--- Log opened Tue Dec 28 00:00:12 2010
--- Day changed Tue Dec 28 2010
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20101228 01:11:03< `anthony> wesbot seen Crab_
20101228 01:11:04< wesbot> `anthony: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 21h 56m ago.  20h 5m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20101228 01:12:54< Espreon> `anthony: Just leave him a message.
20101228 01:13:43< `anthony> i left him a message earlier...wanted to see if he came
20101228 01:15:28< `anthony> btw what happens if a user doesn't register as a student?
20101228 01:15:34< `anthony> the task is reopened?
20101228 01:15:43< `anthony> probably not
20101228 01:15:50< `anthony> :))
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20101228 02:38:03< CIA-84> anonymissimus * r48104 /trunk/data/lua/wml-tags.lua: 
20101228 02:38:03< CIA-84> made modify_unit handle the case type="" (old behavior of ADVANCE_UNIT macro - advancing to the units' advances_to= when no target type given)
20101228 02:38:03< CIA-84> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=32555&p=471573#p471573
20101228 03:01:37< CIA-84> anonymissimus * r48105 /trunk/data/lua/wml-tags.lua: better code logic for previous commit
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20101228 04:43:29< variable> I think I hit another bug in wesnoth - this time now poolalloc 
20101228 04:43:30< variable> http://pastebin.com/7nUzypnw
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20101228 05:26:21< shadowm_laptop> variable: I take it you meant "not" rather than "now"?
20101228 05:31:40< variable> shadowm_laptop, oh woops - yes :-)
20101228 05:33:13< variable> shadowm_laptop, any ideas though
20101228 05:38:51< shadowm_laptop> not really
20101228 05:38:59< shadowm_laptop> (partly because I don't know how you got there)
20101228 05:42:34< variable> shadowm_laptop, I ran "wesnoth"
20101228 05:42:37< variable> it coredumped
20101228 05:42:46< variable> I ran gdb wesnoth wesnoth.core
20101228 05:42:52< variable> and then typed "bt"
20101228 05:43:39< shadowm_laptop> you mean you simply ran wesnoth and it crashed immediately?
20101228 05:45:10< variable> shadowm_laptop, it got to "Reading Files and creating cache"
20101228 05:45:16< variable> Checking video mode: 1024x768x32...
20101228 05:45:17< variable> setting mode to 1024x768x32
20101228 05:45:17< variable> zsh: segmentation fault (core dumped)  wesnoth
20101228 05:47:13< variable> shadowm_laptop, maybe 60% of the way - but its hard to tell
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20101228 05:49:39 * variable dislikes random coredumps
20101228 05:50:15< shadowm_laptop> given that 17 frames are not in wesnoth's code and most of them appear to originate from Boost.iostreams code I'd suspect of the latter library.
20101228 05:52:49< variable> shadowm_laptop, given that boost is written by insanely smart people and is used by lots of projects I'd suspect the problem is a misuse of boost by wesnoth - but I havn't looked at the source yet to confirm 
20101228 05:55:11< shadowm_laptop> given that Linux and Windows are written by an overwhelming amount of smart people (one with dedication, the other with money), well...
20101228 05:55:29< shadowm_laptop> you probably get it at this point ;)
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20101228 05:55:42< variable> shadowm_laptop, yeah :-)    then again Linux is a hack 
20101228 05:55:57< variable> shadowm_laptop, any ideas on what to do to confirm ?
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20101228 05:59:46< shadowm_laptop> Not really, but if your system distribution provides different Boost versions I'd try switching to see what happens.
