
20100908 20:28:29< Unnheulu> Yeah
20100908 20:28:32< Unnheulu> That cool platformer
20100908 20:28:37< artisticdude> It's waaaay better than supertux.
20100908 20:28:42< Unnheulu> The one that any self-respecting 7 year old plays
20100908 20:28:54< Unnheulu> I bet you my younger cousin would prefer supertux to frogatto
20100908 20:29:16< Unnheulu> Supertux has just got this nice simple aspect to it, frogattos much more complex
20100908 20:29:17< artisticdude> My brother plays both of them to death. >.>
20100908 20:29:51< artisticdude> Supertux= Mario rip-off.
20100908 20:29:57< Unnheulu> Pff
20100908 20:30:06< artisticdude> Seriously.
20100908 20:30:19< Unnheulu> Imho Grumbel is one of the most awesome devs eva
20100908 20:30:21< VurtualRuler98> Ooh ooh
20100908 20:30:26< Unnheulu> s/Grumbel/Ingo Ruhnke/
20100908 20:30:41< VurtualRuler98> when will we get some guy who says all of x genre sucks because all the open source games in genre x are badly made because open source developers are horrible game designers?
20100908 20:30:56< VurtualRuler98> ...no offense
20100908 20:31:05< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: he isn't.
20100908 20:31:11< shadowmaster> seriously, he isn't.
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20100908 20:31:50< Unnheulu> When I was younger, the only games I'd play were tuxracer, supertux and pingus
20100908 20:32:23< PeterPorty> ...
20100908 20:32:26< shadowmaster> that doesn't make their devs some of the most awesome devs eva
20100908 20:32:35< PeterPorty> When I was younger I played Diablo "
20100908 20:32:38< PeterPorty> 2*
20100908 20:32:42< shadowmaster> unless your vision of the world is that limietd
20100908 20:32:45< shadowmaster> *limited
20100908 20:32:48< Unnheulu> You just need to look at how many cool stuff he's coded
20100908 20:32:54< Unnheulu> s/many/much/
20100908 20:33:07< PeterPorty> sirp is totally the best dev ever
20100908 20:33:15< PeterPorty> ;)
20100908 20:33:15< shadowmaster> there are many other developers out there writing much cool stuff.
20100908 20:33:31< Unnheulu> I'm one of them and every ignores everything I do ;-P
20100908 20:33:45< PeterPorty> Unnheulu, your game looks crappy
20100908 20:33:51< PeterPorty> and boring.
20100908 20:33:54< PeterPorty> and the name is...
20100908 20:33:58< PeterPorty> sounds girly
20100908 20:34:19< shadowmaster> PeterPorty: for the last time...
20100908 20:34:20< Unnheulu> PeterPorty, the core-code is being rewritten, so your right, its boring staring at a half working gui and a black screen
20100908 20:34:37< PeterPorty> Agreed
20100908 20:34:48< PeterPorty> shadowmaster, he agrees with me! don't shoot me!
20100908 20:34:49< Unnheulu> In any case that wasn't the project I was referring to, and I have no interest in telling you what it is
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20100908 20:35:29< PeterPorty> http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i23/mohmoo/pandabill.gif Ok, see this, have some fun and relax
20100908 20:36:48< hylje> pandas make everything better
20100908 20:37:06< shadowmaster> until they bite you
20100908 20:37:07< hylje> regular bears make everything worse though
20100908 20:37:22< Unnheulu> That's why they're extinct in the UK :)
20100908 20:37:31< Unnheulu> s/the UK/GB/
20100908 20:38:13< hylje> when was the last time someone proposed bear cavarly for some wesnoth faction?
20100908 20:38:30< hylje> dwarves could use something slightly faster than normal dwarves
20100908 20:38:36< VurtualRuler98> Now. Because I am. And "Northerners" sounds too Russian to not.
20100908 20:38:54< shadowmaster> "Though the Giant Panda is often assumed to be docile, it has been known to attack humans, presumably out of irritation rather than predation."
20100908 20:39:12< hylje> squeeing humans are possibly the most irritating things on earth
20100908 20:39:24< PeterPorty> ...
20100908 20:40:17< PeterPorty> k, I'll be switching OS now... a fresh start with Linux...
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20100908 20:40:20< PeterPorty> c ya guys
20100908 20:40:25< shadowmaster> bye
20100908 20:40:27< Unnheulu> Hwyl?
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20100908 20:40:47< Unnheulu> Wesnoth is dying for a welsh translation :/
20100908 20:40:56< hylje> so what kind of things would northerner bear cavarly be notorioous for
20100908 20:41:03< hylje> apart from, you know, bears
20100908 20:41:05< VurtualRuler98> After playing Red Orchestra nonstop, and watching Kelly's Heroes because the satellite was out, I thought it'd be awesome to have WW2 wesnoth units, with things like artillery and stuff. And bear calvary.
20100908 20:41:41< VurtualRuler98> http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/bear_cavalry.jpg This should pretty much sum up bear cavalry, hylje
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20100908 20:43:15< Unnheulu> G'day Hulavuta
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20100908 20:44:40< VurtualRuler98> The only challenge for making a WW2 era would be that I can't figure out how to reliably do a ranged attack, without being too obfuscated to be worth it. Ignoring that I'm a horrible artist and WML makes me sick.
