--- Log opened Sun Jan 30 00:00:59 2011
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20110130 04:11:26< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: poke
20110130 04:11:31< Aethaeryn> I have an idea
20110130 04:11:31< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: hi
20110130 04:11:35< Elvish_Pillager> oh how wonderful
20110130 04:11:36< Elvish_Pillager> an idea
20110130 04:11:51< Aethaeryn> What if we had a #wesnoth-lua ?
20110130 04:12:06< Aethaeryn> Gambit: *poke*
20110130 04:12:10< Elvish_Pillager> then I'd have an extra tab to have open in xchat
20110130 04:12:28< Aethaeryn> Elvish_Pillager: right
20110130 04:12:57< Aethaeryn> but the chan would be worth it.
20110130 04:13:04< Elvish_Pillager> I don't see the benefit
20110130 04:13:04< Aethaeryn> It would promote growth in the Lua community.
20110130 04:13:12< Aethaeryn> And coordination.
20110130 04:13:29< Elvish_Pillager> Don't you think visibility (by talking about Lua on the other channels) would also promote growth?
20110130 04:13:55< Aethaeryn> Yes, but it would also be clear who's using Lua.
20110130 04:14:01< Aethaeryn> it would promote cooperation/coordination
20110130 04:14:08< Aethaeryn> So we can have a thriving subculture.
20110130 04:14:12< shadowmaster> it would promote division of the content creators community.
20110130 04:14:19< shadowmaster> that's not a good thing, mind you
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20110130 04:14:23< Elvish_Pillager> A thriving subculture of how many people exactly?
20110130 04:14:28< Aethaeryn> Why would it promote division?
20110130 04:14:36< Aethaeryn> What's the work of one extra chan?
20110130 04:14:47< Elvish_Pillager> Work?
20110130 04:14:48< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: because of this arguably elitist statement: <Aethaeryn> Yes, but it would also be clear who's using Lua.
20110130 04:14:49< Aethaeryn> I'm in 9 Wesnoth chans and one semi-Wesnoth chan
20110130 04:14:58< Aethaeryn> Uh, that's not elitist.
20110130 04:15:05< Elvish_Pillager> ...yeah, that's not elitist
20110130 04:15:18< Aethaeryn> That's "uh, I honestly don't know who's using Lua in their add-ons and if they have a useful trick I'd like to know it."
20110130 04:15:21< Elvish_Pillager> I'm in two Wesnoth chans - three if you count #wikia-eohs
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20110130 04:15:37< Aethaeryn> Like the whole metatable trick for WML tables Gambit showed me
20110130 04:16:27< Elvish_Pillager> Aethaeryn: how would Lua users learn about the channel?
20110130 04:16:39< Aethaeryn> Well, Lua Labs is separate from WML Workshop in the forums.
20110130 04:16:50< Elvish_Pillager> yeah, but on the forum, you regularly look at a list of all forums
20110130 04:17:03< Elvish_Pillager> and/or use one of the features that aggregates all the discussions in one place
20110130 04:17:10< Aethaeryn> Most people aren't in one-to-two Wesnoth chans, and if they are, they're probably only in #wesnoth and/or #wesnoth-dev
20110130 04:17:25< Elvish_Pillager> while most IRC clients don't forefront the channel list, and even if they do, the wesnoth chans are buried in a long list
20110130 04:17:26< Aethaeryn> e.g. #Wesnoth-offtopic didn't kill #Wesnoth-music 
20110130 04:18:04< Elvish_Pillager> as far as I'm concerned, the only reason to split channels is when one is overused
20110130 04:18:41< Aethaeryn> How is this splitting a channel?
20110130 04:18:53< Aethaeryn> I don't see a channel that serves the role of Lua coding atm.
20110130 04:18:58< Elvish_Pillager> It's talking about stuff on #wesnoth-lua when we could be talking about it on #wesnoth instead
20110130 04:19:19< Elvish_Pillager> Is there even a general add-on development channel?
20110130 04:19:37 * Elvish_Pillager amends that to "a channel that meets EP's standards of being a general add-on development channel"
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20110130 04:20:02< ancestral> Bye!?
20110130 04:20:21< Aethaeryn> I don't like talking in medium-to-large channels like #wesnoth
20110130 04:20:26< Elvish_Pillager> Why not?
20110130 04:20:33< Elvish_Pillager> it's not like we need privacy
20110130 04:20:38< Aethaeryn> I feel like I'm hijacking it from people who might need it more.
20110130 04:20:40< Aethaeryn> e.g. the newbies
20110130 04:20:44< Elvish_Pillager> Not if people aren't talking
20110130 04:20:52< ancestral> Most people don't talk
20110130 04:20:56< Aethaeryn> I think the more specialized and in-depth topics should go to specialized and in-depth channels of a dozen or two people
20110130 04:21:07< Aethaeryn> So the general chans are for general chat or help
20110130 04:21:16< Elvish_Pillager> As a newbie, I'd much rather enter a channel where people are talking about something I don't understand or care about than enter a channel that's quiet
20110130 04:22:08< Elvish_Pillager> and as a modding dabbler, I'd appreciate hearing the chat of dedicated modders without having bothered to enter their dedicated channels
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20110130 10:24:12< Ivanovic> moin
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20110130 11:03:28< Fen1x> hi all
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20110130 18:09:56< Aethaeryn> Hmm, I'm still fascinated by this Egypt thing.
20110130 18:10:01-!- cp is now known as Guest38079
20110130 18:11:16< Aethaeryn> I'm also fascinated by the difference in coverage in CNN and Fox News.
20110130 18:11:32< Aethaeryn> It's something they're both spending almost their entire time covering, and they are very different.
20110130 18:11:51< Aethaeryn> e.g. CNN focuses on social media, democracy, etc.; Fox News is more cautious, talks about Israel, etc.
20110130 18:12:20< Aethaeryn> The interesting thing is that I wouldn't say that one is more biased than the other, they just have different biases. Gives a more complete news to watch 'em all.
20110130 18:12:42< Aethaeryn> Anyone here in/from Egypt or the Middle East?
20110130 18:13:04< Mussious> Aethaeryn, #wesnoth-offtopic ?
20110130 18:13:14< Aethaeryn> Well, there's not too many people in that chan.
20110130 18:13:26< Aethaeryn> the odds of finding someone is significantly lower
20110130 18:13:33< Mussious> ok
20110130 18:13:47< Aethaeryn> 8 unique non-bot people including myself
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20110130 18:13:55< Aethaeryn> I'm just wondering how the non-American news is.
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20110130 18:18:40< Mussious> I'm from Europe, but I'm not very interested about near east.
20110130 18:19:01< Aethaeryn> I spent 5 years of my childhood in the Middle East, from 3rd to 7th grade, because my dad had a job there.
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20110130 18:19:29< VurtualRuler98> I've never publicly been to the middle east or the near east or the anything-east.
20110130 18:19:59< VurtualRuler98> Frankly, South Dakota was far enough to remind me that different places are just different, and not any cooler.
20110130 18:20:14< Aethaeryn> Seriously? South Dakota?
20110130 18:20:23< Mussious> Is living there different?
20110130 18:20:30< Aethaeryn> You haven't lived unless you've lived in a non-democratic society for a few years.
20110130 18:20:36< VurtualRuler98> Why?
20110130 18:20:47< VurtualRuler98> I have the power to get pretty much everything where I live.
20110130 18:21:14< VurtualRuler98> Sometimes I just wonder "Hmm, how many tanks will they let me park in the backyard?", purely because it's an option.
20110130 18:21:39< Aethaeryn> Because to be a foreigner, a religious minority, and an ethnic minority living in a place where you don't really have public freedom of expression and yet you run into people from all over the world (Europe, Australia, America, etc.)...
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20110130 18:21:59< VurtualRuler98> I've always been that.
20110130 18:22:02< Aethaeryn> k
20110130 18:22:09< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: where are you?
20110130 18:22:16< VurtualRuler98> Illinois.
20110130 18:22:19< Aethaeryn> ...
20110130 18:22:23< Aethaeryn> I don't think you understand.
20110130 18:22:35< Aethaeryn> Unless you've lived in a place with no Bill of Rights, you don't understand how much they matter.
20110130 18:22:42< Aethaeryn> And how much tolerance matters, no matter how wrong the person is.
20110130 18:22:49< VurtualRuler98> No, I perfectly can understand that.
20110130 18:22:58< Aethaeryn> Honestly, I think I'm libertarian because I happen to like the US Constitution having seen places that don't have anything like it.
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20110130 18:23:13< VurtualRuler98> Since I apparently am not retarded, I never "needed to see something" to understand something.
20110130 18:23:14< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: There's a difference between understanding and experience. Philosophy of mind has some good examples.
20110130 18:23:24< Aethaeryn> You can know absolutely everything about color without ever seeing color, for instance.
20110130 18:23:27< Aethaeryn> Hypothetically speaking.
20110130 18:23:32< Aethaeryn> Does that mean you know color by knowing about it?
20110130 18:23:35< VurtualRuler98> Yep.
20110130 18:23:46< Aethaeryn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary%27s_room
20110130 18:24:13< Aethaeryn> Anyway...
20110130 18:24:26< VurtualRuler98> Ever since I was a kid(like, single-digit age) I was strongly pacafist and philosiphizing about the moralities of war, the reasons of why, how things happen, and death.
20110130 18:24:57< Aethaeryn> I've flirted with varying degrees of pacifism.
20110130 18:25:01< VurtualRuler98> How every single rule influences every single rule, like multi-faceted and omni-directional cards built into a house.
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20110130 18:25:13< Aethaeryn> Right now, I honestly think I'm more anti-war than true pacifist.
20110130 18:25:20< VurtualRuler98> I'm not against war at all.
20110130 18:25:27< Aethaeryn> In other words, I would defend myself if attacked, but I wouldn't support an invasion of another country.
20110130 18:25:35< Aethaeryn> Though, more like anti-invasion than anti-war.
20110130 18:25:36< VurtualRuler98> Sometimes, the greatest of questions can only be solved by the greatest of conflicts.
20110130 18:25:55< Aethaeryn> No problems with defending your rights, just problems with imposing your views of the world on someone else.
20110130 18:26:00< Aethaeryn> At the micro and macro level.
20110130 18:26:01< VurtualRuler98> Holding off on something we consider right or something we need isn't going to help anyone.
20110130 18:26:29< Aethaeryn> There's simply too many unintended consequences from an invasion.
20110130 18:26:44< VurtualRuler98> Know what you're doing, and you'll survive.
20110130 18:26:51< VurtualRuler98> Conflict brought us immense technological advances, too, so that's nice.
20110130 18:27:00< Aethaeryn> So has the space program.
20110130 18:27:05< VurtualRuler98> cold war.
20110130 18:27:10< Aethaeryn> I'd rather have a massive space budget than a massive defense budget. ;-)
20110130 18:27:12< Aethaeryn> We can compromise.
20110130 18:27:15< Aethaeryn> Just arm our spaceships.
20110130 18:27:18< Aethaeryn> And our satellites.
20110130 18:27:23< Aethaeryn> And merge the DoD and NASA
20110130 18:27:28< Aethaeryn> NASA will never be short on funding ever again
20110130 18:27:30< VurtualRuler98> No really, most of that space tech was from a cold war against the USSR. War is war.
20110130 18:27:42< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: It was about competition.
20110130 18:27:46< Aethaeryn> Competition drives innovation.
20110130 18:27:50< VurtualRuler98> Wether it's men on the battlefield, subversive espionage, or "who can stand on the moon first"
20110130 18:27:56< Aethaeryn> Competition can be anything, a war or just a national rivalry
20110130 18:28:01< Aethaeryn> Military or even sports.
20110130 18:28:08< Aethaeryn> Free market or just a few big companies
20110130 18:28:08< VurtualRuler98> Well, ISP-rivalry got us pretty far.
20110130 18:28:13< Aethaeryn> Anything competitive brings innovation.
20110130 18:28:26< VurtualRuler98> But we got that linux thing!
20110130 18:28:28< Aethaeryn> Introduce FiOS into the area, and Comcast doubles its HD channels and Internet speed :P
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20110130 18:28:37< VurtualRuler98> Aethaeryn or they'll just sue you or something stupid like that.
20110130 18:28:41< Aethaeryn> So no, war doesn't necessarily drive innovation.
20110130 18:28:47< Aethaeryn> One-sided war doesn't.
20110130 18:28:49< VurtualRuler98> no no what you've been saying
20110130 18:28:50< Aethaeryn> Competition is the key.
20110130 18:29:00< VurtualRuler98> is that war is a subset of things that drive innovation
20110130 18:29:09< Aethaeryn> No, I'm saying that war isn't.
20110130 18:29:13< Aethaeryn> I'm saying competition is.
20110130 18:29:16< VurtualRuler98> It...
20110130 18:29:18< Aethaeryn> Some wars are a no-contest.
20110130 18:29:25< Aethaeryn> If we were to invade Jamaica, would we learn anything?
20110130 18:29:41< VurtualRuler98> That torching weed fields improves troop morale?
20110130 18:29:47< Aethaeryn> XD
20110130 18:29:50< Aethaeryn> Fair point
20110130 18:30:00< VurtualRuler98> There's a difference between war and stageplay.
20110130 18:30:31< VurtualRuler98> You'll learn something from, say, capturing an entire third world country, or fighting an ex-soviet state, because there's an enemy, which you have to compete against.
20110130 18:30:51< VurtualRuler98> So you can use asymmetrical warfare, and then less of your guys die.
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20110130 18:31:32< zookeeper> the fact that people fund more research or perform better during war doesn't make war better, since those people could do the exact same thing without the war.
20110130 18:32:04< Aethaeryn> That was my point with the joke about merging NASA and the DoD.
20110130 18:32:05< VurtualRuler98> "Hey boys, call up R&D and tell them we need to improve our tanks against that new weapon thing our enemies use."
20110130 18:32:09< VurtualRuler98> "...what weapon?"
20110130 18:32:12< Aethaeryn> It's the massive amounts of money that matters, not the fact that you do war.
20110130 18:32:24< VurtualRuler98> "Hey, we need to beat a country to the um..."
20110130 18:32:32< VurtualRuler98> "...10-items-or-less lane?"
20110130 18:32:56< Aethaeryn> If we halved our defense budget and put it all into NASA, we might learn something.
20110130 18:33:05< VurtualRuler98> Or maybe not.
20110130 18:33:15< zookeeper> put simply, you can't use predictions (no matter how accurate) of what kind of sovereign ethical choices people will make if you go to war as an argument for going to war.
20110130 18:33:18< VurtualRuler98> Can we keep building thermoptic camo and mechs? I want my Ghost in The Shell stuff already.
20110130 18:33:19< Aethaeryn> (And sorry, environmentalists who believe that we shouldn't go to Mars/Moon and instead combat <environmental cause>. Modern day NASA is in fact rather big on environmental science.)
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20110130 18:33:39< VurtualRuler98> NASA is also instructed to teach Muslims about space.
20110130 18:33:58< Aethaeryn> Is that a Fox News headline?
20110130 18:34:11< VurtualRuler98> no, seriously.
20110130 18:34:15< VurtualRuler98> Also, children.
20110130 18:34:21< VurtualRuler98> Pretty much anyone not into space needs to be made into space ASAP.
20110130 18:34:29< Aethaeryn> Well, duh.
20110130 18:34:42< Aethaeryn> To boldly go where no one has gone before.
20110130 18:34:53< Aethaeryn> If people don't live by that, then they haven't been converted yet.
20110130 18:34:57< VurtualRuler98> That line is mostly useless until dolphins are a recognized people.
20110130 18:34:59< Aethaeryn> So, NASA should just sponsor massive Star Trek marathons.
20110130 18:35:05< Aethaeryn> Maybe subsidize a Star Trek channel.
20110130 18:35:10< Aethaeryn> Hell, just buy the crap that is Syfy...
20110130 18:35:16< VurtualRuler98> No, no, a channel where they show science fiction shows.
20110130 18:35:17< Aethaeryn> And replace it with reruns of good sci fi 
20110130 18:35:19< VurtualRuler98> What will we call it?
20110130 18:35:25< VurtualRuler98> SCIENCE CHANNEL?
20110130 18:35:29< Aethaeryn> Just 24/7 things like Twilight Zone, Star Trek, Stargate, etc.
20110130 18:35:33< VurtualRuler98> Stargate?
20110130 18:35:35< Aethaeryn> That'll get people into sci fi
20110130 18:35:41< Aethaeryn> Not crappy made-for-TV monster movies.
20110130 18:35:43< VurtualRuler98> Okay, genuinely, Ghost in The Shell would help better than Stargate.
20110130 18:35:55< VurtualRuler98> It'd also occupy people into pondering pointless things all day.
20110130 18:36:02< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Early Stargate before Richard Dean Anderson left was great.
20110130 18:36:05< Aethaeryn> Awesome.
20110130 18:36:07< VurtualRuler98> And drive them insane from the intro music stuck into their head.
20110130 18:36:17< Aethaeryn> You needed his part though to keep the campiness tolerable though.
20110130 18:36:27< Aethaeryn> He made it fun and funny and cool at the same time.
20110130 18:36:42< VurtualRuler98> ...I liked the original stargate movie, you know.
20110130 18:37:48< HosenJack> you should also google N.A.S.A
20110130 18:37:50< HosenJack> ;)
20110130 18:38:07< HosenJack> N.A.S.A. *
20110130 18:38:08< VurtualRuler98> Genuinely I can't wait until we get powered armor as a trend going.
20110130 18:38:27< VurtualRuler98> HEV Suits, power suits, nanosuits, thermoptic camo suits, mobile armor suits, and beyond.
20110130 18:38:46< Aethaeryn> Ban damn FPS games and no one will want to fund the army anymore :-P
20110130 18:38:59< Aethaeryn> Spoiler: they're all pretty much the same.
20110130 18:39:05< VurtualRuler98> wat
20110130 18:39:14< Aethaeryn> Every other genre is more original and innovative.
20110130 18:39:20< VurtualRuler98> u mad.
20110130 18:39:39< Aethaeryn> FPSes in 2001 vs. 2011 = better graphics/physics and actually shorter non-MP gameplay time.
20110130 18:39:49< Aethaeryn> Every other genre has actually improved in the past decade.
20110130 18:39:53< VurtualRuler98> Half-Life 2 is unlike Portal which is unlike Quake which is unlike Deus Ex which is unlike Unreal.
20110130 18:40:05< Aethaeryn> Portal isn't a FPS
20110130 18:40:09< VurtualRuler98> ...yes it is.
20110130 18:40:12< Aethaeryn> You don't shoot things, you shoot portals.
20110130 18:40:16< Aethaeryn> It's a puzzle game.
20110130 18:40:16< VurtualRuler98> You have a thing, which you shoot, in first person.
20110130 18:40:20< Aethaeryn> It's a puzzle game.
20110130 18:40:26< VurtualRuler98> It also is on an FPS engine, and you can get firearms.
20110130 18:40:30< Aethaeryn> Uh.
20110130 18:40:33< Aethaeryn> Firearms that shoot... portals?
20110130 18:40:40< VurtualRuler98> No, .357 magnum.
20110130 18:40:43< VurtualRuler98> Or a rocket.
20110130 18:40:47< Aethaeryn> Unless you're talking about Portal 2?
20110130 18:40:51< Aethaeryn> I haven't played Portal 2.
20110130 18:41:06< VurtualRuler98> no, portal 1.
20110130 18:41:10< VurtualRuler98> You never played custom maps, did you?
20110130 18:41:18< Aethaeryn> I had it on console
20110130 18:41:20< Aethaeryn> :-P
20110130 18:41:22< VurtualRuler98> Besides, portal was made, partially, by FPS devs.
20110130 18:41:32< VurtualRuler98> Oh yeah that's why you pretend there's no innovation, you have a coonsole!
20110130 18:41:37< Aethaeryn> But actually, Portal is pretty much just under my category though
20110130 18:41:41< VurtualRuler98> We started off with the likes of battlezone and eyemaze, got Wolf3D, then Doom.
20110130 18:41:42< Aethaeryn> "Better graphics/physics"
20110130 18:41:48< Aethaeryn> There you go, better physics :P
20110130 18:41:52< VurtualRuler98> Doom accidentally became moddable, and well... started modding.
20110130 18:42:00< Aethaeryn> But actually, Portal is the counterexample that proves the trend.
20110130 18:42:13< Aethaeryn> Really, one of the few FPS games that is truly innovative in gameplay since 2001
20110130 18:42:20< VurtualRuler98> <leonard nimoy CIV IV intro voice>
20110130 18:42:39< Aethaeryn> But compared to 80s/90s development...
20110130 18:42:42< VurtualRuler98> Soon, we were off. Dark Forces pushed up a trend of cutscenes, and stories. Quake brought forth the 3D world, gore, gibs, and openGL lights.
20110130 18:42:45< Aethaeryn> FPSes have been rather stagnant.
20110130 18:43:10< VurtualRuler98> Unreal gave a seamless world of adventure, Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament created modern multiplayer gaming, which is now an international sport.
20110130 18:43:14< Aethaeryn> I mean, wait 10-15 years without playing games and then start playing in 1999 and it's a totally different activity practically.
20110130 18:43:21< VurtualRuler98> Half-Life began the story-driven immersive world.
20110130 18:43:34< Aethaeryn> Right, and by comparrison, the past 10 years are, meh.
20110130 18:43:47< Aethaeryn> You have Halo... wow, FPSes are now on console which eliminates the whole fun of FPSes (custom maps, mods, etc.)
20110130 18:43:55< Aethaeryn> Well, at least for me the reason you play for more than a few months in MP
20110130 18:43:57< VurtualRuler98> Then, the next generation came. Deus Ex, like System Shock before it, created an immersive RPG, with an amazing story and vibrant, explorable world.
20110130 18:44:08< VurtualRuler98> (2000)
20110130 18:44:26< VurtualRuler98> The early 2000s brought forth the WW2 shooter, Battlefield 1942, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor....
20110130 18:44:28< Aethaeryn> The last 4-5 years have been mostly sequels.
20110130 18:44:42< VurtualRuler98> Tresspasser showed off a lot of new ideas.
20110130 18:44:47< Aethaeryn> Not just FPSes, too.
20110130 18:44:51< Aethaeryn> The game industry is too safe now.
20110130 18:44:57< Aethaeryn> You don't see things like Minecraft coming from insiders.
20110130 18:45:05< VurtualRuler98> Then, out came Half-Life 2. Which created a realistic world of puzzle and action, with PHYSICS
20110130 18:45:08< Aethaeryn> They'd rather make Sims 3
20110130 18:45:13< VurtualRuler98> skipping some entries
20110130 18:45:15< Aethaeryn> Which is just like Sims 2 but with new features and better graphics
20110130 18:45:20< VurtualRuler98> 2007, Portal, Team Fortress 2.
20110130 18:45:33< VurtualRuler98> Portal caused a memetic sensation, despite being a small project.
20110130 18:45:36< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: You're naming one company.
20110130 18:45:42< Aethaeryn> There's one company that still innovates in shooters.
