--- Log opened Wed Oct 06 00:00:44 2010
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20101006 01:53:17< AI0867> http://wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31830&start=0 + http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SecretLore#Secrets_of_the_Elves
20101006 01:53:56< AI0867> esr needs to be poked about this
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20101006 02:15:37-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 162 bugs, 298 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20101006 02:19:28< fendrin> AI0867: I can't see evidence for most of what is claimed in that wiki page in LoW or SG.
20101006 02:23:00< fendrin> AI0867: Most information not only regarding elves on that page is outdated or just wrong.
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20101006 02:25:06< AI0867> fendrin: it's called 'secret' for a reason ;)
20101006 02:25:40< fendrin> :-)
20101006 02:26:18< fendrin> I am not even sure if the page should be corrected. I would just delete a page called "SecretLore" since we just don't have content here.
20101006 02:27:08< AI0867> anyway, you should talk to esr about this
20101006 02:27:24< AI0867> he's the source (if not writer) of most of that
20101006 02:28:04< fendrin> I will do so.
20101006 02:28:17< fendrin> But esr did not compose the page, did he?
20101006 02:28:55< shadowmaster> that's easy to check
20101006 02:29:10< shadowmaster> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=SecretLore&action=history
20101006 02:30:27< fendrin> So it is completely esr's work.
20101006 02:32:20< shadowmaster> unless it was his drunken alter ego's.
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20101006 02:32:28< shadowmaster> assuming he's got one.
20101006 02:32:54< shadowmaster> (if that were true, it would explain a lot of things)
20101006 02:33:03< fendrin> :-)
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20101006 05:03:36< CIA-35> eleazar * r46923 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: adding 'off-map' to the 'obstacles' editor group.
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20101006 06:07:29< Gambit> I have a interesting question for the smart people that inhabit this channel.
20101006 06:07:37< Gambit> What happens if you remote desktop into the host machine from a virtual one?
20101006 06:07:41< Gambit> What's it look like?
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20101006 09:32:06< Ivanovic> moin
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20101006 10:30:00< ancestral> Anyone on who knows a thing or two with wmlparser.py?
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20101006 11:56:15< AI0867> third time he leaves before I can answer or he can ask his actual question...
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20101006 14:01:38< Gambit> Ivanovic: Someone on the forums wants to know if it'd be possible to make it so the .po files had variables in them: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=31821&p=459913#p459729
20101006 14:02:53< Ivanovic> possible in theory but better keep a list to reference unit type names and whatnot
20101006 14:03:11< Ivanovic> simply because depending on the use case the name might have to be adjusted what is not possible when using variables all around the place
20101006 14:03:29< Ivanovic> in fact variables make things harder to translate in all ways that might be required
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20101006 15:08:03< stikonas> yeah, variables already cause some problems in translation
20101006 15:08:21< stikonas> I have to simply delete some names, becaus it is not possible to adjust grammatical case
20101006 15:11:48< stikonas> i.e. in strings like: Hello, $intl_ally_name!
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20101006 15:44:08< CIA-35> fendrin * r46924 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/low-macros.cfg: LoW: Removed the lvl2 Dwarvish Berserker from Olurf's recruit list macro.
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20101006 15:59:16< CIA-35> fendrin * r46925 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/characters.cfg: LoW: Extended the PLAYABLE macro with attributes controller=human and persistence=yes.
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20101006 16:00:05< gabba> Hi
20101006 16:00:55< CIA-35> fendrin * r46926 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg: LoW 01: Determine the next scenario from the difficult level being choosen.
20101006 16:01:59< CIA-35> fendrin * r46927 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/03_Kalian.cfg: LoW 03: Added another TODO.
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20101006 16:03:32< CIA-35> fendrin * r46928 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/04_Elvish_Treasury.cfg: LoW 04: Removed attributs now covered by the PLAYABLE macro.
20101006 16:04:16< CIA-35> fendrin * r46929 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/maps/Kalian_map.cfg: LoW Kalian map: Removed the label for the "Great Tree" where is now a fountain/pool.
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20101006 16:05:02< CIA-35> fendrin * r46930 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/09_Bounty_hunters.cfg: LoW 09: Added save_id attributes to make sure persistence works.
