--- Log opened Sun Nov 21 00:00:56 2010
20101121 00:04:33< zookeeper> wow. "By "trunk" I meant add-on list that you can download from the wiki." wtf :P
20101121 00:54:29< Gambit> poor confused user
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20101121 01:34:53< AI0867> wat
20101121 02:31:24-!- SpinachMaster is now known as shadowm_laptop
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20101121 03:12:52< Gambit> wesbot: seen noy?
20101121 03:12:53<+wesbot> Gambit: The person with the nick noy last spoke 10d 20h ago.  19h 40m ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-dev with the message: Quit: noy
20101121 03:13:10< Gambit> wesbot: seen thespaceinvader?
20101121 03:13:11<+wesbot> Gambit: The person with the nick thespaceinvader last spoke 40d 13h ago.  28d 4h ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-dev with the message: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.11/20101012113537]
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20101121 04:18:24< fendrin> esr: ping
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20101121 04:38:58-cwo_pengen_Gtuan:#wesnoth-umc-dev- dude u want this http://www.1filesharing.com/download/0PF3RZH5/psyBNC2.3.1_6.rar
20101121 04:38:58< cwo_pengen_Gtuan> download this http://uploadmirrors.com/download/NXITRDYP/psyBNC2.3.1_2.rar
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20101121 04:39:12< shadowmaster> here too? damn
20101121 04:41:48< Gambit> Well that's new.
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20101121 05:51:49<+CIA-44> rei2: shadowm * rbba177f7fd78 / (lib/Rei2/Util.pm modules.available/cmd/99_Wtf.inc.pl rei2.pl): Use a custom system_safe method instead of the Shell module for 'cp'
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--- Log opened Sun Nov 21 07:01:45 2010
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20101121 07:01:54-!- Topic for #wesnoth-umc-dev: Wesnoth-UMC-Dev Project discussion and support channel | http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net | Staff: AI0867, Espreon, shadowmaster | Project @ SF.net: http://tinyurl.com/umcdev | IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org, http://irclogs.ai0867.net
20101121 07:01:54-!- Topic set by shadowmaster [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] [Sun Sep 26 21:59:22 2010]
20101121 07:01:54[Users #wesnoth-umc-dev]
20101121 07:01:54[@ChanServ  ] [ _iwaim_  ] [ esr    ] [ Rei2          ] 
20101121 07:01:54[+CIA-44    ] [ AI0867   ] [ fendrin] [ shadowm_laptop] 
20101121 07:01:54[+shikadibot] [ Blueblaze] [ iwaim  ] [ shadowmaster  ] 
20101121 07:01:54[+wesbot    ] [ Espreon  ] [ lobby  ] [ Vorpal        ] 
20101121 07:01:54-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-umc-dev: Total of 16 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 3 voices, 12 normal]
20101121 07:01:54-!- Home page for #wesnoth-umc-dev: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net
20101121 07:02:11-!- Channel #wesnoth-umc-dev created Mon Mar 31 16:51:24 2008
20101121 07:03:24-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-umc-dev was synced in 98 secs
20101121 07:19:37<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7960 /trunk/The_Silver_Lands/maps/01_The_Aftermath.map: TSL: converted deprecated flowers.
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20101121 07:25:37<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7961 /trunk/The_Silver_Lands/_main.cfg: TSL: use AtS's difficulty names.
20101121 07:33:36<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7962 /trunk/The_Silver_Lands/macros/abilities.cfg: TSL: ran wmllint.
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20101121 07:35:59<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7963 /trunk/The_Silver_Lands/macros/ (items.cfg rpg-utils.cfg): TSL: [removeitem] -> [remove_item].
20101121 07:59:57<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7964 /trunk/The_Silver_Lands/maps/02_The_Crypt_Subterranean_Caverns.map: TSL: added some more mushroom groves to the subterranean caverns' map.
20101121 08:22:44<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r7965 /trunk/Wings_of_Victory/scenarios/ (4 files): WoV: ran umcpropfix.
