--- Log opened Thu Nov 11 00:00:55 2010
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20101111 00:12:56< Grimling> Is the task on http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GCI#AI_recruitment_algorithm just an example, or something that really needs to be done?
20101111 00:13:26< [Relic]> Hello :)
20101111 00:13:42< Grimling> Hi
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20101111 02:52:22< shadowmaster> shikadibot: dir /trunk/misc/fortunes
20101111 02:52:23< shikadibot> shadowmaster: Web interface URL to dir trunk/misc/fortunes: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/misc/fortunes
20101111 02:53:14< shadowmaster> shi	repo
20101111 02:53:26< shadowmaster> shikadibot: repo
20101111 02:53:27< shikadibot> shadowmaster: Repository URI: http://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth
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20101111 07:15:38-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 174 bugs, 298 feature requests, 17 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20101111 08:39:05< CIA-81> zookeeper * r47530 /trunk/data/core/macros/ (animation-utils.cfg animation-utils2.cfg): Fixed and reorganized some start times.
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20101111 09:04:41< silene> Rhonda: src/lua/Makefile.in (and any other Makefile.in file by the way) doesn't get removed by distclean because it was created by neither configure nor make; it is a distributed file (in the .tgz) so there is no way it will ever be removed by clean or distclean
20101111 09:19:05< Rhonda> silene: I don't think so, it's not in the tarball.
20101111 09:19:12< Rhonda> Otherwise I wouldn't have noticed it.
20101111 09:22:43< silene> Rhonda: i mean the tarball generated by "make dist"
20101111 09:23:46< Rhonda> I would guess that that's the one I downloaded.
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20101111 09:24:00< Rhonda> 1.9.2 tarball doesn't has that file
20101111 09:24:25< silene> Rhonda: the one you downloaded was not generated by "make dist" (Ivanovic doesn't use autotools)
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20101111 09:25:38< silene> Rhonda: anyway, that's easy to test: make dist && tar tzf wesnoth-1.9.2+svn.tar.gz | grep lua/Makefile.in
20101111 09:25:49< silene> (and i just tested it, to be on the safe side)
20101111 09:26:10< Ivanovic> silene: my tarball is created by svn export
20101111 09:26:17< silene> Ivanovic: i know
20101111 09:26:20< Ivanovic> silene: so the tarball does not include any files that are not in the repo
20101111 09:26:28< silene> i know
20101111 09:26:42< Ivanovic> silene: still if Rhonda builds using autotools the Makefile.in should be removed using make clean
20101111 09:26:47< Ivanovic> (the lua one)
20101111 09:27:35< silene> Ivanovic: no way, as i said, it's file that is present in the tarball generated by "make dist", so by definition of "distclean", it won't be removed (since distclean brings a directory back to its dist state)
20101111 09:27:43< Ivanovic> and running svn st in a checkout where you ran configure, this is the result_
20101111 09:27:44< Ivanovic> ?       src/lua/Makefile.in
20101111 09:27:46< Ivanovic> ?       src/lua/Makefile
20101111 09:28:16< Ivanovic> so these two files are generated by autotools themselves and don't exist for cmake or scons
20101111 09:28:52< silene> Ivanovic: obviously, and neither does src/Makefile exist for scons, what's your point?
20101111 09:29:09< Rhonda> silene: So what's the proper way to do it then? Should the file be included in the tarball already?
20101111 09:29:14< Ivanovic> 1) at least src/lua/Makefile should be in svn:ignore
20101111 09:29:20< zookeeper> gah. [item] visible_in_fog=yes doesn't work.
20101111 09:30:00< Ivanovic> 2) if src/lua/Makefile.in is in fact behaving the same way as other provided Makefile.in, it should probably be included in svn and not autogenerated
20101111 09:30:45< silene> Ivanovic: what?! you mean that src/Makefile.in is in the svn?
20101111 09:31:45< silene> Rhonda: it depends what you are trying to achieve; it's in the tarball generated by "make dist"
20101111 09:32:08< Rhonda> silene: So should make dist create the Makefile.in?
