--- Log opened Mon Sep 13 00:00:52 2010 20100913 00:09:53-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 00:21:43-!- noy_ [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 00:24:45-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20100913 00:24:45-!- noy_ is now known as noy 20100913 00:25:20-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20100913 00:26:01< Aethaeryn> So who here considers themselves a big math geek? 20100913 00:27:15 * Pentalis considers himself a small math geek 20100913 00:28:49< Aethaeryn> Pentalis: Does that include calculus? 20100913 00:29:14< Pentalis> Very smallishly =) 20100913 00:29:31< Aethaeryn> well, this is probably a very simple problem, but it's also not explained anywhere. 20100913 00:29:36< Pentalis> http://www.wolframalpha.com/ <--- this is a bigger math geek 20100913 00:29:52< Pentalis> Oh, share it. Maybe I can help. 20100913 00:30:29< Aethaeryn> Please note that if this is anything like Precalc over the summer, the hard hw problems are going to be basically verbatim on the quiz, so I don't want an answer, I want the trick to how to solve it 20100913 00:31:04< Aethaeryn> lim x-> 0 (f(x)/x^2) = 4 20100913 00:31:13< Aethaeryn> I have to use that to solve two other things. 20100913 00:32:00< Aethaeryn> I have no clue how to get lim x-> 0 f(x) from that. 20100913 00:32:52< Pentalis> Often the trick is simply replacing x for 0. Sometimes, however, you will need to calculate the actual limit, that was done with some calculus fu which I forgot, but the "intuitive" way to do it is using increasingly small X values, both from the negative and positive side, that's equivalent to "approaching the limit". 20100913 00:33:13-!- Laogeodritt [~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20100913 00:33:14< Aethaeryn> Right, can't substitute x for 0 because it's 0^2 20100913 00:33:24< Pentalis> Yep, that's true in this case. 20100913 00:33:26< Aethaeryn> I know how to do limits, but this isn't a limit per se. :/ 20100913 00:33:43< Pentalis> The joyful part is that any real number to the power of 2 will be positive. 20100913 00:33:50< Pentalis> So you only need to approach the problem from the positive side. 20100913 00:34:06< Aethaeryn> do you think I can just turn it to lim x-> 0 f(x) = 4x^2? 20100913 00:34:08< Aethaeryn> is that legal? 20100913 00:34:30< Pentalis> Try with x = 1e-3 , 1e-8, 1e-12 and so on, and see what happens. 20100913 00:34:43< Pentalis> Hhm, I don't think you can do that, nope. 20100913 00:35:12< Pentalis> The problem is that the conversion you just mentioned is always valid, except when x = 0 20100913 00:35:33< Pentalis> And x = 0 is your problem. 20100913 00:36:07< Pentalis> You need to find a function of X such that it always results in 4 when divided by x^2? 20100913 00:36:18< Pentalis> What does the question of the problem say? 20100913 00:36:36< Aethaeryn> The limit as x approaches zero of f(x)/x^2 is 4. 20100913 00:36:38< Aethaeryn> Basically. 20100913 00:36:54< Aethaeryn> So I need to find the limit of f(x) 20100913 00:37:09< Aethaeryn> I do not remember being told how to do this, and I cannot find it in the book. 20100913 00:38:00-!- Laogeodritt [~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 00:38:01< Aethaeryn> hmm 20100913 00:38:07< Aethaeryn> wait, I think I might have found an approach 20100913 00:38:20< Pentalis> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=lim%28x-%3E0%29+%28f%28x%29%2Fx^2%29+%3D+4 20100913 00:38:31< Pentalis> (that's wolfram alpha approaching the problem, spoilers be there) 20100913 00:39:51< Aethaeryn> ah 20100913 00:41:19< Pentalis> f(x) should be 4 x^2 20100913 00:41:27< Pentalis> (the answer just popped in my head) 20100913 00:41:34< Pentalis> You were right 20100913 00:41:57< Pentalis> But... it's not done by moving the functions from one side to the other, because sometimes that has exceptions (which I forgot mostly =D ) 20100913 00:43:34< Gambit> oi 20100913 00:43:36< Gambit> oi! 20100913 00:43:36< Pentalis> From what I see in the problem, the only unknown thing is f(x). x is a variable, and in that case it tends to 0. So I can't think of other thing to solve the problem for than for f(x). 20100913 00:43:39-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100913 00:43:41< Gambit> #wesnoth-offtopic ? 20100913 00:43:51 * Pentalis promptly flees there 20100913 00:43:53-!- noy_ [~Noy@70.70.255.54] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 00:43:53-!- noy_ [~Noy@70.70.255.54] has quit [Changing host] 20100913 00:43:53-!- noy_ [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 00:48:05-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20100913 00:48:05-!- noy_ is now known as noy 20100913 00:48:42< un214> I have an example of how to get your opponent to attack you without exposing anything 20100913 00:49:15-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [] 20100913 00:49:25-!- KamusHadenes [~kamushade@hyadesinc/lord/hadenes/kamushadenes] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 00:52:29-!