--- Log opened Mon Jan 03 00:00:17 2011
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20110103 03:35:32< un214> I just discovered A New Land is so easy
20110103 03:35:59< un214> with starting gold of 100 (what it came up with) I won handily alone
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20110103 05:06:33< shalok> When observing a multiplayer game still in progress is there any way to just skip straight to the present without having to watch all the previous moves?
20110103 05:10:10< shadowmaster> check Quick replays in the lobby view
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20110103 05:55:13< Soul_keeper> shadowmaster, does that require a later version than 1.8.x ?
20110103 05:56:51< Soul_keeper> ok I see it nm
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20110103 09:37:27< vultraz> im trying to add some .cfg map editor filed from another computer to a wesnoth 1.8.5 install on mac os x. what folder do i place the files in?
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20110103 09:39:46< Roofy> how can I upload my map on wesnoth?
20110103 09:41:11< vultraz> the map editor says its looking in /Users/.../wesnoth_1.8.5, but i cant find that
20110103 09:42:16< Soul_keeper> Roofy,  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/BuildingMapsDistribution
20110103 09:43:21< vultraz> what about me
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20110103 09:50:52< Ivanovic> moin
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20110103 10:07:40< Soliton> vultraz: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EditingWesnoth#Where_is_my_user_data_directory.3F
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20110103 11:13:25< vultraz> thanks
20110103 11:13:28< vultraz> :)
20110103 11:13:31< vultraz> :) :) :)
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20110103 19:35:25< grzywacz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rXqej8zg0Q
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20110103 20:28:44< ancestral> So I have this idea
20110103 20:28:57< ancestral> The recruit list is basically your hand
20110103 20:29:01< keb> yay
20110103 20:29:16< ancestral> And you have cards in your hand
20110103 20:29:25< ancestral> When you recruit a unit, the card is played
20110103 20:29:36< ancestral> Or you can recruit other things, like actions
20110103 20:29:50< keb> isnt the recruit more like the deck, you dont know what you will get
20110103 20:29:57< ancestral> Yes
20110103 20:30:28< ancestral> Exactly
20110103 20:31:17< keb> although it will be within some specs
20110103 20:31:18< keb> how would you recruit actions
20110103 20:31:53< ancestral> Well, actions will technically be "units" but when it is recruited, then it fires an event
20110103 20:32:32< ancestral> So for example, "Crystal Sword" could be recruited
20110103 20:32:47< ancestral> And it would give a unit +2 damage on attack
20110103 20:33:19< keb> ah, so you are thinking of allowing to buy enhancements
20110103 20:33:20< VurtualRuler98> can I recruit winning?
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20110103 20:34:15< jpi80> Good day!
20110103 20:34:24< ancestral> keb: If it's doable
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20110103 20:34:33< ancestral> VurtualRuler98: theoretically, sure
20110103 20:34:35< keb> jpi80 it is a good day to die, yes
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20110103 20:35:56< jpi80> Thy death comes any day! ;)
20110103 20:35:56< jpi80>  I was reading the art tutorials specially the vector ones. Many of the images are missing. Example: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Smooth_shading_in_vector
20110103 20:35:57< jpi80> Does anybody knows where to find them?
20110103 20:36:19< keb> i wonder how close klingons are to orcs in culture
20110103 20:36:54< ancestral> Uh oh
20110103 20:37:12< ancestral> The problem is someone put it on a remote server
20110103 20:37:18< ancestral> Which may have been a bad idea
20110103 20:37:27< keb> jpi80 looks like they were on a site called personal.fi
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20110103 20:38:23< jpi80> is there anyway to retrieve the images? from the creator of the article maybe?
20110103 20:38:49< ancestral> There's probably a place for things like that somewhere in the Wesnothsphere. shadowmaster, where should people upload images for the wiki? Can it be done in the wiki?