20110130 18:45:42< VurtualRuler98> valve innovated a lot
20110130 18:45:46< VurtualRuler98> and I'm really blank on the mid-2000s.
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20110130 18:45:54< VurtualRuler98> Team Fortress 2 created well... you should know by now.
20110130 18:45:57-!- Feufochmar [~Feufochma@116.82.69-86.rev.gaoland.net] has left #wesnoth []
20110130 18:45:57< Aethaeryn> Since Half-Life 2 it's basically just been Valve.
20110130 18:46:06< VurtualRuler98> Other big titles include STALKER, which created a nice RPG.
20110130 18:46:19< VurtualRuler98> Crysis, which, shockingly, is actually a fun sci-fi shooter with a veeeeeery nice editor.
20110130 18:46:24-!- vjoe [~vjoe@a94-132-113-51.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 18:46:32< VurtualRuler98> and also began making us upgrade our computers.
20110130 18:47:13< VurtualRuler98> The main reason we're seeing sequels, is just like an area around the 90s. We have games like ARMA, Half-Life 2, and so on, that are great, and they're getting sequels.
20110130 18:47:25< VurtualRuler98> Like ARMA 2, which created an amazing military simulator, and um....
20110130 18:47:53< VurtualRuler98> yeah whatever
20110130 18:48:35< VurtualRuler98> The next big innovation-wave was Left 4 Dead and games like Killing Floor. 
20110130 18:48:36< Aethaeryn> Very incremental improvements, though.
20110130 18:48:46< Aethaeryn> Most of the improvements are simply taking stuff that exist, and adding one spin on it.
20110130 18:48:57< Aethaeryn> In the 90s there were sometimes releases that completely changed the way things were done.
20110130 18:49:03< VurtualRuler98> Doom is Wolfenstein 3D in a new setting, and with mild up/down+graphics.
20110130 18:49:03< Aethaeryn> Entire engines were obsoleted overnight.
20110130 18:49:05< Aethaeryn> It's too stable.
20110130 18:49:20< VurtualRuler98> So wait, we have working, popular engines... and we need to abandon them?
20110130 18:49:30< VurtualRuler98> id's already going past their old id tech engines, too, with rage.
20110130 18:49:58< Aethaeryn> One of the reasons Duke Nukem Forever kept getting delayed is because a few new engines basically made it obsolete before it was released.
20110130 18:50:01< Aethaeryn> In the 90s.
20110130 18:50:08< Aethaeryn> Nowadays, the improvements aren't *that* noticeable.
20110130 18:50:16< Aethaeryn> So you can get away with using a slightly old engine.
20110130 18:50:18< Aethaeryn> Look at Quake.
20110130 18:50:21< Aethaeryn> That was revolutionary.
20110130 18:50:29< VurtualRuler98> Yeah, but Quake II?
20110130 18:50:40-!- Crendgrim [~crend@95-88-176-61-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 18:50:51< Aethaeryn> I guess my point is that progress is slowing.
20110130 18:51:09< Aethaeryn> As budgets increase, it becomes more and more expensive to one-up your predecessors.
20110130 18:51:15< Aethaeryn> And fewer and fewer companies are able to do it.
20110130 18:51:22< Aethaeryn> Shooters are oversaturated.
20110130 18:51:26< VurtualRuler98> Just Cause 2 was pretty awesome.
20110130 18:51:27< Aethaeryn> There needs to be new genres. :-P
20110130 18:51:40< VurtualRuler98> 1up'd a lot, given that I dumped over a hundred hours into just randomly breaking things and doing action stunts.
20110130 18:52:00< Aethaeryn> Look at all the improvements the GTA franchise has had
20110130 18:52:05< VurtualRuler98> The last decade also has Morrowind.
20110130 18:52:23< VurtualRuler98> DNF only switched twice or so.
20110130 18:52:38< VurtualRuler98> I think they upgraded unreal engines a few times, but it took thirteen years so far, so that was inevitable.
20110130 18:53:06< Aethaeryn> Still, the core gameplay, with few exceptions, is essentially identical across FPS games.
20110130 18:53:13< Aethaeryn> You buy a shooter, you know what to expect.
20110130 18:53:18< VurtualRuler98> Yes, and the two or so RPG styles out there.
20110130 18:53:28< Aethaeryn> The main difference between Halo and CoD, as different as they are, is the controls and tactics.
20110130 18:53:40< VurtualRuler98> tactics means a lot.
20110130 18:53:40< Aethaeryn> E.g. the Halo n00bs in MW are the ones who jump around without cover
20110130 18:53:45< VurtualRuler98> A whole new setting and world?
20110130 18:53:59< VurtualRuler98> A completely different playstyle, feel, and intricate detail?
20110130 18:54:05< Aethaeryn> Setting, graphics, phyics... 9 times out of 10 those are superficial.
20110130 18:54:09< Aethaeryn> It's still the same *type* of game.
20110130 18:54:12< VurtualRuler98> No, setting is never
20110130 18:54:15< VurtualRuler98>  ever superficial
20110130 18:54:22< Aethaeryn> If you played shooters in 2003 you'd still be comfortable in any shooter today.
20110130 18:54:28< VurtualRuler98> no, I'm not.
20110130 18:54:40< VurtualRuler98> I still want battlefield 1942, no matter how many new games there are, they're not the same. Gaming changes a lot.
20110130 18:54:52< Aethaeryn> The basics don't change.
20110130 18:54:54< VurtualRuler98> As a person who spends 250+ hours every two weeks playing them, I am sure.
20110130 18:55:15< Aethaeryn> 17 hours a day?
20110130 18:55:19< VurtualRuler98> Yeah.
20110130 18:55:24< Aethaeryn> are you a professional gamer?
20110130 18:55:27< Aethaeryn> How do you pay bills?
20110130 18:55:34< VurtualRuler98> I sit in this basement and play the video games.
20110130 18:55:35< VurtualRuler98> That is my world.
20110130 18:55:44< Aethaeryn> O.o
20110130 18:55:49< VurtualRuler98> Sapping off my parents may be incredibly cheap but whatever.
20110130 18:55:54< joo> ...that's 36 hours a day
20110130 18:56:00< Aethaeryn> joo: he said eery two weeks
20110130 18:56:03< joo> oh
20110130 18:56:04< Aethaeryn> divide by 2
20110130 18:56:05-!- ancestral [~ancestral@71-34-48-161.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 18:56:09< VurtualRuler98> Or maybe I'm just that dedicated.
20110130 18:56:11< joo> I didn't see that
20110130 18:56:12< joo> forgive me
20110130 18:56:19< Aethaeryn> I didn't until I pulled out the calculator
20110130 18:56:24< VurtualRuler98> Half-Life 2 wouldn't be Half-Life 2 without the story and setting, the desolate buildings and worn-out eastern-bloc architecture. The extremely realistic and well-lasting graphics also helped.
20110130 18:56:27< Aethaeryn> Well, technically I just use python3
20110130 18:56:48< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: seriously? basement?
20110130 18:56:55< VurtualRuler98> Yeah, why? What's wrong with that?
20110130 18:56:57< VurtualRuler98> It's not a pit.
20110130 18:56:58< Aethaeryn> At least use a lit room on the 2nd floor.
20110130 18:57:02< Aethaeryn> Don't play into stereotypes.
20110130 18:57:08< VurtualRuler98> It has fancy tile floors, a surround sound system, a 61-inch TV
20110130 18:57:28< VurtualRuler98> a rifle shooting range, a stocked library, wi-fi, central heating.
20110130 18:57:42< VurtualRuler98> a bajillion or so consoles, including a dreamcast.
20110130 18:57:50< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: how old are you?
20110130 18:57:50< VurtualRuler98> Also, to note, I can just grab a bunch of FPSes off my gamelist and they'll all play differently. So there.
20110130 18:57:55< VurtualRuler98> twenty-something, why?
20110130 18:57:59< Aethaeryn> k
20110130 18:58:02< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: do you have a job?
20110130 18:58:07< VurtualRuler98> No, why?
20110130 18:58:16< Aethaeryn> Just wondering.
20110130 18:58:22< VurtualRuler98> If by "job" you mean "apply omnidirectional expertise to make everything always work" then yeah.
20110130 18:58:22< Aethaeryn> For my parents, it's either school or job.
20110130 18:58:38< VurtualRuler98> "I hear something!" "Help, help, this isn't working!" "PERL!" "Yaaaay!"
20110130 18:58:42< Aethaeryn> If I wasn't a full-time, year-round student I'd have to get a job.
20110130 18:58:58< Aethaeryn> Hence, I'm going for a PhD after graduating ;-)
20110130 18:59:06< PetePorty> ...
20110130 18:59:11< VurtualRuler98> "You need school" "I'M FLUENT IN MULTIPLE LANGUAGES AND I BUILT MY OWN SUPERCOMPUTER SHUT UP"
20110130 18:59:29< PetePorty> I'm totally gonna have a year of slacking off after university.
20110130 18:59:31< Aethaeryn> I don't take math/comp sci classes to learn.
20110130 18:59:43< VurtualRuler98> Then there's the opportunity where "You need to learn to do things."
20110130 18:59:45< Aethaeryn> I treat it like a score-as-many-points-as-possible-and-get-straight-As game
20110130 18:59:49< VurtualRuler98> or "you need friends"
20110130 18:59:52< VurtualRuler98> and I just list on and on and on and on and on
20110130 19:00:02< Aethaeryn> I probably already have the talent to do some good computer-related stuff
20110130 19:00:05< Aethaeryn> But you need *some* credentials.
20110130 19:00:12< Aethaeryn> They open doors.
20110130 19:00:16< VurtualRuler98> I have the talent to fly jets. Should I go get a jet-flying job?
20110130 19:00:24< VurtualRuler98> My brother has a shiny job, technically he has no credentials.
20110130 19:00:46< PetePorty> "you need *REAL* friends" is what they tell me...
20110130 19:00:48< Aethaeryn> It's not necesary.
20110130 19:00:49< PetePorty> ;_;
20110130 19:00:56< Aethaeryn> Bill Gates *and* Steve Jobs dropped out of college.
20110130 19:01:01< VurtualRuler98> I just grab the phone, call someone I know, and start talking about something.
20110130 19:01:10< Aethaeryn> It's definitely not necessary to get a good job to have college.
20110130 19:01:14-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 19:01:16< Aethaeryn> It's just extremely useful.
20110130 19:01:16< VurtualRuler98> and I stare at the complainer all the while.
20110130 19:01:28< VurtualRuler98> yeah dude I knew this dude who went to college
20110130 19:01:31< Aethaeryn> It's more like hedging your bets.
20110130 19:01:35< VurtualRuler98> and he didn't have a good job before
20110130 19:01:40< PetePorty> ...
20110130 19:01:58< Aethaeryn> You can get a good job with or without college, but with college you're at least going to be more likely to land a decent job.
20110130 19:01:59< PetePorty> I also understood it that way until I read it again.
20110130 19:01:59< PetePorty> ^_^
20110130 19:02:00< VurtualRuler98> I'm going to get moreso into construction of physical things.
20110130 19:02:12< VurtualRuler98> Since I can just pretty much stick together things and get a working helicopter, I can probably make SOMETHING cool.
20110130 19:02:14< Aethaeryn> In other words, if you drop out and you fail getting a good job, you're working at Best Buy.
20110130 19:02:25< VurtualRuler98> An artificially-intelligent tank maybe?
20110130 19:02:25< Aethaeryn> If you stay in college, at least you can work some boring office job and make more money.
20110130 19:02:43< VurtualRuler98> I'd rather join the military than work at best buy okay
20110130 19:02:51< VurtualRuler98> I have morals.
20110130 19:03:04< PetePorty> You don't need credentials there to join the army?
20110130 19:03:24< Aethaeryn> I'd rather get at least a masters degree, then join (or start) a startup
20110130 19:03:29< VurtualRuler98> Any dumb guy can probably become a grunt.
20110130 19:03:39< Aethaeryn> And work 18 hours a day for the chance to be a multimillionaire.
20110130 19:03:40< VurtualRuler98> Infact, there's a whole "learn college things while military" thing.
20110130 19:03:45< PetePorty> Here we must have at least one uni shit or study 4 years at the military school.
20110130 19:03:59< Crendgrim> you're really able to diskuss about everything and nothing... you started with Egypt and went to college and military... and in a whole hour no wesnoth-related stuff inbetween as far as I remember :-P
20110130 19:04:10< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: here you might need the military to go to college.
20110130 19:04:10< VurtualRuler98> The thing is though, places like the marines will brutally and violently make you into a supersoldier wether you like it or not.
20110130 19:04:14< Aethaeryn> Since it's so damn expensive.
20110130 19:04:17< VurtualRuler98> Crendgrim the moral?
20110130 19:04:20< PetePorty> Heh...
20110130 19:04:20< VurtualRuler98> wesnoth suuuucks
20110130 19:04:23< Aethaeryn> Honestly, if my parents go broke that might be my only option.
20110130 19:04:30< Aethaeryn> Kinda like being an endentured servant.
20110130 19:04:34< VurtualRuler98> if my parents go broke
20110130 19:04:36< VurtualRuler98> I'll blame the iPad.
20110130 19:04:40< Aethaeryn> You enlist, they pay for your degree, you have to work for them for a certain number of years.
20110130 19:04:51< PetePorty> MY parents are already broke.
20110130 19:04:55< joo> Can it be any degree?
20110130 19:04:57< Aethaeryn> If you're doing something IT-related you're not going to be front-line or anything
20110130 19:05:00-!- vcap [~vcap@AReims-551-1-133-177.w90-18.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 19:05:00< Crendgrim> I only was surprised, VurtualRuler...
20110130 19:05:03< PetePorty> So I'm planning to get some free scolarship shit.
20110130 19:05:16< Aethaeryn> joo: Well, they're probably looking for something like physics, computer science, mechanical engineering, etc.
20110130 19:05:30< VurtualRuler98> and then I'll ctrl+c and ctrl+v some of my map projects to an email to gabe, then go do a game design lecture on an open source project and become a hobo until gabe notices said email.
20110130 19:05:42< Aethaeryn> joo: At least, in a program I'd want to do.
20110130 19:05:49< Aethaeryn> Otherwise you might very well be frontline infantry :P
20110130 19:05:55-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20110130 19:06:00< VurtualRuler98> What's wrong with frontline infantry?
20110130 19:06:06< PetePorty> I really want to learn programming...
20110130 19:06:09< Aethaeryn> Definitely not fitting my temperment.
20110130 19:06:11< joo> They die.
20110130 19:06:12< VurtualRuler98> PetePorty, google.
20110130 19:06:18< VurtualRuler98> joo, everyone dies in war.
20110130 19:06:19< VurtualRuler98> Even civilians.
20110130 19:06:21< Aethaeryn> I'm a calm person who likes to think.
20110130 19:06:21< PetePorty> >.<
20110130 19:06:22< VurtualRuler98> EVEN THE PLAAANTS.
20110130 19:06:34< joo> Frontline infantry specialise in dying
20110130 19:06:35< Aethaeryn> I'd rather be at a desk staring at a problem for hours.
20110130 19:06:44< Aethaeryn> The most active role I'd want is pushing buttons to bomb people ;-)
20110130 19:06:57< VurtualRuler98> SAMs, I choose you.
20110130 19:06:57< PetePorty> I don't like killing people...
20110130 19:07:00< Aethaeryn> Actually being in a combat zone with a gun, that's a bit to hands-on for my temperment.
20110130 19:07:03< VurtualRuler98> I'm a very good thinker and intelligent, but I'd still rather be in a fireteam than sitting at a desk.
20110130 19:07:12< Aethaeryn> I like the delay, the opportunity to think a bit.
20110130 19:07:15< VurtualRuler98> Fireteam? I get to go help people in need and actually do something.
20110130 19:07:21< Aethaeryn> In other words, I'm much smarter when I have time to think vs. thinking on my feet.
20110130 19:07:26< VurtualRuler98> Desk job? Desk job, but I can also get the latter without the fun promotions.
20110130 19:07:33-!- HosenJack [~FYMLIFYM@ip-62-143-120-102.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 19:07:51< VurtualRuler98> which means no awesome general stars.
20110130 19:07:57< PetePorty> ...
20110130 19:08:06< Aethaeryn> Tbh, I'd much rather be the weapons-designing/testing guy than the guy using the weapons.
20110130 19:08:06< VurtualRuler98> and no re-enlisting so I can stay on the field instead of being in a desk chair again.
20110130 19:08:10-!- Crendgrim [~crend@95-88-176-61-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #wesnoth ["..."]
20110130 19:08:19< VurtualRuler98> Aethaeryn, okay, so, go design a rifle better than the M16A4.
20110130 19:08:24< PetePorty> I wouldn't join the military.
20110130 19:08:25< PetePorty> Ever.
20110130 19:08:43< VurtualRuler98> Shoot yourself like a coward in BCT then?
20110130 19:08:44< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: I'm more into computers than engineering, so I'd probably do something more Air Force or Navy than Army.
20110130 19:08:50< Aethaeryn> Because I could work on computer systems.
20110130 19:08:58< VurtualRuler98> Yeah, but they have plenty of nerds already.
20110130 19:09:10< VurtualRuler98> I generally get chewed out for this, but a majority of people getting in want a noncombat role
20110130 19:09:12< Aethaeryn> even in the army, I'd not be working with guns.
20110130 19:09:15< Aethaeryn> I'm talking about high tech stuff
20110130 19:09:24< Aethaeryn> Probably a contractor, working on computer systems of some sort.
20110130 19:09:29< Aethaeryn> I'd do the software-end, not the hardware-end.
20110130 19:09:33< Aethaeryn> Someone else on the team can do the hardware.
20110130 19:09:50< Aethaeryn> Something cool would be the unmanned drones.
20110130 19:10:01< VurtualRuler98> They already have those people.
20110130 19:10:03< Aethaeryn> If the army has unmanned systems, that'd be good to work on.
20110130 19:10:12< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: I am aware.
20110130 19:10:15< VurtualRuler98> You don't realize that everybody wants to do what you do, right?
20110130 19:10:27< Aethaeryn> So?
20110130 19:10:38 * VurtualRuler98 goes back to pretend-holding a gun and making really nice gun sounds
20110130 19:10:43< Aethaeryn> uh
20110130 19:10:48< PetePorty> ...
20110130 19:11:02< Aethaeryn> whatever
20110130 19:11:09< VurtualRuler98> aww, I can't do that tongue-rolling machinegun sound again :(
20110130 19:11:14< Aethaeryn> anyway, I don't *need* to work for the military
20110130 19:11:22< Aethaeryn> Computer systems are everywhere now.
20110130 19:11:40< VurtualRuler98> go invent cyberbrains pls
20110130 19:11:41< Aethaeryn> One company that'd be really cool to work for is one of the space tourism ones.
20110130 19:11:47< Aethaeryn> I'd love to work on space tourism.
20110130 19:11:49< PetePorty> When I was little, lets say 8-12 years old, I would have loved to be front line soldier, then I realized I don't want to die for stupid nonsense.
20110130 19:12:07< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: yeah, it's the dying part I'd be opposed to.
20110130 19:12:12< joo> Theoretical computer science sounds best to me.
20110130 19:12:12< Aethaeryn> If you could respawn I wouldn't mind.
20110130 19:12:18< PetePorty> Exactly.
20110130 19:12:28< VurtualRuler98> THEORETICAL PHYSICS
20110130 19:12:41< PetePorty> Dying sucks.
20110130 19:12:42< joo> Or indeed that.
20110130 19:12:44< Aethaeryn> joo: I'd love to work at something like theoretical computer science or pure mathematics, but there's a reason those aren't in most universities.
20110130 19:12:53< Aethaeryn> There's not that much of a demand.
20110130 19:13:04< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: I'm not opposed to dying. I'm just opposed to dying young before my time.
20110130 19:13:04< VurtualRuler98> I want to be on the frontline when, and only when, they invent ballistic protection that doesn't impede the user.
20110130 19:13:12< PetePorty> Aethaeryn: Exactly.
20110130 19:13:16< Aethaeryn> Or dying suddenly, actually.
20110130 19:13:19< VurtualRuler98> I'm opposed to dying outright.
20110130 19:13:21< Aethaeryn> If I am dying, I'd like to have warning
20110130 19:13:22< VurtualRuler98> Young, old, whatever.
20110130 19:13:22< PetePorty> It's just wasting opportunities 
20110130 19:13:28< Aethaeryn> So I can spend some time on philosophical contemplation.
20110130 19:13:31< VurtualRuler98> live forever bro
20110130 19:13:32< Aethaeryn> No time in the war zone.
20110130 19:13:33< joo> Well I'm not going to go to some shitty university
20110130 19:13:50< Aethaeryn> joo: what country are you in?
20110130 19:13:54< joo> England
20110130 19:13:54< PetePorty> ...
20110130 19:13:57< Aethaeryn> Oh.
20110130 19:13:59< VurtualRuler98> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WarriorPoet
20110130 19:13:59< Aethaeryn> too bad.
20110130 19:14:07< Aethaeryn> If you were in the US you could go to Johns Hopkins
20110130 19:14:19< Aethaeryn> Probably the best grad school in anything in the state.
20110130 19:14:25< PetePorty> I need to get some programming classes...
20110130 19:14:27< VurtualRuler98> the state
20110130 19:14:28< VurtualRuler98> which state
20110130 19:14:33< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Maryland.
20110130 19:14:34< VurtualRuler98> PetePorty, here
20110130 19:14:39< Aethaeryn> Which is one of the best education systems, actually.
20110130 19:14:46< VurtualRuler98> secret page
20110130 19:14:47< PetePorty> I mean like... real programming classes.
20110130 19:14:48< joo> If I manage to meet certain requirements, I will be going to one of the best for CompSci in the world
20110130 19:14:55< Aethaeryn> Honestly, probably only a handful of states have objectively better universities and education systems.
20110130 19:15:01< Aethaeryn> Places like Massachussets and California.
20110130 19:15:06< VurtualRuler98> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=programming+C+tutorial
20110130 19:15:10< Aethaeryn> Maryland's about as blue as those states.
20110130 19:15:18< Aethaeryn> joo: where?
20110130 19:15:21< Aethaeryn> MIT?
20110130 19:15:24< joo> Imperial College London
20110130 19:15:28< Aethaeryn> oh
20110130 19:15:37< joo> Note, "one of"
20110130 19:15:38< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: tutorial != classes.
20110130 19:15:39< VurtualRuler98> Have they made supersoldier scientists? No.
20110130 19:15:43< VurtualRuler98> PetePorty, it's good enough.
20110130 19:15:51< VurtualRuler98> Information is information.
20110130 19:15:52< Aethaeryn> In the US, it's MIT, Carneige-Mellon, Stanford, and... um...
20110130 19:15:52< PetePorty> That's why I said, *REAL* classes.
20110130 19:15:55< Aethaeryn> Can't remember the fourth.
20110130 19:16:01< Aethaeryn> Anyone remember the fourth?
20110130 19:16:03< VurtualRuler98> nope.