- mysticX [kocx@85.17.222.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20100913 00:54:13-!- FYMLIFYM [~12345@xdsl-87-78-157-170.netcologne.de] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 00:57:41-!- mysticX [zuuxiv@85.17.222.12] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 00:59:17-!- mysticX [zuuxiv@85.17.222.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100913 00:59:40-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20100913 01:01:20-!- mysticX [zasctc@85.17.222.12] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 01:18:01-!- ancestral [~ancestral@174-20-47-67.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: And that's the end of THAT chapter] 20100913 01:27:14-!- ilor__ [~ilor@aun118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20100913 01:27:21-!- bp0 [~bp@unaffiliated/bp0] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 01:55:14-!- Hulavuta [~Hulavuta@172.148.88.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100913 01:59:38-!- un214 [~quassel@adsl-75-45-0-228.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100913 02:28:50-!- Hulavuta [~Hulavuta@184.88.148.172] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 02:32:35-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@dhip-164.foss.residences.colby.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20100913 02:42:55-!- kian_ [~kian@84.123.212.245.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100913 02:43:37-!- joo [~joo@unaffiliated/joo] has quit [Quit: Goodnight.] 20100913 02:50:58-!- little_new [~little_ne@114.94.49.62] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 02:52:36-!- mysticX [zasctc@85.17.222.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100913 03:00:33-!- little_new [~little_ne@114.94.49.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20100913 03:10:17-!- Killcycle [~Killcycle@75-142-213-243.static.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: When I crash, I leave craters.] 20100913 03:10:46-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-185-8-197.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze] 20100913 03:13:22-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-185-8-197.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 04:05:55-!- alink [~alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 04:07:24< alink> Aethaeryn: lim(f(x)) = lim(f(x)/x^2 * x^2) = lim(f(x)/x^2) * lim(x^2) = 4 * 0 = 0. Where we use the rule about limit of a product (if both limits exist then limit of product is product of limits) 20100913 04:08:43-!- Hulavuta [~Hulavuta@184.88.148.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100913 04:36:41-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-176-19.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20100913 04:36:42-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 04:37:24-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-176-19.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 04:40:19-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20100913 04:40:48-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20100913 05:13:33-!- alink [~alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100913 05:23:02-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@225.189.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100913 05:23:59-!- Gambit [~Gambit@unaffiliated/gambit] has quit [Read error: Connection reset 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| Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20100913 13:21:15-!- Topic set by Shadowmaster [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] [Wed Aug 25 22:16:46 2010] 20100913 13:21:15[Users #wesnoth] 20100913 13:21:15[ ABCD ] [ DiRaven ] [ GGLucas ] [ knotwork ] [ Pentalis ] [ tparcina1 ] 20100913 13:21:15[ apoi ] [ Dragoth_jpn] [ Haldrik ] [ koan ] [ Queenie ] [ Vetinari ] 20100913 13:21:15[ Appleman1234] [ DreadKnight] [ happygrue ] [ Lcawte|Away] [ Rhonda ] [ Vorpal ] 20100913 13:21:15[ astraljava ] [ drry ] [ Hellrider ] [ lobby ] [ sacho ] [ VurtualRuler98] 20100913 13:21:15[ BenUrban ] [ elias ] [ hylje ] [ MadMerlin ] [ Sav ] [ wesbot ] 20100913 13:21:15[ bp0 ] [ erl ] [ isionous ] [ martin__ ] [ SekoIdiootti] [ Xjs|moonshine ] 20100913 13:21:15[ chris| ] [ Espreon ] [ Ivanovic ] [ MeccaGod ] [ shadowmaster] [ zookeeper ] 20100913 13:21:15[ Cookie ] [ ettin ] [ iwaim ] [ mysticX ] [ shikadibot ] 20100913 13:21:15[ daglees ] [ flypp ] [ KamusHadenes] [ namad7 ] [ Smar ] 20100913 13:21:15[ Daltx ] [ G-Lo ] [ Killcycle ] [ Necrosporus] [ Soliton ] 20100913 13:21:15-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 57 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 57 normal] 20100913 13:21:16-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org 20100913 13:21:22-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006 20100913 13:22:33-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth was synced in 85 secs 20100913 13:29:45-!- Gambit [~Gambit@unaffiliated/gambit] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 13:48:11-!