--- Log opened Tue Jan 11 00:00:09 2011
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20110111 01:08:24< Dark_Warnig> somebody can answer me if it's possible to update my wesnoth without downloading the newest version? i mean.. i have 1.8.4 and want update to 1.8.5. theres other way to get 1.8.5 updating? or only downloading it all?
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20110111 01:09:53< Gambit> Dark_Warnig: Sorry no. A full redownload and reinstall will be required.
20110111 01:10:04< Dark_Warnig> ´¦` hm.. ´¦`
20110111 01:10:24< Dark_Warnig> maybe it's a good idea make a updater :P
20110111 01:10:30< dipseydoodle> No.
20110111 01:10:37< Dark_Warnig> why not?
20110111 01:10:42< ancestral> There have been attempta
20110111 01:10:44< ancestral> *s
20110111 01:11:01< ancestral> There may be a plan for an in-app updater
20110111 01:11:18< ancestral> Actually could be a good GSoC project, maybe
20110111 01:11:30< dipseydoodle> Then again... This could be true.
20110111 01:11:38< dipseydoodle> ;P
20110111 01:11:45< Dark_Warnig> yeah.. how can i suggest it for developers?
20110111 01:11:45< dipseydoodle> Forget what I said.
20110111 01:11:46< ancestral> But, easier said than done
20110111 01:11:58< dipseydoodle> Forums, if you dare...
20110111 01:11:58< ancestral> I think it's already been suggested
20110111 01:12:06< dipseydoodle> Ok.\
20110111 01:12:19< ancestral> Dark_Warnig: Do you know any C++?
20110111 01:12:24< ancestral> Or not a programmer?
20110111 01:12:43< Dark_Warnig> ancestral, i know just a little bit.. i stoped wiht programing a time ago..
20110111 01:12:51< Dark_Warnig> with*
20110111 01:13:03< dipseydoodle> Actually,
20110111 01:13:03< Dark_Warnig> ´¦` i changed my area ´¦`
20110111 01:13:10< Dark_Warnig> sry for the collors
20110111 01:13:53< Dark_Warnig> ancestral, and u?
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20110111 01:14:11< dipseydoodle> accestral: I'm goinng to do some scripting real quick. I'll see if I can't throw something together in AppleScript.
20110111 01:14:17< ancestral> I do, but I'm rusty, and haven't contributed anything
20110111 01:14:39< Gambit> Dark_Warnig: don't bother posting it on the forums please
20110111 01:14:49< Gambit> You are not the first to have this idea.
20110111 01:14:55< ancestral> dipseydoodle: I ♥ AppleScript!
20110111 01:14:56< Gambit> It's only waiting on someone who feels like coding it.
20110111 01:15:16< dipseydoodle> ancestral: Really, good.
20110111 01:15:18< dipseydoodle> ?
20110111 01:15:20< Dark_Warnig> Gambit, i wont =)
20110111 01:15:46< dipseydoodle> Now for my to figure out a appropriate command. 
20110111 01:15:54< ancestral> Between AppleScript, JavaScript and Perl I'm more of a scripter than a straight-up programmer
20110111 01:16:13< Dark_Warnig> well... i think 200mb it's a small size if you have a good connections... but other contries sometime have low connection =(
20110111 01:16:28< Gambit> Dark_Warnig: What operating system are you on?
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20110111 01:16:39< dipseydoodle> As am I.
20110111 01:16:47< Dark_Warnig> Gambit, now i'm at windows.. but i have slackware here.
20110111 01:16:55< dipseydoodle> Oh cool
20110111 01:16:56< Gambit> You might try SVN
20110111 01:17:27< Gambit> It cuts downloading, but depending on your processor it may waste more of your time compiling.
20110111 01:17:48< Gambit> But I think I heard that there won't be another stable release after 1.8.5
20110111 01:17:52< Gambit> Until 1.10 comes out.
20110111 01:18:26< Dark_Warnig> hm...
20110111 01:18:33< ancestral> 1.A
20110111 01:18:35< Gambit> So this should be your last upgrade until then.
20110111 01:18:39< ancestral> Get it straight
20110111 01:18:41< ancestral> :-P
20110111 01:18:45< Gambit> Heh.
20110111 01:18:46< Dark_Warnig> ok guys.. thanks for the answers.. cya
20110111 01:18:52< Gambit> Bye.
20110111 01:19:06-!- Dark_Warnig [~asdasda@200.164.174.243] has quit [Quit: Ai MÃE Ja Estou Saindo Da Net, Pow MÃE Calma Já Estou Saindo. MÃE.. MAE CALMA MAE ... NAO MAE Aquele FIO Não!!! Nao MAE ... MAEEEEE (Conection Reset by MAE) []]
20110111 01:20:09< Gambit> janebot: !translate Ai MÃE Ja Estou Saindo Da Net, Pow MÃE Calma Já Estou Saindo. MÃE.. MAE CALMA MAE ... NAO MAE Aquele FIO Não!!! Nao MAE ... MAEEEEE
20110111 01:20:14< janebot> Gambit: pt to en: Ai Ja MOTHER I&#39;m leaving the Net, Pow MOTHER Calm&#39;m leaving. MOTHER .. MAE MAE CALM ... MAE NO WIRE Not That! Not MAE ... MAEEEEE
20110111 01:20:31< Gambit> Okay then...
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20110111 01:21:36< Gambit> I wish perl 5.10.1 came with a HTML entities module.
20110111 01:22:22< ancestral> would be nice
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20110111 01:22:49< Gambit> There is one I could download but then the bot wouldn't work "out of the box".
20110111 01:24:37< ancestral> You could write some code and put it in yourslef
20110111 01:25:21< dipseydoodle> Alright. It's gonna need safari, I have the first line of code down right now. And it'l only be for mac users right now.
20110111 01:27:12< dipseydoodle> ancestral: I wasn't expecting my topic to turn into to what it is.
20110111 01:27:16< dipseydoodle> :(
20110111 01:27:28< dipseydoodle> Have you seen it recently?
20110111 01:27:32< ancestral> Topic?
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20110111 01:27:55< dipseydoodle> The Youtube Wesnoth Review.
20110111 01:28:04< ancestral> ah yes
20110111 01:28:50< Gambit> dipseydoodle: What are you making?
20110111 01:29:59< ancestral> Yeah I kept reiterating, look
20110111 01:29:59< dipseydoodle> What?
20110111 01:30:20< ancestral> This is a decently produced review. They reviewed us. That's kinda cool. And it was favorable.
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20110111 01:31:03< dipseydoodle> Gambit: I posted a thing on a review done a while back. Unless, of corse your talking about the Wesnoth Updater for Mac.
20110111 01:31:19< Gambit> You're going to make a Wesnoth updater... with applescript?
20110111 01:31:30< Gambit> I don't think you understand what that entails.
20110111 01:31:34< dipseydoodle> ancestral: Yes. It's what I just said.
20110111 01:31:47< dipseydoodle> Gambit: It's just for mac right now, yes.
