--- Log opened Sun Nov 07 00:00:48 2010
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20101107 00:07:13 * Jetrel agrees.
20101107 00:07:57< silene> i don't think theming is that useless for umc; for instance, exotic addons (e.g. zookeeper's proximity) could well use a completely different interface, since most of the default interface is useless for them
20101107 00:08:32< Jetrel> silene:  font licensing doesn't apply to characters generated by the font, only the font itself.
20101107 00:08:57< Jetrel> Otherwise no one could ever do _anything_ with photoshop, because all of those fonts are commercial.
20101107 00:09:31< Crab_> silene: I think 'could well use a completely different interface' part can be handled with some lua/wml-based API for creating custom controls/dialogs (e.g. inventory screens)
20101107 00:09:47< Jetrel> If an individual has a licensed copy of a font, anything they create with it is entirely owned by them.
20101107 00:11:18< silene> Jetrel: are you sure? then what's the point of the font license if you can use the characters wherever you want?
20101107 00:12:15< Jetrel> silene:  yes, I'm sure - the point of the font license is you have to _pay_ for the font to have the right do that, and you can't redistribute the font itself, just end-products created with it.
20101107 00:12:42< silene> Jetrel: are you saying that if I output all the characters into a high resolution bitmap and then use them to output text in any software, include commercial ones, then i'm fine just because i output the characters beforehand? i don't believe you
20101107 00:12:54< Jetrel> silene:  You're prohibited only from re-creating what would functionally be a new font.
20101107 00:13:08< Jetrel> So in that case, yes, that would be prohibited.
20101107 00:13:46< silene> Crab_: you missed my point, i'm talking about removing controls, not adding ones
20101107 00:14:02< Jetrel> But if you made any pamphlet, or logo, or whatever - if you've paid for the font, then you own what you made with it.
20101107 00:14:27< Jetrel> silene:  it's the same as assuming that just because you create a document in MS Word doesn't imply MS owns it.
20101107 00:15:22< silene> Jetrel: actually, ms word's license explicitly states that it is the case, if i remember correctly
20101107 00:15:46< Jetrel> silene:  bullshit.  That's absolutely ludicrous.
20101107 00:16:09< Jetrel> If an author writes a book in MS Word, microsoft doesn't own the book.
20101107 00:17:29< silene> Jetrel: come on, that's not what i'm saying; what i'm saying is that the license explictly states that documents generated by word for any usage (my point was about the explict thing)
20101107 00:18:43< Jetrel> I can't parse what you're saying, then.
20101107 00:20:17< silene> Jetrel: "just because you create a document in MS Word doesn't imply MS owns it", that's true, but only because word's license explictly states it
20101107 00:21:13< Crab_> silene: can you help me a bit ? review a small lua function http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/iD6srDTd - it works, but is there a better way to do it ?
20101107 00:21:28< Jetrel> silene:  no, that's assumed for all software tools.
20101107 00:21:56< Jetrel> In fact, for all _tools_, period.
20101107 00:22:24< Jetrel> Just because Bic manufactures a pen does not mean they own what you write with it.  Just because Black-and-Decker manufactures a hammer does not mean they own what you build with it.
20101107 00:23:00< silene> Jetrel: you are so wrong it is incredible
20101107 00:23:02< Jetrel> They only way they own something is if they explicitly state they own everything created with something.
20101107 00:23:15< Jetrel> silene: you are so wrong it is incredible
20101107 00:23:38< Jetrel> Maybe this is some huge difference in french versus US copyright law?
20101107 00:24:15< silene> Jetrel: i'm working for a software company, i'm dealing with software licenses in my everyday life, we always ensure that we have such clauses in the licenses
20101107 00:24:43< Jetrel> Yes, and I work with dozens of developers as well.
20101107 00:25:52< Jetrel> I mean, christ, most EULAs aren't even legally enforceable, because of the misconceptions so many companies have about the law.
20101107 00:28:00< Jetrel> But honestly, the entire design industry couldn't exist if what you're saying was true.
20101107 00:28:10< Jetrel> Designers create documents every day and own them completely.
20101107 00:28:59< zookeeper> i assume fonts to work like instrument samples: you can buy the samples and then make whatever you want with them as long as you're not effectively just re-distributing the samples (like making a track which just sequentially plays every note). can't see how it could work any other way, really.