- mysticX [esb@85.17.222.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100913 13:56:18-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@225.189.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 14:00:06-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 14:04:51-!- KingDread [~DreadKnig@79.117.33.92] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 14:08:20-!- DreadKnight [~DreadKnig@79.117.63.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20100913 14:11:49-!- mich- [~michele@87.18.247.220] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 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#wesnoth 20100913 18:32:04< FYMLIFYM> hi 20100913 18:37:46-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 18:39:16< hylje> hello FYMLIFYM 20100913 18:39:27< FYMLIFYM> =) hi 20100913 18:57:36-!- Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte 20100913 18:59:28-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Soliton 20100913 18:59:46-!- Netsplit over, joins: Soliton 20100913 18:59:58-!- shadowmaster changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Forums down, no particular ETA | Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.8.4 | Latest development version: 1.9.0 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20100913 19:04:19-!- martin_ [~martin@dtmd-4d0bf797.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20100913 19:07:45-!- Darker_Dreams [~Owner@HSI-KBW-078-042-083-166.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:09:26-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-102-104-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:09:26-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-102-104-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Changing host] 20100913 19:09:26-!- fendrin [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:10:53-!- FYMLIFYM [~12345@xdsl-87-78-144-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20100913 19:16:03-!- Maxx_ [5b80ed70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.128.237.112] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:17:58-!- LightFighter [~LightFigh@e196010.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:18:09-!- alink [~alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:18:16-!- matthiaskrgr_ [4d0a0e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.10.14.87] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:18:45-!- Shrike_ [586f7b60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.111.123.96] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:18:51-!- matthiaskrgr_ [4d0a0e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.10.14.87] has quit [Client Quit] 20100913 19:19:10< Shrike_> How long have the forums been down? 20100913 19:19:16-!- Johnny_lSoEl [~freakos@i59F7F28A.versanet.de] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:19:19< LightFighter> i dunno 20100913 19:19:34< shadowmaster> Shrike_: 20 minutes 20100913 19:19:53< Shrike_> Thanks. Any clue when they'll be back? 20100913 19:19:57< shadowmaster> no 20100913 19:20:07< Shrike_> OK. Cheers then 20100913 19:20:11< shadowmaster> I'd say a couple of hours though 20100913 19:20:18< shadowmaster> it all depends on my mood 20100913 19:20:19< LightFighter> :( 20100913 19:20:30-!- Shrike_ [586f7b60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.111.123.96] has quit [Client Quit] 20100913 19:20:36-!- MeccaGod [~majs@h14n4fls31o279.telia.com] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:22:48-!- FYMLIFYM [~12345@xdsl-87-78-144-173.netcologne.de] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:23:04-!- Darker_Dreams [~Owner@HSI-KBW-078-042-083-166.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100913 19:24:09< shadowmaster> if you want to accelerate things, spam the wiki with read requests 20100913 19:24:15< shadowmaster> search requests would also be a good idea 20100913 19:24:30< LightFighter> :? 20100913 19:24:38< LightFighter> i know nothing about the wiki 20100913 19:24:45< alink> stress test? 20100913 19:24:48< shadowmaster> wiki.wesnoth.org 20100913 19:25:00< shadowmaster> you are telling me you've never seen the wiki? 20100913 19:25:03< LightFighter> I know that, but read requests? 20100913 19:25:24< shadowmaster> that means reading pages 20100913 19:25:44< shadowmaster> geez, nobody understand the simplest technicisms... 20100913 19:25:51< shadowmaster> *understands 20100913 19:26:09< LightFighter> Well, I understand most of your macros, so.... 20100913 19:26:09< shadowmaster> alink: yes. 20100913 19:26:19< hylje> how about running ab on wiki.wesnothorg 20100913 19:26:34< shadowmaster> what's that? 20100913 19:26:39< shadowmaster> oh 20100913 19:26:42< hylje> apache benchmarker 20100913 19:26:43< shadowmaster> nvm 20100913 19:27:10< shadowmaster> no, I want actual usage. 20100913 19:27:22< shadowmaster> searches, reads. 20100913 19:27:40< shadowmaster> where's Aethaeryn when I need someone to help with tidying up the wiki anyway? 