20100908 20:45:38< hylje> 7 move cavarly that gets even less penalties than wolf cavarly on hills and mountains than wolves
20100908 20:50:35< zookeeper> VurtualRuler98, you just need to make it in some clever way
20100908 20:51:06< zookeeper> for example make them have a completely indirect effect instead of having attacks just like other units
20100908 20:56:33< VurtualRuler98> Yeah, but you'd probably want some kind of counter-attack.
20100908 20:57:37< zookeeper> counterattack to artillery? why so?
20100908 20:57:44< VurtualRuler98> Well, riflemen too.
20100908 20:58:23< VurtualRuler98> Someone's sniping you, but they're close, and they aren't in prohibiting terrain(sure, you could hit 500 meters(5 hexes?) away with a good shot, but counter-attacking, through forest/vs someone in a town?), you'd naturally shoot back.
20100908 20:58:46< VurtualRuler98> Also, obligotory notice that you'd be able to shoot at artillery shooting at you plainly just a hex between you.
20100908 21:02:17< zookeeper> i'm not following
20100908 21:02:41< VurtualRuler98> Okay, artillery located behind/in hills far away, you couldn't shoot back at that in real life, you probably wouldn't even know where it is.
20100908 21:03:01< zookeeper> sure
20100908 21:03:03< VurtualRuler98> But if say, you were in an open plain, and the towed gun/mortar/whatever was just in the distance a bit, you could certainly try.
20100908 21:03:50< zookeeper> and why would you want to complicate matters by thinking of terrain like that, instead of in an abstract manner like in wesnoth?
20100908 21:04:06< VurtualRuler98> Because I don't like overdone simple games.
20100908 21:04:14< zookeeper> does wesnoth qualify? :P
20100908 21:04:47< VurtualRuler98> And at some point I'd go overboard trying to code in grenade-attacks, things like bayonets.
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20100908 21:09:45< zookeeper> i'd rather solve that by still having reasonably abstract attacks, but with different risks involved. you could tell your infantry to just keep shooting from the trenches, which is safe but won't inflict much damage, or you could order them to do a charge which can potentially gain you new ground but which would be very risky
20100908 21:09:59< zookeeper> then you can just have the former play random animations of the guy(s) shooting, throwing grenades or whatever
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20100908 21:10:50< zookeeper> that wouldn't make the game any simpler, but would make it more...believable and more like an actual strategy game, i'd say
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20100908 21:14:49< zookeeper> telling an individual soldier whether to throw a grenade or shoot his rifle would seem pretty ridiculous in a WW2 game if each unit is actually representing a larger group, which it would in a wesnoth-based game
20100908 21:15:05< VurtualRuler98> I moreso imagined say, if you had a rifleman, you could have him either shoot with his much more numerous attacks, or use a grenade, but lose lots of his attacks. Then if the weapon is like, bolt-action, you only attack every other round, and then meleeing being like "You missed? Okay, you can still have an x chance of doing melee damage, more if you have a bayonet"
20100908 21:15:12< VurtualRuler98> Even if it's silly.
20100908 21:16:49< zookeeper> well i was thinking about how these kind of things can work in wesnoth already about 4 years ago ;)
20100908 21:16:52< VurtualRuler98> You could possibly write attack AIs for units, so if a unit is ordered to grenade an enemy, they'll do so, or if they're out of attacks, they might just start chucking grenades anyways. Or when opening into battle. It'd be crazy hard though.
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20100908 21:21:37< zookeeper> anyways, in my WW1 mod artillery worked like this: each artillery had X attacks per turn. any unit within a radius of Y would have a "call support fire" attack which would make that artillery attack the enemy and deplete one of its attacks. so basically artillery had ranged attacks but you always needed infantry or an airplane to tell them where to fire.
20100908 21:22:46< zookeeper> (and of course that "call support fire" attack was completely free for the other units to use)
20100908 21:25:30< VurtualRuler98> As long as there's room to have little idle reloading animations after combat.
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20100908 23:42:09 * SpoOkyMagician pokes shadowmaster
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20100908 23:46:02< SpoOkyMagician> meh, seems im early... ill contact later...
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20100908 23:52:21< Gambit> SpoOkyMagician: There's just not enough shadowmaster to go around.
20100908 23:52:33< SpoOkyMagician> lol indeed.
20100908 23:52:39< SpoOkyMagician> :P
20100908 23:54:12< SpoOkyMagician> hm...
20100908 23:55:28-!- MarioMaster100 [~MarioMast@99-195-23-47.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #wesnoth
20100908 23:56:04< MarioMaster100> so question in the linux version, where does wesnoth save you save files and what is the file called?
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20100908 23:57:07< MarioMaster100> anybody?
20100908 23:57:11< SpoOkyMagician> zookeeper: while im thinking about it, is it even possible (or is there there a plan) for menu items able to use hotkeys?
20100908 23:57:34< MarioMaster100> in the linux version, where does wesnoth save you save files and what is the file called?
20100908 23:57:39< MarioMaster100> anybody know?
20100908 23:57:50< SpoOkyMagician> [set_menu_item] i mean
20100908 23:58:22< MarioMaster100> for my question?
--- Log closed Thu Sep 09 00:00:27 2010