20110103 20:39:29< ancestral> Understandably, that feature it could open a huge can of worms…
20110103 20:39:57< shadowmaster> forum
20110103 20:40:03< shadowmaster> or ask Ivanovic 
20110103 20:40:09< ancestral> And then link it from the forum address
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20110103 20:40:16< ancestral> Fair enough
20110103 20:40:22< Ivanovic> in the forums and link them
20110103 20:41:10< ancestral> jpi80: Sgt. Groovy did that page
20110103 20:41:28< jpi80> ok, I will check if I can PM him
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20110103 20:41:59< keb> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20044&p=283626&hilit=smooth+shading+vector#p283626
20110103 20:42:05< keb> thats the topic
20110103 20:42:07< ancestral> Almost three years ago, but some things don't need to be changed
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20110103 20:42:33< ancestral> that often
20110103 20:44:27< keb> all his other tutorials have the same problem
20110103 20:44:45< ancestral> Perhaps he needs to pay his web hosting bill
20110103 20:44:51< jpi80> ja, sure
20110103 20:45:13< jpi80> maybe the hosting places do not like his avatar... :)
20110103 20:45:25< ancestral> You could see if archive.org has a cached copy
20110103 20:45:26< jpi80> I just Pm him
20110103 20:45:35< jpi80> checking...
20110103 20:46:32< ancestral> Dang, 2007
20110103 20:47:15< keb> he logged in recently
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20110103 20:51:31< keb> ancestral what if there was amla for recruiting :)  like a civ tree 
20110103 20:52:12< ancestral> You mean if you recruit enough soldiers you can recruit better ones?
20110103 20:52:44< keb> yeah
20110103 20:52:51< ancestral> Totally could happen
20110103 20:52:57< keb> sort of a market effect
20110103 20:53:33< ancestral> keb: There's a ton of awesome things that could be done through the recruit window that I never thought of before
20110103 20:53:38< keb> of course prices should rise.  i think that happens in one of the campaigns, maybe UtBS
20110103 20:54:21< ancestral> keb: The more you buy something, the slightly higher the price becomes
20110103 20:54:31< ancestral> Sure
20110103 20:54:38< keb> the problem is it makes the gold factor more influential
20110103 20:55:02< jpi80> what is the add to gameplay?
20110103 20:56:55< keb> well inflation is good for damping the spam strategy and using extra gold 
20110103 20:57:40< VurtualRuler98> Recruit airstrikes.
20110103 20:57:41< keb> maybe make balancing easier
20110103 20:57:56< ancestral> Perhaps every turn the same unit is purchased the cost goes up 1 gold or 15%, whichever is higher
20110103 20:58:12< VurtualRuler98> Why not just simulate supply and demand properly?
20110103 20:58:18< ancestral> Then every turn the inflation settles 1 gold back to its original price or something
20110103 20:58:33< VurtualRuler98> As you recruit units, which are in a limited supply, demand goes up. More demand means more are available eventually.
20110103 20:58:48< VurtualRuler98> Lots of demand=economic boost=more stuff available & cheaper stuff
20110103 20:58:54< VurtualRuler98> Little demand=cheaper units
20110103 20:58:55< ancestral> Okay
20110103 20:59:16< VurtualRuler98> Capture more villages and also have more units available in general.
20110103 20:59:29< VurtualRuler98> You can't just wait for money and STIMULUS then
20110103 20:59:37< keb> if you add recruitment of techno/management advancements, it becomes a different game.  maybe time scale is wrong too
20110103 21:00:00< ancestral> You could also invest money instead of recruiting units
20110103 21:00:12< ancestral> (Technically, recruit an investor unit, which doesn't actually spawn a unit)
20110103 21:00:15< VurtualRuler98> Yeah but wesnoth won't neccessarily be hurting from being more complex, keb
20110103 21:00:28< VurtualRuler98> INVEST IN A NIGERIAN PRINCE!