20110111 01:32:03< Gambit> But an updater must only download updated parts.
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20110111 01:32:11< Gambit> I.e. not the entire program.
20110111 01:32:19< ancestral> dipseydoodle: Did you see my attempts at making an updater?
20110111 01:32:25< dipseydoodle> No.
20110111 01:32:42< dipseydoodle> Gambit: It will.
20110111 01:32:53< dipseydoodle> ancestral: You did though?
20110111 01:32:59< Gambit> Ambitious.
20110111 01:33:01< ancestral> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25512&p=359013&hilit=mac+updater#p359013
20110111 01:33:30< ancestral> Trouble is I need a good binary diff implementation
20110111 01:33:49< dipseydoodle> I can do the package making if need be.
20110111 01:33:54< dipseydoodle> I think.
20110111 01:34:02< dipseydoodle> Forget my attempt then.
20110111 01:34:02< ancestral> Maybe you can do better than I tried
20110111 01:34:07< dipseydoodle> K
20110111 01:34:42< dipseydoodle> Then I'll use java or python, not applescript.
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20110111 01:36:29< dipseydoodle> Yeah, I'll use java.
20110111 01:36:40< dipseydoodle> Since it's included in Xcode.
20110111 01:37:42< dipseydoodle> Maybe a dashboard tool for mac and the a java applet for windows?
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20110111 01:39:12< ancestral> dipseydoodle: How do you plan on patching/updating binary files?
20110111 01:39:19< dipseydoodle> :/
20110111 01:39:32< dipseydoodle> Not sure really.
20110111 01:40:03< dipseydoodle> I'm sure Objective C can handle it.
20110111 01:40:10< ancestral> How I approached it initially was to just suck it up and download the binaries
20110111 01:40:24< ancestral> But not a ton of savings then
20110111 01:40:37< dipseydoodle> I'd make it so it wipes the old wesnoth and just installs a brand new one.
20110111 01:42:09< ancestral> Oh, so you're just working on having it download Wesnoth automatically
20110111 01:42:12< ancestral> new versions
20110111 01:42:52< ancestral> Or you still are planning on the updating part?
20110111 01:43:18< dipseydoodle> Yes and yes..
20110111 01:43:25< dipseydoodle> I'll try both then.
20110111 01:43:39< dipseydoodle> It shouldn't be to hard :p
20110111 01:44:32< ancestral> Cool
20110111 01:47:23< dipseydoodle> I don't know... Objective C dosen't seem worthy enough.
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20110111 01:51:12< ancestral> Alright, time to finish Bestiary
20110111 01:51:24< ancestral> I had a fully PHP version, but I'm going back to JavaScript
20110111 01:55:29< ancestral> What's a good unit with lots of attacks?
20110111 01:55:32< ancestral> Dwarvish Lord?
20110111 01:56:04< joo> Deathblade?
20110111 01:56:13< joo> What exactly do you mean by "good"?
20110111 01:57:36< ancestral> Really any
20110111 01:57:39< Gambit> It must have a cape.
20110111 01:57:41< ancestral> But a D'Lord works fine
20110111 01:57:42< ancestral> Haha
20110111 01:57:49< ancestral> Gambit: So true!
20110111 01:57:52< joo> Also Elvish Champion
20110111 01:58:11< ancestral> I should have been specific. Different types of attacks. But thank you.
20110111 01:58:18< joo> Oh
20110111 01:59:05< joo> Yeah, DL is the best I can think of in that category
20110111 02:01:05< joo> Also Lich
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20110111 02:08:51< dipseydoodle> ancestral: I start my coding tommorow then.
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20110111 07:05:52< bp0> what is the equivalent of alt-tab in linux?
20110111 07:05:59< VurtualRuler98> alt+tab
20110111 07:06:00< bp0> to switch away from wesnoth
20110111 07:06:08< bp0> doesnt work in wesnoth
20110111 07:06:22< shadowmaster> if you are on fullscreen mode, it will not
20110111 07:06:33< VurtualRuler98> I think I got it to work by starting in windowed mode
20110111 07:06:36< VurtualRuler98> then manually fullscreening it.
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20110111 07:06:53< shadowmaster> you can switch between fullscreen and windowed mode with CTRL-F too btw
20110111 07:06:55< VurtualRuler98> It also gave me audio control!
20110111 07:07:02< Dylan_Hsu> thats garbage why cant you switch tabs
20110111 07:07:24< bp0> so there is no way to switch in fullscreen?
20110111 07:07:33< Dylan_Hsu> bp0: use windows perhaps
20110111 07:07:35< shadowmaster> it really depends on your window manager
20110111 07:07:42-!- mode/#wesnoth [+q *!*@unaffiliated/dylan-hsu/x-9213543] by ChanServ
20110111 07:07:51< VurtualRuler98> hehehe
20110111 07:07:56< bp0> gnome
20110111 07:07:57< VurtualRuler98> No, obviously, haiku.
20110111 07:08:22< bp0> so gnome is the reason it doesn't work fullscreen?
20110111 07:08:30< VurtualRuler98> Or an abacus. Abacus wesnoth is really alt-tab-friendly.
20110111 07:08:42< shadowmaster> bp0: nah, it's the same with KDE's.
20110111 07:09:22< bp0> so, it is a bug then right?
20110111 07:09:31< shadowmaster> defintely not ours!
20110111 07:09:49< VurtualRuler98> Alt-tab works fine here on ubuntu with gnome.
20110111 07:09:56< bp0> in fullscreen?
20110111 07:10:06< VurtualRuler98> yeah
20110111 07:10:12< VurtualRuler98> By starting windowed and then fullscrening.
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20110111 07:10:46< bp0> hmm not for me
20110111 07:12:36< bp0> also, while i'm here griping, the intermission/briefing/speaking text should be the same size at all resolutions
20110111 07:12:43< bp0> not pixel based
20110111 07:12:48< bp0> so small at hi res
20110111 07:12:59< bp0> need magnifying glass
20110111 07:13:19< shadowmaster> I'm not sure whether you mean the story screen or the in-game message dialogs font.
20110111 07:13:30< shadowmaster> in both cases the font size *is* constant though.
20110111 07:13:57< shadowmaster> oh wait, I got it :D
20110111 07:13:58< bp0> well, whatever the opposite of that is then
20110111 07:14:05< bp0> proportional maybe
20110111 07:14:12< bp0> same number of words wide at any res
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20110111 07:17:03< shadowmaster> reminds me I'd love to own a larger screen.
20110111 07:17:19< shadowmaster> 1280px horizontal res seems to be the new 800px.