20100913 19:28:06< Gambit> shadowmaster: Want me to make a bot that follows the first link on every page? :D 20100913 19:28:15< Gambit> Or better, a random link! 20100913 19:28:18< shadowmaster> no, don't be abusive. 20100913 19:28:21< Gambit> Aww :( 20100913 19:28:44< shadowmaster> woah 20100913 19:28:47< shadowmaster> hold on 20100913 19:28:47< hylje> only humans are allowed to be abusive 20100913 19:28:53< hylje> no robots allowed 20100913 19:28:53< Gambit> It will sleep X/15 seconds between requests where X is the number of characters on the page. 20100913 19:28:57< Gambit> Adequate reading time :P 20100913 19:29:21< hylje> stress testing is by definition abuse 20100913 19:29:36< Gambit> Yeah and why waste humans' time when a web server can do it? :P 20100913 19:29:52< Gambit> But I don't have time to roll out a new robot like that anyway... 20100913 19:30:02 * Gambit goes back to more important things 20100913 19:30:15< Gambit> (yes that's right! something more important to me than the wesnoth forums) 20100913 19:30:31< shadowmaster> Gambit: NO IS NO 20100913 19:30:45< Gambit> Of course. 20100913 19:30:46< alink> Gambit: only when they are down ;-p 20100913 19:30:58< shadowmaster> don't pull off a Norbert, please. 20100913 19:37:51-!- joo [~joo@unaffiliated/joo] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:40:27-!- mk___ [4d0a0e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.10.14.87] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:41:00-!- mk___ [4d0a0e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.10.14.87] has quit [Client Quit] 20100913 19:42:36-!- Random_ [~random@209.97.84.180] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:44:33-!- matthiaskrgr_ [4d0a0e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.10.14.87] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:46:49-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:56:07-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 19:57:49-!- Random_ [~random@209.97.84.180] has left #wesnoth [] 20100913 20:01:44-!- martin_ [~martin@217.191.255.230] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 20:03:44-!- matthiaskrgr_ [4d0a0e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.10.14.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20100913 20:06:45-!- matthiaskrgr_ [4d0a0e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.10.14.87] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 20:08:54-!- mich- [~michele@87.18.247.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100913 20:10:48-!- Darker_Dreams [~Owner@HSI-KBW-078-042-083-166.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 20:21:20< shadowmaster> hi people, the wiki is going bye bye 20100913 20:22:27< matthiaskrgr_> ? o.o 20100913 20:22:28-!- cretin [62a92883@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.169.40.131] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 20:22:38< matthiaskrgr_> it's getting updated, too? 20100913 20:23:15< matthiaskrgr_> (assuming the forum gets updated ^^ ) 20100913 20:24:32-!- shadowmaster changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Forums and wiki down, no particular ETA | Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.8.4 | Latest development version: 1.9.0 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20100913 20:24:40< Gambit> Heh 20100913 20:24:56< Gambit> I don't think there's any updates planned. 20100913 20:25:14< hylje> just general churning 20100913 20:26:49-!- norbert_ [~norbert@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 20:52:08-!- martin_ [~martin@217.191.255.230] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20100913 21:08:55-!- whitecold [bc3dfb96@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.61.251.150] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 21:09:22-!- matthiaskrgr_ [4d0a0e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.10.14.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20100913 21:12:47-!- whitecold [bc3dfb96@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.61.251.150] has quit [Client Quit] 20100913 21:14:01-!- alpay [baa0108e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.160.16.142] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 21:17:21-!- bp0 [~bp@unaffiliated/bp0] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 21:17:25-!- Hulavuta [~Hulavuta@172.148.88.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 21:17:49-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin] 20100913 21:19:22-!- Dragoth_jpn [~Dragoth_j@pl584.nas933.p-miyagi.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: See You!] 20100913 21:19:54< LightFighter> BTW, the forums are online again 20100913 21:24:43-!- bp0 [~bp@unaffiliated/bp0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20100913 21:29:40-!- Chris7mas [~embryo@188.25.30.194] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 21:35:38< shadowmaster> LightFighter: I couldn't know. 20100913 21:35:49-!