--- Log opened Sun Dec 05 00:00:33 2010
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20101205 00:38:45< iwontbecreative1> Hmmm
20101205 00:38:54< iwontbecreative1>  Really hard to reproduce this bug
20101205 00:39:10< iwontbecreative1> Just found one that alreayd had in DiD when playtesting
20101205 00:40:05< iwontbecreative1> My stats inflicted had suddenly quickly grown, I tought it was only because I was lucky (Even tough it didn't seemed so)
20101205 00:40:18< iwontbecreative1> But now this happened in a UMC campaign
20101205 00:40:51< iwontbecreative1> How do I know if it's a campaign bug or not ?
20101205 00:45:23< Soliton> does it matter?
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20101205 00:57:56< iwontbecreative1> It's not an official campaign
20101205 00:58:01< iwontbecreative1>  So it does I think
20101205 00:58:08< iwontbecreative1> If I want to submit it to wesnoth bugs
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20101205 03:18:18< Bob_The_Mighty> can anyone tell me how to disallow the recall list for certain scenarios during a campaign?
20101205 03:19:00< Crab_> disallow_recall=yes
20101205 03:19:17< Crab_> in disallow_recall=yes
20101205 03:19:21< Crab_> in [scenario]
20101205 03:20:05< Crab_> (for example, used in Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/09_Houses_of_the_Undead.cfg )
20101205 03:23:02< Bob_The_Mighty> thanks
20101205 03:23:19< Bob_The_Mighty> i don't suppose there is a simple way to have two recall lists on the go
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20101205 03:24:40< Crab_> afair yes, there's no way. Either deal with recall lists manually or have the player control 2+ persistent sides and transfer the leader from side to side manually.
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20101205 03:25:21< Crab_> I guess that 'mess with recall lists in prestart' is the safest route.
20101205 03:25:40< Bob_The_Mighty> Okay, but how does one mess with that?
20101205 03:27:20< Crab_> Bob_The_Mighty: I'd check DM - it does a lot of tricks with recall lists.
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20101205 03:29:00< Crab_> ( in particular, things in utils/sides.cfg )
20101205 03:31:25< Bob_The_Mighty> okay, pretty dense, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction
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20101205 05:20:19< iwontbecreative1> If someone wants to review and commit https://gna.org/patch/index.php?2238 it should be pretty fast
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20101205 05:29:51< iwontbecreative1> Nvm, looks like there's no aspect for turns
20101205 05:29:59< iwontbecreative1> Causes a warning
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20101205 10:11:02< Ivanovic> moin
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20101205 10:47:37< CIA-28> zookeeper * r47785 /trunk/data/core/macros/abilities.cfg: Applied patch #2236: Make submerge ability work in tropical and gray deep water.
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20101205 11:07:22< timotei> morning
20101205 11:07:31< timotei> Ivanovic: is there any template to be used for creating tasks?
20101205 11:09:03< boucman> not formally
20101205 11:09:36< timotei> also, do I need to pay attention to something, so I don't "publish" by mistake a task? For example, I'd like to create some task drafts
20101205 11:09:57< timotei> but not publish them till I feel they are giving enough details for the student
20101205 11:10:19< boucman> I think all tasks need to be validated by an admin before they go public...
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20101205 11:10:26< timotei> oh
20101205 11:10:27< timotei> good
20101205 11:10:37< boucman> there is an explicit publish action, not sure if you need to be admin or mentor to do it
20101205 11:12:15< Ivanovic> i think it is an admin task to approve/publish
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20101205 11:28:57-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 188 bugs, 302 feature requests, 23 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20101205 11:37:04< timotei> Ivanovic: do we have a youtube channel?
20101205 11:37:17< Ivanovic> no
20101205 11:37:48< Rhonda> do we have more than one video?
20101205 11:38:11< Rhonda> Do you want to put "walkthrough" videos on youtube? ;)
20101205 11:39:01< boucman> tactical advices :)
20101205 11:39:56< timotei> I was thinking at first, tutorials on how to install&use the wesnoth umc plugin
20101205 11:40:17< timotei> most people would like that instead of reading a "stupid" readme
20101205 11:41:05< timotei> btw, did you see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftETabwA06g ?
20101205 11:41:11< timotei> wesnoth on iPad
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20101205 12:17:26< CIA-28> ivanovic * r47786 /trunk/po/wesnoth-utbs/fi.po: updated Finnish translation
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20101205 14:09:37< CIA-28> caslav_ilic * r47787 /trunk/l10n-track: Unfuzzied images fuzzied due to size optimizations.
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20101205 15:00:32< timotei> just out of curiosity, does anyone know how much trafic does ONLY the forums do?
20101205 15:00:50< timotei> the forum for my classmates (about 150 persons) do about 5-7 gigs each month
20101205 15:00:54< timotei> and it seems huge for me
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20101205 15:05:48< elias> my personal server which does my IRC account and a website without visitors also gets > 5GB / month
20101205 15:06:38< elias> it's only about 2-3 KB/sec
20101205 15:07:01< elias> all the ssh hack attempts alone make half of it i guess
20101205 15:07:43< Gambit> Huh?
