--- Log opened Wed Nov 10 00:00:01 2010
--- Day changed Wed Nov 10 2010
20101110 00:00:01< Crab_> ok, I'll check the archive tomorrow (I'll have to go now)
20101110 00:00:02< sl33k> exact path?
20101110 00:00:32< sl33k> ok
20101110 00:00:48< Crab_> sl33k: it is supposed to find it, if it's there..
20101110 00:01:39< Crab_> sl33k: you can search for .lib files with 'system' in them, under that boost dir... but it really can find them by itself.
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20101110 02:28:50< shadowmaster> anyone knows if it's possible to create events or do [insert_tag] in lua?
20101110 02:32:19< Gambit> I think [lua] is an "action tag"
20101110 02:34:10< shadowmaster> and?
20101110 02:34:35< shadowmaster> I'm writing some lua to generate WML events
20101110 02:35:00< shadowmaster> it generates some WML containers from tables and I don't know how to tell the game to [insert_tag] using those containers
20101110 02:35:11< shadowmaster> without using a WML epilogue
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20101110 02:36:41< Gambit> So... yes but it must be in another event
20101110 02:36:54< shadowmaster> okay, I found what I wanted. wesnoth.fire
20101110 02:37:01< shadowmaster> not to be confused with wesnoth.fire_event
20101110 02:37:50< shadowmaster> ahm not quite [insert_tag] since it will only allow me to fire [event] statements, but it also works
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20101110 02:43:36< shadowmaster> phew, that was a fun piece of code to write
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20101110 06:26:11< ancestral> Could someone tell me the order that the game finds resistances for a unit?
20101110 06:27:23< ancestral> I'm assuming the unit takes precedence (if it has a key present) but after that does it go by a racial type?
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20101110 06:45:26< noy> ancestral: Isn't it RATE?
20101110 06:45:32< noy> I might be wrong, its been awhile
20101110 06:46:03< ancestral> Is that an acronym?
20101110 06:48:47< ancestral> Also, what does it mean to have higher than 100?
20101110 06:49:35< ancestral> Okay, means negative
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20101110 06:50:58< ancestral> noy: What is RATE?
20101110 06:51:04< noy> yes
20101110 06:51:18< noy> Its the order that damage is calculated I think
20101110 06:51:29< noy> Isn't 100 = 0?
20101110 06:51:33< ancestral> Yes
20101110 06:51:36< noy> so no resistances
20101110 06:51:39< ancestral> I understand the 100-resistance
20101110 06:51:43< ancestral> But back to the earlier question
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20101110 06:52:00< ancestral> What's the order the game checks for a single unit's resistance?
20101110 06:52:01< noy> I think resistances are done first
20101110 06:52:04< noy> R
20101110 06:52:15< noy>  time of day is second last?
20101110 06:52:59< ancestral> But for base resistance…
20101110 06:53:18< noy> eh?
20101110 06:53:31< noy> oh you're not asking for damage order
20101110 06:53:43< ancestral> Is [movetype] only for movement or does it have resistances too?
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20101110 06:53:56< ancestral> i.e. orcishfoot
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20101110 06:54:26< ancestral> or woodland
20101110 06:54:42< noy> I think its not a hard rule
20101110 06:54:54< noy> but we try to keep them the same
20101110 06:55:00< ancestral> I should look at the actual wml and not the json output
20101110 06:55:15< noy> Sorry its been awhile since I worked on this
20101110 06:55:28< ancestral> That's okay you're being helpful :)
20101110 06:56:07< ancestral> I feel like it's in units.cfg, yes?
20101110 06:57:12< noy> it is
20101110 06:57:12< ancestral> It's a little confusing that it's under [movetype]
20101110 06:57:25< noy> we've used the movetypes as templates
20101110 06:57:32< noy> so thats why we try to keep them organized
20101110 06:57:35< ancestral> Yeah
20101110 06:58:40< ancestral> So is it just two layers, then?
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20101110 06:58:56< ancestral> 1. Unit  2. Movetype ?
20101110 07:02:12< noy> hm
20101110 07:02:31< noy> I don't know what you mean by "layers"
20101110 07:02:55< ancestral> Resistances are not hard coded for each unit
20101110 07:03:04< noy> no they are part of WML
20101110 07:03:12< ancestral> Right I mean in the WML under the unit
20101110 07:03:18< ancestral> They don't have to be specified
20101110 07:03:24< ancestral> If they are, they take precedence
20101110 07:03:41< ancestral> So that's the first in the order, right?