- Unnheulu [~ieuan@cpc5-pnth2-0-0-cust800.5-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20100913 21:36:02< LightFighter> shadowmaster: you didn't tell 20100913 21:36:19< shadowmaster> probably because I'm busy. 20100913 21:36:33< shadowmaster> can't you people live without the forums for a few hours? you did survive on 2008 without them for a month or so 20100913 21:37:09< LightFighter> shadowmaster: I can, I just said they were online 20100913 21:37:20< shadowmaster> then edit the topic :) 20100913 21:37:21< LightFighter> so people who can't would know 20100913 21:37:52< LightFighter> :| 20100913 21:37:56< shadowmaster> odds are they can't find their way into IRC anyway :) 20100913 21:38:06< LightFighter> :p 20100913 21:38:16< shadowmaster> or think it's a haxx0rz thing thanks to these series 20100913 21:38:58-!- martin_ [~martin@dtmd-4d0529ca.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 21:39:34< LightFighter> i thought that way too 20100913 21:39:38< LightFighter> 2 years ago 20100913 21:42:44-!- shadowmaster changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Wesnoth.org website stability issues - see http://tinyurl.com/3y33qhp | Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.8.4 | Latest development version: 1.9.0 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20100913 21:45:20-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 21:49:12-!- norbert_ [~norbert@82-171-70-54.ip.telfort.nl] has left #wesnoth ["Leaving"] 20100913 21:49:22-!- Darker_Dreams1 [~Owner@HSI-KBW-078-042-083-166.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 21:50:16-!- cretin [62a92883@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.169.40.131] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20100913 21:51:14-!- Darker_Dreams [~Owner@HSI-KBW-078-042-083-166.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20100913 21:53:30< Rhonda> shadowmaster: lol, cool forum avatar, didn't see that one yet! :) 20100913 21:54:09< shadowmaster> heh. 20100913 21:54:22< alpay> hey guys does anyone know how to fix the "out of syncro error" 20100913 21:54:38-!- SekoIdiootti [~chatzilla@cs148185.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20100913 21:54:48< shadowmaster> alpay: depends 20100913 21:55:01< shadowmaster> are you a scenario designer experiencing OOS with your own scenario? are you a user of a scenario? etc. 20100913 21:55:24< alpay> nope im just an user 20100913 21:56:34< shadowmaster> what scenario? what wesnoth version? what add-ons are installed? 20100913 21:57:07< shadowmaster> if it's one of the MP maps shipped with the game, we may want a post on the problem in Technical Support. But if it's an add-on, they you may want to contact the add-n's maintainer(s) 20100913 21:57:16< shadowmaster> *then 20100913 21:57:16< alpay> i was playing the colloseum with extended colloseum era and playing the 1.8.4 version 20100913 21:57:44< Gambit> You didn't happen to write it down did you? 20100913 21:57:47< Gambit> The error I mean? 20100913 21:57:53< Gambit> They're actually quite useful I've found. 20100913 21:58:05< Gambit> These error message things. 20100913 21:58:24< Soliton> only the very first though. 20100913 21:58:31< alpay> what do u mean? --- Log opened Mon Sep 13 22:01:29 2010 20100913 22:01:38-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 22:01:38-!- Topic for #wesnoth: Wesnoth.org website stability issues - see http://tinyurl.com/3y33qhp | Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.8.4 | Latest development version: 1.9.0 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20100913 22:01:38-!- Topic set by shadowmaster [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] [Mon Sep 13 21:42:44 2010] 20100913 22:01:38[Users #wesnoth] 20100913 22:01:38[ ABCD ] [ Espreon ] [ iwaim ] [ Nissarin ] 20100913 22:01:38[ alink ] [ ettin ] [ Johannes13 ] [ noy ] 20100913 22:01:38[ alpay ] [ fendrin ] [ Johnny_lSoEl] [ Queenie ] 20100913 22:01:38[ apoi ] [ FireFly ] [ joo ] [ Rhonda ] 20100913 22:01:38[ astraljava ] [ flypp ] [ KamusHadenes] [ Sav ] 20100913 22:01:38[ BenUrban ] [ FYMLIFYM ] [ knotwork ] [ sevis ] 20100913 22:01:38[ Carneus ] [ G-Lo ] [ koan ] [ shadowm_laptop] 20100913 22:01:38[ Chris7mas ] [ Gallaecio] [ Lcawte ] [ shadowmaster ] 20100913 22:01:38[ chris| ] [ Gambit ] [ LightFighter] [ shikadibot ] 20100913 22:01:38[ crimson_penguin] [ GGLucas ] [ lobby ] [ Smar ] 20100913 22:01:38[ Daltx ] [ H-Hour ] [ MadMerlin ] [ Vetinari ] 20100913 22:01:38[ Darker_Dreams1 ] [ Haldrik ] [ martin_ ] [ Vorpal ] 20100913 22:01:38[ DiRaven ] [ happygrue] [ Maxx_ ] [ VurtualRuler98] 20100913 22:01:38[ DreadKnight ] [ Hellrider] [ MeccaGod ] [ wesbot ] 20100913 22:01:38[ drry ] [ hylje ] [ mysticX ] [ Xjs|moonshine ] 20100913 22:01:38[ elias ] [ isionous ] [ namad7 ] [ zookeeper ] 20100913 22:01:38[ erl ] [ Ivanovic ] [ Necrosporus ] 20100913 22:01:38-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 67 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 67 normal] 20100913 22:01:38-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org 20100913 22:01:48-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006 20100913 22:02:46< H-Hour> does anyone know if there is a good description of out of sync errors anywhere? how they happen, how to avoid them? 20100913 22:03:05-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 22:03:12< Gambit> They happen because the game gets out of sync. 20100913 22:03:22< Gambit> And you avoid them by making sure everyone has the same data. 20100913 22:03:34< Gambit> And by not changing things in un-synchronous WML events. 