--- Log opened Fri Sep 17 00:00:41 2010
20100917 00:00:49< shadowm_laptop> anyone wants to play a game against me on the 1.8 server?
20100917 00:01:20< shadowm_laptop> no? k.
20100917 00:01:51< Blarumyrram> Oh, by the way, I couldn't connect to lobby with the 1.9.0 Windows binary when I tried; is this expected?
20100917 00:02:04< shadowm_laptop> yes.
20100917 00:02:13< shadowm_laptop> see the announcement in the forums and note the known issues section
20100917 00:02:26< shadowm_laptop> you can get 1.9.1 now
20100917 00:02:45< Gambit> Wow not even Blarumyrram read the release announcemenet?
20100917 00:02:58< Gambit> Ivanovic: For 1.10 you can just be like "yeah it's up... go download it."
20100917 00:03:09< shadowm_laptop> Gambit: sadly, it's yet another proof of the community's decay
20100917 00:03:19< Blarumyrram> I almost never read the release announcement, 99% of the time there's nothing interesting there
20100917 00:03:39< shadowm_laptop> there goes another proof.
20100917 00:03:44< shadowm_laptop> keep'em coming.
20100917 00:03:46< Blarumyrram> Although I just forgot to read it this time; it would've been the obvious place to look with this
20100917 00:03:54< Blarumyrram> The second most obvious place
20100917 00:03:59< shadowm_laptop> shikadibot: rtfm?
20100917 00:03:59< shikadibot> RTFM: read the fine/f***ing manual
20100917 00:04:00< Blarumyrram> The most obvious place would be the front page
20100917 00:04:14< Blarumyrram> Where it isn't
20100917 00:04:29< shadowm_laptop> Blarumyrram: good idea, but:
20100917 00:04:32< shadowm_laptop> Please have a look this forum thread to get a rough idea about those big changes (and some known problems)
20100917 00:04:39< shadowm_laptop> ("forum thread" is linkified)
20100917 00:04:52< shadowm_laptop> so you have no excuse.
20100917 00:05:11< Gambit> Blarumyrram: You're not alone though.
20100917 00:05:14< Blarumyrram> I have
20100917 00:05:22< Gambit> So far I have yet to meet someone who has read it :)
20100917 00:05:29< shadowm_laptop> go elsewhere  if you want to bitch about minor stuff.
20100917 00:05:46< shadowm_laptop> I've already adopted the policy of banning people for it.
20100917 00:05:49< shadowm_laptop> so, shoo.
20100917 00:06:10< Blarumyrram> shadowm_laptop, you have an unneeded space between "elsewhere" and "if"!
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20100917 00:06:16< shadowm_laptop> idiot.
20100917 00:06:33-!- mode/#wesnoth [+o shadowm_laptop] by ChanServ
20100917 00:06:46-!- mode/#wesnoth [+q-o *!*@wesnoth/artist/blarumyrran shadowm_laptop] by shadowm_laptop
20100917 00:06:54< Gambit> :(
20100917 00:07:00< Gambit> That did not go well.
20100917 00:07:09< shadowm_laptop> he likes to be like that.
20100917 00:07:17< shadowm_laptop> I'm fed up with people who are like that.
20100917 00:07:27< shadowm_laptop> we've been wasting our time by not banning them.
20100917 00:07:37< DreadKnight> erm
20100917 00:07:52 * shadowm_laptop raises eyebrow
20100917 00:08:14< shadowm_laptop> DreadKnight: yes? :)
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20100917 00:08:40 * SpoOkyMagician hides from shadowmaster
20100917 00:08:46< DreadKnight> shadowm_laptop, that dude contributed some nice structures to wesnoth :P
20100917 00:08:55< Gambit> Uhhh
20100917 00:08:58< shadowm_laptop> as if I couldn't tell.
20100917 00:08:59< DreadKnight> it was part of the community xD 
20100917 00:09:08< Gambit> You think shadowmaster doesn't know that?
20100917 00:09:09< shadowm_laptop> since I have committed some to the repo myself.
20100917 00:09:43< shadowm_laptop> that doesn't mean that he shouldn't know better.
20100917 00:10:07< Gambit> If anything; a higher degree of behavior should be expected.
20100917 00:10:13< DreadKnight> oh well :D
20100917 00:10:20 * SpoOkyMagician is wondering what zookeeper/bob_the_mighty are making/working on
20100917 00:10:42< Gambit> I've asked Bob a couple times. I think he's holding out!
20100917 00:11:07< SpoOkyMagician> he said "just testing something" to me.
20100917 00:11:25< Gambit> Yeah. I kind of want to think it's some awesome secret.
20100917 00:11:44< Gambit> But at the same time he could be being honest and it's just my overwhelming respect for him :\
20100917 00:12:01< SpoOkyMagician> same
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20100917 00:19:39< DreadKnight> shadowm_laptop, don't mind me, it's all good :D
20100917 00:20:27< DreadKnight> he was one of the first guys around I was getting to know better xD
20100917 00:20:56< shadowmaster> #wesnoth-offtopic still exists and he can talk there.