20101205 15:08:04< elias> 2 (KB / sec) = 5.0158383 GB / month
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20101205 15:14:03< timotei> wow
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20101205 15:42:57< mordante> servus
20101205 15:43:06< timotei> oh hi mordante 
20101205 15:43:09< timotei> long time no see
20101205 15:43:09< timotei> :D
20101205 15:43:15< mordante> hi timotei, likewise
20101205 15:43:36< timotei> hmm, I don't see any user named likewise :-/
20101205 15:43:51< timotei> oh, yeah. that's a word
20101205 15:44:00< mordante> likewise in as haven't seen you for a while as well ;-)
20101205 15:56:56< mordante> Ivanovic, regarding bug 17152 it might make sense IIRC libintl is now part of libc on Linux but that might be different on *BSD
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20101205 16:11:26< Ivanovic> mordante: no idea what the real setup these days in regards to libintl is
20101205 16:11:50< Ivanovic> mordante: i just assume that an unused script inside out tree might be unused for a reason (like not being required or offered by mainline)
20101205 16:12:04< mordante> Ivanovic, me neither but I'll test the patch and if it doesn't break things I'll apply it
20101205 16:12:06< Ivanovic> yes, i know that libintl is required on windows to run wesnoth
20101205 16:12:58< mordante> true but like I said I'm quite sure it's part of libc now
20101205 16:14:29< Ivanovic> you are right, at least regarding my system
20101205 16:14:35< Ivanovic> the file /usr/include/libintl.h is provided by glibc
20101205 16:16:01< mordante> yeah ran into it at my work a while ago
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20101205 17:24:37< iwontbecreative> Does someone knows how to convert turns= x-y from old Ai syntax to new Ai syntax ?
20101205 17:24:49< iwontbecreative> Just setting an aspect doiesn't work
20101205 17:25:49< Soliton> probably have to wait for Crab to answer.
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20101205 17:28:13< timotei> iwontbecreative: you could take a look to already done tasks like that
20101205 17:28:21< timotei> iwontbecreative: also, iirc, there is the webpage for that
20101205 17:28:37< timotei> iwontbecreative: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GCI/Port_AI_WML_configuration_to_new_style_syntax
20101205 17:28:57-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 188 bugs, 302 feature requests, 22 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20101205 17:29:18< iwontbecreative> Okay, hadn't found on the website
20101205 17:29:26< timotei> :)
20101205 17:29:29< iwontbecreative> Just found :)
20101205 17:30:02< iwontbecreative> But this isn't for GCI, it's just to learn a bit how WML is and do something usefull ;)
20101205 17:30:19< timotei> :)
20101205 17:30:32< iwontbecreative> And the problem with tasks is that there's mostly .zip, .diff are easier to search
20101205 17:30:49< iwontbecreative> And lighter to download
20101205 17:31:00< timotei> I don't want to be bad, but I think it's not worthy to learn WML if you're not going to use it inside wesnoth
20101205 17:31:11< timotei> shadowmaster: or is it? ^
20101205 17:32:04< shadowmaster> well, I assume that if you want to learn WML you also want to work with Wesnoth.
20101205 17:32:05< iwontbecreative> Nah, I know WMl is useless if it's not for wesnoth
20101205 17:32:19< iwontbecreative> I know python and ruby for normal coding ;)
20101205 17:33:05< timotei> is it bad if the font makes me salivate?
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20101205 17:51:30< iwontbecreative> timotei: Thanks, that allowed me to make my patch work ;)
20101205 17:51:43< timotei> iwontbecreative: yw
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20101205 19:07:27< CIA-28> mordante * r47788 /trunk/src/ai/configuration.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:07:30< CIA-28> mordante * r47789 /trunk/src/ai/formula/candidates.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:07:35< CIA-28> mordante * r47790 /trunk/src/ai/testing/ca.hpp: Remove an unneeded include.
20101205 19:07:36< CIA-28> mordante * r47791 /trunk/src/ai/manager.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:07:39< CIA-28> mordante * r47792 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/event/dispatcher_private.hpp: 
20101205 19:07:40< CIA-28> Fix some parameter shadowing.
20101205 19:07:40< CIA-28> Issue found with clang 2.8.