20100913 22:03:44< Gambit> (such as name=select) 20100913 22:03:45-!- alink [~alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100913 22:04:42< alpay> oh btw i also installed some new eras 20100913 22:04:49< H-Hour> does that mean no message options can ever be used in multiplayer? 20100913 22:04:55< alpay> and a guys told me to delete them 20100913 22:04:59< Gambit> H-Hour: No. That is not what that means. 20100913 22:04:59< alpay> guy* 20100913 22:05:06-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth was synced in 216 secs 20100913 22:05:08< H-Hour> or is there somewhere a list of un-synchronous WML events? 20100913 22:05:46< alpay> and now i got a huge error message when charging the multiplayer window 20100913 22:05:49-!- matthiaskrgr_ [~matthias@dsdf-4d0a0e57.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 22:05:51< Gambit> However if you have a [message] with [option]s and all the players see it, and they all pick different options, that would cause OOS 20100913 22:06:02< alpay> and think i better re isntall the game >.< 20100913 22:06:38< H-Hour> i was going to check wiki for the message option that restricts it to a side, but it's down. is it for_side? 20100913 22:06:51< Gambit> side_for 20100913 22:07:06< H-Hour> i seem to be getting OOS even if we both choose the same option, but if there are computer players will that mess it up as well? 20100913 22:07:15-!- FYMLIFYM [~12345@xdsl-87-78-144-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20100913 22:07:24< Gambit> Umm I don't honestly remember. 20100913 22:07:31< matthiaskrgr_> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30992 is the place for (even small) terrain issues/glitches ? 20100913 22:07:31< Gambit> H-Hour: Are you both picking the first option? 20100913 22:07:48< Gambit> I imageine that'd be the one that the AI picks if it sees those things. 20100913 22:08:05< H-Hour> ahh interesting... 20100913 22:08:09< Gambit> Wait... computer players can't mess it up. They're on the host's computer. 20100913 22:08:20< Gambit> And I don't think they see [option]s 20100913 22:08:26< Gambit> I dunno... 20100913 22:08:32< Gambit> Do side_for= anyway :P 20100913 22:09:27< H-Hour> yeah i'll try it thanks 20100913 22:12:00< H-Hour> would it matter if i'm setting a variable during the options process... the sequence goes: while (variable) -> message -> option -> command -> set variable -> endwhile -> endlevel that uses the variable. does that sound like a bad sequence? or does that not matter? 20100913 22:12:49< Gambit> H-Hour: Yes. 20100913 22:13:06< Gambit> What's endwhile? 20100913 22:13:25< H-Hour> nothing, i just meant, when i set the variable, the while ends 20100913 22:13:27< Gambit> oh the message keeps getting displayed 20100913 22:13:32< Gambit> I gotcha now 20100913 22:13:35< Gambit> hmmm 20100913 22:13:39< Gambit> H-Hour: pastebin? 20100913 22:13:41< Gambit> shikadibot: paste 20100913 22:13:41< shikadibot> Gambit: Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com 20100913 22:14:21< H-Hour> ok, i will do so, but i use several macros in the message loop. give me a second I'll string them together so you can see the wml that's actually made 20100913 22:14:42< Gambit> You can include the macro code at the top if you want. No need to expand it all. 20100913 22:16:15-!- MeccaGod [~majs@h14n4fls31o279.telia.com] has quit [] 20100913 22:16:44< H-Hour> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/6D3SiV2P 20100913 22:17:31< H-Hour> the very first macro, CBS_LEVEL_WIN, is called when the scenario's win conditions are met (usually just when all leaders are dead) 20100913 22:17:33< Gambit> Are they defined in that order in the real code? 20100913 22:17:55< Gambit> Because you call CBS_OPTION_SCEN before it's define 20100913 22:17:57< H-Hour> yes except for CBS_OPTION_SCEN is not at the bottom, i just moved it there 20100913 22:18:01< Gambit> okay 20100913 22:18:14< H-Hour> ahh i didn't know that mattered. good to know 20100913 22:18:57< Gambit> H-Hour: So the message is only displayed to player 1 now? 20100913 22:19:30< H-Hour> i havent tested that yet.. i'm hoping if i do that i won't get oos errors 20100913 22:19:37< H-Hour> unfortunately my friend i usually test with is gone at the moment 20100913 22:24:23-!- ilor__ [~ilor@auy71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 22:25:31< H-Hour> oh, i guess i can make oos errors by running two coppies of the game. 20100913 22:25:46< Gambit> It still OOS's then? 20100913 22:26:57< H-Hour> no, i left out the side_for to make sure i could cause an OOS,. going to try now (sorry, doing two things at once) 20100913 22:27:16< Gambit> Ah gotcha. 