20101107 00:29:49< Jetrel> Exactly!
20101107 00:30:57< zookeeper> oh well, gotta go to bed...
20101107 00:31:25 * zookeeper isn't unhappy to not engage in yet another license discussion
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20101107 00:43:01< CIA-81> crab * r47470 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: let modify_ai in event use side that defaults to 1
20101107 00:44:07< CIA-81> crab * r47471 /trunk/ (10 files in 6 dirs): standard side filter
20101107 00:44:27< Crab_> silene: if data/lua/helper.lua is not the correct place to put that function ( ^ , r47471 ), then tell me, where.
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20101107 01:30:58< eleazzaar> unfortunately , jetrel is not right about font licenses
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20101107 01:33:02< eleazzaar> when you buy the license to use a commercial font (or get it in a software package), you generally get the rights to use the fonts 
20101107 01:33:15< eleazzaar> for profit or whatever
20101107 01:33:22< eleazzaar> otherwise what's the point/
20101107 01:33:23< eleazzaar> ?
20101107 01:33:58< eleazzaar> but that doesn't mean font creators can't release font's under other licenses
20101107 01:34:34< eleazzaar> like with a "free-for-noncommercial-use" clause
20101107 01:39:31< eleazzaar> the parallel with a bic pen is not very good
20101107 01:42:02< eleazzaar> a font is not merely a tool, it is art somebody made.  Using a font is basically taking a bunch of pieces of art and arraigning them in sequence.
20101107 01:43:01< eleazzaar> whereas what you might draw with a bic pen is entirely your creative product.
20101107 01:45:34< eleazzaar> What
20101107 01:46:30< eleazzaar> What's so hard to understand about. "They can be downloaded and used freely for non commercial purposes. " ?  
20101107 01:48:15< eleazzaar> if you read the whole EULA of photoshop or Word, i'm sure you would find (in much less concise terms) "You can use these fonts for private or commercial work, but can't redistribute the font package."
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20101107 02:16:02< shadowmaster> sigh.
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20101107 04:06:14< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47472 /trunk/src/game_preferences_display.cpp: Convert game UI theme selection dialog to GUI2
20101107 04:08:22< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47473 /trunk/data/gui/default/window/simple_item_selector.cfg: Forgot a couple of tstring internationalization marks
20101107 04:18:00< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47474 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20101107 04:18:00< CIA-81> Allow to customize tsimple_item_selector's command buttons text
20101107 04:18:00< CIA-81> Also put this new feature to use for the Remove add-ons dialog
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20101107 09:12:33< Ivanovic> moin
20101107 09:23:05< CIA-81> silene * r47475 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Fixed array underflow introduced by r47471.
20101107 09:23:08< CIA-81> silene * r47476 /trunk/data/lua/helper.lua: Modified get_sides so that it returns the actual side number. Renamed it.
20101107 09:23:10< CIA-81> silene * r47477 /trunk/src/ (4 files): Fixed copyright wording.
20101107 09:23:11< CIA-81> silene * r47478 /trunk/src/editor/ (terrain_group.cpp.wip terrain_group.hpp.wip): Removed unused files.
20101107 09:23:13< CIA-81> silene * r47479 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/ (window_builder.cpp window_builder_private.hpp): Removed unused class gui2::tbuilder_gridcell::tbuilder_gridcell.
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20101107 10:33:04< Ivanovic> esr: i found a nice task that you could mentor: "get the html manual up to date"
20101107 10:34:25< Ivanovic> stikonas: do you see the entry "Create a Task" in the gci trackers left pane below "Wesnoth (GCI 2010)"?
20101107 10:34:44< Ivanovic> just making sure that mentors really are able to create new tasks
20101107 10:35:05< stikonas> Ivanovic: I dan see Suggest task
20101107 10:35:12< stikonas> s/dan/can/
20101107 10:35:19< Ivanovic> okay, this should work nicely, too
20101107 10:35:30< Ivanovic> so mentors got to suggest their 500 tasks and admins got to ack them
20101107 10:36:07< Ivanovic> please be aware that the entry "Time to Complete" is a *deadline* after claiming, nothing like "it should take X hours to get it done"
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20101107 10:47:41< CIA-81> mordante * r47480 /trunk/src/side_filter.hpp: Made the destroctor virtual.