20101228 06:00:21< variable> boost-libs-1.45.0
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20101228 09:45:09< timotei> Ivanovic: IDK if I am amble to mentor translations
20101228 09:45:14< timotei> able*
20101228 09:45:32< timotei> it takes pretty much time to review them, to be correct, and I don't have so much time for this
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20101228 10:49:04< Ivanovic> moin
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20101228 10:50:08< Ivanovic> timotei: yeah, what i basically meant is that you are the only option and person that we got that could be asked (though there is no requirement to review everything, some good look if stuff makes some sense would be fine already)
20101228 10:50:40< Ivanovic> and yeah, the available time is the ultimate limit
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20101228 11:46:08< Ivanovic> fabi: regarding the race specific encylopedia entries, please do put them into data/core/encyclopedia
20101228 11:46:27< Ivanovic> inside the units/races subdirs they are too easy to miss and they are not required for the units themselves
20101228 11:52:46< CIA-84> ivanovic * r48106 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-manual/gl.po): updated Galician translation
20101228 11:55:17< CIA-84> silene * r48107 /trunk/src/multiplayer_connect.cpp: Avoided waiting for faction/leader/gender changes when no such changes are available to network players. (Fix for bug #16328.)
20101228 12:14:51< CIA-84> silene * r48108 /trunk/src/replay_controller.cpp: Disabled replay reset during player turns. (Fix for bug #17322.)
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20101228 12:31:14< CIA-84> ivanovic * r48109 /trunk/utils/po2po: 
20101228 12:31:14< CIA-84> fix po2po to be independent of autotools/makefiles
20101228 12:31:14< CIA-84> add some comments and change output of the tools
20101228 12:31:50< CIA-84> ivanovic * r48110 /trunk/data/core/units.cfg: moved the race descriptions into the help textdomain
20101228 12:35:19< CIA-84> ivanovic * r48111 /trunk/po/ (182 files in 25 dirs): 
20101228 12:35:19< CIA-84> pot-update
20101228 12:35:19< CIA-84> TODO: run po2po to move race strings to wesnoth-help
20101228 12:38:25< CIA-84> ivanovic * r48112 /trunk/po/wesnoth-help/ (44 files): ran po2po from wesnoth to wesnoth-help
20101228 12:45:27< Ivanovic> @everyone: what do you think, should the tips of the day be part of wesnoth-help or part of wesnoth textdomain?
20101228 12:46:26< Espreon> I think they should go in wesnoth-help.
20101228 12:48:10< Cookiee> wesnoth had tips?
20101228 12:49:27< Espreon> Cookiee: Yeah, they're on the titlescreen.
20101228 12:49:37< Cookiee> the intro?
20101228 12:49:42< Cookiee> those boxes?
20101228 12:49:48< Espreon> Yeah.
20101228 12:49:49< Cookiee> ah sorry. I dont think anyone reads them 
20101228 12:49:51 * Cookiee chuckles
20101228 12:49:55< Espreon> Heh...
20101228 12:50:02 * Cookiee taddles away as fast as possible
20101228 12:50:07< CIA-84> ivanovic * r48113 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/abilities.cfg: move the ability dscriptions in utbs from the main domain to wesnoth-help, too (those are most likely a copy of those anyway...)
20101228 12:50:11< CIA-84> ivanovic * r48114 /trunk/po/ (129 files in 25 dirs): another pot-update after the moving around of textdomains
20101228 12:50:31< Cookiee> but i think they should stay where they are ^^
20101228 12:53:04< Ivanovic> Espreon, zookeeper: can you look into making the duplicates of strings in utbs (especially in utils/abilities.cfg as well as scenarios/03_Stirring_in_the_Night.cfg) into some kind of macro so that the stuff is adjusted when strings change in code?
20101228 12:53:07< Ivanovic> s/code/core
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20101228 12:57:33< Espreon> Ivanovic: What exactly do you want? Something like IftU's mainline-strings.cfg?
20101228 12:58:34< Ivanovic> Espreon: the problem is that those description texts are copy&pasted 1:1
20101228 12:58:37< CIA-84> ivanovic * r48115 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
20101228 12:58:37< CIA-84> two more moves of campaign specific strings that now go into the -help domain
20101228 12:58:37< CIA-84> @campaign maintainers: when using strings that are copies from code, please
20101228 12:58:37< CIA-84> consider making things in a way that *exactly* those strings that are defined
20101228 12:58:37< CIA-84> somewhere else are reused (by eg providing some macro for the usage in mainline
20101228 12:58:37< CIA-84> so that eg a "add berserk to weapon" action (with the description) is provided
20101228 12:58:38< CIA-84> by mainline instead of the campaign)
20101228 12:58:40< Ivanovic> what if we slightly adjust logics?