20100913 22:27:20 * Gambit crosses fingers for you. :P 20100913 22:28:12-!- LightFighter [~LightFigh@e196010.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: LightFighter] 20100913 22:29:50-!- Hulavuta [~Hulavuta@172.148.88.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 22:32:37-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@dhip-164.foss.residences.colby.edu] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 22:32:47< H-Hour> ahh, i need a side_for for every message apparently 20100913 22:33:04< Gambit> Any message that changes the game 20100913 22:33:07< Gambit> If it's just dialog you're good. 20100913 22:33:26< matthiaskrgr_> a forum message can only have 2 attachments? 20100913 22:33:33< matthiaskrgr_> (forum post) 20100913 22:34:01< Gambit> Unless you're a wesnoth artist. 20100913 22:34:10< matthiaskrgr_> shall I make another post 20100913 22:34:13< Gambit> I think the limit for normal people is 5 though. Not two. 20100913 22:34:17< matthiaskrgr_> o.o 20100913 22:34:20< matthiaskrgr_> hmmm 20100913 22:34:21< Gambit> matthiaskrgr_: What're you posting exactly? 20100913 22:34:35< matthiaskrgr_> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30992&start=45 20100913 22:34:43< matthiaskrgr_> last post 20100913 22:35:25< Gambit> Yeah go ahead. 20100913 22:35:32< Gambit> How many of those've you got though? 20100913 22:35:32< matthiaskrgr_> = more posts? 20100913 22:35:41< Gambit> Can they be combined into one or two giant images? 20100913 22:35:42< matthiaskrgr_> hmm posting by finding :) 20100913 22:35:52< H-Hour> hmm, side_for kept the other player from seeing or making any choices, but i still got OOS errors 20100913 22:35:53< matthiaskrgr_> hmm I could try 20100913 22:36:22< Gambit> What are the OOS errors? 20100913 22:37:06< Gambit> [endlevel] has never been a very good friend to [multiplayer] v_v 20100913 22:37:42< Gambit> H-Hour: Also what is the event that calls this big nest of macros? 20100913 22:39:54-!- Soliton changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.8.4 | Latest development version: 1.9.0 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20100913 22:40:18< H-Hour> OOS error 1: http://pastebin.com/ZU2xkzwn 20100913 22:40:27< H-Hour> OOS error 2: http://pastebin.com/3Y81a977 20100913 22:41:01< H-Hour> the event that calls all those macros http://pastebin.com/Z7cShxNJ 20100913 22:41:45< H-Hour> sorry to hear endlevel is not good for multiplayer. i'm just trying to write something that allows the player to select the next scenario for basic 2p coop with a peristent army 20100913 22:42:21< Gambit> Those don't look like any OOS errors I've ever seen 0_0 20100913 22:42:24< Gambit> They look like save files 20100913 22:43:45-!- martin_ [~martin@dtmd-4d0529ca.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20100913 22:44:17< alpay> what happens if i delete the file in the cache folder? 20100913 22:44:23< alpay> files* 20100913 22:44:24< H-Hour> yeah, sorry i thought that's what you wanted. when i got OOS it asked if i wanted to save the errors and thats what it saved 20100913 22:44:30< H-Hour> should i be giving you the text from teh game? 20100913 22:44:33< Gambit> Yes 20100913 22:44:42< Gambit> H-Hour: Can you try an event that occurs a little later? 20100913 22:44:46< Gambit> Like say... name=recruit 20100913 22:44:47< Gambit> Or something. 20100913 22:44:52< Gambit> Just to test. 20100913 22:45:06< zookeeper> alpay, nothing, they just get regenerated the next time you start wesnoth or a particular campaign or something 20100913 22:45:08< H-Hour> ok 20100913 22:45:37< alpay> alright thx man 20100913 22:47:02< matthiaskrgr_> the editor is awesome XD 20100913 22:47:03-!- alpay [baa0108e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.160.16.142] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20100913 22:47:14< matthiaskrgr_> I think I even got something like an optical illusion :D 20100913 22:47:57-!- namad7 [aaaaa@c-71-60-40-72.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 20100913 22:50:16< H-Hour> progress: the first scenario did not OOS, but when i went to the next one and beat that (event name=die) and selected the next map, it did OOS, and i got an error *verification* checksum mismatch at 3,1! 20100913 22:50:25< H-Hour> i believe 3,1 is the coordinates of the enemy leader that was killed to win that scenario 20100913 22:52:08< Gambit> Well I'm afraid I've run out of time to help for now. Class in ~30 minutes and I've procrastinated some homework due. Can you post to the WML Workshop on the forums? 20100913 22:53:07< Gambit> Today's goings ons were much too exciting. Hopefully I can retype this lab in 30 minutes xD 20100913 22:53:20< H-Hour> no problem, thanks for the help gambit 20100913 22:53:34< Soliton> did you start wesnoth with -d? 20100913 22:53:42< Soliton> or --debug 20100913 22:53:50< Gambit> And yeah it looks like name=start is too early for [endlevel] 20100913 22:53:56< H-Hour> yes, i'm running --debug 20100913 22:54:21< Soliton> ok, that's the only way to get those OOS errors. 