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20101107 11:15:54< stikonas> Ivanovic: the second link is not working in GCI description of Wesnoth
20101107 11:16:54< Ivanovic> stikonas: "Due to a hard drive failure which occurred at the same time as our backup system failed, the site is currently down. We expect to have full data recovery within the next few days. "
20101107 11:16:57< Ivanovic> http://www.happypenguin.org/
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20101107 11:45:06< Ivanovic> Soliton: is the mp server for 1.9.2 already up and running?
20101107 12:02:57< Ivanovic> 1.9.2 announcement post: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32103
20101107 12:03:03-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 171 bugs, 297 feature requests, 15 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20101107 12:06:14< Ivanovic> updated the frontpage, too
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20101107 14:48:10< CIA-81> silene * r47481 /trunk/src/ (side_filter.cpp side_filter.hpp): Removed virtual methods from side filter.
20101107 14:57:55< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47482 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Convert the gamemap label editor dialog to GUI2 adding a new dialog class
20101107 15:06:11< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47483 /trunk/changelog: Update changelog
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20101107 16:07:18< CIA-81> fendrin * r47484 /trunk/data/core/music/frantic.ogg: Fixed a wrong metainfo in the frantic music file.
20101107 16:08:26< CIA-81> fendrin * r47485 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/_main.cfg: LoW main.cfg: Included the extra units for multiplayer.
20101107 16:09:31< CIA-81> fendrin * r47486 /trunk/changelog: Added changes to LoW.
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20101107 16:52:52< CIA-81> silene * r47487 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/ (lobby_main.cpp lobby_main.hpp): Removed unused function gui2::tlobby_main::next_window_button_callback.
20101107 16:52:58< CIA-81> silene * r47488 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/ (lobby_main.cpp lobby_main.hpp): Removed unused function gui2::tlobby_main::next_active_window.
20101107 16:53:03< CIA-81> silene * r47489 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/ (lobby_main.cpp lobby_main.hpp): Removed unused function gui2::tlobby_main::show_help_button_callback.
20101107 16:53:05< CIA-81> silene * r47490 /trunk/src/gui/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Removed unused function gui2::twindow::do_show_help_popup.
20101107 16:53:11< CIA-81> silene * r47491 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/event/ (distributor.cpp distributor.hpp): Removed unused function gui2::event::tdistributor::show_help_popup.
20101107 16:53:13< CIA-81> silene * r47492 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (listbox.cpp listbox.hpp): Removed unused function gui2::tlistbox::update_content_size.
20101107 16:53:16< CIA-81> silene * r47493 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/ (data_manage.cpp data_manage.hpp): Removed unused function gui2::tdata_manage::evaluate_summary_string.
20101107 16:53:20< CIA-81> silene * r47494 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/ (canvas.cpp canvas.hpp): Removed unused constructor gui2::tcanvas.
20101107 16:53:21< CIA-81> silene * r47495 /trunk/src/ (filesystem.cpp filesystem.hpp): Removed unused function next_filename.
20101107 16:53:27< CIA-81> silene * r47496 /trunk/src/ (filesystem.cpp filesystem.hpp): Removed unused function get_upload_dir.
20101107 16:53:28< CIA-81> silene * r47497 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (helper.cpp helper.hpp): Removed unused function gui2::get_uid.
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20101107 16:53:39< CIA-81> silene * r47498 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/ (canvas.cpp canvas.hpp): Removed unused function gui2::tcanvas::draw.
20101107 16:54:35< CIA-81> anonymissimus * r47499 /trunk/src/side_filter.cpp: fixed typo breaking compilation in MSVC
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20101107 16:56:22< CIA-81> anonymissimus * r47500 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/wesnoth.vcproj: MSVC projectfile fix
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20101107 16:58:56< CIA-81> anonymissimus * r47501 /trunk/projectfiles/CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp: CodeBlocks projectfile update
20101107 17:01:04< CIA-81> anonymissimus * r47502 /trunk/projectfiles/CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp: adds edit_label.cpp, .hpp
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20101107 18:36:22< ancestral> I have learned first-handedly that PHP is incredibly way better at file I/O than JavaScript
20101107 18:46:28< Gambit> Well... yeah.