20100917 00:21:03< DreadKnight> mhm
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20100917 07:18:06< ais523> is it OK to discuss spoilers in here? it doesn't say in the topic
20100917 07:18:16< ais523> and it's always hard to tell with game-related channels
20100917 07:18:25< ais523> I think I found something rather dubious from a balance perspective...
20100917 07:19:19< Killcycle> Well, first you have to find someone in the IRC who's actually alive
20100917 07:19:25< Killcycle> ...best of luck :)
20100917 07:21:16< ais523> hmm, perhaps
20100917 07:21:20< ais523> it would still be nice to know the rules though
20100917 07:21:33< Killcycle> I'm clueless; just a friendly neighborhood lurker here
20100917 07:31:05< ais523> oh well, I assume eventually someone here will unidle
20100917 07:31:12< ais523> and answer my questions
20100917 07:31:17< ais523> and until then, I can just idle myself
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20100917 07:43:20< VurtualRuler98> ais523 wait, a balance issue?
20100917 07:43:41< ais523> I'm not sure; it only affects a single-player campaign
20100917 07:43:49< ais523> and may even be intentional, although it seems unlikely
20100917 07:44:33< ais523> but I came here because it seemed so out of place
20100917 07:44:39< VurtualRuler98> ...how bad is it?
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20100917 07:45:02< ais523> taking a particular path through a campaign lets you pretty much completely skip its final mission
20100917 07:45:19< ais523> due to what's arguably an AI error
20100917 07:45:30< VurtualRuler98> ...anything especially errory about it?
20100917 07:45:44< Killcycle> Did your computer combust spontaneously?
20100917 07:46:02< ais523> the fact that the AI could block the tactic by playing differently
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20100917 07:46:53< ais523> its play is reasonable in the short term, but makes no sense in the long term
20100917 07:47:03< ais523> so maybe just an AI shortcoming
20100917 07:47:46< johndh> Maybe the designer didn't expect you to do it either. :P
20100917 07:47:56< ais523> quite possibly
20100917 07:48:12< ais523> it was more an "I wonder if..." on my second playthrough
20100917 07:48:13< johndh> Which campaign are we talking about here?
20100917 07:48:16< ais523> HttT
20100917 07:48:44< ais523> where the final battle looks like it's really difficult and you're meant to play it out
20100917 07:51:16< johndh> Oh.  I've never had the patience to get past the first couple levels of HttT.  I found it rather boring.
20100917 07:51:17< Killcycle> *leaves to avoid spoilers
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20100917 07:52:21< ais523> hmm, still not sure what to do wrt spoilers
20100917 07:52:49< ais523> most channels either have a warning "do not spoil people here, they don't want you to" or a warning "if you come in here, expect people to spoiler you"
20100917 07:56:28< johndh> Hmm... dunno.  I'm new here.
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20100917 07:59:08 * ais523 reads logs to try to guess
20100917 08:02:52< ais523> hmm, I just read an entire week and couldn't tell
20100917 08:02:58< ais523> this is not a good sign for the channel's activity
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20100917 09:15:59< Soliton> what could be a spoiler when talking about the final battle in httt?
20100917 09:17:12< Cookie> lmaoo i google httt
20100917 09:17:15< Soliton> and no, there isn't any no spoiler policy here.
20100917 09:17:23< Cookie> and it has the correct meaning
20100917 09:17:24< Cookie> xD
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20100917 09:25:41< johndh> Yeah... those few people who haven't played through it already either don't care (like me) or already know what happens because of other campaigns.
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20100917 09:42:38< zookeeper> ais523, so what is the problem?
20100917 09:44:03< ais523> zookeeper: if you equip Li'sar with the sceptre of fire and void armour, then a) the AI doesn't attack her, because her defence is so high she'd hardly be scratched and would probably KO in response, b) she's a skirmisher (at level 3), so can just walk around enemy lines, and c) she can oneshot Asheviere, who isn't surrounded by allies on turn 7 or so when you reach her
20100917 09:44:30< ais523> so all you have to do is march Li'sar in with impunity into the enemy base and kill the enemy leader, and the computer doesn't even really try to stop you
20100917 09:44:48< ais523> meanwhile you just play the rest of your army for survivability, by spamming recruits or something like that
20100917 09:45:20< ais523> it's a near-guaranteed win in 7 or 8 turns depending on your luck (sometimes it takes Li'sar two turns to kill Asheviere)
20100917 09:45:44< ais523> for bonus points, Li'sar can mostly stick to castle terrain where she has insane defences, meaning that even if the enemy did attack it wouldn't really do much to her
20100917 09:46:16< ais523> the obvious ways to block this that I can see are either a) make Asheviere surround herself with enemies, so that Li'sar can't path to her, or b) remove level 3 Li'sar's skirmish ability
20100917 09:48:48< ais523> (I'm not entirely sure if this tactic could work with other skirmishers, but I doubt it, as apart from Li'sar-with-sceptre, skirmishers don't generally have insanely powerful magical attacks)
20100917 09:49:11< hylje> skirmishers in general are also squishy
20100917 09:49:31< ais523> yep
20100917 09:49:48< ais523> well, void armour overwrites your physical defences
20100917 09:50:04< ais523> so it doesn't really matter how squishy you were before; Li'sar's annoyingly squishy before you do that
20100917 09:50:14< ais523> (perhaps it's the armour that's overpowered, although I appreciate it's probably meant to be)
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20100917 10:08:32< Ivanovic> moin
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20100917 10:51:51< zookeeper> ais523, oops, sorry, missed the fact that you actually replied ;) reading...