20110130 19:16:13< PetePorty> Gaining information != gaining knowledge.
20110130 19:16:19< PetePorty> And therefore, it's  not learning.
20110130 19:16:19< Aethaeryn> Berkeley
20110130 19:16:21< Aethaeryn> oh, home of BSD
20110130 19:16:24< Aethaeryn> http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-computer-science-schools/rankings
20110130 19:16:29< Aethaeryn> Those are tied for 1st
20110130 19:16:40< Aethaeryn> oh, hmm, college park is 14th
20110130 19:16:52< Aethaeryn> Maryland does have some good schools.
20110130 19:16:55< VurtualRuler98> You do realize that it doesn't take a special class to teach you how to type main(), right?
20110130 19:16:58< Aethaeryn> UMBC, UMD, Hopkins
20110130 19:17:08< VurtualRuler98> Pretty much every single programmer you will ever meet, will have learned things by googling it.
20110130 19:17:09< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: It's not about programming
20110130 19:17:09< joo> VurtualRuler98, I already know that
20110130 19:17:13< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: a monkey can program.
20110130 19:17:21< VurtualRuler98> I'm talking to mr "real classes"
20110130 19:17:24< Aethaeryn> Computer science, once you learn how to code, is mathematics.
20110130 19:17:28< PetePorty> I know, I can program basic stuff.
20110130 19:17:30< Aethaeryn> Mathematics that requires some knowledge of programming.
20110130 19:17:37< PetePorty> I want to program good stuff.
20110130 19:17:39< Aethaeryn> But it's more like the study of computation, algorithms, data structures, etc.
20110130 19:17:47< Aethaeryn> Heavily mathy, theoretical stuff.
20110130 19:17:51< PetePorty> And since I am well aware my brain can't do it by itself, I need classes.
20110130 19:17:56< Aethaeryn> Either that or heavily management software development stuff.
20110130 19:18:02< VurtualRuler98> PetePorty, it can.
20110130 19:18:05< VurtualRuler98> Just apply yourself.
20110130 19:18:08< ancestral> I'm a script monkey
20110130 19:18:10< VurtualRuler98> Like, get ioquake3, and mess with it.
20110130 19:18:11< Aethaeryn> You don't go to college to code, you go to college to do something with programming.
20110130 19:18:11< ancestral> I like scripting
20110130 19:18:14-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@29.138.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110130 19:18:20< VurtualRuler98> HEY
20110130 19:18:24< Aethaeryn> ancestral: I love scripting languages.
20110130 19:18:24< VurtualRuler98> Who wants to go play UT2K4?
20110130 19:18:44< ancestral> Perl, JavaScript, AppleScript, whatever
20110130 19:18:52< PetePorty> It's the same reason why I go to school, because I can't do it by myself.
20110130 19:19:09< joo> Reading random articles on the internet isn't a very efficient way to absorb knowledge
20110130 19:19:10< VurtualRuler98> Well, I didn't school much, because I did do it myself.
20110130 19:19:21< VurtualRuler98> I am also a strong believer in not whining about things and just doing them.
20110130 19:19:22< joo> And I have a limited lifespan
20110130 19:19:23< Aethaeryn> Again, it's not the programming that's important.
20110130 19:19:26< Aethaeryn> It's all about theory.
20110130 19:19:35< VurtualRuler98> Nobody's really that special. Which is good, because people can do amazing things, stop not being awesome.
20110130 19:19:41< VurtualRuler98> EVERYTHING I SEE LOOKS LIKE CRYSIS NOW
20110130 19:19:45< Aethaeryn> joo: Really, it's my realization of morality that has lead me to box my Xbox away.
20110130 19:19:57< VurtualRuler98> EVEN THIS IRC CHANNEL LOOKS LIKE CRYSIS
20110130 19:20:01< Aethaeryn> I haven't touched my Xbox since January 2010
20110130 19:20:04< VurtualRuler98> It's burnt into my eyes.
20110130 19:20:07< Aethaeryn> I have only gotten one B since January 2010
20110130 19:20:14< joo> Uh
20110130 19:20:20< Aethaeryn> Sure, games are fun, but they take a lot of time. A *ton* of time.
20110130 19:20:24< joo> Aethaeryn, and how does that pertain to what I was saying?
20110130 19:20:27< VurtualRuler98> Games taught me how to fire a rifle.
20110130 19:20:33< Aethaeryn> < joo> And I have a limited lifespan
20110130 19:20:37< joo> Oh
20110130 19:20:37< joo> Right
20110130 19:20:39< VurtualRuler98> They taught me how to build a helicopter, how to fly a helicopter, and how to blow up a helicopter.
20110130 19:20:40< Aethaeryn> joo: I don't want to sit around and eat up most of my time.
20110130 19:20:48< Aethaeryn> I want to learn while I am still young and still can.
20110130 19:21:07< Aethaeryn> I want to pick up piano again, maybe learn chess again, triple major, get a masters degree, etc.
20110130 19:21:10< joo> VurtualRuler98, what game taught you how to build a helicopter?
20110130 19:21:15< Aethaeryn> Then when I've accomplished a lot...
20110130 19:21:19< VurtualRuler98> Garry's Mod+fin tool.
20110130 19:21:20< PetePorty> Sincerely, my RL friends think I'm a computer genius because I know how to use most MS programs decently. Then I met people in here, and found out I don't know shit.
20110130 19:21:23< Aethaeryn> Then I'll consider being lazy again
20110130 19:21:31< VurtualRuler98> I had to make pretty much every tiny part work perfectly, or else.
20110130 19:21:43< VurtualRuler98> PetePorty, you need to level up more.
20110130 19:21:46< joo> O_O
20110130 19:21:50-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@99.4.145.156] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 19:21:53< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: 90% of people don't give a damn. 90% of the rest are content with being power users.
20110130 19:21:53< PetePorty> I hate grinding.
20110130 19:21:59< joo> I doubt that's very applicable to actually building a helicopter
20110130 19:22:14< VurtualRuler98> Actually knowing how evey part is supposed to work helps.
20110130 19:22:28< Aethaeryn> joo: My point is that I only live once and getting good at video games really accomplish nothing.
20110130 19:22:51< Aethaeryn> I'm not opposed to *making* games. They're a fun way to get programming experience and probably my only way to profit on apps since people'll actually pay for those.
20110130 19:23:00-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@29.138.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 19:23:07< Aethaeryn> I just don't think that spending most of my time *playing* games is being very time efficient.
20110130 19:23:21< VurtualRuler98> I learned to have friends and became culturally relevant with games.
20110130 19:23:24< VurtualRuler98> Also, super reflexes.
20110130 19:23:45< Aethaeryn> Yeah, but cut off the games...
20110130 19:23:51< Aethaeryn> And you have so much free time you don't know what to do.
20110130 19:23:55< Aethaeryn> Then you realize why people do games, drugs, etc.
20110130 19:24:06< Aethaeryn> It's a lot easier to occupy your time with entertainment than to learn.
20110130 19:24:14< Aethaeryn> But honestly, once you get past a certain point in learning, it gets fun.
20110130 19:24:36< Aethaeryn> Once you get past the boring intro stuff, you realize that it's basically a game to do this kind of stuff.
20110130 19:24:50< Aethaeryn> The reason why people program is because it's like writing a poem.
20110130 19:24:58< Aethaeryn> The harder the program is to get running, the more the thrill when it works, too.
20110130 19:25:19< Aethaeryn> There's really a high in academic pursuits. It's just harder to get.
20110130 19:25:48< Aethaeryn> Anyone can play a game or party or whatever. No, what distinguishes you is to get to the point where something like mathematics is fun.
20110130 19:25:56< Aethaeryn> 99% of people will never enjoy mathematics.
20110130 19:27:43< Aethaeryn> I don't mean to criticize people for playing games, I still play games, just nowhere near as much as I used to. I mostly program games at this point.
20110130 19:28:10< Aethaeryn> But it's something that won't distinguish you from the masses. The time spent playing games could instead be spent on some accomplishment of some sort.
20110130 19:29:48< grzywacz> This discussion is most amusing...
20110130 19:31:06< VurtualRuler98> ok back from outsiding what did I "miss"
20110130 19:31:29-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@dhip-033.wireless.cotter.colby.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20110130 19:31:31< VurtualRuler98> none of you interested in UT2K4? What about Q3A?
20110130 19:31:55< grzywacz> ET:QW
20110130 19:32:06< Aethaeryn> I prefer the original ET
20110130 19:32:13< Aethaeryn> Wolfenstein ET was a great game
20110130 19:32:18< Aethaeryn> especially the servers that had new maps
20110130 19:32:23< Aethaeryn> since the default 6 got old after a while
20110130 19:32:24< grzywacz> Original ET was awesome, but nowdays it's full of silly mods and idiots.
20110130 19:32:26< Aethaeryn> Some of the new maps were really creative
20110130 19:32:28< zookeeper> was? still is. too bad there's not much good servers anymore.
20110130 19:32:31-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110130 19:32:33< Aethaeryn> Well, yeah
20110130 19:32:34< grzywacz> At least I've been unable to find any good servers anymore.
20110130 19:32:43< zookeeper> i've never liked to play anything but the default 6.
20110130 19:32:45< Aethaeryn> The problem is that people chase after the shiny now stuff
20110130 19:32:52< grzywacz> zookeeper, exactly.
20110130 19:32:56< zookeeper> and i've been playing the game for, what, 5 years?
20110130 19:33:06< grzywacz> Last time I tried playing ET I was repeatedly TKed for doing objectives.
20110130 19:33:13< grzywacz> Because they were there to shoot stuff.
20110130 19:33:17< VurtualRuler98> yeah I have this Q3A server and this UT2K4 server, not doing anything.
20110130 19:33:21< grzywacz> ET:QW has a healthy community and the same gameplay style.
20110130 19:33:40< Aethaeryn> I don't like playing a game for a long period of time
20110130 19:33:48< Aethaeryn> I'm guilty for my part in helping to kill the original ET
20110130 19:33:54< grzywacz> ;-)
20110130 19:33:56< Aethaeryn> After about a year, maybe two at most, I move on from most games
20110130 19:34:10-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@dhip-033.wireless.cotter.colby.edu] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 19:34:39< VurtualRuler98> but Q3A is still fun!
20110130 19:34:43< grzywacz> Boring.
20110130 19:35:03< grzywacz> I need teamplay to have fun nowdays. ;)
20110130 19:35:16< VurtualRuler98> Q3:TA
20110130 19:35:24< grzywacz> And there's nothing like driving an Humvee clone in ET:QW, full of people shooting at everything.
20110130 19:35:25< grzywacz> :D
20110130 19:35:58< grzywacz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn46nkz7qZ4 :p
20110130 19:36:52< Aethaeryn> I like objectives-based team FPS games more than just shoot-everything-that-moves FPS games
20110130 19:37:07< Aethaeryn> Besides, makes sniping easier ;-)
20110130 19:38:28< grzywacz> Then come play with us. :D
20110130 19:39:04< VurtualRuler98> Aethaeryn should I start up the UT2K4 onslaught server then?
20110130 19:40:26< VurtualRuler98> seriously I spend all this time learning to take on even godlike bots, then I realize nobody plays anymore
20110130 19:40:38< grzywacz> That's surely an awesome skill to have. ;)
20110130 19:42:04< VurtualRuler98> no seriously every single time I look at this IRC window, I see only Crysis.
20110130 19:45:29< Aethaeryn> k
20110130 19:45:43< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: why bother, though?
20110130 19:46:07< VurtualRuler98> with what?
20110130 19:46:13< Aethaeryn> If the difference between good enough to have fun and good enough to destroy anything is 13 hours a day, why not just spend the time on a secondary skill?
20110130 19:46:23< Aethaeryn> Sometimes being the best just isn't worth the time investment
20110130 19:46:29< Aethaeryn> When good enough is good enough
20110130 19:46:30< VurtualRuler98> Because why learn a secondary skill?
20110130 19:46:37< Aethaeryn> Balance
20110130 19:46:40< VurtualRuler98> ...for?
20110130 19:46:41< Aethaeryn> Specialization is for ants
20110130 19:46:59< VurtualRuler98> I can do an amazing array of things already, and being second-best is never good enough.
20110130 19:47:07< Aethaeryn> Sure specialization helps society at large (if you specialize in something that does so), but acquiring a lot of different talents to good enough level helps yourself.
20110130 19:47:08< PetePorty> ...
20110130 19:47:16-!- rork [~quassel@ip4da9d28f.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 19:47:35< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Are you one of those "If I can't be perfect I'm not going to bother trying it" kind of people?
20110130 19:47:43< PetePorty> ...I'd much rather be the second best at 20 different tasks than the best player of some FPS.
20110130 19:48:05< PetePorty> Just throwing this up here.
20110130 19:48:17< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: eww... leave the chan before throwing up please
20110130 19:48:36< VurtualRuler98> Aethaeryn, no.
20110130 19:48:44< PetePorty> Aethaeryn: I say the same thing, but it seems like alcohool lacks social skills.
20110130 19:48:49< VurtualRuler98> The kind of person who, if they aren't perfect at something
20110130 19:48:52< VurtualRuler98> they will become perfect
20110130 19:48:53< VurtualRuler98> No buts about it.
20110130 19:49:22< PetePorty> ...
20110130 19:49:30< deekay> Perfection in a computer game isn't something I'd waste time of my life for.
20110130 19:49:36< PetePorty> [15:47:41] <PetePorty> ...I'd much rather be the second best at 20 different tasks than the best player of some FPS.
20110130 19:49:39< PetePorty> Exactly.
20110130 19:50:19 * deekay senses a... Flame War(tm)
20110130 19:50:20-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 19:50:24< VurtualRuler98> Also, people seem to forget that superhuman reflexes are universal.
20110130 19:50:27< deekay> And the noy came ;p
20110130 19:50:34< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: finite amount of hours
20110130 19:50:39< VurtualRuler98> There's all sorts of medical benefits for it.
20110130 19:50:44< Aethaeryn> I *could* do all sorts of things.
20110130 19:50:47< VurtualRuler98> Like, extremely overpowered, akuma-like benefits.
20110130 19:50:53< Aethaeryn> I choose to do a handful of things to spend my time on.
20110130 19:50:59< VurtualRuler98> dodging cars while zipping around on a bicycle and slamming into things unhurt.
20110130 19:51:12< noy> hi
20110130 19:51:15< VurtualRuler98> being able to well outpreform everyone at everything.
20110130 19:51:18< deekay> hi there
20110130 19:51:19< PetePorty> Hello noy.
20110130 19:51:19< VurtualRuler98> yeah it pays off
20110130 19:51:20< Aethaeryn> So?
20110130 19:51:24< PetePorty> Please don't kill us.
20110130 19:51:32< VurtualRuler98> Do the one thing a lot, and then you can do everything well.
20110130 19:51:36< VurtualRuler98> Also, it's fun, so there.
20110130 19:51:36< deekay> <VurtualRuler98> being able to well outpreform everyone at everything
20110130 19:51:40< deekay> Wow, that...
20110130 19:51:42< Aethaeryn> I'd rather be content to know that I could major or minor in 10-15 different things
20110130 19:51:46< deekay> Man you're amazing!
20110130 19:51:49< Aethaeryn> But I'm not going to major in 10-15 different things
20110130 19:51:52< VurtualRuler98> deekay, I'm actually trying, actively, to come up with something I can't do well.
20110130 19:51:55< VurtualRuler98> No, really.
20110130 19:52:05< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Anyone given enough time can do something well.
20110130 19:52:06< Aethaeryn> Duh.
20110130 19:52:13< Aethaeryn> The question is if the time's worth it.
20110130 19:52:17< VurtualRuler98> Like, I've never really drawn anything before.
20110130 19:52:23< deekay> Try maybe... not bragging about what you can do. :)
20110130 19:52:24< Aethaeryn> If I spent 17 hours a day on piano, which is as much as you claim to spend on shooters...
20110130 19:52:25< VurtualRuler98> but I can apparently draw things, too.
20110130 19:52:30< deekay> May be hard, but will pay off!
20110130 19:52:32< Aethaeryn> I'd be an excellent concert pianist in 5 years
20110130 19:52:36< Aethaeryn> But is it worth 17 hours a day?
20110130 19:52:41< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: then get your lazy ass working and do art for Wesnoth.
20110130 19:52:48< Aethaeryn> Given enough time, most people are capable of *anything*
20110130 19:52:49< VurtualRuler98> nah.
20110130 19:52:53< Aethaeryn> At least most fairly intelligent people
20110130 19:53:00< VurtualRuler98> You seem to have plenty of artism-spectrum people.
20110130 19:53:07< Aethaeryn> That doesn't mean you *should* do it
20110130 19:53:13< VurtualRuler98> yeah, but games are like the EVE learning skills.
20110130 19:53:14< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: not enough artists in Wesnoth
20110130 19:53:18< VurtualRuler98> But also multiple skills on their own.
20110130 19:53:30< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: my point is that games aren't worth it
20110130 19:53:33< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: give it a try.
20110130 19:53:33< Aethaeryn> There's no social benefit.
20110130 19:53:34< VurtualRuler98> Better than reading books.
20110130 19:53:40< Aethaeryn> I could spend 5-8 hours learning a game
20110130 19:53:41< VurtualRuler98> or should we stop reading books, too?
20110130 19:53:44< Aethaeryn> or I could spend 5-8 hours learning French
20110130 19:53:48< PetePorty> Make ONE single portrait worthy of Wesnoth.
20110130 19:53:49< Aethaeryn> French will provide me some benefit.
20110130 19:53:55< Aethaeryn> I get absolutely nothing out of mastering a game
20110130 19:53:57< deekay> VurtualRuler98:  "Better" is relative.
20110130 19:54:00< Aethaeryn> French could get me laid.
20110130 19:54:04< Aethaeryn> 5-8 hours a day on a game couldn't.
20110130 19:54:08< VurtualRuler98> gaming got me laid.
20110130 19:54:16< VurtualRuler98> my girlfriend finds it hot, apparently
20110130 19:54:22< PetePorty> Uh huh.
20110130 19:54:23< Aethaeryn> ugh
20110130 19:54:32 * deekay grabs some popcorn
20110130 19:54:34< Aethaeryn> My point is that you could be a James Bond.
20110130 19:54:40< Aethaeryn> If you spent your time on all the things that James Bond is good at.
20110130 19:54:47< Aethaeryn> Then you wouldn't need a girlfriend.
20110130 19:54:53< Aethaeryn> You have shooting down.
20110130 19:54:54< VurtualRuler98> My point is that being pessimistic about how much one person is capible of will make you amount to nothing.
20110130 19:54:55< Aethaeryn> Now do the rest 
20110130 19:55:03< Aethaeryn> Right
20110130 19:55:04< VurtualRuler98> Assume a larger-than-life personality and life will reshape to fit.
20110130 19:55:06< Aethaeryn> My point is that I'm not pessimistic.
20110130 19:55:13< Aethaeryn> I agree with you 100% that given enough time, you master anything.
20110130 19:55:19< VurtualRuler98> Why spend 5-8 hours learning something, when you can easily do it in 4?
20110130 19:55:19< Aethaeryn> But I just don't agree that it should be spent entirely on games.
20110130 19:55:21< VurtualRuler98> Or 2?
20110130 19:55:23< Aethaeryn> Sure, spend it on some games.
20110130 19:55:31< Aethaeryn> Nothing's wrong with gaming
20110130 19:55:34< Aethaeryn> But moderation, man.
20110130 19:55:42< Aethaeryn> Don't do one thing 
20110130 19:55:45< Aethaeryn> Do many, many things.
20110130 19:55:47< VurtualRuler98> ...I don't.
20110130 19:55:52< Aethaeryn> uh
20110130 19:55:58< Aethaeryn> with the hours you gave, you basically have enough time to sleep
20110130 19:56:01< Aethaeryn> and IRC
20110130 19:56:02< VurtualRuler98> You assume that spending 17+ hours a day on some things doesn't mean I can't also do hours on other things.
20110130 19:56:09< VurtualRuler98> Sleep is for the weak. Massive multitasking.
20110130 19:56:12< Aethaeryn> balance.
20110130 19:56:15< Aethaeryn> Balance!
20110130 19:56:20< Aethaeryn> When you're playing an RPG
20110130 19:56:21< VurtualRuler98> LISTEN I CAN DO EVERY JOB
20110130 19:56:24< Aethaeryn> Go for a balanced set
20110130 19:56:27< VurtualRuler98> I am BALANCED ENOUGH
20110130 19:56:30< Aethaeryn> Don't put it all in dexterity!
20110130 19:56:34< deekay> Mentally?
20110130 19:56:36< Aethaeryn> YOUR CHAR SHEET IS ALMOST ALL IN DEXTERITY
20110130 19:56:39< Aethaeryn> Train something else!
20110130 19:56:47< VurtualRuler98> high-dex won basically every game I've ever played though.
20110130 19:57:03< deekay> Try Braid
20110130 19:57:10< VurtualRuler98> I beat braid.
20110130 19:57:14< deekay> Good
20110130 19:57:36< PetePorty> Ok, lets explain it using a game metaphor. PetePorty's stats= cooking:10/hunting:10/gaming:10/dancing:10 VurtualRuler98's stats=cooking:1/hunting:1/gaming:20/dancing:1
20110130 19:57:43< PetePorty> My set of stats is sooooo mcuh better.
20110130 19:57:47< VurtualRuler98> PetePorty, that's...
20110130 19:57:49< VurtualRuler98> You're generalizing.
20110130 19:57:52< VurtualRuler98> Way too much.
20110130 19:57:52< PetePorty> ^_^
20110130 19:57:54< deekay> lol
20110130 19:57:56< VurtualRuler98> It's racist and offensive.
20110130 19:58:02< PetePorty> Nay, it isn't.
20110130 19:58:13< VurtualRuler98> the PC gaming master race of course.
20110130 19:58:16< PetePorty> How can it be raciist?
20110130 19:58:18< VurtualRuler98> Simulator-hours count as games. MIlitary simulation hours count as games.
20110130 19:58:30< VurtualRuler98> AA2 also counts as a game, and that taught people skills that have repeatedly saved lives.
20110130 19:58:39< PetePorty> OH my god...
20110130 19:58:49< deekay> AA2 xD
20110130 19:58:52 * deekay rolls
20110130 19:58:55< VurtualRuler98> medic trainiiiing
20110130 19:58:59< deekay> Sure, real war simulator
20110130 19:59:02< deekay> Yes, sure
20110130 19:59:04< VurtualRuler98> no, no, the medic training part.
20110130 19:59:10< PetePorty> I play Trauma Center a lot, I'll go open up a person and save their lives!
20110130 19:59:12< VurtualRuler98> the annoying hyper-realistic test, to press the use key on people.
20110130 19:59:25< VurtualRuler98> ...where they copied down actual army medical tests.
20110130 19:59:25< deekay> PetePorty:  I'll call you once I feel bad.
20110130 19:59:31< PetePorty> deekay: Ok.
20110130 19:59:36< VurtualRuler98> ...which means you're ragging on actual field medics, too.