20101228 12:58:50< Ivanovic> or just fix some typo?
20101228 12:59:07< Ivanovic> cf the last commit message, it should make more clear what i mean
20101228 12:59:32< Ivanovic> in general those things you do in the campaign look like they could be useful as "general macro" that is provided by mainline
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20101228 13:01:24< Cookiee> Ivanovic: On a serious note. You should leave it there. Beginners and newbs will not know how to get them and they need it the most 
20101228 13:01:37< Espreon> Cookiee: ... What?
20101228 13:01:53 * Cookiee chuckles :L
20101228 13:01:53< Ivanovic> Cookiee: i am only talking about a change that is relevant for translators
20101228 13:01:57< Espreon> We're talking about moving them to a different textdomain. This has no relevance to players.
20101228 13:02:04< Cookiee> o.O 
20101228 13:02:05< Ivanovic> a player will see nothing of this
20101228 13:02:14< Cookiee> okay im really reading something weird
20101228 13:02:16< Cookiee> D:
20101228 13:02:33< Espreon> Ivanovic: ... So... you want a gettext helper file in mainline?
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20101228 13:02:49< Ivanovic> Espreon: not exactly
20101228 13:03:08< Ivanovic> Espreon: i would love to see stuff that could be useful transformed to macros
20101228 13:03:16< Ivanovic> bbs, got to eat something
20101228 13:03:27< Cookiee> oh may i suggest with the 1.9 gameplay 
20101228 13:03:48< Cookiee> the planning mode... could you guys have a button to just do every movement other than continuous pressing of y
20101228 13:04:08< Cookiee> also fix the text from going into ... although im aware it might be a bug or something ^^
20101228 13:04:10 * Cookiee runs
20101228 13:04:38< Cookiee> also grrr said the game turns might be longer with the planning mode :D
20101228 13:05:10< Cookiee> ^^ just an idea 
20101228 13:07:14< timotei> Ivanovic: also, does the Romanian team even have a mailing list?
20101228 13:07:43< timotei> Ivanovic: IDK how the traslation stuff works
20101228 13:10:35< Espreon> Ivanovic: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/wesnoth-umc-dev/trunk/The_Silver_Lands/mainline-strings.cfg?revision=8309&content-type=text%2Fplain ... Something like this?
20101228 13:11:15< Espreon> If so, what shall be classified as "useful"? (Other than attack names)
20101228 13:18:25< Ivanovic> Espreon: i was thinking a little further
20101228 13:18:34< Ivanovic> more like a macro to eg "add berserk to weapon"
20101228 13:18:41< Ivanovic> "add magical to weapon", ...
20101228 13:19:25< Espreon> My my...
20101228 13:20:33< CIA-84> ivanovic * r48116 /trunk/po/ (129 files in 25 dirs): another pot-update after the text domain move stuff
20101228 13:21:29< Ivanovic> if working via some macro file i'd go for: provide a macro for all the special stuff
20101228 13:21:41< Ivanovic> like: name of ability, descriptions of ability
20101228 13:21:46< Ivanovic> right where the ability is defined
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20101228 13:23:29< timotei> Espreon: :>
20101228 13:23:33< timotei> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnPYvL6U3gg
20101228 13:23:35< timotei> :D
20101228 13:23:37< timotei> wesnoth 1.3 to 1.8
20101228 13:24:07< timotei> um lol, that looks embarassing
20101228 13:25:08< Espreon> Ewww... 1.3 to *1.8*
20101228 13:25:20< timotei> man... that trailer is... not good at all
20101228 13:25:29< timotei> it could be "good" for a presentation
20101228 13:25:46 * timotei goes to eat
20101228 13:25:57< timotei> I guess I'll tell this guy to redo the whole thing
20101228 13:26:05< timotei> Espreon: maybe you can come up with some suggestions
20101228 13:26:11< timotei> since, you know better 1.3 till 1.8
20101228 13:26:15< Espreon> Nnnnnnnnnooooooooooo...