20101107 18:47:02< Gambit> Except for ajax related stuff Javascript is just about worse than anything at anything.
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20101107 19:03:53< anonymissimus> Gambit: can you please lock this thread: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27848&p=464399#p464399
20101107 19:04:05< anonymissimus> to prevent parallel discussions
20101107 19:05:11< Gambit> So the new maintainer is using the original creator's thread?
20101107 19:06:18< Gambit> anonymissimus: Done
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20101107 19:55:01< [Relic]> Hello :)
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20101107 20:03:21< ancestral> It seems that no one uses [advancesfrom] in UnitType WML
20101107 20:04:39< silene> there is no such thing; did you mean "advance_from="?
20101107 20:05:10< ancestral> Apparently my Internet is sucking here…
20101107 20:05:16< ancestral> [advancefrom]
20101107 20:05:42< ancestral> (Though "[advances_from]" would be more consistent…)
20101107 20:07:56< shadowm_laptop> ancestral: by no one you mean mainline, I hope.
20101107 20:08:09< ancestral> Okay okay, mainline doesn't use it
20101107 20:08:20< ancestral> I guess I'm a little confused where it becomes useful
20101107 20:08:43< shadowm_laptop> adding new advancements to mainline units without editing their WML, which isn't feasible for add-ons for obvious reasons
20101107 20:08:50< shadowm_laptop> it's just not compatible for MP
20101107 20:08:56< ancestral> It's not?
20101107 20:09:06< shadowm_laptop> nope.
20101107 20:09:18< ancestral> That would explain why I couldn't get it to work with Ascension
20101107 20:09:36< shadowm_laptop> I mean it can cause OOS for players who don't have the relevant add-on installed
20101107 20:10:00< shadowm_laptop> even if using the Default era
20101107 20:10:08< ancestral> But if it was extending the default era?
20101107 20:10:20< shadowm_laptop> that's what I'm saying.
20101107 20:10:39< shadowm_laptop> [advancefrom] breaks the Default era by definition when applied to units from there.
20101107 20:10:56< AI0867> AE does that on a regular basis
20101107 20:11:44< Derekkk> I read on the wiki on the new RCA AI that candidate actions can be written in c++. Does that mean C++ code can be added to the WML on AI? Seems too good to be true?
20101107 20:12:23< shadowm_laptop> written in C++ and compiled into the game executable
20101107 20:12:30< ancestral> I'm still confused
20101107 20:13:06< silene> ancestral: it should work, could you post an example of it not working?
20101107 20:13:27< ancestral> [advances_to] works everywhere, right?
20101107 20:13:42< ancestral> [advancefrom] doesn't work in MP and…?
20101107 20:13:42< shadowm_laptop> ancestral: [advancefrom]...
20101107 20:13:43< shadowm_laptop> advances_to is an attribute
20101107 20:13:51< ancestral> ohhh
20101107 20:13:52< ancestral> sorry
20101107 20:13:55< ancestral> Hmm
20101107 20:13:59< Derekkk> shadowm_laptop: ar right. I knew there is a catch.
20101107 20:14:24< shadowm_laptop> Derekkk: wesnoth isn't getting a runtime C++ compiler/linker any time soon )
20101107 20:14:30< shadowm_laptop> ;)
20101107 20:15:25< shadowm_laptop> ancestral: let's suppose that you have installed an era which uses [advancefrom] to make Elvish Shydes advance to a hypothetical L4
20101107 20:15:27< silene> Derekkk: that said, you could technically write them in lua
20101107 20:15:52< shadowm_laptop> ancestral: now you play a game using the Default era with another player who doesn't have that custom era installed
20101107 20:16:25< shadowm_laptop> if an Elvish Shyde gets enough XP you'll see her advance to a L4, but the other player will have her acquiring further XP for an AMLA instead. OOS.
20101107 20:16:34< Derekkk> silene: I was looking at the use of lua just now. Seems like lua is a rather limited language? 
20101107 20:16:37< ancestral> When you play a game wouldn't you specify to use that era?