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20110111 07:20:17< bp0> yeah
20110111 07:20:22< bp0> true
20110111 07:20:52< bp0> is that gold tile frame new
20110111 07:20:58< bp0> its been a while since i played this
20110111 07:21:08< bp0> not a fan of that either
20110111 07:21:23< bp0> i think it used to be just a highlight of the tile
20110111 07:21:28< bp0> more subtle
20110111 07:21:31< shadowmaster> yeah, that's a 1.9.x change
20110111 07:21:48< bp0> its too strong or something
20110111 07:21:55< shadowmaster> but one of our artists apparently thought the original was dangerously subtle
20110111 07:22:12< bp0> like its on top of the world, you look through it
20110111 07:22:21< bp0> takes you out of the world, imo
20110111 07:22:38< bp0> is there an option to turn it back?
20110111 07:23:50< bp0> the most important part of every new UI feature is the ability to turn it off
20110111 07:23:55< bp0> I wish ubuntu would learn that
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20110111 07:31:31< ancestral> Piecing things back together
20110111 07:31:34< ancestral> http://mproud.com/wesnoth/bestiary/#Ancient_Lich
20110111 07:32:08< ancestral> http://mproud.com/wesnoth/bestiary/#Grand_Marshal etc.
20110111 07:32:29< ancestral> I need to split up the JSON files though (currently it's a 3.5 MB download)
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20110111 07:34:13< ancestral> bp0: You can always replace the image file
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20110111 07:49:18< bp0> i suppose
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20110111 10:41:54< Ivanovic> moin
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20110111 14:44:54< neila> hi wesnothians
20110111 14:45:39< neila> i'm again trying myself in WML, and like always im having problems to get what i want
20110111 14:46:06< neila> now im trying to have units never gain XP
20110111 14:46:36< neila> my approach was to set expirience to 0 in "attack_end" 
20110111 14:47:09< neila> with the result that previous xp is resettet, but the unit still gets the xp of that fight
20110111 14:47:23< neila> same with the die event for unit 2
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20110111 15:21:07< Gambit> neila: attack_end must occur after the fighting is done, but before rewards are given out
20110111 15:22:01< Gambit> You'll have to combine that with new turn event that stores all units that [not]experience=0[/not] and {FOREACH one} takes their experience.
20110111 15:22:59< neila> so there is no event after rewards ?
20110111 15:23:28< Gambit> Apparently not.
20110111 15:23:45< Gambit> I could try to add one but it wouldn't be in until 1.9.4 at the earliest :)
20110111 15:24:13< neila> :)
20110111 15:24:24< neila> other question, can xp be negative ?
20110111 15:24:30< Gambit> I think so.
20110111 15:24:32< Gambit> HP can.
20110111 15:24:52< neila> so if i would set it to -8 fi .. the result would be 0 after reward ?
20110111 15:24:52< Gambit> in fact
20110111 15:25:07< Gambit> neila: setting everyone's max_experience to 0 or -5 might prevent them from ever leveling
20110111 15:26:02< Gambit> might
20110111 15:26:15< Gambit> And if it does it's a bug, but exploiting bugs to make campaigns work is fun :D
20110111 15:26:17< neila> oh max_xp.. = 0 will not level on >0 xp ?
20110111 15:27:08< Gambit> No actually I don't think that'd work.
20110111 15:27:17< Gambit> But yes giving them -8 should do the trick you want.
20110111 15:28:07< zookeeper> you can decrease their xp in an attack_end event by the amount they'd gain from the fight. i'm not sure if that'd occur before or after leveling, though.
20110111 15:28:17< neila> is there maybe a macro somewhere that calculates how much xp you get for killing a unit ?
20110111 15:28:42< neila> since the x*8 or 4 if x=0 is not so nice to code
20110111 15:29:41< neila> but i will get that
20110111 15:29:46< neila> another question
20110111 15:30:22< neila> how can i make an AI that controls a certain side just do nothing
20110111 15:30:32< neila> so it will react faster ?
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20110111 15:59:17< neila> ok figured that out .. but now i need an expert :)
20110111 15:59:31< neila> in the wiki it says that
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20110111 15:59:57< neila> $unit and $secondary_unit are setteted inside events
20110111 16:00:07< neila> but for me it seems thats not true
20110111 16:00:15< neila> fi in an die event
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20110111 16:06:16< Gambit> neila: I believe that in a die event $unit should no longer exist
20110111 16:06:24< Gambit> but $secondary_unit might
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20110111 16:06:34< Gambit> neila: if you need both units try last_breath instead
20110111 16:06:55< zookeeper> there's no $secondary_unit, it's $second_unit
20110111 16:07:43< neila> yeah was using that before . i mean second .. just mistyped it here
20110111 16:08:40< zookeeper> anyway i have little idea what the problem is. if you don't know why some event doesn't work right, pastebin it.
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20110111 16:11:30< neila> buttrying again with last_breath atm
20110111 16:11:58< neila> thats the code now:    http://pastebin.com/aR2DCs2h
20110111 16:12:54< neila> oh .. incl. the macro    http://pastebin.com/vxu4aAaa
20110111 16:13:44< zookeeper> umm...
20110111 16:13:54< zookeeper> you're missing a lot of {}'s
20110111 16:14:27< zookeeper> when you're using a macro parameter named LEVEL, you do it with {LEVEL}, not LEVEL
20110111 16:14:44< neila> oh :)
20110111 16:14:45< zookeeper> so {VARIABLE VAR LEVEL} should be {VARIABLE {VAR} {LEVEL}} and so on
20110111 16:14:58< neila> damn thanks alot
20110111 16:16:27< zookeeper> also you need nothing after #enddef. don't put the macro name there. just #enddef<endofline>
20110111 16:16:49< zookeeper> i presume you got that from SlowThinker who's the first one i've ever seen to use that, and i bet he pulled it out of thin air.
20110111 16:17:07< neila> yes i copied it from Slow
20110111 16:17:22< neila> i assumed # is a comment and thought
20110111 16:17:27< neila> ok might be usefull
20110111 16:17:56< neila> but actualy it might just confuse things more than help
20110111 16:17:57< zookeeper> well, sure if you feel the need to use comments like that then i guess it doesn't hurt.
20110111 16:18:26< neila> specialy if copy pasted stuff is not changed correct
20110111 16:18:59< zookeeper> i'd certainly not recommend using those since they are pretty confusing
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20110111 16:21:29< neila> now it works more less, but somethings strange here
20110111 16:22:01< neila> if a lev0 is killed, the enemie get 4xp after .. but i thought my code would result in 0 xp
20110111 16:22:44< neila> and i cant explain that atm
20110111 16:22:57< zookeeper> you sure you got the CONDITION macro defined somewhere and that it's working right?
20110111 16:24:30< neila> i was using it before .. i expect it is from SLow :)
20110111 16:24:52< zookeeper> just write it out as [variable] tags if in doubt
20110111 16:25:30< zookeeper> well, in any case you're also calling it wrong
20110111 16:25:44< zookeeper> $unit.level isn't a name of a variable, it's 0 or 1 or 2 etc
20110111 16:25:49< neila> yeah i got my mistake
20110111 16:25:53< zookeeper> so try it without the dollar sign
20110111 16:26:01< neila> yes that was the mistake
20110111 16:26:15< neila> so in the other cases i would have to change my macro than
20110111 16:26:26< neila> can i say ${LEVEL} =
20110111 16:26:31< neila> *?