20101110 07:11:06< ancestral> Soliton: Might you know? (or maybe point me where to look in source?)
20101110 07:15:14< ancestral> I'm thinking generate_report.cpp
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20101110 08:17:52< zookeeper> ancestral, i still can't really figure out what it is you're asking.
20101110 08:18:16< ancestral> I want to generate a resistances table for a given unit
20101110 08:20:59< zookeeper> okay. the resistances are determined by the [movement_type], but if the [unit_type] happens to have a [resistance] then those values override them.
20101110 08:21:44< zookeeper> just look at how [resistance] is used in core units
20101110 08:22:26< ancestral> Can a unit have an ability which would grant a higher or lower resistance?
20101110 08:23:07< zookeeper> sure, but it would be stupid to do so
20101110 08:23:13< ancestral> Why?
20101110 08:23:46< zookeeper> well because if you want a unit to have a higher resistance, why would you give it via an ability instead of just giving them a higher resistance in a normal fashion?
20101110 08:24:14< ancestral> There are things like steadfast, and there are custom eras and scenarios which grant abilities as a reward
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20101110 08:25:05< zookeeper> neither of those affect the unit type's base resistances (which presumably is what you need to access)
20101110 08:25:29< ancestral> I suppose that's true
20101110 08:25:44< ancestral> Alright, so 1. Unit  2. Movetype
20101110 08:26:39< ancestral> No other factors could affect a unit's base resistances? (obviously in-game things like ToD or an enemy's ability could modify things)
20101110 08:26:41< zookeeper> yeah. i can't think of anything else that you'd need to consider
20101110 08:26:46< ancestral> Awesome
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20101110 09:42:36< zookeeper> hrhm... should it be considered a bug that when i advance a scenario, my current recruit list is merged with the [side] recruit= list of the next scenario, instead of replacing it? i'm not sure if that's a recent change or if it's always been like that.
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20101110 09:56:47< CIA-81> zookeeper * r47527 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/ (5 files): Removed recruit= lists for the player's side which seem to interfere with the recruit costs increase system and cause bug #17063.
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20101110 10:15:31< Ivanovic> moin
20101110 10:16:02< VladimirSlavik> hi
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20101110 15:48:54< FAAB> hi, is it possible to reopen a bug?
20101110 15:52:48< Gambit> Which bug?
20101110 15:52:54< Gambit> And why?
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20101110 15:54:13< FAAB> https://gna.org/bugs/?17055
20101110 15:56:47< m4k3r> FAAB:  GCI?
20101110 15:56:53< FAAB> I am surprised that if a developer cannot reproduce it, it is directly invalid. Wouldn't it be better to ask for further information on how to reproduce it?
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20101110 15:57:53< FAAB> Beside that, if a fix is proposed, I think I could be given the time to test if it works for me before closing the bug.
20101110 15:58:16< FAAB> m4k3r: no
20101110 15:59:33< anonymissimus> shadowmaster, Espreon : did you use the # wmllint: notecheck on/off directives successfully ? if yes, how; maybe you could pastebin some wml code ?
20101110 16:01:40< FAAB> Gambit: ^
20101110 16:06:51< Soliton> yes, it's trivial to reopen a bug report.
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20101110 16:14:42< Gambit> FAAB: Well did you test the attached code?
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20101110 16:20:45< Gambit> To answer your other questions; if a bug can't be reproduced then it's probably an error on the user's system or they're doing something wrong.
20101110 16:20:55< Gambit> In your case it seems to have been the latter.
20101110 16:21:11< Gambit> (Don't worry. I hear that a lot too. "WML wasn't meant to do that.")
20101110 16:23:32< m4k3r> I have a question about AIs task on GCI, is here someone I can ask to?
20101110 16:25:53< Soliton> probably not but you could just ask and give a reference to the task. the best one to ask will read it in the log.
20101110 16:25:59< FAAB> Gambit: I did, and it works fine for that simple test case. But when I apply it to a more complex one, it has an erroneous behavior
20101110 16:27:20< m4k3r> «We will provide a incomplete program that provides the correct input and you must complete it, coding a suitable recruitment algorithm.»
20101110 16:27:21< Soliton> then you need to provide that more complex test case.
20101110 16:27:40< m4k3r> I would like to receive some explainations about this sentence:
20101110 16:27:56< FAAB> Gambit: the point is that I took the time to write a simple test case that would illustrate my problem. The fact that my test case has an error inside, doesn't make it that there is no problem.
20101110 16:28:20< m4k3r> - so I can work without even looking at the game, or there are some APIs I should use?