20101107 20:16:40< silene> shadowm_laptop: if the era modifies things even when not enabled, that's a broken era
20101107 20:16:51< shadowm_laptop> silene: there's no way to disable eras.
20101107 20:17:17< shadowm_laptop> all unit types are parsed once and only once, when the game defines MULTIPLAYER and regenerates the cache
20101107 20:17:26< Derekkk> silene: e.g. no arrays?
20101107 20:17:30< shadowm_laptop> the advancement tree is constructed then
20101107 20:18:02< silene> Derekkk: what makes you think there are no arrays?
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20101107 20:18:16< shadowm_laptop> so basically, any era that uses [advancefrom] on units from Default (or other custom eras), is broken by definition.
20101107 20:18:24< ancestral> shadowm_laptop: Thanks, that helps me understand it a little better
20101107 20:18:29< shadowm_laptop> hence we hate Ageless
20101107 20:18:47< ancestral> AI0867: does wmlparser2 have advancement tree generation?
20101107 20:19:30< Derekkk> silene: I was looking through the lua manual and only found tables. I suppose they can serve the same purpose
20101107 20:19:35< shadowm_laptop> (eras that clobber [units] also count)
20101107 20:20:12< ancestral> shadowm_laptop: Kinda sounds like [advancefrom] is broken imo
20101107 20:20:12< ancestral> or somewhat useless
20101107 20:20:22< shadowm_laptop> it is useful for single player. :|
20101107 20:20:30< shadowm_laptop> the game isn't all MP, single player was there first!
20101107 20:21:00< shadowm_laptop> the problem is that there's no way to handle it correctly in MP until we can have modularization of MP add-ons
20101107 20:21:02< silene> Derekkk: sure, just because it is not called "array" does not mean it is not an array
20101107 20:21:24< shadowm_laptop> right now all eras are parsed in the same unit as mainline because the only conditions that exists is the definition of the builtin MULTIPLAYER symbol
20101107 20:21:34< shadowm_laptop> that'd be a nice goal for 2.0!
20101107 20:21:39< shadowm_laptop> *fixing that
20101107 20:21:47< ancestral> But singleplayer doesn't have addons
20101107 20:21:58< shadowm_laptop> wha?
20101107 20:22:02< shadowm_laptop> campaigns aren't add-ons?!
20101107 20:22:12< ancestral> I guess campaigns are
20101107 20:22:21< ancestral> Is it eras that you can't do in single player?
20101107 20:22:27< ancestral> What am I thinking of…
20101107 20:22:32< shadowm_laptop> I have used [advancefrom] in IftU, mind you
20101107 20:22:59< shadowm_laptop> of course eras make absolutely no sense in SP
20101107 20:23:10< shadowm_laptop> and allowing usage of them would break campaigns in so many hilarious ways that you'd not want to let the users do that.
20101107 20:23:21< ancestral> Eras make absolute sense in singleplayer!
20101107 20:23:51< shadowm_laptop> okay, I'll keep in mind that you are ignoring my exposition and go mind my own business. ;)
20101107 20:23:51< ancestral> But I digress
20101107 20:23:57< ancestral> :(
20101107 20:24:58< ancestral> shadowm_laptop: But srsly thanks for pointing out how to use
20101107 20:25:16< shadowm_laptop> how to not use ;)
20101107 20:25:26< ancestral> Fair enough ;-)
20101107 20:25:53< ancestral> I'm trying to figure out how to determine the units from which a particular unit advances from… and I think that means I need to generate a whole tree from the bottom up
20101107 20:26:22< shadowm_laptop> also, it's a known fact that many javascript engines out there are slooooow.
20101107 20:26:48< ancestral> shadowm_laptop: It may need to be done in PHP
20101107 20:26:51< shadowm_laptop> hence PHP is faster for file input/output, because it runs on a big fat server and does less translation
20101107 20:27:27< shadowm_laptop> though I'd personally use Perl
20101107 20:27:38< shadowm_laptop> :awesome:
20101107 20:28:01< ancestral> I won't disagree with that
20101107 20:28:08< ancestral> You know I love Perl
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20101107 20:33:41< AI0867> ancestral: no
20101107 20:34:27< anonymissimus> does a tag named tunnel exist ? I can't find it in the source
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20101107 20:35:34< Derekkk> is there a way that the AI can look ahead during its turn? e.g. if ghost has moved to position X, will archer still be able to move to position Y? (since the path to Y might be blocked by the ghost as a result of its first move)
20101107 20:37:18< ancestral> So units.wesnoth.org still uses the wmlunits python script
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20101107 20:38:07< Derekkk> i seems to me that without going into too much programming, the only way to find out is to move the ghost.