20100913 22:54:29< H-Hour> ahhh! i will try again 20100913 22:54:40< Soliton> not particularly tested so they might be false positives. 20100913 22:55:04< Soliton> they also might be a much better indication on when things go wrong. 20100913 23:00:57-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20100913 23:05:27-!- Johnny_lSoEl [~freakos@i59F7F28A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20100913 23:06:37-!- matthiaskrgr_ [~matthias@dsdf-4d0a0e57.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20100913 23:06:43-!- Laogeodritt [~Laogeodri@wikipedia/Laogeodritt] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 23:07:14< H-Hour> getting an OOS error `#SYNC: In recruit Dark Adept: has checksum *** while datasource has checksum **** (and they're not the same of course) 20100913 23:07:14-!- DiRaven [~diraven@60-11-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20100913 23:07:36< H-Hour> it happened when i recalled a unit 20100913 23:08:32< Soliton> sounds like a RNG desync. do they have different traits? 20100913 23:09:56< H-Hour> you mean different between the two scenarios or for each player? (the second player doesn't see the new recall) 20100913 23:10:13< Soliton> well, make him see it. 20100913 23:10:29< Soliton> the difference is between the two clients. 20100913 23:11:07< H-Hour> hmm, same traits 20100913 23:11:41< Soliton> any other difference? 20100913 23:11:59< Soliton> was there some WML run on the recalls? 20100913 23:13:16< H-Hour> there shouldn't have been. basically, i end a scenario, one player chooses the next scenario, it loads without oos errors, but then on recall i got the oos error 20100913 23:14:30< H-Hour> there's no complicated WML running. i've just set them up to test for OOS errors with the scenario selection... 20100913 23:15:17< Soliton> maybe it's just some HP/other stat refresh that recalls get and nothing game breaking. 20100913 23:15:48< H-Hour> yeah, i do seem to be able to keep going... i'm on 1.8.4, should i try 1.9 instead? 20100913 23:16:06 * Soliton shrugs. 20100913 23:16:26< H-Hour> ok, i will try posting on the WML workshop 20100913 23:16:36< Soliton> best is to figure out what the actual difference is that it's complaingin about. 20100913 23:16:54< Soliton> maybe with --debug it tells you more on stderr. 20100913 23:24:32-!- DDR_ [~chatzilla@66.183.113.224] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 23:28:29-!- SpoOkyMagician [~chatzilla@74-138-202-211.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 23:30:24-!- Hulavuta [~Hulavuta@172.148.88.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20100913 23:31:58 * SpoOkyMagician pokes shadowmaster 20100913 23:32:03 * shadowmaster stabs SpoOkyMagician 20100913 23:32:24< shadowmaster> what now? killer veggies? energy beings? 20100913 23:32:27< SpoOkyMagician> lol you didnt answer my question in lobby. wanna play 1v1? 20100913 23:32:34< shadowmaster> oh. 20100913 23:32:38< shadowmaster> I have sounds turned off. 20100913 23:32:45< shadowmaster> but, sure 20100913 23:32:48< SpoOkyMagician> ok 20100913 23:32:53< SpoOkyMagician> you can host 20100913 23:34:15-!- Chris7mas [~embryo@188.25.30.194] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20100913 23:34:16-!- Darker_Dreams1 [~Owner@HSI-KBW-078-042-083-166.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20100913 23:37:50-!- Hellrider [~Hell@host161-190-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Hellrider] 20100913 23:40:05-!- DDR_ [~chatzilla@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20100913 23:40:31-!- matthiaskrgr_ [~matthias@dsdf-4d0a0e57.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 23:41:13-!- Hulavuta [~Hulavuta@172.148.88.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 23:41:44< matthiaskrgr_> I hope Eleazar finds time to fix all these things >.> 20100913 23:43:05< shadowmaster> what things? 20100913 23:43:15< matthiaskrgr_> some terrain graphic glitches 20100913 23:43:42< matthiaskrgr_> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30992&start=45 20100913 23:45:23< matthiaskrgr_> I have to say that the graphics improved A LOT since I played the game first time which way 0.8.x or so.... 20100913 23:48:01< matthiaskrgr_> maybe you can make use of one (or more :D ) of these websites: http://www.reviewboard.org/ http://www.transifex.net/ http://buildbot.net/trac http://flattr.com/ 20100913 23:48:43< matthiaskrgr_> reviewboard was very very usefull during gsoc (for freedroidrpg ) 20100913 23:49:26< matthiaskrgr_> ah, ok, just saw you already use flattr :D 20100913 23:50:42-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-176-19.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20100913 23:52:25-!- alink [~alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth --- Log closed Tue Sep 14 00:00:23 2010