20110103 21:00:33< ancestral> Haha
20110103 21:01:08< VurtualRuler98> You could also make units require researching
20110103 21:01:11< VurtualRuler98> (possibly breathing)
20110103 21:01:18< keb> haha interest
20110103 21:01:19< keb> in MP you could loan shark
20110103 21:02:16< jpi80> I do not feel market rules apply fully in a fantasy environment
20110103 21:02:50< jpi80> why would loyal units get more expensive? Indeed, they should just cost an upkeep, and maybe be limited to recruit
20110103 21:03:30< ancestral> http://imagebin.org/130827
20110103 21:03:48< ancestral> (arbitrary numbers, mostly)
20110103 21:03:51< keb> well loyal units come from a limited pool
20110103 21:03:54< jpi80> the market could apply to mercenaries or thiefs, assasins, etc
20110103 21:04:12< keb> like your family etc
20110103 21:04:40< ancestral> Hire advisors
20110103 21:04:56< ancestral> Which would impact your research and tech, which would allow for better units
20110103 21:05:07< ancestral> Like Europa Universalis III
20110103 21:05:17< ancestral> Or hire officers, like Romance of the Three Kingdoms
20110103 21:05:29< jpi80> look nice. Do you already have rules? if not, let me recommend this free game, is excellent http://www.keldon.net/rftg/
20110103 21:05:42< ancestral> Nah I don't really have rules
20110103 21:05:50< ancestral> I seem to recall that link
20110103 21:06:01< ancestral> I think eyerogue or another person showed me that
20110103 21:06:05< jpi80> check those out, they are really nice. Is form Race for the Galaxy
20110103 21:06:24< keb> yeah thats moving toward a different game.  think of the graphics work to support tech advancements
20110103 21:06:28< jpi80> and you get the code, if I am not wrong
20110103 21:06:30< keb> although it might be fun
20110103 21:06:36< VurtualRuler98> YOU HAVE RESEARCHED SCUBADIVING
20110103 21:06:42< VurtualRuler98> +1 movement in shallow and deep water!
20110103 21:07:00< keb> all your units are now undead :P
20110103 21:07:23< keb> hey there has to be a cost
20110103 21:07:36< ancestral> And if you invest in genetic engineering and mutation, you'll be able to recruit Mermen!
20110103 21:07:37< jpi80> yeah, research could be used also for scrolls and magic. The usual thing like improving armor, trainig horse man, etc...
20110103 21:07:38< VurtualRuler98> You have researched fission!
20110103 21:07:42< VurtualRuler98> You have completed the manhattan project!
20110103 21:07:51< keb> hehe
20110103 21:07:55< VurtualRuler98> You have finished constructing an ICBM
20110103 21:08:04< ancestral> You have discovered Literature
20110103 21:08:09< ancestral> (Yeah, really late on that one)
20110103 21:08:22< ancestral> Just go straight to Gunpowder
20110103 21:08:33< ancestral> And then nukes
20110103 21:09:15< jpi80> Have you ever played Zauberschwert? http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8232/zauberschwert-drachenei
20110103 21:09:15< ancestral> keb: Of course, some of this could just be done through a [message][option] interface
20110103 21:09:21< jpi80> also really easy and fun rules
20110103 21:09:26< keb> i like what they did in that campaign where the mage builds a nuclear cannon 
20110103 21:09:33< ancestral> Never heard of it
20110103 21:09:58< ancestral> Looks fun though
20110103 21:10:24< jpi80> yeah, it is. The expansion for heroes and landscapes is pretty cool also, though it goes away from KISS, but still playable
20110103 21:10:40< jpi80> you know, the rules are difficult to explain but once you play it once is very easy
20110103 21:10:42< VurtualRuler98> Simplicity and gaming don't go together man
20110103 21:10:50< VurtualRuler98> Well, maybe a little. If you know what you're doing.