20110130 19:59:42< VurtualRuler98> also brb googling a story
20110130 19:59:45< PetePorty> I need a photon laser thing that heals immediately, do you have one of those?
20110130 20:00:00< PetePorty> ^_^
20110130 20:00:05< VurtualRuler98> No, but Ican control an airway.
20110130 20:00:12< PetePorty> OFC.
20110130 20:00:21< PetePorty> I  can drink lava.
20110130 20:00:22< deekay> Do you have a license?
20110130 20:00:37< deekay> Doesn't matter - he CAN.
20110130 20:00:44< deekay> I can fly.
20110130 20:00:46< deekay> Literally.
20110130 20:00:49< VurtualRuler98> so far the only sources I've found are fox news and a forum post.
20110130 20:00:54< deekay> But I just don't want to.
20110130 20:01:07< PetePorty> I can do anything.
20110130 20:01:11-!- Mussious [~kamil@dfh181.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20110130 20:01:15< PetePorty> Anything at all.
20110130 20:01:28< VurtualRuler98> doublechecking validity of story
20110130 20:01:29< deekay> PetePorty:  You can be racist for telling people that gaming isn't everything. that's for sure!
20110130 20:01:47< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, have you considered becoming a professional troll? Like, for moneys?
20110130 20:01:51< PetePorty> deekay: Ah, sorry, I had a misconception of racism.
20110130 20:01:54< VurtualRuler98> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLzTMU79UH8 eehh here look at that
20110130 20:01:55< PetePorty> >.<
20110130 20:02:00< deekay> ^^
20110130 20:02:01< VurtualRuler98> skip a lot.
20110130 20:02:19< VurtualRuler98> I can verify that said tests are way too creepy realistic.
20110130 20:02:51< deekay> After 100hs of shootinh one even doesn't remember proper answers
20110130 20:03:02< deekay> But can be sure to heal with a use button
20110130 20:03:07< VurtualRuler98> but...
20110130 20:03:14< deekay> There is no but
20110130 20:03:15< VurtualRuler98> I actually have verification of my point :|
20110130 20:03:20< PetePorty> He spent 13 hours a day playing a video game and saved a life...
20110130 20:03:21< deekay> I'm ALWAYS right.
20110130 20:03:37< PetePorty> You can spend 8 a day studying in med school and save thousands.
20110130 20:03:59< VurtualRuler98> Yeah, but the test only really appears once.
20110130 20:04:00< PetePorty> ^_^
20110130 20:04:15< VurtualRuler98> ...it'll probably take you a while to get through it, but that's it.
20110130 20:04:29< VurtualRuler98> But anyways, games are not just some mindless waste.
20110130 20:04:42< PetePorty> Really now... I'd much rather have militar experts fighting for me than someone who plays CoD
20110130 20:04:57< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Games are not a mindless waste of time.
20110130 20:05:02< VurtualRuler98> I learned a lot about history from CIV IV. And I learned a lot about USMC tactics from ARMA 2.
20110130 20:05:05< grzywacz> I don't recall anyone making statements about mindless waste, but I'm glad you made your point seem valid this way :D
20110130 20:05:09< Aethaeryn> In fact, intelligent people turn to games for entertainment because they're the only waste of time that isn't mindless.
20110130 20:05:20< Aethaeryn> Television, social networking, drugs...
20110130 20:05:26< Aethaeryn> Most of that shit doesn't stimulate the mind like gaming can.
20110130 20:05:34< Aethaeryn> Gaming is like crack-cocaine for the intellectual
20110130 20:05:35< VurtualRuler98> America's Army helped teach me how hard it is to sneak past people.
20110130 20:05:45< Aethaeryn> It still isn't a time-efficient way of learning.
20110130 20:05:48< grzywacz> xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
20110130 20:05:54 * grzywacz cleans his screen
20110130 20:05:55< Aethaeryn> Gaming is one of the most time-inefficient things you can do.
20110130 20:06:01< deekay> Clean mine too xD
20110130 20:06:05< PetePorty> Agreed.
20110130 20:06:09< Tomsik> what the hell
20110130 20:06:12< grzywacz> Tomsik, Xd
20110130 20:06:51< Aethaeryn> So yeah, you can learn things from gaming, but please don't game to learn things.
20110130 20:06:57< Aethaeryn> Gaming is what you do when you have time to kill, and not what to live for.
20110130 20:06:59< VurtualRuler98> I... but...
20110130 20:07:12< VurtualRuler98> In one presidential term I've acquired immense knowledge from games alone. :|
20110130 20:07:13< Aethaeryn> When you want to learn, direct methods are almost always faster than indirect methods.
20110130 20:07:20< Tomsik> Games are another form of distraction
20110130 20:07:23< VurtualRuler98> It's not a question of "if", because if I didn't...
20110130 20:07:29< VurtualRuler98> then I'd just, not know these things.
20110130 20:07:38< Tomsik> There's ONE game that isn't a waste of time, maybe
20110130 20:07:39< Aethaeryn> Games are what I do in between semesters because studying 100% of the time on breaks will lead to burnout
20110130 20:07:45< VurtualRuler98> What's more direct about learning how to fly than jumping into a plane, Aethaeryn?
20110130 20:07:58< PetePorty> OMG...
20110130 20:08:01< grzywacz> I'm slightly afraid you're not the one qualified to judge the immensness of your knowledge, but move along. ;-)
20110130 20:08:10< Tomsik> http://eterna.cmu.edu/content/EteRNA
20110130 20:08:12< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: You can learn how to shoot a gun or fly a plane with games, but unless you're going to do it in RL, you're just wasting time.
20110130 20:08:14< deekay> no, no
20110130 20:08:14< Tomsik> This cool shit
20110130 20:08:19< VurtualRuler98> I do!
20110130 20:08:22< Aethaeryn> It's more useful to learn how to do <insert thing that gets you a job>
20110130 20:08:23< deekay> I'd seriously puh him into plane, alone
20110130 20:08:27< deekay> And make him fly
20110130 20:08:30< VurtualRuler98> But this can apply to everything!
20110130 20:08:36< VurtualRuler98> And with the scope of gaming, I can learn a lot!
20110130 20:08:40< grzywacz> deekay, why waste a perfectly good plane? :<
20110130 20:08:41< PetePorty> Oh... My... God...
20110130 20:08:43< VurtualRuler98> I wouldn't know how to drive at all otherwise.
20110130 20:08:43< Aethaeryn> deekay: Like in Snakes on a Plane?
20110130 20:08:46< Aethaeryn> Where the gamer lands the plane?
20110130 20:08:52< deekay> Yes!
20110130 20:09:03< VurtualRuler98> deekay, I'd need the startup sequences, duh.
20110130 20:09:10< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: If there's ever motherfucking snakes on a motherfucking plane you're on, you can land it if you don't get killed.
20110130 20:09:14< Aethaeryn> There you go, direct utility.
20110130 20:09:23< VurtualRuler98> Then, if we're already in the air, call up the ATC and get help.
20110130 20:09:25< PetePorty> Don't worry guys, I used to play Space Invaders a lot when I was younger, whenever the aliens come to invade us, I'll protect you all.
20110130 20:09:41< grzywacz> PetePorty, good, we're couting on ya!
20110130 20:09:45< grzywacz> *counting
20110130 20:09:49< joo> I like to play wesnoth
20110130 20:09:52< Aethaeryn> Don't get me wrong, games are *great*
20110130 20:09:58< PetePorty> To become a war general, joo?
20110130 20:09:59< Aethaeryn> I love both playing *and* making games.
20110130 20:09:59< joo> I'll lead our army of elves to victory
20110130 20:10:07< VurtualRuler98> I also shot better than a bunch of extremely well-seasoned hunters the first time I ever had a gun, when I was younger. Games.
20110130 20:10:08< PetePorty> ^_^
20110130 20:10:09< Aethaeryn> I just need a day job
20110130 20:10:16< Aethaeryn> And I need to do something that has concrete real-world accomplishments.
20110130 20:10:16< deekay> I'll just troll around.
20110130 20:10:17< grzywacz> >:-D 
20110130 20:10:22< VurtualRuler98> And if knowing how to shoot well isn't a good skill in rural America, then I don't know what is.
20110130 20:10:38< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: I'm not arguing against games, here. I'm not Fox News.
20110130 20:10:43< Aethaeryn> I'm arguing that you should balance your time.
20110130 20:10:48< grzywacz> Try shooting a bear with your mouse. Maybe you can knock in unconscious with over 9000 gits, who knows.
20110130 20:10:49< VurtualRuler98> My skills are useful.
20110130 20:10:51< VurtualRuler98> They are applicable, and important.
20110130 20:10:53< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: except when your gun jams
20110130 20:10:53< grzywacz> *it
20110130 20:10:55< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: no they're not.
20110130 20:10:57< Tomsik> there's no unjam key
20110130 20:10:57< grzywacz> My spelling fails today. :D
20110130 20:11:05< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: You need balance, man.
20110130 20:11:10< grzywacz> Tomsik, nooooo, don't shatter his world :D
20110130 20:11:13< VurtualRuler98> They... are.
20110130 20:11:13< Aethaeryn> Do what the rest of us do.
20110130 20:11:23< VurtualRuler98> If having to deal with computers all the time doesn't help too, then this world is messed up
20110130 20:11:28< Aethaeryn> Get a full-time job or go to school so you can land a full-time job. And then game when you're not working.
20110130 20:11:31< Aethaeryn> That balances it.
20110130 20:11:45< deekay> Yes, word from 40+ years ago was so messed up.
20110130 20:11:46< Aethaeryn> Because you get more social interaction, and you learn a trade that leads to lots of $$$
20110130 20:11:47< Tomsik> Math is the best game of all
20110130 20:11:49< deekay> world even
20110130 20:11:49< Aethaeryn> They're complementary.
20110130 20:11:54< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: amen to that.
20110130 20:11:55< Tomsik> It has all difficulty levels
20110130 20:11:57< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: when you get cancer, (I hope you don't, but *if* you do.) Go to a gamer, it's much better than a doctor.
20110130 20:12:01< Aethaeryn> Well, besides math homework at school.
20110130 20:12:05< Tomsik> It's even a sandbox game if you want
20110130 20:12:08< VurtualRuler98> Now can we stop being retarded?
20110130 20:12:09< Aethaeryn> But math is like a puzzle that is never complete.
20110130 20:12:12< Aethaeryn> If you ever do recreational math.
20110130 20:12:22< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: sure, as soon as you do.
20110130 20:12:22< Aethaeryn> Very easy to abuse recreational math once you get the hang of it.
20110130 20:12:24< VurtualRuler98> I am actively successful at doing things, and very knowledged in many fields. There's no "get a job"
20110130 20:12:24< PetePorty> ^_^
20110130 20:12:29< VurtualRuler98> I am intentionally, consciously jobless.
20110130 20:12:41< VurtualRuler98> For many, many reasons.
20110130 20:12:42< Tomsik> That's what everyone says.
20110130 20:12:45< grzywacz> Yeah, can we stop being retarded please?
20110130 20:12:46< grzywacz> :D
20110130 20:12:48< PetePorty> Heh.
20110130 20:12:57< Tomsik> That's what everyone says too.
20110130 20:13:00< deekay> VurtualRuler98:  Who plays for your expenses?
20110130 20:13:02-!- rork [~quassel@ip4da9d28f.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110130 20:13:06< grzywacz> *pays :p
20110130 20:13:07< deekay> err pays, typo :D
20110130 20:13:08< VurtualRuler98> My family is rather well off.
20110130 20:13:21< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: I don't care if your job earns $0.
20110130 20:13:22< VurtualRuler98> like I'm going to ignore a free room and 2mbit DSL
20110130 20:13:28< Aethaeryn> Volunteer at a non-profit if that's what you want.
20110130 20:13:44< Aethaeryn> The whole point of a job isn't to make money, it's to contribute to society.
20110130 20:13:49< VurtualRuler98> Technically, I also go and fix things when they break. Is that "job" enough for your morals?
20110130 20:13:54< Aethaeryn> Everyone has an urge to work, even when they don't have to work to live.
20110130 20:13:58< VurtualRuler98> Going around and helping people and preventing suicide, too.
20110130 20:14:02< VurtualRuler98> Is that contributive enough?
20110130 20:14:03< Tomsik> You'd better acquire currency before your government goes nuts
20110130 20:14:07< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, nope.
20110130 20:14:20< grzywacz> Tomsik, foreign currency ;p
20110130 20:14:28< deekay> Or gold.
20110130 20:14:31< Tomsik> Or guns
20110130 20:14:32< grzywacz> Gold teeth.
20110130 20:14:37< deekay> Or games.
20110130 20:14:38< VurtualRuler98> Now, the last thing I need to worry about is anarchy.
20110130 20:14:40< PetePorty> Must.Not.Facedesk.
20110130 20:14:42< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: The point isn't "Get a job because you make a living" it's "Get a job to do something constructive and set a legacy"
20110130 20:14:50< deekay> PetePorty:  Stay with us. :)
20110130 20:14:52< grzywacz> PetePorty, go ahead, maybe you'll learn something.
20110130 20:14:53< VurtualRuler98> I am constructive!
20110130 20:14:55< Aethaeryn> People don't do tech startups to pay their bills.
20110130 20:15:00< Aethaeryn> They do stuff like that because they want to leave a mark.
20110130 20:15:01-!- HosenJack [~FYMLIFYM@ip-62-143-120-102.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110130 20:15:12< Aethaeryn> If a hardcore gamer dies, they won't be remembered for their hardcore gaming.
20110130 20:15:19< VurtualRuler98> fatal1ty.
20110130 20:15:23< Aethaeryn> You can't overspecialize in something that society doesn't recognize.
20110130 20:15:24< VurtualRuler98> He's a name brand bro
20110130 20:15:25< deekay> Oh, he isn't loogin on. Too bad.
20110130 20:15:31< grzywacz> Aethaeryn, but... but... that will sure entertain the public of failblog.
20110130 20:15:36< grzywacz> *surely
20110130 20:15:39< VurtualRuler98> People generally turn to me for psychiatric help, too, and I'm apparently internet famous according to a few.
20110130 20:15:43< Aethaeryn> Yes, game 12 hours a day if you want. But at least work for 6 hours.
20110130 20:15:45< Aethaeryn> At something.
20110130 20:15:45< VurtualRuler98> People look up to me, and I help people. Is that good enoug?
20110130 20:15:50< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, no.
20110130 20:16:00< VurtualRuler98> At what point am I entitled to occasionally play a game two days straight?
20110130 20:16:03< deekay> It's not like *you* help people.
20110130 20:16:06< VurtualRuler98> Whereupon I have fit your imaginary rules?
20110130 20:16:13< grzywacz> :D
20110130 20:16:13< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: The point is to leave one's comfort zone and do something for society and for oneself.
20110130 20:16:16< deekay> You are being used for that purpose, that's different.
20110130 20:16:23< VurtualRuler98> I... do.
20110130 20:16:27< deekay> No.
20110130 20:16:27< grzywacz> Yeah, you're a tool!
20110130 20:16:34< VurtualRuler98> "DO THIS THING" "BUT I'M DOING IT" "NO GO DO IT" "BUT I AM" "SHUT UP"
20110130 20:16:44< PetePorty> You are NOT doing it.
20110130 20:16:46< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: The point is to have a job of some sort.
20110130 20:16:49< grzywacz> Don't listen to these voices.
20110130 20:16:55< Aethaeryn> If you don't need money to live, then you don't need a real job.
20110130 20:17:00< PetePorty> YOU'RE ALL CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!
20110130 20:17:03< grzywacz> OMG!!!
20110130 20:17:04 * PetePorty jumps around naked
20110130 20:17:07< Aethaeryn> But then volunteer at something for at least 20 hours a week, like a parttime job would do.
20110130 20:17:12< Aethaeryn> i.e. Do something.
20110130 20:17:19< deekay> PetePorty:  You contribute to.... to... hm.
20110130 20:17:20< VurtualRuler98> I DO DO THINGS
20110130 20:17:22< VurtualRuler98> GAAAGH
20110130 20:17:25< Aethaeryn> Recurring and formal!
20110130 20:17:31< Tomsik> I diddle do diddle do
20110130 20:17:33< Aethaeryn> i.e. get involved with a nonprofit.
20110130 20:17:35< Tomsik> banga banga
20110130 20:17:36< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, animals do things too!
20110130 20:17:41< VurtualRuler98> Can you people PLEASE stop trying to act like I do nothing?
20110130 20:17:42< PetePorty> deekay: currently translating Wesnoth, learning to program and going to school
20110130 20:17:43< Aethaeryn> It can be the EFF or the FSF or something
20110130 20:17:49< Aethaeryn> Or something entirely online
20110130 20:17:52< Aethaeryn> Just something 
20110130 20:17:53< deekay> PetePorty:  Better play some shooter.
20110130 20:17:53< VurtualRuler98> and no, I'm not going to help a nonprofit.
20110130 20:17:55< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, not until you do something.
20110130 20:18:01< VurtualRuler98> But... I am doing things.
20110130 20:18:03< PetePorty> deekay: I'd rather learn stuff.
20110130 20:18:05-!- Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
20110130 20:18:13< VurtualRuler98> Except right now I'm dying of thirst like a real dwarf would because you're distracting me.
20110130 20:18:15< deekay> PetePorty:  But you will by playing!
20110130 20:18:28-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@dhip-033.wireless.cotter.colby.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20110130 20:18:28< deekay> PetePorty:  With only 26h/day you can be best?
20110130 20:18:29< PetePorty> deekay: it's a waste of time.
20110130 20:18:40< PetePorty> Heh.
20110130 20:18:42< deekay> PetePorty:  Sorry, 2nd best, there is already one best here.
20110130 20:18:54< PetePorty> Really, there was a time when I played 25 hours a day.
20110130 20:18:55< VurtualRuler98> Gaming taught me the vital skill of analysis, which then extended to everything. Then I learned how to do mods, which taught me a massive array of skills.
20110130 20:19:02< PetePorty> Then I understood it was... horrible.
20110130 20:19:10< VurtualRuler98> So yeah gaming directly taught me useful things, you can suck on that, man.
20110130 20:19:18< Aethaeryn> You can learn from gaming, yes.
20110130 20:19:24< Tomsik> Dwarf?
20110130 20:19:26< PetePorty> OFC, gaming does teach things.
20110130 20:19:27< Aethaeryn> But you shouldn't just focus on one activity class.
20110130 20:19:31< VurtualRuler98> I don't.
20110130 20:19:32< PetePorty> Nobody said no to that.
20110130 20:19:34< Aethaeryn> It's just too narrow.
20110130 20:19:36< VurtualRuler98> Do I need to get out the gamelist?
20110130 20:19:38< VurtualRuler98> I'M GETTING OUT THE GAMELIST
20110130 20:19:47< deekay> OMG NOOOOO
20110130 20:19:52< Tomsik> Do I smell
20110130 20:19:55< grzywacz> Tomsik, :(
20110130 20:19:55< Tomsik> DWARF FORTRESS?
20110130 20:19:57< VurtualRuler98> http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/2821/gamelistcomposite01crop.jpg there are many genres there
20110130 20:20:04< VurtualRuler98> Tomsik, just miasma.
20110130 20:20:05< PetePorty> Omg...
20110130 20:20:08< PetePorty> OMG
20110130 20:20:11-!- Haldrik_CZ [~h539152@gw-cmo.aim-net.cz] has quit [Quit: Haldrik_CZ]
20110130 20:20:16< VurtualRuler98> also multiple irl hobbies which never came up but whatever
20110130 20:20:19-!- Haldrik [~h539152@gw-cmo.aim-net.cz] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 20:20:20< PetePorty> I... I just can't...
20110130 20:20:31< Tomsik> Mods, meh
20110130 20:20:39< Tomsik> That's not even coding.
20110130 20:20:45< Tomsik> Even less programming.
20110130 20:20:46< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, how's that impressing? ;]
20110130 20:20:56< Tomsik> And even less being a scientist. ;]
20110130 20:20:59< grzywacz> *ssive
20110130 20:21:00< deekay> That's not ever near "impressing"
20110130 20:21:09< VurtualRuler98> Tomsik, working with an existing C codebase doesn't make it somehow not C.
20110130 20:21:19< grzywacz> At this point I should sensibly decide to stop my participation, for fear of writing more broken English. :S
20110130 20:21:19< VurtualRuler98> You're still dealing with C, and you're still having to, you know, write C.
20110130 20:21:23< PetePorty> Since you're not going to listen to people on the internet, and you're entitled not to do so, I hope you listen to your parents.
20110130 20:21:28< VurtualRuler98> Also, valve will buy you up and you become rich.
20110130 20:21:36< VurtualRuler98> PetePorty, I'm generally cheered on by them.
20110130 20:21:41< PetePorty> Sure.
20110130 20:21:50< PetePorty> Until you're a 40 year old gamer without a life.
20110130 20:21:51< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: buy you up, what?
20110130 20:21:56< PetePorty> And they kick you out of the house.
20110130 20:22:07< VurtualRuler98> yeah, counter-strike, day of defeat, and team fortress were all mods.
20110130 20:22:09< deekay> We know they cheer yo already said
20110130 20:22:09< deekay> <VurtualRuler98> People generally turn to me for psychiatric help, too
20110130 20:22:19< VurtualRuler98> Now those modmakers are high-ups in valve.
20110130 20:22:35< Tomsik> Well, but they're just making games
20110130 20:22:40< PetePorty> [16:21:49] <PetePorty> Until you're a 40 year old gamer without a life.
20110130 20:22:42< VurtualRuler98> and profiting.
20110130 20:22:59< VurtualRuler98> Zoid? Remember the threewave CTF guy? Yeah, he worked on the metroid prime series. Now he works at valve, too.
20110130 20:23:05-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@dhip-164.foss.residences.colby.edu] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 20:23:06< VurtualRuler98> Literally living their dream.
20110130 20:23:14< Tomsik> Not really an achievement, making games
20110130 20:23:16< VurtualRuler98> But not valid because VIDJAMAGAMES.
20110130 20:23:24< deekay> You dream while living. That's not the same.
20110130 20:23:42< VurtualRuler98> They make plenty of money, they do what they like to do for a living, they have a relaxed job and nothing to worry about.
20110130 20:23:46< VurtualRuler98> That's pretty zen, bro!
20110130 20:23:49< PetePorty> When you're not hired by VALVe, I'll laugh.
20110130 20:23:51< PetePorty> ^_^
20110130 20:24:00< VurtualRuler98> I'll start my own company, with blackjack and hookers.
20110130 20:24:05< Tomsik> PetePorty: _as long as you're not_ :D
20110130 20:24:14< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: where will you get the money?
20110130 20:24:16< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: sure
20110130 20:24:18< VurtualRuler98> uh.
20110130 20:24:20 * VurtualRuler98 looks at money
20110130 20:24:22< PetePorty> Will you keep robbing your parents?
20110130 20:24:23< deekay> PetePorty:  Parents.
20110130 20:24:26< VurtualRuler98> I also saved up money.
