--- Log opened Mon Dec 06 00:00:39 2010
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20101206 00:35:48< Espreon> ... and it would appear that random has not been removed yet.
20101206 00:38:56< CIA-28> espreon * r47849 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Converted two occurrences of random.
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20101206 00:45:19< CIA-28> espreon * r47850 /trunk/data/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Converted remaining instances of 'add -'.
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20101206 00:56:45< CIA-28> espreon * r47851 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Converted the remaining instances of 'add -' for real... hopefully.
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20101206 05:28:57-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 189 bugs, 303 feature requests, 22 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20101206 08:01:11< Rhonda> Ivanovic: I wouldn't release 1.10 without the new lobby working, right. I'm more a Debian person than a Ubuntu person, so "release when it's ready" instead of release when the time has come is the more convenient approach for me. :)
20101206 08:01:39< Rhonda> Ivanovic: And march/april was always too close to the Ubuntu release schedule anyway. :P
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20101206 10:03:52< Ivanovic> moin
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20101206 18:22:29< laurion> hi i'm participating at the Google Code-In contest and I claimed the task to playtest your game on TRoW campaign challenging difficulty
20101206 18:22:49< laurion> i finished my work and i found some bugs
20101206 18:23:03< laurion> so where do i submit my work?
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20101206 18:29:13< zookeeper> laurion, at http://gna.org/bugs/?group=wesnoth
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20101206 18:31:43< zookeeper> laurion, however, only bugs should go there: if you have suggestions or feedback on difficulty and so on, you should...well, actually i'm not sure. i guess you should post them in the mainline campaign feedback forum.
20101206 18:32:35< zookeeper> also if you're not sure if what you've found is a bug or not, you can describe it here first and i'll tell if you should submit it as a bug or not
20101206 18:32:54< Ivanovic> zookeeper: the people playing through the campaigns are meant to place the suggestions in a wiki page
20101206 18:33:43< zookeeper> right, then that's what you should do ;)
20101206 18:33:47< Ivanovic> another option would probably be leaving feedback in the campaign threads
20101206 18:34:11< Ivanovic> but IIRC the task itself includes a link to a "please fill me with content"-wikipage
20101206 18:34:19< Ivanovic> (okay, real bugs do of course belong into the tracker!)
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20101206 19:48:11< iwontbecreative> Oh nice, Kyle finished porting wesnoth to Palm Pre :)
20101206 19:49:31< ancestral> Hopefully that's not also in violation of the GPL…
20101206 19:49:39< shadowmaster> ahem.
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20101206 19:58:35< fendrin> Poor GPL, so much violence around her.
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20101206 20:00:05< fendrin> Hello shadowmaster, did boucman reach you for talking about the google thing?
20101206 20:00:24< boucman> fendrin: what was it already ? :P
20101206 20:01:16< iwontbecreative> Wow, weird bug...
20101206 20:01:19< fendrin> boucman: It was about hiring a google student to polish abandoned high quality campaigns made by shadowmaster like IftU for example.
20101206 20:01:32< boucman> oh, right
20101206 20:02:02< fendrin> boucman: I could even think about tasks that could lead to IftU being mainlined.
20101206 20:02:03< iwontbecreative> Is the server meant to disallow number only nicks ?
20101206 20:02:26< boucman> iwontbecreative: not sure, but that's possible
20101206 20:02:42< iwontbecreative> I don't think, it works with short nicks
20101206 20:02:49< iwontbecreative>  Bugs with big numbers
20101206 20:04:02< iwontbecreative> Like 01234567890123456789 Will be converted to 1.23457e+18 and will bug
20101206 20:04:18< iwontbecreative> Because "+" is not allowed
20101206 20:06:18< Gambit> Wait... iwontbecreative: you seriously tried that, or it's hypothetical?
20101206 20:06:34< Soliton> report a bug and assign to silene.
20101206 20:06:48< Soliton> probably another WML internal conversion issue.
20101206 20:06:54< iwontbecreative> I tried that because I wanted to test if I could have 20 caracters nich with the new rev
20101206 20:07:06< iwontbecreative> *nick
20101206 20:07:34< Soliton> official trunk server hasn't been restarted yet, so you need to test with your own server.
20101206 20:07:34< iwontbecreative> and that was an easy way to count 20 char
20101206 20:07:48< iwontbecreative> Oh
20101206 20:07:54< iwontbecreative> Won't test it then :D
20101206 20:08:19< iwontbecreative> Unless it's really easy to setup, but I don't think so...
20101206 20:08:42< Gambit> ./wesnothd
20101206 20:08:46< Soliton> well, official server got restarted now. :-)
20101206 20:09:49< iwontbecreative> Gambit: I knew the command but I tought you would have to setup many things :P
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20101206 20:10:03< Gambit> haha it does indeed bug
20101206 20:10:19< Gambit> "The nick '1.23457e+18' contains invalid characters."
20101206 20:10:51< Soliton> passwords beginning with a number are also an issue.