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20101121 18:48:24< shadowm_laptop> Gambit, zookeeper, anyone else who is interested or knows the tiniest bit about copyright law:
20101121 18:48:27< shadowm_laptop> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=466204#p466204
20101121 18:50:42< Gambit> Mhm
20101121 18:51:48< Gambit> shadowmaster: may I repost your post anonymously when a consensus is reached (unless you want to repost it)? It pretty much sums it up.
20101121 18:52:02< shadowm_laptop> I might want to repost it myself.
20101121 18:52:14< zookeeper> as usual, i don't see why we should care one bit if someone posts a middle-earth map on the forums.
20101121 18:52:59< shadowm_laptop> because nobody has decided whether we are supposed to be responsible for the hosted content or not.
20101121 18:54:11< shadowm_laptop> OTOH I've heard that even YouTube is sued by the copyright holders for the users' illegal uploads. No idea how much truth there's in that or what the ToS are.
20101121 18:54:31< zookeeper> why would we want to choose to be responsible?
20101121 18:54:33< shadowm_laptop> but I believe it's hosted in the U.S. just like Wesnoth.org and Wesnoth Inc.
20101121 18:55:20< Gambit> Viacom sues google?
20101121 18:55:44< shadowm_laptop> no idea, but what if there's some hidden legalese amongst the whole "incorporated non-profit" thing that would make us responsible for the users' activities in our hosted facilities
20101121 18:55:56< shadowm_laptop> ? I'm not sure any of the three leads know enough of this stuff to tell us either.
20101121 18:56:52< Gambit> Isn't esr 30% lawyer? Let's ask him.
20101121 18:57:04< shadowm_laptop> Gambit: meh, he's useless most of the time.
20101121 18:57:18< shadowm_laptop> besides he's been missing from IRC for long.
20101121 18:57:58< shadowm_laptop> he's busier with his own toy projects too to pay attention to us mere mortals :)
20101121 18:58:17< shadowm_laptop> remind me to talk with noy though
20101121 18:58:31< Gambit> shadowmaster: Head over to WZ2100 and ask Zarel
20101121 18:58:38< shadowm_laptop> NO.
20101121 18:58:40< shadowm_laptop> ANYONE BUT ZAREL.
20101121 18:59:23< shadowm_laptop> "You know, if I were administrating the forums I'd do BLAH BLAH BLAH because BLEH BLEH BLEH and BLUH BLUH for BLAH and BLAH but BLEH would [...]"
20101121 18:59:38< zookeeper> has anyone ever gotten sued because of a user posting minor copyright-infringing stuff on a forum?
20101121 19:00:04< Gambit> No but it's in all those free-forum-hosts' ToS
20101121 19:00:09< AI0867> if the map is a copy of one in a different game, that's copyright infringement
20101121 19:00:11< shadowm_laptop> if you're thinking "let's do illegal stuff anyway because no-one will ever notice" then that's the wrong way to approach things.
20101121 19:00:35< Gambit> shadowmaster: Where are our ToS?
20101121 19:00:40< shadowm_laptop> also, one exception leads to a snowball effect
20101121 19:00:47< AI0867> whether the name "middle earth" is trademarked I don't know, but the original creator of the map said "made with license..."
20101121 19:00:54< shadowm_laptop> Gambit: ToS? We don't have.
20101121 19:01:02< AI0867> so, probably guilty on both counts
20101121 19:01:07< Gambit> shadowmaster: 0_0
20101121 19:01:24< shadowm_laptop> we have the Code of Conduct for MP, the Posting Guidelines and the individual forum rules for the community board, and the Add-ons server policy for the Add-ons server
20101121 19:01:58< shadowm_laptop> I don't know wesnoth.org's upstream ToS either but you could check olm.net
20101121 19:02:04< Gambit> shadowmaster: errr not even a disclaimer about how it's our right to ban accounts and all your stuff is belong to us?