20101111 09:32:19< Ivanovic> silene: somehow i think what Rhonda wants is that those makefiles should all behave the same way
20101111 09:32:36< Rhonda> silene: Because actually distclean does *not* bring the directory back to its dist state if the file isn't there in dist state.
20101111 09:32:46< silene> Ivanovic: i just checked, it is not in the svn, so i don't understand what you mean by "the same way as other provided Makefile.in", none of them are in the svn
20101111 09:33:05< silene> Ivanovic: they all behave the same way!
20101111 09:33:21< Ivanovic> silene: obviously something is different for those specific files, or Rhonda would not have mentioned the makefiles in lua explicitly
20101111 09:33:41< silene> Rhonda: there is no way for autotools to guess that the tarball was not generated by "make dist"
20101111 09:33:59< Rhonda> silene: So your call is that Ivanovic did fumble when creating the tarball?
20101111 09:34:00< CIA-81> ivanovic * r47531 /trunk/src/lua/: add the autotool generated makefiles into svn:ignore
20101111 09:34:20< silene> Rhonda: and "make dist" doesn't create Makefile.in; if you can type "make dist", Makefile.in already exists (otherwise you wouldn't be able to use make)
20101111 09:34:23< Rhonda> unknowingly, obviously. I am not interested in blame shifting.
20101111 09:34:32< Ivanovic> moin, btw
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20101111 09:35:19< silene> Rhonda: no, that's not what i'm saying; i'm just saying the distclean will never do more than what's it is intended to do (that is, bring the directory in the same state "make dist" would create it)
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20101111 09:36:21< Rhonda> The thing is, what's different with src/lua/ than with src/ itself?
20101111 09:36:35< silene> Rhonda: why are you saying there is a difference?
20101111 09:36:50< Rhonda> Because obviously there is.
20101111 09:37:05< silene> obviously?
20101111 09:37:17< Rhonda> The tools only complain about src/lua/Makefile.in being created but not cleaned, but not about src/Makefile.in
20101111 09:37:24< silene> which tool?
20101111 09:37:33< Rhonda> Either the later isn't created at all, or it gets removed on make distclean.
20101111 09:37:38< Rhonda> dpkg-source
20101111 09:37:44< CIA-81> zookeeper * r47532 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Added and wired in LordBob's portrait for Jevyan.
20101111 09:38:07< Rhonda> When you build and then do a make distclean, you end up with a src/lua/Makefile.in but not with a src/Makefile.in
20101111 09:38:46< silene> Rhonda: i just tried a "make distclean" and i end up with src/Makefile.in
20101111 09:38:52< Rhonda> That's a pretty obvious difference, to me at least (and yes, I know that I didn't mention it that explicitly)
20101111 09:39:15< Rhonda> Hmm, let me check that later tonight again then.
20101111 09:39:28< Rhonda> I don't have my build system at hand right now, and forgot to git push my last changes.  %-/
20101111 09:42:14< silene> Rhonda: i think the bug is on your side, why the hell does wesnoth-1.9_1.9.1-1.diff.gz contains lua/Makefile.in?!
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20101111 09:44:28< Rhonda> Not exactly sure, but it might be that the issue happened in 1.9.1 already, or 1.9.0. Maybe it got fixed in the meantime and 1.9.2 doesn't contain it anymore, not sure.
20101111 09:45:27< Rhonda> The thing is, if it's not removed by make distclean, why isn't there src/Makefile.in in there, too?
20101111 09:46:08< Rhonda> I'll try to investigate that, and maybe it was just some harddisk hickup of strange kinds and we can drop the discussion.
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20101111 09:50:15< silene> Rhonda: how am i supposed to answer a question related to the debian packaging of wesnoth? src/lua/Makefile.in is in the diff file while src/Makefile.in, so obviously it will make a difference; but this doesn't have anything to do with wesnoth per se; that's the choice of the debian packager, not mine
20101111 10:14:09< Rhonda> *sigh*
20101111 10:14:33< Rhonda> My question is why src/Makefile.in doesn't get integrated there but src/lua/Makefile.in
20101111 10:15:22< Rhonda> There seems to be a difference in them two. One seems to not be there anymore after a make distclean. The other is.