20110111 16:26:46< zookeeper> sure, if {LEVEL} expands to a valid variable name
20110111 16:26:48< zookeeper> err
20110111 16:26:49< zookeeper> wait
20110111 16:27:10< zookeeper> no, you can never use dollar signs on the left side of a =
20110111 16:27:49< zookeeper> if you're asking whether you can set a variable which's name you have in another variable, then yes
20110111 16:28:10< neila> the "=" was a type was supposed to be a "?"
20110111 16:29:18< zookeeper> oh, right, of course. sure, variable substitution doesn't have anything to do with macro expansion.
20110111 16:29:50< zookeeper> you could even do {DOLLARSIGN}{LEVEL} assuming that DOLLARSIGN expands to a $
20110111 16:30:02< zookeeper> or pretty much anything else you can think of.
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20110111 16:32:54< neila> thanks alot .. finally all seems to work as intended
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20110111 18:11:15< vultraz> when will wesnoth 1.10 be out?
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20110111 18:15:00< Gambit> vultraz: Before Duke Nukem Fo — oh wait we can't say that anymore :(
20110111 18:19:39< Mussious> vultraz, I've heard tahat in 5 months
20110111 18:19:59< Mussious> that*
20110111 18:20:03< vultraz> good
20110111 18:20:34< vultraz> i like the new 1.9 features, and i want them to be stable sp everyone will migrate to them
20110111 18:20:38< vultraz> so*
20110111 18:21:07< Mussious> When 2.0 will be out, that is the question :)
20110111 18:21:24< Unnheulu> I heard in 1000 years =]
20110111 18:21:32< Unnheulu> *If your lucky
20110111 18:21:36< Gambit> Mussious: While that would fit the usual timeframe, there are rather different circumstances this time
20110111 18:21:51< vultraz> and i want to be able to use the UMC eclipse plugin and be able to let others use what i created
20110111 18:22:00< vultraz> ooooo 2.0
20110111 18:22:10< Unnheulu> vultraz, doesn't that work with 1.8?
20110111 18:22:15< Gambit> There's a lot of unfinished things before we can even move into feature freeze and release candidate mode
20110111 18:22:22< vultraz> no sure
20110111 18:22:28< vultraz> im trying to get it to
20110111 18:22:41< vultraz> im on mac os 10.5
20110111 18:22:53< Unnheulu> s/work/work without editing the source code/
20110111 18:23:04< vultraz> and i dont know what to do next (already downloaded)
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20110111 18:23:14< vultraz> i got the standalone version
20110111 18:24:03< Gambit> On a side note, man I can't believe it's that time of the year already again.
20110111 18:24:17< Gambit> Where on earth did 2010 go?
20110111 18:24:30< Unnheulu> ircllogs.wesnoth.org/2010/?
20110111 18:24:40< Unnheulu> s/ircllogs/irclogs/
20110111 18:26:03< vultraz> but how do i make the UMC plugin work
20110111 18:26:49< vultraz> i have a macosx.cocca.x86 folder in downloads
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20110111 18:27:54< vultraz> clicking the application in the folder shows a small wesnoth screen for a moment and then it closes
20110111 18:28:06< vultraz> i guess i have to do something, but what
20110111 18:28:30< Unnheulu> Ask someone who uses Mac? ;)
20110111 18:28:48< vultraz> who uses mac here
20110111 18:29:26< vultraz> humm the contents/resources folder is empty
20110111 18:29:39< vultraz> maybe that has something to do with it
20110111 18:29:54< Unnheulu> Best bet would be to ask timotei when he's online
20110111 18:30:00< Unnheulu> Or ask on the forums
20110111 18:30:20< vultraz> he knows about Mac?
20110111 18:30:28< Gambit> He knows about the plugin.
20110111 18:30:33< Gambit> Being its sole author.
20110111 18:30:35< Unnheulu> He coded the plugin
20110111 18:30:56< vultraz> :O
20110111 18:31:11< vultraz> ok ill keep an eye out for him
20110111 18:31:28< vultraz> but i think it siad somewhere i needed 1.9, so im downloading that
20110111 18:31:32< vultraz> said*
20110111 18:31:41< vultraz> then i'll see
20110111 18:31:51< Unnheulu> Aren't Eclipse plugins fussy about the version of Eclipse your using?
20110111 18:32:10< Unnheulu> I found that with Android, can't remember about the wesnoth one though
20110111 18:32:24< vultraz> i downloaded the standalone version
20110111 18:32:43< vultraz> because im not interested in eclipse
20110111 18:32:44< Unnheulu> Ah
20110111 18:32:58< vultraz> i just want the plugin
20110111 18:33:01< vultraz> ;)
20110111 18:33:40< Unnheulu> I has a solution
20110111 18:33:40< Unnheulu> http://www.nano-editor.org/
20110111 18:34:21< vultraz> and?
20110111 18:34:32< Unnheulu> Use instead of Eclipse :)
20110111 18:34:59< vultraz> i dont want anything else-just the plugin
20110111 18:35:02< vultraz> ;)
20110111 18:35:13< vultraz> so thanks anyway
20110111 18:35:25< Unnheulu> That's very closed minded of you, it always worked for me when doing subversion comments
20110111 18:35:35< vultraz> ill ask timotei when he's here
20110111 18:35:49< Unnheulu> Or editing fstab when I can't be bothered to do sudo mousepad
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20110111 18:36:12< vultraz> bye 
20110111 18:36:30< vultraz> see ya tomorrow :)
20110111 18:36:38< Unnheulu> Bai
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20110111 18:52:19< grzywacz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFKc7NfTabw&feature=rec-exp_fresh+div-1f-38-HM
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20110111 19:20:14< HosenJack> st
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20110111 21:29:29< Guest31337> shadowmaster shadowm_laptop: hey want to unquiet Dylan_Hsu ?
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20110111 21:29:45< shadowmaster> no, Dylan_Hsu 
20110111 21:29:57< shadowmaster> you've just denied yourself that possibility by resorting to ban evasion
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20110111 21:34:19< Aethaeryn> pwned
20110111 21:36:19< LightFighter> anyone knows why store_unit needs a filter tag?
20110111 21:36:44< shadowmaster> because it was designed that way? :)
20110111 21:37:05< Aethaeryn> What else would it use?
20110111 21:37:15< LightFighter> just a SUF
20110111 21:37:21< LightFighter> without the tag
20110111 21:37:28< shadowmaster> Reason #794 to not use WML: gram mar is not consistent.
20110111 21:37:33< shadowmaster> *grammar
20110111 21:38:04< Aethaeryn> Unfortunately, months of coding in Python makes WML look like BASIC. And not even VisualBasic, just plain ol' original BASIC. :-(
20110111 21:38:07< LightFighter> it isn't that hard to change it to be consistent with many other tags
20110111 21:38:40< Aethaeryn> LightFighter: It was probably designed for a different purpose, at a different time, and by a different person.