20101205 19:07:42< CIA-28> mordante * r47793 /trunk/src/ai/composite/engine.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:07:47< CIA-28> mordante * r47794 /trunk/src/ai/composite/engine_default.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:07:48< CIA-28> mordante * r47795 /trunk/src/ai/composite/engine_fai.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:07:52< CIA-28> mordante * r47796 /trunk/src/ai/composite/goal.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:07:54< CIA-28> mordante * r47797 /trunk/src/ai/composite/property_handler.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:07:57< CIA-28> mordante * r47798 /trunk/src/ai/composite/stage.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:08:02< CIA-28> mordante * r47799 /trunk/src/ai/composite/engine_lua.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:08:03< CIA-28> mordante * r47800 /trunk/src/ai/composite/rca.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:08:06< CIA-28> mordante * r47801 /trunk/src/ai/composite/value_translator.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
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20101205 19:09:00< CIA-28> mordante * r47819 /trunk/src/ai/testing/ca_testing_recruitment.cpp: Initialize all members.
20101205 19:09:05< CIA-28> mordante * r47820 /trunk/src/unit_frame.cpp: Initialize all members.
20101205 19:09:06< CIA-28> mordante * r47821 /trunk/src/ai/composite/ (component.cpp component.hpp property_handler.hpp): Remove an unneeded include.
20101205 19:09:10< CIA-28> mordante * r47822 /trunk/src/ai/testing/ca_testing_recruitment.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
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20101205 19:09:16< CIA-28> mordante * r47824 /trunk/src/ (formula_string_utils.cpp formula_string_utils.hpp): Remove an unneeded include.
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20101205 19:09:21< CIA-28> mordante * r47826 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/lobby_main.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
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20101205 19:09:30< CIA-28> mordante * r47828 /trunk/src/server/ (player.hpp room.cpp): Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:09:43< CIA-28> mordante * r47829 /trunk/src/server/ (room_manager.hpp server.hpp): Remove an unneeded include.
20101205 19:09:43< CIA-28> mordante * r47830 /trunk/src/ (time_of_day.cpp time_of_day.hpp): Remove an unneeded include.
20101205 19:09:50< CIA-28> mordante * r47831 /trunk/src/about.cpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:09:54< CIA-28> mordante * r47832 /trunk/src/actions.cpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:09:59< CIA-28> mordante * r47833 /trunk/src/arrow.hpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:10:02< CIA-28> mordante * r47834 /trunk/src/attack_prediction_display.hpp: Remove an unneeded include.
20101205 19:10:03< CIA-28> mordante * r47835 /trunk/src/builder.cpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:10:08< CIA-28> mordante * r47836 /trunk/src/cursor.cpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:10:09< shadowmaster> *gargle*
20101205 19:10:09< CIA-28> mordante * r47837 /trunk/src/construct_dialog.cpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:10:10< CIA-28> mordante * r47838 /trunk/src/color_range.cpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:10:14< CIA-28> mordante * r47839 /trunk/src/terrain.hpp: Remove an unneeded include.
20101205 19:10:16< CIA-28> mordante * r47840 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:10:45< CIA-28> mordante * r47841 /trunk/src/team.cpp: Remove unneeded includes.
20101205 19:11:23< CIA-28> mordante * r47842 /trunk/src/display.cpp: Remove unneeded includes.
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20101205 19:16:09< iwontbecreative> Now I understand why they are so much revs :D
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20101205 19:26:02< shadowmaster> so, I'm trying to build Wesnoth on a Debian testing VM.
20101205 19:26:35< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: does this mean my scons is broken? http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/E9UDB4EJ
20101205 19:27:31< shadowmaster> (it's particularly odd since I've been using sid for months already and never ran into that)
20101205 19:27:32< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: Probably yes. I've never got anything like that myself.
20101205 19:27:45< loonycyborg> Maybe even your python is broken :P
20101205 19:29:06< shadowmaster> I guess I'll stick to autofoo
20101205 19:29:26< shadowmaster> or update this testing copy. hm.
20101205 19:29:40< CIA-28> mordante * r47843 /trunk/src/time_of_day.hpp: Add a needed header.
20101205 19:30:18< shadowmaster> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
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20101205 19:30:38< shadowmaster> ehh, I'll just assume VirtualBox is screwing up somewhere and declare this VM as abandoned.
20101205 19:30:47< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: Google suggests that it's a stale pyc file somewhere.
20101205 19:31:15< shadowmaster> uh, there's an apt-get update process running in the background.
20101205 19:31:32< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: well, that's what I get for using a weekly jigdo-file DVD image :p
20101205 19:32:06-!- Gambit is now known as Gambit^testing
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20101205 19:35:46< CIA-28> silene * r47844 /trunk/src/multiplayer_lobby.hpp: Added missing include.
20101205 19:39:55< Ivanovic> boucman, crab_, fendrin: if you have not gotten your gsoc t-shirt yet (and you want one) you should mail carols about it, include your full name as well as the coutry it should be sent to in the mail, afterwards it might take one or two weeks, but then you should even get a fedex tracking number
20101205 19:40:40< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: do you ship the configure script with released versions anymore?