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20101006 16:08:29< CIA-35> fendrin * r46931 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/10_Cliffs_of_Thoria.cfg: 
20101006 16:08:29< CIA-35> LoW 10: Corrected multiplayer side setup.
20101006 16:08:29< CIA-35> Called the right gold macro.
20101006 16:08:29< CIA-35> Added another side for Cleodil's player.
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20101006 17:48:36< CIA-35> alink * r46932 /trunk/changelog: update changelog
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20101006 18:07:48< CIA-35> alink * r46933 /branches/ogl/src/ (sdl_utils.cpp sdl_utils.hpp): Rewrite surface to allow also storing a texture in it.
20101006 18:07:49< CIA-35> alink * r46934 /branches/ogl/src/ (sdl_utils.cpp sdl_utils.hpp): 
20101006 18:07:50< CIA-35> Start to use texture, but use too many for the moment.
20101006 18:07:50< CIA-35> Framerate several times better here but only beats trunk SDL on empty map (and still slow on complex ones).
20101006 18:07:50< CIA-35> No clipping yet, causing glitches with HP bars and screen's edges. I will fix that later.
20101006 18:07:56< CIA-35> alink * r46935 /branches/ogl/src/ (image.cpp sdl_utils.cpp sdl_utils.hpp widgets/textbox.cpp): Rename a function
20101006 18:08:00< CIA-35> alink * r46936 /branches/ogl/src/ (builder.cpp image.cpp image.hpp): 
20101006 18:08:00< CIA-35> Optimize texture usage by skipping empty terrain images (created by hex-cutting)
20101006 18:08:00< CIA-35> Framerate several times better here and twice better than trunk SDL.
20101006 18:08:00< CIA-35> Optimize terrain animation. Possible glitch with some multi-hex ones (but windmills are ok)
20101006 18:08:01< CIA-35> Remove most of the noise from :layers.
20101006 18:08:37< alink> \o/  speed is nice now, at least here
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20101006 18:09:25< alink> Can redraw full complex map (:benchmark) at >50 fps. And empty map at 200fps
20101006 18:10:54< alink> and still other opimizations planned.
20101006 18:12:37< alink> r46936 should be ported to trunk, but I need to fix its tiny regression first and maybe some polishing too
20101006 18:13:07< alink> and I hope that merging things in both ways will not be messy
20101006 18:14:49< alink> it will also allow to remove my WML optimization about using single hex macro for water animation
20101006 18:16:03< Ivanovic> alink: cool, directly testing things...
20101006 18:17:28< alink> note that the glitches at the edges of the screen are known and almost looks cool since it creates a sort of round planet effect
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20101006 18:18:19< alink> well, really "sort of" since it's square and as other bugs like blinking etc
20101006 18:21:02< alink> Ivanovic: I hope that I will not have driver problems this time
20101006 18:22:15< Ivanovic> have you also changed the main menu already?
20101006 18:22:29< alink> it still use the same double buffer trick, and just add simple texture calls. But with such speed, I will soon be able to do full redraw and use normal double buffering
20101006 18:22:40< alink> Ivanovic: no, nothing should have changed there
20101006 18:22:50< alink> in fact, not even tested :)
20101006 18:23:24< alink> Ivanovic: all seems ok, problem there ?
20101006 18:23:44< Ivanovic> things look okay at first glance
20101006 18:23:55< Ivanovic> asking about the main menu because of r600g that has broken tiling
20101006 18:24:01< Ivanovic> currently testing with r600c
20101006 18:24:15< Ivanovic> there are some glitches at the border of the game screen (map part) when scrolling around
20101006 18:24:19< alink> texture are mainly used for terrains and units, in fact for all cached images
20101006 18:24:32< alink> Ivanovic: yes I mentionned that ^
20101006 18:25:08< Ivanovic> speed in 1024x768 at the top left corner of the first map of two brothers is between 28 and 33fps while idle
20101006 18:25:13< alink> floating stuff is probably still slow
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20101006 18:25:38< alink> hmmm that's low :-/
20101006 18:25:46< alink> Ivanovic: with :benchmark you mean ?