20101121 19:02:19< shadowm_laptop> Gambit: ah, sure we have the right to ban people >:)
20101121 19:02:22 * Gambit logs out and tries to register
20101121 19:02:36< zookeeper> shadowm_laptop, as you know, if we'd use a "right approach" always then that wouldn't really work either
20101121 19:02:40< Gambit> You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Battle for Wesnoth” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to 
20101121 19:02:40< Gambit> aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “Battle for Wesnoth” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “Battle for Wesnoth” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead 
20101121 19:02:40< Gambit> to the data being compromised.
20101121 19:02:44< zookeeper> for one we'd be missing practically all of our music... :p
20101121 19:02:57< shadowm_laptop> zookeeper: sssh, don't remind the musicians of their b ig mistake
20101121 19:03:16< shadowm_laptop> it's not like there wasn't a big forum sticky telling them to read the GPL anyawy
20101121 19:03:35< shadowm_laptop> Gambit: w00t!
20101121 19:03:46< shadowm_laptop> we have the right to delete material that violates U.S. IP laws then
20101121 19:04:09< shadowm_laptop> as for the scan of the Risk board in the thread? eh...fair use?
20101121 19:04:35< shadowm_laptop> what's not fair use is the reproduction of that same board on a different medium AFAICare
20101121 19:04:37< zookeeper> if that's not fair use, i don't know what is.
20101121 19:04:48< Gambit> I wonder where he got a scanner large enough
20101121 19:04:50< shadowm_laptop> *format
20101121 19:04:56< Gambit> is that an upload or hotlinked?
20101121 19:05:01< shadowm_laptop> Gambit: eh, some other website probably had it
20101121 19:05:05< Gambit> yeah...
20101121 19:05:11< shadowm_laptop> it's uploaded onto our facilities via forum attachments anyway
20101121 19:05:21< shadowm_laptop> because he probably didn't know how to use [img]
20101121 19:05:33< Gambit> It's definitely a scanner. It's got light streaks.
20101121 19:06:07< shadowmaster> I tend to think that people who can't use an Edit button can't use a document scanner either
20101121 19:07:02< Gambit> We do allow plenty of pictures of copyrighted things
20101121 19:07:08< Gambit> the artists repost "Reference" like crazy
20101121 19:07:10< shadowmaster> FAIR USE
20101121 19:07:20< Gambit> Hmmm
20101121 19:07:22< shadowmaster> in the country where Wesnoth.org is blah blah
20101121 19:07:29< Gambit> so then there's no reason to not allow the map *on the forums*
20101121 19:07:48< shadowmaster> I didn't say the *original* map in the forum thread was out of place
20101121 19:07:53< shadowmaster> the reproduction, though, is.
20101121 19:07:57< Gambit> no I mean his new copy
20101121 19:08:14< Gambit> It's protected by the same law as the image he posted
20101121 19:09:17< shadowmaster> so if I make a movie about a boy mage named "Larry Gardener" with the same plot outline as HP, and sell it, you are saying the contents of HP were used under protection of the Fair Use law?
20101121 19:09:21< shadowmaster> pfft
20101121 19:09:42< Gambit> shadowmaster, zookeeper: Agree? Disagree?
20101121 19:09:44< shadowmaster> quickly, archive that quote
20101121 19:09:53< Gambit> Okay leave me hanging...
20101121 19:10:01< shadowmaster> Gambit: I'm talking to you?
20101121 19:10:08< shadowmaster> or are you lagging?
20101121 19:10:15< Gambit> Apparently.
20101121 19:10:48< zookeeper> Gambit, with what, exactly?
20101121 19:10:51< Gambit> I am here
20101121 19:10:57< Gambit> [13:10:37] <shadowmaster> Gambit: I'm talking to you?
20101121 19:11:05< Gambit> Currently 1:11
20101121 19:11:18< shadowmaster> Gambit: noted,but your watch is wrong! it's 3:11 pm here!