20101110 16:28:27< FAAB> Soliton: the complex code is in the forum linked in the bug report
20101110 16:28:41< m4k3r> - I need to make cool stuff like unittest?
20101110 16:28:52< Soliton> FAAB: note that in the bug report then.
20101110 16:28:56< m4k3r> *have to -sorry for my bad English
20101110 16:29:25< FAAB> the bug is already closed now 
20101110 16:29:44< Soliton> that does not prevent you to make a comment.
20101110 16:30:40< Soliton> m4k3r: well, presumably it's easiest to put the recruit algorithm into wesnoth to test but yeah for that you need to wait for Crab to explain.
20101110 16:31:10< m4k3r> Soliton:  yup. Is he often here?
20101110 16:31:26< m4k3r> Talking on irc is usually much easier than by e-mail.
20101110 16:31:33< Soliton> regularly, yes and he reads the log.
20101110 16:31:46< Soliton> good thing you think so. :-)
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20101110 16:38:42< Gambit> You had real errors in your test case?
20101110 16:38:52< Gambit> It wasn't a simple thing of you doing something unintentional?
20101110 16:38:59< Gambit> Well then of course it got closed.
20101110 16:39:05< Gambit> What are they supposed to think FAAB?
20101110 16:39:22< Gambit> You provide error'd code that produces a bad result. It seems "duh".
20101110 16:40:41< FAAB> something like: your code has an error, here is how to fix it, try the fix and come again?
20101110 16:42:51< Soliton> how many lines is the test case?
20101110 16:43:27< FAAB> the complex one ?
20101110 16:43:44< Soliton> the one that reproduces the error.
20101110 16:44:07< FAAB> 245
20101110 16:45:34< FAAB> and it requires a particular era
20101110 16:46:00< Soliton> is it reasonable to expect someone to try to work out what the error might be in there instead of a simple test case that does what the report is about?
20101110 16:47:14< Soliton> a better question yet is probably what this discussion is supposed to help.
20101110 16:47:22< FAAB> no, that is why I wrote the simple test case
20101110 16:49:12< FAAB> Soliton: I don't know, I am just answering questions. I just wanted to have that bug reopened.
20101110 16:50:12< Soliton> i told you to make a note in the report.
20101110 16:51:06< FAAB> Soliton: understood.
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20101110 17:54:55< eleazzaar> Why is it that AMLA is barely used in mainline after all this time (besides the bland +3HP) was the idea of varied choices rejected, or was agreement never reached on what the choices should be?
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20101110 17:57:55< Soliton> eleazzaar: mostly no one feeling passionate about implementing any, i'd say.
20101110 17:58:12< Soliton> IMO it's a neat idea but a lot of work for marginal gain.
20101110 18:01:16< sl33k_> i am running the exe after building the project on my windows xp, but its not responding
20101110 18:02:26< Soliton> see stderr.txt for what it says.
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20101110 18:06:54< sl33k_> http://pastebin.com/uCdSX7ZL
20101110 18:07:56< Soliton> umm, that's wesnothd not wesnoth.
20101110 18:09:55< sl33k_> no wesnoth, i have just done BUILD SOLUTION
20101110 18:10:39< Soliton> i have no idea what that means but that output is from wesnothd and it is running fine.
20101110 18:12:18< Gambit> There are mainline units without the default AMLA? 0_0
20101110 18:12:55< Gambit> Wait... no?
20101110 18:13:00< Gambit> eleazzaar: Your post in that thread confuses me.
20101110 18:13:13< sl33k_> Soliton: completed till step no 8 from http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows
20101110 18:14:12< Gambit> If someone balance-savvy has a list of alternate AMLAs I'll code them.
20101110 18:18:12< anonymissimus> sl33k_: project properties>configuration manager; uncheck there
20101110 18:18:35< anonymissimus> you're almost done when at that point ;)
20101110 18:18:54< eleazzaar> Gambit:  added this line: "The standard +3HP is technically AMLA, but it's the most minimal, least interesting, easiest, and least objectionable implementation possible."
20101110 18:19:29< sl33k_> anonymissimus: but it showed like 70 errors durin build
20101110 18:19:40< sl33k_> will it work correctly
20101110 18:19:47< anonymissimus> compiler or linker errors ?
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20101110 18:20:46< sl33k_> update errors
20101110 18:21:25< anonymissimus> pastebin
20101110 18:21:29< sl33k_> anonymissimus: what to uncheck there?
