--- Log opened Fri Jan 21 00:00:59 2011
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20110121 00:36:22< CIA-1> espreon * r48349 /trunk/doc/manual/images/fr/ (6 files): Ran umcpropfix.
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20110121 01:50:15< CIA-1> espreon * r48350 /trunk/ (12 files in 11 dirs): Updated the British English translation.
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20110121 03:13:05< CIA-1> espreon * r48351 /trunk/po/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Updated the British English translation.
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20110121 03:51:02< Sapient> wesbot: seen silene
20110121 03:51:02< wesbot> Sapient: The person with the nick silene last spoke 39d 15h ago.  38d 18h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20110121 03:53:32< Espreon> Sapient: Did you read my messages?
20110121 03:53:46< Sapient> Espreon: yes, did you read mine?
20110121 03:53:51< Espreon> Of course.
20110121 03:54:01< Espreon> Did you read zookeeper's?
20110121 03:54:02< Sapient> the cost of removing those macros is more than the benefit
20110121 03:54:22< Sapient> no, when did zookeeper respond?
20110121 03:54:39< Espreon> Shortly after you sent me messages.
20110121 03:54:51< Sapient> I'll look again
20110121 03:55:00< Espreon> ALLOW_UNDO and REDRAW... fine. The rest, no.
20110121 03:57:06< Sapient> did you read the part where I said "if their removal is justified, then it should be supported by wmllint at least"
20110121 03:57:32< Sapient> breaking UMC just because the macro isn't used in mainline is a weak argument
20110121 03:57:47< Sapient> the whole point of including it in core is so authors can rely on it being there
20110121 03:57:54< Espreon> Dude, that's not why I killed them.
20110121 03:58:09< Sapient> why did you?
20110121 03:58:28< Espreon> I killed them either because they were horrible or their functions could be done by something better.
20110121 03:59:13< Sapient> I certainly don't prefer typing [allow_undo][/allow_undo] ... just as most people don't type [set_variable] but use the {VARIABLE} macro
20110121 03:59:56< Espreon> Fine, bring ALLOW_UNDO and REDRAW back.
20110121 04:00:15< Espreon> Just don't bring back the horrible/pretty much obsolete macros.
20110121 04:00:42< Sapient> most of those were added by Roze and I didn'
20110121 04:00:49< Sapient> didn't want them in the first place
20110121 04:01:15< Sapient> so good riddance to ON_* and their ilk, it just needs to be supported in wmllint as I said
20110121 04:01:26< Espreon> Talk to esr.
20110121 04:02:35 * Sapient pings esr
20110121 04:03:43< Sapient> btw, has anyone else seen this: <Lua error> not enough memory
20110121 04:03:55< Espreon> Nah.
20110121 04:03:58< Espreon> How did you get that?
20110121 04:04:07< Sapient> :lua wesnoth.wml_actions.kill({type="Drake Warrior"})
20110121 04:04:33< Sapient> I kept re-recruiting it to get the desired traits and killing it
20110121 04:04:49< Sapient> it worked for the first few times then I got a memory error
20110121 04:04:58< Espreon> Meh, complain to silene.
20110121 04:05:18< Sapient> but now I'm not getting the memory error anymore it seems
20110121 04:05:48< Espreon> Hmmmmm...
20110121 04:05:51< Sapient> so it might be related to garbage collection, but still it's a bit suspicious
20110121 04:06:14< Sapient> one wouldn't expect such a simple operation to cause memory issues
20110121 04:06:27< Espreon> True.
20110121 04:07:58< Sapient> this is also my first line of Lua code I have ever written, so I guess he finally converted me to use it ;)
20110121 04:08:39< Sapient> well, maybe "converted" isn't the right term (yet) since I'm still a pure WML advocate
20110121 04:08:51 * Espreon probably won't touch Lua for quite a while.
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20110121 04:21:59< Sapient> hmm, now it's telling me "There are no vacant tiles in which to recruit a unit"
20110121 04:22:12< Sapient> I wish I was running a debug build
20110121 04:22:40< Sapient> aaaand it crashed
20110121 04:34:13< esr> Sapient: You rang?
