--- Log opened Thu Dec 02 00:00:43 2010
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20101202 00:11:59< Crab_> Grimling: hello
20101202 00:12:04< Grimling> Crab_: hi
20101202 00:12:33< Crab_> Grimling: I've managed to fix some of the issues ( get_recruit_qualities was quite buggy ), and things became better
20101202 00:13:26< Crab_> Grimling: but now I'm hitting another problem, the cause of which is known, and I'm trying some workarounds...
20101202 00:14:07< Grimling> Crab_: do you mean the attack / defense?
20101202 00:14:48< Crab_> Grimling: no, I mean that now I'm seeing the proper counter-recruiting, but the fact that we pretend that we recruit 1 unit but allow the enemy to counter with up to 5 gives me some trouble
20101202 00:15:20< Crab_> because it hides the fact that after recruiting that 1 unit, we will be able to recruit more
20101202 00:15:42< Crab_> but the good thing is, that I'm seeing the proper counters to be counter-recruited
20101202 00:17:24< ZumZoom> Crab_, hi
20101202 00:17:28< ZumZoom> http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129042216533
20101202 00:18:05< ZumZoom> may i ask you to check the work?
20101202 00:18:12< Crab_> ZumZoom: hello. yes, of course. I'll review it in an hour.
20101202 00:18:28< ZumZoom> thx a lot)
20101202 00:19:00< Grimling> Crab_: is that really a problem?
20101202 00:20:32< Crab_> Grimling: I suspect that. but there may be some other problems, I see issues during playtesting
20101202 00:21:38< Crab_> but it might be caused by poor old combat scoring function
20101202 00:22:24< Grimling> Crab_: maybe it can be solved easier when the recruiting algorithm separates the defence from the attack
20101202 00:23:19< Crab_> Grimling: no, I see a few places to fix, and I want to try fixing them now
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20101202 00:23:45< Grimling> Crab_: ok
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20101202 00:30:55< Crab_> I had to simplify the get_combat_score function, as well
20101202 00:32:56< Grimling> Crab_: can you send the code with your changes, please? I'd like to know my mistakes
20101202 00:33:21< Crab_> mainly I used the code like the one in analyze_combat_scores function
20101202 00:33:48< Crab_> if I manage to get it working, more or less, I'll commit the changes, you'll be able to see them
20101202 00:34:05< Grimling> Crab_: ok
20101202 00:34:11< Grimling> Crab_: what can I do now?
20101202 00:35:37< Crab_> Grimling: think about the following (it might be useful later) : when computing unit qualities, terrain matters. but, different parts of the map have different terrains
20101202 00:36:19< Crab_> Grimling: and, only a part of the map is used in battle (e.g., the terrain on the halfway of the paths between the keeps usually sees more action than corners of the map
20101202 00:36:54< Crab_> it is possible to improve recruiting by analyzing the map and figuring out the 'most important areas' and making note of the terrain in it
20101202 00:37:14< Crab_> in 2009, Dragonking coded a recruitment which used this approach, in formula ai
20101202 00:37:46< Grimling> Crab_: do you mean for defending the keep? And where can I find that code?
20101202 00:37:52< Crab_> it's in data/ai/formula/lib/ and data/ai/formula/new_recruitment.fai
20101202 00:38:00< Grimling> Crab_: thanks
20101202 00:38:23< Crab_> his code was able to 'select' the most important parts of the map
20101202 00:40:35< Grimling> Crab_: is that Lua?
20101202 00:40:43< Crab_> no, it's formula_ai
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20101202 00:40:50< Crab_> it's a wesnoth-specific language
20101202 00:41:18< Crab_> there's a manual in the wiki
20101202 00:41:44< Crab_> you can either try to read his code or think about some ideas about how-to-select-important-map-areas
20101202 00:41:54< Grimling> Crab_: ok, does the version of which I have to think also need to be in formula_ai? or in c++?
20101202 00:42:36< Crab_> we'll improve your c++ recruitment code
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20101202 00:42:47< Grimling> Crab_: ok
20101202 00:43:16< Grimling> Crab_:  is there something that needs to be done for the curent GCI task or can you close him?
20101202 00:43:37< Crab_> one quick idea is 'get all villages, check to which villages I'll get first, check to which villages he'll get first, and note the terrain near those villages which are 50/50
20101202 00:44:16< Grimling> Crab_: I'll think of some formulas
20101202 00:44:59< Crab_> about the current GCI task - after some bugfixing, I'm seeing counter-recruitment at work, but I still want to fix some more issues in it before I'm confident. I think that I'll close the task soon, because the general approach is working (there are bugs in your get_combat_score implementations, and I've replaced them with simpler ones)
20101202 00:45:22< Crab_> the idea is 'recruit units which are good on the terrain near important areas'
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20101202 00:46:07< Crab_> but think about your own ideas, as well. try to be very simple at first
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20101202 00:53:54< Grimling> Crab_: I'll need to go now, if you have more information, can you just send an IRC message? I'll read the log
20101202 00:54:02< Crab_> ok
20101202 00:54:16< Grimling> thanks
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20101202 01:06:50< reid_> Crab_: is everything ok with my patch?