20101006 18:26:04< Ivanovic> when scrolling around over some animated terrains it stutters a little, the rest is really fast
20101006 18:26:09< Ivanovic> no, plain :fps mode
20101006 18:27:02< alink> ah but there is animated water there
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20101006 18:28:32< Ivanovic> yes, when in the area with water it is slowing down to 18 to 22fps
20101006 18:28:51< alink> still much slower than here. I am at 1000 fps (max) there
20101006 18:28:52< Ivanovic> running the game in 1920x1200 is not possible, fps around 0
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20101006 18:30:24< Ivanovic> and yes, the open source graphics driver is not the fastest there is
20101006 18:30:35< alink> perhaps you have a different bottleneck. My double buffer trick is cheap here, but I suspect that some other hardware/driver are less good with it
20101006 18:30:50< Ivanovic> though once wesnoth is "done" we can ask the mesa devs to profile things and speed the driver up accordingly to the bottlenecks
20101006 18:31:31< alink> well, I still have a lot of things not optimized at all
20101006 18:31:57< Ivanovic> yeah
20101006 18:32:24< alink> I should also try adding a switch to use normal double buffering. It's already fast enough here and may be better for other drivers
20101006 18:32:26< Ivanovic> i think once wesnoth is "really" converted we can ask the mesa devs to have a look at things, profie stuff and thus speedup the driver
20101006 18:32:41< Ivanovic> since it is likely that we will find some bottlenecks in the open source driver
20101006 18:33:09< Ivanovic> (sadly it is rather difficult for the devs to profile eg ut2004 since there are no sources of it)
20101006 18:34:14< alink> Ivanovic: I doubt that they will like that, wesnoth is clearly not the typical 3D app and because it evolves from SDL, code will not follow good OpenGL practise and design
20101006 18:34:43< alink> but maybe much later after more rewrite
20101006 18:36:00< alink> I mean someone writing a wesnoth-like from scratch in OpenGL will code things totally differently 
20101006 18:36:29< Ivanovic> sure
20101006 18:36:57< Ivanovic> though if we find some areas where the driver indeed does have bottlenecks it is likely that the devs will at least have a look and consider improving it
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20101006 18:38:26< alink> One obvious flaw that I have now is too many texture switches, which is a classical optimization target. But I have ideas how to fix that.
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20101006 18:39:18< alink> Ivanovic: perhaps test on an empty map in editor, to see how fps improves 
20101006 18:39:35< alink> since here it 4x better
20101006 18:39:57< alink> tip: turn :benchmark in game and quit to editor to have it there
20101006 18:40:49< Ivanovic> started using "wesnoth-gl --max-fps 1000 --fps"
20101006 18:41:27< alink> ;benchmark override that anyway
20101006 18:41:34< Ivanovic> the fps number fluctuates too much, something mostly with a 2 at the beginning
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20101006 18:42:15< alink> yes --max-fps 1000 is crazy when there is nothing to redraw
20101006 18:42:17< Ivanovic> and how to input :benchmark when just in the editor?
20101006 18:42:26< Ivanovic> that is why i am using this setup for testing
20101006 18:42:27< alink> <alink> tip: turn :benchmark in game and quit to editor to have it there
20101006 18:43:09< alink> not having console in editor really annoy me, but this trick works for :benchmark and :sunset
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20101006 18:45:18< Ivanovic> 46 to 55fps in the editor on an empty map in 1024x768 with :benchmark set
20101006 18:46:53< alink> hmmm better but the difference is much smaller than with mine
20101006 18:47:34< Ivanovic> in plain svn i get 1000fps in the editor in normal mode (with --max-fps 10000)
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20101006 18:48:55< Ivanovic> in svn in :benchmark i get 110 to 150 fps in the editor on an empty map (reliable numbers not readable)
20101006 18:49:23< alink> ok according to this results, it seems that texture switches is not your bottleneck
20101006 18:49:49< alink> so I should focus on the normal-double-buffer option first
20101006 18:50:35< alink> Ivanovic: I assume that svn = trunk (since ogl branch is also in svn)   ;-p
20101006 18:50:42< Ivanovic> yeah
20101006 18:51:23< alink> Ivanovic: ok and thanks for testing btw
20101006 18:51:31< Ivanovic> you're welcome
20101006 18:52:30< alink> I am just a bit disappointed that you don't have the  same nice boost that I have here :-/
20101006 18:52:51< Ivanovic> uhm, the boost *is* really nice
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20101006 18:54:41< alink> yeah it's also faster on yours, but the multiplication factor was really big here, something like :benchmark going from 3fps to 60fps
20101006 18:56:02< alink> which meant job finished here :-)
20101006 18:56:55-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101006 18:57:11< alink> anyway still a lot of things to do
20101006 19:09:15-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101006 19:10:25< [Relic]> Hello :)
20101006 19:26:36< loonycyborg> Hi :)
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20101006 20:15:56< mordante> servus
20101006 20:16:50< Ivanovic> hi mordante
20101006 20:16:57< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20101006 20:17:32< Ivanovic> mordante: you should check how wesnoth-gl works for you now
20101006 20:18:08< mordante> Ivanovic, reading the logs and just fired up the compiler to test ;-)
20101006 20:18:16< Ivanovic> alink: even with trying to enforce softrware mode it seems to be reasonable fast!