20101111 10:16:12< Rhonda> This shouldn't have to do anything with debian packaging of wesnoth. But like said (multiple times) I'll check later tonight.
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20101111 10:25:54< silene> Rhonda: as i said, both of them are still there after "make distclean", there are no difference between except them in wesnoth repository itself (but there is a difference between them in the debian package)
20101111 10:32:10< silene> -except
20101111 10:33:42< Rhonda> And that's what I'll try to figure out how it happened.
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20101111 15:32:39< m4k3r> Seems that the guy named "crab" is online :|
20101111 15:36:31< zookeeper> he's not our crab though.
20101111 15:37:18< m4k3r> :o
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20101111 15:43:33< Lancer2013> Hey guys, I am looking to do another Ai-improvement patch dealing with the Beserker, which files would be best to look at first to understand what I have to work with in order to make the improvement?
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20101111 15:46:29< Grimling> Does someone know when Crab will be online?
20101111 15:47:07< Lancer2013> No, not currently -- he is probably the one I should speak to about this Beserker improvement I plan on doing as well for it is AI-based 
20101111 15:48:06< Lancer2013> He is normally on around 2-5 pm EST and sometimes a bit later on during the night
20101111 15:49:55< Grimling> thanks
20101111 15:50:03< Lancer2013> No pob
20101111 15:50:09< Lancer2013> prob*
20101111 15:52:45< Lancer2013> Crab_: I am wanting to work on the Berserker AI: Which files would be best to look at to see what I have to work with? units.cpp, ai::actions.cpp?
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20101111 16:47:59< CIA-81> timotei * r47533 /website/eclipse.wesnoth.org/doc_howto.html: add link for all downloads
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20101111 20:25:04< Grimling> Crab_: after moving the exe to the root dir of the code, it works
20101111 20:25:15< Crab_> Grimling: good, thanks
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20101111 20:38:55< m4k3r> Crab_:  !
20101111 20:38:59< m4k3r> Are you there?
20101111 20:39:01< Crab_> yes
20101111 20:39:32< m4k3r> I have some questions about GCI, can I ask you?
20101111 20:39:40< Crab_> yes
20101111 20:40:54< pat__> zookeeper: ping
20101111 20:41:39< m4k3r> http://bpaste.net/show/10889/
20101111 20:41:46< m4k3r> Crab_:  ^
20101111 20:42:42< Crab_> m4k3r: yes, 'so I can work without even looking at the game,' is correct
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20101111 20:43:01< zookeeper> pat__, yes?
20101111 20:43:53< Grimling> Crab_: I've also a question about the task
20101111 20:43:54< pat__> I have a few questions about the fire_event bug you reported
20101111 20:44:05< Crab_> m4k3r: I want to lower the barrier of entry (compiling wesnoth takes time and setting environment up takes even more time), so I intend to provide a small program (c++ or lua in case someone wants to do it in lua) which will allow to write the prototype fast
20101111 20:44:07< Grimling> Crab_: is this a real task?
20101111 20:44:12< Grimling> Crab_: or just an example
20101111 20:44:33< Crab_> Grimling: yes, I intend to use the code in wesnoth
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20101111 20:44:37< m4k3r> Crab_:  completely free from internal libraries?
20101111 20:44:47< Crab_> m4k3r: yes
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20101111 20:45:08< Grimling> Crab_: I've made an program for the algorithm, but can I have some example inputs to check if it's correct
20101111 20:45:10< m4k3r> Crab_:  and about external libraries, is there someone I sould look at?