20110121 04:34:45< Sapient> hi
20110121 04:35:22< Sapient> espreon would like to deprecate some old WML macros and I said please don't until there is upconvert support in wmllint
20110121 04:35:48< Sapient> well, they have already been deprecated for several releases on the 1.9 branch but not yet removed
20110121 04:36:20< Sapient> are you interested and/or available for such a thing?
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20110121 04:37:37< Sapient> check the svn log of deprecated-utils.cfg for all changes by espreon for a complete listing
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20110121 04:37:53< Espreon> ... or just look at the changelog.
20110121 04:38:13< Sapient> minus ALLOW_UNDO and REDRAW which we decided to retain afterall
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20110121 04:42:19< Sapient> If not, I guess we could save some work  by scanning all content on the 1.8&1.9 add-ons for instances of macro usage
20110121 04:42:32< Sapient> it may be that some of them aren't even in use
20110121 04:45:11< Sapient> anyways, gtg cya later
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20110121 04:46:07< CIA-1> espreon * r48352 /trunk/po/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Updated the British English translation.
20110121 04:46:34< Espreon> Sapient: Why not make a thread?
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20110121 05:11:07< CIA-1> espreon * r48353 /branches/1.8/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Updated the British English translation.
20110121 05:15:39< CIA-1> espreon * r48354 /branches/1.8/po/wesnoth/en_GB.po: Updated the British English translation.
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20110121 10:49:17< Ivanovic> moin
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20110121 13:47:18< CIA-1> ivanovic * r48355 /trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): updated Portuguese (Brazil) translation
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20110121 16:31:58< Elvish_Pillager> boucman: it's no longer midnight on Sunday; how're you doing? :p
20110121 16:32:18< boucman> great, gimme 10' and i'll have time for you :)
20110121 16:32:22< Elvish_Pillager> :)
20110121 16:32:29 * Elvish_Pillager gives boucman ten feet
20110121 16:32:44< boucman> hehe
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20110121 16:56:11< boucman> Elvish_Pillager: ok, i'm ready, first thing is to get me to reproduce your glitches :)
20110121 16:56:26< Elvish_Pillager> okay
20110121 16:56:39< Elvish_Pillager> the first one is simple: apply an image-mod to a unit that scales its graphic to be bigger
20110121 16:57:44< boucman> is there such a unit in mainline ? 
20110121 16:57:49< boucman> if not, how do I make one ?
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20110121 16:57:55< Elvish_Pillager> err
20110121 16:58:14< Elvish_Pillager> can you come on the 1.9.4 multiplayer server and I show you?
20110121 16:59:29< boucman> I have trunk compiled right now, is it the same server ? (i'm not sure)
20110121 16:59:34< Elvish_Pillager> it is not
20110121 16:59:38< Elvish_Pillager> I could also come on the trunk server
20110121 16:59:46< Elvish_Pillager> I'm not fully updated though
20110121 17:00:30< Elvish_Pillager> I'm there now
20110121 17:00:56< boucman> ok, good
20110121 17:01:11< boucman> joining
20110121 17:06:25< Elvish_Pillager> The standard Fire Dragon is fine, but if you scale up the Fire Dragon, it's glitchy in the hexes outside the ones it normally covers.
20110121 17:07:14< Elvish_Pillager> But it's fine in the hexes it normally covers, so this looks to me like it's using the base size of the unit image when it should be using the modded image size.
20110121 17:07:24< boucman> indeed
20110121 17:08:43< Elvish_Pillager> the other glitch I remember (and this is true for the Fire Dragon too) is the weird layering with castles.
20110121 17:09:07< boucman> Elvish_Pillager: please write them down, I'm looking at them one at a time :P
20110121 17:09:15< Elvish_Pillager> I have them written down
20110121 17:09:21< boucman> great
20110121 17:09:31< boucman> and I have a clue for the yeti, gimme a minute or two
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20110121 17:35:30< boucman> Elvish_Pillager: can you go back on mp server so I can test my change ?