20110103 21:11:01< keb> you mean like Go
20110103 21:11:09< keb> simple but infinitely playable
20110103 21:11:11< ancestral> VurtualRuler98: Computers make the complex easy by just doing the calculations in the background
20110103 21:11:11< VurtualRuler98> go isn't simple
20110103 21:11:17< ancestral> Which is why CRPGs work well
20110103 21:11:19< jpi80> Some games require complexity, some others no, all is in gameplay
20110103 21:11:20< keb> the rules are simple
20110103 21:11:45< ancestral> Reminds me of the Games magazine classification
20110103 21:12:13< jpi80> Go is simple in the sense it is not complicated. Go is not lame, in the sense it is complex. Or as people say, easy to understand hard to master
20110103 21:12:14< ancestral> Jump right in <--> Requires reading
20110103 21:12:21< ancestral> wait
20110103 21:13:28< ancestral> Meh never mind
20110103 21:13:37< VurtualRuler98> I'm required by international treaty to inform you that I have Dark Forces II right now and I'm mentally unstable
20110103 21:13:51< ancestral> Man I remember DF
20110103 21:14:28< joo> Go is simple on a 3×3 board.
20110103 21:14:42< VurtualRuler98> Left 4 dead is simple with one zombie.
20110103 21:14:46< joo> By any estimation.
20110103 21:14:50< VurtualRuler98> DF is simple with a 3x3 setup too
20110103 21:15:13< ancestral> Bingo is simple with a 3x3 setup
20110103 21:15:24< ancestral> I suppose it'd be B'go
20110103 21:15:39< VurtualRuler98> 1 square
20110103 21:15:42< joo> Bingo is always simple
20110103 21:15:45< ancestral> or b'no
20110103 21:15:57< VurtualRuler98> Place your start-thingy now
20110103 21:15:57< ancestral> 1 square, which is the free space
20110103 21:16:01< VurtualRuler98> B!
20110103 21:16:27< ancestral> Bingo is absolutely 0 skill and all luck
20110103 21:16:31< joo> It hardly even qualifies as a game.
20110103 21:16:35< ancestral> The only skill is listening and motor skills
20110103 21:16:57< ancestral> Tic-tac-toe is pretty simple, and totally dead
20110103 21:17:04< ancestral> It's been completely solved
20110103 21:17:15< joo> Not 19×19 tic tac toe
20110103 21:17:16< ancestral> Hint: Go first
20110103 21:17:25< ancestral> 19 x 19? I have never tried
20110103 21:17:50< joo> In fact, there's a similar variant of God..
20110103 21:17:55< joo> *Go
20110103 21:18:05< ancestral> 5 in a row
20110103 21:18:06< ancestral> Ya
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20110103 21:18:11< joo> Where one has to form an unbroken vertical or horizontal line
20110103 21:18:45< joo> Across the whole board
20110103 21:18:51< joo> ..which is also reminiscent of Tetris
20110103 21:18:52< joo> Somewhat
20110103 21:19:08< joo> http://chesstris.com/2007/10/03/play-go-tetris-10/#more-52
20110103 21:19:11< joo> It's all connected
20110103 21:20:31< ancestral> Haha
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20110103 21:37:56< ancestral> keb: The other option is to use the recall list
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20110103 21:40:40< keb> yep thats good for one time upgrades
20110103 21:40:52< keb> or events?
20110103 21:41:05< VurtualRuler98> I can't name many good games with upgrades.
20110103 21:41:05 * keb recalls door#2
20110103 21:41:11< VurtualRuler98> CIV games with promotions, I guess.
20110103 21:41:14< VurtualRuler98> and Starcraft.
20110103 21:41:33< VurtualRuler98> just having nightmares about what they did to Total Annihilation
20110103 21:41:55< keb> did you get annihiliated
20110103 21:42:04< VurtualRuler98> supcom happened
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20110103 22:12:19< joo> VurtualRuler98, what do you mean by upgrades?
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20110103 22:24:54< VurtualRuler98> upgrades that apply to units
20110103 22:24:59< VurtualRuler98> Like, oh hey all your tanks now shoot hats
20110103 22:25:29< VurtualRuler98> That attack the unit wearing them
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20110103 22:31:23< [Relic]> Hello :)
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--- Log closed Tue Jan 04 00:00:23 2011