20101228 13:26:48< Cookiee> why is there no music...
20101228 13:26:55< Espreon> Ivanovic: For some reason, I think esr would bite your head off if something like that were done.
20101228 13:27:21< esr> ?
20101228 13:27:47< esr> Oh, I see.
20101228 13:27:49< Espreon> esr: Remember our little conversation>
20101228 13:27:50< Espreon> *?
20101228 13:27:55< Ivanovic> esr: talking about some way to reduce string duplication between campaigns and mainline where campaigns copy&paste mainline strings
20101228 13:28:53< esr> Why is string duplication a problem?  Because of translations?
20101228 13:29:10< Ivanovic> esr: because it sucks when changing something a little and moving textdomains
20101228 13:29:14< Ivanovic> cf the last commits
20101228 13:29:28< Ivanovic> eg lets assume there is a typo in a description
20101228 13:32:02< Ivanovic> it is likely to be fixed in the "main version" and those others will be forgotten
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20101228 15:15:41< CIA-84> ivanovic * r48117 /trunk/ (22 files in 21 dirs): updated Lithuanian translation
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20101228 16:09:20< CIA-84> silene * r48118 /trunk/src/ (variable.cpp variable.hpp): Allowed skipping over [insert_tag] children when visiting vconfig objects.
20101228 16:09:48< CIA-84> silene * r48119 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: Changed __shallow_literal field so that it returns unaltered [insert_tag] children.
20101228 16:09:51< CIA-84> silene * r48120 /trunk/data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Improved [command] tag so that it can cope with WML from [insert_tag] containing code that is either self-modified or modified by its siblings.
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20101228 16:15:51< StandYourGround> Any forum moderators?  There is a user called HamBurger spamming the boards right now
20101228 16:16:15< zookeeper> need an admin to ban it
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20101228 16:18:58< zookeeper> Ivanovic, ^
20101228 16:19:05< zookeeper> or anyone :x
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20101228 16:24:17< CIA-84> ai0867 * r48121 /trunk/po/wesnoth-units/nl.po: Dutch translation update
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20101228 16:40:53< Gambit> Ivanovic: Around?
20101228 16:41:23< Gambit> Note to self. Ask shadowmaster to let moderators mute users.
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20101228 16:43:46< Gambit> Soliton: around?
20101228 16:44:31< Espreon> Yeah, I'm done dealing with this one.
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20101228 17:03:38< Gambit> God I feel so useless. Well it looks like he left Espreon. I'll start cleaning up again.
20101228 17:05:18< Espreon> Who left me?
20101228 17:05:38< Gambit> *Well it looks like he left, Espreon.
20101228 17:06:06< Espreon> Ah.
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20101228 17:08:20< Gambit> shadowmaster: Can you set us up one of those quick tools later that moves a thread to the junkyard without going through five pages?
20101228 17:12:45< Gambit> Crap he's back Espreon.
20101228 17:14:59< Gambit> Wow he sent me a PM "u noooooob"
20101228 17:19:19< Espreon> DAMN!
20101228 17:19:28< Espreon> Imma kill his posts outta boredom!
20101228 17:20:35 * Gambit pours all his will and maturity into not responding to this PM.
20101228 17:21:44< Gambit> I'm taking janebot offline. I don't need this spam in my database and all the subscribees' backlogs.
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20101228 17:22:34< Gambit> On second thought... I can just disable forum reporting but still keep her up.
20101228 17:23:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20101228 17:23:30< Gambit> In fact... I think I can just take Wesnoth reporting offline, but still service frogatto.