20110130 20:24:26< deekay> He mentioned.
20110130 20:24:34< VurtualRuler98> Obsessively.
20110130 20:24:46< Tomsik> Do I smell assburgers?
20110130 20:24:51< PetePorty> Alright... lets see...
20110130 20:25:11< VurtualRuler98> No, but not wasting money on a thousand-dollar TV or a newer cellphone model helps make you not poor.
20110130 20:25:18< grzywacz> Tomsik, dunno, do you? :D
20110130 20:25:27< Tomsik> Face it, I'm not solving P = NP, you're not getting to Valve. :p
20110130 20:25:30< VurtualRuler98> Besides, who said my dreamjob was in gaming, PetePorty?
20110130 20:25:33< PetePorty> "I don't have a job, and never will, because I'm a lazy brat. Therefore I will make a huge game company using my daddy's money."
20110130 20:25:49< VurtualRuler98> I don't have a job now.
20110130 20:25:57< deekay> How old are you?
20110130 20:26:00< Tomsik> You said you don't plan to.
20110130 20:26:01< deekay> Just curious
20110130 20:26:01< PetePorty> You said you don't *want* a job.
20110130 20:26:04< VurtualRuler98> Right now, I'm in the middle of nowhere. I have literally infinite resources to study and learn things.
20110130 20:26:15< deekay> Cure cancer.
20110130 20:26:15< PetePorty> Yet, you're gaming.
20110130 20:26:17< Tomsik> Did you play minecraft again?
20110130 20:26:19< VurtualRuler98> later, when I'm actually beyond barely-out-of-college age area, I can actually get a job.
20110130 20:26:22< VurtualRuler98> Maybe move out, woah.
20110130 20:26:36< VurtualRuler98> Build my own house, like my father before me. Make even more bad jokes.
20110130 20:26:47< deekay> You already do!
20110130 20:26:52< deekay> The latter, that is.
20110130 20:27:03< VurtualRuler98> I did the former once but it didn't turn out very well.
20110130 20:27:30< PetePorty> When you can live by yourself by gaming, that is, not using your parents' money, I will respect you.
20110130 20:27:34< Tomsik> You see, games didn't teach you how to build homes.
20110130 20:27:40< VurtualRuler98> It's not like I'm being a nuisance.
20110130 20:27:48< PetePorty> Ummm....
20110130 20:28:01< VurtualRuler98> I extensively make sure to not waste money, so it's not exactly going to kill anyone.
20110130 20:28:03< deekay> It's not like you achived anything.
20110130 20:28:17< PetePorty> If I had a 28 year old kid in my house doing nothing but playing FPS, I'd get him to do something.
20110130 20:28:18< VurtualRuler98> I CAN FLY A FIGHTER JET
20110130 20:28:21< deekay> Sure.
20110130 20:28:23< VurtualRuler98> That was like, my dream job as a kid.
20110130 20:28:24< deekay> Then fly.
20110130 20:28:26< deekay> Go and fly
20110130 20:28:28< VurtualRuler98> I HAVE
20110130 20:28:31< deekay> Who will allow you?
20110130 20:28:40< VurtualRuler98> Anyone who owns a plane with two sticks?
20110130 20:28:47< deekay> You meant a gamepad?
20110130 20:28:49< deekay> ok
20110130 20:28:53< VurtualRuler98> No, the flight stick.
20110130 20:28:55< Tomsik> Holding sticks, sounds pretty gay.
20110130 20:28:56< grzywacz> :')
20110130 20:29:05< VurtualRuler98> One on one seat, one on another.
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20110130 20:29:21< VurtualRuler98> Incase one pilot goes herpderp, you have more pilot to go around.
20110130 20:29:31< VurtualRuler98> I am not terribly kind to planes.
20110130 20:29:35< PetePorty> Dear Lord...
20110130 20:29:45< PetePorty> You don't know how to fly a jet.
20110130 20:30:11< VurtualRuler98> I... I have all the proper checklists, I've done thousands of simulator runs, I've rehearsed the proper switches.
20110130 20:30:23< PetePorty> You have never flied a jet.
20110130 20:30:45< VurtualRuler98> I also never fired a gun before a certain point, never drove before a certain point, never x before a certain point.
20110130 20:31:16< PetePorty> <deekay> Then fly.
20110130 20:31:16< PetePorty> <deekay> Go and fly
20110130 20:31:16< PetePorty> <VurtualRuler98> I HAVE
20110130 20:31:21< PetePorty> You said you had done it.
20110130 20:31:21< VurtualRuler98> A jet no
20110130 20:31:24< PetePorty> Yet you haven't.
20110130 20:31:32< Tomsik> Man, I sucked at driving cars before some practice.
20110130 20:31:32< deekay> He is sure he can.
20110130 20:31:36< deekay> That's anough.
20110130 20:31:38< deekay> For him.
20110130 20:31:40< Tomsik> Yet I was pretty good at racer games. :p
20110130 20:31:52< grzywacz> :D
20110130 20:31:58< VurtualRuler98> I still hate driving, but every time I'm involved with a vehicle, I handle them superbly well.
20110130 20:32:03< VurtualRuler98> Terrified that something is going to hit me.
20110130 20:32:05< grzywacz> xD
20110130 20:32:14< deekay> Then you are mentally weak.
20110130 20:32:29< PetePorty> My little brother has a remote control car, and he's good with it, I'll make him drive me to school.
20110130 20:32:30< grzywacz> I think I know what your problem is.
20110130 20:32:39< deekay> grzywacz:  I think we all know by now.
20110130 20:32:43< PetePorty> He's eight BTW.
20110130 20:32:56< grzywacz> deekay, :P
20110130 20:32:57< VurtualRuler98> The problem is that I'm not getting something to drink at the moment
20110130 20:33:08< PetePorty> I've found eighteen problems with him. Only three major ones though.
20110130 20:33:16< grzywacz> Most likely, due to the fact that you live in relative isolation, nobody has ever told you that you can't do anything useful. :|
20110130 20:33:31< grzywacz> ^ based on assumptions derived from the conversation to date
20110130 20:33:59< deekay> grzywacz:  Name the thing he can't do, and he will find a game related to that and master in <13h per day!
20110130 20:34:00< Tomsik> Seems like unwarranted feeling of self-awesomeness to me.
20110130 20:34:11< grzywacz> deekay, nie da rady zrozumiec tego co do Ciebie pisze. :p
20110130 20:34:42< deekay> huh?
20110130 20:34:44< PetePorty> janebot: !translate nie da rady zrozumiec tego co do Ciebie pisze.
20110130 20:34:45< janebot> PetePorty: pl to en: council can not understand what you said.
20110130 20:35:14< grzywacz> PetePorty, I'm afraid it failed ;)
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20110130 20:35:43< PetePorty> It failed?
20110130 20:35:51-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 20:36:09< grzywacz> PetePorty, that's now that I said.
20110130 20:36:11< grzywacz> *not
20110130 20:36:16< PetePorty> Hmmm...
20110130 20:36:20< PetePorty> Not even simillar?
20110130 20:36:54< grzywacz> Of course similar, google gets many parts right as usual.
20110130 20:36:56< VurtualRuler98> oh no I get the "you're useless" thing very often.
20110130 20:37:00< VurtualRuler98> like pretty much every day.
20110130 20:37:12< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, but you don't listen, because they're obviously mistaken and biased?
20110130 20:37:13< grzywacz> ;-)
20110130 20:37:19< VurtualRuler98> Because I can do things.
20110130 20:37:24< VurtualRuler98> It's not a point of arguing it, either.
20110130 20:37:28< PetePorty> ...
20110130 20:37:35< VurtualRuler98> I can just approach something and do it. Useful things, either.
20110130 20:37:58< PetePorty> ...
20110130 20:38:01< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, talk with me in Polish then.
20110130 20:38:03< VurtualRuler98> No amount of whining about the idea of a seemingly socially-retarded and unusual person being good at something will change that.
20110130 20:38:11< VurtualRuler98> grzywacz, so you can do useful things, right?
20110130 20:38:19< VurtualRuler98> Go find the higgs bson.
20110130 20:38:22< VurtualRuler98> boson*
20110130 20:38:23-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting]
20110130 20:38:26< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, that's not relevant at all ;-)
20110130 20:38:26< deekay> He does useful things.
20110130 20:38:31< VurtualRuler98> Neither is Polish.
20110130 20:38:33< PetePorty> Ok. People tell you you're useless every single day and you do nothing to change that...
20110130 20:38:34< grzywacz> haha
20110130 20:38:46< VurtualRuler98> Because I'm not really bothered about backwards people insulting me?
20110130 20:38:47< deekay> VurtualRuler98:  That was racist. ;]
20110130 20:38:58< grzywacz> Ok, thanks. I've had my share of fun, but now - off to do something *useful* :D
20110130 20:39:01< PetePorty> Wow...
20110130 20:39:10< PetePorty> It's just... sad.
20110130 20:39:11< Tomsik> Well
20110130 20:39:18< Tomsik> Let's see, aren't you kind of arrogant?
20110130 20:39:21< VurtualRuler98> They'd also yell at you.
20110130 20:39:30< VurtualRuler98> "You can program a computer? Get a job."
20110130 20:39:39< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: well, can you?
20110130 20:39:42< VurtualRuler98> Yep.
20110130 20:39:43< Tomsik> Program a computer that is.
20110130 20:39:45< PetePorty> Indeed, great job.
20110130 20:39:49< Tomsik> On what level?
20110130 20:39:54< Tomsik> Could you write a compiler?
20110130 20:39:57< PetePorty> But seriously
20110130 20:39:58< VurtualRuler98> no
20110130 20:40:01< Tomsik> Or at least a physical simulation?
20110130 20:40:04< PetePorty> Get a damn job and use your knowledge.
20110130 20:40:05< VurtualRuler98> But no matter what level, it's the same line from people.
20110130 20:40:09< Tomsik> Or maybe a relational database?
20110130 20:40:13< VurtualRuler98> WHY, PETE
20110130 20:40:21< PetePorty> USE KNOWLEDGE.
20110130 20:40:24< VurtualRuler98> WHY?
20110130 20:40:27< PetePorty> It's worthless if you don't use it.
20110130 20:40:37< Tomsik> I have a feeling that you know a language, but fail to see that there's more to programming than to language
20110130 20:40:40< VurtualRuler98> I'm not going to use most of the things I learn now
20110130 20:40:48< PetePorty> You should.
20110130 20:40:49< VurtualRuler98> Tomsik, I know lots of languages on various levels.
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20110130 20:40:58< PetePorty> If not, it's as good as not knowing them.
20110130 20:41:08< Tomsik> just as there is more to arguments than syntactic correctness
20110130 20:41:13< VurtualRuler98> My greatest weakness in programming is visualizing how to lay something out, oft hurting projects unless I'm willing to step back at first.
20110130 20:41:16< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: like?
20110130 20:41:29< Tomsik> What languages? Ruby, C?
20110130 20:41:30< VurtualRuler98> uh, C, C++, python, lua, used to try to do perl way back, hmm
20110130 20:41:37< VurtualRuler98> lua hardly counts.
20110130 20:41:51< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: wait, you can't see the structure of the program?
20110130 20:41:51< Tomsik> Well, then it's two languages
20110130 20:41:52< VurtualRuler98> and if you go by a strict definition of a "program", then I guess I'm stuck with C and C++.
20110130 20:41:56< Aethaeryn> That's the whole point.
20110130 20:42:01< VurtualRuler98> Not easily
20110130 20:42:03< Aethaeryn> Without it, you're just following someone else's design document
20110130 20:42:07< PetePorty> "I know how to make a car, yet I'll never do it, because I CBA".
20110130 20:42:13< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: that's programming, structuring thoughts, not writing them
20110130 20:42:14< Aethaeryn> Well, spend 17 hours a day doing *that*
20110130 20:42:18< PetePorty> It's the most stupid statement I've ever heard.
20110130 20:42:20< VurtualRuler98> Why would I make a car? Do I suddenly need a car?
20110130 20:42:23< Aethaeryn> and maybe in a few years you'll be an elite hacker
20110130 20:42:29< Aethaeryn> not the pop culture hacker, the free software definition of hacker
20110130 20:42:41< PetePorty> ^
20110130 20:42:46< deekay> ^
20110130 20:42:49< Tomsik> v
20110130 20:42:55< PetePorty> ^^^
20110130 20:43:00< PetePorty> A thousand times.
20110130 20:43:03< Aethaeryn> ++
20110130 20:43:18< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: you suck, you're just full of yourself, you can't even program
20110130 20:43:25< deekay> But we already know he can, but he just doesn't want to.
20110130 20:43:27< VurtualRuler98> hello mr hannibal
20110130 20:43:32< Aethaeryn> There's a difference between programming and software engineering
20110130 20:43:35< Aethaeryn> and we just hit the difference.
20110130 20:43:40< VurtualRuler98> and mrs hannibal, how is your relation working out?
20110130 20:43:45< Aethaeryn> Engineers do more than just type away in <insert programming language here>
20110130 20:43:47< PetePorty> "I can program, but I won't."
20110130 20:43:48< Aethaeryn> They design things.
20110130 20:43:49< grzywacz> Aethaeryn, I think you meant "writing code".
20110130 20:43:50< VurtualRuler98> Apparently "less good" means "unable to"
20110130 20:43:52< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: there's difference between programming, SE and writing code ;]
20110130 20:44:05< Aethaeryn> grzywacz: well, the career programmer is down and software engineering is up
20110130 20:44:11-!- Miccoh [~Miccoh@83-216-20-129.dsl.maxinetti.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20110130 20:44:13< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: no, you just don't know what's programming
20110130 20:44:13< Aethaeryn> so people don't understand the category distinction
20110130 20:44:14< VurtualRuler98> A car that is not as good at accelerating can presumably still go forward.
20110130 20:44:21< Aethaeryn> In fact, software engineering includes project management imo
20110130 20:44:27< VurtualRuler98> a door that opens a bit creaky still generally opens.
20110130 20:44:30< Aethaeryn> Those guys don't even directly touch the source code
20110130 20:44:34< Tomsik> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
20110130 20:44:36< Tomsik> Fin.
20110130 20:44:43< deekay> Sure, but not car that is made of concrete.
20110130 20:44:51< VurtualRuler98> that doesn't even loaaad
20110130 20:45:02< Tomsik> The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority.
20110130 20:45:02< deekay> Because that's what I think we do here - hit a concrete with our arguments.
20110130 20:45:10< PetePorty> You can claim you know how to fly a jet once you do.
20110130 20:45:20< grzywacz> Tomsik, I was about to link to the original article. ;)
20110130 20:45:23< grzywacz> Tomsik, damn you!
20110130 20:45:26< Tomsik> [;
20110130 20:45:44< VurtualRuler98> Go buy me a jet pls
20110130 20:45:46< VurtualRuler98> Those are expensive.
20110130 20:45:49< grzywacz> xD
20110130 20:45:50< grzywacz> Excuses.
20110130 20:45:56< deekay> Ask dad.
20110130 20:46:03< VurtualRuler98> no, that'd be a waste of money.
20110130 20:46:07< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: get a job and do it yourself.
20110130 20:46:09< Aethaeryn> Anyway, programming is the easy part.
20110130 20:46:13< VurtualRuler98> But I don't want to have a jet.
20110130 20:46:17< Aethaeryn> Higher level programming is all about efficiency.
20110130 20:46:20< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: *writing code* :)
20110130 20:46:22< VurtualRuler98> The other things I'm good at I can practice at some level, and apply.
20110130 20:46:23< grzywacz> deekay, btw. RNG is going to continue their game in a few hours. Against... CragHag :D
20110130 20:46:24< Aethaeryn> Well, sorry, not higher level programming
20110130 20:46:29< Aethaeryn> Upper level programming
20110130 20:46:31< Aethaeryn> Upper tier of skill
20110130 20:46:36< VurtualRuler98> gooder programming
20110130 20:46:37< Aethaeryn> higher level programming implies something else
20110130 20:46:43< deekay> grzywacz:  omg :)
20110130 20:46:47< deekay> How comes? :)
20110130 20:46:49< Aethaeryn> actually, the opposite of efficiency ;-)
20110130 20:47:01< grzywacz> deekay, replacement for someone
20110130 20:47:02< grzywacz> :D
20110130 20:47:05< deekay> :D
20110130 20:47:06< deekay> fun
20110130 20:47:09< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: not really
20110130 20:47:19< VurtualRuler98> Whenever I end up being involved with a text box where the contents are run, and there's a high amount of complexity, I end up tripping over myself discouragingly.
20110130 20:47:29< grzywacz> deekay, playing a ladder game atm
20110130 20:47:32< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: that's called being a sucker
20110130 20:47:34< VurtualRuler98> Which yes I am learning to avoid.
20110130 20:47:43< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: the easy algorithms aren't always the efficient ones
20110130 20:48:02< VurtualRuler98> and yes I am learning useful things and actually doing things besides playing games all day.
20110130 20:48:09< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: higher-level languages let you write more efficient algorithms in less code
20110130 20:48:10< Aethaeryn> Anyone can .sort() something in a modern programming language without training
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20110130 20:48:28< grzywacz> Not anyone, but yeah. ;)
20110130 20:48:28< VurtualRuler98> I can't
20110130 20:48:33< VurtualRuler98> "name three things that aren't jackie chan"
20110130 20:48:39< deekay> VurtualRuler98
20110130 20:48:41< Tomsik> Shoes.
20110130 20:48:46< grzywacz> Me.
20110130 20:48:47< PetePorty> pineaple
20110130 20:48:50-!- Haldrik [~h539152@gw-cmo.aim-net.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20110130 20:48:50-!- drry [~drry@HKRnf1951.tokyo-ip.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110130 20:48:52< Tomsik> Ur mom.
20110130 20:48:59< PetePorty> tomsik, wrong
20110130 20:49:02< Tomsik> Damn.
20110130 20:49:03< deekay> lol
20110130 20:49:04< grzywacz> wrong?
20110130 20:49:04< VurtualRuler98> my mother is jackie chan.
20110130 20:49:05< grzywacz> argh
20110130 20:49:07< PetePorty> ^_^
20110130 20:49:08 * VurtualRuler98 holds down the buzzer
20110130 20:49:08< grzywacz> ;]
20110130 20:49:14< Tomsik> [;
20110130 20:49:14< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: you do have a point though
20110130 20:49:33< deekay> ok
20110130 20:49:36< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: Something like Python is popular not because it's easy, but rather because its ease enables you to write more complex code in less time.
20110130 20:49:37< deekay> Trolling time over
20110130 20:49:40-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.174] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 20:49:42< deekay> Had my share of fun
20110130 20:49:46< Tomsik> Compare kd-tree implementation in C and in Haskell
20110130 20:49:49< deekay> Enjoy the rest
20110130 20:49:49< VurtualRuler98> why does noone love me ;_;c
20110130 20:49:52< grzywacz> deekay, how about wasting a few hours?
20110130 20:49:53< grzywacz> ;p
20110130 20:49:55< Aethaeryn> I can write some quick Python program to serve a useful scripting task in one sitting.
20110130 20:49:55< deekay> Ask parents.
20110130 20:49:56< VurtualRuler98> correction, why does noone love me except the boring people
20110130 20:50:01< Aethaeryn> And if you can implement it in one sitting, you're more likely to do it
20110130 20:50:11< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, read the backlog and don't argue with what we've been writing
20110130 20:50:15< grzywacz> THE answer is there.
20110130 20:50:16< grzywacz> :p
20110130 20:50:19< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: gotta earn love.
20110130 20:50:25< deekay> grzywacz:  I don't really have time...
20110130 20:50:33< grzywacz> k
20110130 20:50:44< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: yeah, though I dislike python for dynamic typing which equals lots of debugging :p
20110130 20:51:18< PetePorty> "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge")
20110130 20:51:37< VurtualRuler98> So, to sum it up, I need to: go be helpful to society, go learn to do things, go apply skills, get a job somehow, and blindly follow overused quotes.
20110130 20:51:38< VurtualRuler98> Got it.
20110130 20:51:52< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: depends on what you're doing
20110130 20:52:11< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: though thank you for not disliking it because of whitespace.
20110130 20:52:14< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: no, you need some consideration of that maybe you know and can do less than you think you can
20110130 20:52:22< Aethaeryn> It's essentially identical to any other C-like scripting language 
20110130 20:52:33< Aethaeryn> Since the indentation you have to do in Python is something you *should* be doing in other languages anyway
20110130 20:52:49< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: use whitespace is a good flamewar topic :p
20110130 20:52:59< Tomsik> use of*
20110130 20:53:05< VurtualRuler98> But, it's not that I think I can do things
20110130 20:53:08< VurtualRuler98> it's that I actually do things
20110130 20:53:18< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: like?
20110130 20:53:20< VurtualRuler98> welp
20110130 20:53:32< Tomsik> I hope you're not doing chaos magick back there
20110130 20:53:51< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: you think you can drive a jet.
20110130 20:53:54< PetePorty> Yet, you can't.
20110130 20:53:59< VurtualRuler98> you don't drive jets, francis.
20110130 20:54:10< PetePorty> "fly" on, then.
20110130 20:54:13< PetePorty> ^_^
20110130 20:54:22< VurtualRuler98> There's a gap between "fly" "and "fly well"
20110130 20:54:25< PetePorty> Go, go do it.
20110130 20:54:35< PetePorty> Ok, go do it not-so-well then.
20110130 20:54:37< VurtualRuler98> and then a third requirement of "fly without wearing the plane down too much"
20110130 20:54:38< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: "fly" is "at least land"
20110130 20:54:52< PetePorty> Go.
20110130 20:54:53< VurtualRuler98> yeah just don't ask for me to suddenly learn how to land on a carrier.
20110130 20:54:55< PetePorty> Seriously.
20110130 20:54:57< VurtualRuler98> okay brb
20110130 20:55:05< Tomsik> Go is a pretty cool game
20110130 20:55:06< VurtualRuler98> wait there's no airplane
20110130 20:55:11< Tomsik> though I pretty much suck at it
20110130 20:55:13< PetePorty> Tomsik: agreed.
20110130 20:55:16< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: My point is, you know useless stuff
20110130 20:55:25< Aethaeryn> It's like knowing how to play the acordian and then auditioning for jazz band.
20110130 20:55:28< PetePorty> You don't know stuff.
20110130 20:55:30< Aethaeryn> Not too much jazz acordian players
20110130 20:55:34< VurtualRuler98> Being able to drive a boat is useless.
20110130 20:55:42< VurtualRuler98> Being able to work various work machinery is also useless.
20110130 20:55:51< Aethaeryn> not true
20110130 20:55:52< VurtualRuler98> As is knowing how to set up a home theater system, apparently.
20110130 20:55:58< VurtualRuler98> Building a computer? uselesssss.
20110130 20:56:01< Tomsik> Various machinery, like a toaster?
20110130 20:56:06< VurtualRuler98> uh, tractors
20110130 20:56:08< Aethaeryn> A lot of stuff it's useless *if you get paid to do it*
20110130 20:56:11< VurtualRuler98> a scoopy-thing that I should know the name of-
20110130 20:56:14< Aethaeryn> you're not going to get paid to play FPS games
20110130 20:56:19< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98> As is knowing how to set up a home theater system, apparently.