20110111 21:39:47< LightFighter> I'm trying to learn C now.
20110111 21:39:49< Aethaeryn> Everyone knows WML sucks, to some degree.
20110111 21:40:03-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: erl, knotwork, Vorpal, law_, MeccaGod
20110111 21:40:30< Aethaeryn> If someone were to clean up WML, it would be best done at the start of 1.11 since it'd break a lot of things.
20110111 21:40:33< Aethaeryn> LightFighter: I sure hope C isn't going to be your first language.
20110111 21:40:35< LightFighter> nope
20110111 21:40:45< Aethaeryn> Good.
20110111 21:40:46< Aethaeryn> I hate people who say, in advice places, to learn C first.
20110111 21:40:54< Aethaeryn> Python, Java, and even C++ (in order of difficulty) all make better choices.
20110111 21:41:48< LightFighter> C is much more useful for my current project
20110111 21:41:55< LightFighter> or maybe C++
20110111 21:42:02< Aethaeryn> Object oriented ftw.
20110111 21:42:09< Aethaeryn> There's a reason why I named Python, Java, and C++
20110111 21:42:21< Aethaeryn> They all have one big thing in common: object oriented programming
20110111 21:42:39< LightFighter> Depends, I'm trying to rewrite trackplacer as a mac application
20110111 21:42:40< Aethaeryn> It's the dominant modern paradigm, if not the best.
20110111 21:42:56-!- Netsplit over, joins: Vorpal, law_, knotwork, MeccaGod, erl
20110111 21:43:23< Aethaeryn> Why not Objective C?
20110111 21:43:23< Aethaeryn> It's a Mac thing
20110111 21:43:23< Aethaeryn> :P
20110111 21:43:47< LightFighter> It's all much betten than WML.
20110111 21:44:27< Aethaeryn> Code in Python for a few months. Then look at strict, non-Lua-enhanced WML for advanced stuff (like an RPG era or really fancy scenario or something)
20110111 21:44:52< Aethaeryn> The next step is to tear your eyes out because WML is that terrible. Long workarounds for a line or two of another language.
20110111 21:45:40< Aethaeryn> WML is good for basic scenarios, i.e. just interfacing with Wesnoth. The more complex the WML file, the better it is for it to be rewritten in Lua.
20110111 21:45:57< Unnheulu|Laptop> Aethaeryn, imho its hard to switch from python to other languages
20110111 21:45:59< Ivanovic> wml is a *markup language*
20110111 21:46:04-!- Unnheulu|Laptop is now known as Unnheulu
20110111 21:46:08< Ivanovic> which is meant for defining stuff and that's it
20110111 21:46:14< Ivanovic> "real" coding should be done using lua
20110111 21:46:18< Aethaeryn> Exactly.
20110111 21:46:31< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: Depends on how many languages you do.
20110111 21:46:37< Unnheulu> Mm?
20110111 21:46:37< LightFighter> I did an experiment coding ai in WML
20110111 21:46:59< Ivanovic> for AI coding there is the formula language, IIRC
20110111 21:47:18< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: Well, C/C++/Java/Perl and a few others are all extremely close in basic syntax.
20110111 21:47:18< LightFighter> I know, but it worked, kinda.
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20110111 21:47:36< Aethaeryn> But, other languages are wildly different than even those lumped together with Python.
20110111 21:47:47< Aethaeryn> So it depends on which language you do and how many you know.
20110111 21:48:03< Unnheulu> C++ is pretty different, and way more complex
20110111 21:48:27< Unnheulu> And if python is your first language, and your not expecting anything more complicated, it could scare you off for ages
20110111 21:48:59< Aethaeryn> Python *can* be unreadable.
20110111 21:49:01< Aethaeryn> Depends on what you do.
20110111 21:49:06< Aethaeryn> List comprehensions for instance :P
20110111 21:49:10< Unnheulu> True, looking at some of my stuff :)
20110111 21:49:40< Aethaeryn> I don't recommend sticking to one language.
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20110111 21:49:45< Unnheulu> But to an outsider, is C++ any much better?
20110111 21:49:51< Aethaeryn> You understand the general paradigms behind programming by doing a lot.
20110111 21:50:33< Aethaeryn> For instance, I know XML, HTML, WML, the other WML (the Wikipedia one; mostly just HTML/CSS, tbh), and LaTeX when it comes to markup languages.
20110111 21:51:15< Ivanovic> just have a look at "99 bottles of beer"
20110111 21:51:17< Aethaeryn> If you limit yourself to a favorite, you're hurting yourself.
20110111 21:51:35< Ivanovic> a really cool sites, where this "song" is implemented in various programming languages
20110111 21:51:59< Ivanovic> when looking at different versions you will notice that many look rather similar from the basic concepts used
20110111 21:52:08< Unnheulu> I do the majority of my programming in python, granted, but that's just because I'm so bad at other stuff at the moment that I can't achieve the same thing
20110111 21:52:44< Ivanovic> coding (in general working on *anything*) is often a question of finding the right tool for a task
20110111 21:53:26< Ivanovic> when knowing how to (basically!) use various tools, you might find easier solutions for a given task
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20110111 21:53:46< Aethaeryn> I like Python, it's a sexy language, but I know its limitations, mainly being less efficient because it's an interpreted language.
20110111 21:54:04< Aethaeryn> I also realize that as my formal education progresses, I'll have to do a ton of Java stuff.
20110111 21:54:33< shadowmaster> Hi. This is a reminder for the present forumers to choose their passwords carefully and change them every once in a while.
20110111 21:54:34< Ivanovic> but, uhm, java is not this much more efficient
20110111 21:54:37< Unnheulu> (Note, I've hardly done anything in SDL), I haven't noticed a lot of difference in speed using pygame/python and sdl/c++
20110111 21:55:06< Ivanovic> Unnheulu: with modern days computers the difference is tiny
20110111 21:55:07< Unnheulu> shadowmaster, been a spate of hackings? :P
20110111 21:55:08< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: It's more like, 80% of classes use Java and 10% use C or C++
20110111 21:55:21< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: It's more just about my university's preferences
20110111 21:55:44< Ivanovic> it gets a lot more interesting when going in the direction of special use cases like eg embedded systems (including modbile devices like (lower end) phones)
20110111 21:55:51< shadowmaster> Unnheulu: we have reasons to suspect that forums.wesnoth.org is the target of an ongoing brute-forcing attempt right now.
20110111 21:55:59< Unnheulu> Ahh shoot
20110111 21:56:09< Unnheulu> My account'll be the first to go
20110111 21:56:27< Unnheulu> I haven't changed my password since I signed up, and back then I never cared about how secure stuff was
20110111 21:56:33< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: it does not just depend on the university itself, but the different areas you take
20110111 21:57:03< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: eg you will basically see close to no java when looking at the embeded system chair
20110111 21:57:58< Aethaeryn> Well, I'm talking about undergrad
20110111 21:58:02< Aethaeryn> Before you really specialize much
20110111 21:58:04< Ivanovic> the same when looking at compiler related areas (there it will likely be a functional language that they love most plus something like C into which the functional lang is translated)
20110111 21:58:07< Aethaeryn> There's not many electives.