20101107 20:38:42< silene> anonymissimus: it's in the fendrin_pathfind branch
20101107 20:40:04< anonymissimus> aha so it's an "unofficial release" or something and should really nto be in the wiki ?
20101107 20:41:08< silene> i don't parse; are you saying it is already in the wiki?
20101107 20:41:20< Derekkk> by too much programming, i mean having to create a copy of the game state and then test on there
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20101107 20:42:49< silene> anonymissimus: the idea is that, if the overhead of the [tunnel] code is not too big, it will be merged into mainline; the tests haven't been done yet
20101107 20:42:50< anonymissimus> yes; someone added it mistakenly
20101107 20:52:19< CIA-81> espreon * r47503 /trunk/data/gui/default/window/ (edit_label.cfg simple_item_selector.cfg): Ran umcpropfix.
20101107 20:58:32< Derekkk> I suppose the silence means there is no easy way out...
20101107 20:59:58< Rhonda> Derekkk: You mean thinking two turns in advance?
20101107 21:00:35< silene> Derekkk: not sure, what could be simpler than putting the units at the location you expect them to be before running a path finder?
20101107 21:00:37< Derekkk> Rhonda: yes, something along that line, but less ambitious
20101107 21:03:05< Derekkk> sliene: don't you then have to move the unit first? meaning that you are not looking ahead at all
20101107 21:03:37< Derekkk> silene: don't you then have to move the unit first? meaning that you are not looking ahead at all
20101107 21:04:36< silene> Derekkk: i don't understand what you mean; both c++ and wml are constantly creating, moving, and removing temporary units
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20101107 21:05:32< Derekkk> silene: right, so I can create a temporary unit at X and then run path finder for unit trying to move to Y?
20101107 21:05:59< silene> yes
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20101107 21:16:21< CIA-81> silene * r47504 /trunk/src/gamestatus.cpp: 
20101107 21:16:22< CIA-81> Prevented initialization code from looking for objectives recursively in the
20101107 21:16:22< CIA-81> whole scenario; either they are at toplevel and the objective code will take
20101107 21:16:22< CIA-81> care of them anyway, or they are nested further (e.g. in a later event) and
20101107 21:16:22< CIA-81> considering them is plain wrong.
20101107 21:16:24< CIA-81> silene * r47505 /trunk/src/ (config.cpp config.hpp): Removed unused function config::find_child_recursive.
20101107 21:20:11< CIA-81> silene * r47506 /trunk/src/ (controller_base.cpp controller_base.hpp): Removed unused function controller_base::can_execute_command.
20101107 21:24:42< ancestral> I'm thinking of just iterating through my JSON file, adding a custom key, such as "advances_from"
20101107 21:29:22< ancestral> And you can't harp on me for adding improper WML because it's simply a temporary ADT prior to displaying data on a web page ;-)
20101107 21:30:45< CIA-81> silene * r47507 /trunk/src/loadscreen.cpp: Updated progress bar data.
20101107 21:32:54< shadowm_laptop> fendrin: please  keep the changelog sections in alphabetical order. Only "Miscellaneous and bugfixes" can go at the end :(
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20101107 21:43:41< Espreon> Ivanovic: I sent my request.
20101107 21:44:05< Derekkk> silene: with lua,is it possible to use wesnoth.get_locations to pick all the locations with units in?
20101107 21:46:10-!- rigved [~rigved@116.72.163.243] has quit [Quit: Bye]
20101107 21:52:15< silene> Derekkk: yes, but it's quite inefficient, you may just as well recover all the units with wesnoth.get_units and ask them their location directly
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20101107 21:53:40< Derekkk> silene: what I actually want to test is if there is any unit in a particular location
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20101107 21:56:24< silene> Derekkk: wesnoth.get_unit(x, y)
20101107 21:59:41< silene> (note that this is quite expensive, so if you are querying the same position again and again, it is worth using a cache)
20101107 22:02:37< Derekkk> silene: sorry for being ignorant... if there are no units at (x,y), what does get_unit return? nil?