20101205 19:40:44< loonycyborg> Most commits seem to be along the lines of 'remove unneeded include/add missing include' :P
20101205 19:41:06< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: They are svn snapshots now afaik
20101205 19:41:07< Ivanovic> i sent my question regarding the status of the shirt on november 24th and got a mail with an explaination (they had some problems with importing stuff from melange) and a tracking number for the shirt to be sent on monday
20101205 19:41:16< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: i ship a plain "svn export"
20101205 19:41:23< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: okay, that means no
20101205 19:41:37< Ivanovic> you have to create the configure script using ./autogen.sh
20101205 19:41:45< shadowmaster> I know ;)
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20101205 19:54:08< shadowmaster> ohhh, gdm has shiny nowadays
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20101205 20:00:22< shadowmaster> okay, how odd. There's  no  python upgrades for that installation yet http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/nRB95ezU
20101205 20:00:41< shadowmaster> and Sid's pyython/scons environment has never broken for me lately
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20101205 20:09:11< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: You just need to find that broken pyc file and remove it.
20101205 20:09:17< bouncy93> Hi. I need some help for google code-in.
20101205 20:09:29< bouncy93> Is there any mentor?
20101205 20:10:04< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: I won't bother with that ;)
20101205 20:10:55< Soliton> bouncy93: you'll get your answer faster if you just ask.
20101205 20:11:36< bouncy93> I think I am ready with my task and I need somebody to review it.
20101205 20:11:58< Soliton> post a link to your task.
20101205 20:12:09< bouncy93> http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129047233078
20101205 20:12:29< bouncy93> Here :)
20101205 20:14:48-!- negusnyul [~negusnyul@dsl4E5CDB09.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101205 20:15:19< iwontbecreative> Crab is not connected
20101205 20:15:54< iwontbecreative> But he normally reviews quick enough
20101205 20:16:03-!- veg^ [~veg@178.125.213.105] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20101205 20:17:41< bouncy93> My deadline is after 2 hours and I am worried about that.
20101205 20:17:52-!- yann [~dwitch@nan92-1-81-57-214-146.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101205 20:18:16< bouncy93> I hope he will connect before the deadline.
20101205 20:18:26< iwontbecreative> You submitted your work
20101205 20:18:33< iwontbecreative> So there's no deadline, right ?
20101205 20:19:45< bouncy93> Hmm I submitted it but time to complete is still running down 
20101205 20:20:39< bouncy93> Is this normal?
20101205 20:26:53-!- eoc [~eoc@pD95600AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101205 20:31:49< Ivanovic> bouncy93: if you commited something it should be perfectly time
20101205 20:32:19< Soliton> s/time/fine/?
20101205 20:33:41< bouncy93> Ivanovic: what did you mean
20101205 20:33:50< Ivanovic> s/time/fine
20101205 20:33:52< Ivanovic> sorry, typo
20101205 20:34:24< bouncy93> Ookay
20101205 20:35:53< bouncy93> But if I have submitted my work, and it's not reviewed before the deadline what happens?
20101205 20:35:56-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20101205 20:36:14< Ivanovic> nothing at all
20101205 20:36:34< ancestral> Interesting - Pastebin mobile apps, eh…
20101205 20:36:43< bouncy93> Task changes to Reopened?
20101205 20:37:20< Ivanovic> bouncy93: the task is already set to "Needs Review"
20101205 20:37:47< Ivanovic> bouncy93: once it is reviewed you will either get an "okay, done, task closed" or a comment from Crab_ how to get things done as it is supposed to be
20101205 20:37:52< Ivanovic> bouncy93: just relax a little
20101205 20:37:57< CIA-28> grickit * r47845 /trunk/src/network.cpp: Re-added two needed includes.
20101205 20:38:44< bouncy93> Okay. I am going to the toilet then :) 
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20101205 20:40:42< stikonas> Ivanovic: do we have an active Latvian maintainer?
20101205 20:40:58< Ivanovic> latvian is which langcode?
20101205 20:41:21< stikonas> lv
20101205 20:41:22< eoc> lv I assume
20101205 20:41:40< Ivanovic> last update i got was end of may
20101205 20:41:45< Ivanovic> so i'd say "semiactive"
20101205 20:42:04< stikonas> he may be intrested in: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129008602406#c17001
20101205 20:42:14< stikonas> there is one guy who wants to translate into Latvian
20101205 20:42:28< stikonas> but we do not have any tasks for Latvian
20101205 20:42:44-!- rigved [~rigved@116.72.163.243] has quit [Quit: Bye]
20101205 20:43:51< stikonas> Ivanovic: maybe you can invite Latvian maintainer to join GCI?
20101205 20:45:53-!- stikonas [debian-tor@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
20101205 20:46:01< iwontbecreative>  Well, I'm sure they are plenty of guys interessed in translating
20101205 20:48:22-!- alink [~alink@wesnoth/developer/alink] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101205 20:48:48< Ivanovic> iwontbecreative: the problem is that the feedback from our translation maintainers is rather "tiny"
20101205 20:48:59< CIA-28> loonycyborg * r47846 /trunk/src/network.cpp: Fix #include from <> type to "" type.