20110130 20:56:19< Tomsik> <VurtualRuler98> Building a computer? uselesssss.
20110130 20:56:20< Aethaeryn> *isn't useles
20110130 20:56:22< Tomsik> Anyone can do that.
20110130 20:56:28< Aethaeryn> And yeah, anyone can 
20110130 20:56:28< VurtualRuler98> fatal1ty does man
20110130 20:56:32< Tomsik> It's like saying you can breathe
20110130 20:56:35< VurtualRuler98> excavator! hat was it!
20110130 20:56:40< Aethaeryn> Anyone who cares about tech and tries a bit can build a computer or do other basic Best Buy stuff
20110130 20:56:45< Aethaeryn> welcome to low wages at the Geek Squad
20110130 20:56:48< PetePorty> *FACEKEYBOARD*
20110130 20:56:52< VurtualRuler98> yeah but it's still useful
20110130 20:56:55< PetePorty> Ç bnhjkilopñ+ç
20110130 20:57:03< Aethaeryn> Useful only insofar as you use it to avoid costs
20110130 20:57:06< Aethaeryn> i.e. I built my computer to save money
20110130 20:57:10< Aethaeryn> and a bit to learn
20110130 20:57:14< VurtualRuler98> yeah when that's an option
20110130 20:57:15< Aethaeryn> but not useful in terms of society
20110130 20:57:28< VurtualRuler98> I must be selfless then, oh wise one?
20110130 20:57:42< Aethaeryn> Here's a protip: If you can't get paid to do X or if you get paid a terrible salary to do X, society doesn't think that skill is that useful or that skill is way too easy/common.
20110130 20:57:52< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: I feel that you're missing the point and connecting two distinct things, when you should not
20110130 20:58:22< PetePorty> Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:
20110130 20:58:23< PetePorty>    1. tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
20110130 20:58:24< VurtualRuler98> Well, I could start listing more things I can do.
20110130 20:58:31< VurtualRuler98> At some point you'll be like "well do you get paid? useless"
20110130 20:58:40< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: no, you don't have to get paid
20110130 20:58:49< Tomsik> I can operate chainsaws, but it's not like I'd do this if I don't have to
20110130 20:58:50< PetePorty> "could"  you get paid?
20110130 20:58:54-!- Haldrik [~h539152@gw-cmo.aim-net.cz] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 20:58:58< Aethaeryn> In fact, if you *could* get paid lots of money to do X, like writing a popular OS kernel, but instead do it for free, then you get even more respect
20110130 20:59:01< VurtualRuler98> so being able to work an excavator and tractor is useful then ok
20110130 20:59:02< grzywacz> Tomsik, how's your euler going? :>
20110130 20:59:06< Aethaeryn> PetePorty beat me to it
20110130 20:59:12< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: there's two things that are going on
20110130 20:59:13< VurtualRuler98> You're all philosiphers.
20110130 20:59:19< Aethaeryn> It's not necessarily that you have to be paid, it's that you have the potential to get paid for it.
20110130 20:59:21< grzywacz> I'm not.
20110130 20:59:24< Tomsik> 1. Not working, not commiting to the society
20110130 20:59:29-!- Haldrik [~h539152@gw-cmo.aim-net.cz] has quit [Client Quit]
20110130 20:59:29< VurtualRuler98> screw society
20110130 20:59:29< Tomsik> 2. Overestimation of self
20110130 20:59:34< VurtualRuler98> society created jersey shore
20110130 20:59:37< PetePorty> Oh mt...
20110130 20:59:38-!- Haldrik [~h539152@gw-cmo.aim-net.cz] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 20:59:46< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: seek professional help.
20110130 20:59:47< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Basically, you're just like a welfare bum that people like to criticize (conservatives to attack the system, liberals because they take resources from those who need it)
20110130 20:59:47< Tomsik> grzywacz: not really doing it this semester, not enough time for freetime thinking :p
20110130 20:59:52< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: except you have fortunate parents.
20110130 20:59:54< grzywacz> Tomsik, k :D
20110130 21:00:05< Tomsik> grzywacz: like, I picked three too many courses :p
20110130 21:00:08< VurtualRuler98> It's like if the hobo repaired the street he lived on.
20110130 21:00:13< Aethaeryn> Given that the vast majority of people work for a living or work hard at school in order to one day work for a living...
20110130 21:00:16< grzywacz> Tomsik, I know the pain. Have fun :D
20110130 21:00:25< Aethaeryn> You don't get respect points by doing nothing.
20110130 21:00:28< VurtualRuler98> and then there's no street repair guy.
20110130 21:00:30< Aethaeryn> You are free to do it.
20110130 21:00:32< Tomsik> grzywacz: the semester is ending, hopefully ;]
20110130 21:00:40< Aethaeryn> You are prefectly free to not contribute to society.
20110130 21:00:41< grzywacz> Tomsik, I believe in you :D
20110130 21:00:46< Aethaeryn> Just don't expect the respect of society if you do not contribute.
20110130 21:00:51< VurtualRuler98> so although the hobo is being unfashionable, the street is rather nice, and the people who use the street are happy about that.
20110130 21:01:06< PetePorty> THat'd be an awesome hobo.
20110130 21:01:11< VurtualRuler98> I am that hobo.
20110130 21:01:18< PetePorty> No you're not.
20110130 21:01:25< PetePorty> Did you fix the street?
20110130 21:01:33< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: How are you better than Paris Hilton?
20110130 21:01:33< VurtualRuler98> The street being things in this house.
20110130 21:01:34< VurtualRuler98> And yes.
20110130 21:01:37< Aethaeryn> She actually contributes to society.
20110130 21:01:42< Aethaeryn> More than you.
20110130 21:01:51< PetePorty> Agreed.
20110130 21:01:56< PetePorty> Also, she makes money.
20110130 21:01:56< grzywacz> Aethaeryn, you have to consider his contribution to our amusement.
20110130 21:02:05< Aethaeryn> grzywacz: Paris Hilton amuses more people
20110130 21:02:06< VurtualRuler98> I'm a pop culture icon in a small subsection of the internet, having sparked a revolution against a tyrannical hiearchy where abuse was tolerated?
20110130 21:02:11< grzywacz> Aethaeryn, but not me!
20110130 21:02:17< Aethaeryn> And she contributes her name to certain things (perfume, clothing, etc.) which helps people sell stuff
20110130 21:02:32< Aethaeryn> grzywacz: from a strictly utilitarian standpoint, though, Paris Hilton provides more utility to society.
20110130 21:02:35< grzywacz> That's outside of my definition of being useful, but whatever. :-)
20110130 21:02:49< Aethaeryn> She also employs bloggers
20110130 21:02:51< VurtualRuler98> Insert argument here where I point out that Paris Hilton being a celebrity and helping sell useless things is detrimental to society.
20110130 21:03:00< Aethaeryn> Can people devote their blogs to VurtualRuler98?
20110130 21:03:11< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: I'm arguing as a utilitarian.
20110130 21:03:17< Aethaeryn> While yes, she doesn't contribute much...
20110130 21:03:17< VurtualRuler98> They have before.
20110130 21:03:20< Aethaeryn> She still contributes more than you.
20110130 21:03:23< VurtualRuler98> Oh oh oh yeah
20110130 21:03:32< VurtualRuler98> I started that panic shelter thing too.
20110130 21:03:38< VurtualRuler98> what happened to that? I think the other guy ran off.
20110130 21:04:18< PetePorty> Isn't it sad that Paris Hilton contributes a thousand times more to the society than yourself?
20110130 21:04:19< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: where are you that celebrity? Some mod's forum? ;]
20110130 21:04:33< VurtualRuler98> no no a few IRC networks.
20110130 21:04:45< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: which ones?
20110130 21:05:09-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 21:05:17< PetePorty> I'll join 10 random channels of each of them and ask if they know you.
20110130 21:05:26< Tomsik> irc.furries.net
20110130 21:05:35< VurtualRuler98> if there's an irc.furries.net...
20110130 21:05:36< PetePorty> I bet they won't.
20110130 21:05:39< VurtualRuler98> I've been missing out.
20110130 21:05:45< PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: really, which ones?
20110130 21:05:51< PetePorty> Do tell.
20110130 21:06:07< VurtualRuler98> ...about missing out on a furry irc network?
20110130 21:06:14-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20110130 21:06:21< PetePorty> [17:04:34] <VurtualRuler98> no no a few IRC networks.
20110130 21:06:21< PetePorty> [17:04:43] <PetePorty> VurtualRuler98: which ones?
20110130 21:06:34< VurtualRuler98> Actually, technically you can ask around on random channels on most any network, and someone will know a vurtual.
20110130 21:06:37< Aethaeryn> There are some #furry chans that are big
20110130 21:06:42< Aethaeryn> But I don't think they have their own network
20110130 21:06:47< VurtualRuler98> I remember when espernet's #minecraft got in a tussle over me getting banned
20110130 21:06:52< Aethaeryn> :o
20110130 21:06:55< grzywacz> OMG! Serious!
20110130 21:07:04< Aethaeryn> EsperNet is one of those networks that did/does have an active #furry
20110130 21:07:07< Aethaeryn> So you must be a furry, VurtualRuler98 
20110130 21:07:10< VurtualRuler98> plus any tiny IRC network I visit remembers me.
20110130 21:07:16< grzywacz> On the ban list?
20110130 21:07:17< VurtualRuler98> Aethaeryn, oh my
20110130 21:07:18< grzywacz> :p
20110130 21:07:18< PetePorty> Dear lord..
20110130 21:07:20< VurtualRuler98> is there a cure?
20110130 21:07:28< PetePorty> This is...
20110130 21:07:34< PetePorty> This guy is so full of himself.
20110130 21:07:51< Tomsik> I think he's playing a game of troll with us.
20110130 21:07:55< VurtualRuler98> and I still see crysis in everything.
20110130 21:07:59< grzywacz> Tomsik, surely.
20110130 21:08:07< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: I used to be active in NationStates and then CyberNations which both used EsperNet for a time (CN later migrated to Coldfront)
20110130 21:08:12< Aethaeryn> so yeah, I know EsperNet
20110130 21:08:27< PetePorty> He's like sheldon form the big bang theory, only not useful and not funny.
20110130 21:08:31< VurtualRuler98> post-#minecraft espernet aka realm of 1000 horrors?
20110130 21:08:38< VurtualRuler98> I'm playing a game of "stop asking me questions so I can listen to Katamari on The Rocks in peace" actually.
20110130 21:08:38< Aethaeryn> Well, no
20110130 21:08:40< VurtualRuler98> I'm losing, apparently.
20110130 21:08:44< Aethaeryn> Minecraft saved EsperNet
20110130 21:08:50< Aethaeryn> CN moved away and NS either moved away or died
20110130 21:08:54< VurtualRuler98> #help isn't for minecraft help, kids.
20110130 21:09:14< Aethaeryn> I, for one, wouldn't have ever really returned to EsperNet without minecraft
20110130 21:09:34< PetePorty> Aethaeryn: it's such a crappy game...
20110130 21:09:36< PetePorty> >.<
20110130 21:09:43< VurtualRuler98> I, for one, want to get away from it, except getting people to chill out on another IRC network instead never works out.
20110130 21:09:48< PetePorty> Aethaeryn: Can I join your server every now and then?
20110130 21:10:18< Aethaeryn> PetePorty: my minecraft server?
20110130 21:10:23< PetePorty> Yer.
20110130 21:10:26< Aethaeryn> I'm on hold until Bukkit launches.
20110130 21:10:29-!- phlaem [~a@g231233057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 21:10:31< PetePorty> Ok.
20110130 21:10:33< Aethaeryn> I don't want to use a temporary stopgap solution
20110130 21:10:35< VurtualRuler98> bukkit?
20110130 21:10:45< Aethaeryn> Or an unstable buggy pre-alpha that breaks its own plugins every other day
20110130 21:10:50< VurtualRuler98> plugins?
20110130 21:10:55< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: server mods
20110130 21:10:56< VurtualRuler98> Minecraft does not have plugins.
20110130 21:10:59< Aethaeryn> Every MP server uses server mods
20110130 21:10:59< VurtualRuler98> You, sir, are a casual.
20110130 21:11:00< PetePorty> I'll go troll battlekid then..
20110130 21:11:10< VurtualRuler98> back in my day, they didn't exist
20110130 21:11:12< Aethaeryn> vanilla Minecraft servers get griefed way easily.
20110130 21:11:14< VurtualRuler98> And the game was better
20110130 21:11:21< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: No, they existed as long as alpha has existed
20110130 21:11:24< Aethaeryn> way back in August they were there
20110130 21:11:26< VurtualRuler98> alpha?
20110130 21:11:27< Aethaeryn> As soon as alpha MP
20110130 21:11:30< VurtualRuler98> Older than alpha times, boy.
20110130 21:11:41< VurtualRuler98> It held together fine, even when you were the biggest MP server on the whole list, at the top, we kept it going.
20110130 21:11:43< grzywacz> RESPECT FOR THAT!
20110130 21:11:45< grzywacz> :D
20110130 21:11:52< Aethaeryn> the problem is the big server mod...
20110130 21:11:55< VurtualRuler98> Then the guy running it was like "lol wat I shut it down"
20110130 21:11:56< Aethaeryn> the person stopped making it
20110130 21:12:00< Aethaeryn> and the replacement still isn't ready yet
20110130 21:12:10< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: SMP is much easier to grief
20110130 21:12:19< Aethaeryn> and Notch basically has neglected the server administration stuff
20110130 21:12:19< PetePorty> I  got to the biggest classic server before it was big.
20110130 21:12:20< VurtualRuler98> you can't bounce around and change into other people, Aethaeryn
20110130 21:12:24< VurtualRuler98> or become hard-unbannable.
20110130 21:12:33< Aethaeryn> so, really, you need a mod for SMP
20110130 21:12:37< VurtualRuler98> Meanwhile everyone's a crotchety nam vet about that oceanbuild going down.
20110130 21:12:49< VurtualRuler98> Listen, you kids. SMP now is casually easy to administrate.
20110130 21:12:55< VurtualRuler98> You didn't have to skip sleep to keep the serve in shape.
20110130 21:12:55< PetePorty> lolno
20110130 21:13:28< VurtualRuler98> People couldn't make themselves completely unbannable, or assume other peoples' identities and get them banned.
20110130 21:13:34< VurtualRuler98> er, could
20110130 21:13:43< VurtualRuler98> er, reword as "they can't now" and move along
20110130 21:13:53< Tomsik> <VurtualRuler98> Listen, you kids.
20110130 21:13:57< VurtualRuler98> ...I'm just gonna go back to my katamari okay?
20110130 21:13:59< Tomsik> That made my day.
20110130 21:14:04< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, OK!
20110130 21:14:20< VurtualRuler98> "you kids" is perfectly applicable when you have the ever-so-important "I played this game slightly longer" elitism.
20110130 21:14:22< Tomsik> What's a katamari?
20110130 21:14:31< VurtualRuler98> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwyfeksaeG8 this.
20110130 21:14:34< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: I played wesnoth longer than thee!
20110130 21:14:46< Tomsik> OMG EPENIS SO BIG
20110130 21:14:59< VurtualRuler98> the king of all cosmos went binge drinking and destroyed the stars
20110130 21:15:10< VurtualRuler98> now you have to take a tiny sticky ball and roll up objects to make new stars.
20110130 21:15:19< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, katamari is waiting.
20110130 21:15:30< VurtualRuler98> the music is playing right now sir
20110130 21:15:33< VurtualRuler98> I can feel it.
20110130 21:15:43< VurtualRuler98> I can feel the cosmos.
20110130 21:16:02< ancestral> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpI5uI6bMm0&feature=related
20110130 21:16:12< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: less drugs
20110130 21:16:19< ancestral> If you're looking for trippy videos, that's the one
20110130 21:16:25< VurtualRuler98> I didn't even include the "moooooooooooo!" in the proper quote.
20110130 21:16:49< Tomsik> Oh oh, like I know what irrelevant internet distraction you are quoting.
20110130 21:16:59< VurtualRuler98> I JUST LINKED IT
20110130 21:17:12< Tomsik> Not like youtube, it video, it has sound, me not like
20110130 21:17:15< VurtualRuler98> and anc linked more of it!
20110130 21:17:22< ancestral> No you linked a different one
20110130 21:17:25< ancestral> No video
20110130 21:17:29< VurtualRuler98> "naaaaaanananana katamari damashii" x20 or so
20110130 21:17:52< Tomsik> loituma at least had a flashless site
20110130 21:17:56< VurtualRuler98> pretend that being sung, and then add copious amounts of diabetes, and you have katamari.
20110130 21:18:05< VurtualRuler98> What's wrong with flash huh?
20110130 21:18:58-!- rork [~quassel@ip4da9d28f.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 21:19:06< Tomsik> Well, not counting that it is responsible of all annoying ads in the internet
20110130 21:19:16< Tomsik> and it's a resource-hog
20110130 21:19:22< VurtualRuler98> adblock, I choose you
20110130 21:19:26< Tomsik> and generally makes world a bad place, like PHP
20110130 21:19:27< VurtualRuler98> Also, youtube supports non-flash video.
20110130 21:19:36< VurtualRuler98> HTML5 and whatnot
20110130 21:19:44< Tomsik> not hip enough for that
20110130 21:20:05< ancestral> Flash is completely proprietary and is a resource and battery hog
20110130 21:20:13< Tomsik> Damn though, I should apt-get dist-upgrade.
20110130 21:20:14< VurtualRuler98> yeah man down with the system
20110130 21:20:20< VurtualRuler98> DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING
20110130 21:20:32< ancestral> You can get flash blocker plugins for web browsers
20110130 21:20:42< Tomsik> Well
20110130 21:20:48< Tomsik> I just turned off the plugin.
20110130 21:21:07< Tomsik> Also, no flash for 64 bits, as a side not.
20110130 21:21:08< Tomsik> note*
20110130 21:21:18< VurtualRuler98> hmm
20110130 21:21:26< VurtualRuler98> html5-tube doesn't support this katamari video
20110130 21:22:23< Tomsik> .gifs were good enough ten years ago, for most of videos on youtube
20110130 21:22:44< VurtualRuler98> yeah but this is a song
20110130 21:22:54< VurtualRuler98> gifs are a bit quiet for me.
20110130 21:23:54< Tomsik> Meh
20110130 21:24:45< grzywacz> Watch the music, listen to the color!
20110130 21:26:12< VurtualRuler98> Smell the 3D.
20110130 21:26:50< VurtualRuler98> wait, what's the free software definition of a hacker again?
20110130 21:27:07< Tomsik> It's a guy who makes good software and fixes the existing
20110130 21:27:13< VurtualRuler98> uh
20110130 21:27:18< VurtualRuler98> I thought a hacker was a person who tinkered with things
20110130 21:27:23< Tomsik> Like people who make 20 line patches to linux kernel that make them 10 times more responsive
20110130 21:27:26< grzywacz> That's the old meaning, yes
20110130 21:27:45< VurtualRuler98> I like the old meaning better.
20110130 21:28:10< Tomsik> Well, old meaning is useless now
20110130 21:28:13< VurtualRuler98> Wellllp
20110130 21:28:20< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_%28free_and_open_source_software%29 :P
20110130 21:28:21< VurtualRuler98> I'll keep using it, and thus make it popular again.
20110130 21:28:32< VurtualRuler98> As opposed to "guy who patches things"
20110130 21:28:33< Tomsik> with all the crowds and not just real enthusiasts having the access to computers
20110130 21:29:12< VurtualRuler98> Because apparently being able to mess with something is a rare ability
20110130 21:29:22< VurtualRuler98> Along with googling things.
20110130 21:29:24< Tomsik> Not really, everyone messes with stuff
20110130 21:29:55< VurtualRuler98> My mother enjoys staring at something and doing nothing when it doesn't work.
20110130 21:30:05< Tomsik> Because they're older generation
20110130 21:30:10< VurtualRuler98> Or the ever-so-common "aaa it isn't working, scream and walk away" which even people now do.
20110130 21:30:14< Tomsik> Now everyone messes with things
20110130 21:30:43< VurtualRuler98> If everyone could mess with things, I'd be out of a pretend job.
20110130 21:30:54< Tomsik> Dude, I'm not sure who you talking to on daily basis, but I even ethnography majors I talk to mess with computers
20110130 21:31:12< VurtualRuler98> Rural America.
20110130 21:31:22< VurtualRuler98> Or people I know in Canada.
20110130 21:31:24< Tomsik> Well, they mess with guns or something, are they gun hackers?
20110130 21:31:30< VurtualRuler98> no
20110130 21:31:35< VurtualRuler98> they literally give up when anything breaks
20110130 21:31:41< Aethaeryn> One math problem left.
20110130 21:31:42< VurtualRuler98> unless there's an "expert", who will mess with it.
20110130 21:31:47< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Just curious, have you been multitasking too?
20110130 21:31:50< VurtualRuler98> people who play animal crossing also exhibit durpitis.
20110130 21:31:57< Aethaeryn> For instance, I just chat on IRC the whole time I do math
20110130 21:31:59< VurtualRuler98> Aethaeryn yeah I'm also reading tvtropes
20110130 21:32:02< Aethaeryn> Helps me break up the tedious
20110130 21:32:02 * grzywacz tries to figoure out how to arrange a tree for effective exponentiation without looking it up
20110130 21:32:03< VurtualRuler98> and talking more.
20110130 21:32:12< Aethaeryn> eh, I pretty much finished TV tropes
20110130 21:32:17< Aethaeryn> read all the articles related to things I looked up
20110130 21:32:29< VurtualRuler98> You never finish TVtropes.
20110130 21:32:34< VurtualRuler98> EVERY GAME YOU PLAY WILL HAVE A PAGE
20110130 21:32:38< Aethaeryn> when it gets to the point where I can no longer get trapped in 50 links because I've either read that or am not interested in that...
20110130 21:32:40< VurtualRuler98> every idea you have can be found
20110130 21:32:41< Aethaeryn> then TV tropes has lost
20110130 21:32:52< VurtualRuler98> you have just lost, you just don't know it yet
20110130 21:32:55< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: yeah, but if you're using TV tropes right, you should be able to spot the tropes
20110130 21:32:55< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, FYI, the number of existing games is finite.
20110130 21:32:59< Aethaeryn> without having to look them up
20110130 21:33:09< Aethaeryn> i.e. you don't need TV tropes to tell you what the tropes are
20110130 21:33:10< VurtualRuler98> But then you can't read the funny
20110130 21:33:15< Aethaeryn> most of them are either obvious or stupid
20110130 21:33:16< Aethaeryn> the tropes
20110130 21:33:16< VurtualRuler98> You don't read it to know the tropes
20110130 21:33:20< VurtualRuler98> You read it because it's interesting.