20110111 21:58:22< Ivanovic> yeah, that is normal, because undergrad teaches basic concepts and for those java is fine
20110111 21:58:27< Aethaeryn> At my uni, it's more like choose which 1-2 classes not to take, not choose from a broad field.
20110111 21:59:07< Unnheulu> Hmm, I had changed my password since then, meh
20110111 21:59:38< Aethaeryn> damn it
20110111 21:59:47< Aethaeryn> time to think of another 15 character password
20110111 21:59:50< Aethaeryn> :/
20110111 22:00:21< Aethaeryn> I have a good memory for patterns, as long as it's only one I can think personally and not something someone can guess, long passwords are no problem.
20110111 22:00:34< Aethaeryn> Long, secure passwords.
20110111 22:00:55< Unnheulu> Scanning bookcases in ones house usually helps me
20110111 22:01:02< Aethaeryn> i.e. a pattern that can't be noticed as a pattern
20110111 22:01:31< Unnheulu> Then randomising a random book name, and switching stuff round -- usually looks pretty random
20110111 22:01:37< Aethaeryn> eh
20110111 22:01:56< Aethaeryn> More like a number sequence surrounded by capital and lower case letters of some significance with punctuation thrown in too
20110111 22:02:02< Unnheulu> Bah
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20110111 22:02:29< Aethaeryn> Maybe there's some tricks that could get you to remember !A43y32!!5572aybm or something like that
20110111 22:02:46< Aethaeryn> Much more secure than including a word or excluding punctuation/capital-letters
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20110111 22:02:59< Unnheulu> Take Terry Pratchets "Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents", take the initials, TPAMahER, and change letters to numbers/punctuation
20110111 22:03:10< Aethaeryn> (1) too short
20110111 22:03:14< Aethaeryn> (2) not enough numbers
20110111 22:03:30< Aethaeryn> seriously, just tag a sequence to the end like 248163264 to increase the length
20110111 22:03:35< Unnheulu> So 7pAm&H3R
20110111 22:03:50< Aethaeryn> 7pAm&H3R248163264 is more secure :P
20110111 22:03:54< Unnheulu> Too short? Man, how long should it be? :P
20110111 22:04:18< Aethaeryn> 10-16 I'd say
20110111 22:04:23 * Unnheulu whistles
20110111 22:04:23< Aethaeryn> The shorter it is, the easier it is to brute force.
20110111 22:04:32< Unnheulu> I always got told 6 was sufficient :D
20110111 22:04:40< Aethaeryn> pssh
20110111 22:04:46< Aethaeryn> Most places don't even let you use 6 anymore.
20110111 22:04:51< Unnheulu> Can't the passwords use any unicode characters?
20110111 22:04:55< Unnheulu> Wesnoth forums do^^
20110111 22:05:00< Aethaeryn> right
20110111 22:05:06< Aethaeryn> I have a Greek keyboard I switch to with the Windows key
20110111 22:05:13< Unnheulu> In my school some teachers have 2 letter passwords
20110111 22:05:17< Aethaeryn> so I could technically throw in π or something
20110111 22:05:28< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: That's called being stupid. Words don't work either
20110111 22:05:40< Unnheulu> If its unicode, thats thousands and thousands of combinations for 6 letters
20110111 22:05:45< Unnheulu> Cba to do the maths
20110111 22:05:51< Aethaeryn> right
20110111 22:06:02< Aethaeryn> but append a sequence to the beginning, middle, or end
20110111 22:06:10< Unnheulu> And its even more I guess
20110111 22:06:11< Aethaeryn> so that you basically get free extra spacing
20110111 22:06:26< Aethaeryn> maybe zyxwvut to the end of a secure password just to prevent bruteforcing
20110111 22:06:31< Unnheulu> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11998648
20110111 22:06:34< Aethaeryn> or 13579
20110111 22:06:57< Aethaeryn> so you get the best of both worlds, a secure password and a long password
20110111 22:07:12< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: Clearly you're uncreative or not mathematically inclined if you do 123456
20110111 22:07:21< Aethaeryn> Why not take 25 and double it?
20110111 22:07:23< Unnheulu> Hehe
20110111 22:07:25< Aethaeryn> 2550100200
20110111 22:07:34< Aethaeryn> and append it to a strong password
20110111 22:07:44< Aethaeryn> You go from 8 to 18
20110111 22:08:01< LightFighter> i once used a guitar riff as a password
20110111 22:08:05< Aethaeryn> or maybe skip every few letters in the alphabet and alternate capital and lower case
20110111 22:08:29< Aethaeryn> AcEgI+generated_another_way+number-sequence
20110111 22:08:30< Aethaeryn> or something
20110111 22:09:13< Aethaeryn> The point is to use a combination of things that are only meaningful to you so that you get numbers, punctuation, capital/lower, etc. combined in a non-predictable way
20110111 22:09:17< Unnheulu> LightFighter, a guitarist who can read stave
20110111 22:09:20< Unnheulu> WOw
20110111 22:09:23< Aethaeryn> And a series of some sort adds real length to it with no effort
20110111 22:09:31< Aethaeryn> you don't even need to remember the whole thing, just the first number/letter
20110111 22:10:32< LightFighter> no-one expects a password like 000000000 indeed
20110111 22:10:34< Aethaeryn> 123456 isn't as strong as Bin!01248163264128256512, but they're actually equally easy to remember.
20110111 22:10:54< Gambit> Also... make sure you check your email before you change it.
20110111 22:11:03< Aethaeryn> And no, that's probably a bit too weak because the sequence should be broken with letters/symbols instead of appended to the end
20110111 22:11:07< Aethaeryn> to make it more secure
20110111 22:11:11< Unnheulu> LightFighter, but that would easily get cracked pretty fast
20110111 22:11:12< Gambit> Well I guess the email is part of the password changing form for that very reason.
20110111 22:11:42< Aethaeryn> Anyway, I'd design a very secure password here rather than use some fairly stupid examples of imo good concepts...
20110111 22:11:47< Aethaeryn> But then I wouldn't be able to use it myself.
20110111 22:12:07< LightFighter> Unnheulu: It does? Add some fake movement. I don't know anyone who would guess such a stupid password
20110111 22:12:09< Unnheulu> LightFighter, assuming you had a program that simply looped through the ascii characters appending one to the end (or whatever), thats a pretty easy password to break
20110111 22:12:22< Unnheulu> LightFighter, its only ascii code 48
20110111 22:12:36< Unnheulu> Actually, thats a thought, putting controller characters in a password
20110111 22:12:42< Unnheulu> Be pretty hard to type though
20110111 22:12:44< LightFighter> you won't save your password from professional hackers
20110111 22:13:07-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110111 22:13:10< Aethaeryn> Bιn!0124816A_ry3264128?