20101205 20:49:03< iwontbecreative> Even for common languages ?
20101205 20:49:13< Ivanovic> and without them to proofread, we can't really create/accept tasks
20101205 20:49:23< iwontbecreative> Or maybe those don't really need to be GCI
20101205 20:49:51< iwontbecreative> Like German, Spanish, French maintainers are arctive no ?
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20101205 20:50:15< Ivanovic> the german maintainer is busy with "real life", so he does not really have the time to review work
20101205 20:50:24< shadowmaster> PetePorty: are you active? are you even here? (okay, he's not here)
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20101205 20:51:57< Soliton> mordante: what's the idea behind removing global.hpp includes?
20101205 20:52:25< iwontbecreative> Ivanovic: Oh, I tought that for such common languages there would be an active maintainer
20101205 20:53:02< iwontbecreative> German is the fifth O-S language 
20101205 20:53:11< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: Ivanovic? is that you? I thought you were the backup maintainer
20101205 20:53:28< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: the main maintainer is busy with reallife, too
20101205 20:53:33< Ivanovic> (work and the likes)
20101205 20:53:56< Ivanovic> for reviewing some of the work done by a fellow translator he needed some two weeks
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20101205 21:05:37< veg^> guys, i checked out not all repository. only root, src, sconf, cmake, doc directories. when i try to compile with cmake i get that: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/300993/ looks too small and no any Makefile
20101205 21:06:27< Ivanovic> veg^: you usually get this when rerunning it
20101205 21:06:35< veg^> yes
20101205 21:06:38< Ivanovic> veg^: at the first run there should have been more output
20101205 21:06:44< Ivanovic> this is perfectly normal
20101205 21:06:57< Ivanovic> cmake does not do a complete rerun when not really required
20101205 21:07:17< veg^> hm, but no Makefile. how can i clean?
20101205 21:07:43< Ivanovic> huh, that is interesting
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20101205 21:08:20< Ivanovic> veg^: remove this file and the complete folder:
20101205 21:08:29< Ivanovic> CMakeCache.txt and CMakeFiles
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20101205 21:12:39< veg^> hm, now i get Makefile. but it gets error about translations: No rule to make target `po/wesnoth-manual/zh_TW.po', needed by `translations/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES/wesnoth-manual.mo' can i disable it or smth?
20101205 21:13:19< Ivanovic> yeah, you will have to edit the cmake file to remove the po/ folder
20101205 21:13:39< Ivanovic> normally translations are built by the build system which is not possible since you have not downloaded this part
20101205 21:17:40< Ivanovic> veg^: either disable NLS support
20101205 21:18:03< Ivanovic> veg^: or have a look at line 235 in CMakeLists.txt
20101205 21:19:57< veg^> awesome, it works! thanks
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20101205 21:27:33< stikonas> Ivanovic: I have one more question. If somebody finishes the task, should I ask his real name (and nick) to include him or her into credits.
20101205 21:28:02< Ivanovic> stikonas: i'd say: ask the respective person if they want to appear in the credits
20101205 21:28:19< Ivanovic> and how, of course
20101205 21:28:31< Ivanovic> (since it can be real name, nick name, both, whatever)
20101205 21:30:14< ancestral> I loved this post: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32365&start=0
20101205 21:31:34< iwontbecreative> At least he used the search :D
20101205 21:33:28< ancestral> This is true
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20101205 21:51:09< mordante> Soliton, these are included via other headers
20101205 21:52:27< Soliton> what's the problem with that and who's going to realize such dependencies when they change something?
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20101205 22:07:22< esr> mordante: Did you use my deheader tool fore tht huge batch of header removals?
20101205 22:12:44< CIA-28> shadowmaster * r47847 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Set wesnothd and wesnoth client MP username length limit to 20 (was 18)
20101205 22:12:47< shadowmaster> Soliton: ^
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20101205 22:14:38< Soliton> thanks.
20101205 22:15:40< shadowmaster> np
20101205 22:15:47< mordante> esr, no manual evaluation, did you proceed working on that tool?
20101205 22:16:04< CIA-28> shadowmaster * r47848 /trunk/changelog: Changelog entry for r47847
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20101205 22:16:56< Soliton> s/no /no, /
20101205 22:19:01< veg^> compiled wesnoth, but when execute: User message: Widget definition 'progress_bar' doesn't contain the definition for 'default'. what missed?
20101205 22:19:20< shadowmaster> veg^: an up-to-date data/gui dir
20101205 22:19:44< shadowmaster>  it contains only some small WML code so it shouldn't take too long to checkout
20101205 22:20:09< esr> mordante: Yes, it's officially released now.  http://www.catb.org/esr/deheader/ ; just a few days old.  You might want to consider running it to catch anything the manual sweep missed.  But read the man page first, you have to be a little careful applying it to C++.
20101205 22:22:09< shadowmaster> esr, mordante what worries me is that there have been some cases where header removals have broken builds on different systems or different versions of the runtime libraries (libc, libstdc++, etc.)