20101111 20:46:08< Crab_> m4k3r: I think that only stl would be needed to compile the example (in case of c++)
20101111 20:46:10< Crab_> Grimling: for example, see http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=31957
20101111 20:46:22< Crab_> Grimling: that's what the people who code scenarios want
20101111 20:46:26< m4k3r> \o/
20101111 20:46:47< Grimling> ok, thank you
20101111 20:47:28< Crab_> Grimling: I can post that code I've promised (it'll contain test cases) on Saturday
20101111 20:47:56< m4k3r> Crab_:  I suppose your program will be done for the 22th. BTW, I've used few times NeuralNetworks and Fuzzy Logic, the task is too simple to use such cool stuff?
20101111 20:48:03< pat__> zookeeper: i have some questions about fire_event i was hoping you could answer?
20101111 20:48:26< zookeeper> pat__, i'm still waiting for the questions.
20101111 20:48:35< Crab_> Grimling: the problem that we're dealing with is that given "I can recruit X,Y,Z" ai tends to recruit Z,Z,Z,Z,Z,Z,Z,Z ... where Z is the most powerful unit available, and that's bad because it can be easily countered
20101111 20:49:50< Crab_> m4k3r: the task is simple, but some other recruitment-related ideas can use neural networks pretty well
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20101111 20:50:09< pat__> zookeeper: Can you you point me toward the segment of code where if the general dies the scenario ends?
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20101111 20:50:29< Crab_> m4k3r: I think that for 22th, there'll be some more AI-related things in the task list
20101111 20:50:37< Grimling> Crab_: would it be better to take more information into account? such as range attack?
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20101111 20:51:51< Crab_> Grimling: note the '(double) how good each unit is ' input to the algorithm - this is currently calculated in a simple way, and it can be improved
20101111 20:52:19< Crab_> Grimling: generally,  a unit is good against some units, and bad against other
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20101111 20:53:09< Crab_> Grimling: so, when you're recruiting, you have a problem like 'enemy has units A,B,C, D in play, and can recruit E,F,G (he has ZZ gold to do that). what should I recruit to make sure my enemy cannot counter me easily ?'
20101111 20:53:09< Grimling> yes, that's what I mean, if there's more information per unit type, and information about the units of the enemy, a better result could be generated
20101111 20:53:40< Grimling> I'll try to make it with the new information
20101111 20:53:42< zookeeper> pat__, umm...
20101111 20:53:56< Crab_> Grimling: yes, you are right. but I want to see the simple result first. once simple thing is done, we can integrate it in wesnoth and start considering possible improvements
20101111 20:54:04< zookeeper> pat__, what are you talking about exactly? i have no idea
20101111 20:54:36< Crab_> Grimling: and the 'ask ai to recruit more cheap units' is wanted option by itself
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20101111 20:55:11< m4k3r> Crab_:  ok, for now my aim is just that simple task. Where will you post the program for developing AIs?
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20101111 20:55:38< Crab_> Grimling: if you want to see the full picture, take into account the fact that map has lots of different terrain, and some terrain will be fought over and some will be ignored (i.e. water or mountains near edges), and unit A vs unit B heavily depends on terrain where they stand.
20101111 20:55:49< Lancer2013> Crab_: I am wanting to work on the Berserker AI: Which files would be best to look at to see what I have to work with? units.cpp, ai::actions.cpp?
20101111 20:55:59< Grimling> that will be a lot of more work ;)
20101111 20:56:09< Crab_> Grimling: and the game can calculate 'combat odds' for each pair of units
20101111 20:56:31< Crab_> Grimling: yes, right. but I want the simple thing to be done first
20101111 20:56:47< Grimling> okay, I'll test it right now
20101111 20:56:55< Crab_> Grimling: and it'll be included in the game, even in a simple state, because it's better then the current way
20101111 20:57:14< Crab_> (and we have a way to test that it'll be better)
20101111 20:58:57< Crab_> Lancer2013: note that 'Berserker AI' is not related to GCI, it's simply a potential ai improvement task
20101111 20:58:59< pat__> zookeeper : Well If I'm understanding your bug report correctly There's a problem when you call [kill] with fire_event, because it kills the "Leader" but does not end the scenario.  What I'm looking for right now is just the genral code of where in a scenario if a leader dies the scenario is ment to end. 