20110121 17:35:49< Elvish_Pillager> okay
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20110121 17:40:18< boucman> Elvish_Pillager: done
20110121 17:40:31< CIA-1> boucman * r48356 /trunk/src/unit_frame.cpp: resynchronize invalidation code and redraw code in unit frame... this fixes most of the glitches with big units (but not all, i'm looking at the rest)
20110121 17:40:33< Elvish_Pillager> updating now
20110121 17:41:33< boucman> Elvish_Pillager: do you have an easy way for me to test without your help ? i'll have to do some heavy debugging at this point, and doing it in MP could be tedious 
20110121 17:41:49< Elvish_Pillager> hmm
20110121 17:42:11< Elvish_Pillager> shouldn't it be easy to make a test scenario with such a unit existing on game-start?
20110121 17:42:32< boucman> probably, but I suck at WML :P
20110121 17:42:46< Elvish_Pillager> just copy an existing scenario and add a [unit] type=Yeti x=10 y=10 side=1 [modifications] [object] [effect] apply_to=image_mod add="~SCALE(200,200)"
20110121 17:42:48< boucman> tell me how to add it at the test scenario and it would be perfect
20110121 17:42:55< Elvish_Pillager> with line breaks and closing tags as needed
20110121 17:43:13< Elvish_Pillager> the [unit] tag can either go in a [side] or an [event]
20110121 17:43:14< boucman> k, looking...
20110121 17:46:38< boucman> ok, it works, I can test now, thx
20110121 17:46:42< Elvish_Pillager> :)
20110121 17:47:14< Ivanovic> boucman: uhm, looks like TSI rebooked his beds himself
20110121 17:47:19< Ivanovic> cf http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Fosdem2011
20110121 17:47:25< boucman> yeah :(
20110121 17:47:34< boucman> bit of confusion here...
20110121 17:48:09< Ivanovic> maybe mail him, telling him that you have booked 4 beds and not canceled his yet so that it might make sense for him to cancel and end in the same room both nights
20110121 17:48:37< Ivanovic> and i guess that Crab_ should know the status of his visa till monday or tuesday
20110121 17:48:58< boucman> have we booked for crab ?
20110121 17:49:15< Ivanovic> boucman: yeah, we do
20110121 17:49:24< boucman> ok, i'll drop a mail to tsi then
20110121 17:49:40< Ivanovic> we booked for all listed on the wiki
20110121 17:49:43< Ivanovic> 9 beds overall that is
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20110121 17:50:37< boucman> Ivanovic: could you PM me his mail ? apparently I don't have it (except the address in the commit messages which I doubt
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20110121 18:15:58< boucman> Ivanovic: tsi canceled his room, so we're good now
20110121 18:16:05< Ivanovic> okay
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20110121 18:32:11< CIA-1> boucman * r48357 /trunk/src/unit_frame.cpp: fix all known glitches with big units
20110121 18:32:18< boucman> Elvish_Pillager: fixed the remaining glitch, please test, report if there are more glitches, or the next thing to fix if not :)
20110121 18:32:43< Elvish_Pillager> boucman: testing now
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20110121 19:18:39< Elvish_Pillager> boucman: awesome, it works for the yeti... testing some more complicated stuff...
20110121 19:21:50< Elvish_Pillager> boucman: Alright, next glitch: Layering with castles, cavewall, etc.
20110121 19:22:39< Elvish_Pillager> Making that work properly probably requires more invasive changes...
20110121 19:24:12< Elvish_Pillager> the obvious (to my mind) conceptual solution is to make the layer number global - i.e. make it so that hexes further south on the map are at a higher layer, period
20110121 19:25:08< Elvish_Pillager> which would fix the silliest castle glitches by making it so that the castle graphics are usually at the same layer on both sides of the hex border.
20110121 19:27:16< boucman> Elvish_Pillager: I have to leave now, but I should be around most of the WE, so we'll do some more of that later
20110121 19:27:27< Elvish_Pillager> okay
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20110121 19:54:33< mordante> servus
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20110121 20:27:37< mordante> AI0867, on which server did you upload TDH?