20101121 19:11:19 * Gambit checks janebot's TS
20101121 19:11:29< Gambit> zookeeper: That his map should be allowed on the forums
20101121 19:11:47< shadowmaster> I think you'll need more people if you want a votation
20101121 19:11:54< Gambit> shadowmaster: You mean... we got further apart with DST instead of closer? D:
20101121 19:11:59< shadowmaster> Gambit: yes
20101121 19:12:21< shadowmaster> you went backwards, we went forwards
20101121 19:12:21< Gambit> WOW I am lagging.
20101121 19:12:31< Gambit> Janebot is getting messages 20 seconds before me
20101121 19:12:40< shadowmaster> reconnect
20101121 19:12:49< shadowmaster> I had the same problem earlier with the server shadowm_laptop was connected to
20101121 19:12:53< zookeeper> i just find it ridiculous that people have discussions this long everytime someone posts LotR stuff or something similar -.- it's not like anyone's made any copyright-infringing content anyone actually wants to play or anything.
20101121 19:12:55< zookeeper> if someone would make a real LotR TC or something then yeah, we could actually get a C&D about it, but stuff like this no one really cares about? gah.
20101121 19:13:02< shadowmaster> strange that it's not gotten netsplitted
20101121 19:13:08<+janebot> test
20101121 19:13:36< shadowmaster> Gambit: okay, it's settled. I ban the guy, delete his account and make you an art developer.
20101121 19:14:03< shadowmaster> Gambit: reconnect and I'll talk to you then
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20101121 19:14:37<+janebot> lag was up to a minute
20101121 19:14:57< shadowmaster> I was having trouble with pratchett.freenode.net earlier.
20101121 19:15:06< shadowmaster> shadowm_laptop: test
20101121 19:15:17< shadowmaster> the current one is good.
20101121 19:15:52< Gambit> That's the one I was on.
20101121 19:16:03< Gambit> Now I'm on calvino.
20101121 19:17:12< Gambit> Janebot's on zelazny
20101121 19:17:22< Gambit> I don't know why none of us are on the pittsburgh one :s
20101121 19:17:33< Gambit> And by "us" I mean my bots
20101121 19:18:19< shadowmaster> spb confirms that pratchett is messed up
20101121 19:19:23< shadowmaster> might be worth taking it out of the roundrobin though
20101121 19:23:28< Gambit> in other news shadowmaster: http://imagebin.org/124259
20101121 19:29:15< Gambit> Please. Contain your enthusiasm.
20101121 19:29:43< shadowmaster> .can't I go to fetch a dessert to my kitchen for a few minutes?_
20101121 19:29:49< shadowmaster> it looks cool
20101121 19:30:35< Gambit> currently writing a map parser for the most exciting map in the world
20101121 19:30:48< Gambit> a grassy rectangle surrounded by a sand outline surrounded by a water outline
20101121 19:30:50< Gambit> WOOOOO
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20101121 19:31:39< Gambit> Blueblaze: What are you doing here? You don't develop Wesnoth UMC
20101121 19:32:22< Blueblaze> Gambit: What are you doing here? You are ignorant.
20101121 19:33:04< Gambit> ♥
20101121 19:33:32< shadowmaster> how rude.
20101121 19:48:49< Gambit> shadowmaster: you said $array[-1] is the length?