20101111 20:59:16< Crab_> Lancer2013: to work on it, you need to think out your algorithm first
20101111 20:59:40< Crab_> Lancer2013: then, pick a language to implement it. c++ is easiest, lua or formula_ai is also possible
20101111 20:59:51< Crab_> Lancer2013: then, you should find out what a candidate action is
20101111 21:00:12< Crab_> Lancer2013: then, you should code your own candidate action(s) and include them in the AI
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20101111 21:01:03< zookeeper> pat__, what bug report is that?
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20101111 21:01:30< zookeeper> oh, right...
20101111 21:01:33< Crab_> Lancer2013: for example, disable the AI from attacking with berserkers ( see data/ai/scenarios/ai_arena_small/0004-filtered_combat.cfg )
20101111 21:01:55< pat__> zookeeper : bug 16820
20101111 21:02:02< Crab_> Lancer2013: and then add a Candidate Action like 'just after combat, do something useful with berserkers'
20101111 21:02:21< zookeeper> pat__, well, sorry, i don't know anything about the C++ code
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20101111 21:03:44< Lancer2013> Crab_: Okay, much thanks, I finished the other Ai_improvement for PowerProjection and submitted it to you guys -- and so the beserker ai thing grabbed my attention -- thanks again -- will start designing etc for the new patch *beserker one*
20101111 21:03:45< Crab_> Lancer2013: alternate way is to hack something useful with attack_analysis::rating in src/ai/default/attack.cpp
20101111 21:03:59< Crab_> Lancer2013: ok
20101111 21:04:19< Lancer2013> ah attack.cpp ? makes sense
20101111 21:05:09< Crab_> also take a look at src/ai/testing/ca.cpp , there's a combat_phase in there - it's the candidate action for the AI combat phase
20101111 21:05:31< Crab_> it's the user of that attack_analysis rating's
20101111 21:07:39< Lancer2013> Crab_: Much Thanks
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20101111 21:08:09< Soliton> pat__: play_controller::check_victory()
20101111 21:09:35< pat__> Soliton : Thank you! :-)
20101111 21:10:39< Soliton> no problem.
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20101111 21:28:05< shadowmaster> silene: am I right that string.format( _("blah %d blah"), num )  is not possible in Lua? is there any way around that?
20101111 21:28:33< silene> string.format(tostring(_"..."),...)
20101111 21:28:40< shadowmaster> thanks
20101111 21:29:15< silene> it's a bit unfortunate that string.format doesn't do it itself
20101111 21:29:49< Grimling> Crab_: where can I see the quality from the unit reference?
20101111 21:32:21< Crab_> Grimling: see how unit_combat_scores_ is calculated in src/ai/default/ai.cpp ( ai_default_recruitment_stage::analyze_potential_recruit_combat() )
20101111 21:32:50< Grimling> Crab_: thanks
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20101111 21:57:13< shadowmaster> how can I prevent objectives from being displayed on [end_turn] ?
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20101111 22:19:30< zookeeper> shadowmaster, is that the same question as how can i prevent (changed) objectives from being displayed on turn start?
20101111 22:20:35< shadowmaster> well, the scenario in question has empty objectives and it has a [end_turn] action  at the end of the start event.
20101111 22:21:08< shadowmaster> and a dialogue sequence on the turn 2 event which gets interrupted by that pesky "no objectives available" popup
20101111 22:22:34< shadowmaster> I  guess I could try with a turn refresh event later.
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20101111 22:22:55< zookeeper> try using wesnoth.get_side(1).objectives_changed = false, that at least prevents objectives from popping up on the first turn, probably works in your case too
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20101111 22:30:48< Rhonda> silene: solved, the src/lua/Makefile.in is a new one, I already remove all the others on clean target. Sorry for the confusion.
20101111 22:36:09< shadowmaster> zookeeper: yeah. that works, thanks.
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--- Log closed Fri Nov 12 00:00:01 2010