20101006 20:20:18< Ivanovic> WOW
20101006 20:20:32< Ivanovic> gallium software renderer seems to be a whole lot faster than r600 classic
20101006 20:20:37< boucman> alink: once 10.10 is out, i'll install it on my non-accelerated netbook
20101006 20:20:39< mordante> Ivanovic, I also expect the mesa dev rather look at something like warzone2100 
20101006 20:22:59< Ivanovic> alink: okay, found some glitche
20101006 20:23:03< Ivanovic> +s
20101006 20:23:15< Ivanovic> i let the game run the first two brothers scenario in :droid mode
20101006 20:23:22< Ivanovic> looks like the health bars are somehow borked
20101006 20:24:40< Ivanovic> cf http://imagebin.org/117290
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20101006 20:25:46< Ivanovic> (done worry about the "duplicate" spearmen a little left from the middle, this one is currently moving)
20101006 20:26:16< Ivanovic> as you see i get above 20fps in softwaremode with gallium software renderer in 1024x768 (music active)
20101006 20:28:29< mordante> alink, it seems the lists on the right are scaled in the x direction, you can see it in Ivanovic's screenshot, better visible with grid on
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20101006 20:29:01< Ivanovic> alink: and there are some glitches with terrains
20101006 20:29:15< Ivanovic> you see one sample right above the buttommost spearman
20101006 20:29:19< mordante> alink, well at the top the same issue
20101006 20:29:36< Ivanovic> mordante: that the border is borked is known
20101006 20:31:47< mordante> ok 
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20101006 20:32:07< mordante> btw the submerged unit also looks shrunken 
20101006 20:33:47< Ivanovic> submerged is somehow borked, the unit preview is borked, ...
20101006 20:35:52< alink> back
20101006 20:37:11< alink> yeah there are glitches, code not finished yet. I mentioned it in the commit messages
20101006 20:37:28< alink> <CIA-35> No clipping yet, causing glitches with HP bars and screen's edges. I will fix that later.
20101006 20:37:52< alink> but double spearman is weird
20101006 20:37:59< Ivanovic> this one is a unit moving
20101006 20:38:16< Ivanovic> no render bug but a screenshot taken out of "droided game"
20101006 20:39:31< alink> I still don't see how that could happen, and even less any link with the texture change
20101006 20:40:05< Ivanovic> there is no duplicate spearman!
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20101006 20:40:23< alink> you mean it's 2 different units ?
20101006 20:40:25< Ivanovic> it just looks like because the unit is moving to the front and the screenshot was taking while it was just at the hex of the other unit
20101006 20:40:27< Ivanovic> exactly
20101006 20:40:33< alink> oh ok; goog :)
20101006 20:40:39< alink> *good
20101006 20:40:41< Ivanovic> the issues you can see there are:
20101006 20:41:12< Ivanovic> terrains (even in the middle of the map!) not always correctly displayed, hp bars broken, preview image or units in the right pane somehow shrunk
20101006 20:41:18< mordante> alink, no speed improvements for me :-(
20101006 20:41:34< Ivanovic> not in the pic: units shown badly when in water
20101006 20:41:35< alink> mordante: :-(
20101006 20:41:58< mordante> but I use an old OGL stack so that might also be to blame
20101006 20:42:11< Ivanovic> (mine is as new as it can get regarding mesa)
20101006 20:43:25< nNa> Good evening
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20101006 20:43:54< boucman> hey gabba
20101006 20:43:59< boucman> glad to see you :)
20101006 20:44:07< mordante> Ivanovic, saw this one? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?16827
20101006 20:44:17< mordante> btw the link in the report is interesting
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20101006 20:44:45< Ivanovic> it is broken
20101006 20:45:04< Ivanovic> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/doc/manual/manual.gl.html?revision=46906
20101006 20:45:46< mordante> I noticed that, but like the <strong></strong> replacement 
20101006 20:46:00< Ivanovic> it is something gna automagically does with terms inside *
20101006 20:46:16< Ivanovic> and i know the reason for this: my tools used for conversion don't know the langcode gl no more
20101006 20:46:30< Ivanovic> this makes them spit out hundreds of errors whenever i rebuild the manual
20101006 20:46:38< Ivanovic> but i got no clue how to tackle the issue
20101006 20:47:20< alink> Ivanovic: ok hp, submerged, screen edge are caused by clipping not coded yet. Sidebar is weird, but I also have it. Terrain glitches in middle of screen may be caused by scrolling (translated edge glitches). Unless it happens  without scrolling?