20101107 22:03:28< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47508 /trunk/src/playcampaign.cpp: Mark the "Game Over" screen as translatable
20101107 22:04:13< silene> Derekkk: yes
20101107 22:04:27< shadowm_laptop> *string
20101107 22:04:51< silene> (or rather, it returns nothing, which most of the times behaves the same as nil)
20101107 22:05:48< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47509 /trunk/src/playcampaign.cpp: Convert the End-of-scenario dialog for MP campaigns to GUI2
20101107 22:06:48< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47510 /trunk/src/playcampaign.cpp: Fix a mistake in r47509
20101107 22:06:57-!- PeterPorty [~Pete@pc-225-54-120-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
20101107 22:15:05< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47511 /trunk/src/replay_controller.cpp: Mark strings which were introduced during a freeze as translatable
20101107 22:18:44< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47512 /trunk/data/gui/default/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Replace id in definition of title_creen_revision with title_screen_revision
20101107 22:25:21< Ivanovic> Espreon: added you in
20101107 22:28:28< shadowm_laptop> It should be made an official policy to add in the wiki references to lines which need to be made translatable after a string freeze.
20101107 22:28:41< shadowm_laptop> I just found this couple by accident.
20101107 22:29:18< shadowm_laptop> *these four
20101107 22:31:15< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47513 /trunk/src/play_controller.cpp: 
20101107 22:31:15< Ivanovic> mapgen.cpp:1006:                        //FIXME: Make this error message translatable (not possible atm due to string freeze)
20101107 22:31:16< CIA-81> Mark strings introduced during a string freeze as translatable
20101107 22:31:16< CIA-81> (OOS status dialog)
20101107 22:31:16< Ivanovic> playsingle_controller.cpp:511:          /** @todo FIXME: remove the odd linebreak after the string freeze */
20101107 22:31:19< Ivanovic> there appear to be more
20101107 22:31:42< shadowm_laptop> nasty
20101107 22:33:40< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47514 /trunk/src/mapgen.cpp: Mark strings introduced during a string freeze as translatable
20101107 22:35:14< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47515 /trunk/src/mapgen.cpp: Remove a comment relevant to r47514
20101107 22:35:34-!- ancestral [~ancestral@70.99.178.114] has quit [Quit: i go sleeps kthxbai]
20101107 22:35:56< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47516 /trunk/src/playsingle_controller.cpp: Remove a random linebreak now that we are not in string freeze
20101107 22:36:43< shadowm_laptop> I can't find further occurrences of "freeze" in the source now so that's probably all.
20101107 22:36:50< shadowm_laptop> *relevant occurrences
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20101107 23:18:20< CIA-81> eleazar * r47517 /trunk/ (changelog data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg players_changelog): Fixed display of UMC castles (which were being overdrawn by regular human castles).
20101107 23:18:49< shadowmaster> let's have 1.7.3 now! ;) :P
20101107 23:19:00< ancestral> A PHP file I/O call would considered part of a server bandwidth usage, right?
20101107 23:19:22< shadowmaster> beats me
20101107 23:19:44< shadowmaster> it probably depends on where its target is located (i.e. local or remote)
20101107 23:20:18< shadowmaster> if in doubt, ask your host.
20101107 23:20:24< ancestral> More specifically, if it's writing a small amount of data to the web page but reading information inside a 2 MB file stored on the server, is that considered 2 MB of bandwidth?
20101107 23:20:52< ancestral> shadowmaster: Likely I'll use my browser's resource tracker. Somehow I don't think my host would understand
20101107 23:21:48< shadowmaster> what has your browser to do with the server's own bandwidth consumption?  o_O
20101107 23:21:53< Soliton> php is local to the web server.
20101107 23:22:57< Soliton> ancestral: btw, note that units can advance to anything so if you expect advancement trees that's going to break with certain add-ons.
20101107 23:23:00< Gambit> AFAIU bandwidth is transfer of data over a network
20101107 23:23:05< Gambit> ancestral: is it moving anything over the internet?