20110111 22:13:18< Aethaeryn> That would be a pretty decent password and not that hard to remember
20110111 22:13:23< Aethaeryn> Notice the ι.
20110111 22:13:33< Aethaeryn> Just make sure your keyboard can quickly type that unicode symbol before using it
20110111 22:13:42< Unnheulu> Yeah
20110111 22:13:54< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: But that's what I mean about including a sequence to it
20110111 22:13:54< Unnheulu> Otherwise its obvious if you spend like a second to do the one character
20110111 22:14:05< Aethaeryn> You more than double the lenth.
20110111 22:14:11< Aethaeryn> And only you will notice the pattern to the numbers.
20110111 22:14:27< Aethaeryn> Especially since numbers are so great because there's a near infinite amount of patterns you could memorize.
20110111 22:14:42< joo> lol, "near infinite"
20110111 22:14:43< Unnheulu> True
20110111 22:14:49< Aethaeryn> You can even take methods of generation (like doubling the previous number or fib's sequence) and use different starting numbers
20110111 22:14:49< LightFighter> use a random 10 letters
20110111 22:14:58< Aethaeryn> so 3, 6, 12, 24 instead of 2, 4, 8, 16
20110111 22:15:01< Unnheulu> 1234511121314152122232425
20110111 22:15:09< Gambit> Isn't there also a near infinite number of letter combinations :\
20110111 22:15:16< Gambit> infinite in both cases
20110111 22:15:17< Gambit> rawr
20110111 22:15:22< Unnheulu> Gambit, but not patterns
20110111 22:15:24< Aethaeryn> Gambit: The longer the password, the closer you approach infinity.
20110111 22:15:51< joo> "near infinite" is just a fancy way of saying "large"
20110111 22:15:52< Aethaeryn> But imo the first step in finding a human-memorable strong password is to notice a pattern and memorize it
20110111 22:16:15< Aethaeryn> joo: Actually, there is an infinite amount of number patterns. I can provide a mathematically inductive proof if you want.
20110111 22:16:24< Aethaeryn> But it's been a few months so I might be a bit rusty.
20110111 22:16:25< joo> ...
20110111 22:16:37< joo> Well if the length is unbounded, of coursw
20110111 22:16:49< Unnheulu> 1234 is the same pattern as 12345
20110111 22:16:52< LightFighter> ¨wBåoY∫√yTtM≈Qw will be hard to crack, I think
20110111 22:17:00< Unnheulu> And equally hard to memories
20110111 22:17:06< Unnheulu> *memorise
20110111 22:17:06< LightFighter> not really
20110111 22:17:15< Aethaeryn> LightFighter: if you can type it, go for it
20110111 22:17:16< LightFighter> just 10 minutes
20110111 22:17:16< Unnheulu> And not fast to type
20110111 22:17:27< Aethaeryn> if you only intend on accessing it from one computer
20110111 22:17:29< Aethaeryn> set up your keyboard
20110111 22:17:31< LightFighter> it is with an apple computer
20110111 22:17:34< Aethaeryn> so that you have an alternative keyboard layout
20110111 22:17:36< Aethaeryn> and just qwertyuiop
20110111 22:17:41< Unnheulu> :D
20110111 22:17:50< Aethaeryn> Just a layout you customized from a bunch of computer-selected random Unicode letters
20110111 22:18:06< Aethaeryn> Easiest password in the world, but almost impossible outside of your computer
20110111 22:18:07< Unnheulu> But then you have the same security issue to others accessing the computer
20110111 22:18:13< LightFighter> qwertyuiop would also be unexpected
20110111 22:18:23< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: 99.99999% of account break ins are over the Internet
20110111 22:18:25< Unnheulu> Hard in ssh's
20110111 22:18:49< LightFighter> anyone thought about pattern in keyboard layout
20110111 22:19:07< Unnheulu> I refuse to believe there is not more than 0.00001% of break-ins happening to school accounts
20110111 22:19:13< LightFighter> zsefvhuk.
20110111 22:19:23< Unnheulu> LightFighter, like qazwsxedc?
20110111 22:19:31< LightFighter> yeah
20110111 22:19:40< Unnheulu> Pain to type :D
20110111 22:19:41< LightFighter> seems random
20110111 22:19:45< Aethaeryn> LightFighter: but my point is that you can associate υαβ∫√%å_ to qwertyui
20110111 22:20:30< LightFighter> œ∑´®†¥¨^øπ
20110111 22:20:32< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: I meant non-shared computers, obviously.
20110111 22:20:52< Unnheulu> Makes more sense then
20110111 22:21:37< LightFighter> almost all people use personal passwords
20110111 22:21:39< Aethaeryn> In other words, if someone is breaking into my desktop's root account *in person*, they probably are facing me.
20110111 22:21:45< Aethaeryn> Considering how often I am at home.
20110111 22:21:57< Aethaeryn> So they've essentially started Jack Bauer-style torturing me to get my pw if I'm still alive
20110111 22:22:08< LightFighter> :p
20110111 22:22:30< Aethaeryn> If it's qwertyuiop *only* on a keyboard layout on my computer, then they're not going to guess it.
20110111 22:22:45< Aethaeryn> Of course, I won't do that because this chan is publically logged, but if this convo never happened they wouldn't guess it.
20110111 22:23:07< Aethaeryn> I could even disguise the layout with some clever steganography, call it "math symbols" or something.
20110111 22:23:14< Unnheulu> In a (for instance) financial environment, I'm not sure you'd be allowed to do something like that as a password
20110111 22:23:21< Unnheulu> Even if you aren't on a shared computer
20110111 22:23:23< LightFighter> my old password "i hope you will die" wouldn't work when they are torturing me...
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20110111 22:23:58< joo> At least use proper grammar, to increase its complexity
20110111 22:24:01< Aethaeryn> they'll never be able to guess my password, hunter2
20110111 22:24:04< joo> "I hope you will die!"
20110111 22:24:12< Aethaeryn> That does show up as *s to everyone else, right?
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20110111 22:24:27< LightFighter> nope
20110111 22:24:33< Aethaeryn> LightFighter: http://bash.org/?244321
20110111 22:24:38< Aethaeryn> clearly you haven't been on the Internet long enough
20110111 22:24:38< joo> XD
20110111 22:25:57< LightFighter> indeed not
20110111 22:26:18< Aethaeryn> I've seen that referenced on IRC, reddit, and (I think) slashdot before.
20110111 22:26:34< Aethaeryn> It's an old meme.
20110111 22:26:35< Unnheulu> I sometimes wonder if those conversations really happen
20110111 22:26:46< Unnheulu> bash is filled with the weirdest stuff
20110111 22:26:52< LightFighter> if anyone asked me 4 years ago what a linux was, I wouldn't know. :D
20110111 22:27:06< Aethaeryn> Linux is an even older meme.