20110130 21:33:22< Aethaeryn> Right
20110130 21:33:24< Aethaeryn> the trope pages are
20110130 21:33:26< Aethaeryn> not the game pages
20110130 21:33:36< VurtualRuler98> The pages about something also.
20110130 21:33:41< Aethaeryn> the game pages lead you to the trope pages
20110130 21:33:58< Aethaeryn> once you've read all the interesting tropes in whatever genres you tend to do, and there's a finite amount of them, then you don't get stuck in a million links when you look at a page
20110130 21:34:12< VurtualRuler98> Seeing group insight on something, and associated jokes about them, is entertaining forever.
20110130 21:34:21< VurtualRuler98> I know about anime I've never even seeeeen.
20110130 21:34:30< Aethaeryn> So?
20110130 21:34:42< Aethaeryn> There's learning for the sake of learning, and then there's just learning that wastes time.
20110130 21:34:50< Aethaeryn> Teach yourself another programming language or something.
20110130 21:35:02< Aethaeryn> You're acting just like I act during breaks, except all year
20110130 21:35:06< VurtualRuler98> But I'm having fuuun.
20110130 21:35:10< VurtualRuler98> endless party
20110130 21:35:18< Aethaeryn> By the end of a long break, I practically *beg* for college to come back around
20110130 21:35:29< Aethaeryn> You can only do X so much before it gets boring.
20110130 21:35:47< Aethaeryn> It's called building a tolerance.
20110130 21:36:00< VurtualRuler98> I don't.
20110130 21:36:03< VurtualRuler98> I'm addicted to knowing things.
20110130 21:36:30< Aethaeryn> The amount of information in the world increases far more rapidly than the amount of time it would take to learn it.
20110130 21:36:37< Aethaeryn> You have to be very discriminating about what you want to learn.
20110130 21:37:03< VurtualRuler98> Why?
20110130 21:37:06< Aethaeryn> TV tropes or reddit or IRC or whatever is fine when you're interrupting work, because otherwise you'll burn out
20110130 21:37:09< VurtualRuler98> I read quickly.
20110130 21:37:09< Aethaeryn> it's slowing down
20110130 21:37:12< Aethaeryn> but when you're interrupting fun with fun...
20110130 21:37:15< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: what do you know, if you're addicted to knowing things? ;]
20110130 21:37:20< ancestral> VurtualRuler98: Some knowledge is far more valuable than others
20110130 21:37:22< VurtualRuler98> tvtropes
20110130 21:37:28< ancestral> Of course, "valuable" is subjective
20110130 21:37:31< VurtualRuler98> Also, I've gotten really good at that pretend personality thing.
20110130 21:37:39< Tomsik> OMG HUXLEY STRIKES BACK
20110130 21:37:40< VurtualRuler98> I love that thing.
20110130 21:37:52< Tomsik> You're the sign of Huxley being right.
20110130 21:38:09< VurtualRuler98> no, no that's my one thing.
20110130 21:38:13< Tomsik> You need not censor information, you just drown it in sea of irrelevance.
20110130 21:38:16< Aethaeryn> Information increases exponentially. Your ability to learn and process information at best increases linearly. 
20110130 21:38:16< VurtualRuler98> My one specific thing that I practice.
20110130 21:38:28< Aethaeryn> In other words, if you don't discriminate about what information you want to learn...
20110130 21:38:30< VurtualRuler98> Is acting like I fit in somewhere.
20110130 21:38:36< Aethaeryn> You're going to learn a very pittiful amount of it regardless
20110130 21:38:50< Aethaeryn> There's just too many time-waster websites.
20110130 21:38:52< ancestral> Aethaeryn: I would say it's not so important the knowledge you gain
20110130 21:39:08< ancestral> But the application of the knowledge that is more important
20110130 21:39:14< Aethaeryn> ancestral: I think the point is that the goal of gaining knowledge is futile.
20110130 21:39:21< VurtualRuler98> I apply tvtropes to impersonate people who don't even exist
20110130 21:39:23< VurtualRuler98> is that application
20110130 21:39:23< Aethaeryn> Because your ignorance increases faster than your knowledge does.
20110130 21:39:36< ancestral> Aethaeryn: Do something with the knowledge, otherwise, what's the point?
20110130 21:39:39< Aethaeryn> In other words, by mere quality of information, there's more things being produced that you are unaware of than there is time to learn it.
20110130 21:39:45< VurtualRuler98> THE WORLD IS ALL HORRIBLE WE MUST PESSIMISM
20110130 21:39:49< Aethaeryn> *by mere quantity
20110130 21:39:52< ancestral> Everyone [can] has a legacy
20110130 21:39:52< VurtualRuler98> crawling in my skin, etc
20110130 21:40:04< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: you're not getting it
20110130 21:40:05< ancestral> So make one
20110130 21:40:16< Tomsik> It's not pessimism
20110130 21:40:23< VurtualRuler98> The first thing I get is that at my current course, I am good at many things.
20110130 21:40:26< Tomsik> It's utilization of your own mind
20110130 21:40:28< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Pessimism is necessary. Gloom and fear is necessary. Realization of mortality and the finite amount of hours we have on Earth is necessary.
20110130 21:40:29< VurtualRuler98> The second thing is, that I am always in a good mood.
20110130 21:40:42< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: what you're good at?
20110130 21:40:42< VurtualRuler98> The third thing is, nobody else is, and they're always being different.
20110130 21:40:43< ancestral> Desolation and despair
20110130 21:40:43< Aethaeryn> Because once you're out of the depression, you realize you're out of the ignorance.
20110130 21:40:44< VurtualRuler98> UGH I'LL GET THE LIIIST
20110130 21:40:54< ancestral> http://www.despair.com/
20110130 21:41:09< VurtualRuler98> Ignorance is bliss I guess?
20110130 21:41:16< Aethaeryn> Sometimes it takes overcoming adversity, facing mortality, etc., to realize you need to do something with your life.
20110130 21:41:26< Tomsik> Ignorance is bliss until somebody rapes you in the ass
20110130 21:41:41< Tomsik> and they will
20110130 21:41:44< Aethaeryn> Ignorance is bliss, but the longer you're ignorant, the more it'll hurt when you wake up.
20110130 21:41:45< VurtualRuler98> right
20110130 21:41:49< ancestral> Nice
20110130 21:41:53< ancestral> Lose your own adventure
20110130 21:41:54< VurtualRuler98> I'm ignorant apparently.
20110130 21:41:58< VurtualRuler98> The ignorance of self-confidence.
20110130 21:41:58< Aethaeryn> Yes, you are.
20110130 21:42:01< Aethaeryn> no.
20110130 21:42:01< ancestral> In the classic font too
20110130 21:42:08< Aethaeryn> You simply haven't had an existential crisis yet.
20110130 21:42:10< ancestral> That's attention to detail
20110130 21:42:12< Gambit> So I guess we should nuke #wesnoth-offtopic ?
20110130 21:42:14< VurtualRuler98> I have before.
20110130 21:42:18< grzywacz> Gambit, yes
20110130 21:42:22< Tomsik> No ass-rapist can resist a butthole ignorant of his existence.
20110130 21:42:24< Aethaeryn> Well, if you have then you've retreated from it.
20110130 21:42:44< VurtualRuler98> I've had points where I realized how reality is crumbling, and how everything's not going to ever be nice
20110130 21:42:46< grzywacz> Gambit, it's so rare for this channel to liven up anyway...
20110130 21:42:49< ancestral> Aethaeryn: "You're the best person for the job. But you've got one problem - you're a woman!"
20110130 21:42:55< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: You are an *AMERICAN*
20110130 21:43:00< Aethaeryn> Americans overcome!
20110130 21:43:02< ancestral> Lose Your Own Adventure #2
20110130 21:43:02< Gambit> grzywacz: Yes indeed.
20110130 21:43:11< Aethaeryn> Americans say, "hey the world sucks, it's a terrible place, but I'll do something about it!"
20110130 21:43:19< grzywacz> O_O;
20110130 21:43:22< VurtualRuler98> Then there's the thing where technically, I can do nothing, and humanity will naturally progress and continue eternally.
20110130 21:43:31< VurtualRuler98> And thus any net positive action will amount to good.
20110130 21:43:40< Tomsik> Lolno
20110130 21:43:45< Aethaeryn> Humanity can easily regress.
20110130 21:43:51< Aethaeryn> Very easily.
20110130 21:43:52< ancestral> When all is said and done
20110130 21:43:53< VurtualRuler98> when have we?
20110130 21:43:54< grzywacz> Surely not eternally.
20110130 21:43:57< ancestral> Everyone dies
20110130 21:43:58< Tomsik> You're just facing a cognitive dissonance
20110130 21:44:04< deekay> When I read you, I think we regress.
20110130 21:44:10< VurtualRuler98> you're worse than the psychologists
20110130 21:44:16< ancestral> But why not make our stay here a pleasant one?
20110130 21:44:16< Tomsik> You face the fact that you suck and the fact that you don't like it
20110130 21:44:16< VurtualRuler98> "YOU MUST HAVE A PROBLEM, YOU'RE HAPPY"
20110130 21:44:22< grzywacz> lol
20110130 21:44:22< VurtualRuler98> I don't suck.
20110130 21:44:26< VurtualRuler98> I consciously worked away from suck.
20110130 21:44:28< Tomsik> Two of them can  not be at the same time
20110130 21:44:32< Tomsik> So you cross one out
20110130 21:44:37< Tomsik> Instead of working to improve
20110130 21:44:46< deekay> That is only your opinion. ;]
20110130 21:45:02< VurtualRuler98> I have worked myself far above being generic and boring.
20110130 21:45:29< VurtualRuler98> So I can be happy, and enjoy it, and no amount of neo-nazis or solipists or people who use bad Christian logic will ever change that.
20110130 21:45:31< grzywacz> In your opinion only.
20110130 21:45:32< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: by being a self-claimed nobody-heard-of internet celebrity on a channel on a network that doesn't even exist?
20110130 21:45:49< VurtualRuler98> Except you guys don't have a more-plausible explination, so you just have the really bad one.
20110130 21:45:59< Tomsik> You're generic
20110130 21:46:04< Tomsik> Typical assburger
20110130 21:46:16< deekay> Average troll.
20110130 21:46:17< VurtualRuler98> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuys
20110130 21:46:59< grzywacz> So?
20110130 21:47:02< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: You're just like my roommate
20110130 21:47:09< Aethaeryn> Who failed out freshman year because he didn't attend class at all
20110130 21:47:15< Aethaeryn> Spent the whole time on the computer.
20110130 21:47:22< VurtualRuler98> No, no, when I go to do something, I do it right.
20110130 21:47:22< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: sounds like you, yeah
20110130 21:47:23< Aethaeryn> He had a happy zone, but it's an illusory happy zone.
20110130 21:47:37< Aethaeryn> He didn't care about doing anything because he was content with the way things were.
20110130 21:47:38< Tomsik> except I just seen "annoying"
20110130 21:47:44< Aethaeryn> Sometimes, you *need* to be unsatisfied
20110130 21:47:46< Aethaeryn> To want more.
20110130 21:47:53< Aethaeryn> Or else you'll just want things to always be the same.
20110130 21:47:57< Aethaeryn> And you won't know what you're missing.
20110130 21:48:13< Tomsik> If you're not going forwards, you're going backwards, says the old chinese proverb
20110130 21:48:19< VurtualRuler98> "You see, we went to college for a semester, our professor enlightened us"
20110130 21:48:21< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: Amen.
20110130 21:48:23< VurtualRuler98> Mei Ling what are you doing here
20110130 21:48:31< Aethaeryn> Doing nothing = backward progres because you're missing opportunities
20110130 21:48:31< Gambit> That's not true. I could be napping for a little bit.
20110130 21:48:47< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: lol, you read it too
20110130 21:48:52< Tomsik> I mean, reddit?
20110130 21:48:59< VurtualRuler98> South Park.
20110130 21:49:08< VurtualRuler98> "die, hippie, die"
20110130 21:49:10< Gambit> Aethaeryn: But if I don't know about those opportunities I won't care.
20110130 21:49:12< Tomsik> Yeah, yeah, seen it
20110130 21:49:19< VurtualRuler98> Except reverse-weed, which makes you less happy.
20110130 21:49:22< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Yes, but you live in a non-real world.
20110130 21:49:32< Aethaeryn> An illusion.
20110130 21:49:38< VurtualRuler98> you know that thing about the matrix
20110130 21:49:39< Aethaeryn> You'd be like those people in the Matrix.
20110130 21:49:49< VurtualRuler98> where they effectively destroyed the ultimate simulation?
20110130 21:49:51< Aethaeryn> Neo would've been happier if he just took the other pill and kept doing his job.
20110130 21:49:56< Aethaeryn> And he wouldn't have died either.
20110130 21:50:03< Tomsik> Everyone dies.
20110130 21:50:04< VurtualRuler98> Where they could live ideal lives in a post-apocalyptic wasteland?
20110130 21:50:04< Aethaeryn> But he wouldn't have fulfilled his destiny.
20110130 21:50:07< Aethaeryn> He's the One.
20110130 21:50:08< Gambit> Yeah but what is being alive?
20110130 21:50:09< VurtualRuler98> screw dying I have science.
20110130 21:50:20< VurtualRuler98> and also counter-stupid-philosiphy
20110130 21:50:27< Tomsik> Screw you, I have my second law of thermodynamics.
20110130 21:50:28< Gambit> I'd be perfectly happy being tricked into thinking my world was real when I was actually in a perfect computer simulation.
20110130 21:50:29< deekay> They are going to make 2 more movies with Matrix theme so don;t kill him off yet. ;p
20110130 21:50:32< Gambit> Because I wouldn't know.
20110130 21:50:39< Tomsik> Everyone dies.
20110130 21:50:41< VurtualRuler98> I'd prefer to learn to neo-manipulate the world
20110130 21:50:45< VurtualRuler98> and then just screw around with it
20110130 21:50:51< VurtualRuler98> Tomsik, what?
20110130 21:51:01< Tomsik> Second law of thermodynamics. Everyone dies.
20110130 21:51:04< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: what about I N C E P T I O N?
20110130 21:51:11< Gambit> Honestly I don't understand why the alien robots went to so much trouble.
20110130 21:51:12< Aethaeryn> The world they made for themselves, it wasn't real!
20110130 21:51:14< VurtualRuler98> That law doesn't work that way.
20110130 21:51:14< Gambit> Why not put them all in a coma?
20110130 21:51:20< Aethaeryn> But Mal didn't want to leave!
20110130 21:51:25< VurtualRuler98> That's about interacting states.
20110130 21:51:29< VurtualRuler98> Not a single self state.
20110130 21:51:30< Aethaeryn> So then she kills herself and trains and stuff!
20110130 21:51:39< VurtualRuler98> That'd be like having a 6oz cup of water and a 4oz cup
20110130 21:51:39< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: How does it not?
20110130 21:51:41< Aethaeryn> And a bunch of guns get fired!
20110130 21:51:43< VurtualRuler98> and they become 5oz
20110130 21:51:53< Tomsik> Equilibrium will be established.
20110130 21:52:11< Aethaeryn> But unfortunately, all good things come to an end.
20110130 21:52:16< VurtualRuler98> And in this case, it'd be more likely that you're implying that when humanity gains colonization
20110130 21:52:23< VurtualRuler98> we will evenly populate every planet we can reach.
20110130 21:52:34< grzywacz> Depending on your definition of "we">
20110130 21:52:42< VurtualRuler98> humens.
20110130 21:52:43< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: They'll die.
20110130 21:52:47< Aethaeryn> But then the Replicants revolt on the colonies.
20110130 21:52:48< Tomsik> When their stars burn out.
20110130 21:52:49< VurtualRuler98> Yeah, but they make children.
20110130 21:52:49< grzywacz> I doubt it will be humans.
20110130 21:52:51< VurtualRuler98> Which then make children.
20110130 21:52:57< Aethaeryn> And you need blade runners to kill the replicants that make it to Earth
20110130 21:52:57< Tomsik> Also, that's a lie.
20110130 21:52:58< grzywacz> As in, our biological children of the future.
20110130 21:52:59< Aethaeryn> oh sorry, retire them
20110130 21:53:01< Tomsik> We won't ever reach stars.
20110130 21:53:03< VurtualRuler98> Which create self-sustaining colonies
20110130 21:53:08< Tomsik> They're too far, there's no FTL.
20110130 21:53:19< VurtualRuler98> okay listen
20110130 21:53:25< VurtualRuler98> we're on opposite sides of the planet
20110130 21:53:33< grzywacz> VurtualRuler98, no, apes are not going to colonize the galaxy ;-)
20110130 21:53:36< deekay> I'm thankful for that.
20110130 21:53:37< VurtualRuler98> communicating in real time, and we have umlimited free information access
20110130 21:53:44< grzywacz> Not real time.
20110130 21:53:47< grzywacz> Not unlimited.
20110130 21:53:51< Tomsik> We're communicating with 200 ms lag
20110130 21:54:05< Tomsik> and have unlimited access to limited information
20110130 21:54:06< VurtualRuler98> Actually, 0 seconds.
20110130 21:54:10< grzywacz> lol
20110130 21:54:11< deekay> 0.2
20110130 21:54:14< VurtualRuler98> Apparently.
20110130 21:54:30< Tomsik> Yeah, it's like this insta-feeling about dying brother
20110130 21:54:53< VurtualRuler98> Then you use this to prevent them from dying.
20110130 21:54:58< Tomsik> Nope.
20110130 21:55:04< deekay> Not with such lag.
20110130 21:55:04< VurtualRuler98> casuality.
20110130 21:55:08< Tomsik> Relativity doesn't work that way.
20110130 21:55:14< VurtualRuler98> Jokes do, however.
20110130 21:55:21< Tomsik> You can't cheat the universe
20110130 21:55:29< Tomsik> You can cheat your ancestors
20110130 21:55:37< Tomsik> You can even cheat yourself
20110130 21:55:44< Tomsik> But you can't and won't cheat the universe
20110130 21:55:58 * grzywacz eats some yoghurt
20110130 21:56:01< Tomsik> It's like, stop right here, you won't solve halting problem.
20110130 21:56:08< Gambit> I can travel at the momentum of light.
20110130 21:56:09< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: The aim of life isn't pleasure, though.
20110130 21:56:10< VurtualRuler98> I'll build a NEW UNIVERSE.
20110130 21:56:17< Gambit> Even faster :o
20110130 21:56:23< VurtualRuler98> yes it is
20110130 21:56:24< Aethaeryn> If the aim of life is pleasure, everyone should drop everything and pick up heroin
20110130 21:56:29< VurtualRuler98> I'm not going to be dreary like the rest of you
20110130 21:56:31< Tomsik> No you won't, you've watched too much assburger anime.
20110130 21:56:32< grzywacz> Gambit, the speed of life is the speed of things happening.
20110130 21:56:34< VurtualRuler98> I'm going outside and having fun!
20110130 21:56:35< grzywacz> *light
20110130 21:56:36< grzywacz> lol
20110130 21:56:36< deekay> Build? Maybe with LEGO.
20110130 21:56:39 * grzywacz facepalms
20110130 21:56:42< VurtualRuler98> Tomsik dislikes anime because it is anime eh
20110130 21:56:45< VurtualRuler98> well then, you sir
20110130 21:56:46< Aethaeryn> Maybe there is an aim of happiness, but it's a different, deeper kind of happiness.
20110130 21:56:47< VurtualRuler98> are uncool
20110130 21:56:52< Gambit> grzywacz: k?
20110130 21:56:55< VurtualRuler98> The first law of life is that it finds a way. Jurassic Park taught me that.
20110130 21:57:02< VurtualRuler98> Second law is dude I feel trippy.
20110130 21:57:08< Aethaeryn> Perhaps we should, as Aristotle suggested, aim for a life of scholarly contemplation
20110130 21:57:10< Gambit> But what does that have to to do with my wagon with a flashlight strapped to the back?
20110130 21:57:20< Aethaeryn> Or as some utilitarians suggested certain kinds of higher, intellectual pleasures.
20110130 21:57:34< VurtualRuler98> Or maybe we're just not complete jerks.
20110130 21:57:38< VurtualRuler98> And there is no absurd inner meaning?
20110130 21:57:46< Tomsik> I derive my pleasure of trolling people on irc, sometimes
20110130 21:57:46< Aethaeryn> THERE IS A MEANING TO LIFE
20110130 21:57:50< Aethaeryn> YES THERE IS
20110130 21:57:54< Aethaeryn> :-P
20110130 21:57:57< VurtualRuler98> YEAH IT'S LIKE
20110130 21:57:59< VurtualRuler98> WE EAT CHEETOS
20110130 21:58:04< grzywacz> There is none, but you can choose your own meaning and have fun. ;-)
20110130 21:58:05< deekay> You eat.
20110130 21:58:07< VurtualRuler98> Humanity's sole goal was to invent mountain dew and cheetos.
20110130 21:58:07< Tomsik> No, that's what lions do
20110130 21:58:13< Tomsik> you're not a lion, you don't each cheetah
20110130 21:58:19< VurtualRuler98> Have I chosen wisely?
20110130 21:58:29< VurtualRuler98> Lions don't eat cheetahs either.
20110130 21:58:33< Tomsik> They do
20110130 21:58:42< Tomsik> Little baby cheetahs
20110130 21:58:51< Tomsik> om nom nom, not fast enough
20110130 21:58:56< Tomsik> mommy not strong enough to protect
20110130 21:59:03< VurtualRuler98> I am humen
20110130 21:59:05< VurtualRuler98> I eat the lion
20110130 21:59:09< Tomsik> No you don't
20110130 21:59:15< Tomsik> You eat cheezburgers
20110130 21:59:15< VurtualRuler98> Actually, no, shoot all of them, but only carry back 19 pounds.
20110130 21:59:21< VurtualRuler98> actually I eat like
20110130 21:59:26< VurtualRuler98> pizza or something
20110130 21:59:56< Tomsik> You can't shoot all lions
20110130 22:00:12< VurtualRuler98> Bigger gun.
20110130 22:00:18< VurtualRuler98> And if that don't work, use more gun.
20110130 22:00:46< Tomsik> Who will protect you when you're asleep?
20110130 22:00:51< Tomsik> Why won't they eat you then?
20110130 22:01:23< deekay> Because that's lion he talks about: http://www.sachalin.pl/images/Nestle%20Lion%2043g_640x480.JPG
20110130 22:01:29< VurtualRuler98> sentry gun
20110130 22:01:42< Tomsik> You play games, it's like that text when mines in penumbra are loading
20110130 22:01:48< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: there's no sentry guns in reality, sorry
20110130 22:01:53< VurtualRuler98> No, there are.
20110130 22:01:55< Tomsik> When you open that first grate
20110130 22:01:58< VurtualRuler98> Aircraft carriers have them.
20110130 22:02:09< VurtualRuler98> There are also an array of home-made sentries.