20101206 20:11:24< Gambit> Hmmm it changed 20 nines in a row to "-1"
20101206 20:11:49< iwontbecreative> Gambit: yep, me too
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20101206 20:18:54< iwontbecreative> Oh, some other bugs with nicks
20101206 20:19:07< iwontbecreative> Like 12e5 will bug
20101206 20:19:42< iwontbecreative> Will give the "scientific" notation
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20101206 20:24:04< Soliton> all the same bug.
20101206 20:24:36< Soliton> you can probably use hex or octal notation as well.
20101206 20:24:41< iwontbecreative> Yep, wml numbers notation
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20101206 20:47:21< iwontbecreative> Soliton: So i must report a bug or silene will read the log and take a look at this bug ?
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20101206 20:56:34< Soliton> iwontbecreative: better to report.
20101206 20:57:20< Soliton> iwontbecreative: i think there is already a report about the same issue with passwords so you could also just add a comment there.
20101206 20:57:45< iwontbecreative> Soliton: Ok, I'll eat and then I'll do it
20101206 20:58:02< Soliton> thanks.
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20101206 21:21:49< iwontbecreative> Soliton: Hmm, there is actually some kind of bigger problem since the server calculates values.
20101206 21:22:11< iwontbecreative> like login with 5e1, your username will be 50
20101206 21:22:40< iwontbecreative> With very big numbers it could slow down the server and maybe even worse ?
20101206 21:24:31< iwontbecreative> Nvm, the server doesn't need to calculate anything, it just converts from one notation to another
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20101206 21:47:43< fendrin> zookeeper: Do you maintain did?
20101206 21:48:02< zookeeper> fendrin, yes
20101206 21:48:57< fendrin> Please explain to my why the hero can only recruit walking corpses in scenario one.
20101206 21:49:20< iwontbecreative> Because the hero is a noob at start
20101206 21:49:59< Ivanovic> fendrin: because they are the easiest thing to raise from the earth as a "really new" necromancer
20101206 21:50:15< fendrin> Well, the story supports that.
20101206 21:50:30< fendrin> But why is he not able to recruit humans as well?
20101206 21:50:31< Ivanovic> skelletons, ghosts and other things require a whole lot more knowledge and power
20101206 21:50:37< fendrin> He seems to be allied with them.
20101206 21:50:42< Ivanovic> because he has no army of his own
20101206 21:50:47< Ivanovic> he is no commander of armies
20101206 21:50:50< iwontbecreative> He's out of the city at start
20101206 21:51:08< boucman> he's not a military/noble maybe ?
20101206 21:51:10< Ivanovic> where should the troops come from, pop out of thin air?
20101206 21:51:52< zookeeper> fendrin, uh..
20101206 21:52:23< zookeeper> he doesn't have any humans to recruit in that little encampment?
20101206 21:53:38< fendrin> Okay. I was confused by him having that much loyal humans with him. 
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20101206 21:53:58< Ivanovic> humans with him?
20101206 21:54:00< Ivanovic> where?
20101206 21:54:01< Ivanovic> when?
20101206 21:54:09< fendrin> In the keep
20101206 21:54:15< fendrin> 3 loyals at level start.
20101206 21:54:18< fendrin> all human
20101206 21:54:23< Ivanovic> those are humans living at this area, just like he is
20101206 21:54:32< Ivanovic> though they were not aware that he is an evil necromancer
20101206 21:56:02< fendrin> But they seem to stay with me. 
20101206 21:56:41< fendrin> or did I bypass the removal of them?
20101206 21:58:05< iwontbecreative> They don't stay
20101206 21:58:18< iwontbecreative> Playtested the campaign recently
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20101206 22:16:52< iwontbecreative> Tough in debug they stay with you
20101206 22:17:54< Soliton> because you do not properly end the scenario as intended. not sure if that can be helped.
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20101206 22:19:24< iwontbecreative> Can't you remove some units from recall list at the start of a scenario ?
20101206 22:19:27< Ivanovic> Soliton: maybe by moving the removal from the end of scenario 1 to the beginning of scenario 2?
20101206 22:20:25< Soliton> a bit ugly but indeed that should work.
20101206 22:20:45< Soliton> are there still two second scenarios?
20101206 22:20:59< ZumZoom> Is smb here, who can consult me about gci tasks?
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20101206 22:21:35< eoc> isn't there any way units can be created that don't go to your recall list? such as editing their side or hacky stuff like that?
20101206 22:21:37< Soliton> looks like only one second scenario so not even that ugly.
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20101206 22:22:31< Soliton> ZumZoom: if you ask an actual question maybe someone can help you.
20101206 22:23:21< Soliton> eoc: they wouldn't really be your units then.
20101206 22:23:46< eoc> at scenario end
20101206 22:23:56< eoc> where it would not really matter
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20101206 22:24:35< eoc> just would make more sense imho if they decided to stay with the ppl in town instead of plain removal
20101206 22:25:15< Soliton> we could switch them to side 2 instead of [kill], yeah.