20101205 22:22:10< mordante> interesting esr guess I'll have to play with it a bit :-)
20101205 22:22:20< shadowmaster> actual cases. here.
20101205 22:22:37< mordante> shadowmaster, you can avoid system headers with a regex :-)
20101205 22:22:48< esr> shadowmaster: It's an issue.  This is not a tool that can be applied blindly.
20101205 22:23:48< Soliton> veg^: you need to tell wesnoth where your data is...
20101205 22:25:06< loonycyborg> esr: "" includes #includes are pretty much guaranteed to be safe if it compiles after you remove them.
20101205 22:25:12< loonycyborg> <> includes not so much.
20101205 22:25:52< loonycyborg> So just don't clean <> includes. That is all.
20101205 22:26:01< mordante> loonycyborg, the program has an -i switch where you can exclude all <> includes
20101205 22:26:29< loonycyborg> Great! :)
20101205 22:26:59-!- silene [~plouf@wesnoth/developer/silene] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20101205 22:27:35< mordante> esr, http://www.catb.org/~esr/deheader/deheader.html "Show version of program snd exit." s/snd/and/
20101205 22:29:25< loonycyborg> That man page has 'strange thungs' in the Bugs section.
20101205 22:30:47< shadowmaster> at least it wasn't an 'o'
20101205 22:30:52< veg^> Soliton: now it wants game-icon.png, where should i place it?
20101205 22:31:36< iwontbecreative1> :P
20101205 22:31:48< Soliton> veg^: you need to tell wesnoth where your data is...
20101205 22:32:13< Ivanovic> veg^: run ./wesnoth --help
20101205 22:32:28< Ivanovic> it will tell you that the first parameter you supply is supposed to be the data directory
20101205 22:33:05< Soliton> there is also --data-dir nowadays.
20101205 22:33:33< mordante> I'm off night
20101205 22:33:47< Soliton> mordante: no response to my question?
20101205 22:33:57< mordante> Soliton, which question?
20101205 22:34:16< veg^> there is output http://paste.pocoo.org/show/301026/
20101205 22:34:37< Soliton> about how anyone's going to realize the indirect includes when he changes something.
20101205 22:35:17< Soliton> and why it helps anything to remove direct dependencies like global.hpp to begin with.
20101205 22:35:42< Ivanovic> veg^: remove the 'data/' at the end
20101205 22:36:09< Ivanovic> veg^: it needs the folder where the fonts/, data/, translations/ and whatnot subdirs originate from
20101205 22:37:36< mordante> Soliton, I like to remove the unneeded include headers so I can look afterwards which classes only need forward declarations
20101205 22:37:46< veg^> Ivanovic: same unknow option, and error when run
20101205 22:37:49< mordante> this doesn't work if headers all include eachother
20101205 22:38:16< Ivanovic> veg^: leave the --data-dir part out
20101205 22:38:24< Ivanovic> it is not required if you only supply the data dir
20101205 22:39:32< Ivanovic> and you are sure that everything is available in "/usr/share/wesnoth/" ?
20101205 22:39:48< Ivanovic> data/ and fonts/ are the two folders that really are required
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20101205 22:40:19< veg^> yes, just can't find game-icon.png =)
20101205 22:40:39< shadowmaster> what version’s data files are you trying to use with 1.9.2?
20101205 22:40:41< veg^> loading, then when 100% quit
20101205 22:41:29< veg^> 1.8.5
20101205 22:41:36< Ivanovic> there is your problem!
20101205 22:41:43< Ivanovic> 1.8.5 data is from april!
20101205 22:42:03< Soliton> anyone understood how removing direct header dependencies helps to figure out which classes only need forward declarations?
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20101205 22:42:28< Ivanovic> (yeah, 1.8.5 only received bugfixes, not the syntactical changes, that the trunk sourcecode needs/expects!)
20101205 22:43:07< shadowm_laptop> the particular problem may come from the changes to the titlescreen resources
20101205 22:44:02< Ivanovic> shadowm_laptop: since it is a 1.9.2+svn build all the gui2 stuff added/changed is relevant, a whole lot more than just the titlescreen, i'd guess
20101205 22:44:15< shadowm_laptop> "particular" ;)
20101205 22:45:03< Ivanovic> pah!
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20101205 22:49:21< esr> shadowm_laptop:  I'm adding thius to the deheader docs:
20101205 22:49:32< esr> Due to minor variations in system headers, it is possible your
20101205 22:49:34< esr> program may not port correctly to other Unix variants after being
20101205 22:49:36< esr> deheadered. This is normally not a problem with the portion of the API
20101205 22:49:39< esr> specified by POSIX and ANSI C, but may be for headers that are not
20101205 22:49:40< esr> stndardized or only weakly standardized.  The sockets API (sys/select.h,
20101205 22:49:42< esr> sys/sockets.h, and friends such as sys/types.h and sys.stat.h) is
20101205 22:49:43< esr> perhaps the most serioous trouble spot.