20101107 23:23:30< shadowmaster> Gambit: yeah, but maybe some rando host out there has decided to charge for local I/O load? ;)
20101107 23:23:31< ancestral> shadowmaster: Good point — it can track resource loading client-side anyhow
20101107 23:23:42< ancestral> If it's bandwidth I would assume it's what the client is doing
20101107 23:24:07< ancestral> Gambit: I think you're right
20101107 23:24:07< shadowmaster> ancestral: what Soliton said. PHP is completely server-side.
20101107 23:24:21< ancestral> Okay
20101107 23:24:36< shadowmaster> the client can't know what the PHP code is doing, it only receives the output, which is usually XML or HTML
20101107 23:25:07< Gambit> ancestral: please don't be offended by this simplified explanation if you already understand how it works; but php is processed all on the server and turned into html. That then gets sent to the browser. Everything in php happens before anything gets sent to the client
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20101107 23:25:30< shadowmaster> Gambit: too simplified. I am not impressed.
20101107 23:25:34< ancestral> Haha
20101107 23:25:45< shadowmaster> it's also horribly inaccurate.
20101107 23:26:00< Gambit> :'(
20101107 23:26:36< shadowmaster> and you know you can serve a PDF from a PHP script if you like
20101107 23:27:00< shadowmaster> we have a JPEG example used in wesnoth.org's frontpage.
20101107 23:27:35< Gambit> But only ColdFusion™ allows you to automagically convert html to pdf with only a few lines of code!
20101107 23:27:38< Gambit> [/advertisement]
20101107 23:27:59< shadowmaster> your advertisement was not called for.
20101107 23:29:07< ancestral> I guess a better question would be, I shouldn't be too worried (as far as traffic and bandwidth) if I am writing PHP I/O that involves echo-ing just a few lines to a web page even though it may be sifting through 5 MB of information on the server
20101107 23:29:14-!- iwontbecreative [~thibault@89.180.141.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20101107 23:29:17< Lancer2013_LDT> Where should I place name etc for a patch? the net says about.cfg, however we seem to not have that file .
20101107 23:29:51< Gambit> ancestral: Nope
20101107 23:30:09< Gambit> It's the same bandwidth as literally writing those few lines
20101107 23:30:19< Gambit> You just have to worry about memory and processing power
20101107 23:30:22< Soliton> Lancer2013_LDT: data/core/about.cfg
20101107 23:30:27< ancestral> Gambit: Yeah
20101107 23:30:36< Lancer2013_LDT> Soliton: Thank you
20101107 23:31:06< ancestral> Just debating use of JavaScript vs. PHP
20101107 23:31:23< shadowmaster> flamewar time!
20101107 23:31:25-!- Derekkk_ [~chatzilla@88-109-20-5.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101107 23:32:00< shadowmaster> when in doubt, just check with your host what are the prciicing terms.
20101107 23:32:29-!- Derekkk [~chatzilla@212.183.140.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
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20101107 23:32:44< CIA-81> fendrin * r47518 /trunk/changelog: Brought the changelog in alphabetic order.
20101107 23:32:47< fendrin> shadowmaster: ^
20101107 23:32:55< shadowmaster> for example, my sponsor's charges an additional microscopic fee for usage of CGI or PHP
20101107 23:33:13< Gambit> And if you're really rich, go with ColdF -gurgling noises-
20101107 23:33:15< shadowmaster> it also charges fees for email forwarding but not for email sending
20101107 23:33:15-!- Derekkk [~chatzilla@88-109-20-5.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Client Quit]
20101107 23:33:47< shadowmaster> it charges fees for server disk space consumption while placing no quota limits, etc.
20101107 23:34:17< Gambit> So a bug that quickly ate up disc space would keep doing so with no bounds and you'd get charged? Ouch.
20101107 23:34:51< shadowmaster> there are safety measures in place to avoid that both in PHP's core and in the server software, and in the pricing management thingy
20101107 23:36:07< shadowmaster> remember that not everyone in the world is Gambit.
20101107 23:36:27-!- Vetinari [~lukjad@unaffiliated/lukjad] has quit [Quit: TO UBUNTU, AND BEYOND!]
20101107 23:36:44< Gambit> I see trees of green. Red roses roses too.
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 08 00:00:34 2010