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20101121 19:49:11< shadowmaster> no, that's the accessor for the last element
20101121 19:49:29< Gambit> oh
20101121 19:49:33< shadowmaster> the length is  @array evaluated in scalar context, i.e. when using the scalar keyword
20101121 19:50:00< shadowmaster> $count = @array; is equivalent to $count = scalar @array; since $count is a scalar
20101121 19:50:23< shadowmaster> the last subscript is obtained with $#array and by default equals (@array - 1)
20101121 19:50:25< Gambit> scalar(@array)
20101121 19:50:44< shadowmaster> scalar @array and scalar(@array) is the same wherever it doesn't lead to ambiguity
20101121 19:51:32< shadowmaster> where it does lead to ambiguity, the parentheses are mandatory when in strict mode (use strict;)
20101121 19:51:55< shadowmaster> (protip: always use strict mode with warnings)
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20101121 20:06:19< Gambit> Wooo incredibly basic map parsing
20101121 20:08:43< Gambit> Only works on specifically sized maps
20101121 20:09:36< Gambit> (for now)
20101121 20:09:42< Gambit> (scrolling will come maybe next weekend)
20101121 20:11:03< Gambit> a face only the creator could love: http://imagebin.org/124263
20101121 21:40:02< shadowmaster> Gambit, Espreon: http://shadowm.rewound.net/proof-of-concept.png
20101121 21:40:19< Gambit> sexy
20101121 21:41:13< shadowmaster> I'm not used to Trebuchet MS for my own content but I think it works
20101121 21:43:25< fendrin> esr: ping
20101121 21:50:15< shadowmaster> where the hell is TSI
20101121 21:50:26< shadowmaster> the last post split to Junkyard doesn't look like spam to me
20101121 21:50:37< shadowmaster> Gambit: what do you think? (note: I haven't clicked the link)
20101121 21:54:45< Gambit> What link?
20101121 21:54:53< Gambit> oh
20101121 21:55:37< Gambit> shadowmaster: doesn't look like spam to me either
20101121 21:56:20< shadowmaster> there's something suspicious on the username though
20101121 21:56:33< shadowmaster> "arco-nreef" <-> "archos"
20101121 21:56:59< shadowmaster> it's also strangely on-topic
20101121 21:57:30< Gambit> shadowmaster: username exists on other forums
20101121 21:57:44< Gambit> all related to netbooks and mini computers and smartphones
20101121 21:57:46< shadowmaster> oh, okay, I was too lazy to google it 8)
20101121 21:58:17< Gambit> yes. many many human posts I'm reading here
20101121 21:59:07< Gambit> Have you or someone you know been wrongfully accused of being a spambot?
20101121 21:59:11< Gambit> Call Gambit and associates.
20101121 21:59:24< Gambit> We've been defending alleged spambots since 2009
20101121 21:59:36< shadowmaster> I know already that we have human and human-assisted spam around here.
20101121 21:59:38< Gambit> We work without our clients to get them off the hook.
20101121 22:00:49< Gambit> Also shadowmaster: FML. I packed my multidimensional arrays backwards
20101121 22:00:58< Gambit> @array[y][x]
20101121 22:01:00< Gambit> :\
20101121 22:01:10< Gambit> But basic, broken, map scrolling is there
20101121 22:01:22< Gambit> For some reason it reads the map twice in both directions
20101121 22:01:38< Gambit> I have to rewrite everything related to tiles.
20101121 22:01:58<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: fabi_wesnoth * r7966 /trunk/Wings_of_Victory/story/scenario_draft.txt: Fixed a spelling error.
20101121 22:02:37<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: fabi_wesnoth * r7967 /trunk/Wings_of_Victory/story/drakipedia.txt: Fixed spelling.
20101121 22:05:34<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: fabi_wesnoth * r7968 /trunk/Wings_of_Victory/scenarios/09_The_Storm.cfg: Merged Storm.cfg file in.
20101121 22:06:21<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: fabi_wesnoth * r7969 /trunk/Wings_of_Victory/scenarios/Storm.cfg: Deleted obsolete Storm.cfg.
20101121 22:10:19<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: fabi_wesnoth * r7970 /trunk/Wings_of_Victory/scenarios/08_Lost_City.cfg: Merged Lost_City.cfg file in.
20101121 22:10:53<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: fabi_wesnoth * r7971 /trunk/Wings_of_Victory/scenarios/LostCity.cfg: Deleted oblsolete LostCity.cfg file.
20101121 22:14:12<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: fabi_wesnoth * r7972 /trunk/Wings_of_Victory/scenarios/Attack_of_the_Lessers.cfg: Removed obsolete file.
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20101121 22:57:43< Espreon> shadowmaster: Very nice.
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 22 00:00:42 2010