20101006 20:47:53< Ivanovic> alink: yeah, might be some scrolling leftovers
20101006 20:48:17< alink> hovering the mouse on broken hexes after scrolling should fix leftovers
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20101006 20:48:27< Ivanovic> yes, it does
20101006 20:48:49< alink> ok so that's all from clipping, except the sidebar one
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20101006 20:52:03< boucman> :(
20101006 20:55:32< alink> mordante: btw, is there already a simple way to triggers a full redraw of GUI2? If possible just reblit the canvas thing, without rebuilding it. No need of something clean, just to allow passing titlescreen if I add a "redraw each frame" option for test
20101006 20:58:39< alink> hmmm unless I use another global framebuffer trick, maybe better since it will work for GUI1 too. I should try that first
20101006 21:01:35< mordante> alink, what kind of redraw do you exactly want?
20101006 21:02:40< alink> mordante: imagine that something blank the screen every frame, is there a function or event redrawing the screen
20101006 21:02:42< alink> ?
20101006 21:02:56< fendrin> wesbot: seen timotei?
20101006 21:02:56< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick timotei last spoke 13d 10h ago.  8d 7h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Read error: Connection reset by peer
20101006 21:03:05< fendrin> wesbot: seen timotei_?
20101006 21:03:06< wesbot> fendrin: Person, who 27d 10h ago used nick timotei_, 27d 10h ago as timotei was here and on the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]
20101006 21:04:30< mordante> alink, every frame?
20101006 21:04:54< alink> yeah, but no need to think about it now, I will try a framebuffer trick first
20101006 21:06:35< mordante> alink, gui/widgets/window.cpp:623 has a trick for it
20101006 21:07:24< mordante> not sure whether it works properly 
20101006 21:07:38< alink> mordante: ok thanks
20101006 21:09:09< mordante> otherwise you can look at the code block starting at 558 and let both branches do the full redraw
20101006 21:10:09< alink> ok, 623 seems to triggers some redraw but sometimes tooltip segfault
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20101006 21:11:04< mordante> changing the dirty_list_ in the loop looks suspicous
20101006 21:12:01< mordante> I would expect the code before the loop, maybe a bad merge somewhere
20101006 21:12:48< alink> I bookmarked it, but I should really try the global way first, since GUI1 will be hard to hack for that
20101006 21:13:45< mordante> ok
20101006 21:14:27< mordante> well once you're ready for it I'd like to look at how to adapt gui2 for OGL especially canvas.cpp should be rewritten
20101006 21:14:33< alink> that's why I loved my SDL emulator, need need to adapt all these various parts (GUI1/2, theme, map, etc...)