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20101228 17:28:57-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: FOSDEM2011: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Fosdem2011 | 194 bugs, 302 feature requests, 21 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20101228 20:11:07< mordante> servus
20101228 20:11:24< timotei> hi mordante 
20101228 20:12:36< mordante> hi timotei 
20101228 20:20:46< mordante> Ivanovic, if you want to move the tooltip texts around I would like them in the wesnoth-lib textdomain 
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20101228 20:52:00< CIA-84> silene * r48122 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Fixed game configuration not being reset when starting a new game.
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20101228 21:22:45< timotei> did anyone take any decision for moving wesnoth to git?
20101228 21:23:06< timotei> or it's still "not accesbile for everyone" reason
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20101228 21:27:36< loonycyborg> timotei: GNA doesn't support git still last time I checked.
20101228 21:27:58< timotei> loonycyborg: yeah. I know. But, moving to github/gitorious
20101228 21:28:04< shadowmaster> gna barely supports itself
20101228 21:28:09< timotei> iirc KDE and many big "things" use that
20101228 21:28:59< eoc> the github page is usability crap but they offer a good service indeed
20101228 21:33:57< mordante> timotei, not sure how good windows support for git is, also IMO the learning curve of git is much higher which might be a disadvantage for possible contributors
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20101228 21:38:07< shadowmaster> I think the question was whether anyone took any decision, not what the individual opinions are
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20101228 21:40:36< Sapient> there are Git GUIs available for Windows, although Git is slow on Windows
20101228 21:41:46< shadowmaster> if you want to go by opinions, I don't think everyone's okay with multi-GiB history sitting on their hard disks
20101228 21:42:14< mordante> I wasn't sure what timotei was after
20101228 21:42:28< shadowmaster> well, 1.7 GiB of history + at least half a GiB of the working tree
20101228 21:42:50< Sapient> what about Bazaar?
20101228 21:43:10< shadowmaster> I think esr doesn't like it ;)
20101228 21:45:15< Sapient> because they stole the name? ;)
20101228 21:49:01< esr> No.
20101228 21:49:48< timotei> mordante: "possible contributors" that don't want to learn extra .. let's say 4 git commands...
20101228 21:50:05< Sapient> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/migration/en/why-switch-to-bazaar.html
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20101228 21:50:22< esr> It;s got a bunch of complicated arbitrary rules about when you can do what to who, especially confusion about whether you're operating on a branch or a repo.
20101228 21:50:46< esr> git or mercurial would be better IMO.
20101228 21:51:03< mordante> timotei, and how often do we get questions about problems with git and how often about svn?
20101228 21:51:18< timotei> mordante: we don't get questions about git, but about that git-svn :D
20101228 21:51:54< timotei> and windows support is good enough
20101228 21:51:58< timotei> IDK about mac though
20101228 21:52:03< esr> If we're really concerned about people with an aversion to spiky interfaces and svn-ingrained habits, Mercurial would be the best choice.
20101228 21:52:17< mordante> timotei, I've seen enough git specific questions
20101228 21:52:36< shadowmaster> esr: no, I hate mercurial
20101228 21:52:47< esr> The Mercurial CLI is a pretty easy step up from svn.  git's isn't.
20101228 21:52:58< esr> shadowmaster: Oh?  Why?
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20101228 21:53:11< shadowmaster> because it's CLI is actually harder to use than git's.
20101228 21:53:25< shadowmaster> also, I hear from other people that its support for branches is pretty poor.
20101228 21:53:32< shadowmaster> people who've used it for more time than me.
20101228 21:53:41< esr> shadowmaster: Huh?  I don't think so.
20101228 21:53:43< timotei> mordante: the think is, if the majority of devs support git, let's do something in this way.
20101228 21:54:05< timotei> s/think/thing
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20101228 21:54:43< Sapient> how many SVN users are on Windows anyway?
20101228 21:54:46< shadowmaster> the first confusing thing about mercurial is it's "trap" design
20101228 21:54:59< shadowmaster> why does it associate revision numbers to commit hashes when history can actually be non-linear?
20101228 21:55:08< eoc> svn and git support on win is more or less equally bad
20101228 21:55:18< timotei> Sapient: I guess a few
20101228 21:55:20< shadowmaster> it gets ... interesting when you stumble upon mercurial commits with multipple parents.