20110130 22:02:15< Tomsik> They're radar- and man- aimed
20110130 22:02:26< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: I think you're getting schizo now
20110130 22:02:38< Tomsik> Like, working for CIA making sentry guns in your toolshed
20110130 22:02:44< Gambit> yes there's a real life sentry gun
20110130 22:02:50< VurtualRuler98> many
20110130 22:03:05< Gambit> Tomsik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy1Ryxe44m0
20110130 22:03:07< VurtualRuler98> grabbing videos NOPE WAIT FLASH IS THE DEMONS
20110130 22:03:27< VurtualRuler98> There's also the shooty kind.
20110130 22:03:56< Tomsik> Computers can't tell you from a lion, sir
20110130 22:04:16< Gambit> okay take some facial recognition software
20110130 22:04:19< Gambit> rig it to a camera
20110130 22:04:20< VurtualRuler98> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGRBjCrnjhs more gun
20110130 22:04:26< Gambit> and a switch that triggers a knex rubber band gun
20110130 22:04:34< VurtualRuler98> or an assault rifle.
20110130 22:04:49< Gambit> No thanks.
20110130 22:05:16< Tomsik> lol, did you watch the "action" part VurtualRuler98 ?
20110130 22:05:29< Tomsik> It just waits for something to move and then goes BANG BANG in all directions
20110130 22:05:50< Tomsik> Sorry, can't hit a lion
20110130 22:05:51< Gambit> Civilians with real guns is the most retarded concept.
20110130 22:06:06< VurtualRuler98> Tomsik, that's just one sentry gun.
20110130 22:06:13< Tomsik> Also, you don't have that kind of gun and computer knowledge
20110130 22:06:14< deekay> lolerskate
20110130 22:06:15< Tomsik> to build this
20110130 22:06:22< VurtualRuler98> just get the plans on google.
20110130 22:06:24< VurtualRuler98> sheesh
20110130 22:06:25< Tomsik> You're in the savannah
20110130 22:06:27< VurtualRuler98> The ones on aircraft carriers shoot down missiles.
20110130 22:06:34< VurtualRuler98> I use my computer to get help.
20110130 22:06:35< Tomsik> lions circle you, it's night
20110130 22:06:42< Tomsik> sixth night without sleep
20110130 22:06:44< VurtualRuler98> use anti-lion siren
20110130 22:06:55< Gambit> There are no lions.
20110130 22:06:57< VurtualRuler98> Which has obviously been prepared since I've been out here six days
20110130 22:06:59< Gambit> And my house is spider proof.
20110130 22:07:00< Tomsik> Anti-lion siren too lout, you not sleep another night
20110130 22:07:08< Tomsik> loud*
20110130 22:07:09< VurtualRuler98> Just... turn it off when they go away.
20110130 22:07:15< VurtualRuler98> then go sleep somewhere.
20110130 22:07:15< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: what will you do when your parents die of old age?
20110130 22:07:22< Tomsik> You sleep somewhere, without siren
20110130 22:07:23< grzywacz> Seppukku.
20110130 22:07:24< Aethaeryn> Inherit all their money and continue?
20110130 22:07:26< VurtualRuler98> Aethaeryn, by then I'll have a job, durrrrr.
20110130 22:07:28< deekay> He will mentally collapse.
20110130 22:07:36< Tomsik> Lions eat you, you die... (more)
20110130 22:07:43< grzywacz> Tomsik, ;p
20110130 22:07:43< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: I hate to break it to you but every job requires prior work experience
20110130 22:07:44< VurtualRuler98> Tomsik, you suck at this.
20110130 22:07:46< Aethaeryn> catch-22
20110130 22:07:53< Aethaeryn> You need experience to get work and you need work to get experience.
20110130 22:07:55< VurtualRuler98> nah
20110130 22:07:57< Aethaeryn> How do you break into the job market?
20110130 22:08:06< Gambit> Burger King
20110130 22:08:07< VurtualRuler98> My brother never did that.
20110130 22:08:17< Gambit> Nor I.
20110130 22:08:17< Tomsik> VurtualRuler98: you couldn't even come up with sleeping somewhere where lions won't get you
20110130 22:08:19< Tomsik> how pathetic
20110130 22:08:20< VurtualRuler98> It's not fun if you want to push your existentialist agenda on your players.
20110130 22:08:29< Tomsik> It's obvious you had an armored vehicle
20110130 22:08:30< VurtualRuler98> Tomsik, okay really first question
20110130 22:08:38< Aethaeryn> damn it
20110130 22:08:41< VurtualRuler98> why can't I just access the satellite thingy I have
20110130 22:08:49< VurtualRuler98> and like, get a help chopper.
20110130 22:08:51< VurtualRuler98> They have those.
20110130 22:08:58< Tomsik> You have that much money?
20110130 22:08:59< deekay> Cause you're noone? SO you can't access.
20110130 22:09:06< VurtualRuler98> no
20110130 22:09:07< Aethaeryn> now I have "In the jungle the mighty jungle the lion sleeps tonight" stuck in my head
20110130 22:09:09< VurtualRuler98> phoneternet
20110130 22:09:10-!- Sirp [~user@wesnoth/developer/dave] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 22:09:11< Gambit> VurtualRuler98: Because lions can open doors.
20110130 22:09:13< Tomsik> Wow, I can't blame you for being so lazy when your parents have military choppers.
20110130 22:09:19< Gambit> The chopper will never make it in time.
20110130 22:09:25< deekay> And naval carriers, Tomsik.
20110130 22:09:31< VurtualRuler98> and a space ship.
20110130 22:09:36< VurtualRuler98> we actually live on chiron beta prime.
20110130 22:09:42< deekay> I hope so.
20110130 22:09:45< Gambit> Sirp in #wesnoth? :P
20110130 22:09:50< Aethaeryn> No wonder you're in the basement then
20110130 22:09:52< deekay> Earth would be much better place if you were.
20110130 22:09:53 * Gambit looks around
20110130 22:09:56< Aethaeryn> One of the only safe spots on that colony is underground imo
20110130 22:10:05< Aethaeryn> You definitely don't want to be anywhere near the surface after nightfall
20110130 22:10:06< Tomsik> and a straightjacket
20110130 22:10:08< VurtualRuler98> Yeah, did you see what happened to santa?
20110130 22:10:22< Sirp> Gambit: I was told there was an interesting discussion. :)
20110130 22:10:32< Aethaeryn> :o
20110130 22:10:38< VurtualRuler98> Nope, just some guy insulting me and hating flash.
20110130 22:10:50< Gambit> Sirp: You were lied too.
20110130 22:10:54< Gambit> To too.
20110130 22:11:02< grzywacz> Sirp, irclog is your friend ;)
20110130 22:11:18< Aethaeryn> Apparently VurtualRuler98 plays games an average of 17 hours a day
20110130 22:11:19< Sirp> grzywacz: touche
20110130 22:11:20< Aethaeryn> Or something like that.
20110130 22:11:31< Tomsik> Nope, just some guy living in an illusion that sitting in a basement is cool nowadays
20110130 22:11:32< VurtualRuler98> used to actually
20110130 22:11:34< VurtualRuler98> for a while
20110130 22:11:36< grzywacz> :P
20110130 22:11:38< Gambit> Aethaeryn: That's abnormal?
20110130 22:11:39< VurtualRuler98> then I ran out of games!
20110130 22:11:41< Tomsik> And that he has a military chopper.
20110130 22:11:50< VurtualRuler98> search and rescue guys!
20110130 22:11:51< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Most people play for about 10 hours, then sleep or work the rest ;-)
20110130 22:11:53< VurtualRuler98> Public funding!
20110130 22:12:11< Gambit> Aethaeryn: But IRL has rules, and objectives, and even a jail that won't give you $200
20110130 22:12:32< Aethaeryn> oh, school is a game if you see it that way
20110130 22:12:34< Aethaeryn> it even has achievements
20110130 22:12:41< Aethaeryn> And points
20110130 22:12:42< ancestral> Only one life k
20110130 22:12:48-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 22:12:49< VurtualRuler98> No, school sucks.
20110130 22:12:54< Gambit> ancestral: Yeah it's a hard game. :(
20110130 22:12:56< VurtualRuler98> Then again getting a head start on algebra sorta made school boring.
20110130 22:13:02< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: school sucks, university rocks
20110130 22:13:02< VurtualRuler98> "Yes, but I already know this" "This too."
20110130 22:13:18< Aethaeryn> There's a big difference between the K-12 babysitting and actual classes.
20110130 22:13:25< ancestral> http://www.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/gamespotting/071103minusworld/1.html
20110130 22:13:28< Tomsik> Algebra, more liek arithmetic
20110130 22:13:48< Gambit> ancestral: In a way... video games can be your Second Life
20110130 22:13:48< Tomsik> Algebra is 'bout sigma algebras of all kinds
20110130 22:13:59< Gambit> (yes it was all leading up to that pun)
20110130 22:14:01< Gambit> (I'm sorry)
20110130 22:14:07-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20110130 22:14:13< ancestral> Wow
20110130 22:14:21< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: here you go... what's ∫(1/x)dx ?
20110130 22:14:37< Tomsik> Integrating is so passe
20110130 22:14:53< ancestral> It's a bunch of characters typed into a computer
20110130 22:14:57< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: you have to start somewhere.
20110130 22:15:04< Gambit> ooh ooh I think I learned this monday. 1/2x^2
20110130 22:15:07 * VurtualRuler98 stares at it
20110130 22:15:10< Aethaeryn> Gambit: nope
20110130 22:15:14< Tomsik> I'd start with a classical logic and set theory course
20110130 22:15:15< Gambit> aww :(
20110130 22:15:17< Gambit> oh one over x
20110130 22:15:20< grzywacz> ln|x| + C :P
20110130 22:15:24< Aethaeryn> Gambit: yeah
20110130 22:15:29< Aethaeryn> grzywacz: you're right
20110130 22:15:34< Aethaeryn> Gambit: you don't get it
20110130 22:15:37< ancestral> I was right too
20110130 22:15:39< Gambit> I wondered why you bothered writing the 1
20110130 22:15:43 * VurtualRuler98 stares more
20110130 22:15:49 * VurtualRuler98 crickets
20110130 22:15:57< Aethaeryn> ancestral: you're a postmodernist Apple worker. There is no right and wrong for you, ergo you cannot be right.
20110130 22:16:00< VurtualRuler98> Oh right, I have that googl ething.
20110130 22:16:03< Tomsik> Crickets are considered a snack in many countries.
20110130 22:16:08< grzywacz> fail ;)
20110130 22:16:11< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: fail
20110130 22:16:16< Aethaeryn> wolfram alpha is what you use for this stuff
20110130 22:16:17< shadowmaster> exactly what's going on and why is this here and not in the offtopic channel
20110130 22:16:17< Aethaeryn> not google
20110130 22:16:33< Tomsik> Oh no, nazimaster is back
20110130 22:16:35< grzywacz> Aethaeryn, for this stuff, but not for 1/x over x, ffs ;-)
20110130 22:16:36< Tomsik> :<
20110130 22:16:43< Gambit> Oh my.
20110130 22:16:59< VurtualRuler98> you know guys
20110130 22:17:02< Aethaeryn> Well, I guess you could copy and paste the past four hours of here into the #wesnoth-offtopic logs
20110130 22:17:06< Aethaeryn> and we can pretend we were there
20110130 22:17:11< VurtualRuler98> or move the windows around
20110130 22:18:07< ancestral> Or just rename the logs
20110130 22:18:28< Tomsik> Or just pretend it never happened.
20110130 22:18:35< shadowmaster> The log is a lie.
20110130 22:18:56< Gambit> Merge your buffers.
20110130 22:19:10< Aethaeryn> Pretend it's log(x) where x is a negative number?
20110130 22:19:25< grzywacz> Ignorieren und weiter machen
20110130 22:19:54< Tomsik> ∫_-inf^+inf e^(-x^2) = ?!?!/!
20110130 22:21:22-!- Mussious [~kamil@dfh181.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth
20110130 22:21:37< Aethaeryn> Who would've ever thought that you could kill a 4+ hour IRC conversation with an integral?
20110130 22:21:50< Aethaeryn> An indefinite integral.
20110130 22:21:55< Tomsik> The ones you don't expect
20110130 22:21:59< Gambit> It's not dead clearly.
20110130 22:22:08< Tomsik> I hope you know who you know who you don't expect
20110130 22:22:14< VurtualRuler98> I'm playing creepy videos to people over VOIP
20110130 22:23:06< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: so what did you do in college before your gaming binge?
20110130 22:24:21< VurtualRuler98> nothing apparently
20110130 22:24:58< Aethaeryn> No, I mean, like, your major and stuff.
20110130 22:25:12< Tomsik> Aethaeryn: he's from 1998, didn't you notice
20110130 22:25:14< deekay> Soldier, level 67
20110130 22:25:30< Tomsik> or maybe 1898, who knows
20110130 22:25:39< Aethaeryn> Tomsik: so he graduated (high school/college?) in 98, was born in 98, or what?
20110130 22:25:49< VurtualRuler98> half-life came out in 1998.
20110130 22:25:55< Aethaeryn> If he finished college by the age of 12, then yeah...
20110130 22:25:59< Tomsik> What's half-life of half-life?
20110130 22:26:01< Aethaeryn> I'd probably also be on a one-year gaming binge
20110130 22:26:12< VurtualRuler98> quarter-life: halfway to destruction.
20110130 22:26:16< VurtualRuler98> Also, it's the highest 2-digit number available without being cliche like 99
20110130 22:26:26< Tomsik> Why'd you use a number
20110130 22:26:33< Tomsik> It's so 90ties
20110130 22:26:40< VurtualRuler98> yeah back in the 90s.
20110130 22:26:45< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: Do you know how to find the half-life of an element?
20110130 22:26:45< VurtualRuler98> late 90s. I was late.
20110130 22:26:49< VurtualRuler98> no
20110130 22:26:52< VurtualRuler98> but I know how to play half-life.
20110130 22:26:54< Aethaeryn> Let's say we start with 98 grams.
20110130 22:27:03< VurtualRuler98> WAIT UNTIL IT BECOMES HALF AS MUCH
20110130 22:27:09< VurtualRuler98> and die of old age.
20110130 22:27:13< Aethaeryn> WITH A STOPWATCH MIRITE
20110130 22:27:16< VurtualRuler98> It makes the name contain both capitals, non-capitals, and nmbers.
20110130 22:27:44< Tomsik> How do you measure height of a room with a stoper and an electric thermometer?
20110130 22:27:51< VurtualRuler98> I can also shorten it a lot, and it conveniently contains lots of dirty phrases/words/slang, and sci-fi references.
20110130 22:27:51< Tomsik> stopwatch, I mean
20110130 22:27:59< Aethaeryn> How do you even cross a room?
20110130 22:28:17< VurtualRuler98> cross halfway, cross another halfway, and now you're 3/4 there
20110130 22:28:20< Aethaeryn> < VurtualRuler98> It makes the name contain both capitals, non-capitals, and nmbers. <- that's what you want in a strong password
20110130 22:28:24< VurtualRuler98> repeat until you're within 12 inches, which is enough for anyone.
20110130 22:28:33< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: No, you cross a room half way, and then half the gap to that, then half the gap to that.
20110130 22:28:39< Aethaeryn> You keep crossing half and half and half
20110130 22:28:42< VurtualRuler98> yeah, exactly
20110130 22:28:46< Aethaeryn> so you go half the way then another half the way etc.
20110130 22:28:46< VurtualRuler98> then you're within a few inches
20110130 22:28:49< VurtualRuler98> which is good enough
20110130 22:28:51< Aethaeryn> So can you touch the wall?
20110130 22:29:00< Aethaeryn> You keep going half
20110130 22:29:09< VurtualRuler98> yeah or your girlfriend
20110130 22:29:14< VurtualRuler98> why is she the wall?
20110130 22:29:21< Aethaeryn> Can you touch your girlfiend?
20110130 22:29:24< VurtualRuler98> yep.
20110130 22:29:26< Aethaeryn> You walk half the distance to her.
20110130 22:29:27< VurtualRuler98> in a strong password I'd have it garbley and unreadable and encrypted and magical.
20110130 22:29:29< Aethaeryn> Then again half the distance.
20110130 22:29:33< Aethaeryn> And you keep going half the distance.
20110130 22:29:36< VurtualRuler98> Yeah but distance is an int.
20110130 22:29:37< Aethaeryn> Will you ever touch her?
20110130 22:29:44< VurtualRuler98> And, when it comes to girlfriend, a looong int.
20110130 22:29:54< VurtualRuler98> My arms can reach a few feet though.
20110130 22:29:57< Tomsik> Int?
20110130 22:30:04< VurtualRuler98> intelligence obviously
20110130 22:30:23< VurtualRuler98> at some point you end up quietly inching millionths of inches and nobody should be doing that
20110130 22:30:23< Tomsik> How quantized your universe is, I am thoroughly entertained.
20110130 22:30:38< ancestral> Int3r or Int8e?
20110130 22:30:39< VurtualRuler98> we must have long intelligences and strengths as data
20110130 22:30:40< Aethaeryn> 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 + ... = 1
20110130 22:30:44< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: IT IS TRUE
20110130 22:30:47< Tomsik> So, you're girlfriend is like on mars?
20110130 22:30:57< VurtualRuler98> no, the chair in the room over.
20110130 22:30:57< ancestral> I kinda like int3r
20110130 22:31:29< Aethaeryn> VurtualRuler98: so do that.
20110130 22:31:40< Aethaeryn> Go 1/2 of the way to your girlfiend, then 1/2 of the remaining distance and so on.
20110130 22:31:40< VurtualRuler98> do... my girlfriend?
20110130 22:31:46< Aethaeryn> And as you approach infinity you'll approach your girlfriend.
20110130 22:31:56< VurtualRuler98> At some point I'll be like, really close though. and I can just climb onto the chair.
20110130 22:32:19< Aethaeryn> Well, I did try to use a wall at first.
20110130 22:32:25< Aethaeryn> but apparently girlfiend is the only example that sticks
20110130 22:32:32< VurtualRuler98> because women are hot
20110130 22:32:38< VurtualRuler98> especially with other women, because arithmetic.
20110130 22:33:01< Aethaeryn> Yes, if every math problem involved women, all teenage guys might've passed high school math
20110130 22:33:07< Tomsik> You are wrong, because reductio ad absurdum.
20110130 22:34:10< VurtualRuler98> You are wrong, because amin ier fealado tura en' fealad.
20110130 22:34:39< grzywacz> Random gibberish. ;)
20110130 22:34:45< VurtualRuler98> nyet
20110130 22:34:47< deekay> http://www.sweetbrokacik.pl/Smileys/OnionHead/onion25.gif
20110130 22:34:47< Tomsik> Non sequitur, my friend.
20110130 22:34:50< VurtualRuler98> It's a proper language you should all know.
20110130 22:34:58< VurtualRuler98> it says...
20110130 22:35:03< VurtualRuler98> "I am magneto, master of magnet"
20110130 22:35:42< Tomsik> Fucking magnets, how do they work, can you tell?
20110130 22:35:52< grzywacz> deekay, jak ma zdrowko w ogole? Idziemy na kawe?
20110130 22:36:01< VurtualRuler98> I
20110130 22:36:05< VurtualRuler98> do not recognize that
20110130 22:37:01< Tomsik> What's your major?
20110130 22:37:02< VurtualRuler98> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjuWKAMAlQU
20110130 22:37:17< VurtualRuler98> Motoko Kusanagi, Tomsik.
20110130 22:37:31< Tomsik> Motomice from Mars, you say?
20110130 22:37:44< VurtualRuler98> no.
20110130 22:37:59< VurtualRuler98> ...really
20110130 22:38:04< Tomsik> So, your major is anime?
20110130 22:38:04< VurtualRuler98> I could reference anything
20110130 22:38:12< VurtualRuler98> and all you'd want to do is make another cheap shot at someone.
20110130 22:38:29< Tomsik> Not someone.
20110130 22:38:35< VurtualRuler98> You are an unbridled ball of hatred that is a self-sustaining fusion reaction of passive aggression and dogma.
20110130 22:38:42< VurtualRuler98> spiderman 2 is about you
20110130 22:38:43< Tomsik> :D
20110130 22:38:56< Tomsik> That's what I wanted to hear.
20110130 22:39:04< VurtualRuler98> Good, I spent time writing it
20110130 22:39:10< VurtualRuler98> I was like "ooh I have a silly analogy"
20110130 22:39:15< VurtualRuler98> and now I'm dizzy from not having eaten
20110130 22:39:22< Tomsik> <VurtualRuler98> You are an unbridled ball of hatred that is a self-sustaining fusion reaction of passive aggression and dogma.
20110130 22:39:24< Tomsik> I meant this
20110130 22:39:31< VurtualRuler98> Yeah.
20110130 22:39:33< Tomsik> not the spiderman
20110130 22:39:35< VurtualRuler98> I was like
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20110130 22:39:41< Tomsik> I don't know the guy
20110130 22:39:49< VurtualRuler98> "that is a good analogy to be silly with"
20110130 22:40:04< Tomsik> Anyway, I think it's getting boring.
20110130 22:40:15< VurtualRuler98> I stopped seeing Crysis though!
20110130 22:40:29< Tomsik> what crisis?
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20110130 22:41:06< Tomsik> You mean Egyptians?
20110130 22:42:09< VurtualRuler98> maximum riot.
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20110130 22:57:07< gdurazo> Hi, I'm trying to make a custom multiplayer campaign, and am getting caught up on including images
20110130 22:58:00< gdurazo> anyone know what the path should be? in my [story][part], I've tried file=image.jpg, with a relative path from all the places I could think of
20110130 22:58:50< gdurazo> oh, i mean in [story][part][image] file=____ 
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20110130 23:07:01< PetePorty> gdurazo:  [story][part]background=
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20110130 23:07:22< gdurazo> PetePorty: thanks. that's what I'm trying now
20110130 23:07:28< PetePorty> NP.
20110130 23:07:34< gdurazo> still can't quite tell what to put after the equal sign though
20110130 23:07:48< PetePorty> name_of_image.png
20110130 23:08:07< PetePorty> And the image should be in the campaign folder under a folder named images, IIRC.
20110130 23:08:14< gdurazo> oh, will it know to look in my folder?
20110130 23:08:31< shadowmaster> yes
20110130 23:08:35< gdurazo> ok. i have it in add-ons/MyCampaign/images/name_of_image.jpg
20110130 23:08:44< shadowmaster> as long as you have provided a [bi nary_path] specification for its root before
20110130 23:08:57< gdurazo> ah, i didn't do that
20110130 23:09:12< shadowmaster> that's then why story.part.image wasn't working either
20110130 23:09:18< gdurazo> i'll try that, thanks
20110130 23:09:23< gdurazo> is jpg fine?
20110130 23:09:26< gdurazo> or does it need to be png
20110130 23:09:39< grzywacz> it's fine
20110130 23:09:50< shadowmaster> anything supported by SDL_image is supported by wesnoth. PNG and JPEG are preferred
20110130 23:12:55< VurtualRuler98> DDS?
20110130 23:14:09< gdurazo> yep, the [binary_path] did it, thanks
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20110130 23:26:14< Sirp> hi noy
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--- Log closed Mon Jan 31 00:00:06 2011