20101205 22:49:56< esr> Can you think of other trouble spots I should add?
20101205 22:50:26< shadowmaster> not really, you probably know the system libraries' historical issues better than me ;)
20101205 22:50:38< esr> Alas, it is so.
20101205 22:50:42< loonycyborg> esr: IMO the most problematic spot is C++ headers such as <vector> which can or can not include other headers depending on what compiler/version is used.
20101205 22:51:13< Ivanovic> AI0867, alink, boucman, crimson_penguin, Espreon, esr, fendrin, loonycyborg, Rhonda, shadowmaster, Soliton, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: i had some strange idea, what do you think about *not* releasing a 1.10 in march/april 2011?
20101205 22:51:33< boucman> Ivanovic: do you want to release it earlier or later ?
20101205 22:51:36 * crimson_penguin is confused
20101205 22:51:40< Ivanovic> personally i feel as if there were not this many great and "changing everything" changes so far
20101205 22:51:48< Ivanovic> so yeah, i'd say "by far later"
20101205 22:51:52< esr> loonycyborg: Do you think that case needs language not presently in http://www.catb.org/~esr/deheader/deheader.html ?
20101205 22:51:54< boucman> hmm
20101205 22:52:08< crimson_penguin> fine with me
20101205 22:52:36< boucman> Ivanovic: i'll need to think about it, I always have that nagging feeling the game is dying if we don't release stuff...
20101205 22:52:41< Ivanovic> so far we neither have a new race in, nor is the new lobby really done, nor "no idea what"
20101205 22:52:47< loonycyborg> esr: I think it should mention that system header cleanups are unsafe for multiplatform apps.
20101205 22:52:49< stikonas> hmm, I can't submit a new GCI task...
20101205 22:53:15< Ivanovic> personally i'd prefer to stay in "open for features" time at least at fosdem so that some huge changes can eg be worked on at that time
20101205 22:53:19< esr> I'm gnerally in favor of more frequent releases rather than fewer.  But I haven't been very active lately, so possibly my opinion shouldn't count for much.
20101205 22:53:33< Ivanovic> i'd love to get 1.10 (or maybe even 2.0 by then) out for christmas 2011
20101205 22:53:39< Ivanovic> possibly with opengl and whatnot
20101205 22:54:08< boucman> Ivanovic: maybe post these thought to w-devel
20101205 22:54:08< Ivanovic> esr: personally i have the impression that there was not too much activity lately
20101205 22:54:19< Ivanovic> boucman: wanted to ask it in here first
20101205 22:54:20< esr> Hm, I think opengl would quite justify a major version bump.
20101205 22:54:30< fendrin> Ivanovic: And with a full set if images hopefully. I think about a fitting set of them.
20101205 22:54:57< Ivanovic> esr: one problem with opengl is that it clearly will not be ready on stable in march
20101205 22:55:00< Soliton> Ivanovic: for my part, if we get the lobby issues sorted out and maybe ANA working properly that'd be good enough for a new release (together with all the other changes).
20101205 22:55:10< fendrin> Ivanovic: Meaning all units that are visible from different times removed for example.
20101205 22:55:30< esr> Ivanovic: Agreed, but Christmas 2011 seems like a reasonable target date.
20101205 22:55:32< Ivanovic> Soliton: uhm, i don't see this happening too soon (sadly!)
20101205 22:56:15< Soliton> Ivanovic: me neither but i don't think it's very useful to speculate further.
20101205 22:56:53< esr> I wisg I could help more with OpenGL because I'm really feeling like SDL has become confining and a source of problems.  But I don't have the right kind of expertise.
20101205 22:57:16< Soliton> the problem right now as i see it is that we don't have people working on tying up some loose ends of major new features we have (mostly from gsoc).
20101205 22:58:00< Ivanovic> some things i see at the moment:
20101205 22:58:07< boucman> i'll try to ping gabba if/when I see him but i'm not optimistic...
20101205 22:58:47< Ivanovic> 1) if we participate in gsoc 2011 we can most likely not go for releasing in the summer, so it is either ready by march, or in november, once gsoc is over and features got some polishing
20101205 22:59:15< Ivanovic> 2) we need some basic freeze for ruling out bugs before releasing the stable series, i'd say at least 6 weeks
20101205 22:59:44< Ivanovic> (the more, the better, possibly freezing the campaigns earlier, so that translators can get the largest potion done)
20101205 23:00:07< Ivanovic> 3) personally i think that there are not as many new features so far to really warrant a new stable series
20101205 23:00:22< Ivanovic> the main changes so far are that we got by far more animations and a new campaign
20101205 23:00:33< elias> esr: i tried deheader on another project... where would be a place to send feature requests? :)
20101205 23:00:40< fendrin> Ivanovic: I must disagree there. The terrain graphic overhaul alone is worth a release.