20101228 21:55:31< Sapient> timotei: start a poll in Developer's Discussion forum
20101228 21:55:37< timotei> ok
20101228 21:55:42< esr> shadowmaster: As a local convenience.  The sequential revnos aren't guaranteed to port.
20101228 21:56:40< timotei> Sapient: was that a suggestino or an .. order?
20101228 21:56:41< timotei> xD
20101228 21:56:44< timotei> suggestion*
20101228 21:56:56< Sapient> I don't give orders, just threats ;)
20101228 21:57:02< timotei> lol
20101228 21:57:12< shadowmaster> esr: exactly, that's whi it is misleading. :|
20101228 21:57:12< shadowmaster> *why
20101228 21:57:44< shadowmaster> at least Git doesn't pretend to use such a poor concept that only really makes sense with a centralized VCS
20101228 21:57:45< esr> Anyway, I'd be delighted with a move to git or Mercurial.  Bazaar, not so much, though I could live with it.
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20101228 21:58:32< esr> shadowmaster: I'm not misled by it.  One just needs to bear in mind that hashes are the real IDs.
20101228 22:00:18< timotei> Sapient: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32656
20101228 22:00:19< mordante> eoc svn support on Windows is quite good
20101228 22:00:29< timotei> there you go. Thou the message is a bit abstract
20101228 22:00:36< shadowmaster> esr: tell that to a fucking newbie
20101228 22:00:43< Sapient> timotei: thanks. a forum poll will allow others who use version control, not just irc people
20101228 22:00:53< timotei> :)
20101228 22:01:41< mordante> I'm off night
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20101228 22:02:04< timotei> I was tempted to say "we want to move to git", but I said we'd better use another thread for "flame wars"
20101228 22:02:17< Sapient> that can be the next poll ;)
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20101228 22:03:04< mordante> timotei, that would be also be misleading, since it would suggest all devs support that opinion
20101228 22:03:40< timotei> I guess that the next GCI should be improved in terms of... organization
20101228 22:03:53< mordante> ?
20101228 22:03:55< timotei> students should have some kind of ranking or stuff like this
20101228 22:04:02< timotei> cf the last GCI mailing list email
20101228 22:04:24< Sapient> everyone vote on the poll
20101228 22:04:37< shadowmaster> weeee, polls suck
20101228 22:04:38< mordante> didn't read it, but I'm off now
20101228 22:04:39 * Sapient votes
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20101228 22:07:27< timotei> I'm off too. good night
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20101228 22:22:57< Sapient> esr: do you have a link to a more detailed bzr rant? I suspect your complaints may have been remedied since you last tried it
20101228 22:23:53< esr> Sapient: "Lastv try" was less than a month ago when I fielded reposurgeon.  The design breakage directly affected reposurgon.
20101228 22:24:55< esr> The exporter only exports brancches.  The importer only creattes repos.  These, and other bzr commands, are confused about what the work unit ought to be.
20101228 22:25:56< esr> It's a design problem that runs like a structural crack down the middle of bzr, complicating the interface model ridiculously.
20101228 22:26:29< esr> In summary: Ugh.  Do not want.
20101228 22:29:29< Sapient> ok, thanks
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20101228 23:07:54< kenzy> wesbot seen Crab_
20101228 23:07:54< wesbot> kenzy: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 1d 19h ago.  1d 18h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20101228 23:08:03< kenzy> wesbot seen Crab_
20101228 23:12:30< Ivanovic> re
20101228 23:12:41< Ivanovic> mordante: why do you think it would be better in -lib?
20101228 23:13:00< Ivanovic> kenzy: repeating your request won't improve the result...
20101228 23:13:01< Ivanovic> ;)
20101228 23:13:07< Sapient> lol
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20101228 23:58:16-!- fstltna [~fstltna@108.121.10.22] has quit [Quit: fstltna]
--- Log closed Wed Dec 29 00:00:46 2010