--- Log opened Tue Dec 07 00:00:14 2010
--- Day changed Tue Dec 07 2010
20101207 00:00:14< zookeeper> we can say that a leak "causes damage to the policy process" is completely abstract idea; it ignores the fact that the people who actually cause the damage (by acting differently, less efficiently, whatever) are entirely different people than the leakers
20101207 00:00:22< zookeeper> +but +that
20101207 00:00:58< noy> Well it directly harms the interests of the government
20101207 00:01:27< zookeeper> indirectly
20101207 00:01:39< noy> esr is right about that and that should be the basis. I'm just saying the long term effects which don't seem bad actually are. 
20101207 00:02:02< noy> be the basis of any legal action*
20101207 00:02:24< loonycyborg> Government wants less incompetency and crime in their midst. Leaks are in its interest :P
20101207 00:03:03< noy> loonycyborg: for the vast majority of what was said there was no incompetency at all
20101207 00:04:04< noy> No I think it does harm the US interests. Look at the stuff said about leaders like Karzai... do you think he's going to be more amenable to negotiations when we call him an corrupt dictator? 
20101207 00:04:05< loonycyborg> 'vast majority' is not the same as 'all'
20101207 00:04:50< noy> loonycyborg: if releasing vast majority of the documents actually does harm, then what? 
20101207 00:05:23< loonycyborg> I don't think it does harm. Even if it did I'm not convinced that it outweighs the benefits.
20101207 00:05:25< noy> I mean if by releasing them you're actually harming the interests of the state, then what? 
20101207 00:05:33< zookeeper> if i leak some information, and then someone does something bad (which we can presume they wouldn't have done without the leak), then who's responsible for that bad thing? me, the other guy, are we both equally responsible or am i a little bit responsible and the other guy is mostly responsible?
20101207 00:06:12< loonycyborg> noy: That sounds kinda silly to me. Nobody here respects interests of state much :P
20101207 00:06:26< noy> I do, partly because I've worked there. 
20101207 00:07:04< loonycyborg> Besides, state acts according to changing circumstances, it can adapt to a little leak. That's its job.
20101207 00:07:07< noy> and the "evil people behind the curtains" actually are trying to do their best for their countries interests
20101207 00:07:13< noy> this isn't a "little leak"
20101207 00:07:44< noy> This is basically all the diplomatic reporting from the US government at the secret level from 2006 to 2010
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20101207 01:01:12< Gambit> On second (well more like 50th) thought I think the metaphor needs further revising. Your bodyguard steals something from you and gives it to a random passerby who then donates it to a museum.
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20101207 01:01:59< Gambit> However the random passerby *does* know that the thing is yours.
20101207 01:03:38< Gambit> (and that it was stolen)
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20101207 02:53:14<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r8150 /branches/1.8/Flight_Freedom/: Created the 1.8 branch for Flight to Freedom.
20101207 03:01:50<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r8151 /trunk/Flight_Freedom/scenarios/02a_Rebellion.cfg: FtF: ran wmlindent.
20101207 03:05:45<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r8152 /trunk/Flight_Freedom/ (20 files in 4 dirs): FtF: ran wmllint.
20101207 03:09:03<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r8153 /trunk/Flight_Freedom/main.cfg: FtF: added a missing translation mark.
20101207 03:09:47<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r8154 /branches/1.8/Flight_Freedom/main.cfg: FtF (1.8): added a missing translation mark.
20101207 03:10:11<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r8155 /branches/1.8/Flight_Freedom/scenarios/02a_Rebellion.cfg: FtF (1.8): ran wmlindent.
20101207 03:30:29<+CIA-44> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r8156 /trunk/Flight_Freedom/ (3 files in 2 dirs): FtF: killed the ancient lava bridge terrain.
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--- Log closed Wed Dec 08 00:00:51 2010