20101206 22:25:15< Ivanovic> eoc: the problem is that those events would never be reached using debugging (:n) for reaching the next scenarios
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20101206 22:25:51< eoc> okay that's a problem indeed. nevermind then
20101206 22:25:54< ZumZoom> Hm... I want to ask about the probability of appearance of new translation tasks in GCI. While I was playing 1.9.2 huge amount of text and dialogs wasn't translated... So this is the question) Will the translation tasks appear in future?
20101206 22:26:25< Soliton> what language do you want to translate to?
20101206 22:26:26< Ivanovic> ZumZoom: it depends completely on the translation teams
20101206 22:26:35< Ivanovic> ZumZoom: the feedback from them is not too large
20101206 22:26:52< Ivanovic> if you are interested in working on a specific translation as part of gci you should try to contact the maintainer of it
20101206 22:27:10< Ivanovic> asking them to join GCI as mentor and creating tasks that you can solve
20101206 22:27:37< Ivanovic> (all translation maintainers should be aware of GCI since i sent some mails about it to the i18n list)
20101206 22:28:45< ZumZoom> m... i'm interested in Russian translation, so may you give me ID of someone from the team?
20101206 22:31:01< Ivanovic> his email address is listed in the wiki: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothTranslations
20101206 22:31:49< ZumZoom> thanks)
20101206 22:37:35-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101206 22:37:55< Crab_> hi, Grimling
20101206 22:39:36< Grimling> Crab_:  hi
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20101206 22:45:37< Grimling> Crab_: About the AI, I've thought a bit about it (not very much, because exams are coming :( ), but I haven't found much things that could be interesting. I don't know if the maps are large enough to make an algorithm to defend specific regions?
20101206 22:47:20< Ivanovic> Espreon: in case you have not seen it yet: someone claimed the ingame manual style guide stuff
20101206 22:47:24< Crab_> Grimling: one or two years ago, someone played with concept of 'kill maps', mapping the places where units were killed, according to stats
20101206 22:47:25< Ivanovic> http://socghop.appspot.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129063636532
20101206 22:48:24< Crab_> Grimling: and it showed that, really, most parts of the map are relatively ignored
20101206 22:48:38< Crab_> Grimling: but, it's not the only possible way to develop your algorithm further
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20101206 22:48:54< Crab_> Grimling: we can also try to handle the attack-vs-defend issue pointed out by Soliton
20101206 22:50:49< Espreon> Ivanovic: Thanks.
20101206 22:51:50< iwontbecreative> Crab_ : Could you please validate/unvalidate http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129047233174#c12001 so I can work on it ?
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20101206 22:52:19< Crab_> iwontbecreative:done, accepted
20101206 22:52:40< iwontbecreative> Thanks
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20101206 23:28:25< iwontbecreative> I'm off for tonight, good bye
20101206 23:28:57-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 193 bugs, 304 feature requests, 23 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20101206 23:37:20< Grimling> Crab_: for the new AI, on what domains can there be improvement? only recruiting or also other elements?
20101206 23:43:30< boucman> handling abilities (healing, leadership maybe)
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20101206 23:50:10< Crab_> well, recruiting is the area where improvements can still be made. there are other possible and known improvements but they are more difficult to do 
20101206 23:50:49< Crab_> handling leadership and healing properly requires knowing a lot more about the way current AI works
20101206 23:51:04< Crab_> but, a nice thing to have is the following trick :
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20101206 23:51:42< Crab_> in current combat phase, attack rating is taken from hardcoded c++ function
20101206 23:52:21< Crab_> it would be really nice to have this pluggable, to allow to tune all the things which go into attack rating
20101206 23:53:02< Grimling> Crab_: ok
20101206 23:53:39< Crab_> if done, it would allow us to test different ways of doing the attack sequence
20101206 23:53:59< Crab_> but it might be too hard to implement, it's a not-so-small refactoring of wesnoth's source code
20101206 23:54:03< Grimling> Crab_: with parameters as the quality/quantity? or written in a script language?
20101206 23:54:22< Crab_> with the ability to plug-in a different c++ function instead of current one
20101206 23:54:54< Crab_> actually, wait a minute, I'll find an easier one
20101206 23:56:21< Ivanovic> Crab_: just got a ping from carols that you seem to be lagging behind at reviewing tasks that should be done (from the students side)
20101206 23:57:06< Ivanovic> cf http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/wesnoth/t129047233646
20101206 23:58:09< Crab_> reviewing the tasks at the moment
20101206 23:58:36< Crab_> Grimling: ok, here's one small thing :
20101206 23:58:48< Crab_> Grimling: open up Heir to the throne scenario 1 at any difficulty
20101206 23:59:30< Crab_> without recruiting anything, move Konrad closer to the western keep (say, to [ 5,22 ] )
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 07 00:00:15 2010