20101205 23:00:49< esr> elias: esr@thyrsus.com
20101205 23:01:02< Ivanovic> fendrin: yeah, the terrain overhaul is a *huge* amount
20101205 23:01:17< fendrin> Ivanovic: And a greatly visible to the player.
20101205 23:01:23< Ivanovic> fendrin: correct
20101205 23:01:43< Ivanovic> but somehow i fear that we are not in the state of realeasing "stable" right now and not close to getting there, soon either
20101205 23:01:47< Soliton> whiteboard, ANA, new terrain, persistent variables, (new lobby finally usable?)
20101205 23:01:55< Soliton> quite some new features.
20101205 23:02:07< Ivanovic> where ANA and new lobby are not really working perfectly (yet)
20101205 23:02:12< Soliton> if only they were all polished and usable...
20101205 23:02:57< Soliton> so i don't think it's a great plan to encourage yet more major new features but concentrate on getting those we have polished.
20101205 23:03:24< Soliton> not that i'm particularly against new features at this time.
20101205 23:05:47< Soliton> the problem is that we don't have (enough) people that want to/have the time polish stuff.
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20101205 23:09:52< Soliton> the danger i see is that we won't get much polishing done before the next gsoc which will as usual bring mostly new stuff and tie up our active people in mentor work and next year things will only look worse.
20101205 23:10:25< Ivanovic> honestly i am not 100% sure if we should try to get into the next gsoc or not
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20101205 23:13:02< fendrin> Ivanovic: Hmm, I thought about mentoring another gsoc project to finish the eclipse plugin or polish it more. 
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20101205 23:13:39< fendrin> Ivanovic: So at least for the eclipse plugin another run would mean more completeness than introducing more unfinished parts.
20101205 23:15:04< Soliton> if we do polishing projects like that that'd be great and alleviate my concerns.
20101205 23:15:39< Ivanovic> fendrin: what about adding (smaller) polishing tasks for the eclipse plugin as gci tasks?
20101205 23:28:57-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 187 bugs, 302 feature requests, 22 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20101205 23:29:17< stikonas> Ivanovic: do you know how do I delete the tasks from GCI?
20101205 23:29:27< Ivanovic> stikonas: no
20101205 23:29:36< stikonas> something wrong has happened, and it show about 10 tasks instead of one
20101205 23:30:03< stikonas> and delete button does not work :(
20101205 23:32:03< Ivanovic> stikonas: your task is not published yet, you should still be able to edit them
20101205 23:32:49< Ivanovic> that is: if you want me to i could try to delete the wront tasks, just give me the links to the unwanted ones
20101205 23:32:58< stikonas> Ivanovic: indeed, but when I press Delete, the window with 2 buttons shows up and I can only press Cancel
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20101205 23:33:28< stikonas> Ivanovic: basically all of them except the last one
20101205 23:33:40< stikonas> http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/suggest_task/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129158574564
20101205 23:33:49< stikonas> can you try this one?
20101205 23:34:21< Ivanovic> i get a "confirm deletion" box, there hitting "okay" deletes the task
20101205 23:34:30< Ivanovic> seems to have worked for the one you just gave me the link to
20101205 23:34:42< stikonas> I tried this one 3 different browsers...
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20101205 23:35:51< Ivanovic> this is the one you want to keep`
20101205 23:35:55< Ivanovic> http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/edit/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129158779448
20101205 23:36:03< Ivanovic> do you want it to directly be published?
20101205 23:36:35< stikonas> Ivanovic: when I press the link: You do not have the required role.
20101205 23:36:51< stikonas> but yeah, this one
20101205 23:36:55< Ivanovic> talking about the last one where difficulty is set and stuff like this
20101205 23:37:13< stikonas> yes, this one can be published
20101205 23:37:15< Ivanovic> okay, published it
20101205 23:37:24< Ivanovic> will delete the other ones now
20101205 23:38:54< Ivanovic> stikonas: done
20101205 23:39:07< Ivanovic> please check that the published task is correct and that i only removed the correct entries
20101205 23:39:30< Ivanovic> if you want to "mass add" tasks, talk to crab_ (maybe boucman also knows how to add >1 task in one go)
20101205 23:40:05< boucman> to add task in mass, send me a csv in the following format
20101205 23:40:34< boucman> http://wesnoth.pastebin.com/iJqj5cqZ
20101205 23:40:37< stikonas> Ivanovic: it seems everything is OK now. This mass add was some bug in melange
20101205 23:40:57< Ivanovic> yeah, those bugs happen every now and then
20101205 23:42:44< iwontbecreative1> Good night :)
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20101205 23:51:26< AI0867> Ivanovic: how much time do you think I should assign to GCI translation tasks? Any guidelines?
20101205 23:51:45< Ivanovic> AI0867: take the tasks by stikonas as rough guideline
20101205 23:55:52< AI0867> k
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--- Log closed Mon Dec 06 00:00:39 2010