20110111 22:27:18-!- rork [~quassel@ip4da9d28f.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #wesnoth
20110111 22:27:49< shadowmaster> A LINUX?!?
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20110111 22:28:35< PetePorty> lol
20110111 22:28:38< PetePorty> You made him cry...
20110111 22:29:01< Aethaeryn> I was looking for a funny image for "Linux" on Google image search.
20110111 22:29:08< Aethaeryn> Instead I found this near the top, maybe on the 2nd or 3rd page
20110111 22:29:10< Aethaeryn> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1113/wesnothkx8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.linux-masters.com/2009/08/top-25-linux-games.html&usg=__GGjUteDKfZn1uqYeICpZ9N1pXN4=&h=300&w=450&sz=141&hl=en&start=260&sig2=BZYDvGZo7d1IM7k5j1P6NA&zoom=1&tbnid=Lf-o3AqS75ZhJM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=162&ei=ecssTdbrGsGqlAe2qITbCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlinux%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D940%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:11%2C3583&itbs=1&iac
20110111 22:29:20< Aethaeryn> whoops
20110111 22:29:21< Aethaeryn> http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1113/wesnothkx8.jpg
20110111 22:29:25< Aethaeryn> ^ equally effective :P
20110111 22:29:54< Aethaeryn> oh, page 5 actually, it's just the new Google image search makes it really easy to scroll to the next page
20110111 22:30:04< PetePorty> Interesting...
20110111 22:30:31< Unnheulu> Is CoolDude a puppet account or anything?
20110111 22:30:45< shadowmaster> no.
20110111 22:30:53 * Unnheulu is surprised
20110111 22:31:09< Unnheulu> I was gonna blame you PetePorty, surely you must be bored of being sensible
20110111 22:31:28< PetePorty> ...
20110111 22:33:05-!- DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20110111 22:33:57< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: Clearly this CoolDude is a really cool dude. After all, who else would call themselves a "dude"?
20110111 22:34:21< Unnheulu> Indeed
20110111 22:36:23< Unnheulu> Reading the ideas thread reminds me I really ought to code a load/save dialogue for my game (in python :P)
20110111 22:38:13< Unnheulu> Wow, people still download my campaign skeleton and try to use it? Man.
20110111 22:38:37< Unnheulu> Makes me worry when I say in bold text that its for 1.4 >.>
20110111 22:39:57< joo> Unnheulu, nothing can be bolder and more distracting than human stupidity
20110111 22:40:09-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.174] has joined #wesnoth
20110111 22:40:19< Unnheulu> joo, hehe
20110111 22:40:44< Aethaeryn> 1.4 was a good year
20110111 22:40:52< Aethaeryn> Much better than 1.2
20110111 22:40:57< Aethaeryn> Makes 1.6 and 1.8 seem very incremental
20110111 22:41:13< vultraz> how to i install the UMC IDE standalone plugin?
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20110111 22:41:25< Unnheulu> Aethaeryn, indeed
20110111 22:41:37< Unnheulu> I was very excited when going to 1.3 from 1.2, but left during 1.5
20110111 22:41:50< Unnheulu> I was rather put out when I didn't see much visible improvements to 1.8
20110111 22:42:01< Unnheulu> I think the new campaigns helped^^
20110111 22:42:08< Aethaeryn> 1.3 was where it was all at in MP and UMC
20110111 22:42:12< Aethaeryn> only n00bs or people with slow internet used 1.2
20110111 22:42:26< shadowmaster> and newbies
20110111 22:42:29< Aethaeryn> [set_menu_item] just meant unheard of awesome things were new in 1.3
20110111 22:42:37< Unnheulu> Bai
20110111 22:42:40< Aethaeryn> 1.5 and 1.7 were rather unstable
20110111 22:42:43< Aethaeryn> especially the lobby in 1.7
20110111 22:42:46< Unnheulu> Hehe
20110111 22:42:47-!- Unnheulu [~ieuan@cpc1-pnth2-2-0-cust788.5-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20110111 22:43:01< Aethaeryn> And there was no UMC tradeoff to make it worthwhile
20110111 22:46:57< vultraz> i've downloaded the UMC plugin (standalone) version for mac and it won't run. why?
20110111 22:48:07< vultraz> it has an empty contents/resources folder, and all it does when im click on the icon is show a wesnoth logo for a moment and then close
20110111 22:48:41< vultraz> i have no java updates 
20110111 22:48:49< vultraz> whats going on?
20110111 22:49:35< shadowmaster> 3it might be potentially more productive to ask about that in the forums
20110111 22:50:08< vultraz> yes, but i need it to work now, and the forums take time
20110111 22:50:10< vultraz> ;)
20110111 22:50:19< vultraz> days, even
20110111 22:51:03< shadowmaster> well, nothing guarantees that any of the present people knows anything about the UMC IDE plugin.
20110111 22:51:51< vultraz> well, its worth a shot
20110111 22:52:37< vultraz> btw why is my cursor moving around even when im not touching it?
20110111 22:52:59-!- PetePorty [~Pete@pc-138-253-120-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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20110111 22:53:31< vultraz> touching the mouse, i mean
20110111 22:54:36< Aethaeryn> IDE for UMC? WML isn't that complex
20110111 22:54:53< vultraz> to noobs it is
20110111 22:55:05< Aethaeryn> Just copy and paste working things, especially mappacks.
20110111 22:55:14< Aethaeryn> Because mappacks are about as bare as you can get in WML
20110111 22:55:16< Aethaeryn> in general
20110111 22:55:39< Aethaeryn> same concept with frankensteining if you're bad at spriting at first
20110111 22:56:24< vultraz> thats not really my question. my question is is there something i need to do to make the UMC plugin work (ie place folder somewhere) 
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20110111 23:12:57< Aethaeryn> vultraz: If it doesn't work, and you can't get help, I'd just try something else.
20110111 23:13:07< Aethaeryn> You'll be spending more time learning the plugin than learning WML itself.
20110111 23:15:23-!- dipseydoodle [~mwkich@70.15.235.113.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net] has joined #wesnoth
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20110111 23:34:08< vultraz> hey dipseydoodle didn't u suggest 3D wesnoth on the forums?
20110111 23:34:23< dipseydoodle> Yes.
20110111 23:35:01< dipseydoodle> I'm going to be starting the coding part in a short while(Rooms available).
20110111 23:35:44< dipseydoodle> vultraz: You're interested?
20110111 23:36:16< vultraz> i cant really code (noob) but yes its interesting
20110111 23:37:48< dipseydoodle> K. Thanks.
20110111 23:38:02< dipseydoodle> I'l let you know if it goes anywhere.
20110111 23:40:49< vultraz> :)
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20110111 23:59:15< fendrin> vultraz: The eclipse based wml IDE is not a tool that prevent you from the need to learn wml.
20110111 23:59:26-!- DreadKnight [~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight] has joined #wesnoth
20110111 23:59:33< fendrin> It is meant to code WML like eclipse is meant to code java.
--- Log closed Wed Jan 12 00:00:02 2011