20101202 01:07:17< Crab_> reid_: haven't checked it yet, doing some unrelated debugging at the moment, will check it out after.
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20101202 01:30:11< Crab_> ZumZoom: I've checked out your code. most is ok, there's one place where you misconverted turns= , but I'll close the task anyway, it's a minor issue which can easily be fixed.
20101202 01:31:14< Crab_> thanks
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20101202 02:37:57< Crab_> Grimling : please recheck and submit  ca_testing_recruitment.cpp (or a link to it) as work, then I'll be able to close the task.
20101202 02:38:58< Crab_> Grimling: the conclusion is : it works, after I fixed quality calculations to be simpler and more like the old ones. but, the new algorithm has some bugs and is less random so it exposes glitches in get_combat_score implementation.
20101202 02:39:51< CIA-28> crab * r47771 /trunk/src/ai/testing/ca_testing_recruitment.cpp: updated experimental recruitment algorithm
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20101202 07:01:34< Grimling> Crab_: thanks for debugging, I've submitted the file http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129060261811
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20101202 10:27:12< Ivanovic> moin
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20101202 13:54:26< AI0867> Ivanovic: not yet
20101202 14:34:29-!- Mussious [~kamil@dfj221.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101202 14:35:50< Mussious> Hi
20101202 14:35:54< Mussious> Will 1.9 become stable before new year?
20101202 14:37:06< zookeeper> no
20101202 14:37:33< zookeeper> in the next 6 months, probably. as always there's no set dates.
20101202 14:37:33-!- einHarzil [harzi@camelot.germanistik.fu-berlin.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101202 14:37:35< einHarzil> hi
20101202 14:37:56< Mussious> ok, thanks
20101202 14:38:05< einHarzil> has there been any work put into http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30020&start=0 (is there a bug report for it?)
20101202 14:38:57< einHarzil> i understand checking for time limit might be necessary in vs games, it just made me unable to play in orocia because i kept oosing (flaky wireless connection)
20101202 14:39:04< Soliton> no (maybe)
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20101202 14:39:54< einHarzil> think it's hard to implement? (i imagine you'd need another roundtrip before you can allow the next turn to start)
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20101202 15:27:14< AI0867> Ivanovic: applied to become a mentor
20101202 15:27:55< elias> oh no, more dementors
20101202 15:27:57< Ivanovic> AI0867: okay, added you in
20101202 15:28:11< Ivanovic> talk to crab_ how to easily get tasks "mass created"
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20101202 16:05:31< AI0867> crab: 15:28 < Ivanovic> talk to crab_ how to easily get tasks "mass created"
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20101202 16:06:09< Ivanovic> AI0867: i don't see him online here...
20101202 16:06:17< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen crab_
20101202 16:06:17< wesbot> Ivanovic: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 13h 27m ago.  8h 5m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20101202 16:06:31< AI0867> Ivanovic: I know, message for log
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20101202 16:17:13< xenocratus01> Espreon: you here?
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20101202 17:19:43< CIA-28> timotei * r47772 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth/readme/README.tex: 
20101202 17:19:43< CIA-28> eclipse plugin: update the documentation to include
20101202 17:19:43< CIA-28> requirements for python
20101202 17:20:00< CIA-28> timotei * r47773 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml/ (5 files in 4 dirs): eclipse plugin:more strings externalization
20101202 17:20:16< timotei> hi :)
20101202 17:20:30< timotei> hm, new people I see ^_^
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20101202 19:49:46< mordante> servus
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20101202 20:24:38< jburns20> Hi, I submitted work for the google code-in task over a week ago, and nobody has responded. I would like to claim another task, but I can't until this one is reviewed. Thanks! -- http://socghop.appspot.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129042344383
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20101202 20:30:41< Soliton> Crab_: ^
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20101202 20:36:06< jburns20> timotei: Is there any way I can contact Iurii (Crab_) about the google code-in task that I completed? It doesn't seem like he's online.\
20101202 20:36:10-!- Bob_The_Mighty_ is now known as Bob_The_Mighty
20101202 20:36:38< Grimling> jburns20: normally he reads the log
20101202 20:36:42< timotei> jburns20: well, he usually is around this time if he is not busy with other things
20101202 20:37:03< timotei> but yeah, usually wesnoth guys who come and go (that is, not idle on the channel), usually read the log
20101202 20:37:21< timotei> and also our belowed wesbot can remind/tell them, they was someone looking for them:
20101202 20:37:26< timotei> wesbot: seen Crab_
20101202 20:37:26< wesbot> timotei: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 17h 58m ago.  12h 36m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20101202 20:38:10< jburns20> yeah he's the mentor for my google code-in task and he hasn't reviewed it yet...
20101202 20:38:38< jburns20> http://socghop.appspot.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129042344383
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20101202 22:03:18< mordante> I'm off night
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20101202 23:28:57-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 184 bugs, 300 feature requests, 21 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 03 00:00:49 2010