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20101110 18:22:23< anonymissimus> forget it; I thougt you'd have the 4 linker errors left that I get
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20101110 21:01:14< anonymissimus> Espreon, shadowmaster : around ?
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20101110 22:18:22< Espreon> anonymissimus: Hai.
20101110 22:19:10< Espreon> anonymissimus: esr never implemented my suggested directive; instead, he created a directive that associates a special note with something.
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20101110 22:49:18< anonymissimus> can you paste some example wml code ?
20101110 22:49:55< anonymissimus> to me it seems that it just doesn't work
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20101110 22:53:22< Espreon> anonymissimus: Last time I checked, this works: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/wesnoth-umc-dev/trunk/The_Silver_Lands/units/_final.cfg?revision=6655&view=markup
20101110 22:58:44< pat__> Zookeeper Could you tell me where I might locate the code for the [kill] with fire_event?
20101110 23:02:16< anonymissimus> pat__: game_events.cpp 1808
20101110 23:03:52< pat__> thank you
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20101110 23:16:32< anonymissimus> Espreon: it doesn't seem to work for weapon specials with an argument; and why is notecheck off documented at the start of wmllint if it's not implemented
20101110 23:17:46< Espreon> anonymissimus: 1. complain to esr. 2. How should I know?
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20101110 23:21:22< esr> It's implemented.
20101110 23:21:52< m4k3r> Guys, which way reported here (http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnoth) do you usually use to compile wesnoth?
20101110 23:24:02< anonymissimus> esr: I could not figure out how to use # notecheck on/off
20101110 23:24:18< anonymissimus> gow can nav.text ever start with it ?
20101110 23:24:44< anonymissimus> there needs to be at least a comment
20101110 23:26:27< anonymissimus> same issue with deathcheck on/off btw
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20101110 23:28:51< esr> anonymissimus: Try grepping for uses of it in mainline.  Emulate what you see.
20101110 23:29:41< CIA-81> shadowmaster * r47528 /trunk/data/core/macros/animation-utils2.cfg: Fix Saurian Skirmisher line melee animations' timing (why am *I* doing this?)
20101110 23:30:39< shadowmaster> m4k3r: it really depends on whom you ask
20101110 23:31:10< shadowmaster> I use scons, some people use cmake, others use autotools, and a few have no option but to use Visual Studio or some other IDE
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20101110 23:33:56< anonymissimus> esr: here's some diff I did that makes both directives work: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/J5K6gvre
20101110 23:33:58< m4k3r> shadowmaster:  I mean, there isn't any difference in time spent in updating? Usually,  when some libs/configures changes, you have to rebuild everything and that's a waste of time.
20101110 23:34:46< shadowmaster> scons, cmake and autotools should be able to take care of that stuff as transparently as possible with minimal increased build time.
20101110 23:35:09< anonymissimus> and there are no occurances in mainline thats the problem
20101110 23:35:25< shadowmaster> particularly scons </shamelesspromoter>
20101110 23:36:20< m4k3r> Hey, it's in python! I should use it then.
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20101110 23:39:03< esr> anonymissimus: Ah, I see.  I'm guessing Sapient changed the nav class so that comment parsing doesn't quite work like it used to, and I got caught in that.
20101110 23:39:24< esr> anonymissimus: I won't mind if you commit that change.
20101110 23:39:44< anonymissimus> all of that diff ? ok
20101110 23:40:30< anonymissimus> but the notecheck on/of directiive seem superfluous; I found that # wmllint: match {WEAPON_SPECIAL_INSTASINK with {SPECIAL_NOTES_INSTASINK works
20101110 23:40:35< esr> anonymissimus: Yes, it looks good.
20101110 23:42:02< esr> It could be.  The directives are pretty ad-hoc, and were implemented separated by large stretches of time.  They might overlap without my having noticed it.
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20101110 23:43:55< CIA-81> anonymissimus * r47529 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: (log message trimmed)
20101110 23:43:55< CIA-81> made the # wmllint: notecheck on/off and deathcheck on/off directives work
20101110 23:43:55< CIA-81> usage:
20101110 23:43:55< CIA-81> [unit_type]
20101110 23:43:55< CIA-81> # wmllint: notecheck off
20101110 23:43:56< CIA-81> description=...{SPECIAL_NOTES}
20101110 23:43:56< CIA-81> ...
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20101110 23:55:23< zookeeper> shadowmaster, you're doing it because i refuse to fix screwups that the people who screwed up refuse to either test or fix :p
--- Log closed Thu Nov 11 00:00:55 2010