20100917 10:52:08< ais523> sorry, I should have pinged you
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20100917 10:53:20< zookeeper> no, it's fine, i was just distracted. what version was that on again?
20100917 10:53:30< ais523> I'll check
20100917 10:53:58< ais523> 1.6.5
20100917 10:54:03< ais523> took me a while to find where the version number was
20100917 10:58:47< zookeeper> oh, that's pretty old. you should really get 1.8.4.
20100917 10:59:11< ais523> I'm using distro-packaged versions
20100917 10:59:27< zookeeper> now, the stats of li'sar or the items are still the same, but it's entirely possible that the AI is smarter and will actually attack her
20100917 10:59:55< ais523> I'd like to see if it actually wins
20100917 11:00:48< zookeeper> hard to say without trying
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20100917 12:48:57-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.8.4 | Latest development version: 1.9.1 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20100917 14:16:40< kian_> fendrin, 
20100917 14:16:42< kian_> ops
20100917 14:16:44< kian_> sry
20100917 14:18:20< fendrin> kian_: no problem
20100917 14:19:09< kian_> ;)
20100917 14:19:31< kian_> error channel and red xD
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20100917 17:29:26< Unnheulu> thespaceinvader, I think WoG is the same as frogatto too
20100917 17:29:39< thespaceinvader> WoG?
20100917 17:29:47< Unnheulu> World of Goo
20100917 17:31:28< hylje> world of skub
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20100917 18:50:52< DreadKnight> I wonder how many people around here would say WoG stands for that HoMM3 unofficial expansion, Wake of Gods :D
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20100917 20:40:03< SpoOkyMagician> i meant to ask but never found the time. Is it just me or is the "contributors" part in the help menu repeated twice? (or was this done for a reason)
20100917 20:41:43< Soliton> seems the whole thing is doubled.
20100917 20:41:51< SpoOkyMagician> heh
20100917 20:42:25< SpoOkyMagician> glad im not crazy. :P
20100917 20:42:46< SpoOkyMagician> (i knew something didnt look right)
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20100917 22:38:13< kian_> ntas'
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20100917 23:39:25< SpoOkyMagician> strange...
20100917 23:40:18< SpoOkyMagician> with [kill] you can have multiple id= correct? (ex: id=ugs_forest_guard_h,ugs_forest_guard_i,ugs_forest_guard_j)
20100917 23:40:28< zookeeper> no
20100917 23:40:38< SpoOkyMagician> only 1?
20100917 23:40:49< zookeeper> yes
20100917 23:40:58< SpoOkyMagician> meh alright (fixes)
20100917 23:41:09< zookeeper> of course you can use [or] to have several that way
20100917 23:41:52< SpoOkyMagician> its fine. but thanks for letting me know. curious, why cant we use multiple ids?
20100917 23:42:03< SpoOkyMagician> (just isnt coded?)
20100917 23:42:34< zookeeper> correct
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20100917 23:43:17< SpoOkyMagician> unfortunate... would it be possible to add this in the code? (should i ask for a feature request)
20100917 23:44:15< zookeeper> i have no idea how hard that'd be
20100917 23:44:34< SpoOkyMagician> i see. well, it can't hurt to ask. ;)
20100917 23:46:50-!- DiRaven [~diraven@52-130-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20100917 23:50:26< SpoOkyMagician> (submitted)
20100917 23:50:34 * SpoOkyMagician returns to what he was doing
20100917 23:50:45< Killcycle> Oh, zookeeper, I finally got around to trying that modded scenario for HttT: Siege of Elensefar
20100917 23:51:01< Killcycle> Took me forever and a day, I know :S 
20100917 23:52:18< Killcycle> After I actually beat it, I found that it wouldn't have made a huge difference once you've made your way through the city and have a moderate force, but if you haven't yet, the lessened swarms make it a lot more feasible. 
20100917 23:53:46-!- thespaceinvader [~chatzilla@wesnoth/artist/thespaceinvader] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]]
20100917 23:54:10< Killcycle> Thanks for it, anyway :)
20100917 23:54:14< zookeeper> Killcycle, okay, that's good i guess
--- Log closed Sat Sep 18 00:00:12 2010