20101006 21:14:41< mordante> there I draw lines a pixel at the time
20101006 21:14:47< alink> s/need/no
20101006 21:15:07< mordante> yeah I like your approach
20101006 21:15:09< alink> ah yeah I saw weird line drawing code there :)
20101006 21:16:02< mordante> Bresenham isn't weird ;-)
20101006 21:18:04< alink> oh I didn't recognize it
20101006 21:18:45< mordante> reading comment helps :-P
20101006 21:19:12< alink> but IIRC the weird part was how the rectangle stuff used lines
20101006 21:20:47< mordante> oh that's because line thickness isn't implemented and didn't want to blit the same area twice
20101006 21:21:07< mordante> it might be faster, but didn't profile it
20101006 21:21:30< alink> I think I see it, it's using draw_line to fill the rectangle
20101006 21:22:00< alink> because   // The fill_rect_alpha code below fails
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20101006 21:22:27< alink> I changed how it works in the ogl branch, maybe I should port it to trunk
20101006 21:22:52< alink> IIRC fill_rect_alpha was the only code using global alpha for SDL surface
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20101006 21:24:16< mordante> ok feel free to rewrite canvas accordingly
20101006 21:26:41< alink> oh I prefer not touching canvas. I could try if my change fixed the problem with fill_rect_alpha there, but I will focus on ogl now, since it allows new ways to render rectangles
20101006 21:27:08< mordante> also fine with me
20101006 21:27:10< alink> or polygons :)
20101006 21:27:36< alink> or even polyhedron, but that's for wesnoth 3.0
20101006 21:27:41< mordante> and of course OGL will force a rewrite of canvas, but I consider that a good thing :-)
20101006 21:28:59< mordante> I'm off now, bye
20101006 21:29:01< alink> ok, I need to go, I get back to you if my framebuffer idea fails
20101006 21:29:08< alink> mordante: lol, bye
20101006 21:29:12< mordante> ok see you later
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20101006 21:38:46< gabba> hey boucman
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20101006 21:38:50< boucman> :)
20101006 21:39:05< gabba> yeah, just showing up so people don't think I'm dead :D
20101006 21:39:19< boucman> well, you succeded in that regard :)
20101006 21:39:26< boucman> so, how is it going ?
20101006 21:39:33< gabba> good first step, he he
20101006 21:39:49< gabba> well, I'm preparing for a wonderful math exam tonight
20101006 21:39:59< gabba> double integrals and that kind of fun
20101006 21:40:17 * boucman was never good at analysis
20101006 21:40:24< boucman> i'm more of an algebra person
20101006 21:40:52< gabba> maybe I'll finally have some coding time next week once this is over
20101006 21:41:08< boucman> hopefully :)
20101006 21:41:12< gabba> how 'bout you, doing good?
20101006 21:41:22< boucman> yes, fixing some small stuff here and there...
20101006 21:42:01< boucman> zookeeper took over the terrain macro, so now I'm catching up on bugs and patches, trying to fix something EP has been bugging me about for a long time, that sort of stuff
20101006 21:42:16< boucman> i'll be away for most of november, though...
20101006 21:43:03< gabba> Sounds good. The volume of messages has died down a lot on IRC after GSoC, isn't it?
20101006 21:43:20< boucman> yes, indeed
20101006 21:43:50< boucman> i've assigne a FR to you recently... the "execute all" command, just as a reminder since you had it planned anyway
20101006 21:44:13< gabba> Thanks, that's a good use of the tracker
20101006 21:44:40< gabba> Oh well, I gotta go convert a problem to polar coordinates, if you'll excuse me... not that I'm particularly enthusiastic
20101006 21:45:25< gabba> See you next week, hopefully
20101006 21:45:32< boucman> see you :)
20101006 21:45:48< gabba> :)
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20101006 22:40:30< kitty_> Hi! Du wolltest was besprechen?
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20101006 22:45:48< Ivanovic> kitty_: you should mention some nickname connected to "du"
20101006 22:45:50< Ivanovic> ;)
20101006 22:46:15< kitty_> grmbl, sorry - i just typed in the wrong window....
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20101006 23:12:23< zookeeper> kitty_, i haven't heard anything from esr regarding relnan's gender switch, but i think i'll just commit all the portraits now, make relnan use some generic portrait (i'll see which one fits best) and then switch to the new portrait when the time comes.
20101006 23:12:47< zookeeper> i take it that you're not planning on revising any of them anymore?
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20101006 23:13:42< kitty_> zookeeper: please wait, there is still one of them unfinished, dommel should get finieshed sometime next week or is there a release pending?
20101006 23:14:28< zookeeper> no, i can wait just fine
20101006 23:14:41< boucman> night all
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20101006 23:14:56< zookeeper> looks like i completely forgot about dommel
20101006 23:15:31< kitty_> zookeeper: i'll ping you when i'm done
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20101006 23:15:59< zookeeper> kitty_, sure, or just say you're done in the thread since i'll read it anyway
20101006 23:16:07< kitty_> ah ok
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 07 00:00:50 2010