20110121 20:28:32< Espreon> 1.9
20110121 20:29:39< mordante> AI0867, 1.9 is not yet uploaded to wescamp, maybe I find some time for it this weekend
20110121 21:22:16< mordante> I'm off night
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20110121 22:27:16< asantoni> hey guys, can someone summarize where you got to re: Mac App Store licensing?
20110121 22:32:50< fendrin> asantoni: ?
20110121 22:33:28< shadowmaster> I think he's asking for the outcome of the ML discussion.
20110121 22:33:55< fendrin> ah
20110121 22:34:14< fendrin> discussions on our dev-ml never lead anywhere :-P
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20110121 22:51:51< Espreon> mordante: I have fribidi 0.19.2.
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20110121 23:10:48< asantoni> yeah, ok thanks fendrin
20110121 23:11:05< asantoni> are you guys going to try to proceed with the Mac App Store?
20110121 23:11:39< asantoni> (I spoke with someone from Wesnoth about this at the GSoC Mentor Summit in October... maybe that person's idling here?)
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20110121 23:12:45< boucman> asantoni: that was probably me...
20110121 23:13:02< boucman> (if it was during a dedicated miniconf it was me)
20110121 23:13:34< boucman> asantoni: tbh, it revived a flamewar from the iphone app store time, and it's not very conclusive either way
20110121 23:14:00< boucman> it seems the mac app store has a policy that is different enough that we can't just say it's the same thing than the iphone store
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20110121 23:16:10< asantoni> hey boucman
20110121 23:16:18< asantoni> yeah that's been our conclusion... 
20110121 23:16:40< asantoni> btw one thing that came up in the VLC case and I've seen kicked around is that you can override a lot of the terms by using your own EULA
20110121 23:16:55< boucman> IANAL
20110121 23:16:56< asantoni> but we just found out that custom EULAs must meet "minimum terms" that include not being less restrictive
20110121 23:17:02< asantoni> IANAL too
20110121 23:17:14< asantoni> so this custom EULA idea doesn't solve anything
20110121 23:17:42< boucman> yeah, the thing is apple seems to add its own eula to apps on its store... but that's all IIUC and what was said on the ml
20110121 23:17:57< asantoni> yeah
20110121 23:18:24< asantoni> I think the best way around it (we might do this) is to just add an exception to the GPL
20110121 23:18:53< asantoni> if everyone is already in agreement that you want to get into the App Store, then you just add an exception to your license that says that
20110121 23:19:24< boucman> asantoni: not a likely solution for wesnoth
20110121 23:19:30< asantoni> why?
20110121 23:20:06< boucman> too many contributors, lots of which don't want to compromise on OSS principles
20110121 23:20:20< asantoni> ok
20110121 23:20:30< asantoni> yeah, it's a mini-relicense
20110121 23:21:03< asantoni> in our case, I think we can pull it off because we like 95% of the code covered by 30 contributors we can get onboard
20110121 23:21:30< asantoni> if anyone from the other 5% doesn't agree, I can remove their code
20110121 23:23:19< asantoni> this is complicated enough that a lawyer will have to be involved though
20110121 23:25:39< boucman> :(
20110121 23:28:58-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: FOSDEM2011: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Fosdem2011 | 187 bugs, 308 feature requests, 23 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110121 23:31:46< CIA-1> soliton * r48358 /trunk/data/core/help.cfg: Clarified gold per village setting as suggested by bug #17501.
20110121 23:35:03< shadowmaster> boucman: perhaps your changes may fix https://gna.org/bugs/?17292 ? (which I haven't confirmed myself yet)
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20110121 23:36:27< shadowmaster> well, I just confirmed it on an earlier revision 
20110121 23:36:55< boucman> shadowmaster: most likely not, what I tweaked touched only the main image (and this seems to be a halo problem) and only for bigger than hex images
20110121 23:37:21< shadowmaster> maybe you can look into this as well?
20110121 23:38:18< boucman> not tonight but i'll assign the bug to myself
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 22 00:00:05 2011